Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: devonhil on December 14, 2013, 11:50:03 AM
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Hello,
I'm just about to start (this coming Monday) on estrogel and utragestan HRT and thought I'd start a support group thread for anyone else on the same HRT to compare and contrast and discuss any problems/positives.
I think I remember ellie66 saying she'd be up for it - anyone else?
I'm hil - aged 47 and have had peri-menopause symptoms for the last 4 years and haven't had a period since beginning of October. I'm having hot flushes and bad night sweats which have affected by sleep so I'm hoping those will be helped.
hil x
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A link is OK as long as there are no financial pointers, i.e. that 'they' aren't selling anything .......
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Excellent thanks Hil, Yes I am up for this. I started Oestrogel this week 3/4 pumps and Utrogestan from days 15-26. I am slightly distracted today as I have just collected a new cat this afternoon, we are going to call her Daisy :cat88:
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awww - love the name!
How did you decide on the number of pumps of the gel? Did the doc suggest that number or have you worked out that that's the amount which works for you by trial and error?
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Femston is 2mg of oestrogen and 3/4 pumps of oestrogel is between 2/3mg of osetrogen. I knew I could not manage with less than that as my hot flushes would come back.
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when you use more than one pump do you apply it at different times (morning and evening say), or do you just use 2+ pumps in one go?
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I am using it in one go but you split it and do morning and night.
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I have been on this for nearly 10 years, fantastic! Use one & half pumps @ night and Utro 100mg from day 15 to 26, vaginally. No nasty side effects nor symptoms :) Good luck, keep us posted.
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yay Cassie - that's great news!
Hope its the same for the rest of us.
I've just picked up my prescription. I got 4 months worth (i.e. 4 containers) but one is estrogel and the others are called estrodose. They seem to be the same thing and are made by the same company so I'm assuming they are. They didn't have the progesterone in stock yet but I suppose I don't need that for 2 weeks anyway?
Anyway, my gp was rather laid back about dosage so I thought I'd start with the recommended 2 pumps and then up it if after a month if I still have symptoms.
Ellie - did you decide on the higher 4 pump amount as that was similar to the amount with your previous hrt?
Cassie, do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions? Dont feel you have to answer :)
did you arrive at the 1 1/2 pumps by trial and error? Also, are you under any pressure to come off the treatment at all? Though, like other women on this forum I completely understand if you resist vigorously, I know I would!
With the vaginal utro do you just use the same pills that are prescribed for oral use? I'm quite interested in taking the progesterone that way too as presumably you can get away with a slightly lower dose as it's absorbed more efficiently?
Lastly, (blush) with the utro do you just 'shove it up'. I'm a bit worried that for me, after 4 children, it would just come straight back out again :oops:
The things we women talk about!
hil
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Hi yes, I also started on 2 pumps and had an oestrogen blood test a while back, my levels were in the 600's so pretty high and I had zero symptoms, so I decided to just stick to the lowest dose possible and use a plunge of the pump, plus a little curl of the next plunge and that works really well for me. I shove the Utro in @ night in bed and yes next morning you do get a bit of leakage but usually comes out with the first wee of the day :) I have been told that I can stay on until 60 so a way to go yet but would not give it up for all the tea in china @ the mo, all the best and keep us posted on your progress. And yes, same pills, whether you drink them or shove them up!
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Yes Hil I started on the 3/4 pumps as its equivalent to Femston 2/10.
Ellie
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thanks ladies!
Cassie - didn't think to use at night - makes sense to avoid the gravity effect! Will definitely give that a go as I hate swallowing pills and I've been told the utro ones are on the big side
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I cannot swallow them thats why I use them other way. I must say though, and I have mentioned this before, they give me the most frightful insomnia! I feel like I have had 3 huge Espresso Coffees and just cannot sleep, toss and turn, it started again last night, I must google and see if this is one of the more rare side effects, I just have to grin and bear it for the 12 nights, I guess as I usually sleep like a log, so annoying!
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oooh - that's interesting to know about. At least it will be past xmas before I have to take the utro bit
do you just use the utro for 12 days and not 14? Is that to give a break for bleeding to start? (Sorry, I know I'm asking sooo many questions!)
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I guess you can use them for 14 days, I was told to use from day 15 through to day 26, I guess that would mimic what would happen in the days when our bodies used to produce their own cycles, sigh!
I stop on day 26 and 5 days later a bleed arrives. Ask as much as you like, someone on this lovely forum will be able to assist.
Dont think that insomnia is a normal symptom, I am one of those that sedatives seem to have the opposite effect on :)
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Hi there - been busy for a few days - aren't we all!!
Just to say - especially to ellie - that the dosage of oestrogen in the gel cannot necessarily be equated with the dosage in a pill because of the very different mode of delivery. Also individual women will vary in the amount they absorb from the different methods, and also there is variation between women in how much they obtain from excatly the same treatment.
You can look up the average serum estradiol levels from the different methods on the web under the SPC for each product. The way the data are expressed is not always comparable though.
I would say that 4 pumps is a high starting dose - although at 47 I would want to have this! I imagine that will give you higher serum estradiol levels than 2 mg of Femoston taken orally. If you still have a cycle though and are not far into menopause you may well get quite a heavy bleed from this much extra all the time. However no harm in trying and see.
The other thing is there seems to be a bit of a one size fits all approach to Utrogestan dosage - ie no variation given for different oestrogen doses, so I wonder about that sometimes. If you use it vaginally though, for the recommended time that it gives for oral use (which is 12 days - see the information in the menu http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php ) then you are very likely to get a higher dose of progesterone, which will generally allow a higher oestrogen dose to be taken.
My bleed arrives two days after stopping but I am well post-meno being 60!
Devonhil - it's OK - I've had 4 children as well and just as Cassie says - shove it up last thing at night - and it stays up there until morning - it seems sufficient is absorbed that way. They are smaller than many cod-liver oil capsules! Do you actually live in Devon? (you may not want to say!)
Not sure what happens to dosage when you have sex though ie will get a bit diluted if you put it in afterwards - so could precipitate an earlier bleed. Never has with me though.
Cassie - they make me very tired and especially in the mornings but also disturb my sleep - mainly due to the effect on the bladder - pressure- so my tossing and turning is as I keep waking because of this and eventually need to get up for night time wee, then can't get back to sleep!
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity. I am feeling much better on the 4 pumps a day. My hot flushes have gone and my vagina dryness both were creeping back. The 2mg of Femston was not quite enough hence why I went for the 3/4 pumps of Oestrogel.
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Hi just a question to you all. I am on day 6 of estrogel with bio progesterone for 14 days. I have started on 1 pump but doctor says I can increase to 2 after 2-4 weeks. Since stopping the progesterone part, I have terrible symptoms with non-stop hot flushes, headaches, nausea etc. etc. is e estrogen still 'building' up cause it feels like his is nowhere near enough for me? But was told not to increase for 2-4'weeks?? Feels worse than it did before I started on he estrogel
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1 is very low, maybe try 1 and a half pumps and then next week 2, the standard starting dose is usually 2 plunges, so perhaps your Dr is just erring on the side of caution, but I honestly dont think that 1 plunge is gonna cut it.
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I agree one pump is very low. I would up it to two. I am on 4 and feel absolutely fab but I was on Femston 2/10 before and my menopausal symptoms where creeping back. :)
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Thank you Cassie and Ellie. I have upped it to 1 and a half and will stick at that for the next week, then move up to 2 if I need to. I should have asked him why I wasn't to increase for 2-4 weeks but I can't think straight so forgot!
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Hi
I have just switched to oestrogen and utrogestan this week. Can anybody tell me why most people see. To be using utrogestan viginslly rather than orally?
Thanks
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I cannot swallow the tabs so was most relieved to be able to use the vaginally, they also have, I believe, less side effects, as they do not bypass the liver used this way and it is also a more direct route of delivery. I may be incorrect but am sure that some of the more knowledgeable ladies on the subject, will be along soon to give advice. Its a great combo though it you are going to be on HRT.
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Thanks Cassie. That seems likely. And well done for correctly interpreting my post, despite the best attempts of auto correct to disguise the 'rude' word!! ;D
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Lol, I kind of figured thats what you were asking :)
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Hil,
How are you getting on I feel fab?
Ellie
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Hi all,
I'm not on the gel, but I'm using utrogestan 200mg and elleste solo 40mg patches. Would you say this is correct dosage as I use the utrogestan vaginally? My main concern is when I was using evorel 50 conti the second part ie the progesterone patches made me more anxious and I had headaches so I am a little apprehensive. I was reading up about progesterone and that it is a natural antidepressant and antianxiety, so I don't understand why it can have these negative effects. I'm only on 2nd utrogestan so I'm sure hormones will still be erratic!! Just need a little reassurance to give me confidence that soon I will feel 'normal'. There is some improvement though, although I'm sure that will diminish once I hit the supermarket later!!!!
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The progesterone in patches etc is synthetic whereas utrogestan is closer to our own progesterone.
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Hi Ellie,
Thanks for replying. Does that mean I shouldn't get an side effects like I did with the evorel? And how long before starting the utrogetan should it settle? I've also seen some ladies take 100mg so wondering if 200mg would be correct dose with patches.
Many thanks
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Hopefully you should not side effects or if you do fewer side effects. I am only on my second day of utrogestan 200mg. If you get side effects on 200mg you can try a 100mg. It is the kindest progesterone re side effects.
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Hi all.
Thanks for your kind advice re: upping estrogel to one and a half pumps - now feeling pretty good. Believe I will stick to this until the end of the week then go to 2. Hope you all had a good Xmas as saw bad weather was hitting the uk. Just for a change it's snowing here.
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Having had a total hysterectomy when I was 27, when it was "my turn" for the menopause, the doctor gave me Estrogel/Estrodose and I do not take progesterone. When I had my mamogramme there were 2 cysts visible, one in each breast and it was considered, due to the cancer risk, that this was the best choice of HRT but at a very low dose ........1 pump once a day, Monday - Friday. I have been following the prescribed dose for 5 years and when I saw the doctor 5 months ago I was told that as I am now 62 it's necessary to reduce the HRT and stop using it fairly soon so I have only been using it 3 times a week. However, I have never been without the hot flushes which really drain me and make me feel quite ill at times, the HRT has only reduced the number of flushes I have from around 26 per day/night to around 12 !! I wish I could be rid of the constant feeling of being over-warm .... my Husband is chilled to the bone and I am stripped down to strappy tee-shirt, cotton trousers and bare feet - the clothes are on, then off, then on again - Hubby says I am up and down like a prostitutes knickers !. I rarely feel cold and cannot abide the heater on in the car !! I would love to have been without the flushes but understand this was the best option for me. I'm looking forward to feeling like me again ...... if it ever happens that is !
Meggie
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Hi
I have been using oestrogel for about two weeks now, applying two pumps as recommended to my upper arms on the outside or my mid inner thigh.
I am sure that I am absorbing the gel differently depending on where I apply it. (My arms are mainly just skin with a bit of muscle, whilst my inner thighs would put fear into the New Zealand All Blacks). I seem to absorb the gel better on my arms than my legs.
Is this possible? And if so, does anyone know if there is another body part I can use apart from legs where there is less muscle (shins, ribs etc?). Alternatively, would it be a problem just to apply to my arms?
Thanks
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I apply the gel to my inner arm between the wrist and the elbow - not tried anywhere else !
Meggie
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Huridty, Hil just to say I seem to be getting fine with 200mg of Utrogestan no side effects at all. Its obviously synthetic progesterone I am sensitive too. I feel fab on this HRT :)
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Great news ellie! Long may it continue!!
Hurdity :)
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Hi everyone,
I would like to join your thread as I am also taking Utrogestan and Estrogel (only started 13 days ago!), so not sure what my ideal dose is yet. It is so good to read other people's experiences! I thought I would share something I found on the internet. A naturapath and registered nurse, Joseph Collins (American), recommends you only put Estrogel below the belly button due to the lymphatic system's route from the legs is different to the arms which then travels through the breasts. He claims this is much safer. He also says to apply hormones first thing in the morning to mimic the body's levels. I realise that is not good for Utrogestan if you are using it vaginally and its sedative effects but wondered what anybody's thoughts were on his recommendations, as I cannot find any other website recommending this.
Many thanks,
Julie
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:welcomemm: to the forums Julie we are a friendly supportive bunch :)
I put it on my lower arm. If you where taking it orally it would get to breasts anyway so that logic is lost on me!
I am on 4 pumps a day and 200mg Utogestan from days 15 TO 26. Its fab I feel so much better :)
I am on a higher dose as I was on Femston 2/10 for 3-4 years and my meno symptoms where coming back. Normally you start on 2 pumps a day.
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Hi Ellie,
Thank you so much! It is so great to speak to others who are in the same position and want to support and help each other!
And I have to agree that I am not sure if Joseph Collins is correct in his recommendations re the lymphatic system. I shall try and do some research on that one!
Thank you for letting me know what you take - I am going to up my intake of Estrogel tomorrow to 1 1/2 and see how I get on with that as 1 pump hasn't stopped the flushes although I do think they are slightly less. I am worried about taking 200mg Utrogestan vaginally straight off with that amount of Estrogel, so I may ask my GP to prescribe 100mg now I know you can use that internally too! (My GP wasn't sure you could as she had never prescribed it)
Thanks again, I really appreciate all the help I am getting,
Julie x
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My GP has given me a 100mg so I can decide. Using Utogestan vaginally made me slightly sore so I swallow them now :)
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Thanks Ellie,
I will be contacting my GP to do the same!! :)
Julie x
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Julie,
The 200mg are huge you can say a friends told the 100mg are smaller and easier to swallow hehehehe :) It is true.
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Hi all,
I was hoping for a bit of advice. I have been on HRT since February 2013, 7 months on Femoston 1/10 and 4 months on Femoston 2/10. I have mostly been fine but after a while I find the symptoms come back, mostly anxiety and low mood. I also get aching arms for some reason.
I e-mailed Dr. Currie a couple of months ago and she said if things didn't settle after 3 months on the 2/10 then it would probably be wise to try a transdermal route. I have an appointment with my GP on Friday morning and I was going to request a change and was considering estrogel/utrogestan. He has been really great through all my problems in the last 12 months but I was wondering if anyone had any problem getting their GP to prescribe this combination.
Also has anyone cracked their anxiety with this type of HRT. Not looking for a magic fix but just trying to find the best solution I can x
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I love this regime if we were on Femston due to PMS type symptoms, like me, due to progesterone phase of HRT then this regime is even better. I have NO PMS type symptoms now.
I do not suffer from anxiety so can't help with that question but someone knowledgeable will be along soon. Hurdity are you around?
What I can say with this Oestrogel/Utogestan regime it has a major benefit over other HRT as its so tailor the dose as lots of us are doing, with the support of our GP's and this forum.
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It did not help my anxiety at all unfortunately. I went back to a sequi regime but could not cope with the bleeds. I changed to using utrogestan all the time vaginally and it gave me bladder problems.
I ended up back on evorel conti despite my best efforts to settle on the new regime.
Honeyb
x
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I ran low on Oestrogel over the holidays and was using less than a pump, wow, what a difference, woke up with a pounding heartbeat, have been feeling depressed and sweaty, so am dashing off to fill my script for a new can, amazing what a difference cutting back has made to me, and not in a good way either! Happy New Year lovely ladies!
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juliekim - that amount of progesterone ( 200 mg) won't do you any harm - but you don't need such a high dose with a low dose of oestrogen. It will only affect you if you are progesterone intolerant and personally I don't like to take more progesterone than needed due to its sedative effects. As I think I explained on another thread the high doses are needed with the higher doses of oestrogen to prevent the womb lining from thickening or to shed it each month.
Re hormones and when to take them - some types of HRT are not taken daily and women thrive on them (ie patches), and regarding progesterone - I am sure Joseph Collins is not referring to this particular hormone which as you say, has a sedative effect and is definitely best taken in the evening (although for some women who need 200 mg and are progesterone intolerant - the other negative side effects can be minimised by taking in 100 mg doses twice a day).
Re anxiety - I haven't suffered from this (although I am a born worrier!), but all I know is that some women who are severely progesterone intolerant, any progestogen can make them feel depressed.
However most women are not progesterone intolerant, but find that the synthetic progestogens do give side effects such as depression, headaches or anxiety - and this would be made worse by taking them continuously as you are advised to when post-menopausal. For these women - taking a body-identical progesterone in the form of micronised progesterone (ie utrogestan) - is the best way to keep unpleasant side effects to a minimum - so that you may only experience the usual pms symptoms - perhaps tiredness and a bit of bloating, which is to be expected.
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity, I think I have only been worried because I have read all of Dr John Lee's books, so after only using approx 25mg of natural progesterone cream for a year (although it did not touch the hot flushes etc!!!) I have just got to get my head round taking more!! I am getting there though and plan to use it on day 16. And I have taken in what you have said about dosage in relation to amount of Estrogel used. I upped my Estrogel to 1 1/2 pumps today and am having a reasonable day with the flushes so hopefully that is a good sign!!
And re Joseph Collins - I suppose there are a lot of opinions out there, it is just trying to work out the ones that may be worth looking into.
Thanks so much for your input, I really am grateful for all the advice you have given me Hurdity.
Julie x
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Thank you hurdity. I have also sent Dr. Currie an e-mail question for her advice on my combination of issues.
I am seeing my GP tomorrow and will probably request the Estrogel/Utrogestan combination but he will have to investigate the Utrogestan dosage I think.
Thanks for your help everyone.
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Has anyone else found that they have needed to reduce their oestrogel dose when they start using Utrogestan?
I was using 2.5 pumps until I added the progesterone when I started to get some symptoms of high oestrogen levels. I have cut back to 2 pumps and have been fine. I don't sleep as well when I'm using progesterone/ progestogen though.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has found the same!
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I sleep terribly when I am on utrogestan, drives me nuts, feel so wired and like I have had a caffeine overdose, once those 12 days are over, I sleep ok again.
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Hi again Ladies
As I wrote earlier, I have been trying to reduce my Estrodose as my Specialist felt it was time to do so ...... being 62 years of age now. Unfortunately, I have been far from well, extreme tiredness (crashing fatigue syndrome), disturbed sleep and life has been 'pants', to say the least. My GP gave me mild sleeping tablets which have helped me during the night and today I have been back to the Specialist re my HRT. After explaining the struggle the last few months have been she has upped my Estrodose to 2 pumps per day (was only using 1 pump per day for 5 days) and if needed to use it at the weekends too. If I feel good on this dosage then I'll see her in 6 months and have the usual mammogramme, to make sure the cysts in my breast have not altered in any way. However, any breast discomfort then I need to go back to my old dose and make another appointment to see her. Fingers Crossed and all that.
Hope you are all coping OK
Meggie
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Hi everyone,
Just wondered how many of you are using 1 and a bit pumps of Estrogel and only 100mg Utrogestan 12 days out of 28. I started using Estrogel 4 weeks ago. and then started to use 200mg Utrogestan but after 4 nights of use I was in such a progesterone induced fog I could hardly get through the day! So as I only had 200mg, I pierced the shell and got rid of half the progesterone before using it vaginally (my doc has just agreed to give me 100mg instead!). I seem to be fine using 100mg, although still find it hard to get up in the morning and do seem more tired especially in the evening!
Although Dr Currie has said if I wanted I could use the conti regime, I thought I would like to just use it for 12 days a month for a while to see how I get on with it and wondered if other ladies using the same amount of Estrogel as me were able to just use 100mg Utrogestan and still get a shedding of the lining of the uterus. I obviously don't want to put myself at risk - I use the 12th Utro tab tonight and will see what happens! In past posts,
My hot flushes have basically stopped apart from a few warm moments! I am loathe to increase the Estrogel as I have had a reaction using it - ie jittery, racy feel and fast pulse. It has calmed down but is still there in the background (and my pulse is still higher than normal). Also I would of thought keeping the amount as low as possible is preferable.
In past posts, Hurdity as commented on the Estrogen/Progesterone ratio being correct and how low doses of Estrogen aren't particularly catered for in the current dosage recommendations.
So if anyone is on the same kind regime I would love to hear your experience of it!
Many thanks,
Julie x
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Hi Juliekim, yes I am on exactly that dosage. I take one and a half pumps per day and 100mg of Utro from day 15 through to 26. I could not handle the 200mg either, I use the tabs vaginally but it gave me terrible tinnitus and I just felt too wired on them. I get a bleed 5 days after stopping them and go for a yearly scan of my uterus, all is good, you will be fine on those, can you not get the 100mg tablets instead of having to pierce the 200mg tablets though? They are much smaller as well...
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Meggie what is Estrodose, is it the same as Oestrogel, what country is it patented under that name in, just interested :)
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Hi Cassie,
Many thanks! Its just good to know it works for others too!! My doctor has today given me a prescription for 100mg tabs, so will use them from now on! Out of interest, my Estrogel is also called Estrodose on the box, but the Pharmacist put Estrogel on his sticker! Think its French. I think I use roughly 1 1/4 pumps compared to your 1 1/2 pumps, I would just like to slight racy feel to completely go! Maybe in a few weeks it will settle. Am glad you have told me it takes 5 days for you to come on as I now wont be expecting anything until then!!
Thanks again,
Julie x
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I am 55 and use one and a half pumps of estrogel and utrogestan 25 days out of 28. I do not get a bleed on this dose but did have some spotting last year, which was scanned but showed no thickening.
Does anyone using this have trouble with their feet? Sorry seems a bit of a random question.
Lesley x
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What sort of trouble, ML, do you mean swelling, pain etc? This can be quite normal and can be caused by water retention due to the progesterone.
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Hi juliekim
Glad you are doing well now and hope the jitters settle down. I've noticed that my heart rate is still sometimes fast but at other times is low 60's, so I think we probably just need to accept it is a period of change but not harmful from everything I have read. I am on day 2 after ending progesterone and finally have a bleed - my first in 3 months so feel relieved!! As you know I am on more estrogel than you and taking 100mg of progesterone with an extra dose of compounded progesterone, so I believe you will be fine with your dosages. I felt pretty awful after I had finished the progesterone part, so please don't worry if you do too! Hurdity reassured me and I felt a little better today, but feel good again now.
Hope you continue to do well. We are both at about the same stage in our journey and I am so glad that I was brave enough to try this regime. I am sure that we will both continue to improve as time goes on and our bodies adjust.
Susan
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Hi All - hope you are progressing well.
Cassie - Different name for Estrogel is because I live in South West France.
I use 2 pumps of the gel per day, throughout the week and at weekends if I need to. It has made a difference already - Only 2 hot flushes today but I was awake in the night as I was very hot and the hot flushes are not as intense and I don't break out in a sweat. I only have gel HRT as I had a hysterectomy 35 years ago and dont need progesterone. I do hope the improvement continues.
Meggie
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Aah thx for the explanation Meggie, I dont think you suspposed to take a break from the gel, it is to be used on a continuous basis, lucky you, for not needing the dreaded progesterone side of things :)
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Hi Cassie
It seems like muscular or tendon pain in my feet and sometimes they lock making it difficult to walk, no swelling though.
Lesley x
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Hi,
Suzyq - So glad you are getting there too! I do definitely feel sooo much better than not being on bio hrt. I am actually starting to get some quality sleep again which is fantastic after 2 years of rubbish sleep! The last time I used the Utrogestan was 2 nights ago and I feel fine! And I am so grateful I can talk to all of you about this as none of my friends are on hrt!
Meno lesley - funnily enought I seem to be getting pain in my feet - well pain in the ball of one foot that did wake me last night and when I get up from sitting or out of bed my feet seem uncomfortable to walk for a while! Its very strange! I put it down to the fact I am wearing a mouth splint to realign my jaw and just thought it would be changing my neck, spine etc and effecting my feet!! But after you commented on your feet being painful, maybe it isn't. What sort of pain are you getting?
Julie x
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Hi ladies
I understand nothing about gels....can some one help me to understand please...peri use? meno use only? I take Oestrogen 2mgs daily and have a mirena.....I do so wish i could reach a balance as the Oestrogen alone made me feel great...weight gain but ok...Now Mirena of Friday last and I have dipped again ...don't get on with the combined hRT for the same dipping reasons xxx
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Hi Mrs January - the way I understand it is that Estrogen gel is used cutaneously - that is, it is spread on the skin. I use it on my inner arms as advised by the doctor. It carries much less of a risk than tablets which is the correct choice for me as I have cysts in my breast ......... but I suffer with flushes and tiredness. After a hysterectomy, (as in my case) should HRT be necessary, I understand there is no need for progesterone as it is not necessary to expel the blood and lining of the womb. Does this help ?
Cassie - I have been on a very low dose of the gel (5 days on and weekend off) because of the cysts in my breast but the flushes and tiredness were still a problem after 5 years at this dose ....... Silly me, I wish I'd told the doctor earlier that I wasn't coping too well. Not used it at all today - should have done, had a few 'hot ones' !!!
Meggie
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Hi
Mrs January I use one and a half pumps of estrogel and put it on both arms. This has been the best hrt for me - and I've tried a few. The nice thing about estrogel is you can tweak it to suit. I am post meno so use utrogestan 25 days out of 28.
Hi Julie my pain seems either muscular or tendons and can be anywhere on the foot. Some days are hard to cope with.
Lesley x
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Mrs J, in my opinion, the gel is a much kinder hrt as is the Utrogestan, it should not knock you as badly as the mirena coil, as that is more of a synthetic progesterone. One can adjust the gel dosage to suit your symptoms and you would probably do just fine on 2 doses a day which is equivalent to 1.5mg of oestrogen, a bit less than you are on now, but remember, that the transdermal route is more direct as it does not by pass the liver so you should have the same results as the pills but with less side effects. Good luck
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Hi,
Meno Lesley - you sound as though you are in a lot of pain with your feet. :( I did read another post entitled 'Foot Pain' which you have posted on too. I noticed some of the ladies also had thyroid issues. I do too so wonder if that is a link. Has your GP ordered blood tests and given you a good check over?
Julie x
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Hi Julie
Have been tested for thyroid and was ok. Do wonder though as did say to my doc that my sister has thyroid problem but it fell on deaf ears.
Thank you for replying.
Lesley x
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Hi
Just wondered if this thread is still open and if anyone can offer any advice please?
I am 46 post meno (no period since Sept 2013) and started HRT on 17 August 2014 - on Utrogestan 100mg 25 out of 28 days. Oestrogel started on 1 pump, then got awful low mood and anxiety and upped it to 2 pumps (24 September 2014) which helped after about 7 days. I use Oestrogel at night one pump on upper outer arm and one on inner thigh.
I have again got awful low mood and anxiety with crying a lot this time and have just upped dose (on consultant's advice) to 3 pumps but put the third pump on at 1pm today. Do you think this will help? Separating the doses is that advised?
Was doing 'fairly' ok until Friday last week. Have to say the Oestrogel is amazing at stopping hot flushes so far and the Utrogestan seems to help me sleep once I finally nod off.
I am convinced it is hormonal as I have used AD's in the past (and have them close if this doesn't work) as my blood tests showed low Estradiol and very low Testosterone (0.1).
Does low Oestrogen cause low mood/anxiety does anyone know?
I also wish I could get hold of some Testosterone gel as after reading a lot of stuff it is obvious it helps with this. Especially as my levels are virtually non existent.
My consultant has offered the implant but I am wary after reading info. on it and would rather to be able to control my dosage according to symptoms.
I hope this post makes sense as I am really in the middle of a very anxious time.
Sorry for waffling on, hope someone can shed some light.
CW
:)
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Sometimes I think our own hormones mess us about and that gives us an anxious week or so? I may be wrong! For me, I get more anxiety and panic attacks when my estrogen is too high. Others may find the complete opposite.
With regard to splitting your estrogel dose - I did this (I started out on estrogel) but in the end I just couldn't get a consistent dose going. As soon as I switched to estradot I was so much better - more even ...
Obvious thing is to make sure you're applying properly! I just didn't seem to absorb it well and my tests continued to show low estrogen whilst on the gel. Sorry I couldn't help more
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Hi Suzyq
Yes you are right it's got to be hormonal, especially when there is no other reason to feel like this!
The gel disappears in seconds on me, my skin must be gagging for it!
Maybe I should get my blood tested to see if the levels are getting anywhere - never thought of that! Not the sharpest knife in the drawer at the moment.
You have helped by replying thanks so much it means a lot. :)
Take care
CW
:)
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Hi curlywurly
Yes low oestrogen does cause low mood - some women have called it "the feel good hormone". Most women feel at their best during the mid point of their menstrual cycle when oestrogen is at its highest. Low oestrogen is also thought to contribute to post-natal blues and depression as well as low mood just before and at the beginning of menstural cycle.
It is sometimes difficult to get to right when administering externally (as SuzyQ points out) and also I can imagine if you took the amount needed to give levels at what is known as the "pre-ovulatory peak" = very high levels, all the time - we would feel quite odd (maybe that's what you are experiencing when levels are very high SuzyQ?), which is why HRT aims to give levels as an average over the whole cycle.
As SuzyQ says sometimes also applying gel correctly can muck things up a bit - I know the area of absorption is critical. It needs to be spread in such a way that the oestrogen is absorbed before it dries. If it dries too quickly then some of the oestrogen won't be absorbed. I have never used gel so this is just what I've read.
Like SuziQ I use Estradot and have always used this - and I find my levels are always stable.
I would find it too much of a faff to have to put it on every day - let alone three times! Also personally I would not put it on the upper body at all - none of the patches nor the other gel (Sandrena) recommend this - all say the lower half of the body.
Also maybe you weren't quite post-meno - there are some women who will continue to have a bit of a cycle more than 12 months after they've had a period - but this is the cut-off time for investigations. If this was the case for you, you might still experience hormonal fluctuations and associated mood swings. The other thing is your own oestrogen levels will continue to fall for 2 years following the last (ie final) period ie menopause - so you may well be sensitive to this fall as well and require an increased dose.
Hurdity x
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Just want to comment about Oestrogel
I used it through my peri and post meno - I had premature meno from my mid 30s. I started on one pump per day and upped it to 1.5 pumps per day at the age of 47 when I was clearly post meno.
I always put it on my inner thighs - it would dry within about 5-10 mins and then I got dressed. You are not supposed to get the area wet for at least 2 hours after application and the skin must be clean and no moisturiser should be used - so no bathing or swimming - so I assume those 2 hours are the absorption phase. I never divided the doses but I think if you use 3 or more pumps per day it is advised to use some in the morning and some in the evening.
I am about to go back on HRT so will be starting the Oestrogel soon and I will be trying the Utrogestan for the first time. I'm using Utrogestan on a long cycle first to see how I respond to this kind of progesterone and if it suits me I may move to continuous use.
I personally think the plus of Oestogel is the ability to adjust the dosage. Even the ability to use a half dose can make a difference.
Do be aware that when you get to the end of the canister the oestrogen tends to be a bit less so I always started a new one as I got to the end of the old one and used one pump from each canister to ensure of an even dose.
DG x
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Just thought I'd comment on oestrogel too. I started on 4 pumps about 5 weeks ago (2 in the morning and 2 at night) - but after a couple of weeks the symptoms of insomnia, heat, palpitations came back and so (with the approval of my consultant I increased it to 5 and now 6 pumps!) He said there was no harm in increasing the dose but to keep a detailed diary and see how I react etc. So now I use 3 pumps in the morning and 3 at night - but its only been a couple of days so not sure whether it will work! Anybody else out there on such a high dose? Also does the body plateau and only able to absorb so much I wonder?
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Hi mmbecks - like Stellajane I was wondering where in meno you are and how old you are?
Six pumps is quite a high dose and did the consultant check whether you are applying it correctly in case you are not absorbing it properly?
The omly issue with too high a dose of oestrogen (where levels are "supra-physiological" - ie higher than normally found in the body) is that some women can develop a condition known as tachyphylaxis, whereby it ceases to have an effect and symptoms recur - so not so much a plateau but a reversal of the effects. As I understand it is most likely to occur with oestrogen implants and I can't comment on whether it has been observed in high dose gel users.
Here is some information about it - relating to implants (scroll down):
http://www.studd.co.uk/implants.php
At least your consultant is asking you to monitor closely what is happening to you. As you are under the care of a consultant then I presume things like thyroid has also been tested? Are you taking progestogen at some point or have you had a hysterectomy and don't need it? Maybe if you are taking it, the consultant has also advised an increase in this to help protect the uterus?
Anyway hope you manage to reap the benefits soon without any side effects!
Hurdity x
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Wow thats a lot of gel...I have been one and a half pumps for over 10 yrs never had a days symptoms, so I feel somewhat relieved if I hear that that is not always the case...what progesterone are you using?
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I have been on Estrodose gel for 5 years and I am 63 years old. I attempted to reduce the 1 pump I was using (small dosage as I have cysts in my breasts) but flushes came back with a vengance ......15-20 evil moments per day, so the doctor 'upped' the dosage to 2 pumps (1 on each arm) per day. Now much more stable and don't consider coming off it for a while yet.
I don't need progesterone as I had a hysterectomy 36 years ago
Meggie
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Currently been using Oestrogel for the last month and using 1 pump per day. However, been experiencing spotting so is it possible the 1 pump dose is too low and my own cycle is kicking in underneath? Am peri, age 46. Not sure whether to stick it out at 1 pump or increase a bit?
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Liz - can you just remind us what you are using for progesterone? Spotting might mean the womb lining has built up too much, however, you have only started HRT quite recently and I believe in peri stage your own hormones can be having an influence on breakthrough bleeding. If your flushes are reduced and you are generally feeling good I wouldn't increase the dose of oestrogel without checking with the doc first.
If you have the Mirena then spotting for the first 3- 6 months is quite common.
DG x
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Hi DG - I'm using Utrogestan for days 15-26, been on the gel for around a month. Didn't have the bleed after I stopped the Utro, got it about a week before I used it. Perhaps it'll all settle down the next month or so?
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It does sound as though your own hormones are still having an influence. I'd just stick with what you are doing for at least 3 months and see if things settle. Dg x
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Thanks DG - really appreciate your help. Looking forward to the Multi-gyn arriving! The Fluconazole has helped but things are still a bit uncomfortable. Been reading lots of good reviews on the net about results women have had with the Multigyn preventing recurring thrush.
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Hi Hurdity - thanks for your response! I'm not sure where I am in the menopause (haven't had a period for years - but did have a mirena coil) Blood tests have shown oestrogen of less than 18 and the consultant has said that I'm definitely menopausal! All other things like thyroid are OK. I am 48. I have had terrible night sweats for 10 years (which I could cope with) but chronic insomnia this last 11 months (which I can't!) So now I'm doing the 6 pumps of oestrogel and 100g every day of Utrogestan. I still don't have great nights but at least now I don't feel so ill during the day. I will ask the consultant about tachyphylaxis - thanks! All sounds a bit scary.
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Wish I had found this post earlier. I was showing signs of low estrogen on 3 pumps and was advised to go to 4 pumps. I applied it all at once abd symptoms got worse. Someone on site suggested splitting the dose and has helped a bit. Still having tears and burning. Consultant had said i should be able to take 4 but said take it all at once which would explain why it didn't work. Git an appointment next week. I have lost the leaflet in beside the gel. Does it say in the leaflet about splitting the dose?
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Personally I think it would make sense to use 2 pumps at night and 2 in the morning if you are going to use that much. This is quite a high dose but I think some women may need it. The transdermal route like Oestrogel is far more efficient so, in theory, I think less should be needed to be effective. I'm not sure what it says in the leaflet but I believe 4 pumps would be higher than any of the other combined HRT pills.
DG x
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Hi thought i would just add my experience. I am 45 and in surgical meno as of april this year. Asked to be prescribed Utrogestan and Oestrogel, i use 2pumps day, doesnt relieve all symptoms but i have faulty BRCA2 gene and dont want to take more than that.
I actually stopped the utrogestan myself as i had hyster in may 13 but was taking it due to adonomyosis history. Happy with oestrogel.
My cousin in america has had same surgery as i had to reduce her risk ascwell and she was prescribed evamist which is very similar product but in a spray as opposed to gel.
.
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Hi
I have a question re Utrogestran - I a have used for 3 nights but hen I pop it in my vagina it stings. Is his normal?
Also before starting te Utrogestran I noticed my first wee in the morning would leave me with a sting n my vagina, could this be the start of VA?
Thanks W
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Hi after seeing my consultant I have also been put on 5 doses. I have also been given that maybe the oral contraceptive pill might be an option. Although the estrogen is synthetic it us 50 times stronger than hrt. I have ovaries shut down so producing no estrogen with Marina coil in. Just wondering how the lady who was trying 5 pumps was getting any relief x
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Hi
Having just finished my first cycle of Utrogestran thought I would give my feed back.
Took 100mg at night vaginally (like this method) for 7 nights as I found I was not sleeping well and hot/sweating so much. Day 5 and having a really heavy period, was worries as I had read this form of prog was not as strong but having such a heavy period as made me feel better.
W
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Hi - I'm 'the lady' that was using 6 pumps - which increased to about 10 pumps a day (5 in the morning and 5 at night)! The gynaecologist said this was ok. However, it still wasn't helping with my insomnia, night sweats, adrenaline surges etc. I managed to get to see the nurse practitioner at the Oxford Menopause Clinic (Janet Brockie) and she swapped me to the gel called Sandrena (which I think is stronger so you don't have to use as much of it). I apply three 1mg sachets a day (1 in the morning and 2 at night). She said there is no problem with taking high levels of the gel, it's just that in her experience there is a maximum amount the body absorbs and so there comes a point where applying more will not make any difference. The gel worked in terms of increasing the level of oestrogen but unfortunately I still suffered from adrenaline surges/palpitations and inability to sleep (at all some nights or only a couple of hours). So Janet advised that I also take an anti-depressant for the anxiety/sweats - I will take my first dose of mirtazapine tonight! I expect to feel spaced out over the next few days but have reached the point where I simply do not know what else to do. I'll let you know how I get on.
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Hi good luck hope you get some relief. Will keep a note of that gel 5 1/2 pumps but getting some relief. Anxiety improving daily palpitation also calming down. Let us know how you get on x
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Hope you don't mind me jumping in on the thread :)
I've recently joined to find out if anyone else was using as much Oestrogel daily as I was- so relieved to read that some of you are using 5/6 pumps too.
My GP is overseeing my menopause care and nearly fainted when I confessed to going up to 5 pumps, not sure what she'll do when I say 6 is barely controlling my symptoms at the moment ;D
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My consultant was fine with six but it does depend on your age as to how much natural estrogen you should have. If your unsure I found a menopause clinic more helpful x
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I've been applying gel wrongly and rubbing it in until it dries and an up to 5 pumps. The last two days I have left it to dry and anxiety and flushing through the roof tight chest. Not sure how slowly to reduce. X
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Hi donnarichton and Salad
ARe you splitting you doses into 2 in the morning and 2 at night? Are you applying it to your inner thighs, smearing over a large area from the knee up then allowing it to dry for at least 10 mins. Also the skin mustn't have any moisturiser or lotions on it or this will stop absorption.
Have you had a blood test to see what your oestrogen levels are on this high dose?
If you both are still getting so anxious and flushes etc. with such a high dose then you may be one of those ladies that really need a SSRI alongside the HRT. The gynae I saw recently recommended Citalopram as particular good for controlling flushes and anxiety and I have a work colleague who uses HRT with Citalopram and it has transformed her life. My colleague said she felt some nausea and other side effects for the first few days when she started the Citalopram but is now really happy with her regime.
DG x
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Hi DG I had started to rub in the full arm as dried instantly. Had about 2 weeks a bit better then end if last week felt symptoms slipping read on this thread about applying on inner thigh and not rub it in put on handsize then let it dry. Started noticing symptoms worse yesterday anxiety and flushing. Felt it easing off before last nights dose but applied it as usual worse this morning. I've had a bad reaction to antidepressants (made me suicidal) not willing to try again. I had noticed very painful breasts yesterday and also the severe aroused feeling I had before splitting the dose. Don't want to drop it too quick. I have phoned the consultant but usually takes him a few days to reply. It's just I'm not sure how much to reduce without causing more problems. Usually my skin is still moist after applying straight after a bath x
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I agree with Dancinggirl re the blood tests and in fact may have mentioned this on another thread? Even though they are unreliable - in your case 2 or 3 blood tests would help decide whether your dose is anywhere near sufficient and help you decide whether low oestrogen could still be the cause of your symptoms - although the blood oestrogen level at which symptoms are apparent varies from woman to woman.
Hurdity x
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I hope he agrees not sure if I am absorbing any or how much.x
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Hi just popping back and have seen these replies :)
DG - I've tried splitting the dose 2 and 2 or 3 and 1 but it didn't relieve my symptoms in the day, so the 4 is all in the morning. This gave me a good result for several months then symptoms would start to appear about 6-7 pm (joint pain, headache) and unless I added another dose before bed the pain would wake me or I'd have symptoms throughout the next day.
My levels seemed to get really out of control following surgery I had in November- new symptoms appeared - but I'm now feeling a lot better and although I've used 6 doses for the last week I will try reducing to 5 if I'm ok again tomorrow.
Initially I applied to my thighs but when the gel was still there 20 minutes later I changed to my arms- (pharmacy had also given me Oestrodose instead of the Oestrogel I prefer)
I've not suffered with anxiety nor had flushes - I suppose they could still appear!
Hurdity- my GP prefers to adjust dose depending on symptom control but I've had two blood tests one to check I was absorbing gel (level was 670) and then another to rule out tachyphylaxis (level was 370) when I went up to 5 pumps.
Thank you for replying - it really helps to hear what others have to say.
:)
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Me too have now dropped ti 21/2 morning and 2 night he thinks by symptoms my estrogen has gone far to high. Is there any problem with this or better 2 1/4 each dose?
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Hi Hurdity and all you lovely ladies
I apologise for the delay in replying to your v. helpful advice, have had a pretty rough time of it.
Back on the antidepressants (Citalopram - 10mg) after what was an awful time (was off them for 19 months and really hoped to avoid going back on them - tried everything). Pleased to say they have definitely helped with the awful gutted feeling and crying though. I am learning to take life a moment at a time. CLKD's post from a while back helped me too I screen grabbed it and it really helped!
'Of course they change your brain :bang: :bang: :bang: ....... ::) the brain is an organ very often neglected. Until depression sets in. If you are hungry, do you not eat? If you have pain, do you not take relief? For many years I fought against taking ADs because I need/ed to know what is causing my constant depression. Usually it's lack of chemicals. When I accepted that I need to take a low maintance dose FOR LIFE, I was able to move forwards.
Many things we eat/drink/imbibe - do nor not - alter our bodies/brain for ever!'
THANK YOU CLKD!!! :) :) :)
Reduced Oestrogel to 2 pumps a day and so far seem to be 'ok'. It is a faff applying the gel but I do like to know I can alter it as necessary (will keep in mind Estradot though for the future). :)
I think you may be right re: me not being completely post meno as I had a withdrawal bleed on my last Utrogestan break (I take 25 out of 28 days) - I presume this means there is still some life in this old dog yet?!
I am seeing my consultant early Feb and will ask for blood tests just to see if levels are getting better.
I have also begun Androfeme (Testosterone cream for women) as my levels were v. low. Husband has noticed 'moments' of confidence (not enough for me I want the old me back!!).
Sorry for waffling on. Thanks so much again for all the advice and help. :)
CW
:)
Hi curlywurly
Yes low oestrogen does cause low mood - some women have called it "the feel good hormone". Most women feel at their best during the mid point of their menstrual cycle when oestrogen is at its highest. Low oestrogen is also thought to contribute to post-natal blues and depression as well as low mood just before and at the beginning of menstural cycle.
It is sometimes difficult to get to right when administering externally (as SuzyQ points out) and also I can imagine if you took the amount needed to give levels at what is known as the "pre-ovulatory peak" = very high levels, all the time - we would feel quite odd (maybe that's what you are experiencing when levels are very high SuzyQ?), which is why HRT aims to give levels as an average over the whole cycle.
As SuzyQ says sometimes also applying gel correctly can muck things up a bit - I know the area of absorption is critical. It needs to be spread in such a way that the oestrogen is absorbed before it dries. If it dries too quickly then some of the oestrogen won't be absorbed. I have never used gel so this is just what I've read.
Like SuziQ I use Estradot and have always used this - and I find my levels are always stable.
I would find it too much of a faff to have to put it on every day - let alone three times! Also personally I would not put it on the upper body at all - none of the patches nor the other gel (Sandrena) recommend this - all say the lower half of the body.
Also maybe you weren't quite post-meno - there are some women who will continue to have a bit of a cycle more than 12 months after they've had a period - but this is the cut-off time for investigations. If this was the case for you, you might still experience hormonal fluctuations and associated mood swings. The other thing is your own oestrogen levels will continue to fall for 2 years following the last (ie final) period ie menopause - so you may well be sensitive to this fall as well and require an increased dose.
Hurdity x
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Hi curlywurly
Are you from Aus may I ask? Sorry I've forgotten! I am asking because I hadn't heard of androfeme so Googled it and Aus came up..... and it's not available in UK as far as I know.
Hope you are beginning to feel better...
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
My consultant recommended Androfeme 1.0% cream as he wouldn't prescribe the T. for men as he says it's too strong.
Apparently the CEO and Pharmacist, Michael Buckley had given a talk just prior to my appointment so he had the details of the product to hand.
I have since emailed Michael Buckley who is very helpful and there is a company newsletter each month too.
I ordered it direct from Testomed.com no prescription was needed. Although I have a private prescription from my consultant which I can now get at a pharmacy in London.
Not cheap but I was/am desperate to feel better so thought I would give it a try.
I am 'getting there' - thanks for asking - I hope you are well. :)
Take care
CW :)
Hi curlywurly
Are you from Aus may I ask? Sorry I've forgotten! I am asking because I hadn't heard of androfeme so Googled it and Aus came up..... and it's not available in UK as far as I know.
Hope you are beginning to feel better...
Hurdity x
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Hi been reducing estrogel as had gone too high. This week has brought some great relief and gone from 51/2 pumps to four. Was improving every day until yesterday my symptoms are showing I am high again. Tingling head and burning with jitters. How long before it could just be settling. It is out the blue when everyday was brining improvement?
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Yes I have been on those since I went to see Dr Annie 2 weeks ago - She was so brill. I felt better immediately I have to say, although I am still on citilapran for anxiety. But I still feel anxious at times when I think about my boss and the workplace.xx
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Hi SallyG - do you mean that you are on Androfemme? If so would love to hear how it makes you feel - but maybe you won't be able to distiguish between its effects and the oestrogen though if you started it all at the same time?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity - no I meant the Utrogestan/and estrogel.
I do feel better bt I seriously need to build up my physical strength.
Thank you for all of your wise posts.
Sallyxxx
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Ditto re: wise posts thanks Hurdity! :)
Re: Androfeme the website I first saw it on is http://www.lawleypharm.com.au if this is any use at all? It does have a list of things it is supposed to help with.
Early days for me yet and it is hard to say if it is working as I had to go back on anti-d's. Fingers crossed!
Thanks again
CW
:)
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Hi all,
I am starting this regime tonight and wonder if it best to use the gel and Utrogestan at the same time? Also has anyone any tips for applying the gel for best absorption.
I also notice that you have to take Utrogestan on an empty stomach. Would that include a milky bedtime drink do you think? I usually have a drink before sleeping to keep my calories up as lost alot of weight.
Sorry if these are obvious questions,
Thanks
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Hi Jedigirl
You can use the Oestrogel either morning or evening but it must be on clean dry skin without any moisturiser or having used moisturising shower gels etc. you mustn't wash the area for at least 2 hours after applying the gel - I always use a simple unscented vegetable soap when I shower for this reason. I've always applied it to my inner thighs as it's a bigger area and easier to apply - I never liked applying the gel to my upper arms as I felt it might get onto my breasts which, rightly or wrongly, I felt was not good.
The Utrogestan must be taken on an empty stomach so at least 2 hours after food. A milky drink would count as food I'm afraid so if you want a milky drink before bed you could have your supper around 7pm and take the Utrogestan around 9.30pm and then a milky drink at around 11pm before bed.
You may find your appetite improves with this regime anyway and perhaps a good snack at around 4pm and then supper at 7.30-8pm might be a better option so you can take the Utrogestan at 10-10.30pm before bed. If keeping your weight up is an issue for you then I'd try to have more small meals throughout the day. You will probably sleep better on the Utrogestan anyway - a big bowl of porridge first thing in the morning would get you off to a good start - I always think breakfast is the most important meal of the day.
If you are taking this regime continuously then you will be taking both everyday - you don't need to use at the same time so you could apply the gel in the morning if you want. If you are using this regime in a sequi regime then you will start with the Oestogel alone and then add the progesterone in about 14 days.
Good luck DG x
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Thanks DG,
I am taking the Utrogestan days 1-25 so will be using it straight away.
I try to eat regularly but teach support groups in a school so not always possible! It's the anxiety that keeps my weight down i think, it always puts me off food.
A question i never thought of, on the three days i stop taking Utrogestan I presume i keep up the Estrogel?
Thanks for the reply.
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You do not ever stop the gel, use it daily. You can also use the Utrogestan vaginally if it suits you better, just mentioning that is the way I use it, works better for me in that respect.
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Hi due to see consultant in Wednesday still having problems. Have reduced estrogel to 3 pumps and 1/2. I've been taking 2 in the morning and 1 1/2 at night. Anxiety has reduced fair bit but teary with burning shoulders.I don't understand how U was getting relief on 5 pumps then levels went so high. How long does it take dosage to get to maximum level. I have had my ovaries shut down so I have none of my own estrogen. I thought this would mean a stable dose but seem to still be fluctuating?
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Hi, I am new here although have had lots of useful advice from this website! I would be really grateful for some advice. I was on Femoston on 1/10 but had lots of migraines and was also worried about risk of blood clots, so in December I asked my doctor for estrogel and utrogestan. I am taking the utrogestan continuously as I was already on Femoston on for 4 years. The thing is that I have broken out in terrible spots! It's really depressing... also am having some mood swings. Can anyone suggest an alternative? I would prefer not to take oral estrogen but I can't live with this acne at 51! Thanks :)
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Maybe use the Utrogestan on a sequential basis - perhaps any continuous progesterone will have this effect on you. I have always found HRY makes my skin better - I did get acne with Tibolone but this type of HRT is known to give this problem.
I am 58 and I using Oestrogel/Utrogestan sequentially. DG x
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Thanks Dancinggirl - the thing is if you get migraines it's usually better to take progesterone continuously as far as I know.... Can anyone else suggest a different regime? I look awful :-\
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Hi lizziejt
:welcomemm:
I agree with Dancinggirl that maybe the progesterone is giving you acne? Although it is the least androgenic of the progestogens (ie the least like testosterone and therefore supposedly the least likely to cause male-type symptoms such as hair loss & acne), it is listed as one of the possible side effects so perhaps you are unlucky.
How long have you been on the new regime and how much oestrogel are you using? If you are having moodswings then it sounds like you are not yet at menopause because once you have had your last period, oestrogen levels graudally decline over the next couple of years but the hormone levels do not fluctuate as they did when in peri-menopause.
If that is the case then you could be better off maintaining a cycle as Dancinggirl suggests, and taking utrogestan sequentially. Oral HRT is more likely to exacerbate migraines. When did you used to get the migraines - during most of the combi phase (the second half of the cycle) or after you'd finished the progesterone phase and just before or around the time of your bleed?
It may well be that you don't get migraines at all on this regime.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity, thanks for replying. I think I used to get migraines mostly a few days before my period on the oral HRT or around the changeover to the progestogen phase. I've only been on the estrogel/utro regine for a couple of months and am using just under 2 pumps of estro with 100mg of utro. If I change to sequential would 100mg be enough do you think? If so I will definitely try this to see if my acne decreases...
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Hi all,
I'm finding this regime 1-25 days Utrogestan and 2 pumps estrogel suits me well apart from anxiety symptoms. I wake early, feel tense and headachy, have negative thoughts. It calms through the day once i get on with things but am wondering whether an extra pump of gel on an evening would help or wait a while to have longer on this regime?
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Hi lizziejt
Sorrry - haven't looked at forum since Friday - just catching up. Re Utrogestan - I cannot say whether this will be enough. It is half the licensed dose which is 200 mg - but as you probably know the dose is one size fits all so lower doses of oestrogen may well not need such a high progesterone dose.
I would ask your medical practitioner about this in your case ie gynae or GP as it is not licensed.
Hurdity x
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Hi all,
I'm finding this regime 1-25 days Utrogestan and 2 pumps estrogel suits me well apart from anxiety symptoms. I wake early, feel tense and headachy, have negative thoughts. It calms through the day once i get on with things but am wondering whether an extra pump of gel on an evening would help or wait a while to have longer on this regime?
Hi jedigirl
Sorry to hear about your morning symptoms. Does your headache clear quickly or is it persistent? I can't remember whether you experienced these (anxiety) symptoms on the other HRT and if so when in the cycle? Therefore can't say whether it is due to the progesterone - ie intolerance, or low oestrogen which will cause anxiety and low mood. As I am not a gel user I can't advise but in principle I would see what if any bleed you get on this regime before increasing the dose - and do you think your doc will be sympathetic to your increasing the dose?
Do hope you feel generally better soon :)
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity, thanks for reply, have had nasty cold so been bit off which probably explains the headaches this week. I also think I'm clenching my teeth through the night as they often go off very quickly. My teeth also seem more sensitive and on edge lately, weird!
Anxiety more settled the last few days so maybe my body settling more on the new hrt.
Thanks again x
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Hi
Really going through a tough time at the moment. I am 56 and was told I HAD to reduce my HRT as I have been on it 5 years (various HRT) I was doing well on the oestrogel 3/4 pumps a day ith separate progesterone.
I tried Everal patch 50 for 4 weeks but felt really unwell therefore I have made the decision to go back on the gel. My recent oestradiol blood test was 269 pmol/L which in my opinion is not that high.
My question is due to my age - can I still use 3/4 pumps of gel if it controls my symptoms???
I do rely on your experiences :)
W
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I am 59 and have been on and off HRt for over 20 years and my gynae said I could go up to 3 pumps per day. Your oestrogen levels are low and you are still young so your GP is wrong to insist you keep to such a low dose unless you have other health problems that prevent you using HRT.
I'd print off the latest BMS guidelines from this site and show the GP. Even beyond 60 the benefits of HRt can outweight any risks and transdermal as you are using is preferred.
Good luck Dg x
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Thanks DG - It's good to know you are a similar age and using 3 pumps of gel. I keep being told at my age (56) I should reduce. I know my own body and in my opinion at my peak of menopause having more intense symptoms. Therefore I would think more not less oestrodol is required.
When I get to 60 surly that will be the time to start reducing????
Just been into town shopping and the sweats are horrendous. I have also started to feel a bit off balance again. these were the symptoms I first got 5 years ago when I started with peri.
W
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Hi I know you ladies are on a similar regime to what Iam about to start on so can you give me any input about these levels like do they sound right ( ish )
Month one take 1mg estrogen only
Month two take 2 mg estrogen only
Month three depending on which I felt best on either 1 or 2 mg estrogen with 200mgs twice daily uterogeaston for last 12 days of said month (vaginally) .
I'm on femoston conti at present but not doing well with it ,I suspect it's the constant progesterone albeit a small dose 1/5 .
Also when I stop femoston ie. No progesterone will I have a bleed ? Thanks in advance for any help.
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Why 200mg twice a day, thats a heavy dose?
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Have no idea the specialist said that,maybe because it's 3 months ?? I see him Saturday so I will mention that it sounds high :-\
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Ye agree sounds far too high. I would think 200mg would be the recommended dose.
Good luck W
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Well it's not that high really - 200 mg orally for 12 days per 28 is the licensed dose - although the oestrogen dose that this is supposed to oppose is not given so it is a bit of a one size fits all approach. Those who are prescribed it vaginally by specialists tend to get given a lower amount if they are progesterone intolerant - but lining is monitored through regular scans.
I reckon on being able to go around twice as long without progesterone by taking it vaginally (there is a little research on this) - so I use 200 mg vaginally 12 days every 5 - 8 weeks, which means I am going just over 3 to just over 6 weeks on oestrogen only. I am on 50 mcg Estradot. 8 weeks may be pushing it a bit on this dose for me.
If you are on a 12 week cycle then you are going just over 10 weeks on oestrogen only but how much you need will depend on how much of the oestrogen is absorbed. If it's a full 3 months then that's just over 11 weeks on oestrogen only. Your gynae will want to ensure that the lining is shed and there doesn't seem to be as much research about precise doses of progesterone with different oestrogen doses especially transdermal oestrogen.
I'm sure he has his reasons - the above being likely - but if you ended up being intolerant to it then perhaps 300 mg is a possibility?
Hurdity x
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Pharmaceutically, it sounds correct, but thinking, it must be a bit of a shock to the system, a sudden overload of progesterone, wondering, out of interest sake, if taking 400mg as opposed to 200mg would make any difference on the amount of lining being shed? :-\
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Thanks for the comments/input ladies I will mention it that it seems a bit high as I said maybe he thought it better to shed the lining :-\
Forgot to say the estrogen will be taken orally as he hasn't mentioned having it in gel form maybe I will ask him about that as well. X
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Hi Warwick
I am 56 and 5 years into meno symptoms which hit me like a train all at once. Various hrts and am currently on estrogel 2 pumps and 100mg utrogestan continuously. After never getting it right and seeing just about every medical person known to man I ended up seeing Nick Panay in London. I am seeing him again in April as he is monitoring a fibroid and small cyst on my ovary.
I am also struggling at the moment - have a feeling of tight band around my head, tingling all over head and neck, feeling dizzy, dry eyes, unable to concentrate, and fed up with the whole thing really. I am concerned about increasing estrogen as may affect fibroid and cyst. Worries me a lot about hrt being stopped as not sure if I could function.
Sorry this is not very positive but I am the same age as you so may help.
Lesley x
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Hi all
I had been doing well on utrogestan days 1-25 and 2 pumps estragel then today woke feeling sick and achy in my stomach/back. Am at a loss at to why I suddenly feel rotten again after feeling good. Also feeling cold. I thought I had found an answer to this misery, silly me 😖😖 :(
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Hi Meno Lesley - we are the same age and appear to have the same symptoms. feeling dizzy off balance is one of my worse symptoms, this was also the first symptom I got going into peri at 48. I feel like I have flu, clammy but at times hot and sweaty (esp during the night)
Also - mornings have become a real nightmare after sweating during the night. I wake up with a churning stomach and feel very depressed, get better as the day goes on. My opinion is I have reached menopause with full on symptoms and I need more estogion. GP does not agree so I am looking for a good Gyne to see privately in the Northwest.
W
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Hi
Totally agree and remember a couple of years ago in the midst of changing hrt again the doctor upped my dose from 1mg to 2mg and the tight feeling in my head went straight away. I do wonder if the progesterone stops the estrogen having full effect - read somewhere about receptors being blocked. Do wonder if this will ever end??
Lesley x
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Jedigirl - don't despair you're still going to get blips - I do after 15 months of real tic calm on hrt! I still get he odd spell of 4-5 days where I feel so crappy - now though,I don't panic - I know what,it is (suspect,it's my own hormones playing,up) and just make a note to take it easy for a few days!
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Thank you Suzyq,
Have just returned from the GPs. He offered to up my anxiety meds(!) despite me saying my anxiety was under control and gave me some Lansoprozole because I said my stomach and bowels were upset. I know its hormonal but when i asked him about this he said "Yes your hormones are unbalanced but you dont want to increase estrogen because of the cancer risks" Sigh.
He did check for UTI while i was there as i had lower back rib pain but all was well. My husband who I took for support asked him while i was doing sample if i was young to be in menopause and he said " Not in the uk, no, and your wife is very lean!!"
Hubby turned to me when we left and said "Is it always like that?!"
I suspect yr right that my own hormones are wrestling with hrt.
Thanks for chat :)
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Hi jedigirl
I seem to remember that you are in peri and your periods are fairly regular - is that right?
If so the HRT isn't enough to suppress your own hormones so you are bound to get times when you don't feel right! it will stop the extreme dips, but now an again if your levels of oestrogen or progesterone rise suddenly, despite the HRT - then you could well experience side effects.
Also could it be a bug since you are feeling cold as well as sick and achey - don't be quick to blame HRT on any symptoms you might experience?!
When do you take the Utrogestan? Taking it before bed is recommended to minimise side effects.
Heavens - the docs are too free with their anxiety meds aren't they!
Hope you feel better soon!
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
Thanks for reply, yes I'm peri, suspect for a few years now. Periods before hrt(6 months or so) were mostly regular but very light. Now they barely last two days and are still light. I don't think its a bug, have felt similar to this before, always after a period .
I did suspect my own hormones are probably battling against hrt.
I do take the utrogestan at night but orally. I remember you insert yours? Im interested in this as wonder if will help avoid digestive problems as much. Do you tyhink there would be any settling in time taking this way instead?
Thank you x
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Ok ladies I'm back from specialist appointment,I got doses I told you about wrong :-\ meno head ;)
He has given me 1 mg estradiol for 3 months and on last 12 days I have a 200mg vaginal pessary to use ,so can I just ask what type of side effects I might come across and if they subside it what might you have done to help overcome these ,forewarned and all that ! Many thanks for any help / input . X
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Sorry I meant problems/ side effects from the progesterone pessary part as I 've never used them before,or anything like that ! :-\
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Hi jedigirl and dazned
Re vaginal Utrogestan. It does seem to affect me differently - sometimes it barely affects me at all. This time ( just finished a course and now on my bleed) I had morning fatigue ( more than usual) and fuzzy head from the start and 3 day migraine last weekend (could have been exacerbated by v small drink I had which doesn't seem to go well with prog and me!). Once the migraine had gone I've just felt tired. I didn't get the prog crash pmt this time either. Weird.
Tiredness is the main symptom for me, and usually increasing brain fuzziness, and the occasional migraine. Maybe I sometimes feel a bit dizzy in the morning but not sure if thatls due to the Utro or just me generally?
I usually try to make sure I increase the dose of the vaginal oestrogen ( Vagifem or Gynest ) for a week beforehand with the idea that it will prevent so much systemic absorption - this might be just in my head though!
If you are not severely prog intolerant this should be all you get - progesterone is a sedative and at high doses can have a depressive effect which some find debilitating. It doesn't have that effect on me though - just the tiredness which is fine. Nothing's perfect!! It needs to be at high doses so that enough gets to the uterus.
Vaginal utrogestan shouldn't have any effect on your digestive system beyond possible general systemic effects of progesterone as a muscle relaxant - well I wouldn't have thought so.
I'm sure others will be along with accounts of thier side effects - but really best not to worry unduly and maintain a positive outlook and just get on with it if you can!
Hurdity x
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Also I forgot that I tend to have to get up in the night to pee when I am on it, although with judicious avoidance of drinks in the evening, and coupled with my general tiredness sometimes I can sleep through. It tends to affect my bladder a bit more, generally so have to go more often in the day too.
Now and again I get irritation at verytop of labia when I'm using it ( didn't this time) so use an anti-fungal to deal with this.
None of these side effects are major for me though - apart from when I get the migraines as I hate these!
Hurdity x
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Many thanks Hurdity for your help, please keep looking occasionally as it will be a while before I start that bit so I'm sure I 'll find more question to ask ;D
X
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Hi
Have just picked up this topic, very interested as I have been using estrogel and utrogestan and have been trying several different regimes, trying to find the best, safest to suit me regarding side effects etc, I have posted asking questions on the main board a few times, and have had a good read here this morning,
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I have been thinking that instead of going 10 weeks before using 12 days utrogestron making 12 weeks in total could I take it starting on the 9 th week seem to remember the specialist saying I could put it in the month anywhere as long as I had a bleed .
Hurdity ,anyone ??
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Hi dazned - not clear what you mean? if you are saying you intend to make your cycle a bit shorter - then that's obviously a good thing re your womb lining, because it will slightly decrease the possibility of the lining over thickening and then breakthrough bleeding occurring at the "wrong" time ?? So do you mean you will make your cycle 11 weeks in total instead of 12?
It's always OK to make the cycle shorter - it's when women decide off their own bat to make it longer without proper supervision regarding progesterone dose and perhpas a scan that there could be problems.
Hurdity x
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Yes sorry if I wasnt clear :-\
Wanted to take the utrogestron 2 weeks earlier so that I only use estrogen only for 8 weeks instead of 10 weeks ,so I would then take e only for 8 weeks then 12 days e and utrogeston Irealise this would be a strange cycle but thought it would be better than going 12 weeks without bleed although specialist was happy for long cycle. I just wanted to see how I went on utrogeston as after bleed Im considering a trial without hrt. My anxiety,palps,etc have been addressed favorably now with Ads which were my worst symptoms ,my aches and joint pains have become worse despite the estrogen so was thinking to try without,I can always go back on if I am worse without.
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Anyone ?? :-\
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Hi dazned - As you are using this long cycle, starting Utrogestan earlier won't make any difference. I'm experiemtnling, using Utrogestan on different cycle lengths to try and find the best regime for me. I started with regime of 6 weeks of oestrogen only then 14 days of Utrogestan with oestrogen and so this month I'm using oestrogen only for 3 weeks and then do 12-14 days with Utrogestan. I'm trying to get a lighter bleed.
SO, If you are wanting to take a break from HRT and need to have a bleed before you finish, you could start it anytime and then stop everything after you finish the Utrogestan phase. Hope that helps DG x
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Thanks DG .I am seriously considering stopping for awhile as my aches and joint pains are much worse than when on the old hrt even on at moment estrogen and I cant see the utrogeston helping in that department. Iam 6 weeks in on e only so thought i would do just 8 weeks then start utrogeston hopefully have a bleed then see how I go without . I will still have enough estrogen and utrogeston pessary for another 3 months if decide to start it again I've been on hrt now for 6 years so I thought I'd see what the state of play was without one can only hope I might not need it and if I do badly at least I will be reminded of why I needed it in first place. Thanks again x
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dazned - I would gradually reduce the amount of oestrogen you use over the next 2-4 weeks before you stop completely so when you finish the Utrogestan you don't suddenly do a big drop. DG x
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i am so glad i came across this thread. I am 51, reached the menopause a year ago and have been trying different approaches to address low energy, low libido, insomnia and hot flashes. A doctor who specialises in bio-identical hormones put me on DHEA, testosterone cream, utrogestan, estriol cream. I felt great for about two months, my libido was unbelievable, i was almost manic due to excessive mental and physical energy, but then my skin broke out with cystic acne, the worst i ever experienced, the hot flashes and insomnia returned and i became a nervous wreck. Also, the cost of blood tests, doctor's consultation and bio-identicals was something i couldn't afford any longer, so i quit and went to see my gynecologist who prescribed Angeliq. It didn't work for me. I became depressed, the pills didn't make any difference to my symptoms, nor to my acne. So again, i quit after 3 months.
I bought some estrogel and after just one week on 2 pumps a day, i felt a lot better. I could finally sleep, no more hot flashes, my mood improved and so did my libido and skin.
When i added utrogestan i felt terrible again. No energy, depression, bad skin, foggy brain. I don't know if i am progesterone-intolerant, but this hormone certainly doesn't agree with me.
I wanted my life back, so i decided to use estrogel without taking utrogestan. I have been feeling great, even after reducing the dose to 1 pump a day. Now my question is, what are the risks involved in taking a low dose of estrogen without progesterone? i am very slim (ex-ballet dancer) work out regularly, and my body type (narrow hips, small breast) suggests i don't store much estrogen.
Thanks for your advice!
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Hi if you still have your uterous you MUST have progesterone !
It protects the lining by opposing the estrogen if you dont have it you run the risk of endometriosis cancers! Your weight doesnt bear any relevance to taking progesterone or not. If you have had hysterectomy THEN it is ok to have estrogen only.
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Hi and welcome foreign body
Where do you live? You say you bought some Oestrogel - did you get this with a prescription?
Dazned is right I'm afraid - being ultra slim doesn't mean the oestrogen won't build up in your uterus.
I'm afraid you can't use oestrogen without some progesterone or your womb lining will thicken and this will give rise to erratic and excessive bleeding and a higher possibility of womb cancer. Utrogestan is the most bio identical progesterone you can use but if you are very sensitive then even this can cause problems. You can try doing a longer cycle, so use oestrogen done for 4-6 weeks and then 12 days of utrogestan with the oestrogen so you have fewer bad phases, however at 51 you may not be deep enough into menopause to prevent problems with break through bleeding. It is important to keep the womb lining thin and a withdrawal bleed is essential to do this.
Did you take the Utrogestan continuously or on a sequential basis?
It is likely that the testosterone would have caused the acne - this is a common side effect - but Utrogestan shouldn't really give skin problems. If you are seeing your gynae privately then he/she may let you try using Utrogestan as a half dose of 100mg for 12-14 days on a long cycle(particularly as you are using such a low dose of oestrogen) but they may insist on a scan regularly to make sure your womb isn't thickening too much. You won't get this on the NHS though in you are UK based.
I hope that helps. DG x
P.S. I'm an ex dancer - now 59 - joints not great!!!!
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Hi foreign body
:welcomemm:
I agree with the others - you must take progesterone to protect your womb.
I am on a long cycle and this is endorsed by my (NHS) doc although I don't think it's in my notes. They definitely don't send you for scans but of course if you have bleeding problems you are then referred for a scan. However it could be too late at this point because changes may already occur before you get breakthrough bleeding from an over-thickened lining.
I presume from your user-name you're not from UK, as this is a UK site?
Hurdity x
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i live in Hong Kong, where you don't need a prescription. One can get virtually any drug without a prescription.
I took Utrogestan vaginally without suspending Estrogel, but the symptoms were pretty bad. I will schedule a uterus scan every six months, just to keep an eye on the lining. Just to be on the safe side i may resume taking utrogestan for 12 days every 6 weeks. I just dread taking progesterone because it makes me feel like a zombie.
In the past women were treated with estrogen alone in higher doses than what i am taking, that's why i thought i could avoid progesterone. It's true that the risk of developing endometrial cancer was higher on that protocol, but it's also true that by adding progesterone the risk of breast cancer would increase. New studies have shown that estrogen is safe for the breast when it's not combined with progesterone. So, we are at risk of developing two different types of cancer on these two protocols.
I just wonder why my body thrives on estrogen, while some women experience side effects such as weight gain, high blood pressure or headaches. Shouldn't we listen to our bodies? For instance, when i was fertile i couldn't take the pill because it made me very weepy and killed my libido, while other women tolerated it very well.
I also read that smoking inhibits the absorption of estrogen, so that it's also a variable that should be considered, as i am a smoker. When i take progesterone, my estrogen levels probably drop to almost zero, hence the side effects. That's probably why Angeliq HRT didn't work at all.
I am also convinced that our Body Mass Index is a factor. Women with a higher BMI are more receptive to estrogen than those with a low BMI.
Unfortunately there are very few studies assessing the risk of estrogen-only therapy for the second type of women.
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol100A/mono100A-17.pdf
"In the Million Women Study(Beral et al., 2005), the risk was somewhat lower in women with a BMI of < 25 kg/m2
than in women with a BMI of 25 kg/m2 or more. In two of the cohort studies (Lacey et al., 2005, 2007), the risk of endometrial cancer increased with duration of use, and decreased with time since last use. The risk remained elevated over that of non-users after 5 or more years since cessation of use in one study (Lacey et al., 2007), and 10 or more in the other (Lacey et al., 2005)."
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/endometrialcancer/detailedguide/endometrial-uterine-cancer-risk-factors
WEIGHT
"Most of a woman's estrogen is produced by her ovaries, but fat tissue can change some other hormones (called androgens) into estrogens. Having more fat tissue can increase a woman's estrogen levels, which increases her endometrial cancer risk. In comparison with women who maintain a healthy weight, endometrial cancer is twice as common in overweight women, and more than three times as common in obese women.
DIET AND EXERCISE
A high-fat diet can increase the risk of several cancers, including endometrial cancer. Because fatty foods are also high-calorie foods, a high-fat diet can lead to obesity, which is a well-known endometrial cancer risk factor. Many scientists think this is the main way in which a high-fat diet raises endometrial cancer risk. Some scientists think that fatty foods may also have a direct effect on estrogen metabolism, which increases endometrial cancer risk.
Physical activity lowers the risk of endometrial cancer. Several studies found that women who exercised more had a lower risk of endometrial cancer, while in one study women who spent more time sitting had a higher risk.
I have always been underweight, i still exercise a lot despite retiring from professional dancing, am a vegetarian. My unusual BMI after the menopause (i still weigh 100 lbs) might explain why progesterone (which opposes estrogen) exacerbates my menopausal symptoms. Could it be that i simply haven't got sufficient estrogen in my body when i take progesterone and that just a small dose of estrogen is enough to make me feel great?
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Hi foreign body - You are correct about the cancer risks but my gynae did point out that using oestrogen alone is likely to result in problematic bleeding sooner or later so it's not just the womb cancer risk one should take into account when using oestrogen without opposing progesterone. I am certainly no expert but I am using one pump of oestrogen per day and 12 days of 100mg Utrogestan a month to induce and bleed and this results in a good bleed which must mean my lining has built up significantly. I doubt your body weight ratio will stop your womb lining from building up.
I strongly suggest you stop smoking as this will increase your risk of all the cancers and certainly reduces the positive effectiveness of oestrogen - it may explain your negative reaction to the Utrogestan as well as this may not be absorbing correctly either. You do need to take the Utrogestan at bedtime on an empty stomach otherwise this can effect things and could also give more side effects - using it vaginally can work well though.
Why do some women get side effects on HRT and some not? We are all different and it's a trial and error thing finding the right balance. Good luck Dg x
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DG, you are right about the risks, it's just that my time on progesterone is hell and i didn't experienced any bleeding, just horrible PMS plus hot flashes. My periods were always very light and only lasted 3 or 4 days before the menopause. My uterine lining didn't get very thick when i tried IVF several years ago and was on a high dose of estrogen. I just wonder how many women developed endometrial cancer when estrogen-only HRT was prescribed in the '60s, '70s and '80s. Now the pendulum has shifted towards estrogen+progesterone but who knows how many women will suffer from breast cancer as a result of progesterone added to modern HRT.
I know about the impact of smoking but i never managed to quit for more than 3 months. My mum is the same, she is still smoking a pack a day at age 76. She even smokes when she is in bed with flu. We are hopeless hardcore smokers!
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foreign body - We all have to make our own decisions about what our bodies need. Here in the UK we have to go through a doctor for HRT and pay privately if we want to go 'off license'. I do wonder if you are actually absorbing enough oestrogen - have you had blood tests to look at your oestrogen levels recently? If, because you smoke, you are not absorbing the oestrogen properly then when you add the progesterone this would have a negative effect because there isn't enough oestrogen to balance this. As I said before, I am no expert so I would really urge you to seek professional advice if you want to continue with oestrogen only - at least have regular scans. Good luck DG x
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i am two days into my utrogestan phase and absolutely hate it. When i get up in the morning i feel like an 80 y/o. My muscles are very tight and achy, i try to stretch and realise that my flexibility is gone. I will put up with it for 10 more days but then i am off for a two months holiday and won't take utrogestan while i am away...i don't want to spoil my holiday. When i return to HK i will go for a scan and blood test. My last blood test showed very low levels of testosterone, estrogen and progesterone. That's why my gyno put me on Angeliq, which did nothing for me, except messing up my skin.
I am convinced that the medical establishment is still groping in the dark when it comes to the menopause.
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foreign body - The menopause is still a bit of a mystery because we are all different and how our bodies react to the change in hormone levels will vary greatly. How each of us react to HRt will also differ and tailoring is really the answer, however, this will still be and trial and error process.
Are you using 200mg or 100mg of Utrogestan with each dose? The side effects you are describing are very unusual - most women just find they feel a little sedated when on Utrogestan and I have to say I actually very good on it - we are all different, so our reactions will be different. I still think it is a lack of oestrogen that may be your problem. If your last blood test showed very low oestrogen with one pump of Oestrogel then I'd increase this to two pumps per day as you may need more because of very low body weight and smoking. If you are finding one pump per day is enough to keep flushes etc at bay you may get away with doing Utrogstan for 10 days every two months of 100mg Utrogestan and have a light bleed and have scans annually to check that the lining is OK. Angleique is not a good HRT preparation - I tried it and it made me feel awful. It has the synthetic progesterone which can often bring problems. You might do better with Femoston which has a kinder progesterone - in fact some women choose to have the conti version because they feel better when on the combined oestrogen with progesterone of Femoston!!!!
DG x
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Hi Dancing Girl how long have you been using the 100mg with 1 pump of gel, have you had a check to see how your uterus looks, the lining? I am thinking of reducing my dose down to 1 pump and seeing if can get by, the little extra half really makes a big diff I find, but I guess one can only try and see how one gets along....the great thing about the gel one can adjust accordingly.
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cassie - I started this regime back in December last year under the guidance of a private gynae - you wouldn't be given this regime (using a lower dose of Utrogestan) on the NHS as it is off licence. I started off doing a longer cycle using 2 pumps per day Oestrogel but I wanted to use the lowest dose possible and have got it down to one pump per day and my flushes etc are mostly under control. Initially I did 6 weeks oestrogen and then 14 days adding Utrogestan but I have shortened my cycle as I'm getting rather heavy bleeds - even though I'm using half the amount of Utrogestan!!!!
I'm 59 and would like to stay on HRt for a few more years so keeping to the lowest about of hormones is less risky. DG x
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DG, i am on utrogestan 100 mg, vaginal use, because when i took it orally it upset my stomach. It still makes me constipated, sluggish, unable to focus, and getting up in the morning is a struggle.
I agree, Angeliq was not a good fit. The synthetic progesterone had the same effect that testosterone had on my skin, it caused a terrible acne outbreak and made my legs restless. Also, it didn't do anything for my hot flashes and insomnia.
Estrogel is the holy grail for me. I feel like my old self when i am on the estrogel only phase. I have a lot of energy, my muscles recover fast from intense exercise, i regain my flexibility, my skin is glowing, i sleep well and never experience any hot flashes, my libido is back to normal, even on one pump a day.
I hope i will be able to take estrogel for a very long time. Blood tests and uterine lining scans are very important to monitor the situation, as this protocol has to be personalized in order to be safe and work.
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I've been on this combo for just about a year now and - suddenly - in past couple of months it just seems to have stopped working.
Hot flushes breaking through again and not had a proper bleed in past 3 months.
Time to switch to another regime?
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Have any of you ladies experienced weight gain on this regime?
I am using mainly oestrogel and sometimes 100mg of utrogestan (not good at remembering to take it). I dont have womb etc (surgical meno) so prob not as necessary for me.
I feel my weight is starting to creep up, nothing too drastic but clothes getting tighter. Mainly gone on hips and thighs. dont know if its because i use mainly oestrogen? I suppose my question is if i take utrogestan regularly what effect in weight do you think it would have - increase or decrease?
Would appreciate any of your thoughts on this.
Linseyx
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Why would you want to take any progesterone Linsay. If you don't have a womb then you don't need it at all.
Unfortunately weight gain in middle age is very normal. No easy answers except to reduce portion size and increase excercise.
It's not that I have put on weight but I have a different distribution ....mostly around my middle ::)
Honeybun
X
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Hi HB hope you and hubby are well, dont let your mother grind you down. I read your posts, dont always have time to reply but im thinking of you.
Was told by gynae consultant to take progestorone due to history of endo and adenomyosis, since i still have cervix.
That said im really lax about taking it, would discuss with gp but prob little point since i told him what i wanted hrt wise and he just said ok. Printed out stuff from consultant and dr currie, he agreed no probs.
Linseyx
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Thanks Linsey. Hubby is doing good.
Guess you have to follow doctors orders, shame though because progesterone is the awkward hormone. Easier to adjust oestrogen to feel better.
Maybe chat to your consultant if you get another appointement.
I don't think progesterone will make much difference to your weight, but I could be wrong. A lot of us have found that the weight just creeps on.
Honeybun
X
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i had been doing ok on Utrogestan 1-25 days, 2 pumps Estrogel but now feel all over the place.
Didn't take usual three day break fron Utrogestan this time as had to travel and didn't want dip but now trying to bleed again, after slight bleed 10 days ago, have lumpy area in left nipple area and other side sore too, prob from me prodding it.
Don't know whether to switch to 12 day regime. Have always had dip after stopping progesterone but don't want to put my breasts at risk by using a continuous(ish) regime if it's affecting them. Feel scared today, anxiety peaking, probably another sign of out of kilter hormones.
Would love a worry free holiday , always seems to coincide with holidays that i have a health worry. Sorry girls, hope good Sunday for you all x
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ps sorry for posting twice about this, forgot about this thread!
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Hi not been on for a while but running into real problems again. At christmas was up to four pumps of estrogel and had settled a bit. As time has gone on my estrogen levels were feeling high. Symptoms were tender breasts, headache and being arroused all the time. Been reducing levels with several problems. I have a few times got to a point where I was feeling ok then something would happen with my dose few times I have applied too much in error or the pump has not worked properly and had too small a dose. Each time this has happend it takes a few weeks to settle. I am on 7th month of zolidex and twice it has run out before the end of the month. I have been given a three monthly one to try to get a stable dose. I have bled all the way through even having marina and zolidex. Fast forward to last few weeks down to 2 3/4 pumps per day, one in morning and 1 2/3 at night. Went to consultant to get zolidex and he advised I should know if the dose is going to be ok after about a week and to adjust accordingly. Felt quite high with headache and feeling aroused so stupidly adjusted by a tiny amount (I have been measuring with a syringe every night). My question is how long when feeling the dose is high would you give it to see if it will settle? The constant aroused feeling could this possibly just be libido recovering after years of none? It disapears as soon as I reduce the dose but any lower and I seem to have gone too low. Headaches have been a massive problem but would imagine not having a steady dose would not help. He has also mentioned getting an ablation for the bleeding anyone had this done and it be successful?
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donnarichton - I really don't think doing such minor changes in the dose of oestrogen will make so much difference to how you feel - I used to get headaches when I used too high a dose of oestrogen. Unless you keep to the same dose each day for at least 4 weeks you have no way of knowing whether it is working for you or not. Measuring half or three quarter doses is really not the way to go. If you think 2 doses might be enough I'd do one in the morning and one at night and perhaps stick with this for 4 weeks, keep a diary and see how it goes. I am certainly not an expert but the constant bleeding might be because you are using too much oestrogen. If you are trying to control anxiety then constantly adjusting the dose won't be helping. If you use the minimum dose that controls the flushes then I'd stick with that - 2-3 pumps per day is quite a normal usage.
An ablation can sometimes help - I had one in my 30s and my bleeding settled. DG x
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Thank you I keep getting told as this is a daily dose I should know within a week. I should know from past experiences not to go too quick. The bleeding and arousal feel dose related. Going any lower I am ending in tears and struggling with work. Four weeks it is my own hormones have kicked in a few times and knocked it all over the place. I have 3 months zolidex. Hopefully I can apply correctly as made a few mistakes too much, too little then rubbing it in too quick. It went against all I had learnt to change after 1 week. Thank you again x
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Day 5 of using utrogeston vaginally and so far no dramatic side effects ! Hopefully it remains this way and this will be the regime for me this time ,fingers crossed.
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I'm thinking of changing my 1-25 day regime on Utrogestan to 1-14 day and maybe using vaginally. The 1-25 day regime has worked well to address my huge dip when i come off progesterone but am having break through bleeds that suggest it is not the right regime for me to use. As I was still having irregular periods before HRT I am concerned its not the correct one for me.
When is the best time to start a 1-14 day regime? Should i wait for my bleed to stop then start then Utrogestan for 14 days then just Estragel for 14 days?Also if I'm using it vaginally can i use the same capsules you take orally or is there a different preparation? I've been on 100 mg.
Would really appreciate any advice.
JG
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I take 100mg Utrogestan from the 15th to the 26th of each month and about 4 days after that I get the bleed. Also use it vaginally have done so forever....its exactly the same tablet.
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Thanks Cassie,
So if I'm having a bleed now I would use the Estragel first for 14 days then the Utrogestan? Do I wait for my bleed to stop? Are you using Estragel too? xx JG
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I take 200 mg utrogeston vaginally last 12 days of a cycle ,I have the pessary soft capsules perscribed off licence by private consultant,but the 100 mg caps can be used vaginally as well. Not sure if 100 mg for 12 days will be enough to shed the lining properly or not though,hopefully Hurdity will be along to guide you.
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Yes you use the estrogen for first 14 days ,this causes the lining to form,then use the estrogen and utrogeston for 12 days,then you should have a bleed.
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Thanks dazned! x
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It's tricky counting days when you are swapping essentially from a conti regime to a cycle. Ideally if you count your bleed as Day 1 then Days 1-14 you take oestrogen only as others have said, but if you are having a bleed at the "wrong" time and you are trying to re-set them then you'll need to change when Day 1 is if you see what I mean? What day are you on now and are you taking Oestrogen only? Yes just as you said in your post - ie the first 14 days but day 1 must be the first day of bleed otherwise you will still be out of sync ( but you could well be anyway, as you are in peri!).
Re the preparations - the discontinued 200 mg Utrogestan capsules and also the 100 mg ones are licensed for oral use but which many of use use vaginally - same product. The 200 mg Utrogestan capsules for fertility (vaginal use) are still being produced but they are exactly the same as the old 200 mg HRT Utrogestan - so I can't understand why the others were discontinued since it's only the box and the leaflet that is different!!
As has been said the licensed dose for HRT is 200 mg for 12 days per cycle but off license some gynaes will permit variation from this and especially if used vaginally. I use what I calculate to be half the amount vaginally that I would need orally for the amount of oestrogen I am having. This would need supervision though to ensure no endometrium build-up
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity,
My bleed came 5 days ago but was a breakthrough bleed anyway after not having a proper bleed after my last Utrogestan break.I used only Estragel last night so guess that could be my day 1?
I would have to see GP re the 2oomg Utrogestan as have 100mg at the mo.
Thanks for your reply :)
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I use 100mg Utrogestan for 12 days of the month and use Estrogel one and a bit pumps every single day. That brings on a nice bleed and keeps the lining thin.
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this is my first cycle on estrogel/utrogestan. I used estrogel (1 pump) and utrogestan 100 vaginally for 12 days. No bleeding after 2 days, just achy and have a slight temperature. Is it normal not to bleed on the first month during this protocol?
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Hi foreign body - that is quite a low dose of oestrogen so depends where you were in menopause before you started the HRT. If your periods had become very infrequent and your cycle only sporadic, then your own oestrogen dose is probably very low, so with a low dose of gel you may well not get enouh womb lining building up during that time. For the 12 days you are taking the Utro also there is no build-up either. Sometimes the bleed takes longer than two days to arrive for some women, and sometimes it may vary in amount if your own cycle kicks in from time to time. Nothing to worry about! It shouldn't give you a temperature though? Perhaps you have a bit of a bug?
Hurdity x
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thanks Hurdity! According to the blood tests/scan and my ob/gyn i am already menopausal. I haven't had a period for over 8 months.
One estrogel pump a day is enough to keep all the symptoms under control, that's why i didn't increase the dosage. I feel great on estrogen but awful on progesterone. I am going to try estrogel only for a couple of months and then take progesterone again and see if i get a bleed. In September i will go for a lining scan.
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Hurdity - if you read this firstly sorry if you answered a question I posed few weeks ago and I didn't answer, work has been manic and when I quickly looked through I lost the link! As you know I have chopped and changed over last few years of utro use, just wanted to update that as I didn't have the bleed last 2 cycles on the 100mg utro using it vaginally for the (I think it was 12
Days) I am now taking the plunge and have started using the utro at 200mg vaginally for 12 days, I am going to use this starting from the 1st of the month, As you know (I think) the utro gave me extreme tiredness which I couldn't cope with work wise before, that why I was changing around regimes, anyway I started utro 3 nights ago and so far ok, so 9 more days to go! I will see if I get a bleed and keep you posted!
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I'm on 1mg estrogen and use 200 mg utrogeston vaginally for last 12 nights if this helps you. It Did make me a bit tired and I didn't feel great on it but as I do the long cycle on it I guess I will have to grin and bear it as all other progesterone are intolerable.
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just an update. 4 days after stopping the progesterone i started bleeding, which means the protocol is working :-)
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I'm day 4 after stopping utrogeston and no sign of a bleed :-\
Is this right ????
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I'm sure it will come if it needs to! For some women the bleed takes longer to arrive. Do not fret :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity ! :)
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Why do people use oestrogel when there are patches that go upto 100mcg dose?
Was just curious, thanks
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Oestrogel gives you more flexibility when it comes to dosage - so you can experiment with finding the exact amount you need for relief of symptoms; for example, I've managed to get my dosage down to one pump plus a little bit each day. Also if you are allergic to the glue with the patches, the gel is an alternative. I tried using patches for a while but didn't like them as I found I got a big hit of hormones on the first day or so and then it wore off quite quickly so I felt as though I was on a roller coaster of highs and lows with my hormones. I have just got used to using the gel and find it great - I now have my shower before bed and apply it to inner thighs allow it to dry for 5-10mins. Like all HRT regimes it's about finding what works for you. Many women love the fact you only have to change the patch twice a week and then forget about it. DG x
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Oestrogel gives you more flexibility when it comes to dosage - so you can experiment with finding the exact amount you need for relief of symptoms; for example, I've managed to get my dosage down to one pump plus a little bit each day. Also if you are allergic to the glue with the patches, the gel is an alternative. I tried using patches for a while but didn't like them as I found I got a big hit of hormones on the first day or so and then it wore off quite quickly so I felt as though I was on a roller coaster of highs and lows with my hormones. I have just got used to using the gel and find it great - I now have my shower before bed and apply it to inner thighs allow it to dry for 5-10mins. Like all HRT regimes it's about finding what works for you. Many women love the fact you only have to change the patch twice a week and then forget about it. DG x
Hi DG
Thanks for the helpful info.
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Been on just under three pumps for 4 weeks now and bleeding and arousal feeling have disappeared along with breast tenderness a few days ago. Hot flushes and tears have become a problem trying to take it a day at a time. Is this likely to ease or have levels possibly gone too low x
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How many pumps would equal the same amount as estradot 50
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Generally speaking, 2 pumps of gel is about the equivalent of a 50mcg patch but it depends on the individual and how well you absorb each product. Some people find that 1 pump of gel is enough if they have been using a 50mcg patch.
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Thank you. I have the option to use a patch or oestrogel with urgogesteran every day. The dirty makes left by the patch put me off.
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I didn't like those either!
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Much prefer the gel its nice and cool in summer as well....:) not such fun rubbing it in in Winter but works a treat. :)
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Could someone please advise me on how to take Utrogestan?? Yesterday my GP prescribed Estradot 50 and Utrogestan 100mg and I am due to collect them from the chemist this afternoon (who had to order them), my GP didn't have a clue about dosages or anything as I had written it down for her from info gathered on here what the usual dosages are 200mg x 12 days or 100mg x 25 days. I don't know which one I should do?? I am 54 & 17 months menopausal and have been on 2 previous conti regimes (Evorel & Femseven patches) neither were suitable and I am still suffering with breakthrough bleeding, I am actually bleeding at the moment even though I am not on a cycle and was due to change my Femseven patch last night but left it on as I didn't have the Estradot or Utro prescriptions filled. So how will I take it?? I would like to apply the Estradot patch only just to feel the benefits of the oestrogen only for a couple of weeks and to get the synthetic progestins out of my system before starting the Utrogestan but this would mean having a cycle wouldn't it?? Could I do that for one month and have a bleed at the end then to see how i go then maybe next month take it for 25 days ? Or is this messing my system around too much? I did ask the pharmacist yesterday but she got her book out and just read what it said which was what I already knew!! Would I dare take 100mg only for 12 days for one month only to see how I am with it or is this risky with a 50 patch?I'm so confused as to what to do especially as I'm breakthrough bleeding at the mo :-\
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If it was me, I would very definitely use the patch only for a month to get the full benefit of the oestrogen and to gauge how it works and whether it is the right dose. I would not want to take that much Utrogestan but that is partly because I am severely intolerant to all types of synthetic progestins. Why have your been prescribed so much? Are you trying to avoid periods (I wouldn't blame you) or is that just what the doctor prescribed?
I am also 54 and taking 2 pumps of oestrogel every day, 1 tiny bead of testosterone, 25mg DHEA tablet every day and 100mg of Utrogestan vaginally for 7 days every month. I can only speak for myself here but that is minimum amount of Utrogestan required to do the job and my latest womb scan, literally taken at the end of my last period, showed a lining of only 2mm so it must be enough. My oestrogen blood levels are sky high too and still it was enough although I think perhaps it proves Utrogestan is much more powerful when used vaginally.
I must stress that we are all different and not everyone will have the same reaction to Utrogestan as me but I thought some might find it interesting and food for thought. It's worth having regular scans to avoid taking too much progesterone.
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Hi Goosieloosie
You have been prescribed the standard licensed dose of utrogestan (as you say - the info is on this site) so that's correct - as long as you are OK with it!
I would do exactly as you suggest - start with (at least) two weeks (well 16 days) of oestrogen only and then do the 12 days utrogestan and see how you go - then try the 25 days out of 28 - if you got breakthrough bleeding on the conti patch then just doing the 25 days will enable your body to have a small bleed if there is any build-up. If you intend to use it vaginally you will probably be able to go longer than a 4 week cycle. If you can't tolerate the utrogestan most of the time then a cycle would be the way to go.
I am on exactly your combo and have been on this more or less exactly for 4.5 years. I have varied my cycle from 5 - 8 weeks and have gone back to two-monthly. I use Utrogestan 200 mg x 12-13 days vaginally every two months and I get a good bleed. Various scans I have had have been OK so I am confident that this regime works for me and is not causing my womb lining to thicken.
Personally I would always start by taking the licensed amount and take it from there.
Good luck and do keep us posted! :)
Hurdity x
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Thank you for that Hurdity & Mary. So initially should I take the licensed dose of 200 mg for 12 days or would it be ok to try 100 mg for 12 days to see how I fair..or will that not be enough to keep my womb thin (this way just for the first time)? Also when using the 200 vaginally do you insert 2 x 100 capsules?? Stupid question really as I assume it would have to be? Yes most definitely i will keep you posted, I am crossing everything that this works for me ;)
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Has anyone taken the urtrogestan every day as I am?
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I was prescribed 100mg everyday but planned to take it for the 25 days.
I couldn't tolerate taking it and gave up after 6 days!
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How did it make you feel tinkerbell?
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Horrendous vivid dreams that woke me up several times each night and when that wasn't happening I felt wired up and couldn't sleep.
It also made me feel incredibly hot at night, I had to keep moving around the bed to find a cool spot. Although I am nearly a year since last period I have not had hot flushes yet and since stopping it I now need my hot water bottle at night again! So the utrogestan must have been the cause of that.
I just couldn't continue, maybe it might have improved but I felt unsafe driving I was so tired and I have a 50 minute drive each morning .
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I'm in no doubt that Utrogestan (and all the synthetic progestins) is the achilles heel of HRT and has some strange side effects and I cannot take it for very long. Stellajane, I can relate to what you are saying about it taking a few days to flush out of your system before the bleed and I think it hangs around in your body for longer than it says in the instuctions.
If you are happy with HRT but hate the Utrogestan part and it is ruining your life, my advice is this. Try taking 100mg Utrogestan vaginally for 7 days, and then go and have a scan immediately after your period. I know it's difficult to arrange, you will probably have to pay for it and you will have to book it well in advance but it is the only way you will ever know if you are taking the right amount. I did it recently and my lining measurement was only 2mm so it must be working in my case but I realise everyone is different and of course this dose might not be enough for some women but at least you will know. It might sound radical but what else can you do? I had no choice because I can't take any more Utrogestan than I do now so if it didn't work, the next step for me would be a hysterectomy.
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The estrogel and the urogesteran is to override my cycle to give my bladder a chance to heal. As anyone had success with a continuous regime
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Yes me so far Englishrose I take it every dat
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I take Utrogestan everyday alongside elleste solo 1mg and am 57, has been the best thus far and I've tried a few.
Lesley x
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I have just been prescribed 1mg estradiol gel in a sachet daily and 200mg utogestan daily. I saw a women's health specialist and she was adamant I needed to take both daily. I'm 55 post menopause last period about 3 years ago. Ita very early days with me for HRT. Having read all the posts on the forum I was wondering why she didn't say I could take less utrogestan, especially as my symptoms are very emotional based.
Guess I will have to trial it. Anything must be better from the disarray my life has been for years.
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Yes that is a high dose of utrogestan - it is twice the licensed dose for that amount of gel so maybe start with 100 mg although some women get spotting on this dose if they absorb the gel really well. Maybe the higher dose she has given to start with as you are post-meno and your body not used to oestrogen - breakthrough bleeding can be heavier at the start of HRT - even on continuous combined HRT - until the body acclimatises and the progesterone does its job in keeping the lining thin
Hurdity x
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I completed 12 days of Utrogestan 100 vaginally 4 days ago. (after 5 weeks of 25 mcg patch). A day ago I got a mild forehead headache and tender bosoms and then last night bleeding started, full in straight away. Has been heavy today. Heavier than i would have thought given the dose of my patch. It's good that the Utro is doing its job but is there a possibility it's taking away more than the lining?? I feel like I'm going to bleed to death. Ok, drama queen I know but the Provera I took in December didn't give this much blood and it's supposed to be stronger. I feel quite grotty too today. Words of comfort/reassurance needed ......
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Hurdity I saw Dr Annie Evans in Cornwall, and she has prescribed 200mg utrogestan I have it in a capsule. She said she wants me to stay on for 3 months if possible.
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Sorry just checked the box its 100mg
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That's very reassuring Stellajane - thanks. I went to bed last night wondering if I'd wake in a pool of blood. With the Provera it started very slowly (brownish)for 2 days, then dark red normal flow for a few days then ended like the start. The bright red and very liquid is quite scary - full on straight away. I'm pleased to say it has eased up a bit over night. What regime do you use with Utro? Thank you again.
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I'll try to keep a long story short! Two years post meno; started Evorel conti last summer (half a patch or less) after couple of months felt the progesterone was negating the oestrogen positives plus I was concerned about the implications of constant oestrogen and progesterone. I had no breakthrough bleeding at all.
Saw a gynae in October who prescribed Provera every 3 months to clear the womb lining. It was a high dose and I chickened out - I took a lower dose after about 7 weeks. I wasn't too bad on it but found I was increasingly 'wired up' and it seemed to take ages to get it out of my system.
So in January five weeks had passed on oestrogen only and I knew I had to sort out something in the way of progesterone. I had some Utrogestan from Spain and thought I'd bite the bullet and take it which I did vaginally. I felt fine on it although towards the last couple of days of it I felt a bit strange.
And here I am now. Four full days before the bleed. I do feel it's been less aggressive than the Provera but quite different. I'm now toying with trying a similar regime to you ie 12 days every 2 months (I would take 100mg) or 7 days every month. I was hoping that my low dose of oestrogen might give a minimal/zero bleed on the shorter cycle, but judging by what other ladies say, it looks highly unlikely!
I must say I'm almost up to here with hrt - if it's not inserting a tablet, it's putting up with a bleed. I don't like it however I'm prepared to persevere until the summer and then I might try to go without.
One thing with the Utro, this might sound bizarre but I found it completely dampened my libido; now whether this was psychologically because I was using it vaginally I don't know. I will wait till after this bleed to see what happens as I'm certainly not interested in it at the moment!!
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Sunnydays, I know how you feel! Utrogestan does dampen libido and mood and that is one of the many reasons I limit the use of it.
I also think is more powerful than you might think when taken vaginally. I have never had the scanty bleed that Professor Studd mentions either, it is always heavy although less so since I reduced my dose of oestrogen from 3 pumps of gel to 2.
I am currently taking 100mg of Utrogestan for 7 days each month and I am on a fairly high dose of oestrogen and I just had a lining thickness reading of 2mm. I have no intention of doing so but if I increased my dose of Utrogestan, I might end up stripping the whole womb away, there would be nothing left!
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Thanks Maryg. Just flooded through again :( exactly same time as yesterday! This is gross >:( thank goodness I'm not at work today!
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Sorry to hear that Sunnydays. It often seems to come in waves and sudden floods are quite common and you can soak through a superplus tampon very quickly. You can then go a while with very little then it floods again. I find the periods are over very quickly now, usually about 4 days. On the positive side, the Utrogestan is doing its job.
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It's good to know it's 'normal' and I'm not bleeding to death and of course, it's doing its job. Still jolly well gross and not factored to be in my daily life routine!
My next plan is how to get this to a 'scanty' period!
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Question: Utrogestan does not appear to be licensed in the UK to be used vaginally. I've done a small amount of research and the BNF arm of the NHS/NICE refers to it being used vaginally at a certain time during pregnancy for some specific reason. So, in the countries where it is licensed for vaginal use, is this also connected with pregnancy or is it for hrt use? If it is the latter, then are there any trials that have been done in these countries to check its effects on long term use as, with pregnancy, it oils only be used for a shorter period of time.
This leads me to my second question: I understand that Prof Studd and others are proponents of the use vaginally for hrt, have they instigated any research to support their commitment to its use in this way?
Just curious.....
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I also use the 100mg for 12 days, the first 2 days of bleed usually very heavy, clots etc, then it tapers off. Used to bleed for about 6 days have noticed the bleeds are getting shorter as I age....:) & less violent....:) one benefit I guess... and my gynae said this would happen...I am loathe to use it less than monthly though as my lining was thick and I was getting breakthrough bleeds on the longer cycle....its def working though as last scan lining was 3mm had come down from 7mm....
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I am on this continuously (2 weeks so far) wondering when there is the faintest chance it would help with VA/Bladder pain and muscles aches/strange sensations. Really fed up
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Question: Utrogestan does not appear to be licensed in the UK to be used vaginally. I've done a small amount of research and the BNF arm of the NHS/NICE refers to it being used vaginally at a certain time during pregnancy for some specific reason. So, in the countries where it is licensed for vaginal use, is this also connected with pregnancy or is it for hrt use? If it is the latter, then are there any trials that have been done in these countries to check its effects on long term use as, with pregnancy, it oils only be used for a shorter period of time.
This leads me to my second question: I understand that Prof Studd and others are proponents of the use vaginally for hrt, have they instigated any research to support their commitment to its use in this way?
Just curious.....
Hi Sunnydays
As Stellajane says!
Yes it is licensed everywhere vaginally for fertility - to help maintain a pregnancy for those with insufficiency, and as Stellajane says elsewhere in Europe it is licensed for vaginal use as part of HRT.
A few years ago when I first started using it I wrote to the manufacturers and they sent me a translation of the French product info. They also sent me details of the research which allowed licensing for vaginal use - summaries anyway. If there was a facility to upload attachments or send them by pm I could do so! Also there have been several papers looking at blood levels of progesterone following vaginal and oral use as well as looking at the endometrial thickness. If you want I can look these out and give you the refs but it will take a while as they are either downloaded on my computer or maybe book-marked. This is why the private gynaes and some NHS docs are happy to prescribe it this way and at a lower dosage - depending on the woman of course.
Hurdity x
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Thanks both for feedback to my questions. If you have the spare time (?) Hurdity I'd be interested for any references you might be able to send through. I guess with so many leading gynaes in the UK prescribing Utro I'm surprised they haven't lobbied for lower doses and vaginally route in the the UK.
By the way day 4 of bleeding for me and niagra falls has eased thankfully!
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I use utro vaginally and just wondered if anyone had any tips for the groggy heavy head feeling you get on it. Tbh it's mansgeable just a nuisance when I'm running round with my 2 little ones but I just push through it and have a strong coffee! I'm sure I read somewhere that someone used it about 7pm in the evening rather than bedtime to help with this?!? Thanks x
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Sunnydays I have just copied and pasted some notes I made some time ago from various papers. I haven't re-read them before posting. I'm sure there are others too:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22321028'
Endometrial response to concurrent treatment with vaginal progesterone and transdermal estradiol.
Fernández-Murga L1, Hermenegildo C, TarÃn JJ, GarcÃa-Pérez MÃ, Cano A.
Author information
Abstract
ABSTRACT Objective To describe the effect of the intermittent administration of vaginal progesterone and a low-dose estradiol patch on endometrial stability, as assessed by the rate of amenorrhea and endometrial stimulation. Methods This was an open study in which 64 moderately symptomatic, postmenopausal women were treated in the outpatient clinic of our University Hospital for different intervals up to 1 year. The treatment consisted of a combination of patches delivering 25 µg/day estradiol and intravaginal pills containing 100 mg of micronized progesterone. Patches and pills were administered concomitantly in a twice-a-week protocol. The endometrial response was assessed by endovaginal ultrasound completed with suction biopsy when required. Results Both cumulative amenorrhea and no-bleeding rates increased progressively and reached 88.9% and 100.0%, respectively, by the 12th month. Isolated or repetitive episodes of bleeding, bleeding and spotting, or only spotting were reported by three, four, and 12 women, respectively. Endometrial thickness remained unaltered. Endometrium was atrophic in the seven women in whom a biopsy was performed. Conclusion The substantially reduced progestogen load determined by this combination achieved an acceptable incidence of spotting or bleeding when associated with a low estrogenic dose. There was no apparent endometrial stimulation. Additional studies are required to confirm this observation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15222511
Efficacy of oral micronized progesterone when applied via vaginal route.
Choavaratana R1, Manoch D.
Author information
Abstract
The aim of the study was to compare the efficacy of oral micronized progesterone when applied by the vaginal route. The comparative study of serum progesterone levels between oral and vaginal micronized progesterone administration was conducted in sixty female volunteers. The subjects were equally divided into two groups to receive the drug either via the oral or vaginal route. The subjects' profiles showed that there was no significant difference in general characteristics between these two groups. The blood tests for estrogen and progesterone levels were performed on all volunteers before and after the drug administration. The data collected from the experiment revealed that the serum progesterone levels achieved by oral administration (5.06 +/- 2.95 ng/ml) differed significantly (p < 0.001) from those achieved by vaginal administration (8.26 +/- 4.09 ng/ml). The data also revealed that the serum progesterone levels of the oral administration group (4.23 +/- 2.68 ng/ml) did not differ significantly (p = 0.925) from the other group (4.15 +/- 3.40 ng/ml) when the serum estrogen level was less than 30 pg/ml. On the contrary, when the serum estrogen level was at least 30 pg/ml, there was a significant (p < 0.005) difference in the serum progesterone levels between these two groups (6.32 +/- 2.99 ng/ml for the oral route and 9.76 +/- 3.23 ng/ml for the vaginal route).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20575654
Transdermal estradiol and oral or vaginal natural progesterone: bleeding patterns.
Di Carlo C1, Tommaselli GA, Gargano V, Savoia F, Bifulco G, Nappi C.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To evaluate the effects on bleeding pattern of two different doses of natural progesterone (NP) administered per os or per vagina in association with transdermal estradiol in a continuous, sequential estrogen-progestin therapy.
METHODS:
A prospective, randomized trial was conducted on 100 patients randomized into four groups. Each group received transdermal 17beta-estradiol treatment at the dose of 50 microg/day. Groups A and B received NP per os at the dose of 100 mg/day and 200 mg/day, respectively. Groups C and D received NP per vagina at the dose of 100 mg/day and 200 mg/day, respectively.
RESULTS:
After 12 cycles of treatment, no significant differences were observed in endometrial thickness between groups, suggesting that all treatments are effective in balancing the effects of estradiol on endometrium. Regarding bleeding control, patients in Groups C and D showed a higher number of episodes of regular bleeding than patients in Groups A and B and fewer episodes of spotting. The better control of bleeding was associated with a higher treatment compliance in patients who received vaginal NP, with a larger percentage of women completing the study.
CONCLUSION:
Transdermal estrogen replacement therapy combined with 100 mg of micronized NP administered per vagina from the 14th day to the 25th day of each 28-day cycle leads to good cycle control and provides excellent patient satisfaction without serious side-effects. This therapy could be a treatment of first choice in early postmenopausal patients.
E-mail from information manager at Ferring ( previous manufacturer of Utrogestan)
The product monograph talks of two trials of vaginal use as part of HRT – they're small patient populations – 20 and 30 patients in each.
One study used 100mg once daily vaginally for 21 days of 28 day cycle – the study lasted a year and was undertaken in 20 patients. Symptoms were significantly reduced, bone density remained and no adverse effects were seen. The endometrium was safely protected from the estrogenic effect of 1.5mg transdermal Oestrogel.
Another of 30 patients over 36 months studied the use of 100mg vaginal Utrogestan every other day. For most patients there was absence of bleeding and good patient satisfaction. There was a reduction in mean endometrial thickness and at the end of the study endometrial atrophy was seen in all cases. Five of the 30 women dropped out due to vaginal bleeding.
The references are:
Spritzer et al Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes 2003; 111 (5) 267-273
Vilodre et al Gynecol Endocrinol 2003; 17 (4) 323-328.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Hi Niamh
Sorry I don't have any suggestions - I couldn't put it in earlier because it would fall out but I can see that would be an option if you are - er - tight up there ::) !
I'm afraid I do just put up with the groggy head - if there is a twinge of headache appearing I take an Ibuprofen or an aspirin and that helps. For me this side effect from temporary doses of utro is preferable to having it all the time or any of the synthetic ones. Yes must be difficult with little ones - how old are they? We mums tend to manage to push through when they are young - including illness and all sorts - by sheer will power and necessity! :)
Hurdity x
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Hi they are 2 and 7 and full on busy boys 😂 it probably helps tbh!
I might try the earlier time and see.
Today is day 1 so always worse from that initial hit but like you I'll deal with it for a short period of time and I tolerate it well considering im prog intolerant!x
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Hello ladies, I am now joining you in this group as I managed to persuade my Dr to prescribe the oestrogel/utrogestan earlier this week. It was a complete battle! I saw a lady Dr in her early 30's. I said I had started getting menopause symptoms about 9 months ago and am going through peri menopause and having a terrible time. She looked at me and said yes but its a very natural process and you don't need to medicalise it! I almost said to her I will come back when you are 50 and see how you feel then!!
So I told her I wasn't happy on Femoston 1/10 any more and am progesterone intolerant, she wanted to know all my symptoms and kept asking me how long had my periods stopped for. I kept telling her I was in peri and the Femoston would give me a bleed anyway, she just didn't get it. >:( She then had to look up the oestrogel/utrogestan as she didn't know a thing about it. Finally gave in and offered to give me a months trial. :D
She has given me 100mg of the Utrogestan so I am wondering whether to just take 1 capsule from days 15 - 26 instead of 2, as I am dreading any bad prog symptoms. Also thinking of trying 1 pump of the gel as I was only on Femoston 1/10 which dealt with sysmtoms ok, just didn't do well on 2nd half of the packet.
Can't wait to start trying out the new regime, just need to get my bleed now!! :)
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Yes that sounds fine 1 pump you can always push it to one and half and 12 days of the utrogestan should give you a bleed about 4 days after you stop it...will you use it orally or the other way :)
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Tangerinedreams, well done for persevering and getting the right medication. Once you have had your period, you can get started on it.
If you are only planning to use 1 pump of gel then I think 100mg of Utrogestan will be enough. I would also recommend you take it vaginally because it has fewer side effects when taken that way and it is also more powerful because most of it hits the spot.
I am currently using 2 pumps of gel every day and only take 100mg Utrogestan for 7 days each month (vaginally) because I am severely intolerant to all types of synthetic progestin and to high doses of Utrogestan so I cannot take any more than that. I had a uterine scan recently and the lining measured 2mm so it is definitely doing the job in my case but everyone is different and the only way you can know for sure is to see what kind of bleed you produce and have a scan - preferably straight after a period. That way, you can gauge whether or not you need more or less Utrogestan.
Good luck with the new regime!
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Hi, well I've now had my very first Estradot 50 patch only on for one week and haven't yet taken any of the Utrogestan as Ithough I would enjoy the effects of the nice oestrogen only for a while! Unfortunately thoughI've been ill for the entire week with a virus/cough/cold/bad chest :'( I'm feeling much better now though and I'm wondering when and how much Utrogestan I should use/take? Should I starton day 15 (that is 15 days after I first put the patch on) and as I plan to use it vaginally will 100 mg be enough for 12 days as opposed to jumping straight in with the licensed dose of 200 just incase of side effects? I'm worried 100 willnotbe enough to shed the lining properly? Or could I enjoy the oestrogen only patch for a bit longer or stick to 15 days? I'm 54 & post meno. Not sure what dose to use, my GP thought I was doing the 25 days of Utrogestan justbecause I'm post meno but I'm not keen as I'm a migraine sufferer. Thanks for any advice on how to take the Utrogestan.
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Goosie, I would definitely use 100mg vaginally and see how you get on with it. If you get a good bleed with that dose, then you will know it is enough but you might want to have a scan (preferably after a period) to check that you are not taking too little or too much.
I think the licensed dose is high because Utrogestan is only licenced to be taken orally in the UK - for no reason whatsoever. Therefore, because about 50% of it gets lost in your digestive system, the licensed dose has to be high but you can take much less if you use it vaginally.
Professor Studd would not be prescribing women 100mg of Utrogestan for 7 days each month if it was highly risky or dangerous. I have proved that this is definitely enough for me by having a scan immediately after a period and having a lining measurement of 2mm and I take quite a high dose of oestrogen. I would argue that had I taken any more Utrogestan, it could have caused me problems because the lining was already thin enough. I realise that I am only one person and that everyone is very different but if it this works for me, chances are it will work for other women.
If you turn the whole thing on its head, it would be impossible for all women to need exactly the same amount of Utrogestan to get the same results. Therefore, it is trial and error and the dose must be adjusted to suit the individual and yet again, once size does not fit all.
If you are progesterone intolerant, you have to be realistic about how much Utrogestan you can take and if you set the bar too high, you will end up cheating like I did and ditching out after a few days - incidentally, it was still enough to give me a proper period.
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Ok,Thank you for your advice Mary G and Stellajane.I think it probably would be sensible to start with the 100 and see how I feel on this and work my way up onto the 200 if necessary.
So...to clarify...I count the first day I put the Estradot patch on as day one? And use the first Utrogestan capsule on day 15 for 12 days, yes? How do you all keep track of the days you have to take it, stopping & starting? Do you mark it in a diary and count the weeks or days till you take the next lot?
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My view would be to start with 200 mg and work down although if you are using it vaginally you will probably be fine on much less. As Mary G says we are all different - so I use 200 mg vaginally for 12-13 days every two months with a 50 mcg patch and that is fine - but over the years I know my body and have had various scans for one reason or another so I know it's OK for me. When I first started using progesterone ( the vaginal preparation not licensed for HRT - called Cyclogest) I used the dose recommended by my gynae GP (who studied under Studd years ago) - but looking back I could have taken less - but good to have started with the max dose.
If 7 days per month were safe and effective for everyone this would be the licensed dose, but unfortunately there is no licensed dose for vaginal use. Even so in France and other countries where they can use it vaginally, there is no difference in dose given for vaginal vs oral use, although research has shown that less will probably so the job. It is not risky and dangerous - but could lead to increased incidence of endometrial hyperplasia ( which can lead to cancer) in some women - so personally I would recommend erring on the side of caution in the first instance.
If your side effects are just tiredness and foggy head and a bit of low mood - then that's just like pms sort of and if it's not severe then you may be able to tolerate it - like some of us who have posted on here. You would be very unlucky to be severely intolerant so hope you are OK with it :)
Re how you count - well I have always counted the dates I take progesterone (rather than saying what's Day 1 etc) so when I used it monthly I used to start on the Sunday every 4 weeks and took it for 11 days (that was the dose I was given). I just used to count out the number of capsules I had to take ( same as now) and when they were gone then that was it. You might decide to do calendar months ie slightly longer than 4 weeks - and then that becomes easier as you can just say the first of every months I will take my 12 days of progesterone. I have always kept it to the nearest weekend so that the progesterone withdrawal and start of bleed is always at the weekend when I don't usually have to work!
Hurdity x
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I am on continuous Regime with 100 utgesteran everyday. I am only two weeks in & as before when I started Esteogen I am aching all over. I stopped for 2 weeks last time & tried a different patch. The Esteogel is really helping my bladder so I'm a bit :( to stop. I wonder if I carried on it would ease? Any experience. I just want to stick with a system & just get on with it if you see what I mean
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I know I'm a new user to Utro (just one cycle) but I can't be faffing around with a load of dates. Im finding that every moment of every day is filled with thoughts on hrt and my health and I need to move away from that. I would either go by taking the tablets and 'when they're all used up they're all used up' basis or going by calender month.
My plan for my next cycle is to use Utro 1st of the month. So it'll be on the 1st March Utro for 7 days, then again on the 1st April etc etc. I can tweak that date by a day or so depending on what I have planned.
Depending on how this works will depend on how I continue with it - either as above or a long cycle.
I'm conscious I'm 'breaking the rules' but I just can't do 12 days, then have to put up with a period for 4/5 days then have only a week or so of freedom before starting again!
As Stellajane knows I'm seeking out that scanty bleed!!! The only thing is, although prof studd says about a scanty bleed, if it's scanty, how do we know if it's done its job? I guess it has if there's no breakthrough??
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Hi ladies - I would just like to throw in a word of caution. If you play around with how you use Utrogestan or any progesterone then you must expect to get problematic and/or erratic bleeding - anything you wish to experiment with should be under the guidance of a specialist gynae. My gynae stressed to me the importance of taking any progesterone for at least 12 days to ensure that the womb lining sheds properly. Those ladies who are under a private gynae will usually have an annual scan to check the lining is not building up or ensure other problems are not emerging.
There have been many ladies on MM who have told us about their experiences with Prof Studd and sadly many have found he does not offer good ongoing support when problems arise!!! His regime of 2 pumps of Oestrogel with 7 days or Utro per month will not suit everyone and is certainly not licensed by NICE - my private gynae would not let me do 7 days as he knew this could result in problems.
I am really worried that many are simply trying this regime without seeking advice first. I tried a slightly longer cycle of 4 weeks of one pump of Oestrogel daily with 14 days of Utro 100mg and this resulted in erratic and heavy prolonged bleeding by the second and third cycle!!! I then tried 2 weeks of Oestrogel with 14 days of 200mg Utro and still got problems. I then tried Utro continuously and continued to have spotting on and off and nasty stomach cramps. I also tried using it vaginally and it really effected my bowels in a horrid way - I felt really uncomfortable!!! I also felt rather sedated on the 200mg dosage.
I do hope you all find a good way forward but I'm afraid that Utro doesn't suit everyone and I've read other posts from ladies who have similar experiences to me. Dg xxx
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DG I think your words of caution are wise and also highlight the fact how different we all are and how what suits one might be a disaster for another. I know that I wouldn't consider deviating from a prescribed medication for an illness but I'm becoming increasingly aware that in terms of 'treating' meno symptoms, there seems to be a shortage of flexibility. I've been trying to find the right hrt for the past 13 months. Fortunately we have this forum where we can make informed decisions/choices about trying out certain regimes. Waiting for GP appointments or simply having to ask the GP yet again for a different prescription to try isn't always welcome. I think I'm very much the culprit for trying my own thing, but as soon as I feel I've hit on something that suits me, I'll be visiting the GP for their support and prescribing x
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Lol I like the way some dodgy posts about prof Studd are starting to appear I Just payed out to see him! I would just like to say at this point and I don't agree with it but 30 years ago a lot of women were just on oestrogen only and one of them was my aunty who was on it for 20 years and she's still alive!
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Anyway besides my last post prof Studd smeared 1 pump and a very large blob on testin on my arms yesterday and already today got some more energy but feel a bit jittery so will watch testin with caution. O Jane been taking oestrogen only for the last 4 months. I will be very interested in advice and help in using them although I am one for using my intuition. Side effects is usually my problem. The nurse said just breast tenderness! ? I get a headache from taking pain killers! !
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Makes sense what you're saying Stellajane, I hadn't thiught of it like that..... of course, the longer the progesterone cycle the less lining there is to dispose of. Ho hum! I need to rethink my strategy (again!) swear word swear word!!
And DG, I'm sorry too that you're having problems again. I recall you saying a while ago you were going to have a break from everything to let your body get sorted - how's that working for you?
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Hi all - following my erratic bleed problems with Utro (mostly brownish spotting with period cramps but non the less very irritating) I have now done 4 weeks without any systemic HRT - I've gone back to using Vagifem alone for the time being (3-4 times a week). Flushes and night sweats are not too bad but I've had at least 6 nasty headaches lasting 24-72 hours and finding these really debilitating. I'm going to persevere for a while to see if the headaches settle but I think I may have to try a different progesterone that will control the bleeds better - maybe Provera as I've heard other women who had my problems switched to Provera with better success. DG x
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Sunnydays thought it might be useful/reassuring to know I use utro 100mg vaginally for 7 days a month starting on 1st. I'm severely progesterone intolerant I can just about do 7 days and vaginally is a million times better than orally. I also get a pretty heavy bleed for 5-7 days. I should note I see Prof Studd who ive found excellent so I'm little unsure about any negativity about him surely he's the leading voice and pioneer on this. He can be a little brusque but he's dedicated his life to this and I really can't see that he would recommend anything unsafe, infact for those of us who can't tolerate progesterone it's unsafe for us to take a longer and bigger dose!! Also to note I raised a question with Dr Currie and her view was 7 days was safe so long as I had a decent bleed it was doing its job. I get no erratic bleeding outside of this. I hope that helps x
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Niamh, it's interesting that Dr. Currie thought that 7 days of Utrogestan was enough too. I think the time has come to review the guidelines/licensing on Utrogestan. It is pretty well established that it is much more effective when taken vaginally so the manufacturers should take this into account and not state the same dose for oral and vaginal use, it doesn't make any sense. The UK also needs to licence it for vaginal use, does anyone know why they have not done this?
I agree with what you have said about Professor Studd and would add that his input has helped get the NICE guidelines changed. He has made hormones his life's work and carried out extensive research of his own and I don't know where I would be without him, no other doctor helped me or had a clue how to deal with severe synthetic progesterone intolerance. He has long advocated the use of bio identical transdermal HRT and Utrogestan and knew before others that the risks (albeit very small) of HRT were hugely exaggerated. He also understands the need for a broad approach to HRT with as much in-built flexibility as possible so that women can find a regime that works for them and are not put off taking HRT altogether.
You make a very good point about the perils of taking too much synthetic progesterone if you are intolerant. If I take any type of synthetic progesterone or Utrogestan in large quantities, I get silent migraines which consist of a blind spot, followed by about 25 minutes of disturbed vision during which I cannot drive or do anything at all. This is extremely disabling, I am virtually blind and there are a whole host of jobs I would not be able to do because of it. This could be doing me serious harm if it happened too often not to mention ruin my quality of life. In my case, synthetic progestins or too much Utrogestan are the sole cause of these migraines.
The medical profession hasn't exactly covered itself in glory when it comes to the menopause and HRT and this has been made much worse by two extremely flawed and badly conducted studies that have since been discredited but nonetheless caused a lot of damage and set HRT back by 10 years at least. I wonder how many lives have been ruined because of it. All guidelines should be subject to constant review.
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Just to add the ref you were referring to Stellajane:
Progestogen intolerance and compliance with hormone replacement therapy in menopausal women. Panay and Studd (1997)
The incidence of endometrial hyperplasia is reduced to 4% with 7 days of progestogen, 2% with 10 days and 0% with 12 days of progestogen if prescribed at an adequate daily dosage (Sturdee et al., 1978; Paterson et al., 1980)
Later in the same paper:
The minimum recommended duration of progestogen required to prevent endometrial hyperplasia completely is 12 days Sturdee et al., 1978). However, if a patient is progestogen intolerant the duration of progestogen can be reduced to 10 or even 7 days per month. This will increase the risk of endometrial hyperplasia, particularly if implants are being used, so it will be necessary to have a lower threshold for endometrial sampling should there be any suspicious bleeding
http://humupd.oxfordjournals.org/content/3/2/159.long
I haven't read this for ages but always remember the info re the progestogen.
On Prof Studd's website it used to quote that there should be a lower threshold for endometrial sampling if 7 days progestogen were used reguarly but it's either buried somewhere or he has removed that statement.
Re Dr Currie's comments - I imagine these comments referred to your specific case Niamh that you wrote to her about and are not generally applicable? If I remember rightly you are not yet at menopause and started treatment when your periods are still regular and possilby closer together indicating the late reproductive stage when you will still be ovulating? If this is the case you will be producing progesterone as per the normal menstrual cycle, which may be why there is greater flexibility in the progesterone dose for women in your position? I stand to be corrected here though re her comments and your situation!!
Hurdity x
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Niahm thanks for that. What dose oestrogen do you use and are you peri?
Stellajane I think you're quite right about the potential for ladies to try out the 7 days for a scanty period without regular scans. I think I may be guilty of falling into this category. It would be unfair for me to say I'm severely intolerant; I guess I'm just intolerant, I know I felt dreadful after about 8 days of progesterone It was very useful what you said about the 7days, 10 days and 12 days and I think I'll try to aim for the middle one.
Thanks Hurdity for that link. I had a quick read of the full document. The bit on page 9 was quite interesting when referring to micronised progesterone for progesterone opposition (don't know if this means for hrt) in that it states a dose over 12 days for the oral preparation and 25mgs twice a day as a suppository. Doesn't actually make it clear if that way of taking it is actually the micronised version and if it is, could vaginally be the same amount?? All interesting stuff anyway and great that we have the opportunity to discuss it here on the forum x
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Hello im 41 and probably peri, I saw Studd for crippling Pmt but I'm probably early peri. I use 2 pumps of ostrogel, did use 3 for a while but started to cause me problems. I definately don't get a scanty bleed it's heavy...to give you a comparison I find after 2 days of using utro orally im in a very bad way, vaginally about day 4/5 I feel pretty awful...so id say I'm on the severely intolerant side, I really couldn't cope with 10 days 7 is a struggle. Hope that helps x
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Progesterone always stops me from sleeping don't know where the myth of it being a calming hormone comes from? ?
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Has anyone had joint pain when first starting estrogel or any Esteogen & it eases off?
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Same here Kate50 and weird dreams as well!
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Hi Dancingirl
I just read your post regarding your experience with utrogestan. I saw Prof Studd 2 years ago and had a lot of problems with using utrogestan. I only had to use it for 7 days each month and found it was a real struggle. I felt terrible with very bad stomach cramps and low mood and weird dreams. I tried it vaginally as well. I was told I should expect a very light bleed, but I used to get a heavy bleed. Anyway had to stop that within three months and did try to get advice from Prof Studd by phone, but he never replied. Thought it was just me with not being able to tolerate utrogestan. I saw him after 3 months and he advised me to have a hysterectomy.
Vickypk
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Well I'm not trying it till April so shall see what happens. I had a heavy bleed after stopping just four days of one of my combined HRT I took so don't think it will take much. I also have many years of homepathic usage and there are a few remedies that will kick start a bleed think I would prefer these to a hysterectomy!
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I couldn't tolerate Utrogestan it gave me very vivid dreams that woke me up several times a night and made me so hot at night that felt like I had a fever. Lasted 7 nights and then abandoned it .
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What do you do now then Tinkerbell?
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Meant to be having a Mirena fitted this week, but feel nervous about that and wondering if I should cancel it as I am worried in case I get side effects with that too.
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Tinkerbell are you prog intolerant? I had a Mirena fitted last summer as my gp said it would help my pmt, it was horrific I lasted 48 hours and paid privately to get it taken out, I'm severely prog intolerant and struggle with utro but compared to the mirena and my pmt before its a million times better. I limp through 7 days but survive. Try the mirena but it's got a nasty synthetic prog in it, I felt mad couldn't sleep, crying the whole time. studd has recommended I consider a hysterectomy but I'm 41 with 2 small children so msybe in 5 years or so...I think if you're really prog intolerant its the only way to resolve things fully or you find an HRT regime that's bearably/better than being with no hrt if that makes sense !x
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Absolutely wouldn't have a mirena fitted! Sorry especially if you have problems with progesterone
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Tinkerbell - do try the Mirena. The Mirena is recommend by many gynaes as a good option even if you struggle with oral or transdermal progesterone. The benefits of the Mirena over other forms of delivery are set out clearly on this site:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php
Niamh's and Kay50's experiences sound very scary but are very unusual and you may be pleasantly surprised how easy this option is when you take into account the benefits of using as little or as much oestrogen as you like to control all your meno symptoms. Sadly one tends to only hear about those who have had difficulty with the Mirena but many women repeatedly have it fitted over many years with no problems.
Do expect some cramps at first and there is likely to be some bleeding and then spotting for a few weeks but usually the bleeding all stops within 3-6 months - so even if you are peri meno, any erratic or heavy bleeding will be lessened and under control.
As I mentioned before, Utro has not been ideal for me - I got vivid dreams and even woke drenched in sweat on many occasions, so whilst it is hailed as the wonder progesterone it doesn't suit everyone.
Do keep us posted about how you do with the Mirena - I believe there is a high percentage of around 80-90% of women who do very well with it. DG xxxx
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I am getting really nervous about it....got a stinking cold so don't know whether to cancel.
Dancing girl.... I got the vivid dreams and terrible night sweats too.
Did you have a Mirena fitted then?
I haven't had a period for 11 months now, so will I get the bleeding with it?
Also my son's birthday on the same day as the fitting, will I feel up to go out for dinner in the evening?
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I had a heavy bleed post 12 days of Utro this mth, with quite a few clots, heavy for about 3 days and then tapered off for another 2 or so.
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I had a Mirena in post meno for 4 and a half years and found it OK - I tried all kinds of other progesterones before this which all gave me problems and Utro was the best but still not ideal as it has given me problematic bleeding. I actually won't don't rule out having another Mirena but I'm about to turn 60 and want to see if i can manage with just Vagifem for now. Even in post meno one must expect to get some bleeding and spotting after the Mirena is fitted but in post meno this should settle quite quickly and then no bleeding to worry about after that. Don't be anxious - it can be removed very easily if after 3-6 months you really don't feel good - I bet you'll be OK though.
Take some Ibuprofen before the Mirena is fitted and have a little lie down for an hour afterwords at home - you should be fine by the evening - I was.
DG xxx
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I've had my very first Estradot patch on 12 days today and so far haven't taken any Utrogestan, I am post meno but was planning to take it vaginally on a cycle so that I don't have to take it orally every day as I'm worried about side effects and getting more concerned reading everyone's troubles with it :o. Anyway I know I have to start the Utrogestan very soon but how long can I actually go with the Estradot (oestrogen only) as the thing is I am trying to work it out as we have a big holiday coming up and will be away for most of May, now to avoid any bleeding on holiday and to avoid also being on the Utrogestan on holiday it would mean I need to wait until about day 20 of this cycle to begin taking it (instead of starting on day 15) and then the following 2 cycles would be 20 aswell. Basically it's going to be a squash to get 3 cycles in before the first week in May. The way I have it sort of planned at the moment would mean taking the last Utro on April 29th so I have my bleed and be finished it before we leave on May 8th and as we are not home until May 29th I won't want to start the utro again until at least then??? This is assuming after all of this that I tolerate it well enough :-\ Would it be ok to not take Utro for a full month?? And when should I start this month? I'm day 15 on Thursday 11th Feb but I want to wait until Feb 16th or even a few days later than this would be even better if it's safe to do so. I am so confused with all of this and really worrying myself about leaving a massive gap of no Utro. I'd really appreciate some help and advice please on what is best way forward or is there another way that I haven't thought about that you 'professionals' can advise? Sorry I feel really dim regarding all of this! Incidentally I had a heavy breakthrough bleed 2 weeks ago just before i changed from femseven to Estradot. I've been feeling absolutely fantastic on the Estradot only... such a shame I have to take the Utro lol!
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Thank you dancing girl....I will definitely give the Mirena a go.
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My issues with Utrogestan are not typical, I think most women do extremely well on Utro and in fact if it hadn't been for the problematic bleeding I would definitely have stuck with it and I may try it again in time. I always say that when trying any HRT preparation one should not expect or look for problems - too often women seem so anxious and blame HRT for every twinge, ache, pain, headache. palpitation etc. - I do think one needs to focus on the positive, enjoy the benefits (which are often many) and not expect to feel good every day as this is unrealistic.
Stellajane has given good advice - when I was in my 40s and using Oestrogel with a synthetic progesterone I simply started the 10 days of progesterone on the first day of each month - if I had something important going on when my bleed was due I just moved my starting day either forwards or backwards by a few days. Good luck Dg x
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I see Dr Annie Evans I use utrogestin 7 days a month days 21-27 and I am fine, I don't look at the side effects as we can " make " them happen.
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Tinkerbell I see the utro gave you vivid dreams that woke you lots...it knocked me out for fhe first 4/5 days then I started to wake more with lots of dreams. I only take it for 7 days and the last 2 after ive stopped it ive been getting this...constant dreams and keep waking but I'm not even on it now! Do you think it's as it's still in my system? Did it stop for you straight away or take a few days to calm down? Thx
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That's interesting do you think its the same vaginally as I get worried some hangs around longer up there. My last dose was on the night if the 7th last month my bleed came on 12th so hopefully this horrid sleep will pass soon 😁😴x
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I've had my very first Estradot patch on 12 days today and so far haven't taken any Utrogestan, I am post meno but was planning to take it vaginally on a cycle so that I don't have to take it orally every day as I'm worried about side effects and getting more concerned reading everyone's troubles with it :o. Anyway I know I have to start the Utrogestan very soon but how long can I actually go with the Estradot (oestrogen only) as the thing is I am trying to work it out as we have a big holiday coming up and will be away for most of May, now to avoid any bleeding on holiday and to avoid also being on the Utrogestan on holiday it would mean I need to wait until about day 20 of this cycle to begin taking it (instead of starting on day 15) and then the following 2 cycles would be 20 aswell. Basically it's going to be a squash to get 3 cycles in before the first week in May. The way I have it sort of planned at the moment would mean taking the last Utro on April 29th so I have my bleed and be finished it before we leave on May 8th and as we are not home until May 29th I won't want to start the utro again until at least then??? This is assuming after all of this that I tolerate it well enough :-\ Would it be ok to not take Utro for a full month?? And when should I start this month? I'm day 15 on Thursday 11th Feb but I want to wait until Feb 16th or even a few days later than this would be even better if it's safe to do so. I am so confused with all of this and really worrying myself about leaving a massive gap of no Utro. I'd really appreciate some help and advice please on what is best way forward or is there another way that I haven't thought about that you 'professionals' can advise? Sorry I feel really dim regarding all of this! Incidentally I had a heavy breakthrough bleed 2 weeks ago just before i changed from femseven to Estradot. I've been feeling absolutely fantastic on the Estradot only... such a shame I have to take the Utro lol!
Hi Goosieloosie
As Stellajane - I vary when I do my Utro according to what I'm doing. less so now as I am on a two-monthly cycle so do approx the 1st of every other month and this seems to fit in with when I'm away, festivals I go to etc. When I was doing a shorter cycle I used to work out the whole year of when I was taking it so varied my cycle from 5 - 8 weeks (I do know how my womb lining responds by now so know it's OK!). For the longer gaps I would use the utro for more days - and less for 5 week cycles.
Hurdity x
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That's interesting do you think its the same vaginally as I get worried some hangs around longer up there. My last dose was on the night if the 7th last month my bleed came on 12th so hopefully this horrid sleep will pass soon 😁😴x
It depends how your quickly your body responds to the fall in progesterone. It will start to drop in your system very soon after the missed dose. According to the product info the elimination half-life is max approx 20 hours. This means roughly that the levels in your system will be reduced by half in that time. I sometimes start to bleed the next day following the missed dose so my body usually responds very quickly - and I use it vaginally. Other times I've waited a couple of days so it's not consistent! Never more than 2-3 though :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity!
I think the disturbed sleep is the progesterone dropping away, my sleep is really sensitive to any fluctuations especially prog owing to my intolerance. This is very similar to the sleep I got before my natural period which is when prog would have been dropping. That 20 hours would make a lot of sense as it's been noticeably worse from then on should even out in the next few days when my bleed starts..I do find every month is different which makes it tricky!
Nx
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Hi Niamh
Same here. I am only 4 days into the combi tabs on Femoston 2/10. But last night I had some brown spotting, and had dreadful insomnia and this morning I am having a withdrawal bleed, mid packet. And I'm back to feeling anxious and tearful, after 10 days of feeling great.
This shouldn't even be my 'own' period breaking through, as my Femoston is synchronised to my own cycle (I started it on same day as my natural period started back at Xmas).
But I have noticed these last few months, I can never sleep the night before my bleed is due.
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GRL - If you are peri meno then your own hormones will be fluctuating so I'm afraid you can't know when and if your cycle is happening in the background!! If you have had a surge of your own oestrogen then this might cause the breakthrough bleeding. This is the tough thing with the peri stage and mood swings etc are often inevitable. All one can hope is that the HRT will help to control these fluctuations along the way. Dg x
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Hi DG
It certainly could be my own hormones buggering about in the background. But I think any oestrogen surge I had was last week, when my own oestrogen was rising, as I felt almost stoned as I was that relaxed and dreamy. But I don't believe I actually ovulated in the end, as I had no egg white mucus etc.
I think I am reacting (again) to the synthetic progesterone in Femoston. And I don't know if that gets any better through time?
I have certainly felt really good and just like my old self on the oestrogen only tabs of 2/10 though.
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I'm now changing to evorel conti. Is 100 mg more that 170 mcg of progesterone?
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Hello English rose
Evorel conti only comes in 50, not 100.
Here it was evorel conti is:
Transdermal estradiol 50mcg & transdermal norethisterone 170 mcg
So it is a combined patch with 50mcg oestrogen and 170mcg of progesterone
Hope that helps :)
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Hello. Thank you. So 170mcg is less the 100 mg? As I have been taking 100 mg of urogesteran every day so using the evorel conti will be less progesterone every day?
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Well tonight is the night!! I start taking the Utrogestan for the very first time, I've decided to use it vagially 2 x 100mg for 12 days. I must admit I'm feeling a bit nervous! I've been absolutely fine & felt great using Oestrogen only (Estradot patch) that it seems such a shame to have to take any type of progesterone!! :o Anyhoo, wish me luck and i will let you know how it goes as I never had much luck with the synthetic progestins :(
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Well tonight is the night!! I start taking the Utrogestan for the very first time, I've decided to use it vagially 2 x 100mg for 12 days. I must admit I'm feeling a bit nervous! I've been absolutely fine & felt great using Oestrogen only (Estradot patch) that it seems such a shame to have to take any type of progesterone!! :o Anyhoo, wish me luck and i will let you know how it goes as I never had much luck with the synthetic progestins :(
I only use 100mg vaginally and I feel it has quite a kick. Is there some reason you need 2 x 100mg vaginally? Just concerned you may not be able to tolerate 200mg vaginally if you are sensitive .
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200mg is the licensed dosage so one shouldn't deviate from this unless you are under the supervision of a gynae.
Goosieloosie - dont' look for problems - you may well be fine. DG x
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Sorry if this has probably been already answered somewhere on the forum, I haven't managed to track it down yet. I saw the lovely Dr Annie Evans a couple of weeks ago for the first time. She prescribed 1g sachet of estradiol and 100mg utro daily continuous. Its just that just about everyone only takes the utro for 7-10 days and I keep wondering why she would have put me on continuous.
Just wondered if anyone had any ideas please!
I'm 2/3 years post meno 55yr
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Hello. Thank you. So 170mcg is less the 100 mg? As I have been taking 100 mg of urogesteran every day so using the evorel conti will be less progesterone every day?
The doses are not comparable EnglishRose. Utrogestan is progesterone and breaks down quickly in the system so you need a higher dose. With the synthetic progestogens much lower doses are needed because they are more stable. You also can't compare what you take orally with patch progestogens because of some being lost to digestion when taken orally. The doses are worked out through trials, to do the same job - ie keep the womb lining thin. It's a bit of a crude measure and sometimes it is too little or too much for some women - but no need to worry about it!
Hurdity x :)
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Sorry if this has probably been already answered somewhere on the forum, I haven't managed to track it down yet. I saw the lovely Dr Annie Evans a couple of weeks ago for the first time. She prescribed 1g sachet of estradiol and 100mg utro daily continuous. Its just that just about everyone only takes the utro for 7-10 days and I keep wondering why she would have put me on continuous.
Just wondered if anyone had any ideas please!
I'm 2/3 years post meno 55yr
No - not just about everyone newbeginnings! The members on here who do so, opt to take utrogestan on a cycle because they either don't like or are very sensitive to progesterone/progesterone intolerant. In the normal way of things you should take the prescribed dose! If you are post-menopausal then continuous combined (no bleed) HRT is the usual regime. There can be spotting and bleeding to start with and this can go on for up to 6 months (not all the time!) and eventually you should not bleed at all. Some women don't (bleed) anyway and it depends how long post-menopausal you are, and how long your body has been without oestrogen? Try it and see how you get on! Good luck!
Hurdity x :)
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Thanks hurdity for very helpful reply. I seem to be fine on this regime
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Well, I have been on the Oestrogel 2 pumps per day for the last 14 days and I fell amazing! The last time I remember feeling this good was about 10 years ago, so it's definitely the best HRT I have tried so far. I read somewhere it's the champagne of HRT! and that sounds right for me. Can't believe I managed to persuade my local NHS doctor to prescribe it. She game me a prescription for 1 pump pack and a repeat for another which I can get as soon as I run out. Does anyone know how many pump packs they will give me in 1 go? Will it be 3? I am also on the Utro 2 x 100mg days 15 to 26. Meant to be starting that soon, am quite nervous as I am prog intolerant! Will report back with my experience soon!
