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[Juliet]

Have been feeling OK since I stopped the conti regime and just used gel for 14 days (built up to 1.5 pump daily). However, now taken 5 days of utrogestan (100mg vaginally) and felt fine for first few days but since yesterday been feeling really wired, physically anxious, IBS and nausea and had last night had a terrible night's sleep. I am back to how I was feeling when I started this regime last month and lasted 10 days before stopping the utrogestan in August. Is this what prog intolerance is? 


Not sure what to do as I need the prog, but another 7 days of this is making me feel even more anxious - any suggestions? And will my body adjust if I stick it out?

[Hurdity]

I go in phases when I take the utro - sometimes it affects me immediaely for the first few days and then I sort of get used to the new "how I am feeling" - which is more lethargic, foggy headed, until the withdrawal which has its own symptoms. If I'm unlucky I'll get a migraine at some point. I would try to stick it out if I were you and if you can cope, but pity you are getting nausea even when using it vaginally. Could this be the oestrogen if you have increased it recently and are you still having a strong cycle?

What I do also is to plump up the vaginal tissues for around a week before starting the Utro ( by increasing my vagfem dose ) in the vain hope that this will minimise systemic absorption. I have no idea whether this works or not or is just placebo as there is no info on it - just one of my pet ideas!

Hope you manage to hang in there Juliet....

Hurdity x

[Juliet]

Thanks Hurdity You might be right that oestrogel may also be contributing as been increasing this from 1 pump to 1.5 a day due to a return of flushes. I will try to stick with utrogestan for the full 12 days and keep a record of anxiety, sleep etc. The rest of the day went OK in the end and so hoping last night was  blip and sleep will be back to normal.

[Jeepers]

Hi

I am on 2 pumps of Oestrogel and Utrogestan 100mg orally 25 out of 28 days.  I also use Vagifem.

I've been on it for 3 months now, and have been feeling so,so much better.  However,the last few days I have been having what seem like twinges just above my pubic bone.  Not really enough to call it pain.  Does anyone else get this?  I do also get painful breasts, but not unbearable, and obviously down to the Oestrogen levels (just had a mammogram so all seems good in that department.

I'm really trying hard not to google it, as I don't want my anxiety to come back, that was the very worst thing that happened during menopause.

Would just like to know if anyone else gets this, before I start worrying

Thank you :-)

[Hurdity]

Are you post-menopausal and without periods/HRT for some time? Could be your body "waking-up" or adjusting to the new regime. Also might mean you are preparing for a bleed? I get all sorts of twinges/slight pains - and never know what they are! If it's not a pain then I wouldn't worry. If it develops to be a pain and persists then see the doc just to check all is well. Glad you are feelng so much better

Hurdity x

[foreign body]

hi,
i am 54, post-menopausal and have been on utro/estrogel for 3 years. So far so good, i have reduced the utrogestan dose to 100 mg, 7 days a month (vaginally)  due to progesterone intolerance, and upped the estrogel to two pumps a day. Despite these adjustments it seems i am not absorbing estrogen as well as i should. For the last eight months i haven't had any bleeding, my womb lining is very thin (2 mm) and recently hot flushes have returned with a vengeance. I wonder if my body has built a tolerance for estrogen and i should increase the dose.
I have always been very thin, and despite the menopause i haven't been able to gain weight, so maybe there isn't enough fat in my body to store estrogen?

[Hurdity]

Hi foreign body - it's not a question of tolerance really - not at low doses, but oestrogen levels drop quite quickly during the two years following the last period and then continue to fall slowly. It doesn't really matter about the body fat because if you are replacing it at the right dose, then systemic levels will be high enough to ensure enough oestrogen  reaches all the various target tissues (those with oestrogen receptors) so it can work its physiological "magic".

If your lining is that thin and you are not getting a bleed (despite being on a lower dose of progesterone than recommended) then as you say that does indicate that you may well not be absorbing the gel as well as you could be, especially if your hot flushes have returned. Sounds like you need to increase your dose. Are you seeing a doc regularly re your progesterone regime and can you increase the oestrogen dose and continue to ensure monitoring of the womb lining.

If the gel doesn't work for you maybe patches would be better? Amazing how diferent women are (re absorbing transdermal oestrogen) - as I know some women get much higher levels on 1 pump gel than I do on a 50 mcg patch!