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Hi. I've just found this thread and hoping it is the right place to post. I'm currently on utrogestan 200mg for 12 days and Sandrena 1mg gel. I tried the uterogestan vaginally but the side effects were the same as orally and it made me very itchy and my pelvic girdle pain was a lot worse. I have been so desperate for more oestrogen (I really don't get on with progesterone) as, although I don't suffer with flushes much, I get lots of other symptoms of low oestrogen (since August I have have had a really hoarse voice - checked out and my cords are dry and not meeting properly so I'm now on the list for voice therapy). So I have been trying 2 mg of gel off my own bat but think this may be too much (my voice is no better yet but I do feel quite edgy at times). My question is, has anyone here got experience of moving from sandrena to estero gel? Has it been easier to apply (sandrena takes about an hour to stop being sticky so I can get dressed!)? Does it provide more relief from symptoms than sandrena? Is it worth a try? What is the most estero gel and least uterogestan I could ask for? I'd like to start at the very highest dose and then work down. I hope someone can help as I have been feeling far too awful for far too long now.
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Hi. I've just found this thread and hoping it is the right place to post. I'm currently on utrogestan 200mg for 12 days and Sandrena 1mg gel. I tried the uterogestan vaginally but the side effects were the same as orally and it made me very itchy and my pelvic girdle pain was a lot worse. I have been so desperate for more oestrogen (I really don't get on with progesterone) as, although I don't suffer with flushes much, I get lots of other symptoms of low oestrogen (since August I have have had a really hoarse voice - checked out and my cords are dry and not meeting properly so I'm now on the list for voice therapy). So I have been trying 2 mg of gel off my own bat but think this may be too much (my voice is no better yet but I do feel quite edgy at times). My question is, has anyone here got experience of moving from sandrena to estero gel? Has it been easier to apply (sandrena takes about an hour to stop being sticky so I can get dressed!)? Does it provide more relief from symptoms than sandrena? Is it worth a try? What is the most estero gel and least uterogestan I could ask for? I'd like to start at the very highest dose and then work down. I hope someone can help as I have been feeling far too awful for far too long now.
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I have used Oestrogel for many years and it's great. You can use from one to 4 pumps per day and it dries in about 10 mins - I always applied it to my inner thighs. I do doubt that you actually need more oestrogen - it can take about 6 months for the full benefit of the oestrogen to take effect - the drying out due to oestrogen deficiency will naturally take longer. There are many women that believe they need higher doses of oestrogen but this can lead to more side effects with no real benefit - the edginess you are getting could be due to this over dosing so I'd go back to the one sachet per day. If you switch to Oestrogel then you will probably only need two pumps per day. HRT is not a cure all and I must caution you about experimenting with dosage without the guidance of your doctor. How long have you been using HRT?
I used to be a professional singer and I know that the vocal chords are delicate - speech therapy may well identify why you are hoarse and give you strategies to help with this - there are so many things that can damage the chords and cause problems. Do you steam over a hot saline solution regularly? Do you work in a hot dry office?
When you say you feel awful, what symptoms are you getting? DG x
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Well I thought I would update on how I am doing with the Utrogestan now that I am halfway through taking my very first course, I have now taken 6 doses out of 12 of 2 x 100mg vaginally and today I had a migraine :( albeit not a bad one, just lurking but I had to give in and take a triptan to shift it to be able to get on with my day. I haven't really noticed any other side effects, not really sure about the sleepiness as we've had a hectic weekend & I did over sleep the alarm this morning (which is unusual for me) but like I say we had a very late night over the weekend so it may be a knock on effect from that...I guess only time will tell. Oh I have noticed though that I have been itchy around my back passage area & it appears to be a bit red (I do have a small hemorrhoid there but it NEVER EVER gives me any bother so possibly the Utro is irritating it??) I have put some anusol cream on which has settled it down. Anyway sorry for TMI :o I am definitely weeing more on the Utro aswell but that's not bothering me.
So basically I am doing ok atm apart from slight migraine and irritation around the back door! BUT... still another 6 days left!!
I even drank quite a bit of prosecco at the weekend and had no headache or hangover ;)
I will keep you all updated, keeping everything crossed this works for me!
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Goosie, if I took 2 x 100mg of Utrogestan, I would get a silent migraine. You are the only other person I can come across on here who gets silent migraines, does it consist of a blind spot followed by 25 minutes of visual disturbance without the ensuing headache? I can only take 7 x 100mg vaginally each month maximum. This is the dose that Professor Studd gives to women who have migraines which are brought on my progesterone and women who are progesterone intolerant.
My migraines are only caused by synthetic progesterone and high doses of Utrogestan, nothing else, and I didn't have them during my reproductive years. I consulted migraine specialist Professor Anne MacGregor (an MM member kindly passed me her details) and she suggested I take 300mg of aspirin every day which I now do so you might want to give it a try.
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Goosie, if I took 2 x 100mg of Utrogestan, I would get a silent migraine. You are the only other person I can come across on here who gets silent migraines, does it consist of a blind spot followed by 25 minutes of visual disturbance without the ensuing headache? I can only take 7 x 100mg vaginally each month maximum. This is the dose that Professor Studd gives to women who have migraines which are brought on my progesterone and women who are progesterone intolerant.
My migraines are only caused by synthetic progesterone and high doses of Utrogestan, nothing else, and I didn't have them during my reproductive years. I consulted migraine specialist Professor Anne MacGregor (an MM member kindly passed me her details) and she suggested I take 300mg of aspirin every day which I now do so you might want to give it a try.
Hi Mary, Thanks for your reply. No I don't get any visual disturbance with my migraines, never have had that fortunately.I have been on Beta Blockers for over 2 years to try control my migraine but I've no idea how well they are actually working. Since I have been on HRT my migraines have been far less and when I was on the Estradot patch only for 20 days prior to this course of Utrogestan I didn't have one single migraine, Oestrogen is definitely what I need! This would make sense as my migraines did get far worse during the perimenopausal years (though at the time I didn't know this was the cause, if I had I certainly wouldn't have agreed to take Beta Blockers). I wouldn't want to take aspirin regularly as my stomach gets very easily irritated if I take too many Ibuprofen :(
I have 6 days left of Utrogestan to take, it will certainly be interesting to see what happens. Thanks again for your advice, I will keep you informed of how I'm doing :)
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Sorry Goosie, I misread your post, you said slight migraine not silent migraine. It looks like the Utrogestan is the culprit, progesterone is always the problem for women with migraines.
Let us know how you get on.
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With all treatments, I believe it is about weighing up the benefits against the side effects.
It is quite common to get a headache a few days into taking any progesterone - as long as it isn't too bad or lasts too long it's worth putting up with this if it's the only side effect you get. I always got a headache a few days before my bleed, whether it was my natural period, taking a BCP or HRT. I personally don't think it's reasonable to expect to feel good every day but it's better to weigh up the benefits of feeling good most of the time, with maybe a few days of feeling a bit off, as opposed to getting regular flushes, night sweats and constant headaches as I do when off HRT. Migraines are debilitating and horrible so if HRT makes these worse then the benefits are not outweighing the side effects.
Goosieloosie - do persevere with this regime - it is often the best option for many women and is considered the safest. Dg xxx
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Well it's day 2 of taking Utro for me and so far so good, no weird side effects so far. Probably a bit early to tell.
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Don't look for problems - many women feel so great on Utro they want to take it all the time. Dg x
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I started my 12 day course about 5 days later than I usually do as I just dont like the wired up lack of sleep feeling I get when on it, last night was night 1 and I slept like a log, so strange every mth the symptoms differ some months its insomnia and others its a good nights sleep.... ???
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Hi just wondering if any of you wise women has any ideas for me. I've been on 1mg sandrena and 100mg utrogel continuous for nearly 4 weeks now. At first all seemed fine. Now for the last week everything has gone seriously downhill. The anxiety and ibs have flared up I'm in constant pain with it, joint pain worsened, headaches, the lot.
I am considering dropping the utrogel to 7 days to see if it helps. Would this be ok to experiment with it?
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newbeginnings - I wouldn't tinker with things unless you have discussed it with your doctor first. It is very early days so I would continue for a while - it may not be the hormones causing these symptoms - it sounds more like a bit of a tummy bug - lots of things going round at the moment.
If you want to do a sequential regime then you would need to do 12 days of 200mg, which is the licensed dose, and this might be worse for the IBS - if you are seeing a specialist gynae, they might sanction a different dosage but you could get other side effects and problems if you experiment without advice and monitoring. At least taking 100mg daily you are not experiencing high and lows.
When I tried the Utro continuously I got a headache in the first few weeks but this settled down - you must expect some side effects in the early 3-6 months before things settle. DG x
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Thanks DG. I'm feeling pretty desperate at moment. Its def not a bug. Just clutching at straws really.
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Would it help if I took it vaginally?
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newbeginnings, are your taking the Utrogestan in this way in order to avoid having periods? I certainly wouldn't blame you if you were but when I tried to do this I failed miserably. Some women manage it very successfully but it depends on how well you tolerant progesterone. I always tolerated my own progesterone very well during my reproductive years and never had PMS or any period problems but unfortunately, although bio identical, Utrogestan is not the same and the dose is much higher than your own natural progesterone.
I struggled on for a about 5 weeks when I tried the continous combined Utrogestan/Oestrogel method but had headaches, a silent migraine and then had a period anyway about 5 weeks. I phoned Professor Studd's office and was told to stop using it in this way and to revert back to the 100mg Utrogestan vaginally for 7 days each month. If you take it vaginally, you can take less because most of it hits the womb and does not get lost in your digestive system and you will have fewer side effects like breast pain.
There has been much debate on the amount of Utrogestan that you need to take but if you need to take less, you can do so but it is wise to have a uterine scan after a few months to make sure you are clearing the lining. It is easy to arrange and many places offer it for about £100 - always arrange to have the scan just after a period. Yes, it will cost money but it is better than taking too much progesterone for years on end and you will know what your personal threshhold is.
You could try to get a scan on the NHS but I imagine it would be difficult. How well versed is your GP on Utrogestan?
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Hi Mary. I saw Dr Annie Evans a month ago. My GP had admitted he didn't know about utro etc. Yes that was the idea to avoid a bleed.
I have decided I will send an email to Dr A and see what she says. I guess I was just wondering how much you can "experiment" yourself as some people seem to. I've read that some women take the utro for 14 days or 7.
Thanks for setting it out so clearly with the info about the scans. Normally the cost would be manageable but my husband is currently at risk of redundancy and so not sure how we will be financially in months to come.
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Hi newbeginnings
It could be the utrogestan causing your digestive problems if you are taking it orally. These in turn can affect its absoprtion and limit its effectiveness in keeping your lining thin.
Vaginal use is recommended abroad for women who experience side effects from oral use - but as its not licensed in this country to be used in this way we have to do it unofficially and hopefully sanctioned by an enlightened GP.
If you feel OK on it generally then continuous use might be OK for you. There was some work done suggesting that half the dose vaginally could be used compared to oral and from memory (hazy) I think there was a limited study showing vaginal progesterone used on alternate days kept the lining thin on low dose oestrogen. However as Dancinggirl and Mary G say it is not wise to deviate from the recommended dose except under the guidance of a specialised gynae and in particular to ensure regular uterine scans, to avoid thickening and endometrial hyperplasia.
If you are worried about cost then maybe try as near to the licensed dose as possible eg 10 days vaginal use of 200 mg and see how you feel/bleed on that. Alternatively if you don't want a bleed, as you say you could use it vaginally 25 days out of 28 instead of orally but if you have a partner you might not like that idea ::)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity. I'm feeling so low at the moment with stomach pain/ibs particularly bad for the last week I feel I want to do something.
Maybe I could try it vaginally. Do you literally just insert it presumably as high as possible, and guessing when you go to bed? I am happily married but my sex life is just hugs these days!
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Yes that's it - just push it up there at bedtime - as far as you can! Know what you mean about the er hanky panky - not exactly as frequent as it was... ::)
Hurdity x
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Just thought I would update on how I am doing on my first course of Utrogestan.
I am now day 11 & feel absolutely fine! I can't say I've noticed any major side effects, on Monday Day 7 I was a bit worried as I had a very faint migraine & the next day on Day 8 I had a headache :( and I thought to myself "This is it, here we go" but you know since then I have had nothing, no more headaches, no sore boobs or the feeling that I was going to kill someone like when I was taking the synthetic progestins ::) Tomorrow night will be my last dose and then I await the bleed :'( I'm actually pretty scared of that to be honest :o
I also haven't experienced any breakthrough bleeding or spotting like I did on the synthetic conti regimes so thing are looking hopeful ;)
Btw I am using it vaginally for 12 days for those of you who don't know me.
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Great news Goosieloosie! I've lost track - sorry - is it 200 mg you're using or 100 mg and what's your oestrogen dose? I'm sure the bleed will be fine - hopefully no worse than period and hopefully lighter?
Hurdity x :)
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Great news Goosieloosie! I've lost track - sorry - is it 200 mg you're using or 100 mg and what's your oestrogen dose? I'm sure the bleed will be fine - hopefully no worse than period and hopefully lighter?
Hurdity x :)
Hi there, I'm using 200 mg (2 x 100) & a 50 Estradot patch. Should the bleed be lighter than a period though to ensure it's clearing out the womb lining?? I'm a bit confused as much as I would like a light bleed I would then worry the Utro wasn't doing it's job?
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If you are post-menopausal then it shouldn't be heavy at all - I use 200 mg vaginally for 12 days with a two month cycle on 50 mcg patch and still not as heavy as normal period but whenever I've had a scan it's always been OK. If you have a light bleed it means that the lining hadn't got thick enough because you've started on the highest dose of prog and used it vaginally so it will defo have got through I would say. Don't worry!! :)
Hurdity x
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Hi I am on day 8 of estrogel 2 pumps daily I am feeling better but still getting night sweats albeit not as bad can anyone tell me if this will take longer to go or do I need more...I'm 45 and peri for about 3 years xx
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Hi Keepgoing - early days yet - you should start to feel the full benefits after 4-8 weeks I expect. It takes time for the the oestrogen levels to build up. If after 2 months you are still getting bad flushes and night sweats then try increasing the dosage a bit. Dg x
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Thanks dancingirl I was thinking this just thought I would get another opinion as on hrt tabs the sweats were gone by now...al give it longer and see how I go xx
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I'm having increasingly bad stomach pains I've had ibs for years, but this has been constant for few months. It feels like I need a bowel movement badly but cant. Its not relieved by having one. I'm so so fed up with getting nowhere with GP. I'm worried its cancer. I'm going to see gp today at 5 again.
I've been on utrogestan one month could it be being worsened by the utrogestan?
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newbeginnnings -
IBS is a difficult one to control - do you suffer diarrhoea or constipation or both? It takes 3-6 months for any HRT regime to settle and make a real difference - are you doing sequential or continuous Utro?
My bowels actually settled down when taking Utro orally - I tried using it vaginally and it really effected my bowels badly and made me constipated and uncomfortable.
I did however get quite nasty period type cramps while on the Utro and this can be a problem on any progesterone. If you are using Utro continuously (as I tried) then cramping can be an issue. Using any HRT or medication will always be about the benefits versus the side effects and the positives have to outweigh the negatives.
Because I was getting nasty cramps, erratic bleeds and spotting, I took myself off the Oestrogel plus conti Utro 7 weeks ago to see how I felt. I am now really feeling the withdrawal symptoms e.g. flushes, night sweats and terrible fatigue. I am probably going to try the regime again but use a lower dose of gel and Utro sequentially (12days per month) to see if the bleeds and cramps are less on less oestrogen. WE are all different and I am now 60 so my uterus probably isn't functioning so well these days.
I would persevere fro a while longer to see if things settle. DG x
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Hello
I am new to HRT. I'm 53 and my last period was 3 years ago. I have just started applying 2 measures of Estrogel, 1x dose morning and 1x dose evening and I take 1x 100mg Utrogestin at night. I started using Vagifem a few weeks ago and I'm presently inserting 1 tab every other night before going on to the 2x weekly maintenance dose.
I was referred to for investigation for post menopausal bleeding last year and I was told I was due to vaginal atrophy. I was also having one bladder infection after another and this was explained as a typical symptom of oestrogen deficiency. I was subsequently referred to Endocrine Gynaecology at KCH because of these symptoms but when the consultant looked at my hospital records on the computer and saw the results of my first DEXA scan from 2 years ago which showed I had major osteopenia and was on the threshold of true osteoporosis, he strongly recommended systemic combined HRT and not just local HRT for VA. He also referred me for another DEXA scan which I had a couple of weeks ago. I won't find out what my T scores are until I see the consultant in a few weeks.
In the immediate term, I would like to see an improvement in my VA symptoms. The Vagifem has made a slight difference but nothing significant. I may well need to give it a couple more weeks but it seems to have reached a sort of plateau now. I've been on the combined regime for only 2 days so it's too soon to see any difference anyway. I don't want to have to have unrealistic expectations either.
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Hi and welcome to MM ajanee
You are clearly getting the right treatment at last - good HRT regime as well. The Vagifem should be used every night for at least the first two weeks and many of us use it 3 times a week after that. The Vagifem is such a low dose now and it used to 25 mg instead of the current 10mg!!! The systemic HRT will help your bones and also the bladder and UTI type symptoms - the Vagifem doesn't always penetrate fully in to the bladder.
The systemic combo of Oestrogel with Utro is great and this should really start to do it's magic in the next 2-6 months. As you have been so oestrogen deficient for so long it may take time for the body to adjust and welcome the hormones so you really feel the benefits - you've got to be patient I'm afraid.
With the gel and Utro combo you may get some early side effects e.g. bleeding or spotting, period cramps, sore breasts, strange tingling around your lady parts - my gynae describes this as the body "waking up" - these things should settle within 6 months.
I also use vaginal moisturisers that help to keep the vaginal area healthy and this reduces the risk of bacteria taking hold that can cause UTIs. I use Multi Gyn Actigel - a squirt on the end of my finger pushed up inside and around the outside after I've had my shower each night - it stings a bit to start with but is then very soothing. There are a variety of products to try - it's trial and error finding the stuff that suits you.
It's really good that they are addressing your bone density problems - they may advice additional treatments. You may have been told these things but I thought I should recommend you take Vitamin D3, magnesium, Omega 3 supplements and eat a chunk of hard cheese, some milk on your cereal plus a yogurt each day so you get enough calcium. Do lots of brisk walking as well.
Do keep posting and let us know how you get on. DG x
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Well I finished my 12 day course of Utro used vaginally 3 days ago & today my bleed began but oh my goodness I have felt dreadful yesterday & today, today far worse than I have felt for weeks, my mood has really plummeted :'(. Yesterday I had a headache all day that would not shift & ended up turning into a migraine & I felt dreadfully sick aswell. Today I have another headache that will not shift & feels like my head is in a vice & I have done nothing but cry at the slightest things today :'(. I feel so low & miserable today. I expected to feel like this on the Utrogestan last week (pmt) but I was absolutely fine. Is this progesterone withdrawal?? Will it get better as the week goes on as I felt great on the Oestrogen only, I hope I get back to that again ?? I hate feeling like this :'(
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That must surely be progesterone withdrawal. Poor you.
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Yes it sounds like it Goosieloosie - sorry to hear that. It used to affect me like that when I was on Cyclogest. This is classic pmt - if you are not progesterone intolerant then you shouldn't feel pmt while taking it - just as most of us during the 3rd week of our cycle usually feel nothing more than maybe a bit of bloating or breast pain sometimes. It is the few days before the period which is the main pmt bit of a normal period (for most women anyway - except the prog intolerant ones) - and this is the progesterone withdrawal phase when headaches/migraines are common, along with irritability, tension etc. Some women feel bad (during their cycle) when oestrogen drops as well - moodwise - but with HRT oestrogen is the same all the way through - although I think you are still peri-menopausal so your own hormones may be playing a part?
Also with me I found that if I had wine - and later any alcohol during the prog withdrawal part ie the days after stopping, that would be sure to bring on a migraine. Later I used to get one at any time during the progesterone phase and then especially if I had alcohol during the prog part and if I had wine late at night.
What is your bleed like - is it heavy or normal - like your usual periods when fertile?
You may need to modify the dose so that you can take less - see how your bleed goes first. As you are using it vaginally you should be able to get away with 100 mg but good ( though doesn't seem like it) to start with the licensed dose to see how you react first.
Hope you feel better soon :bighug:
Hurdity x
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Thanks for your reply Hurdity, No I am not perimenopausal, my last natural period was 19 months ago so I doubt I have any of my own hormones lurking lol!
My headache is still there as I type despite having taken regular paracetamol all day. I also haven't slept very well last 2 nights, fell asleep around 1 am and wide awake at 6 am :o .
I only began bleeding this morning so it may get heavier, at the moment it is lightish. It's such a shame as I felt great on the 200mg of Utro & even better on the Oestrogen only!
What sort of bleed should I expect before I decide to cut the Utrogestan dose down to 100mg?
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Thanks for your reply, DG.
I can't believe that GPs are so unhelpful when it comes to the menopause. I couldn't have a smear test 2 years ago because of the pain so the nurse wanted me to sign a disclaimer to opt out of the NHS screening programme which I refused. She said it was meno related. You'd think she would have mentioned local HRT.
After my first DEXA scan I was only offered Adcal D3 but the National Osteoporosis Society nurse told me it was unnecessary because I had plenty of calcium in my diet already. I was logging my diet on My Fitness Pal at the time. My GP's attitude was "well she's only a nurse so what does she know anyway?" I asked Dr Hamoda at KCH about this and he said that he would have said the same as the nurse, that supplements are only useful for people who don't have much Calcium in the diet, otherwise there is no advantage.
I had what seemed to be a lactose intolerance some years ago. Milk and anything with milk made me bowel incontinent and it all stopped when I switched to fortified soya products, always with added calcium and D3. I wanted to increase my calcium intake in my 30s to look after my bones. I didn't expect osteoporosis by this age though. I'll be seeing a gastroenterologist next month so I will find out if I have a genuine lactose intolerance or whether it's something else. I'm not sure that fortified foods are as good as natural sources.
I have quite a complicated medical history. I have ME/CFS which has been quite severe and I've been housebound in recent years so exercise is not an option and don't get as much sunlight either. I also have haemochromatosis, a hereditary iron overload disorder, which is another risk factor for osteoporosis. My sister also has haemochromatosis and she has osteopenia, so I obviously have a genetic predisposition to low bone density.
My GP never suggested HRT for my bone health. Dr Hamoda said it was the treatment of choice at my age, he mentioned "the window of opportunity" to start HRT and get the benefits. I'm quite pleased to have actually been able to see someone with this level of expertise. I'm actually appalled at the lack of information and treatment offered for women going through the menopause and beyond. I'm glad I found out quite early about my bones too. Just how many women are unaware that they could have low bone density? It's not until they have a fracture that they find out. DEXA scans on the NHS are like gold dust unless you have any obvious reason to have one.
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Ajanee,
lots of foods contain calcium, i'm sure you have already googled it but here is some info
http://www.ouh.nhs.uk/osteoporosis/documents/calcium-for-dairyfree.pdf
Its usually vitamin D3 that needs to be supplemented as many people have low levels, your GP should provide a blood test to evaluate this. Calcium carbonate supplements supplied by the NHS are usually from inorganic products (limestone and chalk) and research has shown that calcium supplements from organic sources like algae are safer and more effective. Unfortunately they are expensive. Calcium can usually be obtained from diet without need for supplementation.
I also have osteopenia and after reducing my oestrogen to one pump of oestrogel I found via a subsequent dexa scan that this was not enough oestrogen to maintain my bone density. I have had to up the dose of oestrogen to 3 pumps to protect my bones. When taking one pump I was not experiencing any meno symptoms and felt quite well but this was not enough to maintain my bone density.
I agree the NHS doesn't seem to prioritise meno or bone health.
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ajanee - hopefully now you are taking oestrogen this should help with ME/CFS because low oestrogen and testosterone can lead to some similar symptoms. Sorry to hear about all your problems but hopefully things will improve re your bones now you have started HRT.
Hurdity x
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Thanks for your replies. Meeka, I'm familiar with all the non dairy sources of calcium. My daily intake is well above the recommended daily intake according to MyFitnessPal but this has not protected my bones at all. I don't have my results of my recent DEXA scan. My previous scan showed that I was only one decimal point away from the diagnostic threshold for osteoporosis. My vitamin D levels have been measured twice since then, both times the tests were taken during winter, and both times my vitamin D levels were optimal. I don't have my most recent DEXA scan results but from I could see on the screen afterwards the numbers do not look good at all. Haemochromatosis is another complication. 66% of people diagnosed with haemochromatosis have osteopenia or osteoporosis according to the research, which isn't good.
Hurdity, thanks very much for your welcome. You seem to help a lot of people on this forum with your wide knowledge of all things menopause. As for ME/CFS I've had this condition since I was in my 20s. When my consultant asked me about symptoms like 'fatigue' I had to say that I have ME and because of that I don't live a 'normal' life like most women of my age, so I don't have any prior 'normal' to compare with. Fortunately he was ME aware and was understanding of its severity too. He said that HRT can't help with pre existing symptoms, so if my sleep was disordered before the peri/menopause for example, taking progesterone probably won't improve it.
Many conditions can have symptoms that can overlap with ME which makes it difficult for someone to recognise something else is going on besides ME. They will just feel "worse". Typically, treating the other condition is just that. The ME symptoms don't necessarily improve, but the person feels less "worse" when the other condition is treated or improves naturally. Of course I live in hope that HRT will improve my overall quality of life but I also know that realistically speaking it's probably not going to have all much impact on my ME symptoms.
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Can I just ask something on this thread please?
I've recently changed to estrogel from oral tablets.
Does anyone know how many pumps are in one of these canisters?
The GP I got my initial prescription from had no idea how many pumps a day a woman should have, clueless and admitted it, but he put 2 pumps per day on the label.
I've been using 3 pumps a day after reading up on here, and because it seemed to me that I wasn't getting enough oestrogen. (Quite rightly it seems, because I feel so much better since starting the gel at 3 pumps :great: so I'd be reluctant to reduce it to be honest)
My other GP who I saw yesterday and gave me a repeat prescription seemed to think I was on 2 pumps but I didn't correct her as it was said in passing, and am wondering now if I will have enough of the gel to last me until I'm allowed to ask for more.
Argh.
I hope she doesn't say I can't use 3 pumps. :-\ :-\
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My canister lasts me over 2 mths but I only use one and a half pumps....
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Well I have done 11 days now with my Utrogestan tablets and have just been taking 100mg orally at night. I am prog intolerant so can't bear the thought of taking 200mg (I am wary or using them vaginally as I suffer from weak bladder problems and don't want to make it any worse) . Although I might give it a go next month to see if it's ok this way for me. I feel quite good mood wise on these much better than on Femoston. Waiting to get my bleed at the beginning of next week and see how it goes. I've been getting stomach cramps but they are no where near as bad as on the other HRT tablets I have tried.
The first half of the month when I was just having the Oestrogel 2 pumps per day I felt amazing, can't remember feeling this good in years! I actually felt like I was in my 20's or something. Hoping I get this every month. Looking back I should have gone on this years ago, as I reckon my peri symptoms started about 4 years ago. But better late than never I say.
I will be due to go back to the Dr's next month to get my prescription renewed. Can anyone tell me how many months do they give you at a time 3 or 6 months?
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Targeting dreams that sounds very good! Have you been prescribed the 100mg of Utrogestan?
My GP seems to give me only 3 months worth of prescriptions at the moment
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Hi Trufflecat, no I was prescribed 200mg by my Dr, but luckily the chemist gave me 100mg x double the amount of boxes, as this was all they had in stock. I have read the messages about self medicating and taking less than you should, but decided to take 100mg as I don't think I could handle 200mg per day. I will see what my bleed is like and maybe talk to my Dr about a yearly scan. I am only with the NHS so not sure they will provide this. Hoping you feel better after finishing your Utro, that sounded bad.
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Hi
I'm looking for some advice please.
I am 48 years old and had my ovaries removed in 2014 due to severe PMS. Was prescribed anti depressants since 2009 for pms symptoms. I also had a fibroid and endometriosis under my belly button and on one ovary. I am also unable to tolerate progesterone in the merina coil and the everol conti patches.
I was prescribed livial due to feeling very anxious on the patches. My mood is up and down and still get hot sweats, night sweats and no energy. By sat I am very tired I sleep for 5 hrs during the day. I was thinking asking my dr about trying the estrogel and utrogestan.
Many thanks
Jenny
Ovary removal 2014
2 teenage daughters
A supportive husband of 23 years
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Hi cherub
Sorry to hear you are struggling. If you've had your ovaries removed then you will be depleted in oestrogen and possibly testosterone and this could account for your fatigue - unless you have thyroid problems or iron/vitamin deficiency? Sleeping for that long is not normal in the daytime and there is most likely to be a physiological explanation - it's a question of finding and treating it. Sounds like livial is not really working if you are getting these symptoms.
If you have endometriosis then you would have to take continuous progesterone - and I imagine this would have to be monitored if you do take HRT at all?
Are you able to ask to be referred to a specialist meno clinic in view of your history - ie ovary removal and endometriosis?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
Thanks for your reply. I was discharged from the menopause clinic and was told to just continue seeing my GP. His field is gynaecology.
It just seems to be at the end of the week I sleep for that long. My anti depressants were upped about a month ago as my mood went low and I was back to feeling very emotional. Thought I would be offered a different hrt but looking at what's available I don't think Ive got much choice if I'm intolerant to progesterone.
I had endometriosis at the time of the operation. Don't know about now.
When I had the appt with the gynaecologist prior to the OP nothing was discussed about hrt and I was so anxious as I was coming up to a period I wasn't completely with it. In fact I just burst into tears because she told me I could be worse as I would go straight into menopause. Which I realise it's just brought it forward rather than continuing how I was and then the menopause.
May be this is as good as it gets Hurdity for me.
Cherub x
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So if you have the urogestan for 10 or 12 days then you wouldn't need a scan but if you have it for only 7 days you would .....even if you have a bleed each month
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I thinkyou should have a scan annually if you are not taking it continuously....
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Thank you Cassie and StellaJane for answering my question from earlier, about how long a canister of estrogel lasts/how many pumps. :)
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Hello ladies, I am so fed up! and annoyed with myself really. I decided to take 100mg of Utro orally for the last 12 days of my cycle as I react badly to progesterone and didn't want to be feeling rough. Well lo and behold I stopped the Utro almost a week ago and I have no bleed!! I wished I'd taken 200mg now! or tried it vaginally. It did make me feel tired and dizzy though so not sure if I would have been able to stand 200mg. For the last 5 days I have been in agony with stomach cramps and it kept feeling like my period was going to start and then nothing. I had to take ibuprofen and paracetamol every 4 hours to cope with the pain. Lost a lot of sleep as the cramps are worse at night. For the last 2 days they seem to have eased off, so hopefully they will go away completely.
So now I am wondering if I am going to get a bleed this month or not? Obviously I didn't take enough Utro to sort this out. I am on 1.5 pumps of Oestrogel per day, and doing well on that. Just wish the bleed had happened would have been out of the way by now.
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Tangerinedreams - I can't remember your details - are you in late peri meno or post meno? If this was your first cycle on this regime, then your womb lining may not have built up enough so there probably wasn't enough lining to shed - this happened to me on my first cycle of gel and Utro. You may find you get a bleed next time.
With subsequent cycles I ended up getting very heavy and prolonged bleeds and also spotting when on the oestrogen only phase!!! You may do better using it vaginally but this can give other issues e.g. irritation of the bladder but many women get on with this very well. I also got quite bad cramps - I think the withdrawal bleed on HRT is different to our natural bleeds and is more likely to give cramps.
As you are using a relatively low dose of oestrogen, I would stick with the 100mg over 12 days but maybe try it vaginally - I think you may get a bleed next time. Some women don't get a bleed on a sequential regime with any HRT - I would't worry about the lack of bleed yet. DG x
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Thankyou for your reply DG, it was very reassuring to read. I would say I am in mid peri stage. I started on HRT about a year ago after getting the early symptoms and my periods started becomming erratic and changed in length and then I went 6 weeks without one a couple of times. I was on Femoston 1/10 before the Utro/Estrogel so had been getting regular bleeds.
I am going to try vaginally next month!
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I am perimenopausal and my consultant has changed me from evorel conti (3 week bleed at the moment) to oestrogel 2/3 pumps and urogestan for 7 days
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That's what I have just started on Englishrose. Fingers crossed!
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Why were you on a continual regeime when you are only in peri is baffling.
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It was the override my cycle but I have been bleeding for 3 weeks. I'm hoping this will be more successful
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So.... now I've switched to estrogel and utro I can join this thread :). Wanted to post my experience so far.
Was previously on estrogen cream and microgest( same as utro). Was feeling dreadful on that but now convinced my e dose was just too low. I did email Dr Curry who suggested that the cream may not be best way to get my estrogen, amoungst other things. This prompted me to go to GP and find a sympathetic doc who was happy to prescribe the estrogel and utro. Aannywayyyy.... I have been so much better. Not done a whole month on this new regime but already can feel the difference. Must thank Menopause Matters here and Dr Curry!!! Thank you!!!!!
Am taking estrogel 2 pumps per day and on exhaustion days a tiny bit more. Added in the utro vaginally at 100mg on day 19... bit low from that but then more or less ok after. Stopped on day 27. Felt fine for a bit then extreme energy crash plus very low/black mood. Withdrawal bleed slow to come but it came on 2nd day of stopping the utro. Bleed pretty light and relatively pain free! Next month i can try to preempt that and not plan much for the stopping utro stage.
I am amazed that it took me so long to try this higher dose of estrogen and my body seems to prefer the gel to the cream. Although I think I may have a bit of chloestasis ( my liver gets bit blocked and sore under upper right rib). this comes and goes depending on the dose of estrogen.I manage it with liver herbs. But gonna talk to my GP lady about this next time.
I've also noticed that if i just leave the gel to dry I don't seem to absorb that well. If i rub it in it works for me, which seems to be contrary to the instructions? I also don't put it on all in one dose- but spread application throughout the day and evening. I pump first dose into a small container and then again later in the day.
So Hurdity, if you're reading this... you wondered why I wasn't getting a bleed.. was it low estrogen or not enough prog? It would seem that my e dose was too low previously for a bleed to happen. All I needed was a bit more.
So.. all in all my experience so far is positive. I've felt some of those 'sweet spot' days i have read about on here. Some days feel so good! And the odd not so good is bearable compared to my big swings i was getting previously.
So my conclusion is that the estrogen dose must be high enough to counteract the peri swings as much as possible. Gone from 8 or 9 really horrendous days per month to 3 or 4 tricky ones. That's a win :)! Hoorah!
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I have always massaged my gel in well into alternate legs, in my humble opinion, it is the only way, it is 100% effective....
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Thanks for that Cassie. Yes- i recall reading on another forum that someone also found rubbing it in was best.
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Well I'm on oestrogen only part atm (Estradot 50 patch) and last 2 days I've felt so down, low mood & weepy. I'm so disappointed as last month (my first month on Estradot) I felt absolutely great, really euphoric in fact and I wasn't too bad on the 12 days of Utrogestan either (taken vaginally), I did have a really bad day with progesterone withdrawal 3 days after I finished the course of Utro but it only lasted a couple of days & then I was fine again but I noticed all of last week my mood going downhill even tho I'm on the estradot only. I'm due to start the Utrogestan again this Friday aswell. Is it possible that my body just gets used to the Oestrogen & that it has settled down after the sudden rush at the beginning that made me feel good maybe?? :-\ Or do I need a higher dose? I'm 54 & post meno. Or can I just expect days like this? It's just atm I feel like I did before any HRT at all as I didn't have hot flushes, it was more my mood, irritability & lack of sleeping that prompted me onto HRT. So fed up :'(
Also I'm not sure whether to take the 200mg 12 days of utro vaginally again or go down to 100mg? I was fine on it apart from being a bit itchy & had a decent bleed after (heavy for 2 days then light) but did have really bad withdrawal for 2 days after finishing the course? Should I stick to 200 for this month or try 100?? I must add I've done 20 days of Estradot only instead of 16 just to work it into an upcoming holiday. So confused :-\
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I can't offer any advice as I'm new to estrogel/utrogestan combo, just wanted to send support and say you sound a bit like me Goosie, like I was. I felt down and couldn't understand why.
I was constantly analysing how I was feeling and trying to make sense of it, regarding my hormone levels I mean. It wears you out, you have my sympathies you really do. It is all very confusing, I agree.
Luckily I've had my oestrogen upped (I'm using 3 pumps of estrogel) and since then I've felt like 'me' again. I just hope it remains that way! :D
BTW, I too am tinkering with the length of time I'm using oestrogen this cycle as we are going on a big holiday to LA, Vegas and San Francisco so the last thing I need is using utro at that time! I'm putting it back by 3 weeks :great:
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Goosieloosie - to be absolutely honest, I don't think we can expect HRT to totally help with low mood as there are so many factors involved. Clovie makes a good point - often we over think things and also expect too much too soon.
You really haven't given things a proper go yet - you really need to give any HRT at least 3months before deciding to change - chopping and changing won't solve problems but may actually create more problems. Utrogestan can have a calming effect for SOME women so if after 3months on this regime and the up and downs are severe, then you could try using it continuously - so 25 out of 28 days per month and that would be 100mg Utro daily.
Generally it's the oestrogen that will bring the energy and lift we all want but it takes time to build up and settle.
Be patient and give things more time. DG x
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Professor Studd told me to rub my gel in well!
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I can't offer any advice as I'm new to estrogel/utrogestan combo, just wanted to send support and say you sound a bit like me Goosie, like I was. I felt down and couldn't understand why.
I was constantly analysing how I was feeling and trying to make sense of it, regarding my hormone levels I mean. It wears you out, you have my sympathies you really do. It is all very confusing, I agree.
Luckily I've had my oestrogen upped (I'm using 3 pumps of estrogel) and since then I've felt like 'me' again. I just hope it remains that way! :D
BTW, I too am tinkering with the length of time I'm using oestrogen this cycle as we are going on a big holiday to LA, Vegas and San Francisco so the last thing I need is using utro at that time! I'm putting it back by 3 weeks :great:
Thank you Clovie,yes it does wear you out,I was feeling so good and now I feel so low again and yes Dancinggirl you are absolutely right we expect HRT to cure all!! If only! Altogether I have been on HRT for 5 months now & I am still trying to get it right & it does get you down. My moods have been all over the place & faffing on with patches and inserting Utro & having a bleed gets to be a nuisance....doesn't seem 5 mins since I stopped using it and it's almost back around...well it would be already if I was taking it on time but I've put it off until Friday due to the holiday.
Clovie that is exactly where we are going on holiday !!! ;D (well not the San Fran part!) but we are doing LA (beach) and Vegas for 3 weeks in May and even though I should be super happy and excited I'm not :( & I hate myself for feeling this way, I have alot going on at home though with family atm which doesn't help, I don't do too well with stress & anxiety these days either :'(. When are you off on your hols? I hope you too get yourself sorted, have a fab holiday and that our HRT works wonders for us when we're in that lovely hot sunshine :o :) take care :)
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Clovie that is exactly where we are going on holiday !!! ;D (well not the San Fran part!) but we are doing LA (beach) and Vegas for 3 weeks in May
Goosie - Wow! No way! How spooky!! ;D
We go on our holiday this Friday!!! :o :o :o
Never ventured over that side of the US before, it has been a nightmare to plan, but should be fun - and I'm sure it will be a darned sight better now that I have my hormones sorted and I actually feel like going now! :banana:
Don't worry Goosie, 2 months back I felt like you do, I wasn't bothered about going on my holiday either. You've got a bit of time to get your hormones tweaked so that you'll hopefully be sorted and looking forward to your holiday too! :) :sunny: )
Take care x
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Clovie that is exactly where we are going on holiday !!! ;D (well not the San Fran part!) but we are doing LA (beach) and Vegas for 3 weeks in May
Goosie - Wow! No way! How spooky!! ;D
We go on our holiday this Friday!!! :o :o :o
Never ventured over that side of the US before, it has been a nightmare to plan, but should be fun - and I'm sure it will be a darned sight better now that I have my hormones sorted and I actually feel like going now! :banana:
Don't worry Goosie, 2 months back I felt like you do, I wasn't bothered about going on my holiday either. You've got a bit of time to get your hormones tweaked so that you'll hopefully be sorted and looking forward to your holiday too! :) :sunny: )
Take care x
Oh my goodness Friday!! How fab! I am putting the Utrogestan back each month by 5 days until the holiday so that I have the dreaded bleed out of the way before we go and I don't plan on taking any more Utro until we get home! Have a fantastic time and tell us all about it when you get back ;D
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I saw a consultant privately last week as previously I'd been given norethisterone as the progesterone to go with Evorel 50 and it made me very ill. After reading this thread I asked for Utrogestan, he gave me a private prescription for 200mg.
The pharmacist rang and asked if I wanted tablets or vaginal pessaries so I asked for pessaries after reading it reduces side effects. I've just read the leaflet and it doesn't mention their use as HRT it's only instructions for fertility. Have I been given the correct medication? Is it just not mentioning HRT as only the oral Utrogestan is now prescribed for HRT? Also do you think 12 days at 200mg is a high dose and should it be 100 when used vaginally?
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I am starting my 7 days of urogesteran 100 tonight
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lisa789 - Utrogestan is supposed to be used vaginally for fertility treatment and it is licensed to be used orally for HRT. In other countries it is used both ways for HRT use. I believe it is the same capsules used for both oral and vaginal. 200mg for 12 days is still the licensed dose whether used orally or vaginally. I would seek the advice of your gynae if you want to use the lower dose. The balance of oestrogen to progesterone is very important, so using a lower dose for fewer days may not ensure a proper shedding of the womb lining.
Hopefully EnglishRose is under supervision of a doctor with her regime, as using 100mg Utrogestan for only 7 days could cause problematic bleeding - I'm sure she will be getting regular scans.
I would use the prescribed dose your gynae has given you. DG x
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Under a gynaecologist. Due for a scan end of April
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Thanks DancingGirl I'm going to try the 200mg and see how I get on, surely it can't be any worse than the norethisterone. Haven't felt as ill as that made me in a long time xx
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Ah Goosieloosie- feeling like you today! I got excited on my higher dose of etrogel and my swings weren't as bad until.. just before the withdrawal bleed and then last night (day 4- the bleed had stopped)- and bam!- the most awful swing down into the abyss- crying and exhaustion. Am on the floor today! Argghhh!!!!!!
Is there a way to avoid the crash before and after a bleed I wonder? I thought on my higher dose of 1.5- or 1.75 that I could avoid it or at least minimize it.
Have also noticed on the higher dose that i have gained a bit of weight and digestive system is struggling.
Maybe I need to try continuous again?
I bloomin hate this! Can't function properly. :(
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Hi catlike - I'm not sure what crash you are talking about - but if you are taking estrogel every day then your oestrogen levels are fairly constant - unless you have your own hormones going on in the background - but as you say with a high dose you won't dip down very far. You will still get the progesterone withdrawal symptoms before your bleed though so this could be partly what you are noticing, which is normal pms?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
Yes the prog withdrawal before the bleed I understand. But when my bleed finished I got another one on day 4- last night and into today!
I had this previously before hrt. Always a very low day after my period. Perhaps it's just as you say, my own hormones are still in a cycle.... so when period is finished both the hormones are low anyway- so the e dose is just not strong enough to counteract the dip down? Still in peri land and not fully into meno? Who knows? I'm coming out of it now but it's been a horrible 24 hours. Maybe i need to increase a bit more on those really low days? Up to 3 pumps? I'm only allowing myself to go up to approx 1.75mg at present. Well that's what I took yesterday (the extra in the eve) and it had zero affect.
Have a phone appointment on Friday with my GP lady who prescribed for me so will see what she says.
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Am wondering now.. if i were to be brave enough to stop all the hrt for a while and see what happens.
Is it possible that by taking the hrt in cyclic way that I am keeping myself in peri? In other words- if I stopped and let my body do it's thing and was prepared to give it a bit of time maybe then if i went back on again the swings may have levelled out- or rather my own rhythm may have flat lined a bit more? So in other words- is it possible that by taking the hrt in cyclic way that i am stalling my own menopause? Hmmm?? 8)
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catlike - HRT won't be stopping the gradual decline of your hormones as you move through peri meno - it is meant to help alleviate the fluctuations but I don't think it always helps. I do think it can be worth taking a break from HRt now and again, if for no other reason than to see how you feel without HRT. It would give you the opportunity to see where you are in your meno journey - you could talk this through with your GP or a nurse and ask if you could have a blood test done to see what your hormone levels are after 4 weeks off HRT. You can then reassess the situation and either start fresh or give yourself more time without HRT.
I am very post meno but I am doing a break from HRT at the moment to see if I can cope. I'm having some ups and downs - headaches being my worst symptom - but it is good to have this break. If I do go back on systemic HRT it will be for good reasons as I don't really want to be taking anything. DG x
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Hello
Just got my oestrogel and utogestan ;D
I read somewhere that progesterone depletes estrogen so I was thinking of taking 2 pumps on the oestrogen only days and 3 or 4 with progesterone. My Dr said give it a go and see what works.
Anyone else trying a varied estrogel dosage on a regular basis rather than reactive?
Thanks
Rx
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Thank you Dancinggirl. I am thinking of giving it a break.... but so nervous re what might come back.. like the 8 day headaches etc, which you say is one of your symptoms too!
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Thanks stellajane, let me know how you get in and I will report back too
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Three days on Estrogel, started with 2 pumps but had more night hot flushes and head ache so dropped down to one pump on second night. Had 2 days of feeling weepy and anxious. I was thinking this isnt what i expected though I know i have to give it more time. But now i am on on a full bleed which explains the anxiety I guess, but i shouldnt be for another 2 weeks. Question is now when do I start the progesterone vaginally which i was supposed to start tomorrow? I will ring the meno clinic on Monday but it usually takes a couple of days to respond. Any advice please? I don't know whether to just stop everything for a month and see what happens.
Thanks x
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Hi Ruthae
If you were taking the prog cyclically then I would wait til 2nd half of cycle. Count bleed as day 1. Am not knowledgeable re adding in the prog sooner- but i would think if taking it on conti basis then wait til bleed has finished?
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ruthae - I assume you are peri meno? In the peri stage it is best to start on the lower dose as your own hormones will still be having an influence. Starting with 2 pumps per day could have given your oestrogen levels a big boost and may have triggered the bleed???!! The womb lining can build up too much in the peri stage which can cause erratic and problematic bleeding. Perhaps try using one pump per day for the first 2 months and just an extra half a pump when using the Utrogestan if absolutely necessary. You may not need the extra gel with Utro if you are still producing quite a bit of oestrogen yourself - although this will probably be fluctuating. To get a controlled bleed, I would try taking Utro orally at 200mg every night for 12 days starting on the day you are supposed to (so tomorrow) - you may not get that much of a bleed after you have finished this Utro stage as you are already bleeding but it may help to get your cycle in sync. You could then try using Utro vaginally next month and this way you can tell which way you prefer. Some prefer using it orally as it can have a calming effect and help with sleep (I feel quite euphoric) - I found that using it vaginally made me feel uncomfortable - we are all different so what works for one won't work for another. It could take a few months to get a regular cycle going depending on how far into peri you are. DG x
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Thanks Catlike and DG
Yes am still peri I think, had irregular cycle for 15 months then no periods for 4 before starting on HRT.
Started me on 2 pumps because I had been on higher oestrogen dose of Prempac, then Ellesste, then Femostan... But maybe I have been over dosing on oestrogen when I have taken it without progesterone??? All so confusing like one of those balls into holes puzzles, which is what mad e me wonder about justvstopping to see what was natural symptoms and what was HRT. I have some other stuff going on to and am seeing Councellor for that but don't we all, this is life. But it seems a bit daft not to take the stuff that has taken me so long to get.
Confused, will sleep on it...
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When I was peri meno, I was put on quite a high dose of HRT and got side effects e.g. headaches. When I was reassessed by a meno clinic, they then put me on one pump of gel each day with 10 days of progesterone each month that worked really well for some years till I was into post meno. DG x
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That is interesting DG, thanks for explaining. I'll give that a go. Feel so much better now I am bleeding.... weird isn't it....
Rx
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On day 5 of 7 days urogesteran and feel fine. Much better than on continuous. Have put on 1/2 stone in 3 months. Anyone else had this experience?
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On day 5 of 7 days urogesteran and feel fine. Much better than on continuous. Have put on 1/2 stone in 3 months. Anyone else had this experience?
Yes I have, I have put on exactly half a stone since the end of November, I know this exactly as I had been dieting and lost 2 stone, I am now struggling to get that half stone off again, I know Christmas was in the middle & I had steared off slightly but I have been healthy eating since January & I'm really struggling with that half stone :(
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I think progestogens are well known to cause some bloating/fluid retention. I always weigh myself after the utro has left my system! If you are on continuous utro (or any prog) then I presume this can be a permanent side effect?
Hurdity x
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I've put on a whole stone since starting just oestrogen in September so god knows what will happen with progesterone! I needed to put weight on though. Took first utrogestan last night and had a headache all day! It will be going up tonight the DH has offered to place it!
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Just posting an update. I have been seen for my voice issue by the ENT bods and it seems to be a combination of hormones and "functional dysphonia" with a bit of my Ehlers Danlos syndrome chucked into the mix. The edginess and anxiety following upping my Sandrena to 2 mg stopped after I decided to split the dose (1mg in the morning and 1 mg in the evening). During the progesterone part of the cycle my voice almost goes completely and by the second week of Sandrena only it is normal again. I feel better than in about 8 years. I actually have a libido again (loss of libido was my very first peri symptom about 10 years ago and was what took me to the dr to start HRT), my energy levels are climbing and I feel like me (I thrive on a certain level of edginess so am more than happy with the level of nerviness I have now). I was asked by. The menopause clinic nurse to have my bloods taken so went back to 1mg for a few days beforehand and the results showed me at about 240 which may be in the normal range but obviously not normal for me as I was feeling pretty flat during those 1mg days. I guess we all feel normal on different blood oestrogen levels. I will be talking this through with my menopause clinic nurse later this month and, if she is not happy to keep me on 2mg Sandrena and 200mg Utrogestan for days 1-12 of the month, I will seek a private consultation with Prof Studd. Anyone else out there that needs to tick along on a high oestrogen? If so, how is it panning out for you and do you adjust up and down through the month?
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rachelFD - all very interesting. I am personally in no doubt the effect of oestrogen deficiency has an effect on many areas of our body. Everything tends to dry out so our skin, throat, nasal passages - all mucous membranes become more sensitive and prone to reacting to irritants etc. The loss of muscle strength is also an issue when looking at problems with the voice. I have been a professional singer so I know the diaphragm and other muscles play a big part in supporting the voice and, again, the lack of oestrogen reduces muscle and tends to increase fat - fat is no good for the voice. I assume you have been advised to seek the advice of a speech therapist - if not I would strongly recommend this.
Since coming off HRT 2 months ago I have even had a re-emergence of my bad stomach acid issues so have needed PPIs again.
You don't say how old you are but if you are still in your 50s then I expect the 2 sachets of Sandrena is probably the right dose for you anyway - 240 level of oestrogen is quite low and my gynae wanted me at 600!!!!
I wouldn't waste you money by going privately - just stick with the regime you have found and in about 3-6 months things will be even more improved.
You could switch to Oestrogel instead of Sandrena (i much prefer it) - I think it is slightly easier to use and has more flexibility - you could start with just 2 pumps per day which is probably be about 1.5 sachets of the Sandrena, so you could adjust until you find the right balance for you. Dg x
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Stellajane, in a word, no.
It took me a while to realise that oestrogen acts like a control centre for so many vital functions and if you take it away, it wreaks havoc on just about everything. I am so glad that I had a dodgy thermostat which prompted me to take HRT otherwise I might have just carried on with oestrogen deprivation and heaven knows what I would be facing now.
Much more needs to be written about this and it really is time for the medical profession to wake up and realise the huge implications and the far reaching health problems that women face if they do not replace their oestrogen levels.
This "suck it up" attitude to the menopause really doesn't cut it in this day and age and this is a problem that is so easily fixed with the right advice.
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True Mary. Plus it is so cheap to fix! Much cheaper than all the things that oestrogen depletion and any hormone imbalance causes.
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Stellajane - I noticed a drop in voice pitch when I came off the pill - As a 1st alto/2nd soprano voice, I only used to get to a bottom G on a good day - I can do an F comfortably now. I will be joining the Tenors soon ;D
HRT seems to have stablilised it. I was a bit worried I might be losing my top notes.
There are a lot of older sopranos around, but they do seem to lose tone. You need younger ones in the choir to balance it out. It does not seem to be a problem with the lower voices, though.
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28 days on Estrogel & Utrogestan concerns about bleeding
I've been on combined continuous HRT for 4 weeks exactly. I'm 53 and 3 years post menopausal. I was investigated last year for postmenopausal bleeding and was told it was due to oestrogen deficiency and vaginal atrophy. I had TV ultrasound, endometrium and ovaries as expected post menopause, no polyps, no fibroids, nothing abnormal, smear test showed no abnormal cells, and cells had atrophic pattern.
I was referred to the postmenopause clinic but it was a 6 months wait and I received no treatment in the interim period. I bled very easily with the slightest impact, including smears of blood on the Replens applicator I tried, so I just left that part of the body alone and gave up on the Replens. It wasn't doing anything for my VA anyway.
I've been on Vagifem for 8 weeks, starting off with the 2 week load and so on, but again, smears of blood on the applicator now and then. It didn't help that much with the dryness, I felt sort of "sticky" rather than moist, so I could tell it wasn't addressing the VA particularly well.
For the past 4 weeks I've been on 2 doses of Estrogel daily and 1x 100mg Utrogestan at night. I have been prescribed continuous Utrogestan, no breaks, and I have never missed a dose. I haven't missed a dose or been late with the Estrogel whatsoever. I've taken everything exactly as prescribed.
After beginning Vagifem I started using a panty liner because I had a whitish discharge no secretions at all for a few years. I sometimes wondered whether I had a very slight yellowish tint and I wondered could it possibly be a tiny bit of blood especially as I'd sometimes have a slight blood smear on the Vagifem applicator but I couldn't be sure. In any case I realised that VA isn't going to disappear overnight.
Combined HRT was interesting. Within a few days my labia minora became enlarged and painful, and felt very raw. I saw the Nurse Practitioner at the GPs surgery. She said I looked very dry and sore and prescribed an aqueous cream to use as a soap and moisturiser and an antifungal cream. She also took a swab but it was negative for candida etc so I don't think it was caused by infection. It has settled but the edges of my labia minora are still very sore even though I have used the antifungal cream for over 2 weeks. I'm not as bizarrely swollen as I was. I'm inclined to believe that this was triggered by the HRT and my tissues being shocked into action after years of having nothing to do.
After 4 weeks on full HRT, my vagina now feels moist and a lot like it did pre-menopause but I also seem to have some streaks of blood coming from the vagina today. Yesterday I had what looked like a slightly blood stained discharge and I had some definite streaks of blood when checking internally for the source of any bleeding.
Obviously I'm concerned. I believed that if the VA had been addressed by full HRT then any bleeding caused by fragile tissues would be less of a problem, not more. I've never noticed streaks of blood before, not actually evident on loo paper after going to the toilet, as happened today. Checking my HRT leaflets it also seems that unscheduled bleeding can occur in the early months of combined HRT so that's yet another concern, but how would I know whether it's VA or not? I have no way of knowing. I don't suppose anyone does.
I'm seeing my endocrine gynae consultant this week so I'm fortunate that it's coinciding with my appointment. When I told him about smears of blood on the Replens applicator etc he wasn't bothered in the slightest. I was told at my appointment in July when I had TV US, smear, etc, that I was given the all clear for 6 months yet it took 6 months to start treatment, so I have no idea whether I should worry.
Similar experiences of PMB would be welcome.
Thanks.
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Hi and welcome to MM anais
Pleased to hear that you are getting the right treatment at last. VA is very unpleasant and is far more common than one might imagine - sadly due to women's embarrassment.
You are not alone in having worries about HRt treatment - there have been so many scare stories and the leaflets don't really give good information. Spotting and some bleeding is very common with any HRT treatment but the continuous HRT treatment will give some erratic spotting/bleeding for some months, so I wouldn't worry at this stage. The blood you are getting now will be from the uterus as it adjusts to the HRT - basically the progesterone is stopping your womb lining from building up. If after 6 months you are still getting spotting then get this checked out - they may tweak the dosage or how you use this HRT regime. The recovery of all your 'lady bits' will take at least 6 months so do expect things to be sensitive in the mean time.
Don't worry about slight discharge either, again this is quite normal and should be slightly yellow in colour. Whilst Replens can be helpful, many of us find that vaginal gels like Multi Gyn Actigel or Hyalofemme can be better - a good squirt of one of these on the end of the finger and pushed up inside and around the outside after a shower each day can help to keep things lubricated, soothed and healthy - do try using these alongside all your other treatment.
Hopefully you will get other benefits from using systemic HRT - it is now known that 5 years of HRT in our 50s can protect your heart and bones in the long term. Even when you eventually stop systemic HRT, it will probably be wise to continue with Vagifem in the long term and possibly for the rest of your life. DG x
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Thanks for your reply Dancinggirl
The full HRT was prescribed specifically for osteoporosis as I have low bone density. The consultant put the case very strongly and gave me printed information so I could make my own decision, so here I am.
PMB is such a cause for anxiety. On one hand we read that it's abnormal and you should see your doctor ASAP, which I did and was referred for investigation on a 2WW referral last July. I was told my scan results then and there. The endometrial thickness was something like 2mm. The smear test was torture, or rather the speculum was sheer agony and they had to find a small one for me too, but the result came back normal, cells showed atrophic pattern (no surprises there) and repeat in 5 years. The consultant who did the investigations referred me to the postmenopause clinic. I had a cystitis infection at the time too, so that was also explained as a symptom of oestrogen deficiency.
I'm not that bothered about the discharge as I see it as a sign that my tissues are responding to the hormones and the swab taken by the nurse was clear. My "lady bits" became enlarged with painful swellings all along the edges of the labia minora, it's been three weeks now and although the swelling has gone down a lot the painful 'edges' are still sore and the edges feel raw in places with a sort of gritty in texture. That all started within the first week of HRT. It seems to be almost gone some days only to flare up by the evening. I don't know if this is a consequence of chucking hormones at atrophy/dryness and the cells waking up with a shock. I doubt very much it was thrush especially with a clear swab. Another one to raise with the consultant, I think.
I really don't know what to make of the bleeding. How long does it take for the symptoms of VA to settle after HRT? Before HRT I think I must have been very dry inside but in after 3-4 weeks on full HRT the difference is amazing. But surely this wound prevent bleeding on a impact? Or does that take time?
Just as an observation I found it strange that I had these blood streaks after 4 weeks, which ties in with the typical menstrual cycle even though I don't have them any more.
I suppose I'll just wait for my appointment and raise all my concerns on the day, but appointments don't always go as planed sometimes. I'll be armed with a list!
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anais - I'm afraid you must expect there to be more that just blood streaks - most of us will get some proper bleeding( like a period) in the first few weeks or even months on HRT - I doubt your streaks are just to do with the fragile skin due to atrophy. My gynae describes the effects of HRT as "the body waking up" so one must expect some strange aches, pains and the whole of our 'lady bits' will plump up again. The grittiness and soreness you are describing is typical for VA and it will take some months for the hormones to work their magic. You may well have some low grade thrush or bacterial vaginitis as this is also common in menopause , even if using HRT; this is due to the flora being out of balance because there aren't the natural secretions to keep things healthy. The vaginal moisturising gels I mentioned before will really help with this - I'm afraid doctors don't know about Multi Gyn Actigel or Hyalofemme and rarely suggest extra lubrication with HRT but I've always found I need it and I'm not alone. You are clearly getting good advice and the right treatment so I would try to relax and not worry and let the hormones do their magic - you will probably feel great in 3-6 months as it can take time to truly work.
Dg x
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Hi anais
I agree with Dancinggirl - you should expect some bleeding for up to 6 months when starting continuous combined HRT if your body has been starved of oestrogen - and as you are being treated for atrophy your tissues should have thickened up by now to the extent that they are less fragile (but also depends what you are doing - eg re intimacy - which can be regarded as a form of trauma to an atrophied vagina!).
Yes PMB is a worry - but in your case - the first bleeding was due to VA, and the second bleeding due to the HRT. Any bleeding while on the early months continuous combined HRT would not be referred to as PMB and subject to a speedy referral - since it is normal. The fact that your lining was 2 mm showed that it was atrophied. You may continue to get some streaking/bleeding if you absorb the gel really well - and you might find that 100 mg progesterone is not quite enough. Only time will tell. Are you taking it orally?
As Dancinggirl says - try not to worry - but do note down what happens over the course of the next few months, and how you feel and hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised :)
Hurdity x
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hi ladies,
for 18 months i have been taking estrogel (one pump and a half) and utrogestan 100 mg (vaginally) in a sequential way - utro for 8 days every 4 weeks - because i cannot tolerate progesterone.
I have noticed that some of my symptoms have returned. I have 4-5 hot flushes a day, but i can live with them, insomnia (i hate) and very low libido, though i don't suffer from vaginal dryness, low mood and some anxiety. The last time i checked the womb lining four months ago, it was thin (3 mm.)
Now i am tempted to increase the dosage of estrogel to see if it makes any difference.
Is it normal for our bodies to develop a tolerance for estrogen and require more? I feel that the amount of estrogel i use is no longer effective.
What is your experience?
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At first i was on 1 pump a day, without utrogestan and felt very good. But when my lining became a bit too thick, i had to add utrogestan, despite my jntolerance. That's when i increased the dose of estrogel. It worked for about a year, but now some symptoms are back.
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Thanks a lot! it's reassuring to know one can increase the dose of estrogel. On the current dose i don't even get a bleed.
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foreign body, it could be that you have now completely stopped producing your own oestrogen and you need more gel.
I take 1 pump of gel every 12 hours to get an even dose and it works well so you could give it a try. If that doesn't work for you, perhaps you can increased to 3 pumps everyday.
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Dancinggirl and Hurdity, thanks for your helpful replies.
You'll have to bear with me, I'm completely new to HRT so I don't know what is "normal" and to be expected, or not. When I read the posts here everyone seems au fait with all the different HRT regimes and symptoms, but when I first joined it was all like a foreign language to me. I know we're all different here. We've all got different medical histories and some of us have other conditions too, some peri, some premature and some postmenopausal and we all have different symptoms and priorities.
An update:
I saw the consultant today. He wasn't all that bothered by the streaks of blood. He has advised me to repeat the 2 week reload with the Vagifem and continue inserting one every other day indefinitely. Nobody said I might have bleeding on HRT, so I wasn't to know it might be "normal" to get a bit of bleeding. I reported it anyway. He rechecked my TV US scan and smear result and didn't think there was cause for concern at this stage.
Sex? What's that? Lol! I'm afraid for now it's impossible due to VA and probably what they call "introital stenosis". Or born-again virgin syndrome, as I call it. I think I'm going to have to get one of those dilator sets to train myself once the HRT builds up. But I'm not ready for that yet.
My DEXA scan shows I have lost bone density in the two years since my last scan, so I've gone from "major osteopenia" to a diagnosis of osteoporosis. Not good at 53, hence the reason why he was recommending systemic HRT. He feels that I could gain some bone density on HRT but it's a very slow process, he says.
He also ordered a blood test to check my oestrogen levels now that I'm on full HRT, and also vitamin D. Previously my vitamin D levels were in the good range of normal but he recommends 800 to 1000 IU daily anyway. So I can do that no problem.
The consultant advised me to expect the external soreness etc to settle down with the HRT in time. The swab sample didn't show candida or BV. I'm confident that it's not an infection but I understand that the microflora is probably changing as a consequence of the HRT. If it doesn't settle I can always get another swab taken anyway. I used the anti fungal cream for over 2 weeks and it didn't cure it, and with a negative swab, I doubt it's thrush and I don't seem to have BV symptoms, but it is always a good idea to keep an open mind.
The breast and nipple tenderness that started in the first week has slowly settled down, almost back to nothing much at all.
So far I'm happy with my NHS treatment. The only problem was getting referred in the first place and the 6 month wait for my first appointment. If my oestrogen levels are lower than optimal he says he will write to me and advise me on whether to stay at 2x measures per day or increase to 3x, and he will also advise me on my vitamin D intake depending on the results but he's pretty keen on keeping my levels on the high-ish side. My dietary calcium intake is good, he's not advocating calcium supplements in my case, only vitamin D. I'm on 100mg Utrogestan at night. I take it orally. I know some people take it internally but for now I'll take it orally because I don't want to change anything. It makes it easier to know what works and what doesn't as I'm getting used to the regime. I might try inserting it later on, maybe after the first 6 months of doing it as prescribed.
The consultant wants to see me in 4 months time so I'll just carry on with the current regime, as he prescribed. If he advises 3x measures per day, I'll do that. If not, it's business as usual. I'm increasing the Vagifem as advised as of today. So, let's see if that improves the VA and other local symptoms like the soreness and swelling. I was very dry on the outside even after 6 weeks on Vagifem. My bladder is doing much better now anyway, which is a relief.
Thank you, everyone. I am a newbie so I came here pretty clueless about all of this. :o
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Good luck anais. This forum is a marvel isn't it? I only started on HRT to improve my appalling and worsening moods, but until I looked on here I had never even heard of VA, which sounds just awful and which I am very keen to avoid. I hope yours improves soon.
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Hi anais
Thanks for your detailed update and so glad that you are receiving good treatment. Yes as the others have said, we were all newbies once - and actually your updates are really clear so that those of us who reply are able to see exactly what's been going on :)
Stellajane - speak for yourself! I don't think anais said or even implied this! However your replies don't look bossy to me and nor do anyone else's so I don't think you need to worry on that score!
Anais - yes please do keep us posted - it is so important to be able to prevent osteoporosis and such a worry to be diagnosed with this at 53. This is one of the reasons many of us on here strongly advise women to take HRT - because we now spend so much of our lives post-menopause so osteoporosis has longer to develop even if we don'd develop it at your young age. Of course some women will never develop it - but you cannot know this can you - so better to try to prevent it if possible - and failing that to treat it as you are doing.
Hurdity x
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Anais - I can't post any links but along with a high level vitamin D supplement you need to consider vitamin K, manganese, magnesium and Boron. I am at risk of osteoporosis and my research revealed all of the above have a part to play as they interact with each other.
Pollie
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Thanks everyone for your replies.
Nobody was bossy, lol! When I first joined I didn't have a clue what people were on about with all these different HRT meds, and I wasn't expecting to have the full works prescribed by either. When I saw here that the Estrogel/Utrogestan combi seemed to be one of the best systemic HRT regimes, I was happy to find out that I had been prescribed it.
My consultant actually said the amount of oestrogen in Vagifem is so low – just like a lot of people on here are saying – that it's OK to take it every other day especially now I'm on Utrogestan. Some of you were on the 25mcg dose but obviously that's out of the question for newbies to HRT.
When I first mentioned the menopause to one of the GPs at the group practice when I was peri, she recommended magazines like Family Circle!!! I couldn't have a smear because of the pain when the nurse was using one of those metal speculums. She said it was due to menopause in her jolly hockeysticks voice. I had to abandon it because it was impossible because of the pain. Now, this nurse supposedly deals with HRT as one of her specialities. But did she mention HRT? No! Not a word! And as for the other GP, he would be starting me on bisphosphonates right now as I've now crossed the diagnostic threshold for osteoporosis. Did he mention HRT as an option 2 years ago? No! My consultant says I'm too young to start bisphosphonates because there is a limit to how long they can be used for, and HRT is the better option at 53 although bisphosphonates can be used later on.
I was ignorant of HRT because the media and many women say it is "bad" and best avoided unless the menopause symptoms are making your life hell. My hot flushes fizzled out after my last period, so obviously I thought HRT wasn't appropriate in my case.
But... osteoporosis/major osteopenia, one bladder infection after another, after another, after another etc, abandoning a smear test because of pain, you'd think one of them would have put two and two together. Or is it that they are too frightened to prescribe HRT these days? I had to have a referral for PMB on the 2 week wait pathway before HRT was even mentioned. That was the first time I was told about VA. And I even had yet another cystitis infection on the day and I was just about to go and pick up my antibiotics afterwards l! All I can say now is that I'm glad that the two doctors I saw on that day mentioned the possibility of HRT to help with all these symptoms, and referred me to the menopause clinic.
This forum is the best place online for all things menopause especially with information relevant to the UK. I am very, very fortunate to be able to see a good consultant at a very good NHS hospital, but this site is an absolute goldmine of information and the regulars are real stars, welcoming everyone and offering so much help. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
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Thanks for your kind words anais. As Stellajane says it is so rewarding to know that time spent on here sharing our limited experience and knowledge (because some of us are older and have been through it for longer) is helping other women :)
Hurdity x
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Ladies- I think I got it wrong!!
I've been trying to work out why I was not absorbing the Estrogel. Initially I thought it was working better for me to rub it in as that was what I was used to doing with the E cream. Anywaay- the other day i thought let's just try the 'smear and leave to dry' method and WOW... now it's working! I'm feeling really good- and I'm on the prog part of cycle too! My breasts are sore, but hey I'll take that any day over the low moods and energy.
So- just thought I should let y'all know. It's a breakthrough for me :). Although I don't want to get too excited just in case... but so far- last few days- all really good! And I am finding I need less of the gel too- one and half pumps is working fine for me.
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Darn it- I spoke to soon. Now on day 25 of cycle- with 7 days of prog at 100mg vaginally- with 1.5mg of gel today....I'm feeling dreadful with headache all day and no energy! So- perhaps it makes no difference whether I allow to dry or rub it in? I think my own E levels just fluctuate wildly regardless. :(
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I usually get a headache around days 7-9 when on any progesterone - it's just part of the cycle and usually passes in 24-48 hours. I'm afraid no HRT regime will be without some side effects. It is particularly important to eat small amount often avoid blood sugar lows, particularly on the Utrogesten phase, as low blood sugar can trigger the headache and fatigue. DG x
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Back to waking up every night since taking and finishing utrogestan?
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This mths Utrogestan is really making we wired up, feel like I have had an overdose of caffeine, very bad sleeping, palps etc just horrid, counting eagerly till day 12 is up
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Thanks DG. I do eat regularly so don't think it's a blood sugar issue. Yesterday was just total wipe out for me- very difficult to function like a normal human being! I didn't take the prog in eve as I knew I couldn't handle it. And yes maybe I will just stop it now- like you do Stellajane.
Things for me seem worse than ever- with the big drops going on- then ok for couple of days, in fact feeling great,- then bam another drop. Wonder if this is my own hormones last hurrah roller coaster ride before they level out? Gawd I hope so!
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Does anybody else find their experience of Utrogestan varies each time they use it?
For quite a few years now I've used Utrogestan 100mg x 12 nights, v-route, 6 or 7 weekly - progesterone intolerant so it's never good and a challenge to get through it.
Sometimes on days 1, 2 and 3, I feel energised and can get almost manic, doing things that I continually put off - eg. clearing out cupboards etc etc. Sedated and difficult to wake in the mornings though. Conversely, some mornings totally wired. Weird, complicated, exhausting dreams. Day 6 or 7 is always a turning point (cumulative effect of Utro in system) - things always start to go more downhill then - the degree by which this happens varies each time - can get a crippling monster migraine - or not. Sometimes I have a one night break if I feel particularly bad, then resume. This is new: after stopping I used to feel relief but now get a serious and hideous mood dip, worse depression - then after a very light withdrawal bleed and about 7 days later, feel a bit better.
Think we discussed on here before how the body can metabolise Utrogestan differently, depending on many other factors.
I will never fathom this hormone / HRT game! Exhausting trying to work out what one's biochemistry is going!
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Hi there yes mine can! I'm severely intolerant too so take for 7 days monthly v route and I find day 1/2 I get nausea and exhaustion. By day 4/5 pmt starts I'm very irritable depressed mood swings and by day 6/7 can't wait to stop! My sleep throughout is like you describe weird exhausting dreams which wake me often especially between 3-6am, I certainly don't find it makes me sleep well. Withdrawal can be nasty too but not always then bleed is fine and like you 7 days after stopping I'm ok again. I can get nasty insomnia on withdrawal too. Tbh though it does vary some months worse than others but it's always a mix of these things I hate the stuff!x
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Yeah that's how mine was night owl very Dissapointed really. The thing was my VA seem to dissappear and now its back?? Its a poor second for me at the moment had only just got settled on oestrogel and now feels like gone back. Will need 2 months to get over it! I have noticed bf though how when taking progesterone my VA got better? Anyone else notice this? And it's never got completely better just on oestrogen.
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I would definitely agree that the effects of Utrogestan vary each time I use it but generally speaking, the longer you use it, the worse it gets. Sometimes I get constipation, sometimes I don't and then some months I get weird dreams. It is never the same two months running except I always sleep very well and it does have a soothing effect on VA.
I have started rubbing my excess Oestrogel onto my upper, inner thighs and my VA (or irritation perhaps) has disappeared completely. It's a problem I've had for many years and not entirely menopause related in my case and it could be a coincidence but it's worked so I will stick with it. I did notice my last period was heavier though but again, it could be a coincidence.
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I'm only on my 2nd month of Utrogestan 200mg x 12 days vaginally, last month I had terrible withdrawal at the end of the 12 days, crying, depressed, irritated with everyone & everything but this month I barely noticed any difference at the end of the 12 days as I was actually dreading it but at least prepared to feel this way again,very confusing :-\ I have noticed however, that I do get the exhausting dreams, I actually had said to my husband that they wear me out & I wish I could switch my brain off! And I woke every morning at around 6am totally wide awake while on the Utro, normally if I wake this early, to say go to the toilet, I always manage to fall straight back to sleep again. I don't recall this happening last month either :-\. What does concern me though, and I'd like some advice here please, is the heavy bleeding at the end of the Utrogestan phase, both months I have had 2 very heavy crampy days and this month with clots, is this normal?? I am 54 & post meno by about a year & a half & really can't be doing with such nasty, heavy & painful bleeds >:( Anyone else suffer like this with heavy bleeds? Any idea why it's like this? Oh and I use a Estradot 50 patch.
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MaryG I got constipation! Why was it the other progesterones were no good? ? Lol
Willl try the thigh thing.
Goosie I hardly bled 3 very light days when I took some combined progesterone last year when I was trying different ones I had only had it 2 days and bled heavily and painfully for a week?
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MaryG I got constipation! Why was it the other progesterones were no good? ? Lol
Willl try the thigh thing.
Goosie I hardly bled 3 very light days when I took some combined progesterone last year when I was trying different ones I had only had it 2 days and bled heavily and painfully for a week?
Hi Kate, I was also on combined (patches) last year & I too bled heavily on & off the whole time I was on them, I'm really fed up with the heavy bleeding on utro, why can't I have a light bleed lol!! Anyone else have a heavy withdrawal bleed, any idea what I could do, maybe trying 100mg instead of 200??
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Yeah maybe try 100 I only take that can't imagine how shit I would be feeling if had had 200! I took a homeopathic Sepia țo put me right and get rid of lingering headaches I use to take it when i was younger.
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Goosieloosie, I take 100mg Utrogestan vaginally and get what I call a good bleed but it only lasts about 4 days and then goes away completely. Had the lining checked and it's fine (2mm straight after a period) so it's enough Utrogestan in my case. I agree with Kate50, why not try 100mg instead.
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Getting my lining checked next week. I only just remembered the Other day that when I had one of these a few years ago they said I had a small fibroid I wonder if it's grown now?
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Stellajane think i might have to do all mine vaginally next time I only did one day like that cos I just peed all day
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What does concern me though, and I'd like some advice here please, is the heavy bleeding at the end of the Utrogestan phase, both months I have had 2 very heavy crampy days and this month with clots, is this normal?? I am 54 & post meno by about a year & a half & really can't be doing with such nasty, heavy & painful bleeds >:( Anyone else suffer like this with heavy bleeds? Any idea why it's like this? Oh and I use a Estradot 50 patch.
GL, a while back, well in fact years ago, I experienced the same really awful painful proper period type pains and heavy bleeds - I recall feeling as if I was going to pass out, similar to what my natural periods had been like. Back then I was on 50 patch, then 75, 100 then back to 50 - finally reduced to 25 as I couldn't take it and needed to reduce the dose of progesterone as I'm intolerant. On 25 I hardly get any pain at all. For a long time I was on half of 25 and had zero pain and practically zero bleed.
We're all different - however I found more oestrogen = more painful withdrawal bleed. Over time if you find the pain/inconvenience unbearable, maybe you could consider 25 patch or 37.5. (I'm 53 and c.9 years post meno).
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I have noticed bf though how when taking progesterone my VA got better? Anyone else notice this? And it's never got completely better just on oestrogen.
Kate50, I find VA gets a bit worse (cactus like) when taking Utro and bladder irritated too - I do take it v-route though. I find the only thing that keeps the VA at bay is the Vagifem twice weekly - and sometimes use Vit E gel capsules internally or Carlson Vit E pessaries as an add-on.
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Just read about a lady who lives in Sweden who takes utrogestan 3 times a week along with her oestrogel and doesn't have a bleed. That's how its prescribed. Wouldn't that be better?
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Re; bone protection - I know that 2 pumps of gel per day is the recommended dose for good bone protection, however, I remember reading a study done that looked at the effectiveness of the ultra low Femoston and, if I remember rightly, this very low dose did reduce flushes (it took longer to be effective) but also showed some benefit for the bones as well. So - I think even a small amount of oestrogen is going to be better that none!!!! DG x
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How long do you find that Oestrogel takes to dry? I have no idea how big an area I am supposed to be smearing it over, but zi do one pump on each inner thigh and spread it along from knee upwards. 15 mins is a long time to be lying about with parted thighs!
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Rub it in as in gently massaging it dries instantaneously, I get into bed and rub my 1& a half pumps in until its absorbed thats it, no lying waiting for drying.....zzz.... :)
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Thanks. Looks like I need to rub it in more
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Has anyone experienced flu like symptoms from utro? I could be clutching at straws and coming down with something but I'm on day 6 of 7 and last evening felt flu like then woke lots last night with chills feel grotty this morning but could be as I'm shattered and can't do ill with 2 little boys! Anyway im sure I read about night chills and just wondered if it could be linked. I'm severely intolerant to prog but I don't normally get this?!? Thx X
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Yeah stellajane. Not happy with Studd Niamh he not replied?
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Hi Kate50 I'm sorry to hear that and really surprised he's not replied! Can you call his office and speak to his secretary she's lovely and always helpful. It's no excuse but I think he gets so many queries, so many patients he struggles to cope at times. I'd definitely chase I've had to before. Can we help? Is it re: the pm you sent me?
X
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Thx stellajane yep my 2 year old had a cold and was grotty last week so suspect it's that! Heh Ho x
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Sorry Kate another thought re:Studd are you still in your first 3 months?? I found if I contacted during that time he was very much keep going and you really need to give it time and then review with him at your 3 month appointment. I found after this if I emailed he was very responsive and helpful and has tweaked and advised me.....X
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Not noticed any flu like symptoms due to Utrogestan. I think your 2yo might be to blame!
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Hi Niamh
I wanted to ask about the return of my symptoms since taking and finishing the utrogestan. To me an explanation is suffice it helps put your mind at ease. He's suppose to be the expert? It's not gonna do his reputation any good. When he has replied in the past its been one line as if he couldn't be bothered to write it! I have just been to docs to get repeat prescription and I said about having used extra pumps of oestrogel as he advised and the need for vagifem and she said she can't do that without his say so?
I will e mail and tell him and see if he replies this time. It will be my fourth e mail. When I rang bf they said he would have to ring me back.
So that's it really. Your probably right about the 3 month thing though. That's beg May. So basically unless I pay for every conversation he not gonna talk to me? Lol! I can see the oestrogel takes a while to build up I get that but I'm not gonna take anymore utrogestan bf May so I know where I stand on that one. But can't wait till May to get him to say ok to doc for Vagifem .
AM a bit moany this morning it's all such hard work. Just found out I got wear and tear on a bone in my foot as well which has pissed me off as I like to walk my dogs everyday no supervet for me!
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Kaye, you might get a local NHS referral for orthotics for your foot. I did last year and it has made a huge difference to me, well worth trying.
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HI Trufflecat
I have one next week! That was the first of my checks no 2 is an ultrasound. Have been under podiatrist for a year with 2 insoles and got no where. Got some OA on big toe but that's not what they thought it was! That's extra!
Bloody hell just falling apart lol!
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Stellajane, I'll write up my story in the Personal Experiences section because looking back I'm astounded by the fact that it took a 2WW referral for PMB before anyone mentioned HRT.
It's been bad enough trying to communicate with the GP practice that I need a repeat prescription of Vagifem! As far as they were concerned Estrogel + Utrogestan = all that's necessary. Meanwhile the consultant has advised me to do another 2 week reload of Vagifem and use one every other day indefinitely. "We haven't received anything from your consultant yet" = I'm making it up! They didn't even see the need for me to have it repeated at the old dose, so it was a case of me having to ring the consultant's secretary to tell her all this because I'm just about to run out of Vagifem the day after tomorrow! Anyway, I'm told the prescription has now been issued and I dare say it will all be sorted out once the letter from the hospital reaches the GP. But honestly! Do they think I've been putting the Vagifem in my tea or something?
OK, on to my question and I'm sure it comes up a lot, but how do you apply your Estrogel?
Same place every day?
Dosage applied on both arms or legs every time?
Do you rotate the locations?
I take 1x pump in the morning and 1x pump at night.
I use half on one side, half on the other
I apply to both upper/outer arms a.m. and both inner thighs p.m.
However, I've read different things online.
One set of instructions says one arm only
One opinion is always use the same site because you build up a reservoir under the skin
One opinion says apply where you have body fat – but I'm a skinny bird
My leaflet says either thighs or outer arms and shoulders and do each side, but those instructions are for 2x pumps applied once a day. There are no diagrams and I always prefer pictures as I understand things better that way.
I don't know if the information I read online is out of date or just someone's own idea. I just want to know what other people do because I never feel sure if I'm doing it right. Thanks.
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anais - I have used Oestrogel for many, many years and it is very effective. Oestrogel is really easy to use - don't make things complicated. You simply apply it to either your inner thighs or upper arms and shoulders on clean dry skin, allow it to dry for about 10 mins and then dress. I have always preferred to apply it to my inner thighs; I squirt the gel on to the palm of my hand and smear it in a circular motion over my skin covering about 6 - 9 inches along my inner thigh. Depending on how much you use you can apply it either morning or before bed - up to 2 pumps at a time. If you eventually need to use 3-4 pumps per day then it is best to split the dose, so some in the morning and some at bedtime. So if you start with one pump per day for the first 2-3 weeks just apply to arms or legs either morning or evening but the same time each day - you don't need to rotate where you use the gel but there will be a general build up within your whole body of the oestrogen. I do think it is good to start on one pump per day and if symptoms are not reducing after 3-4 weeks, increase to 2 pumps per day for the next 4 weeks - this allows your body to gradually absorb and adjust to the oestrogen. If you increase too quickly you won't know what amount you really need.
This transdermal application is really good. Good luck Dg x
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Hi everyone, I started estrogel yesterday but am a bit in the dark as my GP is pretty clueless when it comes to all things peri/menopause even though she is a woman in her early 50s, and just goes by what I ask her for. I have contacted Dr Currie but am awaiting a response. Estradot 75 has not stopped the awful peri fluctuations which I can generally predict to the day! A blood test showed 383pmol of estradiol on day 26 of my cycle but I still have awful symptoms from days 5 - 14! Dr Currie suggested that I may not be absorbing sufficiently from the patch.
My question to all you ladies is should I start on 1 pump a day or should I go straight for 2-3 pumps to equate to the estradot dose.
The last 3 weeks have been really awful and I'm suffering dreadfully with anxiety which is something I have experienced previously during my peri years (5 now 😢) and I thought I was over the worst. Have been on sick leave this week as just unable to cope with work but am desperate to get back to 'my normal'!
Have been reading posts just to keep me going and get some reassurance xx
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Thankyou so much for taking the time to reply. I feel so anxious and down today after a better day yesterday so think this may be down to the smaller dose of gel. I will try 2 pumps tonight and pray that my emotions improve.
Estrogel feels like my last option as have tried everything else apart from a chemical menopause. I want it to work so badly.
This site has truly been a lifeline for me and has kept me going when it feels so hopeless.
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Hi
I've been on the gel/ Utro regime for 4 weeks now - starting with 1 pump of gel for a week then 1.5 whilst I took the Utro and now back to 1 again. Generally better on the Utro than other progesterones but had v. sore breasts since been off the Utro. I thought my bleed would start when Utro stopped 5 days ago - but though it feels like it should it hasn.t. So feeling really tired, and work has been stressful. Then Weds I started to go down hill, couldn't concentrate and yesterday I really hit rock bottom with anxiety - had to leave work and go to Dr. I couldn't stay in the waiting room as there was a baby screaming its lungs out and I started hyperventilating. Dr gave me betablocker type meds and said just stick with regime for another 2 months. Hoping this is just a blip... and that it will get better. I think I am still in peri so bound to be ups and downs I guess. I have meno clinic apt in a month so hopefull they will do some tests and adjust dose if it is still not settled.
Do you think I should stick with what Dr says or up dose to 2 pumps to see what happens...
Rx
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Hi
I think you should be on at least 2 pumps. I recently had utrogestan and didn't bleed much and it has left me feeling like the oestrogel isn't working! ?
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Niamh.... I have noticed that any form of prog moistens my sinuses and for me it can irritate my ears and make me sneeze. One of the reasons I now take vaginally.
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So relieved night 12 of Utro so can get some sleep again from tomm night hopefully so tired from sleeping so badly the past 12 nights..... ::)
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Thanks Kate50 will give it a try, is that the same whether you are peri or memo? Got to do something I feel awful my low :-\
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I increased to 2 pumps last night (gel only) woke up with headache but think that could be sinus infection, had very vivid anxiety dreams and I haven't remembered dreaming for ages. Will report back after a week when things have had chance to settle... Fingers crossed...
R x
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Stellajane, that's the regeime that I am on at the moment. My GP agreed to let me give it a go for 3 months. Half way through the second month now and feeling good, but no bleed as yet, so that may be a concern
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Stellajane I'm really interested in upping ostrogel whilst taking utro. I see Studd and I'm 2 pumps daily and 7 days of utro 100mg v route. I'm severely intolerant so feel dire by day 5 and from day 1 suffer with exhaustion vivid exhausting dreams nausea then comes the depression anxiety and irritability by day 4/5. I wonder if while I took it I upped to 3 pumps....do you stop the increased dose as soon as you stop the utro? I'm peri btw and 41 saw Studd for crippling pmt, prog intolerance, pnd etc
Thank you :) X
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Stellajane, I think too many women have been brainwashed into believing that HRT is bad and dangerous and any HRT regime must be cut to the barest minimum - this is all because of those wretched, outdated and dangerously flawed studies that need to be consigned to the bin, immediately.
I need loads of oestrogen to feel good and two pumps is the right dose for me, any less than that and I feel half baked and not quite there which is not a good feeling at all. It is only when you up your oestrogen dose to the right amount that you realise how inadequate low doses are.
I began taking DHEA tablets just over a year ago and I am now producing my own oestrogen again and that has helped - DHEA only works properly when used in conjunction with HRT.
The beauty of the gel and the reason it is so successful is because it is flexible and you can adjust the dose. It also delivers oestrogen into the blood stream very efficiently.
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MaryG where do you get your DHEA tablets from, would you recommend for peri?!?x
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Just a word of caution re: DHEA - do some research on using this - there can be some nasty side effects. I'm sure MaryG has informed Prof Studd she is using DHEA and he is monitoring the situation.
Many of our most powerful drugs are derived from natural or botanical sources and with easy access over the internet one can acquire things that may do harm. Professional advice is always the best route - do not self prescribe. DG x
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Niamh, I would definitely recommend daily DHEA tablets in both peri menopause and post menopause. I buy them online now but I originally bought them in Gibraltar in a pharmacy. I saw them on the display stand and asked the pharmacist about them and he highly recommended them for women and men saying his uncle reckoned they had changed his life so my partner takes them as well. We both take the 25mg version but it does come in higher doses.
My gynaecologist was baffled as to why my oestrogen blood levels are so high with only two pumps of Oestrogel and then realised I was producing my own oestrogen again because of the DHEA tablets - my DHEA blood reading was also back to pre menopause levels.
You certainly have nothing to lose by trying them, they certainly won't do you any harm.
Give it a try!
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Here are the side effects of DHEA:
DHEA is POSSIBLY SAFE for most people when used for just a few months. It can cause some side effects including acne, hair loss, stomach upset, and high blood pressure. Some women can have changes in menstrual cycle, facial hair growth, and a deeper voice after taking DHEA.
DHEA is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when used in larger amounts and long-term. Do not use DHEA in doses higher than 50-100 mg a day or for a long period of time. Using higher doses or long-term use of DHEA can increase the chance of side effects.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: DHEA is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when taken by mouth during pregnancy or breast-feeding. It can cause higher than normal levels of a male hormone called androgen. This might be harmful to the baby. Don't use DHEA if you are pregnant or breast-feeding.
Hormone-sensitive conditions such as breast cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, endometriosis, or uterine fibroids: DHEA is a hormone that can affect how estrogen works in the body. If you have any condition that might be made worse by exposure to estrogen, don't use DHEA.
Liver problems: DHEA might make liver problems worse. Don't use DHEA if you have liver problems.
Diabetes: DHEA can affect how insulin works in the body. If you have diabetes, monitor your blood sugar carefully if you are taking DHEA.
Depression and mood disorders: There is some concern that patients with a history of depression and bipolar disorder might have some mental side effects if they use DHEA. DHEA can cause mania (excitability and impulsiveness), irritability, and sexual inappropriateness in people with mood disorders. If you have a mood disorder, be sure to discuss DHEA with your healthcare provider before you start taking it. Also, pay attention to any changes in how you feel.
Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS): Taking DHEA might make this condition worse. Don't use DHEA if you have PCOS.
Cholesterol problems: DHEA might lower “good cholesterol†(high lipoprotein cholesterol, HDL). If your HDL level is already too low, discuss DHEA with your healthcare provider before you start taking it.
Another site to look at:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/dhea/safety/hrb-20059173
PLEASE, PLEASE BE AWARE OF THE RISKS OF DHEA BEFORE YOU TAKE IT - SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.
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I take 25mg DHEA everyday and haven't had any of those side effects - my cholesterol and blood pressure are normal and lower than they were a few years ago. My gynae. didn't tell me DHEA was highly dangerous and/or to stop taking it so I'm going to carry on with it.
To others reading this, it's up to you to decide on this one, I can only give my own personal experiences but apart from the dreaded periods, I can say I definitely feel better now than I have for many years, since I was about 30 in fact, so I must be doing something right.
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Thank you all for your comments. I have no intention of self prescribing anything, it's just useful to hear all of these things and gives me some things to discuss with Studd when I next see him.
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I first read about DHEA in this article which is why I was interested when I saw it in the pharmacy. You will see that fertility specialist Zita West takes DHEA with HRT. Dr. Currie is also in this article.
It also suggests women should start HRT as soon as their oestrogen levels drop and not wait too long.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2800760/should-women-hrt-menopause-experts-say-s-best-way-ease-symptoms-avoid-long-term-health-problems.html
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Brill thx I'll have a read x
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Interesting, I'd never heard of DHEA... What a steep learning curve the menopause is...
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My gynae (also a specialist in treating meno) did warn that the longer cycle will often result in erratic and problematic bleeding and if one does not do a good stint of progesterone - recent research has shown that 12-14 days is usually necessary but 10 days can often be fine - without sufficient progesterone then the chances of the womb lining not shedding properly is increased and this can result in problems - this is what happened to me when I tried a longer cycle, despite using a lowish dose of oestrogen and doing 14 days of 100mg. I had to increase to 200mg for 14 days to get a full shed and even then I got some spotting on and off during the oestrogen only phase!!!!.
Utro is not as powerful as the synthetic progesterones and though the spotting and odd bleeding is not a real issue, it is a nuisance. I had full scan and biopsies done because of the erratic bleeding and all was fine but essentially I think the lining can get into a habit of just breaking away because of the lack of progesterone treatment.
Studds 7 days per month regime should probably only be used with a 28 day cycle and of course regular scans done to ensure nothing sinister is developing. We are all different though and many women don't absorb oestrogen well so need a higher dose, which can also be an issue, and in peri our own hormones will be fluctuating. I do think it all depends on how well we absorb the progesterone and how effective it is in any one individual.
This is why I always try to be cautious about the advice I give - what works for me may well not work for another women. I have used HRT for nearly 25 years now and have tried just about everything going, I know that our bodies change and what works changes so I try to support other based on my own experience. I still think that each women should be under the supervision of a professional. Utrogestan may seem like the wonder hormone but it is not ideal in every case and how it is used will depend on many factors. Dg x
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Stellajane - you are clearly a classic case in point - you are being sensible in how you do the long cycle regime and I know Hurdity does the same. I think it's the tinkering with different doses and cycle lengths where one has to be careful. I think Studd has, and is, letting certain patients do long cycles with only 7 days of Utro but I'm sure he will be monitoring closely??!! DG x
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I can't comment as I'm 41 and see Studd he prescribes 7 days monthly for me and I get a good bleed no problems in between. He's not discussed scans with me yet but I have total faith he's not prescribing anything which risks my health. I can ask him when I see him about a view on this if it would be helpful?x
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Lol it sounds like heaven to me! Oh and it's not cheeky, I want to ask his view as I'd love to do a longer cycle so I want to hear his thoughts! Don't see him until July tho.....
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Just wanted to report a bit of my progress on the Gel/Utro regime. After taking a 2 month break from systemic HRT (still used Vagifem) I restarted using just one pump of Oestrogel for the first 18 days and then started the sequential Utro regime, using Utro vaginally. I had tried using it vaginally when I was using Utro on the conti basis but found it effected my bowels and I felt uncomfortable. I actually liked taking Utro orally - it made me feel really chilled and generally good - however I got erratic spotting which was a nuisance. So last night was my 3rd night using Utro vaginally and it is simply not going to work for me. The absorption systemically hits about 4 in the morning ( got up to pee and felt dizzy and sick and headachy and then couldn't get back to sleep) and my urethra is burning horribly. I feel so great on this low dose of gel - I just need to get the progesterone right - I am thinking I should try Provera which is possibly the only thing I haven't tried over the last 25 years of my battle with meno symptoms. DG x
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Thanks Stellajane - you always offer a good balanced view which is very helpful. I had really hoped I could use Utro vaginally as in many ways it can be ideal. I am sitting here with my whole vaginal area burning because of last nights dose - very uncomfortable. I don't know whether it's the progesterone or the casing that causes this burning - possibly a bit of both - I also had quite a lot of cramps yesterday evening and this was only at the end of the second day!!!
The problem about trying Provera is, I will probably have to see my private gynae first as my GP is following his instructions exactly re prescriptions because of my age. I know in my 40s I was using gel with Dydrogesterone for 10 days each month that worked really well - Dydrogesterone is only available in Femoston these days - don't know why they stopped doing this progesterone on it's own???
When I started back on HRT at the end of 2014, I did a long cycle with Utro 14 days every 6 weeks and I think this is what triggered the erratic spotting/bleeding which never seemed to settle regardless of how I used Utro. What I may well try is doing the licensed regime of 16 days gel and 12 days of Utro each month to see if that works for me - there must be a good reason this is what is recommended. If this doesn't work then I'll be back to my gynae for advice.
My experience really illustrates how different we are - I know other ladies have not done well on Utrogestan and have ended up using Provera - anyway, I'm going to take 200mg Utro orally for the next 9 nights and see what happens. I may also try using a bit more gel if I get night sweats. DG x
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I have had two cycles of oestrogel & 100 uro x7 and still have not had a bleed. I have also put on 9lb since starting hrt 6 months ago and it keeps coming!
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englishrose - sadly as we get older we simply have to eat less. I actually to put on more weight when not on HRT - I seem to gain around my hips and tummy, loose muscle strength and everything goes 'more saggy'. At least on HRT I have more energy, exercise more, so I'm generally fitter. However I have to avoid the sweet stuff as much as possible and do smaller portions of every meal.
My sister-in-law is doing the 5/2 diet (eat what you like for 5 days in a week and then eat next to nothing for 2 days!!) which seemed to work for her for a while but she is now gaining a lot around her mid section. I prefer to eat less generally and maybe 2 days a week have a wicked treat or two. I walk a great deal and my work involves walking and climbing stairs. It is still a struggle to keep the waistline - when I do really loose weight now it's only on the areas I'd like to keep some fat, it's never off my tummy :-\
Stellajane - It would be great if the licensed sequi regime resulted in little or no bleeding - we'll see!! Dg x
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Took 200mg dose of Utro orally last night. Slept really, really well which was fab. I did have vivid dreams, slightly sleepy this morning but that's OK - better than lying awake with a burning fanny. I definitely woke feeling very chilled and good!!!! The burning and lower tummy cramp (which I think was to do with my bladder being aggravated by the Utro used vaginally) has all gone. Clearly using it vaginally does not suit everyone. I did read a study somewhere that was done on vaginal use, it did say that many will get issues with bladder and bowels when using the Utro this way.
It will be interesting to see when the bleed starts and what it will be like.
Off for a brisk long walk with the dog now - a good nights sleep makes so much difference. Dg x
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DG, I would not survive on 200mg, the cumulative effect after a few days would be too much. I'm one of those who doesn't do well on Utrogestan 100mg - severe prog intolerance, so none are going to be good. Vag-route slightly more bearable but it does create other issues (bladder) - also just goes to show how it DOES get absorbed systemically and act onbrain/neurotransmitters when used vag.
You can't help wishing there was more scope. I'd also like to try the unattainable Dydrogesterone.
As mentioned on here many times before, it's always about looking for the 'least bad' progesterone option for the individual.
Re: Studd's 7 days per month for progesterone intolerant women - makes me think. There has to be something about the 'cumulative effect' that happens after this amount of usage? They must know from research that more than this creates more intolerance. I know in my experience, at around 7 days use is when the bad effects/depression really sets in.
Off to rummage around the net re: Dydrogesterone.
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Does anyone else find the Utro gives them very tender lumpy boobs....
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Yep, my boobs get tender when on the Utro, although this settled when I took it continuously. Taking 100mg daily was great for a while but I got itchy skin and started to get more spots on my face - these things plus the erratic bleeding have made me go back to trying the sequential way of using Utro. DG x
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I am getting older that is true but I think going from 8.7 to 9.2 in a short space of time is quite extreme. I do think it is the hrt
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I do think fluid retention can be more of an issue when on HRT - I definitely feel more 'plumped up' on HRT - slightly more rounded in the right areas instead of my tummy and mid drift as I tend to be when not on HRT. As I have had nearly 25 years of being both on and off HRT since my mid 30s, I really notice the differences - with all things there are compromises but as long as the benefits outweigh the risks and side effects then a few compromises are worth putting up with. I do think things settle though once the body adjusts to the hormones and I find it easier to exercise and watch what I eat when on HRT. When I'm off HRT I get horrible headaches and the lack of sleep makes me crave carbs so it's much tougher. Since going back on HRT 3 weeks ago, after a 2 month break, I am now able to really reduce the amount I'm eating - grabbing a handful of seeds between meals instead of a biscuit - a week of this has already produced results as my trousers are feeling a little less tight!!!! ;D
BTW - my second night of taking 200mg of Utrogestan orally was great. I woke at 6.30 am and dozed for an hour and felt really perky when I did get up - so much better than when I used it vaginally. Dg x
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Help just been prescribed this regime after 18 months of asking. I am on day 16 of a normal non hrt cycle. Haven't had hrt for 3 months. Last period was 2 weeks late for the first time ever! Usually regular. My dr said wait until next period then start with the oestrogen and take progesterone from day 15-26. I am so tempted to just start now. But should I wait? She did say of it looked like my period wasnt appearing on time just to start with the oestrogen and count that as day one. Probably a rhetorical question as I don't have the gel etc yet and prob wont get it til monday fro. My gp now! So excited really hope this finally works
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Tinkerbell I would wait if your still having a cycle but if it doesn't come on the day you expect then start then...I delayed taking utro this month cause I had a week off but my own cycle started one day after starting utro so I have had a longer bleed 😟 Xx
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My scan was ok but there may be pelvic venous congestion so I am to stop hrt until I have my next scan so will have to be looking at alternative options
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I can still use Vagifem so that's good so looking at other things I can do. Pelvic venous congestion is like varicose veins in your pelvis. Had it prior to children. I thought my pelvic pressure was being caused by it but they couldn't find it so tried the hrt route. It turned out it was hiding behind my inverted uterus. It may fade after menopause as it is 'fed' by oestrogen. My other problem is twitching pressure in my face which may be from clenching and I know have a clicking neck after physio which is making me miserable
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Has anyone tried using an extra pump of oestrogel in response to feeling pmt ish? If so, did it help and how many days did you do it for?
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Anyone else on this regime losing their hair, I'm hoping its just coincidence and due to peri it was gonna fall out anyway and maybe it will take time to grow back...I'm lucky I had very thick hair but I would say I have lost at least a third of it and my hairdresser says I have defo lost hair x
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Thank you to Dancinggirl for your reply to my "how to apply Estrogel" question. Apologies for not replying sooner, I haven't logged in for a wee while.
Just to update, my oestrogen levels were about 250-260 at one month after using Estrogel at 2x pumps per day so I seem to be absorbing it OK.
The downside is that my vitamin D levels were at a shockingly low 24; deficiency is less than 30 using the units that my hospital lab uses, I know there is another unit of measurement, but this was my result in "new money" (for those of us old enough to remember "old money" lol). But I was pretty shocked at this as my previous measurements were in the optimal range and as I have been prescribed HRT for osteoporosis it's not good news. I have been taking 800 IU daily as advised by my menopause consultant for the past 3-4 weeks but the doc I saw today for gastro probs suggested a high dose on prescription.
Just out of interest, I went to pick up my prescription today and was given "OEstrodose" instead of Estrogel. It's identical in composition and made by Besins, the same manufacturer as Estrogel. It's in a different shaped container, still with a pump and the same dosage, and the text on the outside is all in French with an English label stuck on. At first I wasn't sure about it, but none of the local pharmacies have the Estrogel UK brand, just this French/Euro OEstrodose, so I didn't have a choice.
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Thank you to Dancinggirl for your reply to my "how to apply Estrogel" question. Apologies for not replying sooner, I haven't logged in for a wee while.
Just to update, my oestrogen levels were about 250-260 at one month after using Estrogel at 2x pumps per day so I seem to be absorbing it OK.
The downside is that my vitamin D levels were at a shockingly low 24; deficiency is less than 30 using the units that my hospital lab uses, I know there is another unit of measurement, but this was my result in "new money" (for those of us old enough to remember "old money" lol). But I was pretty shocked at this as my previous measurements were in the optimal range and as I have been prescribed HRT for osteoporosis it's not good news. I have been taking 800 IU daily as advised by my menopause consultant for the past 3-4 weeks but the doc I saw today for gastro probs suggested a high dose on prescription.
Just out of interest, I went to pick up my prescription today and was given "OEstrodose" instead of Estrogel. It's identical in composition and made by Besins, the same manufacturer as Estrogel. It's in a different shaped container, still with a pump and the same dosage, and the text on the outside is all in French with an English label stuck on. At first I wasn't sure about it, but none of the local pharmacies have the Estrogel UK brand, just this French/Euro OEstrodose, so I didn't have a choice.
I had low vit D and had to take 3000 iu until it was back in the range. Some Docs recommend always taking 2000 iu a day to keep it at optimum level.
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Hi stellajane I noticed it more when showering lots of it came out and it's all over my head really. The hair under my arms and on my legs isn't growing as fast either. I had my thyroid checked in October before trying hrt and never noticed any hair loss before this, I have really lost quite a lot so think I will get it checked out. Thanks for your reply xx
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Hi Keepgoing
I've just joined the forum and posted about Androgenic hair loss tonight but under general health issues. I was started on Utrogestan 2 months ago and am experiencing hair loss on it. I'm also on Estradot patch 25mcg. I am convinced it is the Utrogestan that is causing it. I'm due to see a dermatologist/hair specialist in a week or so and will ask him if he can find any research on it and will post after I've seen him. I'm experiencing lots of hair shedding in the shower and despite already having female pattern hair loss this is much more than before.
I'm not saying you could have the same hair loss condition but I do think there is an issue for some women on Utrogestan, after blood tests to check hormone levels I'm pretty sure I will be coming off this asap. I was on Provera before but stopped due to joint pain but I would rather ache than lose more hair.
Hope this helps x
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Hi lil I'm not sure it's the utro I'm thinking its maybe the estrogel as it says it can cause hair thinning, and apart from this I seem to be fine on this regime. Will be a shame if it is this as I really can't abide trying another one xx
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Hi Keepgoing
I don't know anything about Estrogel but as far as I am aware Oestrogen is the element that is supposed to be beneficial for hair. The progesterone is required to protect the womb etc. the Utro also lists hair loss as a possible side effect so I thought it would be it that must be causing the problem but I honestly do not know for certain.
I see the hair doc in just over a week so I will ask him what his opinion is on this and let you know what he says about the Estradot patch I'm on and it might give you an idea if it is similar to your Estrogel xx
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Lil L, how much Utrogestan are you taking? If I take too much progesterone of any type, I don't only get migraines but also lose more hair. I have very long dark hair so it is very easy to see when it falls out and I know this is a bit sad but I started counting them and I was losing up to 150 hairs everyday at one point. Then it suddenly slowed and went back to normal but my hair took on a spurt and grew quite fast and people started to comment on how long it had got (nearly waist length).
Looking back, I now think it was all part of the hair growth cycle readjusting and the problem (in my case anyway) was caused by taking too much progesterone. Just like practically every other bodily function known to wo/man, I think it is all about getting your HRT dose right.
I hope that helps.
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Hi Mary G
That does help, thanks. The more I read on the net I was finding Utrogestan is the preferred progesterone so it is good to know others are experiencing hair loss with it too and that I'm not imagining it.
I'm taking 100mg daily for the full month no breaks and I'm on Estradot patch 25mcg.
How much do you take yourself?
I''m hoping the oestrogen is going to be increased could it sound like the hrt balance just isn't right?
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Lil L, so you are on a continuous combined regime. My opinion is that you are taking too much Utrogestan and not enough oestrogen and this could be your problem. If you like the patches and get on well with them then why not up the dose to either 50mcg or 75mcg and see if that makes a difference? For a start, I think you would feel better in yourself for having more oestrogen and it may well bring you hair loss into the normal range. If you have plenty of 25mcg patches at home, why not bung on an extra one and see how you feel?
The problem with the ratio you are currently taking is the Utrogestan is probably too dominant and cancelling out many of the benefits of the oestrogen. I had no traction whatsoever when I was on the 25mcg patch with the Mirena coil although I didn't experience any hair loss but, as always, we all experience different side effects with different types of HRT.
I am on the Professor Studd regime of 2 pumps of Oestrogel everyday (reduced down from 3 pumps) with 100mg of Utrogestan (vaginally) for 7 days plus a small bead of testosterone. Unlike your regime, I get periods but it is a small price to pay for feeling better overall.
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Thanks Mary G, I started my post about androgenic hair loss and hrt under other health issues and my story is a long one but I'm only on hrt for my hair, I'm having blood tests next week before I see the hrt Doctor so she can decide if she is willing to increase the patch dose. I really hope so.
Do you only take Utro 7 days each month? Ive just googled Prof Studd and can see he is based in Wimpole Street, London. This could be very useful, the hair doc Im going to see for a second time is Dr David Fenton he is based nearby on Harley Street so I'm sure he will be aware of your doctor and might be able to get further opinion for me.
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Yes thanks I'm due the blood test next week and as much as I would like to try more of the patch I'm going to have to be patient until I'm on the bp meds I'm seeing all 3 docs within the next 2 weeks so not long to wait thankfully
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I'm sure your doctor will have heard of Professor Studd and as you say, he is in the next street and if you can afford it, he is well worth a visit. The 100mg Utrogestan (vaginally) for 7 days each month is his standard prescription for women like myself who are progesterone intolerant and it works well. I have had womb scans that confirm I can safely take this amount.
Depending on what your doctors say, it might be worth changing to something similar. You may be interested to know that the more oestrogen I take, the better my thyroid function, cholesterol levels and blood pressure readings - I don't actually have a problem with any of them but they do function better with more oestrogen. I know it might not be the same for everyone but nonetheless, it is worth bearing in mind and you could even mention it to your doctor.
By the way, I do have a question, suppose it's the Utrogestan that is causing the high blood pressure? It is not synthetic but it is still not the same as the stuff you produce yourself. I was wondering why your doctor is happy for you to carry on taking it everyday but questions the oestrogen?
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Hi Mary G
I will ask her that as I have no idea if progesterone causes a risk with high bp, I think I only remember her saying the Oestrogen causes a risk.
That is very interesting that your Oestrogen helps everything I will ask hair doc if it could help hair.
To be honest the hair doctor alone is enough expense how often do you need womb scans on your regime? I've only had one were they flushed water in and that wasn't very pleasant but needs must.
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I forgot to say I had the high blood pressure before starting the hrt so that is why the Oestrogen was prescribed at a low dosage, I think I remember hrt doc saying that hrt and high bp don't go well together but nothing very specific.
Sorry for so many questions but how did you know you are progesterone intolerant?
I never thought hrt could be so complicated.
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Lil L, no need to apologise for questions!
I put this link on another thread which you might find interesting:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3106691/You-HRT-menopausal-women-high-blood-pressure-doctors-told.html
This whole BP thing and oestrogen is a bit chicken and egg in my opinion because low oestrogen can cause high blood pressure and my mother and aunt both developed high blood pressure post menopause. The fact that you had high blood pressure before you started HRT could be a factor here and I just wonder if the high level of Utrogestan you take is lessening the good effects of the oestrogen? Are you taking it orally because that does cause more systemic symptoms.
I know what you mean about all these medical consultations, it can end up costing you an arm and a leg. I have never heard of that type of uterine scan that you had. I have an internal ultrasound once or sometimes twice a year and it measures the uterine lining, checks the ovaries, measures the vaginal wall and checks the bladder and the gynaecologist insists on doing it herself, she likes to actually see what is going on first hand. I have the scans on my private health insurance but Professor Studd did not make uterine scans a condition of using his regime.
Re my progesterone intolerance, I am not intolerant to my own progesterone, just the synthetic variety and large doses of Utrogestan. I only had a problem once I stopped producing enough of my own hormones and the symptoms for me are silent migraines which consist of migraine aura without headache.
I took the pill for years and had two Mirena coils and although I didn't have migraines while reproductive, I never felt good on either so to be fair, I had exactly the same challenges with birth control as I do with HRT. That said, now that I have my HRT sorted, I can honestly say that I feel better now than I did years ago while battling with birth control (I never found any form of birth control that suited me) but it's taken me a long time to finally get there!
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Hi Lil L
From what I've read - of course for your general health it's good to sort out your blood pressure - and I presume you have looked at and are trying all the various natural ways to do this? ie Lose weight if necessary, take more exercise, cut down/out salt, reduce alcohol, stop smoking, eat healthy diet - lots of fruit and veg, and not too much saturated fat or rather high fat fast foods and similar. You've probably done all this!
You might be interested in Taz's thread about blood pressure where there are link to various BP sites:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,31667.0.html
Transdermal HRT ( patch or gel) is supposed to be less risky than tablet HRT if you have raised blood pressure.
I agree with Mary G and others who say your oestrogen is very low - and I agree that your hair loss may well be due to low oestrogen generally rather than the utrogestan, which is the least androgenic of the progestogens. Hair loss happens as part of the menopause, and due to decreasing oestrogen and the relative increase in the ratio of testosterone to oestrogen, even though testosterone itself is also decreasing (oestrogen decreases faster).
If you are under a specialist for your hair then I presume you have had already had blood tests for thyroid function although you would probably have noticed other symptoms of thyroid deficiency if this were the case?
Just also to clarify that the oestrogen that Mary G uses (oestrogel) contains exactly the same oestrogen as you have in your patch (as do I - which is estradiol - which is bio-identical to the one in our bodies - so no worries on that score. You are fine with your patch - but just need to increase the dose.
You haven't mentioned how old you are and where in menopause (ie periods etc) before starting the HRT?
Finally there is no need to consult a private specialist at great expense to alter your HRT dose. You just need to gain agreement to increase your oestrogen dose (hopefully while reducing your BP too). As Mary G says if you don't mind a bleed you could always go onto a cycle but the licensed dose of progesterone for cyclical HRT is 200 mg per day for 12 days per 28. On low doses of oestrogen with your doc's permission (or depending on how got on) you could vary this under supervision. However if you are happy on the 100 mg and the Utro is not causing your hair loss I would increase the patch dose and stay with the Utro. Just be aware (depending on where you are in menopause) that if you increase the oestrogen there may be some erratic bleeding or spotting at least initially, and depending how well you absorb the progesterone!
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Hi Mary G
Yes I take the 100mg daily orally. I had a scan with the probe in my womb which I think might be the type you have and I think the water flush procedure was a camera with a view to taking a biopsy wouldn't like that one too often.
I get the aura migraine but with the headache, I believe they are called focal migraines and that's why I'm on a patch due to less risk.
Hi Hurdity
My diet is fairly good but I don't get any exercise which I know I really need to change.
I will ask the doctor about the thyroid level I never thought about that but I think they may have checked, there were around 30 things tested in the blood tests I'm not even sure what they were all for.
I've just turned 47 and haven't had a regular period for 2 years, I had a short bleed last year which they classed as a post meno bleed.
On the Utro you think that is better than Provera? I didn't experience the hair loss on the Provera but was only on it at the beginning of the hrt and even though it the Utro is described as less Androgenic I've read about medroxyprogesterone being a dht blocker which is the bit that affects the hair follicle but I may be misunderstanding that this is not the same as Provera.
Do you think that it is a hormone imbalance that is causing the hair loss and not specifically the Utro?
If you had 200mg every 12 days out of 28 would that mean a bleed each month?
I would like to say thanks for all the info to you Hurdity, Mary G and Stellajane, I have learnt a lot from you ladies over the last few days and wish I'd joined this forum a few months ago!
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End of month two of Utrogestan for first 7 days and oestrogel 2 pumps a day. Am now having a light period. (No period last month). But this period should have started after withdrawal from the Utrogestan at the end of week one shouldn't it? Not in the middle of week 4. Any suggestions as to what is going on and if it's OK?
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Thanks stellajane. I am in peri. I will press on for another month or so and then consider asking my go about 10 days a month instead.
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I agree with Stellajane. One really needs to be monitored closely if trying to do a lower dosage for fewer days of the Utro or problem bleeding could emerge. I feel so good when taking the Utro I dread coming off it. However when I tried it continuously I did feel the cumulative effect (sedative/sleepiness) which I didn't like. Dg x
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Hi
Does anyone know if there is generally a preferred brand of oestrogen patch? My first prescription was estradot which were really small and the second lot were Evorel.
I know they are supposed to be the same medicine but with other meds I think some brands are better than others and wondered if anyone thought the same with patches.
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Trufflecat - if you are peri-menopausal then you can expect a bleed at anytime irrespective of your HRT cycle because your own hormones are coming into play - so no need to worry on that score yet!
Lil L yes if you took 200 mg 12 days per month you would expect a bleed each month provided the oestrogen dose was sufficient to stimulate the womb lining to grow. All the oestrogen patches contain the same oestrogen - estradiol so there is no difference really - except that as you know Estradot are much smaller. I have only ever used these except for a brief period of Evorel when I first started and these are mahoosive in comparison - I wouldn't want anything that big stuck to me - only because there is more to worry about keeping stuck down. Maybe the absorption varies slightly between brands and your skin type, but they are all designed to deliver on average the same amount of oestrogen for a given patch size (ie 50 mcg for example should deliver 50 mcg per day whether Evorel or Estradot). Absoprtion will also probably vary more depending on where on your body you apply the patch.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity I've just got all the letters together for blood tests tomorrow and looking back the hrt doctor wrote to the gp specifically mentioning estradot. I think I would prefer those to the Evorel they do seem less of a nuisance. Will have to see what happens I'm in a bit of a dilemma if given the choice about having the progesterone for 12 days and having a bleed. I was just getting used to not having periods but if it could mean better hair it's a no brainer x
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Btw Lil L you asked some Qs about hair further back down the thread below but really I know very little about it - Stellajane's your expert here! Only that there are different degrees of how androgenic the progestogens are (with those closest to Testosterone most likely leading to more hair loss), rather than physiologically how they actually work. I'm sure you've seen this:
Progestogens which can be used cyclically are of 3 main types:
Testosterone derived - Norgestrel, Norethisterone acetate and Levonorgestrel.
Less testosterone related - Medroxyprogesterone acetate(MPA).
Least testosterone related - Dydrogesterone and Micronised progesterone (Utrogestan).
Side effects are often experienced during the progestogen phase of treatment and can be reduced by using a product containing a different type or route of progestogen.
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/perimeno.php
Your situation may be very specific to you and involve other factors.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity thanks yes I have read that list somewhere before and on a couple of other sites I think one was on a NZ website where the specialist recommended Utro.
It is difficult to tell if it is the Utro that's causing the problem or as some of the members suggest insufficient oestrogen. All I know so far is that on the Provera which was at the beginning I didn't see hair loss until swapping to the Utro but again it may take time for problems to become apparent.
I've asked the hair doc if he could research this for my appointment next week as to whether he thinks Provera or Utro would be best for me, I know he wanted me to go on Femoston which contains the medroxyprogesterone but I couldn't use that.
I think it could be specific to me and maybe just bad luck that I'm that 1 in so many 100 or 1000 that possibly the Utro doesn't suit, it does list hair loss as a side effect even though everything on the web seems not to point towards this. Or as suggested maybe try the short cycle of progesterone, I do think it is going to be a case of try and see.
I was just hoping that someone with my type of hair loss might be a member of the forum but perhaps it isn't as common as I thought xx
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Sorry everybody, but this is my first month of utrogestan/estrogel and, I feel I need to be able to click my fingers and find this thread (especially in the early hours!!!)
So..........................up!
Jaydee
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Thanks Stellajane, I see about the Femoston. I'm finally seeing hair doctor tomorrow so see what he says. I think I'm losing less hair in the shower over the last couple of days but you've just hit the nail on the head, I'm seeing more lost hairs around the house etc I do unfortunately think it is an individual response to the Utrogestan which just my luck as it seems to be better for me in other ways. I had terrible joint pain on the Provera.
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I am also losing hair but I do at the change of each season, always have, so it could just be that....
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Hello I'm sorry to say I'm feeling really depressed. Please can anyone help saw hair doctor who amongst some recommendations advised spironolactone for high blood pressure but GP won't prescribe it. She has prescribed Lisinopril which seems to be widely talked about on the Internet as causing hair loss! Can anyone recommend a bp medicine that isn't know to cause hair loss?
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I think I'll speak to GP and ask if we can hang fire on the bp meds and see if I can get it down with exercise and diet.
The hair doctor thinks my hair is virtually the same as last November or fractionally thinner at the front. He has prescribed a different type of minoxidil using another base which he thinks will be better tolerated. He said that your hair sheds November/December and again in Spring time which is perhaps part of what I'm seeing. He still couldn't comment on the Utro but suggested as Stellajane that if my instincts are telling me the Utro is contributing go back on the Provera and see what happens.
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Hi can I join this wee group? I started oestrogen gel 5 days ago. I feel so sick and have vertigo. Could this be related?
Habe the usual upset tummy and twinging ovaries that I get with all grt but will put up with it all if my mood improves and I get to be me again!! Thanks for reading x
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Have looked at your previous posts tinkerbelj loOKs like you using it for peri?
So not so clued up but if you weren't having periods these pains could be happening plus when I first started gel it took a few weeks to build up so was worse at first. Vertigo is something I can get on and off with meno I use a homeopathic remedy. So with all the ups and downs it could trigger it. I get it if too much progesterone in my system? Got it this month with utrogestan. DI'd you say in your old posts you were just taking 1 pump?
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Hi kate50 yeah I am peri.oh the joys. ..not. yeah they said start with one then up it to two if u feel u need it. I was on femiston 2/10 before and I thought my ovaries were going to burst out all on their own and terrible bowel issues so takon this slow. Plus I am not going to take the utrogesterone this month well not day 15 anyway cuz I havr a special event coming up and want to enjoy it without potential side effects or a period. My own period was due 28thapril but never came so I started the gel on 1st may. Only the second time my period has not come on time! Typical
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Hello! I'm new here and hope some of you lovely ladies maybe able to help. My first post here today on MM outlined my story of just starting Estrogel 2 pumps in the evening after going a full year without HRT following my oopherectomy. I had my hysterectomy when I was 36. I was 46 when I had my oopherectomy.
To be honest, I'm struggling. Hot flushes are a bit better, as is joint pain but the shakes and low mood and anxiety are still a killer! I've had everything else tested such as thyroid, fasting blood sugars and all of those are OK.
So I guess my two burning questions are: how long before the Estrogel really kicks in? I've been on it 29 days now. Is 2 pumps very low for someone in my position? Would splitting the dose to 1 pump AM and PM be better? Are inner thighs the best place to apply? Any help would very greatly appreciated! Thank you. I'm also thinking about consulting with Dr Currie about this - GP hasn't got a clue and my follow up is another 2 months away.
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Hi and welcome to MM Tempest
I assume you are still in your 40s? Why did you have a one year break from HRT?
Having had a whole year without any oestrogen then it is going to take some time to build up the levels and really feel the benefits. I would give the 2 pumps per day at least another month and if flushes have not improved then go to 3 pumps per day and then split between morning and evening. Some women swear by splitting the doses even on 2 pumps per day but I have never bothered. We do store a certain amount of oestrogen so it shouldn't really be necessary to split the doses unless you do need to increase to above 2 pumps. I would give things a bit more time - Oestrogel is one of the best ways to deliver oestrogen and the inner thighs are best. If your flushes are gradually reducing then this shows it is working.
When it comes to anxiety and low mood, more oestrogen isn't necessarily the answer - I believe a range of measures need to be put together - this will include; good diet and exercise regime, plenty of good relaxation (maybe Mindfulness meditation) and if need be an AD/SRRI alongside.
Keep posting - we are here to support you. DG x
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Hi and thank you, Dancinggirl!
The Consultant Gynae. who did my surgery isn't a fan of HRT and wanted me to manage without. He was also concerned as I've had serious life threatening allergies to various meds in the past (anaphylaxis), but when I actually managed to get an appointment at my local Menopause Clinic (who have been marvellous), they were appalled and said it shouldn't be a problem and that I should trial cautiously on 1 pump for a couple of days and if everything was OK, increase to 2 which I have.
I was actually perimenopausal for approximately 3 years before my surgery. To be honest, it's been total hell. My first GP wouldn't even consider that I may be perimenopausal despite having had a hysterectomy at 36 (I'm 47 now). She also said that the pain and swelling in my tummy at the time was 'anxiety related', but I knew it wasn't and was actually still under my Consultant Gynae., so I phoned his secretary myself and was able to see him. He performed an ultrasound and I had a complex cyst which was torsioned, and hence I had a bilateral salpingo oopherectomy 2 weeks later. Needless to say, I've now changed GP! My new GP is better, but still doesn't have much idea about menopause issues.
Thank you for your very kind advice about splitting the dose. When I spoke to the Consultant at the Menopause Clinic, she actually said if I need to increase dose to 3 pumps at my 3 month review, then that would be the time to split it, 1 pump AM, 2 PM so what you've said ties in with her advice.😊
My diet is very good and I take walking exercise every day, which is now somewhat easier as my joints are less painful which is a good improvement. I've also completely given up caffeine and eat no refined sugar.
Now stress IS a problem, as I think I am carrying a lot of baggage over how things have gone for me over the last few years with all this. I'm signed up for a course of CBT with my local CMHT starting later this month and will go in open minded, although I would prefer something focussing more on relaxation and mindfulness. I'm hoping it won't just be a series of booklets to fill in (I have been warned that this is likely from other folk who have been referred. I think the CBT offered is a bit 'one size fits everyone)!
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Oh, and sorry! I forgot to say that prior to my attending the Menopause Clinic, my GP tried 3 different antidepressants. Fluoxetine caused total insomnia and uncontrollable anxiety, Sertraline caused my liver to become inflamed (I needed an emergency ultrasound for that one)! And finally, Citalopram caused Torsades, which made my heart rate increase dramatically within 20 minutes of taking a dose. So not good! This is one of the reasons my GP referred me to the Menopause Clinic and to CMHT, as we had pretty much exhausted all options with SSRI's and I can't take SNRI's as they block the action of the epinephrine in my epi pen auto injector, which would be catastrophic if I were to have an anaphylactic episode. Sorry, I'm a bit of a nightmare I'm afraid!😮
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Tempest - sounds to me as though the Oestrogel may be your best route - especially as you are already seeing some improvement in the flushes. Getting some CBT is also good - it may be a slow progress but I bet you are going to feel a good deal better in 3-6 months times when everything really kicks in. I'd still stick with 2 pumps per day for a while. DG x
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Would any of u lovely ladies know what causes cramps/ bowel issues with hrt. Is it the oestrogen or progesterone or just an imbalance? I started on the gel 6 dats ago and the same symotoms as every other hrt have started. Lower pelvis cramping and a constant feeling of eh well having to poo. I would have always had these issues before my period but this is constant every time I take any hrt. Will it settle down? ?
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Hi Tempest - also you may well benefit from additional testosterone in your position, if oestrogen alone does not work or if you can't find the right dose. I wonder if your menopause clinic will consider this? The first indication of deficiency would be lack of libido so if this is the case for you then please ask - NICE Guidelines now suggest it can be considered for women off licence. it also helps with muscle pains ( if these are a problem) and general energy levels.
Hurdity x
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Tempest at my meno clinic the cinsultant laughed in my face when u mentioned testosterone but at my review appt months later her registrar had no issues with it at all! She asked me to try the gel combination for 3 months and if it didnt help she would give me it. So I would just ask straight out and I had printed off the nice guidelines but didnt need them it is definitely mentioned in those good luck xx
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Just realised it looks like I cant spell lol but in my defence I am usually typing with an 18month old on my knee ;D
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Thank you so much, Tink and Hurdity! :)
Yes, the lovely lady Consultant said I could also add Testosterone and that we can discuss it at my 3 month review if there is no improvement in my libido. I could do with the increased energy too!
Dancinggirl - thank you so much for the encouragement! I'm getting used to the idea that this may take some time for me to see improvement as I have been without estrogen for so long. The lady Consultant said that she feels my estrogen receptors will now take some time to 'wake up' to estrogen again. I'm crossing everything in hope!!!😊
Just wanted to add, I had never heard of Professor Studd before so I checked out his website. Wow! What a guy! I really wish all healthcare professionals would take his ideas on board, especially as I have met a few ladies in my travels who were 'diagnosed' with mental health problems initially instead of menopause (me included - I was told I had developed an 'anxiety disorder'. Nope, GP wouldn't believe I might be in menopause at 46 despite having had my hysterectomy at 36)!😮
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Is the 18 mth yours Tinkerbell... ;)
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Cassie.....yep sure is along with a 4 year old :)
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Ugh! Sorry ladies, but I need some more advice please if that's OK. I just don't know where I am right now! Today and yesterday I have been feeling increasingly tense and my mood is low, but not so bad that I want to cry. It's more a sense of 'impending doom'. Also very spotty for some reason! This hasnt been a problem before - my facial skin over the last year has actually been very dry and a bit flaky. Most of all, I don't like this tense feeling. It's better than some of the catastrophic lows I've had over the last few months, but this just feels kind of 'weird' for want of a better word, as if I could 'lose it' at any moment but it doesn't peak.
Hubby is being very good and reckons it may just be that my body is saying 'hand on a minute, where the heck is this estrogen coming from'?! After all this time (I was on nothing for over a year following my BSO).
I am trying not to dwell on it too much but it's pretty hard! I realise over analysing probably just adds to it - I can't seem to stop thinking to myself - is this dose too high? Too low? What shall I do?!? Please if someone can, talk me down a bit and if you have any insights as to what may be going on at the moment, I would be so very grateful. Thank you, and sorry to be a pain!
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I think I had a bit if tension at first it's odd the way the oestrogel affects some. It's like it's working but it's not. It really did take a while to settle Niamh told me this as she was the same and she was right. So it's like your getting some of the benefits but also some of your old symptoms
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Tempest I started on 1st may with the gel. Yesterday I felt great and thought hey this is kickin.today anxiety is coking me and I feel sick amd weepy. I think it takes a while for the hormones to stop fluctuating. I hope that's what it is anyway. Hang on in there yes it is really horrible . Surely it has to stop sometime. Prob no help but your not alone xxx
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I agree.... The gel definetly increased my anxiousness for a week or two and then it did settle. I defo had the feeling that you described of feeling like you could loose it at any time.
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Oh, Tink, Kate and Mis71Mum - thank you! Thank you SO MUCH for replying! I have literally just had to drag myself off about an hour ago to apply my dose, I feel truly wretched today. You can't know what a difference it's made when I came back on here to see your replies and find out that I'm not just having a weird old time of it and it's just me. I shall try with every shred to persevere!
Tink, maybe we can prop each other up as we start our journey on this stuff? It has to get better, right? I keep telling myself 'patience, for Christ's sake woman'!!! Damned hormones......!!!!!
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Tempest lets do this!!!! Nail these hormones one day at a time xxx
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Hang in there Tempest - it will get better. I don't think it's the oestrogen causing the problems - your body is going through an adjustment. My gynae describes the side effects one feels in the first 3 -6 months as â€the body waking upâ€. You are doing all the right things but the temptation to over think things is very great - do try to get on with life and do plenty of pleasurable things you enjoy. Be kind to yourself. Dg x
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That's a great insight, Dancinggirl! Yes, waking up......that sounds better! I'm a dress bunny, I know! And Tink - yeah!!!!! Let's DO this! 😀😀😀😀
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That should be 'stress bunny' - lol!!!! ;D
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Tempest & Tinkerbellj
Please can I join you two? I'm on Day 19 of my first cycle of Oestrogel and Utrogestan.....in fact on Day 4 of U.
I'm 44 with 2 small ones....aged 6 and 7 and i've been suffering with anxiety and depression since this peri lack started.
I need hand holding because i'm so sensitive to all meds..
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Mis71mum u r more than welcome. Today I feel like I need someone to hold my whole body! Except dont touch me cuz I am aching. Day 8 of oestrogen feel wired but completely exhaused and would bite the head clean off anyone who speaks to me :-\
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I'm sorry to hear you are all experiencing side effects on this regime, I never had any with the gel or maybe I felt so bad before starting it it couldn't get any worse. On the utro I had a few problems but this month on it I feel fine apart from one day a bit weepy but I am always like that at time of the month...I am on my third month and can honestly say it's the best regime...for me anyway. I am sure after first month you will all start to feel a bit better it just needs time to build up. With hrt tabs and patches I felt awful, the difference I'm feeling on this is great. We are all different but this regime seems to work great for so many of us so please hang in there and hopefully it works for you like it has for me. I needed diazepam 3 times a day just to make it through another day before this that's how bad things were and all due to hormones...I'm hoping by sharing this with you it might help you all a bit to see someone coming out the other end when the treatment kicks in...I know it's very difficult going through it but take it a day at a time and you will get there. Good luck keep posting it helps xxx
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Stellajane I know people posting on here are having problems as I myself posted with problems and thanks to this site I got the information about estrogel and utro and I'm so glad I did as it's saved my sanity...I only posted my experience to try and give others hope that it may work as well for them or if not another regime may. Reading about other people's experiences and how bad they felt and then how good they felt once they found the right regime for them really helped me as I was ready to give up trying to find the right one....I was not trying to be smug about the fact, only trying to help as it's an awful time of life...sorry if it came across as me rubbing in how good I feel now was really not my intention xxx. Keep posting everyone as this site is a lifeline ❤️ Xx
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This is my fifth attempt to find a suitable hrt. Only on day 8 of gel so cant comment if it is working or not but something is def happening...vertigo anyone? Dizzy dizzy dizzy
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Tink!!!!!! Oh my goodness. Dizzy is THE word. I'm on day 31 now and the last 4 days or so have been somewhat hellish I'm sorry to say. Whole body aches. Flu like. And dizzy, dizzy, dizzy and the whole body shakes are back! I really wasn't expecting to be still feeling like this BUT I am trying to factor in that I have been without any HRT for just slightly over a year post surgery.
If anyone out there has had a very slow start on Estrogel I'd greatly appreciate if you would keep kindly share your story, especially if you eventually felt good on it (needing hope here)!
Mis71mum, I'm sending you biggest {{{hugs}}}! Welcome to our little 'club'! I was peri before my surgery, and I remember the anxiety so well. I still get it, but not as intense as then. Although it is very much a peri symptom and thus hormone related, I still found the podcasts over at Anxietyguru.com a great help, as well as 4,7,8 breathing to help me relax just before trying to drop off to sleep (Google it. There is a YouTube video and whilst it may seem a bit strange, I promise you it does help you to relax and drop off. Not sure how it works but I was surprised)! xxxx
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I think it is worth persevering. As you say, it's the first month. Also, I have a habit of blaming everything on my hormones only to realise sometimes that I actually have a cold coming or whatever!
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Last week I had a horrible virus that got me really worried. I felt very dizzy, cold or hot, ached terribly, couldn't sleep but total fatigue. It last 3-4 days and I was starting to worry it was my body rebelling against the hormones. Then all these symptoms subsided and then found out a number of my work colleagues had been feeling the same. Some viruses are very insidious. Oestrogen will usually make you feel better so it is worth riding these strange feelings as it is easy to blame the hormones when in fact it is something else. Dg xxx
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Hello
I'm on Day 21 today and tonight will be night 6 of Utrogestan. I'm beginning to feel a bit fed up now, think that's the effects of the U!
Had a blip this morning and wondered if I'm doing the right thing; should I increase my AD's, should I stop HRT, am I progesterone intolerant? What do I do if this all doesn't work?
I think the oestrogen took me out of my head and into my life but I think the U is putting back inside my head if that makes sense. To be fair, I have quite enjoyed the easygoing ness of the U, so maybe it needs tweaking further down the line.
I have noticed much less tears and more energy though.
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Mis71mum my first month on utro for the first week felt really nauseous then it just went I couldn't believe how the next day I was fine. I am now on my third month and feel OK on it wee bit tears one day but I usually am around time of the month. Hang in there cause I think the more you use it the side effects lessen and are not so severe, hopefully like me it will work this way for you xx
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Ladies I feel like I have been run over by a truck. Vague sore throat but all my glands r swollen totally out of proportion for the pain if u get me. But my arms r burning and body aches all over I am not going to be able to go to work. I fell asleep on the sofa beside my 4 yr old and she just put a rug over and sat really still the wee pet she she doesnt deserve a crap mum. Oh and the sweat is pouring off me I feel sick and dizzy. And its only day 9 of the oestrogen. Omg
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Tinkerbellj - the symptoms you have are nothing to do with the Oestrogen - you have a nasty virus. The virus I had last week was exactly like this and if you have small children then you are exposed to everything they pick up at nursery. Lower oestrogen levels does compromise our immune system - once you oestrogen levels get back to a reasonable level then you will resist viruses better. Dg x
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Sorry to hear you are poorly Tinkerbell but its def not the gel, you must have a virus, rest up and be kind to yourself. The gel will not cause these symptoms, poor gel stop blaming it :) get better soon.
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Thanks ladies. Ah I sort of knew it was a virus but I am so low emotionally that it just knocked me for six. I am really sore anyway amd I have fibro so I am not about to give up on this hrt malarky just yet and especially since it has taken me 18 months to get the gel regime. I am determined this will work!!
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Dancinggirl, Tink - I have EXACTLY the same thing going on at the moment! I am betting it IS a nasty virus! I was lunching with my brother yesterday who flew up to me here in Scotland, and the sore throat started with a vengeance! Thinking back to last week, Hubby and I went out to a trendy bistro on the Wednesday and both felt a bit unwell tummy wise later, but thought it might just be that the food was different. It really started to hit with body aches on Saturday. Which is 3 days after I ate out. They say it takes sometimes 3 days after coming into contact with a bug/virus for the symptoms to appear sometimes. Our food was served on chopping boards, and Hubby wasn't too impressed at the time (but he's a bit like that anyway)! He's just sloped in from work and says that he is now starting to feel very drained and 'shuggly' too. So yep - I think there is something very nasty going around!
I'm taking this as a lesson not to always blame it on hormones and big, big thanks to you Dancinggirl for being the voice of reason. I did go out this afternoon to catch some days in the garden as it's so sunny here for a change. Vitamin D is always much needed up here! ;)
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Hello All
Having yet another down day....or morning should I say? Not sure what my next steps may be....I can't say that I am feeling nervous, more like analysing myself or spending time in my own head. And I can only say that this has happened since the start of my Utrogestan, or should I say, has got worse.
Now these things are on my mind;
Am I going to be any worse when I stop the Utrogestan?
Should I increase for my next cycle?
Should I give up altogether and increase my AD's?
Need to reassurance as feeling a bit fed up. I can't quite understand this on the U because i'm sure that on the Femostan 1/10, I really liked the Progesterone phase.
Tempest/Tinkerbell, I hope you are both feeling better.
I would also second what Dancing Girl says about low oestrogen levels making your immune system low....I was actually ill-er that my two children. I would start off with a cold, get a sore throat, get conjunctivitus, cold sores, etc, and was unwell for nearly months at a time, whilst the kids suffered for a week, then bounced back.
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Mis71Mum
I really think you are over thinking things. It is really early days and there are so many factors that influence mood and anxiety and you really can't expect to feel good every day. I think if HRT is reducing and controlling the worst of the flushes and night sweats then this is great. To expect HRT to control all low mood and anxiety symptoms is simply too much.
I can't remember exactly what dosage you are using at the moment but I would give your current regime at least 3 months without changing anything before tinkering with it. If you felt good on Femoston, why did you change? Dg x
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What Dancinggirl said :)
Hurdity x
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Just popping in to say feeling much better today, ladies! Yayyyyyyy!!!
Just a wee question about applying gel if I may. This is just to make sure I am getting the best application from it. My leaflet just says 'apply', and I've researched a little and some say rub it in well, others just to smooth it on and let dry. The last couple of days I've been smoothing it on (over an A5 area on each thigh as advised by my Consultant, but she didn't say whether to rub it in or not), and just letting it dry whilst having a chill out with my book for 10 minutes or so. Before, I was rubbing it in. Is there a 'correct' way, or is either way OK? Thank you in advance (and sorry if this seems like a bit of a petty question)!😊
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Tempest - I've always just smoothed it across my inner thighs, I do 2-3 circular motions to spread it and then any left on my hand I wipe on the top of my thigh or upper arm. DGx
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I rub my gel in well alternating legs and usually the area between knee and heel, it only takes a few seconds to dry, I do it in my bed at night :)
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The general advice is that you don't need to rub it in - but as you see some women do. The serum oestrogen levels obtained from the gel will have been worked out with women using a consistent method - which is to spread it.
In terms of the part of the body - Estrogel is the only transdermal oestrogen where the shoulders and arms are given as a suitable site as well as lower trunk. All the other transdermal HRT - Sandrena gel, and all the oestrogen patches say to apply to lower abdomen below the waist (to be a long way from breast I presume?).
The absorption of the gel is partly dependent on the size of the area that you spread the gel. I read a paper outlining this as part of the product info. It is important that the gel is absorbed before it dries and applying over as large an area as possible to speed drying actually reduces absorption. I can't remember where the paper is but that's why the instructions suggest a size.
It's not a good idea to apply it in bed, if you share a bed with someone (unless you cover up the skin after it dries) because of transference - skin contact should be avoided for an hour after application.
Hurdity x
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Hello Ladies
I know I keep over thinking these things! To be honest, I think it's part of my anxiety, it makes me need to find a solution all the time, which is okay to problem solve but not okay to ruminate over.
Anyway, I have completed my 7 days on Utrogestan and will continue to with 1 pump again for the next month. I am thinking of increasing my AD's because I am overthinking although it is less, and I know I am doing it....but will probably give it another week or so before doing so.
As I mentioned before, I was at some point considering tweaking my doseage to ensure that my lining keeps healthy, etc, but my GP has been clueless. Therefore, I am considering asking for a referal to my menopause clinic as I am not sure what I can do. For example, I didn't mind the 100mg really for 7 days, but was wondering if I could increase to 2 pumps of gel, could I try the 25/28 method of utrogestan?
The Femoston 1/10 was good for a while so increased to 2/10 but never settled on that....but was told I had to come off tablets due to my sticky blood syndrome.
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Well its been well over 10 yrs and so far OH has not started sprouting any bits that he shouldnt, despite me applying the gel religiously every night..... ;D
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That's interesting Cassie - you mean the stuff actually touches him as in skin to skin contact - regularly?
Mis71Mum - no reason why not to do 25 days per month of 100 mcg Utrogestan instead of 7 - it should make your bleeds lighter in the long run although you may get some irregular breakthrough bleeding at odd times at first.
Hurdity x
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Before you change your regime please check with your health provider. It is good to get other people's experiences but we are all different and people are giving their personal opinion but not a medical opinion
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Hello
2 days finishing my Utrogestan, my period has arrived! Yippeee, good to feel normal/hormones having some effect.
Can I ask a question that isn't analysing or overthinking please? If it's quite light, can I take it that my oestrogen levels are still low? Or could it be that the Utrogestan isn't high enough to cause a full bleed? Just thinking of my next steps as to whether to go for 2 pumps, and 25/28 Utrogestan or wait another month on my current regime of 1 Pump and 7 x 100mg. I know that my lining was very thin when seen by my Gyny in April.
I can't believe that a year ago, I was possibly having too much oestrogen as was bleeding 3 times in 28 days on F2/10. What a total minefield this peri menopause lark is!
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Mis71Mum - stick with what you have been doing - don't tinker. The lower dose is clearly enough - as long as flushes and night sweats are under control that is all that matters at this stage. DG x
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No Hurdity def not regularly at all, for that I would need some of your Testosterone gel ;D
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Hi ladies! Phew! This is tough going. STILL getting the shakes (internal tremors) which show up at the oddest times even when I'm relaxing or doing something enjoyable. Also feelings of extreme nausea. Day 36 of 2 pumps of Estrogel at night. Also shaking upon waking which I haven't had since early peri (about 3 - 4 years ago now). Symptoms lessen as day progresses, but are there very strongly in the mornings, so much so that it's interfering with my day majorly!
I'm trying to 'om' as much as possible, but tbh it's getting me down a bit now! If you have any thoughts anyone, i'd appreciate it. I don't want to mess about with my dose at this stage, except maybe to split the dose AM and PM? All other bloods are fine as had the whole caboodle done before I started the HRT.
Mood is also a bit all over the place too! Cried today when I saw a wee bird in the garden getting attacked by a bullying magpie. It was like the end of the world!!! Again, not had anything like this since my peri days. :'(
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Hello
2 days finishing my Utrogestan, my period has arrived! Yippeee, good to feel normal/hormones having some effect.
Can I ask a question that isn't analysing or overthinking please? If it's quite light, can I take it that my oestrogen levels are still low? Or could it be that the Utrogestan isn't high enough to cause a full bleed? Just thinking of my next steps as to whether to go for 2 pumps, and 25/28 Utrogestan or wait another month on my current regime of 1 Pump and 7 x 100mg. I know that my lining was very thin when seen by my Gyny in April.
I can't believe that a year ago, I was possibly having too much oestrogen as was bleeding 3 times in 28 days on F2/10. What a total minefield this peri menopause lark is!
Hi Mis71Mum - I can't remember what you have been prescribed and whether it was by a gynae or your GP? The licensed dose of utrogestan for cyclical HRT is 200 mg orally x 12 days per 28, and for continuous combined is 100 mg for 25 days per 28, but some docs prescribe a longer course of progesterone for peri-menopausal women if there is problematic bleeding.
If you saw your gynae in April and your lining was thin then it may well not have built up over the first month, although 7 days of utrogestan 100 mg orally is very low - as I said above - way less than the licensed dose. Did you doc/gynae indicate you could vary it eg increase to two pumps if your symptoms were not controlled with one?
The main thing is how are you feeling generally?
Hurdity x
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Hi ladies! Phew! This is tough going. STILL getting the shakes (internal tremors) which show up at the oddest times even when I'm relaxing or doing something enjoyable. Also feelings of extreme nausea. Day 36 of 2 pumps of Estrogel at night. Also shaking upon waking which I haven't had since early peri (about 3 - 4 years ago now). Symptoms lessen as day progresses, but are there very strongly in the mornings, so much so that it's interfering with my day majorly!
I'm trying to 'om' as much as possible, but tbh it's getting me down a bit now! If you have any thoughts anyone, i'd appreciate it. I don't want to mess about with my dose at this stage, except maybe to split the dose AM and PM? All other bloods are fine as had the whole caboodle done before I started the HRT.
Mood is also a bit all over the place too! Cried today when I saw a wee bird in the garden getting attacked by a bullying magpie. It was like the end of the world!!! Again, not had anything like this since my peri days. :'(
How long have you been on two pumps Tempest? Also what is your diet like? Sorry if you've already said elsewhere but now is a good time to look at this and especially to cut out sugar and refined carbs as much as possilbe and indeed reduce carbs generally - and replace it with more lean protein, fruit, veg, nuts etc if you can. This will help control your blood sugar metabolism and stabilise blood sugar - which might be playing a part in your side effects? Just a thought...
The nausea sounds like a reaction to increased oestrogen - like in pregnancy - and this should settle soon hopefully - I know it's tough at first but it will be worth it in the long run (hopefully!)
Hurdity x
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Thanks ladies for the replies.
My gyny prescribed the Utrogestan basically to give me a bleed pre op wise at 7 X 100mg so I will ask him what my correct doseage should be.
My GP prescribed the gel which stated 2 pumps increasing to 3 but I wanted to start at 1 and am glad I did. She also prescribed me tablets of nonhiserone which I wouldn't take.
My night/early morning flushes have gone. I have a bit more energy and have stopped crying at daft things. Not much concentration still and also getting very hot and flushed face in the day.
My side effects of headaches and nausea and bloating have all now settled.
Strangely I've had a rash all over my feet for the last 6 months, and over the last 10 days, it's disappeared. Very strange indeed, never put the rash down to hormones.
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Ah, thank you again Hurdity! You really are so kind! My diet is good, actually. Ever since peri, I've cut out all added and refined sugar and don't do caffeine at all. I eat low GI Foods too such as porridge and oatcakes to level out blood sugar. There is always room for improvement though I'm sure!
I didn't think of the similarity to pregnancy and adding in estrogen tbh! So long ago now, I forgot what it's like (my lovely son turns 20 soon, doesn't seem possible). I guess my body has had rather a shock as this is the first HRT in over a year after my BSO (also had TAH when I was 36 and I'm 47 now). I never felt I was running on full cylinders even after that op. but wasn't offered any hormonal support. I guess it could take a while lo get than usual for me to adjust? I must just try to be patient!😊
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Sorry Hurdity - meant to say it's been 31 days on 2 pumps!
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Tempest
I was just going to say that I reacted the same way as you and I had been off HRT for just over 4 months. If you've not had it for over a year, then I would imagine it would take a while to settle.
Hang in there xx
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Oh, thank you so much Mis71Mum! I really appreciate your reassurance!😊xxx
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Hello
Finally, my date with the HRT specialist at the Menopause Clinic arrived :gym:
But I feel a little disappointed... like we only got to the aperitif after waiting 3 months...
We talked through my symptoms, medication, that I was signed off work etc and then he said just increase the gel to 3 pumps a day instead of 2, and if that doesn't work after 4 weeks try 4 pumps for 4 weeks - if that doesn't work we can look at patches or the coil or an implant. Come back in 4 months and have a look at the Menopause Matters website (!!!). I said don't you need to do any tests, he said no it sounds as if you need more estrogen. (Am currently on 2 pumps + utrogestan for 12 days at 200mg - as prescribed by my Dr following advice from this site).
Anyone else had this experience with a specialist... I know blood tests don't give a complete picture but I was expecting more, and I am slightly suspicious that he is trying to save money...
Have had 2 days on increased dose and had a bit of a euphoric time, then hit the floor again today after a night with more intense hot flush... I guess I have to let the dose settle as Dr suggests.. I thought I was a patient person, not any more :-\ Sorry to moan, but just be interested to see if I should go back and ask for a more thorough investigation - or should go private??
Thanks all
Rx
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Oh - and the other thing he said which I thought a bit strange was that drinking caffeine is good too?? I've been cutting coffee/tea out, and don't drink fizzy pop.
He also made me laugh when we discussed excercise - I said yoga, swimming, walking - he suggested instead weight lifting - I thought maybe he should re-think that, giving menopausal women heavy objects isn't such a good idea... (got to laugh...) :beat:
Rx
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Me again!
Just read Tempest post on whether hormone levels should be tested, which kind of answers my question above - so I just need to keep on plugging on and try to enjoy being off work in the sunshine - I keep playing that Frozen song 'let it go'... drives my OH mad :)
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Hi ruthae it just needs more time. I am on same regime as you I was still feeling a bit flat on 2 pumps so I upped it to 3 about a month before my docs check up so by time I got check up I was feeling much better...as I said to doc she would have told me to up it to 3 anyway so I just did it a bit earlier, she said as long as I don't go out the guidlines it's fine...hang in there xx
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Hi everyone just an update...my hair is growing back yay have wee short stubbly hairs all over my head. Sorry sounds like I went bald, I didn't but when I first started regime I lost a lot of hair, no one noticed but me as I have a thick head of hair but I felt it was really thinning. Now 3 months on I'm doing great and feel even better seeing the hair coming back because I was scared it was the gel or utro and I wouldn't be able to continue if hair kept falling out. I feel so good on this regime and so glad the hair falling out was just a temporary side effect of my body getting used to it.
If anyone else has this problem please stick with it as your hair should grow back like mine as I was scared I had found a regime that really worked but would maybe have to give up cause of hairloss...thank goodness that's not the case xxx
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That's great news, keepgoing! So glad you are doing so well😊
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Hi Keepgoing, great news!! It does take awhile for things to settle i realise, it is just that I am now coming up to 12 months of trying different hrt regimes and those around me including work are getting a bit fed up...
Rx
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Hi ruthae didn't realise you had been trying for a year...fingers crossed this will be the one that works for you and you to tempest...it is a bugger xx
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Oh - and the other thing he said which I thought a bit strange was that drinking caffeine is good too?? I've been cutting coffee/tea out, and don't drink fizzy pop.
He also made me laugh when we discussed excercise - I said yoga, swimming, walking - he suggested instead weight lifting - I thought maybe he should re-think that, giving menopausal women heavy objects isn't such a good idea... (got to laugh...) :beat:
Rx
Not sure about weight-lifting as such but some sort of body-conditioning is good at this stage in our lives because our muscles degenerate gradually as we age - partly due to decreased testosterone - maybe also to do with thyroid ( ?bit hazy about the latter) - therefore we need to put more effort into keeping them strong and in the long term should help to reduce muscular aches and pains. It also helps to speed up your metabolism because weight for weight muscle burns more calories at rest than fat!!! So - he wasn't taking complete rubbish. Not sure about the caffeine though - except of course it energises you - I must say I love my caffeine :)
Hurdity x
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Keep going, yes it sure is a bugger... We willl get through it, but some days that is harder to believe than other isnt it..
Hi Hurdity,
Oh he is rightt just his choice of specific sport made me laugh, My yoga practise is strength building as we do quite a lot of lifts, but some more wouldnt harm. I guess use.of caffeine depends how you feel, energizing can be good but maybe not if you are anxious, which seems to be my main problem.
I think he frustrated me as he was telling me stuff I knew and I was expecting him to offer me tests which would help find a solution... Oh well...
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Now, this is a challenge - utrogestan at night on an empty stomach. I never have an empty stomach at night!! Also instructions say take it at the same time as theOestrogel hrt- but I have been taking that in the morning...at a loss and this is my first night to take the utro.. Didn't really want to take it vaginally- bit worried and confused and miserable that I will have no more suppers- my treat-time of the day : ( C🐾
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Thank you Stella Jane,
Usually I have a few biscuits and maybe an instant hot choc if not decaf tea - never a 'proper meal'. All this feels like a bit of a minefield at mo with my brain ( reduced as it is ) hardly able to focus on anything else.
Thinking (due to the instructions on the packet) maybe I need to incrementally maneouvre when I apply the gel into the night time to match the utrogestan delivery hour and still pondering whether I need 200mg for 12 days of utro if I only take one pump of estrogel a day... Ho hum. Need to go now.. cystituslike wrenches to bladder have not stopped yet but still only 15 days in to HRT.
Sorry for moaning and indecisive wranglings! Pretty exhausted with this meno lark today and it is not even 7am!
C🐾
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Thank you StellaJane,
Will shunt my timings around to the early evening for the gel and 9ish for utro( a bit earlier as I am still zonked after having it at 11pm and it is now 10am-this is actually a very pleasant feeling after so many months of sleeplessness but need to go to work!)
Will stick to my doses for the mo as I, should give my body a chance to compute what is happening to it before shifting anything about. Just being impatient and nervous! Off to have cup of tea and denied biscuits from last night for Sunday breakfast : )
C🐾
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Hi Ruthae! I've had pretty much the same experience with the Consultant I saw at my Menopause Clinic (minus the advice about caffeine and weightlifting,)! I dont need Utro. though as I've had TAH/BSO.
In my case, this milarky has been going on too long for me. I've had a year of what can only be described as hell after having no HRT post op, and no HRT for the approximately 3 years I was in peri before that. I don't think I'm being impatient - just very worn down and getting distressed now so for me, I have decided to try to consult with Professor Studd (I'm hoping to hear about a possible telephone consultation on Monday, fingers crossed).
As I understand it, this is how it goes anyway with HRT. We need to trial doses/delivery for 3 months and if no improvement, up the dose or change the type. In my case, I'm kinda thinking I need 'something else' to add in in the form of Testosterone and I'm not keen on adding more estrogen in at present - hence why I would like Professor Studd's opinion. I tried phoning both my Consultant who did the surgery last week and the Menopause Clinic for advice, and was told they would phone back. They didn't. So this is why I'm now willing to pay.
Sorry if none of this sounds positive, but this is just my experience and I really hope you see an improvement soon! 💗💗
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Studd puts everyone on oestrogel, progesterone and testosterone from what I can make out! Personally - as I suggested before, I would want to get my oestrogen levels higher and stabilised before adding testosterone due to the possibility of androgenic side effects. I still think you need to wait longer - you've only been on the gel for a month and if this is not sufficient it would be better to increase oestrogen before adding in testosterone - but that is my personal view. Why not phone the clinic again? I can understand your frustration though!
Hurdity x
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Thank you, Hurdity! Do you know, after I posted this I actually came across a post you wrote in reply to another member about the androgenic side effects of Testosterone and I had a lightbulb moment. You are absolutely, perfectly right of course! As I've had no estrogen to speak of for a while, it could make rather a mess of things at this stage. I also remember what Dancinggirl said a few days ago about your body 'waking up' when you start HRT after a break or not having had any, and I'm thinking this is what all the weirdness is that's going on for me at the moment.
I just need to take stock and slow down a bit I think!!!! xxx
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Hi Tempest
Thanks for response, and sorry to hear you're in the wars too. Yes the clinics seem to be under terrible pressure, they usually take 4 to 5 days to return calls. I think I am still peri so 3 pumps plus my own hormones surging unpredictably seems a bit risky to me, but he is the expert... I spoke to a friend who works for NHS support locally he is going to see what he can find out from the inside...
Let us know how prof. Stud goes, I am already paying for weekly councelling to help get me through this as each regime takes so long to settle, but I might end up there too.
Rx
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Stellajane - I've not been on here for a while and just to give a quick update. Good news on the bp front after showing GP bp home readings she is happy for me to try and manage bp with exercise and diet changes - thanks to CLKD for recommending the home bp kit.
On the hair loss, I'm on the derm docs minoxidil regime but was disappointed he could comment on Provera v Utro. I'm still on the Utro but reluctantly so as although he did say we see more hair shedding in Spring I still think it might be contributing.
I saw the lovely HRT specialist last week, she has increased my oestrogen patch to 37.5 mcg. My oestrodiol level was 88 which I think is low. We spoke about a shorter cycle on Utro but she was wasn't keen to put me on it. I'm on a daily dose not 25 days out of 28 which I don't understand but will be speaking with her soon.
I still think it is going to be trial and error and the HRT doctor said she was going to look into using the Utro vaginally and also if the Provera 2.5 mg would give enough womb protection. The 10mg and 5mg gave me horrendous joint pain but as I was only in the Provera for a couple of weeks I do not know if the symptoms would subside.
As one of the other ladies mentioned taking the Utro orally can be a bit of a pain, I've been advised to take it 2 hours after food, the only side effect I'm having us tiredness, and it does stop me late night snacking.
The HRT doc does think using it vaginally could possibly have less side effects such as the hair loss and hopefully tiredness. I know the Utro is well know for being the least androgenic but I do still think that it is still down to the individual that it can still cause the hair loss. Like the Provera apparently the HRT doc hadn't come across anyone suffering joint pain before but it certainly affected me that way. So perhaps next steps may be to try Provera 2.5mg and if the joint pain returns go back to the Utro. Will let you know what she says. Thanks to everyone for your help xx
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Hi Lil L - it depends what units of measurement were used for your oestrogen. If it was in pmol/l then yes 88 would be a low reading but if in pg/ml it would be fine and a good reading (provided your symptoms are under control). Also glad to hear you are now increasing your dose of oestrogen - but can't remember how old you are and where in menopause...glad your BP is becoming controlled too :)
Hurdity x
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Hi Stellajane and Hurdity, I'm on 100mg daily of the Utro and I don't really think I like the idea of vaginally every day either. I'm hoping the hrt doctor will come back with some info on the Provera 2.5 mg. I am on the hrt only really for the hair loss and bone protection. I am 47 and think the docs said that the bleed last year was post meno so I think they reckon I was post meno about 2 years ago at 45.
I've lost a few pounds it's hard going but I think next steps if they can see good bp readings and more weight loss will be a 50mcg patch, unfortunately none of the docs seem to know the strength of patch at which you would see improvement with hair. The oestrogen reading was 88pmol/l and another reading will be taken in around 6 weeks. Thanks and I'll keep you posted xx
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4 months of the Utrogestan for 7 days and two pumps daily and I feel that this is a good regeime for me. Very little bleeding though, just some minor spotting once a month ish. I will make an appointment to see my GP as I might need a scan to check things.
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Can I ask where people apply their ostrogel and how often you vary where you put it? I've been using it for nearly 8 months now and always apply inner upper and lower arm but I've read it's best to vary it owing to saturation? Thx
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Always applied it to my inner thighs for many, many years and never had any problems with absorption. DG x
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Maybe I shouldn't worry then! I might try inner thigh though for a few weeks for a change tho ;D x
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Sandrena gel and all the estrogen patches tell you to apply it on lower trunk/abdomen below the waist. Estrogel is the only one that says arms or shoulders as well. Personally I wouldn't apply on top of inner upper arm as that is close to the breast and there is some transport through the skin - but since the instructions say it's OK then it must be :) . I have never used it though but do use testosterone gel which is the same - ie applied to lower abdomen.
I don't quite understand about the changing site or keeping to the same one. A paper I read suggested that for one gel preparation (but it didn't mention which) the site should be varied, and the other it should be kept the same. it is precisely because it builds up in the skin that keeping to the same site was suggested as it provides a reservoir of oestrogen to replenish the system. The Sandrena instructions say alternate inner thigh but Estrogel says nothing about this!
There is a woeful lack of detailed information about this!
Provided you do the same thing each time approx then you will give yourself a consistent dose I would say?
Hurdity x
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I apply 1 and a teeny blob extra and spread over my legs alternating legs each night, never anywhere else, I find my arms too short....I rub it in from ankle to above knee kinda spreading it out and rub till its all in, only takes a few seconds....seems to be doing the trick.... ;)
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Interesting, Cassie, that you are applying to lower leg..... do you find this better than thighs? Might try it.
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Its worked for me for yrs....give it a try.... :)
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Will do - do you mean up the calf or the front of the leg?
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All over the bottom leg calf and front....if theres left overs you can go above the knee makes no diff.
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My Consultant at the menopause clinic said a big no to applying it to my lower leg. But then I do have a varicose vein on one lower calf. The only approved sites from the pharmaceutical company who manufactures mine are outer upper arm and shoulder and inner thigh, over an area approximately a5 size.
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Hello there,
After reading up on this web site and some suggestions from a number of fabulous won=men in this forum I went to my GP and asked to move to utrogestan and oestrogel.
He didn't rule it out but wasn't very keen, largely because he had never prescribed it before (in fact no one in the practice had.) He asked for a bit of time to look into it and prescribed me a higher dose of Prempack than the one O was on. (up to 1.25mg). I'm doing okay on that - it seems to have relieved the symptoms that were creeping back in, but here's my question...
Should I push to try the utro/ oestro combination and pump?
Any thoughts from those of you who have traveled this road would be appreciated.
Thanks
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If it aint broke ..... ;)
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Thanks Stellajane. That's helpful.
I'm 53 but have no intention of trying life without HRT...
I'll stick with Prempac for now and revisit this when I feel the need. Onwards and upwards!
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I have read through this thread ( well not the full 45 pages of it exactly ) and I have to say that I am now a little more uncertain than I was before.
I started a new HRT prescription about 12 days ago which is Estradiol 50mgs patches and Ultrogestan 100mg capsules from days 15 to 26. To say that I am a little wary of taking the capsules is quite an understatement ( any potential progesterone treatment has earnt the name paranoia patches / pills in my vocabulary as a result of my experiences.)
I struggled with Estelle Duo many months back as pills didn't seem to work for me so I'm not sure how these little monkeys will go down. :-\ I observe that some of you seem to take them at night but that may be because you are using an "alternative route" ;) ( I understand that they come in a pessary form for this type of application but I guess you girls know what you're doing with the tablets) :o
So apart from the potential for, nausea, hair loss, anxiety and insomnia........sounds like most of you are giving Utrogestan the thumbs up? ???
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You use them at night either route :D
Vaginally because its easy to do once lying down
Orally its because you have to take them on empty stomach .
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Thanks stella,
I will look forward to being one of the happy majority. :)
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I am using Utrogestan 100 for 7 days and I like your description of progesterone as 'paranoia'! That's exactly how I feel after a day or so and I have to keep reminding myself that it's the tablets!
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Truffle I also do a 100mg for seven days , and start to feel I am actually going bonkers. It also makes my VA/ bladder issues worse.
There is a part of me that would like a hyster so I wouldn't need it, but that is obviously rather dramatic and doesn't come without problems to its own.
I just no I have to be on HRT for life as my VA / bladder is bad, and it's the progesterone part that is the ? although very slight regards BC.
Just 7 days of it and my labia goes all thin, couple of days of stopping and they plump up again. I had no idea how much our nether regions reacted to hormones , I was obviously going around with blinkers , as this whole perimenopause VA/bladder stuff has knocked me for six both mentally and physically. 😔
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stellajane whats your dosage of estrogen upped to while taking the progesterone?
Today I found myself wondering if I should just abandon the whole HRT thing and try a different approach......?
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Blinkin' 'eck, your labia go thinner?I will monitor mine and see.....Luckily I have not blessed with VA so far and, having read about it on here, I would like to avoid it. How much oestrogel are you on? I have two pumps per day
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My bladder is just getting worse .. Been on 1 pump gel 5weeks and also Ovestin for 1 week now.. Feel very down about it - and worried about why it is deteriorating( my urine sample was apparently negative for infections - hah can't believe I am actually sad I don't have a bacteriological something ) but getting more and more pain flare ups which ebb and flow from intolerable to bearable plus urgency plus soreness and now even wee seems to come out after I've wiped myself thinking I've finished- twice knickers had to come off. Affecting my confidence at work. That with my continuing brain fog. Miserable. Could it be my body getting used to the oestrogen
Repopulating the area( I say this hopefully )? :-\
C🐾
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Callisto - I would ask to be referred to one of the specialist clinics for urological problems - you may need advice with pelvic floor exercises. It is very important to totally empty your bladder every time - so relax the pelvic floor and tip your pelvis back and forth to allow it to empty completely. Retaining any urine will cause it to go stale and this will make you burn. Also bathing the area with a bicarb of soda mix and drink a teaspoon of bicarb in some water (possibly flavoured with a little bit of cordial if need be ) as this will neutralise your urine. If you can, put your feet up midday and, when possible, go without pants to allow things to air. I also use Multi Gyn actigel which helps to keep things healthy around the vaginal area and usually stops the burning. Avoid caffein, acidic juice, alcohol etc and drink camomile, fennel or herbal teas and plenty of water. If you soreness is basically to do with the Urethra - which it sounds as though it is - this is very nasty. I'm afraid I found the Ovestin made me burn - I think it's the fillers in the cream - Vagifem is slightly better for me if I use it with Multi Gyn Actigel. Dg x
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YET another question. Sorry. I would value any opinions.
2 pumps oestrogel daily. Week one I take 100my Utrogestan per night for 7 nights. (Doesn't cause a bleed). End of week three I start getting marked pms symptoms......not as bad re the crying and despair as before I took her, but anxious, tired, dropping stuff, angry, sad etc. My body is clearly producing it's own progesterone around then. Do I alter when I take the Utrogestan to the end of week three so that I get all of my progesterone at once?
Thank you
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Trufflecaat - I'm not sure what you have been told to take and when? I assume you are still peri meno? The problem with the peri stage is the fluctuation of your own hormones and unfortunately Utrogestan isn't that good at controlling the cycle, particularly at such a low dose and for so few days. If you are trying to control mood this is very difficult to achieve in the peri stage and I don't think any of us should expect to feel good every day. In my experience it is a combination of various measures to keep feeling on an even keel. I practise a great deal of Mindful Meditation whenever I feel low, stressed or fatigued and this helps me through the tougher times. The only thing I can't cope with are the horrible headaches I get when I'm not on HRT.
I would stick with what you have been told to do and over the next few months things may well settle as your body adjusts. DG x
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Hi DG. Believe me I am delighted with the improvement in my PMS symptoms. I really am. My GP agreed for me to use Utrogestan for 7 days only as I seem to be intolerant of progesterone, I was just wondering whether to take it at the same point each month at which my body appears to insist on producing its own?
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Hi Trufflecat
I'm on a higher dose than you 3 pumps of gel and 200mg utro for 12 days. although I had bad reaction to other types of progesterone. I think I am in Peri still and so when I started taking utro I didn't bleed when I should have but instead had a breakthrough bleed a 10 days later. So I decided to take the next lot of utro so that the course finished 28 days after the break through bleed. I did doubt whether it would work as my periods had been very irregular but so far now on next bleed it seems to have worked. You might want to run it past your gp but what you are saying makes sense to me. i still got bad pms emotional stuff just before bleed but a BIG improvement on previous 18mths. Good luck xx
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Ok so have been on one pump of gel. Def feeling slightly better but not exactly jumping thru hoops. Started the utrogestan two dsys ago and its horrible. Feel sick really upset tummy and vomited this morning. Supposed to be take 200mg day 15-26 I am thinking of switching to vaginally. So deflated. Ffs why can this not just work. I am upping my gel to two pumps anyway but anxiety is still bad and the muscle pain is still off the scale and fatigue is unreal
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Two pumps is the usual dose, so it wouldn't seem excessive to try that. Could you actually have a tummy bug though?
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Def no bug. I used to get dodgy tummy before my period was due and I had to switch to transdermal gel because most things taken orally upset my tummy. Thats why im thinking vaginally for the utrogestone although my hrt clinic said its not licenced for use that way but I know ladies on here take it like that amd proff studd advocates it too. Just fed up 20 months of this. I have no life and my children need their mummy
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That's not great x Sounds like vaginally would be better
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Thanks trufflecat! Feeling spaced out and weepy so will try vaginally tonight! ! X
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Thanks trufflecat! Feeling spaced out and weepy so will try vaginally tonight! ! X
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The utro upset my tummy as well so I now take vaginally which is much better as the months go on you do feel better. My aches and pains took about 3 months to almost vanish but I am up to 3 pumps of gel and defo feel better for it I'm peri too...hang in there xx
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Thanks keepgoing u ladies rock x
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Keepgoing, how much Utrogestan are you on?
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Trufflecat and Tinnkerbellj, I would add that nobody has even come close to being able to come up a reasonable, logical explanation as to why the NHS does not licence the use of Utrogestan vaginally. I couldn't care less because I am going to use it vaginally anyway but why don't they just change it? Just about every other country licences it to be used in this way so why not the NHS? As you say, Professor Studd and other private doctors do.
It seems to me that many women should not be using Utrogestan orally at all and of course 50% of it gets lost in your digestive system anyway so it is not as effective as using it vaginally whereby nearly all of it hits the spot i.e. the womb.
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Hi I am meant to take 200mg for 12 days orally but I actually take 100mg for 10 days vaginally and I do have a decent bleed, because 50 percent is not going through my digestive system and getting lost when taking orally I reckon 100mg does the job as vaginally you get the full 100mg...that's just my reckoning and I'm having no problems that way xx
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Wow what a difference! Took 100mg utrogestone vaginally last night amd this morning no sickness no weeping no runny tummy!! Result!
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Result! I have never used it vaginally, but I think I should give it a try. Hope you have a better day today.
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I am a bit emotional and pretty short tempered like bad pms but at least I am not in the loo!
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I've read through the thread but can't find the answer I'm looking for.
My Gp has prescribed 2 pumps of Oestrogel daily and 100mg of Utrogestan for 14 days. My question is will I have a bleed when I stop the Utrogestan after day 14?
As I'm now 58 and have been post-menopausal for approximately 5 years, I really don't want to return to monthly bleeds but what is the alternative? I used to take it for 25 days along with a patch but had a slight spotting and was referred for a scan etc which all turned out normal. Is it safe to be taken continously every day of the month and if so why has my Gp prescribed this particular regime for me?
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Hi Jasmine5
Yes you would get a bleed as you have been prescribed a sequential regime. If you look at the link to a page on this site it explains the different easy of using Utrogestan: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php
Your GP actually hasn't prescribed the licensed regime - maybe because they don't know how Utrogstan should be used but also it is often better to try the sequential regime first to see if this progesterone suits you. However, many private gynaes do allow there patients to use Utrogestan in different ways.
Have a look at the link I have given you and if you want to go straight to the conti version then you need to get back to your GP with this page printed out to clarify things. Do expect to get some bleeding and spotting even if you do the conti version as this is quite normal for the first few weeks or even months and Utrogeston isn't as powerful as the other synthetic progesterones so not as good at controlling bleeds and keeping the womb lining thin. Hope that helps.
DG x
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Jasmine5, how well do you tolerate Utrogestan, how have you been taking it and do you have any side effects with it?
I don't know why your GP has moved you onto a cyclical regime but that is a lot of progesterone and if you use it vaginally, I doubt you will get much build up and subsequent bleed. I think that Utrogestan is strong and very effective at clearance when used vaginally but not when used orally. I use two pumps of Oestrogel every day but use much less Utrogestan than the amount you have been prescribed and my last scan lining measurement was just 2mm - if it gets any thinner than that, I'll have problems and the gynae told me not to take any more than I am now. So obviously, I would not personally use Utrogestan everyday on a continous combined basis (it also triggers migraines if I take too much) but if you previously did and without any problems or side effects then I can't see why you should not be able to do this again. Flexibility is the name of the game!
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Hi
Not sure if this question has already been asked...... do any of you ladies notice the Oestrogel get weaker as it gets close to the end of applicator ?? I find it to be weaker, or is it just me??
Also - I'm interested to find out how many Ladies 57 + are using 3 or more pumps of the gel?
Wx
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I am only on one pump and a teeny blob extra per day and on 12 days of Utrogestan used vaginally and get a good steady 5 day bleed, last lining was approx 3 mm if I remember correctly. I cannot imagine having to take the Utro daily, I dont enjoy myself in the 12 days I am on it, it makes me moody and bloated and wired up, with horrible sleep.
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Just thought I should let you know that yesterday was the end of my first block of ultrogestan pills. I took them before bed and had no adverse effects despite my initial concerns as a result of reading some of your posts.
No Nausea or paranoia, no husband shaped mound under the patio.......... ;)
This combination seems to be working for me....only disadvantage is as my gp switched my estrogen patches to a different brand when we decided to try the ultrogestan from the evorel sequi, The new patches are nowhere near as sticky and I have to tape them on.
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Help! :-\ I am on two pumps if gel and the progesterone from days 15-26. But if I dont have a bleed do I still just count to 28 days start at one again and take the progesterone 15-26 again? Or would it do me any harm to postpone or miss a month of progesterone cuz it makes me feel yuck and I am going on holiday! !! I am supposed to take 200mg but I am struggling with 100 and that is vaginally. If I dont stop eating I will be my own excess baggage on hols xx
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how long have you been taking it like this and have you never had a bleed a few days after stopping the Utro?
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Cassie this is my first month taking it. Its horrible. I was using the gel last month and skioped the progesterone cuz I had a special event and I just knew the progesterone worukd give me probs. My period came anyway spot on 28 days so I had a bleed last month. I swapped to using the progesterone vaginally cuz orally was brutal!!
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I know its awful. I guess a mth of skipping wont do too much harm, esp if you had a bleed last mth, but I found if I didnt take it regularly I would get a build up of the lining and resultant breakthrough bleeds which are also a nuisance and were a bit of a worry for me. I could not get past a solid 6 weeks of just the gel without a breakthrough bleed if I didnt take the utrogestan when I was scheduled to but hope it works for you. The thing is to try and take it monthly around the same time and to keep an eye on your lining as in a an annual scan to see how things are going, but as I say, if you wanting to go away and to skip a mth, I am sure it cannot do much harm, if its just the once.
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I've read through the thread but can't find the answer I'm looking for.
My Gp has prescribed 2 pumps of Oestrogel daily and 100mg of Utrogestan for 14 days. My question is will I have a bleed when I stop the Utrogestan after day 14?
As I'm now 58 and have been post-menopausal for approximately 5 years, I really don't want to return to monthly bleeds but what is the alternative? I used to take it for 25 days along with a patch but had a slight spotting and was referred for a scan etc which all turned out normal. Is it safe to be taken continously every day of the month and if so why has my Gp prescribed this particular regime for me?
Yes the 100 mg dose is for the 25/28 days use or continuous use. Yes it's fine to take it every day but some women as Dancinggirl says, find they still get spotting - and as you did. If it's only slight spotting then is this a problem?
The licensed cyclical dose is 12 days x 200 mg orally - (or vaginally if sensitive to oral use). Because I use it vaginally I take it on a longer cycle with the OK from my GP and a scan a while ago showed this was OK (but I'm beginning to worry about this a bit now due to my age...). For best control of the endometrium it is better to start with the licensed dose and see how you feel - and then if it is too strong then consult your doctor about varying this - especially if using it vaginally. The problem is many docs are unfamiliar with it and the different dosing that may be effective.
Hurdity x
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Does anyone else get mad sweats with utrogestan. Not hot flushes just hot all the time with sweat in my forehead permanenly. And I can't cool down at all!
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Hi tinkerbell yes I get hot so usually take an extra pump of gel when on utro that seems to do the trick for me xx
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Does anyone know what u do if u stop the progesterone on day 26 amd u dont have a bleed? Do I just count to day 28 then go back to 1 again amd begin the progesterone on day 15. Hope this makes . sense?
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Yes you count from the 15th of each day, why would you not have a bleed though, then your lining must be very thin, what dosage oestrogen are you on?
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Cassie I am . just way ahead of myself as usual. Anxiety overload. Had a period last month without progesterone just one pump of oestrogen. Have gradually increased it and as of yesterday I am on four pumps cuz I feel so awful. Off work now and everything.
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Cassie I am . just way ahead of myself as usual. Anxiety overload. Had a period last month without progesterone just one pump of oestrogen. Have gradually increased it and as of yesterday I am on four pumps cuz I feel so awful. Off work now and everything.
Hi Tinkerbellj, I am also using oestrogen gel and trying to find the right balance, not easy...Anyway from my experience, increasing gradually works best where anxiety is concerned. I only work up half a pump over a few weeks. I think if I had gone from 1 pump to 4 pumps in a month it would have sent me loopy...that's just my experience. So hope you feel better soon xx
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I must agree with Saffy that sounds like a lot of oestrogen, which could be adding to your anxiety....what exactly are your symptoms is it flushing, palpitations the usual or other things worrying you? Usually 2 pumps is sufficient to counteract these troublesome symptoms..... :-\ I only feel lousy when I take the Utrogestan part but that is understandable and I kinda suck it up for the 12 days per mth but not pleasant, I agree! Am sure that you will get a bleed esp if you using 4 pumps of gel, gosh do you rub that all in at once, I would run out of body space....I use one and a half pumps spread over almost my whole leg ;D
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I have been using the gel for three mi ths and slowly built up to two/three but the feeling hot all the time started again amd I have three more days left of the utrogesterone to take but I cant stop crying so I an just going to not take the last three. I was prescribed 200mg but am only taking 100 and switched to vaginally as orally was brutal. But I am just getting progressively worse. Crying all the time. Isolating myself and I have phoned into work sick and I dont want to go back ever.i upped to four pumps split into morning amd night to try to balance the progesterone but its not working. I am beginning to think I should just go on the pill
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Oh and I cant sleep at night but could sleep allday. Totally exhausted and pain all over my body
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Tinkerbellj, have you been taking the Utrogestan for 9 days now? If so, no wonder you feel the way you do, I couldn't even consider taking it for that length of time and as for the 200mg dose, forget it, it is never going to happen.
This Utrogestan dosage problem and subsequent side effects keeps rearing its ugly head doesn't it? I think the NHS are over prescribing it and how can it possibly be right for people to be prescribed the same dose irrespective of how much oestrogen they are taking?
The NHS guidelines/licensed dosage for Utrogestan needs to be reviewed urgently and they must start advising women to use it vaginally if they can because it is far more effective when used in that way and has fewer side effects.
My advice to anyone who is struggling with Utrogestan remains the same. Switch to the Professor Studd regime of 100mg vaginally for 7 days each month and then, after a few months, have a scan to make sure your lining is OK - it is always sensible to try and have a scan anyway. It may turn out that you need to take slightly more but at least you will know how well it is working and I suspect the vast majority of women will easily get enough lining clearance from the 100mg 7 day regime. I certainly do and I now stretch my cycle to 5 weeks.
I have yet to hear about a woman who has been on the Professor Studd regime and ended up with endometrial hyperplasia as a direct result of it.
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Stellajane - I actually think Utrogeston is simply not on many GPs radar - there are so many HRT preparations available it wouldn't be the first option they prescribe.
MaryG - I do worry that advising women to simply use the 7 days of 100mg Utro is a bit unwise - we are all different and, as I experienced, this low dose for fewer days can cause problematic and erratic bleeding - regular scans are essential if using so little progesterone. There dose need to be a balance of oestrogen to progesterone as well.
Using it vaginally is also tricky - I found it really irritated my bladder and made my whole vaginal area really sore.
I did find the 200mg of Utro for 12 days far too much - in fact I think Utrogestan can bring more side effects than many of the synthetic progesterones.
DG x
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DG, I take your point but I do also always suggest that women have a scan to make sure it the lower dose working OK, that is key. This regime will not suit everyone but you won't know until your try it. It is always sensible to have the occasional scan anyway to make sure everything else is OK. Obviously this only applies to women who are having problems with Utrogestan and can't cope with taking the NHS licensed dose. DG, I know you can't use it vaginally but it is definitely worth other women having a try to see if they can take it that way because it does work better at lining thinning/clearance if you can tolerate it vaginally.
Can we hear from women who have had problems with Utrogestan and have found a better synthetic alternative? That would be helpful.
Professor Studd obviously doesn't worry about prescribing this dose and he doesn't make regular scans a condition of use. He is the leading expert on HRT and all things hormonal and from what I have seen on here, no other HRT regime seems to be as successful.
It is a pity we are having to have this discussion and that something better hasn't come along. In the meantime, I think we must have a flexible approach and try to get away from the "one size fits all" rut we are in now.
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I guess this thread shows that it really is trial and error depending on your needs. I have been on 14 days Utrogestan 200mg for months now and haven't felt so well in ages. My bleeds are light but regular.
100mg made me feel terrible and the bleeding was all over the place, as were my emotions.
Look at your symptoms and your cycle would be my advice.
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Didnt take the utrogestan last night amd judging by the cramps in my tummy I will def get a bleed.......oh and didnt cry at all today! Going to see if I can get away witj taking the 100mg for 7 days. Took it for 9days this month vaginally. Bet the doc at meno clinic doesnt agree!!
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Omg I dont believe it 9days vaginal utrogestan and three days later a period woo hoo my body works. Was sure it wouldn't happen. Def trying the 7 days next month! ! The less the better.
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That's good news! The more I hear about using it vaginally the
more I think I should give it a go.
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I have been feeling really low, anxious and paranoid. I have also had a week of mild cramps but no period. I assume that this is my own progesterone causing this since it's four weeks since I took any Utrogestan. I see that some people use four pumps of gel and wonder whether that might be worth trying?
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Has anyone had headaches and nausea from the ostrogel? Ive read on the leaflet in the box they can be side effects. I've been using it since last Oct and use 2 pumps a day. For the last 3 days I've felt dreadful nausea, headaches, exhaustion and just plain grim. I have not had these symptoms since I started using it and they weren't symptoms for me before hrt! Therefore I'm guessing I've got a bug and it's not hormone related?!? It does feel a bit hormonal though but don't really know what to do. I see Studd in 2 weeks for a check up so I guess I'll ask him. Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts if this might be hormonal or not. It's all a bit random I've been feeling brilliant so came out of nowhere apart from the very humid weather we had in the south last week...I use 100mg of utro X 7 days vaginally and I'm due to use again from 1st July so it's not that as that can give me headaches and nausea too X
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No and have been on it for yrs I think we tend to blame our HRT sometimes when in fact its not related, hope that you feel better soon.
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Thank you! Hubby keeps telling me it's a bug but you're right I do tend to instantly jump to hormones with everything I get/have. I'd convinced myself that as I'm on low dose utro that I was now ostrogen dominant hence the symptoms! Feel free to tell me to get a grip ;Dx
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If I only been three days then I would say a virus. Give it a few more days and try to rest as much as possible
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Thank you I'll try hard with 2 little boys and one is a v busy 2 year old :o X
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Ah yes, that should be a doddle then! I really do sympathise x
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Everytime I take any HRT I get sort of lights in eyes when I wake up , ?
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Ok so stopped utrogestrone on 19 th took my leriod and since 25th I have had a blinding headache and really low mood. Still takin the oestrogen but feel like something has shifted and getting no benefit from it at all. Cant sleep hot all day-not flushes just all day amd continual crying and oh the exhaustion. What is going on???
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Tinkerbellj, the 19th was only just over a week ago and (presumably) you are now at the tail end of your period so, in my opinion, you still have a fair amount of Utrogestan in your system. Contrary to what it says in the patient information leaflet, Utrogestan stays in your system for a long time and it is not unusual to not feel abnormal until a few days after your period finishes. Re the sweat/flushes, Utrogestan will oppose the Oestrogel and make it less effective so that could explain why you are getting those symptoms.
Looking back at your posts, you say you took Utrogestan for 9 days, what dose was that? It is cumulative and builds up in your system and hangs around in you womb for quite a while when taken vaginally and although it will mainly be confined to the womb, some will leak out into your overall system.
It is vital to find your own threshold with Utrogestan, everyone is so different and it is impossible to know how much you need until your try different doses and then have a scan to make sure it is working properly. One size never has, and never will fit all with Utrogestan and my body says "I don't need any more of this stuff" far sooner than it might for some.
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Mary g I was supposed to take 200mg orally but side effects were so bad I changed to 100mg vaginally. This was my first time using it. My.period came but wasnt heavy at all. Only lasted a few days but as soon as the bleeding stopped the headache started. I am so low this is awful. I upped my oestrogen to three /four pumps while.using the progesterone amd am.going to stay on three now. Meno clinic.appt on Tuesday so will see what they think. Not holding my.breath for any revelations mind u but.hoping to get testosterone gel prescribed x
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Tinkerbellj, sorry for the questions but did you place the Utrogestan capsule right next to your cervix? How heavy are your periods when you take it orally? Do you feel any worse taking it vaginally?
If you normally take 200mg orally but this month took 100mg vaginally (and assuming none of it came out) then you are getting roughly the same dose as before because none of it is getting lost in your digestive system.
I have to confess to being slighted baffled but wonder if you are very, very severely intolerant to synthetic/artificial progesterone? Have you ever tried any other types of progesterone with the gel or been on any other type of HRT (containing progesterone) that had a different affect on you?
Testosterone may help with mood, libido etc. but you need to get to the bottom of this.
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This is the first month I have used it. I know I have never been able to take the pill and I suspect I am severely intolerant. I did explain this to my.doc. This is my 6th attempt at an hrt. The gel is fine although I still am.not jumping for.joy or anything close but I did take the progesterone. Close to the cervix. My periods r usually heavy and painful bit this one wasmtr heavy at all and uncomfortable but not agony. This is the only separate progesterone I have tried. Well . except. For mirema.coil which was a disaster
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Oh and thank u so much for taking the time to read and reply I appreciate it xx
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Tinkerbellj, I'm afraid it sounds like you are very severely intolerant. I have had two Mirena coils and never felt good but obviously it became intolerable once the migraines started. They did subside once I started the patches but I don't know how well it would have worked with the Oestrogel - I certainly would not risk having another one fitted.
My advice is to try the Utrogestan again (vaginally) next month but do 100mg for 7 days instead of 9. See if it makes any difference and then, after a few months, you could have a scan to make sure your lining is clearing properly. I should point out that this is the Professor Studd regime and the NHS will try and get you to take more.
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Do I still do the 7 days starting at day 15?
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Am annoyed this morning, but my own doing. I have been pushing starting the Utrogestan, at least a week past my usual date, and lo and behold I am now bleeding, seems to happen, if I do not keep my Utro dosage to the same date, very strange....am going to keep using them just through the bleed am hoping it stalls it and I can get back on track... :-\
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How much oestrogen are you using Tinkerbellj? Your feelings could partly be due to the drop in oestrogen which occurs in the second half of the cycle and starts to rise as the bleed begins - so many women feel low at least week before and a week after their period starts - in addition to any effect they might feel on the progesterone - or even just due to the oestrogen levels. if you are peri-menopausal there are so many variables going on it's difficult to pinpoint exactly why you are feeling as you are.
Hurdity x
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Tinkerbellj, I would start the Utrogestan on day 15 if that is a month after the last lot.
Cassie, don't worry, that happened to me a few times while trying to do a long cycle. How long is it since you last used Utrogestan?
I use two pumps of gel but can't go much more than 5 weeks without shedding automatically. I have tried two things, leaving it to take its course but the downside of that is that is turned into an elongated period that lasted for 2 weeks and then completely stopped. Alternatively, you can start the Utrogestan immediately which will delay things until you stop and then you should have a normal type of bleed. I have tried both and had a scan afterwards and all was absolutely fine.
I spoke to my gynaecologist about this and she said that some women have good womb receptors which shed without the use of progesterone - I shed without progesterone at about 7mm. Obviously she does not recommend going without progesterone but did say that I don't need anything like as much progesterone as some of her other patients.
So it's all about finding your own personal threshold and then sticking with it.
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Thanks for that info Mary, I seem to shed just on 5 weeks automatically and have really been pushing my luck. When this happened before, I also carried on hoping it would stop but it didnt so am going to use the Utrogestan to sort things out and try and get back into a cycle. I envy ladies who can push past the 4 week mark, but I just cannot. I think my womb would shed automatically on 4 weeks without the progesterone. Perhaps I can try and tone down, using it for less days, what dose do you take?
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Cassie, I take 100mg Utrogestan (always vaginally) for 7 days every 5 weeks but to be honest, I have cheated like mad in the past! One month I only took 1 capsule because of a migraine (just couldn't face taking any more) and it was still enough to give me a regular bleed 6 days later. Others will disagree with me but I think the progesterone part of HRT is way over-prescribed and only you will know how much you need is by trial and error and having a scan to make sure you are shedding properly. I would never encourage anyone to take unnecesary risks.
I know what you mean when you say you think you would shed automatically without progesterone, I probably would too but the downside of that is the very long period (classic sign of low progesterone) and my gynaecologist said some of the lining can get left behind. Still, it is good to know that you can take less and not ruin what is otherwise a magic formula.
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Thats a lovely dose, I have been on 12 x 100mg for ages, but after my next scan I am going to see if I cannot come down to perhaps a few less days and see if it still keeps the lining thin, am sure it will.
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I was using two pumps and upped it to three during period but am going to keep it at three mow two in morning one at night. Feel much better today still emotional bit mot so uncontrollably angry
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Stellajane, it just shows how some women react well to low doses of Utrogestan and others don't. I'm glad your new regime is going well, 200mg was obviously too much for you hence the better bladder and fewer overall side effects. I have found that Utrogestan is very powerful when used vaginally and not very effective when used orally. I also found it gave me far too many unpleasant side effects when used orally.
Tinkerbellj, I'm glad you are feeling better and I hope it continues - the effects of the Utrogestan must have worn off.
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Mary G.....was your bleed, am meaning the one you had when you were being naughty and not taking the Utrogestan 4 weekly, also very much heavier? Wow....this is awful, the flood gates have literally opened! Were out with friends last night and had to keep dashing to the ladies room for damage control, really unpleasant. Day 3 of the Utrogestan, doesn't seem to be stalling the flow yet but am keeping everything crossed.... ;) forgotten what its like to have such a heavy bleed as the usual post Utro one is a few days but not nearly as heavy as this.... >:(
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Cassie, when I didn't take ANY Utrogestan while trying to go for the long cycle, it was the same volume of blood but it took 2 weeks to come out, what I would call a slow burner!
When I took just ONE capsule of Utrogestan vaginally (having ditched it because of a migraine) it was a normal period for the normal length of time with the same volume of blood.
I have only started having lighter periods since I dropped from 3 pumps of gel to 2.
It doesn't sounds like you are going to have much lining left after this. Hope that helps.
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Yes I cannot go long cycle this has happened before and I was silly enough to push it again. Will def have to stay on my 4 weekly Utrogestan x 12 days and see what the scan shows when I have one later this year, thx ladies, its a real schlepp.
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Phew the flood seems to be tapering off now on day 4 of the Utrogestan, am hoping we are back on track now after this little blip :-\
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How many people use 4 pumps of oestrogel? I upped it a week or do ago when I was feeling horrible (peri so my own progesterone I think) and am now on the Utrogestan phase and feeling good instead of low and paranoid.
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Just to add that if you do not take progesterone as part of HRT and you are post-menopausal and you start to bleed - this is likely to be oestrogen breakthrough bleeding (amongst other possible reasons such as fibroids or polyps) rather than progesterone withdrawal bleeding. If so, this is abnormal uterine bleeding (whereas prog withdrawal bleeding is normal), and could be an indication of a thickened lining whereby the endometrium builds up and spontaneously sheds after thickening too much. This is why it takes longer and there is no guarantee that it will all be shed as it won't have been converted from proliferative to secretory endometrium (as happens when you take progestogens). It is the proliferative - growing - endometrium stimulated by oestrogen that can lead to endometrial hyperplasia which can sometimes lead to cancer - so is a greater risk in some women.
There not taking progesterone or taking it on a longer cycle, or for a shorter time than recommended should not be attempted without proper medical supervision and with regular scans to check the uterus lining.
Hurdity x
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Excellent post Hurdity. A clear outline of the consequences of not using progesterone properly. Professional advice and supervision is absolutely crucial if you want to experiment with HRT doses. DG x
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Hello,
I'm a newbie and been poring over these boards for the last three months re my hrt regime.
I was initially put on 1mg of estradiol gel and 100mg x2 of Utrogestan starting mid April. I've perservered with the horrible bloating and increased 1 dress size to 16, and it seemed to be levelling out. Since I started I increased to 1.5mg of oestradiol. In last week or so Ive experienced night sweats and low mood and yesterday increased to 2mg. I will be seeing gp about this but is this safe to do.
My other questions are:
1. Should I go on antidepressants as I still feel low moods, and I do not feel like a 'new woman' or back to my old self, as my youngish female GP suggested I would experience.
2. Should I have blood tests and scan now that it's been over 3 months?
3. When does day 1 start? On day 1 of start of breakthrough bleed or after day 28. I asked my GP but she wasn't sure and said to take Utrogestan around same time each month. But won't that mean more estradiol days if a month has 5 weeks - really confused.
4. Are there any seminars or real- time support networks available in London.
5. And a random one, I was an amitious, creative woman before all this started, and now my life has come to a complete halt. I look at the TV and see these older women at the top of their game in politics and business, and wonder how they do it. I don't hv children, and not currently working. I don't know what to say to people when they ask about what I've been up to, especially younger people or acquaintances. Anybody relate to this?
I hope to hear from someone soon. Thank you in advance for any responses.
Chikabee
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I take day 1 as the 1st day of the mth....perhaps its too much progesterone, 2 x 100 mg if you have access for an annual scan you could perhaps then take 100mg x 12 days and see if that makes you feel better....you dont say how many days you were taking the utrogestan but you could drop down to 12
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Hello Chikabee and welcome to the forum.
I am not one of the expert ladies so I won't comment on your HRT query but I will say that I too look at other women and wonder how they do it. At the moment I seem to be seeing contented old couples everywhere and I wonder how they got to such a place as I seem to be permanently irritable and on edge with my husband!
Perhaps we find a new and equally fulfilling version of normal as we move through the menopause! Older women say it does get better and I'm pinning my hopes on that.
Wishing you well.
K.
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I take utrogestin along with sandrena . I was told day one is first day of proper bleed I take utrogestin from days 21-27 a 100mg as I am intolerant to it and anymore I would probably top myslelf.
I am also waiting for this me women to appear , and am very saddened by what seems to be my new normal, lost interest in most things.
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Hello All
Chipping in with my experience - a good one.
I was put on Oestrogen + Utrogestan in 2012 by a Swiss gynaecologist: one pump and a bit per day of gel and twice a week of Utro vaginally. I am intolerant of progesterone; blow up like a balloon and get breast pain. But spreading out the Utro the way I'm doing is working wonderfully well - no more insomnia, no more vaginal atrophy, no brain fog. I feel I'm getting the benefits of the oestrogen without the progesterone downside.
I take the utro on Monday and Thursday nights after climbing into bed, having applied the gel on alternating thighs during my last trip to the loo before bedtime.
I get regular lining scans and they always range from 2.5mm to 3mm. And this Swiss way, which the doctor said is a normal regime throughout France, Switzerland and Italy, produces no bleed - it keeps the lining thin on its own.
I don't think I would want to subject myself to the raging PMT-style symptoms I would have by taking it for seven consecutive days, as advised by Prof Studd. This Swiss doctor was adamant that this regime would be best for me and, four years later, I'm feeling great with no postmenopausal symptoms.
Hope this helps!
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I would def get spotting using the Utrogestan in this manner....
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Very interesting Smarlo
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At my meno clinic today so thats me up to four pumps a day. And utrogestan for seven days every other month 200mg vaginally and also testosterone. The doc was brilliant. Although it isn't licenced in uk to take like this she is happy to let me try it and actually.spoke to me like I had a brain cells. Just have to hope it works. Fingers crossed
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Hi smarlo
:welcomemm:
Sounds interesting - but of course as you have been doing this under a gynaecologist and having regular scans that's fine. It would be lovely if every woman could have personalised treatment but sadly the NHS cannot afford this. Do you live in UK or did you travel to Switzerland for your (presumably private) treatment?
A few years ago I used to take Cyclogest as the progesterone part of my HRT - before utrogestan was widely available and when I trialled reducing my oestrogen dose to a 25 mcg patch and taking progesterone on a conti basis, I took the Cyclogest (progesterone pessaries) every other night - or might have been every third night. I arrived at this after reseraching on here - there was another woman doing the same thing - and my GP was happy. I only took this for a few months but I didn't have any breakthrough bleeding. The regular amount of progesterone did seem to work.
I presume in your case the dose of oestrogen you are absorbing is very low hence that amount of progesterone is sufficient?
Hurdity x
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Thanks all for replies to my original query.
I spoke to my GP to ask about whether I can increase Estradiol to 2mg from 1.5mg, and she said 1.5mg is max recommendation. She suggested seeing my Gynaecologist Dr Panay re further advice, even as a private patient I've been offered an appointment in December :-\
Incidentally, someone asked below, I am on 100mg x 2Utrogestan for day 15-26. The bloating is horrendous but manageable now. I have gained weight, I hope if I can get out to do some exercise and lose weight the bloating will not be too bad.
My GP said I should not drink alcohol as this will contribute to night sweats/disturbed sleep. She said to consult this forum for more advice. Are you gals off alcohol? I don't drink loads, maybe 1 or 2 a month socially.
I don't think the hrt is helping with mood/depression. I'm 46, blimey, and GP says hrt is important for bone health etc. I will try acupuncture again, but what other remedies have people been trying? Why is mood still affected if you are supplementing with HRT?
Also, some posters talk about Testosterone, what does that specifically help with?
Thanks
Chikabee
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Chickabee I am now up to four pumps of oestrogel and Utrogestan 100 for 7 days. It's not perfect and has taken a lot of tweaking, but my moods are better. I am in peri. This month I decided to use the Utrogestan vaginally and now, three days after finishing the Utrogestan I have a period! A proper one! (After months of nothing. I assume upping the oestrogel plus more progesterone getting to where it's needed by the vaginal route has done that). And I am going on holiday tomorrow.......so that's great timing :)
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Thanks 😀
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Trufflecat.same.regeime as me now plus I am . adding. Testosterone. Fingers crossed!! Only habe to take the progesterone every other month ciz I am intolerant. Supposed to be 200mg for 7 days but we will see :-\
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Good luck tinkerbellj
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I just posted the question below on a different part of the site and then found this thread - don't know why I hadn't seen this before but it looks like someone here will be able to answer - thank you!
Hello all,
Is anyone who is post-meno taking Utrogestan for 7 days out of 28 which I believe is the regime that Prof John Stubbs advocates? I have taken Utrogestan continuously for some years now but I think it is contributing to low mood and 'brain fog' - so last week I decided to take a break having read on John Stubbs website about the seven days each month - and whether coincidental or not - have felt hugely better since. I take 2 squirts of oestrogel daily as well. Thanks!
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Fullmoon - yes you could try Studd's regime. You should get a withdrawal bleed each month but you should also be under the supervision of a gynaecologist if you do this regime - it is a much lower dose and number of days than is recommended by NICE - quite a few of us have tried this regime and found we get problematic bleeding and spotting as the womb lining can build up too much. Many of us do prefer to use a sequential HRT well into post meno because using progesterone continuously can cause side effects. Most ladies who do well with the this lower dose by using the Utrogestan vaginally which tends to be more effective but some find it can irritate the bladder and vaginal area.
It's probably worth trying it for 7-10 days vaginally but do talk to your gynae first. DG x
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Thank you for your reply - much appreciated. Getting access to a gynae might be a problem given my experience of GPs to date - but am seeing GP next week so I'll give it a go - in the meantime I'll try and 7-10 days and see what happens. I've been 7 days off the progesterone now and no bleed yet.
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The licensed dose for utrogestan is 12 days x 200 mg per 28 day cycle. As you have read and Dancinggirl points out this can be varied by specialist gynaecologists but it is imperative that you are monitored at least initially - but definitely annually to see how your body reacts re uterus lining. Did you take the 7 days orally and what dose? How many cycles have you tried? It may be that as it is the first cycle you won't get a bleed if the Utro has been keeping your lining thin the last few years. I certainly would not advocate 7 days orally in the long term for someone who is post-menopausal without adequate medical supervision and certainly not 100 mg.
Hurdity x
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Can anyone advise me please, I've been using Utrogestan vaginally for 5 months now & use a vaginal applicator from a canestan pack to insert but for some reason this month the capsules are melting before I insert them fully and therefore it is sticking to the applicator and I then have to re insert but by then the capsule is too melted and well stuck to the applicator & ends up quite a mess and a right faff just before bed as I have to pick it off the applicator and push in with my finger & I find if I use my finger I can't get it high enough. Sorry about TMI :o Anyone else have this problem and how do you solve it? Can I put the Utrogestan in the fridge?? This might make it less prone to instant melting??
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No def not, why would they melt, just shove them in and go to sleep takes 2 seconds, I dont use an applicator, just shove them in, I am not sure how far they supposed to go in, but been working fine for many yrs and I dont think, they are going in too far at all.... the finger works just fine....they melt during the night and one will pass the leftovers out in the first wee of the morning.... :D
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Could your applicator be even slightly damp and causing the melting?
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Hi Thanks for your replies, Trufflecat I did consider about it being damp but I don't think it is as I dry it thoroughly using a cotton bud to get inside & then leave to air dry throughout the day. I've always done it the same way and never had an issue until this month, I'm on day 8 now & I've had 7 of them disintegrate & stick inside the applicator 😭. I wonder if it's a dodgy batch? Or if it's because the weather is warmer? Our bedroom where I keep them is very warm :-\
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Could be that then. Just warm enough for them to melt when touched.
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Ditto as Cassie. No need to use an applicator - just poke them up as far as you can ( and I have small hands ie short fingers!) - but of course when you are in bed. The coating is probably designed to become sticky when damp to aid adherence to the vaginal wall perhaps, so that it doesn't fall out immediately?
Hurdity x
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Well I gave up on the applicator last night & used my fingers, it stayed in but I never feel I push it up high enough. I guess it must still absorb. I have cut down to 100 × 12 days for the first time this month instead of 200 as I was suffering with awful withdrawal resulting in low mood & migraines in the few days while waiting for the bleed so it'll be interesting to see if that happens this month or if it does hopefully not as severely :-\
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Hi,
Newby to this forum, but grateful for your help!
Wondering if someone can advise please? I am on 100mg Utrogestan continuously after being referred to a consultant at our local Meno clinic. I am 42, having had premature ovarian failure at 38 (all my bits are in tact, but my FSH levels on blood test were only 7!). GP & Consultant said given those levels, I was through meno, but after starting new regime of Sandrena (2 x 1mg gel sachets - recently increased to 3, due to continuing limb aches) and 100mg daily of Utrogestan progesterone, plus Testim testosterone gel, I have just started my second period - a bit weird, as she said I wouldn't have a bleed on continuous progesterone (and also added that there is no benefit at all to creating a bleed artificially anyway if through meno!)???
What do you make of that? I feel fine now the Sandrena is up to 3 mg daily, but wasn't expecting the bleed given the continuous progesterone. Do you think it might settle, or is something else going on?
Thanks for any help :-), - Fruitie-baby
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Well this morning I woke up to a bleed on day 10 after trying my first month on 100 x12 days of Utrogestan instead of my usual 200 x 12 which has worked absolutely perfectly for me regarding bleeding etc, the only reason I cut down to 100 was due to terrible withdrawal migraines. Now what I would like to know ladies is 1. Do I stop taking the Utrogestan now after 10 days? I would've thought if I'm bleeding there would be little point in continuing :-\ and 2. What do I do next month? Go back up to 200 x 12? I'm also a little concerned that the bleeding could've been due to the utrogestan not being absorbed properly as I posted earlier that I was having problems using my applicator this month and therefore alot of the Utro was dissolving and getting stuck inside the applicator & when I insert using my finger I don't think it's getting up high enough?? So it could've been this that has triggered the bleed? Any ideas or advice appreciated, thank you ladies, I'm off on holiday end of August and don't want to upset things.
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I don't think the hrt is helping with mood/depression. I'm 46, blimey, and GP says hrt is important for bone health etc. I will try acupuncture again, but what other remedies have people been trying? Why is mood still affected if you are supplementing with HRT?
Also, some posters talk about Testosterone, what does that specifically help with?
Thanks
Chikabee
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Hi - I'm going to see my gynae today to find out about vaginal Utrogestan, but after 3.5 months I still don't think I have resolved the mood / anxiety / depression issues. Do you think adjusting to an increased hrt regime will help or should I go on antidepressants.
(I've include quote from previous quote as would really love to hear other's experience, or if you can direct me to relevant thread).
Thanks C
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Chikabee - if the HRT is controlling the normal meno symptoms e.g. flushes, then if you mood is still low you may need to try a SRRI alongside - My gynae suggested I try Citalopram if HRT wasn't helping. Many women do well with both an SRRI with HRT - I believe HRT cannot solve everything and low mood and depression isn't always to do with the meno.
Increasing HRT dosage may not help and can sometimes cause other issues and problems. Trying a different type of HRT may be an option as Utrogstan doesn't suit everyone - you could try Provera instead??
Testosterone helps with libido and fatigue I think - Hurdity is the one to ask about this.
DG x
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Chikabee, what type/dose of oestrogen are you taking and how much Utrogestan? I have been on HRT for about 9 years and I was post menopause by the time I was your age.
From my own personal experience, it is vital to get the oestrogen/progesterone ratio right and I have found that if I take too much progesterone, it has a drag factor, brings down my mood and drowns out all the positive effects of the oestrogen - it also causes migraines but that is another issue.
Through trial and error, I have also found that I need high blood levels of oestrogen to feel good i.e. be well into the 700s. Anything less than that is useless for me and I feel half baked and not quite there.
It has taken me years to find the right HRT regime but since starting the Professor Studd regime of Oestrogel/Utrogestan/Testosterone, I don't have any menopause symptoms and feel roughly the same as I did aged 30 even though I am 55. If you still have menopause symptoms or don't feel as good as you think you should then you probably need to adjust the dose or change your regime altogether. If you still feel depressed with higher levels of oestrogen you could then consider taking ADs but my advice would be to rule out low oestrogen first.
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Looking for advise on this, I was in Femoston for 2 yrs all ok but few stomach issues so GP and I decided to keep away from tablets and switch to oestrogel 2 pumps a day and Utrogeston which I thought would have been 200mg for 12 days but my script says 1 X 100mg a day for 14 days, is that too low or is anyone else on that? I had wanted this regime for a while but other female GP didn't know anything and this male GP I got was all for it so I was pleased, he did say he emailed someone in the know about it to double check it was right but everything I read says 200mg for 12 days, I'm 46 peri meno for four yrs now, periods were every 3/4 months then started hrt which brought me back to monthly cycle but had been back to every few months past 7 months don't think I was getting full benefit orally
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Well this morning I woke up to a bleed on day 10 after trying my first month on 100 x12 days of Utrogestan instead of my usual 200 x 12 which has worked absolutely perfectly for me regarding bleeding etc, the only reason I cut down to 100 was due to terrible withdrawal migraines. Now what I would like to know ladies is 1. Do I stop taking the Utrogestan now after 10 days? I would've thought if I'm bleeding there would be little point in continuing :-\ and 2. What do I do next month? Go back up to 200 x 12? I'm also a little concerned that the bleeding could've been due to the utrogestan not being absorbed properly as I posted earlier that I was having problems using my applicator this month and therefore alot of the Utro was dissolving and getting stuck inside the applicator & when I insert using my finger I don't think it's getting up high enough?? So it could've been this that has triggered the bleed? Any ideas or advice appreciated, thank you ladies, I'm off on holiday end of August and don't want to upset things.
What did you decide to do in the end? I would carry on and finish the course even if you start bleeding - usually best to take the whole course because while you are taking progesterone it stops the uterus lining from building up so much. Horrible re the migraine. I sympathise. I've got one this month :(. Woke up with it this morning after one night with no utro. If you put the utro in with your finger then it will defo go high enough. You really don't need an applicator and I've never been given one - although the licensed way is oral use. My packets never come with an applicator anyway.
Hurdity x
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Looking for advise on this, I was in Femoston for 2 yrs all ok but few stomach issues so GP and I decided to keep away from tablets and switch to oestrogel 2 pumps a day and Utrogeston which I thought would have been 200mg for 12 days but my script says 1 X 100mg a day for 14 days, is that too low or is anyone else on that? I had wanted this regime for a while but other female GP didn't know anything and this male GP I got was all for it so I was pleased, he did say he emailed someone in the know about it to double check it was right but everything I read says 200mg for 12 days, I'm 46 peri meno for four yrs now, periods were every 3/4 months then started hrt which brought me back to monthly cycle but had been back to every few months past 7 months don't think I was getting full benefit orally
Your GP is wrong. It is 200 mg for 12 days per 28 day cycle. So that is 2 x 100mg capsules. The confusion is because the 200 mg is no longer made except for fertility even though it is exactly the same! Here is the SPC (Summary of Product Characteristics) produced by the manufacturer. Can't understand why your doc got this so wrong. http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/19895/SPC
If you are progesterone intolerant and under a specialist gynae then this dose can be varied under supervision - but best to start with recommended dose and take it from there.
Hurdity x
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Hurdity
Thanks for reply, I did think that. I will give him a call discuss again, X
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Just wondering if anybody else has experienced a sharp increase in palpitations when using Utrogestan
During my last Utro use (100mg v-route x 12 nights) the palpitations were through the roof, day and night. I'm highly progesterone intolerant so this new horrid side effect is most unwelcome!
Last year I had a 24 hour heart monitor re: palps - apparently I have extra heart beats. Also low BP.
Assuming it's due to the drop in estrogen, also I've been under a huge amount of stress recently (father had a stroke).
Anybody else experienced similar re: palps/Utro?
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It definitely makes me feel more wired up so to speak, I feel like I have had a really strong cup of coffee at bedtime, so could well be from the Utro if you are esp sensitive yes.
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Thanks Cassie - yes, I get the wired but tired feeling on Utro.
The palps must be due to the Utro negating the estrogen as they did lessen after I finished the course.
For anybody who may be interested re: palpitations - I found reference to 'York Cardiology' on a previous informative MM thread - very useful and reassuring videos from Dr Gupta, York Cardiology:
https://www.youtube.com/results'search_query=york+cardiology
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Hi all, I'm 53 and have recently started hrt - 1 X 1mg sandrena gel every day and 1 X 100mg utrogestan capsule from day 14-28. IT all started off ok, in that the flushes and night sweats stopped immediately, and I feel less flat mood wise, but 3 months in and I feel like I've ballooned in weight and my boobs are very tender - I must have gone up a cup size. I exercise everyday and eat a very healthy diet so don't really need to change anything there. Does anyone have a similar experience, and if so any suggestions on how to fix it???
I've also been reading about testosterone gel improving libido, anyone out there tried it? Would welcome any thoughts!!!!! X
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LIZ:Try switch to continuous regimen....100mg utro every night (can take 3 day break for utro at end of month if needed- you can research this to discuss with your doctor). It is a great diuretic and can keep weight down. Unopposed estrogen for 2 wks every month cause estrogen-type changes in a female body like bloating, weight gain, increased breast, yeast infections, etc. Cyclic regimens are popular for perimenopause and those postmeno who can't tolerate side effects from progesterone but there are many women who have no problems taking utro orally every night. Some even like it this way as evidenced by comments on this site. If you are post meno as your age suggests, you are a good candidate for continuous regimen.
I was once prescribed the equivalent of Sandrena (Divigel 1mg) with utro every night. It caused me to have headaches so I switched to patches. Thus, I know it is a possibility to take HRT this way.
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Hi Liz T
:welcomemm:
In fact many women find the opposite to be the case from what andius says - which shows how different we are in reaction to added HRT and even our own (endogenous) hormones! Many women get bloating and fluid retention during the second half of the menstrual cycle when progesterone is present and high. I certainly do when I am on the progesterone phase of my HRT - I really bloat up, my boobs expand, I pee a lot and I am relieved once it has left my system and my body returns to normal!
As andius says - you don't know until you try a different regime which is best for you. I would have thought the side effects of oestrogen would have settled by now.
Re cup size - this is a normal part of taking HRT - after all oestrogen is responsible for the development of our breast tissue and what makes us female. Boobs tend to shrink and become floppy as oestrogen falls in menopause. Is there a pattern to the tenderness - because the only thing that is changing throughout the month is the introduction and then cessation of progesterone?
I use testosterone gel and I had a thread about it in private lives here:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27959.60.html
Do ask any questions on that thread if you would like - as it is of a personal nature and this is the public part of the forum! Also if you go to the home page of the forum and put "Testosterone" into the search box you will find some threads. Try to choose those with Testosterone in the title as it is mentioned in huge numbers of general posts.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Thank you both :) x
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Hi Everyone!
I have an appointment next week with GP. I have been on Everol conti 50 (Im 5 yrs post meno and 49 and still have womb) since April but I did have to have a break from it after 6 weeks due to bad side effects. I have spoken to my GP about using the more bio-identical HRT and now I want to go armed with the info on which ones and dosage etc. Can anyone help? Also I would like to know if the testerone gel helps with libido (mine has been at zero for years) and which one of those to ask for if it helps? TIA Clare
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The Utrogestan confused my GP. She found it under 'micronised progesterone'.
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clare663, if you want bio identical, transdermal HRT I would ask for Oestrogel, Utrogestan (micronised progesterone) and Testosterone. I feel very, very good on this regime and it the best I have used by far so that is why I would recommend it - it has taken me years to finally get there.
Why didn't you get on with Evorel and how well do you tolerate synthetic/artificial progesterone? The reason I ask is because I only use 100mg Utrogestan vaginally for 7 days every 5 weeks and that is probably why I feel so good! Any more Utrogestan than that would make this regime completely unviable for me and I would have to have a hysterectomy but of course you may well be different but it is worth thinking about depending on what problems you had with Evorel.
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Hi Stellajane - That was my first post and I looked for replies / reaction but didn't see any until now. Clicking on the blue reply tab at the bottom of the page so hoping this works.
No spotting on this regime. No bleed and no spotting.
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Hi folks - Really flummoxed about how to reply to the replies I got to my initial post - found on page 52. There must be a simple trick to it so please let me know.
Hurdity - I was in Switzerland when first put on Estrogel and Utrogestan in 2012. I have been back in London and on the NHS since September, 2013. I have continued with one pump of estrogel daily and 100mg of Utrogestan vaginally three times per week, spread out through the week. Lining still below 5 with the twice-yearly scans provided by NHS.
I am also in Dr Panay's menopause clinic at the Queen Charlotte in west London but have only managed to see him once. One member of his team tried to get me to boost Utrogestan to 100mg per day but I experienced instant bloat and massive breast pain on a one-month trial of this regime.
So I reverted to the Swiss gynaecologist's advice: one pump estrogel and three 100mg utrogestan per week. She (gyro) assured me that this was the protocol successfully followed in France, Switzerland, Italy, Belgium and Germany.
My only problem on it was initial weight gain - boobs up a cup size and all over chubbiness. That settled down initially but is now back with a vengeance, even though i'm working out (resistance training / aqua aerobics / pilates / yoga). The only thing I have changed, on the advice of a doctor at the meno clinic, is applying the gel to my inner thighs instead of inner forearms. My thighs are chunkier than usual and layered in cellulite. Could the local application of estrogel be the culprit?
Await your advice everyone with many thanks!
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Ta Stellajane - dang-blasted postmenopause; hits us all so differently. Just when you think all is chugging along well, a problem rears up. I'm frightened to again try boosting Estrogel to two pumps and increasing progesterone because I blow up and my boobs get very painful. ARgggghhh. And the meno docs seem to have a standard response: "Hmmm, it shouldn't cause that (whatever) to happen"...
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I've been googling around trying to determine if my switch to putting Estrogel on my inner thighs instead of inner forearms is a factor in my fat growth in my thighs. Found this, written by a naturopath, in an article about cellulite:
Premenopausal women with too much estrogen tend to have the pear-shape body type with more weight at the hips. The reason for this comes down to fat, both the type and the amount. Consider that women have almost nine times the amount of alpha receptors for every one beta receptor in their hip and thigh region. When stimulated, alpha receptors cause fat cells to produce fat, while beta receptors breakdown fat. This is also the area with the most estrogen receptors.
I'm going to revert to application on forearms after a two-week break from Estrogel. Will continue Utrogestan three times a week (I had recently reduced it to two times but think that wasn't enough opposition to oestrogen). Will post again if there's any noticeable difference. You never know, someone else might be accumulating more fat on hips and thighs too by applying the gel to inner thighs.
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I have been applying the gel on my thighs for yrs no extra fat thankfully. Can you explain your hrt regime, you mention a 2 week break and only every few days for utrogestan, do you keep bleed free like that?
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Anyone else using four pumps of oestrogel? I upped it due to feeling particularly horrendous mood wise one month and then lowered it back to two, then back up to four permanently as it means I am far less moody. It's also given me a proper period, so I suspect that two pumps wasn't enough to build up my endometrium. Is four pumps a really high dose though?
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Hi I Would love to join you all.
Apologies for jumping in at the deep end but I've been struggling for 4 years with Peri meno
I'm 47 and had gone 11 months without a period before starting HRT last year.
And haven't found one that suits me yet I've tried 4 now, patches, pills different strengths etc...
I've always had migraines before my period but they've been getting worse so finally the doc refered me to a specialist.
So after seeing him i had to take progesterone tablet for 7 days to induce a bleed if I needed one, which it didn't.
and then use Estrogel and Vagifem upping the dose from 1 pump to 4 if needed every 2 weeks.
I'm not due to see him again till mid September, but he recommended I look at this site!
I'm a week in on 1 pump and I'm feeling worse not better, been no improvement at all in sleep, anxiety, low energy, hot flushes etc.
And after reading here I'm wondering why I haven't been given progesterone also like a lot of you, I'm wondering if it's because I hadn't had a period for 11 months or he's trying to keep my hormones level to help my migraines?
Does anyone remember how long it took to have an effect?
Im also wondering if I should up it to 2, I know it's only a week but I'm desperate to feel some improvement.
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Hi there,if you still have your womb then you need progesterone too. Surely the specialist must have perscribe it . :-\
If not you need to get back to him and query this I think.
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Hello - I'm new to posting ... I've read this site with interest for the last 9 months or so.
At the age of 45 I was diagnosed as being Peri-menopasal after being told by a consultant gynae at the age of 43 he thought I was (due to a low Anit Mulerian test when I was 36). At 43 I came off my pill had a blood test which was normal - thought he must have been wrong(!) then in November last year was hit like a train with no energy or interest in most things totally exhausted and bloods lead to my diagnosis.
I have an understanding GP and after patches which just didn't stick went onto two various types of tablets that I've just not got there with, I've always struggled with the Progesterone side. And at first suffered with not enough Oestrogen. In April I was referred to a Menopause clinic (which was really just a consultation with a rather unhelpful female Consultant who said my energy would slow down naturally as am I getting older!!!) she put me on 4 pumps of Estrogel and 200mg orally of Utrogestan days 15-26 to have a bleed generally about days 3 days after stopping the prog. I'm very down and emotional on the progesterone generally and then suffer a massive mood drop after ending the prog. I feel after 3.5 months of Estorogel my brain fog and ability to function is so much better - I really did lose it for a while. I do generally feel bloated tho and this isn't ideal - I'm of a slim frame and put the gel on my arms and thighs.
I have previously been diagnosed with endometriosis, I couldn't have children due to low fertility (age 36) and have particularly heavy periods and a small fibroid - diagnosed by scan in 2013.
All of the emotions associated with all of this has just become too much and my GP has suggested Citlapram 20mg - not because she thinks I'm depressed just needing something to aid all the little bits that are overwhelming me.
So .... I have several questions which I thought you lovely bunch could help me with :) Sorry for the long winded intro!
Prior to all of this I was't really a "tablet taker" I also seemed to be pilling on the weight so I have also given up carbs as I just feel the weight was pilling on and trying to eat healthy. I take an oral multi vit and also Macca daily.
- Will the hpl reduce my 4 pumps down - I've read that big doses of Oestrogen cause more painful periods - and since being on the gel I have one day of my 5 day cycle where i have horrendous pain - general day 3.
- I read you can use Urogestan vaginally - it's better if it's localised - I know they dont like to tell you to do this but are the benefits/side effects better and should that be the 200mg for 10 days that way? Again, avoiding the liver and it's congestion.
- Do ladies take the HRT and the SSRI's? I understand some ladies can get by with just the SSRI and as it's lower risk would this be of benefit (my maternal grandmother died of Breast Cancer). I need something as I was just a former version of myself. My confidence also took a knock last year.
So there are a few things to be going on with - fortunately I've not suffered any sweats and my sleep is okay after CBT last year.
Look forward to hearing back with any useful advise - and as a thank you to all the ladies that have posted and I've read over the last 9 months - a huge thanks :D ... I wasn't going bonkers - Just having a tough time ::)
Xx[/list]
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The recommended dose is 2 pumps.
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Hi there,if you still have your womb then you need progesterone too. Surely the specialist must have perscribe it . :-\
If not you need to get back to him and query this I think.
Thanks for the reply dazned, yes I still have my womb so after reading this I'm wondering the same.
Not due to see him till September... Do you think I should call/email him to see what he thinks before then?
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Hi and welcome to MM Oliver39
It would be a good idea to do a separate post with your story and questions so you encourage more ladies to respond and support you.
I must stress that SRRIs are not an alternative for HRT - you need oestrogen to protect your heart and bones for the longer term. SRRIs alongside HRT are sometimes necessary if anxiety and low mood are ongoing even when on HRT, so it could be worth trying the Citolapram.
Whilst Utrogestan is hailed as the safest and best option for the progesterone part of HRT it doesn't suit everyone, it is sometimes poor at controlling the bleeds and can make one feel sedated and low.
4 pumps of Oestrogel is a very high dose, particularly in the peri meno stage when your own hormones will be fluctuating and such high dose will make the bleeds heavier and more painful I'm afraid.
As to using Utrogestan vaginally - this could be worth trying as many women find it more effective and get fewer sedative effects when used this way - however for some of us it can irritate the bladder and vaginal area. Give it a go and see.
If you suffer from endometriosis then I would have thought a Mirena would be a good option for you as you may get fewer progesterone side effects and it might reduce problems with bleeding and cramps - this is worth discussing with the a gynae.
Below is the section on MM about the Mirena:
MIRENA
Mirena is a levonorgestrel (type of progestogen) releasing system which sits inside the womb, gradually releasing the progestogen into the womb. It is licensed in the UK and Ireland as a contraceptive agent, for treatment of heavy periods and, from August 2004, also for the progestogen component of HRT. It can be used in both the perimenopause and postmenopause and it is particularly useful for:
Persistent progestogenic side effects from systemic HRT despite changes in type and route of progestogen.
When contraception is required along with HRT in the perimenopause.
When withdrawal bleeds on sequential HRT are heavy, after investigation if indicated. (see WHEN TO BE REFERRED )
With Mirena in place, systemic estrogen alone can be taken as the Mirena provides adequate protection of the womb lining and the estrogen dose and route can be tailored to meet the individual's needs.
Progestogenic absorption throughout the body is minimal so reducing progestogenic side effects. The effect of Mirena on the womb lining can significantly reduce bleeding and when used as part of an HRT regimen, in time, 30 to 60% of women have no bleeding at all. Although Mirena used for contraception is licensed for 5 years, the license for use for the progestogen part of HRT is currently 4 years.
Price: £88.00
DG x
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Yes Sleepy if it were me I would definitely query this now ,although 2 months of estrogen only wont cause the lining to build too much ,I would not have much faith in what you have been told to do unless perhaps you missed something that he explained in his thinking :-\
It wont hurt to up to two pumps if you getting no relief from one ,see how that goes.
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Thanks Dazned I think I'll call his secretary to clarify.
Just hope the gel kicks in soon... The exhaustion & anxiety are killing me.
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It will take time,just need to try remain positive and patience ::)
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Hi. I have just been to my GP (saw the husband instead of the wife!!!) and he admitted he was not really clued up on HRT so I told him I wanted to change from Everol 50 conti to estrogel and utrogestan 100mg daily. He wasnt sure of the dosage of estrogel and it wasnt in his book so he wioll speak to a female GP to get advise. Could anyone using this method please let me know how many tubes of estrogel they get through in a month (or how many pumps there are to a tube) so that I am not given a too low prescription with the daily utrogestan. Also I enquired about the testim gel as my libido is at zero, and he did inform me that they will prescribe it if my libido does not pick up on the new HRT, which is the opposite of what I thought he would say so there is hope for us woman out there who need a boost!! I also advised that he should take a look at this great forum so he would be more clued up in future!!
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Thankyou Stellajane. My GP has just rung and has prescribed me with 60 days of Utrogestan and only 1 cannister!!!!
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mary G I didnt answer your previous questions to me!! :(! I dont take to the progesterone at all well. It seems to build up in me and then I get to the point where I feel suicidal! Thats why I have tried different HRT and it always ends up the same way. I went to the GP this morning and asked for the utrogestan and estrogel and testrim. he has prescribed me the first 2, using 2 pumps of estrogel and utrogestan daily with a three day break but has said that if my libido doesnt improve in 2 months he will prescribe the testrim as well. Im a little concerned that the utrogestan will send me mad again! Im quite happy if I have to have a bleed but if I can get away with only using it for 5 days I will be estatic!!!
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clare663, I included you in an answer on other thread which you might find helpful! To be honest, if you don't get on with progesterone, I think you will find Utrogestan everyday (with a 3 day break) far too much. I would take much less if I were you and I suggested the 7 day regime on my other thread. By all means give your new regime a try but if it doesn't work out, it might be worth asking your doctor if you can switch.
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Been on 4pumps for a while now and have intoduced testim for the last few weeks. So here's the thing ended up with a really nasty uti kidney infection last week. Never had anything like this before. Stopped the testim for a few days too ill to be bothered. Started again today and the tingling down below has started again with the familiar dragging pain. Still on antibiotics so camt ne infection it think its the testim. Anyone any thoughts? Thought I had cracked it. ...should have known!
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Ok I was on Everol 50 conti but my flushes returned. Have now swapped to oestrogel and utrogestan 100mg daily 1-25 (virginally). started on the recommended 2 pumps but still got the flushes so increased to 3. They drop off for a couple of days and then come back! Is this normal or should I increase pumps again until I find they stop. This is the only symptom I am still getting and otherwise feel great.
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Unfortunately I found that Utrogestan taken in the continuous regime did give me flushes. If 3 pumps per day isn't keeping this under control then I would try Utrogestan as a sequential regime instead ( 12 days vaginally each month) - you just have to put up with a monthly bleed. DG x
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Right am I daft ?
Can someone explain this to me ?
If I'm on continuous utrogrstran 200 mg daily and I'm not going to have a bleed, wont that mean my womb lining will remain thickened (9mm) or get thicker ? I thought whole point in progesterone was to give you a bleed to shed womb lining ?
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No using it continuously keeps the lining thin by not allowing the estrogen to build up the lining,its when you stop the progesterone that you then get a bleed ,which is why the bleed is usually a few days later,well thats how I understand it anyway. ;)
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Thank you dazned am I thick or what havha however another question is ifbit thins the lining where's the lining going if I don't have a bleed ? So my linings 9mm if the progesterone thins that surely it must shred out vaginally ?
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Hi stellajane in my case I was started on it continuously when my womb lining was 9mm and I'm to have another scan in October, so if its already thickened its not likely to thin is it ? Wonder what the thinking is behind this ?
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Ideally you would/should have been given some additional progesterone to clear it out,as my gyne used to say have a spring clean ;)
As you didnt you might find that you have some unscheduled bleeding which slome women experience when commencing a conti regime,but you might not. As Stellajane says usually you would start after a good bleed. If you start experiencing problematic bleeding I personally would ask for a short course of something like northisterone to have a good clear out ,this is what I did,in fact my gyne says its a good idea to do this once a year anyway as a precaution. Once you do this if you have problems you would then be starting conti with a clean slate so to speak,if that makes sense.
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Thank you dazned and stellajane. Been on it 33 days now and no bleeding. I cant take norethiserone (won't) as it affects my mood terribly so hopefully there will be another option. Its just awaiting game between now and October
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It doesnt have to be norethisterone it can be any progesterone,and you only use it for about 7 days just the once ,so its a small price to pay to thin it if that's what is needed to thin it ;)
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I def dont understand then as I'm on progesterone! But if I started it with thick womb lining and dont get a bleed the lining will remain thickened? ???
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Yes if you started off with 9mm thickness and didnt shed it first as I understand it it will not get thinner. To achieve this you would need to stop the utrogeston as the stopping of progesterone is what causes the linning to break down and shed ! So if this is a concern to you this is what you could do then start over when the bleed occurs. I started mine after a good bleed.
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Thank you dazned
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Hi folks - Really flummoxed about how to reply to the replies I got to my initial post - found on page 52. There must be a simple trick to it so please let me know.
Hurdity - I was in Switzerland when first put on Estrogel and Utrogestan in 2012. I have been back in London and on the NHS since September, 2013. I have continued with one pump of estrogel daily and 100mg of Utrogestan vaginally three times per week, spread out through the week. Lining still below 5 with the twice-yearly scans provided by NHS.
I am also in Dr Panay's menopause clinic at the Queen Charlotte in west London but have only managed to see him once. One member of his team tried to get me to boost Utrogestan to 100mg per day but I experienced instant bloat and massive breast pain on a one-month trial of this regime.
So I reverted to the Swiss gynaecologist's advice: one pump estrogel and three 100mg utrogestan per week. She (gyro) assured me that this was the protocol successfully followed in France, Switzerland, Italy, Belgium and Germany.
My only problem on it was initial weight gain - boobs up a cup size and all over chubbiness. That settled down initially but is now back with a vengeance, even though i'm working out (resistance training / aqua aerobics / pilates / yoga). The only thing I have changed, on the advice of a doctor at the meno clinic, is applying the gel to my inner thighs instead of inner forearms. My thighs are chunkier than usual and layered in cellulite. Could the local application of estrogel be the culprit?
Await your advice everyone with many thanks!
Hi Smarlo
Can I ask - was Mr Panay OK with the treatment regime your Swiss gynaecologist gave you? I ask because he makes positive reference in a paper he wrote to a study done in 2011 about taking progesterone on alternate days - which suggests that in spite of the UK protocol some UK gynaecologists will consider a 3 days a week/alternate days approach.
By the way, I apply the gel to my inner thigh and have done for years and they are not noticeably chubbier.
Best wishes
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Hi ladies
I just wanted a bit of advice really. I have switched from Evorel 50 patches to the gel. I use 2 pumps of gel each day and 100mg of utrogestan for 14 days of the month. Is there any way I could take say 10 days of utrogestan? Would I bleed after that like I bleed after 14 days? I just feel a bit strange on the utrogestan. Thankyou x
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Yes there is no reason why you shouldnt bleed much the same on that dosage, I am on 11 days at the mo was on 12 am cheating, had quite a heavy withdrawal bleed this past week, seems to be easing off. The important thing when using Utrogestan like this is to have an annual scan if possible of your uterus to see if the lining is looking ok, then you should be hunky dory.
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Michelle - the licensed dose is 200 mg x 12 days but there is no oestrogen dose suggested to go with this so it is a bit of a one-size fits all - guesswork! I imagine it is probably for a range of medium oestrogen doses - which you are taking - but it also depends on how much oestrogen you absorb from the gel - which varies greatly between different women.
Research shows that there is some chance of endometrial hyperplasia when Progesterone is used for 10 days only (not as much as with only 7 days) but the risk is low so you could try 10 days - but if you are taking it orally then this is much less than the licensed dose so you would need to have a scan from your doctor say after 6 months to a year (timed to just after you've finished a bleed) to check whether you have any thickening. I can't remember what dose of progesterone this research covered but it was some time ago so before utrogestan was available.
Are you seeing a specialist through a menopause clinic because if so then changing the dose and organising a scan should not be difficult as I would have thought they would recommend it, if utrogestan is not agreeing with you?
Hurdity x
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Thankyou Hurdity
That is very helpful. I've learnt more from this forum than years with my doctor. I expect this forum are soo glad to have a helpful lady like you. :)
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Michelle46, you are taking a lot of progesterone and for a long time. If you think about it, you are actually taking the Utrogestan capsules for 14 days, then you probably have a gap of 5-6 days before starting a period. which probably lasts about 5 days. meaning the whole process is taking up about 25 days of the month which gives you just 7(ish) days before you have to start the whole process again. If you look at it like that, no wonder you don't feel good, I would have a permanent migraine if I took that much Utrogestan. One other point, Utrogestan hangs around in your system a long time after you take the last capsule and some women feel stange for a couple of weeks.
I'm sure some women can take endless amounts of synthetic/micronised progesterone and not be affected by it but if you are one of the unlucky ones who are, then you need to limit its use. Unfortunately, I have found all the progesterone used in HRT preparations have dreadful side effects and even though Utrogestan is supposedly the closest to our own progesterone and in my case, the lesser of several evils, I still don't think it is a particularly successful product and certainly nothing like the progesterone that I used to produce myself - I didn't have any migraines, PMS or period problems pre-menopause.
I really wish there was an alternative to progesterone in HRT preparations but sadly there isn't, well not yet anyway but we live in hope. Therefore, I have found that the only way to make it bearable is to limit its use and I take 100mg vaginally for 7 days every 5 weeks and I can just about tolerate it, at a push and with a huge amount of reluctance. For me, it is either that or a hysterectomy.
If you do decide to do the 7 days Utrogestan regime, i would recommend you have a scan every now and then to make sure you are getting proper clearance but frankly, all women need to have scans anyway because there are all sorts of other things to look for that only show up on a scan. You can get this on the NHS or privately.
Hope that helps.
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Hi Mary
Thankyou so much for your detailed reply. I haven't found that many ladies on 14 days of utrogestan now you've said that. I'm on my 9th day today but I am going to Majorca tomorrow and I want to feel ok ish. I'm wondering if I should just take 10 this month. Would my bleed come a few days after stopping?
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Michelle46, it's a pity you didn't delay the Utrogestan phase because if you stop now, you will probably get a period in about 5-6 days from now which will probably last for about 4 days. I was about to say that you could have stopped taking it sooner and had the period before you leave but even that would have clashed with your holiday if you are going tomorrow.
You can either stop now and put up with a period on holiday (it will probably be light because you take so much progesterone) or another option would be to carry on until day 14 or longer if you can stand it in order to delay your period until after your are back.
It all depends on how much you want to avoid a period and how long your holiday is!
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Hi folks - Really flummoxed about how to reply to the replies I got to my initial post - found on page 52. There must be a simple trick to it so please let me know.
Hurdity - I was in Switzerland when first put on Estrogel and Utrogestan in 2012. I have been back in London and on the NHS since September, 2013. I have continued with one pump of estrogel daily and 100mg of Utrogestan vaginally three times per week, spread out through the week. Lining still below 5 with the twice-yearly scans provided by NHS.
I am also in Dr Panay's menopause clinic at the Queen Charlotte in west London but have only managed to see him once. One member of his team tried to get me to boost Utrogestan to 100mg per day but I experienced instant bloat and massive breast pain on a one-month trial of this regime.
So I reverted to the Swiss gynaecologist's advice: one pump estrogel and three 100mg utrogestan per week. She (gyro) assured me that this was the protocol successfully followed in France, Switzerland, Italy, Belgium and Germany.
My only problem on it was initial weight gain - boobs up a cup size and all over chubbiness. That settled down initially but is now back with a vengeance, even though i'm working out (resistance training / aqua aerobics / pilates / yoga). The only thing I have changed, on the advice of a doctor at the meno clinic, is applying the gel to my inner thighs instead of inner forearms. My thighs are chunkier than usual and layered in cellulite. Could the local application of estrogel be the culprit?
Await your advice everyone with many thanks!
Hi Smarlo
Can I ask - was Mr Panay OK with the treatment regime your Swiss gynaecologist gave you? I ask because he makes positive reference in a paper he wrote to a study done in 2011 about taking progesterone on alternate days - which suggests that in spite of the UK protocol some UK gynaecologists will consider a 3 days a week/alternate days approach.
By the way, I apply the gel to my inner thigh and have done for years and they are not noticeably chubbier.
Best wishes
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Hi Fullmoon - apols for delayed reply, only seeing now.
Yes, Mr Panay seemed cool with it. He seems cool with everything though. Since my oestrogen blood reading was 74 and my progesterone was just 1, I asked him what the optimal ratio should be and he just said there is no optimal, we're all different.
I'm thinking I have been oestrogen dominant for such a long while. Have been off estrogel for three weeks now and breast lumpiness vanished within days. Breast size also nicely reduced. Boobs were huge and I was feeling puffy all over even with just one pump of estrogel and utrogestan thrice weekly. I just don't know what the right formula is for me. Perhaps I am so sensitive to hormones that nothing would be best.
Thighs still ridiculously chubby and meno pot is well rounded (nothing to do with bad calories as I've been no sugar, low carb, high fat for years).
Any ideas anyone?
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Hi everyone I have a question. Im 5yrs meno and started on this form of HRT a couple of weeks age. I must admit I was experimenting with the amount of gel so that I could get rid of the flushes but not take so much that I have sore breasts or anxiety. I use 100mg vaginally 1-25 but after 15 days I was so foggy with sleep I took a 2 day break and have now got spotting. I have used the utrogestan for last 2 nights but I am still spotting. Now the question I have is when I am supposed to take my break on days 25-28, am I going to spot/bleed anyway? If this is the case I may as well go on a sequi regieme and take less utrogestan!!
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Hi Stella and Smarlo
I'm one month into the three-day regime and all was going well and I was feeling great until last weekend when I had a very small bleed and have been spotting ever since. I'm going to have a scan next week just to check it is not anything other than a breakthrough bleed. I'm going to stick with this a bit because I feel my body is slightly in shock after having taken continuous utrogestan for so long - but I just can't do that any more. This week I've noticed on the days after I've taken the utrogestan I have a headache and I feel really very emotional and a bit weird - which is disappointing to say the least. However I don't have the awful low mood that has dogged me for so long. I'm waiting for an appointment at the meno clinic to review it all. I've looked up all the research I can find on this and it seems there were a number of small scale studies in the last 90s on alternate day progesterone regimes which suggested they can lead to a no-bleed regime - but no big study was ever done and I wonder if the 'Million woman survey' scuppered all of that?
Reading all these posts tells me that this is all so experimental and trial and error. :-\
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Thanks Stella
My comment abut it being experimental is more directed at the medical profession in fact - but because services for menopause are so poor we too are often left to try and work it out for ourselves. I am not committee to a no bleed regime at all - it is just that is what i was presented with when all this started and now I realize i just cannot bear to take progesterone all the time. I am going to stick with this method if I can and until I can get to the meno clinic - but headaches on alternate days is proving a little tiring...but it is only this week so maybe this is a phase which will pass as my body gets accustomed to this - we'll see!
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Fullmoon, you are right, many women are effectively left to rot (myself included) and have no option but to do their own research and work it out for themselves. I was forced to seek help privately in the end.
The two studies that were carried out have more or less been discredited. They were badly conducted on the wrong women, at the wrong age using outdated forms of HRT at the wrong dose which were also heavily laden with synthetic progesterone. I would dismiss them completely.
Things have moved on and as you know, the guidelines have been changed to reflect this. HRT is now considered safe and should be the first line of treatment for menopause with no time/age limit. Some experts now believe that oestrogen alone (or with very low dose progesterone) REDUCES breast cancer risk.
Re progesterone, it is the progesterone component of HRT that carries all the breast cancer risk albeit a limited risk. That, coupled with high levels of intolerance for so many women means that it is sensible to limit its use. We have this discussion on here at lot, I was never intolerant to my own progesterone but I have serious issues with all the synthetic varieties and micronised progesterone in high doses - they give me silent migraines. I find that progesterone has a cumulative effect, builds up in my system with a kind of tipping point. It also seems to hang around in my system a long time after I finish taking it.
If you can tolerate a period (I know it's difficult) I think you will get more out of your regime and feel better for more of the time if you take HRT cylically.
If you find you have to wait a long time for the Menopause Clinic, it might be worth seeking help privately and getting a more tailor made regime. Unfortunately, the NHS will always try you on the cheapest form of HRT first whereas privately you can be fast tracked to the best and most suitable type of HRT immediately.
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Thanks Stella and Mary
I have been battling with this for over ten years - a veteran of the campaign. I have periods (no pun intended!) when everything is good and then it is not - and I seem to have entered one of those now. I have been on the continuous regime since 2010 - oestrogel/utrogestan 100mg orally and until recently it was OK although I did suffer from low moods which I now put down to the utrogestan - but since I have had a lot of other stuff going on in these times - significant bereavements etc - its been difficult to know what has caused what. However earlier this year it just felt that I was permanently down and 'pre-menstruel' hence researching alternatives.
I would go privately but getting an appointment is a nightmare - the earliest for Mr Panay is december now and ironically I might get to see him quicker on the NHS. I'm going to stick with this a bit longer and see if it settles down.
We really need to campaign for better - what we need is the equivalent for what the National Childbirth Trust did for childbirrth but now for menopause services...
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Fullmoon, agreed, we need to raise the profile. I think Menopause Clinics and Family Planning Clinics should merge to offer a joined up service - there is a definite overlap between the two with many women using the BCP and Mirena coil for both. They should also offer uterine scans.
GPs need to be better informed and the scaremonging surrounding HRT needs to stop - now. You only have to read the comments section of any HRT article in the national press to see that people still think HRT = breast cancer. The ignorance is truly frightening and women are suffering life ruining and health ruining symptoms because of it. Those wretched studies have a lot to answer for and now we are in danger of having a lost generation of women who are either being denied or denying themselves HRT because they are scared and ill-informed. I wonder how much all those extra hip replacements and osteoporosis cases will cost the NHS? Then there is the human cost in terms of broken relationships and job losses because some women find themselves unable to carry on working. The more you think about it, the more unbelievable it is that this is still happening in 2016 and it is all completely avoidable with the right treatment.
Re your case, you could try Professor Studd although he is in demand too. I think he would probably suggest you drop to just 100mg Utrogestan each month with the possible addition of testosterone.
One more point, Utrogestan has more side effects when used orally. It is far more effective at lining clearance/thinning when used vaginally which is vital if you are only taking it for a short time. You can lose about 50% of it when it is taken orally and I found it caused breast pain.
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Hi Mary, I switched to vaginally in early July after reading this thread - I used to get breast pain and terrible indigestion (like gastritis) both of which have stopped now I realise :) but maybe as a result I am getting more progesterone than my body has been used to on the days I take it and hence both the bleeding and the headaches??
I so agree with you on everything else - it really is a scandal which has gone virtually unnoticed. This forum has been a life saver for me over the years (I'm on my 3rd or 4th log in now as i kept forgetting my details...). My hope is that now we have new NICe guidelines we will have a new generation of medics willing to research this issue and new and customised forms of treatment
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Is it correct that the utrogestan tablets you take orally can be used vaginally as well?
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Hi Stella and Smarlo
I'm one month into the three-day regime and all was going well and I was feeling great until last weekend when I had a very small bleed and have been spotting ever since. I'm going to have a scan next week just to check it is not anything other than a breakthrough bleed. I'm going to stick with this a bit because I feel my body is slightly in shock after having taken continuous utrogestan for so long - but I just can't do that any more. This week I've noticed on the days after I've taken the utrogestan I have a headache and I feel really very emotional and a bit weird - which is disappointing to say the least. However I don't have the awful low mood that has dogged me for so long. I'm waiting for an appointment at the meno clinic to review it all. I've looked up all the research I can find on this and it seems there were a number of small scale studies in the last 90s on alternate day progesterone regimes which suggested they can lead to a no-bleed regime - but no big study was ever done and I wonder if the 'Million woman survey' scuppered all of that?
Reading all these posts tells me that this is all so experimental and trial and error. :-\
Hi Fullmoon - yes there have been some small studies - I posted summaries of the abstracts of the papers (can't get hold of the full copies of most of them) about vaginal progesterone and different regimes as well as the Frrench prescribing info for vaginal use ( which is the same as oral!). Will try to find the thread. I think andius requoted it a few months ago.....
What dose of oestrogel are you using. Progesterone works on the endometrium on a dose dependent (and time dependent) basis so the 100 mg alternate day vaginal regime may not work for higher doses of oestrogen - depending on how much you absorb too!
Hurdity x
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Is it correct that the utrogestan tablets you take orally can be used vaginally as well?
As Stellajane says they are - but are not licensed in UK to be used vaginally - although the French prescribing info gives vaginal use (at same dose as oral) as an alternative to oral use if side effects such as nausea or dizziness occur with oral use.
Hurdity x
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When I took Utrogestan orally I didn't get a bleed (gp wasn't concerned though). When I started using it vaginally I got a normal period three days after stopping, so I am sure that for me absorption is better with fewer side effects
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Hi Hurdity
I'm taking 2 pumps a day - I've tried to reduce that but whever I try all my symptoms return pretty quickly so I have concluded that I definitely need 2 pumps - and I agree that it may well be that is too much for the three day regime. I've got a scan this week and then a GP conversation the next and I'll review at that point. I'm waiting for a menopause clinic appointment - but I expect that will be my Christmas present!
When you start digging into the research it is remarkable how little there is - yesterday I looked up research on menopause funded by the UK research councils in the last few years - 3-4 results came up - so the evidence bases for a lot of the prescribing is very questionable and not surprising I find that we are having to do a certain amount of experimenting ourselves...and I suspect many of us on here have unwillingly become more expert than the average GP (certainly that has been my experience to date).
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Will do!
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Hi there - Fullmoon said I'd look this out and in fact it's further down this thread - I haven't read them recently so won't comment at the moment as the details aren't in my head ::)!!! Stellajane and Smarlo one of these studies may be the one you were referring to? I am sure there have been more studies since but I just haven't looked recently.
Hurdity x
Sunnydays I have just copied and pasted some notes I made some time ago from various papers. I haven't re-read them before posting. I'm sure there are others too:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22321028'
Endometrial response to concurrent treatment with vaginal progesterone and transdermal estradiol.
Fernández-Murga L1, Hermenegildo C, TarÃn JJ, GarcÃa-Pérez MÃ, Cano A.
Author information
Abstract
ABSTRACT Objective To describe the effect of the intermittent administration of vaginal progesterone and a low-dose estradiol patch on endometrial stability, as assessed by the rate of amenorrhea and endometrial stimulation. Methods This was an open study in which 64 moderately symptomatic, postmenopausal women were treated in the outpatient clinic of our University Hospital for different intervals up to 1 year. The treatment consisted of a combination of patches delivering 25 µg/day estradiol and intravaginal pills containing 100 mg of micronized progesterone. Patches and pills were administered concomitantly in a twice-a-week protocol. The endometrial response was assessed by endovaginal ultrasound completed with suction biopsy when required. Results Both cumulative amenorrhea and no-bleeding rates increased progressively and reached 88.9% and 100.0%, respectively, by the 12th month. Isolated or repetitive episodes of bleeding, bleeding and spotting, or only spotting were reported by three, four, and 12 women, respectively. Endometrial thickness remained unaltered. Endometrium was atrophic in the seven women in whom a biopsy was performed. Conclusion The substantially reduced progestogen load determined by this combination achieved an acceptable incidence of spotting or bleeding when associated with a low estrogenic dose. There was no apparent endometrial stimulation. Additional studies are required to confirm this observation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15222511
Efficacy of oral micronized progesterone when applied via vaginal route.
Choavaratana R1, Manoch D.
Author information
Abstract
The aim of the study was to compare the efficacy of oral micronized progesterone when applied by the vaginal route. The comparative study of serum progesterone levels between oral and vaginal micronized progesterone administration was conducted in sixty female volunteers. The subjects were equally divided into two groups to receive the drug either via the oral or vaginal route. The subjects' profiles showed that there was no significant difference in general characteristics between these two groups. The blood tests for estrogen and progesterone levels were performed on all volunteers before and after the drug administration. The data collected from the experiment revealed that the serum progesterone levels achieved by oral administration (5.06 +/- 2.95 ng/ml) differed significantly (p < 0.001) from those achieved by vaginal administration (8.26 +/- 4.09 ng/ml). The data also revealed that the serum progesterone levels of the oral administration group (4.23 +/- 2.68 ng/ml) did not differ significantly (p = 0.925) from the other group (4.15 +/- 3.40 ng/ml) when the serum estrogen level was less than 30 pg/ml. On the contrary, when the serum estrogen level was at least 30 pg/ml, there was a significant (p < 0.005) difference in the serum progesterone levels between these two groups (6.32 +/- 2.99 ng/ml for the oral route and 9.76 +/- 3.23 ng/ml for the vaginal route).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20575654
Transdermal estradiol and oral or vaginal natural progesterone: bleeding patterns.
Di Carlo C1, Tommaselli GA, Gargano V, Savoia F, Bifulco G, Nappi C.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To evaluate the effects on bleeding pattern of two different doses of natural progesterone (NP) administered per os or per vagina in association with transdermal estradiol in a continuous, sequential estrogen-progestin therapy.
METHODS:
A prospective, randomized trial was conducted on 100 patients randomized into four groups. Each group received transdermal 17beta-estradiol treatment at the dose of 50 microg/day. Groups A and B received NP per os at the dose of 100 mg/day and 200 mg/day, respectively. Groups C and D received NP per vagina at the dose of 100 mg/day and 200 mg/day, respectively.
RESULTS:
After 12 cycles of treatment, no significant differences were observed in endometrial thickness between groups, suggesting that all treatments are effective in balancing the effects of estradiol on endometrium. Regarding bleeding control, patients in Groups C and D showed a higher number of episodes of regular bleeding than patients in Groups A and B and fewer episodes of spotting. The better control of bleeding was associated with a higher treatment compliance in patients who received vaginal NP, with a larger percentage of women completing the study.
CONCLUSION:
Transdermal estrogen replacement therapy combined with 100 mg of micronized NP administered per vagina from the 14th day to the 25th day of each 28-day cycle leads to good cycle control and provides excellent patient satisfaction without serious side-effects. This therapy could be a treatment of first choice in early postmenopausal patients.
E-mail from information manager at Ferring ( previous manufacturer of Utrogestan)
The product monograph talks of two trials of vaginal use as part of HRT – they're small patient populations – 20 and 30 patients in each.
One study used 100mg once daily vaginally for 21 days of 28 day cycle – the study lasted a year and was undertaken in 20 patients. Symptoms were significantly reduced, bone density remained and no adverse effects were seen. The endometrium was safely protected from the estrogenic effect of 1.5mg transdermal Oestrogel.
Another of 30 patients over 36 months studied the use of 100mg vaginal Utrogestan every other day. For most patients there was absence of bleeding and good patient satisfaction. There was a reduction in mean endometrial thickness and at the end of the study endometrial atrophy was seen in all cases. Five of the 30 women dropped out due to vaginal bleeding.
The references are:
Spritzer et al Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes 2003; 111 (5) 267-273
Vilodre et al Gynecol Endocrinol 2003; 17 (4) 323-328.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity - very helpful and interesting.
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Hi all
Can anyone on Estrogel help please?
I'm wondering how long it took to get relief?
I went privately to a meno clinic and he's put me on this. I was told to increase the dose every 2 weeks Upto 4 and see how I do.
I've been on it 6 weeks & now on 4 squirts a day but still no relief from symptoms,
I see him again in 3 weeks, but wondering if This isn't working for me or I need Testosterone too, after reading here I seem to have all the symptoms of low testosterone!
Any help gratefully received I could do with being armed with questions when I see him, it's so expensive I can't keep going indefinitely...
Only ended up here because docs gave up on me after trying 4 different pills and patches, but all aggrivated migraines. :-\
X
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Hi Sleepy. I would think 6 weeks of it would of stopped the flushes by now if it was having any effect. How are you applying it? Where are you applying it?
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Sleepy - do tell use what meno symptoms you are trying to control or help? If you are still getting flushes and night sweats whilst using 4 pumps of Oestrogel, then I would assume you are either not absorbing the gel at all or your flushes may be more to do with a poor thyroid function.
DG x
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Hey Fullmoon, Stellajane, Hurdity, Mary G - Apologies for disappearing but I never get alerts when there are new posts to threads. Guess I just need to keep checking the most recent pages of the Estrogel / Utrogestan group.
To clarify: the Swiss gynaecologist - a surgeon schooled in Italy and France, - put me on one pump Estrogel and 100mg Utrogestan, vaginally, three times a week. I was taking the Utro on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday nights. No bleed. No spotting. Regular lining checks and last one (memory here) was 4mm.
My experimental one-month holiday off both has produced mixed results: hot flashes arrived after two weeks; boobs smaller, less dense; mood same, which is medium to low; lack of motivation; hair shedding seems to have stopped but that is likely because I have resumed taking 2 grains natural desiccated thyroid; meno pot is thriving - basketball form and never goes down, even when keep carbs to 15grams per sitting. Frustrating but many deal with much, much worse.
The most telling development one month after quitting Estrogel is that my RA has flared across the knuckles of both hands. Late at night, joints are warm to the touch, painful, and skin is a bit red, inflamed and squishy.
I think my bio-HRT keeps my inflammation in check, in combination with my ridiculously saintly eating and exercise regime. (There are only the rare three-glasses-of-wine evenings out with friends).
Libido is still a distant memory.
Anyway,, good luck with the 3 x weekly Utro regime Fullmoon.
It worked very well for me for about two years and I'm resuming it again to get rid of the RA symptoms and get my thermostat back on an even keel.
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And thank you so much for digging out those studies Hurdity. Very interesting and reassuring.
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Sleepy - do tell use what meno symptoms you are trying to control or help? If you are still getting flushes and night sweats whilst using 4 pumps of Oestrogel, then I would assume you are either not absorbing the gel at all or your flushes may be more to do with a poor thyroid function.
DG x
Thanks
I'm suffering disturbed sleep due to hot flushes, no energy am so tired all the time, palpitations, anxiety, joint aches, no strength, no libido, bad memory oh the list seems endless...
I've had my thyroid checked and apparently it was normal.
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Hi Sleepy. I would think 6 weeks of it would of stopped the flushes by now if it was having any effect. How are you applying it? Where are you applying it?
Yes I thought so too, the other things I've tried seem to have an effect on hot flushes within a couple of weeks but obviously didn't suit for various reasons.
I'm applying it on inner thighs 2 in the morning and 2 at night at the mo as I tried 2 on thighs and 2 on upper outer arm in the morning first and that didn't work either!
I really hoped this would work as i haven't had a migraine since starting it, but I feel I'm running out of options if it doesn't!
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Hi sorry to butt in to this thread - my regime is to take Sandrena which is Estradiol - is this the same oestrogen product you are all talking about / taking? It comes in a box in 1 mg gel sachets so I can't have one or two 'pumps'
I know I am progesterone sensitive so am going to take my progesterone vaginally for just 7 days - thank you for those who have explained this method.
We don't have a menopause clinic or national health service over here :(
I am spending all my evening reading threads on this site...
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Hey Fullmoon, Stellajane, Hurdity, Mary G - Apologies for disappearing but I never get alerts when there are new posts to threads. Guess I just need to keep checking the most recent pages of the Estrogel / Utrogestan group.
To clarify: the Swiss gynaecologist - a surgeon schooled in Italy and France, - put me on one pump Estrogel and 100mg Utrogestan, vaginally, three times a week. I was taking the Utro on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday nights. No bleed. No spotting. Regular lining checks and last one (memory here) was 4mm.
My experimental one-month holiday off both has produced mixed results: hot flashes arrived after two weeks; boobs smaller, less dense; mood same, which is medium to low; lack of motivation; hair shedding seems to have stopped but that is likely because I have resumed taking 2 grains natural desiccated thyroid; meno pot is thriving - basketball form and never goes down, even when keep carbs to 15grams per sitting. Frustrating but many deal with much, much worse.
The most telling development one month after quitting Estrogel is that my RA has flared across the knuckles of both hands. Late at night, joints are warm to the touch, painful, and skin is a bit red, inflamed and squishy.
I think my bio-HRT keeps my inflammation in check, in combination with my ridiculously saintly eating and exercise regime. (There are only the rare three-glasses-of-wine evenings out with friends).
Libido is still a distant memory.
Anyway,, good luck with the 3 x weekly Utro regime Fullmoon.
It worked very well for me for about two years and I'm resuming it again to get rid of the RA symptoms and get my thermostat back on an even keel.
Hi Smarlo
MAny thanks for this and good luck with you regime. I'm five weeks into the 100mg of utrogestan three days a week - and have adopted your pattern of Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday. I started spotting after three weeks and it hasn't quite stopped yet (just over two weeks now) but mostly very light and occasionally a bit of a bleed. had a scan last week and all was well. To my great surprise my meno clinic appointment has come through for early October (I thought I'd have to wait for December at the earliest) so I have decided to stick with this until I see Mr Panay or one of his team. The only downside apart from the spotting is that my boobs have become very heavy and tender some days - I can't understand why that is really - but would rather that and the spotting than the continual low mood. Mentally i feel hugely better. Interestingly however I am beginning to reach the conclusion that I do actively need the progesterone as well as the oestrogen. I absolutely cannot reduce the latter (two pumps a day) ) - whenever I try and reduce I feel very mentally shaky and get terrible headaches as well as the flushes etc but before I went onto the three day regime I did try the Studd regime of only taking the progesterone for seven days out of the month - but didn't get beyond ten days in total because although the first few days without progesterone were absolutely wonderful by about day seven I could feel my mood slipping and in a panic took utrogestan again. Today I read an article published in 2003 by Trish Morse (which was published on the Hystersisters website) - about how hormones affect anxiety and depression - and of course both oestrogen and progesterone are neurotransmitters and too little or too much either way can cause anxiety and/or depression (both of which have been the worst symptoms for me). So it really does suggest that we all need pretty individualised treatment - which of course most of us don't get! I would really recommend the Morse article but cannot find a link to it - but if you google 'Trish Morse 'Hormones affect anxiety and depression' you will find references to it in other articles and possibly links to the original.
Anyone else find the progesterone in the right dose a positive?
Best wishes to all
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Fullmoon, I too am progesterone-intolerant so i tried the three days a week 100mg Utrogestan protocol instead of taking it for 8 days a month, which made me sluggish and badly affected my mood. All is good on the womb lining front, which i check every six months. On this dose of Utrogestan my lining never exceeds 4 mm. But i am a bit concerned about my breast, now it feels heavy and a bit sore, which wasn't a problem before. Frequent spotting is another side effect. I wonder whether i should change the dosage.
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Foreignbody StellaJane
thank you both. I don't know the answer to you question StellaJane but that is what i will ask at the Meno Clinic in October. It may be that it will take a while for my body to get used to this as I was on continuous utrogestan for six years until July! ForeignBody may I ask if you were prescribed this routine or just decided like me to try it? If prescribed was it your GP or a Meno Clinic?
Thanks to you both
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Hi Fullmoon,
i was not prescribed this protocol, i just decided to try it and informed my gyno about it. He is very laid back and has no objection to it, he just wants to make sure that my lining stays within the safe range.
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Hi Foreignbody
that is very interesting - thank you! If I may ask where did you get the idea from. I saw it here and then tried to find research studies to back it up - which I did - but they are all pretty small scale so it is interesting that your gynae is OK with it - so presumably s/he is aware of some studies which suggest it is a viable method.
Thanks again for replying
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i read about it here on MM and i decided to give it a try because 8 days of progesterone didn't agree with my body. I was ok for the first 3 days but then the levels seemed to be too high for me and caused a lot of side effects. Now i am happy with this protocol but am a bit worried about sore and heavy breast, and the frequent spotting. I don't know whether i should increase or reduce the progesterone.
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Hi Foreignbody
Thanks again. I am in the same position as you. Spoke to my GP last night and I have decided to stick with this until I go to the Menopause Clinic - I'll let you know how that goes. I like this regime except for the pretty constant spotting - I feel much better on it than on the continuous and like you I think I would find a sequential regime quite difficult.
Best wishes
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Hi Ladies,
I'm seeing a lot of people on here doing the 7 day Utrogestan at 100mg and I'm thinking of doing this myself. I am not using estrogel (not available in Australia) but am using a patch.
The Utrogestan makes me wired and I had the worst night's sleep last night and awful dreams.
Does anyobody else get this? If so, does taking the Utrogestan in the morning instead of at night help?
Also, the ladies who are taking Utrogestan for 7 days, how often do you have a scan to check your lining is okay?
Thanks
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Hi Stellajane
Can i ask what your side effects were when taking them orally ? I'm debating whether to use them vaginally. Is it easy to insert them?
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Thankyou I'm going to give it a try. I feel all wired up when I take them orally as well.
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Hi Fullmoon - good to hear that you're feeling better on the 3x a week vaginal Utrogestan protocol. I look forward to hearing how you fare at the clinic. I was advised to try taking Utrogestan nightly but blew up after a two-week test - bloating was horrendous.
Must say that my return to my regime has, for the first time, also featured heavy, sometimes tender boobs. Great if you get an theory from the clinic experts on why this would be happening to us.
I've been taking a bit less than one pump of Estrogel (and reverted to putting on inner lower arms instead of risking stimulating my fat cells by applying to inner thighs) and resumed 100mg Utro before bed on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday. Boobs much fuller only two weeks after going back on HRT after my break. Don't know why I never spot on this regime.
Have you ever tried just one pump of Estrogel instead of two? I dug up the list of common side effects:
breast pain; headache, vaginal itching, thinning scalp hair; nausea, vomiting, bloating
Serious but less common side effects include heart attack, stroke, blood clots, dementia, breast cancer, cancer of the lining of the uterus (womb), cancer of the ovary, high blood pressure, high blood glucose, gallbladder disease, liver problems, changes in your thyroid hormone levels, and enlargement of benign tumors (“fibroidsâ€).
Stellajane - I've read that 5mm is the outer limit for lining on a no-bleed regime. I've had mine checked annually by Mr Panay and team at the menopause clinic and have been told 4mm is fine. Have you been told it needs to be thinner than that?
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Hi Smarlo
I'm about six weeks into this regime and for the past three weeks have been spotting/bleeding - but in spite of that feel hugely better. I am concerned about the bleeding but my scan shows all is normal and womb lining within normal limits (the upper of which I am told is 5mm). I have tried reducing the Oestrogel but that does not suit me at all - I need two pumps! By the time I get to the meno clinic I will have been on this regime for 2 months. If I am still bleeding then I am sure I will have to change the progesterone regime - but that will probably mean for me increasing the frequency weekly - I don#t think I will suit a sequential regime as I think I need the progesterone to balance me out (that's my current theory anyway - when I tried the 'Studd regime') I only lasted a week because I then started to feel myself slide into depression without any progesterone after about seven days.
Interestingly in the last couple of days my boobs have felt much more comfortable so perhaps things might start to settle down. I even managed a 5k run yesterday without any discomfort!
I'll keep you posted!
Best wishes
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Hi StellaJane,
I am taking the Utrogestan vaginally and am only on 25 mcg estradiol patch.
Even using them vaginally I still find the first few days trying as my body thermostat just goes AWOL!
Yes the exact same thing is happening to me!
I plan to increase this soon to 37.5 and see how I go from there.
Does anybody know what the equivalent of 2 pumps estragel is compared to estradot patch?
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Hi Fullmoon - Well done on the run. My boobs feel so heavy that I'm thinking I may need to throw on my best sports bra underneath my swimsuit for aqua aerobics tomorrow morning. Here's hoping mine calm down soon too. I figure I'm paying for all the chopping and changing I've been doing and now hope getting back on what worked before will do so again.
Sounds as if you're sure you need the two pumps. My theory was that you could taper down the Estrogel to one pump in keeping with the reduction from continuous Utrogestan. Keen to hear what the docs say about your bleeding/spotting. Maybe you had more to slough off and it will soon end? I do recall my Swiss gyno saying I was unlikely to have a bleed on one pump Estro and 3x Utro and so far not even a hint of one.
Ta for keeping me posted and hope you continue to feel great. Whenever I've tried to take more progesterone I blow up like a balloon and get so muzzy-headed that I can't function.
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Hi not sure this thread is still going ! I have changed from Femston 1/10 to Sandrena gel 100mg daily & on day 21 for 7 days 200mg of
Utrogestan , I can't say I feel tired on this but feel totally out of sorts,nauseous & anxious, dread the thought of doing this every month feel that I will have to wipe a week out of my life every month!!! Does any one know if this will improve or not????
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butterfly286, this thread on pretty much ongoing!
The first question is, how are you taking the Utrogestan, orally or vaginally? It is far better when used vaginally because most of it hits the spot and does not get lost in your digestive system. The other advantage is fewer side effects like stomach problems and breast pain.
I take 100mg Utrogestan vaginally for 7 days every 5 weeks and I can just about live with that, at a push! I have found this works extremely well for lining clearance/thinning and regularly have a post bleed lining reading of just 2mm. For me, it's either that or a hysterectomy so choice doesn't actually come into it.
If you are taking 200mg orally then you are probably losing about 50% of it in your digestive system anyway was it's the same difference really.
Definitely one to think about.
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Hi Mary
I'm taking it orally & am I write by taking the Sandrena at the same time? Do you think I need to go back & see my GP & get pesseries prescribed? I had this script originally given to me by a private consultant but I can't afford to go back& see her again! Im already planning my life around my 7 days of Utrogestan , this week is ok because I have annual leave but dread having to go to work on it- counting down the days till I finish it!
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butterfly286, I guessed you had been prescribed this regime privately because of the 7 day Utrogestan dose. I know how you feel because I dread taking Utrogestan too.
Yes, you should be using the Sandrena everyday and while you are on the Utrogestan phase. You don't need to get special pessaries from your GP for vaginal use, they can be taken either way and my box says 'vaginal or oral use' but that is because I buy them in Spain - the UK is about the only country that does not licence Utrogestan to be used vaginally for some unknown reason.
You can just use the pessaries you have but try to place the capsule next to your cervix if you can. I use an old thrush cream applicator and it works very well. Make sure you insert it last thing at night and try not to go to the loo too soon afterwards because you can end up losing some of it if you do!
It's worth a try and you may well find it has fewer side effects. Please let us know how you get on.
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Ok thank you I'l give it ago tonight!
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Hi I've been prescribed estradiol and utogestran ( pharmacy don't have the Utrogestran til Monday.). I intend to use these tablets vaginally.
I asked the GP how much of each I should take and how often and when I should start ? he looked puzzled and didn't actually know , he first told me to take the gel on the first day of my period for 21 days, he then told me to use up the rest of the femoston 1/10 that I'm currently using first ( Im on the combined tablet part at the mo and have til nxt Friday ,then the pack is finished), regardless of when my period is! does anybody actually know the real time I should start on the gel ? I have not got on with femoston 1/10 and have felt poorly most days. Dreadful low mood, tinnitus , nausea and headaches. I still have periods, I'm 48. Tried evorel conti before and that didn't agree with me either.
Anyone have any ideas on the best time to start as I'm pretty desperate.
Thanks all
Xxx
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sorry, i meant to say I was on Evorel sequi not evorel conti. :)
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Hi Nellendra
Finish the course of Femoston until you have reached the end of the combi pack. Then start the oestrogel on the next day - Day 1 - and then take it continuously without a break. The licensed dose of utrogestan is 200 mg (ie two capsules) on days 15-26 or 17-28 and then go back to the gel. You should get a bleed hopefully starting around Day 1 - Day 3 but just carry on with this regime and see what happens. Depending on how far into menopause you are you might not need this amount ( eg if you are only on one pump of gel or if your periods are still pretty regular) but start with this and see how you feel. In theory you should not need as much progesterone when used vaginally but I would still take it for the 12 days to start with and see what sort of bleed you get.
Sorry to hear you have still been feeling rough. Did the Femoston eliminate your flushes and sweats?
Good luck with the new regime and let us know how you get on :)
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity, you are always so helpful and knowledgeable.
I'm truly at my wits end. I'm dragging myself through life by my fingernails at the mo. This is not living. I'm sure I must be allergic to hrt!!
I'll try this regime, if it doesn't work I'm going to beg for a hysterectomy. 😀
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Forgot to reply on this bit.
The femoston helped with sleep and the being hot all the time.
But when it comes to the progesteron tablets it makes me really poorly. Then I get hot sweats, dizzy, nauseous, waking in the night. Just dreadful. X
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Could do with some advice as my regime is changing. I was on Evorel 50 (patch) and Utrogestan 100mg (orally) last year which suited me fine. I moved to Canada mid-January and from February started to experience a range of symptoms including mid-cycle bleeding and a non-malignant breast lump (before my move I did not have any bleeding at all and was taking Evorel 50 twice a week as a patch and taking Utrogestan 100mg for 25 days and then omitting taking it for 3 days).
I then saw someone who advised me that my natural cycle and my medication were out of synch ... I attempted to reset it several times - most recently my regime has been 100mg progesterone (recently prescribed Prometrium 100mg as they don't sell Utrogestan in Canada!) and I continued with the Evorel 50 as I had some to use up from the UK. The Prometrium 100mg I took as I took the Utrogestan i.e. for 25 days then omitted for 5 days. The Evorel 50 is a patch and I changed it twice a week.
Was still experiencing some side effects though ... spotting on a couple of days and some anxiety/mood swings noticed on a couple of days.
Saw Canadian Gynaecologist today and because I didn't go a full calendar year without periods before I was originally put on HRT (just under a year) she's not sure whether I'm post menopausal or not. She suggested I might be and attributed some of the side effects I'm now getting to my current medication regime.
She's ordered a vaginal scan to check the layer in my uterus to make sure it hasn't got too thick. And has told me to continue taking the Prometrium 100mg but to take it continuously (i.e. no break). She's also told me to stop taking the Evorel 50 and instead has prescribed Estrogel which contains estradiol - 17 Hemihydrate 0.06%. She's told me to take 1 pump a day and I'm scheduled to see her again in 3 months.
I asked the pharmacist about the amount of estradiol in the Estrogel compared to the amount of estradiol in Everol 50 and there is slightly less in the gel but not dramatically so. I'm hoping that my menopausal symptoms won't reappear too dramatically as I've just started back on a course at University and I need to function! (I need to start submitting written assignments in October!).
The Dr said that if my anxiety and depression symptoms recur with this new regime I might need to see a psychiatrist ... I'm hoping not as the previous hormone regime got rid of my hot flushes, night sweats, roaring anxiety and awful depression ... so I'm in no hurry for it to come back.
I just wondered whether anyone else has switched from medications like the one's I've been taking to the one's I've now been prescribed (i.e. Evorel 50/Prometrium (Utrogestan) 100mg to Estrogel and Prometrium continuously? And any advice on coping with switching regimes? I'll admit I'm a tad apprehensive as my life has been quite stressful since I returned to Canada and I really don't want to get ill again the way I did last year - but equally, the regime I was on, was no longer suiting me so I'm really hoping the new meds help.
The idea, apparently, is to go for the lowest possible effective dose which enables me to function - so I guess, if 1 pump doesn't work, then maybe the pumps will be increased - altho' I won't get to see the Dr until December so I hope the symptoms don't come back too dramatically as that's a long time to wait!
Any thoughts/advice/information appreciated - I know everyone reacts differently to changes and one cannot predict the outcome but it's nice to get support!
BTW just to say I'm 53 and my last natural bleeding (prior to being put on HRT) was in June 2014. I started on HRT in March 2015 and was switched to Evorel 50 and Utrogestan 100mg in April 2015 - and they worked fine until I left the UK in January 2016 - the midcycle bleeding started in February 2016!
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Thanks StellaJane! The only thing I've noticed so far (which started yesterday before I took off my patch) is some sensation of pressure on my low abdomen ... I've had this intermittently on this HRT medication (the patch and pill before switching to a pill and gel) but it's persisted in to today which is a little weird. It's not exactly cramps ... more of a sensation of wanting to pee ... yet I go and have a pee and the pressure on my lower abdomen kind of remains. I'm hoping it will go away in the next day or so as it's a tad uncomfortable. I don't know whether its related to hormones but it has happened in the past too ..
And you are so right, changing can be so daunting! Last night (and today) I didn't have any hot flashes which was nice but I didn't sleep that well last night altho' I don't know whether that was due to the hormones or just that I have a lot on my mind at the moment having just started a university course ... it's lovely to be able to check in with people here - helps keep me sane!
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Hi Greenfields - I got a lot of lower abdominal cramps with Utrogestan (Prometrium) - I think this is common for many women.
Oestrogel is great - flexible to use and delivers a consistent dose - you may well only need one pump per day.
Sounds to me as though you are getting good advice from your canadian gynae. DG x
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Hi Greenfields - I got a lot of lower abdominal cramps with Utrogestan (Prometrium) - I think this is common for many women.
Oestrogel is great - flexible to use and delivers a consistent dose - you may well only need one pump per day.
Sounds to me as though you are getting good advice from your canadian gynae. DG x
Do the abdominal cramps go away?
This morning I noticed its a little bit less which is nice but the 2 days previous weren't very pleasant!
I've never used estrogel before and have been putting it on at night after my bath. But am wondering, can I shower in the morning or will I wash it off in the process (if I've applied it the night before)? ... just curious as I sometimes want to shower in the morning.
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You are fine to shower in the morning. The gel absorbs pretty quickly x
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Greenfields - I'm afraid the cramps didn't subside for me and it's one of the reasons I have stopped HRT - I think Utrogestan really didn't suit me - the cramps may well settle for you as your body adjusts. Oestrogel absorbs fully within 2 hours so you can swim or bath after this 2 hour absorption time. DG x
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Just to say Hello Greenfields! Hope you're doing OK with your university course and your new HRT works out for you :)
Hurdity x
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Aw thanks for all these replies - and hello back to you Hurdity too! It's really helpful to know the gel absorbs quickly - the last 2 mornings I haven't had a shower because I've been worried about the hormones being washed away!
The low abdominal pressure thing is a bit weird - it only started the day I saw the gynaecologist and while I had had a few days over the last year where it had happened, this is the first time it's gone on for more than a day. When I saw the gynaecologist, I was still on the patch (that was 3 days ago) - and I switched to the gel ... and things have been fine in terms of hot flashes - I've not had any even though the oestrogen level in the gel is lower than what I was taking by patch. My mind has remained sharp as well and the anxiety and depression haven't come back yet which is nice.
But the low abdominal pressure thing has been uncomfortable at times - it was present today and then tonight its gone for a bit ... I hope it doesn't come back as it's hard to concentrate. My belly is also a bit "swollen" for want of a better description. I have got a pelvic ultrasound scheduled for November (at 7.45am in the morning - what was I thinking! - I have to turn up with a full bladder and if they can't get a proper picture it has to be done trans vaginally ... oh joy!). So maybe that test will shed a bit of light.
So at the moment, I pee a lot! Or rather I go to the loo a lot because of the pressure sensation but don't always pee much. I have also noticed I am gassy ... I managed to fart in the quiet zone of the academic library today - oh dear!
There are a lot of changes going on in my life though - so hard to tell how much is stress and how much is hormones ... the course I've just started is very intense and part of me is thinking - what was I thinking in doing it! But I'm here now and making the best of it! The weather here has been very very warm as well - I walked home tonight from lectures and although it was close to 10pm, it was like a warm muggy summer evening - very unusual for September.
Hugs to everyone in the UK!
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Greenfields - I'm afraid the cramps didn't subside for me and it's one of the reasons I have stopped HRT - I think Utrogestan really didn't suit me - the cramps may well settle for you as your body adjusts. Oestrogel absorbs fully within 2 hours so you can swim or bath after this 2 hour absorption time. DG x
How are you adjusting to coming off HRT? Just curious as it's something I've thought about doing but have been reluctant to try because if it impacts my functioning a lot it would be difficult with meeting all the other demands in my life at the moment ... but it does remain a long term goal for me - or short term if my health remains reasonably stable.
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Greenfields - in my experience, how you feel when you come off HRt really depends on where you are in your life and what is going on. In the past I have taken breaks - once for 3 years in my early 50s - and life was stressful which made it difficult to cope with flushes etc. This time, apart from really feeling too hot during the the super humid hot days we've had in recent weeks, I have coped better - life is simpler, I am doing less and avoiding stress much better.
I am 60 now and have been feeling that my body simply doesn't want to handle the hassle of HRT any more.
I have tried just about every HRT combo going as I have been menopausal since my mid 30s. In my 40s I used to do quite well on a simple Oestrogel plus progesterone (synthetic progesterone for 10 days each month) - I then had a Mirena in my mid 50s after trying most of the continuous HRTs with no success and the Mirena worked OK but was still not ideal. I then took another break aged 57 and stuck out a year before VA and bladder issues made me think I needed to try systemic again, so I got advice from a private gynae and tried gel with Utrogestan in various regimes. I have to say Utrogestan made me feel wonderfully ‘spaced out' - almost high - which was a great feeling but I did feel rather detached from life. I got erratic spotting a bleeding and lots of cramping so clearly Utrogestan wasn't doing it's job for me. I did try Utro vaginally but with my VA problems this proved really uncomfortable.
It wasn't until I moved to Suffolk and the local GP practise, who were clued up about the problems of VA, gave me local oestrogen 3 years ago - this has been a godsend. I will keep using Vagifem probably for the rest of my life.
There are a couple of other ladies posting on MM at the moment who are taking a break from HRT for various reasons so it's worth having a read. Strangely all of us have noticed a slight improvement in energy since coming off HRT - I do think coping with any progesterone drains our resources a bit - whether poor sleep eventually reduces that feeling only time will tell. I do a lot of Mindful Meditation and brisk walking these days. DGx
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Great news Stellajane! That validates your decision. Well you wouldn't know anyway as you say - but with your family history - why do the experiment on yourself and find out too late that you were a candidate for osteo? Also unfortunately you now have your sister - genetically close - for comparison. Have you suggested she take HRT too or perhaps she doesn't want to?
Hurdity x
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Greenfields - in my experience, how you feel when you come off HRt really depends on where you are in your life and what is going on. In the past I have taken breaks - once for 3 years in my early 50s - and life was stressful which made it difficult to cope with flushes etc. This time, apart from really feeling too hot during the the super humid hot days we've had in recent weeks, I have coped better - life is simpler, I am doing less and avoiding stress much better.
I am 60 now and have been feeling that my body simply doesn't want to handle the hassle of HRT any more.
I have tried just about every HRT combo going as I have been menopausal since my mid 30s. In my 40s I used to do quite well on a simple Oestrogel plus progesterone (synthetic progesterone for 10 days each month) - I then had a Mirena in my mid 50s after trying most of the continuous HRTs with no success and the Mirena worked OK but was still not ideal. I then took another break aged 57 and stuck out a year before VA and bladder issues made me think I needed to try systemic again, so I got advice from a private gynae and tried gel with Utrogestan in various regimes. I have to say Utrogestan made me feel wonderfully ‘spaced out' - almost high - which was a great feeling but I did feel rather detached from life. I got erratic spotting a bleeding and lots of cramping so clearly Utrogestan wasn't doing it's job for me. I did try Utro vaginally but with my VA problems this proved really uncomfortable.
It wasn't until I moved to Suffolk and the local GP practise, who were clued up about the problems of VA, gave me local oestrogen 3 years ago - this has been a godsend. I will keep using Vagifem probably for the rest of my life.
There are a couple of other ladies posting on MM at the moment who are taking a break from HRT for various reasons so it's worth having a read. Strangely all of us have noticed a slight improvement in energy since coming off HRT - I do think coping with any progesterone drains our resources a bit - whether poor sleep eventually reduces that feeling only time will tell. I do a lot of Mindful Meditation and brisk walking these days. DGx
Thanks for that DG. I really feel that stress is a huge component with respect to the severity of menopausal symptoms - I know it definitely played a role in me getting spectacularly ill when I was in the UK. Unfortunately things are quite stressful for me in Canada with the degree course I'm now doing - it's much more intense than I ever realized! And part of me now is wondering what the hell I was thinking in moving back to Canada and doing it! But it's only a year and I'm hoping I can make it through with the HRT and then reevaluate (once I've got a bit of stability in my life in terms of work and where I'm living) as I would like to try coming off it and seeing how I am.
That said, since I've started the lower dose of oestrogen (via the gel estrogel) I've found that I've had 4 days of low abdominal pressure. Today (the 5th day since i started the new meds) I didn't have any low abdominal pressure (which was nice) but instead, I woke up at 5.18am with symptoms of high anxiety - dry mouth, nausea, upset stomach and feeling very shaky and I was very hot as well. Not much fun!
I'm guessing some hormone or other (cortisol?) must have dropped to set that off. I meditated for a bit, had a cup of tea, a shower, lay in bed a bit more - and finally felt less shaky and able to get on with the day .. but I'm hoping I don't have to go through that caper on a regular basis because it's very wearing. I'm guessing it's partly a reflection of my current stress levels too (maybe).
Like you, I do mindful meditation and I'm consciously trying to step up my practice more at the moment. However I cannot remove the stresses imposed on me by the course deadlines and the structure of the course - so am trying to take care of myself the best way I can and am realizing that I probably need to take 'mini-breaks' of meditation during the days I'm at uni. We have one day where the first lecture starts at 8.30am and the last lecture ends at 9pm and although it's only been 2 weeks since I started it, I notice I really need to take extra care of myself that day otherwise I feel worn out on the Friday. Fortunately, all the classes (generally) are crammed into 2 days but, this week we have a training course on 2 other days and I have 3 papers and an exam to write by mid-October! Seriously what was I thinking going back to school at 53?!
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I do think our ability to cope with stress as we age, generally, is challenging in many ways. There is a good reason why we should probably slow down and take life at a calmer pace. Meno symptoms just make everything harder and many women simply have to opt out of many things in life which is a great pity. I do think it's mistake to take on too much - try to be all things to all peoples - when meno hits. Sometimes we don't have any choice and sometimes we believe it will be good to take on particular challenges to fulfil our lives in some way - either way this can be good and bad. I think we should only expect HRT to relieve SOME symptoms - some things are not necessarily meno related but perhaps more to do with the ageing process - some do better than others and this is probably written in our genes.