Hurdity x

[foreign body]

Hurdity, thanks for your reply. I live in Asia and can buy these drugs without a prescription. My gyno supports what i am doing, but he knows very little about this regime, which is the result of my 'trial and error.' If i took more progesterone, or took it for longer, i would become unable to function, which surely defeats the purpose of being on HRT. As long as my lining is thin and my quality of life is good,
he doesn't object. He is more concerned about my smoking, as i tried everything to quit but failed. Luckily i exercise every day and have a very healthy, mainly vegetarian diet, my life is almost stress-free, my blood pressure low.
I had a pretty hectic summer, travelling through many time zones, sleeping too little due to jetlag and a more intense social and sexual life than usual. I felt good and energetic despite the lack of sleep and experience no hot flushes. As soon as i returned home from this 3 month-long holiday, the hot flushes, restlessness, brain fog, fatigue started. I will add one more estrogel pump a day and see if it helps. I too believe that my estrogen levels must have dropped

[SueLW]

Apologies in advance if I have posted in the wrong category, please just let me know it is only my second ever post.

Many thanks
K

Hello

I think you would do better to start a dedicated post of your own with a suitable title and your message inside.  This isn't really the right post to tag it onto and you won't get the responses you might with a fresh new post.  Just copy what you said and start again with a new post.

Sue

[donnacrichton]

Hi I have been back on estrogel for 12 weeks now but 8 weeks on 3 pumps. Does anyone ever notice one pump doesn't look like a full dose? This has happened 3 times now and knocks my levels to pot again. It isn't near the end of the canister. I have looked at the amount and thought that doesn't look as much as normal but put it down to being too paranoid but all 3 times my levels fluctuate and I get flushes and burning the next morning. X

[SueLW]

I've been thinking that this week. Some of my blobs don't look as big.

[donnacrichton]

I am finding that too and it is so frustrating this is the furthest I've got into using the gel. I was bad a few years ago tweaking the dose hence I never settled on it. I've checked all the information leaflet and online and haven't heard anyone having this problem. I don't know if my body will not react as much when I have been on it longer. Anybody know how to prevent this? I am priming the bottle and not waiting until it is really low before opening a new one. I go straight back into headaches sore breasts and burning as soon as I put the normal dose on again and have to wait again until it settles which takes a few weeks again x

[Juliet]

I always worry that the gel dose seems so imprecise and can look very different from day to day, but I assume it is OK as flushes are under control again and mood is better.

A quick question. I have come to the end of the 12 days of utrogestan taken vaginally, however I have only been taking 100mg as I was meant to take it for 25 out 28 days, but anxiety got out of control so went sequential to see what was what and forget the 12 day regime was 200mg. However, I only taking 1 to 1.5 pumps daily (alernating this but plan to increase to 1.5 every day), so would 12 days of 100mg be enough (not had a bleed yet)?

I am keen to see if this increasingly tetchy mood I have been experiencing this week lifts now I have stopped the utrogestan, but if it does then I am not keen on taking 200mg for 12 days next month, but worried that 100mg is not enough on sequential regime. Having said that if the techiness persists then it isn't down to utrogestan and therefore taking 200mg for 12 days shouldn't be an issue.

Been keeping detailed graph on mood and anxiety and although anxiety remains low and manageable, my mood has dipped since around day 4 of the utrogestan and been feeling really cross. It maybe I need to up the gel, but won't know until free of the utrogestan. I just want to find what works and forget about it, but have to remember i am feeling much better than I was before starting HRT and be patient.

[Hurdity]

More of the progesterone reaches the uterus where it is needed when taken vaginally and there have been small scale trials suggesting that half the oral dose may well be sufficient. That being the case it may well be fine especially as you are on a low/medium oestrogen dose. See what sort of bleed you get and have a word with your doctor so that this regime can be noted and hopefully you might be able to have a scan now and again to check that the prog is doing its job in protecting the lining. It certainly should be very efficient at doing that when used vaginally - taken orally it can ve quite variable as much is lost through digestion and metabolism by the liver before getting to the uterus.

Re the bleed - when used vaginally more of the prog is "held" in the uterus for a bit longer than when taken orally so your bleed might be a bit later. Mine comes a couple of days after the first missed dose - so if last dose was Saturday,  no dose on Sunday, probably start to bleed on Tues and full flow by Weds. We are all different though and I am long-cycle post-meno!

Re the gel - when I wrote to Besins recently they said the pump pack was calibrated to give the dose given, although there must be slight variation I would have thought depending on how hard you press - but I think it is designed to minimise variation if what they say is true.

Hurdity x

[Juliet]

Your knowledge and generosity is amazing Hurdity - thank you So I'll likely get a bleed in next couple of days and will monitor this. I am back seeing the consultant in November and can discuss the prog regime with her then and assess whether it is leading to this dip in mood and what the is the minimum I can safely take.


I know some women take the prog every other day and I am wondering if this helps with reducing prog side effects? Has anyone experienced moving from conti or 12 days sequential regime to every other day found this to be the case and if so what side effects did you have and how did they improve? Thanks.