You are nearly there with your degree - think of how good you will feel when it's done - just keep meditating, be kind to yourself. DG xxx
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The low abdominal pressure thing is a bit weird - it only started the day I saw the gynaecologist and while I had had a few days over the last year where it had happened, this is the first time it's gone on for more than a day. When I saw the gynaecologist, I was still on the patch (that was 3 days ago) - and I switched to the gel ... and things have been fine in terms of hot flashes - I've not had any even though the oestrogen level in the gel is lower than what I was taking by patch. My mind has remained sharp as well and the anxiety and depression haven't come back yet which is nice.
But the low abdominal pressure thing has been uncomfortable at times - it was present today and then tonight its gone for a bit ... I hope it doesn't come back as it's hard to concentrate. My belly is also a bit "swollen" for want of a better description. I have got a pelvic ultrasound scheduled for November (at 7.45am in the morning - what was I thinking! - I have to turn up with a full bladder and if they can't get a proper picture it has to be done trans vaginally ... oh joy!). So maybe that test will shed a bit of light.
Hi Greenfields,
new on here and to hrt, seems we have been through the same, 1st patches and now started with gel and I also have the pressure, swelling of the abdomen and the constant urge to pee and hardly do. I also have a lot of vaginal discomfort and my urethra started hurting a week into the patches. It all started on day 2 of the patches after coming of a low dose pill called Qlaira for 10 months which worked great and gave me no swelling. Dancinggirl has given me great tips and info on how to deal with the "urge" to pee and the vaginal symptoms.
Hope we get results soon
nhb xxx
PS:(going to read the advice others have given use to put in practice, too :) )
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I do think our ability to cope with stress as we age, generally, is challenging in many ways. There is a good reason why we should probably slow down and take life at a calmer pace. Meno symptoms just make everything harder and many women simply have to opt out of many things in life which is a great pity. I do think it's mistake to take on too much - try to be all things to all peoples - when meno hits. Sometimes we don't have any choice and sometimes we believe it will be good to take on particular challenges to fulfil our lives in some way - either way this can be good and bad. I think we should only expect HRT to relieve SOME symptoms - some things are not necessarily meno related but perhaps more to do with the ageing process - some do better than others and this is probably written in our genes.
You are nearly there with your degree - think of how good you will feel when it's done - just keep meditating, be kind to yourself. DG xxx
Thanks DG. I will!
And I agree with many of your points. I find myself wondering whether more women are experiencing more difficult menopausal symptoms because of the challenges life - and particularly our current culture - are throwing at them. I know I never envisaged having to retrain in my fifties to try and get work, or separating from my ex, or worrying about money and my future. And then there are women who are trying to help there own children with child care by looking after grandchildren. And women who work f/t but are also trying to take care of elderly parents. I think the menopausal transition is a much more stressful decade these days - lots of people having to juggle multiple roles alongside much more uncertainty in wider society around work, housing, money etc. is bound to increase stress levels which impacts on menopause. I miss the culture I grew up in where there was much more community - people had more stable housing and work. There was less of a sense of constant 'change.'
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The low abdominal pressure thing is a bit weird - it only started the day I saw the gynaecologist and while I had had a few days over the last year where it had happened, this is the first time it's gone on for more than a day. When I saw the gynaecologist, I was still on the patch (that was 3 days ago) - and I switched to the gel ... and things have been fine in terms of hot flashes - I've not had any even though the oestrogen level in the gel is lower than what I was taking by patch. My mind has remained sharp as well and the anxiety and depression haven't come back yet which is nice.
But the low abdominal pressure thing has been uncomfortable at times - it was present today and then tonight its gone for a bit ... I hope it doesn't come back as it's hard to concentrate. My belly is also a bit "swollen" for want of a better description. I have got a pelvic ultrasound scheduled for November (at 7.45am in the morning - what was I thinking! - I have to turn up with a full bladder and if they can't get a proper picture it has to be done trans vaginally ... oh joy!). So maybe that test will shed a bit of light.
Hi Greenfields,
new on here and to hrt, seems we have been through the same, 1st patches and now started with gel and I also have the pressure, swelling of the abdomen and the constant urge to pee and hardly do. I also have a lot of vaginal discomfort and my urethra started hurting a week into the patches. It all started on day 2 of the patches after coming of a low dose pill called Qlaira for 10 months which worked great and gave me no swelling. Dancinggirl has given me great tips and info on how to deal with the "urge" to pee and the vaginal symptoms.
Hope we get results soon
nhb xxx
PS:(going to read the advice others have given use to put in practice, too :) )
Aw you're in a good place being here on this board. I've found the support of others here so helpful - I went through a horrendous time last year - was very ill. I'm better than I was and I've since taken risks that I never thought I would be able to take - moved countries and started a postgrad course ... just to say, last August (2015) was the first time I was able to read a newspaper from cover to cover ... so I'm amazed at how much my health has improved up to now. Keep posting on the board and people will give you support. Hugs xx
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Hi Mary G,
Apologies for the delayed reply.
I am taking 1.5mg oestradiol gel everyday. Sometimes up to 2 mg if feel bit brain fuzzy. I'm also taking Thyroxine 25mcg, and take 100 mg Utrogestan days 15-26 (vaginal insertion). Starting Estriol cream 0.01% for vaginal dryness.
Things seem to be getting ok re mood. Therapy, holiday and lots of tender loving self care; meditation and positivity app (Happify), are helping.
However, during holiday last month and generally when drinking lots of water I noticed increased urge to urinate, and leakage as just as about to sit on loo.
Been to GP, hv had treatment for cystitis, but now been told it could be overactive bladder. Feel damp change knicks around 2-3x a day, and feel stingy/sore. :-\ Been given leaflet for bladder training.
Would it be vaginal insertion of Utrogestan being the cause?
I used to do a lot of Pilates to strengten mid-section & pelvic floor but stopped exercise due to other spine issues. Pity the Pilates has not had long term effects.
Any ideas to improve this situation?
Thanks a lot
Chikabee.
Chikabee, what type/dose of oestrogen are you taking and how much Utrogestan? I have been on HRT for about 9 years and I was post menopause by the time I was your age.
From my own personal experience, it is vital to get the oestrogen/progesterone ratio right and I have found that if I take too much progesterone, it has a drag factor, brings down my mood and drowns out all the positive effects of the oestrogen - it also causes migraines but that is another issue.
Through trial and error, I have also found that I need high blood levels of oestrogen to feel good i.e. be well into the 700s. Anything less than that is useless for me and I feel half baked and not quite there.
It has taken me years to find the right HRT regime but since starting the Professor Studd regime of Oestrogel/Utrogestan/Testosterone, I don't have any menopause symptoms and feel roughly the same as I did aged 30 even though I am 55. If you still have menopause symptoms or don't feel as good as you think you should then you probably need to adjust the dose or change your regime altogether. If you still feel depressed with higher levels of oestrogen you could then consider taking ADs but my advice would be to rule out low oestrogen first.
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Unfortunately some do find that vaginal use of utrogeston causes bladder irritation,I did . It always made my urethra burn and feel like I needed to pee. :-\
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Hi Dazned,
So have you stopped vaginal insertion of Utrogestan? Did that alleviate bladder problems?
Chikabee
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No I stopped it altogether ! Ive been off hrt since last November just didnt feel good on hrt anymore after doing well for on elleste duet 5/6 years it stopped working for me . Tried to persevere with the new regime of estrogen and utrogeston but couldn't put up with the irritation.
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Menomale - using Utro vaginally was definitely a no, no for me - the lovely ‘high' feeling I got from taking Utro orally stopped when I started to use Utro vaginally, I also got a big dip in mood and it irritated my urethra and vagina dreadfully. I'm afraid I found Utro very problematic overall - I think many do better on Provera if Utro doesn't suit them. Provera is the only progesterone I haven't tried but I'm taking a complete break from HRT (still using Vagifem 2-3 times a week) and now, over 3 months with out systemic HRT, I'm coping OK.
DG x
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Like DG, I tried the Utro vaginally this month and within 2 days I had irritation and the start of thrush. Gone back to taking it orally and although I feel tired and drained on it, it seems the lesser of the two evils at the moment. Keep debating a break, but going to have a bleed first.
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Menomale, thanks, that is very interesting about DHEA and progesterone. I take 25mg of DHEA everyday and have felt much better for it. My periods are now lighter although that might be partly due to reducing my Oestrogel dose to 2 pumps everyday. I knew that DHEA converted into oestrogen from my blood test results but I did not know about the progesterone part.
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This is going a bit off topic for this thread - but I'm sure I said elsewhere that the endocrine and enzyme control of sex steroid metabolism is extremely complex biochemistry (can't even begin to understand it) and it cannot be assumed unless there are relevant data demonstrating this, that just because a compound or hormone is on a particular metabolic pathway, increasing or supplementing some precursors will necessarily increase the end hormone or switch the metabolic process along a different route, otherwise we might as well all just eat loads of cholesterol and everything will be fine ie we'll make up any deficiencies! I know that's a bit flippant but hopefully you get my gist. That's just an excuse for my not knowing very much at all about all the peripheral hormone pathways (!) - but intuitively to me there have to be complex limiting factors - and not simply the intermediates in the pathway.
There have been threads on DHEA but perhaps start another one because it's an interesting topic?
Hurdity x
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Thanks Menomale, that is very interesting and please keep us updated on your findings.
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Hi Menomale and MaryG
I've been reading this thread with interest as a friend has been using oestrogel and utrogestan for a while and has recently started taking DHEA. I passed on the details of this conversation this morning to her. Thanks for your comments, they are very interesting. I'm going to look up the detail you provided Menomale and try to better understand it.
Please don't stop posting on any other threads Menomale, you make some very informative and valid comments and shouldn't feel a need to confine yourself to just your own thread. I got the impression that Hurdity was suggesting that what she was saying was a little off topic and also suggesting that a new thread on DHEA could be valuable. Your journey has been an informative and interesting one and we are always glad to read your news.
All good wishes to you both x
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Thanks Elizabethrose, that is very interesting and I would love to hear how your friend gets on. Quite a few women are starting to use DHEA with the Oestrogel/Utrogestan regime and my gynaecologist (who is German) encourages it but she thinks I should only take 10mg everyday whereas Professor MacGregor (someone you know well!) thinks I should take 25mg so I am sticking with the higher dose for now.
I agree, keep posting wherever you like Menomale, I find your posts very informative and wish I was blessed with your scientific brain and language skills. That link you provided was interesting so thanks for that.
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Exactly Menomale - good idea! When there are too many threads from the same person about the same thing, it gets difficult for those of us trying to help and with limited time because then you have to look up everything else the person has said to try to help them and that takes a lot of time. It's great to have the personal experiences in one or two threads if it's an ongoing saga with updates every few days. The forum is so busy it's hard to remember everyone's story and details of all their investigations and medication! However yes the academic aspects of DHEA are very interesting - and separate from personal experiences so when I have time I will find the thread and hopefully people (yourself included of course!!!) will post stuff about what's going on scientifically and we can discuss it! :) .
Right back to the thread - I'm just about to start my course of utrogestan this cycle. Always difficult to time it to avoid being away but making sure the cycle is not too short or too long. I found the two calendar month cycle a bit too long so now it's a bit erratic....Before using the utrogestan I always do a reloading of Vagifem for a few days just to plump up tissues and in my head, hope to limit the systemic absorption of the utro and therefore minimise side effects!
Hurdity x
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Right back to the thread - I'm just about to start my course of utrogestan this cycle. Always difficult to time it to avoid being away but making sure the cycle is not too short or too long. I found the two calendar month cycle a bit too long so now it's a bit erratic....Before using the utrogestan I always do a reloading of Vagifem for a few days just to plump up tissues and in my head, hope to limit the systemic absorption of the utro and therefore minimise side effects!
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity,
I just started the Utrogestan on the 1st and noticed a lot bloating, stomach upset, feeling a bit giddy and my breasts are very tender too and only been on it a week and still another to go ??? Hope it wears off with time, at least I'll give it two cycles before complaining ;D ;D ;D
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Just noticed your quote about life not being about waiting for the storm to pass. I like it. What an appropriate response to those who ask us why we decided to take HRT!
;) Thank you! I think all of us here want to dance in the rain :)
“Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...It's about learning to dance in the rain.â€
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I've just realised I've been taking Utrogestan wrong, only took one tablet this first week, just saw on the box it says two.
Does anyone know if it's ok to continue the rest of the week taking two? Checked to get an appointment online at my GP's and no routine ones till the end of the month...
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It should be fine - many women find they can get away with taking one per day but the licensed dose is 2x100mg capsule (200mg) per day for 12 days each month. If women are using Utro vaginally then it does seem to be OK to use one 100mg capsule per day. Just take 2 capsules before bed for the next 11days . DG x
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Yes I agree fine to take 2 x 100 mg for the rest of the week.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity and Dancingirl! I'll do that, done so tonight after reading you both! Next month I might give it a try vaginally as I have been feeling weird, dizzy, noise in my hearing ear (deaf in one ear since 5 due to an antibiotic, streptomycin) and upset stomach since taking them. This month I'll finish the cycle orally.
hugs and thanks again
xxx
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Hello All
Chipping in with my experience - a good one.
I was put on Oestrogen + Utrogestan in 2012 by a Swiss gynaecologist: one pump and a bit per day of gel and twice a week of Utro vaginally. I am intolerant of progesterone; blow up like a balloon and get breast pain. But spreading out the Utro the way I'm doing is working wonderfully well - no more insomnia, no more vaginal atrophy, no brain fog. I feel I'm getting the benefits of the oestrogen without the progesterone downside.
I take the utro on Monday and Thursday nights after climbing into bed, having applied the gel on alternating thighs during my last trip to the loo before bedtime.
I get regular lining scans and they always range from 2.5mm to 3mm. And this Swiss way, which the doctor said is a normal regime throughout France, Switzerland and Italy, produces no bleed - it keeps the lining thin on its own.
I don't think I would want to subject myself to the raging PMT-style symptoms I would have by taking it for seven consecutive days, as advised by Prof Studd. This Swiss doctor was adamant that this regime would be best for me and, four years later, I'm feeling great with no postmenopausal symptoms.
Hope this helps!
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GuernseyGirl, that sounds like a fantastic HRT regime if you can handle it and not suffer any side effects. Do you take 100mg Utrogestan each time? I tried to do a continuous combined regime and then Utro every other day and failed miserably on both - it triggered migraines - so now I only use a small amount of Utrogestan vaginally every 5 weeks or so and that seems to work. Interestingly, 2 days of 100mg Utrogestan is my limit before I start to feel side effects so perhaps this is the threshold for most women.
However, I wonder if I might just try your regime? Now that I am on 25mg DHEA tablets everyday and producing my own oestrogen again, I will have the protection of my own hormones so this regime might work for me.
I am sure that are plenty of women who could really benefit from this regime. Thanks for sharing it with us.
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Hi ,
I've got a migraine at present which is probably why I got into a mess posting previously,
I was trying to reply to a post by Smarlo - hers is the post that comes out as my post. The bit I wrote never appeared ?!?
I was saying how fantastic I had felt since I started this regime about 2 months ago - apart from almost perminant Hemi-plegic migraine, with severe facial neuralgia 😞
I am so pleased with the calming down of my previously horrendous hot flushes, sweats and endless sleepless nights, but don't think I can live with these migraines. Any suggestions? Ideas?
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I thought that post sounded familiar!
Sorry to hear that you are plagued with migraines but I'm afraid that might be because of the Utrogestan. As a fellow silent migraine sufferer, I can only go by my own personal experiences and there are women on here who thrive on Utrogestan and take it everyday but if you not one of them and can't take it, you can't take it, it's as simple as that.
So it sounds to me like the Oestrogel is doing its stuff and relieving your symptoms but the Utrogestan is permanently in the background causing the migraines and undermining the good work the Oestrogel is doing, par for the course for women like us I'm afraid.
Your current regime is a brilliant choice for women who can easily tolerate Utrogestan and don't want a bleed but if it is giving you a permanent migraine then it might not be a good option for you. Therefore, you could switch to a cyclical regime and take 100mg vaginally for 7 days each month (this is what I do but I stretch it to at least 5 weeks now) and see if that works out - you might just about be able to cope with that level of Utrogestan.
My current regime is last chance saloon for me because I can't tolerate any form of synthetic progesterone and I can't take very much Utrogestan either so it's either that or a hysterectomy.
Why not give the 100mg Utrogestan 7 day regime a try and see how it goes?
How I wish there was something better out there like a hormone free progesterone alternative.
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Dear Mary,
Thanks for your advice, I'll give this 7 day/ 5 week regime a try, - but does it mean a 7 day migraine? Is it the price we have to pay? :-\
I thought it was all too good to be true, but know I am intolerant to progesterone as I couldn't tolerate a mirena coil...
Could you tell me more about the DHEA tablets, do I need to search another thread to find out about it?
Thanks
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GuernseyGirl, you certainly have nothing to lose by trying this regime so why not give it a go? Hopefully it will not mean a 7 day migraine but obviously we are all different and it depends where your personal threshold is - the effects of Utrogestan are cumulative and symptoms kick in after 3 days in my case. You may find that it works better if you concentrate the Utrogestan to 7 days rather than have a constant low dose in the background if you know what I mean. I find that Utrogestan is far more effective and has fewer side effects when used vaginally so use it that way if you can and try to place it next to the cervix.
If you do adopt this regime, it is worth having a uterine scan after a few months is make sure you are getting adequate clearance and thinning of the womb lining - I have been fine taking even less than this dose but again, we are all different so it is worth getting it checked out occasionally. You can try the NHS or pay for it privately and it costs about £100.
Re DHEA tablets, it's definitely worth reading up on them. They have certainly made a huge difference to me and my gynaecologist and Professor MacGregor (migraine specialist) approve of them and agree that I must be producing my own oestrogen again because my oestrogen blood levels are very high for someone using 2 pumps of Oestrogel. More importantly, I feel better and they are keeping the migraines away so again, you could give them a try because what have you got to lose? You can easily buy them online and they are not expensive.
It's not an exact science and there are no guarantees because we all react differently to medication but I hope that helps!
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Just throwing my tuppence into his thread as I'm on utrogestan/oestrogel.
I haven't had any problems with the utrogestan. Feel great aside from lack of sleep which hasn't improved at all.
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MaryG what are the DHEA tablets? What do they do? I have tried both continuous dose of utro and for 5 days and neither have suited me and Ive come off HRT altogether again. Felt great for the first 6-7 weeks and now flushes are back!!
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clare663, I'm sorry to hear that you have had to stop HRT because of the wretched Utrogestan. Have you tried any other forms of progesterone? Unfortunately for many women, progesterone is a necessary evil but the Achilles heel of HRT preparations because none of them seem to manifest themselves in the same way as our own progesterone - well they don't for me anyway. I realise that there are lots of women who get on well with it but if you can't take it, what are you supposed to do?
I came across DHEA tablets by accident while in a pharmacy in Gibraltar but I started taking them and realised that they stopped my migraines while on the Utrogestan phase of HRT. My gynaecologist suggested I reduce to 10mg everyday because I started producing my own oestrogen again and she thought it was rather high but the migraines returned so I have now gone to back 25mg and they have stayed away so far. I contacted my migraine specialist and she said "definitely stick with the 25mg dose" so that is what I intend to do. I still have to go easy on the Utrogestan but this means I can struggle through and take the barest minimum.
So the upshot of the whole thing is, DHEA is a type of steroid that helps you to produce your own hormones again and in my case, this seems to offer me protection against the ill-effects of Utrogestan - I was able to take artificial progesterone pre-menopause without getting migraines so the hope is that now I produce those baseline hormones again, the migraines will stay away. I have also found that my periods are lighter while taking it.
I can only give you my personal experience and there is no guarantee that it will be the same for everyone but you have nothing to lose by trying it and if it doesn't work out, you can simply stop taking it.
It's not available over the counter in the UK but you can buy it online.
One more thing, you should never take DHEA unless you are taking HRT or you have had a hysterectomy because it will cause the womb lining to build up.
I hope that helps.
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Not feeling great...
On day 6 of my 7 day Ultro cycle and had hemiplegic Migraine for 5 days now. Can't drive as it has taken out the right side of my body & stuggling to type.
Also severe joint pain from my EDS today, can hardly move, hasn't been this bad for ages (know EDS is progesterone sensitive)
SO I would like to try DHEA.
I don't suppose members who have had success with it are allowed to mention specific brand names, but from googling I have found out the quality and amount of DHEA in each supplement varies greatly. Could somebody private message me with a brand name they have found reliable please? also they mention on the websites not to self medicate and to get a blood test to get your own levels read before commencing.
I am still battling to get an appointment with the only gynaecologist on the island who is open to prescribing treatment which is considered unorthodox. if she does agree to see me I may have a 6-9 month wait...
I am feeling a bit desperate and would like to add the DHEA to my regime so a little additional help from members who have found it helpful would be greatly appreciated.
Thank t I am feeling a bit desperate and would like to add the DHEA to my regime so a little additional help from members who have found it helpful would be greatly appreciated
Thank you in advance ladies.
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GuernseyGirl, I'm so sorry to hear about your migraines, they sound very debilitating and must really get you down. I am going to PM some DHEA brands to you because as you say, we are not supposed to name brands on here. My favourite brand is actually manufactured in the UK for export only.
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Hi GuernseyGirl - why do you want to take DHEA? Are you already on HRT - including oestrogen progesterone and tesosterone? If so all you need is to get the levels of the added hormones correctly. Although DHEA us a precursor steroid to oestrogen and testosterone, there is no guarantee which and if so how much it will convert to.
There is a Cochrane review on scientific studies looking into the efficacy of DHEA here:
Dehydroepiandrosterone for women in the peri- or postmenopausal phase
http://www.cochrane.org/CD011066/MENSTR_dehydroepiandrosterone-for-women-in-the-peri-or-postmenopausal-phase
Published 22 January 2015
These were the conclusions:
Authors' conclusions:
There is no evidence that DHEA improves quality of life but there is some evidence that it is associated with androgenic side effects. There is uncertainty whether DHEA decreases menopausal symptoms, but DHEA may slightly improve sexual function compared with placebo.
I think the studies were looking at DHEA in women who were not already taking HRT.
There are such limited data and especially about dose, long term effects etc that personally I would not want to use it at this point and particularly regaridng lack of standardisation. Dawncam ( I think it was her) posted recently that her specialist (private) gynae said that she did not need it because she was already taking oestrogen and testosterone and not to waste her money.
I would suggest you concentrate on getting the dosage right of your existing HRT and if you are not already taking testosterone - depending on your age and stage and symptoms - look into this.
Sorry to hear about your migraines - I get them too from time to time - but you still need to take some form of progesterone if you are also taking oestrogen. I don't know your history but you could take it vaginally ( after making sure your vaginal tissues are plumped up) to minimise side effects.
I hope you feel better soon.
Hurdity x
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Don't know what to do.
First three months of hrt on a conti basis oestrogel and utrogestan no spotting no bleeding just didn't like the way continuous utro made me feel.Also no no bleed during days 25 to 28 when no utro taken.
The following three months I used the same products on a seqi basis first bleed was horrendous very heavy, large clots and it felt like my insides were being ripped out in my own mind I decided that the continuos utro over the previous three months had not kept my womb lining thin and this was the result and decided to see how the following couple of months went.
The following couple months bleeds were not as bad still very heavy but not as painful and no big clots.
But I always start the bleed before taking all the course of utro so just just stop it,
Last bleed finished the Sunday before we came away so I had decided to go back to conti basis and then when back from holiday re think this whole hrt thing.
Then ten days into the conti I have started to bleed and this has turned into a period had a panic and have not used the oestrogel or utro since this bleed started but should I just carry on taking them as normal despite the bleeding.
Sorry for the the long post any advice would be helpful.
Lanzalover x
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Hi Lanzalover
Don't panic!
Firstly are you post-menopause and how old are you? if you are post-menopause I would agree with you that the first bleeds were big because your lining had built up on conti prog. What doses are you and were you using for the prog? Cyclical should be 200 mg for 12 days per 28 ( or per month) but this is taken to be with medium dose oestrogen - it could well be not enough for higher oestrogen doses and too much for very low oestrogen doeses (once the settling in time has passed). Also what dose oestrogen?
Could you be peri-menopausal still and having a natural period with your own hormones breaking through? Also oral utro as you know is much less well absorbed in some women so could lead to fluctuating levels and thereby triggering a bleed when levels drop, if the lining is still thickened.
Yes I would carry on taking them for the time being - but what effect it has will depend on the reason for the bleeding. All the time you are taking the prog it is working on preventing the lining from building up. I am a bit hazy about what is actually happening structurally to the endometrium at the point of the bleed - ie as the lining comes away, does the new lining already start to build? If it does then it would defo make sense to continue with the prog - if you see what I mean?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
Sorry for the delay in replying but I am away at the moment and cann't always get internet signal.Plus we have had family here children, partners plus grandchildren so it's been a little hectic.
Now it's just hubby and me and I have a connection thought I would reply.
a) Last period over 8 years ago so very post meno.
b) I use 2 pumps of Oestrogel daily and 100mg Utrogetan (orally) for 25 days just couldn't do 25 days
Vaginaly. With this combination I haven't had any bleeding or spotting issues.
c) the problems arose when trying to do the above on a seqi basis poss due to the fact that I never actually took the 200mg Utro for the full 12 days as once the period arrived I just stopped the utro.usually about day 7.
d) anyway after this little experiment I have decided that I really just cann't be bothered having periods again.
e) bleeding has now stopped so will continue use on a coti basis for the time being.
f) seriously considering Tibolone as an option as not keen on continuous prog and at home I have noticed that recently
the gel is taking forever to absorb into my skin.
Hope the above makes sense cann't see the screen very well in the sun !!!
Lanzalover x
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I was going to suggest Tibolone lanzalover. Like you, I'm fed up with having periods at a time of life when I normally wouldn't. All the planning around utro is also a pain and the periods ...... ooh la la! Anyway, I know lots of women swear by Tibolone. I'm waiting to have a Jaydess fitted which is similar to Mirena but much smaller amounts of prog. Fingers crossed. I too am getting fed up with gel and keep swapping between patches and gel as patches make me blow up like a pumpkin with water retention. I'm considering going back to tablet E alongside the IUD. I never had joint and muscle pain and always slept well on tabs. In fact, if it hadn't been for the down of the prog in Conti tabs, that was the best I've ever felt on hrt. Good luck with your decision.
Dx
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Hi Hurdity
I am struggling to work out which doses of HRT will work as I can't see my gynaecologist until earliest End of Feb 17. She will - I hope- advise me about testosterone too .
My Hemi plegic Migraine lasted 13 days from the second day of taking Ulto. It disables 50% of my body and makes my brain like mush - I just can't go on for 3 more months so will try DHEA (when it comes)
I am taking it the progesterone vaginally.
Am I supposed to stop taking the oestrogen ? I've been bleeding for 8 days but not heavily .
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Hi
I'm just weighing up whether to start on Oestrogel/Utrogestan routine and just need some help/advice please. I'm new to this group (introduced here by one of my friends who told me many ladies in the group use this regime).
First of all I would be asking my GP for this treatment (currently on Femoston) and not sure how easy it is to get on NHS - therein might lie a problem! :-\
Also is the gel messy to use and does it take a long time to dry? Is it usually applied on your arm? Does it affect intimacy with your partner if used in evening or is it used in the morning?
Sorry for all the questions. Hope someone can help.
Thanks a Lot
KAZZ
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Hi I'm new to this. I've started using Estrogel and provera a month ago and decided that I don't like provera tablets now I will take utrogestan tablets this month. It says to take tablets and Estrogel at the same time. But I prefer to take Estrogel in the morningsand want to take utrogestan in the evenings in hope to make me sleepy. Is that okay to do that way? Let me know thanks
Minnie
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Hi Minniecc - When they say ‘at the same time' they mean both on the same day, not necessarily at the same time of day. It will be fine taking the Utro at night and the gel in the morning. Dg x
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Hello
Newbie here.
I am 48, started peri at 43 - hot flushes, night sweats, then all back to normal for 9 months, then same again following year, then last 2 years got progressively longer periods of peri symptoms, coupled with periods of anxiety and crushing insomnia. tried natural remedies, saw a naturopath, herbalist, acupuncturist, all helped to some degree but it was the insomnia that did me in!
Last proper period was January 2016.
I have now been on cyclical HRT for just over 3 months (started 1 Sept) - 2 pumps of estrogel and 200mg (2 tabs orally) of utrogestan on days 15-26 of cycle.
Took a while to settle but this last month I've noticed that my hot flushes/night sweats are returning.I wonder if it might be to do with the new brand of estrogel I'm using. First 2 months was a brand I can't remember, last month was made by Besins Healthcare, same ingredients, dose etc but when I first pumped it out I really noticed that it looked a lot less than the previous gel. I wonder if I've been underdosing slightly all this month and now my symptoms are coming back.
Has anyone else noticed a change to their gel brand and if it looks less in their hand, and/or noticed difference in their symptoms?
I have a few other questions but will start with this one first please, to all you very knowledgeable women out there. This forum is a great resource and thank you to all who reply and help us newbies out!
Thank you.
Merry Christmas.
Ell
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Hi ellmcdee
:welcomemm:
I am sorry I can't help with your gel question but if it doesn't get answered do start a new thread in the new members section and someone will be along to answer eventually ( but it's a busy time at the mo' with Christmas preps!) - not everyone reads long running threads. I know gel users have posted about differences in consistency so I am sure you will get an answer when one of them is not quite so busy! :)
Hurdity x
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ellmcdee I am sure that it's just coincedental....I also use the Besins gel its manufactured in France, on the box it says one plunge of the pump delives 1.25g of gel. Each 2.5g of gel contains 1.5mg of 17B Oestradiol. I have used one and half pumps for many years with no symptoms, so I doubt its the gel, perhaps you just going through a dip and may need to add half a pump more to your routine and see if it helps. The joy of the gel is, that one can adjust it accordingly. :)
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Hello Hurdity and cassie, many thnaks for your replies.
cassie, i've upped my gel a little last few days and maybe seeing a slight improvement.
thanks again!
Ell
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Hi ell
I am on the estrogel everything going well but for about 4 months chemist started giving me eostrodose, the French one. I also thought it was inconsistent in measuring the dose and I was right, when I'm low in estrogen my skin itches and this came back...so my chemist now makes sure it's estrogel for this she has to say to them it's the one that is in English, as it took her requesting it 3 times and they still sent the French one...all sorted now been back on estrogel and no more itching...I would have a word with your chemist to get the one you were getting originally...hope this helps xx
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I have bumped the thread about this product besins so you can read it ell xx
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The side effects of Utrogestan (for those of us who are progesterone intolerant) never cease to amaze me. I am trying to shake off a nasty bout of flu that put me in bed for over a week, have lost about half a stone. I delayed use of Utro (100 mg v-route x 12) for as long as I could - however - oh my goodness - all day, every single day I have suffered extreme nausea and some retching, the absolute worst black depression - the side effects have been most extreme. I will never understand how even when taken v-route, Utro has such strong systemic effects - no way is it just "localised". It is such powerful stuff, even at 100mg.
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That's awful, it must be such a huge burden for you to take it, it doesn't register with me at all.
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I'm fine with the utro, but I have heard provera is good also. Have any of you tried this if utro causing problems? Xx
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Hi Night_Owl
:bighug:
Sorry to hear you are still suffering from the progesterone...as well as the flu, and hope you get better soon...
Hurdity x
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I'm after some advice please ladies. I have been reading though this thread but have only got up to page 10 so far and am seriously thinking of requesting estrogel/utrogestan from my GP but would like some help in making my decision.
A quick rundown; I'm 48 and have been having peri problems since I was 41. My periods are infrequent now - I've just started my first period since June (before then I had one in January and a scant one in Feb). My main concerns are bad anxiety, low mood, muscle aches, VA (I'm on Vagifem), hot flushes and fatigue.
My anxiety and low mood are getting worse and the VA can be troublesome occasionally even with the Vagifem. I have previously tried HRT and every time that estrogen is introduced, my anxiety has gone through the roof and I've been an irritable, wound up mess. I have migraines with aura and, due to this, my GP recommended the Evorel Conti patches but I didn't get on well with them at all. I have tried anti-depressants, which were amazing for my anxiety, low mood AND hot flushes but caused my hair to fall out - nice! So I've been managing with nothing for a few months now and need some help.
I've read good things about the estrogel/utrogestan combo and am wondering if anyone can share their experience of getting relief from anxiety from this regime? Also, how likely is it that my GP will actually prescribe it?
Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. Many thanks for reading and Merry Christmas :) xx
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Hello there. I am updating the group on my experience of having decided to drop my progesterone to three times a week - I started this in July after having taken Utrogestan continuously and orally since 2010 - but something must have changed because I felt quite low a lot of the time with a sort of brain fog and decided - rightly or wrongly - that I was getting too much Progesterone. I got the idea from this thread - someone had been prescribed this regime by a gynecologist in Switzerland. I take two squirts of Oestrogel daily. I started this in late July and in mid- August I had a massive bleed which went on for a week - it was slightly unnerving but it felt like a purge and made me feel really good! I went to see my GP who immediately ordered a scan. Scan showed endometrial thickness within normal limits. I also asked GP for referral to menopause clinic (Mr Panay). Bleeding stopped after about ten days and for a couple of months I had enlarged and rather painful boobs - but after that everything settled down and I have felt - within the usual ups and downs - well and in balance. I saw the Nurse Practitioner at the menopause clinic who was very helpful and thought the reason things had changed was that my oestrogen levels had dropped - but the blood test confirmed that they were pretty much as they had been a couple of years earlier. She asked for another scan which showed that everything is fine and healthy. So going forward I wil keep to this regime with at least an annual scan just to check no build up. I did my research and found a couple of small sample studies which looked at this sort of regime and concluded that it did not compromise endometrial health. From my experience and that of the other person who has posted on this thread it seems that this regime could be used more widely. I get very occasional spotting which to me is a price worth paying!
Healthy and balanced new year to everyone!
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I agree with Stellajane - I was using one pump per day and 100mg Utro daily and still got erratic spotting and cramping. We are all different so will respond differently - anything that is contrary to the recommended use of any HRT regime must be accompanied by regular scans and checks.
Fullmoon - I'm pleased you are finding a good option for you but, as Stellajane has said, you are doing this under supervision and with regular checks which is very wise. DG x
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Hi Stellajane and DancingGirl - yes - thanks for adding that - I am doing this under supervision. I have shared this because there is research evidence which suggests this regime would suit many women but for some reason (the need for regular scans perhaps or just because there hasn't been enough research - this approach has not been widely adopted). However in terms of the amount of progesterone it is not any different from the 'Studd' approach - but just fairly continuous out instead of having three progesterone free weeks and one week on. I find I need the progesterone but every day feels too much (and by the way when I changed I also started to take the utrogestan vaginally which reduced breast pain and stomach problems - a bonus!). As always I am left with the view that much more research is needed but there is no incentive for pharma companies to do it and no research funds really from independent sources. Now if I won the lottery....
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Thanks so much for your feedback Fullmoon. I agree more research is needed and HRT is far from a "one size fits all" regime.
I am on Estradot 50mcg patch, twice a week vagifem and alternate days of vaginal progesterone. I am 53 years old, 2 years post menopausal and have no spotting at all. My scan a month ago showed a thin lining of 3mm.
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Thanks so much for your feedback Fullmoon. I agree more research is needed and HRT is far from a "one size fits all" regime.
I am on Estradot 50mcg patch, twice a week vagifem and alternate days of vaginal progesterone. I am 53 years old, 2 years post menopausal and have no spotting at all. My scan a month ago showed a thin lining of 3mm.
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I'm fine with the utro, but I have heard provera is good also. Have any of you tried this if utro causing problems? Xx
Yes I tried it and made me so nauseous I couldn't move, I also couldn't sleep on it so had to stop after 48 hours. I am quite severely intolerant to progesterone though. Utro is better but not ideal I see Studd so I'm on his 7 day regime.
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The side effects of Utrogestan (for those of us who are progesterone intolerant) never cease to amaze me. I am trying to shake off a nasty bout of flu that put me in bed for over a week, have lost about half a stone. I delayed use of Utro (100 mg v-route x 12) for as long as I could - however - oh my goodness - all day, every single day I have suffered extreme nausea and some retching, the absolute worst black depression - the side effects have been most extreme. I will never understand how even when taken v-route, Utro has such strong systemic effects - no way is it just "localised". It is such powerful stuff, even at 100mg.
Night owl I was really interested in your post appreciate its a few weeks ago. I too am intolerant to prog and use utro v route for 7 days I see Studd so this is his regime. He's even let me skip some months when I've been ill or simply unable to face it. I agree it is powerful stuff and I get a very good bleed. The side effects are just awful though but some months bearable other months I get the horrific depression, could sob all day, it always ruins my sleep though I hate the stuff but I have 2 little boys so have to plough on. Hope you feel better now :)
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Hi Stellajane and DancingGirl - yes - thanks for adding that - I am doing this under supervision. I have shared this because there is research evidence which suggests this regime would suit many women but for some reason (the need for regular scans perhaps or just because there hasn't been enough research - this approach has not been widely adopted). However in terms of the amount of progesterone it is not any different from the 'Studd' approach - but just fairly continuous out instead of having three progesterone free weeks and one week on. I find I need the progesterone but every day feels too much (and by the way when I changed I also started to take the utrogestan vaginally which reduced breast pain and stomach problems - a bonus!). As always I am left with the view that much more research is needed but there is no incentive for pharma companies to do it and no research funds really from independent sources. Now if I won the lottery....
Thanks for the update. Yes I have a paper (or the abstract of it) somewhere which describes a small study demonstrating that alternate day vaginal progesterone is sufficient to keep the endometrium thin (on average) with a medium dose of oestrogen (if I remember correctly!). I'm pretty sure I posted the abstract or summary of it on here on this thread - maybe even twice as the thread is long!
I would say it is different from the Studd approach because the amount of progesterone needed to keep the endometrium thin is not just the total amount but also to do with the length of time you take it - otherwise you could take an even larger amount over 3 days. When progesterone is used sequentially, it needs time to convert all the endometrium from proliferative to secretory and this can't be done in 3 days not matter how big the dose ( as I understand it) - because progesterone is unstable and breaks down quickly in the body. When it is used continuously it alters the receptors in the endometrium so that they are not responsive to oestrogen so the proliferative stage does not occur - but again this needs to be at the right dose/balance between oestrogen and progesterone.
This is why it is important to do it under supervision - and very glad to see it it working for you Fullmoon :) . I am wondering if I would tolerate this regime - but I still feel nervous of having any form of progesterone every day because of worries about the breast even though progesterone is likely to be the safest type! I am just ultra cautious - probably because I am in my 60's!!!
Hurdity x
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Please can I ask if anyone else has the most appalling sleep when taking utro. I've heard it makes people sleep really soundly but it wrecks my sleep. I wake up a lot and early and have lots of exhausting vivid dreams and light tossing/turning sleep. I've only taken 4 days so far and can't wait for the 7 to be over I'm shattered..I find its dire on the withdrawal phase too...should add I am intolerant! Just interested in others experiences and any tips, afraid I just rely on a strong coffee and then run round after my 2 little boys!x
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It gives me insomnia, crazy dreams and often nausea in my sleep, not fun @ all! Also feel very wired, like I have had too much caffeine when on it, never experience the lovely sleep that people brag about.... >:(
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Yes I'm with you Cassie!! Can't wait to get my sleep back next week once off it it's horrid :( x
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I too have poor sleep, weird dreams & I always wake early like wide awake at around 6am, it too has me shattered by the end of the cycle. I'm actually taking 12x200 vaginally (the licensed dose) & have been using this regime almost a year but found the withdrawal was leading to awful migraines so I tried to cut down to the 100x12 vaginally but both months I tried this I began bleeding by days 10 & 7 so never took the full 12 days. I went back onto the 12x200 in September & have had rubbish sleeps ever since while on the Utrogestan & my migraines r now happening while on it... NOT just at the withdrawal phase.. I am currently on day 5 & I feel so groggy & tired in the morning then my migraine will begin... they're not bad one's, quite mild actually, but they're there all the same which they are not when I'm on oestrogen only. Last month I only did 10 days of Utrogestan as I did have one really bad migraine & couldn't wait to be finished. I am toying with trying the 100 x 12 again but don't hold out much hope of getting the full 12 days without bleeding. I was quite well on this regime when I first began it last year. It seems, with me, that the longer I have been taking it the more intolerant I am becoming :(
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It gives me vivid dreams and also I am restless because it affects my bladder and have to get up to go to the loo! However I always feel groggy in the morning....Last cycle I eased myself into the 200 mg dose by having 2 days either side of 100 mg - so I think I had it for 13 days in all (vaginally).
Goosieloosie - what is your oestrogen dose because you should get fairly high absorption from 100 mg vaginally, so perhaps you are on a higher oestrogen dose? I do find that when I shorten my cycle the side effects do get worse. Currently I am on a long cycle of 6-8 weeks and that seems to give me time to get over the prog! I am only on medium dose of oestrogen and my doc is also happy with this.
Hurdity x
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It gives me vivid dreams and also I am restless because it affects my bladder and have to get up to go to the loo! However I always feel groggy in the morning....Last cycle I eased myself into the 200 mg dose by having 2 days either side of 100 mg - so I think I had it for 13 days in all (vaginally).
Goosieloosie - what is your oestrogen dose because you should get fairly high absorption from 100 mg vaginally, so perhaps you are on a higher oestrogen dose? I do find that when I shorten my cycle the side effects do get worse. Currently I am on a long cycle of 6-8 weeks and that seems to give me time to get over the prog! I am only on medium dose of oestrogen and my doc is also happy with this.
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity, I am on a 50mg Estradot patch & this has not changed in 11 months of using. My husband had suggested to me that I alternate each day with 200 then 100 then 200 and so on until day 12 if I can manage it? What is your opinion on this? Many thanks
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Yes I'm better on long cycle. I did try monthly for a while but after several months the side effects seemed to be getting worse. Its definitely beneficial for me to minimise my exposure to progesterone!
Hi stellajane can I ask what your regime is on a long cycle? I'm just wondering if it might suit me better than monthly? Thank you :)X
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GoosieLoosie - I once took progesterone on alternate days - this was several years ago and using Cyclogest (vaginal) pessaries - before utrogestan was available or well known. However I was trialling a continuous combined HRT with Estradot only at 25 mcg. I did this for several months and it certainly worked - I did not bleed at all during the time I was using it, so my body clearly adjusted to the fluctuating levels, although I was on a very low oestrogen dose.... I think it would be worth a try at least! Failing this if you are post-meno have you thought of stretching the cycle a bit and seeing if you can tolerate it for longer? This would need to be done under supervision but several of us are on long cycles.
Niamh - re the longer cycles - I am on this regime too but it really will work best if post-menopausal and then your own cycle won't kick in. It does not seem to be as popular with gynaecologists because of the increased risk of endometrial thickening (just as with shorter doses of progesterone ie 7 days also increases this risk). Whenever I have shortened mine (cycle) the progesterone has affected me more. It also depends on your oestrogen dose - it will work best on medium dose as otherwise breakthrough bleeding may occur. You would need to have a regular scan too but if you are able to (have regular scans) I can't see why you should not try - even if it was just 5 weeks (if you are post-meno).
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity no I'm not post I'm 42 and saw Studd as a pms patient. I use 2 pumps of ostrogel and my own cycle has been suppressed by this I get no breakthrough of my own cycle or horrid fluctuations, I took a while though!! I think I absorb the gel really well and on my blood tests my ostrogen levels are high now so Studd said my own cycle is suppressed which has stopped my horrific pms. However i struggle with utro so I'm on his 7 day regime monthly. I might ask him about the long cycle as I see him this week. X
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The side effects of Utrogestan (for those of us who are progesterone intolerant) never cease to amaze me. I am trying to shake off a nasty bout of flu that put me in bed for over a week, have lost about half a stone. I delayed use of Utro (100 mg v-route x 12) for as long as I could - however - oh my goodness - all day, every single day I have suffered extreme nausea and some retching, the absolute worst black depression - the side effects have been most extreme. I will never understand how even when taken v-route, Utro has such strong systemic effects - no way is it just "localised". It is such powerful stuff, even at 100mg.
Night owl I was really interested in your post appreciate its a few weeks ago. I too am intolerant to prog and use utro v route for 7 days I see Studd so this is his regime. He's even let me skip some months when I've been ill or simply unable to face it. I agree it is powerful stuff and I get a very good bleed. The side effects are just awful though but some months bearable other months I get the horrific depression, could sob all day, it always ruins my sleep though I hate the stuff but I have 2 little boys so have to plough on. Hope you feel better now :)
Hi Niamh - thanks, yes I eventually recovered, it took weeks! Quite a few of us are progesterone intolerant - it's my main bugbear and once again I'm pondering coming off HRT as I so dread/loathe taking the prog - it seems to alter my brain chemistry so much these days.
And yes the side effects I've always found to be awful, but weirdly some months even worse than others - and yes I feel the same, could sob all day - also I get super-analytical about life and over-think more than I usually do. Prog has an effect on the neurotransmitters and can reduce serotonin levels. The last use was definitely worse having the flu virus.
I'm in a different place on the meno journey - now 54 and c.10 years post meno - the regime is from the Panay clinic: Estraderm 25 patch and 12 x 100mg (no way can I do 200mg) Utro, v-route, 6 clear weeks inbetween use (sometimes I stretch it to 7), yearly endo scans.
Maybe Studd would consider the long cycle to give you more of a reprieve from Utro - but as Hurdity says, it's possibly more of a post meno regime, still worth discussing though - regular endo scans are key to the long cycle - it's trial and error all the way - hope you find a way forward. x
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Night owl I definitely find some months worse than others this month hasn't been that bad, my sleep improved on night 5... I have had a horrible mood drop today though and did feel like I was going to lose it this morning 😳 but always feel better in the late afternoon/eve..I've had headaches the last 2 days though and omg my appetite it's like I'm hungover I could eat for England 😬😂😂 only 1 more dose tonight thank God 👏👏x
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I'll report back on weds after I see him! So excited about popping that last one 😂X
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Thanks Hurdity no I'm not post I'm 42 and saw Studd as a pms patient. I use 2 pumps of ostrogel and my own cycle has been suppressed by this I get no breakthrough of my own cycle or horrid fluctuations, I took a while though!! I think I absorb the gel really well and on my blood tests my ostrogen levels are high now so Studd said my own cycle is suppressed which has stopped my horrific pms. However i struggle with utro so I'm on his 7 day regime monthly. I might ask him about the long cycle as I see him this week. X
Hi again - ah I see - not menopause then. If your blood levels are really high he may well not recommend a longer cycle as you may get more thickening and therefore some breakthrough bleeding if you go longer than 3 weeks unopposed oestrogen each cycle - and also you would then have to take progesterone for more days per cycle to ensure shedding. If your bleeds are quite heavy then it is likely not to be advised. However would be interesting to hear his views!
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity he let me skip it one month as I was really ill so I went right from about 7th of I think June until 1st August with no progesterone. I literally got a 4 day breakthrough bleed on 26th July just before I took the progesterone...he did warn me I might but I was surprised I went so long! I'll see what he says I'd grin and bear taking it for longer if it meant a longer gap without. Feel unbearably sick today but at least I've done my 7 days now just the withdrawal to survive! I normally get about a 4 day bleed which isn't too heavy but I've had the odd heavier period of maybe 7 days and on the heavy side for the first 3/4 days x
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Hi Matildamouse - good to know someone else is doing the alternate day regime - and glad it is working for you.
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Thanks Fullmoon. It was nearly 18 months of trial and error, hit and miss etc before I tried this regime on a holiday where I mistakenly did not take adequate progesterone capsules. In my opinion the fact that I am 2 years post menopausal now plays a big and positive role to ensure no spotting etc
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Am I going mad or have I read on here something about a really mood drop/dip 5 days post stopping utro phase? I'm sure I've had it before and read something....my withdrawal has been OK until today when I've noticed a real mood dip, irritable, flat...bleed started yesterday...is it just to do with my body stabilising as the prog leaves my system? I hope so!x
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Someone did say they experienced this and wondered if it was due to the prog. This woman was taking synthetic prog though. If your bleed has started though then it sounds like this could be responsible? I mean if it had taken 4/5 days for your bleed to start this implies that the prog is still in your system. The physiological changes (from removal of the prog) presumably take a while to fully take effect :-\. Hopefully you will feel better soon :)
Hurdity x
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Someone did say they experienced this and wondered if it was due to the prog. This woman was taking synthetic prog though. If your bleed has started though then it sounds like this could be responsible? I mean if it had taken 4/5 days for your bleed to start this implies that the prog is still in your system. The physiological changes (from removal of the prog) presumably take a while to fully take effect :-\. Hopefully you will feel better soon :)
Hurdity x
Thanks Hurdity I always get my bleed the morning of the 4th day post stopping so last dose was Sunday night bleed came Thursday first thing...mood drop today day 5 :(
Studd also wants me to use 3 pumps of gel, I use 2 but I don't really see why, my own cycle and hence my pms has been suppressed (saw him for pms) I feel good no symptoms when just on ostrogen only issue is prog as I'm intolerant. I really don't see why I need to use 3 last time I did it made me anxious and jittery 🤔 I feel flat today so maybe it would help that but I don't normally do think it's prog withdrawal x
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Hello ladies,
This is all so helpful.
I'm not sure if I should post my question here or on the VA thread, as its a progesterone - VA question, but here goes.
I'm back on Estrogel as of three months -after being on Tibolone for a couple of years - and take progesterone in the form of oral Duphaston, 12 days every 3 months. (I do frequent scans and my doctor is fine with this).
I developed very bad VA on the Tibolone as was not given anything local, with bad burning inside and out but mainly bladder irritability and pelvic pain. I live in India and couldnt find Vagifem (its not sold here) so I had to use horrible Premarin cream. This works to an extent. I also went back to Estrogel, about 2 1/2 puffs.
Here's my question: I was sort of managing until I got a tooth abcess this week and am having to take Ampicillin (tooth comes out Thursday). I am always reluctant to use antibiotics because I find they affect estrogen uptake. I also in my wisdom, decided this was the time I should take Duphaston. Two days into Ampicillin and Duphaston together and I feel AWFUL.
My bladder is going insane with constant urgency and pelvic aching. I had to sleep sitting up last night and managed exactly 4 hours sleep.
Does this sound familiar?
I am wondering if I should stop the progesterone til I've finished the antibiotic (3 more days) and then restart it.
The good news is I've managed to get a supply of Vagifem and intend to start it every other day as soon as the progesterone cycle is over.
Any thoughts appreciated greatly.
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Matildamouse - I'm considering alt day utro as about to have mirena removed. Was it straightforward for you? Do you take orally or vaginally? Are you ok with prog generally? Sorry for all the questions, just want to consider all options.
Mx
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Hi Kkay
I can't comment on the ABs and hormones but if you have vagifem then do start as soon as possible - no need to wait until you have finished the ABs.As it acts locally and you are already using Estrogel it won't have any negative effect. The sooner you start local oestrogen the sooner VA will become under control.
Hurdity x
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Kkay
Here's my advice. It does sound as though you have a UTI (bladder) infection so get a sample of your urine to the doctor for testing a.s.a.p. - you may need a course of the right ABS to treat this. I doubt it's the progesterone or even the ABs making you feel really bad - it's more likely to be the infection from the abcess and possible urinery tract infection.
I get this horrible burning urethra and UTI type symptoms quite often, it's due to VA and when I get the urine tested there is no infection present!!!. You have a the bladder urgency so this may be an actual infection.
My prevention strategies: As soon as I feel the burning I drink a glass of water with half a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda morning and evening and the rest of the time I take good drinks of water throughout the day - this helps to flush things through and reduces the discomfort. Many women think they should drink less but it's very important to drink more. Avoid coffee, tea, spicy food and anything acidic e.g. fruit juices, that will make the urine more acidic.
You also need some vaginal moisturiser e.g. SYLK and possibly Multi Gyn Actigel - this will alleviate soreness and helps to get the vial flora balance back. You can get these online.
My reasoning for all this is around keeping the urogenital area in a healthy balance. When meno hits, the urogenital area atrophies and becomes more sensitive and prone to infections e.g. bacterial vaginitis and thrush, and these infections can lead to irritation in the urethra and bladder infections. ABs will upset the gut flora and this can lead to thrush etc. - do eat lots of live yogurt to restore this flora balance. If you have an basses you do need the ABs.
If you can get the doctor to prescribe Vagifem then you may be able to get it online through his prescription. There is also Ovestin local oestrogen which is a cream but is a little bit stronger. The oestrogel should help things as well but may take time but I doubt it's the progesterone making you feel unwell - it is more likely to be the infection from your tooth - in my experience, I'm afraid it's a multi strategy approach to control all this. Hope this helps DG x
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Matildamouse - I'm considering alt day utro as about to have mirena removed. Was it straightforward for you? Do you take orally or vaginally? Are you ok with prog generally? Sorry for all the questions, just want to consider all options.
Mx
I take it vaginally (alternate days) and has no problems. When I took it orally, it was daily but I did feel a bit sedated and woozy headed but I liked that as it helped me to fall asleep at night.
Just make sure to do regular scans.
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Thank you Dancing Girl and Hurdity for your feedback; much appreciated.
Hurdity; you're right about how its important to start the vagifem as soon as possible. My reasoning for postponing it til after I finish the progesterone days is that the progesterone always makes me feel funny in the bladder/urethra area (it affects the estrogen uptake I think) so I'm afraid to switch from powerful Premarin to weaker Vagifem while already affected by progesterone...does that make sense?
DancingGirl, I'll go have a urine test and get the bicarbonate of soda as well.
Many thanks to you both. I have no idea how I would have kept my sanity without this forum.
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I am on day 6 of my 12 day course of Utrogestan and am so bloated, I look about 5 mths preggers.... >:(
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Due to start my 7 days Utrogestan tonight and I have a bit of light bleeding. Edited to add that now it looks like a proper bleed. What's that all about then? I have been on this regime for about 18 months and that hasn't happened before.
Do I start with the Utrogestan tonight or leave it for a month?
Grateful if anyone has any ideas.
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Trufflecat, agree with SJ, carry on as usual - however, do you normally take it v-route?
[By comparison, I've experienced something similar - a breakthrough bleed but not a proper bleed - I'm on long cycle. I've put it down to 'cumulative' endo build-up, over time, that breaks away - I'm well post-meno so assume it's not a natural 'background' period - and hopefully the Utro clears it all.]
Possibly the 7 day Utro may have to be revised. When is your next endo scan?
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I agree with Night_Owl Trufflecat - maybe 7 days in insufficient to keep the lining thin. Sorry I can't remember where you are in menopause? If you are peri- then your own cycle might be kicking in early. Otherwise it could signal your lining is too thick and coming away without additional progesterone? Are you taking it vaginally? I can see it is a bit tricky to use it daily while bleeding and to be sure that enough is getting though to be effective....
Hurdity x
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Thank you for the replies. I am 53 and in peri. I think I am intolerant of progesterone and that's why I am on the 7 days (vaginally) a month plus four pumps of Oestrgen. I have never had a scan. Perhaps I should suggest it to my GP.......who I have not seen for ages.
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4 pumps is a high dose of estrogen so think that 7 days of utrogeston may not be enough to oppose the e and lining may have built up and thus is shedding. I think a scan would be a good idea if you intend to continue with your current regime.
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Thanks. I will phone my GP in the morning.
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Hi have been posting on another thread about my oestregel not working after 5 months. Ha don't bloods back todayntold 256 can anyone tell em if this is high/low or what? I'm feeling pretty rough heavy meno symptoms all back waiting to see gynae. Thanks x
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Hi Catspelle
Those levels are not high nor low - they are fine for post-menopausal woman on HRT - as long as you are not getting symptoms as they are well within the range of the follicular phase of the natural menstrual cycle. What symptoms are you getting? Most advice is to go on symptoms rather than oestrogen levels within reason. eg my oestrogen levels may well be lower than that (or somewhere around that levels) and I get no flushes nor sweats and never have done on this dose since starting HRT in late peri-menopause.
It also depends where you are in menopause and how old you are etc, and the dose? Perhaps your own cycle is kicking in?
Hurdity x
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Hello ladies, I'm just feeling a bit fed up at the moment, I'm 55, 2 & half years post meno & been on the Utrogestan & Estradot patch regime for one year. Every month on the progesterone part (of which I take 200x 12days vaginally)I have suffered with migraine, so last August I tried the 100x 12 days vaginally for a couple of cycles and both times I began bleeding at around days 7 & 10 so I went back up to the 200 x 12 days regime & this works perfectly fine for me in terms of not bleeding early, except I have migraines which are particularly bad towards the end of the course and for a couple of days after stopping until the bleed begins :( So after a very bad time the last month of taking 200 x 12 I decided this month to try alternating between 100 day one, then 200 day two, then 100 day three etc for at least 10 days (12 days if I could get that far without migraine or bleeding), anyway I managed to take 10 days alternating but I have began bleeding on day 10, though I did take the last 200 3 days ago as I ended up with a migraine the following morning & I thought I could finish the remaining 3 days left on just 100, (obviously I cannot take the 100 as I always end up bleeding before I finish the course). So what can I do? 200 is too much, apart from migraine I feel so anxious & irritable on it & 100 is not enough to stop me bleeding before I finish the course :-\ I'm also absolutely fed up with bleeding and having cramps that go with it, today I have felt like just packing the whole HRT thing in, all this jiggling around gets to you, if it was a simple case of taking a table each day and everything ticking along nicely....but it isn't is it? It's a constant battle of jigging and jogging things around & no sooner have I finished a bleed and it's time to start the whole flipping regime again :'(. I'm probably just feeling sorry for myself as it's most likely progesterone withdrawal at the mo & I do forget how bad I was prior to HRT & the reason why I'm taking it....what I mean is I'll probably stop HRT and regret it a few months down the line. Any ideas or suggestions from any of you would be most welcome. Not really sure how much more I could 'tweak' this regime though :-\
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Would 100 one day and 200 the next be worth a try? It might stop the levels from dropping too low
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Hi Goosieloosie - have you thought about: (1) a long cycle regime so you'll have a longer time with estrogen only - and take Utro every 6/7 weeks; (2) maybe reducing your estrogen, if you can get by on a lower dose, to reduce the monthly bleed/cramps. Or maybe both. [I have migraine too and get by on long cycle, low dose but as we know, we're all different.]
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Just revising previous thinking on this, a long cycle may not be right on your current dose of estrogen - maybe reducing it would work better. It is all annoying and draining trial and error!
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SJ, I can't drink any alcohol at all now as it brings on a migraine, anything sparkly is the absolute worst - as you can imagine, this is not a lot of fun at any celebratory occasion! For quite some time now, I've been taking Magnesium and B2 (Riboflavin) for migraine prevention, which seems to work - or it may just be that the fluctuations have levelled somewhat. Who knows with the mystery of meno - I certainly don't. Next year it could all change again, as the process marches on.
Unfortunately I have found with the most recent uses of Utro that the side effects were much worse in terms of very low mood and irritability - almost as if I'm getting even more (if that's possible!) intolerant to progesterone with the passing of time - as if my body processes it even more poorly and is saying 'no more'. Just great. I'm going to discuss this all (yet again for what feels like 99th time) at next meno clinic appointment. Like you, I have tried all other prog options and hyster is a no-go for me.
It's good that you've found a personally tailored regime that works and has good symptom control, upping the estrogen only when on Utro - and you are still able to cope with taking Utro (it's always such a relief when taking Utro to get to the last one though, isn't it). Long may it continue.
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Would 100 one day and 200 the next be worth a try? It might stop the levels from dropping too low
Hi trufflecat, this is exactly what i have done this month and I took the last 200 on day 7 ( as I'd had a particularly bad migraine the morning after taking it) & my plan was to continue taking 100 until day 12 but I began bleeding on day 10 three days after the last 200 so it seems I just can't take 100 for the full course as I always bleed early :'(.
Hi Goosieloosie - have you thought about: (1) a long cycle regime so you'll have a longer time with estrogen only - and take Utro every 6/7 weeks; (2) maybe reducing your estrogen, if you can get by on a lower dose, to reduce the monthly bleed/cramps. Or maybe both. [I have migraine too and get by on long cycle, low dose but as we know, we're all different.]
Night owl, thankyou for your advice, oh how I would love to have a longer 6-7 week cycle!! I am on Estradot 50 so do you think this would be too high a dose to try this? I am absolutely feeling fine on the 50 and would rather not lower it and upset the apple cart so to speak :-\ though it may be a case of having to try this, how long do you think it would take for symptoms to show if they were going to? Before asking the GP for the lower 37 patch could I cut a tiny piece off do you think? Just to experiment?? As I said though I'd rather stick with the 50 and not risk upsetting the apple cart. :-\
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Hi Goosieloosie. I have been on almost the same, with the 50 patch but 200 utro 10 days per month orally. I also bled a little early on the utro every time. I initially tried changing the timing of the start of utro to 15 days from the start of the bleed, to attempt lining up what could have been my own background cycle with the utro timing. It didn't work, still bled early, but my doctor assured me that bleeding early was not a problem, to complete the course and carry on. I stretched my cycle to 6-7 weeks some last summer to accomodate travels, and felt much better during that time. Because I only take it 10 days and couldn't make myself take it longer due to mood effects, I went back to every 4 weeks at the end of summer. I felt off in November, and hit bottom again in December. Like you, the migraines and low mood seemed to become progressively worse with time. In January I discussed with my doctor and attempted to lower to 100 continuously and about 10 days in began a bleed. I allowed a withdrawal with no utro for 5 days and began utro again at 100. Only a few days in, migraine and frightening depression. I have decided to quit the whole lot. I stopped the utro, and 2 days later, for the first time ever, began a bled after stopping utro, even though I had just finished a bleed a week before. I'm tapering the patch down now and expect I'll to have to go one more course of utro. I know this doesn't help you, but you're experience sounds so similar to mine I thought I sold share.
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GL, as far as I can recall, Hurdity is on long cycle Estradot 50, Utro 200mg x 12, v-route, 6/7 weekly - she will no doubt be along to give more information, she's expert. It also depends on how far along you are with meno too.
Some women take Utro for 7 days per month, but I'm not sure of the estrogen dose.
From what I've read, the long cycle regime doesn't suit everyone and it depends how far post meno you are - sometimes women get breakthrough bleeding when the estrogen dose is high-ish - it also still means taking the Utro at the higher 200mg strength and regular endo scans - the pay off is a longer 'estrogen holiday'.
[I could never tolerate a high dose of estrogen due to having to match it with taking a high dose progesterone to counter it and the resulting cramps/bleeds - it created too much fluctuation and the migraines were worse - and I couldn't live with the constant merry-go-round of progesterone side effects/withdrawal/bleed/pain. For my constitution, a lower dose works better. But that's just me. I still don't tolerate Utro at lower 100mg but I know it's an evil necessity as without any HRT, I have zero quality of life. We have to experiment and we're all so different.]
Estradot are really tiny aren't they, so it may be difficult to cut off an even amount each time. When altering estrogen doses, I've found it takes just a couple of weeks to notice differences.
Maybe mull it over and think about 37.5 with 6 weekly Utro 200.
It's never easy when you have meno plus migraine to manage. It's even more of a juggling act.
Lizab, hope it goes well with the tapering down - some of us really struggle with Utro and in the end decide a break is needed to see how things are.
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Thank you Stellajane, Night owl & Lizab, everything you have all suggested has given me something to think about....as much as I'd love the 6-7week cycle (which will actually be really handy for an upcoming holiday in June that needs juggling around with the utro business) I do realise lowering to 37.5 might be a possibility as I do suffer with terrible cramps & quite a clotty bleed on the 50 even though I generally feel fine on this dose (no meno symptoms). Yes the Estradot patches are very tiny but as I have loads of 50 ones left I would rather use them up & cut a slither off the end if this is possible & they will still stick as good as they usually do? :-\
Lizab...Thank you so much for sharing, I have often thought that I too would never be able to manage to take utro continuously as I would bleed for sure before I got past 10 days! And as I use it vaginally it isn't the easiest or most pleasant thing to be doing whilst having a bleed to be able to carry on with the course :o.
It is also the same with me that the longer I have been using Utro the more I seem to not be tolerating it so well, when I first began this regime a year ago I was perfectly fine on the 200 x 12!! Now I have terrible sleeps (very very restless), irritable, as well as migraine.
Incidentally does anyone know why we bleed before we have finished the course of utro ??? I always understood it was the withdrawal at the end that triggers the bleed and this month I was still actually taking 100 & had 2 more left to take (insert) when the bleed started? So how can this be?
Btw I am 2 & half years post meno & age 55.
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Hi Goosieloosie
I see my name has been mentioned a couple of times - I've been away for the weekend - only just back so haven't looked at the forum!
Yes that's right - thanks Night_Owl you've remembered my regime exactly!!!
MY first thought on reading your post earlier was that 50 mcg should be absolutely fine for a longer cycle - since it is for me- but of course we all absorb oestrogen differently and maybe you are absorbing more than I am? Also maybe you have the odd fibroid? These can affect bleeding patterns (last time I was scanned I had a very small one but not enough to make any difference). I was very surprised that 100 mg vaginally for 12 days is not enough to prevent your having an early bleed - since limited research has shown (small study though) that approx half the dose was need when used vaginally than orally and also the dose is far more consistent as it goes directly to the uterus. I have never bled early using progesterone of any description. Also I am now actually ( unofficially) on 62.5 mcg and still on 6-7 week cycle (occasionally 8 ). My bleeds are never heavy, although since I now have more cycles nearer to 7 weeks and have upped my oestrogen dose, I have a heavy day or day and a half ish with the odd clotty bit.
I can't imagine using it vaginally while bleeding! I would be worried that the flow and general yuk would prevent proper absorption since the flow is going the other way.
When I do shorter cycles I do find that I tolerate it less well - as if the physiological changes brought about by the progesterone haven't had time to reverse - and then has even more pronounced side effects.
I agree I also would have though that alternating the doses should work - again there are studies showing that on a medium dose of oestrogen alternate day progesterone at 100 mg is sufficient to protect the uterus when used vaginally (very small study).
It wold be unfortunate if you are one of the exceptions and bleed early.
That being the case I would go back to your doc and ask - for example say you are worried about the heavy bleeding and bleeding before the end and that you are concerned about fibroids. You could say you feel you need a scan to know what to do next. Also although blood tests don't tell you a lot - it might be illuminating in your case - so for example if your oestrogen levels are very high on 50 mcg patch then this could also explain the heavy bleeding - and could indicate you might be OK to reduce the dose a little.
When I reduced my dose to 37.5 mcg at the suggestion of my doc when I had some bleeding/spotting - the flushes came back within weeks but they always disappear on 50 mcg +.
I now ease into my cycle (well I did the last couple of times) so the first and last dose of 200 mg I take over two days so I now do 2 days x 100 mg, 10 days x 200 mg, 2 days x 100 mg. Maybe overkill but at my age it should be silly to get an overthickened lining and potentially endometrial cancer which should be entirely preventable on HRT.
Why not go to the doc anyway, but also try for a slightly longer cycle eg 5 weeks and see what happens to your bleed. I presume you insert the utro at night?
Sorry I can't be of more help - bit of a ramble or thinking aloud....
Hurdity x
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Thank you so much Hurdity for your very informative reply. There's alot to mull over but I am definitely keen on trying a longer cycle rather than reducing my patch strength, as I said earlier my 50 patch has been working fine for me and I definitely feel the Utrogestan has got worse with the side effects the longer I have taken it (over the past year) so you could be right that it is building up in me and not completely clearing out of my system by the time I'm due to start the next course. I still really don't know what to do regarding taking the utro ie: 100 or 200, to ease myself into it like you are doing (100 x 2) or to carry on alternate days of 100, 200, 100 until the end. I will have a think but I may try this with a 5 week gap next month (particularly as February is a very short month as I start my utro on the 1st of each month) before going to my GP. I will see what the bleed is like on this slightly longer cycle & see if I can make it to the end of the utro course , though I'll have to mull over what way to take it :-\.....such alot to process...this whole thing gets a bit wearing doesn't it :( Oh and yes I insert the utro at night, last thing before bed! Thank you once again, you a such a great help and full of knowledge :-*
I just thought it maybe worth mentioning that I have bled during the early weeks in all of my pregnancies (and I have six children) so it could be that I am ultra sensitive to hormones perhaps?? No one knew what caused the bleeding during the pregnancies, I never got any explanation, I guess no one knew in those days. Would this be a possibility do you think as to why I bleed on utro? I also had breakthrough bleeding on the synthetic conti patches that I tried at the start of my HRT journey and this went on for weeks.
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This trial and error is exhausting GL, I get that! I am on Estradot 50 mcg patch and continuous vaginal progesterone on alternative days. I am 2 years post menopausal and have no spotting or bleeding. My scan in Dec showed multiple fibroids (always had them) with a thin 3mm lining. I recently tried to increase my progesterone by taking the same dose (100mg) every night ORALLY as I wanted to increase my Estrogen . THe result was horrible stomach cramps and irritability with crying for stupid stuff like using the last tissue in the box. ::) So I have now decided to cope with the odd breakthrough hot flush and stay on the 50mcg patch. Will this be a regime to try with a regular annual scan?
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I'm using Estrogel daily and taking 200mg of utrogestan for 12 days a month. However it's now been about a year since my last period, suggesting I am now post menopausal.
Should i now be altering the way I take it does anyone know?
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Thank you so much Hurdity for your very informative reply. There's alot to mull over but I am definitely keen on trying a longer cycle rather than reducing my patch strength, as I said earlier my 50 patch has been working fine for me and I definitely feel the Utrogestan has got worse with the side effects the longer I have taken it (over the past year) so you could be right that it is building up in me and not completely clearing out of my system by the time I'm due to start the next course. I still really don't know what to do regarding taking the utro ie: 100 or 200, to ease myself into it like you are doing (100 x 2) or to carry on alternate days of 100, 200, 100 until the end. I will have a think but I may try this with a 5 week gap next month (particularly as February is a very short month as I start my utro on the 1st of each month) before going to my GP. I will see what the bleed is like on this slightly longer cycle & see if I can make it to the end of the utro course , though I'll have to mull over what way to take it :-\.....such alot to process...this whole thing gets a bit wearing doesn't it :( Oh and yes I insert the utro at night, last thing before bed! Thank you once again, you a such a great help and full of knowledge :-*
I just thought it maybe worth mentioning that I have bled during the early weeks in all of my pregnancies (and I have six children) so it could be that I am ultra sensitive to hormones perhaps?? No one knew what caused the bleeding during the pregnancies, I never got any explanation, I guess no one knew in those days. Would this be a possibility do you think as to why I bleed on utro? I also had breakthrough bleeding on the synthetic conti patches that I tried at the start of my HRT journey and this went on for weeks.
I don't know the reason for bleeding in early pregnancy - I think it's something to do with lack of progesterone which is why women susceptible to miscarriage are given large doses of prog early on to maintain the pregnancy?
Re what to do next - you can only try and see ie stretch the cycle or ease into the progesterone but be sure to keep in regular contact with your doc too if you find a way that suits you. Mine is a non-conventional regime but my GP is happy with it.
Yes it does get wearing - even now after 10 years!
Hurdity x
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I'm using Estrogel daily and taking 200mg of utrogestan for 12 days a month. However it's now been about a year since my last period, suggesting I am now post menopausal.
Should i now be altering the way I take it does anyone know?
If you are not bleeding at all on this regime then it does suggest you could be post-menopausal or nearly so. Do you take it vaginally or orally?
The same thing happened to me about 5 years after starting cyclical HRT. I was in my late 50's and not getting a bleed with 11 days of Cyclogest (Utrogestan was new and GP had not come across it), so my GP suggested I went onto conti HRT and reduced my oestrogen. I tried this but the flushes returned after a while so i went back up to 50 mcg but did not want to increase the progesterone dose so instead I lengthened my cycle (with her approval).
Depending on how you feel on the utrogestan phase - this could be a possibility for you eg stretch to 5 weeks rather than 4 and see if this still prevents a bleed.
Also - do you feel the estrogel dose is sufficient? If not the other alternative is to increase the dose of this and keep to the 4 weeks cycle. Personally I would choose the former if the oestrogen dose is OK though.
If this works OK then you should inform your GP that this is what you are doing and why so that they can record on your notes!
Hurdity x
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Thanks for the replies.
Stella Jane - I did have periods when I first started this regime of Estrogel and Utrogestan but it has been a year (using it in same way) since I've had a bleed.
Hurdity I take it orally. Yes, I do feel the estrogel dose is sufficient. It keeps the flushing at bay and has minimized (but not eradicated) the night sweats
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Then maybe either stretch the cycle to 5 weeks or take a slightly shorter course eg 10 or 11 days. However if you are happy with it as it is and feel fine on the utrogestan then stay as you are? if your lining was thickening then you would get some bleeding if the utrogestan was being absorbed.
Hurdity x
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Am I the only one that gets very shaky and feels wired up when on the Utrogestan, it seems to make most people drowzy but has the opposite effect with me, insomnia and feeling like a caffeine overload really looking forward to the end of this cycle....need to sleep.... >:(
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No - I just feel tired and foggy headed - never wired at all - progesterone is a sedative!! Can't explain why it has the opposite effect!
Hurdity x
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If you google side effects of progesterone, shakiness, feeling of weakness, anxiety are some of them, I remember when my friend had to have progesterone injections in order to prolong her pregnancy she shook terribly so it def is the progesterone, not pleasant at all, fortunately only another 4 days to go...
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Morning Ladies
I have now been on Oestrogel 2 pumps and Utrogestan 200mg for 12 days a month now for a year and felt great.... but, the last 2 cycles I have started bleeding as soon as I take the Utrogestan and lasts all the time on the Utrogestan and at least a week after. About a 3 week bleed. Nothing heavy just normal or spotting.
Does anyone have any ideas while this would start doing it after a year of working great with the period appearing for just 4 days after the utrogestan?
Xx
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The Utrogestan is the correct prescribed dosage for using it cyclically, I know many people start bleeding whilst on it, I think it has something to do with absorption, 3 weeks does seem a bit accessive, when last did you have a scan to check the thickness of your uterine lining, it may help to drop down to 100mg used for 12 to 14 days per mth and see if this lightens the bleed, but you would need to follow up with a scan at least annually as it is not the licenced dosage but many people, including myself use it this way.
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I've just had a review with the GP and she's suggested the Utrogestran not being enough to balance everything so wants me to try using 100mg days 1 to 26 of my next cycle.
I've never had a scan to see the thickness though.
It kind of makes sense what she says so I will try it x
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But then surely you should use the 100mg if using it daily... :-\ else you may be getting in too much progesterone, which can also have its own side effects.
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I was a little worried as I'm still perimenopuase to change onto continuos but apparently it's ok as long as you've been a year on sequential so let's hope so.
Thanks ladies
Xx
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'Im sure this has been asked before but if a "period" arrives before the full 12 days of Utrogestan has been taken is there any need to take all 12? I've taken 6 and my period has started already.
Any advice please?
jg
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This is a tricky one - if your period arrives because you have ovulated - then maybe you have enough progesterone to deal with the lining. However the amount of progesterone given in addition (as part of hRT) is supposed to balance the oestrogen (taken as HRT) taken in order to thin the lining. I am not clear what happens to the lining - as it is coming away - ie is it building up underneath from additional oestrogen or does this not occur until after it has shed. Can't seem to find definitive answer on this in relation to HRT (ie at structural level)? By continuing with the progesterone for the allotted time I would suggest you will help to prevent excess build-up.
If you are post-menopausal or nearly so I would say definitely continue with the whole course - but if the bleed comes very early and your cycle is still strong you might want to try to reset your cycle to coincide with the progesterone and leave it at 6 for one cycle. On the other hand early bleeding could indicate that the lining is thickened and very ready to come away - sensitive to slight changes in prog levels and therefore all the more important to take the whole course. It's a minefield isn't it!
Sorry - that probably doesn't help does it?!
Hurdity x
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??? ooh thanks Hurdity. Think I'll just finish the 12 days to be sure. Thanks xx
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'Im sure this has been asked before but if a "period" arrives before the full 12 days of Utrogestan has been taken is there any need to take all 12? I've taken 6 and my period has started already.
Any advice please?
jg
That's exactly was was happening to me for the last couple of cycles and then I started bleeding, just a very light show, after intercourse and now it's been 2 weeks and not stopped yet. I'm even on the progesterone phase of the cycle and still bleeding.
I'm so confused by it all. Is it build up or is my estrogen levels low or are they too high and that makes the progesterone not strong enough or is is vaginal atrophy as I feel so dry below. Or did I mess up my cycle because I cut my progesterone short once because my period arrived. I feel so emotional today I keep crying.
GP has said to finish the 12 days progesterone then a 3 day break and then take the progesterone every day. If no resolution by the end of April when I get back off holiday then she will refer me for a camera. I'm so fed up of it all, I'm due to go away on Holiday for a month in April and I'm so anxious now about the bleeding I'm having panick attacks and worrying I will end up Anemic.
i wish I had a better understanding but the more I read the more confused I get.
Hope you all have a lovely day xx
I've just had a thought, does anyone think using a vaginal lubricant is a good idea for me to try or should I wait till the bleeding is resolved?
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Hi KayJay
Ooer - it really is impossible to say from any individual description what is the cause of abnormal bleeding - it could be any of the things you suggest and more! If you are peri-menopausal and taking HRT then it is even more difficult to say!
Normally any bleeding after sex should be investigated but it sounds like it is ongoing and that your doc is onto it....
One thing though - if you are feeling very dry then you should also be using local oestrogen because systemic HRT is not always sufficient to keep things plumped up in the vaginal area. A vaginal lubricant I think is just for sex whears a moisturiser is to help with dryness in between the days local oestrogen is used. I am not an expert on any of these - KY is as far as I've gone (and local oestrogen). Dancinggirl and Maryjane are the most knowledgeable.
Check out "The Burning Club" thread in Private Lives but definitely go to your doc and get some local oestrogen - the different types are listed here:
https://menopausematters.co.uk/local.php
What dose/type of HRT are you taking?
Re anaemia- taking a herbal iron supplement like Floradix every few days will make sure you keep your iron levels up ( along with a good diet) so you absolutely don't need to be worried on that score! Hopefully this bleeding will have stopped by then - but even if not - don't let it spoil your holiday or if you really are concerned maybe ask your doc for something to delay your period if this is possible while on HRT?
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity for your reply, I find it reassuring to hear.
I'm on Oestrogel 2 pumps and Utrogestran 12/28 swapping to 25/28 after this cycle. 48 and peri for about 3 years.
Can you take local estrogen cream as well as the 2 pumps of Oestrogel? That could be a help because I've started with stress incontinence again even with the HRT.
I have such awful Anxiety I'm worried I'm taking too much already.
Thank you for your support xx
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Yes many of us take local oestrogen as well as systemic HRT - and the NICE Guidelines recognise that this is sometimes necessary. Also says on this site at the link I gave:
VAGINAL TREATMENTS
Local estrogen can be used for vaginal and bladder symptoms, when systemic treatment is not desired or appropriate. For some women, vaginal estrogen may be required along with systemic HRT.
Hurdity x
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It's good to know I can take both.
I'm going to get some of the liquid iron to take on holiday, I think just having it with me will give the reassurance I need.
I'm due to stop taking the 12 days of Utrogestran on Friday so I'm going to wait till after the 3 day break and see if the bleeding stops after the first week of the continuous utrogestran & see my GP again to ask for the local cream as well if not.
Thanks for the suggestions I really appreciate it
Xx
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Yes many of us take local oestrogen as well as systemic HRT - and the NICE Guidelines recognise that this is sometimes necessary. Also says on this site at the link I gave:
VAGINAL TREATMENTS
Local estrogen can be used for vaginal and bladder symptoms, when systemic treatment is not desired or appropriate. For some women, vaginal estrogen may be required along with systemic HRT.
Hurdity x
Hello Hurdity
I hope you don't mind me reaching out directly but your knowledge on this regime encouraged me to persist with my doctor about utrogestan estrogel. I am 53, peri for 5 years and started 100mg utorgestan tablets for 25 days and 2 pumps of estrogel on 26th February this year. My GP was not familiar with it and it took 3 doctors and 2 visits to persuade them to let me have this. They originally recommended a patch and then estrogel with mirena. They didn't tell me how to use it so I take 2 pumps and the tablet at night other than to follow the instructions on the packet. I have had a break through bleed today and not sure if this is because I am taking it incorrectly. I have not had any negative symptoms and the day-time and night-time flushes stopped almost immediately.
Amaliebell
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Hi amaliebell
:welcomemm:
When you say peri for 5 years - how far along the road to menopause are you in terms of periods and cycle length? The thing is if you are still very much peri-menopausal and having periods fairly often ( rather than going 6 months without) then your own cycle will break through. HRT is not usually strong enough to suppress the natural cycle except at very high doses of oestrogen. Your doc has given you the dose for post-menopause ie 25 days pout of 28 - which is more or less continuous but allows the occasional small bleed if necessary.
Also even in post-menopause - because women are so variable in the amount of oestrogen they absorb from a given quantity of gel, some women find that 100 mg daily is insufficient to protect the womb lining and they get irregular spotting and bleeding even with continuous Utrogestan. Dancinggirl was one of these but she's having computer problems at the moment so isn't posting much.
Depending on what you say and where you are in menopause - using Utrogestan cyclically may be a better option - ie from days 15-26 using 200 mg utrogestan and then you would get a withdrawal bleed that hopefully coincided with your period. You would count Day 1 as the first day of your bleed. Perhaps have another word with your doc? It gives the dose here: https://menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php
Pleased to hear your flushes have stopped and you have no side effects from the utrogestan - this is a good sign!
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
I had about 5 periods in 2016 but these were very, very light and lasted no more than a couple of days. My last was December and again this was very light so it could be a another of these very light ones. My GP practice have never prescribed this combination before and in the end just gave me what I asked for. My night flushes had been regular but not particularly annoying until January 2017 at which point they started happening a number of times in one night. My daytime flushes only started in January and I would have 3 or 4 at work. Do you think I should change to the peri-menopause regime?
Best Amaliebell
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Hi amaliebell
As you are not yet post-menopausal then your own hormones are likely to breakthrough if you have a cycle - the dose of HRT is not strong enough to prevent this and the progesterone not strong enough to completely stop bleeding - unlike some of the synthetic progestogens.
Yes I would suggest you go with the sequential regime (200 mg prog days 15-26) - as outlined in the link - which is the recommended regime for peri-menopause.
Let us know how you get on
Hurdity x
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Hi ladies,
Just going to join the thread as started gel yesterday.
I started the menopause at 25 after having endometriosis.
ME and depression came with it.
I was on one HRT for ten years but it was discontinued so spent four years trying to find a suitable one, but of a nightmare as with ME your sensitive to chemicals.
Then I've been on premique the last year and a bit and then this has been discontinued.
So on the gel.
Last time the gel was not helping my night sweats and felt wiped but I'm on a different antidepressant
So I'm hoping it may react different this time.
Anyway just wanted to say where I'm at.
Look forward to reading people's experiences xxx
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Hi amaliebell
As you are not yet post-menopausal then your own hormones are likely to breakthrough if you have a cycle - the dose of HRT is not strong enough to prevent this and the progesterone not strong enough to completely stop bleeding - unlike some of the synthetic progestogens.
Yes I would suggest you go with the sequential regime (200 mg prog days 15-26) - as outlined in the link - which is the recommended regime for peri-menopause.
Let us know how you get on
Hurdity x
Many thanks Hurdity. I am going to stop 100mg at day 25 and then resume with 200mg at day 15. Do I treat day 1 of new 15-26 regime at what would be day 30 on old regime?
Amaliebell x
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Day 29 of old regime ( Utrogestan days 1-25) becomes day 1 of new. Oestrogen only for days 1-14. Add the utro from days 15-26 at 200 mg and bleed should follow either day 28 or day 1, if it's going to come - but maybe it will get a bit out of sync - sometimes it does depending on where you are in meno. Think I've got that approx right! Don't worry for the moment. Just get started and hopefully all will be well :)
Hurdity x
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I've just joined Menopause matters and this is my first post so I hope I'm getting it right!
I'm a 52 year old post menopausal woman. I've been having severe frequent hot flashes, dryness, severe fatigue, agitation, all over pain, insomnia and a host of other lovely symptoms.
I've just started Estrogel, 2 pumps a day, one pump on each thigh. I just wondered if there was an average time for this to start working? I'm on day 11 now and waiting for some relief. Does it take a while for it to kick in?
When my estradiol was last tested in September, it was <37 pmol/L. I'm not sure what it's supposed to be in order to start feeling better.
Also, the estrogel has ethanol in it which smells very alcoholic! Ethanol is made from either corn or wheat, both of which I'm intolerant too. Does anyone know if any of it gets absorbed through the skin?
Thank you.
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Thank you stellajane. I appreciate your reply. I may see if I can find a different topical oestrogen.
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Hi ladies,sorry if this seems a stupid question but I'm a little confused!After much begging and armed with printed articles my GP prescribed evorel 75 and utrogestan 200 vaginally (even though she has never heard of it!)
My question is when I begin to take the utrogestan do I stop taking the evorel (I'll be taking it from 15 to 26)or do I carry on with no breaks?
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Hi, you use Oestrogen all the time, every day and then add in your Progesterone on the specified days, so yes, keep your patch on.:)
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Thanks Liz
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I have been on estrogel/utrogestan for a couple of years. But something changed. For the past four months i haven't had a bleed, while before i had some light bleeding for a couple of days. I am on one pump of Estrogel a day and take Utrogestan 100 mg. vaginally for 7 days every month. I noticed that Utrogestan is now causing insomnia, which is also strange as it had a different effect before. Estrogel is enough to keep menopausal symptoms at bay, except for the occasional hot flush which doesn't bother me. This month i feel very premenstrual, but still no bleeding. What could be the cause?
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Hi Stella Jane, I am post-menopausal.I also thought about lengthening the Utrogestan phase to see if it makes any difference. What holds me back is my sensitivity to progesterone. I absolutely hate it. It messes up my life big time. Insomnia, worse hot flushes, moodiness, serious constipation, slow digestion, i feel bloated and sluggish...but i guess i should give it a try next month and see if it causes a bleed. Another option is increasing the amount of estrogen, maybe my body needs more now. My uterine lining is within the safe limit.
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Hello - i am very new here and hoping this discussion is still ongoing. I am currently on Utrogestan 100mg (taking V route) for 10/14 days in cycle and 1.5 to 2 pumps of estrogel every day.
My last bleed was in january for about 4 days (thats nearly 4 months ago). have been sticking to the cycle and even tried utrogestan orally 4 weeks ago (that was horrible as it affected me badly) but no bleed as yet.
Now i am getting worried - i stopped my last Utrogestan 13 days ago and have had some light spotting since then but nothing major and for the last few days have been getting cramps. I feel like i am going to have a period but nothing happens, on a Keto diet but not losing any weight at all = it seems like my body is holding onto the water / fat. I also feel bloated a lot. I have lots of energy though and mentally feel quite normal.
Anyone have any advice for me - i have actually just booked a private ultrasound scan and CA125 blood test for monday!.
thanks for your help DD
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Hi :welcomemm:
Not everyone gets a withdrawal bleed whilst on hrt,I didn't always. ::)
Utrogeston isn't as powerful as synthetic progesterones,say northisterone for example, I wouldn't worry . If there was any excess lining I'm sure it would have shed. You are also on a relatively low amount of oestrogen this maybe why. As you already have a scan booked you will soon know about the thickness. It's more usual to be concerned about unscheduled/unexpected bleeding.
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Hi Darcy
:welcomemm: from me too.
I agree with dazned - looks like the utrogestan is doing its job in keeping your lining thin. Vaginal utrogestan is more effective at the same dose than when taken orally as it gets to the uterus where it is needed. Perhaps you could tell us how old you are and where in menopause you were when you started this regime - what was your cycle doing before starting etc? If you had been using a Mirena for example your lining would very thin already so nothing will have built up during gaps between periods for example. Some women get very heavy bleeding when they start HRT for this reason - after several months of anovulatory cycles without bleeding.
Do let us know about the scan anyway and the results of your tests.
Hurdity x
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Hello thanks for the welcomes - its really nice to find people going through the same thing - everyone i know doesn't seem to have any problems going through menopause. Hurdity I am 51 years old, been taking natpro natural progesterone cream since i was 42 which helped to curb my PMT. I started to notice menopause symptoms early 2015 - with mainly brain fog / tiredness / not wanting to do anything / then feeling hot at night / Weak bladder / missing periods etc - i started reading loads of books on the subject (Suzanne Somers was one!) and in May i decided to try Testogel (bought on ebay!!!) I had a tiny bit and it made so much difference right away i was almost back to myself. After a few months i realised Testogel wasnt the answer - so i found out about Estrogel and got my doctor to prescribe it around December 2015 I turned 50 Nov 2015. Been on Estrogel and Utrogestan since then - usually having periods as normal (lighter than they used to be before the HRT). Have been feeling great on it but always find the utrogestan makes me feel a bit rubbish after a few days then i seem to get used to it - One other thing i had / have a prolapsed bladder which i had since the birth of my second child 15 years ago - it got really bad before i started the Estrogel - its fine now but if i reduce the dose even for a day it comes back. Wasnt on birth control pills or mirena coil for at least 20 years - always had a 28 day cycle. Will keep you updated - re: tests - also going to have a DUTCH (dried urine) hormone test to see what my levels and metabolites are like. Thanks for your help DD x
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Hi- I'm new on here and have been desperately reading all and any posts that might offer me some insight into what I should do to feel better. I'm 55 , most probably post meno , and had been on cyclo-progenova for some 5 years ( 2 mg) I wanted to go bio-identical and try to reduce the estrogen as I was worried about the risks.....so I recently changed to estradot 75 with utrogestan 200 for 12-14 days of a monthly cycle. The first month went ok, had a few vivid dreams on the progesterone part and felt terribly premenstrual before having a bleed which was lighter than it had been on the previous HRT. I then decided I would try a longer cycle like I've read some of you on here are on- so I went for 28
days on the estrogen and then started the progesterone ( two 100 mg pills vaginally) I thought, for 12 days. After the first seven days I suffered the most horrendous migraines and a really disabling " spinning " kind of dizziness which for one whole day just left me bed- ridden and with a pounding headache ( I've had this kind of episode three times in the last year and wondered if it was something to do with the progesterone part of the cycle) . I felt so unwell I just stopped the progesterone and its taken two days for me to feel normal- ish again. I don't feel I can cope with this another month and I don't really want a bleed every month either........I would be so appreciative if any of you can offer me some advice as I feel so unhappy about feeling this unwell.
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Well i got my Scan today and it was fine - only a small fibroid 26mm in the womb, thickness of the lining 3.9mm.
However i found out a few days earlier about DIM which reduces the 16H and 4H levels of Estrogen Metabolites and increases the 2Hydroxy (the good one!). I have been taking it 3 days and feel so much better already - I did have a metabolites test done in Jan and my 16Hydroxyestrone was 14.6 in the red! I am hoping this will take it right down for my next test.
I have decided to go 3 months with just estrogel then use the utrogestan for 14 days to see if that might agree with me better.
Thanks for your help DD
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Hi Darcy
Glad your scan was OK. However re the DIM I have no idea what you are talking about and the metabolites!!! Are you in UK - this doesn;t sound like anything that's done here or that is ever measured? Haven't come across it before. Please can you explain and pref with link to something if you can, so I can read and digest slowly!
Hope the long cycle works for you and do let us know how you get on. Has anything been suggested about your fibroid as that isn't exactly tiny? The longer oestrogen cycle may make it grow ( I did have a tiny one 8 mm that didn't grow with oestrogen).
Hurdity x
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Hi- I'm new on here and have been desperately reading all and any posts that might offer me some insight into what I should do to feel better. I'm 55 , most probably post meno , and had been on cyclo-progenova for some 5 years ( 2 mg) I wanted to go bio-identical and try to reduce the estrogen as I was worried about the risks.....so I recently changed to estradot 75 with utrogestan 200 for 12-14 days of a monthly cycle. The first month went ok, had a few vivid dreams on the progesterone part and felt terribly premenstrual before having a bleed which was lighter than it had been on the previous HRT. I then decided I would try a longer cycle like I've read some of you on here are on- so I went for 28
days on the estrogen and then started the progesterone ( two 100 mg pills vaginally) I thought, for 12 days. After the first seven days I suffered the most horrendous migraines and a really disabling " spinning " kind of dizziness which for one whole day just left me bed- ridden and with a pounding headache ( I've had this kind of episode three times in the last year and wondered if it was something to do with the progesterone part of the cycle) . I felt so unwell I just stopped the progesterone and its taken two days for me to feel normal- ish again. I don't feel I can cope with this another month and I don't really want a bleed every month either........I would be so appreciative if any of you can offer me some advice as I feel so unhappy about feeling this unwell.
Hi amy1235
So sorry your post got missed - sometimes this can happen which is why it's best for newbies to start a new thread in the new members section and then you can be properly welcomed.
Anyway - your experience is not unusual - some progesterone sensitive women do react in this way unfortunately. I used to get migraines during the prog withdrawal phase (ie after stopping the progesterone) but also sometimes while taking it (and especially if I had alcohol). I don't seem to get them much now - at least not from the prog anyway. How horrible for you to have such an extreme reaction that you had to stay in bed.
Did you go and see the doc just to see if there is any other explanation?
What I do to limit the systemic absorption from vaginal utrogestan is:
For the week leading up to starting the cycle I use 1 vagifem per night rather than twice a week - to plump up the tissues (this is my own pet theory that this will help limit systemic absorption of progesterone as it does for oestrogen - not sure if there is any info on this anywhere!).
I work out how much I need to take - in my case it's from 6 weeks to 2 months approx cycle - so I always take 12 x 200 mg to ensure the lining will be shed.
Then I ease myself into it gently - so the first and last two days I just take 1 x 100 mg. OK this gives 2 extra days to the cycle but it means there is not quite such a hit and also coming off it is not so extreme either.
This may not work for you - but for me it minimises the worst of it.
It is very important to take the progesterone - to protect the womb lining, so is it possible for you to ask for referral to a menopause specialist so that you can perhaps reduce the number of days you take it? This should be done under medical supervision since there is greater risk of endometrial hyperplasia and potentially cancer with lower progesterone doses but provided you are monitored and OK'ed by a gynae this may well improve things. In cases such as yours it appears the gynaes prefer to keep the same length cycle ( ie 28 days) but reduce the time and dose on prog - since the higher doses and longer time of taking it needed for a longer cycle would be too unpleasant and often debilitating.
Also it might be possible to (very) gradually reduce your oestrogen dose eg to 62.5 (cut a bit off) just so that you can take a teeny bit less progesterone - and maybe even eventually to 50 mcg if you feel OK on this - perhaps better this than having to take so much prog?
Some women find the synthetic progestogen Provera is better tolerated so maybe try this one?
Sorry I can't help any more and I do hope you manage to see this - good luck and let us know what you decide.
Hurdity x
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Hi there Hurdity
Thank you so much for your response. I figured I would have to try and slowly cut down on the estrogen to reduce the progesterone part of the cycle ......I will try your idea of 100mg for the first and last two days perhaps and see how I feel. I've asked my GP to change my patch to 50 mg but I've still got some 75 mg patches which I'll snip small strips off first. Dr Studd mentions using utrogestan (200mg?) for the first seven days of the cycle for progesterone sensitive women but there's no mention of what doseage of estrogen this is matched upto...does anyone know anything about this? Also you mention using vagifem- is this as well as patches? Thank you so much for this forum.
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I think Dr Studd prescribes 100mg for 7 days for sensitive ladies.
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Hi all,
Although I've posted elsewhere, and people like the lovely Hurdity have been helpful, I'm interested to know generally how people have got on with utrogestan? (This is a massive thread and although I've been through it, I keep getting diverted from this question!)
Thinking of changing from the mirena. Reasons? A lot of bleeding (which, actually, has stopped in last week), a flatness? A such tiredness. Wondered if the tired morning side effect with utrogestan was very prevalent with lots of women?
Thanks all.
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Hi there Hurdity
Thank you so much for your response. I figured I would have to try and slowly cut down on the estrogen to reduce the progesterone part of the cycle ......I will try your idea of 100mg for the first and last two days perhaps and see how I feel. I've asked my GP to change my patch to 50 mg but I've still got some 75 mg patches which I'll snip small strips off first. Dr Studd mentions using utrogestan (200mg?) for the first seven days of the cycle for progesterone sensitive women but there's no mention of what doseage of estrogen this is matched upto...does anyone know anything about this? Also you mention using vagifem- is this as well as patches? Thank you so much for this forum.
Hi again amy1235
As Cassie says Studd's prescription for severely progesterone intolerant women is 7 days x 100 mg which is way lower than the prescribed dose of 200 mg x 12 days. I suggest you would not be wise to follow this minimal prog regime without medical supervision due to increased risk of endometrial hyperplasia on this dose, although vaginal delivery gets more the the uterus where it is needed (did I say that before?). And yes you are right in that this is a blanket one size fits all Utro dose for all oestrogen doses. Since Studd often prescribes high doses of oestrogen, it could be a risk in some women.
Also if you are using the utro vaginally and doing it monthly then you could probably get away with halving that for the 12 days - but again you would need to check after several cycles how your lining responds, and get your doc on board so that you might be able to have scans on NHS ( unlikely unless your prog intolerance is severe and well established ie on your records maybe?).
Hurdity x
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amy1235, sorry to hear about the problems you are having with Utrogestan but I'm not surprised, I would not function at all on that high dose. My advice would be to reduce the dose and go on from there. You might find you manage well by just halving it.
I am severely intolerant to progesterone and can only take a very low dose under supervision because I can't even manage 7 days now. Taking it for a long period of time is completely out of the question for me because it stays in my system for a long time after the final dose.
The standard Utrogestan (and synthetic progesterone) dose is debated on here a lot and my personal view is that the NHS guidelines need to be reviewed because too many women are taking too much and suffering horrendous side effects unnecessarily. I think they work on a worst case scenario and then add to it.
Quite a few of us are Professor Studd patients and his standard prescription for women who don't tolerate progesterone well is 100mg (preferably vaginally because it works better at clearance and thinning) for 7 days per month. I have never come across anyone who has followed his prescription and ended up with serious problems (does anyone else?) and he does not make regular scans a condition of using this regime. That said, it is sensible to have regular scans because it is not just womb lining that needs checking.
You may find this interesting:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,35762.0.html
My advice to anyone reading this who has problems with Utrogestan or any other form of progesterone is the reduce the dose and have regular scans - it is better than giving up on HRT altogether. That way, you can gauge how much progesterone you need, it is pointless to take too much progesterone for years on end and it is worth bearing in mind that all the risks associated with HRT are in the progesterone component. So don't guess how much you need, find out. One size does not fit all and of course you might be unlucky and need more progesterone. You might have to pay for a private scan but it will be money well spent.
If anyone is in that much doubt about Professor Studd's regime, they should write to him with their concerns and ask him to explain his regime in more detail.
Those who tolerate progesterone well can disregard this post.
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Just to confirm, while Professor Studd is very experienced and extremely knowledgeable, his regimens are not always in line with current recommendations, particularly around use of progesterone.
As always with providing menopause advice, this should be individualised and flexibility should be applied, as long as there is a clear understanding of national and international recommendations. Some women are intolerant of progestogen and progesterone and so it is appropriate to adjust the regimens, as long as it has been fully explained and discussed.
Best wishes
Heather
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The specialist has recommened this combination for me and my GP has said he doesn't prescribe it. Has anyone else had this happen?
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You have a right to be prescribed the HRT combination that you wish - after all these are licensed products available on NHS. Surely if your specialist has prescribed them then your GP should oblige? I would press him further on this. Which particular product does he not prescribe? Is this code for - he has not prescribed them because he hasn't heard of them and doesn't know enough about menopause and HRT preparations? If so shame on him for not admitting this. He would do well to consult his compendium - or this website for licensed preparations. Is there a cost implication - is the GP practice instructed first to try to prescribe the cheapest option? This still should allow for patient choice if you do not want this option.
Utrogestan (micronised progesterone) is the only biologically identical ( to our own hormone) progesterone available on NHS to be used as part of HRT - so if you wish only to use biologically identical products then he has no reason to refuse. Re the oestrogen - is it gel he is unfamiliar with? You can argue that transdermal oestrogen has been shown to be associated with less risk for a variety of health conditions than taking tablet oestrogen, and avoids the liver - and certainly when I started HRT my GP respected that I wanted to be "nil-by-mouth" from the start. Having established you wish to use transdermal HRT - then you need to argue that you prefer to try gel to patches - I'm sure you can think of a reason - not least that your specialist has recommended it.
Please go back to this doc or a different one in the practice, having done your homework and rehearsed your arguments and be prepared to stand your ground!
Good luck and let us know how you get on :)
Hurdity x
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I'm about to start this when I come back from my hols. The oestrogel says use as directions so I'm unsure how much to use. I'm guessing 3 pumps to match 2mg in Qlaira. The Utrogestan says take days 1-25.
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Hi, following all the shared experience and welcome advice and visits to the GP, I am on my second month of utrogeston day 15-26 100mg ( x2 ) and 1mg Sandrena Gel daily. I am really struggling with fatiuge, sleepiness on urtogeston phase and finding it difficult to function. I would like to try taking it vaginally to see if side effetcs are less, I have read quite a lot of the threads, and would just like to confirm that its ok to use Utrogestan 100mg prescribed for oral use, vaginally ? I am peri meno. On the plus side the pmt type anxiety is less on Utro than was on Femseven sequi 50 mg patches. Thanks :) and advice very welcome... sorry for any typos but so tired.
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Hi yes you can use it vaginally , mayake your bladder go 😳 But you won't no till you try.
I can only tolerate 100mg of utrogestin over 10 days.
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I have never taken Utrogestan orally for this reason - it makes me tired enough when used vaginally but I imagine it would be far worse if taken orally! The licensed dose is 200 mg for 12 days but there is some research which shows that 100 mg for a similar length of time is sufficient in some women if used vaginally - however you would need to check this with your doc to ensure it is doing its job in protecting the endometrium. As you are on a fairly low dose of oestrogen gel then it may well do the job.
Where are you in menopause and what have your cycles been doing?
Hurdity x
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Thanks, I am gonna try and see how I get on :) fingers crossed :)
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Hi,
I've just started this combination and just want a little advice. I've had some side effects that are the same as I had with Qlaira, which went away with Femodene. My GP prescribed Utrogestan 100mg 25 days out of 28 and oestrogel use as required. I struggled to get him to prescribe it, so I'm hoping it will work and I'm not back with my tail between my legs. I went with two pumps as that seemed average and I was starting from Femodene pill. My face started to burn the same as it did with Qlaira and I got a slight rash. I also felt dizzy and spaced out like I'm drunk. These symptoms went away after about 12 or 13 hours and I feel normal again. Does everyone take Utrogestan at night? I've taken it in the morning which may be the problem. I also think I will split the Utrogestan one pump am and one pm. I also started bleeding on the first day I started this combo. I bled with Qlaira, but it stopped as soon as I went into Femodene. Would it just be the change or hormones? Or could it be this combo doesn't agree with me? It also making me a bit spotty. Is it likely to settle down?
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Thank you Stella Jane. I'm not sure I should be on continuous HRT, but I didn't mention it to my GP as I thought it may be better to keep it even like the Femodene birth control pill. I didn't take the Utrogestan this morning and will try taking it tonight. I will see how it goes. So far, it's been nothing but side effect that started two hours after taking this combo. I'm not sure on the redness Stellajane. I've was thinking it's a reaction, but now I'm wondering if it's related to the hormone the balance not being quite right. I didn't have anything like this with Femodene or Cilest, but I did with Qlaira and Yasmin. The spotting for me in the past has seemed to coincide with the burning face. I have a ball of phlegm in my throat and diarrhoea too. Both of these came when I started the HRT and I'm sure they're connected, but can't be 100%. I'm wondering if using it vaginally would be better. Is it the same ones and do they disolve ok?
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Stellajane the specialist is private. My GP grumbled about the gel the specialist recommended and said he didn't know anything about it and only prescribes a couple of HRT's. Eventually he gave me 1 bottle. I'm thinking the specialist seems to recommend this combo to everyone. The other option he gave me was the mirena, which is levenorgestral that I haven't loved in the past and isn't good for hair. I've also read that it doesn't stay systemic like they say it does. At this point I think I might be back to the GP with my tail between my legs begging to go back on Femodene. I'm getting a bit old for it though.
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Sorry ladies, another side effect 🙄 About an hour after I've applied the gel my arms and hands are freezing. Right to the bones. It's like all the fat has gone in my fingers. I've also gone so dry down below. I'm not sure if that's because of the bleeding. Has anyone had all these symptoms and do they settle? I'd no problems like this with the femodene pill
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Hi I have been on gel and Utrogestan for years, its great. I would apply the gel to your legs alternating, legs, I always do this and it dries very quickly, I rub it in when I am in bed at night and then I use one utrogestan pill vaginally, its much better for me using it this way and I use it for 12 days per mth so that I get a cyclically bleed, you could perhaps explore using it like this if you find continuously does not work for you. Everyone is different but I love the gel and have never had any side effects at all it works really well, give it some time to settle as well.
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Thank you Cassie. The Utrogestan wasn't as bad taking it at night, but I didn't sleep well and then couldn't get up, so I'm a bit tired and snappy. I started bleeding like a period as soon as I started this combo and everything seemed to dry up. I'm going to give it a little time and hope everything sorts itself out. I think at the moment I'm comparing it to Femodene.
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The same capsule can be used vaginally (off licence for HRT) or orally - you just poke it up at night. However not many women want to do this on a continuous basis. Also you have been told to take it 254 days out of 28 so even though this is intended for post-menopausal women, the 3 days break (from the utro) will allow a bleed if one is to happen. In your case if you are peri-menopausal then this is very likely. The only thing is that 100 mg for 25 days may not be sufficient to prevent breakthrough bleeding at other points during the month, and especially when taken orally as much is lost in digestion. The metabolic by-products of utrogestan tend to cause more side effects when taken orally because of having to go through the liver.
Estrogel ( the oestrogen) can potentially transfer to partner so no skin to skin contact should occur for one hour after application, according to the instructions - so this might affect when you apply it and where on your body.
Hurdity x
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Hurdity thank you. You've so much knowledge. I'm day 3 now and it's just like I have a period. I'm not sure if I'm peri or post as I've taken the pill. I've just turned 50. Maybe I should email the specialist to see what he thinks. In an ideal world I could take the Utrogestan earlier to stop being tired in the morning as I work and need to eat in the evening 😊
Do you know if the gel takes a while to get going? Within a day of switching it seemed like everything shrivelled, dried and deflated. Even my lips and I've more dental plaque and phlegm.
Is it normal that the area the gel goes on and my hands turn icy cold to the bone about an hour after applying the gel? My fingers go like skin and bone. It goes after a couple of hours but it's so unpleasant.
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I did of course mean 25 days not 254!!!
Sorry I can't help with the gel - as I've never used oestrogen gel, only testosterone - but hopefully someone else can answer that. Yes sometimes progesterone does cause pms symptoms but hopefully these will settle? This is why some of us prefer a cycle so that we only have to take it intermittently rather than all the time despite being older (!) ie in our 60's
It certainly shouldn't dry everything up - if you mean your genital area - it should have the opposite effect - but not immediately. Perhaps the sensation is due to the evaporation of the alcohol in the gel cooling your skin?
Hurdity x
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I never thought of the alcohol Hurdity. I noticed there was a lot in there. It's a chill to the bones.
Yes, I mean my genital area, my eyes, and my skin and my hair. All dried. I've noticed my lips and vagina lips both seem to have deflated. My eyes and skin feel a bit better today. I started on two pumps, but upped to three. I wondered if there was a drop in estrogen from Femodene, which I guess may possibly have more as its a pill.
I've just tried the ultrogestan vaginally I thought no harm in trying as I was feeling a bit weepy and was tempted to 'just go back on Femodene'
What do you use for the Estrogen? Do you find the testosterone helps? I read a German study today where Dhea was recommended along with estrogen/progesterone.
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On average how many pumps does everyone use and how long did it take to start working?
Thank you ladies. I'm struggling with this combo and trying to decide whether to give it a bit longer or go up a pump and see
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Katia - I use patches - not the subject of this thread though! Yes testosterone has helped - there are lots of threads on this - in this section and I have a long running one in the Private Lives section you might like to have a look at.
Hopefully some gel users will be along to tell you about their use. 2 pumps is the standard starting dose - but women vary enormously in how much oestrogen they absorb from a given dose.
if you are suffering from vaginal dryness this might be helped by the systemic oestrogen in the HRT (gel) but you might also want to think about vaginal oestrogen to target tissues in that area specifically?
Hurdity x
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I used 2 pumps until about 2 yrs ago have never had any symptoms on 2 so went down to 1 and still feeling great on 1 with 100mg x 12 days
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Thanks Hurdity. I think I'm suffering from everything with it at the moment. I upped to three pumps. A bit better, but still had symptoms so I wondered about four. I'm thinking some of the problem may be the change from pFemodene and the drop in estrogen. I'm also wondering how long it stays in the system. At the moment I feel like it's gone in about 10 hours. Thanks for the testosterone info. I'll give it a read.
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I have fair thin skin too. I was still getting symptoms with two pumps. I'm also finding it seems to be not staying in my system very long, but it's early days and I probably need to build a bit up. I'm eating more with it and feeling a bit snappy
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Hi Katia
I answered on your other thread too - forgot you were the same person :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity, I thiught I'd ask on another thread to get opinions from people who tried this combo but changed to something else.
Yesterday I woke quite good, today,headachy, it's 10am and can't drag myself out of bed and meh. I'm not sure if it's this combo, or my own hormones
Is the gel time released or do you get the dose all in one go? I just don't feel level at all.
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Stella Jane I've decided to stick to 3 pumps and see how it goes. I have a feeling it may not be right for me. I had high hopes for the hrt to be superior to the pill but I've had one decent day in a week and have a stinking headache and feel drunk again today. I trying to give it another week. It's so hard not to just throw in the towel on it and go back to femodene, to sort everything out. But then this will have to start again.
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Femodene contains one of the strong synthetic oestrogens so not really comparable with HRT. Give it a bit longer Katia!
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity. I skipped the Utrogestan last night to see if it would help with the debilitating headache and it hasn't. I still feel the same today. I'm using 3 pumps, two at night and one in the morning. The night sweats and hot flushes I can deal with, but the headache, sickness and feeling terrible not so much. I've had a few good hours since going on to HRT. I feel the gel isn't going to be consistently level enough for me. My libido has gone and down below has just dried.
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I dont think you should blame all your symptoms on the gel, its wonderful stuff and seems to work really well for the majority of ladies, of course, there will always be exceptions, perhaps stick it out for at least a month or 2 and see if you settle, it is by far one of the safer hrts, transdermal is considered a far friendlier way of delivering hormones into the system.
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I'm wondering if a lot of my symptoms may be estrogen withdrawal. As Hurdity said Femodene is synthetic and is a pill so will be more potent. Although I thought the pill was higher in progesterone.
Hurdity - do you think it is estrogen withdrawal? If so do you think I should up to 4 pumps for now?
How long does estrogen withdrawal last? At the minute, I don't know if I'm having too little or too much.
For the Utrogestan, I'm thinking of going the vaginal route. Even thought it seems to have the same side effects as oral I'm thinking I won't need the two hours after food so I can take it earlier and won't feel as groggy the following morning. Am I right, or will the two hour still apply?
The headache seems to have lifted a bit now. xx
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I'm a newbie to Oestrogel and 2 weeks into using 2 pumps , I use alternate thighs for testosterone gel and the same for the 2 pumps oestrogel . My question is 2 pumps is smothering my thigh, so am I right in smearing it on and leave it to soak in or am I meant to be rubbing it in ?
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Annie, I think you leave it to soak in. I'm new to it too. I'm starting to think it's better absorbed (for me) through the thighs.
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Cool thanks. It does seem pretty good at soaking in, god knows where I'd put a third pump if I need to increase !
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It's not really designed to be rubbed in as such (in contrast to creams) although I know some women do so. The oestrogen is contained within the gel which consists of various compounds including alcohol. As I understand it the estradiol is absorbed through the skin while it is still wet and until all the alcohol has evaporated. The dosage, absorption and resultant serum concentrations of estradiol are based ( presumably) on women applying it consistently by spreading it. I have heard that some consultants advocate rubbing it onto the skin but I don't know how this would affect absorption except perhaps by stimulating the blood supply close to the skin maybe and facilitating the diffusion process ( thinking aloud here!). Judging by testosterone gel - if it is anything like this I could envisage rubbing could be quite messy and result in loss of some gel on fingers/hands?
"The application of a hydro-alcoholic
gel containing estradiol results in a rapid
penetration of the estrogens into the stratum
corneum; this stops after drying of the gel on the
skin. As the absorption is proportional to the
surface of application, deviations from the instructions
may cause variations in the estrogen
level and clinical efficacy. About 10% of the dose
is absorbed by the skin during the 2 min until
drying. The estradiol is stored in the stratum
corneum and permeates through the epidermis
into the dermal capillaries according to the
concentration gradient between the stratum corneum
and blood. This diffusion lasts for 2–14 h.
The two available gel preparations differ in their
concentration and mode of application."
From Kuhl 2005 paper on oestrogens and progestogens.
Hurdity x
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I'm wondering if a lot of my symptoms may be estrogen withdrawal. As Hurdity said Femodene is synthetic and is a pill so will be more potent. Although I thought the pill was higher in progesterone.
Hurdity - do you think it is estrogen withdrawal? If so do you think I should up to 4 pumps for now?
How long does estrogen withdrawal last? At the minute, I don't know if I'm having too little or too much.
For the Utrogestan, I'm thinking of going the vaginal route. Even thought it seems to have the same side effects as oral I'm thinking I won't need the two hours after food so I can take it earlier and won't feel as groggy the following morning. Am I right, or will the two hour still apply?
The headache seems to have lifted a bit now. xx
Katia - no-one can say why you are feeling as you do - except that it is sure to be something to do with hormonal increase or decrease!!! Reduction in oestrogen is thought to be the cause of hot flushes and sweats and in some women this persists for years even in the absence of any further decline in oestrogen. However with changing HRT type - hopefully your body will adjust to the different way of getting oestrogen.
Re the utrogestan - actually the side effects may well be different when taken by the different routes because the metabolic by-products of utrogestan are different and more numerous when taken orally - and it is these compounds which give rise to some of the depressive side effects. Some women of course also feel the effect of progesterone whichever route as expected and like during the normal menstrual cycle - because it does have a sedative effect and in addition larger doses have to be given to ensure that sufficient gets to the uterus. After all it is not like the ovary pumping out a consistent steady dose into the system. You don't need to worry about food with vaginal application and there is nothing wrong with taking utro with food - it just might give more side effects because there is higher bio-availability with food.
I agree with Cassie - try not to analyse how you are feeling every day, and don't be in too much of a hurry to change your dose etc. Hang in there and give it time! :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity. It's so difficult when last week I felt good andnhad everything going for me and this week I'm falling apart. My gums are bleeding now, which I'm sure is something to do with hormones too and my tongue has a black tinge. These are all so worrying as I've never had anything more than a cold in my life. I've also had indigestion which I've never had before too.
I found the best day with the Utrogestan was when I took it earlier, but I was starving so it wouldn't work on a regular basis to do that. I didn't realise food would increase side effects, I thought it would be the other way around. If I know that this was much lower than Femodene and that these symptoms were low estrogen, I'd up it to four pumps for now and then reduce to 3 in a couple of months. I have an appointment with my GP and I'm back at the consultants in about a month. I'm trying to give it until then. I do feel a bit better today having skipped to Utrogestan last night.
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I can't remember whether you are supposed to be taking it cyclically or not (the utro) ie you are peri-menopausal, and the dose you are taking?
Hurdity x
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The consultant gave me the choice. The GP prescribed 100mg 25 days. The consultant thinks I'm peri. I'm 50, but because I've been on Femodene it's hard to tell. Taking it earlier seems to be the key for me. I don't feel groggy today. I'm sure Femodene would have had a lot more progesterone.
I was awake at 3am with night sweats and burning knees. Because of this, hot flashes and the concern with my gums I'm thinking to up the gel to 4 pumps until it gets going. The strange thing is I never had these symptoms with a few days off Femodene, but they started in day 1 with the gel. Some of them have subsided a bit.
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Ah yes I remember - I think some of us suggested that proper cyclical HRT (shorter duration of Utro) might be more appropriate if you are still peri-menopausal so if you find you are not tolerating it then perhaps try the 200 mg x 12 days. and see what happens. If you use it vaginally then you might be able to get away with the lower dose (100 mg x 12 days) but would need to do this under medical supervision until you know which dose is sufficient to protect your endometrium (or have a private scan - at least after the first year perhaps if not regularly).
Hurdity x
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Hurdity, I was wondering if it was the progesterone that was low as I would be used to more with the pill. I've also just read that we still keep 60% of our estrogen but lose more progesterone.
I added an extra pump this morning, so 2 morning, 2 evening, but my face seems to be burning a bit more than yesterday at the moment. I'll see how today goes. If it wasn't for the dryness and the bleeding gums I'd stick at 3. I feel like I'm fading already and it's only 10am so it's certainly not giving me energ.
I'll give it another week with the utro as it is and see. It seems to be ok if I take it about 6-7pm.
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You shouldn't experience adverse symptoms from lower progestogens (including progesterone)- actually the reverse is more likely. The progesterone withdrawal symptoms that women experience either after stopping progestogens or after reducing considerably - are a temporary phenomenon and the symptoms disappear once progesterone has left the system. We only have high levels of progesterone - in the middle of the second half of the menstrual cycle and during pregnancy, but as far as is known, we can function perfectly well on the low levels in post-menopause ( and during the first part of the menstrual cycle).
Hope you feel better soon :)
Hurdity x
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Hurdity, wouldn't the pill have supplied consistent high progesterone levels? I was also reading that we need more progesterone, that's what was making me wonder if the 100mg was too low.
I've decided to give it another week and then weigh it up against Femodene. The consultant said it was my decision, so I think both him and my GP would be ok with me going back on Femodene. I'm a bit old for it at 50, but other than that I'm low risk. It just seems like the HRT may be too much of a rollercoaster for me. My gums and vagina are also a big concern. I just didn't expect all these changes and falling to bits switching from one to another.
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Are you sure you do not have gingivitis, thus, the bleeding gums, perhaps try an oral mouth rinse for a few days or just rinse with warm salt water am sure it is not connected to the HRT at all.
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Cassie, I think it is somehow connected with the estrogen and the saliva. The estrogen and progesterone in Femodene is probably much higher and more potent than the HRT. It just started this week with the HRT. I'm assuming it's to do with the mouth being drier. Down there went the same, nothing.
I upped to 4 pumps yesterday which has increased saliva/vaginal fluids a bit and has made me feel better, but I had diarrhoea this morning and a heat rash on my stomach. I'm going to go back to 3 and see how it goes this week. I don't seem to be having side effects from the utrogestan now.
I've gained 4lbs in a week!!! The consultant told me HRT doesn't put weight on, but the pill does, so I'm not sure what's happened, but I'm hoping it will come off.
I think some of this is because most people who start HRT are going up in hormones, whereas I'm going down.
I'm also wondering if my own hormones will take a while to get going as I've taken the pill for 30 years - Hurdity, do you think this is the case and may be why I require more gel?
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Has anyone experienced an increase in breast size where they have felt slightly denser?
I increased to four pumps today. The four pumps helped with the fluids and burning, but I think I'm will go back to three because of My breasts and I woke with a rash in my stomach. Will my breasts go back?
The first few days on this regime, my stomach was so lovely and flat. Mis this the Utrogestan? Now I feel I'm gaining weight by the day and getting round. It's only been a week and 4 lbs on without changing my eating. I'd changed from the pill so was actually expecting to lose
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Hey ladies
I'm subbed to this thread. Just wanted to add my experience re the estrogel absorption( Besins). I have found that I need to rub it in... leaving to dry didn't work so well for me. I also take it in small blobs throughout the day and eve rather than big doses all at once.
Also, with a Besins estrogen gel in a tube that I bought over internet, I found I had to let dry! Bizarre- but that is my experience.
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CAtlike, why do you find you need to apply it in small doses throughout the day? I am finding that I don't think it lasts so long in my system, but I thought it was because it had to build up.
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Hurdity, wouldn't the pill have supplied consistent high progesterone levels? I was also reading that we need more progesterone, that's what was making me wonder if the 100mg was too low.
You only need the progesterone in high doses either to help with contraception ( as in the pill) or as part of HRT, to protect the womb lining. You don't need more (high) progesterone per se. That is a total myth put about by the companies that sell progesterone cream!!!
Both oestrogen and progesterone cause changes to the breasts in different ways.
Hurdity x
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Hmmm... good question. I think I read a few years ago that a big dollop might be too much for the body, as we only produce smallish amounts in our younger years. And for me if I apply to much estro in one go it can cause constipation. It may not be correct but seems to work on the whole for me. At present I'm needing 1.75mg of estro through 24 hour period. I take 10 days of 100 prog every 4 weeks. Don't get a bleed.
I'm not out of the woods yet re big hormone dips that completely floor me, that seem to have nothing to do with cycling the prog. I get estro dips on and off still way out of the prog window... hoping it will settle soon. I'm now 54.
Am now on Fluoxetine (3 weeks now) to see if it can smooth things out a bit. I've not been having a good time at all! It all just got too much for me... never knowing when my hormones were going to shift.... getting so low, burning feet on and off... tender sore feet that make walking difficult.. the list goes on and on. Have some good days of course but it's so debilitating. I thought perhaps I might have these challenges when I was a bit older. 54 is still young these days and I feel about 36 in my head!
Oh.... I've gone off topic ::)! I'll be off now. Big hugs to all going trough this incredibly difficult time!
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catlike, I got diarrhoea when I changed from the pill to the HRT. It must have been the drop in estrogen. I've read a post on another thread where someone was recommended to dose the gel throughout the day as she didn't think it was staying lon enough in her system. It was the Sandrena though. My biggest challenge at the moment is bloating. My body has changed so much from bloating in just 10 days. I looked in the mirror and just said this stops now. I don't know if it's the estrogen or the progesterone that's doing it. So do I cut the gel down or stop the progesterone for a few days ::). I hope the fluoxetine helps you.
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Its the utrogestan that causes the bloating I am on day 5 and look like I have swallowed a soccer ball, it goes away I would not stop the utrogestan or you will not be getting the correct dose to oppose the gel.
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Hi Katia
I get a bit bloated on the prog part. But only take 100mg per night. Can't recall how much you are on? Too much estro though can cause weight gain. I tried going up to 2.0mg for a month or so and definitely gained weight. I am quite strict re carbs though... keep them down as best I can. Meaning only one piece of toast or half a jacket potato!
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Hi Catlike, I'm on 100mg a night. I've just decided to have my 3 days off. Not sure if I'll get a bleed. I've also reduced the gel from 3 pumps to two. The symptoms will probably return and I have a headache today, but I'll see how it goes. The bloating and fluid are still there. They build up more as the day goes in too Strange how the pill never caused the bloating and fluid retention. Three pumps is the same estrogen as Qlaira which wasn't a problem, but is with the gel. I did read somewhere that transdermal is more likely to cause bloating Than tablets though. Just as I seem to be getting there, bam another side effect
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Does anyone actually like utrogestan?! I am thinking of changing over but panicked by all the crappy reactions to it...
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Hi
Catlike I take 1.5 elleste solo and 100mg utrogestan coninuously. I went through a long period of time with burning, painful feet making it almost impossible to walk and then it suddenly went away. It has now reared its head again and I can only say that I think it's an imbalance in hormones that kicks it off. I have seen lots of doctors and had scans but never shows up anything x
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Noheroicsplease, I'm not sure if I like Utrogestan. I do find I need to take it about 12 hours before I get up, otherwise I struggle to get up which is hard to juggle with the food. I do have some terrible bloating and fluid retention. My whole legs and my middle are swollen. I feel like my legs are struggling to move. I don't know if this is the Utrogestan or the gel. The consultant said the studies don't show it, but it is listed as a side effect on both the Utrogestan and oestrogel inserts. Both my partners suffer fluid, so maybe I'm prone to it, but not probe with the pill. I've just stopped it for a few days and have reduced the gel. The fluid is still there, but this is the first day without the Utrogestan so maybe I'll know more tomorrow. I e taken a water tablet, which I probably shouldn't have done. I have a GP appt on weds so want to figure it out. I have just read an article saying that it can cause hypotension (lower blood pressure). My blood pressure runs on the low side or normal, but I don't seem any different in that way.
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Does anyone actually like utrogestan?! I am thinking of changing over but panicked by all the crappy reactions to it...
Hi noheroicsplease - there are many of us who do not like any form of progestogen including progesterone - and some who are OK with the synthetics and not progesterone itself. Many women suffer some form of pms during the second part of their menstrual cycle so it's not surprising that this is the part of HRT that causes most of the problems - if there are going to be any.
For me it has always been a consideration of taking the most natural form of HRT in the most natural way possible (apart from the first 3 months when I didn't know anything so was given a synthetic progestogen) - so this means nil-by-mouth, and hormones that are bio-identical (ie estradiol and progesterone) . Increasingly there are studies showing the superiority of doing it this way - in terms of risks ( which is only to be expected really!) - but these
risks really only become significant considerations for those of us who take HRT long term and into our 60's.
Don't be put off - but if you are going to take it then unless you are one of the few who relish the calming effects of a small dose of progesterone ( as opposed to the sedating brian-fog-inducing properties!) - I would recommend taking it on a cycle - especially if late in menopausal transition or post-meno.
Hurdity x
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Just wondering if most of you split your dose or gel, or do it all in one go? I'm doing one pull in the morning and one at night at the moment. I'm getting really bad fluid retention and bloating which build during the day and I wondered if I did it all at night if it may help that, or maybe it won't make a difference.
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I do my hrt each morning to avoid any transfer risk
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If you feel the gel doesn't suit you and you have given it a good go, then perhaps try a patch Katia? Also try taking utrogestan on a cycle rather than the 25 days out of 28?
Hurdity x
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It's been two weeks now Hurdity. Some of the symptoms at first were, I think, from the drop from Femodene to HRT. I still have the bloating and fluid retention. I was so uncomfortable sat at my desk on Friday and so upset at the big bags under my eyes and swollen neck that I had to make some changes. I reduced my gel to two pumps and stopped the utrogestan for three days. The bloating is still there and so is the fluid, but it isn't as bad and I look a bit more normal. It's manageable. The two pumps isn't quite enough, but I could struggle by until I see the consulatant next month, or slowly add it back once I know what happens when I add the utrogestan back in tomorrow night.
I am on 25/28 cycle, but the consultant left it to me to choose. I emailed him about the fluid and he just told me to keep a symptom diary and that the stuides didn't conclude that was a side effect of HRT but was of the pill. The insert with the gel lists bloating and both the gel and the utro list fluid retention as potential side effects. I have read a study that said there was less bloating/fluid with oral estrogen.
On a cycle, how long does the bleed last? I started to bleed today - 3rd day off utrogestan. I'm still sleeping exactly the same without the utro and it hasn't affected my energy levels. I am hungrier though without that progesterone 'I'm full' signal.
Thank you Hurdity for all the time you spend responding to my many questions. I was expecting the HRT to be a smooth transition as I'd no problems with the pill.
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I'm just on my third day off of Utrogestan and the fluid retention is starting to go down. My jawline is back and the bags under my eyes not as bad. My glands are still swollen, but jot as bad. The bloating is still there too, but not anywhere near as bad without all the fluid. So it seems like a lot of it is coming from the Utrogestan. I've had to take it tonight, but tried it vaginally. Last time I did that it was just the same. Has anyone experienced this, or have any advice and do you think my body will get used to it?
I seem to have found my dose with the gel. I may need to tweak a little, but it's around 2 1/3. Does anyone find that if their estrogen goes too low they get symptoms almost within a day or so? I get dry down there, dry flaky skin, dry hair, diarrhoea and little blister like spots.
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Hi
Catlike I take 1.5 elleste solo and 100mg utrogestan coninuously. I went through a long period of time with burning, painful feet making it almost impossible to walk and then it suddenly went away. It has now reared its head again and I can only say that I think it's an imbalance in hormones that kicks it off. I have seen lots of doctors and had scans but never shows up anything x
Hi meno lesley
How horrible for you that the burning feet thing has returned! Yes i do think it's to do with the estro fluctuations or e being low. My feet get worse on the prog part definitely.
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Hello I am new to the forum but not HRT. Briefly, I got a Mirena coil in my mid forties because I had very heavy menstrual flow as peri menopausal and have fibroids. Added in Oestrogel 4 pumps a few years later when the hot flushes kicked inand have been on that regime with no problems of note for about 15 years. Decided when my last Mirena should have been changed about 2 years ago that I didn't want to continue with the coil palava and prefer things as natural as possible and not orally. basically came upon the option of Uterogestan vaginally when googling and this forum came up. So had coil removed and decided to lower Oestrogel to 3 pumps . The change obviously upset my system and promptly developed large breast lump which turned out to be a cyst thank goodness.Anyway, got script for Uterogestan and some vaginal applicators from ebay to help deliver the little jelly bean as high as possible. First 3 nights all OK and actually felt better on the progesterone, more energy and happy. Next morning spotted little jelly bean on the floor , must have escaped from the applicator before insertion. So thought best wait till tonight for next dose that night. Before then started to bleed, not a litttle, it built up to a torrent, so I decided I would let it bleed out as I must have built up quite a uterine lining in the 2 years without progesterone. So am intending to start again tonight, and as the first few days on Utro felt good I thought I would go for the 25 on 3 days off regime with a view to going continuous if the bleeding dwindles to a negligible amount each month.
Obviously everyone is different, but to manage my expectations surely it's unlikely I am going to get a torrential bleed each month ?Would you expect it to diminish ? How frequent is the incidence of breakthrough bleeding? I also have had symptoms from stopping the Utro, waking at 3am unable to get back to sleep, this morning felt tired and leaden, not a happy bunny. I know my body does best when everything is in steady state, fluctuations cause problems so am keen to get on track as soon as I can. Any info would be appreciatd. Am 61 by the way :)
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Hi Peony- one of my favourite flowers. :welcomemm:
I'm a bit confused- have you been taking oestrogel on its own for the past two years?
m.x
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Hi Peony
:welcomemm: from me too.
I am also puzzled by your regime and how your doc prescribed oestrogen without a progestogen for so long as this is negligent. Your lining could be very thick by now - although a breakthrough bleed would have been expected earlier even without taking progesterone if you have been on this much oestrogen only for so long and you are post-menopausal - due to thickening of the lining. The three days you took progesterone for will most probably be insufficient to enable all your thickened lining to shed. Personally I would actually take a double dose of 200 mg daily for some time and/or request a uterine scan asap. You should be referred for this free on NHS if a mistake has been made re your prescription which sounds like it has?
Progesterone withdrawal symptoms can be unpleasant but for those who take it cyclically - are only temporary and disappear once the progesterone has left the system and the body has adjusted. Some women do actually enjoy the low dose progesterone as it has a sedative effect so can help with sleep, but many find it is more of a depressing effect.
At you age especially it is important to get checked out re your uterus - but no reason not to continue with HRT as many of us on here are doing. Please consult a doctor for peace of mind!
Hurdity x
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Hi Peony- one of my favourite flowers. :welcomemm:
I'm a bit confused- have you been taking oestrogel on its own for the past two years?
m.x
Basically yes. Although the progesterone in the Mirena won't have run out on the dot of 4 years. It's licensed for contraception for 5 years so there would have been a diminishing amount and no breakthrough bleeding.
Anyway. The bleeding has now dwindled to almost nothing after being very heavy. I re started the progesterone last night for what I intend to be 25 days and feel better than I did yesterday.
Agree. Peonies and roses my top two flowers
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Hi Peony
:welcomemm: from me too.
I am also puzzled by your regime and how your doc prescribed oestrogen without a progestogen for so long as this is negligent. Your lining could be very thick by now - although a breakthrough bleed would have been expected earlier even without taking progesterone if you have been on this much oestrogen only for so long and you are post-menopausal - due to thickening of the lining. The three days you took progesterone for will most probably be insufficient to enable all your thickened lining to shed. Personally I would actually take a double dose of 200 mg daily for some time and/or request a uterine scan asap. You should be referred for this free on NHS if a mistake has been made re your prescription which sounds like it has?
Progesterone withdrawal symptoms can be unpleasant but for those who take it cyclically - are only temporary and disappear once the progesterone has left the system and the body has adjusted. Some women do actually enjoy the low dose progesterone as it has a sedative effect so can help with sleep, but many find it is more of a depressing effect.
At you age especially it is important to get checked out re your uterus - but no reason not to continue with HRT as many of us on here are doing. Please consult a doctor for peace of mind!
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity
Thank you for that. In my locality Mirenas are dealt with at a different location to my GP surgery, and my Oestrogel is on repeat with only having to turn up for a BP check with a nurse every 3 months . Essentially I do my research and make my own mind up. I was the first person in my surgery to have Oestrogel though they have used it subsequently since I explained the benefits. I wouldn't have used Oestrogel unnopposed indefinitely obviously, but neither did I want to mess my body about chopping and changing and I wanted to find a non oral route post Mirena . I had decided I would spend a few months on the new regime, I lost a lot of blood over the past few days, and then ask for a uterine scan so I can check on the new reality but thank you for your concern. I will see how I go over the 25 days but I actually found the progesterone a definite mood lifter for the 5 days I took it and I am not depressed to start with. Fingers crossed , I will let you know how it goes.
Peony
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My consultant said the progesterone in the Mirena goes for , it's only,licenced for 4 for HRT as the stopped the study.
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Peony - could you just clarify that you've been using unopposed oestrogel for 2 years at 3 pumps? And no breakthrough bleeding or any other symptoms?
I'm just really curious.
Sx
Unopposed in the sense that my Mirena was still in place but had been there for over 6 years by the time it was removed. And no, not a spot of breakthrough bleeding or other symptoms. I was on four pumps of Oestrogel until about 6 weeks ago, 2 pumps on thighs in morning, 2 pumps on arms in evening I just dropped one of the evening ones.
Contrast this with I have re started the Utrogestan, last night was night 2, and my bleeding which had dwindled to nothing is ramping up again. Mirena starting to look more attractive, though I am not getting any other negative sx with Utro that I have noticed so am going to persist and see what happens.
Peony - could you just clarify that you've been using unopposed oestrogel for 2 years at 3 pumps? And no breakthrough bleeding or any other symptoms?
I'm just really curious.
Sx
[/quote]
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Hi Peony - Ah I see - I was confused - I thought you had had the coil taken out and then had two years of estrogel. So you've just had it removed recently? I agree - as there is progestogen left in it this would have given you quite a lot of protection until recently perhaps - but at some point your lining would have started thickening, hence the bleeding now.
As others have said the fibroids could also be causing this very heavy bleeding as well as (presumably) having a thickened lining so having another Mirena fitted would definitely help here.
Hurdity x
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Hi All,
Anyone experienced thrush,BV and cystitus symptoms from going onto Estrogel ?
Anyone taking progresterone that have had a hysterectomy ?? Have been told i don't need it .... but don't you need to oppose the Estrogen ?
Still having bad mood swings with depression, anxiety .... raging moments, losing all sense of sensibility
Currently on 2 pumps of Estrogel and 5 mg Testosterone gel
I don't know if this agreeing with me , should i increase / decrease or just stop.... not sure how much more can take of this
Y x
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Hi Y- I'd suggest maybe starting a new post on this as it might get missed - you should get more responses that way.
You don't need to take progesterone if you don't have a womb- it's taken to keep the womb lining thin.
Not sure about your testesterone dose- normally only as small peas sized blob is taken. You could try increasing your oestrogel to even 4 or 5 pumps a day and maybe split it morning and night.
Maybe you're not absorbing it very well and a patch or pill would work better for you?
On the subject of the infections done below, have they all been confirmed as such? Vaginal atrophy can mimic these - in which case you may benefit from topical oestrogen cream.
Sorry you're feeling so crap- go back to your docs. Have a read and browse round the site and hope you feel better soon :bighug:
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I'm using Estradot 50 patch along with Utrogestan alternating between 100 & 200 x 10 days vaginally for approx 18 months and recently had my review with my GP where we discussed about me having a scan to check the lining of the womb, now I know this has to be done fairly soon after the withdrawal bleed ends but today the appointment came through for next Friday 18th and I haven't even began the bleed yet, I took the last Utrogestan last night so the bleed may not begin until Sunday, now if it lasts 4 days I should be finished by Thursday but this is pushing it, I may still have some brown discharge on the Friday the day of the scan. What I would like to know is would it be ok to go to the scan on the Friday or should I try change it? I won't be free to go back until the following Tuesday though which would be 5 days after the bleed, that is of course assuming the bleed doesn't begin until Sunday, it would be perfect it it begins tomorrow giving me a full week. And of course if they can fit me in on that Tuesday, I don't know how busy they are, any later will be too late I would think?
Also it says I need a full bladder for this scan which I believe is done vaginally? Is this correct?
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If it's like mine then you have a full bladder for the first part which is an ultrasound of the abdomen then you are allowed to get up and empty your bladder before having the internal probe scan.
I had mine both times while having a period so I would say that it would be better to keep the appointment even if you are still experiencing the tail end of a period when you go rather than have the lining beginning to build up again? Let us know how it goes
Taz x
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Thank you Taz, I'm hoping my bleed starts asap and I will be totally finished by next Friday. Yes I''ll be sure to let you know how it goes. Cross fingers everything is ok in there ;)
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Goosieloosie - it's great that your doc has approved a scan on NHS - this is what should happen with all women taking HRT and especially if it is slightly non-standard. Good luck with it and would be interested to hear how you get on especially on this regime?
Hurdity x
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I'm just reporting back as I had my scan today. My HRT bleed lasted 4 days but was lighter than normal this month and ended on Tuesday and the scan was today Friday. It was all done very quickly and I was told by the lady doing it that my lining is 5mm. She said it goes off age and what stage of menopause you are at? She also said I am to go back to my GP in about a week for the results. Does 5mm sound ok? I am 55 almost 56, 3 years postmenopausal and been on HRT almost 2 years where I have regular bleeds.
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5mm sounds perfectly good, well done.
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That's great Goosieloosie! Mine was somewhere between 4 and 5 I think when last scanned last year and immediately following a bleed. I think this is the level that docs like to see although some women have a thicker lining than this.
Excellent news - that it means you can continue with the regime that suits you - and good idea to get a scan now and again as time goes on :)
Hurdity x
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Thank you, that is a relief for me to know that as I had been reading that 5mm was the border line and was getting myself a bit concerned :-\
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Hello Ladies
I'm hoping to become a member of Team Utrogestan/Estrogel! :D
I've just turned just 50, and perimenopausal since December 2015. I've been taking Femoston 2/10 since June 2016 and it was working well for me up until March this year. I think I've been having problems with absorption (stressful few months: stress goes straight to my tummy) and my hormones are all over the place. I've been reading as much as I can and think I'd like to try a transdermal option and gel seems preferable to patches. I'm seeing my GP tomorrow, so just hope I can persuade her ... she has a local Guidance and Treatment Pathway she has to adhere to. :sigh:
So for those of you who have done the transition from Femoston 2/10 to Utrogestan/Estrogel how was that experience for you? Is there a long "settling in" period and did you start off at 2 pumps of gel?
Any top tips are welcomed.
RR
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I have been on the utrogestan/oestrogel combo for about 18 months. Utrogestan for 7 days vaginally plus 2, that rose to 4 pumps a day for moodiness.(GP was ok with this). All good and a scan a few months ago showed a thin lining. I dropped down to 3 pumps a few months ago, as I thought 4 was a lot and I seem ok on 3. Thing is, I haven't had a bleed since lowering the dose to 3 pumps. When I initially started on this drug combo there were several months when I didn't have a bleed and the GP was happy and said it was because the uterine lining wasn't building up enough to shed.
My question is, is it ok not to have a bleed? Three pumps is still a lit. I am 54 and had not stopped my periods when I started on hrt.
Thanks
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Usually it is abnormal bleeding that is considered more of a problem then lack of bleeding - but what you don't want to happen is for the lining to increase without shedding so that it then might shed when it has got a lot thicker than it should - if you see what I mean? That being the case I would monitor it and then if you continue not to bleed then ask your doc for another scan - if it was only a few months ago then maybe all will be well. If you are not having natural periods though it does seem odd not to bleed on the HRT regime. Perhaps the amount of oestrogen you are using is suppressing your cycle - but a bleed would still be expected, I would have thought, with only a short duration of progesterone - seven days progesterone is less than the licensed dose. If your doc is happy though - then should be OK? Sorry that's probably not much help!
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity, it is helpful just to mull it over!
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Just an update as i've been on the utro/oestrogel combo for about 3 months or so now. The good news is I have felt great since adding in the utro. Energised, motivated, positive. I didn't take a break after 25 days last time as I was on holiday and wanted to avoid a bleed. My breasts did become very tense, swollen with tender/painful nipples but I took a 3 day break as soon as I got home and that disappeared.
i do get slight smudges throughout the cycle but not enough to cause a problem. Am now on day 9 of the next cycle and had a bleed day 9 last time. Nothing apart from smudges so far since the break. I didn't bleed for years when I had a Mirena so perhaps am going the same way. I do feel a bit bloated at the moment, bit like PMT so will see what happens . So far the utro 100mg vaginally at night for 25/28 and 3 oestrogel pumps, 2 am and 1 pm seems to be good for me but don't yet feel I am in a routine with the bleeding as yet may take another couple of cycles I guess.
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Thanks for the update Peony and glad it's working for you - especially the vaginal use of Utrogestan on a continuous basis - since there are not many of us who do this due to bladder irritation and also not wanting to take progesterone continuously.
Do you mean you get up in the middle of the night to apply the estrogel :o and do you mean 3 pumps in total? If you are taking quite a high dose of gel then you may well get a small bleed eventually when you stop the utro although it is mainly designed as a no-bleed continuous combined HRT with the break just in case there is any thickening. Some women do find they get random spotting on the conti dose but perhaps less so with vaginal use as the dose would be more consistent.
Hope you continue to feel well :)
Hurdity x
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Hi, sorry I havent posted for a while but just spent quite a while reading foru threads, which I am very glad for. I have been taking a Sandrena Gel 1mg daily plus Utrogeston Days 15-26 ( prescribed 200mg orally) for nearly five months. I have however for the last three months used Utrogeston vaginally at 100mg for 12 days. each month I have a bleed after stopping the utrogeston, an average bleed ( I used to have very heavy periods, so not debilitating like they where) I was much happier with this regime than my previous Evoril Sequi 50 mg which caused me signifcant side effects. My problem is severly irritated Bladder, which has gotten worse, and this month caused a lot of discomfort, and lack of sleep due to toilet trips. I am at a crossroads as I dont think I can use the Utrogeston due to side effects, taking it orally caused terrible brain fog, and confusion, anxiety, but using it vaginally, although intially it seemd to be ok has become intolerable, as my bladder is so irritated. Any suggestions, as I think I may need to consider another form of HRT. I am 49 and started HRT spring 2016 - I am late peri. I am also booked in for an ulrtrosound as have had a tender sometimes area above my pubic bone, which flares up. I have made a GP app to look at the HRT, as I am taking Sadrena daily but need to switch to another form of progesteron to complete this cycle or try a differnent type of HRT. I had really hoped this would work for me as I have had problems with synthetic progesteron in the past ( mirena) so wonder if there are any alternative regimes I could try? I am considering Provera and Sandrena Gel, and or switching to Oestrogel. Overall I would say that the Sandrena/Utro combo worked well, and I had less PMT type symtons, and less mood swings, its a pity my bladder is having such a problem. Any suggestions very welcome :) thankyou
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Sorry to hear you are having problems with the utrogestan. Sadly it doesn't work for everyone exactly for the reasons you mention. I do find it irritates my bladder somewhat but as I only use it every 6-8 weeks (long cycle - with GP approval) I can bear this.
I can't see that you would benefit from changing to estrogel - the only advantage being it is in a pump pack so presumably you can regulate the amount easier (I've never used oestrogen gel)? However Sandrena is more concentrated than estrogel so you use less of it to get the same effect so would say this is an advantage. You can always fold over the sachet if you use more or less gel and save for the next day(which is what those of us who have testosterone gel also do).
Provera or the Mirena are the only two alternatives so it's a matter of preference. Any reason not to try another Mirena if it suited you in the past?
Let us know what you decide and how you get on :)
Hurdity x
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Sera, I find provera is the easiest of the two. It doesn't make me groggy like the utro. I do wish there was more choice of individual progestegens like dropserinone or norgestimate which are in some combo but not available as stand alones.
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Thanks Hurdity and Katia :) I dont know what I would do with out this forum so again a big Thankyou. I am going to see ths GP try the Provera and see how I get on, hopefully it wil work out. Thanks also for the input Hurdity about Sandrena, as you say I get on well with it, so will stick with and probably not a great idea to tinker with my Oestrogen while I try out Provera. As for the mirena, sorry I didnt word that so well, I did have it for heavy periods but I was quite affected PMS style by hormone in it- although it helped a bit with the periods. Off course it was after they took out the mirena that my GP did my bloods and informed me that I had started the menapause and could have HRT. so its hard to be totally objective to how it affected me, as had began feeling awful, very down when I saw GP, but I am not a big fan, although I know it works really well for many. I will let you know how I get on. Yes Katia its a shame we don't have more of a choice on stand alone progestegens. Thanks :)
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Hello everyone,
I've posted here a bunch of times over this last year as I've struggled with VA and burning...
It a very long story but basically I'm at my wit's end with continuous burning and pain. I'm not sure whether to post this here or on the vulvodynia thread, but as its an estrogel question, I'll start here.
I am using two puffs, one on each thigh in the morning. I feel very low, full of dread and am fighting back tears all the time. Normally, I'm a grounded cheerful person. Also have terrible burning and vulodynia which I've been struggling with now for a year.
I feel the crying and dread are low estrogen symptoms and that I should increase my dose up to 3 pumps. Isn't that a lot ? If I do, is the received wisdom to apply them all at once or in divided doses ?
Thanks everyone.
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Thanks for the update Peony and glad it's working for you - especially the vaginal use of Utrogestan on a continuous basis - since there are not many of us who do this due to bladder irritation and also not wanting to take progesterone continuously.
Do you mean you get up in the middle of the night to apply the estrogel :o and do you mean 3 pumps in total? If you are taking quite a high dose of gel then you may well get a small bleed eventually when you stop the utro although it is mainly designed as a no-bleed continuous combined HRT with the break just in case there is any thickening. Some women do find they get random spotting on the conti dose but perhaps less so with vaginal use as the dose would be more consistent.
Hope you continue to feel well :)
No am not so dedicated as to get up in the middle of the night to apply oestrogel. I apply two pumps in the morning after my shower one on each thigh. Then I wash my upper arm when am getting ready for bed and apply one pump then. I ve always done better on divided doses when I first started and had bad menopausal symptoms I found taking all the oestrogel in the morning didn't work. The fluctuations in levels caused symptoms so I divided the doses and that helped. I haven't had a bleed and am now 10 days into the next cycle so hopefully will settle down to no bleed. When I was researching menopause I discovered that it was the fluctuations in hormone levels that caused the symptoms rather than the absolute levels so I have always tried to avoid fluctuations in dosing. This combination seems to be working well for me at present so will see what the future brings. Thanks for your help.
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Hi everyone
I would like some advice.
A bit of background. I'm 61 and been on Utrogestan 100 vaginally (at night) and 1 pump of Estradiol per day (in the morning) for 4 weeks. I was prescribed both of these to try and elevate my mood - I was very down and crying much of the time. My mood does appear to be more stable but prior to using Utrogestan and Estradiol I had never suffered from overheating or hot sweats but now particularly in the mornings once I start walking (outside) I am so hot and sweaty (like a fever) and my hair become soaking wet. Whilst everyone else is wearing coats I'm in a T-shirt. It seems to subside in the afternoon and when I'm sitting down.
My question - has anyone else suffered this side effect? I'm wondering whether the balance between the Utrogestan and the Estradiol needs adjusting, or maybe I should apply the Estradiol at night rather than in the morning.
Any advice would be much appreciated
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Hi ladies
I have just started this regime on day 11 of my cycle and was told to use 1mg sachet of estradiol (Divigel) every day and then 200mg oral Utrogestan day 14-28. Day 14 of my cycle will be tomorrow and so I know that I have to start Utrogestan then. However I am confused about when to "restart" the Utrogestan in the next cycle - do I wait until the first day of the bleed and then count 14 days from that OR do do I restart the Utrogestan 14 days after I last stopped it irrespective of what day the bleed started on?
Sorry my head is melted due to brain fog....I guess what I am trying to ask is is it 14 days gel followed by 14 days gel/Utrogestan , then you start again 14 days gel followed by 14 days gel/Utrogestan? I am trying to figure out if you should wait for the bleed to start and then count 14 days from that date to restart the progesterone?
Mav
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Hi everyone
I would like some advice.
A bit of background. I'm 61 and been on Utrogestan 100 vaginally (at night) and 1 pump of Estradiol per day (in the morning) for 4 weeks. I was prescribed both of these to try and elevate my mood - I was very down and crying much of the time. My mood does appear to be more stable but prior to using Utrogestan and Estradiol I had never suffered from overheating or hot sweats but now particularly in the mornings once I start walking (outside) I am so hot and sweaty (like a fever) and my hair become soaking wet. Whilst everyone else is wearing coats I'm in a T-shirt. It seems to subside in the afternoon and when I'm sitting down.
My question - has anyone else suffered this side effect? I'm wondering whether the balance between the Utrogestan and the Estradiol needs adjusting, or maybe I should apply the Estradiol at night rather than in the morning.
Any advice would be much appreciated
Can be the progesterone as it raises bodycore temperature or the estrogen/progesterone ratio. You also take the progesterone vaginal so higher absorption as oppose to oral. Not sure re suggestions...hope the very knowlegeable ladies on here can help more.
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Hi ladies
Can anyone answer my question above?
Thanks for your help
Mav
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Mav you do not stop the gel you use it every single day and just use the utrogestan from the 14th of each month.
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Hi ladies
I have just started this regime on day 11 of my cycle and was told to use 1mg sachet of estradiol (Divigel) every day and then 200mg oral Utrogestan day 14-28. Day 14 of my cycle will be tomorrow and so I know that I have to start Utrogestan then. However I am confused about when to "restart" the Utrogestan in the next cycle - do I wait until the first day of the bleed and then count 14 days from that OR do do I restart the Utrogestan 14 days after I last stopped it irrespective of what day the bleed started on?
Sorry my head is melted due to brain fog....I guess what I am trying to ask is is it 14 days gel followed by 14 days gel/Utrogestan , then you start again 14 days gel followed by 14 days gel/Utrogestan? I am trying to figure out if you should wait for the bleed to start and then count 14 days from that date to restart the progesterone?
Mav
Hi Mav, This always confuses me too but I think you count the first day of the bleed as Day 1 of the whole cycle and on day 15 take the first utrogestan for 12 days, stop then hopefully have a bleed within 3 day's and count the first day of the bleed as day one again. I hope someone can clarify this as this is my understanding anyway??
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Mav you do not stop the gel you use it every single day and just use the utrogestan from the 14th of each month.
Cassis do you mean I take the Utrogestan for 14 days on and then 14 days off irrespective of when the bleed happens? (I know I need to use the gel every day)
Are u on this regime, how do you find it?
Thanks for your help.
Mav
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You supposed to take the Utrogestan on the same date every month, I use it from day 15 of the month through to day 26. The bleed comes approx 4 days after you have stopped it, its a really regular cycle just as was when you were not yet menopausal. Does this make sense? I find it fantastic, really works, but I use 100mg of Utrogestan couldnt handle a heavier dosage.
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Am still confused...on the prescription the doc wrote " Utrogestan 200mg at night every second fortnight"....on the back of the prescription she wrote "start Utrogestan day 14 - use it 14 days on + off". So I am thinking she means I start yesterday which was my day 14 and then I take it for 14 days and then stop for 14 days and then restart for 14 days and then stop again and so on in that sequence.
I think I will call her on Monday to be sure.
Cassie when you say you couldn't handle a dosage heavier than 100mg - does that mean it gives you side effects? Could you share those with me so that I know what to watch out for. I have been put on this regime as I have killer headaches and migraines and doc is hoping to balance my hormones out to see if it helps those symptoms.
Thanks
Mav
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Hi ladies
Can anyone answer my question above?
Thanks for your help
Mav
From my personal experience it could be the fluctuation in oestrogen levels in your body causing your symptoms. I got symptoms when I took all my oestrogel in the morning so I divided the dose and used half in the morning and half in the evening. Tricky if you are only using 1 pump. If you would consider using two pumps a day and your doctor is happy might be worth a try
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Thanks Peony....the Estrogen I am using isn't a pump it's a sachet 1mg so I think it suddenly be hard to equally divide the dose each day....I will ask my doc about this. Do u take Utrogestan and if yes how often do u take it?
Thanks for ur help
Mav
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Dont overthink it Mav just start Utrogestan on the 14th of each month, its that simple and use it for 12 days then when you stop you will get a bleed and then you start again its a very simple cycle. I got bad tinnitus and very jittery on the heavier dose.
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Thanks Cassie....I checked with my doc today - I started the Utrogestan last Friday which was day 14 of my cycle and I have to take it for 14 days, then I stop it for 14 days and then restart it and stay on it for 14 days and continue that pattern. So it's Estrogen gel every day and Utrogestan for 14 days on and 14 days off.
So I am all set - hopefully it will work when all else has failed over the last year.
Thank you for your support.
Mav
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Hi Mav196
Have only just seen this as I was away for a long weekend then. No wonder you are confused because actually the licensed dose of utrogestan is 12 days per 28. I suspect she has said 14 days because it's easier to count - as with the patches where the combi patches are for a fortnight followed by a fortnight of oestrogen only. My view is that it is overkill to take it for this long (14 days) - unless your personal situation (re womb lining and any issues eg fibroids, or higher oestrogen dose) demands this.
I just posted on another thread about this - a long response and can repost here if it helps so that it's on this thread too! Cassie's is the easiest way but may not be appropriate if you are still peri-menopausal.
"There always seems to be confusion about when to take Utrogestan - understandably!
Firstly it depends on whether you are peri or post-menopausal and the length of your normal menstrual cycle – ie whether you are trying to fit in with the average 28 day cycle?
The licensed dose of Utrogestan for cyclical HRT is 200 mg for 12 days per 28 day cycle days 15-26.
To do this - if you are in early peri-menopause: for a 28 day cycle – say you are starting HRT (Utrogestan and Estrogel) for the first time : Day 1 is the first day of your (normal) bleed. Start the oestrogel Day 1. When you get to Day 15 start the Utrogestan. Take it for the last time on Day 26 (ie 12 days). Day 27 go back to the oestrogel only and on Day 28 oestrogel only again. Ideally you would start your bleed on Day 1 again – but in practice it may not happen. However the usual advice is to stay with the cycle and keep with the course of Utrogestan. You just carry on taking the oestrogel from Day 1 (whether or not your bleed arrives) until Day 15 again. Easy to set up on your calendar as it will be the same day of the week, but 4 weeks after your first Day 1 if you see what I mean!
Also if you are having irregular periods then you might be waiting forever for your next period ie Day 1 so the usual advice is to start anytime. You might then be out of sync with your own cycle so sometimes you can readjust by starting to count again on your bleed (to give a new Day 1) if you end up getting periods substantially at the wrong time.
Once your periods become few and far between or you are post-menopausal then your natural cycle becomes irrelevant or nearly so. Then you can in effect choose your cycle as Cassie does – and keep with the 28 day cycle (which keeps your bleeds/progesterone withdrawal symptoms to the same days of the week if you respond the same each month) or stretch the cycle a bit to 12 cycles per annum rather than 13 and go with the calendar month ie the first of every month to start your Utrogestan (or whatever day you choose eg 15th !).
Some of us stretch the cycle even further (with doc's approval) due to lack of bleed on the shorter cycles – and this minimises progesterone exposure.
Even if you are peri-menopausal it might work out OK as Cassie does it ie take it every calendar month on the same date?"
Does this make sense?
Hurdity x
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Ladies thanks so much for your replies...i have had to make the decision to stop the HRT after only 9 days - unfortunately my eyelash, eyebrow and pubic hair is shedding at an ALARMING rate - this started last month when I was on Cerazette for 14 days (and in 2015 when I was on Cerazette) I think it is an allergy/intolerance to the progesterone and so I was afraid to continue pumping in more progesterone (Utrogestan) with the HRT. I have an appt at end of this month with a dermatologist who specialises in hair loss as I need to understand if this hair loss is caused only by synthetic progesterone or if I am going to continue to have this problem with utrogestan also. Hair loss has been an issue for me since 2015 - a lot of the eyebrow, eyelash and body hair that I lost never regrew and so this is something that i need to get to the bottom of once and for all. I realise that we do lose hair as we age but an abrupt loss starting at age 45 is prob not normal.
Am totally frustrated now as i really felt that the HRT was helping my daily headaches.
I will keep you posted
Mav
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Hi all.
Its been about a year since I posted on here and I'm back because I'm in a bit of a pickle and could really use some helpful insights.
I was on 2mg of sandrena every day and 200mg Utrogestan for 12 days a month. I'd started on this regime because I couldn't tolerate the daily 100mg Utrogestan and 1mg sandrena regime and felt very sure that it was the progesterone I was sensitive to. My meno specialist nurse was happy for me to move to the 200mg for 12 days and see how much sandrena was the right balance. Anyway, all was ok to start with but then things started to go wrong - dry eyes, dry hair, increasing tinnitus, muscle aches, ongoing voice issues. Things got so bad that my optician wanted me to have my tear ducts operated on to “plug†them because my eyes had become worryingly dry. She told me that it the oestrogen part of my HRT. I decided to take an HRT break because I just wanted to find out where I was in the menopause (I started on HRT in the peri menopause). I quickly developed terrible hot flushes every 20 minutes day and night and my sleep deteriorated to the point I wasn't safe to drive. Back to the menopause nurse who supported my wish to try again. She suggested I start on 100mg utrogestan daily and then one pump of estrogel and gradually increase it. She agreed that the 2mg of sandrena might have been too much and that I was happy to convince myself that I had been wrong all along and it was, indeed, oestrogen that was the problem, not progesterone.
Happily, I couldn't get the estrogel immediately from the chemist so I had the ideal opportunity to prove that I didn't need oestrogen after all!
Needless to say, after just 3 days my eyes were drying out and my tinnitus was terrible and my joints ached with no loss at all of hot flushes. After a week I'd lost my voice totally. I started the estrogel one pump a day, the flushes eased but all the progesterone symptoms stayed and are getting worse and my mood has slumped and is flat. I am feeling completely desperate and don't know what to do - it seems that I have a choice between unmanageable menopause symptoms or unmanageable progesterone symptoms.
What I don't understand is: I was on other HRT regimes before (TriSequens, Elleste, tibilone, femostan conti) and I didn't get these severe progesterone side effects. I moved on each time when the benefits started to wear off as I slipped towards the menopause and then deeper into it. Why does utrogestan cause these side effects?
Secondly, I know that my NHS menopause nurse is adamant that, if I take utrogestan less than continuously I must use 200mg (vaginally) but the symptoms build and build and don't wear off during my break. But I read a lot about women using 100mg for 7days and wondered if I can only get this regime if I can find £££s for a private consultation.
Thirdly, if I decide to simply try 100mg for 7days alongside 1-2 pumps of estrogel, how do I get an endometrial scan? Can I book one myself?
So sorry for the long post but I wanted to give a clear picture of what is going on. I am feeling very worried about my declining mood.
Can anyone at all shed some light on all of this please? Thank you so much for your time.
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Hi Rachel FD
Sorry to hear you are struggling still.
To try to answer your questions (I'm sure others will too!):
1. Because progesterone (as in utrogestan) is unstable in the body it has to be taken in large doses in order for the right concentrations to get to the uterus where it is needed. The metabolic by-products ( and therefore side effects) are much greater when taken orally due to the "liver first-pass effect" ie has to go through liver as it goes through digestive system. There is no getting away from this and vaginal use minimises the side effects and theoretically permits lower doses to be taken. There is limited research demonstrating this (lower vaginal doses to be effective) but sadly no licensed appropriate vaginal dose - so any dosing is off licence either by private/NHS gynaes or enlightened GPs.
2. Your nurse is sticking rigidly to the licensed oral dosing and perhaps is not qualified to permit variation from this. Can you visit a GP with gynae/menopause specialism or ask for a referral to your nearest menopause clinic (there might be a wait) - you should not need a private consultation? The 7 day regime is strictly off -licence and in some women could lead to endometrial thickening hence should only be done under supervision.
3. As above - there may be medical reasons why adopting the 7 day prog regime would not be advisable in your case so I would not do this without medical approval. Once you have this then yes - if you can afford it, an annual scan would be advisable - just to check the uterus lining is not over-thickening. Ideally you want to monitor this before you reach the stage of abnormal bleeding - to guard against the possibility of endometrial cancer. The risk is greater with overweight women and those who consume too much alcohol ( more than rec limits).
If you are now post-menopausal ( and looking back at your posts you may well be?) another option is to try a longer cycle as I do ( also under supervision). So I take utrogestan every 6-8 weeks. I still do the 12 days x 200 mg vaginally but doing the full course allows all the structural changes to take place before the lining is shed - that's my take on it anyway. It is dose and duration of progesterone which governs the behaviour of the uterus lining following oestrogenic stimulation. Once the prog has left my system - I feel absolutely fine for the next say 5 weeks on oestrogen only and I don't feel the effects build up cumulatively. I definitely wouldn't want to take it 12 days monthly. I'd be a tired lethargic headachey heap and I'm far too young to feel like that (mid 60's!).
Hope this helps and I'm sure others will be along to give their take on the 7 day Studd regime ::)
Hurdity x
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rachel FD, if you feel that your progesterone symptoms are unmanagable then perhaps you should consider a private consultation. You have two choices, using the NHS and sticking with their licensed dose of progesterone or going to a private consultant who does not stick to the NHS guidelines and is happy to prescribe a lower dose. Many of us don't have a choice because we can't tolerate any form of progesterone for very long and therefore it's reduce the dose or bust. Like you, I experienced the cumulative effect of Utrogestan and each time it took longer and longer for the effects to wear off.
You can book uterine scans yourself and one member did it through Mothercare if I remember rightly. I think it costs about £100.
I was on the 100mg 7 day Utrogestan regime (I have since changed to a different regime) and didn't have any problems with it but of course it is sensible to have regular scans to make sure it is working properly.
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Thanks so much Hurdity. To clarify - I'm
seen by a menopause nurse specialist at our local menopause clinic and she has been brilliant with me. She really supports me to experiment but, as you say, she is bound to a degree by NHS and NICe guidelines. I do use the Utrogestan vaginally but it doesn't help that much as it still gets in systemically. I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome which makes all the connective tissue in my body fat too soft and so I get joint, voice and hearing problems at the best of times but the softening effects of progesterone really crank it up (preganancy was horrid!) increasing oestrogen doesn't, it seems, reduce the effects of the progesterone. The specialist nurse says that, if I use utrogestan less than continuously, I must take 200mg but that is just too much for me and accumulates.
I guess I'm puzzled as to why utrogestan seems to upset many women more than other forms of progesterone and whether I can ask my NHS specialist to prescribe 100mg for a shorter time. Did you get into your regime which suits you via the NHS or did you have to put your hand in your pocket? Is it worth asking my NHS specialist about a 7 day 100mg regime?
My current bugbear is that I'm now not only taking HRT but also ranitidine for heartburn, regular painkillers for my joints, menthol sweets for my hoarse voice and senna for constipation. The painkillers and progesterone are making my tinnitus so bad that I'm being fitted with hearing aid- sound enrichment devices later this week!
I know myself well enough to know that my joints love oestrogen and it also stabilises my small ear bones too which eases my tinnitus.
Thanks so much again. Much appreciated.
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Hi Mary G. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my lengthy post and reply. That's exactly it: reduce the dose or bust!! I feel really low in mood and my joints are quickly deteriorating- even my husband has noticed more popping as I move!
So did you go private? If so, was it in London and did it break the bank? I'm happy to break my bank if I can be sure of a good in-rushes consultation and a personalised approach but, obviously, if possible, I'd prefer to keep costs down.
Interesting to know I can self-book a scam - D'you do that or does your dr sort it out??
Thanks again Mary G.
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rachel FD, I am always happy to help if I can. My GP was no help at all and I ended up having to seek help privately so I consulted Professor John Studd in London and it cost about £300. He prescribed 3 pumps (now reduced to 2 pumps) of Oestrogel, 7 days of 100mg Utrogestan (vaginally) and also testosterone. It was the low dose Utrogestan which gave me a much needed breakthrough and made HRT viable.
Because I am severely progesterone intolerant and on a very low dose of Utrogestan, I have to have regular scans with a gynaecologist who I can visit whenever I need to. I am a particularly difficult case because all types of progesterone used in HRT preparations trigger debilitating silent migraines so I have to keep the dose very low to avoid them. Basically the higher the dose/longer the duration, the more it builds up in my system and the more migraine attacks I get. I also have a migraine specialist who said that progesterone changes the way your brain receptors work so in my particular case, more progesterone means more migraines and sometimes it takes me a long time to adjust back to normal after a progesterone cycle. I have since moved to a different HRT regime which does not contain progesterone.
You are unlikely to get any NHS medic to agree to the 7 day Utrogestan regime, their guidelines are very rigid and they probably won't budge.
One question, are you post menopause? If so, you might want to look into a new HRT called Duavive which is bleed/progesterone free. This is an interesting product because it diverts oestrogen away from the womb (hence no periods) and the breasts where it is not needed and (hopefully) works better on the parts of the body it needs to.
I hope that helps.
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Hello Mary G,
I have been reading your thread - thank you for sharing your experience, it is very useful to learn about these different combinations.
The Duavive sounds very interesting. Is that what you are on now?
Good luck
Kkay
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Thanks Mary G that's really helpful. I am 56 so definitely menopausal and I didn't bleed at all during my months off HRT. I started on HRT as soon as I started in perimenopause so it's been about ten years I guess. Possibly longer.
How horrid to be so beset with migraines: my mum used to suffer terribly and my husband gets ocular migraines. Progesterone is often a problem in the EDS community but the NHS tends towards a more one-size-fits-all approach (I speak as a non-NHS midwife so understand the constraints of the system) which doesn't help those of us who don't quite fit the box.
I have a telephone follow up with the menopause specialist nurse in mid-November and not sure how to make it through to then as I'm feeling so rough. I actually considered asking for a hysterectomy so I could then have oestrogen only! Bonkers. I think £300 seems an ok price actually- thought it'd be much more than that. D'you just see Mr S. once or D'you have to keep seeing him? Will he advise on how often to get scans and D'you have to keep your GP informed? Also, would u need to ask my GP to print off all the different HRT brands I've taken over the years (as my hormones have slid, the HRR stops working and I've been moved to a different one).
Sorry for all the questions and I do really appreciate your time and honesty - so helpful and reassuring as I don't have anyone else to ask.
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rachel FD and Kkay, until a couple of days ago, I was going to start a new thread on my new Bazedoxifene/Oestrogel (2 pumps) trial but now I am not so sure and I'm erring on the side of not starting the thread. Please send me a PM and I will give you all the details, it is going very well indeed so far and there is lots to tell - same goes for any other interested members.
rachel FD, I am also 56 and about 10 years post menopause. My personal view is that most HRT regimes are far too inflexible and that HRT should fit the patient, not the other way round. You are not alone in considering a hysterectomy, I am still considering it if my latest trial doesn't fly and Professor Studd recommended it in my case. What exactly are you supposed to do if you are severely progesterone intolerant, flick a switch and make yourself able to take it?
Problems with progesterone intolerance come up on this forum time and time again and I would go as far as to say it is the biggest problem with HRT. That is why the new Duavive makes so much sense and I am hoping that Bazedoxifene will revolutionise HRT and also make it safer because it diverts oestrogen away from the breasts and the womb. HRT is in a rut and needs to move forward.
In your situation, I would give Duavive a go and you could try ringing your specialist now and ask for a prescription.
I think it is highly unlikely that the NHS would prescribe my regime of Bazedoxifene/Oestrogel and I don't think you would get it privately in the UK either.
I might have mentioned to my GP that I am on HRT but I rarely go there to be honest. You could just see Professor Studd as a one-off if you wish. He doesn't make uterine scans a condition of using his regime but of course it is sensible for all women to have them from time to time - how else do you check ovaries etc?
Please do send a PM and we can discuss this further. I hope that helps.
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Fantastic info! S'cuse my ignorance but how do I send a PM on this site?
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Rachel, if you click on my name at the side of this post, a profile will come up and you will see there is an option under 'actions' which says 'send personal message'. Don't worry for now, I will send you my email address via PM.
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Hi guys hope all are well. 2nd day of the oestrogel/urtogestron regime. Hope my hair doesnt fall out with the new regime. I have been on femostan and prempak c. Prempak c made me hair grow! I am 41 years of age. I was diagnosed 3 years ago. Any advice would help. Thank you
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Hi Sambeaute
:welcomemm:
Maybe introduce yourself in the new members section so that more members can welcome you?
What doses are you taking and are you taking it cyclically or continuously? I hope the regime works for you but if not there are different ways of taking it as you will read on here, as it's important you have replacement oestrogen at your young age.
Hurdity x
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Thanks so much Hurdity. To clarify - I'm
seen by a menopause nurse specialist at our local menopause clinic and she has been brilliant with me. She really supports me to experiment but, as you say, she is bound to a degree by NHS and NICe guidelines. I do use the Utrogestan vaginally but it doesn't help that much as it still gets in systemically. I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome which makes all the connective tissue in my body fat too soft and so I get joint, voice and hearing problems at the best of times but the softening effects of progesterone really crank it up (preganancy was horrid!) increasing oestrogen doesn't, it seems, reduce the effects of the progesterone. The specialist nurse says that, if I use utrogestan less than continuously, I must take 200mg but that is just too much for me and accumulates.
I guess I'm puzzled as to why utrogestan seems to upset many women more than other forms of progesterone and whether I can ask my NHS specialist to prescribe 100mg for a shorter time. Did you get into your regime which suits you via the NHS or did you have to put your hand in your pocket? Is it worth asking my NHS specialist about a 7 day 100mg regime?
My current bugbear is that I'm now not only taking HRT but also ranitidine for heartburn, regular painkillers for my joints, menthol sweets for my hoarse voice and senna for constipation. The painkillers and progesterone are making my tinnitus so bad that I'm being fitted with hearing aid- sound enrichment devices later this week!
I know myself well enough to know that my joints love oestrogen and it also stabilises my small ear bones too which eases my tinnitus.
Thanks so much again. Much appreciated.
As I mentioned in my first reply to you - Utrogestan has greater effects than other progestogens because it is present in the body at higher doses and has to be because it is unstable. Other synthetic progestogens are taken in minute quantities by comparison - but sadly the most useful one in terms of progesterone intolerance is no longer available separately ( dydrogesterone) and I hope the increasing use of separate oestrogen and progesterone as part of HRT will change this, as it is still available in other countries.
In answer to your next question YES I HAVE MY REGIME ON NHS!!! I feel it is very important to emphasise this because it is not just a question of rigid NHS licensed doses vs private individualisation. Yes I did read that your nurse was a menopause specialist but I still think you might benefit from seeing a doctor who is in a better position to prescribe off-licence. You could also maybe ask for a compromise on 10 days - which is the next level down from 12 as 7 days has been shown to be associated with greater risk of endometrial hyperplasia. It seems unnecessary to pay for a private consultation for the sake of a few days! As I said in my other post - you could also try gradually lengthening the cycle with your nurse's (or doctor's consent - she might be more amenable to this than the 7 day regime?
You might also like to see Dr Currie's comment on the Studd regime on this thread as this topic comes up frequently and as Dancinggirl says (and I am always saying too) it is so important that women do not experiment without medical supervision:
Just to confirm, while Professor Studd is very experienced and extremely knowledgeable, his regimens are not always in line with current recommendations, particularly around use of progesterone.
As always with providing menopause advice, this should be individualised and flexibility should be applied, as long as there is a clear understanding of national and international recommendations. Some women are intolerant of progestogen and progesterone and so it is appropriate to adjust the regimens, as long as it has been fully explained and discussed.
Best wishes
Heather
The other thing is that you said you were fine with other forms of progestogen in the past so this does indicate that you may not be progesterone intolerant - but just don't get on with the sedative and other effects of very high doses - just like many of us in pregnancy!
I know it is the ideal regime in terms of how natural it is but have you thought of something like Femoston - a tablet HRT ( by the way Duavive - also tablet HRT - has oestrogen made from horse urine so important to be aware of that)? However if you get heartburn then maybe tablet oestrogen is not the way to go.
Not sure if Mirena has been mentioned? This might also be a good solution if you tolerated other HRT types when younger? You could then have as much oestrogen as you like and need!
It's great to have this discussion on the open forum because reading about other women's experiences and problems is so helpful to others going through the same dilemmas.
All the best and do ask more questions if you need to - and let us know what you decide.
Hurdity x
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Thank for the clarification Hurdity. I did take Femostan but the effects wore off. I've always felt sick on HRT and my joints have been rubbish but I felt the ups outweighed the downs. Utrogestan has just gone over and above what seems reasonable with shocking tinnitus, dry eyes and this ongoing voice issue. I'll chat to my menopause nurse about a lighter regime (I know 200mg for 12 days is WAY too much for me).
I opted out of the coil as once it's in it's in and is a bit more of a fag to get out of it doesn't agree with you.
My GP is useless with menopause which is why I asked to be referred to the menopause clinic so I'd have to research where to find a good NHS doctor to get me onto s good regime.
I'm happy to keep searching to find a regime that suits me as I intend to live for a long while yet!!
Thanks again for your super help.
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I have been reading this post with interest as I've just been prescribed this combi. Still have quite a few pages to get through yet tho.
Tonight I shall have my first 2 pumps of oestrogel... wish me luck ladies
X
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Hi all
I took utrogestan vaginally last night for the first time. Kind of messy - felt it glooped out a bit - but could probably sort that. But had weird dreams and was very hot. I get mild sweats but I felt hot all over.
Is this a common reaction? Will it pass? I was thinking of taking it orally tonight to see how it goes...
I'm on a week's trial to see how it is...I still have the mirena in. If the utrogestan helps, I'll whip the coil out.
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Hi everyone,
Reposting this message as I created a separate thread when I didn't need to - DOH! Peri gave me some great advice, would welcome others' views too xx
Hi everyone,
It's been about a year since I posted on here. Long journey of trying to get HRT dose right. 46 years old, peri/early meno. Started off on Prof Studd's regime - 3x pumps Estro gel daily, Utro 100mg for 7 days and a daily blob of Testin. After some adverse symptoms and methodical dosage tweaking got to a reasonably good place by reducing Estro to 2 pumps per day but no bleed each month. Found out that Utro dosage was way lower than recommended dosage and so asked GP to refer me to Nick Panay's clinic having read about him on this forum. While waiting for apptmnt I increased Utro to 100mg 12 days per month (having discussed with GP) about six months ago and have had three bleeds, but not every month. Manageable PMS type symptoms returned with this. Meanwhile alongside all of this not sleeping well and not feeling great - but put this down to the stress of launching a new career and business this year. But a few weeks ago I noticed that the sleepness nights were accompanied by night sweats and mild hot flushes during the day. Then the penny dropped - oh no the symptoms are returning :'( Now I advanced into the previous state of hellish sleeplessness and emotional wreakage that I had before HRT. Intially thought maybe I need to increase Estro gel , but having read some older threads on here am wondering if the problem is the increased Utro? Can it build up over time or would you only get the hot flushes and sleeplessness on the days you are taking the Utro? Meanwhile have been seen at Panay's NHS clinic and they want me to increase Utro to the full monty 200mg for 12 days but worried about doing this now. Wish I had realised what was happening with my symptoms before I went to the clinic! Arghh - any advise gratefully received
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Hi becca - I replied on your other thread. Fine to start a new thread and as you see you got a few replies - sometimes it's better to do that (new thread) especially if catchy title will grab attention of those with similar problems :)
Hurdity x
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OK thanks Hurdity - don't use many forums so not always sure on the etiquette x
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Hi Becca
I'm another progesterone intolerant woman! I tried 200mg utrogestan for 12days plus 2mg Sandrena for over a year and came off HRT completely in the end because the side effects were just too much and I found they built up to the point I wasn't getting a break during my oestrogen only weeks. In fact my eyes became so dry (amongst many other symptoms) that my ophthalmologist was talking about an operation to “plug the tear ductsâ€! My eyes returned to normal within two months of being off HRT. Shocking menopause symptoms took me back to the specialist menopause clinic and another trial of utrogestan and estrogel. This time two pumps of estrogel and 100mg utrogestan (I always use it vaginally) every day all month. Within three days I couldn't tolerate my contact lenses and within a week I'd had a total voice loss (another side effect I'd had before). So I'm currently having a fortnight off the utrogestan and continuing with estrogel (1 pump morning and 1 pump evening). I had a very heavy bleed, am feeling much better and now have to decide whether to spend the ££s to see Prof S and try his regime or plead with my NHS menopause specialist nurse to prescribe me a low dose of progesterone and pay for regular uterine scans. It's very tricky if you're bad with progesterone cos it really can seem to build up fast and wear off slowly. Be sure to let us know if you find a regime that works for you.
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I'm curious - do very few women take 100mg utrogestan daily without a break?
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Hi Becca
I'm another progesterone intolerant woman! I tried 200mg utrogestan for 12days plus 2mg Sandrena for over a year and came off HRT completely in the end because the side effects were just too much and I found they built up to the point I wasn't getting a break during my oestrogen only weeks. In fact my eyes became so dry (amongst many other symptoms) that my ophthalmologist was talking about an operation to “plug the tear ductsâ€! My eyes returned to normal within two months of being off HRT. Shocking menopause symptoms took me back to the specialist menopause clinic and another trial of utrogestan and estrogel. This time two pumps of estrogel and 100mg utrogestan (I always use it vaginally) every day all month. Within three days I couldn't tolerate my contact lenses and within a week I'd had a total voice loss (another side effect I'd had before). So I'm currently having a fortnight off the utrogestan and continuing with estrogel (1 pump morning and 1 pump evening). I had a very heavy bleed, am feeling much better and now have to decide whether to spend the ££s to see Prof S and try his regime or plead with my NHS menopause specialist nurse to prescribe me a low dose of progesterone and pay for regular uterine scans. It's very tricky if you're bad with progesterone cos it really can seem to build up fast and wear off slowly. Be sure to let us know if you find a regime that works for you.
So sorry to hear about your rough time with the HRT - sounds awful and lot worse than I am dealing with . I will let you know how I get on with the regime I'm not 100% certain I'm prog intolerant yet - but I do know that I haven't got the HRT balance right. I went to Prof Studd and his regime did really help initially but as I mentioned before I didn't get a bleed, the dose wasn't quite right and I didn't find him or his team very helpful when I came back to them with questions - PM me and I can let you know how they responded when I asked about the recommended dosage levels for utrogestan and told them that I was really worried I wasn't getting a bleed.
Also I found that each visit cost me closer to £1000 with private prescription charges. It's true that you don't have to have the bloods, ultrasound or bone scan, but somehow it doesn't seem voluntary once you're there - but perhaps I'm not assertive enough. Having said all of that of course you must be feeling desperate right now - I know I was when I went to see him and it did make a positive difference to me overall.
Can you get a referral to Nick Panay's clinic at Chelsea and Westminster hosp? I've read some of his research and presentations and he seems open to lower doses of prog. I have just been there and have so far seen the clinical nurse specialist but she did seem aware of the prog intolerance issue plus they will prescribe testin for you. My GP has since agreed to prescribe the estrogel and utro too so it does seem to be possible to get progress, if slow on the NHS. Good luck, I'd like to know how you get on too x
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Total newbie to forums so forgive me if I post this incorrectly but I've read up to page 52 and decided to bite the bullet and put this out there. I'm 48 and in Peri Menopause. Periods used to be every 28 days, these days I skip a month and yet some months I can have 2 very short periods. My GP has prescribed me Utrogestan 100mg on days 1-25 of my cycle and Oestradose Estradiol 2 pumps per day. Does anyone else follow this dosage ? And do I use the gel continuously with no break ? Also because I never know when my next period will occur will it matter when I start taking them ?. Any info will be greatly appreciated x
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Well I have thrown in the towel already and never got to the utrogestan stage. I lasted just over a week on the oestrogel but could feel my mood slipping each day and with already having recurrent anxiety and depression I didn't want to rock the boat. So I've stuck my femseven back on and secured it with transpore tape
X
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Total newbie to forums so forgive me if I post this incorrectly but I've read up to page 52 and decided to bite the bullet and put this out there. I'm 48 and in Peri Menopause. Periods used to be every 28 days, these days I skip a month and yet some months I can have 2 very short periods. My GP has prescribed me Utrogestan 100mg on days 1-25 of my cycle and Oestradose Estradiol 2 pumps per day. Does anyone else follow this dosage ? And do I use the gel continuously with no break ? Also because I never know when my next period will occur will it matter when I start taking them ?. Any info will be greatly appreciated x
Hi Dee1970
:welcomemm:
Yes it's perfectly correct to post there but - sorry your post got missed! Sometimes when new members post on existing threads we don't always look at everything. You might want to post again in the new members section so that more members will welcome you - but hopefully you will see this post of mine?
That's amazing that you read all through this thread!!
To answer your questions - yes you use the gel every day without a break. Your doctor has prescribed the dose of utrogestan which is really meant for women who are post-menopausal - as it is more or less a continuous combined regime - although the 3 day break will enable a bleed to take place. However if you are still pretty early in peri-menopause you may well get bleeding at the "wrong" time as your own cycle kicks in? Is there any particular reason ( eg heavy bleeding?) that your doctor prescribed utrogestan on this basis? The usual dose for peri-menopause is 200 mg x 12 days. The only thing you can do is to try it and see? If you are happy on the utro and bleeding becomes regular then it may well be ideal!
As for when to start - this can be tricky if you don't know when your next period is going to be. Can you wait until the next one is due perhaps? The problem can be getting out of sync but on the 25/28 day Utro regime you may well be out of sync anyway.....
Sorry if this doesn't sound helpful but maybe just take the plunge and see how you get on!
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity, thanks for the reply. I asked my GP for Bio Hrt as I was told that I was in Peri Menopause over a year ago and basically felt so low that I needed to try something to give me some kind of normality back.
My periods have been heavy in the past and the GP suspected fibroids, had a hysteroscopy which came back totally clear and was told my lining is normal.
I have no idea when my next period will be as it could be tomorrow, next week, next month or any second now, my last one was over 2 months ago. The periods don't bother me at all compared to all the other craziness that goes on, brain fog, irritable and feeling miserable to name a few. I've jumped in already taking them and will see how I get on for the next 3 months but maybe I will ring and ask her about the length of cycle. Dee x
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Ok - let us know how you get on and hope it works for you?
Hurdity x
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Well I have thrown in the towel already and never got to the utrogestan stage. I lasted just over a week on the oestrogel but could feel my mood slipping each day and with already having recurrent anxiety and depression I didn't want to rock the boat. So I've stuck my femseven back on and secured it with transpore tape
X
Hi Nasil41
Sorry to hear the oestrogel didn't seem to suit you. Maybe it's because you are at the peri-menopausal stage still and your own hormonal cycle is coming into play, or perhaps the dose was too high (I don't know what this feels like though...)? I hope you feel better back on the Femseven - do you feel this one suited you better? The only thing to be careful of with using tape, is to make sure the patch underneath the tape is still stuck well - sometimes it might be difficult to make sure of this if you see what I mean?
Anyway good luck and keep us posted :)
Hurdity x
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Just bumping this as I hope to be joining next week after doctors appointment x
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Have been prescribed 2 pumps oestrogel and 200mg utrogestan days 15-26 by my doctor today.
I haven't been on anything since my last femseven became unstuck last week. I would of been due to start my phase 2 patch on Friday so should I start my utrogestan then or count 15 day from now? X
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Hi Hope Alone. I find it hard enough to remember my own name since the menopause, let alone which dates to take the utrogestan so I keep things easy-peasy and take it from the 1st to 12th every month irrespective of how many days in a month. All yours trying to do is ensure a good shedding of the endometrium and so a couple of days here or there makes no difference. So if I were in your shoes I'd wait til 1st December and then start. See what others say ...
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Hi Rachel
That sounds good to me it would give me more time to get established on the oestrogel. I didn't think to ask doctor about it.
How are you finding it ? Are you on oestrogel too ? X
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I am prescribed two or three pumps a day of oestrogel plus 100mg daily utrogestan. However, I'm rough with the progesterone part of HRT and so have gone back to 200mg utrogestan days 1-12 but might request even less as my joint pains, tinnitus and low mood get so bad within days of starting it.
Everyone is so different though - my best friend loves progesterone and feels terrible with oestrogen!
All you can do is get started and see how it is for you. Good luck.
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Have been prescribed 2 pumps oestrogel and 200mg utrogestan days 15-26 by my doctor today.
I haven't been on anything since my last femseven became unstuck last week. I would of been due to start my phase 2 patch on Friday so should I start my utrogestan then or count 15 day from now? X
Personally I would start from then, on the progestogen phase as planned - well actually a couple of days later as utrogestan is only taken for 12 days.
In terms of when to take it generally - I would say that it depends on where you are in menopause and how sensitive you are to progesterone. If you are very early peri and having fairly regular periods, it makes sense to tie the progesterone in with your own cycle - so if that's 28 days then take it accordingly. However of course, cycles become sporadic during peri-menopause so the further you are towards menopause then the less you will be able to tie in with your own cycle - and in this case the 1st of the month regime is just as good.
Also if you are progesterone intolerant to some degree or if it has a sedative effect then better also to try to tie it in with your own cycle otherwise you could end up taking it immediately following your own progesterone production and end up feeling rough for longer.
If you are post-menopausal also then 1st of the month is also fine - it doesn't matter when you take it. As my cycle is longer than a month - so for me in practice I adjust when I take it to fit in with what I'm doing in my life - to avoid times when I'm going away, Christmas etc!
In terms of protecting the endometrium then as you say as long as it protects the endometrium then that's great and yes I agree rachel FD you need to work out how you tolerate it too HopeAlone - as rachel FD says some women love it ::)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity
I think I'm still early peri as I had only missed 1 period when blood test confirmed it. I have been having other symptoms however over the past few years but didn't realise it could be connected. Mainly anxiety, depression, sweating and aching joints to name but a few and was put on ADs by doctor which helped a bit. I'm hoping as I had no problems with pms or pnd and used contraception with no issues that I get on with the utrogestan.
Have now had 2 doses of oestrogel and I feel so very tired, still anxious but feel like I could sleep on a washing line. Don't know if it's connected or not x
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The estrogel should not make you feel tired - more the opposite! It is the uplifting hormone! HRT is a long term thing and in early peri your own cycle will still be strong - but adding the oestrogen should help with the worst of the mood dips which might occur at the end of the cycle. Hopefully you will do OK on the utro - but from what you say I would try to tie it in with your cycle if you can so that your bleeding will hopefully come all at once at the end of the utro and when your own progesterone falls too.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
I've downloaded a period tracker on my phone and input the dates of my last proper period before starting hrt so I will use that as the guide. Going by that day 15 in my old cycle will be the 27th of this month.
Maybe as I've been so tense the last couple of years the gel is relaxing me and could be a good sign. I'm grasping at straws here lol x
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I took my first dose of utrogestan last night and if it's supposed to act as a sedative it had the opposite effect on me.
I hardly slept tossed and turned all night !
Do you think I need more oestrogel? I initially started on 1 pump for first 2 days then increased to 2 on Thursday so I know it's very very early days I just don't know what my body needs
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Hi HopeAlone
As you say yourself, it is really early days. It takes a while for the hormones to build up to the right level and for you to feel balanced so I'd be inclined to stick with the doses you've been prescribed for a couple of months before tinkering. I have always gone back to my specialist menopause nurse whenever I've wanted to change the doses so that I know I'm being properly advised and monitored.
The progesterone does seem to build up and I suspect you'll start to feel that before long. Increasing the oestrogel might just make you feel more edgy and alert.
If you feel that the doses are not right for you, go back to your specialist and tell them.
Kept us posted.
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Thanks Rachel, I think I just go into panic mode. So you think as the days go on the utro will build up and help me sleep ? Makes sense now I think about it. I was just expecting to be really tired after my first one. I need to be more patient and won't alter any dose until I next see doctor. Thank you x
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Hello ladies,
i am on sandrena 0.5mg gel and utrogestan 100mg for 12 days 15 to 26 taken v route , my doctor knows nothing about hrt and just prescribed what i asked for although she said utrogestan should be 200 mg and taken orally but having read the many posts re utrogestan and all the side effects it seems to have i was of the thinking if i take v route i can lower the dose and avoid these also as only peri menopausal i thought i would start off on a low dose .
I am on my second month of this regime and i know early days but the bloating aspect of it is really getting me down , the first month it was mainly the later half when i was taking the utrogestan but this month ( i am on day 12 )so not started the utrogestan yet and i have had bloating or wind in some capacity every day. Some days it is so severe i can hardly eat it feels like no room or if i do eat usually at main meal in the evening i am in pain with trapped wind after . some days i start off ok and get the bloating in the evening i am living on windeze tablets . I thought taking hrt transdermally it would not effect my digestion ?
Please could you advise
will this settle down and is it just my digestion getting used to new hormones
Does both estrogen and progesterone cause bloating and wind
Does all HRT cause bloating could another regime be better
Could it be the ratio is wrong as i am only guessing dosage by reading this forum ( also i must have some hormones of my own as was still having regular bleeding before hrt )
I would be so grateful if anyone else has had this early days or any advice you can give me i really dont want to give up,
I really want this HRT regime to work as i know it is the most natural combination but if i look 6 months pregnant most days i dont know if it is worth it .
A
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As a midwife who worked for some years in a fertility clinic I can tell you that progesterone can cause a LOT of bloating and wind. Certainly does with me.
I can only speak for myself but my specialist menopause nurse has been totally fantastic. She is currently supporting me to go right “off piste†in order to get the balance right for me. Not following the normal NHS regime at all and promising me close follow up and scans to keep me safe whilst I experiment. So I'd really suggest you get yourself a proper menopause specialist you trust and work with them so you can adjust your dose to best suit you and the stage you're at. Good luck.
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Hi hope alone I am afraid that the Utrogestan has that effect on a few of us, I toss and turn and have insomnia for all 12 days I take it it has never had a sedative type effect on me and I have been on it for many many years.
Shelley the oestrogen does not cause me any bloating but the Utrogestan really does yes, wind and bloat is terrible.
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Thanks cassie, slept a bit better last night so I'm hoping the more I take the better I sleep. I wonder if using it vaginaly would make a difference ? It's like a juggling act all these hormones and other meds I need a degree to sort them out !
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I use it vaginally still gives me horrible insomnia and silly dreams. >:(
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HI
Newbie to the board and to HRT. My head is buzzing with questions but I will try to keep it simple. I am 51 and haven't had a period in just over a year. I think I might have had my last one in July 2016 but I took the mini pill in December last year and had a never ending period that started 6 days later (red at first, then brown) and lasted for about 3 weeks after. I stopped the pill by the time it ended. Not sure if you can count this as a period or a withdrawal bleed?
Anyway, key things to mention are that I have a fairly serious medical condition that started a couple of years ago and seems to be linked to menopause and although there is no official position on it, the research seems to suggest it could be caused by the drop in estrogen. Some research has found that estradiol seems to help. Either way, estradiol 1.25mcg a day plus vaginal progesterone at 100mcg per day has been found to be safe for those with my condition.
Having said that, I've suffered histamine intolerance for the last 18 months. I have only just realised, since looking back over my menstrual history, that it started roughly after my periods stopped being regular in July 2016. Despite this serious condition I am supposed to have (debatable...but that's an argument for another day), my main probs are histamine intolerance, hot flushes, insomnia. The latter is a real problem, but I've always had trouble sleeping, especially around the time my period was due.
My symptoms weren't too bad but as mentioned, I thought HRT might help in a number of ways, and I had also developed a patch of melasma on my face during the summer about a fortnight after I started the mini pill again (at that point, I wasn't sure if it had been a year since my last period due to my confusion over the bleed in Nov, so I thought it best to take something). I had no bleed after I stopped. Flushes increased a bit if I remember right but it was summer and I've been putting the increase in flushes down to histamine intolerance, so they could have actually been going on for a while.
In the past, the only combined pill I could take was Logynon because I got breakthrough bleeding with anything else, plus I had a massive fibroid in my early forties that shrunk a bit after I had an arterial embolisation. Around that time, I was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism, which i take levothyroxine for.
Ok, so - to the questions:
I tried a progesterone cream vaginally for a couple of days. I felt tired when using it but it seemed my hot flushes got worse so I didn't sleep any better. Woke up drenched a couple of nights after only a few hours sleep. By that time, I'd done my research on estradiol and realised I could benefit from it in multiple ways. I decided to go to the GP armed with the info I found here (thanks). He prescribed Estrogel and I started on a lower dose of just one pump a day. I am watching for any negative symptoms regarding my condition and my histamine intolerance before I increase to the recommended dose.
Problem is, the flushes have become more frequent and intense and the insomnia has worsened. I know everyone says to persevere and/or increase to the recommended dose. That seems counter intuitive to me but I am willing to try. Before I do that I want to know if it is triggering more flashes and histamine intolerance, is that likely to calm down once I add progesterone?
Second question - doc knew I wanted a vaginal progesterone so gave me clynogel 200mcgs to use for 15 days a month. From what I read, I don't need to take this much for so long if I stay on the low dose of Estrogel. I want to follow Professor Studd's protocol of 7 days @100mcg. Or maybe 10 days if that is recommended. Can I cut the pessaries in half length ways to do this? Can I use it at night?
Do you think Clynogel will be as good as Utrogestan? I would take the latter vaginally for the same amount of time. I am not averse to taking it orally but am mindful of the health/histamine issue. Doc put it on my prescription first by mistake (we got confused about the fact the capsules could be used vaginally, I guess) so I think I can get some ready to start on day 14.
I hope all of the above makes sense and I didn't waffle too much. Thanks in advance for any advice you can share.
Finally, I see Prof Studd talk about taking the progesterone for first 7 days of the cycle. Seeing as I am having no periods so dont know when that is, can I just start taking it now for a week? Will it help with some of the issues I am experiencing? And would you recommend a cyclical dose because I am early meno?
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Hi MizzT
Just wanted to welcome you to the forum although I am not knowledgeable enough about vaginal progesterone to answer your questions. Someone will be along soon who will be able to help I'm sure. I do think that if you have an underlying, serious, medical condition then it may be unwise to experiment with different doses etc. especially if you are on medication.
I've been looking at histamine intolerance too as I realised that most of my skin rashes etc are caused by things on the list!
You will find lots of help and advice on here.
Taz x
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Hi MizzT
:welcomemm:
I too am unable to answer you questions but You really shouldn't alter the dose of progesterone without medical supervision. I am sure someone with more knowledge than me will along with some advice.
Lanzalover x
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Thanks guys. Just to reassure you, the 'serious health condition' is not as scary as I made it sound. I am in touch with my hospital team on a regular basis where we have frequent punch ups about what has caused the issue (seriously, they hate me, lol). I am monitored regularly though and want to get settled on my HRT regime before they check up on me again so they can see if it is having any positive/negative effects. My doc knows less than nothing about this condition so I am not too worried about taking his advice too seriously. He said continuous HRT would be fine because it's over a year since I had a period, prescribed Urtrogestan then changed it to clynogel, but only gave me enough for 15 days. I'm pretty confident he hasn't got a clue what he is doing. As with everything that has happened over the last couple of years, it seems I am pretty much going to have to be responsible for my own health. I think being diagnosed incorrectly with SEVEN different things before they finally decided that one symptom = a serious health condition, makes me a little skeptical. But I am very careful, so please don't worry.
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Hi mizzT you could always send an email question to Dr Currie and as its private tell her what your serious health issue is and ask her the relevant question you need advice with.she's absolutely fabulous at giving the menopause advice we all need.Just a suggestion. I did this and I'm so glad I did as she did me a written reply that I could print off and take to my gp this week as they are also bloody clueless but I'm hoping this particular doctor I'm going to will be an improvement on previous one.good luck x
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Hi - thanks Daisydot.
I probably won't email Dr Currie yet as I doubt she would be comfortable giving me advice because she's not an expert in this field. If I go to my hospital team and ask for advice, they will say they are not experts in reproductive medicine/endocrinology and will refer me back to my GP...who won't do a hormone test because I am over 45... so, yet again, I will have to gather my own information and make my own mind up. This is not my first rodeo, lol. If I could afford to go private I would, but I can't.
If it helps you guys feel better sharing some of your experiences with me, I told the doc at the sexual health clinic about my condition last year and she checked that it was fine for me to take the progesterone only mini pill, which it was.
I'd just like a little guidance on whether it is best at my age/stage of menopause to do a cyclical system and if I can cut the clynogel pessaries in half. Those who have experience of both the pessaries and taking Utrogestan vaginally, could you let me know the pros/cons and which you prefer? And could I start the progesterone whenever I want as I have no periods or do I need to wait until the 14th day since I started Estrogel? If I am on one pump of Estrogel, is 100mcg of progesterone for 7 days enough to start with? Thanks
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MizzT - you need Hurdity to advice you on all this.
It's no good trying to follow Studd's regime without actually seeing him privately, as his protocols are not in line with the NICE guidelines that GPs must follow. Studd will also carry out regular scans to check the womb lining and this is not available on the NHS.
I cannot advice about utrogestan usage as this progesterone gave me more side effects than any other type of progesterone and with 25 years of experience of using HRT, due to premature menopause, I have tried virtually everything going.
It is very important to use enough progesterone each month to ensure the womb lining doesn't build up, which can result in erratic bleeding and potentially increase the risk of womb cancer ( very small risk of cancer though). Utrogestan is not as stable as most other progesterones so not as good at protecting the womb lining.
Many women can't tolerate any progesterone used continuously , so they put up with the bleed that comes with a sequi HRT regime.
I do have to tell you that Utrogestan was the only progesterone that gave me a nasty itchy rash in my face !! I believe this type of rash is listed as a side effect. I assume Clynogel contains the same type of progesterone (micronised progesterone) as Utrogestan?
I would definitely email Dr Currie for advice as you need more secialist advice. DG x
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Thanks DancingGirl
I've done some further research overnight and realised that I need to rethink this whole HRT issue unless and until I can afford to get a proper hormone profile done. There is so much conflicting information out there.
Upon checking my records, I realised there were two times an important test showed an improvement - it was when I'd been on a calcium channel blocker or CCB (something that only works for a few people with my condition - hence why I think this is a symptom of something else). You know what I discovered CCBs do?? They reduce the amount of estradiol in your system by 50%! Something else that might be a good reason to not do anything for fear of doing the wrong thing is I realised suddenly last night that the steady improvement in my health over the last 18 months corresponds with my periods stopping. My histamine intolerance is still a pain but better than it was a year ago. There is so much disagreement about estrogen deficiency vs dominance online but I am starting to wonder if my natural reduction in estrogen, along with the CCBs I have been taking almost constantly for the last year which have further reduced my estrogen levels, are the reason for my improvement?
The guidelines for women with my condition say you can take HRT if you have severe menopause issues. The research shows that estrogen plays a role in developing this condition because women get it more than men, but men have worse disease developments and outcomes, so there is a bit of an estrogen paradox going on. My team have never said a word to me about it, nor tested my hormone levels, so if there is a connection, I found it by my own research and record keeping. This is pretty typical of my experience, I am afraid. I know the NHS can't afford to get to the bottom of every condition someone presents with, so I am not mad at them, but I really have felt like I am only still here today due to my own efforts over the last couple of years.
Thanks for the warning about Utrogestan and Clynogel. I wouldn't even be considering HRT if my skin hadn't turned into a crumpled brown bag seemingly overnight. I would say in the space of 2 months, it went from pretty good for my age to awful. There's a bit of vanity involved, yes...but also a bit of a worry that what was showing on the outside was evidence of something I was lacking on the inside. My flashes were annoying but over pretty quickly and only happened a couple of times a day. I was thinking though, if the mini pill was safe for me, is there any reason not to use a low dose progesterone cream from someone reputable like Wellsprings on my skin, if not internally?
I hope me sharing the above info will reassure you all that I am VERY careful and double/triple check every single thing. Please do feel free to continue to share any info you have with me without any need to fear I will go and do something daft with it ;D Thanks again.
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MizzT, many of us on here have happily and successfully consulted Professor Studd and are doing well on his preferred regime. There are women who don't get on with it for various reasons but they are a minority.
I am severely intolerant to all types of progesterone used in HRT preparations so his 7 day vaginal 100mg Utrogestan regime was a life saver and a life changer for me and made HRT viable because taking more progesterone is completely out of the question in my case - I have regular uterine scans which have all confirmed this dose of progesterone is enough for me. I had previously used patches and pills unsuccessfully so he recommended Oestrogel and the difference was staggering, I felt completely back to normal in a short space of time which I really didn't think was possible.
That is just my personal experience but you are right, you have to gather information and make up your own mind.
Good luck.
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Hi
Ive used oestrogel for a few years, at the beginning it was the original oestrogel pump but now I only get the generic Oestrodose.
Is it my imagination or is this just not as effective? Also thicker in formula, takes lomger to absorb etc.
Just thought I would ask others for their views.
Thanks
Linsey x
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Hi MizzT
I can't comment on your health conditions but as far as oestrogen and HRT are concerned - if your periods are few and far between (in the absence of taking POP) so that you are in late peri-menopause then your oestrogen will be much lower and on a downward trajectory. If you are getting symptoms like flushes and sweats amongst others, then menopause and lack of oestrogen is the likely cause if you are in your 40's and especially over 45 and HRT should alleviate them (after checking for other health conditions that can cause sweats).
I can only echo what the others have said re the licensed dose of progesterone to protect the womb. Progesterone cream is absolutely not recommended in any shape or form anywhere in the world (by the menopause societies), for endometrial protection if taking oestrogen HRT - so no don't use this if using gel otherwise you risk womb lining thickening.
Also I am confused a bit by your info - there is no such product as Clynogel as far as I can make out (but stand to be corrected - although it is not anywhere on the web). Please check the package and let us know what it is so that we can advise you. Also the amounts you quote are a bit different than are normally used - perhaps the units are different. Oestrogen gel is usually given in g for the amount of gel and mg for oestroadiol, but patches in mcg! Progesterone itself in mg so utrogestan is 100 or 200 mg. I can't think what pessaries yours might be?
Hopefully we can help further if you can clarify?
Hurdity x
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Hello ladies,
Estrogen and sweats, utro vag...
Its been a few months since I posted, I started hrt to address some early peri meno and also hormonal aggravated migraines which are chronic.
2 months in, I feel its helping both with some days sympthons and pain free which I'm grateful for. The part that caused me headache twinges was utro. At my last apt, my doc told me to reduce to 10 days per month and if its causing headache, switch to vaginal route. She also told me I could move up to 1.5 mg divigel per day which I've done now for 6 days. Last night was my first time to do utro vaginally and I was 6 days on my new divigel regime, I got a night sweat which up to now only ever arrived a day or two before a period...
Do u think the new route for utro caused it or am I on too much estrogen (am on day 20 of cycle)...
Thanks very much for any inputs or advice, my meno gp not in surgery till next week
Nin xx :)
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Lol - it's cyclogest, not clynogel (making my own drugs up now).
I am not peri. Haven't had a period in over a year. I am 51. I did an original post that listed all this but I've waffled so much since it might have gotten bumped down the thread.
To the person who pm'd me, I am not permitted to send personal messages so can't reply for some reason. Sorry.
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Those who have experience of both the pessaries and taking Utrogestan vaginally, could you let me know the pros/cons and which you prefer?
Hi there MizzT
Sorry have been busy - ah - Cyclogest - now I know what you're talking about! Thought there was some weird new product been released that noone knew about ::)
Anyway - yes I have experience of both. When I first started using progesterone ( as opposed to synthetic prog) about 10 years ago I don't think Utrogestan had been invented - at least not for HRT and my enlightened GP prescribed me Cyclogest to go with oestrogen patches ( because I didn't want synthetic stuff). As there is no guidance on the dosage she prescribed 400 mg for 11 days per month (I was 54 at the time and late peri). This sounds like a lot but as they are waxy pessaries I don't think as much gets to the uterus as with utrogestan so the dosage is higher - but I think too high. It might have been too much but it did the trick. Mine came as 200 mg pessaries so I used to put one up the front and one up the back! I did find I got migraines quite regularly but most usually on withdrawal of the prog until it cleared (like normal pmt), but also if I drank alcohol in the wrong way (have since learnt how I can still enjoy this and stay migraine free!). It certainly kept my lining clear - used to get a small bleed every 4 weeks. Later though once I was well post-meno (aged around 57 or 58) I didn't get a bleed at all so probably I could have extended my cycle on this or reduced the dose. I did also get a bit more foggy headed while taking it (the Cyclogest that is).
I won't bore you with the HRT saga after I changed from Cyclogest - but in 2011 I changed to utrogestan (discovered through this forum - my GP was still prescribing Cyclogest) - again using vaginally 200 mg x 12 days per month and then extended to 6-8 week cycle (doc is OK with this).
I can't say which I prefer really. I think had the dose been lower with the Cyclogest ( ie 200 mg) it would have been better. This product is specifically designed as a pessary/suppository - but is different ie waxy capsule whereas utrogestan is a very small slightly soft squashy ball. I sometimes wonder if the 100 mg capsules do the job as they are so small and more outer coating to dissolve before the prog goo gets into the system?
The main thing is it's better to err on the side of using more than less to start with and under supervision of your doc and then work together to reduce dose or lengthen cycle if your system is OK with this (ie womb lining).
Hopoe this helps :)
Hurdity x
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That's brilliant, Hurdity. Just what I needed. Thanks very much.
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Hi
Just found this oestrogel support group. I've posted this on 'all things menopause' but wonder if anyone in this group has had any adverse reactions to oestrogel?
I only started last week on just 2 pumps (not 3 as prescribed as I wanted to build up slowly). First 2 days no effects, 3rd day I started feeling mild nausea and badly dizzy plus pounding heart for 24 hours. On the 4th day (Saturday) I cut the dose to 1 pump and had the most appalling pounding heart and 'elephant on chest' feeling for 29 hours. Today, I have a serious headache.
I don't feel I can try the oestrogel again as I really can't face feeling I'm about to have a heart attack. It was very pronounced and scary.
Just to add I wasn't feeling anxious or having a panic attack. It was just as though I was shot with adrenaline in a very extreme way.
I note that on side-effects, the info says: if you have a fast, pounding heart, stop and seek medical attention immediately.
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My gynae always suggests starting low and increasing the dose slowly over several weeks to allow the body to adjust. This makes sense to me - hitting things hard with a high dose is bound to give the body a shock. DG x
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How low did you start Dancinggirl? I still had the adverse reaction after just one pump.
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Hello,
I am starting Utrogestan tablets orally tonight after 2 weeks of Estrogel 1 pump.
I am really looking for some support as things have been so very difficult over the past two months.
Basically after starting Evorel Sequi 4 months ago several of my peri symptoms disappeared (low mood, anxiety, dry skin, crashing fatigue and aches). However after 3 months I was signed off work as I started to become really really anxious. I have tried cbt, mindfulness, exercise and eating well. All these things help a little.
I thought it might be my hormones underneath and a reaction to the norehistine part of Evorel Sequi so stopped that two weeks ago.
So here I am with really high levels of anxiety still and loose bowels three times every morning and difficulty staying asleep (I take 40 mg amitriptyline and go to sleep ok but wake up anywhere between 2 am and 5 am). I am also on ad's.
I had blood tests done yesterday in case I have hyperthyroidism and will get the results on Friday.
I have also applied for counselling and am waiting to hear.
I am really hoping some members will hold my hand a bit through this as I have no idea if utrogestan will help me. If it makes me feel sedated then that would probably help at the moment. I presume it can't cause more anxiety?!!! Please tell me it's unlikely to!
I am just trying to get through each day at the moment and would really love to get through this and come out the other side. The gp says I have to give the HRT 6 weeks to see if it is starting to help. That feels a very long way away right now.
Thank you.
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Mindfulmoomins, sorry to hear about your anxiety but don't worry, you will get plenty of support on here!
You will probably find you sleep much better with the Utrogestan, it has a calming effect. You can use it vaginally if you like, it does have fewer side effects when used that way and it also works better for lining clearance.
If you don't start to feel better soon, you might need to increase your dose of Oestrogel. One pump sounds a bit low and not enough if you suffer with hormonal depression and anxiety.
You might want to read some of Gypsy Rose Lee's posts, she suffered from hormonal anxiety and depression and is now doing extremely well on 4 pumps of Oestrogel and Utrogestan together with ADs.
Hope that helps.
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Thank you very much Mary G.
I have sent a pm to gypseyroselee and read some of her posts. It is good to know there might be someone with a similar story.
The GP and Dr Currie (in an email I paid for) both said more Estrogel might help. I am not sure how much more though. Neither specified. Do you think increasing to two pumps is the next sensible step? Then after a week add another pump if things are no better?
Thank you.
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Hi Mindfulmoomins - it's always best to increase oestrogen slowly so that you can reach the level at which you feel better without the side effects of too much. Depending on how you absorb it I know some women use 1.5 pumps. Also some women increase their oestrogen when on the progesterone phase of HRT which for some women can alleviate some of the side effects of the prog (but not everyone gets them!).
I wonder also if taking that mix of meds might somehow interfere with how you are feeling and be giving you some of the symptoms. What are you taking the Amitryp for (if you don't mind my asking)? if you are taking this and ADs could these be affecting your bowels?
If you took a really high dose like GypsyRoseLee then it would most probably suppress your cycle ( that is why these high doses are given) and then would prevent your mood swings that were due to hormones anyway. This might well be an option long term.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity,
As I start the ultrogestan tonight I will try 2 pumps Estrogel which will be easier than trying to do a pump and a half I think.
The loose bowels (can't believe I am discussing this - sorry!) has been going on for about 6/8 weeks and the amitriptyline was supposed to help with that and sleep. It did for a bit. The anxiety/adrenaline/heart thumping has remained no matter what I try. Meditation and distraction help to some extent.
Really hard to know what is what. I don't think the mix of meds is ideal but the Gp said lots of patients are on ad's and amitriptyline and the amitriptyline is until the HRT starts helping and things are more stable. Then we will review and reduce it.
The Gp has also suggested taking a sleeping tablet if I wake up in the early hours tonight. Really would rather not but felt really quite desperate this morning so might do in the hope of getting one good night.
Fingers crossed I sleep better tonight. I have always been able to sleep anywhere and LOVE my sleep so this is all very new to me.
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Hi everyone,
I did sleep better but took a sleeping tablet at 3 am (a soggy one after knocking my pint of water all over it trying to find it in the dark). I think the progesterone was sedating so I hope that helps tonight.
I have had a bit of light spotting today. Is that normal when starting utrogestan?
I know I could do a search but when I do I end up reading loads of posts and when I experience anxiety that's not a great idea.
Kind wishes.
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Hello again,
I have yet another question. I have seen threads of here where quite complex looking blood tests results are discussed where everything from cortisol to various thyroid reasults and oestrogen levels are shown. Are these only available privately or through specialty menopause clinics?
Thank you in advance!
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Hi Mindfulmoomins - maybe best to start a new post about the blood tests as it might get lost amongst this very specific thread? As far as I know most of those sorts of tests are only available privately. The thyroid test usually done initially on NHS is TSH and some I think also do T4. It is only once you have been diagnosed that more in depth thyroid tests are done (especially if a patient is under the care of or has been referred to an endocrinologist) and even so not all. Defo ask on a new thread about this one. Cortisol I don't think is done - probably only if there is impaired adrenal function is suspected - but you would need to ask. Also oestrogen levels are not necessarily measured - only under certain circumstances - as these aren't really necessary for "normal" menopause.
Not sure about the spotting - it probably was going to happen anyway?
I didn't know amitryp was also a bowel medication - I thought it was for nerve pain mainly? I gather it is prescribed for many reasons ( judging by reports on here ) - and that's a new one on me! I was prescribed it for vulval/urethral pain but I didn't take it!
I hope you sleep better.... :)
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity,
I will re-post this elsewhere.
Thanks also for all the info.
I didn't know about amitriptyline for bowels either. Not sure it's been effective for that anyway in my case! It seems to be used in low doses for all sorts of things doesn't it?!
X
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Hi everyone,
Can I ask if people split their Estrogel dose?
The specialist I saw prescribed 3 pumps and as I keep waking up in the night (have been for a few months) I am wondering whether it's sensible to do one pump at night and two in the morning.
I am seeing GP today so can ask but any thoughts would e appreciated.
Thank you.
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I split my Oestrogel dose by doing one pump in the morning and one pump at night and it works very well. I also split the location by doing on the upper outer arms and one on the upper inner thighs which has worked wonders for my minor VA.
Definitely worth a try!
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It's also important to remember to avoid skin to skin contact with (male) partner or pet for minimum 1 hour after application, to prevent transference - so where on your body you apply it might also have a bearing on the timing (or vice versa!).
Hurdity x
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Great, thank you x
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Hello again,
I seem to be sleeping better with my new regime of 3 pumps of Estrogel and 200mg ultragestan orally days 15-26. I take both in the evening before bed.
Last night I felt a bit dizzy and still feel a bit off balance this morning. It could be something else of course but I notice it is a (rare I think) side effect of ultragestan.
I have taken 7 ultragestan doses so far.
I am worried that the next 5 doses might increase the dizzyfeeling and wipe out Christmas.
Both my GP and Menopause specialist said to take it orally.
If the dizziness persists shall I email the specialist?
Has a phone had a similar experience and better luck taking it vaginally?
Thanks.
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Mindfulmoomins, why do they want you to only take it orally? It doesn't make sense. There is no reason why you can't take it vaginally, it works better at lining clearance when used that way and has fewer side effects. It usually means you can take less of it too because it is more localised.
I would try it vaginally tonight and see if it makes a difference.
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Hi Mary,
I think it's because it's not licensed to take vaginally here nor the US. I have emailed the consultant but might try it vaginally tonight.
Don't want to go against their suggestions without their approval really.
Thanks.
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Its not licenced for HRT use vaginally anywhere but in my humble opinion, its the only way to get the best effect from it and the least side effects. :-\
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Thanks Cassie,
I am definitely dizzy today and it feels a bit like pmt dizziness or almost like a cold is coming (also a symptom of pmt for me at times). Also feel sleepy.
I am going to try the vaginal route tonight. I have a copper coil - is that ok? Also do you literally just put it up as far as you can?
Haven't heard back from menopause specialist yet. Thank you.
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Mindfulmoomins - "Has a phone had similar experience" ;D !!! Love the phone typos!!
Just to clarify - Utrogestan is used vaginally or orally on the continent and is licensed for this purpose through whatever procedures they have in some of these countries. When I first started to use it 6 years ago I wrote to the manufacturers about vaginal usage and they sent me a translation of the French SPC (Summary of Product Characteristics) they provide, which gives vaginal use as an alternative to oral use if side effects are severe with oral use.
Here is an extract (these were written in 2003):
4.8 Undesirable effects
Oral route
- Drowsiness or transient sensation of vertigo occurring 1 to 3 hours after ingestion of the product.
In this case,
+ Reduce the dosage per dose,
+ or change the dosing schedule (for example, for a dosage of 200 mg/day, take the 200 mg in the evening on an empty stomach before going to bed) ;
+ or use the vaginal route.
The other important point is that the (licensed) dosage was listed as exactly the same for vaginal as for oral so the reduced dosage for vaginal use is probably not licensed anywhere ( unless the French SPC have since changed) but based on the results of some preliminary research studies. I presume the reason it's not licensed for vaginal use elsewhere is that the trials were not sufficiently large or extensive - which is very frustrating - but most knowledgeable gynaes are aware of this research and therefore allow reduced dosage for vaginal use.
Yes you just poke 'em up as far as you can at night ::) .
No idea about the coil but I doubt it impedes the diffusion of the utrogestan? Something else to ask Dr Currie although you are supposed to aks one question - I'm sure that can be included though!
I never feel dizzy - but just very tired and I expect that - I mean if that's the only side effect we can be thankful! I get foggy-headed and now and again a migraine but mostly just heavy tiredness.
I hope this helps and your side effects lessen soon :)
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity, that's brilliant.
Yes phones may have similar experiences using the vaginal route! 😉
Really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. Going to try the V route tonight.
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Hi everyone,
Just looking for a bit of reassurance.
I have been feeling a bit brighter and as though my thinking is a little more ‘me'. I am still experiencing some anxiety and a pounding heart when I wake in the night and at other times.
I am sooooo grateful for feeling a bit better than last week however.
I have only been on Estrogel three pumps for a week. Before this I was on 1 pump. My specialist said it will take 2-3months for my symptoms be resolved by the increase in Estrogel.
I am hoping the Estrogel will build up and the effects will be incremental. Can anyone share their experience of this?
I guess I am hoping that things will get better (anxiety wise) in the coming weeks even if there are dips. I am staying positive but this is quite a journey.
Thank you.
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Also, to add to my last post I am on day 10 of ultragestan 200 mg (took it orally at first for 8 days then vaginally thanks to the suggestions on here).
I am supposed to take it for 12 days but gather 10 days is also often prescribed?
If I stop the ultragestan today and carry on with the 3 pumps of Estrogel what is likely to happen in the coming days? I gather I will get a withdrawal bleed? Will I get PMT also? Would really like to enjoy Christmas as much as possible but hormones seem to influence me quite a lot!
Thanks.
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Hi Mindfulmoomins
I would start with the licensed dose if you can tolerate the utrogestan vaginally and see what sort of a bleed you get. Also if you are feeling more or less OK I wouldn't risk stopping after 10 days now because the day after your missed dose and for a couple of days you may get some pms and your bleed may start so maybe hang on for another couple of days (depends also to some extent what your own cycle is doing...). If Day 10 is tonight that Day 12 will be Christmas Eve so Boxing Day will be your first missed dose - and if your own cycle hasn't kicked in and you are still feeling OK then take it an extra day if you want to feel OK on Boxing Day. Go easy on the alcohol especially later in the evening as it (prog) can sometimes trigger headaches at much lower amounts ( of alcohol) than when we were younger. All the best!
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity,
Can I ask one more thing? Might the increased estrogel I'm on help minimise pmt?
I think I'll stick to the 12 days as it's my birthday on the 30th.
I am sort of feeling ok but quite anxious about what it will feel like to stop the ultragestan.
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Hi there - Yes that may well help a lot! However there is still the progesterone withdrawal which causes a reversal of the physiological changes it effects on the body and this is part of pms (for some women) as well as reduced oestrogen in the normal menstrual cycle. Actually lately I have been minimising it - the withdrawal symptoms (thanks to the 100 mg dose and those confounded little balls!) but spreading the last 200 mg dose over two days to give 2 x 100 mg which makes the withdrawal less abrupt. One the prog has gone I'm fine even with the bleed. I can't say in your case whether this will bring on a slightly earlier bleed ( because you have lowered the prog dose) but in my case it doesn't because I am on a much lower oestrogen dose than you and have never had a bleed before stopping the prog. Good luck with it all and try not to worry nor expect problems - just go with the flow ( ::) literally) and enjoy Christmas and your birthday :)
In haste!
Hurdity x
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Hi ladies,
I've only just picked up on this thread.
I use Utrogestan 200 for 12 days, evorel 50 patch. I suffer from anxiety which is high at the moment.
Can any one say what is best hell or patch? I'm interested to know, I get many side effects but I don't know if they are from the oestrogen or the progesterone?
Thanks
Shellb
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Definitely gel for me. I found patches didn't stick properly, I didn't get anything like enough oestrogen out of them and I didn't like having to wear the thing either. I also like the flexibility of the gel.
Why not give it a try.
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Thanks Mary G,
I am thinking about it, just a little concerned about side effects and symptoms changing as I am very sensitive that way. I do get get up of having to scrub off the left over adhesive from the patch and always get red marks where they have been. Can you use the gel as and when needed? What I mean is can you alter the dose accordingly?
Thanks
Shellb
xXx
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I hated those black marks and to be honest, the thought of having to wear a patch on my backside for the rest of my life filled me with horror!
The gel is very dose flexible and it kicks in very quickly when you adjust the dose. Two pumps of gel is roughly the equivalent of a 50mcg patch. I split the dose by doing one pump in the morning and one in the evening to keep the level constant.
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Hi all
just wanted to introduce myself in this thread as I have just recently started Oestrogel and Utrogestan!
I am 48 years old, my last period was in September 2016 (so 1 year and 3 months ago), I am hypothyroid with a different type of hypothyroidism from mainstream....I am 'resistant to thyroid hormones at cellular level', so therefore I need very high doses of T3 (liothyronine) and NOT T4 (levo) to keep me healthy.
I have been since 2012 on 180mcg T3 daily, I take this at once when I wake in the morning.
I eat a 'zero carb diet' since 2015 (so over 2 years now, I was paleo before that), so I eat only meat/eggs/cheese.
this diet has been the best 'for me' and I have stable low blood sugars (ie between 3 and 5 mmol/L), have eliminated my carpal tunnel, eliminated food sensitivities, maintain low insulin levels/repaired insulin sensitivity, perfect cholesterol ratios, good vitamin D etc....
I have been on testosterone gel since a year ago, this has helped tremendously with libido, muscle mass, energy levels, I take 10mg daily (so 1/5 of sachet) and this has not given me any negative side effects plus keeps my free testosterone in the top of the normal range for a female. My 'total' testosterone is high but this is not the one to look at as I have an extremely high SHBG due to my T3 dosage and as you may know a high SHBG inhibits the testosterone and it is the 'free' testosterone circulating which will give you its effects.
Anyway, my Oestrogen has been very low, my latest blood test just at the beginning of December was <18 pmol/L
The only symptom I had from the menopause was VA, I got very suddenly and quickly very dry down below, at first with extreme itching, I thought I had thrush...but was negative for this.
I was reluctant to go on HRT at the time as I had no other symptoms and tried to address the VA more 'naturally'. After some research I found out about 'home made' DHEA vaginal suppositories, so I have been doing these for year...I just melt some coconut oil, then in its melted state I fill in a 'baby bottle teat' with coconut oil, add the powder contents from a 10mg DHEA capsule, mix it with a toothpick into the melted coconut oil (2mls) in the silicone teat, then put it in freezer upright (into a small container) to freeze. Once I need the suppository I just take it out of freezer, squeeze it out of the silicone teat and it is a small sized suppository which I insert high vaginally as I lie in bed. This will melt and some will leak out but I lie down for 30 minutes then if I get up and if any more escapes (which normally does) I let it.
At first I was doing these suppositories every day for a week, then went onto 3 times a week and now been maintaining with very irregular 1 to 2 a week suppositories. This plus using coconut oil as lubricant rather than KY or other things, has worked very well for me. (oh yes, I tried Replens prior to the coconut oil/DHEA but this gave me the 'toilet tissue remnants syndrome' which was quite 'gross' so stopped it).
Anyway...sorry to keep you.... LOL
I go to see my endocrinologist once a year and I have been having regular DEXA scans in past. My DEXA has always been in 'osteopenia' range, however my latest this November has gone into outright Osteoporosis, probably because of the menopause (and I am only 48).
So my endo suggested HRT (as I am not in favour for alendronate etc), I said to him 'I'll think about it'..came home and did some research and found out about the Oestrogel/Utrogestan HRT which is bioidentical. This I don't mind trying I thought to myself....
So I went to my GP and asked him to prescribe it and he said 'sure, I never have prescribed it but if that's what you want no problem' and off I went with a prescription for Oestrogel and Utrogestan.
I started just a week ago on 2 pumps daily and 100 Utro orally every day (continuous as I don't fancy having periods again).
Years ago I was on depoprovera for contraception so as I had no side effects to that I am hoping I will have none on Utro...we will see.
I am due to up my Oestrogel slowly up to 4 pumps per day, there is small limited studies on Oestrogel dosage and treatment of Osteoporosis but what I found was that on the 4 pumps a day regime the improvement in bone density was a little better than on 2 pumps, although the 2 pumps gave a good result too and is a good dosage for osteoporosis treatment.
We agreed with GP that I would go up to 4 a day and that if I ever have any untoward symptoms we would look at reducing it. The GP is not interested in doing any blood tests but I get them done privately (and I test my free testosterone and SHBG privately) so I will check my oestradiol, testosterone, SHBG and free testosterone at 1 month and 3 months post HRT initiation to see how I am going. I am also interested to see if the addition of oestrogel will mean I need less testosterone gel but we will see.
so yes...here I am a new 'recruit'
PS I will try vagifem now (GP prescribed it) just because then I don't have to produce home made suppositories anymore :D LOL
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Hi nobodysdriving, you certainly know your body well and look like you research widely.
I do too for my autoimmune stuff and bone issues.
Well done an endo brave enough to allow hrt as first line treatment.
I have had to battle to get hrt as opposed to bisphosphonates, I have osteopaenia still, well did last year, at 55. But I have fractures.
I interested in the fact that you say oestrogen/utrogestan is bio identical. Do you have the exact names and doses so I can tell my GP as I'm wanting to change.
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Hi nobodysdriving, you certainly know your body well and look like you research widely.
I do too for my autoimmune stuff and bone issues.
Well done an endo brave enough to allow hrt as first line treatment.
I have had to battle to get hrt as opposed to bisphosphonates, I have osteopaenia still, well did last year, at 55. But I have fractures.
I interested in the fact that you say oestrogen/utrogestan is bio identical. Do you have the exact names and doses so I can tell my GP as I'm wanting to change.
Hello Sarai,
thank you for your reply.
when you ask for the 'exact names' do you mean the actual drug names? if it is that you mean then they are indeed 'Oestrogel' and 'Utrogestan'
here are the links to PIL (patient information leaflets):
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/19895#FORM (https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/19895#FORM)
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/353 (https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/353)
they are not expensive to the NHS so I would imagine your GP will not mind prescribing it, he/she may say like my GP that they are not 'conversant' with it, but still....my GP was not afraid of prescribing it, he was very happy to oblige :)
the Utrogestan progesterone is 'micronised progesterone' as you will see from the leaflet.
and well done for winning the battle of HRT vs bisphosphonates :D
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Nobodysdriving thanks it was a hard battle and I don't expect it to end, every dr I see apart from GP who's given wants me on the meds.
Can you tell me if you know is it oestrogen or progesterone that causes anxiety and the big sore boobs?
I'm still with the Evorel conti 50 until I get to the GP but wasn't anxious until I went on the hrt and the boob thing is recent after 8 months on it. Frankly I'm going to struggle to cope the the pregnant boobs for years to come as with my back issues it's very difficult.
I'm just struggling to find information and I never really took any notice over the years f why my body did what it did.
I have to get this right as my hrt plan is long term to keep my bones at least at the level they are which is osteopaenia.
Thanks for reading.
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I haven't read all 88 pages of this thread so I apologise if this has been covered. Today I stumbled across a really useful website which covers the issues of gel application. It answered a lot of my questions and I hope it can help someone else.
http://surmeno.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/gel
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Hi aspie65
Thanks for this link - very helpful! I'm sure lots of women who use gel and have questions about it will find this useful.
Hurdity x
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i have been on utrogestan/estrogel for 3 years, two pumps of estrogel, tried different doses of utrogestan because of side effects and settled for 10 days of 100mg (vaginally), which is enough to bring about some light bleeding and keep my womb lining within the safe limit.
All is relatively well, no vaginal dryness, no insomnia, no hot flushes, just some constipation and low mood. BUT in the last 6 months i noticed that my hair is thinning, i lose a lot more hair than i ever did, and my skin is also thinning, getting very dry, losing elasticity, i can see new wrinkles around my eyes. My eyes are also extremely dry and need to use eye drops.
Of course, this is part of the natural process of aging, but i wonder if hair and skin could be improved by adding more estrogen.
Has anybody noticed positive changes by increasing estrogel?
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foreign body, it could be that your own oestrogen levels have dropped further or bottomed out and you need more oestrogen now. The symptoms you mention do suggest low oestrogen.
It would be worth having a blood test to see how much oestrogen you are absorbing. I suspect your levels might be low if you are only getting a light bleed on 2 pumps of gel but I might be wrong of course.
Getting the right dose of oestrogen is difficult and for a long time I found myself in a kind of halfway house where I was relieving most of the symptoms but not firing on all cylinders and not feeling as good as I should. You might find that 1 more pump of gel makes a real difference.
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Hi foreign body - the thing is it is not realistic for us to maintain the same levels of oestrogen we have during our fertile years so once post-menopausal, if we still have a uterus - then it's a question of balancing trying to have as high level of oestrogen as we can to feel good - but not too high so that we need to take more prog. Therein lies the dilemma we all face. Two years or so post-menopause our endogenous (internal) oestrogen levels should have stabilised so we rely on exogenous sources ( from HRT) - but I'm not sure this will be sufficient to prevent those changes you mention ie loss of hair, skin elasticity etc. There is also the problem of testosterone deficiency and tesosterone levels do play an important role in our hair - but I don't understand this fully (if anyone does?). Ditto thyroid function - had an effect on hair and skin (but there would be other symptoms if thyroid function was declining - weight gain, feeling cold, fatigue). Testosterone levels also can affect mood. So it's not that simple really! I don't think testing oestrogen levels will necessarily help because of all these other factors. However by all means consider increasing the gel with the OK from your doc - but this may also mean a higher dose of prog - as the downside! Sorry if this sounds gloomy!
Hurdity x
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Hello Nobodysdriving,
Thank you for such an informative post.
In addition to early menopause 12 years ago I am hypothyroid and have been struggling with getting my replacement levels somewhere where I feel good. You wrote that you are resistant to Thyroid hormone at the cellular level - if you don't mind, could you explain how you or your endocrinologist figured that out ? I am on Thyroxine 100mcg and think I should be feeling a lot better than I am . I am very interested in exploring T3 replacement rather than T4, so would be grateful for any advice you may have re all of this.
I'm also on 2.5 puffs of Estodose daily.
Thanks !
:)
kkay
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I'm hoping somebody is around. I'm seeing GP re a change in HRT, he is happy about that.
Dr Currie believes my monthly mucky discharge after 9 months on Evorel conti 50 is due to prog not being absorbed.
I prefer to reduce my oestrogen as I'm meant to be on the lowest dose.
So I go for Oestrogel, would 1 pump equate to 25mg ( or whatever it's called)?
I'm going to try a bleed and want the vaginal route. I'm a coward re side effects.
Do I just remove my patch and start the new regime the next day or should I have a gap? Not sure how I'd calculate when day 12 was when I'm on a patch.
#Mary G or anybody who u derstand this stuff. Thank you
I'm also wondering if I only used 1 pump if I would need less progesterone dose or duration?
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Hi dont know what you would do re changing from patch and i hope someone else can help you. I dont have womb and dropped the utrogestan.
I use oestrogel and dr currie told me 2pumps is a med dose. Im only to have low dose so i try to use 1-2 pumps day.
If no one replys maybe you could ask dancing girl or hurdity or taz2 they are more likely to know.
Sorry i cant be of more help
Linseyx
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Sarai, you can just take the patch off and start the Oestrogel immediately, you don't need a gap in fact it would be better not to have a gap because your oestrogen levels will fall. 1 pump of gel is roughly the equivalent of a 25mcg patch but I find that gel absorbs/works much better than patches.
Are you post menopause? If so then yes, you can do a long cycle. I have always stretched my cycle to the limit (5-6 weeks is the most I can go before I get breakthrough bleeding) and use Utrogestan vaginally which works much better for womb lining clearance and has fewer side effects. If you are only using 1 pump of gel, you could probably do an 8 week cycle without breakthrough bleeding.
How are you with progesterone? Do you tolerate it well? I have never adjusted my Utrogestan dose to match the amount of oestrogen I take but some women do. I have always had to keep it to the barest minimum because I am progesterone intolerant so I don't have a choice but I do have regular scans and it has always been enough.
The Utrogestan dose varies. I have never taken more than 100mg for 7 days (as per the Professor Studd regime) but some women take it for 10 or 12 days each month.
I think for you it will be a case of try it and see how you get on.
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Thanks Mary G, slowly a plan is formulating.
I've only been on Evorel and it was suiting me bar the mucky discharge and headaches but they were lifelong anyway. Then after the failed hysteroscopy I felt really bad boobs exploded so painful, no idea why that happened but it really upset my system. My measurement prior was 6.6mm and they wanted 6mm.
I did react to progestergen after pregnancy I had in injection form.
Beyond that I knew nothing about why my cycle did what so no idea what made me feel bad each month.
How do you get an 8 week cycle if prog needs using 12 days a month.
Do you count from day one of Oestrogel? I never had 28 day cycles anyway. Hell I sound so thick.
I can't imagine my GP being able to figure all this out. I want to use prog vaginally too, that will make his hair curl.
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Hi Sarai
The first thing is that it is impossible to say what dose of patch will equate to what dose of gel - for you specifically, because women vary so much in how much oestrogen they absorb from the different methods. The approximate doses are based on average values for populations of women tested - and are given as low medium and high. Yes 1 pump of oestrogen gel is a low dose as is 25 mcg patch but if you are trying to REDUCE YOUR oestrogen dose rather than INCREASE I would suggest it is better to stick (!) with the method of delivery you are accustomed to because only that way will you know that you are giving yourself the decreased dose you seek. Ideally you would stay with Evorel but Estradot actually comes in 37.5 mcg doses so you could give yourself a small reduction and see how you got on perhaps and later reduce to 25 mcg if you wanted to reduce further (although there have been supply problems with Estradot!). In your position (re osteoporosis) I would want to take the highest dose I could tolerate (up to the licensed dose to help protect against osteo.. of 50 mcg).
Secondly if you are on continuous combined HRT - and are postmenopausal - you can start a cycle at any time and the first day of oestrogen only will count as Day 1 (although in a normal menstrual cycle Day 1 = the first day of the bleed) and then take it from there.
Mary G suggested a longer cycle - which is what I also suggest to some women, under medical supervision - especially if you are on a low dose oestrogen. This is what I do and it works well for me - post-menopausal and in my 60's. There are several unknowns for you here - how you will react to Utrogestan and how you will react by using it vaginally. Using it vaginally research shows that more will get into your system than used orally and there should be fewer sdie effects, so ultimately a lower dose may be needed. It might not be such a good idea to start with a reduced progesterone dose as well as a longer cycle. Better to start with a bit more than you need - to keep the lining thin, see what bleed you get - and if necessary either reduce the dose or lengthen the cycle or maybe both - but this must be done under medical supervision.
Just to emphasise that the NORMAL LICENSED dose of Utrogestan is 12 days x 200 mg orally per 28 days which is the starting point for any regime and for discussion about reduction. Varying this is likely to be the exception - but we hear about it more on here probably because women come on to the forum with problems! The 7 day 100 mg progesterone Studd regime for even high doses of oestrogen is the other extreme - very low and associated with increased risks of endometrial hyperplasia.
I can't imagine your ordinary GP sorting this out so best to inform yourself and tell him! You could suggest that you start a monthly regime using 100 mg Utrogestan vaginally for 12 days - if your oestrogen dose is reduced to 37.5 mcg - and see what sort of a bleed you get over the next 3 months - and then take it from there.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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thanks Mary G. and Hurdity for your reply.
I have only scant bleeding with my regime, and not even every month. Hence my conclusion that i might need to increase the estrogen dose. I did try to add testosterone (androfeme) a couple of years ago but had to suspend it after 6 months due to its side effects (severe acne, hair thinning, sex libido that was out of control). We are all different and that's what makes finding the right dosage and combination of hormones so difficult. I am very thin, with little body fat, so maybe i don't absorb estrogen well. I settled on 10 days of utrogestan (100mg) because i i take it for longer, the side effects become unmanageable (slow digestion, bloating, constipation, headaches, acne, insomnia)
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Thanks Hurdity for that comprehensive reply. I am going to ask for estrodot patch 25 as I know it's the lowest. And see if the GP can cope with 100mg utrogestan for 12 days. Vaginally lol.
I'm worried because I never got a second hysteroscopy due to nhs changing dates and Drs. So in my head I still have the knowledge of a 6.6mm lining, which luckily Dr Currie said wasn't worrying. And the spotting which true to form came back exactly a month after the failed hysteroscopy, so like you said I clearly have a cycle back.
Assuming I get a bleed off the new regime how do we know if the lining has gone down? Do we need regular scans?
I'm seeing the gynae in March but not sure how it will go as he didn't approve of me being on hrt at all, but my rheumy agreed it.
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Sarai - you won't know if your lining has gone down or not - but as HC says that was not particuarly thick. You are more likely to shed it on a cyclical regime if it slightly thickened on the conti one, but if you have unpredictable bleeding at any time - and you are post-menopausal - then this could indicate a thickened lining.
For instance I am on a 6-8 week cycle and I have never had any bleeding other than after withdrawal of the prog (exceot one year after intimacy but that wasn't due to thick lining) so I can safely assume my lining is fine - especially as my bleeds are not heavy.
You don't need to have regular scans if you are on a low dose oestrogen and the standard dose of progesterone - and that should be sufficient if used vaginally with that dose of oestrogen. Be guided by your bleeds. However if you want to put your mind at rest then no harm in having one once a year, if funds permit. Rememebr if you have a scan the best time to have it is immediately following your bleed otherwise the lining will have started thickening as part of the cyclical process of growth and shedding ( like in our normal menstrual cycles).
Hurdity x
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Hi again foreign body - you don't need to have a heavier bleed as such - as this is only shedding whatever lining has built up over the month. If your usual monthly bleeding is light, then that means it mght be possible to increase your oestrogen dose to see if your general symptoms improve, without needing to increase progesterone too.
Hurdity x
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Hi
Ive used oestrogel for a few years, at the beginning it was the original oestrogel pump but now I only get the generic Oestrodose.
Is it my imagination or is this just not as effective? Also thicker in formula, takes lomger to absorb etc.
Just thought I would ask others for their views.
Thanks
Linsey x
Hi - I realise your post was from a while ago and I'm not sure if you ever got a reply. It appears that Oestrodose is indeed not as effective for a small subset of women. There are a few of us on here who have remarked on it, Tempest and Annie and a few others. I feel the same way as you do. There's a separate thread on this problem, perhaps you've seen that by now.
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Hello I am due to start utrogestan/estrogel in a few days. Trying the estrogel, as after a few false starts with Elleste Duet/Solo and a Femseven patch, it appears that oestrogen is causing me a problem (very intense burning, tingling tongue and lips), although originally we thought it was the progesterone in the combined tablet and patch. I should take the utrogestan 25 days out of a 28 day cycle, but in order to see if the oestrogen really is the problem, was going to delay taking the estrogel without the utrogestan for 7 days to see if symptoms reappear. I have had andomyosis in the past, so concerned about womb thickening. This only occurred to me once I had left the Dr surgery so didn't ask the question at the time. Very nervous about the new combination as if this doesn't work, I'm not sure there are any other options left for me. I hope this makes sense!
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Hi Klay or any other ladies getting oestrodose instead of oestrogel
Iff its any help here is topic /saga as to how i got my hands on the proper oestrogel
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,38257.msg608939.html#msg608939
Linsey x
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Hello Dr has prescribed Utrogestan to replace Provera as too many side effects with this. She wouldn’t advise taking it vaginally as not licenced for this, but I read people are taking it this way so presuming it’s ok to do so? I would rather avoid going through liver, same as being on Estrogel.
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Hi - I am 61 and after battling for 3 years of menopause torture, to get any hrt I have finally been allowed it!
But the doctor had no ideas and just gave me oestrogel and Utrogestan With no instructions. Could I please get some ideas? So I am using 1 pump of gel ( I have read I can go to 2), and flushes went immediately. Last period was 18 months ago. So the utrogestan ? To take about day 21 for 7 days? So do I stop the estrogel when taking the utrogestan? Many thanks
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You can use up to 4 pumps of gel.
Post meno dose of utrogestan is to take for 25 days out of 28 although some ladies take it every day. Take it at night before going to bed . You use Oestrogel every day.
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Thanks Dotty!! Really can I just check?
25 days to take Utrogestan?
Nearly the whole month?
Then wait 3 days and start again Utrogestan ? I think prof Studd is for 7 days for this??...
And thank you - stay on oestrogel the whole time!
Sorry must be my brain fog!
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Studds regime is 7 days but that's not recognised by nhs .
My consultant told me to take it for 25 days starting on 1st of month and then start again on 1st of month.
Others say 25 days out of 28 and others take it every day!
Utrogestan should be taken on empty stomach at bed time.
Yes Oestrogel every day.
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Hi my doctor told me to take for 25 days and 2 pumps of oestrogel I have been on it for 3 wks now and the hot flushes have reduced drastically this week I haven't had a lot of patience and was very hormonal yesterday do you think I need to up the oestrogel xx
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I've just started on this regime, I've been told to use the gel in the morning and the testerone gel in the morning but I have also been told to take 100gm of utrogestan at night every night of the month, is this correct? so I'm taking this orally, is it normal to feel so hung over in the morning, will this feeling pass?
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I use Oestrogel and testogel in morning and utrogestan at night. I haven't noticed any side effects with utrogestan.
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Hi,
I think I'm going through early perimenopause. In 36, but my mum and grandma both went through it early. My symptoms over the last couple of years have included insomnia, anxiety, depression, feeling disconnected, tingling, head pressure, fatigue, aura migraine, headaches, hair falling out, water retention/thick skin on bottom of legs, brain fog/poor concentration, cystic acne on my jawline. I generally don't feel great, but I am far worse before and st the start of my period. My periods have been erratic for some time. In the last couple of months I've been on my period for over two weeks and only had just over a week before it starts again.
I saw Dr Studd on Monday who prescribed 3 pumps of oestogel and testogel. I start progesterone in April.
I've just got a few questions:
Since starting the gels I have felt more anxious and a bit nauseous. Is this just my body getting used to them do you think? And is it likely to settle down?
Does it take a while to find the right combination?
Also, have you had similar symptoms on perimenopause? How long have the symptoms lasted?
Thanks
D xxxxx
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Did you start in 3 pumps straightaway ? Could be that it's too much and you need to build up but I'm not an expert.
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Yeah Dr Studd told me start on 3 pumps. I think I will call his office tomorrow and ask if I should reduce it?
Have you seen Dr Studd, and if so, how did you get your blood test results?
Do you think it sounds like I'm in perimenopause?
Thanks xxx
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Hi no I haven't seen Professor Studd. But I am on Oestrogel and Utrogestan.
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DBean, I definitely would not reduce that dose of Oestrogel. There is a very good reason why Professor Studd has put you on that high dose of oestrogen only HRT until April and that is because you are very young with a wide range of debilitating symptoms. You need to build up your oestrogen levels to get the feel good factor and you can't do that with a low dose. It would be a different approach if you were an older woman who was post menopause and wanted some fairly straightforward symptom relief.
Give it time to work and perhaps think about splitting up the dose by 12 hours to avoid hormone dips.
Dotty is right, the Professor Studd regime of 7 days 100mg vaginal Utrogestan for progesterone intolerant women is not recognised by the NHS but many of us happily use this regime (I use even less under supervision and it is enough for me) and as long as you have regular uterine scans to check your lining, there is nothing wrong with it and nobody should fear using it if it makes HRT viable for them.
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Thanks so much Mary for your detailed and informative reply.
Does it make sense that I feel worse in the interim whilst my body adjusts? Have you seen Prof Studd and what is your opinion of his methods?
Xx
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DBean, yes I am a patient of Professor Studd and his low dose 7 day progesterone regime was a real life saver and made HRT viable for me. He also introduced me to Oestrogel which I think is a brilliant product and the only form of oestrogen that has worked properly for me so as far as I am concerned it was worth every penny. This was several years ago when it was difficult to get Oestrogel on the NHS and in any case they would have forced me to take a high dose of progesterone which is out of the question because I am severely progesterone intolerant.
Don't worry about feeling worse before you feel better, it's very common for this to happen while you adjust but why not send Professor Studd an email or phone his very helpful and knowledgeable secretary to put your mind at rest?
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Hi! Having a bad day today, been taking utrogestan 100 mg at night for 6 days now by mouth, but feeling rubbish, I have such a muggy head and feel so nauseous, could this be the utrogestan? I'm also using the estrogel and testogel, will this feeling pass. I'm looking after my 7 month old grandson today who is teething and I just feel so rough, roll on 6.30pm....... just wanted a moan.... Thanks
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Hi robotwars I've just finished my utro too and I'm struggling with bad anxiety. I use the vaginal route as I've read this helps lessen side effects
This really is an awful time of life x
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Thanks for the update Peony and glad it's working for you - especially the vaginal use of Utrogestan on a continuous basis - since there are not many of us who do this due to bladder irritation and also not wanting to take progesterone continuously.
Do you mean you get up in the middle of the night to apply the estrogel :o and do you mean 3 pumps in total? If you are taking quite a high dose of gel then you may well get a small bleed eventually when you stop the utro although it is mainly designed as a no-bleed continuous combined HRT with the break just in case there is any thickening. Some women do find they get random spotting on the conti dose but perhaps less so with vaginal use as the dose would be more consistent.
Hope you continue to feel well :)
Not so good. Although the utro made me feel well in myself the bleeding has gone from bad to worse. After more than a decade of zero bleeding with Mirenas, the bleeding started with the utro and has increased to the point where the last "period" ending about a week ago was torrential with blood and clots literally falling out of me . If I 'd been alone in the house I think i'd have called an ambulance. Have appointment with GP tomorrow to request pelvic ultrasound and referral to Abnormal Bleeding and Hysteroscopy Clinic ( under the 2 week rule to be on the safe side and because am terrified of having another "period" like the last one. My 25 day cycle of utro ends on Saturday and am not re starting because somehow the two things are associated. I know I have fibroids I got the Mirena in the first place because I was bleeding heavily, not as bad as now however. Am going to need a different progesterone , fingers crossed Mirena will work for me again rather than anything surgical. My abdomen is distended and uncomfortable however, don't understand how the fibroids seem to have grown with utro however, though I have read other posts where people seem to have experienced bad bleeding.
No am not so dedicated as to get up in the middle of the night to apply oestrogel. I apply two pumps in the morning after my shower one on each thigh. Then I wash my upper arm when am getting ready for bed and apply one pump then. I ve always done better on divided doses when I first started and had bad menopausal symptoms I found taking all the oestrogel in the morning didn't work. The fluctuations in levels caused symptoms so I divided the doses and that helped. I haven't had a bleed and am now 10 days into the next cycle so hopefully will settle down to no bleed. When I was researching menopause I discovered that it was the fluctuations in hormone levels that caused the symptoms rather than the absolute levels so I have always tried to avoid fluctuations in dosing. This combination seems to be working well for me at present so will see what the future brings. Thanks for your help.
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Hi,
I think I'm going through early perimenopause. In 36, but my mum and grandma both went through it early. My symptoms over the last couple of years have included insomnia, anxiety, depression, feeling disconnected, tingling, head pressure, fatigue, aura migraine, headaches, hair falling out, water retention/thick skin on bottom of legs, brain fog/poor concentration, cystic acne on my jawline. I generally don't feel great, but I am far worse before and st the start of my period. My periods have been erratic for some time. In the last couple of months I've been on my period for over two weeks and only had just over a week before it starts again.
I saw Dr Studd on Monday who prescribed 3 pumps of oestogel and testogel. I start progesterone in April.
I've just got a few questions:
Since starting the gels I have felt more anxious and a bit nauseous. Is this just my body getting used to them do you think? And is it likely to settle down?
Does it take a while to find the right combination?
Also, have you had similar symptoms on perimenopause? How long have the symptoms lasted?
Thanks
D xxxxx
Hi DBean, I am 41 (42 in just over a week!) and have been on Prof Studd's regime for nearly 3 months for severe PMS (exhaustion and anxiety before and during period) and osteopenia (diagnosed at first Prof Studd appt). I saw Mr Neale Watson rather than Prof Studd. He explained that I might feel worse at first due to the hormone fluctuations and that it's the fluctuations that can cause anxiety/fatigue etc. So it might be that this is why you're not feeling too good right now. I know it's really difficult when you feel worse before you feel better but I'd recommend sticking it out if you can as once you do level out your hormones, you should feel better – this has certainly been the case for me.
Overall I feel much better after 2 and a half months, although there have been a few ups and downs whilst my body has adjusted. My first few weeks on 3 pumps of oestrogel were fine but then I felt extremely exhausted for a week, then had my period and continued to feel exhausted. I called Prof Studd's office to ask whether I should up the oestrogel (given my period had started) and the receptionist suggested I email Prof Studd. He got back to me the next day saying I should go up to 4 pumps. I did and felt much better. I then took the utrogestan vaginally for 7 days from 1st – 7th February (even though I'd recently had my period – Prof Studd said to still take it) and got on much better than I expected. I felt a bit snappy and groggy on days 6 and 7, but fine otherwise. I feel since I've got up to the 4 pumps of oestrogel my anxiety and moods have been much more level. I'm guessing the 4 pumps of oestrogel have been enough to supress my natural cycle so that the fluctuations are now less. I am amazed I've been OK on the utrogestan as I was expecting the worst (I can't tolerate the contraceptive pill). I'm hoping 1st – 7th March will be the same. I hope that hearing my positive experience helps x
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Lucyloo, that's really interesting that 4 pumps made a difference for you. I am on 3 and am wondering if 4 would help. I am feeling a lot better than I was but still feel anxious and a bit low at times despite really good self care. Thank you for sharing your experience x
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Hi! Having a bad day today, been taking utrogestan 100 mg at night for 6 days now by mouth, but feeling rubbish, I have such a muggy head and feel so nauseous, could this be the utrogestan? I'm also using the estrogel and testogel, will this feeling pass. I'm looking after my 7 month old grandson today who is teething and I just feel so rough, roll on 6.30pm....... just wanted a moan.... Thanks
Hi there - yes like 4mesons - I have never taken Utrogestan orally and nausea and foggy head are well known side effects that are worse with oral route. How long each month do you take it for? I find the muggy head is always there on the utro phase even when taken vaginally.
Hurdity x
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Peony - I couldn't see your reply at first because it was inside the quotes of my post, so thought there was nothing but realised it was there!! Sorry to hear about all the bleeding and all the best with your investigations - let us know how things go.
Hurdity x
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Hi ladies feeling really low at the min I am not sleeping too well been to doctors for my first month check she told me to see how I feel on my 3 day break and to up the oestrogel I know I need to get used the hormones again but not liking feeling like this 😥
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LucyLoo, it's good to hear that you are feeling so much better, it seems that 4 pumps of Oestrogel are needed to get the formula right to override the cycle for women with hormonal anxiety.
Crazywomen, I would take that advice and try increasing your gel dose and see if it makes a difference.
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Lucyloo, that's really interesting that 4 pumps made a difference for you. I am on 3 and am wondering if 4 would help. I am feeling a lot better than I was but still feel anxious and a bit low at times despite really good self care. Thank you for sharing your experience x
Hi Mindfulmoomins, thank you for your post and for sending me a personal message about the 4 pumps of oestrogel - I'm sorry but I can't reply to your personal message yet as I haven't posted 10 times - I will reply as soon as I have enough posts!
It's interesting about the 4 pumps of oestrogel. I've read quite a few ladies (both peri and menopausal) saying they feel a bit jittery and anxious on higher doses of oestrogen but this hasn't been the case for me. I put on all 4 pumps in the morning - 2 on my shoulders and upper arms and 2 on my inner thighs.
My theory is that I've needed to up my oestrogen to override my own hormone ups and downs as I'm still menstruating. My oestrogen levels felt too low at 3 pumps after a while as I was exhausted and had a period. I therefore think my own hormones were going up and down in the background. At 4 pumps I've had more energy and felt better in myself. I'm also sleeping fine (unless I'm worrying about something - but I've always been a worrier!)
I also felt OK during the 7 day utrogestan phase (apart from needing the loo in the night which I understand is a common side effect of the utro, especially when taken vaginally.) When I first went up to the 4 pumps of oestrogel I did get thrush like symptoms. I googled it and found that high oestrogen levels can cause these symptoms. Two weeks later I started on the utrogestan vaginally and felt really sore down below- I think it was a combination of the thrush symptoms and the utro together. I stuck with it though as I was so relieved to not feel too bad emotionally on the utro - I'm normally awful with progesterone. Since I've finished the utro phase the thrush symptoms have stopped. I had a bleed 7 days after the utro which has been quite heavy, but similar to my normal periods. So overall I'm feeling happy on the 4 pumps and hopeful that the next utro 7 days will be OK (1st - 7th March).
I should add I'm also rubbing in a pea sized blob of testosterone each morning to my outer thigh. I started rubbing in very small amounts as I was worried about side effects but I'm now up to a large pea sized blob and feel it is helping my libido. I've had no negative side effects.
When I emailed Prof Studd he was very happy for me to go up to the 4 pumps of oestrogel. I have my 3 month follow up appointment in a few weeks (I think I'm seeing Michael Savvas) so I'll check whether I'm OK to continue. I'm also going to ask about having annual scans to check my uterus lining, but given I've had a good bleed following the 7 days of utro I'm hoping I'll be OK.
Thanks for your message Mary G - I do think 4 pumps is helping to over ride my cycle and therefore stopping the hormonal anxiety/exhaustion symptoms x
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its so interesting reading everyones experiences and realising you are not alone. I'm a little concerned as I have been put on utrogestan every day of the month, so I never get a break, even though I have been having light periods every 3/4 months before this. I'm just wondering whether I should be on a regime that gives you a period as I haven't gone the full year, just not sure what that is with the Utrogestan as everyone seems to take it for different amounts of times!!!!
I'm also feeling so dizzy and nauseous at the moment, feel like I'm pregnant! lol - I know I'm not, just hoping it gets better as my body gets used to it as its only been 7 days..... fingers crossed
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So ...have just done my first week of utrogestan orally .. never again ! Had the worse acid reflux ! (Which i didnt have on femseven Sequi ) So i might now try the vaginal route. The other thing i have noticed is terrible itching ...which on the pamplet says to report to your doctor ! 😳
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its so interesting reading everyones experiences and realising you are not alone. I'm a little concerned as I have been put on utrogestan every day of the month, so I never get a break, even though I have been having light periods every 3/4 months before this. I'm just wondering whether I should be on a regime that gives you a period as I haven't gone the full year, just not sure what that is with the Utrogestan as everyone seems to take it for different amounts of times!!!!
I'm also feeling so dizzy and nauseous at the moment, feel like I'm pregnant! lol - I know I'm not, just hoping it gets better as my body gets used to it as its only been 7 days..... fingers crossed
I'm losing track of everyone but you shouldn't be on continuous Utro if you haven't gone a full year without a bleed. It won't do you any harm but it could mean firstly that you bleed at unpredictable times, but more to the point - if you are feeling dizzy and nauseous and taking it orally - you are needlessly suffering these symptoms because you are also taking it every day! Most women would not want to use it vaginally every day especially if in a relationship so if you want to prevent the side effects and have a regular withdrawal bleed then taking it cyclically, and vaginally may be the answer. Some docs will prescribe it continuously if you have suffered extreme pms and peri-menopausal mood swings - as it will even these out to some extent. I suppose it depends what you are most seeking relief from and whicu method makes you feel better for more of the time?
The licensed dose is 12 days x 200 mg orally per 28 day cycle, or 100 mg orally continuously every day (or 25/28 days) - if you are post-menopausal. The variations are for those who are progesterone intolerant to some degree and under medical supervision.
Hope your body acclimatises soon but if not you might like to vary how you take it....with approval of your doc.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity. its funny you said it will make my periods unpredictable as I came on on Saturday.... think I might email the consultant and see what she says.....
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Morning silly question again I am on the 1 to 25 days when do I start again I have got a break through bleed when do I start the utrogestan again x
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If you started it on the 1st of the month then you start it on the 1st again
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The end of my road with utrogestan. Which is sad as it made me feel so well in myself but the bleeding was unbelievable. At the weekend it looked like people had been murdered. The clots were huge . I saw my GP after the bleed before this one and an emergency referral was arranged for the gynae dept. Saw the consultant today he did a trans vaginal scan and all I have is one small fibroid and a thin uterine lining ( presumably because the rest of it was all over the bed, bathroom floor etc etc.) He has taken an endometrial biopsy for completeness but said won't be anything bad all looks too healthy. Utrogestan caused my bleeding. I was on 3 pumps of oestrogel and 1 100mg Utrogestan vaginally 25.days out of 28 so correct dosing. I don't know why some women react like this because I have found other bleeders posts. He put in another Mirena coil which I had had several without problem previously so hopefully thats the end of it because I could not go through another bleed like the last two and am now anaemic. He did give me the lecture that I should stop HRT altogether because have been on it about 17 years but I have never smoked, don't drink so I guess you choose your risk factors. I am traumatised by those last two bleeds, it was like starring in your own Quentin Tarantino movie. I hope this Mirena works as well for me as previously and sharing my experience may help someone else at some point.
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Morning silly question again I am on the 1 to 25 days when do I start again I have got a break through bleed when do I start the utrogestan again x
If it's 1-25 days utrogestan that's 1-25 of a 28 day cycle so you take 3 days off (ie days 26, 27 and 28) and start taking again and counting day 1 after day 28. If you keep to the 28 day cycle then it should be the same day of the week each time. What day of the cycle did you get the breakthrough bleed and are you post-menopausal? If not then breakthrough bleeding can occur at any time and you might be better off on the 200 mg x 12 days proper cyclical regime, unless there was a specific reason for you to take it nigh on continuously?
Hurdity x
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The end of my road with utrogestan. Which is sad as it made me feel so well in myself but the bleeding was unbelievable. At the weekend it looked like people had been murdered. The clots were huge . I saw my GP after the bleed before this one and an emergency referral was arranged for the gynae dept. Saw the consultant today he did a trans vaginal scan and all I have is one small fibroid and a thin uterine lining ( presumably because the rest of it was all over the bed, bathroom floor etc etc.) He has taken an endometrial biopsy for completeness but said won't be anything bad all looks too healthy. Utrogestan caused my bleeding. I was on 3 pumps of oestrogel and 1 100mg Utrogestan vaginally 25.days out of 28 so correct dosing. I don't know why some women react like this because I have found other bleeders posts. He put in another Mirena coil which I had had several without problem previously so hopefully thats the end of it because I could not go through another bleed like the last two and am now anaemic. He did give me the lecture that I should stop HRT altogether because have been on it about 17 years but I have never smoked, don't drink so I guess you choose your risk factors. I am traumatised by those last two bleeds, it was like starring in your own Quentin Tarantino movie. I hope this Mirena works as well for me as previously and sharing my experience may help someone else at some point.
Sorry to hear about this Peony. Sounds horrendous! With fibroids everything is going to be different unfortunately, although it's strange that this occurred if the fibroid was small (I have one that actually shrunk on HRT but mine was 0.8 cm). What point in the 28 days did you have the TVS? It may well be that the lining is building up on the 3 pumps and the utrogestan is being very effective in shedding it? Also how many months had you been on this regime ( the 23 pumps and the 25/28 utrogestan) and were you on HRT before? Maybe the uterus lining had been building previously and only now was coming away although one would expect that to happen just once eg with the first cycle unless it had thickened a lot? The utrogestan does not cause the bleeding as such - it enables whatever has been stimulated by oestrogen (ie lining or fibroids) to change in strutcture and then be shed when the progesterone is stopped.
Here is what it says on this website about fibroids and HRT:
Fibroids are benign smooth muscle tumours of the uterine (womb) wall and are dependant on estrogen. They tend to shrink after the menopause but shrinkage may not occur, or they may even increase in size with HRT use. Increase is thought to occur in 25% of HRT users and mainly occurs in the first six months of therapy. There is some evidence that transdermal (patch or gel) but not tablet HRT nor tibolone may promote fibroid growth. [ref 24] Fibroid size can be monitored by regular examinations and sometimes by ultrasound scans. There is some evidence that the use of the progestogen releasing intra-uterine system, Mirena may cause fibroids to reduce in size. Mirena is often used in the perimenopause by women who have heavy periods and/or require contraception and can provide the progestogen part of their HRT.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/atoz.php#GlossF
Hopefully the Mirena will help in future as it did before for you :)
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity had my break through bleed on the 2nd day the doctor told me to take it this way even though I said I have not gone 12 mths without a period my last one was in August she has said they will change it to the 200 one if it isn't suiting me I haven't slept well since starting this hrt also she has given me estrogel instead of oestrogel this time which I find to be stickier than oestrogel but will see how it goes x
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Hi again - what do you mean by bleed on "the 2nd day"? Do you mean Day 2 of utrogestan (in the 28 day cycle) , or the second day off ( ie day 27)?
Hurdity x
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Sorry Day 27 it hasn't been bad only light x
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Oh crazy woman I do sympathize, I only started on the utrogestan and gels on the 15th feb, and came on on Saturday and been bleeding very heavy ever since, so not sure whats going on, as I was told to take the utrogestan continually all month... >:( I'm already anaemic so I'm sure this isn't helping!!!!!
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Hi I was lucky only bled for 3 days it's just the lack of sleep that's annoying xx
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Sorry Day 27 it hasn't been bad only light x
OK if it was day 27 then it was as you say, day 2 off the utrogestan and you start the utro again after Day 28 which then starts the cycle again as Day 1. If you bled then, it is not actually technically a breakthrough bleed - but a normal progesterone withdrawal bleed and nothing to worry about - completely normal! I was concerned that because you are not post-menopausal you could bleed at any time on this regime. If you do continue to have a small bleed during the 3 days off this is fine and indicates you may well be close to menopause. Sorry to hear about the lack of sleep - Utrogestan often has a sedative effect. Is it due to night sweats or nocturnal bladder or nothing you can explain? If necessary cut down on the caffeine and see if that makes a difference and try all the usual sleep techniques.
Hurdity x
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I contacted my consultant last week and I have now been advised to continue with the gels and stop utrogestan while on a period, but I have persevered with the gels but I'm feeling rubbish, The skin on my legs are itching like crazy, , my face is itching too, feels awful, plus my ankles are swollen ,My IBS has also flared up......... beginning to wonder if HRT is for me.... as I feel awful......suppose to restart the utrogestan tonight...... just not sure what to do, I think I'm re-acting to it, as anyone else had this.....
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Hello everyone. This is my first post since starting HRT last August (through Dr Studd's clinic). Mainly taking it in an effort to reduce migraines which have increased massively as I am in peri-menopause (I am 49). So - 4 pumps estrogel each day, utrogestan vaginally days 1-10. Feel awful on the progesterone part by the way - tried, low etc. My question is this - I did't take it on day 1 as I was supposed to this time as I was having a period. Still haven't started it - 8 March. Puzzling over what to do as it's our annual family holiday 25 March to 8 April and I so don't want to feel ill - or be having a bleed, as it will be migraine city for me for days. Wondering if I could just start the utrogestan on 1 April so having skipped a month? Any thoughts or experience anyone? And by the by, I don't really feel the HRT has helped much with the migraines. I also take 50mg nortitriptyline every night - prescribed by GP as a possible help with the migraines - but am gradually reducing it - Dr Studd thought I should come off it. However, the HRT has helped with other meno symptoms - anxiety/panic, weird feeling in legs, flushes etc....Thanks to anyone still reading at the end of these ramblings - the menopause is rubbish, isn't it.....
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Tea and Biscuits, sorry to hear you are a fellow migraine sufferer. I'm sorry that your HRT regime has not improved your migraines but that could be due to the dreaded Utrogestan. Firstly, could you ask Professor Studd if you could do the 7 day 100mg Utrogestan phase? This is what he prescribed for me although I do take less than that and have regular uterine scans. The problem with taking Utrogestan for 10 days is that by the time you have had a period, it has taken you to about day 18 of the month and after a very short space of time, you have got to start the whole process over again which doesn't leave you with many days of feeling good.
It sounds like Professor Studd has put you on a high dose of oestrogen to override your cycle which is good and explains why you are feeling better with anxiety etc.
I would say definitely skip the next Utrogestan phase and start it on 1 April when you get back from your holiday. If you have just had a period, you are very unlikely to get any breakthrough bleeding. I would ring Professor Studd's office anyway and ask about the 7 day regime and also tell him you are skipping the next phase due to your holiday.
Regarding migraines, I also started getting silent migraines once I hit the menopause - migraine aura without headache. I had a Mirena coil for contraception at the time and although I have never got on particularly well with progesterone, I didn't get migraines with it but I really hit the buffers with it once my oestrogen levels tanked. I feel completely normal when on the oestrogen phase and don't get migraines but if I take too much progesterone for too long, the migraines really kick off.
You need to find a progesterone level that clears the womb lining but doesn't disable you with constant migraines.
I agree that the menopause is pants but I didn't have an easy time with contraception either so I have just swapped one set of problems for another. That said, overall I feel far better now on high levels of oestrogen than I did on the pill in my 20s so it's not all bad. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had opted for hysterectomy years ago when it would have be easier to recover from the operation and I was in an office job with paid sick leave. That would have sorted the contraception/progesterone intolerance once and for all.
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Hi Tea and Biscuits
:welcomemm:
I am a bit puzzled by your plans because you are going away on 25th March - 8th April but plan to skip taking the utro in March, and start on 1st April bang in the middle of your holiday when you said you don't want to take it ( and I know the feeling - I'm on a two month cycle approx and always plan my utro and bleed to avoid hols or going away at all if possible!)??
If the treatment is working normally and has suppressed your cycle (ie you normally get a bleed after you stop the progesterone each month, apart from this month), then if I were you I would start taking it asap and then your withdrawal bleed (if any) would be more or less over by the time you go away.
However the fact that you bled before you started the prog does imply that it could be a period and your cycle hasn't fully suppressed. If that is the case and your prog taking is out of cyns with your periods, then another one might come in a month;s time which would be while you're away? However if you take the prog soon, at least your lining may not have built up - but sounds like it could be unpredictable and you might have to go with the flow - literally!
Another reason for bleeding at the "wrong" time - could be your cycle is suppressed but the prog hasn't shed it all so it has shed spontaneously. If this were the scenario then a course of prog would be good because it would help further shedding.
It is impossible to say what is going on and to plan bleeds when you are peri-menopausal and especially on a regime like this one.
Sounds like a good idea to come off the everyday pain meds - but have you been offered an alternative? I presume you have meds if you've had migraines for years? I was recently prescribed sumatriptan for the first time after years of hormone headaches (which started just before peri-menopause) and unpredictable migraines and they are magic! I haven't had a proper migraine now since early January but I've fended off a couple with these pills!! This is the longest time migraine free for years (fingers crossed....).
Let us know what you decide and how you get on bleed-wise - and if we don't hear from you - enjoy your hols (we have a Holiday thread - in This and That board - the chat part of forum!)
Hurdity x
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Dear Mary G and Hurdity, thank you for responding to my post. Mary, I was originally on the 7 day utrogestan regime and 3 pumps of estrogel but when I saw Dr Studd in February and I reported no improvement in the migraine situation he upped it to 4 estrogel daily and 10 days of utrogestan. I really think I need to take as little prog as possible and as infrequently as possible - perhaps with scans to check all ok? And Hurdity, thanks for your comments. I think at the end of the day it is all a bit of a lottery during peri-menopause - how much of various hormones to take, what levels of hormones your own body is producing, etc. I was planning on going on the Utrogestan on 1 April as it would be 10 days of no bleed - although admittedly 10 days of feeling pretty rotten. Regarding Sumatriptan for migraines, I was on these but found that a) they took too long to work and b) they made me feel sick. (before peri-menopause I was not on migraine medication, they were so few and far between, and usually bad headaches prior to menstruation). Eventually my GP put me on Zomig (Zolmatriptan) which has really been a lifesaver. It is a 5mg nasal spray. You take it only when a migraine has started and usually relief comes quickly. I often take it with 3 aspirin as well. It can work as quickly as 15/20 minutes, or up to 2 hours. Thanks to everyone on this forum - it really helps to be able to share these problems with people who understand.
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Hi ladies
I'm new. I'm post-menopausal and I'm 35. Ive been post-meno for about 6 years. No cause for it has been identified. I couldn't tolerate regular pill or hrt as they made me rage and depressed. After 10 I paid to go private and have been given bioidentical hormones.
I am on estrogel - 1 pump daily, utrogestan 100mg for 12 days and testim gel.
I was put on a very low dose to start with for the estrogel given my past reaction to hormones. I have been on it now for just under 2 months and it seems fine. The utrogestan made me sick and dizzy by mouth so I took it vaginally. This caused thrush and so not sure what to do about this. It also makes me have restless nights in that I'm waking up a lot!
Ive started to up my estrogel dose to 1.5 pumps.
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It will make you restless it does to me as well, but I basically just get through the 12 days, treat the thrush, its prob a once off thing and keep using it vaginally, its really good and the gel will make you feel so much better, I also had to start on it at a young age.
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Is it normal to have crampy, moderately painful bleeds after using utrogestan vaginally? I have been on this regime for 2 years now (Estradot patch/Utrogestan vaginally) and my bleeds are always painful like they used to be when I had proper periods. I'm 56 by the way and 3 & half years post menopausal. I had a scan to check the womb lining last August and all was well. The cramps every month are really annoying and painful enough to take painkillers especially this month as I brought the whole cycle a bit closer/shorter as we are going away for the weekend and I wanted to be finished with the bleed, so I figured as this was a shorter cycle there would be less lining to come away, the bleed is not particularly heavy. I was planning on taking the Utrogestan this month 100mg for 12 days but I've only gotten to day 8 when my bleed has began, I have tried 100 x 12 days before about 18 months ago and both times I bled before I got to day 12 so I decided to alternate with 100, 200, 100 etc for the 12 days and for the last 18 months this has worked perfectly but always with crampy bleeds. I decided to try taking the 100 x 12 days again as the 200 feels just that bit much for me with migraines, restless sleep, waking groggy and lately I've began having night sweats while on the Utro.
So what I would like advice on is : is it normal at my age (56) to have painful cramps and moderate bleeds? Does anyone else who's post menopausal have cramps? And why do I bleed before the end of the 12 day Utrogestan course when only taking 100 vaginally? If I wanted to take 100 Utro for 25 days per month on a conti regime I would never get that far as I always begin bleeding after days 7/8 (not that I would want to take it for 25days ;) ) Oh and I use the Estradot 50 patch. Thank you
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It will make you restless it does to me as well, but I basically just get through the 12 days, treat the thrush, its prob a once off thing and keep using it vaginally, its really good and the gel will make you feel so much better, I also had to start on it at a young age.
Thanks Cassie. How old were you when you started? Did you notice a difference in your skin? I've developed spots since using Utro and Ive never suffered with spots before. I have been post-meno for about 6 years and only just started HRT so my skin doesn't look good at the moment and its losing elasticity. I really hope it will improve. I've upped to 2 pumps of oestrogel as I figured 1 pump was too low.
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Can I join please? I've recently changed from 100mg patch to gel. Currently on 3 with a view to increasing to 4 so that I can override my cycle.
I've seen some positives on here for 4 pumps. Hope it works for me.
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Loubyloo - do you use testosterone? That can cause spots .
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Loubyloo - do you use testosterone? That can cause spots .
Hi Dotty. Yes I do, I have got Testim gel. I was told to make a tube last 4 days as my levels were so low. To be honest I haven't really been taking it. I reduced the dose to a pea size amount.
I used 2 pumps of estrogel today instead of 1 and felt a bit teary. I need to get used to it though as my bones need the protection.
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Loobylou - try using the testosterone as you were prescribed it. It might make you feel better.
Oestrogen should make you feel better too. X
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Loobylou - try using the testosterone as you were prescribed it. It might make you feel better.
Oestrogen should make you feel better too. X
Thanks Dotty I will.
The time has come for me to take Utrogestan again. I took it before bed and didn't sleep AT ALL. This happened the last 2 cycles of it. I don't think this agrees with me. I am on this as the BCP made me depressed. However, I wonder if I take Provera and because it is only for 10 days rather than 21 days like the BCP, I may be able to tolerate it?
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Is it normal to have crampy, moderately painful bleeds after using utrogestan vaginally? I have been on this regime for 2 years now (Estradot patch/Utrogestan vaginally) and my bleeds are always painful like they used to be when I had proper periods. I'm 56 by the way and 3 & half years post menopausal. I had a scan to check the womb lining last August and all was well. The cramps every month are really annoying and painful enough to take painkillers especially this month as I brought the whole cycle a bit closer/shorter as we are going away for the weekend and I wanted to be finished with the bleed, so I figured as this was a shorter cycle there would be less lining to come away, the bleed is not particularly heavy. I was planning on taking the Utrogestan this month 100mg for 12 days but I've only gotten to day 8 when my bleed has began, I have tried 100 x 12 days before about 18 months ago and both times I bled before I got to day 12 so I decided to alternate with 100, 200, 100 etc for the 12 days and for the last 18 months this has worked perfectly but always with crampy bleeds. I decided to try taking the 100 x 12 days again as the 200 feels just that bit much for me with migraines, restless sleep, waking groggy and lately I've began having night sweats while on the Utro.
So what I would like advice on is : is it normal at my age (56) to have painful cramps and moderate bleeds? Does anyone else who's post menopausal have cramps? And why do I bleed before the end of the 12 day Utrogestan course when only taking 100 vaginally? If I wanted to take 100 Utro for 25 days per month on a conti regime I would never get that far as I always begin bleeding after days 7/8 (not that I would want to take it for 25days ;) ) Oh and I use the Estradot 50 patch. Thank you
I never have crampy periods on my HRT regime and I've been on more or less the same for 6-7 years ( ie approx 50 mcg Estradot patch although now it's 62.5, 200 mg utrogestan x 12 days vaginally every 6-8 weeks, pea-sized blob of testosterone daily). My bleeds are way less and shorter than when having proper periods - I think I would have changed my regime if they had been similar. I never bleed until after I have missed the last Utrogestan. Last scan showed normal endometrium.
The reason for your early and heavy or cramping bleeds could be that the dose of utrogestan is insufficient, although if you are taking it monthly ( ie 12 days per 28 and alternating 100 with 200) and only on a 50 mcg patch this would be surprising. Maybe you have fibroids or polyps or have you had endometriosis in the past?
I would check with your doc and ideally have a scan at the end of a bleed before the lining starts to grow again, if possible, just to check there is no other reason ( than oestrogen/prog imbalance) for your symptoms.
Hurdity x
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Is it normal to have crampy, moderately painful bleeds after using utrogestan vaginally? I have been on this regime for 2 years now (Estradot patch/Utrogestan vaginally) and my bleeds are always painful like they used to be when I had proper periods. I'm 56 by the way and 3 & half years post menopausal. I had a scan to check the womb lining last August and all was well. The cramps every month are really annoying and painful enough to take painkillers especially this month as I brought the whole cycle a bit closer/shorter as we are going away for the weekend and I wanted to be finished with the bleed, so I figured as this was a shorter cycle there would be less lining to come away, the bleed is not particularly heavy. I was planning on taking the Utrogestan this month 100mg for 12 days but I've only gotten to day 8 when my bleed has began, I have tried 100 x 12 days before about 18 months ago and both times I bled before I got to day 12 so I decided to alternate with 100, 200, 100 etc for the 12 days and for the last 18 months this has worked perfectly but always with crampy bleeds. I decided to try taking the 100 x 12 days again as the 200 feels just that bit much for me with migraines, restless sleep, waking groggy and lately I've began having night sweats while on the Utro.
So what I would like advice on is : is it normal at my age (56) to have painful cramps and moderate bleeds? Does anyone else who's post menopausal have cramps? And why do I bleed before the end of the 12 day Utrogestan course when only taking 100 vaginally? If I wanted to take 100 Utro for 25 days per month on a conti regime I would never get that far as I always begin bleeding after days 7/8 (not that I would want to take it for 25days ;) ) Oh and I use the Estradot 50 patch. Thank you
I never have crampy periods on my HRT regime and I've been on more or less the same for 6-7 years ( ie approx 50 mcg Estradot patch although now it's 62.5, 200 mg utrogestan x 12 days vaginally every 6-8 weeks, pea-sized blob of testosterone daily). My bleeds are way less and shorter than when having proper periods - I think I would have changed my regime if they had been similar. I never bleed until after I have missed the last Utrogestan. Last scan showed normal endometrium.
The reason for your early and heavy or cramping bleeds could be that the dose of utrogestan is insufficient, although if you are taking it monthly ( ie 12 days per 28 and alternating 100 with 200) and only on a 50 mcg patch this would be surprising. Maybe you have fibroids or polyps or have you had endometriosis in the past?
I would check with your doc and ideally have a scan at the end of a bleed before the lining starts to grow again, if possible, just to check there is no other reason ( than oestrogen/prog imbalance) for your symptoms.
Hurdity x
Thank you for your reply Hurdity, well since I posted the above a few days ago my bleed has got heavier with a couple of small clots and still crampy, today is day 4 of the bleed and i just feel ready to pack it all in, I'm truly fed up with these bleeds even though I feel quite happy and settled on my regime when I'm not on the Utrogestan phase. I did have a scan last August which was fine with a lining of 5mm, no polyps or anything showed up and I've never had endometriosis. I do wonder if the heavier bleed could be due to me going longer over xmas, as I did a 7 week cycle, the bleed in January after this wasn't too bad as I did expect worse due to the length of the cycle but last month (Feb) was crampy & moderate but only lasted 4 days then this month (March) has been particularly painful and heavier even though this month was only 23 days between bleeds. I was planning on doing another longer cycle in June as we are away on a big holiday for almost 4 weeks, so I'm worried about that now :( It only gives me April and May to see what the bleeds are like before we go away. Not really sure what to do to be honest other than going back to 28 day cycles of alternating between 100 & 200 Utrogestan and hoping the cramps settle. If anything makes me want to give up on HRT it's this awful bleeding but as we're going away I wouldn't obviously do that yet and risk the dreadful menopause symptoms while away :'( Appreciate any advice
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Maybe as you suggest try going back to a 28 day cycle - with 200 mg utrogestan vaginally for 11 days if you can - during April and May. Then at least you will have done your best to thin your lining before having your long cycle while you go away for your big holiday (where are you off to - we have a holiday thread too and I know other members will be interested? :)). Sounds like you will need to take some medication to relieve the cramps too during April and May? Maybe they won't be so bad on a shorter cycle? Bit puzzling though if your lining is normal? Sorry I can't be more helpful but I do hope this works out for you and you can look forward to enjoying your holiday without cramps and utrogestan!
Hurdity x
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Maybe as you suggest try going back to a 28 day cycle - with 200 mg utrogestan vaginally for 11 days if you can - during April and May. Then at least you will have done your best to thin your lining before having your long cycle while you go away for your big holiday (where are you off to - we have a holiday thread too and I know other members will be interested? :)). Sounds like you will need to take some medication to relieve the cramps too during April and May? Maybe they won't be so bad on a shorter cycle? Bit puzzling though if your lining is normal? Sorry I can't be more helpful but I do hope this works out for you and you can look forward to enjoying your holiday without cramps and utrogestan!
Hurdity x
Hello again Hurdity and thank you once again for your reply, Well today the bleeding has dramatically reduced, gone from heavy and painful this time yesterday to virtually nothing overnight and so far today too, this happened at the end of last months cycle too :-\. I will certainly be going back to a proper 28 day cycle over the next couple of months and try and tolerate the 200 Utro if I can and hopefully that will get me back on track ::) (cross fingers) We're going to the West cost of America and Las Vegas to celebrate our sons 21st birthday (which was actually last week but we're going once he has finished Uni in June) Thank you for letting me know about the holiday thread, I will check that out! :)
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May I join this discussion, please? I started my own thread a few days ago, because I have been bleeding for 53 days continuously since starting on Estrogel & Utrogestan 100mg, but have been talking to a friend today and wonder whether I have been making a mistake with my HRT all along!!! I thought that 'one pump' meant one pump on each leg leg, but my friend says that she only uses one pump between both legs, and so I was wondering whether I am overdoing the oestrogen against the progesterone dosage, and that's why I am bleeding! Would that be the case, does anyone know?
Thank you
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Hi willotty - whereabouts are you in menopause and what was your cycle doing before you started HRT? I presume you are post-menopausal? It could be that your womb lining had built up before you started HRT and is now shedding? Also bleeding is quite common when first starting continuous combined HRT for a few months. On high doses of oestrogen sometimes the standard dose of oral progesterone may not be sufficient to keep the lining thin but you would need to keep going a while longer. What were you prescribed. One pump means one pump not two although 2 pumps is often the standard starting dose. Some women absorb more than others though!
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity - I'm such a numpty!! I thought one pump meant one pump on each leg! I had a bilateral oophorectomy last August as I was bleeding a lot & had large ovarian cysts, having been given Estrogel & the Mirena coil. I had previously not had a period for 10 years, as I has had 2 Mirenas before this one. After the op I was given the combined HRT patches, but they didn't work as well for the vaginal dryness and lack of libido, so I went back on the Estrogel in January, together with the Utrogestan. After 2 weeks the bleeding started & hasn't stopped since! Maybe I am just overloading on teh Estrogel then...
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I hope you're all doing ok ladies.
Can I join in too please. I'm after a bit of support/advice.
I have tried this regime before last year but the estrogel element made me feel very wired, jittery, shaky and anxious. This also happened with Evorel Conti patches. I was advised by specialist at menopause clinic to use half a pump of Estrogel for the first month then increase to a full pump and introduce 100mg Utrogestan for 12 days per month. I managed for the first month then the anxiety, jitteriness kicked in and I couldn't stand it so gave up.
I am now trying again and started with half a pump of gel on Thursday so I've been using it for five days and the old jittery, shaky, nauseous anxiety is right back. My question is, is this just a side effect of introducing estrogen and will it get better if I stick with it? Or increase?
Any advice would be gratefully received.
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Hi All Newby here , I joined the group due to noticing a change in UROGESTAN , at first thought it was out of date ? spoke to a colleague who suggested taking the pack back to the chemists , and to take one from the newest prescription
like everyone else I try to use the oldest first , having now seem an Endocrinologist he has upped my dose , and was furious with my GP,s practice I should have been having regular blood tests
my endo claims the NHS in the UK is currently prescribing the cheapest HRT to women , he thinks the NHS will be removing Utrogestan
so if anyone hasn't had a blood test in some time get down to your GP or ask to see an Endo/Gynaecologist as most GP,s think we should put up with all the problems , hope this helps
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Why does he think they will
be removing the Utrogestan?
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I would be surprised if the NHS discontinue Utrogestan on cost grounds, it is about €4.00 per box in Spain but the NHS would be able to buy it for much less than that with their huge purchasing power. That said, from what I have read on here, the NHS are always trying to get women to use the cheapest forms of HRT, it took them a long time to agree to prescribe Oestrogel and even now it is a bit hit and miss.
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I went for my papsmear and ultrasound today. Am currently using 100mg of Utrogestan for 10 sometimes 12 days per month vaginally. Use 1 pump of gel. The lining was 5.39mm, the Dr was satisfied and seems that the protocol I am on is doing its job which is a relief as I do not intend to give up these 2 medications anytime soon. Fortunately the Dr was very pro HRT and told me that he has many ladies well into their 80s using it still so that made my day. ;D
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Great news Cassie! Glad your lining is thin. I haven't had a scan for 2 years so maybe I should - although never had abnormal bleeding so hopefully all OK. Interesting to hear about women in their 80's. I wonder if they are also using progesterone (ie still have their uterus) and if so whether any of them are still on a cycle? It does seem odd to be having bleeds in mid 60's but needs must!
Hurdity x
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That's good news Cassie and proves you can take a low dose of Utrogestan and that it works well when used vaginally.
For those who have issues with progesterone, I think it's far better to use a low dose of progesterone and have regular scans than take a high dose of progesterone and never have scans.
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Hi I'm new might be on wrong thread . Utrogestan and withdrawal . I have terrible acne and constant headache since finishing the 12 day regime 6 days ago . Is this normal . I'm 48 and peri . Oestrogel 4 pumps daily and 12 x200mg utrogestan from day 15 . Sorry if this is a totally different thread !
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Hi Slater123
It's fine to post here - generally we suggest new members introduce themselves on a new thread either in this section or in the new members section to tell us something about yourself and your menopause but I can answer your question anyway.
The acne may be down to the progesterone itself (not stopping it), unless it is menopausal acne setting in. I had something like this - or maybe rosacea of sorts - but mine disappeared after starting HRT.
The headache on withdrawal of progesterone is typical I'm afraid - sounds like you have it worse than most. It is similar to pms symptoms - I used to get migraine or headaches just before a period and also I still get some form of progesterone woithdrawal - sometimes a migraine, sometimes just a short headache but I do feel rough for a few days until the progesterone has completely cleared my system. Hopefully yours will get better soon!
How frequent were your periods before starting hRT and are you taking the Utrogestan orally or vaginally? Also how did yuou feel during the 12 days taking the utrogestan?
That is quite a high dose of gel and I wondered if the intention is to shut down your cycle - depending on where in peri-menopause you are?
Hurdity x
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Hi all
Im new to this site and tnis is my first post. Been on hrt for two years but only now settled ! finding all the info very very interesting and informative.
Having trouble finding out how to post in the forums as im not very tech savy . Any help greatfully accepted
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Hi Traceylr
I answered on your other thread but didn't say :welcomemm: !!
You seem to have worked out how to do it now - so well done - keep reading and posting. You will get lots of help and support here :)
Hurdity x
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Hi all. This is my first post. I am 54 and started 100mg utragestan capsule daily and estrogel 2 pumps a day, 3 weeks ago. I have read that you can use the utragestan vaginally, but I am not sure if thats ok to do every day. Also other people don't seem to be on utragestan every day, which I dont understand. I have quite bad dizziness but am still overall feeling better. Would it be ok to alternate between taking utragestan orally and vaginally? Also just to say I love this website and it has made me feel a lot less panicked many times already.
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Hi All... I've been here around a week (or so) and posted in the New Members section... but Hi to all who haven't passed by that way...
I've been post meno around 5 years after a long peri phase. Been battling pretty rubbish symptoms and avoided HRT for various reasons - mainly fear of cancer and a dislike of synthetic HRT. However I've finally had enough and started on the Oestrogel I was prescribed some years ago. It's been a week now. I will start the Utrogestan200 tonight.
I've noticed I have gained weight and my uterus feels sensitive... it has bloated considerably. I'm guessing it's the change in balance.. rise in oestrogen. Will this eventually settle?
What should I expect withthe progesterone increase?
Does anyone have similar/same and have any advice or good news? I was hoping to loose a little weight not gain it! I eat a good balanced diet but could probably step up the excercise... hula hoop being put together as we speak ;)
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If you are post meno then you should be using Utrogestan 100 every night. Have you been prescribed 200 for a shorter time?
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To be honest I don't recall the instructions! But I am following advice based on my ridiculously low oestrogen progesterone and testosterone levels (results listed in my first thread in New Members). So I started low dose Oestrogel, am increasing today as well as starting the Utrogestan200 for 10-12 days... then use cyclically.
Should I use Utrogestan every day too?
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Hi Utrogestan used for 10-12 days is usually for peri menopause and will give you a monthly bleed. If you are post meno then you use utrogestan 100mg every day .
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Aha you have jogged my memory... my doc asked if I wanted a bleed or not. I said no.
So, considering the fact I'm post meno and really don't want a bleed again I should take daily?
And the bloated uterus?
My hot flushes have definitely died down and depression is subsiding... but sleep, libido, moodiness and weight gain are rubbish. I'm hoping HRT will finally help.... but I'm 1 week in and that's just with Oestrogel. I guess patience is key... I just wanted to know if this bloating will subside (and hopefully someone will pipe in and tell me I will be my fantastic 30 something self in around a month ;D ::) 8) )
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Hmm.... but I have Utrogestan200 not 100... and I can't see a Doc for some time (long story).
Why would she have given me 200 not 100?
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200 is for sequential hrt.
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Sheesh then I was prescribed the wrong HRT..... great. :sigh:
Can the pessaries be halved?
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I don't think you can halve them. The 200mg pessaries are actually licensed for IVF and not HRT as far as I'm aware. You can use Utrogestan vaginally but it's not registered that way in UK.
You can use Utrogestan sequentially post meno if you wish.
Look at the treatments tab on this website and you will see the licensed treatments for post and peri menopause.
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Thanks ladies.
To be clear I’m in Switzerland so (when I am covered) I see a Doc here. She didn’t fill me with confidence and never explained my results to me or what HRT would offer me (neither did she ask my symptoms) and the Gynacologist was a joke. So I didn’t use these for years after being prescribed them.
Symptoms eased after a while but came back with a vengeance... so I folded and decided to take them.
So... after a week of one pump of Oestrogel I’m ok to take 2 and the Utrogestan200 sequentially?
I will probably look into what is available both here and in the UK... best I choose something available in both countries so the 100 daily might be the way to go. That said I’m often in Spain where I believe you can buy HRT treatment OTC... which would save the huge health bills in Swissland!
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Hi - it might be a good idea to start off using the Utrogestan sequentially anyway. It will give some time for the oestrogen to get into your system unopposed - also you'll be able to judge how you feel when you add the progesterone. If you feel fine then you'll know you'd be ok taking in every day, if less than fine you may decide you'd rather continue to take it once a month and put up with the bleed.
Thanks Stellajane... what should I be looking out for? At the moment I appear to have a bloated belly and weight gain... possibly some water retention in face? What could happen when I add the progesterone to the mix?
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Hi Nikkisyard - not sure if we've spoken? However if you are 5 years post-meno I would continue with the 1 pump for a few weeks until your body acclimatises and then increase to two pumps if you feel you need to and with your doctor's approval. If you have been without oestrogen for that long then there are bound to be side effects so you want to minimise these by reintroducing oestrogen gradually - I would say.
In terms of the progesterone - you have been given advice already - and it's a question of whether you want to bleed or not and take as discussed. Docs often get the dose of this wrong anyway (in UK) if they are unfamiliar with it! It's difficult to say when to start - you don't know (presumably) whether your womb lining might have built up a little since menopause and therefore need to shed ( ie maybe a heavier bleed to start with) or because you are so long snce menopause, whether it will have atrophied in which case minimal progesterone mnay be needed at first.
Personally, to be on the safe side I would introduce the 200 mg for 12 days once you have been taking oestrogen for 14 days (approx) and see if you get a bleed and then take it from there ( with your doc's supervision).
As Stellajane says - best to see how well you tolerate both hormones so starting sequentially is the way to go - and if you are oK with the prog then taking it continuously may well be more convenient (unless using vaginally and in a relationship). You might even be able to try a long cycle like we do so taking progesterone less frequently (if you don't tolerate it well) but still getting a bleed.
Hurdity x
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I take 1 pump of the gel and I use the Utrogestan 100mg for 12 days a month as I found the 200mg too heavy. Even the 100mg gives me bloating and lower abdominal cramping like hectic period pains, I can put up with this for 12 days but I could never tolerate it daily, unfortunately its the Utro that is causing your bloating. If you use the 100mg and only for 12 days you will get a monthly bleed though, if you do not want a bleed you could try asking for the 100mg Utrogestan to use daily as she has given you the wrong dose for a daily dose, its way too heavy and too much progesterone, silly Dr.
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Hi ladies. I'm just starting on the Utrogestan/estrogel journey after an unsuccessful try-out of Femeston 1/10 (loved it for 2 weeks and hated it for 2.... i'm sure you can guess which 2!!).
My doc has suggested 2 pumps of the gel along with 1 x 100mg of utrogestan for 25 days. I started on Friday and felt that I needed a little more estrogel so have upped it to 2 pumps and a bit and am taking the utrogestan at night orally. It's not awful but certainly not great either, the utrogestan seems so strong.
I think i've read that I can use the same tablet vaginally but there's no mention in the leaflet... am I right? Basically, pop (nicest word i could thing of) the capsule up there at night and all will be well in the morning. I'm wondering if this may make me feel less spaced out and exhausted.
Any feedback would be very gratefully received. I can't imagine I'm going to manage with these feelings for 25 days every month.
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I agree with you memomum thats why I only use the Utrogestan 100mg for 12 days per mth, yes you just pop it in at night and it stays put until you go to the bathroom in the morning.
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Thank you Cassie, now I'm wondering if I can get away with 12 days a month of 100mg or whether I would need to do 2 capsules (200 mg) per night to get the same dose in as prescribed. I'm peri but towards the end (generally around 10 months between periods).
It's a minefield isn't it!!
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12 days per month should give adequate protection. I have been using it like this for over 10 yrs but I do go every year or 2 for a scan just to look at the lining of my uterus to check and I know by the withdrawal bleed that its doing its work.
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Hello everyone, I am in a similar position except I am post menopausal. I am on 2 pumps of estrogel per day, 1 morning and 1 evening. I am also on 100mg every day of utragestan. I felt awful and changed to vaginally but am not sure taking it vaginally every day is ok. I am thinking now that 12 days a month will be fine as per what you wrote Cassie. Am more than happy to go for scans at local mothercare, but am not sure how long to leave it. Only started on hrt a month ago and not due to see consultant until October. Think I might give the 12 days a month a go. I think I have been worried to go from everyday vaginally to 12 days vaginally because i keep reading that post menopause should be everyday. Anybody have any idea when I should get a scan?
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A scan once per year is recommended or if you are experiencing any unusual bleeding etc.
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Thank you Cassie. Much appreciated as it's so daunting not knowing what I'm doing.
x
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Morning,
Cassie, I just wanted to say a huge thank you. I 'popped' the Utrogestan up there last night and wow, I feel so much better today. Still a little spaced but that's probably to be expected as it'll take a few days to get over taking it orally but honestly, the difference is huge.
I may actually get some work done today!!
Memomum x
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Morning all,
@menomum68 just a bit of info . I take utro 100mgs daily no break ( vaginally at night time) I too changed from taking it orally because of side effects , mainly flat mood / awol libido . When I changed over I did experience two 5 day bleeds 3 weeks apart . All appears to have settled now and no side effects ! So just be prepared you may/ maynot ( hopefully) have any probs changing from daily oral to vag use. I bought a vaginal applicator( think its designed for delivering oestrogen gel up there, but the utro caps fit in perfectly) from the chemist so am able to ‘get it up' really high next to the cervix . Good luck .
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Hi
On my first month of Sandrena and Utrogestan ( 100mg for 12 days vaginally)
I don't seem to have had any real side effects apart from the fact my ankles feel swollen and stiff even when I first get up.
Anyone else had this?
Thanks
Macjac
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I have had no swollen ankles, i'm taking utrogestan every night and 2 pumps of estrogel, I am experiencing a dull ache and stomach pains, like your going to come on but don't, it feels awful, I am wondering whether I should try 12 days a month and do peri regime, just trying to work out the best time to stop for 2 weeks as we are away on the 28th of july….
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yes the utrogestan also gives me those awful bad lower cramps.
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Just a real stupid question, but if you do a peri regime you should have a period and shed the lining, but if you take the utrogestan all month how does the lining remain thin if you don't have a period, im probably being really stupid and having a blonde moment! LOL
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I think the continuous progesterone keeps the lining thin so a bleed is not necessary.
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Hi - I'm new here - good to find a thread dealing specifically with utrogestan +estrogel as that's what i'm just starting.
Have been using bioidentical creams but recent tests showed my levels are completely menopausal (my last period was a year ago) so they're obviously not working. I have Oestraclin from a friend in Spain which has come with what looks like a vaginal applicator - I have no intention of putting it there but in any case It is not clear at all how to use it as a measure so can anyone advise me how i can estimate the correct dose as i don't have a pump?
I'm planning to cycle both and have monthly "period".
The Utrogestan is 100 mg - it gives me acid reflux in the night if i swallow it but vaginally it's fine (i've tried it once each way - only just received oestraclin) It makes me sleep very well for 7 hours but then i'm very awake and i need more sleep than that so wondering if I should try 2 ie 200.
I don't have any contraindications for using either medication.
Would be grateful for any advice.
Thanks!
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Hello please can also join this group.
I am 53 and think I am still peri, after trying several different forms of HRT I have now been prescribed 200mg of Utrogestan from 1st to 14th of each month and 1 pump of estrogel each day...
I take the Utrogestan orally and this does seem to work okay for me, in fact I had been struggling with severe low moods and this pretty much improved from day 1, the gel I only started a couple of days ago, I had been on patches previously but my GP thinks that I don't absorb properly using this method. (I had been on Evorel sequi patches prior to this ) hence the change to the gel. I know it's early days but how long before I start to feel some improvement? My worst symptoms at mo are terrible flushes and crushing fatigue...I have just finished month two of the Utrogestan and started a bleed so that part seems to be working a lot better... now to figure out the other half 🤔 so trying to work out how long to give one pump or to consider increasing it to two. GP is great, she has been through meno hell and says she is out the other side and feeling great...so it's nice to know there IS hope for us all .... i send big hugs to fello meno girlies .... it really is crap ain't it 😘
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Hi - I'm new here - good to find a thread dealing specifically with utrogestan +estrogel as that's what i'm just starting.
Have been using bioidentical creams but recent tests showed my levels are completely menopausal (my last period was a year ago) so they're obviously not working. I have Oestraclin from a friend in Spain which has come with what looks like a vaginal applicator - I have no intention of putting it there but in any case It is not clear at all how to use it as a measure so can anyone advise me how i can estimate the correct dose as i don't have a pump?
I'm planning to cycle both and have monthly "period".
The Utrogestan is 100 mg - it gives me acid reflux in the night if i swallow it but vaginally it's fine (i've tried it once each way - only just received oestraclin) It makes me sleep very well for 7 hours but then i'm very awake and i need more sleep than that so wondering if I should try 2 ie 200.
I don't have any contraindications for using either medication.
Would be grateful for any advice.
Thanks!
Hi aurora
:welcomemm:
We don't have that oestrogen preparation here so I don't think we can help in terms of dosage. Oestrogen gel here in UK comes in a pump pack (oestrogel) or sachet ( Sandrena) and the instructions are given in the leaflet as to dosage.
In terms of cycling the utrogestan - yes that's fine to cycle it. If on a cycle then the usual dose is 200 mg x 12 days per month although with lower doses of oestrogen, if the prog is used vaginally you may be able to get away with less under medical supervision.
Hurdity x
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Hello please can also join this group.
I am 53 and think I am still peri, after trying several different forms of HRT I have now been prescribed 200mg of Utrogestan from 1st to 14th of each month and 1 pump of estrogel each day...
I take the Utrogestan orally and this does seem to work okay for me, in fact I had been struggling with severe low moods and this pretty much improved from day 1, the gel I only started a couple of days ago, I had been on patches previously but my GP thinks that I don't absorb properly using this method. (I had been on Evorel sequi patches prior to this ) hence the change to the gel. I know it's early days but how long before I start to feel some improvement? My worst symptoms at mo are terrible flushes and crushing fatigue...I have just finished month two of the Utrogestan and started a bleed so that part seems to be working a lot better... now to figure out the other half 🤔 so trying to work out how long to give one pump or to consider increasing it to two. GP is great, she has been through meno hell and says she is out the other side and feeling great...so it's nice to know there IS hope for us all .... i send big hugs to fello meno girlies .... it really is crap ain't it 😘
Hi there Shelby - you should start to see and improvement very soon - but depends on what dose of patches you were on? See how you feel after a few weeks - your flushes and sweats should lessen pretty quickly. If not you may need an increase in dose. The fact that you got a bleed on the patches shows you are absorbing some oestrogen even though your flushes didn't go away. I have only used gel in a sachet but generally the advice with increases in dosage is low and slow ie only increase by a small amount at a time because sometimes women seem to get rebound flushes with a sudden large increase.
Well I'm also out the other side (ie well post-menopausal) and feeling fine - but still on HRT in my mid 60's! Don't want to find out how I would feel without it right now - too much to do, life to lead!!! :
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity - Oestraclin is actually exactly the same as estrogel in as much as it's 0.6 mg and 80 g but it's a tube not a pump - I have read on here somewhere someone suggests Oestraclin as an alternative as it's cheap and OTC (in Spain) - if anyone has used Oestraclin and knows how to measure it I'd be very grateful - thanks!
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I looked into this when I was considering buying OTC in Spain. A Google search for 'Oestraclin Instructions' brought up this pharmacy page but it refers to Oestrogel in a tube and a spatula for measuring. Presumably the instructions are the same for either as they appear to be identical products. The amount suggested is the standard dose 'though (equivalent to 2 pumps of Oestrogel) so you might want to start of half that dose and titrate upwards, depending on symptom relief.
If you scroll down the page, it's under 'How Oestrogel should be used':https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-297-oestrogel.aspx
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Thanks Saffy - yes i think the problem is that mine should have come with a spatula but it has a vaginal applicator instead which I think is just a packing mistake as you're not supposed to apply it like that - it's definitely the right stuff though.
I tried using an amount similar to one pump of bioidentical estrogen or progesterone and feel loads better already so I think I'll stick with that for a bit and see how things go ...
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There is actually a mark for 2.5 and for 1.25 on the "stick" of the applicator - that didn't make sense as I presumed it was to do with filling the applicator and that wouldn't actually work but maybe it's a dual purpose tool for measuring the gel and also using to insert utrogestan or whatever (even though there's only oestraclin gel in pack). So although it would be difficult to balance the gel on (as it's straw shaped not flat) I could use it as a measure - I'll try that out tomorrow! Thanks Stellajane :)
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I had a look on YouTube for you. I've found this video (in Spanish) showing both types of applicator. If yours is the syringe type, I think you would draw out the gel to the 1 or 2 mark (start with 1) and then apply to arm or leg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1CPI2EtRCU
I hope that helps.
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Hi Nikkisyard - not sure if we've spoken? However if you are 5 years post-meno I would continue with the 1 pump for a few weeks until your body acclimatises and then increase to two pumps if you feel you need to and with your doctor's approval. If you have been without oestrogen for that long then there are bound to be side effects so you want to minimise these by reintroducing oestrogen gradually - I would say.
In terms of the progesterone - you have been given advice already - and it's a question of whether you want to bleed or not and take as discussed. Docs often get the dose of this wrong anyway (in UK) if they are unfamiliar with it! It's difficult to say when to start - you don't know (presumably) whether your womb lining might have built up a little since menopause and therefore need to shed ( ie maybe a heavier bleed to start with) or because you are so long snce menopause, whether it will have atrophied in which case minimal progesterone mnay be needed at first.
Personally, to be on the safe side I would introduce the 200 mg for 12 days once you have been taking oestrogen for 14 days (approx) and see if you get a bleed and then take it from there ( with your doc's supervision).
As Stellajane says - best to see how well you tolerate both hormones so starting sequentially is the way to go - and if you are oK with the prog then taking it continuously may well be more convenient (unless using vaginally and in a relationship). You might even be able to try a long cycle like we do so taking progesterone less frequently (if you don't tolerate it well) but still getting a bleed.
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity x no we haven't spoken before and I'm sorry I missed this last time I briefly logged in... thank you for your time x
I actually did raise the Oestrogel to 2 pumps when I introduced the Utrogestan200 and all seemed to be fine. I sleep so much better now and have no flushes or night sweats (perhaps one or two very mild ones).
I stopped the Utrogestan after around 2 weeks (or 12 days? I don't recall off the top of my seive head 🤷♀️) but didn't bleed until today (4 days after stopping). I did feel bloated after around a week of starting Oestrogel and again when I stopped Uterogestan.. and now I feel REALLY bloated.. like the periods I remember and dreaded years back...
I didn't really want to bleed but after reading through a few of these threads I realise (and thanks @DancingGirl for your advice) that giving it a few months sequential use may be healthier as likely I have some lining to shed here.... just slightly concerned I may not be fully prepared for what's to come!! 😧 Might need to send an SOS out to the fella :o
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Thanks so much Sue LW! Yes it's a syringe not an applicator - i feel foolish now :D It's quite tricky to do cos you have to apply some pressure on the tube at the same time as drawing it out - it doesn't just pull out easily - but at least I know what I'm aiming for now! :) ;)
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Hi lovely ladies. Hope someone can help me. I am 54 and post menopausal. Began HRT on 08/06/18. 2 pumps of estrogel and 100mg utragestan every day. Had dizziness from day one. Some days much worse than others where I can't go out, other days its bearable. I thought it was due to the utragestan but now not so sure.
I scoured this website and read a couple of replies which suggested to stay on just 1 pump of estrogel for a week and then increase to 2 pumps for a couple of weeks finally adding the utragestan for 12 days. So I stopped the Utragestan and went onto 1 pump of estrogel on 10th July 2018 and had a 4 day bleed. So for the last week I have been on just 1 pump of estrogel and am still dizzy every day. I'm not sure about increasing to 2 pumps now as I'm worried it will make the dizziness worse. My hot flushes have practically gone and many of the other symptoms have eased but the joint pain is still really bad.
I feel I have swapped hot flushes for dizziness. Not sure what to do now. If I stay on the 1 pump will the dizzy eventually go as things settle down. I really don't want to give up HRT and go back to how bad it was before and I am hoping that I just need to give it more time.
I am happy to carry on at this slow pace as I think it helps me understand whats affecting me. I think initially taking it all in one go, I had no idea what was affecting what...
If anyone can help me out with this I am all ears...
Many thanks in advance
Kim
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Hi ladies,
Does anyone get a PMT a few days before the Utrogestan is due? I think I do.
Thanks
Spangles
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Hi, I am 49 years old, in peri and have been using 2 pumps oestrogel (all month) and 100mg utrogestan (vaginally 2-3 weeks/mth). In the last 3-4 months I have been having a period every 2-3 weeks which is quite unusual. My GP said probably not getting enough progesterone, my gynae said probably too high a dose of oestrogel. He checked womb lining which is fine, but said I have an ovarian cyst which may be the problem and stimulated by the extra oestrogen. I have also been feeling on/off a low level of nausea and had some strange digestive symptoms also. 2 mths ago oestrogen was at 1490, last month 750 (after reducing to 1 pump). My mood has also been off during this period, not sleeping as well the last month and feeling edgy and a bit stressed.
I cannot work out whether the extra bleeding it is too much oestrogen but have reduced to 1 pump a day in the last month, so far has made no difference, Or perhaps not absorbing the utrogestan enough - using 100mg vaginally (which is apparently the same as 200mg orally). The Dr who gave me the hormone therapy said to continue as normal but we only have telephone consultations as I live abroad (will talk to her next week).
Any thoughts, advice or similar experiences appreciated?
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I started Estrogel on 19th July and Utrogestan on 24th July. I am taking the Utrogestan vaginally, every other night in a continuous method.
So far, so good. The gel is helping a lot, much better than before. And the progesterone seems fine apart from one thing. I am getting randomly very bloated belly. It's gas. Occasionally it hurts, mostly it just looks terrible and my clothes are straining at the seams. It's not every day and it's not every meal. Hard to pinpoint it.
I suspect it's a side effect of the progesterone? Will it pass do you think? Anyone else had it?
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Hi ladies,
Does anyone get a PMT a few days before the Utrogestan is due? I think I do.
Thanks
Spangles
If you are peri-menopausal then it is just normal pms due to your own hormonal fluctuations but not to do with the HRT. PMs is caused either by progesterone itself, progesterone withdrawal ( ie a few days after stopping the progesterone) or a fall in oestrogen or a combination of any of these. Oestrogen itself is not a cause of pms although there can be some side effects from high oestrogen. I hope it's not too bothersome?
Hurdity x
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Hi, I am 49 years old, in peri and have been using 2 pumps oestrogel (all month) and 100mg utrogestan (vaginally 2-3 weeks/mth). In the last 3-4 months I have been having a period every 2-3 weeks which is quite unusual. My GP said probably not getting enough progesterone, my gynae said probably too high a dose of oestrogel. He checked womb lining which is fine, but said I have an ovarian cyst which may be the problem and stimulated by the extra oestrogen. I have also been feeling on/off a low level of nausea and had some strange digestive symptoms also. 2 mths ago oestrogen was at 1490, last month 750 (after reducing to 1 pump). My mood has also been off during this period, not sleeping as well the last month and feeling edgy and a bit stressed.
I cannot work out whether the extra bleeding it is too much oestrogen but have reduced to 1 pump a day in the last month, so far has made no difference, Or perhaps not absorbing the utrogestan enough - using 100mg vaginally (which is apparently the same as 200mg orally). The Dr who gave me the hormone therapy said to continue as normal but we only have telephone consultations as I live abroad (will talk to her next week).
Any thoughts, advice or similar experiences appreciated?
Usually bleeeding during peri-menopause if on HRT will be caused either by your own cycle kicking in or an imbalance between the oestrogen and progesterone. If you don't want to reduce the oestrogen ie you need two pumps to feel at your best then you need to increase the progesterone. Although theoretically you need less progesterone when taken vaginally, there will still be variation between individual women in how they respond so you could try increasing the dose to 200 mg or extending the length of time in the month you are using the 100 mg and see how you get on re the bleeding? However 1490 pmol/l is very high - although blood tests are not accurate and especially if you gave the blood from the same arm that you applied the gel (if you use arms!) and it was soon after you applied it? Also if you are peri it might just have been your normal pre-ovulatory peak - nothing to do with the hRT - when in your cycle was the blood test done?
Hurdity x
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I started Estrogel on 19th July and Utrogestan on 24th July. I am taking the Utrogestan vaginally, every other night in a continuous method.
So far, so good. The gel is helping a lot, much better than before. And the progesterone seems fine apart from one thing. I am getting randomly very bloated belly. It's gas. Occasionally it hurts, mostly it just looks terrible and my clothes are straining at the seams. It's not every day and it's not every meal. Hard to pinpoint it.
I suspect it's a side effect of the progesterone? Will it pass do you think? Anyone else had it?
Some women get bloating on increased oestrogen ( temporarily) and on progesterone. I use it (prog) vaginally but bloating isn't a problem for me. Boobs get a big bigger though. Hopefully these side effects will pass?
Hurdity x
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Hi has anyone noticed at the end of the canister the gel seems weaker? I haven't been shaking the bottle. It doesn't mention this in the instructions to shake the bottle. I am on 3 pumps so it lasted 3 full weeks. Just want to know if this is the case I will start the new bottle a few days early x
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Probably a bit like the end of a bottle of anything - the pump doesn't work as well - you know the thing like when the hand gel is nearly empty - you don't get a full blob! It's not likely to be weaker I wouldn't have thought but just maybe less getting dispensed?
Hurdity x
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Thanks I will change a couple of days earlier this time xx
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Usually bleeeding during peri-menopause if on HRT will be caused either by your own cycle kicking in or an imbalance between the oestrogen and progesterone. If you don't want to reduce the oestrogen ie you need two pumps to feel at your best then you need to increase the progesterone. Although theoretically you need less progesterone when taken vaginally, there will still be variation between individual women in how they respond so you could try increasing the dose to 200 mg or extending the length of time in the month you are using the 100 mg and see how you get on re the bleeding? However 1490 pmol/l is very high - although blood tests are not accurate and especially if you gave the blood from the same arm that you applied the gel (if you use arms!) and it was soon after you applied it? Also if you are peri it might just have been your normal pre-ovulatory peak - nothing to do with the hRT - when in your cycle was the blood test done?
Hurdity x
Thank you Hurdity, I spoke to menopause Dr, by phone this morning, she thinks that I should go back up to 2 pumps (alternating 1 day 1 pump, other day 2 pumps) a day, that not to take too much notice of blood test results. She actually thinks I should try testosterone to see if that helps. Overall I have had a stressful summer, on a positive note I lost 8 kg since Feb because also had some IBS. I also wonder if lowering oestrogen allowed body to lose weight. I will see how next few months go. My womb lining is thin. I will also pay more attention to using progesterone for more days in the month. Hey/ho, so hit and miss. Just suffered 3 nights of insomnia.....
Many thanks x
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Bumped for Emmapurple
Hurdity x
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Have been feeling OK since I stopped the conti regime and just used gel for 14 days (built up to 1.5 pump daily). However, now taken 5 days of utrogestan (100mg vaginally) and felt fine for first few days but since yesterday been feeling really wired, physically anxious, IBS and nausea and had last night had a terrible night's sleep. I am back to how I was feeling when I started this regime last month and lasted 10 days before stopping the utrogestan in August. Is this what prog intolerance is?
Not sure what to do as I need the prog, but another 7 days of this is making me feel even more anxious - any suggestions? And will my body adjust if I stick it out? :-\
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I go in phases when I take the utro - sometimes it affects me immediaely for the first few days and then I sort of get used to the new "how I am feeling" - which is more lethargic, foggy headed, until the withdrawal which has its own symptoms. If I'm unlucky I'll get a migraine at some point. I would try to stick it out if I were you and if you can cope, but pity you are getting nausea even when using it vaginally. Could this be the oestrogen if you have increased it recently and are you still having a strong cycle?
What I do also is to plump up the vaginal tissues for around a week before starting the Utro ( by increasing my vagfem dose ) in the vain hope that this will minimise systemic absorption. I have no idea whether this works or not or is just placebo as there is no info on it - just one of my pet ideas!
Hope you manage to hang in there Juliet....
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity :) You might be right that oestrogel may also be contributing as been increasing this from 1 pump to 1.5 a day due to a return of flushes. I will try to stick with utrogestan for the full 12 days and keep a record of anxiety, sleep etc. The rest of the day went OK in the end and so hoping last night was blip and sleep will be back to normal.
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Hi
I am on 2 pumps of Oestrogel and Utrogestan 100mg orally 25 out of 28 days. I also use Vagifem.
I've been on it for 3 months now, and have been feeling so,so much better. However,the last few days I have been having what seem like twinges just above my pubic bone. Not really enough to call it pain. Does anyone else get this? I do also get painful breasts, but not unbearable, and obviously down to the Oestrogen levels (just had a mammogram so all seems good in that department.
I'm really trying hard not to google it, as I don't want my anxiety to come back, that was the very worst thing that happened during menopause.
Would just like to know if anyone else gets this, before I start worrying
Thank you :-)
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Are you post-menopausal and without periods/HRT for some time? Could be your body "waking-up" or adjusting to the new regime. Also might mean you are preparing for a bleed? I get all sorts of twinges/slight pains - and never know what they are! If it's not a pain then I wouldn't worry. If it develops to be a pain and persists then see the doc just to check all is well. Glad you are feelng so much better :)
Hurdity x
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hi,
i am 54, post-menopausal and have been on utro/estrogel for 3 years. So far so good, i have reduced the utrogestan dose to 100 mg, 7 days a month (vaginally) due to progesterone intolerance, and upped the estrogel to two pumps a day. Despite these adjustments it seems i am not absorbing estrogen as well as i should. For the last eight months i haven't had any bleeding, my womb lining is very thin (2 mm) and recently hot flushes have returned with a vengeance. I wonder if my body has built a tolerance for estrogen and i should increase the dose.
I have always been very thin, and despite the menopause i haven't been able to gain weight, so maybe there isn't enough fat in my body to store estrogen?
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Hi foreign body - it's not a question of tolerance really - not at low doses, but oestrogen levels drop quite quickly during the two years following the last period and then continue to fall slowly. It doesn't really matter about the body fat because if you are replacing it at the right dose, then systemic levels will be high enough to ensure enough oestrogen reaches all the various target tissues (those with oestrogen receptors) so it can work its physiological "magic".
If your lining is that thin and you are not getting a bleed (despite being on a lower dose of progesterone than recommended) then as you say that does indicate that you may well not be absorbing the gel as well as you could be, especially if your hot flushes have returned. Sounds like you need to increase your dose. Are you seeing a doc regularly re your progesterone regime and can you increase the oestrogen dose and continue to ensure monitoring of the womb lining.
If the gel doesn't work for you maybe patches would be better? Amazing how diferent women are (re absorbing transdermal oestrogen) - as I know some women get much higher levels on 1 pump gel than I do on a 50 mcg patch!
Hurdity x
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Hurdity, thanks for your reply. I live in Asia and can buy these drugs without a prescription. My gyno supports what i am doing, but he knows very little about this regime, which is the result of my 'trial and error.' If i took more progesterone, or took it for longer, i would become unable to function, which surely defeats the purpose of being on HRT. As long as my lining is thin and my quality of life is good,
he doesn't object. He is more concerned about my smoking, as i tried everything to quit but failed. Luckily i exercise every day and have a very healthy, mainly vegetarian diet, my life is almost stress-free, my blood pressure low.
I had a pretty hectic summer, travelling through many time zones, sleeping too little due to jetlag and a more intense social and sexual life than usual. I felt good and energetic despite the lack of sleep and experience no hot flushes. As soon as i returned home from this 3 month-long holiday, the hot flushes, restlessness, brain fog, fatigue started. I will add one more estrogel pump a day and see if it helps. I too believe that my estrogen levels must have dropped
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Apologies in advance if I have posted in the wrong category, please just let me know it is only my second ever post.
Many thanks
K
Hello
I think you would do better to start a dedicated post of your own with a suitable title and your message inside. This isn't really the right post to tag it onto and you won't get the responses you might with a fresh new post. Just copy what you said and start again with a new post.
Sue
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Hi I have been back on estrogel for 12 weeks now but 8 weeks on 3 pumps. Does anyone ever notice one pump doesn't look like a full dose? This has happened 3 times now and knocks my levels to pot again. It isn't near the end of the canister. I have looked at the amount and thought that doesn't look as much as normal but put it down to being too paranoid but all 3 times my levels fluctuate and I get flushes and burning the next morning. X
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I've been thinking that this week. Some of my blobs don't look as big.
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I am finding that too and it is so frustrating this is the furthest I've got into using the gel. I was bad a few years ago tweaking the dose hence I never settled on it. I've checked all the information leaflet and online and haven't heard anyone having this problem. I don't know if my body will not react as much when I have been on it longer. Anybody know how to prevent this? I am priming the bottle and not waiting until it is really low before opening a new one. I go straight back into headaches sore breasts and burning as soon as I put the normal dose on again and have to wait again until it settles which takes a few weeks again x
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I always worry that the gel dose seems so imprecise and can look very different from day to day, but I assume it is OK as flushes are under control again and mood is better.
A quick question. I have come to the end of the 12 days of utrogestan taken vaginally, however I have only been taking 100mg as I was meant to take it for 25 out 28 days, but anxiety got out of control so went sequential to see what was what and forget the 12 day regime was 200mg. However, I only taking 1 to 1.5 pumps daily (alernating this but plan to increase to 1.5 every day), so would 12 days of 100mg be enough (not had a bleed yet)?
I am keen to see if this increasingly tetchy mood I have been experiencing this week lifts now I have stopped the utrogestan, but if it does then I am not keen on taking 200mg for 12 days next month, but worried that 100mg is not enough on sequential regime. Having said that if the techiness persists then it isn't down to utrogestan and therefore taking 200mg for 12 days shouldn't be an issue.
Been keeping detailed graph on mood and anxiety and although anxiety remains low and manageable, my mood has dipped since around day 4 of the utrogestan and been feeling really cross. It maybe I need to up the gel, but won't know until free of the utrogestan. I just want to find what works and forget about it, but have to remember i am feeling much better than I was before starting HRT and be patient. :)
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More of the progesterone reaches the uterus where it is needed when taken vaginally and there have been small scale trials suggesting that half the oral dose may well be sufficient. That being the case it may well be fine especially as you are on a low/medium oestrogen dose. See what sort of bleed you get and have a word with your doctor so that this regime can be noted and hopefully you might be able to have a scan now and again to check that the prog is doing its job in protecting the lining. It certainly should be very efficient at doing that when used vaginally - taken orally it can ve quite variable as much is lost through digestion and metabolism by the liver before getting to the uterus.
Re the bleed - when used vaginally more of the prog is "held" in the uterus for a bit longer than when taken orally so your bleed might be a bit later. Mine comes a couple of days after the first missed dose - so if last dose was Saturday, no dose on Sunday, probably start to bleed on Tues and full flow by Weds. We are all different though and I am long-cycle post-meno!
Re the gel - when I wrote to Besins recently they said the pump pack was calibrated to give the dose given, although there must be slight variation I would have thought depending on how hard you press - but I think it is designed to minimise variation if what they say is true.
Hurdity x
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Your knowledge and generosity is amazing Hurdity - thank you :) So I'll likely get a bleed in next couple of days and will monitor this. I am back seeing the consultant in November and can discuss the prog regime with her then and assess whether it is leading to this dip in mood and what the is the minimum I can safely take.
I know some women take the prog every other day and I am wondering if this helps with reducing prog side effects? Has anyone experienced moving from conti or 12 days sequential regime to every other day found this to be the case and if so what side effects did you have and how did they improve? Thanks.
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I take the 100mg vaginally for 12 days, the bleed starts anything from 4 to 7 days after stopping it varies with me. :-\
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I'm doing vaginally every other day and I like it. I tried to do it every day but felt zapped. Every other day and I feel fine on it. Still likely to have a light spotting towards the evening of the day I'm due to insert, I'm hoping that will settle. I am using 3 pumps of Estrogel a day, spaced 2 am and 1 pm. I suspect I might need to move up to 4 pumps though, still experiencing swings so my own hormones are still rising and falling and 3 pumps isn't covering it completely. But I'm happy with the Utrogestan like this.
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Thanks Cassie and Sue for your experiences. I don't think the utrogestan made me feel zapped, but the tetchiness and anger seemed to ramp up, however, I still don't know how much of this is just me and mid-life and general world shittiness. My mood really dipped in the summer of 2016 when my periods became very erratic and far apart, but we also voted out of the EU and all I have seen since is an increase in hate and division everywhere :o :(
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I agree with you entirely. Brexit and menopause don't go well together.
In my case my business of over 10 years is unlikely to survive us leaving the EU so I've had 2 years of horrible stress about it, on top of menopause from hell, developing hypothyroidism and the realisation that I probably won't be able to pay my mortgage off or retire!
it's not done me good.
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Completely agree with both of you, I'm the Brexit hater in chief! It's going to screw ours lives up too and we are going to have to take life changing action for our business.
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Sorry to hear that Mary. It's so hard to cope with. Screwing up our own businesses through our own mistakes is one thing. But mostly we don't do that. Having it forced on us... I can't describe it. My future used to look possible, now it doesn't. I have no way to pay for my house if my business fails. And as I rely on exporting to the EU as well as UK sales and all my stock is via America, I'm doubly screwed.
Menopause and hypothyroidism cause brain fog so that on top has made my life miserable for 2 years and no let up in sight from the powers that be. At least the other causes might get resolved soon.
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I'm doing vaginally every other day and I like it. I tried to do it every day but felt zapped. Every other day and I feel fine on it. Still likely to have a light spotting towards the evening of the day I'm due to insert, I'm hoping that will settle. I am using 3 pumps of Estrogel a day, spaced 2 am and 1 pm. I suspect I might need to move up to 4 pumps though, still experiencing swings so my own hormones are still rising and falling and 3 pumps isn't covering it completely. But I'm happy with the Utrogestan like this.
It may be that on higher doses of oestrogen that 100mg alternate days used vaginally may not quite be sufficient to protect the womb - but sounds like you will be monitoring it? I can't remember if your doc is agreeing to scan you on this regime just to keep an eye on things? It's all such a compromise isn't it - trying to balance wanting/needing higher oestrogen levels with getting sufficient of the dreaded prog?! Must be a right pain also juggling a thyroid condition too!
Hurdity x
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I have switched doctors to Dr Louise Newson. She said I can use 4 pumps of gel a day if I wish (currently on 3) and 100 Levo every other night will be fine. She said 100 vaginally every other day is the same equivalence as 100 orally every day, and is better for the womb lining because of it's proximity.
Before I started on the gel, I had a scan of my own in July and my lining was 2mm, no problems at all in there. I will probably arrange an annual scan myself just to make sure. I used the Mother Care scanning service and was so impressed with it I don't think I'll even ask my GP for a hospital scan ever again. If Dr Louise's new clinic in Stratford offers scans this time next year then I will see which option is cheaper and go with that.
Thyroid has been a nightmare because I was messed around so much. I'm not having that again. I know what I need to do and how to do it so once again I order all my own blood tests (because NHS just won't test free T3 the active hormone) and just go to the GP, give them a copy and tell them I want a raise by 25mcg a day. If they decide to say I can't have a raise at some point and I haven't got my bloods into the range I want and still don't feel right, I will just self treat. I've had it with them. They stood by and let 6 years of my life go down the drain with no help at all. I was tall, slim, fit and extremely capable of hard physical and mental labour and they didn't think something was wrong as I turned into a fat whale of an exhausted, crying, foggy, incapable woman in front of their very eyes. All I ever got was "you must loose weight" and "you must exercise". And finally "the elephant in the room (other than me) is menopause. You need HRT but I don't know much about it". That drove me to the London clinics because that was all I could find. I'm so pleased Dr Louise has opened up within an hours drive of me. No more whole days travelling and getting more of the same "you must loose weight and exercise" stuff. When I saw Louise I asked her not to tell me I must loose weight or exercise because I couldn't take it anymore. She said "you can't loose weight while your hormones are out of balance like this". I fell in love with her at that moment I think.
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SueLW - Dr Newson sounds loverly!! I have to go to the Dr's tomorrow because when I had my regular blood pressure check I told the nurse that when the GP upped my Amlodipine to 10mg from 5mg + Lorsartan I started getting very swollen ankles and a weird type of pink flushing on my lower legs when I was on my feet for more than an hour! She said it was common with Amlodipine blood pressure meds and as my blood pressure was fine and had been ok on the Amol+lorsartan (I wish these people could agree on something) I should get it changed back! - anyway I digress. What I want to say is...
I was on 1.25 premarin+5mg Provera continous - some of you may remember but after I posted (Screaming inside) I was advised here to drop my provera and see what happened. Well it worked I started to feel better, I had energy, I could sleep better, my head worked - my family said I seemed much better and I carried on with the Premarin only for about 17 day and that terrible doom and raging anxiety went away - but I have womb so I knew I couldnt continue without progesterone and I was too terrified (and I dont scare easy) to go back on the Provera - so I spoke to the meno clinic and got my prescription changed because quite a lot of people here seem to get along very well with oestrogel (which I though could be more flexible in dose than patches or pills) and utrogestan and to try it on a cycle. So... (here comes the point of all this drival...)
I have just finished one complete month 3 pumps and the 12 day Utro cycle (taken vaginally), I thought I would start at the right prescription to see what happened so I could report to the dr and then they wouldnt shout at me for doing something different. BUT..
But on starting the gell I lost that "this feels normal and OK feeling" (I could bearly remember normal but it felt like it??) so I though it might take a while to kick in but 2nd week still the same. Last few days of the Utro bit weepy as well as the first 2 weeks "flat" feeling. Its now 4 days after last Utro and maybe starting to bleed - just a bit mucky (sorry for the accurate description).
Should I have got that Ok feeling back by now if the oestrogel was going to work for me or do I have to keep going and it will all come right after month 2 and into 3. I am planning to do 3 months but.... The Utro seems to be ok for me and the premarin seemed to give me that OK feeling - it was the Provera that seemed to be the problem.
Is it possible to use Premarin and Utro together or is it just not something a Dr would prescribe? I did have in my mind that the premarin and provera might be ok on a cycle but dropping the provera made such a difference and it seemed to be the bad guy, I really dont want to have to add it into any mix? So ladies:
Flat (CKLD as said depressed - she right!) Utro ok - premarin seemed ok on its own - which way could this be going - cos I sure as hell dont know. See if I could have premarin on its own - that was the best 17 days I've had in 15 years!
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Hi
I'm sorry you are struggling with it. I don't know if a doctor would prescribe Premarin and Utrogestan. I can't see why not. But I don't know anything about Premarin. Isn't that the old fashioned one? If so, you would be better off on Estrogel if you can find your dose because it's body identical and going though the skin means less liver stress. But the dosing from a tablet to a gel will be very different. When you swallow a tablet a lot of it gets lost to the digestive processes.
I think you are asking how you should proceed. I'm not a doctor or course, just a patient feeling her way through this and finally starting to feel a bit better as a result of my recent changes.
If you feel flat then you are probably short of oestrogen. Too much is more likely to make you feel anxious and jittery. Flat and dull is likely to not be enough. So the tablet must have been pretty well absorbed in your system. Why don't you try using 4 pumps of gel a day (none of the menopause specialists seem to think that's too much at all, in fact one of them, can't remember who, says if you are going to do it, do it properly and get some benefit). Apply 2 in the morning and 2 in the evening so that you don't get a big hit in one part of the day. Your levels should be more stable if you split the dose. See how you feel. Do this now, when you are in the non-Utrogestan phase so that you can be sure how you feel is from the Estrogel. We all absorb differently hence why some women need 2 pumps others 4 or even more.
You should tell quite quickly if you feel better or worse from adding in that 4th dose. Probably within a week, certainly within 2 weeks. If you feel worse, jittery, anxious, on edge, snappy etc. it's perhaps too much and then you can reduce back to 3 pumps but keep the split between morning and evening. Your levels will come down and you will either feel like you do now or a bit better. If you end up feeling like you do now, drop to 2 pumps a day. And wait and see how you feel on the lower dose.
Being hypothyroid, I've learned over the years that when I feel bad, I have to consider I may need to increase my dose. But I also must remember that too much feels just as bad as too little and sometimes I might need to reduce my dose. It must always be there at the back of our minds. More might do the trick, but if it doesn't, try the other way. With Estrogel it's really easy and the changes settle very quickly. It's a bugger with thyroid meds as the slightest change takes 6 long weeks before it has it's full effect!
Chances are, you need a little more and that should also help you to not feel down the next Utrogestan cycle. As soon as I upped my dose of gel from 1 to 2 pumps in the first few weeks, I sat down and painted my toe nails. I hadn't done it all summer! So that gel is pretty quick. But after a week or thereabouts I felt tired again and so added in the 3rd pump. Good luck!
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Thanks SueLW - yes Premarin is the old fashioned one and I suppose it was part of the reason I went to oestrogel after reading about bio-identicals here. I suppose I phrased what I wrote wrongly - I know people here are not Dr's but to be honest, I am more likely to get answers from people on the forum which will point me in the right direction and somehow there is usually a common opinion -rather than 5 mins with a GP who says "I don't really know much about it"!! I know my GP is going to ask me how I'm getting on today and I dont really know what to tell her - if I tell the truth - that I am depressed she is likely to shove anti-depressants at me, and I'm not taking those again - they never worked in the years before - it's definitely hormonal.
The last few days I have been splitting the dose because I read a post here - 1.5 in the morning and same in the evening - maybe I havent been doing it long enough and I think I will up it to 2 + 2 for these weeks before the utrogestan as you say.
One of the things that drew me to the gel was that I could play around with the dose although I have'nt noticed any change from going up to 3 pumps from 2 a day which is what the GP prescribed to start with. So I will up the dose for a week and try to be patient.
The only thing which concerns me is that I have read here some people don't absorb the gel very well. I was obviously getting good absorption with the Premarin. My GP is no help she always asks "what shall we try next?" - like I should know! so I suppose I am trying to jump the gun in case 4 pumps dont work or the gel doesn't work for me at all? There has to be an answer. I feel a bit disappointed because I got a very brief glimpse of "normal" but now its gone again. That was the first time in years that I actually said outloud more than one "I feel ok today" :(
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The horse oestrogens do seem to behave differently than our own bio-identical estradiol, in some women - it seems to be one of those that woman love or hate. From memory they do have a higher affinity for oestrogen receptors than estradiol - and you were on a high dose at 1.25 mg.
Can you remind us how old you are and how long since meno and how long on HRT?
If you are still young and not been on HRT that long then no reason not to take Premarin and Utrogestan - but as SueLW says this would then be all oral HRT. If you have no other risk factors (for stroke etc) then your doc might be happy to prescribe it past 60 as well. If you have high BMI ( and I think other conditions like diabetes) then transdermal is preferred. Also oral HRT (especially equine) can depress libido due to increase in a substance known as Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) which binds free testosterone.
Yes there do seem to be some women who don't absorb gel well - but hard to say isn't it? I used Sandrena but it didn't work for me probably because I didn't match the dose with patches and at my age I didn't want to start fiddling about when patches worked very well.
Actually I've just looked back at your other post and I see you are being treated for high blood pressure? That being the case then best to stay with transdermal if you can persevere:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/atoz.php#GlossH
Hypertension
Blood pressure should be measured and, if high, should be controlled prior to starting HRT. Blood pressure measurement should be repeated 3 months after starting HRT and is then usually checked at annual review. There is a very small risk of conjugated equine estrogens causing a rise in blood pressure which resolves on cessation of treatment. In the presence of controlled hypertension, HRT is unlikely to worsen control; some recommend using transdermal (patch or gel) HRT.
Sage should be used with caution if hypertensive and St.John's Wort should be used with caution if taking antihypertensive therapy.
Hope this helps.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
I am 57 and GP says that she believes I am post meno Difficult to tell because I went on HRT during peri at about 47 if I remember. I was put on Prempak C and just took it until it was discontinued. There were problems but I didn't know they were problems like I do now. You will see from other posts I have discovered I have suffered hormonal depression and hormonal problems for about 40 years but I didn't really know this was the case until I got on here and when a lot of messing about with the types of HRT started. No doctor ever put 2+2 together for my problems but hey ho! (she says through gritted teeth with steam coming out of her ears!!)
No high BMI, only blood pressure meds which she changed for me when I went to see her on Monday. She has put me on Lercanidipine (I was on amlodipine and she knew all about the ankle swelling it was causing pretty much before I finished my sentence) I have cholesterol of 5 but bad CL is 2. My blood pressure has been controlled for years - no stroke or cardiac risk factors. All I can say is that when I had the Premarin for 2 weeks on its own (having dropped the provera following advice on here after I posted "screaming inside") it was the best I had felt in years.
My GP's mood can vary considerably depending on what side of the bed she got out of (if early morning appt) or the kind of day she's had if it is later :) on Monday she was grand and we had a good chat. I promised to stick with the gel/utrog for at least 3 months but she did say she could see no reason why I couldn't use Premarin with utro if the gel/utro fails to settle and I cant get rid of the "flat" feeling and low energy. Mind you I have in my mind to ask the meno clinic when I get my review about testosterone. I get the feeling more and more there is a missing element from what I read here. For some women oestrogen and progesterone don't always work efficiently on their own. Although you say about Libido being a problem on Premarin I don't remember that part of it although I wasn't keeping a diary. If I remember back to July sex was back on agenda and not too much of a problem. Your right Hurdity it's always so hard to be definite about whats going on.
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as we are all different and our bodies react differently to hormones, i just wanted to give you an update. A month ago i decided to increase both estrogel and utrogestan dosage, going up to three pumps of estrogel a day, and 9 days of utrogestan (vaginally) a month. And finally i had a bleed, urrah!
Before i was on two pumps a day and seven days of utrogestan, which worked fine for a few years but then menopausal symptoms started to reappear. No more bleeding after the utro cycle, hot flushes were back, i was losing my hair, my skin had become drier, i lost my libido and my womb lining was only 2mm. Now i am happy to report that all these symptoms have disappeared :) what a difference a pump makes!
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Thanks for the update foreign body. Assuming you are post-menopausal then it sounds like you really weren't absorbing the oestrogen from two pumps. It is amazing how much women vary with the gel and absorption. Glad you're feeling better! :)
Hurdity x
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hi Hurdity, yes i am post-menopausal. For months i had wondered whether i was building up a tolerance to estrogel because i was no longer bleeding after the utro cycle and started suffering from menopausal symptoms. The uterine lining scan confirmed it. I also suspect that being very thin has something to do with lower estrogen levels, as this hormone binds with receptors on the surface of fat cells. Fat cells, especially in the abdomen, can store estrogen, which may help increase the effect of the gel in some women.
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Hi I have been taking 200g of Utrogestan and one pump of estrogel for three months as prescribed by doctor. I was supposed to take the Utrogestan for first 14 days of each calendar month. Anyway I never managed the 14 days as I had a bleed each month starting day 10.
Doctor did a review a few weeks ago and increased the estrogel to two pumps, I feelloads better in general on the two pumps, however I took The Utrogestan ( I take it vaginally) for 12 days ( I didn't do the full 14 as trying to avoid a bleed while on holiday next month) .
I finished the Utrogestan 10 days ago but still no bleed ....any idea why this could be? And what should I do next month? I am a bit confused as doctors instructions are not the same as the leaflet in the Utrogestan pack.... I think I am still peri, but hard to know as I have been on several different HRT for the ast three years (I am 53)..
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Hello! Used to hang about here but it's been so long I needed to log in all over again. I have questions. I use estrogel (3 pumps). I'd had a Mirena coil in situ for years but wanted to try a more body identical prog so I asked for/was prescribed oral utrogestan 100, to be used continuously unless there were problems then we'd reassess. According to the info on here I CAN use the oral capsules vaginally, so that's exactly what I did last night, using an applicator to get it right up there. Today I've felt terrible. Awful anxiety and exhaustion. Is this normal? Will it get better if i continue with the new regimen? Anxiously awaiting your replies.
I should add that I had the Mirena removed before embarking on the estrogel/ustrogestan voyage.
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According to the info on here I CAN use the oral capsules vaginally, so that's exactly what I did last night, using an applicator to get it right up there. Today I've felt terrible. Awful anxiety and exhaustion. Is this normal? Will it get better if i continue with the new regimen? Anxiously awaiting your replies.
I should add that I had the Mirena removed before embarking on the estrogel/ustrogestan voyage.
Hello
I think that sound pretty much how starting Utrogestan, or any progesterone, felt for me. Receptors that have been underwhelmed by the hormone for a long time suddenly get overwhelmed. For me it passed. I do have to be on enough gel, but you said you use 3 pumps so it's probably going to be OK. If the symptoms remain for more than a couple of weeks I'd perhaps recommend you increase to 4 pumps and see how you feel.
For now, back off and use the capsules every other night for a week or two and then when symptoms have gone, go back to every night. You might get some bleeding but plough on regardless.
I use it vaginally. I just use my middle finger to push it up high. Keep on with it even if you bleed. I keep a box of wet wipes by the bed so that I can insert and then wipe my hands.
The first time I tried Utro I was only on 2 pumps a day, that wasn't enough and the tiredness won out. I'm on 3.5 now and doing a lot better.
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Hi SueLW! Thanks for the reply.
The good news is that I opted to take it orally last night and the change was remarkable. Firstly I slept like a baby when for months beforehand I'd suffered from terrible insomnia. Then when I woke up I felt remarkably calm and my usual morning anxiety had completely dissappeared. The exhaustion of the day before has also completely gone and I felt wonderfully energetic. Lastly, my mood was vastly improved. I almost feel like my old self again.
I opted to take it with 1 pump of estrogel at night applied to the inner thighs. The next morning I apply the other 2 pumps to outer arms up to the shoulders.
However, I'm still uncertain about the oral/vaginal options. Someone else here said it was bad to take utro vaginally for long periods of time. When I saw my NHS meno doctor and I mentioned the advice given on here about using the oral capsules vaginally, she gave me a very disapproving speech. When I asked her where she'd got her information from she just said that the oral capsules were designed to be taken orally and that's all there was to it. So who is correct? I'm inclined to believe it's the marvellous women on here rather than doctors.
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Hi monsterfromid - your doctor is wrong about the Utrogestan caspules. They are manufactured in France where they can be used either orally or vaginally - and in fact the instructions on the French database of medicines (equivalent to our eMC) describes them as: "UTROGESTAN 100 mg, capsule molle orale ou vaginale". ie soft oral or vaginal capsules, so no worries on that score. They are just not licensed for vaginal use as part of HRT in UK although the same 200 mg caspules ARE licensed for fertility treatment vaginally in UK. Bizarre eh? No real reason but yes they are one and the same. Some women may not want to use them vaginally long term and every day as they may possibly act as an irritant but I don't know of any research that suggests that they cannot be used long term in this way and indeed would not be licensed as such on the continent if it were deemed harmful?
I hope you continue to feel better - when taken orally progesterone produces a large number of meatabolic by-products which are not present (or maybe only in tiny quantities?) when taken vaginally. Many women find these have a depressive effect but a few find the sedative effect helpful in small doses so looks like you are one of them - so make the most of it and hope it lasts! It has the opposite effect on me - I feel lethargic and sleepy - calm but in a dopey sort of way!
Hurdity x
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Hi, I am on 75mg estrogen patches (changed twice a week) and 200mg of Utrogestan every day (orally). I'm anxious about taking it every day with no breaks because I've read that 200mg is the dose for cycles, and that 100mg is the dose for constant daily use. The doctor I am seeing assures me it's ok (and the best way) to take 200mg every day. But I'm still worried :/ Can anyone please confirm if it's ok? I feel like I must be getting too much.
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I'd agree that 100mg is the dose for a continuous cycle not 200mg. Personally I think the doctor needs to do some reading!
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Oh dear :(
Is it dangerous though? I mean am I taking too much? Maybe I should go somewhere for a second opinion.
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Is no-one else on 200? :-\
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Don't panic I don't think its dangerous short term. It may make you have some very unpleasant side effects because a lot of women don't like progesterone at the best of times let alone double the dose. I have an NHS leaflet on wall which tells you how to take Utrogestan showing the days of the cycle and how you take it if you are taking it daily (days 1 to 25) or on a cycle (days 1-26). The daily dose clearly says 100mg per day daily and 200mg for days 1-26 cycle.
You can get a second opinion if you like but I'm sure that it should only be 100mg and I am pretty sure that someone else on the forum will agree.
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I'll make an appointment and go somewhere else then. I've been taking this dose for several months - bit worrying :-\
Thank you for your help.
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Hi lisauk
:welcomemm:
Please don't worry - it's not dangerous! You are on a highish dose of oestrogen so maybe this is why the doc has given you a higher dose of progesterone as when taken orally it won't necessarily be sufficient at the licesned dose to protect the womb lining. The thing with utrogestan is that the doses for continuous and sequential use do not vary with the oestrogen dose yet it is known that the amount of protection needed for higher doses of oestrogen requires a higher the dose of progesterone. You might find for example that you get breakthrough bleeding if you only take 100 mg? Utrogestan is very good at protecting the lining when used vaginally (not lcesiend in UK) but can be more variable when taken orally due to variability in digestion and metabolism.
All you need to do is to lower the dose - maybe alternate 100 mg with 200 mg and see how you get on? If not bleeding then mention this to the doc at yoyur next appointment?
It also depends on how you feel too - many women would feel groggy and sedated taking this amount daily all the time as Ladybt says but will tolerate it (to an extent - and varies amongst women - some don't!) taken cyclically.
Hurdity x
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Thank you so much, Hurdity, for the reply.
I did try lowering the dose to 100mg last week. I did 4 days on that, and plummeted into a horrible depression. Scared myself actually because I genuinely felt suicidal. I put the dose back up to 200mg and felt better within 48 hours. I don't know 100% that it was the progesterone drop that caused that, but it certainly tied in time-wise. I keep reading about progesterone causing depression though - can it in fact do the opposite in some women I wonder?!
With regards to breakthrough bleeding, I still have a Mirena (been there 4.5 years) so I wasn't having any bleeding anyway, and I'm still not. In fact I only found out that I was menopausal by mistake - had blood tests done and found that my FSH was high and my estrogen was almost zero. I wasn't having any symptoms at all. I'm 46 by the way.
I just have no idea if what I'm doing is the right thing and I'm worrying myself sick thinking about it all the time, and googling, etc. As the 200mg daily of progesterone is causing no adverse effects I would assume I should keep going with it, BUT I just keep reading everywhere that 200 is the cyclical dose, and I should be taking only 100mg on continuous. I can't help thinking that taking double the dose constantly might have some adverse affect later on or something.
Agh I hate this whole getting older thing :'(
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Does anyone know where I could buy some vaginal applicators for the 100mg utrogestan capsules. I think the only way I could use properly vaginally would be using an applicator??
Thanks
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Hi jojo99 - I don't think there is a specific applicator - I use one which came with Canestan thrush meds I bought in Boots. They include an applicator for the pessaries so I use that. Most ladies use their finger! You could ask at a chemist if they have a pessaries applicator that you could have - explain and I am sure they will help.
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Hi jojo99
I use an applicator that came with YES lubricant. I tried my fingers but always felt not sure it was high enough. Hope this helps
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I use my fingers and never had a problem - also have very small hands!
Hurdity x
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Thank you so much, Hurdity, for the reply.
I did try lowering the dose to 100mg last week. I did 4 days on that, and plummeted into a horrible depression. Scared myself actually because I genuinely felt suicidal. I put the dose back up to 200mg and felt better within 48 hours. I don't know 100% that it was the progesterone drop that caused that, but it certainly tied in time-wise. I keep reading about progesterone causing depression though - can it in fact do the opposite in some women I wonder?!
With regards to breakthrough bleeding, I still have a Mirena (been there 4.5 years) so I wasn't having any bleeding anyway, and I'm still not. In fact I only found out that I was menopausal by mistake - had blood tests done and found that my FSH was high and my estrogen was almost zero. I wasn't having any symptoms at all. I'm 46 by the way.
I just have no idea if what I'm doing is the right thing and I'm worrying myself sick thinking about it all the time, and googling, etc. As the 200mg daily of progesterone is causing no adverse effects I would assume I should keep going with it, BUT I just keep reading everywhere that 200 is the cyclical dose, and I should be taking only 100mg on continuous. I can't help thinking that taking double the dose constantly might have some adverse affect later on or something.
Agh I hate this whole getting older thing :'(
Whaat - you still have a Mirena AND all that extra progesterone? For HRT purposes Mirena should be changed every 4 years although in practise it will still be giving out some progestogen after that. If this is the case then 200 mg Utro is way too much and I'm surprised you are able to function!! You would be better off changing the Mirena and not taking the utrogestan at all.
One reason for your change in mood after reducing the dose is a typical pmt symptoms and is caused by protgesterone withdrawal. Most women experience this every month as part of pms ( the drop in oestrogen also causes symptoms) - but the progesterone withdrawal is very typical - and can give headaches, irritability, and typical anxiety and tension. However it doesn't mean to say that you need to have progesterone to avoid this. Most of us get progesterone withdrawal symptoms, - it is like withdrawing from a drug, and once the progesterone has cleared from your system you should feel normal and actually better! In your case the drop from 200 mg to 100 mg could cause similar symptoms and the time frame for your feeling better is about right - and could be nothing to do with the increase again to 200 mg?
By the way when I said far too much prog I didn't mean it was dangerous! So - summarising - either get the Mirena removed and just take te prog or get it replaced and don't take the utrogestan. If you tolerated the Mirena well then this is your best option as it will protect your womb better and is like continuous progestogen - because it is released continuously - and can be used for contraception and both when yu are perimenopausal or post-menopause so no need to worry about cyclical or continuous regime.
Hurdity x
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The doctor I see for HRT says that we need Progesterone for far more than just protecting the womb - she believes it's imperative for mood and that it's the feel-good hormone. It seems that there are lots of different views, which is terribly confusing. Maybe I'll go back down to 100mg again then :-\
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Hey Hurdity, I'm glad you jumped in and said what I was thinking - a mirena and 200mg progesterone??? I thought it was a lot but after 4.5 years maybe the mirena's not dispensing much progesterone any more? Dr says "progesterone is a feel good hormone"- I know we need it and we should have balance but I though the oestrogen was the feel good and the testosterone converts to oestrogen (when we are fertile) and provides the energy and get up and go!
lisauk - your body has probably adjusted to all that progesterone and dropping it will cause some sort of withdrawal but then it should balance again. Like Hurdity says 200mg is not actually dangerous its just those of us who can barely tolerate progesterone at all (and there are a fair few) can't really get our heads round how you can tolerate that much ;) ;) :lol: My life would be so much easier if I could tolerate the right amount continuously like I am supposed to take - What is it they say - its like a stock phrase...."I was behind the door when (then you substitute what it is you think someone has got) the tolerance to progesterone... was given out!! - I think you got what I should have had!!
I would say don't get too hung up and worried about what others take or what we are "supposed" to take...lots of us here do a "variation of a theme" when it comes to hrt. Personally I think that your body will adjust to slightly lower dose and Hurdity is right - try and get that mirena changed and then drop the dose a bit. I think the generally accepted stance is you need the mirena really for contraception purposes as well as dispensing the progesterone to protect the womb or so they say "just in case" right up past 50. I knew pretty much I was post meno at 54/55 but my doctor still insisted I needed a mirena or to use condoms! Better safe than sorry...she said!!! She was sure I didn't want another baby!!! she said!!! ...my youngest was 21 this month!! too right I didn't want another baby. I was traumatised by the first two!
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Hi
I have been using Cyclogest (progesterone natural) at 500mg but now at 400mg for many years every day. I have not used oestrogen.
I am one of those women who find Progesterone calming and helps with my sleep however I have hit a low point with physical and mental symptoms so have been advised to come off Cyclogest and start on Estrogel ( I also have Utrogestan 200mg to be taken on day 15)
Blood tests in may showed Oestrogen <18 and FHS 70 so within meno range but I still have cycles.
The prescriber (private) said to gradually reduce Cyclogest which I have already started whilst I am using the above but I am wondering if it would be a much better albeit longer transition to come off Cyclogest before I start with the above as mixing all three I wont know what symptom is caused by what. I was advised to try 1 to 2 pumps.
I reduced my Cyclogest by another 100mg last night and from previous withdrawals it takes approx 2 weeks before I feel the dreaded PMS symptoms so it will take me about 3 months to be totally free from Cyclogest.
I just feel thats the most sensible way to move forwards.
I did apply a pump of Oestrogel last night and all was well but today after the second pump I am experiencing a tight chest and jitters, I feel "stimulated" physically almost like I have taken some drug like speed a bit. Jittery I guess is the word. It passed after five hours
Interestingly I tried everol 25 patch 2 weeks ago and didn't notice anything like I'm having now.
Perhaps start with 1 pump see how I feel ...increase to 1.5 once I'm sure 1 pump not causing side effects and gradually increase (?)
Thing is, I'm due on atm too and this is following the worst month of anxiety stress and depression which as we know cracks up the pms so I've had insomnia a lot these last 2 weeks more than I've ever had in my life...cortisone levels are high possibly.
I'm feeling more rational and calmer now I've had a pelvic exam as my anxiety was linked to health anxiety. I now accept my symptoms although unusual are hormonal and am almost at peace with them for the first time. Started walking my dogs doing a bit of work etc.
I know its VERY early but I am coming off one type of HRT as I am starting something I have never used before and I think it might be all too much and confusing
It's going to be tough enough coming off such a high dose long term Progesterone
Attack one battle at once ?
Thoughts?
Thank You :)
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Does anyone else feel that a lot of utrogestan leaks out? I insert it at night but by the morning there's a lot of localised dampness as if it's been escaping whilst I'm lying down.
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Does anyone else feel that a lot of utrogestan leaks out? I insert it at night but by the morning there's a lot of localised dampness as if it's been escaping whilst I'm lying down.
I think it's just the remnants of the capsule. If you push it up as far as you can you will be fine.
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OK. Thanks
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Does anyone else feel that a lot of utrogestan leaks out? I insert it at night but by the morning there's a lot of localised dampness as if it's been escaping whilst I'm lying down.
It will be the fluid (micronised progesterone in suspension oil) that is leaking out as well as the dissolved outer casing. However a decent amount will have diffused through the cervix and into the uterine cavity overnight where it will do its job. As it is taken daily there is no need to worry about not getting enough - the capsules contain a very high amount for this reason - and are designed to be used orally or vaginally (though in UK only licensed for vaginal use for fertility for some weird reason!).
Hurdity x
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Hi folks - forgive me if this appears in the wrong place - I've never posted on a forum before! Have enjoyed reading it though.
My query is if anyone has had an issue with dizziness using oestrogen gel?
I was on FEmaeven Sequi but don't think I was absorbing them - had a month on femoston 1 mg before the HRT clinic agreed to go for gel and utrogestan.
Have been using two pumps of gel for just over a week and am dizzy and a bit queasy. Am having problems working out how much gel equates to what a tablet contained.
I'm 53 - still on cyclical hrt as my own cycle has caused bleeding with combined.
Thoughts welcome!
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Hi Happyhooker
:welcomemm:
Not in the wrong place at all although you would be more likely to get replies if you started a new thread either in this section or new members to introduce yourself! However I can try to answer.
It is normal to experience nausea when increasing oestrogen - just like in pregnancy and this should settle once your body has aclimatised to the hormone being added in this way. Maybe you absorb it very well, in which case you could try a lower dose - often the advice with transdermal ( or other HRT) is to start low and slow and gradually build up to the level at which you find best deals with your symptoms overall for most of the time, without side effects.
What were your periods doing in the few months before starting HRT? Were you skipping many and were they few and far between, or were they still more or less regular-ish?
I hope the dizziness and queasiness eases but in terms of the dizziness, if this does not settle do consult your doc.
Hurdity x
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When taking utrogestan vaginally, do you use the oral tablet or the pessary that they have for fertility treatment?
Had PMS always, and now seem to be intolerant to utrogestan orally with my oestrogel. I don't want to risk mirena coil, and I doubt they'd do a hysterectomy.
I really want to try testosterone as well but my GP won't prescribe it.
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Hi Cath Laycock
Exactly the same product. The oral one is only available now in 100 mg capsules for HRT, but it can be used orally or vaginally - as per the French "base donnees..." their list of medications. It's only in UK that it is not licensed to be used vaginally for HRT for some unfathomable reason since there has been research done about this!!! I have never taken it orally.
Taken vaginally there are fewer metabolites - which are often what cause the side effects, although actually systemic concentration of progesterone itself is greater - according to one research study I saw.
Hurdity x
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Hi, Im new to this thread. I started utrogestan 200mg and Estrogel 9 days ago. I feel better already, night sweats and sleep have improved.
I feel like I want to come on. I am passed the day I would have come on if I hadn't started HRT. should I continue up until 14 days and then see what happens?
thanks
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I'm working my way through this thread - up to page 83 so far and have a couple of questions.
I'm post meno, (natural, at least 6yrs age 55 now), had been on Tibolone (plus very small amount of testosterone to top up) until last Sunday.
Now switched to Utero 100mg & Sandrena 1mg (plus testosterone at the same dose as previous, but aware I'll likely need to increase to manage my symptoms). I notice that a lot here seem to have problems tolerating Utero. I don't think I have a progesterone issue to all progesterone, just some. Levonorgestrel (had suicidal symptom when had it as part of BCP) and dydrogesterone (felt emotionally flat when on Femosten). I was OK on a Mini pill which I think was Norethisterone but I had bleeding all over the place so was only on it for 6m and maybe too soon to be sure. When not on hormonal contraceptives had very slight PMT, but horrendous period pains/back pain and digestive issues during my period.
My gynaecologist is keen on Mirena, but as it contains Levonorgestrel I don't want to risk it, which is why I'm giving the Utero a try. I'm taking it every day orally ATM and it seems OK. Little digestive upset second night but last night I took it later with more water and seemed better. Slightly odd dreams but not disturbing, and more relaxed than usual before I dropped off (never had a problem sleeping once flushes sorted). I was expecting to get a marked increase in flushes due to the change in regime but I've only had maybe an extra 1 or 2 and quite mild so far. Reading the thread it seem that migraine and IBS sufferers have real issues with Utero, is there anything else that's made worse? I don't suffer with either so keeping my fingers crossed I'll be ok.
I'd rather do a continuous regime and avoid having a bleed (due to history of period pains). I had a scan 2 months ago & my endo was only 2.5mm - so no thickening while on Tibolone. If I manage with Utero every day do I need to get regular scans?
Re the gel. Does it make a difference in absorption if you put it on the inner thigh vs outer thigh?
Those who are using testosterone as well, how much are you using?
Does anyone know how quickly the Tibolone should leave my system? My last dose was last Saturday, should it be gone by now?
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Thanks Stellajane,
The side effects would have to be significantly worse than my symptoms when I wasn't on HRT for me to consider not taking it - which I can't see ever happening. I can deal with the occasional flush as long as I'm emotionally, physically and mentally stable and the regular sex life continues ;)
Had various side effects with Tibolone but none so bad that I wanted to give up. Part of my switch now was a bit of an increase in flushes, but also that we're looking to move next year and the likelihood of another Dr OKing Tibolone and the tiny bit of testosterone was in my opinion pretty low. By switching to this ‘more common' regime I'm likely to be able to keep the testosterone too, which really makes a difference for me.
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Hi Sooze
You shouldn't need a scan if you are taking utrogestan at the licensed dose on a continuous basis and don't get any bleeding.
According to the product info Tibolone is metabolised very quickly into the 3 constituents but full information on the breakdown over time is not given although it says for one of them plasma levels are low and the other two - accumulation does not occur. However there will be changes in the body at cellular level brought about by the action fo the Tibolone constituents so these will alter but be replaced by the actions of the new HRT you have changed to.
Re the testosterone - that's for another thread. I'll bump up the two that I started - one in private lives and the other on this board.
Hurdity x
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Thanks again Hurdity, helpful as always :)
I felt like I had a slight flush this morning, before I applied the Sandrena, but other than that I haven't particularly felt that the change over has had much impact yet, so I'm guessing that's a good sign. I do think I 'feel' a bit better. Difficult to explain what I mean - I think you could call it 'wellness' I suppose?
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Just a quick update. I've now tried the Utero both orally and vaginally and I definitely prefer it vaginally. The drowsiness that comes on after taking it orally is quite nice and relaxing but taking it on an empty stomach gave me a touch of nausea. Not a big issue but obviously don't get any of those symptoms taking it vaginally and the drowsiness is less.
One thing I have noticed is I need more Ovestin at the moment. Whether this is a long term thing or just temporary due to the change in HRT time will tell. Anyone else find this (or that they need more Vagifem)?
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So a couple of questions. I've now taken 11 days of Utero & I feel OK (good actually)! So, I'm guessing I would have noticed significant adverse side effects by now, if they were going to occur - or am I not out of the woods yet?
Re taking Utero 28 days vs 25 with 3 day break - what's the thinking re the difference? If I'm OK on it I'd rather not stop it for 3 days and avoid a trough in P by dropping it. Also I'd rather not risk getting a bleed - I know post meno I probably won't get one especially as at my last scan my lining was only 2.5mm, but is that what the 3 day break is for? My GP said I can do either.
I have also increased T to alternate days as I've defiantly noticed symptoms coming back, and I've noticed an improvement quite quickly, which I think helps also.
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Just want to throw in something that may help the sensitive bladder ladies using Utero vaginally. When you insert it aim for ‘behind' your cervix, towards the posterior wall of the vagina not the front (which is the wall in front of the bladder). There's a small pouch, called the posterior fornix, and if you can tuck it up there it's not as likely to cause bladder irritation, especially if you sleep on you back rather than side. That way doesn't melt down to the front through the night.
I won't pretend it's not a challenge to do - long fingers, slight contortionist and visualisation of where you're aiming helps. I've been doing this for the past week and had no sensitivity of the bladder, admittedly I only had a hint of it anyway. Give it a try and feedback if it helps!
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I hope this posts to the right place. I'm thinking of asking to try these 2 hormones when I see gynae next week. So far I have tried Evorel Sequi patches and am now on Evorel Conti 50, but still get frequent headaches from a couple of days before period till mid cycle. The gp doesn't like giving me the conti patches but a previous gp suggested they would keep things more steady I'm 54 but periods are every 3 to 4 weeks still. Scan to check lining was fine. I'm sure the headaches are hormonal but drs are querying this... None of the migraine meds have helped and I think I was worse without HRT. Problem is, years ago I had cyclogest for PMS and it gave me severe headaches so I'm nervous of utrogestan doing the same. I'm obviously very sensitive to hormone fluctuations. The last gynae I saw was useless - told me that one progestogen was the same as another and if I still had periods I wasn't lacking hormones !!!! I've asked for menopause clinic this time but my NHS trust doesn't seem to have one. So I need to clue myself up before appt on 31st Dec. Any advice appreciated. Thanks
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Hiya ladies hope you're all having peacefull holidays.
So glad to find this topic.
Since surgical meno 4 months ago ice been on femseven sequi 50. And my symptoms have been poorly controlled.
Blood test showed esrradiol 129 pm/ol. Tbh I'm very confused over what it should be and the pg/ml conversion thing. But doc said it's too low and has switched me to easteogel and utrogestan.
I pic up my scrip tommorow. At the moment I'm on 2nd week of phase 1 patch so due to start the progesterone phase this Friday
I wonder if anyone could help me with when to make the switch over.
I'm pretty scared of progesterone overload as I've reacted realy badly to it.
Also. How many pumps would I need to have an increase over the patch. I'm blinking terrified of falling even lower in E than on the patch as my symptoms have been so devastating and abrupt.
Thanks for any advice or experiences you may b able to offer.
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TC - Don't be terrified - nothing can go wrong so nothing to worry about - its all just about balance and if you dont have it at the moment then the only way is up! Depends what the doctor puts on the script. Gel applications vary from 1 pump right up to 4 (and I have heard of up to 6). Also are you on continuous regime or a cycle with a bleed? Apparently the gel absorbs really quickly transdermally and I find it much more flexible to deal with. If you have problems with the progesterone use it vaginally. It is not licensed to take this way but loads of consultants recommend to do this. Just pop the capsules as far up with a finger! (I use an plastic applicator that I have for canaston pessaries!). Using them this way distributes the progesterone near the cervix for absorption it doesn't go through the stomach or the liver as it would if you took them orally and you don't get anywhere near the side effects by doing this. Loads of us ladies do it, particularly those who have trouble of any kind with progesterone. I am particularly progesterone intolerant and I can manage it, but I cant take it orally.
I believe that there is no sort of straight comparison between doses in patches against doses of gel but someone like Hurdity is better equipped to comment on that. I increased my gel from 1 pump on each thigh until my sweats, panicks, etc went away.
The gel takes time to build if you figures are low, I am on 4 pumps which is by conventional comments the "highest" but I have heard some women on here us up to 6.
As you are poorly managed anyway, you cant go wrong and you don't need to start slowly either. Your body needs the estrogen. Someone will tell you how to switch over - I'm not very good a counting days and cycles to be honest for others!
Dont worry this change is a good thing and just keep posting about how you are feeling each day and then you will be supported as you go along. Mine took 4 months to fix most of the problems, not all mind, but I was not like you with a surgical meno - your body needs to adjust from the shock, the fact it's been left without proper support etc but the only way now is up. :great:
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Thanks lady.such an encouraging reply will keep posting. Xx
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Hiya ladies. Well it doesn't look like I'm gonna get my new scrip til new year now. GP said they haven't received the fax from specialist!!
I'm due to switch to phase 2 (inc.progrst) tommorow and the very thought is making me anxious. I am dreading it the phase 2 patches have had a devastating affect on my mental health.
I'm thinking of not using the phase 2 and just sticking on another phase 1 for a third week. I haven't had a bleed on 3 months of femseven sequi. I don't know if swapping the phase 2 for a phase 1 would be dangerous. But my experience of this type of progesterone (my only hrt I've tried so far) is making me afraid of it.
Help! Please
Best wishes to allx
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Hello there,
I am 48 peri menopausal started on Oestrogel 2 pumps and Utrogestan 100mg for 25 days (break for 4 to 5 days for period). Bit of testosterone if required. (I switched to taking Utrogestan vaginally for better sleep).
Initially I felt fantastic almost immediately. My brain fog lifted my memory was better and I just felt so much better.
I found the testosterone too much so I stopped that. From zero libido to crazy! :o
Then I started to have tingling breasts, looked it up and saw it may be too much Oestrogel so reduced this to 1.5 pumps. Tingling went away.
Now 4 or 5 months in I am feeling back to rubbish. Brain fog, can't remeber names or normal words like house for goodness sakes!
I'm irritable and angry and my hair is just falling out all over the place. I have long hair and it's about half the thickness now it usually is. Mood is terrible. I'm so tired and back to terrible insomnia. Feeling just horrible and fed up with myself. :'(
Really I feel like just throwing it all away. I know I should return to the doctor up in Harley Strert but it's so expensive and we can't really afford it as all the tests they do push the bill up enormously.
I know this is a trial and error thing and I do get my prescriptions from my GP do I see him? He seems not to know much about it all.
Sorry everyone, having a bad day :'( :( and just can't seem to make any decisions. I'm just totally fed up with this all. I absolutely hate myself my emotions are erratic and I'm so angry!!!! For no reason! >:(. Literally can not control myself emotionally. Periods are still a nightmare.
Can anyone help guide me please? :'(
Thank you x
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Hi anon2021,
You are in peri so your own hormones are still fluctuating and mixing in with your oestro and Utrogestan. I would slowly start to up your oestrogel again. As we move towards the end of peri and then out the other side to post the ostrogen can drop suddinly.
GP's (my own included) and consultants say you can up the gel pumps to 4 - that is what I use each day (2 on each thigh) In fact one lady commented on here that in rare occasions when ladies dont absorb the gel well they can use 6 pumps but I would say this is fairly unusual. Personally I think your oestrogen has dropped and your body cannot cope so you need some more, they are all the signs of low oestrogen. I got some tingling intitially but after a couple of weeks it stopped as my doses settled. I have been on 4 pumps for 3 months out of the 5 I have been on oestrogel and Utrogetstan as a cycle. I am post meno but am progesterone intolerant so cannot the utro continuously - I have to have a bleed but for me it is no problem.
The thing about the gel is it is flexible and your really cannot go wrong nor to be honest do you need much guidance to up the dose. The only thing is that if you use more pumps you will use your gel up quicker and need more repeat prescriptions. Just make an appointment and tell him (dont ask if he is a bit clueless) that "you know you can use up to 4 pumps a day - your symptoms are back so you will be using it up quicker - can you change the repeat prescription because of that" or if there is a lady doctor in the practice - see her! No need to see a consultant. (if you really wanted to - do it by phone consultation - you dont have to physically go but the GP should be fine for this. You just need to sound like you know what you need to do ;) As long as you keep taking the standard Utrogestan dose and dont change that in any way you pretty much cannot go wrong. Up it again to 2 pumps then to 2.5 and then up to 4 if you have to. Keep a diary about how you feel and up it half a pump per week at a time - see how you go I reckon your symptoms will go away. There is no reason why they shouldn't. The peri thing makes it more likely you need to keep adjusting the dose - if you have enough it is easy enough for you to do - you can always drop it down again and there is not need to tell anyone if you have enough supply. It is very much trial and error more so in peri.
Let us know what you think?
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Thank you Ladybt28!!! Clearly I'm all over the shop but totally agree. In fact yesterday and today I did my normal morning Oestrogel dose and then added one in the evening to see if that helped even things out. But just to throw a spanner in the works I started a light bleed as well even though it's only 20 days since my last and I've not missed any dose of either Oestrogel or Utrogestan!
Hey ho, probably helps explain why I was feeling so bonkers as was obvs pre-mentsrual!
Thank you so much for your reply and advice. Really appreciated! Reading all the posts I can clearly see this will be an ongoing trial and error situation and that I can feel confident I'm not going to overdo things and can trust my instincts!
Many thanks again xx
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Hello All, I am new to this group but really grateful to read your comments & useful ideas. I have been a taking Utrogestan 100mg daily for 10 days, GP said to take it continuously as I am post-menopausal. Also using 2 pumps of Estrogel daily. I have a couple of questions I hope you can help me with:
1. Could I be progesterone intolerant - very tearful, significant low mood, can't cope, worrying all the time. I had these symptoms before starting HRT but now it's how I feel daily. :'(
2. Anyone else taking Utrogestan continuously?
Thank you for your help
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There are women taking utrogestan continuously - (Dotty is one - maybe she will see this!) but it can give rise to pms symptoms in some women. The best way to see if it is the progesterone or the HRT generally causing the problems is to start HRT with oestrogen only and then introduce the progesterone ie taken cyclically. This does give a withdrawal bleed but you would be able to adjust to the oestrogen first and see how you felt.
Utrogestan taken orally can also give more side effects due to the metabolic breakdown by the liver - there are many metabolites produced which can sometimes affect some women. In this case vaginal use is preferred although this is off licence. For obvious reasons most women in a relationship would not want to take it vaginally on a continuous basis and also it can cause bladder irritation temporarily when taken this way.
I presume you are definitely post-menopausal (ie absence of natural period for at least 12 months) hence the continuous progesterone?
If you feel like it, maybe stop the progesterone for a couple of weeks and see how you feel ( you may bleed) and then reintroduce it? When taken cyclically 200 mg is the dose. Alternatively you could keep on with it and see if the side effects settle - after all you have only been taking it for 10 days and 3 months is the usually accepted time to try a particular HRT type and allow the body to settle.
Hurdity x
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Hurdity, thank you for advice, it's helped confirm what I have been reading in this forum.
I will have to give it some time to settle I know. In desparation I am using 2 pumps of Estrogel as opposed to 1 which my GP prescribed. In the meantime I may try some herbal therapies to treat PMS symptoms.
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Debra66,
I'm taking Uterogestan continuously, although I'm only on the first month and besides the first 4 or 5 days I've been taking it vaginally. It definitely suits me best that way, but I have found that I need a small amount of Ovestin externally at night too to keep everything comfortable since starting it.
Were you on any other HRT before starting this regime and if you were what issues did you have?
If you were on nothing before it'll definitely take a while for you to feel the full benefit, possibly 3-6m I would think. You may get gradual improvement but don't expect anything to happen overnight. Unfortunately it's difficult to be patient when we have to deal with such debilitating symptoms :'(
HTH.
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Hello Sooze,
Yes this is my first go at HRT.
I have 1 pump estrogel in the morning & 1 at night. I understand that it's going to take a while, but as you say, it's so hard to function & deal with the symptoms. What's surprised me is I had no symptoms through Peri & now after 18 months since last period; :'( unbelievable low mood etc.
Thank you for your supportive comments & reassurance x
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So an update and looking for a bit of reassurance/advice. As I seem to be Ok on the Uterogestan I've continued on 100mg vaginally but noticed a bit of spotting when I inserted it tonight (day 28). Now I did increase the Sandrena to 1½ sachets last Friday as I was get flushing on waking, which it seems to have helped, but could this have triggered the spotting, and should I go back to 1 sachet? My GP said to try 1 sachet for around a month and up it to 2 if my symptoms weren't being controlled.
I'm going to continue with the continuous Uterogestan but I want to minimise the chance of the spotting developing to anything more - I'm going on holiday later this week. I know breakthrough bleeding is common in the first few months of changing regimes and I don't feel like a bleed is looming - but it's been so long since I've had one I might be mistaken.
Any thoughts or advice?
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I have been on 2 pumps of Estrogel for 5 cycles now and initially was on 9 days of oral Utrogestan which I then asked to up to the normal dose of 12 days as I was worried about my lining. I am 49 and Peri-Meno with regular cycles of 24-26 days. My main symptoms are/ were insomnia, low mood and horrible anxiety. Initially I felt wonderful and have had a few good months. My GP did tell me she thought I was progesterone intolerant due to my history.
Right now I am feeling worse than I have every felt. I am on day 11 of taking the Utrogeston and my low mood and anxiety have been building up to this over a week. I am crying and feel like I have PMS on hyperdrive. My period is a few days late and I can feel my ovaries pulsating. I am also having problems sleeping. I am wondering if it is the Utrogeston. I am seeing a great Meno Specialist but she is very busy and I am time limited and £ limited when I go see her. She has recommended that I swap to the Mirena coil but after reading up on it I am scared about this as I may not be able to tolerate the progesterone. Apparently my local, very busy, doctors surgery has a GP that is clued up on the meno. Perhaps I should go see her.
I am not sure if this is relevant but I have only vary rarely taken any medication in my life. For example the last time I took a paracetamol or a Nurofen was about 15 years ago. If I take anything over the shelf like a Nytol or something to help me sleep it usually hits me like a bus whereas it doesn't do anything for other people. I am thinking that maybe my system is not liking the Utrogeston. I've read you can take this vaginally but my GP didn't recommend this to me.
I need to do something but I seem to have lost all the fight in me.
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AngsanaBlossom - often GP's don't recommend to take it vaginally but quite a few consultants do and many of us on here take t that way it is perfectly ok. It tends to work better if you are progesterone intolerant because it is not going through the stomach and therefore not being processed by the liver. I take it that way and I'm bad with progesterone. I take it 12 days on a cycle vaginally 2 of the 100m capsules and push it as far up as you can. The body absorbs it locally. Works fine.
Ref the sleeping if you are taking progesterone orally then it should be having a sedative effect when taken that way so I don't think it is that. What I would say is that when your are younger and in peri, your own hormones tend to kick in and out on an irregular basis and interact with the hrt you are taking. Because it is peri some months you will get surge and other months the body will produce hardly any which is why in peri you get times when your hrt seems to be controlling symptoms and then other times when you are not. There may be nothing wrong with your HRT regime at all.
I have read on here with some ladies that they up their oestrogel when they are feeling anxious because oestrogen is the feel good hormone and so it balances out any of their own drops in oestrogen and/or progesterone surges.
I know what you mean about losing all your fight - my meno journey has been pretty bad I had all the problems, nausea, anxiety, panic attacks off the scale, insommnia, joint pain etc etc - I am now post but by and large have got rid of all but insomnia (dont use nytol but natural melotonin that is what the body produces, otherwise I am like you cant wake up or feel hungover!) and depression using 4 pumps oestrogel and utrogestan 200mg 12 days cycle. I am about to get some testosterone to help with the low libido and depression. It has taken me 5 months to get to here so it can take a while to settle but you are more likely to get fluctuations when you are peri.
don't have any definite answers can only say from my experience and what I know. Hurdity is usually able to comment on these situations so she might be along soon. Hope what I say might make some sense to you though and along with some others advice maybe you will form a plan in your head. GP's don't always have the answers we know our own bodies best.
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Thank you Ladybt28, that makes a lot of sense and I really appreciate you taking the time to write that. Sometimes the madness of it all is the main problem. If I can educate myself on what is happening to me then perhaps I can cope with it better.
I am going to take the Progesterone vaginally and see how that works out next cycle. Failing that, I will look into the Mirena Coil. I just hope my husband can put up with me until the end of all of this.
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No worries AngsanaBlossom - its a steep learning curve - so have a read of lots of posts on the forum. The more you read the more it makes sense and starts to resonate with how you are feeling personally and the other thing I would say is, generally there is no quick fix, minimum 3 months of anything and as I said sometimes you have to change tack and try something else and then you start the 3 months count down again cos it didn't come right the first time! You just have to hang on in there rather than give up really. Get hubby to read the section on here "info for husbands" - it's a real eye opener - he should be on board after that!! ;D
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Hiya ladies.
Utrogestan. As you know my gp has said my gynae didn't give instructions on how to take it and the sticker on the box says take as directed...
I started 3 weeks ago and My plan was to take it every day until my appointment with gynae tommorow which meant I would've been on it for 21 days and I could then ask about it but....
My appt has been moved to two weeks time which means I will have been taking it for 35 straight days by then.
My leaflet says take for 25 days.
Does "continously" mean that . if,say, you were on it 3 months you would take it each and every day of that 3 months?.
Best wishes to you all x
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Tc.... if you are post meno you take the Utrogestan every day with no break. Are you post or peri menopause? X
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Thank you ladies. I'm post meno (surgical).
I will just keep on with it til my appointment now. Thanks for that.
Xxx
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Hey Dotty, I am post meno at 57 and I don't take it every day? I think there is a choice as to what you do. I choose the system to take it on a cycle and have a bleed because it doesn't agree with me to take it continuously. The max I can manage (at a real struggle is 10 days) and that is agreed with my NHS consultant and I know there are consultants and GP's who advise even lower number of days for women who react badly to progesterone but have to have it because they have a womb.
I have a chart on my wall given to me by the hospital and it shows both regimes that are regularly prescribed to most women within the NHS guidelines (although progesterone intolerent women often have to go outside these guidelines for their own sanity!)
it says and shows in the chart: I have copied it:
"Utro 2 capsules to be taken 12 days in last half of cycle (on days 15-26) and withdrawal bleeding,like a period, may occur in the following week, or
Utro 1 capsule is taken on days 1-25 of the cycle and withdrawal bleeding is less likely with this schedule".
Does that answer your question Tc?
My chart shows 30 days total on the cycle - so it would appear to me that although you take the utro every day of the month up until day 25 - so you do in fact stop for a few days (depending if the month is 28 days long or 30 days - most in the year are 30 days) as Stellajane says. That said I am pretty sure ladies who take it on the continuous cycle here do take it without stopping.
Sure one of them will be along soon! but I can only tell you what the Bessins leaflet (its separate from the one in the Utro box of capsules) that was given to me by the meno clinic at the hospital says. It shows both uses.
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Sorry to butt in to this post but I am just interested about the 3 day break thing. I have recently started Utrogestan and have been taking 100mg but am a bit confused about whether I need to take a break at all. I'm taking HRT for osteoporosis (29 years and have menstruated so not post or perimenopausal). Can anyone advise?! Thank you
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I guess it's down to how well you tolerate it then.
I'm trying to push through to see if side effects lessen.but if they don't I might have to change to shorter.
Regarding the the withdrawal, i had a 3 day migraine when I first took it so if I'm going to suffer the withdrawal I think I'd rather do it after 12 days than 25.
At least it would give me a longer period of time without the side effects.
25 days plus 3 day withdrawal would give me no respite from it
Thanks for your replies x
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morning Stellajane :)
"as instructed by your prescriber" (have too use " marks sorry SJ still can't sort the flaming quote thing on the forum :-\)
You have set off my hugely (well known I hope) biased opinions on the knowledge of prescribers :-X ;D (in the best possible way I might add! - no controversy here ;)). Yes I know I am quite unreasonable on the subject but it is born out of the fact so many women's personal experiences written here show that most of them don't have a baldy notion (irish phrase ;)) either what is available, what they are prescribing or how to use it - they can confuse the hell out of us!! After the consultant when I spoke to my GP she hadn't a clue and our practice prescriber got my prescription all up the left (...and another one! ;D).
I rather like my Utrogestan sheet - it's pinned to my whiteboard above my desk - I think it's quite good because it sets out clearly both baseline options (if some of us with really awkward bodies (me me me) that won't play ball have take a diversion, at least we can work out what it is we have deviated from :) - see thems in white coats - ref meno - don't really hold them in high regard and yes I know there have been some posts lately about how great some GP's and consultants have been but they are much rarer than that ones which start "well...I went to see my GP and... :bang:)
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Check with your prescriber Jasmine because that's a rather specialised situation.
Ladybt28 - yes of course you can continue to have a cycle post menopause if that's what suits you best. Its all down to individual responses. Some women need to take it every day without a break because for example the break induces migraine as progesterone levels drop.
It would actually be better if the leaflet didn't say anything but "as instructed by your prescriber".
Thanks stella Jane,
I'm awaiting an appointment in May with Dr Panay as my GP didn't have a clue and just asked what the gynaecologist had said (he didn't say!)!! To be honest I've not got a clue what I'm doing but I will continue with 100mg daily until my appointment I guess!
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morning Stellajane :)
"as instructed by your prescriber" (have too use " marks sorry SJ still can't sort the flaming quote thing on the forum :-\)
You have set off my hugely (well known I hope) biased opinions on the knowledge of prescribers :-X ;D (in the best possible way I might add! - no controversy here ;)). Yes I know I am quite unreasonable on the subject but it is born out of the fact so many women's personal experiences written here show that most of them don't have a baldy notion (irish phrase ;)) either what is available, what they are prescribing or how to use it - they can confuse the hell out of us!! After the consultant when I spoke to my GP she hadn't a clue and our practice prescriber got my prescription all up the left (...and another one! ;D).
I rather like my Utrogestan sheet - it's pinned to my whiteboard above my desk - I think it's quite good because it sets out clearly both baseline options (if some of us with really awkward bodies (me me me) that won't play ball have take a diversion, at least we can work out what it is we have deviated from :) - see thems in white coats - ref meno - don't really hold them in high regard and yes I know there have been some posts lately about how great some GP's and consultants have been but they are much rarer than that ones which start "well...I went to see my GP and... :bang:)
I can so relate to this!!
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Have a look at Dr Renee Hoenderkamp's VLOG on Utrogestan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT3aSVfjb20&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3Tp6HMc0IB3qkzZ5QKs-2DkZ2OMLFVnq9Mb_3Gfj3nPbz5zN43__3UIeM
Dr Renée describes who needs progesterone in HRT and why. She then describes the different ways in which it can be delivered and how to use the commonly confused Utrogestan. In a nutshell:
Bleeding regimens:
Oestrogen daily
Utrogestan 200mg days 15-26
Non Bleed regimen:
Oestrogen daily
Utrogestan 100mg every day (no break)
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Jasmine. You and me both! . How are we supposed to not be confused when the docs so clearly are.
I like the idea of your utrogestan sheet lady. I wonder if I can download one. I'm gonna have a look
Xx
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Thanks dottyx
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Tc....have a look at this document written by Dr Louise Newson. She describes how Utrogestan is prescribed for 25 days out of 28, but can be prescribed every day off licence as it's much easier to remember to take it.
https://pcwhf.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/PCWHF-Easy-HRT-prescribing-guide-31_01.pdf
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Thanks 👍
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Tc - if you want to PM me I have an idea. :)
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Dotty, thanks for sharing those sources of information. I've found them helpful too!
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Jasmine_2015 Glad you found them useful xx
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Yes. Alternate days is interesting. I've found issues with using it vaginally on the days I use estriol. It just slides out whole so I've been persevering orally but with bad side effects.
I think I might try alternate vaginally one day and orally the next. I.e. the days I'm using estriol. Don't know if that might properly confuse my body.i realise I would still have no break from the utrogestan doing it this way but if I could take it vaginally every night I would get a chance to see if that helps with side effects and on estriol I can't do that time for vagifem maybe but that's another story.
Thank you dotty for the info. It helps so much when a lady on here is able to point towards helpful documents as I for one have got myself in a right 2 and 8 with random googling!
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Tc... glad the documents helped. I spent many hours randomly googling .... 18 months ago I was very, very ill with menopause symptoms. All I can do is tell people what has worked for me and what I found out along this horrible road xxx
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Of course dotty. It's all any of us can do. But it is so helpful for those like me starting out on the journey. Mine was surgical so overnight. But I hadn't even considered how bad it would be. And when it was I googled and became so overwhelmed. I have mentioned on here b4 about a site which realy affected me negatively with the agenda 're surmeno. I didn't realise it at the time but it was damaging.
So I try not to go Google crazy now. It was so counter productive for me at a fragile and vulnerable time.
It has made such a difference for me Being on this forum.and hearing other ladies stories like yourself.
Thank you.
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Struggling so much on the gel.
I seem to be getting new meno symptoms. Back pain. Bladder is worse than ever. And feeling so exhausted. Hot flushes came back when I switched from patch to gel too
I had to abort a walk this morning as my back and hips were killing me and my legs felt so heavy.
By this afternoon I felt exhausted, sick and feverish and shaky.
I had to go to bed. And I'm still here. Yet again too nausea to eat dinner and too anxious to sleep but too tired to do anything.
After 5 months on hrt i seem to be getting worse not better.i didn't expect new symptoms.. I know as eastrogen drops these things can come into play but I realy hoped my eastrogen would be heading in the other direction.
So thoroughly sick of hoping each new day will be better and it isn't.😭
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How much gel are you applying?
I've had to reduce my Oestrogen to 1 pump a day because my breasts have become so sensitive.
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Hiya ladies thanks for your replies. I'm applying 4 pumps.
The reason i upped it to 4 pumps is cos i still have terribke depresssion and anxiety which i guess could also be progeztetone.
I do feel like I'm not getting enough eastrogen though. VA is not being controlled by estriol cream and I've got hot flushes and very dry skin. I've t.these things might point to low eastrogen.as could depression.
I guess the only way to tell is to stop the progesterone. I might be one of those ladies who cannot take it continously.
I have a gynae appt Friday after next and I'm having blood tests before. My eastrogen was virtually nil in December.
I think I wasn't able to give the patch enough of a chance I was on femseven sequi and had issues with it staying stuck which I believe is why it has now been taken off the market.
To be honest if the gel isn't working I think
I would like to give a differe t patch a go.
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Tc....how long have you been on the gel? Sorry if you've already posted this somewhere x
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It's o.k. dotty thanks for asking. I've been on it 4 weeks.
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4 weeks is not a long time. It can take up to 3 months to see improvements and maybe longer than that to see full improvement.
I was on hrt tablets (1mg and then 2mg) for 4 months before starting the Oestrogel. The tablets did nothing and I was getting worse. It took about 6 weeks to see any improvement on the gel. xx
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Thanks dotty.
Part of the problem has been that I see the gynae she prescribes and then I've had trouble with gp getting scrip. I waited over 4 weeks to switch to gel. So when I go back to gynae it hasn't had long enough to realy tell how it's working but then I have to wait another 3 or 4 months to see gynae again so if it isn't working I'm stuck with it (my gp won't change anything without gynae letter)
.why did you switch to the gel dotty?
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were you 4 weeks without any hrt? If so, that's probably why its taking a few weeks for the gel to work. The oestrogen has to build up to a steady state.
I swapped because the 2mg tablets weren't helping my symptoms at all. I needed more Oestrogen x
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Oh. I see.I wondered if you switched cos of side effects.
No I wasn't 4 weeks without I continued on the patch until I got the new scrip.
But 3 months to see if it's working is now out of sync with my gynae appointments.
I think I'm going to have to get the gynae to put a back up plan in her letter to gp. To say if it's not working I can switch to a patch and to say which patch. It's the only way gp will ever change anything! And after this appointment on Friday I'm not even sure if I will see the gynae again as she is an oncologist.
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Hi TC...I've just looked quickly at your posts and a lot of what you describe sounds like oestrogen deficiency. I had terrible nausea; lack of appetite and couldn't eat. All of that went once I was on the right type and dose of hrt.
I've never had side effects with hrt. What I experienced was that the menopause symptoms were breaking through when Iw as on tablets as the oestrogen wasn't high enough. I thought they were side effects of the tablets, but a specialist explained to me that they weren't. Side effects get blamed for a lot of things when it's actually the menopause symptoms themselves. The specialist told me not to give up on the hrt and to give it time to work.
I must add that I'm not a doctor and can only go on my own experience and I think your case is different to mine anyway. (am I right that you are in surgical menopause?).
I hope I'm making sense. x
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Total sense Dotty. Thank you for taking the time to look at my posts. So kind of you.
Yes. I'm in surgical meno. I wasn't given hrt for the first month after and I crashed.
I tend to think it is low eastrogen as well.i can almost feel as though my body is crying out for something which is lacking.
So glad you got your hrt sorted eventually and felt better it gives me hope xx
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Hi Stellajane
I was on Kliovance and the Elleste Duet Conti....neither of which worked.
I'm now on 4 pumps of oestrogel, continuos Utrogetsan 100mg and Tostran (testosterone.) It works very well for me x
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Hi guys!
I must be one of the lucky ones(famous last words lol)
I have been going super slow with dosing, as per Gyn instruction due to breast cancer in the family.
I'm just having one pump 3 times in a week so, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Had the best sleep I've had in almost a year from the first day's dose only. Continued to see improved mood and ect for the 2 the weeks I've been on it. Tough have some tummy bloating, don't know what that's due to, any ideas? Taking my 1st Utro tmrw, and like Dotty has taught me, I'm being positive so it'll go just fine ;)
D
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Good to hear you have seen an improvement Turkish delight.
Someone else might have an answer about tummy bloating.
I have got bloating but i I had pelvic surgery almost 6 months ago so I can't be certain it's not the after effects of that rather than hrt.
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Hiya ladies.
I'm not coping well after a month conti utrogestan.
I want to cut it down but what to?
I can't see the point of cutting it to 25 days as I will only have a few days relief from it and if I'm going to get a bleed I might as well have bleedit after 14 days and at least have more time without the utrogestan.
I think i have read that i Will need double the dose if I do this and does double dose mean double side effects? Any experience please.
Given that during natural cycle progesterone is only dominant in the 2nd half it would seem to me that taking it continously is not something that would happen naturally anyway. Maybe I'm wrong.
Any advice please.xxx
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You cut it to 12 days out of the 28 starting the Utro on day 15. Yes the prescribed dose is 200mg for those 12 days but it has been known to be 100mg.
Start by dropping the dose to the 12 days at 200mg vaginally and do so for 3 months. It is possible to do it for less and play with the cycle but I would not do it to start off with until you have your body in some sort of rhythm You have to be careful that you are not playing around too much and the whole things goes all over the place. I was good and did my 12 days for 3 months before I started being able to work out what I could do and what I couldn't. Again I say to you, you must be patient however hard that is.
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Thanks lady so say for instance if I was going to do it today. I would stop taking the u for the next 14 days including tonight and then start on the 15th day for 12 days. After the 12 days on u stop it again for 14 .is that right.
I make that 26 days cycle.
Omg I'm so sorry you must think I'm a right thicko. I'm useless with numbers.
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Usually to make it easy you run from the 1st of the month to day 15 but I suppose you could stop and run as you say 14 days clear with oestrogen only and then start day 15. Looking at the calendar that means you start the utro on 27th Feb. Take for 12 days and then you should have a bleed. Then you carry on again to day 15 (by the time you have had your bleed days you are up to the 28 day cycle.
Look at the Utrogestan sheet I sent you. You just need to be careful that you count on the calendar and mark the days. I have to say if you went 11 days on Utro or 13 days, the world wont end....honest!
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Thank you. Thanks for your pattience. I will print the sheet off when i go to my mum's..
I've been trying to hold out til I see gynae Friday after next but I'm just about hanging on. Ive been in bed most of the day crying on and off ,Couldn't even contemplate going out. Couldn't eat any dinner again and just feel so depressed. It feels like it's going on forever with no sign of any light at the end
X
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Hi reading this thread with interest, i stopped my utogestan 200mg pessary after 7 days as just couldnt tolerate it.. im progesteone intolerant. I then had short bleed for 3 days, due back with consultant to discuss.. so was just wondering what is the least amount of utrogestan you can have and for how short a time? Thanks ladies x
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Check out any of Professor Studd's papers on the subject. There is an answer to your question but it is not widely publicised on the forum. Some members consider it irresponsible to post because they believe it cause women to have lining build up which they believe may be life threatening. It is considered controversial because reducing days should be undertaken with consultant involvement.
Talk to your consultant LW44. Some of Studd's papers clearly publish 7 days and that advice is widely available here and on the internet under various searches.
Was the 3 day bleed heavy LW44? Remind me orally or vaginally Utrogestan?
That level of depression is not good Tc - I got like that but I also got almost permanent insomnia which was like being wired all the time as it went on. I knew I had to change to a cycle and that continuous was no good for me. I was lucky my consultant didn't bat an eyelid.
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Tjsnks Ladybt28 ill have a look, it was a mid flow not heavy , so not sure if worked its magic :-/ but ive felt extremely tearful since it stopped for no reason at all.. xx
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I get a bit like that LW, but now I know how the cycle goes and that I know these feelings will pass, it is much easier to handle.I suppose I view it like I used to when I was fertile and had proper periods.... that you gets these feelings ....they last a few days and then pass. This is the first time since meno for me that any of this stuff has been "under control". Most of the time before the feelings didn't pass they just went like a permanent roller coaster. I spent about 10 years like that because my hrt was only controlling flushes and nothing else - it just wasnt the right stuff for me. Now I have to live with what I have because it is so much better than before and I reckon it is the best its gonna be.
It takes some adjustment and acceptance but when I think where I started and where I am now then although not perfect things are so much better. :) If you can stick with it 3 months - really hard I know - you will get a proper picture and your body wll adjust. It took me 5 months to get on an even keel and I am now 7 months in but I think the worse the symptoms and the longer they have taken hold maybe it takes longer to balance.
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It's a bad day. Just black. I don't know what to do.
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Yes thank you Ladybt28 read it quickly today at work, made me feel so much better :-) thank you so much x
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Thanks lady so say for instance if I was going to do it today. I would stop taking the u for the next 14 days including tonight and then start on the 15th day for 12 days. After the 12 days on u stop it again for 14 .is that right.
I make that 26 days cycle.
Omg I'm so sorry you must think I'm a right thicko. I'm useless with numbers.
Hi Tc
When I was on a monthly cycle (or should I say 4 weeks = 28 days) I didn't count any of the days as such once I'd got going. I just worked out which days I would have the withdrawal and then just started the prog on the same day of the week each time. For example I would start the progesterone say on a Friday every 4 weeks, take it for the requisite time ( in my original prog Cyclogest it was 11 days as prescribed) and that gives you the cycle. You never need to worry then about Day 1 or where you are at all. If working and want to feel on top of things then time it so your withdrawal happens at weekends ( in retrospect I think that was what I did!).
Hope you are feeling better today?
Hurdity x
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Hi reading this thread with interest, i stopped my utogestan 200mg pessary after 7 days as just couldnt tolerate it.. im progesteone intolerant. I then had short bleed for 3 days, due back with consultant to discuss.. so was just wondering what is the least amount of utrogestan you can have and for how short a time? Thanks ladies x
Hi LW44 - how long is a piece of string?
From what I recall (have been away so memory of women's stories has dimmed!) you were taking the prog to thin a thickened lining? You really need to ensure you take sufficient protgesterone to shed what has built up and as such you should consult with your specialist about how you feel and what to do.
As Ladybt says there are some women using a much lower regime quite happily under medical supervision, but Prof Studd's own research has shown that to almost eliminate the chance of endometrial issues (hyperplasia) then 12 days on average per cycle is needed. This is why most HRT preparations give prog for 12-14 days. The risk of hyperplasia increases the fewer days you use it and when used for 7 days I think there were several cases (in the study) of hyperplasia. Obviously we are all individual and hyperplasia does not necessarily lead to cancer and the absolute risk in any case is low - nevertheless any variation from thre licensed regime should be carried out under medical supervision so please do consult your specialiast about this particularly in your case where you are needing to shed the lining (apols if I've got this wrong!). It is so difficult for women who are severely progesterone intolerant and GPs should be able to refer women on to more specialist and individualised treatment so they don't have to suffer nor be forced to seek expensive private treatment.
Hurdity x
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Hi Birdy If you are post meno you can take the Utrogestan every day. However, you can still take it sequentially (I think it's for 12 days every month) . If you are getting side effects you can use it vaginally.
Is it the Utrogestan giving you the side effects or are you just experiencing menopausal symptoms? Sometimes it's hard to differentiate xx
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It is because it has been prescribed to you to take continuously. Don't let the word "cycle" confuse you. In this case it just means "per month". When using Utrogestan post meno, because we don't have a natural "cycle" provided by our bodies, what happens is that the hrt hormones (if you have a womb) create a "pretend" one so to speak. They do what our bodies cannot naturally any more.
As Dotty says post meno women do have a choice. They can take it everyday as prescribed or they can take it for 12-14 days out of a month. I cant take it continuously I have to do a cycle cos it messes with my head I get permanently depressed and tearful and have dark thoughts. Although I take it on a cycle now not continuously I still have rough days out of those 12 BUT I know those days will pass and I know what to expect so it is more manageable.
Hurdity is right about getting fixated on which days. but I would say it does get confusing when you start out so I have put this down which might help anyone struggling with days get them in their head. I started out doing it from 1st of the month and then if you need to adjust further down the line you will be able to do it easier I found. I now do as she does but it took me 4-5 months to feel comfortable moving my days. Also you need your body to settle into the cycle because basically we are "tricking" it into a "cycle" our bodies no longer have.
There is an Utrogestan sheet which I was given by the consultant which shows both on a chart: If you take it as your sticker says you take it from day 1-25 of any month together with your oestrogen. You stop the Utro until you get to the 1st of the month or you can just continue - different GP's/Consultants say different things about continuous utro. Both are right.
If you only want to take it for a shorter period of time because it messes with your head then - here is an example to consider for March.
1st March to 15th of March you use your oestrogen only. On 15th March to 26th March you use 200mg Utrogestan (I suggest vaginally to minimise side effects) alongside your oestrogen. On 27th of March you just use the oestrogen. On 28th March you are likely to bleed. I cant say how long you will bleed depends. So then you just use your oestrogel on its own until you get to15th April.
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Hi Birdy... what oestrogen are you taking with the Utrogestan ? Sorry if you've already told us this .... x
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Hi Birdy....have you tried Oestrogel or an oestrogen patch?
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Personally Birdy - although I have not had anything like your lozenge, when oestrogen and the progesterone were combined I found it very hard to work out which hormone and what level of hormone was working and which was not. It wasn't until I separated them out that I managed to get control of what was going on and which thing fixed or caused which symptoms.
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I agree with SJ - Birdy - the Utro on its own is the normal prescribed dose without what is in your lozenge as well. Does seem a lot and what you describe sounds like the symptoms associated with too much progesterone. Especially when your oestrogen is so very low compared to the progesterone. It seem too unbalanced to me. It would floor me completely if I was taking what you have been prescribed. I can't take 100mg every day let alone that and some more given elsewhere.
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Birdy....I think it would be a good thing to stop the hrt lozenges and to move onto Oestrogel or oestrogen patches. You will then be getting a better idea of how much oestrogen you are taking and the progesterone will be in accordance with your oestrogen.
Oestrogen patches come in 25mg, 50mg, 75 mg and 100mg......I would say that you need more oestrogen and it could be that a lack of oestrogen is causing your symptoms.
This is just my opinion xx
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Evorel Conti has a synthetic progesterone which might not have suited you. Blood tests are unreliable and you should go on symptom control. No one can say what your oestrogen level should be.
Try Oestrogel as you can take up to 4 pumps and you might find that you absorb it better x
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Hi Birdy....is this meno specialist a specialist in bio identical hormones? Are you paying for treating? x
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If I remember rightly I believe that Birdy said that the lozenges are made and prescribed by the Marion Gluck clinic in London SJ is that right Birdy or have I got you confused - apologies if so cos I don't always remember to put the right post with the right person sometimes.
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If that's the case Ladybt then its bio identical hrt and this hrt is not licensed for use in UK. x
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Hi Birdy
So sorry you have been feeling rough.
However like the others have said I think it would be better to take conventional HRT - I agree with Dotty. We can't really advise at all about hormonal lozenges. They are not recommended by the medical profession as the dosing and formulations are not tested nor standardised. Nor do you need to worry about oestrogen levels. All this sort of thing is very expensive and actually unnecessary - to have this private treatment, because you can get bio (=body) identical oestrogen and progesterone on NHS. Testosterone can be a problem - and that is the only hormone you might have to go privately for - at least in the first instance.
I agree you may be getting far too much progesterone!
Sorry I can't remember where you are in menopause but if still peri your oestrogen levels will be fluctuating still so measuring blood levels is meaningless. Even if you are post-menopausal blood tests are inaccurate as your levels will still fluctuate to some extent. Not sure how lozenges are absorbed? What time of day do you take the lozenge and what time of day have you had the blood tests? This will also have an impact.
As has already been said but docs should go on symptoms and they would do so on NHS. I'm afraid you are being charged probably unnecessarily and being given an odd combination of treatments! No wonder you are feeling a bit rough, I would say!
Please reconsider your treatment as you have already been advised, and hopefully you will soon be on the road to feeling a lot better....
Hurdity x
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PS just seen the other replies while typing mine.
Hmmm Marion Gluck - I can't add any more than what I said in my previous post - except to reiterate I think you'd be better off using proper HRT (still the body-identical kind). Personally I would ditch her - as you are not feeling as well as you should - and find a gynae who is recommended by the BMS...
Hurdity x
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Hi Birdy
I think what we are all trying to tell you is to go and see your GP and ask for HRT.....Oestrogel and Utrogestan would be a good choice (body identical). You can get both on the NHS.
xxx
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Hi Birdy...yes, ditch the lozenges and start on the oestrogel. Did your GP prescribe that for you?
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Oh Birdy - it's horrible and I really feel for you. It's tough knowing what to do when you feel so awful you can barely work out your own name when you feel like that! :-\
To be honest if you feel so bad, what is the worst that can happen? - you feel the same or maybe you might feel a bit better on something else. Well that's the way I viewed things when I was pretty bad. If you have it there, give it a go - although you will still feel on a roller coaster for the first few days as it is a biggish change!
Drop the lozenges and try 1 pump of oestrogel on each thigh to start with every day. Regarding Utrogestan - I think you have been having it continuously anyway. Try Utrogstan 100mg per day, every night vaginaly for a week and see how you go. Still gonna be rocky for a week or more but after 7 days you should be able to report something back as to how it is going. The progesterone may still be high for a while but after a while it should drop a bit and most ladies here seem to reckon that your progesterone is causing all the crying and despondency if I was on that level I would be filling buckets too! :'(
If it's still too high we can all reconvene and work on plan B cos there is always a plan b! :)
You will probably miss your testosterone but you need to get the other 2 sorted first, you can pick that up once the other levels are a bit more even keel. Forget bloods - what good are they if they say you're ok but you dont feel ok?
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Birdy.... please try the Oestrogel. I am speaking from personal experience. 18 months ago I was in a horrific place with this menopause rubbish. I was desperate. Look back at my early posts and you will see how bad I was. I finally got on the right hrt after a battle and I'm now doing very well xx
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Birdy .... I really feel for you . I've been where you are. Start with the Oestrogel and stop the lozenges xx
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Hi again ladies
I have been on Oestrodose 1.5 pumps a day so far) and Utrogestan 100mg (orally) for 16 days now. Overall I feel much calmer, which is great, but I am getting bad pains in my stomach (like a sore knot feeling in the top of my stomach). It's there when I wake up in the morning and eases as the day goes on. Also, in the last 2 days I have started to itch all over.
I think it may be the Utrogestan so I booked a call with the doctor today to ask if it would be better for me to take it vaginally. Unfortunately my doctor isn't in on a Friday and the doctor I spoke to didn't know so has booked me a call with my doctor on Monday! I'm not sure what to do over the weekend- she told me to carry on as I have been until I speak to my doctor. Not helpful! The itching is really bad so I've taken an antihistamine this evening.
I really want to stick with these 2 and I know it's early days but I just wanted to ask if anyone else has had these symptoms and whether they went away. Any comments/advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Jules x
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Jules.... has the itching just started? Itching can be a symptom of low oestrogen x
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Hi Dotty
Yes it starting last night but has got worse today. I increased to 1.5 pumps of Oestrogel today x
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Thanks Stellajane. No I haven't eaten anything different today. If I don't take the Utrogestan tonight or for the next few days, will I get a bleed?
I haven't had a period for 2 and a half years so am on continuous Utrogestan x
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Thanks both. I didn't take the Utrogestan last night and haven't woken up itching this morning. Am speaking to the doctor on Monday but am not sure what to do and whether to take it tonight and tomorrow night or not.
Will I have a bleed if I don't take it for a few nights? Any advice appreciated.
Thanks x
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Hi Jules
I took it for 6 days then stopped.. ive not had a bleed for 7 months.. after about 3 days from stopping i had a bleed not heavy and only lasted 3 days, hope this helps x
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Has anyone found that they started having negative effects from Utrogestan after being on it for a while, I've been on it for about 4 years on a continuous basis (100 mgs)?
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Yes, I'm on day 7 of the utrogestan course right now after using it for 3 year's & I've had migraine for the last 4 mornings when I've woken up plus I'm so depressed & emotional this cycle, I burst into tears earlier over someone's sick hamster. I'm never normally like this until the drop at the end when I'm waiting for the bleed. I'm 4 & half years post Meno & take utrogestan vaginally on a cycle where I still have a bleed. I feel really anxious & impatient too. 😥
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Thanks LW44 and Stellajane.
I have still been quite itchy today (but no stomach pain) and didn't take the Utrogestan last night. However, I went up 2 pumps of Oestrogel this morning and things have calmed right down today😁. Am going to try the Utrogestan again tonight and if my stomach is bad again in the morning, will ask the doctor on Monday if I can try using it vaginally. I am still hopeful that this is the right HRT for me 😁x
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Isn't getting older great! I was fine on Utrogestan for the first 2 years, then I started to feel not as energetic, a bit more anxious and down. Last year the dr told me to reduce my Evorel patch from 100 to 75, and the anxiety got worse, I went back up to 100 to stabilise things. The dr told me to reduce more slowly, which I did, but in January this year my anxiety went horrific, insomnia and depressed mood and ended up at a&e. I am already on anti depressants and have been for 20 years, and have been stable for about 7 years, I assume the lower dose patch made the Utrogestan more effective. I went back to higher dose patch to try to stabilise things, but so far not succeeded, so I'm now on sleeping tablets and anti anxiety meds. I hope things improve soon before I totally lose my marbles!
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Birdy ... sorry to hear that. It will get better once you get on the right type and dose of hrt. I speak from experience 😄 x
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Hope you feel better soon Birdy and to everyone else who's in a bad place at the moment. Life can certainly be hard work to say the least.
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Hi everyone!
I recently started oestrogel/ utrogestan regime having been on various other sequential treatments over last year or so. I am 54 and had my last 'natural' bleed in August 2017.
I've been taking 3 pumps of gel and last night started the 12days of Utrogestan -100mg vaginally.
Bit concerned today as I have already started bleeding! Not heavy but more than spotting.
Is this ok? Should I be worried?
Thanks
CH x
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Hi Crazyhorses - how long is it since you started this regime, is it new for you and/or have your recently changed from something else? Would you have been due to start bleeding now on the "something else"?
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Hi Ladybt28
Thanks for reply!
I was on Evorel Sequi, Femoston 2/10 and Femseven sequi previously. Generally bleeding started with these about day 10-12 of progesterone phase but actually didn't have a bleed at all in my last month of Femseven before changing to oestrogel.
Started Oestrogel -2 pumps -on 24th Jan and increased to 3 pumps on 10th Feb. Started Utrogestan 17th Feb.
Wasn't actually due to start utrogestan until 1st March(as recommended by Mater meno clinic - think you go there too!) but went earlier due to a probable heavy (and stressful!!) work load early March
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yes I go to the Mater. It could well be a combo of things. You didn't have a bleed in the last month and your body thinks it should plus it could be the changing over - things do tend to be very unsettled. To be honest when we are on cycles we are tricking our bodies into thinking this is the thing to do.
I wouldnt worry - carry on as you were planning - firstly as you want it over because of work in March and secondly because your body needs used to the change over. The only thing is I can't guarantee you won't have another bleed (probably a small one) when you have finished your 10-12 days you start on 17th Feb. It will settle down - you just need to see how it goes.
The thing was they had me on continuous before I changed to the oestrogel/Utro cycle so I had 2 short periods in the first month and then it all settled down to how it should be. The 2nd months bleeding was very heavy but from then on it settle nicely. We are all so different and each time it takes at least 2/3 months to work out what is going on before we need to worry!!! ::) Just hang on in there crazy!
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Hi Crazyhorses
:welcomemm:
Just to add also if you are still peri-menopausal maybe your natural cycle took over this month? If you started HRT when you were peri then maybe you still are, depending on how frequent your periods were at that point?
It's difficult to say whether the bleeding now is due to that (your natural cycle) or maybe oestrogen breakthrough bleeding if your lining has built up. If the latter (or even anyway?) then as Ladybt says you may well get another bleed later when you stop the Utro.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Ladybt28 and Hurdity
That all makes sense and I now feel suitably reassured!!
Now it's the waiting game to see how my mood fares on the rest of the Utro!
Thanks again
CH x
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Ah...as they say CH …."you'll be grand"! ;)
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Hi Birdy it will take a while to settle on the Oestrogel so I would leave things as they are for at least 4-6 weeks x
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I'm sticking in an update as there's a couple of odd things I've noticed. So I was getting what I call 'fizzy' headaches. Very short duration, maybe seconds, bit like a tension headache/sinus discomfort, happening maybe a dozen times a day. Not painful just annoying. Not worth taking anything because they disappeared quickly. I had similar (but less) during the first 3 months of Tibolone, then they stopped.
Also I've felt like I've had a bit of water retention. I used to put on ½ stone leading up to my periods, and it felt similar. Also some breast/nipple sensitivity. Hot flushes well controlled and no mood problems though. I also had a GP check last week, and although my blood pressure was fine it was actually higher than it usually is for me.
So the night before last I switched back to taking Utrogestan orally and I think I might need systemic progesterone. Headaches have almost completly gone and I'm already 4lbs lighter and the breast/nipple sensitivity has gone (In fact I'd say my boobs feel a little smaller??) Yes I've had 2 nights of bonkers dreams but I've woken up feeling OK so I'm going to continue with it orally and see how I go.
I was so worried about Utrogestan side effects, especially how a lot of ladies on her are suffering, I thought the vaginal route was the best option, but maybe it's not for me? I'll keep you all posted how things go.
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Thamnks for the update Sooze.
Some research has shown that systemic absoprtion is greater with vaginal use so in fact when used vaginally you could have been getting more not less than when taken orally! This might account for your increased side effects (those due to high progesterone) which lessened when you took it orally. However less gets to the uterus this way (orally). Oral use produces different metabolic by-products ( due to digestion, going through liver etc) - which can produce nasty sdie effects in some women - but these are different from the progesterone side effects, I understand. In your case - maybe you are more negatively affected by large doses of progesterone than the breakdown products from oral use?
So it's a case of taking it in the way that works best for you as well as protecting the uterus. You may get some spotting if it isn't absorbed so well orally, depending on your oestrogen dose and womb? Sorry I can't remember the oestrogen dose/type you are taking and for how long?
Yes do keep us posted - it's all helpful and interesting!
Hurdity x
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Hurdity,
I hadn't considered it that way, but I see what you mean. I'm on Sandrena 1mg/day which is working really well re flushes, as in I'm getting none. I've already had some spotting. Extreamly slight after the first 28 days and I think I used the Utrogestan for 5 days orally before I switched to vaginally. I also started spotting maybe 34 days after that which is still going on - but It's been maybe there for 4 -5 days, stop for 2 days only to start up again a couple of days before I switched back to orally and it's almost stopped again.
I know spotting is common in the first 6m of swapping regimes, and I'm not concerned re my uterus as a recent scan put the lining at 2.5mm before I came off Tibolone last December . Am I right in thinking this is quite low - in which case too much progesterone could also cause spotting I think (please correct me if I've misunderstood what I read)?
Anyway, I'm feeling good so onwards and upwards!
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Hiya ladies. This might be a very silly question but..here goes
When you apply the gel if you are doing 4 pumps (2 each leg) do you pump out one for each leg, rub it in and then go on to pump out another one for each leg and apply.
Or do you pump out two doses in one go for each leg. I.e 2 pumps into each hand and apply that way.
Not sure if it matters for absorption?
Thanks for any advicexx
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TC...I pump out 2 and rub on my shoulder, outer arm. Then pump 2 onto my other hand and rub into the other shoulder, outer arm x
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Thanks dotty. Gonna try that. I 've been doing it one pump rub in until it's dry and then another pump.
Just feel like I'm not getting enough eastrogen
Flushes came back when I switched to the gel 5 weeks ago and seem to actually be getting worse.the flushes don't bother me as much as my other symptoms but I've heard they are a good indicator of whether your getting enough.
So it's either not high enough dose or there's an absorption problem.i guess.
Dotty. May I ask why do you do the arms. Is it just personal preference or do you think it absorbs better that way?
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Tc...just personal preference. i feel it dries quicker on my outer arms. x
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Thanks.
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I really need some advice please.
Im taking Utrogestan for 14 days a month (200mg) but i'm due to stop taking them on the day I fly on holiday, so I asked my Dr what could I do so I don't have a period start the first day i'm away. She said to take 1 tablet instead for 23 days.
so I started to do that and have had breakthrough bleeding everyday since.
Ive upped it back to 2 to stop the bleeding but that hasn't worked.
Im due to stop taking the tablets on the original cycle tomorrow.... should I just leave a 3 week gap instead of 2 and see if I can shift my cycle a week further?
One other question, Im also using oestrogen (2 pumps every eve)
What is causing me to grit my teeth? I don't realise im doing it and my muscles are getting sore on my face and head.
Thanks
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I'm on one pump eistrogel , which has been enough to get rid of joint pain which was my main symptom and mild flushing.
The utrogestan makes me so tired , I've switched from taking it monthly for 2 weeks to taking it for 2 weeks every three months , this is the only thing which triggers a bleed . I use two tablets vagunally but am still ridiculously tired for 2 weeks.
Anyone else in similar protocol? I'm wondering if I could switch to one tablet vaginally for the next 2 week cycle.
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Thanks Birdy
I have been very stressed but I am sleeping like a log so the Oestrogen isn't stopping me sleeping at the mo.
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I'm on one pump eistrogel , which has been enough to get rid of joint pain which was my main symptom and mild flushing.
The utrogestan makes me so tired , I've switched from taking it monthly for 2 weeks to taking it for 2 weeks every three months , this is the only thing which triggers a bleed . I use two tablets vagunally but am still ridiculously tired for 2 weeks.
Anyone else in similar protocol? I'm wondering if I could switch to one tablet vaginally for the next 2 week cycle.
Hi there - if you are on a 3 month cycle now then it really is much less than the licensed dose to take only 100 mg for two weeks. However if you are only taking 1 pump of oestrogel, depending on your absorption, your doc may allow this provided you have a scan at least once a year to check your womb lining?
How are your bleeds on the 3 month regime or have you not been taking it long enough like this to know?
I am on 62.5 mcg oestrogen patch and take 200 mg vaginally x 12 days every 6-8 weeks and get a smallish bleed but would worry about extending my cycle or reducing the dose - but I'm mid 60's so being a bit more cautious these days as have been on HRT for 12 years.
Hurdity x
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I really need some advice please.
Im taking Utrogestan for 14 days a month (200mg) but i'm due to stop taking them on the day I fly on holiday, so I asked my Dr what could I do so I don't have a period start the first day i'm away. She said to take 1 tablet instead for 23 days.
so I started to do that and have had breakthrough bleeding everyday since.
Ive upped it back to 2 to stop the bleeding but that hasn't worked.
Im due to stop taking the tablets on the original cycle tomorrow.... should I just leave a 3 week gap instead of 2 and see if I can shift my cycle a week further?
Thanks
It's difficult for any of us to advise here pinkjan as it depends on your uterus and where you are in menopause. For example I am post-menopausal and I work out the timing of all my cycles and when to take utrogestan based on when I'm going away and other things so I work backwards and vary my cycle accordingly. It's not possible to do this if you are peri-menopausal unless maybe very late - as you don't know when your own cycle will kick in. Depending on when you're going away maybe continue with the 200 mg and hope the bleeding stops eventually?
If you are post-menopausal then in future I would just delay starting your progesterone completely. How much oestrogen are you taking?
Good luck and sorry I can't help further - it's not an exact science unfortunately! Hope you enjoy your holiday!!
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity.
I'm on 1.5 to 2 pumps of Oestrogel every evening
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I'm on one pump eistrogel , which has been enough to get rid of joint pain which was my main symptom and mild flushing.
The utrogestan makes me so tired , I've switched from taking it monthly for 2 weeks to taking it for 2 weeks every three months , this is the only thing which triggers a bleed . I use two tablets vagunally but am still ridiculously tired for 2 weeks.
Anyone else in similar protocol? I'm wondering if I could switch to one tablet vaginally for the next 2 week cycle.
Hi there - if you are on a 3 month cycle now then it really is much less than the licensed dose to take only 100 mg for two weeks. However if you are only taking 1 pump of oestrogel, depending on your absorption, your doc may allow this provided you have a scan at least once a year to check your womb lining?
How are your bleeds on the 3 month regime or have you not been taking it long enough like this to know?
I am on 62.5 mcg oestrogen patch and take 200 mg vaginally x 12 days every 6-8 weeks and get a smallish bleed but would worry about extending my cycle or reducing the dose - but I'm mid 60's so being a bit more cautious these days as have been on HRT for 12 years.
Hurdity x
Thank you hurdity. I'm 51 and I be been in hrt for about 15 months. I tried patches to start off with , but they didn't trigger a period , then I moved to the gel and untrogestan orally a year ago. For the first month I took it orally for 2 weeks - no period. I was so tired I fell asleep during a meeting at work. So I went in nhs website and saw that they talked about three month protocol . I started that , but not enough to trigger a period. I switched to vaginally last time and it caused a normal bleed - hurrah !! Just started bleed after second go at this, but used 2 x 100 for 14 nights vaginally . Am still very tired , but not as tired. I get no spitting or break through bleeding in the three months , that's why I was wondering if I could reduce to 100mg for 14 nights ( as I'm only on the one pump eistrogel)
My gp knows nothing , though I have told her I'm using them vaginally . I haven't had a scan but as this bleed and the last feel like a proper period, I feel as though everything is coming out.
Maybe I should switch to 100 x 14 nights but do it every 2 months ??
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Hi again
Well when on a two month cycle I still do 200 mg vaginally for 12 days - even when I do a 6 week cycle (ie oestrogen only for 4 wks 2 days, followed by prog for 12 days), and I still get a bleed, although I am now thinking of shortening the cycle and cutting down to 100 mg - but it's all a compromise.
Yes it is a possibility to do 100 mg x 14 days vaginally every 2 months but it is still very much a reduced dose so off-licence so if you speak to your doc then you should see if she can refer you for a scan and if not if you can afford it, then do get one privately (about £100) immediately following the bleed to check that all the lining is in fact being shed. I take your point about your bleeding and initial lack of bleeds - it does sound like it (prog frequency) is probably enough for you but best not to second guess and be scanned if you intend to do it like this longer term.
Hurdity x
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Thank you hurdity . Bleed just last for 3 days , only one day normal / heavy , other days quite watery so I do think it's all coming away . I'll schedule a scan for after next time
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Hi, I've been prescribed 1 pump of Estrogel daily, will this be enough? Just finished Evorel Conti patches and I'm post menopausal. Thanks.
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Hi 1 pump is a very low dose . If you want the rough equivalent of Evorel Conti then you need 2 pumps.
Which progesterone have you been prescribed? X
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Hi Birdy an Evorel Conti patch contains 50mg of Oestrogen which is roughly equivalent to 2 pumps of Oestrogel. You can't compare exactly as they are different methods.
There is a comparison table somewhere which I've posted before. I'll have a look for it and post again . X
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https://thebms.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/HRT-Practical-Prescribing-AUG2018.pdf
Have a look at this document Birdy x
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Hi 2 pumps of Oestrogel contains 1.5mg of oestrogen. X
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I'm still realy confused. If a patch delivers 50mcg daily and 2 pumps is 1.5mg (1,500mcg) that's a crazy difference.
It would seem the patch contains 0.78mg estradiol why does it only deliver 50mcg per day. What happens to the rest?
It seems the patch is far less than the gel on a daily basis.
I am realy bad with numbers tho.
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But if the patch is 0.78mg and only delivers 50 micro grams per day what happens to the rest?
Omg birdy. I'm laughing for the first time in days :)
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I've got a feeling I'm being realy thick. Hence why I'm laughing at myself but...
When I was on 4 pumps gel 3mg of estradiol was delivered daily. My estradot patch only delivers 75 micrograms daily. That's a lot less.
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Thanks richard :)
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O.k I just phoned 2 different pharmacists and both said the same thing..you cant realy compare like for like. They both said it's because of the different delivery systems.
Both said the patch might appear to be a lower dose but might result in a higher serum level due to better absorption.
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Hi Birdy what were you on before? X
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I can only answer for myself but possibly stellajane. I guess when nothing you try seems to be working you look for answers.
For me. I was getting worse and worse on 4 pumps, borne out by my blood test. I was worried about dropping even more or just staying the same by taking a lower dose patch.
.
I will admit I fretted a lot about the gel. But only because It wasnt working. I worried if I was doing something wrong with application Whereas I dont feel anxious about using the patch as I cant get it wrong.
The day to day effects of my E plummeting has been terrible anxiety and in turn I get anxious about wasting time taking something that's not working as some of the more undesirable effects of E deficiency get worse over time.
At the end of the day if I felt o.k on a treatment then that would be good enough for me and I wouldn't care about blood levels or dosages and wouldn't need to look for answers. What a relief that would be. It would be like being set free!!!
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Birdy. You seem to react to too much eastrogen dont you. Getting the balance right is crucial for you. And you seem to react to very subtle changes so micrograms and milligrams realy do come into play.
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Stellajane. Thank you.
You are right everything is daunting when anxiety is at a prolonged high.
I have a bit of a tempestous relationship with Ad's. I've been on them in the past but I wasnt on them prior to my surgical meno so I guess I can isolate my current issues to after that event and plummeting eastrogen.
I guess I'm being stubborn about getting my eastrogen levels up to see if that helps first and maybe I wont need them. I'm resistant to them because of side effects I've had in the past.
I have got a prescription for escitalopram but I havent started yet. I just think if I get even a relatively low level of E back I might not need to start them.
X
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Hi 1 pump is a very low dose . If you want the rough equivalent of Evorel Conti then you need 2 pumps.
Which progesterone have you been prescribed? X
Utrogestan 100 mg orally at the moment. I seemed ok with the oestrogen dose in the patches so just wanted the equivalent amount of oestrogen in the gel.
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Tracey. What dose patch were you on?
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3.2mg Estradiol, absorb 50 micrograms in 24 hrs..
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Hi Tracey The equivalent dose of gel would be 2 pumps . As other people have pointed out it’s difficult to compare gel with patches or pills . The BMS have issued a table showing the comparisons which I posted in an earlier post. X
Here’s the article with the table. Hope it helps x
https://thebms.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/HRT-Practical-Prescribing-AUG2018.pdf
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Thanks Dotty, I'll give it s go.. X
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Good luck Tracey E x
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Tracey I believe the table dotty posted is the nearest you will get to conversion. I have never seen anything else which compares in this way.
Btw. Tracey with an E is a great name. Wink wink.!!
TC x
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;) Thanks Tc..
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😁😁 me too. 1 pump = .75mg, as it says on the back of the bottle but notice it says 0.06% as well. The actual amount of hormone is 0.06% of that.
The patch has 3.3mg of oestrogen in it but delivers 50micrograms over 24 hours.
The gel has hormone suspended in it at 0.06%.
So, now I think that means 1 pump of gel is equal (ish) to the amount you get in an Evorel Conti patch over 24 hours.
I failed maths but Richard didn't and he's smart.
Hi Birdy
Just to clarify re the maths of the gel and what it contains. The 0.06 % refers to the quantity of the active ingredient (in this case) estradiol in a given amount of gel - so 1 g gel (= 1000 mg) contains 60 mg estradiol. One pump of oestrogel comprises 1.25 gel (=1250 mg), so 0.06 % of that is 75 mg. The bottle is telling you how much estradiol each pump of the gel contains.
I can't see over the page now I've started posting but I think the questions were about comparison between patch and gel? I think it's already been said that the patch doses are given as the amount delivered over a 24 hour period driectly into the bloodstream (measured in micrograms: 1000 mcg - 1 mg) - and it doesn't all get used up. I presume it needs to be that amount to ensure that dose fairly consistanetly over the period of time it's stuck on. I might do a separate post about this as it often comes up and is very confusing!! ::).
A lot of the gel doesn't get absorbed because it dries before this happens and also will depend on your type of skin, produicts used etc. Again the doses will have been worked out to give the measured systemic estradiol levels on average for a given dose.
Does that clarify a bit?
As already said - best to go by symptoms and low medium and high doses but it does seem some women fall into the extremes of the different amounts absorbed.
Hurdity x
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Hi
I'm new to the MM forum and spent most of last night scrolling through the thread.
I'm 47 and been in perimenopause for about 5 years, attempting to manage with the usual ‘alternative' stuff but the last 6 months have been horrible. I had to give up my job last November, 3 hours of commuting everyday had become impossible and the brain fog/recall had become embarrassing. I worked in a male dominated business and there was no understanding or consideration for my situation.
A history of thrombosis, TIA's and stroke in my family had put me off HRT for a long time but symptoms have just got too much…night sweats, insomnia, fatigue, joint pain (hips, lower back and hands), brain fog, recall, weight gain etc, etc.
I read a lot of information and saw my GP a few times to discuss options before finally deciding, she advised the oestrogen patch and Mirena coil was the best route. I was reluctant to have the Mirena as I'd had a bad experience with it in the past.
I found the Easy HRT prescribing guide on the PCWHF and took it back to my GP. She was happy to listen and asked for a copy of the guide to share with her colleagues! She prescribed Estrogel and Utrogestan and told me to start taking it immediately.
On 1st March I started on 2 pumps (1 morning and 1 night) and 200mg (2 x 100mg capsules) Utrogestan orally at night. I am still having periods, but they aren't regular and on day 3 I had the first one in 11 weeks.
I felt anxious, emotional and irritable all the time which weren't issues pre HRT, I had a phone appointment with my GP and she advised increasing to 4 pumps of gel per day and to stick with it, everything will settle down. On 4 pumps I felt much worse than before, so I made the decision to stop everything last week.
I promptly went online and spent a small fortune on a whole new batch of alternatives including CBD but I can't help feeling that if I'd had some proper advice and support I could have persevered and found a level that worked.
After reading the thread last night I have learned so much. The knowledge and dedication of some members is amazing and reading about those of you who have had success with HRT and made huge improvements in your quality of life, it's given me renewed hope and I want to try again.
But, I have so many questions and I know my GP won't have the answers...
• Are 4 pumps too much?
• Should I have waited until day 16 to start taking the Utrogestan?
• Was Utrogestan responsible for causing the mess I was in emotionally?
• Should I try Utrogestan vaginally? Maybe I'm sensitive to it?
• Utrogestan day 1-25, or for 12 days from day 16-28 or for 12 days every 2 months?
• Gel on arms or legs?
• Patches vs gel?
I'd be so grateful for any advice.
Thanks!
X
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hey itsmejojo,
So loads of questions... I will do my best to answer from my own experiences but firstly :welcomemm: for me this forum has been a lifeline and I know it is for others as well. I have also found more info and experience here than I have ever found in the medical world and I trust what I learn here implicitly.
I will try to go down in order...So convential wisdom here and in the medical profession who have a bit of a clue what they are talking about (they do exist but are few and far between) say that it takes 3 months for an hrt regime to settle. It is not a quick process and you will get all sorts of things happening when you first start out - loads of things you won't have been told about and loads of things which are just unique to you and your own body and then things which most of us have here have experienced at one point or another.
Therefore in answer to your question - you did give up too early - perseverance is the key to start - 1 month is not even enough for your body to adjust. The mess you were in emotionally was because your body needed to adjust to the extra hormones - I would have put money on it that it was likely to settle if you persevered. I would not have suggested to go to 4 pumps after such a short period of time, but have stayed at 2 for at least 6 weeks before upping it one pump at a time every 3 weeks. It takes a while for the oestrogen levels to come up in the body - not a quick fix. It took me a whole 7 months to get rid of ALL the symptoms you describe for going onto hrt plus anxiety and irritability and panic attacks and agrophobia which WERE part of my menopause. It can work quicker for some but most of us it is more of the long haul!
Item 2 - perimenopause makes it extremely difficult to get the types of hormones and the regime to balance and it depends a what stage you are in it and what age as to how that goes. Your body is including your own hormones with those you are putting into it and those hormones will have their say as you go along.
In terms of starting your regime gell and utrogestan - gps like to start you on 1st of the month because it makes it easier to count and keep track of what happens on what days. It depends on what regime you want to do is when you take your Utrogestan. You can take it continuously and try to balance it against the gel the ideal being that you wont get bleed - usually more for post meno women because they dont have their own cycle like you do in peri which interferes with the balance. Remember you have your own cycle and hormones still which will interact with what ever level of hrt you put into your body.
This cycle/regime is a "continuous" regime and the aim is to control the bleed to a little as possible.
Option 2 if a "cycle or conti" regime where you introduce the utrogestan for a certain number of days and it effectively tricks your body into the cycle you want and the bleed happens when you want. Well that the theory anyway. I am 57 post meno and still do a cycle because I want bleed (reasons later as the answer to one of your questions). It is likely as you mention day 16 to start utrogestan that you would be going for 12 days at 200mg utrogestan and then a bleed cycle. So yes day 15 is actually the day. When you stop after 13/14 days (varies) then you may go a couple of days and bleed for 3/4/or 5 - depends.
Answer 4 - I have to use Utro vaginally - I am one of those women who is fairly sensitive to it. It can be taken orally and you may be able to tolerate it but until you try no one can say and you wont know. When taken orally its potency is diminished by going through the stomach and some women have problems because it needs to be processed by the liver. Your choice - depends how you react - trial and error again.
The reason why you bleed is your own cycle kicked in over the hrt because you hadn't had your hrt long enough to overide your own cycle and get a balance.
The level of gel for you depends on your body and is trial and error. One of the reasons women like separate oestrogen and progesterone is that they can play around with the levels themselves without having to go to the GP and get different doses of patches or pills prescribed when they need to go up or down.
So answer to question 1 - gps start at 2 pumps - I use 4 pumps for me and I do know a few women who need up to 6, thefore - "how much is too much" - the answer is "when it feels right for you and your symptoms are under control". I use my gell on my arms and legs alternately. Some women don't like to put it on the inner arms, they think it is too close to the boobs. I don't have a problem with either and bear in mind 4 pumps is a lot of gel!
Think that just about covers it for now - but I would definitely give it another go now you know more what to expect and the timeline. Keep posting and there will be loads of people here to answer your questions as you go along. There are no daft or stupid questions so ask away. Tell us all about what you are experincing and how you are feeling - there is nothing you could tell us about that someone on the forum doesnt know something about.
Ladybt28 xx
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Thank you Ladybt28 and Stellajane really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
I'm giving it another go, starting first with 2 pumps of gel for a few weeks and then start Utrogestan day 15 vaginally. I'm having some cramps and a bit of spotting today so think another bleed is coming, would you advise waiting to get this out of the way before I start HRT again?
The issue with previous Mirena was about 15 years ago. I was bleeding for weeks after it was put in, I was sent for a scan to check it was in the correct position which it was and told the bleeding would eventually stop. A few weeks later still bleeding I had cramps on par with labour pains, I went to A&E and it was stuck in my cervix so had it removed, don't want to risk that again.
Thanks! X
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Hi can i just check if people are increasing their estrogel dose to help with physical symptoms like hot flashes returning or can increasing the dose help with emotional symptoms like mood swings too?
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Increasing my dose of gel helped with the flushes and stopped my anxiety and panic attacks, but that is my personal experience. It doesn't always stop the anxiety or mood swings. You can only try and wait long enough for it to settle. Sometimes when you increase the dose those appear to get worse until the body balances itself out. It really is trial and error Hopeful1 with a huge helping of patience.
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Thanks ladybt for the reminder about patience. I need a truck load.
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See the fogginess Birdy - mine went for the first time in 20 years when they gave me Testosterone. brain and thought process more sharp. The only symptom out of the...what is it..20 you can have on the list? I am left with is crippling depression. All the rest have gone, which is a flaming miracle. When I had them all they were all "loud" but now they have all gone, the depression this dark cloud is huge. I'm not foggy anymore, when I do have a thought it's sharp just it feels like someone has taken the whole of my brain out of my head and so nothing is connected to my body. It's very weird.
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Yep I had pregnanalone before but I got it from America through that book I wrote about in posts before called The Mood Cure but it didn't work for me then. I think my body had too many different problems to fix all in one go at the time.
Sludge is a good word Birdy...been there I know what that feels like. Wish I could make it better but I need to take my own advice and make me better than I am right now.
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Hi, I've been on this combination of HRT for fifteen days now. One pump and a bit of Estrogel and one 100mg of Utrogestan per day. Day 15 and my boobs have expanded and feel very tender is this normal?
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Birdy, do you think I may be using too much Estrogel or is it more likely the Utrogestan causing the excessive tenderness? ::)
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One and a half pumps is a fairly low dose. Two is standard I believe. I think it's the sudden surge of oestrogen that's affected your boobs. Mine became quite tender and up a cup size and my meno nurse said it was oestrogen. But who knows? I would wait it out. Fifteen days isn't much time at all x
Did yours get less tender with time then? x
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Mine were quite sore for about the first month or maybe more, bit difficult to remember Tracey, but then it settled down. I don't think it is too much as birdy says, its your body settling down. 15 days is a very short period of time.
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Hi Ladies. This is an amazing forum and I am in awe of everyone's experience. I hope you can answer my question.
I am in my first month of Evorel 25 and Utrogestan 200mg orally for 12 days. All good so far, a little shaky the first couple of days on evorel then it settled. Also fine on the Utrogestan, currently on day 7, but I have a question.
I took the utrogestan about an hour before bed, which was a longer gap than usual. Other nights it had only been 10 mins between taking i5 and bedtime . By the time I was climbing the stairs I was so dizzy that both me and DH were quite worried. I was falling over dizzy!
This morning though, I woke up fine as usual, not even groggy at 6am and got on with the day.
Is this a worry? It was, undoubtedly, scary!
Sparkler
X
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Yes Sparkler, judging by the pharmacokinetic info (how the hormones is metabolised in the body over time ie the time course of the active ingredient) on the web, peak serum (blood) levels of progesterone can be obtained very quickly after oral intake so this is likely to be the cause of your dizziness. Even though I use it vaginally and at night, I still sometimes go through mild dizzy patches during the day when I'm on the prog phase, which disappear once I'm back to the oestrogen only.
Great news that you were feeling normal by morning though. Personally I would not be worried but if it happens when you are not on the prog phase and/or at other times of the day, then do go to your doc and get checked out - or if you are worried. You could take it vaginally to minimise the dizzy spells but you might not want to do this for 12 days per month.
I hope it all settles down for you.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Stellajane and Hurdity. I haven't had daytime problems with the Utrogestan, just some funny dreams and a return to previous symptoms of palpitations and hot flushes, although these are more like ‘hot waves' that stop before they get too bad. Chin hair is rampant, too, whereas it had eased up on the estrogen only part.
Last night was day 8 of 12 taking Utro. I took only 100 mg on the first night, then 200 every other night then will do 100 on the last day, too. Hoping this will be a little more gradual. Waiting to see how I am when I come off the progesterone as I always had pretty bad pms (angry, crying, greasy skin and hair, acne, water retention). I am supposed to be going wedding dress shopping with my daughter next week (for her not me) and don't want to be a wreck for her sake.
Thank you for your insight on the feeling dizzy, I think if it happened in the day I would have to stop the utro as I wasn't safe walking about the house, let alone driving to work.
Xx
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Hello lovely ladies!
I'm so glad I've found this forum!
Could anybody help with either of these two questions?
The first one is whether anybody else has experienced a bad burning sensation after applying Tostran at the same site as Estrogel?
And the second is about safety issues of cycling Utro vs cont use, and whether cycling would help with sore boobs.
I am postmeno, 58 yrs
Use hrt to improve sleep, hot flushes, libido and to help with osteoporosis.
Also have arthritis and I am hypothyroid (50 mg levothyroxine)
Use 1 pump Estrogel (originally prescribed 2-4 but boobs too painful)
100 mg Utro
2x per week ½ pump Tostran
After two years of taking privately prescribed bioidentical hrt (lozenges with est/prog/test) I switched to a NHS menopause clinic in November 18. Initially, I started off with estrogel in the morning and Utro in the evening, and after a couple of weeks I added Tostran. I applied Estrogel and Tostran (1 pump each) one after the other on the same area (inner thighs). This caused some sort of cross reaction with very unpleasant burning sensation and reddening of skin. A cold shower calmed things a little but the reddening took almost a week to subside and I stopped taking Tostran for about 6 weeks.
The menopause clinic recommended to apply the gels to two different areas, i.e. estrogel on the thighs and Tostran on the pubic area although the latter continued to cause some minor reddening. As an additional precaution, I am spacing the applications apart, i.e. applying Tostran 6 hours after Estrogel.
At my 2nd and last appt (Feb 19) the menopause doc mentioned to swap to an alternative testosterone product (‘sachets', presumably Testim?), but her letter to my GP listed again Tostran rather than the alternative testosterone.
Two weeks ago I asked my GP:
a) whether he could prescribe the alternative testosterone product in sachets as discussed in the specialist's consultation, and
b) whether he'd be happy for me to try and take Utro on day 1-25 during a 28 cycle (as per manufacturer's advice) rather than continuously, as I could feel my ovaries and had sore boobs.
He declined and said he would only be able to follow the specialist's advice. He seemed to think that my pres of utro and Tostran was ‘unlicensed' and suggested I should contact the menopause clinic myself to clarify the situation.
I emailed the menopause clinic but they simply stated in their letter that, according to their records, my symptoms had improved and I'd been discharged.
Right now I'm not sure what to do…
My GP wasn't inclined to refer me back to the specialist and equally, wasn't happy to tweak the pres. He reminded me that HRT was an incredibly delicately balanced matter and playing around with it could have huge consequences.
I should add that overall, my HRT is a godsend (I can sleep again, hot flashes are gone, it's helped my bone density and it didn't negatively affect my mood), but I am still keen to try a different product of testosterone. I am also bothered by feeling my ovaries and having painful boobs and was hoping that cycling Utro would be worth trying out. During both visits at the menopause clinic I asked whether I could cycle my Utro as per manufacturer's recommendations, but was told it was ‘safer not to'.
So, all in all, I am worried about getting this wrong. After all, safety is my nr 1 concern.
Apologies about the long post, but any suggestions would be really appreciated!
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Hi Springtime
:welcomemm:
Firstly please don't apologise - the more info we have the better we can help you!
Re your Qs. Intuitively I would never apply any different gel to the same area of skin at the same time! The advice is always to rotate them. I don't think you need to worry about applying them at the same time of day though - just not at the same site or near eg suggest you use alternate legs for T and Oe gel. You reaction from applying in same place could be that the excipients ( what the active ingredient is mixed with) are reacting with each other so defo a no-no to apply to same area of skin.
Re the T - this is really the subject of another thread but will answer here although the T Qs might get missed by the other T women! Yes Testogel sachets would be better in that they are less concentrated (1% T compared to 2 % in Tostran) and as we apply a very small amount anyway it is easier in the weaker one not to apply too much or too little (in the absence of a licensed formulation for women).
Btw I would never apply to pubic area!!! Most of us apply far from abdomen because of migration through the skin. OK you won't get the additional side effect of hair growth but personally I would rather deal with a bit of extra hair than potentially unwelcome side effects in pubic/genital area. So I apply to insdie of lower thihg ie inside of knee. Some apply to ankles or feet. The discontinued Intrinsa patches were applied to butt cheek but for me that's too close to pubic area for extra T!
Yes doc is right that T is unlicensed but the utro is licensed - for oral use anyway (not vaginally in UK for HRT but for fertilty it is and also vaginally for HRT on the continent. In fact the prescribing info as you say, gives days 1-25 as the dose for continuous combined use so you are fine to use it this way without medical authorisation if you would prefer. It's not strictly cyclical as only 3 days off. A true cycle would really be 21 days or less I would suggest - and mostly 10-14 days per 28 of prog. Some of us prefer this because of the side efects of continuous prog. Incdientally not sure how you feel on the prog but some of the known effects ( sedative, libido depressing, lethargy inducing) work counter to the efects of T (energising, muscle strenghtening, libido enhancing and opposing. Taking cyclically may well help with boob pain - I always get this when on the prog phase of the cycle and used to when fertile too.
When you say feel your ovaries do you mean as in you can feel the organ or that you feel twinges? You should ask for this to be investigated and have a scan/CA125 test just to check all is well. Your ovaries should actually have all but disappeared even though you are taking HRT as with most post-menopausal woemn with healthy ovaries. Having said that i get twinges in mine sometimes quite sharp pain but have never mentioned it - but blood tests are always fine and last scan they couldn;t find them so I stopped worrying about the pain. But make sure you have it looked at at least once before then ignoring it if all OK!
Glad you're feeling better generally anyway :)
Have a look at alol the thread on tesosterone ( put T in the search box on the home page of the forum) . Also there is a long-running thread on T in Private Lives whichh might be of interest.
Hope this helps.
Hurdity x
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After taking Femoston 2mg/10mg for just over 5 years (occasionally during this time dropping back to 1mg/10mg) I decided to start using a conti regime. I was going to start using Femoston Conti but my GP offered me the Estrogel gel 2 pumps daily and Utrogestan tabs 100mg 1-25/28.
I finished my Femoston pack and had the usual bleed but immediately started using the gel and tabs. I was very surprised how lovely and relaxed I was feeling taking the Utrogestan.
However 2 weeks in, I had the most horrendous headache, stayed in bed the whole day and then discovered I was having another period which lasted about 8 days.
I have carried on using the gel and tabs but stopped the Utrogestan on day 25 and now it's day 28 and I'm having another bleed.
I do want to try this regime for 3 months but just a bit concerned as to why I'm bleeding so much when this is supposed to be the no bleed option!
I know there are a few ladies going back to the sequi option because of unscheduled bleeding but there must be a balance somewhere that stops the bleeding? I wondered whether I should just use 1 pump of estrogel but I believe 2 pumps is still less than the 2mg in Femoston?
Any thoughts?
Katie
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Hi Katie the bleeding may just be your body settling into the new hrt or you may not be post menopause, which could lead to bleeding. X
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Thanks Dotty - I'm 58 and although I started HRT when I was peri - I think I would be post now.
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Hi Katie Yes you are probably right. However, there are some ladies still getting periods in their late 50s. There is a thread on here somewhere about late menopause.
In that case it's probably just your body getting used to the new hrt. It can take 6 months for bleeding to settle. You can take the progesterone continuously . The guidance of having a break for 3 days has been updated and menopause specialists are now advising to take it every day . X
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Hi Springtime
:welcomemm:
Firstly please don't apologise - the more info we have the better we can help you!
Re your Qs. Intuitively I would never apply any different gel to the same area of skin at the same time! The advice is always to rotate them. I don't think you need to worry about applying them at the same time of day though - just not at the same site or near eg suggest you use alternate legs for T and Oe gel. You reaction from applying in same place could be that the excipients ( what the active ingredient is mixed with) are reacting with each other so defo a no-no to apply to same area of skin.
Re the T - this is really the subject of another thread but will answer here although the T Qs might get missed by the other T women! Yes Testogel sachets would be better in that they are less concentrated (1% T compared to 2 % in Tostran) and as we apply a very small amount anyway it is easier in the weaker one not to apply too much or too little (in the absence of a licensed formulation for women).
Btw I would never apply to pubic area!!! Most of us apply far from abdomen because of migration through the skin. OK you won't get the additional side effect of hair growth but personally I would rather deal with a bit of extra hair than potentially unwelcome side effects in pubic/genital area. So I apply to insdie of lower thihg ie inside of knee. Some apply to ankles or feet. The discontinued Intrinsa patches were applied to butt cheek but for me that's too close to pubic area for extra T!
Yes doc is right that T is unlicensed but the utro is licensed - for oral use anyway (not vaginally in UK for HRT but for fertilty it is and also vaginally for HRT on the continent. In fact the prescribing info as you say, gives days 1-25 as the dose for continuous combined use so you are fine to use it this way without medical authorisation if you would prefer. It's not strictly cyclical as only 3 days off. A true cycle would really be 21 days or less I would suggest - and mostly 10-14 days per 28 of prog. Some of us prefer this because of the side efects of continuous prog. Incdientally not sure how you feel on the prog but some of the known effects ( sedative, libido depressing, lethargy inducing) work counter to the efects of T (energising, muscle strenghtening, libido enhancing and opposing. Taking cyclically may well help with boob pain - I always get this when on the prog phase of the cycle and used to when fertile too.
When you say feel your ovaries do you mean as in you can feel the organ or that you feel twinges? You should ask for this to be investigated and have a scan/CA125 test just to check all is well. Your ovaries should actually have all but disappeared even though you are taking HRT as with most post-menopausal woemn with healthy ovaries. Having said that i get twinges in mine sometimes quite sharp pain but have never mentioned it - but blood tests are always fine and last scan they couldn;t find them so I stopped worrying about the pain. But make sure you have it looked at at least once before then ignoring it if all OK!
Glad you're feeling better generally anyway :)
Have a look at alol the thread on tesosterone ( put T in the search box on the home page of the forum) . Also there is a long-running thread on T in Private Lives whichh might be of interest.
Hope this helps.
Hurdity x
Gosh Hurdity! I can't keep up with you! :)
So touched you made time to immediately reply to my endlessly long rambling post – incidentally, that was the first time I've ever posted anything on a forum in my entire life. I do try and keep up! ;)
You are spot on that applying T and Oe gel to the same area of skin was a bad idea. And yet I only did as I was told. If only I had come across your posts earlier.
I'll try again to get a script for Testogel and hope I'll tolerate it better. After all, according to the leaflet of the menopause at Chelsea and Westminster Tostran is only third in line after Testim and Testogel. Also, I agree it makes sense not to apply T to pubic area (even though this is recommended in C&W leaflet) so will from now on stay away from the nether regions.
Will give the prog 25/28 regime a go. ‘Pain' in ovaries is more of a gentle, almost continuous pull, had a a CA 125 1.5 yrs ago and all was well and on last scan in Jan they were still around. Perhaps in a few years they'll have disappeared at which point I'll stop worrying too.
Will look at the threads you've recommended, huge thanks again for sharing your insights so generously.
I owe you!
x
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Hello,
Could I have some help from those of you more experienced with eostrogel.
I am 57 and around 12 months post menopausal. I was taking Femostan conti 1/5 but started getting poor moods and break through flushes as well as heart palpitations (the worst!).
I went to see a gynea who prescribed utrogestan/eostrogel and suggested 2-4 pumps trail and error. Because I had been on 1/5 she said I should start at 3 pumps and experiment.
I have become very bloated - 2 inches on my waist at least and my boobs are very tender. Does that indicate I should drop the dose? I have been taking this for 8 days.
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Hi Elmsey
I started this regime 25 days ago, with originally 1 pump of estrogel. Unfortunately my hot flushes returned so I've increased to 2 pumps. I do feel bloated at the moment and my breasts are tender too. Just hoping they settle with time.
You could try dropping the dose to 2 pumps just to see if you feel better. The positives of this regime are the lack of palpitations. They were horrendous before.
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Please can someone confirm whether it is the same Utrogestan tablets which you take vaginally or orally. Mine say to take on an empty stomach but I am quite intolerant to progetsterone so I am taking vaginally. Clearly I want to make sure they will work like that!
Elmsey
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Yes they are the same and if taken vaginally there's no need to take on an empty stomach. Most of us take in the evening after using the toilet and before lying down to help them stay in place! Hope that helps
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Thanks Jasmine. That is what I have been doing.
I think that I will probalby give the Mirena coil a go but until I can get an appointment will need to stick with this regime.
Elmsey
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Hi all you lovely ladies. I posted on here some time back and I'm still on extradite 75 mg and utrogestan vaginally , 100mg for three days, then 200 mg for five days, then back to 100 mg for another three days- I do the utrogestan every eight weeks or so. My problem is that when I stop the utrogestan I get the most heavy cramps bleeds - bright red blood literally pouring out for the first two days and then still red blood but less heavy for another four or five days. I feel completely washed out and low on energy and mood also. I'm planning to go to my go to ask for an endometrial scan and breast scan also ( my mother had breastfeeding cancer). Any ideas or suggestions would be gratefully received.
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The reason for your heavy bleeds is most likely because the womb lining has built up between your doses of utrogestan so indicates that an 8 week cycle (ie taking progesterone for 11 days in every two months) is not frequent enough. If your GP has sanctioned your long cycle then hopefully s/he will send you for a scan if you are concerned abou the heavy bleeding. The best time to be scanned is immediately following the heaviest part of your bleed as it begins to tail off and before it starts to build up again.
Hurdity x
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Hiya. Utrogestan.question please.
When taking 14 days at 200mg.
Do ladies using the "pill" vaginally insert 2x100 pills?
Or is there a 200mg version and if so is it different to the 200mg "pessary" which I would assume is only for vaginal use?
Thank you.
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The 200mg 'pessary' is licensed for fertility treatment not HRT for some reason but AFAIK the 100mg capsules are identical - same shell and same ingredients and can be used orally or vaginally. There is no 200mg HRT version.
BTW - the licensed dose of 200mg is for 12 days cyclically not 14 days (which may be a blessed relief ;D ). xx
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The 200 mg version used to be licensed for HRT and for some weird reason is now no longer - since it's all in the packaging and leaflet (the 200 mg capsules were exactly the same) I see no reason for the change and it makes it awkward for us vag prog users to insert those damn tiny balls!!!
Both 100 mg and 200 mg are made for oral or vaginal use - it's only in UK that there is separate packaging for fertility with those very wasteful applicators ( I gather) - like Vagifem (wasteful applicators....).
If you look at the product info on the French database of medicines you can see the instructions are given for oral or vaginal use and for HRT or fertility.
It causes endless confusion here in UK including sometimes amongst medical professionals!
Hurdity x
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So an update from me. I managed 6 weeks of Utrogestan orally every night, and the first month was really good, but I could tell that I wasn't quite myself as the last 2 weeks went on. Rather than switch to every night vaginally, which I'd already tried, I've gone to alternate nights and all seems a lot more balanced.
Just 1 question, with now changing my dosage would that be the same as starting a new regime? And therefore should I expect the possibility of spotting for 6 months since the change (it's been almost 4 weeks so far and not had any).
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Snooze sorry I cant Answer your question. But thanks hurdity and saffy. I don't know where I got 14 days from. !!
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Sooze - it's not a precise thing. Not everyone gets spotting or bleeding on conti HRT. Also 6 months is not the exact cut-off - some will carry on spotting or bleeding for longer and some will never stop! The main thing is if you don't get any spotting or bleeding at all, and after several months without bleeding you then get a bleed - you should get checked out - as it could mean your lining is building up and the prog/oestrogen ration not right for you. ie play it by ear and if it seems wrong and the bleeding is unusual or unexpected - far better to check it out.
Hopefully all will be well and this continues to work well for you :)
Hurdity x
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Hurdity,
That makes complete sense!
Thanks,
S
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After taking Femoston 2mg/10mg for just over 5 years (occasionally during this time dropping back to 1mg/10mg) I decided to start using a conti regime. I was going to start using Femoston Conti but my GP offered me the Estrogel gel 2 pumps daily and Utrogestan tabs 100mg 1-25/28.
I finished my Femoston pack and had the usual bleed but immediately started using the gel and tabs. I was very surprised how lovely and relaxed I was feeling taking the Utrogestan.
However 2 weeks in, I had the most horrendous headache, stayed in bed the whole day and then discovered I was having another period which lasted about 8 days.
I have carried on using the gel and tabs but stopped the Utrogestan on day 25 and now it's day 28 and I'm having another bleed.
I do want to try this regime for 3 months but just a bit concerned as to why I'm bleeding so much when this is supposed to be the no bleed option!
I know there are a few ladies going back to the sequi option because of unscheduled bleeding but there must be a balance somewhere that stops the bleeding? I wondered whether I should just use 1 pump of estrogel but I believe 2 pumps is still less than the 2mg in Femoston?
Any thoughts?
Katie
Well I'm now on my second month of this regime and 2 weeks into the second month I'm having yet another full period! Started on Saturday and now day 6 and still bleeding.
I sent an e-consultation to my surgery asking for advice and got a reply to contact the surgery which i did. They mentioned a phone consultation but the earliest gp availability is in 6 days time or end of the month for the gp who provided my prescription!
Hence I'm now back here for advice. Do I reduce or increase my estrogen to prevent the bleeding? I can't change the 100mcg Utrogestin but can adjust the estrogel but not sure whether to go to 1 pump or 3? Currently using 2 pumps but having full periods every two weeks! This is supposed to be no bleed! Really want to try conti as I'll be 59 later this year but it's costing me more in tampons now!
Advice welcome!
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Hi just carry on It can take 6 months to settle x
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I'm worried cos I've got the opposite issue. No bleed at all after 3 months sequi so . Changed to continous and was told to take every night without the 3 day break. After 5 months i still had no bleed but the utro built up in my system out of proportion to eastrogen so. 10 days ago I stopped the utrogestan cold Turkey and still no bleed. I dont understand it or know what this means. Does it mean I'm still not getting enough eastrogen. I'm on 175 estradot!! Why have I not bled upon stopping it. It's not that I want to bleed per se but it doesnt seem usual or right. I'm at my wits end with it.
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Birdy. I dont get how they accumulate. Dont they just react to the amount the patch releases. Will they keep climbing over time on it then? And would a bleed be an indication of that. Sorry if I'm being a bit thick. Just when I think I've got it sorted in my head I get confused again
Other ladies are having a bleed on a lot lower dose. Do you think it's because of ovary removal. Although post meno ovaries make very little eastrogen dont they? So it shouldnt realy make a difference.
I just keep thinking "what the heck is wrong with me". I'm actually scared by the fact I've gone so high patch wise to no effect.
I'm realy struggeling with this bird
Xx
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I would have thought it was the result of extremely low oestrogen levels too, although strangely I have always had a bleed, even when my oestrogen levels were at their lowest (ie. less than 100 pmol/L). In fact my bleeds are pretty much the same whether on 25 patches or 2x100 patches ::).
I've given up trying to figure this all out, makes no sense to me ;D. In terms of uterine problems I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of bleed 'though TC, it's usually only random and erratic bleeds that are an issue. Given your low iron and B12 levels do you think this could also be the result of a nutritional issue or even simply not eating in sufficient quantities to maintain decent levels? Certainly we know that with both anorexia and malnutrition women's periods stop, perhaps this is the case even when supplementing hormones? Just guessing, of course and I may be well out of the ball park :). xx
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Hi TC if you are post meno and on continuous hrt then you don't bleed. There is nothing to worry about. X
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Hi Dotty - yes I am going to carry on with this regime but I think I'm going to just use 1 pump of estrogel and see how it goes.
When I was on sequi femoston I was on 2mg/10mg but my breasts were increasing and getting tender and I wonder if the estrogen was too high. Also I may be absorbing the gel too well now on 2 pumps and perhaps this is the cause of bleeding every two weeks?
When I started HRT 7 years ago I didn't have hot flushes but increasing pmt symptoms.
I am now beginning to wonder if my estrogen has always been ok but my progesterone levels way too low?
I feel great taking the Utrogestan - I have a great nights sleep and wake up very relaxed - this feels like the missing piece for me that I wasn't getting using Femoston! Just need to get the excessive bleeding under control now!
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I'm worried cos I've got the opposite issue. No bleed at all after 3 months sequi so . Changed to continous and was told to take every night without the 3 day break. After 5 months i still had no bleed but the utro built up in my system out of proportion to eastrogen so. 10 days ago I stopped the utrogestan cold Turkey and still no bleed. I dont understand it or know what this means. Does it mean I'm still not getting enough eastrogen. I'm on 175 estradot!! Why have I not bled upon stopping it. It's not that I want to bleed per se but it doesnt seem usual or right. I'm at my wits end with it.
Utrogeston stops the build up of the lining so there should not be a bleed. I think if you have a bleed it means maybe too much estrogen relative to progesterone so sounds as if your no bleed is right - I would have thought that if you had been taking it continuously for 5 months you should have little or no liining. Also,may take a while for the progesterone build up to clear?
What made you think that you had a build up?
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Elmsy. I thought I had a build up as I was so tired and depressed.i was exhausted.xx
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Hi TC - being tired and depressed for me is a sign of low oestrogen. If the Utrogestan is not causing you to bleed then it is doing it’s job and keeping the endometrium thin. X
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Can anyone help? I'm on a sequi cycle and I'd like to reduce my estrogel from 2 to 1 pump a day. Do you think I could also reduce my utrogesten to 100mg (1 pill a day x12 days) to maintain the monthly bleed? Hope that makes sense..
I will check with my gp first but wanted to see if anyone had done this?
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Hi yes you can I am on 1 pump and take 100mg utrogestan for 12 days per month, but often go as much as every 6 weeks.
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I have also tried the 100 X 12 days a few times over the last 3 years & I always end up bleeding anywhere from day 7 to day 10 :( I have never managed the full 12 days without a bleed so now I alternate with 100 days 1-3 then 200, 100, 200 & so on & I find this works really well for me & I have my bleed at the usual 3/4 days after finishing the course. I also go roughly every 6 weeks. I'm 57 & almost 5 year's post meno. Due to an upcoming long holiday I was planning on going 7 & half weeks between cycles, can anyone advise if this would be okay?
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Good morning Goosieloosie
There quite a few women on the forum who do long cycle but I think most of us are in our 60's but I'm sure it would be ok as a one off. Have a lovely holiday.
Lanzalover x
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Good morning Goosieloosie
There quite a few women on the forum who do long cycle but I think most of us are in our 60's but I'm sure it would be ok as a one off. Have a lovely holiday.
Lanzalover x
Thank you, we have a very busy summer ahead with family plans so I'm hoping to be fully rejuvenated to face it all lol!
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Hi again, I'm on my second months of taking Utrogestan and have started a bleed half way through (day 15) is this normal? Postmenopausal.
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Hi Tracey breakthrough bleeding can happen in first 6 months of starting hrt x
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Really, last month I did the 25 days in and 3 days off. I may just take it all the time and see if I fair better..
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Hi Tracey Yes bleeding can be expected in first 6 months of starting hrt. Your GP should have told you this. Any bleeding after 6 months needs investigating x
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Is there a natural progesterone that comes in the patch format.? Utrogestan orally causes me stomach upset and vaginally isn't working either. :( I just feel like giving up on HRT all together...
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No there isn't . The progesterone used in a patch is Notethisterone.
You could try Provera which is a capsule like Utrogestan. Done ladies find that Provera suits them better x
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Why is it not suiting you vaginally?
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Causing irritation Cassie, did wonder about using it anally, has anyone tried it that way...
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No there isn't . The progesterone used in a patch is Notethisterone.
You could try Provera which is a capsule like Utrogestan. Done ladies find that Provera suits them better x
Is this bioidentical Dotty ? X
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No the only body identical progesterone is Utrogestan x
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Tracey E - there is another body-identical progesterone - Cyclogest - but is not licensed for HRT although some gynaes prescribe it for this purpose. It is the progesterone that used to be prescribed for HRT before Utrogestan was available and was the one I used for the first 4 years of HRT. It comes as a waxy pessary/suppository so can be inserted in either orifice! It is still available as a fertility treatment. I got it on NHS from my GP from 2007 to 2011. I now use Utro vaginally.
You might need to ask for referral to a meno clinic in order to try it as most GPs would probably throw up their hands in horror (given that lots of them haven't even heard of utrogestan!).
Dotty - I'm interested that Provera is a capsule like Utrogestan - for some reason I thought it was a tablet (as in solid white thing!)!
Hurdity x
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See my other post but,
I have a breakthrough bleed. If i try to take Utro vaginally I assume it would not absorb? Should I stop or take orally?
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Hurdity the Provera 5mg I was given in the UK is definitely a flat white tablet. Do you think the are different elsewhere in the world I wonder? Dotty can you tell us about Provera capsules?
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Tracey E - there is another body-identical progesterone - Cyclogest - but is not licensed for HRT although some gynaes prescribe it for this purpose. It is the progesterone that used to be prescribed for HRT before Utrogestan was available and was the one I used for the first 4 years of HRT. It comes as a waxy pessary/suppository so can be inserted in either orifice! It is still available as a fertility treatment. I got it on NHS from my GP from 2007 to 2011. I now use Utro vaginally.
You might need to ask for referral to a meno clinic in order to try it as most GPs would probably throw up their hands in horror (given that lots of them haven't even heard of utrogestan!).
Dotty - I'm interested that Provera is a capsule like Utrogestan - for some reason I thought it was a tablet (as in solid white thing!)!
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity,
I tried Utrogestan for the first time last night anally. No idea if this will work or not but it's my last resort with Utrogestan. I guess my body just doesn't like progesterone full stop.
Interesting about the Cyclogest though, why did you change to Utrogestan when that was working?
Tracey.X
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Hi I think I got it wrong about Provera being a capsule. I wrongly presumed it was the same as Utrogestan. I'm really sorry for posting the wrong information x
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Hey Dotty don't worry - not really wrong info - there are so many variations of stuff around the world - it would just have been interesting if there was Provera in capsule form. If we don't ask questions how will we find out things? :)
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HI Tipsydilly
I ws on femoston 2/10 and last week had a mirena fitted and was given the ostrogel and told 1 pump each arm once a day (2) pumps??
I have had night sweats back an the occasional powersurge, so was wondering if this was enough for me.. I see you have 3/4 pumps and say that is the equivalent of 2/10 femosotn, I have called Dr and requested a phone appointment to discuss but really don't want another sleepless hot night :(
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Hi fluffyfittall - you have only just changed from one regime to another so there will be disruption for another week or so I think. I was told 2 pumps to start with but over a period of 5 months I found that I needed 4 pumps to feel well which is considered quite a high dose. It's hard to work out what is "equivalent" treatment when our bodies react so differently to each kind of hrt. My GP's swore blind they were all the same but I had to try 5 kinds before getting something that really worked for me. I couldn't use Femoston - it made me so nauseous but I can use oestrogel and utrogestan.
Maybe give it a few days more to see if 2 pumps settles it before upping the dose although when something was working and now things aren't working it's disappointing and flaming uncomfortable >:( ::)
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Tracey E - there is another body-identical progesterone - Cyclogest - but is not licensed for HRT although some gynaes prescribe it for this purpose. It is the progesterone that used to be prescribed for HRT before Utrogestan was available and was the one I used for the first 4 years of HRT. It comes as a waxy pessary/suppository so can be inserted in either orifice! It is still available as a fertility treatment. I got it on NHS from my GP from 2007 to 2011. I now use Utro vaginally.
You might need to ask for referral to a meno clinic in order to try it as most GPs would probably throw up their hands in horror (given that lots of them haven't even heard of utrogestan!).
Dotty - I'm interested that Provera is a capsule like Utrogestan - for some reason I thought it was a tablet (as in solid white thing!)!
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity,
I tried Utrogestan for the first time last night anally. No idea if this will work or not but it's my last resort with Utrogestan. I guess my body just doesn't like progesterone full stop.
Interesting about the Cyclogest though, why did you change to Utrogestan when that was working?
Tracey.X
I stopped HRT completely for 3 months and when I decided to restart I went onto very low dose patches (as per my doc suggestion) and intermittent but continuous Cyclogest but flushes and sweats returned so I wanted to go back up to 50 mcg. By this time is was late 2011 and I came onto this forum more often and Utrogestan was being discussed - probably only recently licensed for HRT around that time. I didn't want to go onto continuous progesterone and as Utro was licensed (though not vaginally) thought I would give it a try cyclically.
I would suggest it's not a very good idea to use Utrogestan anally as it is not designed to be used for that purpose whereas Cyclogest is designed to be absorbed as I said when used either way. It may well be absorbed in rectum but not sure whether there are any data on this so you want to be sure you are protecting the uterus adequately. Maybe see if your doc can prescribe it off licence for you for HRT?
Hurdity x
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See my other post but,
I have a breakthrough bleed. If i try to take Utro vaginally I assume it would not absorb? Should I stop or take orally?
I see your point - haven't seen your other post. If your bleed is heavy you are thinking that the prog might be carried down and out of the vagina by the general flow? I don't think there is any guidance on this? Personally if your bleed is light I would continue to use it but if heavy maybe just for that day take it orally? What does your doc say?
Hurdity x
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Dear all. Hi. Im.new to this site and.. need some help.! Im nearly 48 and have been peri meno for several yrs. I have teied every bit of self help but the last few months reaches a place of overwhelment and enormous fatigue, no motivation.and a general.feeling of.could t see te lught at the end! Im.rather clued up and in tune with my body and swore if neber go.down the hrt route. Ive not been on any conteaception.for 20 odd yrs...so my body was running 'naturally'. For the past 18 months too..more physical symptoms...very tender coccyx bone, dark bruise like corners under eyes, tbinnkin hair - in a nutshell ive not sort of known myself. If this even makes sense? Lost my glow and mojo so to speak. My periods still.exist but had waned and become irregular. My ladt one was 5 weeks ago.
Anyway.....long tale short i.came acroas hrt.....and part of my intuition told me that this could well be the miasing piece of the puzzle - im.lacking in essential hornones! I did weeks of research...ummed and ahhed..worried and woed. I visited my gp armed with info (dr louisa newsons website) and she is very suppportive ..and prescribed me.elleste duo which I refused and requested estrogel and ustrogesten. She said she would research as werent available on nhs....she then realised they.are and she prescribed me them. I am now on day 6 of 2 pumps.of gel....and 3 days into ustrogesten - i chose to take the Ustro vaginally and on alternate days...no breaks....and at the advice of dr newson.
So....so.far not felt any changes ..but aware early days......but this morn had little period pain like cramps in tum..and im.now bleeding ! Can anyone talk.to me about this? Dr Louisa said alternate days and to check in after 4.weeks...see how om doing. Is it normal to bleed?? I inserted the tab last night..next one will be tomorow and so forth. Any adcise and general reassurance would be lovely. Part of me is already regretting my decision and wondering if i have made the right one !!!
JM x
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Hi there
I am no expert at all but started to bleed day 6 of my very first hrt month. I figured I was just my own hormones doing their thing and I haven't had any bleed since (now on month 3). I am on sequential hrt, so different to you, but try not to worry and give it time to settle.
S
Xx
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Can I ask will the bloating eventually dissipate with this regime. I've gained 6lb in weight in just over two months and it all seems to be on my tummy. :-\
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Dear all. Hi. Im.new to this site and.. need some help.! Im nearly 48 and have been peri meno for several yrs. I have teied every bit of self help but the last few months reaches a place of overwhelment and enormous fatigue, no motivation.and a general.feeling of.could t see te lught at the end! Im.rather clued up and in tune with my body and swore if neber go.down the hrt route. Ive not been on any conteaception.for 20 odd yrs...so my body was running 'naturally'. For the past 18 months too..more physical symptoms...very tender coccyx bone, dark bruise like corners under eyes, tbinnkin hair - in a nutshell ive not sort of known myself. If this even makes sense? Lost my glow and mojo so to speak. My periods still.exist but had waned and become irregular. My ladt one was 5 weeks ago.
Anyway.....long tale short i.came acroas hrt.....and part of my intuition told me that this could well be the miasing piece of the puzzle - im.lacking in essential hornones! I did weeks of research...ummed and ahhed..worried and woed. I visited my gp armed with info (dr louisa newsons website) and she is very suppportive ..and prescribed me.elleste duo which I refused and requested estrogel and ustrogesten. She said she would research as werent available on nhs....she then realised they.are and she prescribed me them. I am now on day 6 of 2 pumps.of gel....and 3 days into ustrogesten - i chose to take the Ustro vaginally and on alternate days...no breaks....and at the advice of dr newson.
So....so.far not felt any changes ..but aware early days......but this morn had little period pain like cramps in tum..and im.now bleeding ! Can anyone talk.to me about this? Dr Louisa said alternate days and to check in after 4.weeks...see how om doing. Is it normal to bleed?? I inserted the tab last night..next one will be tomorow and so forth. Any adcise and general reassurance would be lovely. Part of me is already regretting my decision and wondering if i have made the right one !!!
JM x
Hi Julie, I tried every other day with the Utro to but got breakthrough bleeding. So for me the Utro amount was probably to little for the 3 pumps of Estrogel. I can't drop the amount of Estrogel because my hot flushes return. We're all different you may be ok on every other day. :)
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Dear all. Hi. Im.new to this site and.. need some help.! Im nearly 48 and have been peri meno for several yrs. I have teied every bit of self help but the last few months reaches a place of overwhelment and enormous fatigue, no motivation.and a general.feeling of.could t see te lught at the end! Im.rather clued up and in tune with my body and swore if neber go.down the hrt route. Ive not been on any conteaception.for 20 odd yrs...so my body was running 'naturally'. For the past 18 months too..more physical symptoms...very tender coccyx bone, dark bruise like corners under eyes, tbinnkin hair - in a nutshell ive not sort of known myself. If this even makes sense? Lost my glow and mojo so to speak. My periods still.exist but had waned and become irregular. My ladt one was 5 weeks ago.
Anyway.....long tale short i.came acroas hrt.....and part of my intuition told me that this could well be the miasing piece of the puzzle - im.lacking in essential hornones! I did weeks of research...ummed and ahhed..worried and woed. I visited my gp armed with info (dr louisa newsons website) and she is very suppportive ..and prescribed me.elleste duo which I refused and requested estrogel and ustrogesten. She said she would research as werent available on nhs....she then realised they.are and she prescribed me them. I am now on day 6 of 2 pumps.of gel....and 3 days into ustrogesten - i chose to take the Ustro vaginally and on alternate days...no breaks....and at the advice of dr newson.
So....so.far not felt any changes ..but aware early days......but this morn had little period pain like cramps in tum..and im.now bleeding ! Can anyone talk.to me about this? Dr Louisa said alternate days and to check in after 4.weeks...see how om doing. Is it normal to bleed?? I inserted the tab last night..next one will be tomorow and so forth. Any adcise and general reassurance would be lovely. Part of me is already regretting my decision and wondering if i have made the right one !!!
JM x
Hi juliemargaret - I am a bit puzzled by your prescription? I don't think Louise Newson would suggest every other day Utro in your position? From what you say you are very much peri-menopausal if your last period was 5 weeks ago and they are still occurring albeit irregularly. The usual regime would be to take the progesterone cyclically to try to coincide with your natural bleed.
It is almost guaranteed that you will bleed if still peri-menopausal and taking a low dose of progesterone continuously. If you are still ovulating then the added progesterone may be enough to protect your womb but also as your periods diminish you may find you get irregular bleeding either due to the build up from taking hRT or your own cycle. I would take the utrogestan cyclically - the recommended dose is 12 days x 200 mg for women in peri-menopause, and this should give oyu a predictable bleed.
Do consult your doc if you have other persistent worrying symptoms that may not be due to peri-menpoause.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Dear all. Hi. Im.new to this site and.. need some help.! Im nearly 48 and have been peri meno for several yrs. I have teied every bit of self help but the last few months reaches a place of overwhelment and enormous fatigue, no motivation.and a general.feeling of.could t see te lught at the end! Im.rather clued up and in tune with my body and swore if neber go.down the hrt route. Ive not been on any conteaception.for 20 odd yrs...so my body was running 'naturally'. For the past 18 months too..more physical symptoms...very tender coccyx bone, dark bruise like corners under eyes, tbinnkin hair - in a nutshell ive not sort of known myself. If this even makes sense? Lost my glow and mojo so to speak. My periods still.exist but had waned and become irregular. My ladt one was 5 weeks ago.
Anyway.....long tale short i.came acroas hrt.....and part of my intuition told me that this could well be the miasing piece of the puzzle - im.lacking in essential hornones! I did weeks of research...ummed and ahhed..worried and woed. I visited my gp armed with info (dr louisa newsons website) and she is very suppportive ..and prescribed me.elleste duo which I refused and requested estrogel and ustrogesten. She said she would research as werent available on nhs....she then realised they.are and she prescribed me them. I am now on day 6 of 2 pumps.of gel....and 3 days into ustrogesten - i chose to take the Ustro vaginally and on alternate days...no breaks....and at the advice of dr newson.
So....so.far not felt any changes ..but aware early days......but this morn had little period pain like cramps in tum..and im.now bleeding ! Can anyone talk.to me about this? Dr Louisa said alternate days and to check in after 4.weeks...see how om doing. Is it normal to bleed?? I inserted the tab last night..next one will be tomorow and so forth. Any adcise and general reassurance would be lovely. Part of me is already regretting my decision and wondering if i have made the right one !!!
JM x
Hi juliemargaret - I am a bit puzzled by your prescription? I don't think Louise Newson would suggest every other day Utro in your position? From what you say you are very much peri-menopausal if your last period was 5 weeks ago and they are still occurring albeit irregularly. The usual regime would be to take the progesterone cyclically to try to coincide with your natural bleed.
It is almost guaranteed that you will bleed if still peri-menopausal and taking a low dose of progesterone continuously. If you are still ovulating then the added progesterone may be enough to protect your womb but also as your periods diminish you may find you get irregular bleeding either due to the build up from taking hRT or your own cycle. I would take the utrogestan cyclically - the recommended dose is 12 days x 200 mg for women in peri-menopause, and this should give oyu a predictable bleed.
Do consult your doc if you have other persistent worrying symptoms that may not be due to peri-menpoause.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
Interestingly I went to The Newson clinic in April and was advised to take the Utrogestan every other day (but without a break)too. I'm menopausal but with an intact womb. I wonder if this is their general recommendation.
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Dee, how are you coping with the Utrogestan every other day? And what type of estrogen are you using?
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I might try every other day if any one can tell me how they are getting on.
I am rally not coping with Utrogestan every day, even vaginally. I seem to get worse and worse tiredness and brain fog - yesterday I had to go to bed and slept for an hour at 5.30 pm! I never sleep in the day
So options are to try cyclical or every other day.
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I might try every other day if any one can tell me how they are getting on.
I am really not coping with Utrogestan every day, even vaginally. I seem to get worse and worse tiredness and brain fog - yesterday I had to go to bed and slept for an hour at 5.30 pm! I never sleep in the day
So options are to try cyclical or every other day.
I'm exactly the same, can't seem to get my Estrogel amount correct either as too much seems to cause palpitations. Utrogestan causes tiredness and achey legs, water retention and bloatedness. I'm considering going back to my Evorel conti patches now because at least with these I only got occasional palps. All other symptoms seemed ok.
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Tracey E
I thought palpitations were down to not enough estrogen?
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Hi Maggie
I have just come across your post some time ago but I wonder if you are still on this forum or if anyone else can help
I had a total hysterectomy and removal of ovaries at 35 didn't have hrt for 4 years as never had symptoms or hair loss. 6 months ago I started Estrogel after trying elleste solo estrogen patch which didn't suit so stopped started Vagifem week later but then 6/7 weeks later she'd half my hair I then was put on Estrogel 2 pumps tried to increase to 3 but breast pain aniexty insommnia gets worse. I'm. It sure what caused my hair loss the estrogen itself as I don't take progesterone or stopping it , but I seem to be shedding still a lot of hair when I brush my hair very lightly I loose between 5-15 hairs when I brush before showering washing hair blow drying and then a light brush mainly the ends I can then loose between 55-100 hairs if I was to brush fully I reckon this would double and then throughout the day I would find hairs on the floor or hanging out my hair which if I pulled would come out. Would you say the Estrogel is causing hair loss as it feels thinner on the scalp since starting this and although the texture is improved this may be the vitamins or estrogen but still feels thinner. I am now only 40 and my menopause specialist has said I could try progesterone as it won't cause any harm even though I don't need it but am scared Incase this makes hair loss worse. Having my ovaries removed has caused many problems it's effect my bowel and bladder and I only started hrt because of dampness I was getting otherwise still had minimal symptoms I just got on with it. Now I'm at cross roads because Estrogel on it's on is not enough I feel terrible my mood erratic ranging depression aniexty fatigue insomnia headaches body aches I had none of this before starting it but I'm scared to stop it as only 40 and have osteopenia diagnosed but it does say hair loss is side effect of Estrogel ? My hair actually going through menopause was thicker corser grew really quick. I can't have testosterone I till my estrogen levels are higher whereby they were 195 in March and testosterone was 0.8 any advice welcome
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Hi all thanks.for your kind words and support.
Hurdity - Dr Louisa did tell me this regime. I also double checked after i became worried as saw a lot of posts on here re pero and cyclical. ..when i messaged her and asked if she realised i was still peri but been told to take alternate..and not cyclical and if this was correct and as she instructed me to.... and she replied/confirmed yes! And to keep goig and not to worry..(and said the bleed can happen too etc)...so ..? Im.still a little confused though...but thought id give it the 4 weeks and see how i go then let her know as she said.
If.....if i wanted to go cyclical..how would i do it..or change it from.alternate days? Would i just stop or just take 200mg vag.for 12 days or? Just curious.
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Hi ladies, I'd appreciate your thoughts:
For 2.5 years I've been happily on 2 (sometimes 2.5) pumps estrogel daily + 100mg Utrogestan for 7 days at the start of the month (via Dr Studd). In January we doubled my Utrogestan dose to 200mg for 10 days as I was having breakthrough periods. All was well for a while, no breakthrough, and I thought it was sorted. But this month - another breakthrough. I had symptoms of high estrogen this month: my boobs were sore and I was a bit emotional. I'm 52. Could it be I'm still peri and having estrogen surges which sometimes override the regime? It's a bit confusing and I don't like to keep bothering my doctor :-\ Thanks!
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Hi everyone
I am 56 years old and 3.5 years post menopause.
I started using Estradiol and Utrogestan 100mg (taken every night).
I did expect some bleeding but I am now into my 6th month of HRT and I am having my 5th bleed, this one lasting almost 2 weeks already. Is this normal?
I have been out of the country for 3 months but have an appointment with my GP next week. I have considered stopping HRT but without the chance to get online or see a doc I have just been plodding on with it.
At the moment I'm not sure if the pros outweigh the cons. ???
Any advice much appreciated. :)
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Hi ladies who is using Utrogestan cyclically and getting a bleed and is in late 60s possibly early 70s I did post on another thread hoping that Hurdity would respond, but she may have missed it. Wondering if its ok to be getting a bleed that late in life or if one is supposed to go conti, I cannot think of being able to take Progesterone daily, would rather have a small bleed long as its not detrimental.
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If a cycle suits you Cassie and you don't mind the bleed, I don't think it matters how old you are.
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Hello All
Chipping in with my experience - a good one.
I was put on Oestrogen + Utrogestan in 2012 by a Swiss gynaecologist: one pump and a bit per day of gel and twice a week of Utro vaginally. I am intolerant of progesterone; blow up like a balloon and get breast pain. But spreading out the Utro the way I'm doing is working wonderfully well - no more insomnia, no more vaginal atrophy, no brain fog. I feel I'm getting the benefits of the oestrogen without the progesterone downside.
I take the utro on Monday and Thursday nights after climbing into bed, having applied the gel on alternating thighs during my last trip to the loo before bedtime.
I get regular lining scans and they always range from 2.5mm to 3mm. And this Swiss way, which the doctor said is a normal regime throughout France, Switzerland and Italy, produces no bleed - it keeps the lining thin on its own.
Hope this helps!
I have bumped Smarlo' thread. :)
I've started this regime a week ago and already I feel so much better. :)
Previously I was upto 3 pumps of Estrogel and Utrogestan daily. Unfortunately this was regime was causing leg pain, bloating, irregular bleeding and tender breasts. I upped my Estrogel because my hot flushes had returned and also because my VA was not improving. :(
I have to say I feel so much better now! :) My libido has returned and VA much improved, no hot sweats and bloating/leg pain almost gone and bleeding has stopped. I'm only on 1 and a bit pump of Estrogel per day too.
I will be going for a scan in a couple of months just to make sure all is well womb wise. I do think this proves however the need to get the balance of Estrogen and progesterone right. Keep upping the Estrogen dose may not be the answer to all our woes. Hope this helps! X
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Hi Tracey! This is great news. I have been searching for posts like this. Im new to hrt..12 days on gel today and alternate days 100mg Utro.vaginally . Although im.48 and still peti meno my menopause specialist recommended this regime...alternate days. 6 days in last week i had a bleed for 3 days...headache..but the it stopped and no bleed since. Ive been okay-ish....been waking with slight headache most daus....and feeling awfully tired...like i just want to go back to bed!! Please can we chat? Did you experience owt similar when you first began hrt? How long did it take until tou felt as.you do now?.i like the thought of 2 days utro but im.on 2 pumps of gel so maybe thats why she said alternaye days (i also checked with her if alternate days is ok given im still peri and she said yes! And to carry on and to not worry!) Im.just waiting for that...miracle i guess hahaha where i feel energised and alive and have some libido back and feel clear headed etc!! I just want to go back to bed haha. Yesterday my headache was awful....i took some iboprufen in the car on way to gym...then sat outside in car.and waited for them.to take effect..but fell.asleep.for a.few mins.whilst waiting (but then went in and done my weights!!) Pls do share if you felt like me at first or?
Jules xx
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Hi ladies who is using Utrogestan cyclically and getting a bleed and is in late 60s possibly early 70s I did post on another thread hoping that Hurdity would respond, but she may have missed it. Wondering if its ok to be getting a bleed that late in life or if one is supposed to go conti, I cannot think of being able to take Progesterone daily, would rather have a small bleed long as its not detrimental.
Hi there - have posted on your other thread - have been away from forum since last week as have been v busy. I can't see that it would be detrimental. There is a slightly higher risk of endometrial cancer when taking cyclical hRT but it is easy to monitor the bleed and uterus lining. Unfortunately this is not routine on NHS - only when you get unscheduled bleeding - which should be reported so you can be referred for scan.
Hurdity x
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Hi everyone
I am 56 years old and 3.5 years post menopause.
I started using Estradiol and Utrogestan 100mg (taken every night).
I did expect some bleeding but I am now into my 6th month of HRT and I am having my 5th bleed, this one lasting almost 2 weeks already. Is this normal?
I have been out of the country for 3 months but have an appointment with my GP next week. I have considered stopping HRT but without the chance to get online or see a doc I have just been plodding on with it.
At the moment I'm not sure if the pros outweigh the cons. ???
Any advice much appreciated. :)
Hi there BJC_HRT - any bleeding on conti HRT which persists beyond 6 months definitely should be investigated or earlier if you are concerned, so good that you have an appt to check this out now you are almost at 6 months. The most likely explanation is that the progesterone dose is not sufficient for the amount of oestrogen you are taking. You didn't mention the dose? If you are taking utrogestan orally then much may be lost in the system (digestion and metabolism by liver) so an increased dose maybe necessary. However most of us would not tolerate this on a continuous basis. Used vaginally it is more effective at the same dose.
Hurdity x
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Hi Tracey! This is great news. I have been searching for posts like this. Im new to hrt..12 days on gel today and alternate days 100mg Utro.vaginally . Although im.48 and still peti meno my menopause specialist recommended this regime...alternate days. 6 days in last week i had a bleed for 3 days...headache..but the it stopped and no bleed since. Ive been okay-ish....been waking with slight headache most daus....and feeling awfully tired...like i just want to go back to bed!! Please can we chat? Did you experience owt similar when you first began hrt? How long did it take until tou felt as.you do now?.i like the thought of 2 days utro but im.on 2 pumps of gel so maybe thats why she said alternaye days (i also checked with her if alternate days is ok given im still peri and she said yes! And to carry on and to not worry!) Im.just waiting for that...miracle i guess hahaha where i feel energised and alive and have some libido back and feel clear headed etc!! I just want to go back to bed haha. Yesterday my headache was awful....i took some iboprufen in the car on way to gym...then sat outside in car.and waited for them.to take effect..but fell.asleep.for a.few mins.whilst waiting (but then went in and done my weights!!) Pls do share if you felt like me at first or?
Jules xx
Hi Jules I'm postmenopausal but using Utrogestan vaginally twice a week. My body just doesn't like any form of Progesterone so twice weekly is a happy medium for me.
I wasn't getting the headaches on Utrogestan but all the other side effects. I'm still getting the rumbly tummy but all the other negative effects seem to have gone. :)
This is my first week on this regime but already feel so much more energised. Hopefully you'll find a way forward Jules..xx
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Tracey E, are you post meno? Your regime interests me too. I use utrogestan every day and my anxiety isn't abating. It is worse in fact. I am on 3.5 pumps of gel. I went up to 4 and felt worse.
I'm stuck. Don't know what to do. Using utrogestan twice a week on a high dose of oestrogen seems very dangerous but maybe not so much on a lower dose of oestrogen.
Hi Birdy, yes postmenopausal, have you tried reducing the gel yet? Sometimes it's a balancing act with hormones upping one affects the other hormones. And when I upped my gel it brought back my palpitations and breast tenderness.
I have no idea whether Utrogestan twice weekly will work in the long term, only time will tell. But for now my old mojo is back! :D
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Hi again Jules, I too felt sluggish and tired all the time whilst taking Utrogestan daily. I did try it every other day but kept bleeding intermittently and tbh I didn't feel much better. I also had terrible nightmares whilst taking it. :(
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I have reduced the gel half a pump. I was on 2.5 but increased it cos the felt awful. Now i'm On 3. Just cannot find anywhere that feels better. The anxiety is the worst!
I dropped from 3 pumps down to 1, I did feel a bit jittery for the first couple of days. At the same time I dropped the Utrogestan down to twice weekly. After three days I was fine again, maybe your hormones need time to adjust and balance out. I think the drop in the Estrogel coinciding with the drop in Utrogestan must of balanced itself out.
Yesterday I upped my Estrogel dose to 1 1/4 just ensure the Osteoprosis side of things were covered.
I guess were all different Birdy and we all need differing amounts of hormones. That's why a blanket 'take 1 per day continuous' doesn't always work. X
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Thanks so much tracey for replying. Im.tempted to try this!! Reduce estro to 1 and a half and take utro.twice but obviously cant and wont just do this so early into hrt or without at least asking doc (or can i?!?!)
Jules xx
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Thanks so much tracey for replying. Im.tempted to try this!! Reduce estro to 1 and a half and take utro.twice but obviously cant and wont just do this so early into hrt or without at least asking doc (or can i?!?!)
Jules xx
If you are Peri Jules I would wing it by your GP first. Although I haven't told mine but I will request a scan in a couple of months time to make sure there is no womb thickening. Good luck! X
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Thanks Tracey...ill give it a few more days...see if the headache (now a nigraine i think) goes....and if my fatigue diminishes...if not....ill have to seek advise as cant be doing with this....daily migraines and foggyness! Keep u posted! X
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Hi ladies,
Would you say it's normal to feel a bit out of sorts when starting oestrogel? (I haven't started my utrogestan yet)
I've only applied 1 pump but already have dry mouth, feel shabby and sluggish- as though it's too much!
Is this just the initial "hit"?!
My oestradiol level was undetectable recently so maybe even 1 pump's a bit of a surge.
Thanks for any help.
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Do one pump for a couple of weeks and then try increasing to two, or maybe even one and a half for a while. This I think is the usual way, until you find out how much it takes to control symptoms.
JP x
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Thank you so much Birdy and Joaniepat!
That is very reassuring- will persevere :)
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Hi,
I have been on estrogel for 2.5 weeks now. Still trying to guage the right dosage, timing and application location. I wanted to share an observation and ask for advice please.
When I apply it to my inner thighs, I get bloating. On my upper arms, not as much. Does that mean I absorb less when I bloat less?
Sleep is still a mess.
When I apply it on my upper arms, I wake up with water retention - I can tell as I cannot take my rings off. In his book Natural Hormone Balance, Uzzi Reiss says this is an indication of excess estrogen, but is it really? My boobs don't think so. Very confused. I am only on 1 pump.
Where do you absorb it the best?
Thank you xx
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I am sure that you will get a range of answers, but I find arms are better in terms of side effects and symptoms so guess that means absorbtion is better?
I am also on 1 pump. Started on two but had terrible bloating.
Elmsey
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Thank you for your response. Glad that it is working for you. I guess it will take me a few weeks to find my sweet spot with Estrogel (I hope I have one ;-)
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I have just upped my estrogel to 2.5 pumps from 2 & already I feel bloated & my breasts hurt. I hope it will settle down. I upped my dose because of my low moods & anxiety.
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Does anyone know the minimum amount of pumps of estrogel required for protection for osteoporosis?
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Does anyone know the minimum amount of pumps of estrogel required for protection for osteoporosis?
You need a serum estradiol level of about 250 pmol/l. No one can say how many pumps of Estrogel you should use to get that level because it depends how well you absorb it.
JP x
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Hi ladies,
I'm still having issues with my treatment. I'm 54 and my bleeding is still random on Evorel Sequi. Flushes and other symptoms pretty well controlled. My GP recommended Mirena again with oestrogen as gel or patch but I bottled out of the fitting again today I have avoided it for 4 years and feel like she keeps pushing it. My sister didn't do well on it at all. The GP did mention separate oestrogen and progesterone therapy as an alternative before pushing Mirena again, but didn't pursue it I'm assuming this might be what this group is about. I know supply is an issue with lots of brands. I struggled to get this last batch of Evorel and am told it could be my last The women's health nurse is phoning me tomorrow. She can prescribe HRT. I want to try this option. I've been on HRT for 4 years now. Some months I just have the withdrawal bleed, others I have two bleeds as doctor thinks my own cycle is kicking in Prior to HRT I know I had a short pist ovulatory cycle and suspect this may play a part I have tried Conti types too at GP's suggestion. That was a nightmare. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Xxx
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Hi Ladies
Am new to HRT and 9 days into my prescribed dose of 2 pumps of Estrogel. Haven't started Utrogestan yet was told to give it four weeks and then start taking 100 mg daily.
I am feeling very nauseous all the time. Am thinking this may be due to the fact that I have gone 7 years post meno without HRT so my hormone levels must be zero and my body is struggling to adjust to sudden influx of oestrogen. Would that be fair thinking? Should I reduce the dose to one pump for now and see how I go? Can't bear feeling like this especially as I am currently on holiday and should be enjoying myself!
Thanks
W xx
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Thanks Birdy, good advice and that's what I was wondering about reducing the dose. Maybe i'll Stick with two and see how I go.
W xx
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I reckon it will take some time for your body to adjust. It took me at least 5 months to start to feel vaguely normal. You are very early days Westie, 9 days is about a "blink" in hrt terms. Personally it is my theory the longer your body is "out of bonk" the longer it takes to balance. You are just going to have to stick with it I am afraid, hrt really isn't a quick fix. Your body is taking on board something it hasn't had for some time - all sorts of weird things can happen in the first 3 months.
In fact the minimum time for any hrt to work is 3months.
Hope you can persevere, good luck.
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Thank you yes I know you are right and I will persevere am determined to get back to my old self come what may! Or as close as possible anyway!
W xx
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Hi ladies,
Thanks for all the support and info that you've given me :)
I now apply 2 pumps oestrogel and have done so for the past two weeks.
I am massively appreciative that I don't feel suicidal any longer but I could still be better!
I tend to wake with a depressive feeling and I do feel waves of anxiety at any given time- and my energy isn't great.
What I'd like to know is, should I increase my oestrogel now given that it's obviously the stuff for me?!
Or, should I wait the full 3 months before assessing?
It was an arbitrary 2 pumps anyway- decided by me- and I do know that I had nigh-on zero oestradiol before commencing so i guess I'm not overdoing it. Also I'm 47, so relatively young and in need of oestrogen!!
It sounds odd,but I feel like I've plateaued a bit now and am ready to increase- but am i being hasty and should i wait longer?
Also, does anyone know what an "ideal" oestradiol level is- a) for mood and general wellbeing and b) for consideration of tetosterone?
Thank you, lovely ladies x
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Hi there isn't really an ideal oestradiol level as everyone is different . I might feel fine on a low reading but others might need it a lot higher.
I started on 2 pumps of Oestrogel but very quickly went up to 4 and I'm still on 4 18 months later x
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There are no ideal levels vintagefriend. If you are feeling better but not right increase by half a pump or 1 pump for another2 weeks. I did any of my increases 2-3 weeks at a time. I took it right up to 4 like Dotty, stayed there for about 6 months but was getting sore boobs all the time so I dropped it to 3 and my body seems fine with it. It takes a huge while to build up and then level off, well it did for me. Trust your judgement - you know who your body feels. The anxiety takes ages to settle 5 months for me. No totally gone I can still get spooked but the morning thing went after just about 5/6 months.
My energy and libido and brain fogginess responded to testosterone rather than the oestrogel and I was given that 6 months in. They like you to get the gel and progesterone levelled before they will consider (if they are willing to consider and that depends on consultant and/or GP and/or prescribing area) giving testosterone to you.
I have never had any of my hormone levels tested I have been treated based on symptoms.
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Brilliant!
Thank you Dotty and Ladybt28- both super helpful!
Yes, my intuition tells me to increase by up to an extra pump; I'll give my current 2 pumps another week then go for it!
Very interesting to hear that you have v similar symptoms, Lady- i didn't realise the morning depression was a "thing"!
and to read that the anxiety does settle (sort of) is fantastic! even if it takes several months, to know that it's likely makes me sooo happy!
i'm so pleased that the oestrogel has started to give me my life back and am willing to take it slowly in terms of testosterone- it's great to have it on the back-burner!
and i won't get too caught up on levels..just gauge stuff by how i'm feeling.
thanks again :)
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Yes thank you so much everyone these last few posts have been really helpful for me too.
Always fantastic advice on here for which I am so grateful
W xx
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Been heplful.to me also these posts - thanks.
Vintagefriend - are you on utrogestan?
Im 8 weeks in thia friday..2 pumlps of estrogel and alternate days utrogestan (im.48 nearly...and peri and this regime was advised by a reputable meno doc). I mean i dont feel real bad...BUT dont feel amazing neither. No problem with the regime..i just follow it....although had 3 bleeds in 8 weeks and as we speak now im still wiping dark gooey blood (sorry!). I do know this can happen whilst adjusting...so ive just been trying to stay positive and hopeful one day is the day and my mojo and everyrjing else appears! Alas!
The first few weeks i felt okayish..calmer even...less overwhelmed BUT the last 5 days felt rather poo. Quietly agitated..flat..low mood....sore left breast and rather fatigued and i look drained. ..or feel i do anyway. Im.wondering what do i do now? Do i need to up my estrogel to maybe another half pump...taking it to 2 and a half.? The utrogestan....i dont know....not causing any probs unless its.causing them.all....i feel a bit lost and confused....and know i could perhaps feel better but dont know how - ie...what to tweak or change if owt.
Can anyone help x
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I just wonder about every other day utrogestan??? I have never heard of it being prescribed that way? It would make things harder to balance and could account for the random bleeding. You possibly need more gel. Bleeding on a continuous regime (although yours isn't strictly continuous, otherwise you would be using utrogestan every day) usually means not enough gel to balance the system. How was the "every other day" utrogestan explained to you jmargaret?
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Hi ladybt28 - hope u are well. If you have a look on the forum.-.alternate day utrogestan you will see that its more common.now than you may believe - so many women peri.doing same....off license i know but like many other regimes its being used - and sucessfully for some. (Ive been re.reading all.the posts just this eve) It wasnt explained to me well.except to take it this way - i did query it again at the beginning but was told its fine and to keep going as early days. So ive just been doing that and being hopeful.....even acknowledging the bleeds with not too much annoyance or worry! Ha. I just feel.a.little flat....have done for a.good few.daus now hence me.posting for some.opinions and sharing. Pls.do a.search alternate days utrogestan and see.the interesting posts. I must admit its.all overwhelming and im.not seeing the woods for the trees at the min and wondering ok...what now..etc.x
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Hi ladies new to the group. I'm 47 and Peri menopause. I started estradot patches 50mg 10 days ago and 1 sachet of testogel a week also. Feel worse so far with continuous headaches and breast tenderness. Rang the doc yesterday and she advised to cut the patch in half and use the testogel over 10 days. I'm due to start utogestan 200mg on day 14 to 28. I'm on day 13 of my cycle and have started bleeding quite heavily this morning. Any advise?
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Hi JMargaret- (and Acejohnston- i've written a bit at the bottom for you!)
sorry you're feeling a bit crap. I've woken up feeling pretty anxious- kind of gasping as i woke up! and my mood and energy could def be better. So I've decided to up my oestrogel to 3 pumps.
prob not v scientific but i doubt very much that i have too much in my system as no obvious signs of oestrogen overload (at least i think not!)
In answer to the thorny issue of utrogestan.. I haven't taken it yet. I know i have to at some point but don't want to muddy the waters just yet.
I've had utro before (orally) and god, it was awful! i'll try it vaginally this time; is that what you're doing?
with regard to your symptoms...it's so difficult to know, isn't it?- when i was perimenopausal i tried prof studd's (then) regime of 4 pumps a day and 14 days of utro- it was horrendous- i stuck it for 3 months but i was climbing the walls!
but i went straight in to 4 pumps- maybe you're doing the better thing by gradually increasing.
and maybe the utro is fully responsible- i've seen on here ladies try provera instead.
to be honest i've been offered a hysterectomy (womb only) and i'll take up the offer if i find my mojo on oestradiol but can't find a suitable progestogen.
sorry- prob not much help! i hope you find something that lifts you x
Acejohnson,
Hello- sorry that you are not feeling great either. One thing that does stand out is that you've started oestrogen at the same time as testogel. i know that women on here are on regimes where the testosterone therapy is put on hold until the oestrogel/oestrodot has begun to have some sort of therapeutic effect. Could it be too much, too soon? the fact that you have breast tenderness sounds more oestrogenic than anything- but i have read several times on here that testosterone can convert to oestrogen if oestrogen levels insufficient; i'm unsure how scientific this explanation is- but it could def help explain what you're going through. Is a sachet a week quite a lot?! looks like you're cutting down anyway and lessening the patch, too. i don't mean to undermine your doctor as i'm sure there are women who start testosterone at the same time. but it sounds like you've gone from 0-60 very quickly! can i ask is this a gp or meno doc? either way it's great that they are giving you testosterone without quibbling- though i realise it may not feel like that now! have you had blood tests or has the doc just gone on your symptoms? as i said, i found higher doses of oestradiol in perimeno unbearable and wish i'd proceeded more cautiously. good luck x
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Hi vintagefiend...thanks for replying! Yes i use the utro vaginally..doesnt bring about any bother. I actually felt i was getting somewhere as if think back i did feel a bit better.....calmer for want of a better word...less overwhelmed and moody.....i even embraced the 1st bleed knowing body was perhaps just adjusting. I do like the thought of utro balanced like this as not sure want the dips with cyclical? But now wonderkng shall i try cyclical.from.the 15th whixh is soon and for 12 days and see....but then been sort of ok on the alterbate days.so far and coukd just need to up estrogel?! But what do i know! Ha. So yes only been id say the last week ive felt like i did before started hrt....even my bladder has been annoyingly weak! Ive had all the same symptoms i get when due on i think...bladder weak breast tenderness..fatigue....and im. Now bleedjng again properly and the 4th time now since started hrt 8 weeks ago this friday..but i dont know if this is an actual.period or just hrt adjusting..spotting and breakthrough bleeds etc! Also some of the blood when i wee seems floaty...like as If lining shedding .if that makes sense. Ijust feel in limbo and wondering whether to try upping my estrogel to an extra half pump tomorrow... so its then 2 and a half..and ...but..again..how do i know i need to?! Sorry for ranting. Bit confused and at a loss. Hope you find your grounding.....and yes...you do need to stsrt your utro soon. Huuuh.
Oh....also...last night was utro night....norm.i sleep fine but took me a while.to sleep.and i felt restless...like.i used to now and again when coming on a period. X
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Hi vintage fiend, thank you for your comments. My doctor is a menopause doctor. I agree with you I think it's too much all at once and now I'm terrified to take the utogestan tomorrow night. I'm thinking 200mg might be too much for me. I have had numerous blood tests over the last few years and my progesterone has always been low and testosterone on the floor. The last blood tests were in November and showed the same and my estrogen was in range. My FSH then was 12.5 and a year before 35. I had to complete a symptom checker also for the menopause doctor and had nearly all the symptoms. I'm going to call her tomorrow if the bleeding doesn't stop. I hope this is just a hiccup and everything will settle down.
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Hi acejohnston i did mean to acknowledge your post too...then had to drive to school. Im having non stop bleeding at the min....or so it feels ! Im on 2pumps estrogel and 100.g alternate eve vaginal utro. Was ok .....felt it was helping a bit and was just hopeful but the last wrek not felt.great....bloody drained...tired..old ways creepng up. Pls see my other posts. One thing im.aware of though is we do need to give stuff time...hard i know....but please do. ...and stay a d hopeful as.you can ...(says me who is full of query hahaha)
We are all here to support.x
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Thanks JMargaret. I'll have a look at your other posts. You are right about giving stuff time. I'm too impatient and expect to feel better in a few days! Spoke to my pharmacist today and she said that taking any hormones when my own hormones are low will cause my whole system to be out of sync and the bleeding, headaches and breast tenderness can happen and should settle down. She's also going through menopause too and could relate. She told me to give it time. I'm terrified to take the utogestan tomorrow night now. Couldn't deal with any more side effects! I have an eight year old son who is on summer holidays and wants my full attention!! I hope your bleeding stops soon. Big hugs to you xxx
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Hi acejohnston....ahh bless you..i know how you feel. Its horrible isnt it. In not naive but i did hope this was the missing link for me....hrt. tried so hard for too long to do it alone.......i mean i was never bad bad but got to a point a few months ago where i felt really rubbish and it scared me. It was a big decision for me to go onto the hrt....so im a little disheartened. I dobt know whether to try upping the estro in the morning to 2.5 pumps..from.2...but noones coming firward with any advise!
. I thought i was doing ok and it would settle and id feel geeat but the last few days like i said..i feel ive gone backwards...fast! And i have period type pains now too. The bleeds and sore breast etc wouldbt bother me as such if i felt good within.....you know fresher mood and less agitated. I feel horrible.
Take the utro. Try and forget youve taken it (huh) and just see how goes. Pls keep in touch. Jmarg.x
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hang in there ladies!
i can't add much of any value at the moment as i did apply 3 pumps this morning and it was too much- so head full of cotton wool.
i did it in a panic as started to slip into a depression.
but tomorrow's another day x
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Hi everyone, havent been on this website much recently, but looking for a bit of advice and reassurance. Ive been on the oestrogel 200mg utrogestan regime for about 12 months and was doing really well.
Im 59 now and been period free for about 10 years.
Because i was feeling so good i have been reducing thr gel to half a pump every other day and utrogestan only for 6 nights as hefty dose for low oestrogen dose.
I asked gp for 100mg pessaries which are another type and i feel awful on them so stopped after 2 nights.
My anxiety js flooding back, palpitations every day in the afternoon (odd), id forgotte how low i got without this regime.
Also got tinnitus from time to tjme whjch is a pain in the whatnot!!
Ive gone back up to 1 good pump of gel a day but when shall i start the utrogestan as havent had bleed for months.
(I have 6 monthly scans a,l ok), do i just count today as maybe day 14 of utrogestan dose. Im confused as to where i am in the cycle now, but going back on the 200mg utrogestan pessaries.
Is this why im beginning to slide into that pit?... ? Do hormone requirements fluctuate well into post menopausal years? Just feeling so isolated with it all, and im the only woman on tbis regime in my gps surgery apparently so gp pretty much relies on this website😊thanks everyone , lilyloos x
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Hi Lilyloos. As you are post menopause then why don't you take 100mg of Utrogestan daily? That's the post menopause dosage x
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Hi Dotty, yeah post menopausal, no period for 10 years but started early peri meno at 42 so been on hrt pretty much since about 45. Im ringing gp tomorrow to ask for the utrogestan again, but in the 100mg caps whjch ill use as pessaries. Will see if thjs helps, im supposed to be going on holiday in 2 weeks and i just dont want to go, confidence is gone x
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Yep symptoms can come back - even 10 years post meno. Depends how you suffer, but your body is going through withdrawal,
Lilyloos...it was quite happy and now it's not, cos its missing something. I am 57 and suffered really badly with meno..there is no way I would even consider reducing or giving up my doses...they are going to have to prise open my cold dead hands to get it off me!!! but that's just me.
I would just pick up on the cycle where you left off but if you are going 100mg every night vaginally (the oral utro can be used vaginally by the way - there is no need for a different kind - they work the same, then you just start and keep going.
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Ladybt28 thanks so much for your no nonsense reply .... this is what my rational head says, but I lose ALL rationale when I slide into that pit of damn meno hell. I thought I had it sorted and could maybe start coming off it!!!! Will dig deep and claw my way back ;D. 2014 was a year I lost completely due to this malarchy, I truly thought life was over, it was hell. I'm not anywhere near that now but it's a slippery slope.
Yeah not coming off this any time soon, if ever. Thank you :) LL x
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Hi all, so I've started oestrogel/dose, I'm not good with 'drugs' as a rule, so I've taken 4 days to get up to full dose (will be having 2 pumps this evening!).
I'm 52, last period over 2 years ago...the Dr has also prescribed utrogestan....she's prescribed it for every day....I'm worried I'll be intolerant, from memories of cyclogest yrs ago.....would it be better starting on it for 14 days a month first?
Also, as a rule, how long till oestrogel kicks in?.....I would like to see if it's helping for a couple of weeks, before starting the utrogestan, so if I have any effects, especially bad, I know which it's more likely to be.....hope that all makes sense 🤯
Thanks 🙂
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Hi Winnie .. am sure someone will be along soon to give more advice but I think you're right in just trying to gel for 14 days first .... particularly if your on a continuous regime of oestro and progest every day. It can be a fine balancing act but you would know within a week if the Oestrogel is not giving you unwanted side effects. Good luck with it all 😊 LL
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Hi Winnie...dont suppose youve any advise or thoughts on mine. My post was just above lillyloos but no-ones come.along yet with a reply.
2 months now on alternate day urtro vag...and.2.pumps.estrogel. still.bleeding today....no.pain or bother but its there. Also been tired today and was utro eve last night! Gutted i never had.an estro only.fee weeks to see if helped...went strsight onto the utro as well. im peri.and my doc prescribed for days 1.- 25 100mg utro but as i couldnt tolerate orally another top.meno.doc.said try alternate days vaginally...which had been ok that way but.havent felt.much better and as my prec post lots bleeding.
. Wondering if need to try a cycle...but...when do i start..etc
Would love any insight...feel.alone and confused and just plodding along. (My doc is.great but not fully aware i dont think as she did prescribe a conti method and im.peri....!! x)
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Hiya, bless you, I'm sorry, I haven't much of a clue yet....as only a beginner with all this, and don't know much about peri....only just know what I'm trying..... hopefully someone else will answer who knows more than me....you're not alone tho x
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Hi LL, thanks for your reply....I'll keep doing what I'm doing then.....it's so hard , with all the different meds, doses etc!
Thanks x
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Hi winnie...ohhh im.so sorry!! Inwas getting mixed up and that message was meant for lilyloos or anyine else who may be able.to help! Of course..youre also navigating....its hard isnt it! Hopefully we both will.find some.joy!!!
Xx
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Hiya, good luck, hope u get some good advice/suggestions.....I'm feeling really yuk and down, on 4th day of oestrogel, hope it lifts soon! X
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jmargaret - sorry I didn't reply properly. I notice in your last post that you are peri. My first comment is that your consultant has prescribed the method of gel and utro which is usually used for post meno ladies, eg continuous utro day 1-25. I would suggest this is the cause of your bleeding.
The usual way in peri is on a cycle which should then balance in with your own cycle as you still have loads of your own homones floating about whereas post meno women have hardly any.
The cycle method is days 1 - 15 gel only. Days 15 to 26 utrogestan 200mg taken at night (you can do this either orally or vaginally - if you are struggling orally use it vaginally - I find it has much less side effects that way.
I think what is happening on a continuous regime days 1-25 as you prescription is at the moment, is that your own progesterone is combining in surges with the Utrogestan and causing extra bleeding you should not have. No wonder you are feeling a bit rubbish
You should really be on a cycle as you are peri. I will try and help you switch over if I can - what day are you on at the moment?
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Ladybt - I answered Jmargaret's query on another thread where she mentioned the same thing so hopefully she has seen it! Here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,44077.msg713421.html#msg713421
Hi all, so I've started oestrogel/dose, I'm not good with 'drugs' as a rule, so I've taken 4 days to get up to full dose (will be having 2 pumps this evening!).
I'm 52, last period over 2 years ago...the Dr has also prescribed utrogestan....she's prescribed it for every day....I'm worried I'll be intolerant, from memories of cyclogest yrs ago.....would it be better starting on it for 14 days a month first?
Also, as a rule, how long till oestrogel kicks in?.....I would like to see if it's helping for a couple of weeks, before starting the utrogestan, so if I have any effects, especially bad, I know which it's more likely to be.....hope that all makes sense 🤯
Thanks 🙂
Hi winnie
I agree with Lilyloos suggestion - and also agreeing with your first thoughts - to try it cyclically at first and then you will get an idea of how well you feel on the oestrogen only before introducing progesterone. Even better the prescribed dose is actually only 12 days per month ( x 200 mg). I noticed an improvement with patches within days and hopefully you will feel the same with gel - ie flushes and sweats start to become less frequent and then disappear completely - hopefully the same for you - fingers crossed :).
Are you going to be taking it orally or vaginally? The dose is probably lower than you took of Cyclogest - depending on the reason you took the latter of course....
Hurdity x
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Good morning am in need of some hope and reassurance please!
Am on week 3 of two pumps os Estrogel which I apply each morning. After years of trying to cope without HRT I was finally convinced that this is my missing link and would be the answer to my ongoing symptoms. Now I know I can't expect miracles in three weeks but I was hoping for a small improvement especially as most people seem to see a reduction in sweats etc fairly early on.
So, after three weeks I have an on going feeling of nausea very similar to continuous morning sickness which is quite debilitating and my night sweats if anything have got worse, I woke up Four times last night completely drenched. My anxiety is through the roof again too.
I know I have to give it 3 months and I really don't want to give up this soon but I am really struggling to cope like this.
Can anyone offer some reassurance or advice as to what I should do? I have thought about increasing the dose but really don't want to feel anymore nauseous than I am.
W xx
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Hi Westie did you suffer with nausea before you started the hrt? X
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Hi Dolly I did now and again v mildly but nothing like this. Have read the leaflet re side effects and nausea is one of them but this really is quite debilitating.
W x
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Hiya, thanks for your reply....must admit I can't remember dose of cyclogest....it was to help severe PMS symptoms, but it didn't!
I'm only 5 days into the oestrogel, and so I know it's VERY early days, but at the moment my flushes and sweats seem to be much worse.
I'm going to try the utrogestan cyclically first I think (will I get a bleed? That will be novel, as none for 2/3 years!). I think I'm going to try it orally first, see how I go. I'm more nervous starting the progesterone, but not for over a wk yet....oh, if I have it cyclically, will it have to be 200mg, not 100mg?
Thanks 🙂
Ladybt - I answered Jmargaret's query on another thread where she mentioned the same thing so hopefully she has seen it! Here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,44077.msg713421.html#msg713421
Hi all, so I've started oestrogel/dose, I'm not good with 'drugs' as a rule, so I've taken 4 days to get up to full dose (will be having 2 pumps this evening!).
I'm 52, last period over 2 years ago...the Dr has also prescribed utrogestan....she's prescribed it for every day....I'm worried I'll be intolerant, from memories of cyclogest yrs ago.....would it be better starting on it for 14 days a month first?
Also, as a rule, how long till oestrogel kicks in?.....I would like to see if it's helping for a couple of weeks, before starting the utrogestan, so if I have any effects, especially bad, I know which it's more likely to be.....hope that all makes sense 🤯
Thanks 🙂
Hi winnie
I agree with Lilyloos suggestion - and also agreeing with your first thoughts - to try it cyclically at first and then you will get an idea of how well you feel on the oestrogen only before introducing progesterone. Even better the prescribed dose is actually only 12 days per month ( x 200 mg). I noticed an improvement with patches within days and hopefully you will feel the same with gel - ie flushes and sweats start to become less frequent and then disappear completely - hopefully the same for you - fingers crossed :).
Are you going to be taking it orally or vaginally? The dose is probably lower than you took of Cyclogest - depending on the reason you took the latter of course....
Hurdity x
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Hi Westie it could be that what you are experiencing are increased menopausal symptoms and not side effects from the hrt . You need to give the hrt time to work.
I speak from experience. I was on Elleste Duet Conti for 3 months and was getting worse. Once I got onto the right type and dose of hrt my symptoms started to improve. What I thought were side effects were actually the menopause symptoms continuing as the original dosage of hormones were not enough x
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Thanks Dotty that is very helpful I think you could be right. I might start upping the gel to three pumps to see if it helps. It really is trial and error but I am determined to sort it out.
Do you use the gel?
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Hi Westie yes I use gel. 4 pumps a day and been on it for 18 months now. X
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Ok so I think I will definitely up the dose next week and see how things improve. Am guessing that because I am 7 years post meno and have therefore been without oestrogen for some time, two pumps probably isn't enough.
Thanks again
W x
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Westie
I have been using estrogel for 6 months 2 pumps after 3 months seem to be obsorbing it ok however 4 months after taking I started feeling nausea like morning sickness still am at 6 months had estrogen levels retested and I'm not obsorbing it my levels are lower I also had bad hair thinning shedding loss on the estrogel so at the moment have stopped I'm only 40 had early surgical menopause at 35 however took no HRT for 4 years as no Symtoms but know I need something I am thinking bout going in the contraceptive pill and taking a progesterone to balance estrogens effects as I stopped it due to bad constipation weight gain bloating fluid retention in ankles and feet and hair loss and severe stomach gas I have IBS and slow transit lazy bowel so can't be doing with GI problems from Estrogen I have a few hot flushes come back since stopping and mood abit depressed crying but seeing menopause on 25th so will ask for advice on the pill or trying everol pAtch cause I'm not obsorbing the gel and I tried to increase dosage but aniexty went through the roof and mood swings so bear that in mind when upping it
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TraceyE - how have you been getting on? X
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TraceyE - how have you been getting on? X
I'm waiting to have a Mirena coil fitted on the 9th August, fingers crossed it works.. X
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Ahh so the 2 day utro.was no good then? (Was it 2 day?) X
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I was taking 7 day Utro but the PMS symptoms were horrendous plus the Utro was giving me joint pain first thing in the mornings. So I've opted with this option stay on the Estrogel and have a Mirena fitted. No idea if it will work mind.
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Ohh no...were they?! Was this vag too? God.its so hard eh. Im on tje alternate....was debating to try a 12 day 100mg cycle... not fancied the coil.although my sister says its great! Im.sorry the 7 day utro didnt help u....woukdve been so great had it!! And just 100mg too? Were you on a different regime before the 7 days?
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Ohh no...were they?! Was this vag too? God.its so hard eh. Im on tje alternate....was debating to try a 12 day 100mg cycle... not fancied the coil.although my sister says its great! Im.sorry the 7 day utro didnt help u....woukdve been so great had it!! And just 100mg too? Were you on a different regime before the 7 days?
Yes I was on the 28 day cycle and that was even worse. :(
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jmargaret - You are only just starting out, so if it does not settle utrogestan may not be for you? Provera is the alternative or a mirina. Unless you try either you will not know if they work for you. I cant take provera at all in any shape or form but utrogestan is ok for me. Yes I get down but because its on a cycle (but I use a long cycle) I know what to expect. Once its gone I'm fine. My alternative is to give up hrt altogether which would be akin to a death wish for me.
Unless you try a cycle and vaginally too for 3 months you will never know what will happen. Then after that you need to try another progesterone for 3 months and see what happens and so it goes on until you either give up or find the right thing that you can live with.
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Hello again ladybt28...i did reply to your kind reply on other post. Im not going onto all different threads asking different people the same questions..im merely just reading and enquiring..and chatting on the forum.
I took all you said on board....but i wasnt as you know querying utrogestan itself...was querying the regime im on and other regime alternatives and always good to read others stories and ask.
X
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Hi guys
I'm after some advice I've been on estrogel 6 months 2 pumps and has been great except hair shedding I have swapped to estradot patch although still shedding but only day 2 , how long will it take to know if if it was the estrogel causing the hair shedding - as I'm hoping by changing to a patch it will stop the only other thing I'm worried about is the estrogel was great for my VA symtoms and I don't think the patch is working as well as 2 days on it and can notice the difference in vagina x
Thank you ladies
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Hi guys
I'm after some advice I've been on estrogel 6 months 2 pumps and has been great except hair shedding I have swapped to estradot patch although still shedding but only day 2 , how long will it take to know if if it was the estrogel causing the hair shedding - as I'm hoping by changing to a patch it will stop the only other thing I'm worried about is the estrogel was great for my VA symtoms and I don't think the patch is working as well as 2 days on it and can notice the difference in vagina x
Thank you ladies
Are you taking progesterone too?
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Hi Tracey e
No I have no progesterone as had full hysterectomy 5 yrs ago so ovaries removed.
But I have only been on HRT estrogen only 6 months and in that time I've had lots of hair shedding I didn't have any hair loss prior to starting HRT
My blood work is all fine have had all that tested have also seen hair specialist who has said the likely hood is hormones have triggered it but not sure if medication itself or imbalance between estrogen and progesterone or just low estrogen ?
Thanks
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Hi Tracey e
No I have no progesterone as had full hysterectomy 5 yrs ago so ovaries removed.
But I have only been on HRT estrogen only 6 months and in that time I've had lots of hair shedding I didn't have any hair loss prior to starting HRT
My blood work is all fine have had all that tested have also seen hair specialist who has said the likely hood is hormones have triggered it but not sure if medication itself or imbalance between estrogen and progesterone or just low estrogen ?
Thanks
Hi Sammie, it may be the imbalance but tbh my hair loss has increased since taking Estrogel. So I'm wondering if there is an alternative estrogen I could take..
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I woke this morning after an unbroken nights zzzz (was utro nigt last night - i take it alternate nights) and aldo stsrted bleeding yesterday which im convinced is my own cycle kicked in (im.peri) - i feel bloody knackered. Like a zombie almost and just want to zzzzzzz. No motivation. I did up my estrogel dose an extra half pump eaterday and today (from 2 to 2 half).....could it be too much for me? Felt ok yesterday! Could it just be the bleed contributing also? Hate this. Hate hrt so far. My energy motivation and enthusiasm is rubbish. Feel poo. Mojo doesnt seem to be coming back!! Little rant over!
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Its the bleed JM and yes it is your own cycle. Some adjustment in the gel may have that affect in the short term but I'm pretty sure it's the bleed. You take your utro orally don't you - which may account for the grogginess. Hang on in there - at the start everything varies day to day and some stuff you just cant account for. What you need to know is how many "good" days or "better" days you get over a period of time.
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Hello my friend..
.utro is vaginally. Oh im a bore i know....feel that abt me too. God only knows how my poor hubby feels.....im like a broken record.
Yes woke and just even now wanna go sleep. Cant be bothered doin owt although my heart is ok and knows! And ive stil that voice in my ehad saying OK.....its day 1..why dont u tru the sequi whilst u have the opp..ie..a bleed...and have 14 dahs utro free and see how enjoy the gel!!! Last night i was like ok...another month and see! But then woke and although had a good planed oit positive day..havent done frig all. Im very active and in great shape and lift weights reg....havent been this morn as planned but eating lunch now to.get ready to go as know will help pick me up....shake it off..or so i hope.
Just so confused and lost and a bit sotry started this journey...although i know something had to give.
My hair is a bit different too.....dead.
Just feel so tired..unmotovated and jittery and queryibg the increase in gel...maube 2.was enough and just needed the utro changing. Sorry ladybt28 for my boring rants. Glad youre ihere though xx
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Hi Tracey e and birdy
My estrogen in March 2019 was 195 and testosterone 0.8
In June 2019 my estrogen was 104 and testosterone 0.6 so I'm not absorbing the estrogel as well as they had hoped however still shedding hair and I would of thought if it was low estrogen causing it then I would of shed lots of prior to starting HRT and as my level of estrogen has gone down I would be shedding more which I'm not I'm shedding a constant rate but to much my testosterone is low however can't give me testosterone unless my estrogen is 250-300 . I have spoken to my friend and she is on estrogen patch only 100mg and has not had hairloss intact most women shouldn't be getting hairloss on estrogen however it is listed as side effect on a lot of the therapy's I'm on estradot patch to rule out of it was the estrogel but it's no way as good as the estrogel but it's only been couple days so where see but I shed hair initially before starting estrogel through starting and stopping HRT patch which didn't suit so I can't say for defo if the estrogel is contributing so I'm playing around abit but otherwise the estrogel was good once my body adjusted just wish the hair would stop shedding which makes me think maybe I need progesterone but I'll keep u updated , there is a few women on this site who have reported hair loss on estrogel so I don't know ?
Tracey do u just take estrogel or progesterone too ?
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Sammie I take Utrogestan (7days per month) and Estrogel daily 1.5 pumps. Maybe it is the imbalance of it all causing it. I'm having a mirena fitted on the 9th August so we'll see if it improves then..
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Hi Ladies,
Just looking for some advice re bleeding on continuous Utrogestan. I Have been taking utrogestan with Estrogel since January and still having light bleeding every approx. 4 weeks. Menopause doctor asked me to arrange transvaginal scan which came back fine, endometrial lining is 4.5mm thick.
I take 3 pumps Estrogel daily and 100mg Utrogestan by mouth each night. My menopause doctor has asked me to phone her tomorrow to update her how the bleeding is coming along. I'm just concerned that although lining is ok she may suggest marina coil instead of Utrogestan which I do not fancy at all. Just want to be prepared with options before I speak with her. Would inserting vaginally have a better outcome re bleeding?
Thank you,
Grace x
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Hi Birdy,
Thanks for replying. I am post meno, 15 months since last period. I might speak to her about trying 200mg cyclically as I don't mind having a bleed and was lucky to not have heavy periods at all so it wouldn't really bother me. I know mirena is great for some people but I haven't personally had good feed back from friends and relatives who have had it.
Grace x
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Hi Gracie were you post menopause , 12 months period free when you started the Oestrogel in January? X
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Hi Dotty,
Sorry yes I was, miscounted! last period end of December 2017. I had my consultation in December 2018 and started Estrogel 2 pumps and then added in Utrogestan 1 month later in the January x
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Hello everyone,
I have seen gynecologist today for I have heavy periods when I have them which can be fortnightly or three weeks sometimes five weeks apart. The gynecologist is arranging for hysteroscopy to check the womb lining and has encouraged me to have the Mirena fitted at the same time. I am using the Evorel sequi patches for the last three months and I have not seen any improvement in my symptoms so wondering if Mirena is the solution!!! I am a bit nervous for I have never had any children and other than having a smear never had any thing invasive inside me.
Can anyone who has had the Mirena please advise if this will be right course of treatment.
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Hello everyone,
I have seen gynecologist today for I have heavy periods when I have them which can be fortnightly or three weeks sometimes five weeks apart. The gynecologist is arranging for hysteroscopy to check the womb lining and has encouraged me to have the Mirena fitted at the same time. I am using the Evorel sequi patches for the last three months and I have not seen any improvement in my symptoms so wondering if Mirena is the solution!!! I am a bit nervous for I have never had any children and other than having a smear never had any thing invasive inside me.
Can anyone who has had the Mirena please advise if this will be right course of treatment.
I've had a coil fitted before and it wasn't too bad, similar to a smear. I'm having a mirena fitted on the 9th August..
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Good morning ladies
Can I ask for those of you that are on estrogel only and estrogel combines with progesterone -utrogestan 100mg have you notice any hair loss or increased hair shedding ?
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Hi SammieJane,
I would say I had increased shedding for a few months and seems to have settled at the moment. My hair is drier and duller than before taking HRT, but my hair thinning started a few years ago so before taking HRT. How does your scalp look? mine is quite pink and that is where my thinning is most noticeable to me along my parting line and crown. I hate going into shops and restaurants with bright lights now!
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I'm only in 7 days Utrogestan so my shedding must be the Estrogel..
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Are you shredding too Tracey?
Sammie - mine went really fine and lots of shedding prior to hrt...I was low in zinc apparently. Shed a.scary lot too. This was also one of my perimeno symptoms...my hair loss i think. Ive been on hrt 3 months and a week today....alterbate day 100mg vag utro and 2 pumps gel. Not sure if hair is better or worse.....i do know that after its washed i dont know who it belongs to ! It seems dull and see through. I put it back and ignore it!! Want to try a sequi but this is also a worry of mine...the hair loss on estro (or 12 days prog!)
X
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Well I'm going to give Estradot patches a go and see if it improves. I'll keep you posted.. :o
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Ahh pls do Tracey
Hope they are better for you
X
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Hi Ladies, I just wondered if anyone had any experience if switching from continuous gel and vaginal utrogestan to oral utrogestan? I've been taking 2x pumps of gel and 100mg for almost 4 months, but I want to try orally as I'm getting some irritation and it's not practical for me to take it vaginally everyday. I've felt okay mood/symptom wise so far, apart from some initial teething problems (breast pain, tiredness etc) although I'm still unfortunately experiencing bleeding on and off. I'm now on my 5th period type bleed (they've all lasted between 6-7 days) but I'm really hoping this will settle down soon as my bleed is a bit heavier today :(
Do you think I should wait until this latest bleed has finishing before I switch route or should I just go for it?! One of the main reasons I've put it off is I'm worried about side effects, but know I'm not going to know until I try. I'm also not sure if I'm bleeding more due to taking it vaginally, but it's all just completely confusing me now!
I was diagnosed with POI 4 years ago and hadn't had a period for 2 years before starting the HRT.
Thank you :)
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Hi Butterfly16
Im.not one of the experienced members at all...so one of the other lovely ladies will im.sure be along soon with great advice...but.im.sure they may say go for it if thats what youve decided youre doing - bleed or not. I take itnyoire post and on conti.method - every day? I am.peri and on 2 pumps gel an alternate.eve utrogestan 100mg vaginally....like you nearly 4 months. Few.teething probs like u too ..also the bleeds....on my 5th too. Ive been just ok....not as amazing as hoped...had a few days of feeling wiped and one or 2 bad moodys but nothing unexpecred for utro i dont think.Many have said i should.try a cycle...i have been so indecisive as to do this....fear i suppose...and worried to upset the applecart. Upped my gel.to 2 and a half yesterday...and was.today needing to make.the decision.whether to insert my utro this eve as notmal.or.wait until.day 15.and try a cycle. Still undecided at this moment and bedtime.soon hahaha. Youve made a decision....so yes i think do orally tonight regardless of bleed.
X
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Hi, I am a newbie and not even sure if I am posting this in the right place - apologies if I have messed up the forum (!), but am hoping for some advice.
In June it was suggested as I am 55 that I go on to continuous Utrogestan. All was not exactly stable on the sequential regime - I would go for 4 months without a bleed, then have a couple of regular months, then have a bleed every two weeks, then go for a couple of months without etc and this was partly the reason I welcomed the opportunity for moving to "no bleed". From day three of taking the Utrogestan daily (100mg), I started to have cramp and then bleeding for 7 days. It stopped for about 10 days and then started again, this time like a full blown period.
This has now slowed and rather than using tampons I just use a pad and there is nothing visible on the pad, but when I go to the toilet and wipe myself and check there is light blood in my vaginal cavity - sorry for this "too much information". What I am wondering is if this could be polyps rather than uterine bleeding ? I am on 4 x pumps of Oestrogel and 100mg Utrogestan per day plus daily testosterone gel. Meno doctor has just recommended taking 200 mg daily of Utrogestan for 2 weeks then having a 2 week break (and continue this for 3/6 months, then revert back to one 100mg per day) in order to help with the erratic bleeding but I am concerned about the side effects of the extra progesterone (I was particularly intolerant of Progesterone in the early days and could only manage 7 days in a month), and wonder if it is polyps if this would help control the bleeding anyway?
Although things were not particularly regular before starting the continuous regime, I am now in completely unfamiliar territory, with this erratic "bleeding" and feel very concerned and as though I should just stop HRT altogether. I had blood tests recently which showed Estradiol at 263 and Testosterone at 19 - the meno doctor has recommended that i reduce the dose of the Testim gel due to this high level. I was only applying a small amount to my upper arm.
The questions I have are:
Is this type of bleeding normal and/or is this indicative of polyps or just a fairly typical light bleed?
Has anyone had success with this 200 mg Utro x 14 days for 3/6 months, followed by 100mg every day from then on?
Would you recommend I continue with the current dose (100mg daily) as I have been taking that for 8 weeks and therefore not for the recommended 3 months as yet?
Out of interest, has anyone had similar levels of T in their blood tests?
I started HRT when I was 52 and peri. I do not know if I am actually post menopausal as the HRT has in effect taken over my hormone supply/levels. Is there any way of knowing if you actually are post menopausal other than the likelihood that I am given my age?
I know we are all different, but I would really appreciate any help or advice from this incredible forum. Thank you in advance x
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Hello montyzooma
So sorry you are having problems, I am not surprised you are confused!
I too am new to the Estrogel/ utrogestan routine and by no means an expert but given that you do seem to be having erratic bleeding which is clearly concerning you it might be worth asking for a scan to check all is well and put your mind at rest.
Erratic bleeding is to be expected I understand during the first six months of the regime but as you don't know whether you are still in peri or post it is difficult to know whether the bleeding is caused by your own hormones breaking through.
There are so many lovely ladies on here with far more experience than me who will be along shortly to help I am sure.
Just be assured that you will always find help and advice here, it has been a life saver for me and you are definitely not alone.
W xx
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Hi jmargaret,
Thanks for your reply. Yes I'm classed as post meno, I'm 40 but hadn't had a period for 2 years and diagnosed with early meno/poi. On the advice of heather currie and a Menopause specialist they recommended a continuous regime, which I thought would be great as no bleeding yay...but unfortunately at the moment they that's not the case :(
I didn't end up taking orally last night as I forgot I'd need to wait two hours after eating and ended up eating too late! I too am very indecisive about what to do regarding whether to try a cycle, but will try and give continuous another couple of months. It's so confusing though, there have been a few times over the last couple of months where I have just wanted to stop altogether, but I've been told I need HRT due to early meno so feel I can't win at the moment! Yes I agree, it's scary making a decision to ty a different route or HRT, wish things were more straightforward. I hope you are able to find a routine and method that suits you soon soon :)
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Hi, I am a newbie and not even sure if I am posting this in the right place - apologies if I have messed up the forum (!), but am hoping for some advice.
In June it was suggested as I am 55 that I go on to continuous Utrogestan. All was not exactly stable on the sequential regime - I would go for 4 months without a bleed, then have a couple of regular months, then have a bleed every two weeks, then go for a couple of months without etc and this was partly the reason I welcomed the opportunity for moving to "no bleed". From day three of taking the Utrogestan daily (100mg), I started to have cramp and then bleeding for 7 days. It stopped for about 10 days and then started again, this time like a full blown period.
This has now slowed and rather than using tampons I just use a pad and there is nothing visible on the pad, but when I go to the toilet and wipe myself and check there is light blood in my vaginal cavity - sorry for this "too much information". What I am wondering is if this could be polyps rather than uterine bleeding ? I am on 4 x pumps of Oestrogel and 100mg Utrogestan per day plus daily testosterone gel. Meno doctor has just recommended taking 200 mg daily of Utrogestan for 2 weeks then having a 2 week break (and continue this for 3/6 months, then revert back to one 100mg per day) in order to help with the erratic bleeding but I am concerned about the side effects of the extra progesterone (I was particularly intolerant of Progesterone in the early days and could only manage 7 days in a month), and wonder if it is polyps if this would help control the bleeding anyway?
Although things were not particularly regular before starting the continuous regime, I am now in completely unfamiliar territory, with this erratic "bleeding" and feel very concerned and as though I should just stop HRT altogether. I had blood tests recently which showed Estradiol at 263 and Testosterone at 19 - the meno doctor has recommended that i reduce the dose of the Testim gel due to this high level. I was only applying a small amount to my upper arm.
The questions I have are:
Is this type of bleeding normal and/or is this indicative of polyps or just a fairly typical light bleed?
Has anyone had success with this 200 mg Utro x 14 days for 3/6 months, followed by 100mg every day from then on?
Would you recommend I continue with the current dose (100mg daily) as I have been taking that for 8 weeks and therefore not for the recommended 3 months as yet?
Out of interest, has anyone had similar levels of T in their blood tests?
I started HRT when I was 52 and peri. I do not know if I am actually post menopausal as the HRT has in effect taken over my hormone supply/levels. Is there any way of knowing if you actually are post menopausal other than the likelihood that I am given my age?
I know we are all different, but I would really appreciate any help or advice from this incredible forum. Thank you in advance x
Hi montyzooma7 (what a name!!!)
:welcomemm:
As westie says if you are not yet post-menopausal then your own cycle will come into play sometimes and lead to unpredictable bleeding. How long were you on the previous HRT and what were your periods doing before you started HRT? This might give a clue as to where you are on the menopause journey. Yes your age is a good indication especially if you were late peri when you started - but some women have late menopause too.
Also if you were taking 100 mg utrogestan for 7 days then this is far far less than the licensed dose so could easily lead to build up of the uterus lining and then unpredictable shedding ) as the lining thickens and the progesterone dose not being sufficient to shed it fully. The licensed dose is 12 days x 200 mg and probably only works well with low to medium doses of oestrogen. High doses of oestrogen often need correspondingly higher doses of progesterone.
If you were not stable on a sequential regime then it isn't likely that you would stabilise quickly on the continuous regime when the cylical regime was inadequate. What is probably happening now is your possibly overthickened lining is beginning to shed in response to the progesterone and may continue to do so for some weeks or months?
In your position I would return to a cycle and take the licensed dose ideally vaginally, have a few "good" bleeds, and then after a few cycles have a scan just after your bleed to check your lining thickness to make sure it is within normal limits, and then take it from there?
Blood tests are notoriously inaccurate. Depending on the units that T was measured - yes that is high but if you apply to your arm did you have the blood drawn from the same arm? How soon after the T application was it taken? I always apply T to the inside of my knee....a pea-sized blob....how much are you using ie how long doies a sachet last? I would ask for another blood test and also SHBG should be measured too. The oestrogen reading is also not high for 4 pumps of gel - although perfectly acceptable if your symptoms are more or less eliminated - my levels are lower than this (on a patch) - maybe you do not absorb it well although the bleeding indicates you are absorbing some of this!
Hope this helps a little and do ask more questions if you need to!
Hurdity x
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Hello Westie and Hurdity
Thank you for your advice and comments.
Hurdity I originally started on HRT in 2016 and was on 3 pumps of gel and initially 12 days X 200 mg, but I such bad side effects that the meno dr recommended I came down to the 7 x 1000 mg a month which was far more tolerable. I then increased that up to 12 days x 100 mg as I seemed to have less side effects and understood about the need for a good dose of progestreone to protect the endometrium. Unfortunately this did not regularise any bleeding as I would sometimes go for 4/5 months without a bleed and then have one closely followed by another. Prior to a special holiday I decided to go on to Northisterone in replacement of the Utrogestan as this had always worked to stop periods when I was regularly having them. This was a long holiday and therefore a long time on Northisterone. Unfortunately, when I stopped it I had horrendous sweats (something I had not really experienced before) and it was as though my body was really getting fed up with the HRT.
Meno Doc suggested I increase the Gel to 5/6 pumps which I did for 12 weeks and this seemed to settle the sweats and I then dropped down to 4 and returned to Utrogestan 100mg x 12 days, but the lack of any certainty in terms of bleeding led me to talk to my GP about going on to a continuous regime. I started this on June 16th and really wish I hadn't!
Prior to starting on HRT, I had gone for 5 months without a period then one would come along. I had the odd hot sweat but nothing too significant, but was tired and completely lacking in libido. I'll have to say that since going on the HRT along with the Testosterone this has completely reversed and possibly for the first time in my life I am enjoying (as is my husband!) a very fulfilling sex life. That was until going on to the continuous regime and having this erratic bleeding.
I will try, the 200 mg vaginally, as you recommended Hurdity. Sorry to be direct, but do I insert one immediately after the other and just hope they don't pop out :) and also if we are able to have sex, presumably I would pop them in afterwards - really sorry to ask. Hopefully the side effects will be minimised this way and the benefits maximised.
Thank you for the advice on the testim gel. I would never have thought putting it on the inside of my knee! Yes, I did apply it to my arm and there is a 50/50 chance it was the same arm from which the blood test was taken as I alternate which arm I apply it to. My first blood test after being on the testim gel for 12 months was actually 26.47 nmol/l - my Oestrodial was 1006 pmol/l. These were in June 2018 so my levels have come down a fair bit but particularly on Oestrodial - recent test was 263. I make a Testim tube last 8/9 days - it is supposed to be applied to a level that makes it last 7-10 so I thought my usage was ok, but I probably put an amount the size of two peas tbh, so I am going to cut that down to one pea and try it on the inside of my knee.
Thank you so much once again for your help and advice. x
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Montizoomer 7
Can I just ask you if you are still on the estrogen pump for estrogen ?
Have u experienced any hair thinning on the scalp alopecia ?
It's just I'm suffering with hairloss and have been on estrogel for 6/7 months and hair has thinned dramatically but like alopecia which having read on some sites it is a side effect but under frequency not known due to the available data apart from this has been great especially for VA as I have recently swapped to everol patch 50 having been on 2 pumps estrogel but the patch wouldn't stick so swapped to estradot 50 but after 4 days VA worse with burning so have took estrogel again last night but am scared it is causing my hairloss and don't know what to do I'm freaking out
In March estradiol was 195 and testosterone 0.8 now in June this year estradiol dropped to 104 and testosterone 0.6
I'm wondering as having full hysterectomy whether progesterone would balance out estrogen and stop hair loss or is it that estrogen and testosterone to low but can't have testosterone intill my estrogen at 250/300 I'm only 40 so need HRT
Thank you
And I'm sorry u are going through what u are it's so hard for us ladies
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Hi Sammiejane
I am sorry to hear your situation - how hard for you. When I was 49 (6 years ago and pre HRT) I had a problem with thinning hair too and I wondered if it may be connected with entering the peri phase and hormone imbalance etc. I had blood tests at the Doctors but there was nothing really obvious to suggest a cause. Since going on to HRT, and I am using the Oestrogel pump gel, there has been an improvement in my hair.
We are all so different, how we react to different levels of hormones and how we react to the side effects too. I am sure you will get more helpful contributions from this wonderful resource but I am pretty sure once you can get the right balance for you with your hormones, you will see an improvement in your well being all round. Best wishes x
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I will try, the 200 mg vaginally, as you recommended Hurdity. Sorry to be direct, but do I insert one immediately after the other and just hope they don't pop out :) and also if we are able to have sex, presumably I would pop them in afterwards - really sorry to ask. Hopefully the side effects will be minimised this way and the benefits maximised.
Thank you for the advice on the testim gel. I would never have thought putting it on the inside of my knee! Yes, I did apply it to my arm and there is a 50/50 chance it was the same arm from which the blood test was taken as I alternate which arm I apply it to. My first blood test after being on the testim gel for 12 months was actually 26.47 nmol/l - my Oestrodial was 1006 pmol/l. These were in June 2018 so my levels have come down a fair bit but particularly on Oestrodial - recent test was 263. I make a Testim tube last 8/9 days - it is supposed to be applied to a level that makes it last 7-10 so I thought my usage was ok, but I probably put an amount the size of two peas tbh, so I am going to cut that down to one pea and try it on the inside of my knee.
Yes just pop them in one after the other - those pesky little balls are a right pain! Re the sex hmm yes afterwards is better although I do wonder about the effect of all those fluids ::) and progesterone mixed - hopefully enough prog will still get to the uterus and maybe try to do it less when on the prog phase??!!!
Re the T - I make a Testim tube last about 17 days through application of a daily pea-sized blob - and still has had a dramatic effect on response (although being older, frequency of shenanigans is not what it was ::) )
There is a separate long-running thread on Tesosterone in priavte lives so you might want to update us separately on there and one can talk a bit more explicitly without it being read by all and sundry - ie public! https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27959.390.html
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity,
Thanks for the advice - had a real chuckle at your post. I am slightly concerned about upping the Utrogestan because of the impact of the side effects. I have a job where I have to concentrate for long periods, and if I suffer similarly to when I first started taking it, I will struggle to stay awake.
I will update you on the private link regarding T matters. ::)
Thanks Hurdity you have been more than helpful xx :)
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Hi Hurdity, I have just been on the private lives link that you gave and was interested in the relationship (or effect) your SHBG has on the effect of T and I wonder if you wouldn't mind explaining it. I understand what you say about test results not being accurate, but my levels in 2018 were T 26.47, SHBG 128.5 and FAI 20.599. These figures seem to be way above any others that I have seen :o. These were private tests through meno doctor. Recent results through GP only tested T. which came back as 9. I am very happy on the T (as previously mentioned ::)) but I am worried about what these levels, across the board, may suggest ?
Thank you in advance xx
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Its nearly 6 weeks since I started BHRT. I am on estradot patches 25mg and ultogestan 200mg day 15-28 and testogel 1 sachet a week. I feel worse than before I started. I have violent headaches, blurred vision, energy is worse, nausea worse and getting more sweats than I had before. I almost feel like I'm drugged. I've also gained 3kg since I started this. Something I am taking is making me a lot worse. The only thing that's improved is the bone pain. Can anyone tell me can I just stop the hormones or do I need to wean off them? Has anyone else experienced worsening of symptoms with BHRT? Thanks
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Hiya ace.
Can you identify when the headaches are happening?
Have you suffer from migraine in the past?
I find utrogestan gives me headaches and migraine. I also get nauseas on it, but my migraines cause nausea too. it definitely gives me that "drugged up " feeling you describe. From my experience and it would appear other ladies on here. It is progesterone which causes the drugged up/spaced out feeling and not eastrogen.
It is early days on your new regime. Its recommended 3 months to assess how it's working and if anything needs "tweaking". Things can be changed and there are other options if you want to stay on HRT .
But. If you havent suffered these "violent headaches" you describe before in your life. Then i think you should see your doctor.
Best wishes.
Xx
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Hi Hurdity, I have just been on the private lives link that you gave and was interested in the relationship (or effect) your SHBG has on the effect of T and I wonder if you wouldn't mind explaining it. I understand what you say about test results not being accurate, but my levels in 2018 were T 26.47, SHBG 128.5 and FAI 20.599. These figures seem to be way above any others that I have seen :o. These were private tests through meno doctor. Recent results through GP only tested T. which came back as 9. I am very happy on the T (as previously mentioned ::)) but I am worried about what these levels, across the board, may suggest ?
Thank you in advance xx
Hi montyzooma
I've copied your question onto that thread "Testosterone Here We Go" in Private Lives, as it is off topic for this long-running thread - so don't want to confuse people! I have answered it there :)
Hurdity x
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Monty zoomer 7
Hi there thanks for your reply
I had no hair loss prior to starting HRT
I fact the opposite my hair grew mega thick and long and since starting stopping changing HRT I've experienced mega shedding of hair I thought initially it was vagifem vagina estrogen so swapped to Ovestin but still shed hair I then started estrogel 2 pumps and have remained on that but still shedding I thought it was slowing but my hair line has receded all the was around which dermatologist thinks hormones has triggered the hairloss and I have for the past week swapped to a estradot 50 patch to eliminate if it's the estrogel contributing to the hairloss but brushing my hair yesterday lost 15 hairs and today 5 hairs I'm very frustrated and I don't think the patch is as good as the gel for VA symtoms although I was getting quite constipated on the gel which I'm not on the patch I'm wondering if it's an imbalance as my progesterone is 0 with having no ovaries and testosterone 0.6 which I believe is low and estrogen 104 which I'm aware is still low to incorporate testosterone but the ration of estrogen and progesterone would suggest high estrogen relative to progesterone which can cause excessive shedding . Side effects list hairloss online of the gel as frequency unknown due to available data but leaflet dosent mention hairloss . Hairloss on the estradot patch is listed as as a rare side effect. I just don't know what to do any thoughts ?
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Hi all..just an update. I decided to carry in with my alternate eve utrogestan vag....afrer kots of thoughts and akso chats with the great ladybt28 and hurdity. Another month then if no changes yry a sequi. .in meantime i also upped my gel by half a pumo so now 2.5.....been nearly 2 weeks.
Again im still bleeding.....6th bleed in over 3 months...can happen i know and i thi k this one was.my period....lasted 2 days then seemed to stop then..i had sex and woke to another bright bleed! Still there now (the bleed not the sex haha) not heavy but there.....
Been abso drained!!!! I mean ive been gym....but aside.from.that been coning home and drained...and aware. Felt a little flat but manageable (ie...aware so dont let it drown or overwhelm me) also low motivation etc....same o stuff really. I know its been really warm clammy weather ....and ive felt rather warm too..even noticed been sleeping out of the covers which i NEVER do....as im a rather cold feeking person. I did wonder if was the hrt making me warm..the possible estro increase....or just the weather ?!
Breasts full and tender...expected i know and poss estro and can settle. We shall see. Its just the low energy. Not normal. I was walking the dog and thinking...i havent woken up feeling energised in a while....somethings not right. Feel so tired altho trying to overide it !
Just wanted to check in with u all and let u know where im at anyway. I nust say this hrt has weighed me down i feel....and i dont mean tbat negatively as ive tried to stay upbeat and keep open mind and let it work......but at moment still disheartened. Noticed i feel a tad jittery as typing....i mean im drinking a coffee...but....ive been waking feeling the same....but it then passes.
Wanna chat anyone?
X
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Hi all..just an update. I decided to carry in with my alternate eve utrogestan vag....afrer kots of thoughts and akso chats with the great ladybt28 and hurdity. Another month then if no changes yry a sequi. .in meantime i also upped my gel by half a pumo so now 2.5.....been nearly 2 weeks.
Again im still bleeding.....6th bleed in over 3 months...can happen i know and i thi k this one was.my period....lasted 2 days then seemed to stop then..i had sex and woke to another bright bleed! Still there now (the bleed not the sex haha) not heavy but there.....
Been abso drained!!!! I mean ive been gym....but aside.from.that been coning home and drained...and aware. Felt a little flat but manageable (ie...aware so dont let it drown or overwhelm me) also low motivation etc....same o stuff really. I know its been really warm clammy weather ....and ive felt rather warm too..even noticed been sleeping out of the covers which i NEVER do....as im a rather cold feeking person. I did wonder if was the hrt making me warm..the possible estro increase....or just the weather ?!
Breasts full and tender...expected i know and poss estro and can settle. We shall see. Its just the low energy. Not normal. I was walking the dog and thinking...i havent woken up feeling energised in a while....somethings not right. Feel so tired altho trying to overide it !
Just wanted to check in with u all and let u know where im at anyway. I nust say this hrt has weighed me down i feel....and i dont mean tbat negatively as ive tried to stay upbeat and keep open mind and let it work......but at moment still disheartened. Noticed i feel a tad jittery as typing....i mean im drinking a coffee...but....ive been waking feeling the same....but it then passes.
Wanna chat anyone?
X
Hi, I feel for you. :) Are you Peri, ? I tried upping my Estrogel last week and felt totally wired so gone back to 1.5 pumps. You could try cutting back on caffeine see if that helps Margaret.
I went doctors yesterday to have a Mirena fitted and she couldn't do it so I now have to go gynocology to get it done. :( Back on Utrogestan and it makes me feel like poo. :-\
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Hi birdy and traceye
Birdy - hope youre feeling brighter? I did mean to ask.
Yes - peri. Im 48 tmw! Birthday girl. Tired birthday girl haha. Yes iknow the bleeds are due to the regime....hurdity and ladybt28 beeen talking to me abt it....and im.gonna try a cycle but this month i had a few things on....plus go away on holiday 23rd was was a bit wary to do this month as worried abt the lows and stuff i may not expect or may throw me...and holiday..etc. so just getting to the end of aug then from 1st sept im.gonna try a cycle. Was just reporting in.
Tracey - i only have one coffee a day...and of a morn so cant even blame the coffee..
Debating to lower my gel back to 2 pumps....could it poss be too high girls?
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If you're still getting hot sweats Margaret then probably not, maybe your body is just getting use to the higher dose... :)
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Hi T..im.not sure you could call them sweats......plus ive never had a flush or hot sweat before....dunno..bit confused by it all and tbh not enjoying it. Just feel like weighed down...rubbing gel in ...pushing utro up...and no better ha! I know you all know! And i have been compassionate...you know kind to myself whilst journeying it...but now like sorry started. This weird tiredness is awful ! I mean im tryibg to stay upbeat and just ignore and get on but hate hate waking and feeling need to go back to bed! Grrrr.
How are u x
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I'm ok, a bit sore from being poked n prodded yesterday. No idea how long an appointment will take to come through, so back on Utrogestan 7 day cycle again. Can I ask what made you start this HRT journey?
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Ahh yes u will be sore! God..what a palaver. :'( is cycle no good.for you? Why? Sorry if u already answered this.
Me....ok.....i think ive had a hormonal imbalance a long time. My son is nearly 14 and after his birth for yrs my H's didnt re balance. I actually wrote a blog called woman on the verge of the peri meni!! This was before i knew abt all this! Very in tune with my body....had lots pmt stuff symptoms like sore gums....sore boobs...a quiet inner anxiety...worry etc..sore hip, low motivston....all would dip and rise with my spot on 28 day cycle..bleeding of which disnt bothet me much..just came.and went...skight headache but would go. Not been on any birth contrils since so you can say my body was as natural as they come....i started a path of self care and research and started yoga (now a teacher) and self helped as much as could...and have been ever since
..fast forward last 18mths or so.....weird fatigue (and im.very fit n active) low mood and no motivation (altho youd nevet know) tender.coccyx bone, unpredictable sore left breast..and 2 occadions of worry which turned oit to just be surges in hormones.....period started to dwindle...ie..sometimes 2 wrekly.
.sometimes 5...heavier than normal.some months...some just a day or 2. More so prev few months before started hrt. I jsut didjt feel myself...inner light was low and i was aware and tbh a little scared as i didnt feel myself. Just flat as a pancake and no go nor any mojo. My already fine hair began shedding a lot....
I had bloods..was low in zinc...had to have 2 rounds of supps and last blood showed had gone up. I jist felt poo...but liie i said...couldnt put finger on it....and decided it was deffo changes. My doc has been fab...supported me...i said id like to try hrt as knew couldnt carry on feeling how i did.....so here i am!!
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Well tbh Utrogestan just doesn't agree with me so back on my 7 day cycle yet again. Don't relish starting a cycle again because I get terrible PMT. I'm great during the Estriogel part of the cycle. :) I had all the menopause symptons, lethargy, hot flushes, sleepless nights and VA. I did start to have right hip pain too but since being on the HRT that seems to have subsided. My mum sufferred from Osteoporosis so HRT seemed the sensible solution for me. Just didn't realise it would take so long to get it right.
It so fab to have a supported doctors, my usual doctor is on maternity leave and she's great. :) Unfortunately at the moment I have to see who's available (not so great). :( Just wish I could get my mojo back!
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Ahh ive never experienced the estrogel part on its own tracey.....and..talking of mojo..ohhhhh mines been gone a while. I really hoped hrt would be THE missing link.
Do you think cos im.bleeding i feel poo/drained/off also?
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Morning ladies
Am on day 10 of my first round of Utrogestan 100mg for twelve days ( had an ablation so Gynae specialist says 100mg would be sufficient for this amount of time). Started off ok initially but got to day 5 and have been having awful bloating and wind which is really quite painful. I am taking it vaginally at bedtime as I hoped this would negate any possible side effects.
I have done a search and it does seem this can be a side effect but just wondered if anyone else has it and if it will settle after a while? Otherwise I am feeling so much better after just six weeks on HRT ( 2 pumps Estrogel alongside the twelve day utrogestan).
Thanks in advance
W xx
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Hello all, I'm new to post but have read the forum for ages, and find it very helpful.
Been on HRT sequi, various brands via 50 patch, for almost 2 years. Am 48. All the symptoms before, flushes, serious joint aches (neck and back), vertigo, aura migraines, etc etc.
Vertigo completely gone whilst on HRT, joint aches and flushes improved. Migraines hit and miss.
My withdrawel bleed is random, bit more rare, and sometimes have breakthrough bleed which I think is my natural cycle breaking through.
Swapped to Utrogestan with Evorel 50 patches last month as think I'm prog intolerant. Orally was a nightmare, 200 for 14 days first month. Knocked me for 6, (migraines and extreme fatigue). No withdrawel bleed.
Am now trialling 100 vaginally (on day 6) which is much better but am still getting migraines, but not as many.
Question is, should I consider private consultation (Prof Studd) to get my HRT regime sorted? Realise I am slightly self medicating and understand the risk to womb lining if I don't get enough prog...
My life is on hold by how debilitating this is so any amount of money must be worth it if I can return to some kind of normal.
Any advice welcomed :-X
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Hi nitajbee...ohhhh its so.overwhelming isnt it. Reas my past posts for my background.info.
I do hope u find a balance.too....maybe see.a.good.gp who knows aboit the.meno.and hrt before u fork out to see prof studd? Saying that....my gp is amazing but im not sure shes.fully fully aware of the ins and outs...so i too am.considering gokng to see louise newson or someone nearby! Feel i too need guidance as bleeding on alterbate day utro..3 months now been on it..and 2 pimps esteo.which are now 2 and a half. Last few days been absolutely drained.....fed up.x
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Thanks for your reply! Yes, it is utter hell. Have always struggled with PMT and aura migraines but this peri lark is a absolute joke!
I did have a good GP who put me on HRT but he has left and new one is pretty poor. Also 10min appointments, if and when you can the them, are useless.
I am due back for review of Utrogestan next month but dare not tell her I am using vaginally, so not sure they can help.
It is a lot of money for private though, and I am halfway there with the top HRT, seems maybe gel and or totesterone plus regime advice is the answer... but whether it is worth over a grand...?
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Hello all, I'm new to post but have read the forum for ages, and find it very helpful.
Been on HRT sequi, various brands via 50 patch, for almost 2 years. Am 48. All the symptoms before, flushes, serious joint aches (neck and back), vertigo, aura migraines, etc etc.
Vertigo completely gone whilst on HRT, joint aches and flushes improved. Migraines hit and miss.
My withdrawel bleed is random, bit more rare, and sometimes have breakthrough bleed which I think is my natural cycle breaking through.
Swapped to Utrogestan with Evorel 50 patches last month as think I'm prog intolerant. Orally was a nightmare, 200 for 14 days first month. Knocked me for 6, (migraines and extreme fatigue). No withdrawel bleed.
Am now trialling 100 vaginally (on day 6) which is much better but am still getting migraines, but not as many.
Question is, should I consider private consultation (Prof Studd) to get my HRT regime sorted? Realise I am slightly self medicating and understand the risk to womb lining if I don't get enough prog...
My life is on hold by how debilitating this is so any amount of money must be worth it if I can return to some kind of normal.
Any advice welcomed :-X
Sorry to hear you are still struggling Nitajbee and :welcomemm:. And - my perosnal opinion of course - you really do not need to pay money to see any private specialist and especially not a costly one like Prof Studd, and especially as you are already able to get hold of the HRT he recommends. Please don't waste your money. You could well be disappointed.
The first thing for us to know is what your cycle was doing before you started HRT - had you started missing periods at all and having an irregular (natural) cycle? Thjis will give us an idea of where you are in menopause.
How much, when and whether you bleed will depend partly where you are in menopause, the HRT you are taking (dose and type) and how well you absorb this. Some women do not get a bleed on cyclical HRT ( the figure given on this website is 15 % if I recall).
When I first started HRT I was taking Evorel sequi and then Oestrogen 50 mcg patches with Cyclogest progesterone pessaries (off licence). After about 5 years on a 28 day cycle my bleeds stopped - meaning the womb lining was not building up on the oestrogen and while taking the progesterone, it was not building up further. Because of this I was able to extend my cycle ( ie the number of weeks on oestrogen only). I was post-menopausal by the time this happened.
Research shows that used vaginally progesterone is more effective at protecting the womb lining and limited research suggests that half the oral dose could be used vaginally ie 100 mg vaginally instead of 200 mg orally. Obviously this is off licence so you would need to monitor your bleeds and your womb lining. Do inform your doctor - she needs educating! On higher oestrogen doses and with heavy bleeding a higher dose even of vaginal progesterone might be needed. Until recently I have been using 200 mg vaginally on a longer cycle but have recently reduced my cycle length and the utro dose to 100 mg. The migraines are tough - I sometimes get one while on the utro phase, and sometimes on withdrawal ( like this time - have just recovered from one) - mine last 3 - 4 days when I get them.
Actually the licensed duration is 12 days per 28 dya cycle, not 14 so at least give 16 days on the oestrogen only. Also if you are very late peri-menopause or post-meno some meno docs suggest stretching the cycle to calendar months so you start the 12 days Utro on a fixed date each month - again giving you a bit longer.
I have a theory - but really only that - that if I plump up the vag tissues before and during the utro phase - less will be absorbed systemically than otherwise, so minimising the side effects. So - I shove up Vagifem alternatie days in the week leading up to the utro. Are you on local oestrogen as well?
This cycle it seemed to work because I felt fine on the prog phase (just a bit more tired than usual), but weirdly as above, terrible on withdrawal implying that it had been absorbed systemically!).
If your flushes have not disappeared then maybe you need a slightly higher dose oestrogen patch - this should be the minimum benefit to expect ie elimination of flushes and sweats.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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That's really interesting Hurdity, I had no idea that some people don't get a bleed on cyclical progesterone. I assume you would need to have this checked to make sure all is well.
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Thank you so much for your reply Hurdity. And it makes sense re private being a waste of money, because I have been lucky to secure Utrogen from my GP.
In answer to your questions - my pescription now is 50 evorel patch 28 days, 200 utro orally 12-14 days. Tried this the first month (last month) utro was absolute hell, hence trying vaginally 100 for a planned 10 days (day 6 now).
Periods used to be on a 24 day cycle, pretty regular. About 4 years ago got peri symptoms which at first GP didn't recognise, so had physio for joint aches and an MRI for vertigo! Periods had slowed right down to every few months. Longest without was 8 months before HRT started, so still peri. Eventally new doc put me on HRT 50 sequi patches (due to migraines) 2 years ago. I struggled with the two week prog/combined patches so asked if I could try Utrogestan instead.
On previous HRT regime I had rare withdrawel bleeds (GP said this was fine) and sometimes breakthrough which as mentioned, I think were due to natural cycle.
I do feel that my natural cycle of 24 days gets confused with the 28 day HRT cycle, not sure it manages to override my own hormones?
Migraines (always aura) tend to be around natural cycle period time so can fall on prog or eostrogen patches, depending on the month.
Interestingly I had 5 month relief for migraines but unfortunately they started again a few months ago.
Guess what I now need is to sort my Utrogestan regime...
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Sorry Hurdity, meant to say flushes have pretty much gone, quite rare but do happen sometimes...plus achy joints still randomly.
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Hi all....i woke at 5am this morn and felt a bit jittery. As some if you may remember im on 100mg alternate day utro and 2.5 pumps estrogel. Im looking to try a sequi regine from 1st sept as been bleeding an awful lot - 6 in 14 weeks!! Started bleeding last month and only last night did it subside. Im feeling just ok....nowt special haha..just feeling a bit flat and fed up ..no mojo etc..but ok...plodding along i guess ....and which i feel I shouldnt be...not settle for!
I increased my gel 2 weeks ago to an extra half pump....as was flat and mood low BUT..not sure its made much difference....i dont know!! My boobs though feel heavy and very full....tender! Could this be too much gel....the feeling warm and jittery (never had before started hrt!!) Should i take my gel back down to 2 pumps see if helps?
Feel like the last 3 months ..well 14 weeks have been focused on this hrt!!
Anyone there to help or chat?
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Hi sore boobs is a sign of too much oestrogen but you won't be helping your body by swapping and changing doses of the gel. You need to stick at one dose for 4-6 weeks before changing. X
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Hi dotty. Oh no. Hate all this. Dont feel myself!! My boobs have a tendency to get same when due on etc....and had been happebing quite a bit before i stwrted hrt so think poss just my new normal.....if that makes sense...but jist a few weeks before hrt i did a training programme and lost a bit of weight and it came from boobs (im.very slim anyway) but since hrt theyve grown a bit again haha.
Feel so lost. I was waiting until 1st sept to start a cycle month (and when i think my natural period will start)..so was going to stop the utro from.day 1 then and restsrt day 15.
Is it worth me just stopping utro now and starting on a cycle with it from 15th sept (and just be on gel for now...and until then) or would you say stick to plan and continue regime im.on - alternate utro) and wait until 1st sept when i hopef have a period (altho god knows if have more bleeds before then!!! Never bled as much )
If a cycle is no good im.coming off hrt.....
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I've just been thinking the same as Birdy that it's the every other day that's not helping. Have you tried 100mg every day to see if that helps? X
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Hello birdy and dotty and thank you...
Birdy - how are you. Feeling any better?
Im now beginning to understand.....identify.....tune in...that poss the alterbate not doing the job for me..not suitable and not enough prog. Feel.so weird today I do and know i have to act....ny dilemma is...what do i do now. Im.a bit scared and worried ive messed up the natural rhythms of my body.since.starting hrt..its consuned me.
Dotty....not tried 100mg every day no.....i didnt want to take orally....as i react to any tabs.....hence me doing alternate vaginally.
Ladies any idea what i can do now....as i cant go on lke this.im.also regretting upping my gel from.2 to 2 half as worried made it all worse. X
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Jmargaret.... did you see a menopause specialist? X
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Hi dotty..no..i git hrt from my lovely helpful supportive gp...BUT..not after having to tell her that NO i didnt want anti depr...and yes...utro and utrogestan WERE available on nhs (she have me elleste duo which i later declined after nuch research as im.not good with pills) anyway...through this MM forum and dr louisa newsons.info i knew i wanted gel and utrogestan...finally got them....and on my prescript was to take 100mg utro from days
1 -25.....because i dont like tabs i looked into using vaginally and a top meni doc said to do alternate days (i wasnt under her but she did kindly advise me through her pages...) it was only later i learnt that conti is normally for post meno.....so i then asked her if this was ok me being peri and she said yes! Not to worry...and keep going...give it time (peri women CAN have conti or alternate days too)
Anyway....i continued as was a few weeks into...didnt feel too bad...not much diff neither but bled a lot bit was also told can happen so i didnt worry. But now im.over 3 months nearly 4...and not feelin right. Cant get appt wth my gp soon then im.away next friday whrn shes back....but also not sure she will this time be able to help fully....ie....still getting up to date herself! I was going to look to see if a meno doc local asap for some support as cant get to louisa newson right now. Just dont know what to do. I actually feel a litttle scared today.....sort of detached and spaced out..hard to explain. Been awake since 5am. I mean im ok...been to work etc...but just not feeling myself and want to take action...but dont know how? X
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Thanks so much birdy. Im also gutted you feel awful still. 😣
Inwas.worried i was.overreacting but i.know im not! This is real. Ive been patient and compassionate since i started and know somethings amiss..dont know my a*** from my elbow!!! Rubbing gel....pushing up tablets....🙈
Ok so my next option is to take every eve...vag still....wont this be too much though? As i thought the reason for alternate days was because you get more directly to where needed so.dont need 100mg daily?.pls correct me.
And what do you mean birdy...about dr nick would probs have it that i override ny own cycle..what does this mean? Sorry if i appear clueless x
So my options at moment..is to take 100.g every eve.....for time being anyway and leave my gel at 2.5punps. (I was worried i shuldbt have increased gel...but was so tored n moody BUT now thinking maybe this is just because of the alternate yo
yo-ing of utrogestan and maybe 2 pumps was ok after all?!?! How do i know. And then i will know how im.getting on with daily utro if any better etc... OR....can i just start a sequi from now....leave the utro out and from.1st sept start a new cycle of 15.days gel only then add the utro?
Ladies..whats would you do?
Do you also think the low progesterone was making me feel extrememly drained too?
I apol.for all the questions...xx
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Jmargaret.... what was the date of your last period before you started hrt? X
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Hi dotty.....okay......it was im sure yes Monday 6th May...okay. the one before that was just 2 weeks before ob easter mon 22nd april ....but id been doing an intensive training programme so wondered if this just brought on my period early. Prior to this was aboit 4 weeks before.Just ooking at my calender......and will note...
*22nd april - on
*6th may (2wks) - on
*Fri 22nd april - started HRT
*Wed 29th May - heavy bleed but think
proper period as would have been
due round then
*Sun 2nd June bleed stopped
*Fri 20th June - started bleeding
Was very heavy 22nd!
*27th June bleed eased
*Mon 1st July bleed - thinl proper
period kicked early on as all the feels and felt AWFUL
*sat 6th July bleed seemed to have
stopped BUT still spotting and visible on wiping after wee!! Right up to 15th July!
*30th July - spotting/show
*31st - proper bleed!! Think this was my normal/real.period!
Bleed carried on right up until just now - not heavy just spotting..
So....as you can see.....lots of bleeds....is it no wonder i feel as i do?!
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Hi well I think you need to be on a sequential hrt as you are not advised to start on continuous until you have been period free for 12 months. I think a lot of ladies on here will agree with me.
I'm not an expert on sequential hrt, but I think you can stop utrogestan now and count today as day 1 and then take the utrogestan 200mg from days 15 - 26. Hopefully after a few months your body should get into synch.
Look back at previous posts as I think Hurdity has explained the sequential regime to you and she is far better at explaining than I am. X
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I seemed to have settled onto my 7 days Utrogestan and 1.5 pumps of Estrogel. Even the Utrogestan this cycle doesn't seem too bad although I'm still a little weary. My only concern will be the possibilty of womb lining build up. I'm going have a scan shorty so we'll see. I may well knock the Mirena coil on the head and stick to this regime.
Still hoping Femseven will return, wishful thinking. ::)
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Hello TraceyE , which fem7 did you take ? Conti or Sequi? I took sequi and now I take fem7 oestrogen patches only for 2 weeks and add utrogest (200mg) for two weeks. But was happier with the patches. What is your experience?
Lady lollipop
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Hi, I took the conti. Tbh this was the only HRT that suited me. I did have trouble getting the patches to stick though so I can understan the issue.
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Thanks dotty...and yes in aware hurdity has explained the sequi....i am.aware.....its just i was hopibg to get as far as the end of aug so can coubt 1st sept as a new.cycle..and when i think my.own period would have kicked in. I was just hoping to hold on until then as i am.you see.
Hopefully hurdity may come along soon. Im due an utro this eve too 😣
Tracey E - so.very glad yoire feeling a little better! I hope i do sometime. Were tou on conti before the sequi switch? X
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Thanks dotty...and yes in aware hurdity has explained the sequi....i am.aware.....its just i was hopibg to get as far as the end of aug so can coubt 1st sept as a new.cycle..and when i think my.own period would have kicked in. I was just hoping to hold on until then as i am.you see.
Hopefully hurdity may come along soon. Im due an utro this eve too 😣
Tracey E - so.very glad yoire feeling a little better! I hope i do sometime. Were tou on conti before the sequi switch? X
Yes Femseven Conti prior to Bioidentical. After that 25 days Utrogestan reduced to 7 days due to side effects. X
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Okay. Hopefully Tracey this will be youre sweet spot. As for me....im supposed to be taking an utro this eve but at a loss. Was hopjng hurdity or ladybt28 would be on to tell me if i can just stop utro from now....tonight..and add it back in 15.days (or if im best to wait until 1st sept and hope to bleed again then start)
Sorry started this. Also sorry i upped my gel as more worry to contend with ..should have left it at 2 pumps...be easier then to just withdraw from the whole hrt trip! X
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New here - have been struggling with sudden increase in peri symptoms starting at the time of my last period (beg of July). Was prescribed patches (FemSeven, one pharmacy near me still had them) but I had a horrible allergic reaction to the adhesive, so had to stop them, just as I felt they were starting to work. After doing lots of reading round, just got back from GP and asked for estrogel and utrogestan, starting both today.
Really hoping these will work, I'm a mess at the mo, anxiety through the roof, not really sleeping, bad nausea, aches and pains. I get anxiety anyway and this has just tripled it :'(
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Hello kaye....welcome to this group that has been a godsend. Im a newbie to hrt too and still navigating. Good luck with youre new regime...keep checking in to let us know hiw its going and for any support.
What is your regime with the gel and utro...how many pumps and are you on a sequi with the utro...ie...12 days and 100mg or 200mg etc?
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Thanks Margaret - I'm on 2 pumps of the gel to start with and 12 days utro, so sequi, 200mg. I'm slightly scared but trying to stay positive and hope this will work.
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Bless you. I know the feeling....im similar to you ...but on alternate day utro vaginally ..but need to swop to sequi asap. Loads of support here so keep checking in.xx
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I actually have a quick question - DH has tried 2 pharmacies and has ended up having to order everything in. The gel will be available later today and the the utro tomorrow. Will it be OK to start the gel this afternoon, rather than waiting until tomorrow morning? I really want to get this started asap.
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Yes im sure it will ! X
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Thanks Margaret! Bit bummed about the utro - doc said I could start with it today, after having done 1.5 weeks with the estrogen part of the patches before breaking out in the rash - I would have gone onto the phase 2 patches today. Oh well, guess tomorrow will have to do...
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Hello! my first post. Sorry to jump in on this, but I have a question :) I have to have combination hrt and prefer the patches, but the only one available is not high enough dose and I'm still suffering menopause symptoms. I've just asked my nurse if I can carry on using the patches (which deliver oestrogen and progesterone) and "top up" with oestrogen gel. Does anyone else do this, and do the pumps deliver different doses? Thanks for any advice!
Em :)
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Forgive me cutting and pasting, just posted this in newbies, but figuring out this forum and spotted this thread too. I've just seen Prof John Studd and am starting his regime, but I'm a bit of a complicated case I fear. Sorry this is chapter and verse!
Hi All
Pleased to be here. I recently had a polypectomy and D&C at ChelWest after nearly a year of banging on the door of the NHS to get my symptoms taken seriously. Two years of very heavy periods, and horribly jittery symptoms at mid cycle and just before my period. Finally got bumped up the list when I had two irregular periods (long cycles, been 28 days on the nose all my life) and then a period that wouldn't stop, followed by one that wouldn't start. On the long bleed, I took 10 days of 100mg utrogestan in the end, which stopped the bleed, but my period didn't start, which Chelwest gynae said indicated I didn't have enough of my own E. He also said he felt I was anovulatory - I'm using ovulation sticks - I'd say he's right. His thought was I'd need three pumps of estrogel.
Also need to add that I had a total thyroidectomy for Graves, Hashis, graves opthamology, and cancer in 2011 after TEN YEARS of misdiagnosis and then two years of mis treatment. German Endo professor saved my life. Took me a loooong time to get stable, and in the end I went DIY (with my endos blessing) and have been pretty stable on Natural Dessicated Thyroid hormones (the BHRT of thyroid) since about 2013. My thyroid results are good. Had a bit of a wobble in April and had to switch brands due to a reformulation issue, but other than that, all OK. I also have anaemia, and heavy periods been a bloomin' nightmare, as I have to shovel in so much iron, otherwise I get jittery symptoms there too. So I manage, but being thyroidless means I'll never be the same, 'you just take a pill and you're fine' being a woman hating lie imho!
Long story short, the NHS gave me the hard sell on Mirena (they must have asked me fifty times, including when wheeling me into theatre, despite me saying no, no, no, nope, no way! repeatedly - so much for no means no, the NHS seems to think it means maybe!) as I had a very hard time on the combined pill, and the prog only pill, and had a hideous time with prog cream a while ago (on some quack theory of a naturopathic doctor) and as I told my NHS gynae, after the thyroid hell, the NHS was never ever manipulating my hormones ever again. He said 'fair enough' and agreed with my plan to see Prof Studd (who used to be his boss).
Saw the Prof, who said he felt my jitters were 'formication'. My bone scan was terrible, I'm 46 but have the bones of a 70 year old woman, osteopenia in both hips and my lumbar spine. Yikes! No libido, tired, angry, weepy, foggy, up and down like a fiddler's elbow. So he prescribed (like he does for everyone I think) 3 pumps of estrogel, 1 x pump tostran every 3 days, and utrogestan 100mg days 1 - 10 starting Oct 'to give you a breather'.
So far so good, except three pumps gave me vertigo, I was literally listing like a drunken sailor, and the tostran gave me a banging heart. He called me back, said start on one pump, and build up weekly. Meanwhile I've decanted some tostran into a little squeezy nozzle bottle and now taking a tiny pea dab every day, that seems to have sorted out the heart racing. His nurse did tell me as someone who is 'sensitive' I might do better on a lower dose daily amount, seems she was right.
Sorry so long. So, I'm exhausted, is this normal? I'm also a bit shaky, sort of trembling in my arms and legs. I went up to two pumps last night as directed and did feel a weird calm as I woke up, before the crushing fatigue started up again.
Also, when my blood results came back, my estrogen was 1,575! I had the jittery symptoms on the day he drew the blood, so I'm thinking it's not 'formication' (low E symptom) but an excess estrogen / histmine response (I get a rash, I need to take anti histamines, I feel vibraty, like I've got adrenaline rushes, I shake inside and out, my heart races)? https://www.larabriden.com/the-curious-link-between-estrogen-and-histamine-intolerance/ From chatting on mumsnet, some peri women do seem to suffer more on the estrogen spurts than the crashes? I'm defo getting lows as well, but it seems to be the highs that are hard to deal with. I also had the jitters on the day ChelWest tested my E, and it was 1,100 then as well, which does seem to confirm my hunch?
So sorry for chapter and verse, but does it get better? what's the rationale for putting in more E when you are getting days of high E, does it override your own cycle (happy days if it does, I feel tyrannised by my own body)? Does the fatigue lift?
Also my hunch is I'm going to need sequential from the get go, as much as I dislike the side effects of utrogestan (beyond 7 days I get really down, pile on weight, feel foggy) as the P does seem to stop the jitters on these high E days. It does make sense in terms of my cycle, at the point where P should kick in is when they start.
If you're still here after all that (thank you!) is there anyone else getting these E spurts in Peri? I am for sure getting low E days as well, and I'm seeing really changes in my skin, which would suggest that low E is a problem too, but it's these foul buzzy days that are doing me in!
Thanks
Reb
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hiya ladies. I need some help right now, I feel scared and alone, apologies for long post but background info required.
Post menopause around 5yrs and decided to try hrt a couple of years ago and after consulting with a private meno specialist she started me evorel conti patch ago. Only difference I felt was that any flushes I had disappeared but I wanted to try it because of severe anxiety I have and was hoping it would help. Felt no difference and didn't contact my meno specialist again cus I was dealing with the other health issues I have ie. Hashimoto's, thyroid blah blah and didn't want to change too much at once as I would not have known what was working and what wasn't.
Anyway contacted her back in March with some old test results that I had done around 6 months after starting the patch. She said I wasn't absorbing and moved me on to the gel (2 pumps) and Utrogestan 100mg (vaginally). Had a few good days here and there where anxiety wasn't that bad but can't say I noticed any real difference in anything to be honest.
Tested after 3 months later and still estrogen levels too low, she wanted me on minimum 300 or ideally 450-650, so she upped me to 3 pumps a day from beginning of June.
Couple of weeks after increasing I noticed some weight gain (which I don't mind was I was underweight anyway), enlarged and tender boobs, a little bloating and some water retention in my legs and a little bit of cramping.
I, unfortunately missed the odd progesterone which I think prompted some spotting the last week in July and which I was told is normal. I hadn't felt too bad with the anxiety and then we had that really hot day of 100 degrees and since then I have felt so crap, ie. depression and worsened anxiety, brain fog, lightheaded, fatigued. I retested early August and estrogen now 313 so she says to maintain that and test again in 2-3 months.
I am quite pissed off with her to be honest because she never made any attempt to explain how it all worked initially and what I might expect, so being the anxious person I am I would frequently email her with my worries. But to be honest I know why she didn't say too much because she could tell from regular emails to her that I overthink which obviously heightens my anxiety, but at the end of the day I know my own body.
Yesterday, despite using the Utrogestan properly again for the last couple of weeks I have started to bleed again, this time it's not a pale pink showing but morelike a very light period, very red with very small clots in; enough to wear a small panty liner. I am also getting some cramping and feel generally miserable like I used to when I had my period.
I have only been on my "therapeutic dose" (as she calls it) for 2 months but I sit here day in and day out feeling miserable, anxiety is high, no motivation to do anything, so little to no exercise and the depression is back, which I haven't had in over 2yrs. I also live alone and spend most of my days alone, which I know doesn't help my mental health because I know I overthink. I also have issues with agoraphobia and when my anxiety is bad I feel unable to do much at all except for staying in and just sit on the computer most days. Even my yoga has suffered through lack of motivation or feeling fatigued or dizzy. I know I am my own worst enemy in that respect but I just don't feel right and I cannot decide whether the hrt is making me worse.
I have spoken with my specialist about this but she just keeps coming back with "it's your overthinking that is making you feel worse" and doesn't seem to think that the hrt is affecting me in a negative way.
I currently do NOT know what to think, I am scared and alone. All I know is that I am feeling worse unless my overthinking is making me feel that way. I have had anxiety issues since I was a young child and I am 57 now but they were finally managed with an anti-depressant I started 15yrs ago but 3yrs ago stopped working, but I refuse to up it as it's the worst one on the planet to come off so I pop the odd Diazepam to help me through.
Just contacted my meno specialist and she has just replied and I am even more worried now at the mention of an ultrasound
"Utrogestan is not a very strong progestogen.
We do sometimes find that patients bleed with it.
I would advise that as this is the second time you have experienced bleeding that you move from the vaginal to oral route.
I appreciate this may increase side effects, but hopefully now you are acclimatised to it , they should be minimal.
If you cannot tolerate the oral route, the other option is to increase the dose vaginally, but this is may also increase side effects.
It is important to get you to be bleed free, as if bleeding continues we will recommend investigation with an ultrasound.
If you remain intolerant of utrogestan, we can trial an alternative, but I am not hopeful that you would tolerate any of the other options"
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Just a quick update on my trial of vaginal utro, 7 days of 100 with 50 evorel eostrogen patches.
I managed the 7 days fairly well, no awful side effects that I got with 200 oral. Bit tired but ok - only issue was irritation down below :'(
Pleased to report no major withdrawl symptoms after stopping and 4 days later I have a bleed, the first one in a while, which is great news.
Will continue this regime for the next month and see how I get on! :D
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Jefner
Can't help on the HRT as I'm in the same boat, but is your thyroid optimal? What do you take for that? Are all your ducks in a row on iron, B12, vits and mins, taking enough electrolytes etc, as I have galloping thyroid issues (I had Hashis and graves!) and had to have a TT and it's been a right faff getting that all sorted out. Wonky thyroid can make us feel dreadful, and anxious and down. Sure you know all this, but are you getting enough T3? Needs to be in the top quartile of the range. Switching to natural dessicated thyroid changed my life, I'm on the same dose, my blood results are the same, but I'm such a different person.
Hope you find some answers.
Feeling dizzy, I've found, in just the few short days I've been on it that taking my estrogel at night has solved that problem.
PS in the ten years I was fighting to get anyone to give a crap about my thyroid, I've learned that if you don't like your specialist, find another, they're not God. It's your body as you rightly say, find someone who listens. I'm incredibly sensitive to hormone shifts, and I'm a bright woman, I think a lot, 'over thinking' isn't a crime, I'm one of those people who likes to understand what is going on.
All the best from another Newbie
Reb
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HI Reb, I keep a close eye on my thyroid levels and only checked on them a couple of weeks ago after being on my hrt for 3 months. My tsh has gone up a bit from 0.27 to 2.47 which kinda means I am undermedicating again but if I increase my T4 my levels are high in the range anyway and I may go over range on that. As regards my T3, my levels are low in range and always have been although I take 10mcg T3 every day and am trying to increase to 15mcg to see if that makes a difference, although I have RT3 issues as well from previous testing. I wondered about NDT as an option but I know no-one who has the experience to monitor it. As you in the UK? I have tried so many people for help until I am blue in the face and no-one really cares, I am on my own
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Hiya
I'm on my own too, I have a mexican standoff with my endo (big London teaching hospital), she doesn't mention it if I don't, she does my bloods and that's it, that's after she gave me the 'speech' about levothyroxine and I said 'the only circumstances under which I would put that SHIT in my body ever again is if someone held a gun to my head and even then my preference is they pull the trigger' - she didn't argue after that. Low T3 could be causing your issues, including your low E. I take 150 T4 and about 40 ish T3 if that helps you, I take 4.5 grains NDT, but I'm surgically hypo. I've been trying to work out the complex relationship with E and TBG (thyroid binding globulin) which can increase with E supplementation (not with Gel as far as I can work out) so many meno women who take HRT need a thyroid dose tweak. High T4 with low T3 points to a conversion issue, RT3 is a bit of a red herring imho in that it points to something else, usually IRON. I need my ferritin over 100 to feel anything approaching well (you can't tolerate T3 without iron), and also keep any eye on co factors, like selenium.
STTM guidance on how to take NDT is helpful, although you could prob start on a bit more as you're used to T3, but 'getting your ducks in a row' is the key thing. Defo space your T3 out, so if you go up to 15, then 3 x 5, on waking, lunchtime, tea time, you might need a crumb at bedtime also.
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Hi can I join you ladies,I started on Oestrogel and utrogestan yesterday so I'm in the very early stages with this
I am 56 and havent had a period for over a year so I'm considered post menopausal, I am using two pumps a day which I'm doing in the evening and I'm taking the utrogestan orally one a day continuously as advised its ok to do this by menopause specialist
How long did it take to notice any difference,I'm obviously not expecting results yet because I've only taken one dose,also has anyone had any side effects or have you felt ok on this regime
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Hi Nannyneet, I've just started with Oestrogel and utrogestan yesterday too, although I'm waiting on the pharmacy to get the utro, so I've just started with the gel yesterday. So far I've had 2 lots of gel (x 2 pumps each time) and I definitely slept better last night and haven't had the nausea/morning sickness that I was getting before starting the estrogen, so I think that's helping. I've got other stuff going on, so still feel crap, but am cautiously optimistic that at the least the gel part is improving certain things.
I was on patches for a week and a half before that and had an allergic reaction so had to stop but I noticed an improvement in sleep/nausea after a few days with those too, which worsened when I had to stop taking them. Can't say anything about the utro yet, but I'm sure others can chime in. I'm peri, so I'm only taking the utro for 12 days of my cycle rather than continuously.
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Kaye - are.you going to be taking 100mg or 200mg of utro when yoi start?
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200, I think. ETA - yep, just checked the pack, 2 x100mg.
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Hi Nannyneet, I've just started with Oestrogel and utrogestan yesterday too, although I'm waiting on the pharmacy to get the utro, so I've just started with the gel yesterday. So far I've had 2 lots of gel (x 2 pumps each time) and I definitely slept better last night and haven't had the nausea/morning sickness that I was getting before starting the estrogen, so I think that's helping. I've got other stuff going on, so still feel crap, but am cautiously optimistic that at the least the gel part is improving certain things.
I was on patches for a week and a half before that and had an allergic reaction so had to stop but I noticed an improvement in sleep/nausea after a few days with those too, which worsened when I had to stop taking them. Can't say anything about the utro yet, but I'm sure others can chime in. I'm peri, so I'm only taking the utro for 12 days of my cycle rather than continuously.
Hi,I'm post meno so I'm taking the utro continuously which I was relieved about because I would never remember to take it otherwise 😀 I didn't go for the patches because I have very sensitive skin and was worried I'd have an allergic reaction,we will have to compare notes,I don't sleep very well and I have nausea in the morning,it's encouraging to hear it's helped with that at least
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I have a question - I've noticed that a lot of you take utrogestan vaginally instead of orally but when I mentioned this to the GP I saw on Monday (not my regular GP, another one who is the head of the practice) she said no because it doesn't offer enough protection. I'm starting mine tonight - orally - and am a bit worried about side effects, TBH although I'll give it a go. Do those of you that take it vaginally have your doctor's agreement, or do you just do it anyway?
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I just started doing that this month as can't cope with them orally. I haven't spoken to my GP about it, but I probably will when I have my review next month. I will also ask for a scan. I don't think they will be happy. But I did have a bleed after the 7 days and I don't always on patches, so I am presuming this means it worked...
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I have a question - I've noticed that a lot of you take utrogestan vaginally instead of orally but when I mentioned this to the GP I saw on Monday (not my regular GP, another one who is the head of the practice) she said no because it doesn't offer enough protection. I'm starting mine tonight - orally - and am a bit worried about side effects, TBH although I'll give it a go. Do those of you that take it vaginally have your doctor's agreement, or do you just do it anyway?
Your doctor is wrong. Completely incorrect. You actually absorb more used vaginally. Taken orally, a lot of the hormone is lost during digestion and it is processed by the liver, which isn't ideal either.
Utrogestan is licensed to be used vaginally in European countries and it is exactly the same product we use. I use utrogestan vaginally and have fewer side effects that way.
Thanks Birdy, that's really helpful.
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Is it as sedating when taken vaginally? (I'm guessing not?) I'm having trouble sleeping (although better since I started the estrogen) and I was kinda hoping it would help with that but I could do without major side effects RN, so the vaginal route sound better. Also, is it just 100mg if taken vaginally?
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I still feel sedated when I take it vaginally, that's why I take it in the evening..
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Thanks Tracey, that's useful to know.
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If taking utrogestan vaginally im supposing it doesn't matter if you've got an empty stomach or not
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No 😀
Yay,I think I might try it then because taking it orally is messing with my snacking 😂
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Ugh. Took the utro orally just to see but woke at 3 again with worse anxiety/anxious dreams and a horrible burning feeling all over. I'll try vaginally tonight but I'm actually wondering if the gel is doing enough.
When I was (briefly) on the patches, by the 2nd week I was starting to sleep around 5 hours a night, give or take and the nausea settled down but I had to stop the patches. When I started the gel 3-4 days later, I put the first application on at around 4.30pm, as I had to wait for the pharmacy to get it in. I then slept until 6am, no nausea (yay!) and put more gel on at around 8am. Started to feel significantly better in myself by mid-afternoon but had a dip later on the evening. Went to bed OK but woke at 3, with nausea again and had a lot of anxiety yesterday. Took the utro last night, again got off OK but again woke at 3 with bad anxiety.
I'm on 2 pumps of gel - doc said I could increase to 4 after a month. I think I'm going to add an extra 3rd pump in the evening now, to see if it helps my sleep and the anxiety. Any advice? Is this a bad idea?
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kayellvee - have been away but just seen your post (and Birdy's excellent response!). I made a detailed post about the studies that investigated the use of vaginal progesterone in protecting the womb when used as part of HRT. I've bumped the post for you (and others who might find it useful!). This is the thread: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43633.0.html You might like to print it off to give to the GP who says it doesn't offer enough protection! On what does she base that statement?!!!
Having weird dreams is a common side effect of utrogestan even when taken vaginally, although you should experience fewer side effects generally taken this way as has been said. I still feel sedated from vaginal use because actually more progesterone is abosrbed systemically, but because the metabolic breakdown pathway is different ( in terms of the amount of by-products from the liver) there should be fewer of some of the nastier side effects that some women experience.
Sorry I can't advise on the gel and too busy to look in depth right now but just wanted to update re the utro! Hope you feel better soon....
Hurdity x
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Dear all,
Thought I would ask your advice as I am panicking and getting very depressed and ragged. I have now been on the Estrogel 2 pumps, utrogestan 200mg (for 12 days/month), testosterone for around three years plus Ovestin twice a week. ( I am 51 years old and started the regime at 47 when I was still getting a few periods not had any bleed for over a year even on the HRT ) HRT has dampened down any sign of flushes, made sleeping a thing that was possible (even though I was still pretty bad for waking up) and also made my anxiety a bit less extreme.
It has served me well so far except, I have realised to my dawning horror that for the last three months I have been increasingly insomniac to the point that I hardly get three hours sleep, even when I take a bit of a sleeping pill I still can hardly sleep. I am having bad panic attacks (partially due to extremely trying personal circumstances in terms of my marriage). I am waking up hot in the night again, I thought it was just the summer but actually I think it is hot flushes .I also am feeling slight twinges in my belly where I think my ovaries are, not painful just a bit twisty if you know what I mean.?!😶 I feel like I can hardly go on I'm so tired, also I feel hardly like a female any more. I can't achieve much of an O despite the testosterone though no problems with dryness.
My question to you is do you think it is a good idea to up my dose from two pumps to perhaps 2 1/2 pumps a night of oestrogel or will I just have to keep increasing it and increasing it on and on till nothing works anymore (if it's possible to get resistant to it which I doubt)
I don't know if it would be worth getting a scan and/or blood tests to check my hormone levels? I know that this is an inexact science and perhaps yield no useful results. I just can't stand not sleeping and feel so terrible, can hardly see how I can keep my job going at this rate. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. On way to Doctor to get diazepam, and sleeping pills but thinking more oestrogen in my system could be the answer. Thank you for any help you can give. Perhaps some of you are on more than two pumps a night? I hope it doesn't alter how long you're allowed to stay on HRT how many pumps you have. I'm terrified of being taken off it.
🐾C
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Hi Callisto yes I would say you need more oestrogen. It might be that your own reserves of oestrogen have fallen. X
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Hiya ladies. Does anyone else get cystitis on utrogestan?
Along with migraine my cystitis attacks seem linked to the 12days I am on it
Xx
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Thank you Dotty, It makes me relieved to hear what someone else thinks. Wondering how many pumps to try. 2.5 or three. I suppose I need to ask my doctor to see what she recommends.
🐾C
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Callisto...go up to 2.5 and increase to 3 if it's not helping. I started on 2, then 3, then3.5 and then 4. I've stuck with 4 x
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Hi,I apply my gel to my inner thigh,do you spread it out or just put it on a small area and do you rub it in or just smear it on and leave to dry
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Thanks Dotty,
Do you split your dose of gel between evening and morning?
( been reading peoples first posts and can't believe that I hadn't recognised that I have got many of the classic meno symptoms back again ..
Elkwarning wrote,
'crushing anxiety, massive sense of self loathing / worthlessness and rage. I alternate between really very capable and wanting to hide in a cave.' That is exactly how I feel again now and was how I felt three years ago when first on HRT.
Nannyneet, I smear it on and leave to dry not rub it in : )
🐾C
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Thanks Dotty,
Do you split your dose of gel between evening and morning?
( been reading peoples first posts and can't believe that I hadn't recognised that I have got many of the classic meno symptoms back again ..
someone wrote
'crushing anxiety, massive sense of self loathing / worthlessness and rage. I alternate between really very capable and wanting to hide in a cave.' That is exactly how I feel again now and was how I felt three years ago when first on HRT.
Nannyneet, I smear it on and leave to dry not rub it in : )
🐾C
Thanks that's what I've been doing,the wondered if it should be rubbed in,I put one pump on each thigh but it spreads a really long way,not helped by being a short arse 😂
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Really struggling with this...2nd lot of utro last night, vaginally this time. Woke an hour earlier at 2am and haven't been able to get back to sleep. Tried an extra half pump of Oestrogel last night thinking it might help sleep. Really stressed and anxious about the day and about how I feel. The patches were much better for me, certainly regarding sleep and nausea, apart from the allergic reaction.
Also, I've been rubbing the gel in but seeing some posts, it looks like I'm doing it wrong. :-\
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New advice from top menopause specialists is that you should rub the gel in until it's dry.
Callisto... I use all 4 pumps at once in morning on outer arms and shoulders. I find that's best for me. Advice is split on whether you should spilt the dose and where you should rub it. X
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Thanks Dotty. Just feeling a bit hopeless this morning.
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Oh I'm frustrated,
My consultant said that it would be sensible to get a blood test to check estrodial levels before increasing dose Because I ( despairingly) took an extra half a pump last night I have to wait at least a week because apparently it will have already affected my levels. I thought these blood tests were inconclusive.. :o 🐾C
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Callisto... blood tests are a waste of time. Doctors should go on symptoms and wether the symptoms are going. Blood tests are of some use to see if you are absorbing the oestrogen x
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I agree with Dotty Callisto, blood tests are no good. I am the same as Dotty I use 4 pumps, but other ladies can control their symptoms on on 1/2 pr 3. My GP and Consultant go on controlling symptoms. What's the good of a blood test that says in theory you have enough oestrogen but you still have flushes, anxiety, aches pains etc? GP's always err on the side of caution about increasing doses because the majority of them don't really understand what they are talking about although they should! >:( Only you know how your body feels and can judge What is good about the gel is you can vary the dose without having to ask them every time. Up to 4 pumps is absolutely fine - in fact there have been ladies on the forum who have used 6 but they are definitely under supervision! Up to 4 is perfectly ok. It does take a while for your body to settle and sometimes when you up it you feel a bi rough for a couple of days whilst the body adjusts. it has take me a 1 whole year to get my hrt right - there is no quick fix.
I do the same as Dotty - 4 pumps in the morning and rub it in. I think if you don't rub it in the carrier agent evaporates and you lose some of the dose, so I rub it in until its gone. I put it on my thighs.
How long have you been on Utro Keyellvee?
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Thank you Dotty and Ladybt28,
I must've somehow got the wrong end of the stick, I thought you were meant to smooth gel and not rub it in and it then absorbs slowly and that was better... aaargh!
So many contradictions out there everywhere with HRT,
I am now panicking even more.. what do I do regarding upping my dose? I wish I hadn't asked my consultant's advice. Do I ignore her and just up my dose by half a pump or do I go and get the blood test then ignore results if they tell me my levels are fine? Why is it so difficult? I hate the constant battle and extra stress of uncertainty that you might be denied HRT at some point. So frazzled and not helped by the hoopla of doctors :-\ 🐾C
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Hi dotty
Can I just ask do you use estrogel on its own or do you take progesterone ?
If so what progesterone ? And how is it administered orally or vaginally?
And have you experienced excessive hair shedding.
As I use 2 pumps estrogel and has been great however after 5 months of taking started getting nausea and constipation and I have suffered with hair shedding and hair has thinned dramatically! Would a progesterone help balance this although I've had hysterectomy and ovary removal so I know is not necessary but willing to try to stop hairloss.
I've recently changed to estradot patch 50 but not as good for sleep and VA symptoms and hair still shedding .
Bloods all normal and thyroid
Estrogen level 104
Testosterone 0.6
Could it be due to low progesterone or testosterone
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How long have you been on Utro Keyellvee?
I only took it for 2 days but had to stop - my mood tanked badly and I'm really badly bloated/constipated - can't eat properly, which is causing me high anxiety (I have OCD issues around eating). I phoned the doc and she said to stop it and the gel for now. Haven't been able to make another appt yet but I will.
I'm actually considering trying an SSRI and leaving the HRT for now, to be reconsidered later because my main issue is anxiety/panic attacks, with OCD tendencies particularly around food. I do think hormones are playing a part though. Need to chat to the doc first.
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Love my GP,
He said he treats the symptoms not focus on the estrogen blood test results and just to up my dose of oestrogel. The irony is he cannot prescribe it as he NHS so I have to hope my private doc writes me another prescription when I run out sooner than they expected! ( Otherwise I will have to head to Spain to buy some extra there). Crazy world 🐾🐾C
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why in gods name can he not prescribe it on the NHS Callisto, mines on the NHS and I'm in Northern Ireland and most women here get it on the NHS? It's in the prescribing book?
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Hi Lady,
You are lucky, many parts of the UK do not have these hormones available on the NHS..
I've tried and will continue trying in the Lothians. Can't really afford all this expense inc private consultancy fees but there you go! I want to stick to this HRT regimen so I have to pay the price as do many others 🐾C
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Hi guys
Can I ask have any of you guys had hairloss in the estrogel without combined with utrogestan ?
I take estrogen only as have had hysterectomy and ovaries removed but hair seems so much thinner in the scalp some sites say this is a side effect others say post marketing results have shown alopecia and other sites say frequency unknown for hair loss from the available data , the actual leaflet that comes with the estrogel dosent state hairloss x
My estrogen level has dropped from 195 to 104 on the gel although hairloss is not as bad which is making me wonder whether high estrogen levels in ration to progesterone and testosterone is causing my hairloss as now my level is lower the hairloss is not as bad
Your advice and thoughts are much appreciated
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Hi guys
Can I ask have any of you guys had hairloss in the estrogel without combined with utrogestan ?
I take estrogen only as have had hysterectomy and ovaries removed but hair seems so much thinner in the scalp some sites say this is a side effect others say post marketing results have shown alopecia and other sites say frequency unknown for hair loss from the available data , the actual leaflet that comes with the estrogel dosent state hairloss x
My estrogen level has dropped from 195 to 104 on the gel although hairloss is not as bad which is making me wonder whether high estrogen levels in ration to progesterone and testosterone is causing my hairloss as now my level is lower the hairloss is not as bad
Your advice and thoughts are much appreciated
I've suffered hair loss on Estrogel, I only take progesterone for 7 days per month..
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Hi Lady,
You are lucky, many parts of the UK do not have these hormones available on the NHS..
I've tried and will continue trying in the Lothians. Can't really afford all this expense inc private consultancy fees but there you go! I want to stick to this HRT regimen so I have to pay the price as do many others 🐾C
The gel is available on the NHS in the uk, your gp is wrong not to prescribe it for you,I would make a complaint,my gp wanted me to have patches but she couldn't get any so she gave me the gel instead
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If only it were true! Not all regions supply the same types of HRT. My private consultant and my GP and a letter from local prescribing body all stated independently that the gel was not available in Lothians Scotland.
I have not discovered anyone else who has got it on NHS up here. If I had any evidence to the contrary I would be delighted- anyhow asked my GP again about it but not holding my breath. It would make life so much easier and affordable.
🐾C
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This has come up before. It is all available on NHS. Sure your doc can override the formulary list of meds? My doc does all the time as none of mine is on our local list (in England). They just have to justify it. Might be different in Scotland but the same broad rules must apply re meds? If you prefer to have oestrogen as a gel than a patch (eg reaction to patches) then they have to prescribe it? After all it is your right to have transdermal oestrogen. Re utrogestan - this is the only progesterone licesned on NHS so there is no other alternative. If you get nowhere do write to Dr Currie (£30) for clarification about how docs can prescribe this as she is in Scotland.
Hurdity x
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Hi Tracey e
What do you take now instead of the estrogel ?
What progesterone do you take ? Would you say your hairloss is better now you stopped the estrogel ?
I did swap to estradot 50 patch for 5 weeks but found hairloss no different it was still coming out
I don't know what to do stick with the gel and add progesterone , I e had hysterectomy so not needed but wonder if the imbalance between the hormones is causing hairloss and I can't have testosterone intill estrogen is higher
Blood work all fine thyroid iron etc all good
It is definitely hormonal , however after my hysterectomy and ovaries removed I didn't have hair loss it was the opposite I had hair growth really thick and long and my levels were all low for all 3 hormones now I've added estrogen it's thinned or maybe my estrogen has got that low now that it would of thinned anyway
I'm so confused and have given up work threw all this as am all over the place
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Hi Tracey e
What do you take now instead of the estrogel ?
What progesterone do you take ? Would you say your hairloss is better now you stopped the estrogel ?
I did swap to estradot 50 patch for 5 weeks but found hairloss no different it was still coming out
I don't know what to do stick with the gel and add progesterone , I e had hysterectomy so not needed but wonder if the imbalance between the hormones is causing hairloss and I can't have testosterone intill estrogen is higher
Blood work all fine thyroid iron etc all good
It is definitely hormonal , however after my hysterectomy and ovaries removed I didn't have hair loss it was the opposite I had hair growth really thick and long and my levels were all low for all 3 hormones now I've added estrogen it's thinned or maybe my estrogen has got that low now that it would of thinned anyway
I'm so confused and have given up work threw all this as am all over the place
Still on the same regime Sammie, tbh I think it's the imbalance of Estrogen to progesterone that's causing my problems. Waiting on a Mirena coil to be fitted in September, maybe it will improve then due to the steady flow of progesterone. :)
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Thank you Hurdity,
I don't understand, am I one of the only people having to go private as I want particular HRT (Oestrogel and Utrogestan)? Thought from this forum that most people were getting these privately and I've heard of no person from Scotland that has managed to get gel and utro on NHS.
I can little afford it plus it involves going through an extra tier of doctor, hence an extra layer of unpredictability and stress which I do not need when I am increasingly prone to anxiety and insomnia and exhausted .
I will try again with my doctor but as previously said even my private consultant has stated they're not available on NHS in Scotland.
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Callisto most women in UK will be getting these hormones ( gel and utrogestan) on NHS as they are licensed medication. I have written to Dr C via Emma to see if she can clarify re Scotland but Dr C is very busy at the moment so may not have time. If you need further clarification re Scotland then I do suggest you write to her yourself (Dr C) at the cost of £30 then she will answer in due course, if not on holiday.
You really should not have to pay.
I find it very hard to believe that Utrogestan especially cannot be obtained from the NHS docs in Scotland (ie that the doc cannot override the system) because it is the only progesterone licensed for HRT in UK, and there is no alternative if you wish to use bio-(=body-)identical hormones, which is your right!
Of course you don't want to have the extra stress - menopause is bad enough without having to fight for hormones which have been developed and licensed to make you feel better.
Maybe the system is very different in Scotland but we do need clarification!
Hurdity x
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Thank you very much Hurdity,
For your sound advice and kindness in contacting Dr Currie through Emma. You make me a wee bit hopeful in the face of meds costing around £30 not including consultancy fees for gel, utro, testosterone (which I understand is unlicensed for women) once my gel dose is increased to counter the reappearance meno symptoms. This is not considering the Brexit effect. I know I could swop to the HRT that is licenced in my area but I want to stay on the bio-identicals that my body is already used to. And I am allergic to plasters.
Wishing all well on this sunny Sunday.
🐾C
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Hi Tracey e
So you take 2 pumps and Utrogestan for 7 days
The Mirena I believe has a progesterone that's testosterone derived so may make your hair loss worse x
If you are post menopause u can take Utrogestan 100mg everyday.
Have you had side effects from Utrogestan as you only take it for 7 days.
The other problem I've been having is excessive sweating in groin area I thought it was urine but have had my bladder tested and all is fine but my knickers get soaked and then get irritation to together with discharge have u tried femfresh or something do u suffer with this ?
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I was on the pill which contained levonorgestrel and I was fine on it, so I'm hoping it will be ok. I never had a problem with hair loss on the pill either. :)
Yes I've had issues with Utrogestan hence the change. I can't take it orally as it upsets my tummy and if I take it via the vaginal route it's too strong for me to take every day. It knocks me out. :( I don't really suffer from groin sweating Sammie so no I haven't tried Femfresh. I know you can get a watery discharge at the menpause progresses so maybe it's that.
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Hi birdy
Yes I do , or did I've been using Ovestin cream twice weekly since December last year , I started with Vagifem however 5 weeks into taking it that's when my hair loss started but today with warm weather my knickers I've changed 3 times they have been so damp I've got no prolapse had this checked not sure if I'm incontinent I don't feel wee coming out and no odour but just wet and if I'm constipated it's worse but again not sure if sweat any thoughts ?
I'm seeing gynocology on 11th so will say to them
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Hi birdy
Yes I do , or did I've been using Ovestin cream twice weekly since December last year , I started with Vagifem however 5 weeks into taking it that's when my hair loss started but today with warm weather my knickers I've changed 3 times they have been so damp I've got no prolapse had this checked not sure if I'm incontinent I don't feel wee coming out and no odour but just wet and if I'm constipated it's worse but again not sure if sweat any thoughts ?
I'm seeing gynocology on 11th so will say to them
I doubt the Vagifem would cause your hair loss. Probably more due to the lowering of your hormones as you're going through the menopause.
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Hi Tracey e
Are you still on the Estrogel or have you changed this now ?
The progesterone I have been prescribed is Utrogestan 100mg every night if I choose to take it as not necessary for me having hysterectomy but trying to stop hair shedding although it does seem to of slowed down and have gone back on Estrogel from the patch as I found the patch not cutting it with sleep flushes and VA the gel have been better but have swelling in vaginal area and hair shedding was happening on both ? I had wanted to go on the pill as I had no issues on this with hair loss but as I'm 40 and smoke they are reluctant to put me on it .
Can you confirm your regime
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Hi birdy
What regime are you on for hrt
Have you had hair loss ?
Can an imbalance between estrogen and progesterone cause hair loss and testosterone ?
I have been on Estrogel 2 pumps and has helped for. VA symptoms flushes and sleep but had hair thinning and tried estradiol patch for 5 weeks but it was not as good for sleep VA and was still shedding hair not any worse but not any better I'm not sure what to do ?
Please help
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Hi Tracey e
Are you still on the Estrogel or have you changed this now ?
The progesterone I have been prescribed is Utrogestan 100mg every night if I choose to take it as not necessary for me having hysterectomy but trying to stop hair shedding although it does seem to of slowed down and have gone back on Estrogel from the patch as I found the patch not cutting it with sleep flushes and VA the gel have been better but have swelling in vaginal area and hair shedding was happening on both ? I had wanted to go on the pill as I had no issues on this with hair loss but as I'm 40 and smoke they are reluctant to put me on it .
Can you confirm your regime
Yes I'm now trialling Estradot 75mg per day, still on Utrogestan awaiting mirena coil to be fitted. But I am post menopausal Sammie. :)
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Hi Tracey e
Yes I'm post menopausal too as had hysterectomy 5 yrs ago and went into surgical menopause but luckily had no Symtoms till summer last year which was dampness in knickers nothing else now since taking estrogen hrt am suffering hair thinning /shedding VA symtoms weight gain irritation aniexty depression I was fine before but if I stop estrogen I'll have to suffer with hair loss . I'm going to try estradot 75 patch and see about hair because I wasn't obsorbing the gel good anyway as estrogen levels dropped maybe that's why I'm getting now more dampness again and sweating in groin could lack of progesterone cause excessive sweating ?
Birdy - my thyroid is fine and all other bloods my hair loss is definitely sex hormones just not sure which one direction my tester one is low and estrogen low but I know women who take both of these in HRT and still have thinning hair and then also with progesterone too but I had no issues on the pill ? I'll keep u updated on the patch and also gynecologist I'm seeing in the 11th as the last checkup said my vagina was well estronised and no atrophy but the wetness has come back worse last few days ? Very strange us poor women
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Hi ladies I'm now on the Sandrena gel and ustrogen again due to Estraderm patch hard to get. Just hope I'm not poorly as last time made my ME worse. Xx
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Hi Sammie, when I take Utrogestan my sweats seem to come back a little, so for me progesterone seem to make me sweat more. Are you on any Estrogen at the moment?
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Hi Tracey e
Yes I am I was on estrogel 2 pumps 6 months but as my estrogen levels dropped they wanted me to increase to 3 pumps but couldn't cope with being irritated and more bloated worse constipation and aniexty so stuck with 2 but have never felt quite right still have trouble getting to sleep and but started to feel swollen in my genitalia so I swapped to estradot patch 50 but this couldn't cut it with flushes and sleep was worse and VA symtoms seemed worse but swelling went so I went back to estrogel 2 pumps and then recently I've had 3 bad days of dripping wet between legs sleep improved and mood and hair no worse but swelling back in vagina and then the excessive dampness I've now gone back to estradot patch but 75 I cut a patch in half but had more hair come out this morning as only went on 2 days ago , but not sure what to do I can't keep chopping and changing but scared if I stay on the gel I'll go bald but then if I'm on the patch would VA symtoms get worse I'm wondering if I have imbalance with progesterone that's causing the excessive sweating ? Have u noticed an increase in hairloss on utrogestan part when you take it ?
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Hi Tracey e
Yes I am I was on estrogel 2 pumps 6 months but as my estrogen levels dropped they wanted me to increase to 3 pumps but couldn't cope with being irritated and more bloated worse constipation and aniexty so stuck with 2 but have never felt quite right still have trouble getting to sleep and but started to feel swollen in my genitalia so I swapped to estradot patch 50 but this couldn't cut it with flushes and sleep was worse and VA symtoms seemed worse but swelling went so I went back to estrogel 2 pumps and then recently I've had 3 bad days of dripping wet between legs sleep improved and mood and hair no worse but swelling back in vagina and then the excessive dampness I've now gone back to estradot patch but 75 I cut a patch in half but had more hair come out this morning as only went on 2 days ago , but not sure what to do I can't keep chopping and changing but scared if I stay on the gel I'll go bald but then if I'm on the patch would VA symtoms get worse I'm wondering if I have imbalance with progesterone that's causing the excessive sweating ? Have u noticed an increase in hairloss on utrogestan part when you take it ?
Hi Sammie I don't think the hair loss is Utrogestan as I only take it for 7 days a month. For me I would say it was the Estrogel causing it. I'm on Estradot 75 and today I feel much better in myself, happier and no palps. Estradot 50 wasn't strong enough for me. My nether regions feel a lot better too, so I'm thinking I'll stick to Estradot. That's if I can still get it on next prescription.
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Hi Tracey e
I need some advice or opinion please as I'm not obsorbing the gel that well do u think I should try the estradot patch and stick to it at 75 or combine progesterone with the estrogel ?
Or take the estradot patch and progesterone ?
Or go on the combined pill ?
I'm so confused 🤷🏼♀️ and cannot cope anymore
Thank you
What are your levels now of estrogen ? Have they offered testosterone to u cause I've read if this is low can cause hairloss but so can imbalance between estrogen and progesterone whereby if estrogen is unopposed then the ratio to progesterone can cause estrogen to dominate?
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Hi Sammie I thought you were on Estradot already. I think Hurdity my be better to advise you this Sammie as I can only go from my own experience..
I've not had my hormones tested I just go on symptom relief as my yard stick. I haven't thought about tetesterone yet as I'm still trying to find the correct dose of Estrogen. Bare in mind it takes a while for HRT to kick in so breath and give it some time to work. :)
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Hi Tracey e
Was on the gel for 7 months then tried estradot patch 5 weeks but no improvement with hair loss and sleep worse VA worse.
So went back on gel but then was getting swelling in vagina sore bruised feeling and I have VA as been on vaginal estrogen for 8 months although recent gyno said there's no more atrophy ?
So went back on patch but upped dose to 75. But found this to give me burning of vagina. Went back on gel then got this wetness really bad for 2 days excessive sweating in groin
So I really don't know what to do x
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Hi all, I've been having oestrogel and utrogestan for around 6/8 wks now, I've been taking them at the same time (as per patient information leaflet), both in the evening....and 2 hrs after food.
I'm going on holiday tomorrow, my question is, will I be ok for a wk taking them apart, the utrogestan not necessarily on an empty stomach, and the oestrogel earlier in the day?
It's going to be difficult to take it as I do now....or could I even take the utrogestan vaginally for a wk, assuming that way, it doesn't have to be on an empty stomach?
Many thanks in advance.
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Hi Winnie1967
I use my pumps of oestrogel in the morning and take my utrogestan vaginally at night. I didn't pay any attention to the patient leaflet! ;) I read about all the ladies experiences on this forum and worked out that lots did it differently - some split doses of oestrogel, some do them all at once, some wait for it to dry others rub it in hard. Doesn't matter just do what works for you.
Yep you are right vaginal utrogestan bypasses the stomach so no need to worry whether its empty or not! Go and enjoy your holiday - use your pumps earlier in the day and the utro vaginally at night....eat drink be merry...have a lovely time!
It will all be perfectly fine! x
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Hiya, that's brilliant, thanks ever so much, that's a weight off my mind 😃 x
Hi Winnie1967
I use my pumps of oestrogel in the morning and take my utrogestan vaginally at night. I didn't pay any attention to the patient leaflet! ;) I read about all the ladies experiences on this forum and worked out that lots did it differently - some split doses of oestrogel, some do them all at once, some wait for it to dry others rub it in hard. Doesn't matter just do what works for you.
Yep you are right vaginal utrogestan bypasses the stomach so no need to worry whether its empty or not! Go and enjoy your holiday - use your pumps earlier in the day and the utro vaginally at night....eat drink be merry...have a lovely time!
It will all be perfectly fine! x
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Oh, at the risk of sounding a bit dim, do I just , ahem, push the capsule 'up'? And hope it doesn't drop straight out lol!
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yes winnie that's exactly what you do ;D I find there are few hazards which I felt I should warn you of if you in case you encounter them.. but maybe it's just me...kack handed!!! :) so.... I don't have long fingers and I find if I don't do it quickly enough the little ball dissolves on the end of it which makes it more difficult... So, I use an applicator from an old set of canneston pessaries or I put my utrogestan in the fridge!!!
Interestingly I haven't had any dropping out though? xx
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Hi ladies
Have any of you on estrogel only HRT had hair thinned.
I've been on it for 8 months but am not obsorbing it well so don't know whether to increase dose or swap to a patch ?
I don't want to waste more time I'f in another 3 months my estrogen is lower ?
Also as the estrogel has been good for VA symtoms I worried if I swap to a patch my VA will get worse but then if I'm not obsorbing the gel well maybe it's the Ovestin that is working for my VA .
I want my hair to stop thinning and am starting to think it's an imbalance between estrogen and progesterone
Please advise
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Hi Sammiejane,
I am on progesterone and testosterone as well and my hair has thinned. I'm not clear why the oestrogen component can cause this. I haven't read anything on the forum which suggests how it can be stopped...so I'm no help to you. Maybe someone technical like BeaR will be along in a minute.
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Hi sammie....my hairs not great neitrr. Shedding loads. Dont know what to advise ..sorry.x
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Ladybt28
I only take estrogen as had everything removed but prior to starting HRT my hair didn't thin I've been post menopause for 5 yrs but only started HRT 8 months ago as I had no Symtoms but now my hair has thinned gained weight and don't really feel a balance yet I'm thinking it must be the gel or lack of progesterone for me
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I am on oestrogen only. I started on Oestrogel and blood tests showed I was not absorbing much. Switched to Sandrena, not much better. Switched to Estradot 100 patch and absorb this much better. I also use vaginal oestrogen products and testosterone. Before I got my oestrogen levels up (now a respectable 450 pmol/l or thereabouts) I was shedding more hair than I would have liked. Now my hair has thickened up again and is as it always was. I agree with what Birdy said.
JP x
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Hi Joanie pat
Do u take progesterone at all ?
With u being on estradot patch have you found your VA symtoms to be worse then from when u was on the gel ?
Do you use Ovestin cream or vagifem vaginally ?
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Hi Joanie pat
Do u take progesterone at all ?
With u being on estradot patch have you found your VA symtoms to be worse then from when u was on the gel ?
Do you use Ovestin cream or vagifem vaginally ?
No Sammiejane, don't need progesterone, had hysterectomy and ovaries removed so I only need oestrogen. VA symptoms are mainly under control (with the occasional blip). All my symptoms are better on patch than gel because I absorb better from the patch. For VA I have the Estring, plus Vagifem every other night, and Estriol Cream externally every other night. I find Ovestin stings so had to give up on that.
JP x
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Hi Joanie pat
Have you found to have loss on your regime ?
With patch or vagifem ?
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You've got me worried now Birdy :-\ I thought my oestrogen and testosterone were ok being on 4 pumps of gel and T 3 times a week? although I've never had any bloods, my meno clinic and GP don't do them but my hair is definitely thinning.
I had patches and don't want to go there again??? and I really don't want to mess up what I've got. As you know its taken me ages to get this far...Hum gonna need some more information....anybody?/// xx
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Hi Joanie pat
Have you found to have loss on your regime ?
With patch or vagifem ?
No, hair is good now
JP x
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Joanie pat
Hi Joanie
Do u suggest I try upping the gel again to 3 pumps before swapping to the patch to see if I get better absorption, as I'm not even sure if the gel is causing hairloss as I started shedding prior to taking this medication but has continued and it's more thinning scalp hair , my only worry is when I upped to 3 pumps before I was very anxious fatigued and constipated but also don't want to waste time waiting to see if estrogen levels go up they have told me that u need them at 250/300 mine were 195 first 4 months then dropped to 104 this was sticking on 2 pumps . All other blood work fine .
Also for anyone out there could the exessive sweating armpits and groin be due to hormonal imbalance as that's what I've read between estrogen and progesterone?
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Hi
Having just started on the Testim 2% gel (going to do 3 times per week as guided on here). Is it really one pump? Quite a lot seems to come out in one pump? More than a pea size - maybe double?
(I use patches for hrt so not used to pumps)
Just don't want to be using too much?
Thank you lovely ladies :)
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Hi ladies
Can the estradot patch be applied to lower back / buttocks or does it have to go on the abdomen. ?
Anyone had hairloss from estrogel ?
Or hairloss from vagifem ?
Anyone who has had a hysterectomy take progesterone and if so which one ?
Are there any ladies on here that are on the pill following hysterectomy and ovaries removed. ?
Thanks
Sam
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Hi birdy
Does Ovestin work just as good as estrogel ?
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Sorry birdy
Menopause brain
I meant does Ovestin work just as well as vagifem ?
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Joanie. May I ask about the estring please.
It gives a continous dose doesnt it.? Do you find it isnt effective on it's own and that's why you use vagifem too or is it the other way round.?
My hair loss is strange.it started 2 or so years,ago, before HRT. It sheds a frightening amount for weeks at a time and then stops shedding for weeks but doesnt seem to grow in that time either. So it's getting thinner and thinner. .eyebrows too. But worst is my eyelashes are now non exsistant and this has happened fairly quickly. All that's left are a,few tiny stubs, I cant even feel with my fingers. :'(
Sammie.
Your question about taking progesterone or mini pill after hysterectomy. I assume you mean for balance, is that why. as technically you dont need to take progesterone with no uterus. You can take eastrogen on it's own. Why dont you start a,new thread about it. Maybe you will get more answers. It's an interesting question. I've seen it talked about on a US site.
Xx
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Sammiejane - this thread is about utrogestan and Oestrogel not really vag treatments. Maybe better to start another thread about vaginal treatments or tag onto another relevant one if appropriate? Please try to post your questions on the right thread or a separate thread as it gets confusing and the right people might not read them or do a search of other threads as Birdy suggests. FYI they are both designed for treatment of VA and it is a matter of personal preference whether to use a Vaginal estradiol tablet ( Vagifem) or estriol cream ( either the 0.01 % or the stronger Ovestin). I don't want to take this thread off topic though as members who just want to read about utrogestan and oestrogel then have to read other stuff!
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Hi hurdity
With regard to estrogel does this cause thinning scalp hair ?
Or am I loosing hair cause my estrogen is low at 104 and testosterone at 0.8
Or do I need a balance with progesterone ? I have no uterus so not needed but want to balance things and stop hairloss
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Joanie. May I ask about the estring please.
It gives a continous dose doesnt it.? Do you find it isnt effective on it's own and that's why you use vagifem too or is it the other way
Hi Tc,
I will start another thread to answer your question about the Estring, as I agree with Hurdity's point that this one is getting a bit muddled!
JP x
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Posted on another thread, but I think most relevant here ...
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Hi ladies,
Following on from another thread when I had just started this regime and we talked through using the utrogestan vaginally etc ... Then, as I have been bleeding off and on for months (all checked out) and have tried various methods including patches, I decided to delay the start of the utrogestan as I wasn't sure how it would make me feel. I had a stressful week, including a job interview for a promotion. (Got the job by the way!)
Anyway, on day 21 of Oestrogel I started spotting - not unusual for me, especially with yet another change of HRT. Two nights ago I suddenly felt very sick after napping on the sofa, got up quickly and promptly fainted. Very unusual for me. Paramedics checked me over, heart trace and blood sugar etc all ok. BP was very low but soon picked up. Told me to see doctor next day. I queried anaemia since I have had it quite badly before and with all the breakthrough bleeding plus my own cycle kicking in ... I have had blood tests today, results in a few days. Overnight I started flooding to add insult to injury, soaking a super plus extra tampon and pad in half an hour on two occasions. Ibuprofen seems to have helped it to ease but I now feel weaker than ever. And this is without starting utrogestan yet. My questions are should I start even though as I'm now having a natural bleed (I can tell) this would be the time to be on oestrogen. Am I having too much oestrogen, hence the very heavy bleed? Should I stick with this and hope it resolves, or cut down to 1 pump rather than 2 per day?
This evening I've been flooding again and passing clots. :'(
Thanks for listening as always.
X
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JP. I agree. . Thank you X
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Hi All,
New poster but been lurking for a long while.
I'm 42 and post meno. I'm approx 50 days into Studd regime of 3 pumps estrogel and 10 days 100 utrogestan monthly, plus testogel daily.
I've already been feeling lots better. Sweating stopped immediately and sleep was transformed. I'm lots less sensitive and have broken out of my cycle of feeling permanently overwhelmed and anxious. My dead legged fatigue has gone which is amazing as that was my worst symptom.
The only thing that hasn't improved is how run down, achey and depressed I feel after running. That became a really bad symptom very recently ( started in the last six months. I've been post meno for almost ten years) I used to run regularly with only normal running type aches. I've tried running maybe 4 times since started new hrt and I still get the joint aches, drowsiness and low feelings after abd they have taken out the next day.
That's not my question though!
Just wondering about mood and utrogestan. I was worried about how I'd feel during my ten days of utrogestan but it was ok. Bit more tired but I'm a teacher and its start of term so I can't blame everything on hormones :)
So I take utrogestan days 1 -10 of calendar month, then am told to expect bleed days 13-15. Felt ok on utrogestan when taking it, but now on days 12-14, I feel so anxious and just rubbish generally. Is this a thing other people have experienced? If so, will it go when I get a bleed?
I feel really just before period-y and am desperate for a bleed as a release. However, I've never been much of a bleeder. When I was first starting peri, I was put on the pill and never really got a bleed then. I'm worried I wont get my release! I'm on day 15. Hope my cycle info makes sense.
If
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I think this was the thread that someone asked what kind of gel I had got as there seemed to be problems getting it. I just picked up a prescription the other day for Tostran 2%.
I should add I am in Scotland and it is manufactured by a company in the Borders (Kyowa Kirin Ltd). This may be different from England. But still able to get.
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Hi Tyaca
:welcomemm:
Sorry to hear you're feeling rough. What you're experiencing after you stop the progesterone is (unfortunately!) normal pms due to progesterone withdrawal which is what happens in a normal period. Progesterone falls and several days later a bleed usually comes. As the progesterone falls the physiological changes in your body and cells caused by the progesterone are reversed leading to temporaraily unpleasant side effects in many women - eg headache, tension, irritability, low mood etc. Once the progesterone leaves your system you should feel fine again. You may or may not get a bleed but you will still suffer the pms from the prog withdrawal as this is unrelated to whether you bleed. The bleed is determined by how much oestrogen and progesterone you take and how much the womb lining is stimulated by the oestrogen. So - if you are post-meno then you will get that release hopefully very soon!
Have you had thyroid function tested and made sure you are not lacking in any vitamins or minerals in your diet? Vit D should not be an issue at this time of year provided you were out in the sun over the summer months.
Also those feelings you get after exercise was how I felt before I started testosterone ( I am much older - mid 60's) and have lessened greatly since taking T. The gynae I saw said it can take 4-5 months to fully feel the benefits of T due to cellular effects throughout the body (rather than instant changes) so hang in there and hopefully you will continue to see an improvement.
Why not keep a diary ) if you haven't done so already) monitoring how you feel and during the different stages - which might help you realise if there have been changes as these may well be gradual?
What type of Testogel are you taking - sachets or pump pack and how big a dose? Also will your T levels be monitored after 6 months to check they are within physioloigcal limtis for women?
Glad you're feeling better overall.
Hurdity x
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I am only on my second day of 200 utrogestan. Ive been keeping a,diary on the cycle. The side effects start right from the first dose and seem to get worse each cycle. Migraine Insomnia, realy bad adrenaline rushes, sweats, horrible shakiness, nausea, cystitis ,stomach cramps and weirdly flu like symptoms. This drug is making me ill. And it makes me depressed and agitated. I realy now believe it must be a reaction to the drug not just to progesterone. It' just feels too strong for me. Iv e made it to less and less days each cycle.
My doc wants me to plough on til my meno appt on 17th October but I really cant carry on with it I. It doesnt make sense. If it was any other drug making me so Ill I would stop it. So after only 2 days Ithis month im giving up. I
I cant get to docs until next week. So I'm wondering should I stop my eastrogen too. If I have to stop HRT altogether then so be it. I cant see how I could possibly feel any worse. I've never had a reaction to a drug like this in my life. I was on contraceptive pill for a few years when younger with no issues
I've given it my best shot but enough is enough.
Xx
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Sorry to hear the prog is aking you feel rough Tc - I'm not sure what you mean about the drug though - which drug? Are you taking it vaginally? The thing about taking prog as part of HRT is we have to take it at doses way way higher than we need for endometrial protection because it is unstable in the body and breaks down quickly. The ovary would produce it in pulses throughout the day to keep our levels up but we have to take it once or twice per day. Unfortunately when at large doses this can increase the side effects because of the high concentration - so it's not the prog itself but the amount. Utrogestan is bio-identical. Do you take it vag or orally? Vag is better re side effects but they can still occur. I get them even on 100 mg vag ( am half way through cycle now and I feel exhausted. Fought off a migraine the other day....). I totally sympathise. If taking it vaginally can you ask doc if you can reduce to 100 mg rather than give up? Also I always make sure my vag is well plumped up with daily Vagifem the week before my cycle and do every alternate day while on the utro. I have this vague idea that this might prevent so much of it being absrobed and have no idea whether it does or not as there is no research!
So sorry this is still not working out for you Tc and wishing you all the best and hang in there. Apols as in haste.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity for your reply and for all the helpful input you have given on this forum before.
My thyroid is fine, but low vitamin d. I need to remember to take my vit d tablets - I'm vigilant with the hormones as I see them as strong and medical. But I hardly ever remember to take the vit d. I think because you can by it at Holland and barrett it feels less glamorous and important ;)
I'm on testogel sachets. Thank you for the prompting about getting levels tested after six months. I'm assuming studd clinic will do that, but if not then I will do bloods privately. I've done private bloods before and I like to see the numbers and feel like I have control. I'm glad to hear your post-exercise issues cleared up after being on testosterone for a while - gives me hope! My husband is convinced I just dont stretch enough after that - I'm not sure that explains the wrist and shoulder pain, or the drowsiness that makes staying awake afterwards impossible :(
So am I right in thinking my low mood is progesterone withdrawal rather than a response to the progesterone itself? I'm guessing that's probably good news as it would appear I can tolerate utrogestan which I know lots of people can't. Better 5 -7 days of PMS type symptoms on withdrawal rather than 10+ days of reaction to progesterone.
Also, even though I am irritable, overwhelmed and anxious, my energy levels are ok and I don't feel like hiding in a cave. So overall I think I can handle this every month; its certainly a lot better than how I felt before starting this regime. I find it's really helpful when you know what's going on when (and why).
For example, I keep obsessing about a work thing, but I'm just trying to recognise that I might be over anxious right now and maybe come back to thinking about this issue when worst hormonal feelings have passed.
Re the bleed, if I dont get a bleed, would that be because I didn't have enough lining to shed or because I didn't take a long or strong enough dose of progesterone?
If it's the former, I'm tempted to book myself in for a private uterine scan and see if maybe I can extend the oestrogen only phase. I'd be happy to pay for scans on a regular basis to keep an eye on this.
TC - I'm sorry you are feeling so bad. I'm not an expert, but it seems like you are doing the right thing coming off the utrogestan and in hope your meno dr can give you an alternative regime.
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Thanks hurdity. Yes I was referring to the utrogestan as a drug. . This month I've used vaginally but doc said I need 200 if I'm going to take for less than 12 days. As at moment I'm on 150 patch. (I dropped from 200 last week when I had to change from estradot to progynova due to the shortagesI)
It's just too strong for me. The reaction to it is,so immediate and so severe.
My scan yesterday showed thickness between 4.5 and 5 which I believe isnt high so I dont suppose it would hurt to drop to 100 tonight and see. . If I can stand it. Right now I just feel like I want this stuff out of my system as quickly as possible.
Sorry to hear you also have to fight off the dreaded migraines.fluctuation of a cycle isnt good for migraine sufferers. Hope you feel better quick.
Thank you Tyaca. My side effects start as soon as i take it so yes yours does seem more the traditional "withdrawal" I'm glad you feel better on the regime than you did before. Xxxx
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Hi Birdy,
I used Medichecks. I got a full blood count which cost £130. You get posted a sample kit, get blood taken then send it back. Because mine was a full blood count I needed to have sample collected by nurse. I used superdrug clinic but there are lots of other options (included walk in places where you don't need an appointment).
I have a sample kit for a full female hormone check that I am going to do before I go for my three month check up at studd clinic. It cost about 70. I think I'm going to do it once every six months. I only need a small amount of blood for that so can do a pin **** at home.
I'm aware that I'm new here and so it might look a bit suspicious if I rave about a company as my third ever post but I was really impressed. You get quite a lot of info about the tests on your online profile, including the normal range and a summary letter from dr.
When I did it in June was when I found out that my Fsh was 138 and my Lutenising hormone was 78. That gave me the confidence to finally go private for meno treatment. I'd had so much bull shit and disbelief from my Gps over the years.
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Quick question: Does anyone get on well with the conti regime of 25 days of 100mg, then 3 days off?
I had a small amount of bleeding yesterday (day 14. utrogestan days 1 - 10) was hoping that would help but I have woken up again with horrific morning dread. I've been reading back through this thread (love this thread!) and I didn't get any of the negative effects people talk about when taking utrogestan.
I guess I just have to wait and see how I settle down on this regime. I'll start a diary and see how this works for three months (which is when next apptmnt is). The regime has been good for me so far. I guess nothing's perfect, it's just trying to work out what the compromises I'll have to make are.
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Hi Tyaca
Are you post menopause? If so you can take the Utrogestan every day without a break x
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I couldnt take it continuously. But that might have been because my eastrogen was so low I ended up with an imbalance.
I only used 100mg last night vaginally. And I dont feels shaky and sick this morning but I'm supposed to be using 200mg for 12 days so I ts not a long term solution. if I can only get to 7 days on 100mg that's too risky on 200 patch. .
I've had a bit of a realisation that I've come to the end of the road with utrogestan. I've been on it best part of this year. If I took anything else I had such a bad reaction to I wouldve stopped ages ago but I think with HRT I have tried to carry on as I feel I need the eastrogen.
. I need to listen a bit more to my body and stop trying to force something on it which it obviously hates.
So hopefully I will get an alternative.
Xxx
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Hi tc
I confess I haven't read the whole of this thread soo could be missing something fundamental from your situation but your last post really struck a chord with me.
I take 100mg utrogestan for 12 days a month. I am post meno but because I had an endometrial ablation some years ago, 100mg was prescribed on the basis that I don't have of a womb lining. Thing is , it is making me feel so awful, I am waking at night with what can only be described s adrenal rushes , I can't get back to sleep and even if I do I wake in the morning still shaken . I take 2 pumps of Estrogel which has definitely helped a bit but I am not sure if it has bought my levels up sufficiently and maybe that is why I react so badly with the utrogestan phase. I really don't know. I go round and round in circles trying to work it all out.
I don't want to give up on HRT but if I carry on like this I will seriously consider it.
W x
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Hi Westie, the surges can be due to lack of oestrogen. I need 4 pumps of gel and 12 days of utro to stop my anxiety and panic attacks and control my other symptoms and I have a womb and ovaries. 2 pumps is the base dose, I think your levels are not high enough. I suggest that you up the pumps and see what happens. When I get to day 7/8 I start to feel bad on utro...a bit low and tired but I know it will stop soon.
Tc - 7 days on 100mg vaginally - keep going. There are ladies who are on high oestrogen and less progesterone than the prescribed dose. I believe it can be done under supervision. Now you have gone this far, keep going a little longer, otherwise you will be on Provera or a mirina coil and I think you tried Provera already and the result wasn't good? Forget what you are "supposed to to". Work out, within reason (and 7 days 100mg vaginally is within reason) what and how long you body can take and then go to your consultant and say that you want to do this, why you want to do t and that you need supervision, scans etc. You say you are less shaky...you know it will take a while to settle. 3 months of 7 days 100mg may but only may cause a build up but nothing dangerous and it could easily be fixed (with a big nasty dose) but you won't get cancer, or do anything which will cause long term damage from 3 months. xx
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I couldnt take it continuously. But that might have been because my eastrogen was so low I ended up with an imbalance.
I only used 100mg last night vaginally. And I dont feels shaky and sick this morning but I'm supposed to be using 200mg for 12 days so I ts not a long term solution. if I can only get to 7 days on 100mg that's too risky on 200 patch. .
I've had a bit of a realisation that I've come to the end of the road with utrogestan. I've been on it best part of this year. If I took anything else I had such a bad reaction to I wouldve stopped ages ago but I think with HRT I have tried to carry on as I feel I need the eastrogen.
. I need to listen a bit more to my body and stop trying to force something on it which it obviously hates.
So hopefully I will get an alternative.
Xxx
I agree with Ladybt regarding the "supposed to be...". Yes theoretically you need to be taking the max dose of prog with that high-sounding dose of oestrogen (the 200 mcg) but if your blood tests have shown you are not absorbing it fully then this means your womb lining will presumably not be building, and therefore the 200 mcg patch is not actually that high - for you. Also you are in surgical menopause which is a different situation. From what I've read on here many such women need a higher (sounding) dose just to get levels up to the same as some of us (with ovaries) might achieve on much lower doses.
Like Ladybt says if you can get to a bit longer on the utro (100 mg vag) then that's great. As long as yuou are beng monitored is the main thing when going off-lcience ( ie less than recommended) if the bleed is OK and your lining stays within normal limits then that's OK....
Hurdity x
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Hi am I safe going on this hrt, I have androgenic alopecia and have an appointment at menopause clinic soon and they prescribe utrogestan / estrogel, i kept my hair stable for sometime using minoxodil,use to take angeliq but came of it 4years ago, but now I'm having terrible symptoms getting worse, anxiety bad but dont want my hair to get bad again.
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Hi Westie, the surges can be due to lack of oestrogen. I need 4 pumps of gel and 12 days of utro to stop my anxiety and panic attacks and control my other symptoms and I have a womb and ovaries. 2 pumps is the base dose, I think your levels are not high enough. I suggest that you up the pumps and see what happens. When I get to day 7/8 I start to feel bad on utro...a bit low and tired but I know it will stop soon.
Thanks ladybt28 I think you are right as the two pumps have definitely helped some things- flushes, night sweats etc but not the more troublesome symptoms of anxiety etc. I will try upping the dose and see how I go.
W xx
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Johanna 4185
I've been on estrogel and I have to say did cause me thinning scalp hair but everyone is different but it helped everything else I've just swapped to a patch to try and combat hairloss but I've been shedding more on the estradot patch I've had uterus and ovaries removed so don't have progesterone but everyone thinks u have easier ride when u just take estrogen but believe me u don't cause u have no balance I'm seriously wanting to add progesterone to balance things
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Hiya. Just to say thanks to those who replied for putting my mind at rest about taking enough progesterone. I had a scan last week so I am being monitored.
I havent tried provera. I believe it might not be any better in terms of migraine though.
I'm plowing on with 100. Night 5 and counting !!
I had a migraine so havent been on til now but just seen I had replies so thank you. Xx
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I've been googling around trying to determine if my switch to putting Estrogel on my inner thighs instead of inner forearms is a factor in my fat growth in my thighs. Found this, written by a naturopath, in an article about cellulite:
Premenopausal women with too much estrogen tend to have the pear-shape body type with more weight at the hips. The reason for this comes down to fat, both the type and the amount. Consider that women have almost nine times the amount of alpha receptors for every one beta receptor in their hip and thigh region. When stimulated, alpha receptors cause fat cells to produce fat, while beta receptors breakdown fat. This is also the area with the most estrogen receptors.
I'm going to revert to application on forearms after a two-week break from Estrogel. Will continue Utrogestan three times a week (I had recently reduced it to two times but think that wasn't enough opposition to oestrogen). Will post again if there's any noticeable difference. You never know, someone else might be accumulating more fat on hips and thighs too by applying the gel to inner thighs.
I had been applying estrogel to my thighs and have developed little fat pockets on the inside. I've never had any cellulite there before and I'm not overweight either. Hope this helps. :)
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Quick question: Does anyone get on well with the conti regime of 25 days of 100mg, then 3 days off?
I had a small amount of bleeding yesterday (day 14. utrogestan days 1 - 10) was hoping that would help but I have woken up again with horrific morning dread. I've been reading back through this thread (love this thread!) and I didn't get any of the negative effects people talk about when taking utrogestan.
I guess I just have to wait and see how I settle down on this regime. I'll start a diary and see how this works for three months (which is when next apptmnt is). The regime has been good for me so far. I guess nothing's perfect, it's just trying to work out what the compromises I'll have to make are.
Glad to hear the regime is working for you so far. It's a good sign that you did not experience the negative side effects while taking it that others do. Do update us with your diary experiences and hope all continues to go well :)
Hurdity x
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Hi all
I also developed fat deposits on thighs from estrogel and since swapping to patch 4 days ago the fat deposits haven't gone yet but will they does anyone know ?
Also I wasn't obsorbing the gel very well on my thighs would I do better applying to my arms should I end up going back on the gel as not doing great on patch and have to up to 75 to get rid of flushes and VA is worse hair loss worse. Will I get fat deposits on my arms too ?
How long does it take to see benefit or not in hairloss when swapping estrogen.
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Hi, just to say thanks, seemed to work well for my holiday.....I'm carrying on taking the utrogestan vaginally I think, seems less hassle!
Still not sure if they're helping tbh, but I'm persevering.... actually my hot sweats and flushes have lessened, but nothing else yet!
Thanks 🙂
Hi Winnie1967
I use my pumps of oestrogel in the morning and take my utrogestan vaginally at night. I didn't pay any attention to the patient leaflet! ;) I read about all the ladies experiences on this forum and worked out that lots did it differently - some split doses of oestrogel, some do them all at once, some wait for it to dry others rub it in hard. Doesn't matter just do what works for you.
Yep you are right vaginal utrogestan bypasses the stomach so no need to worry whether its empty or not! Go and enjoy your holiday - use your pumps earlier in the day and the utro vaginally at night....eat drink be merry...have a lovely time!
It will all be perfectly fine! x
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Ohh sammie..really.? Fat deposits on thighs too? Is this common? I was wondering the other day why my inner thighs seemed to have such......and im slim and fit....didbt notice until the other day...one side seems.worse than other. Woulsbt mind if felt amazing but felt nothing but crap since started espec nore so on this gel alone. This weekend has been awful feel like got a virus and ive had a left eyw side nigraine that hasnt gone at all...ive had it weeks. Feel sick today with it. Think im.stopping the gel pronto tomorrow.
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It's interesting everyone else seems to get these symptoms from eastrogen. I only seem to get them from progesterone flu like symptoms, migraine. The shakiness is weird too. Its realy bothering me.
At the weekend my dad noticed and now he thinks I've either got essential tremor which he has, or low blood sugar. My last sugar test was o.k but for some reason the progesterone makes me have these low sugar symptoms. It makes me wonder if the migraine is a direct result of the high progesterone dose as I've been thinking or maybe it's actually low blood sugar triggering the migraine.
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Hi jMargaret
I didn't notice straight away but thought I had lots of little lumps then realised it was fat deposits on my legs and the other thing I noticed was the veins in my legs really popped out I felt ok on the 2 pumps but every now and again got heartburn and bad fatigue couldn't get out of bed and 6 months into taking it I got nausea to and scalp hair had thinned dramatically but not sure if this is estrogel because I've swapped to a patch estradot 75 only been on 4 dayS and hair shedding more but my estrogen levels suggest that I am not obsorbing the gel x but it worked well for VA
I'm not sure if u would get the fat deposits on arms if you were to apply it there ? Have you had any other side effects and what dose do you take and how long have you been on it ?
Do you take progesterone and how is your hair
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Hi sammie..im.peri been on hrt 4 months nearly 5. Stsrted ob alterbate eve 100mg utro and 2 pumps gel (was wrong regime as im peri!!) Felt ok to stsrt but not great then saw no changes and bled most of the time ! Extreme fatigue and toredness and flatness no motivation too. No better at all. Decided to up gel to 3 pumps so did this and in meantime also stopped the utro so that I could try a sequi. Was on gel alone for 3 weeks and felt no better really flat and pms symptoms and most days this dull left eye headache. Decided and on the advise and help of the fabulpus women on here to get a sequo started (and ot wait for my period which i was) so i added 200mg utro vaginally then the bext day came on my period !!! So i stopped the utro and now on gel alone again until 25th when im planning to re add the utrogestan for my 1st sequi experiment ! In meantime been flat...still got this headadhe which at the weekend has made me feel ill! (Unless a virus and because i had period also felt low etc) i have NO clue whats what.x
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Hi jMargaret
How has your hair been on the gel ?
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Hi sammie...truth be told ive veen too scared to really look and evaluate. Pre hrt it was shedding but bloods 3 months apart showed low zinc both times. We did, or so i believe get levels to okay and no more supplments needed. Shwdding seemed to improve. Since being on the hrt, gel, shedding again 😓
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I've been googling around trying to determine if my switch to putting Estrogel on my inner thighs instead of inner forearms is a factor in my fat growth in my thighs. Found this, written by a naturopath, in an article about cellulite:
Premenopausal women with too much estrogen tend to have the pear-shape body type with more weight at the hips. The reason for this comes down to fat, both the type and the amount. Consider that women have almost nine times the amount of alpha receptors for every one beta receptor in their hip and thigh region. When stimulated, alpha receptors cause fat cells to produce fat, while beta receptors breakdown fat. This is also the area with the most estrogen receptors.
I'm going to revert to application on forearms after a two-week break from Estrogel. Will continue Utrogestan three times a week (I had recently reduced it to two times but think that wasn't enough opposition to oestrogen). Will post again if there's any noticeable difference. You never know, someone else might be accumulating more fat on hips and thighs too by applying the gel to inner thighs.
I had been applying estrogel to my thighs and have developed little fat pockets on the inside. I've never had any cellulite there before and I'm not overweight either. Hope this helps. :)
Hi Tracey, I have noticed I have cellulite too on my inner thighs since using estrogel but I also think I never really looked at my inner thighs before the way I do when rubbing the gel in. I've read that as estrogen and progesterone levels drop, so too does muscle tone so perhaps this is what's going on simultaneously. I too never had cellulite before. Hope that helps.
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I'm a bit surprised by the "fat pockets" thing?? Never read about it before. I've been rubbing 4 pumps into my thighs for the last year and luckily my thighs look exactly the same as they have always done? I occasionally rub it into my arms but mainly the thighs get it! It's not on my hips either as I noticed when I started it, I lost my "saddle bags" which was brill.
Maybe I am just lucky, I don't know?? Hardly an exercise freak so has to be just luck :)
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Hi ladybt. I didnt apply my gel today. Not sure if done right thing but just felt so sh** . Any advice?
The cellulite thing..hmm...i dod botoce mine a little and also more prominent spider veins inner thighs...but didnt give much thought as was probably too preoccupied with headache and everything else!!! X
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I'm a bit surprised by the "fat pockets" thing?? Never read about it before. I've been rubbing 4 pumps into my thighs for the last year and luckily my thighs look exactly the same as they have always done? I occasionally rub it into my arms but mainly the thighs get it! It's not on my hips either as I noticed when I started it, I lost my "saddle bags" which was brill.
Maybe I am just lucky, I don't know?? Hardly an exercise freak so has to be just luck :)
Nope neither did I, I weigh 9 stone 2lb and I noticed them the other day whilst wearing shorts. Little round bumps down the inside of each thigh. They were definitely not there before starting HRT.
Margaret how are you feeling ?
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Hi Trace.....still got eye pain headache Same o. And ...havent applied my gel. Naughty or not i dont know but at the moment dont bloody care. Phys, mentally and emotionally drained. Feel a bit angry too almost, like a quiet anger and more so " right, had enough of this now its been over 4 months and ive been consumed. Who even am I anymore? Enoughs enough. Come what may"
So ive 2 options - run upstairs, take off my pants and apply haha..(zzzzzz) or....leave and see how go. X
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Maybe a break from HRT would be a good idea Margaret. Just to see how you actually feel and to find yourself again. I haven't crashed yet so I think I did the right thing coming off it, if only to find out how I actually feel without taking it. Not had any hot flushes today but still having occasional palpitations.
Thinking of you. X
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Tracey and Jmargaret,
Uggghhh, sorry to hear you are suffering right now a lot. Please go easy on yourself because this menopause trip really affects the whole body physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. It's a bit of a crisis time and I really hope you start to see a little a light shining at the end of this tunnel soon. Try to remember it's not "you" or your fault - it's a huge transition that is out of your control right now but with time, it will get better...
Here is an article from Scientific American on cellulite and menopause...I don't mean to depress with this article lol...it's just that these sex hormones that are depleting our bodies have such an enormous impact on many, many functions in our bodies that I think needs to be highlighted so that we go easier on ourselves...all the best x0 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-cellulite-forever/
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Hi Lulu ahh thabks for ur support and kind words...and the artice link. I mist admit though havent given the cellulite any thought as got more pressing symptoms going on...but its an interesting add on eh. Im more worried now ive had....and have (feel awful) a virus and been too hasty in not applying my estrogel this morning.!!!! Didnt feel great on just the gel alone though... x
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Thanks so much Tracey - my feelings also. Xx
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Hi, Ive been on this combo since December last year. For the past 2 months I switched to taking utrogestan daily (100mg) for 21 days and have a 7 day break. Having a bleed as normal during the break. I also use 2 pumps of gel daily in the morning.
I haven't had any sign of a bleed when I did the 7 day break at all. I'm now back on the next cycle of utrogestan.
It feels odd because I have bled quite heavily during all the other pill breaks.
Is this normal?
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The idea of taking utrogestan continuously or nearly continuously is to balance the oestrogen so that you do not bleed and is usually prescribed for post meno women. It is obvious that if you are not bleeding then the lining of the womb is kept thin and there is nothing to shed, Pinkjan4288.
Normally the prescription for utro and gel when it is used not to have a bleed is continuous every day or only a 3 day break. I haven't heard of a 7 day break before? Consultant or GP suggest this?
The other way is a cycle where you take your gel only to day 15 and then start 12 days of utrogestan. After the utrogestan stops after the 12 days you should get a bleed and this way of taking it is designed to make you bleed to shed any womb lining.
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Thanks for your reply.
The prescribing nurse at my Drs surgery suggested it.
I'm now questioning what she said, My memory is so bad. I didn't want to continue taking 2 utrogestan tablets for 14 days because I feel knackered the following day.
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Hi Ladybt28, I noticed you suggest taking the oestrogel only up to day 15, then switching to utrogestan for 12 days.
However I take my 4 pumps everyday of the month, which my GP prescribed and is in the NICE guidelines. I'm assuming this is okay?
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So. I've just read the label on the pack and it does say to take for 25 days out of 28.
I don't know where I got 21 days from!!
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sorry annedenmark you use your oestrogel every day and then add in the Utrogestan for 12 days. I must be more careful how I explain. Apologies ::)
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Ah, thanks for clarifying Ladybt28.. Phew. Not giving my daily estrogel up....
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sorry annedenmark you use your oestrogel every day and then add in the Utrogestan for 12 days. I must be more careful how I explain. Apologies ::)
Hi All,
I too am really confused. I have recently changed to 200 mg prog for 10- 12 days a month - that's a calendar month. i am now wondering if I am doing it wrong too.
Another thing is is that i finished the progesterone 8 days ago and still no withdrawal bleed.
Thank you
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I'm also keen to know the answer to that, Birdy.
I'm post meno but on a sequi regime (studd - 10 days of 100mg, 3 pumps) Last month was my first utrogestan. Was fine for the 10 days but found the withdrawal really horrible. Wonder if a conti regime could work for me. Really scared to try though as I know progesterone builds up and if I find out I can't tolerate that then I could feel awful for ages. I know your question was about 200mg (which I don't know the answer to) but wondered if you had any experience of a 100mg every day regime?
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Do you birdy?. Feel better with 200mg prog a day? Mad eh....how it can be horrid for some bit great for others. Do you think this was what was maybe missing for you - more progesterone? X
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Could any one advise me the ratio of pumps of gel to use which would be similar to Femseven patch sequi since not being able to get these patches now , I'm really not having same affect from gel . I too have 2 pumps of gel and continuous utrogestan - days 1-25 I am post meno libido non existing too . Maybe testosterone is needed the longer your into meno ? I know progesterone can drop just as much
The ratio is so difficult as your messing with hormones all the time to find what suits best 😔 any advise I'm 52 ...
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Hi there. I've recently started on 0.5mg Sandrena gel and 200 Utro. I was feeling better on the Sandrena and then started the Utro on day 15 - now I feel terrible. I'm taking the Utro at night as I thought it would help me sleep but instead I'm getting cortisol rushes and awake all night. I'm more anxious and panicky than before and only on day 7 of the Utro so 5 more days. A menopause specialist told me I'm sensitive to progesterone so should either get a Mirena or go to 100 Utro every day. Has anyone got experience of these options? I'm scared of taking Utro but I'm wondering if future months could be better so to stick with it? This is my first month after all. Thank you for any advice x
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I never got on with Utrogestan, it made me feel really ill. People told me to persevere with it but the side effects never got any better, even though I was only taking it for 7 days. Mirena could be an alternative you could consider x
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Thanks Tracey E. Are you on 100 Utro now? I'm wondering if that would be better. I can't face 200 tonight and wondering if I can just do 100 until day 12. x
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Morning ladies
Please advice
I was on estrogel 2 pumps and recently 5 days ago change to estradot patch 75 as I wasn't obsorbing the gel well and tried to increase to 3 pumps but felt it elevated my aniexty, I don't need progesterone as hysterectomy and no ovaries all bloods fine . I rubbed the gel on inner thighs my main reason for stopping the gel was hair thinning bloated constipation and fatigue ! But on the estradot all is great but still shedding hair intact more and last day or so been having a glaze over my eyes which happened before on elleste solo patch and vision went blurry I'm wondering now though if I jumped the gun a bit and should of persevered with 3 pumps and maybe tried on my arms rather then thighs for less bloated ness and I also experienced fat deposits on my legs where I rubbed the gel but don't want this on my arms rather it on my legs. other then the patch effecting my eyes I feel fine on it although I think it may have triggered the alopecia on the nape of my neck as that's the bulk of my hair loss and receding hairline behind my ears .
What do I do I'm in a pickle want to give up but I'm only 40 and need hrt
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Hi SammieJane - how long did you use the gel for before you gave up?
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Ladybt28
I was on the gel for 7 months but three months into it my estrogen level was 195 and then 6 months went to 104 but I remained on 2 pumps as couldn't handle the three but the patch my hair is shedding more is this due to more of surge in hormone ?
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Thanks Tracey E. Are you on 100 Utro now? I'm wondering if that would be better. I can't face 200 tonight and wondering if I can just do 100 until day 12. x
I'm post menpause I was so only on the 100mg of Utrogestan. I'm not taking any HRT at the moment. Just waiting to see if my hormones settle down.
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Hi. I've been using Oestrogel 3 pumps & 100mg Utrogestan daily (orally) for a few months. However, as I continue to feel tired and lethargic with bad brain fog, wanted to try only using Utrogestan for 12 days (200mg vaginally) and put up with a bleed. I'm on day 4 of this regime and experiencing really bad PMS symptoms, physical & emotional. Also woke up with a night sweat last night which hasn't happened in ages. I can't stand this for another 8 days but feel I have no choice. Getting through work today has been extremely challenging too. I'm 56 and post menopausal by the way.
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PMB63 - As you have only just changed you will probably find that there are some side effects. For the first 2 months of using utrogestan on a cycle I had cramping and PMT like symptoms but by month 3 and thereafter it settled. I still get depressed and a bit teary by days 7-8 but I know that it is going to go away. I don't have many alternatives but by and large it is a regime that has pretty much given me my life back.
I am post meno and aged 57. I am on 4 pumps of gel and 12 days of utro 200mg vaginally. The whole regime took 6 months to get rid of pretty much all my symptoms and believe me I had a lot. Its easier to say what I didn't have ::) The first 3 months were the worst and it seemed to get a little worse but then got a whole load better. I was given testosterone after 4 months and that made a considerable difference, especially to fatigue and brain fog. Are you on testosterone?
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Hi ladybt28
Where do you rub the 4 pumps of gel and is this all at once or do you wait for 2 pumps to dry before applying another 2
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Thank you for your comments Ladybt28. That's giving me hope that things may improve in time. As you say it's early days still. I don't take any Testosterone by the way. When do you apply your Oestrogel? I use mine in the evening after my bath, but I now wonder if that's not a good idea as it may hinder absorption. Should I perhaps try applying it in the mornings, as I love my evening baths. Thank you again for your advice. It's very much appreciated xx
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All 4 pumps get slapped on my thighs in the morning - no pfaffing about - don't wait for it to dry, just rub it in and I'm done! I have always done it like that. My utrogestan on the 12 days is done at night vaginally. I was quite surprised at how bad the cramps were on the first 2 months lessened by month 3. I just took some paracetamol on months 3 and then they just went away. Everyone is different and I know from reading the forum that it can take a while for things to settle but people get worried and scared because they don't really know how their body will react or really what to expectand they just stop or change and then have to start all over. Like I said, it took a total of 7 months to feel ok more than 5 days in a row.
Personally I think the longer the body is "out of wack" sometimes the longer the hrt takes to settle. It's just not the kind of thing that works really quickly to an optimum level - the body has to adjust and settle and bearing in mind the whole thing is based on a monthly cycle then that could take 3/4 or 5 months. I mean that is only 3/4 or 5 times using utrogestan but when you say 3/4/5 months it sounds like ages but its only 2/4/5 x 12 days. xx
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Ohhh Ladybt.....i hope I havent been too hasty in stopping my gel :'( but as you may recall Ive just.not felt great.not a smidge. What you said in prior post though about if hormones have been oit of whack for so long (i truly think mine have) that it can take longer to get them settled. Ohhh! I just couldnt carry on as was...but I do know i will (or hope).benefit sometime, someday. I just felt too lost and never felt as out of my depth as I have the last few months. I hope I havent unravelled too much 'good' work of taking estrogen the last 4 months espec if my body really needed it but nothing has felt a bit good so all hope was lost! Im.an intelligent gal but seemed the more i tried to understand it and try to figure it out - the why maybes and the this is whats happening for now, etc'- the more blurred it felt and the more seperated I felt from myself. That was hard for someone rather in tune with their body 'before' (hence me knowing something was amiss and i poss needed estrogen or testosterone etc and hence my starting hrt with the gel and utro to start) so i could only.stop.in order to catch my breath again and find my feet again (not that they were firmly down anyway !!). Oh well, is what is for now, gp apt next week where Ill fill her in, and i may ask for some bloods all areas (i know not always reliable but still).and then..if I feel same, I may make an appt with dr louisa newson!
I really feel for you all, and with you all. Not sure what we would do without this forum!! X
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Hi ladies
Please can I have advice
I just swapped 5 days ago from 2 pumps of gel to estradot patch75 and my hair is now shedding even more I run my fingers through it and strands come out it's worse then when I was on the gel is this normal when changing ? Or is it the higher estrogen being on a patch ?
I tried the estradot 50 but didn't get the flushes at bay
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Birdy
Yes thyroid tested and all other bloods normal my hair has been shedding for 10 months since November last year since starting hrt ! It had slowed after 6 months on the gel but now on the patch has got worse I wondered if it's cause I've shot up from 2 pumps to a 75 patch
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Yes already seen menopause specialist and blood work last tested in May and all fine so must be low estrogen
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Did the meno specialist confirm this samie - ie low estrogen? If so did they say poss the reason for hair loss? Tru not to stress too much - easier said than done - we ALL know that. Its a horrible situation isnt it and I feel yoir fears and concerns. We all do. Hopefully of low estro then levels will build and balance and it may settle. Sorry cant advise or give any real good comments but im also on the middle of this minefield! X
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Hi, nice to hear someone has same questions as me! I am 63 and went to Meno clinic near me last Monday after my GP said no.....so have also just started (day 6 today) on 2 pumps of Estrogel and Urogestan 100mg (orally) every night. This seems to be a standard dose and how do you know if it suits you and how long do you give it??
I have not had HRT since 2012 (2 years after periods stopped) when I was on Indivina for a year and it was great.... then the GP at the time said I had to come off it, as shouldn't be on it for long. Wish I'd have stayed on it for longer knowing what I know now and all the nasty symptoms that have never gone away. One of the unlucky ones... :'(
BUT my hot flushes seem to have got worse since I started the new regime and feel a bit weird, dizzy and tired with aches in pelvic floor and tender labia, also palpitations. Some other nice ladies on here have suggested to give it 3 months and can take the Urogestan internally? The Dr at the Meno clinic never mentioned that?
I am hoping for a miracle when I can get my joie de vivre back!!
Hope you find it helps you and good luck with it!
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Julia dizzy
Hi there I was on the estrogel 2 pumps for 7 months and I too suffered pelvic floor pain swollen labia it felt more discharge and generally rubbish thinning scalp hair I have now swapped to estradot 75 patch so seeing how that goes but at the moment suffering headaches and chills and hair still shedding I've had to move the patch from abdomen to buttocks as gave me pelvic pain x I've not taken utrogestan as have had hysterectomy although if it balances things will take it
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I need advice regarding a period that has started (after a completely missed breakthrough bleed) 7 days into my utrogestan phase. Do I stop the tablets and allow the period to properly kick in or do I continue the Progesterone as normal and put up with bleeding (lightly) until the next break?
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Hi Pinkjan you just keep taking the Utrogestan regardless of bleeding and keep taking it as planned x
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Thank you Dotty x
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Hi stellajane
Do u just take estrogen ? What estrogen do u take or what's your regime ?
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Hi Guys....
I was hoping I could ask your advice...
I'm taking Utrogestan 100 mg (oral capsules) and they really aren't agreeing with me. I feel really dizzy, spaced out, headaches...
I've read on this forum that you get less side effects if you take the tablets vaginally.
Looking at the box, it mentions that the soft capsules are for oral use only. Made by Besins healthcare. White box, blue design - with black writing. Can these capsules also be used vaginally??
I'm Peri just now. Started estrogel on 29/7/2019 and taking Utrogestan 100mg (oral tablets) daily from days 15 - 26 (of each 28 day cycle).
Many thanks xx
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Yep you can use them vaginally. For some reasons in the UK they are not "licensed" to be used that way but if you get them abroad then the besins leaflet explains how to use them vaginally. I don't know why it is no the same in the uk
I use them vaginally and you use them in just the same way on the same dose...basically you push up the little capsules as far as they will go instead of swallowing them. Way less side effects. Some GP's haven't heard of doing it that way and freak out but my consultant is fine with it and so is my GP now I explained to her! Great isn't it having to educate our GP's who should know better :-X
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Am on 1 pump of oestrogel, currently on day 7 of my 12 days of Utrogestan 100mg, use every other month, try to push it as long as possible, the reason being, I have had chronic insomnia since starting the tablets, feeling jittery, palpitations, stomach bloated as if 6 months preggers... >:(
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Am on 1 pump of oestrogel, currently on day 7 of my 12 days of Utrogestan 100mg, use every other month, try to push it as long as possible, the reason being, I have had chronic insomnia since starting the tablets, feeling jittery, palpitations, stomach bloated as if 6 months preggers... >:(
Hi Cassie, I had the exactly same symptons only took Utrogestan for 7 days every month.. :(
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Did you get a good enough bleed on 7 days and does it keep your lining thin, would love to reduce to 7 from 12.
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Yes, a normal period Cassie. Never had a scan so I don't no about the womb thickness.
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I spoke to my GP last week because I was feeling really exhausted all the time - more than without hrt perhaps? - I asked her about doing a few days utro rather than taking it daily but she wasn't sure about that and wanted to read up about it before saying yes. So she suggested I increase the Oestrogel to two pumps instead, for the time being. I don't feel much more energetic and woke up with a terrible headache, nausea, upset stomach and I am feeling angry and low. I am wondering if this could be due to the extra pump of estrogel or is 5 days too soon to have made such a difference?
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Hi, when I upped my gel to two pumps I felt the effects within a few days. Palpitations, acid reflux and an upset tummy being my main side effects but also being very irritable. It didn't settle with me so I had to stop using the Estrogel. I had the same side effects with the patches. :(
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Hi, when I upped my gel to two pumps I felt the effects within a few days. Palpitations, acid reflux and an upset tummy being my main side effects but also being very irritable. It didn't settle with me so I had to stop using the Estrogel. I had the same side effects with the patches. :(
Ah thanks, I will go back to one pump then, I feel awful, weepy, I feel like I am hating everyone today (recently?), snapped at my husband for a very trivial thing yesterday and it's not something I normally do. I am feeling very lost and scared right now, it's crazy how hormones can affect us so much. I wasn't feeling that bad on one pump so it might get better once I go back to one. I have acid reflux too, no palpitations though.
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I'm with Birdy - 5 days is way too soon. My own opinion from experience and reading a lot here is here is a period where you incease doses when you start and things can get worse rather than better whilst the period of adjustment is going on...it's almost like you have to get "over the hump" before you feel the benefit which seems to creep up on you without you noticing it.
I'm definitely convinced that hrt response is a slow burn and hrt are not the kind of chemicals which produce an immediate "good" response. It took me 7 months "to feel better" and there are still rough days but by and large I am a million times better than I was. Mine worked out that I started to get good days like maybe 2 in a row and then some more bad ones before I woke up one day and realised I had felt relatively well for a whole week. That's not to say that when you start out the next week will be the same. Like I said I'm one year in on the right hrt for me after 3 years of trying to find out what worked an then that took 7 months to settle down to a proper "feel ok" pattern. x I'm on 4 pumps and the GP started me on 2. I was started on continuous progesterone but now use it on a cycle because I found I couldn't do continuous. You have to find what works for you no one can tell you nor can you guess how you will react over a 6 month period. x
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Hey Birdy LadyBt
It's good to have different inputs I really am new to this so I really have no idea. All I know is that aside from the flooring fatigue, I did feel better on one pump and suddenly I feel terrible, so that's why I wondered if the extra pump could cause the symptoms. I didn't know if it can or cannot make a difference so quickly. so maybe I should step down to 1 and a half pump for awhile? I went from 1 to 2 so maybe I am sensitive to it? Given how incredibly low I feel today, I don't think I could ride this hump for very long - it is very very bad.
Sorry if I sound oversensitive, I just feel really depressed today and I can't cope with anything at all :(
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Birdy yes I use utrogestan 100mg vaginally, every day. I have fibromyalgia so I am very fatigued at the best of times, menopause didn't help at all, but it seems that utro has taken the fatigue to a whole new level where I can't function. I asked the menopause doctor at my practice if I could try utro on a cycle instead but she is not familiar with that treatment for women who are well into menopause, she said introducing a bleed would be unnatural. Anyway she said she would look into it and get back to me, but in the meantime just to increase to two pumps oestrogel until she gets an answer. I have read that progesterone can be a problem for a lot of women, so I am at a bit of a loss. I started feeling really pissy yesterday, but I am a complete wreck this morning.
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So I am post meno at 57 and I can't take progesterone continuously so I take it on a cycle. Continuous progesterone makes me depressed, irritated, and monumentally tired and after 2 weeks downright suicidal, so I don't take it that way. I use utrogestan vaginally to minimise things like stomach issues, reflux and it being processed by through the stomach and the liver. I take it for 12 days 200mg but when I get to day 8 I start to feel down and bit tired, but I can manage because I know it is going to stop. I found out what to expect after about 6 cycles so now I don't worry.
Yes, it's "unnatural" to bleed at 57 but it could also be considered "unnatural" to take hrt and put your hormones back into your body so you don't feel crap everyday >:( honestly some doctors... don't they just spout unnecessary nonsense. :-X If you are having absolutely horrendous symptoms with menopause and it is affecting your quality of life then you just do what is necessary to get some of that quality back, we that's my theory anyway. Just because she doesn't have a clue....you shouldn't have to suffer.
I have a diagnosis of fibro too but my aches pains fatigue and soreness were off the scale until I got onto the right hrt and the right regime. Now they are much more under control. The massive drop in oestrogen cause the fibro symptoms to become much much worse. In fact the testosterone I got given after 6 months gave me my life back....I actually managed to do some decorating in the house without having to go to bed for a week! You will see from some of my previous posts on the forum that that is the first time in 10 years I have done anything relatively productive! In fact I have had only a couple of "duvet days" in the last 6 months instead of every week!
The thing is that often our hormones are getting lower and lower as we move through peri and into meno and then we need to kick start them again before we "pick up" and the body has to adjust to having them again which takes a while.
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So I am post meno at 57 and I can't take progesterone continuously so I take it on a cycle. Continuous progesterone makes me depressed, irritated, and monumentally tired and after 2 weeks downright suicidal, so I don't take it that way. I use utrogestan vaginally to minimise things like stomach issues, reflux and it being processed by through the stomach and the liver. I take it for 12 days 200mg but when I get to day 8 I start to feel down and bit tired, but I can manage because I know it is going to stop. I found out what to expect after about 6 cycles so now I don't worry.
Yes that's what I've read about, the fatigue and how it affects so many women, I am also 57, and if I had a choice of having a bleed or feeling like this all the time, I think I know which I would choose! And I think that once you know how your body responds and reacts, you know what to expect, it's not as daunting as when you have not got a clue.
Yes, it's "unnatural" to bleed at 57 but it could also be considered "unnatural" to take hrt and put your hormones back into your body so you don't feel crap everyday >:(
Exactly. That! It didn't make much sense. The only natural way to deal with menopause would be to just go without any treatment.
I have a diagnosis of fibro too but my aches pains fatigue and soreness were off the scale until I got onto the right hrt and the right regime. Now they are much more under control. The massive drop in oestrogen cause the fibro symptoms to become much much worse. In fact the testosterone I got given after 6 months gave me my life back....I actually managed to do some decorating in the house without having to go to bed for a week! You will see from some of my previous posts on the forum that that is the first time in 10 years I have done anything relatively productive! In fact I have had only a couple of "duvet days" in the last 6 months instead of every week!
I was diagnosed awhile back but I know I've had it for longer than that - since my 20s. I do work but I am self employed so work at my own pace which is a massive bonus. I wouldn't be able to work for someone else, I am far too unreliable due to my health, I think you know what I mean. I have been more sedentary in the past year or so though, much less energy, less motivation, more anxiety that was so intense it froze me on the spot for hours on end where I could not move. I have managed to do no work today. So today is a partial duvet day. Sounds like testosterone is working really well for you.
If things don't settle and are too unbearable I think I will ask to be referred to the menopause clinic or I will just self-refer to a private consultant. I am feeling at a loss. If all I had to deal with was the hot flashes, I would carry on as I did before, but the emotional, psychological and physical upheavals are just a little much for me to cope with at the moment. All I've managed to do today is cry.
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I know the feelings only too well! Lots of tears and duvet days, feeling lost and scared and downright hopeless.
It's really rubbish and scary when you don't know what's going on. I had a long battle with depression about 20 years ago, and it was so hard, I eventually came through the other side after several years, so I am terrified of getting back to that point :-\
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So same here coldlittleheart - when I was 26 the GP told me I had ME (then called yuppie flu!) and said there was nothing to be done about it. Depression started when periods started...always thought that interesting only no one else seemed that bothered!
so it all goes way back. I too am self-employed and work from home primarily for the last 30 years so I could sort out my health and work when I wanted and when I could. No one would have had me to work for them either!!
When I got to peri then it got even worse but I didn't know why or what it was all about, but after 10 years of messing about, turns out the last 10 years of absolute hell were down to hormones and looking back I reckon a lot of the stuff prior has something to do with hormones too! I am now better than I have been for at least 15 years or more! 4 days of feeling a bit rough is small beer and I had to work it all out for myself. I have to say there is no doctor in the world who is going to stop me from doing what I have been doing even if they thought it was dangerous (them doctors who know nothing often spout the Cancer word! - mainly in ignorance!) off licence or I could do myself some damage...well I know it's not dangerous from my research and I'd rather have a short life which was a life than no life at all!
Sorry I go on a bit of a rant about these types of things but its our choice to make and if they are young women doctors I often wonder whether when they get to peri etc whether they will still be spouting the same thing or whether they will be scouring this forum in order to find some solution and hope! xx
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I totally understand. I'm sort of in the thick of it now. I started using mirtazapine roughly three weeks ago.
I feel for you, it's really difficult to go through, I hope it helps you. I am more worried now than I used to be about depression because I don't tolerate any antidepressants, so that would leave me up the creek without a paddle.
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Gave up all pain meds and AD's 4 years ago after 40 years! GP has wanted me back on them but I won't. They just made me numb. When I was really bad a Christmas I was given sertraline but only took 2 weeks worth and then ditched them as all the side effects from AD's were back. Bad time passed so now I know that the depression wont come back and stay either which really helps psychologically. Don't anyone think I am suggesting for one minute it is mind over matter because I know from my life it's not, its just that I think that if my hormones were better balanced when I was younger even when I was ovulating, I reckon I wouldn't have had the levels of problems that I had. Hindsight as they say..is a wonderful thing ::)
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Ladybt you sound just like me! I had fibro (or as they said back then, ME) in my late teens, early 20s, it's a bit vague. And I too had depression since then, panic and anxiety disorders since 14 yo. Peri was really bad too, I had to stay in bed for the first day sometimes 2 of my period, I was a wreck emotionally. Then it kind of calmed down after my last period. Then all I got was a constant feeling of dread and background anxiety that would just flare up at the smallest little thing. Or for no reason at all. The hot flashes started, that was unpleasant, but hey, if that's all I had to deal with, I'd be ok with that. But in the past couple of years, I have been feeling crazy. Really obsessing over things that might have upset someone, things those people most likely weren't even aware of. And I was tired, mor than usual, all the time. So I spoke to my GP and that's when she put me on kliovance which helped but my hair started shedding, a LOT. That killed all the benefits I had started to gain from hrt. She switched me to femoston and that did nothing for me. hair was still shedding. I know you mentioned hair loss too in another of my threads, but this wasn't TE I am pretty sure it wasn't that. It was too coincidental. That it happened again, after a few weeks of taking progynova, before I switched to oestrogel. But that has maybe settled a little.
I think that like us, too many doctors have no real idea, even if they have a special interest. I think maybe it is so complex with everyone being so different, they would need special training and they are spread thin these days with shortages. I can't really put them blame on them too much, it's just a shame that people have to suffer because of shortages and cuts. The two female GPs I've dealt with are young, but sympathetic. We'll see what she comes up with re utro.
About pain meds, I have given those up a fews years back, I only use OTC painkillers now and manage my pain the best I can. Only one painkiller was working for me, it was a private prescription and I couldn't afford to keep going for private reviews every 3 months and then the cost of the meds themselves. Then it turned out that the product was recalled or withdrawn or something as it wasn't suitable for long term use. As for ADs, as I said in my reply to Birdy, I don't tolerate any of them anymore. I have given them up about 15 years ago, my GP at the time laughed when I told him I was coming off seroxat. He said Ha! Good luck with that! You'll be back begging for a repeat before you know it! Arsehole.
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I totally understand. I'm sort of in the thick of it now. I started using mirtazapine roughly three weeks ago.
I feel for you, it's really difficult to go through, I hope it helps you. I am more worried now than I used to be about depression because I don't tolerate any antidepressants, so that would leave me up the creek without a paddle.
If you panic, you know it'll make things worse. If you are anything like me, you risk becoming hyper vigilant to every day you aren't 100 per cent. It honestly sounds to me like you are oestrogen depleted, so have some faith that the gel will start to make a difference soon. X
I know what you mean, I meant I am concerned about getting depression, I am generally not worried about it, but days like today scare me because they feel way too familiar and I wouldn't have anything to fall back on.
I hope the oestrogel will help eventually.
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Why dont you try taking it for 12 days a month,vaginally, so many women use it cyclically! My gynae has ladies in their 70s using it like this, I could never take it daily, I am suffering through 12 days as we speak, not having much sleep and feeling jittery, other ladies react the opposite way and feel sleepy and exhausted, its not the best of meds but unfortunately necessary if using oestrogen.
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Hello,
I'm just about to start (this coming Monday) on estrogel and utragestan HRT and thought I'd start a support group thread for anyone else on the same HRT to compare and contrast and discuss any problems/positives.
I think I remember ellie66 saying she'd be up for it - anyone else?
I'm hil - aged 47 and have had peri-menopause symptoms for the last 4 years and haven't had a period since beginning of October. I'm having hot flushes and bad night sweats which have affected by sleep so I'm hoping those will be helped.
hil x
Hi Hil,
I was just wondering how you are getting on with Oestrogel and Utrogestan having started thread quite a while ago?
Thanks x
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I saw a nurse today for a smear test. She asked if I'd had all my kids by c section because my cervix is so small. I had 2 kids vaginally. I keep getting urine infections and sex needs lots of lube now.
I'm on 2 pumps of Oestrogen daily.
I take utrogestan 100mg for 25 days.
Bleeding lightly every day at the moment.
I'm seeing the nurse practitioner tomorrow. I want to ask for some Vagifem I think.
Is this a good idea?
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Hi
After a bumpy start I am now 6 months into the Estrogel and Utrogestan (vaginally) regime - and it has been life changing. Most symptoms had disappeared or were much improved but last week the night sweats/insomnia returned with a vengeance and this week I'm getting waves of heat from my chest upwards during the day. My guess is that I need to increase from 2 to 3/4 pumps of Estrogel?? Any advice/experience would be really helpful. Also, interested to know how many pump packs you are all getting per prescription? My GP will only prescribe one on repeat.
Thanks
JoJo
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I am on 4 pumps of gel and I am getting 4 packs on repeat up until the last one which was only 3. interestingly enough I have always had the Besins re-packaged gel oestrodose and this time with the 3 it was oestrogel itself direct from Besins. That's a new development for me. Wonder if hrt shortages are now moving to gel?
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My hot flushes had returned on HRT however since I've stopped taking it they've gone. So upping my Estrogel dose made my symptons worse, plus caused a number of awful side effects :(
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Why dont you try taking it for 12 days a month,vaginally, so many women use it cyclically! My gynae has ladies in their 70s using it like this, I could never take it daily, I am suffering through 12 days as we speak, not having much sleep and feeling jittery, other ladies react the opposite way and feel sleepy and exhausted, its not the best of meds but unfortunately necessary if using oestrogen.
Hey Cassie, I heard back from the doctor, she spoke to the menopause clinic consultant and she said that using utro every two months might not offer enough endometrial protection but if I want to try 200mg 10-12 days a month then I can do that.
To those of you who are sensitive to progesterone (I think I am, doctor doesn't but she has only spoken to me once on the phone) have you found that 200mg affects you a lot more than the 100mg did? I am a little wary of the side effects the 200mg might cause, it is putting me off a bit.
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Tracey E, I can't work out why your flushes would worsen with more oestrogen but diminish on less. It is the complete opposite of the norm.
Have you ever had your SHBG levels looked at? Did you every use testosterone?
No Birdy I haven't, I've never had tetesterone was waiting for the Estrogen and progesterone to settle first. Which it never did.
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Hi Tracey e
Have u now come off everything ?
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Hi Tracey e
Have u now come off everything ?
Hi Sammie, yes I have..
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Tracey E, sorry to go on but if I were you i'd Look into the SHBG thing. Tc might help with this too, as will Hurdity no doubt.
Because you have reacted so atypically it might be worth a shot. X
Hi Birdy, thanks I'll take a look. :)
I don't have any of these issues though,
Excess body and facial hair growth
Deepening of voice
Menstrual irregularities
Acne
Weight gain
Fertility problems
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200mg of utrogestan affected me much more severely than the 100 did. It was very noticeable and after about 9 days I dropped back to 100.
The withdrawal was more intense and diffficult too. Hate it!
That's what I figured, doctor also said something about the bleeding pattern "not always being brilliant" with utro. I am going to have to think about this, I am not sure I want to have more intense utrogestan side effects, I might just give it some time on continual and see if it settles and if I am actually gaining benefits from HRT versus side effects or if I should discontinue. I will see how things go in the next little while. My hair has started shedding quite a lot more too, I am not happy with that.
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Hi ladies
As you all know and for those of you who don't I'm having a rubbish time with hrt I'm only 40 no ovaries or uterus and take 2 pumps estrogel no progesterone or testosterone at the moment !
Blood work all fine !
So I've been experiencing exessive sweating lately in groin and armpits and thought it was due to low estrogen so up the gel to 2.5 pumps which made it worse more flushes more hairloss more sweating and my mood irratic!
I went to my GP as a lady mentioned that she perscribed anti depressants for exessive sweating and so I thought well the GP has mentioned before about anti depressants for my mood level so I went to get them thinking kill 2 birds with one stone , no such luck as my GP wouldn't perscribe them as she said they can cause sweating which would make your situation worse ! However here is the
thing I understand my body is different from my 20s and 30s although had my op at 35 now 40 and I really want to go on the contraceptive pill as I had no issues on that yet hrt seem to have giving me a whole host of side effects and issues but I know for my age no HRT is also an issue but I also suffered in my past with depression for 10 years and took prozac fluoxetine with no problems no hairloss from it or sweating so I'm wondering maybe if u went back in the pill or those anti depressants my body may well recognize them better then it seems to be doing with hrt !
My recent estrogen levels revealed that I'm not absorbing the gel well and they want me to increase to 3 pumps ! But if then makes side effects worse breast pain constipatio. Hairloss no sleep irratic mood depression aniexty
I had tried everol patch 50 wouldn't stick
I had tried estradot patch 75 as 50 wasn't enough as had flushes but maybe it was enough but gave me flashes as the more gel I have the more flushes I get but the estradot patch made hairloss worse and boobs mega sore crying kind of sore I don't know what to do I keep trying every hrt or just sack it and go on the pill ! I think estradiol is causing my hairloss and the gel has triggered diffuse alopecia I reckon we can feel it activate on my hairline around my back of ears and nape of neck !
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100mg x 12 days has always kept my lining nice and thin, I dont think you should stress coldlittleheart, are you able to have access to have a scan once a year or so? I tried 200mg for 12 days it was the worst ever, apart from chronic tinnitus I just knew it was too heavy, my body reacted badly. Have been using 100mg x 12 days every 8 weeks for years and years, some ladies here only use it for 7 days a month, if you have a regular scan, you should be fine.
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Sorry Cassie what is you oestrogen dose?
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1 pump a day ;)
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100mg x 12 days has always kept my lining nice and thin, I dont think you should stress coldlittleheart, are you able to have access to have a scan once a year or so? I tried 200mg for 12 days it was the worst ever, apart from chronic tinnitus I just knew it was too heavy, my body reacted badly. Have been using 100mg x 12 days every 8 weeks for years and years, some ladies here only use it for 7 days a month, if you have a regular scan, you should be fine.
Thanks Cassie, I will see if there are private scan facilities in my area, I live in a small town in a rural area, so we might not have that here. Unless my GP doesn't object to sending me for one. Do you know what the doctor might have meant by "the bleeding pattern is not always being brilliant with utrogestan"? I think I will make an appointment and see what she has to say, either that or she can send me to the menopause clinic.
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I use 200mg for 12 days and have never dropped to 100mg because I have to use 4 pumps of gel which is considered quite high.
100mg with 1 or 2 pumps believe is considered fine but I also believe the more oestrogen you need to use, the more utrogesten you need to counter it, as the utrogestan does not remain in the body or is as powerful as some other progesterones. I don't think I have explained that bit very well, Hurdity explains how progesterone is processed and the balance much better than me ::) :-X
that is probably why the GP said "the bleeding pattern with Utro may not always be brilliant". I've never had a problem, always regular and a good bleed but I'm pretty sure if I dropped to 100mg only, against 4 pumps of gell, it probably would be. xx Hope you are catching my drift...my explanations seem to be a bit all over the place today :-\
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I use 200mg for 12 days and have never dropped to 100mg because I have to use 4 pumps of gel which is considered quite high.
100mg with 1 or 2 pumps believe is considered fine but I also believe the more oestrogen you need to use, the more utrogesten you need to counter it, as the utrogestan does not remain in the body or is as powerful as some other progesterones. I don't think I have explained that bit very well, Hurdity explains how progesterone is processed and the balance much better than me ::) :-X
that is probably why the GP said "the bleeding pattern with Utro may not always be brilliant". I've never had a problem, always regular and a good bleed but I'm pretty sure if I dropped to 100mg only, against 4 pumps of gell, it probably would be. xx Hope you are catching my drift...my explanations seem to be a bit all over the place today :-\
Nah - you're absolutely fine Ladybt :)
Hurdity x
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Hi there. Quick question. I'm on 0.5mg Sandrena and was on 200mg Utro but was so I'll I stopped taking it after 7 days. The GP wants me to try 100mg for the month with a four day break. He can't prescribe a pessary but I understand they're better tolerated (if you're prog intolerant). Can I use the 100mg capsules I've already got but which aren't for vag use? Any other help for prog intolerance? Since stopping the Utro I've been a bit better but there are times when I can't sleep and I'm incredibly anxious most of the time. Wondering if this is the right approach for me. Thank you.
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Hi Birdy - my bleeds are like clockwork like Stellajane, 4 days after stopping my progesterone and they last 3 days. I don't get much warning no brown staining to start, my insides just decide to fall out! ;D ??? day 1 and 2 like a normal period which for me would probably be considered heavy ish, not unlike my normal periods and then on the 3rd day, it just tails off with less and less. Sometimes I would use panty liner on day 4 but mid-day we're done!
Lotielotlots - you can use the utrogestan capsules that you take orally vaginally instead. Same ones you swallow you just push them up inside as far as they will go. There is no difference in the capsules any of us use vaginally than the one's that some of us swallow! Less side effects vaginally.
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Thanks Ladybt, stellajane, I'll keep that in mind. I am still on a low dose estrogel so I should probably be ok with 100mg.
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Hi Birdy - my bleeds are like clockwork like Stellajane, 4 days after stopping my progesterone and they last 3 days. I don't get much warning no brown staining to start, my insides just decide to fall out! ;D ??? day 1 and 2 like a normal period which for me would probably be considered heavy ish, not unlike my normal periods and then on the 3rd day, it just tails off with less and less. Sometimes I would use panty liner on day 4 but mid-day we're done!
Lotielotlots - you can use the utrogestan capsules that you take orally vaginally instead. Same ones you swallow you just push them up inside as far as they will go. There is no difference in the capsules any of us use vaginally than the one's that some of us swallow! Less side effects vaginally.
Thank you so much. I'm feeling so flat and anxious just on the Sandrena so wondering if the Utro would give me a bleed and some relief!
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I cant fathom the shakiness I feel on utrogestan. Day 1 and it's already started this morning last month I took vaginally but I found it made no difference to the side effects.
X
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Could it be affecting my insulin levels?
.if so it probably wont help that I cant eat. I had hideous cluster in the night in the past I got classic migraine but have very occasionally had clusters so I was diagnosed with mixed migraine but I havent had a cluster for years. .
it woke me up last night iand and I was sick. It feels like your having an aneurysm. It's awful and my sight even goes for a few seconds.
I can feel the onset of a more classic migraine coming today. I'm too nauseas to eat.
I dont know how I'm even going to make it to 7 days like this. It gets worse each month.
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Joaniepat
Hi Joanie was it yourself I spoke to recently about moving from gel to the estradot patch as you weren't absorbing the gel well ?
What I wanted to know was you mentioned you were on testosterone even though your estrogen levels were low on the gel were they still low when you swapped to the patch ? As you mentioned you obsorbed better on the patch and your hair shedding stopped after about 8 weeks , just wondered because I'm at GP Tuesday and want testosterone but my estrogen is not yet at optimal levels but I can't function no more like this I have zero energy no libido effecting my relationship ! All my bloods are fine so I know it's not that effecting my fatigue , but I'm concerned if I add testosterone whilst not having optimal levels of estrogen would this make hairloss worse
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Joaniepat
Hi Joanie was it yourself I spoke to recently about moving from gel to the estradot patch as you weren't absorbing the gel well ?
What I wanted to know was you mentioned you were on testosterone even though your estrogen levels were low on the gel were they still low when you swapped to the patch ? As you mentioned you obsorbed better on the patch and your hair shedding stopped after about 8 weeks , just wondered because I'm at GP Tuesday and want testosterone but my estrogen is not yet at optimal levels but I can't function no more like this I have zero energy no libido effecting my relationship ! All my bloods are fine so I know it's not that effecting my fatigue , but I'm concerned if I add testosterone whilst not having optimal levels of estrogen would this make hairloss worse
Hi SJ,
Yes, E levels still low when I swapped from gel to patch. It was the very reason why I swapped to patch. I hope I understood your question correctly.
JP x
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Thanks birdy. I think it is affecting my blood sugar. The shakiness definitely only happens on utro and i guess waking up with it but then not eating cos of migraine doesnt help with getting it back in balance.
I've hung on for my c and w appointment but whatever happens this will be my last month on utro. Back to back migraines not liveable with. :(
Xx
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Hi Joanie
If my levels are low of estrogen could adding testosterone make hairloss worse ?
You mention u had testosterone whilst on the gel with low e levels was your hair loss worse adding in testosterone?
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Tc I also get very shaky on it, feel as if I have had way too much caffeine.
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Hi Joanie
If my levels are low of estrogen could adding testosterone make hairloss worse ?
You mention u had testosterone whilst on the gel with low e levels was your hair loss worse adding in testosterone?
No SJ, it didn't seem to get any worse. Shedding stopped when I got my E levels up.
JP x
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Tc I also get very shaky on it, feel as if I have had way too much caffeine.
Cassie. Yes. I wonder why it does that. I actually feel shivers shaky. I spend the whole time on it either with a migraine or feeling like I've got flu
Birdy I think I'm going to have to stop it today . But I think I will have to take my patches off if I do
Xxx
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Hi Joanie
Thanks again for all your support and advice .
I'm at my gp Tuesday and going to get testosterone hopefully I'll try it first with the gel till I see menopause in November and then if e levels are still low then I'll have to swap back to the patch x the only thing I'm finding with gel besides hair loss is fatigue I feel drowsy all the time foggy headed I didn't have this on the patch I felt more alert . If all this fails then it's contraceptive pill or nothing ! Just to confirm u don't have progesterone do you. ?
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No SJ, no progesterone for me.
JP x
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Birdy. Just the worry over my high dose patches realy. Doesnt help that last week when the gp looked at my scan she said "4.2 mm that's borderline"!! So much conflicting stuff about that. I've been told something different by 3 different docs and the radiologist said 11mm. I wish they'd get their act together over this. It causes worry. I felt o.k last week so I didnt let it get to me what the gp said but it's in the back of my mind that I ve got to get some progesterone. Because of that
Last month I only made 8 days and had a very light, short bleed.
Xxx
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Estrogel caused my hair loss, never had any problems stopping the progesterone no side effects from leaving it off, just stopped cold turkey.
Eyebrows, eyelashes and hair are all growing back since I've come off HRT.
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I've just looked back and seen you asked about others bleeds birdy.
On 12 days and 10 I bled on day 8 for 3 days. Each time. on 8 days I only bled lightly for one day. So it would seem the less progesterone the lighter the bleed in my case. I know my lining is 4.2 so not too thin to bleed.
I'm just thinking about the fact you had bleeding for weeks a couple months ago. Correct me if I'm wrong. But maybe it thinned the linings a lot and it hasnt yet build up enough to bleed much yet. . Just a thought.
Xxx
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General mental exhaustion and lack of sleep takes a very very long time to come back from Birdy, probably a minimum of 6 months and basically you need loads of rest and nothing to cause you stress in your life which is like finding and catching a unicorn for nearly all of us unless we have our own private island! You have only just started getting some proper sleep so early days. Much love...take it easy, there are no quick answers for issues which have been going on for years but we live in an instant world where everything needs fixed including our minds and our bodies and it just doesn't work that way unfortunately. :hug:
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Can someone please give me a hand making sense of going from utrogestan continual to 10-12 days a month. I know this should be simple but I can't think of how to do this.
If I do my first night without utro now, how long til I start again? I was going to make a calendar. Sorry I sound completely stupid, I realise that, but my brain has gone on vacation.
Thanks!
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Why not keep it simple and do your 12 days of utro on 1st-12th November?
Do you mean not take any for the rest of this month? I have not taken any yesterday.
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Hi again everyone, I wonder if I can get some more advice/suggestions please....I've been on the oestrogel (2 pumps a day) and utrogestan 100mg, for about 3 mths now.... Really severe flushes and sweats all but gone (brilliant), but anxiety, depression, crying, sleep, all gone much worse. I have ME and tend to be quite drug sensitive.....I've decided to go down to one pump a day temporarily, but I was wondering is there a way to half the utrogestan dose and NOT get a bleed....would every other day work?
Also, I've been taking the utrogestan vaginally, but doesn't always go well 😮
Can I swap and change between orally and vaginally?
Many thanks 🙂
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Hiya, thanks for your reply....haven't changed the oestrogel dose yet, I was going to start tonight...I was thinking try lower before going higher with doses, just because as a rule, with meds, I tend to need lower doses than average, especially starting, so wondered as I've been on the 'standard' dose for nearly 3 mths, that a lower dose MAY work better?
And that's same reason I wanted to half utrogestan dose, if I was trying half oestrogel.
Without making everyone cringe, yes have been using it at night in bed last thing, but was getting bits appear in the toilet with my wee the next day (sorry!), so was worried I may not be absorbing it enough. It's definitely the capsule as opposed to, discharge, because of the colour!
Oh, yes, I'm post meno.
Thanks x
If you are post meno you can use utrogestan every day, continuously, and not have a bleed.
Use it at night before you go to bed, vaginally? You absorb more that way and it won't drop out. I assume that's what you meant when you said that using vaginally doesn't always go to plan.
I would not recommend you swapping between oral and vaginal use as you absorb less orally and your body will be getting different amounts of progesterone and I can't imagine it wil do your mood much good.
Plus dropping your oestrogen dose back to one pump might be responsible for your darker moods too. You may in fact need to increase your gel instead. Hot flushes are usually the first symptoms to go when using HRT and because yours seem to be going slowly I think you need more oestrogen. Please give your body time to adjust when altering your HRT and how you use it.
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Hi Winnie, I was originally prescribed 1 pump of gel to 1 Utrogestan tablet daily. It is quite normal for there to be some residue of the Utrogestan tablet around the next day. I would give 1 pump of Estrogel a go, everyone different some need less than others to get symptom relief. Also it can take a while for HRT to settle and for your body to get used to it. Good luck! :)X
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One pump is a prescribed dose to 100mg of Utrogestan daily. What's low for some is fine for others. Keep upping Estrogel doses if your very sensitive to the product can make your symptons worse Birdy and yet you tell everyone to do this why?
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Hiya, thanks for your reply, so hard getting this 'right' when everyone's so different...I think I'll try halving the oestrogel, then very slowly go up if no better x
Hi Winnie, I was originally prescribed 1 pump of gel to 1 Utrogestan tablet daily. It is quite normal for there to be some residue of the Utrogestan tablet around the next day. I would give 1 pump of Estrogel a go, everyone different some need less than others to get symptom relief. Also it can take a while for HRT to settle and for your body to get used to it. Good luck! :)X
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Hi, thanks for your reply...I'll increase very slowly if the lower dose doesn't help....flushes and sweats have about gone, but anxiety etc has all worsened since starting the hrt.
Thanks x
Don't lower your oestrogel and then increase again. Do any adjustments very gradually. Ideally, you start low and gradually increase. Two pumps is a standard dose. It is fairly low. One pump is very very low.
And you are already on the lowest dose of utrogestan. Try putting the capsule as far up as possible. I use an applicator from an old Canesten package. But you can use your fingers.
If your flushes are still happening, you probably aren't on enough gel.
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Hi, thanks for your reply...I'll increase very slowly if the lower dose doesn't help....flushes and sweats have about gone, but anxiety etc has all worsened since starting the hrt.
Thanks x
Good luck Winnie..x
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Hi, yes taking the utrogestan every day without a bleed....I'd like to try every other day, see if it works for me, but won't change them both at same time 🙂
Thanks again x
Hi again everyone, I wonder if I can get some more advice/suggestions please....I've been on the oestrogel (2 pumps a day) and utrogestan 100mg, for about 3 mths now.... Really severe flushes and sweats all but gone (brilliant), but anxiety, depression, crying, sleep, all gone much worse. I have ME and tend to be quite drug sensitive.....I've decided to go down to one pump a day temporarily, but I was wondering is there a way to half the utrogestan dose and NOT get a bleed....would every other day work?
Also, I've been taking the utrogestan vaginally, but doesn't always go well 😮
Can I swap and change between orally and vaginally?
Many thanks 🙂
No I would stick to one way or the other. Are you taking Utrogestan every day Winnie without a monthly bleed? I know folk have successfully tried every other day, it might improve your symptons. Some people are quite intolerant to the Utrogestan. This regime may be better for you or it may cause intermittent bleeding, maybe it's worth a try? If you do try this I would leave your Estrogel dose as is for the time being.
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Is that utrogestan 7 days a month, and oestrogel every day?
Thanks
Hi, thanks for your reply...I'll increase very slowly if the lower dose doesn't help....flushes and sweats have about gone, but anxiety etc has all worsened since starting the hrt.
Thanks x
Good luck Winnie..x
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Hi again everyone, I wonder if I can get some more advice/suggestions please....I've been on the oestrogel (2 pumps a day) and utrogestan 100mg, for about 3 mths now.... Really severe flushes and sweats all but gone (brilliant), but anxiety, depression, crying, sleep, all gone much worse. I have ME and tend to be quite drug sensitive.....I've decided to go down to one pump a day temporarily, but I was wondering is there a way to half the utrogestan dose and NOT get a bleed....would every other day work?
Also, I've been taking the utrogestan vaginally, but doesn't always go well 😮
Can I swap and change between orally and vaginally?
Many thanks 🙂
Hi winnie1967 - if your severe flushes and sweats have gone, this suggests that the oestrogen dose is right for you. If you have been taking utrogestan every day then the depression and other pms symptoms etc could be due to that. If you are post-meno and this regime has not led to a bleed than the utro is protecting your endometrium at the moment. I have previously posted studies showing alternate day use of utrogestan but will be with low and medium oestrogen doses (I'll bump the thread for you and it's here: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43633.msg696198.html#msg696198 ) - it might not be sufficient for higher oestrogen doses, and is off-licence anyway so would need the OK from your doc.
I agree with the others don't swap between oral and vaginal use due to fluctuations leading to spotting or bleeding.
I would not lower the oestrogel as it sounds like it's working. You might even benefit from increasing it although I wouldn't try this until you've first changed the pattern of progesterone dose for a few months and see how you feel.
If your doc approves the alternate day Utro and you still feel the same (ie no improvement to mood etc) then maybe cyclically is the way to go as some of us do who don't like taking prog every day.
Hope this helps and you feel better soon.
Hurdity x
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Hello, thanks for that, and the link to the other article....must admit I got a bit confused (ME and Meno brain 😮).
So I could keep to 2 oestrogel pumps a day, and 100mg utrogestan every other day vaginally should be enough?
I take it I'm supposed to speak to my GP? Much as she's lovely, she doesn't know much about this hrt - when I got it prescribed, she just checked it was available on the NHS then agreed to prescribe.
Many thanks x
Hi again everyone, I wonder if I can get some more advice/suggestions please....I've been on the oestrogel (2 pumps a day) and utrogestan 100mg, for about 3 mths now.... Really severe flushes and sweats all but gone (brilliant), but anxiety, depression, crying, sleep, all gone much worse. I have ME and tend to be quite drug sensitive.....I've decided to go down to one pump a day temporarily, but I was wondering is there a way to half the utrogestan dose and NOT get a bleed....would every other day work?
Also, I've been taking the utrogestan vaginally, but doesn't always go well 😮
Can I swap and change between orally and vaginally?
Many thanks 🙂
Hi winnie1967 - if your severe flushes and sweats have gone, this suggests that the oestrogen dose is right for you. If you have been taking utrogestan every day then the depression and other pms symptoms etc could be due to that. If you are post-meno and this regime has not led to a bleed than the utro is protecting your endometrium at the moment. I have previously posted studies showing alternate day use of utrogestan but will be with low and medium oestrogen doses (I'll bump the thread for you and it's here: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43633.msg696198.html#msg696198 ) - it might not be sufficient for higher oestrogen doses, and is off-licence anyway so would need the OK from your doc.
I agree with the others don't swap between oral and vaginal use due to fluctuations leading to spotting or bleeding.
I would not lower the oestrogel as it sounds like it's working. You might even benefit from increasing it although I wouldn't try this until you've first changed the pattern of progesterone dose for a few months and see how you feel.
If your doc approves the alternate day Utro and you still feel the same (ie no improvement to mood etc) then maybe cyclically is the way to go as some of us do who don't like taking prog every day.
Hope this helps and you feel better soon.
Hurdity x
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Morning ladies, just been prescribed oestriol gel/ utrogestan, I am concerned at the high dose of progesterone as have been taking 5 mg previously in a tab form / femoston conti.
I'm also interested in your thoughts and experience on taking it internally rather than orally. :o
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Hi Bljezard - don't worry that the progesterone amounts on Utrogestan look high. They are no way comparable to the doses in tablets/femostan conti in terms of amount, nor should they be.
I use mine vaginally because they bypass the liver and the stomach and you don't get any side effects that way that you might get through taking them orally, but the thing is until you take them orally you won't know if they give you side effects - you could be lucky and get none taking them that way. Orally they are known to have a sedative effect, some women like it if they have insomnia, some find it makes them groggy. There are other side effects from oral doses but as I said you may be fine.
Some ladies get some side effects from using them vaginally but now I have been on them a year I don't get any that bother me much.
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Wot Ladybt said!
I do get some side effects from vaginal use but I'm betting, not half so many than I would experience from oral use, and I have always been a nil-by-mouth gal when it comes to hRT - as being the most natural way to get it into your body :)
Hurdity x
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Can utrogestan be used vaginally along side vagifem?? I was just going to take them orally x
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hi ladies
i'm confused i'm on estrogel 2 pumps and ever since starting hrt my weight is going up and up disbite not eating more this is having an big impact on my mental state as before hrt i had actually lost weight i'm 5 yrs post meno so this has happened since starting hrt and can't understand why it keeps going up at this rate i'll be 20 stone without trying its worrying me my boobs keep growing in size too i've been on hrt 10 months , i'm too loosing all my hair since starting it i'm thinking of maybe stopping i feel bloated all the time but scared if i stop it i'll end up with a prolapse through lack of estrogen ?
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HI Sammiejane, sorry I can't help - only started estrogel yesterday - but it does worry me what you are saying! I had conti patches for a while & noticed I was continually hungry & put on weight really quickly. Hopefully, some of the other lovely ladies can be more help than me. Take care x
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Hi ladies, just wondering if utrogestan can be used vaginally along with vagifem? I have taken them orally for the last two nights but after reading Ladybt & Hurdity last posts, I'm not sure what to do x
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Luckily I don't have to use anything for VA but I believe you can use vagifem with utrogestan vaginally Lucyjo. There are plenty of ladies on here who use both that way, maybe one of them will be along in a minute to tell you how they use it.
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Good Morning,
I decided last night to insert my Utrogestan vaginally and managed this easily just not sure if I went high enough up? I would say just past the second knuckle of my middle finger. My main question is that I had read from other ladies that it tends to run out a little so use a liner which I did and in the morning nothing came out, bone dry which is probably good I guess.
I just wanted to see how it dissolved so I put one tablet in a little food bag and dropped in warm water and it did melt quickly containing a white cream. My concern was the little bit of outer layer that is undisolved, where does that go? I know it's probably a silly question but I didn't want those little bits all building up inside:(
I kept checking after going to the loo hoping it would be floating in the water but nothing.
Thank you,
Grace ( complete worry wart!)
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They do dissolve quite quickly. Any undissolved bits just fall out with the bodily fluids you lose from that area! Don't go looking for them Gracie65 you will drive yourself insane! :) They just come out trust me!
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Thank you so much ladybt much appreciated and I will stop looking as you suggest x
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I really need some advice on what to do.
I changed to taking utrogestan for 25 days per month (100mg)because I was feeling so tired taking 200mg for half the month and the day after I was stopping the tablets I would be feeling awful and struggle to sleep.
So my query is that I'm not bleeding when I'm supposed to at all.
The other month the bleeding started when I was back on the utrogestan and I bled lightly for 2 weeks. Nothing during the planned break.
This month , absolutely nothing again but I feel like I need a period so I haven't re started my tablets.
I don't know what to do.
My best friend is a GP and she said I should take the tablets as normal ( so 25 days) but I'm bloated and have twinges in my ovaries and feel I should come on.
My cycle feels so messed up since I changed the utrogestan regime.
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Sorry need some more advice please! I'd been on 2 pumps of gel for about 6 months and was feeling great but hot flushes and night sweats returned so slowly increased to 3 with no improvement and now been on 4 for about 10 days still with no improvement. Do I need to be more patient? Worried I'm not absorbing the gel properly? Would I be better off with patches? Is it coincidence that symptoms returned when the gel prescribed changed from Oestrodose to Oestrogel...I've read conflicting things.
Thanks x
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Morning ladies, Started estrogel 2 pumps & utrogestan orally 10 days ago. Felt great for the first week - now feel rubbish again! Tired, headache, cba, aching joints & insomnia, anxiety. Should I just carry on as prescribed for how long??
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Sorry Lucyjo, it doesn't work quickly, you have to wait for it to build up and level out, unfortunately, you should try that for a least the first 3 weeks and then if the symptoms come back or don't level out, up the gel by a pump and wait again for another 3 weeks to see if it levels out. I would go conservatively. It is usually said that any use of hrt requires a minimum of 3 months use
before you can work out if it is right for you. I use 4 pumps of gel so it is perfectly ok to go to that level. The idea is to increase until the symptoms come under control and stay under control.
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Ok Ladybt, I think I got spoilt the first few days! Maybe it was psychological! I did up it to 3 pumps this morning so I will go back to 2 tomorrow & not be so impatient. Do you take utrogestan orally? Do you use vagifem or testosterone as well? I just want some light at the end of the tunnel - thanks xx
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I use utrogestan vaginally, not orally. I also use testosterone. My T was prescribed 6 months after I started the gel and Utro. It is usual that consultants or GP's want the gel and utro to be settled and working before they introduce testosterone. Luckily I do not have to use vagifem, I thank my lucky stars I have avoided VA altogether.
I had an absolutely horrendous time in peri and meno. My anxiety and aches and pains in particular went unregulated for about 5 years or more even though I was on hrt at the time because it was the wrong hrt for me both in the type and the dose. It took 6 goes at different hrt to find the right combo for me which was gel and utro and then after I had started that a full 5 months before I settled into "feeling better". The testosterone helped with libido, brain fog, energy, the rest such as insomnia, anxiety (off the chart type!) panic attacks, flushes, aches so bad I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia!, acid reflux, headaches were all sorted with the gel and the Utro. I am prone to depression so I use the Utro on a cycle, have a bleed even though I am 57 to keep it to a minimum.
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Oh thank you Ladybt, we sound very similar - I am 56 and have been trying for about 5 yrs to get hrt since I started with burning mouth syndrome! Had to see a private gyn. who prescribed all 4 thing at once (but the testosterone is still out of stock!). Wondering if to use the utro vaginally - she said take it every day - no break. Don't know what I'm doing - very confused xx
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You can take your utro continually and if you are post meno that is what is usually recommended but I haven't done very well on other forms of progesterone and had a very bad experience when I was prescribed Provera continuously (it's pill you take orally, you cant take it any other way). So I wasn't going to risk taking Utro continuously and I thought it wise to avoid it being processed by the liver and the stomach so I use it vaginally.
Everything seems to have settled nicely after a year, is all I can say. I do know after bitter experience that all this stuff is trial and error and a huge amount of patience can be required.
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Thank you so much ladybt. You seem to have really got yourself sorted - I'm very envious!! Take care x
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I really need some advice on what to do.
I changed to taking utrogestan for 25 days per month (100mg)because I was feeling so tired taking 200mg for half the month and the day after I was stopping the tablets I would be feeling awful and struggle to sleep.
So my query is that I'm not bleeding when I'm supposed to at all.
The other month the bleeding started when I was back on the utrogestan and I bled lightly for 2 weeks. Nothing during the planned break.
This month , absolutely nothing again but I feel like I need a period so I haven't re started my tablets.
I don't know what to do.
My best friend is a GP and she said I should take the tablets as normal ( so 25 days) but I'm bloated and have twinges in my ovaries and feel I should come on.
My cycle feels so messed up since I changed the utrogestan regime.
pinkjan your post got missed unfortunately.
The thing is if you are peri-menopausal then your own cycle will carryon regardless especially on the reduced dose of utrogestan. That is really the post-menopause or very late peri dose with the 3 days break just in case there has been a bit of endometrial build-up during the cycle. If you are ovulating irreguarly then that's when you will bleed - ie in relation to your natural cycle rather than the utro.. The Utrogestan won't stop the bleeding (if you are peri) but will make it less and certainly won't determine when you bleed. Do keep taking the tablets whether or not you feel like you need a bleed - this is your own hormones coming into play but you need to progesterone to counteract the extra oestrogen you are taking.
Your GP friend is right - so it's a toss up whether you feel better overall with the 100 mg and your irregular periods ( which are normal for peri) or the stronger 200 mg but feeling rough more of the time?
Hope you're feeling a bit better now that a few days have elapsed. What did you decide in the end?
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity.
I stopped taking the utrogestan for 2 weeks to see if any bleeding started. Absolutely nothing so I'm back on 100mg at night.
I would like to know what stage of peri I am in. Maybe late stage? I'm almost 46 so still relatively young.
I don't feel like I'm ovulating much anymore.
I can tell when I am because I fancy sex for a Few days. Then it disappears again.
I miss my sex drive 😢
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yay Cassie - that's great news!
Hope its the same for the rest of us.
I've just picked up my prescription. I got 4 months worth (i.e. 4 containers) but one is estrogel and the others are called estrodose. They seem to be the same thing and are made by the same company so I'm assuming they are. They didn't have the progesterone in stock yet but I suppose I don't need that for 2 weeks anyway?
Anyway, my gp was rather laid back about dosage so I thought I'd start with the recommended 2 pumps and then up it if after a month if I still have symptoms.
Ellie - did you decide on the higher 4 pump amount as that was similar to the amount with your previous hrt?
Cassie, do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions? Dont feel you have to answer :)
did you arrive at the 1 1/2 pumps by trial and error? Also, are you under any pressure to come off the treatment at all? Though, like other women on this forum I completely understand if you resist vigorously, I know I would!
With the vaginal utro do you just use the same pills that are prescribed for oral use? I'm quite interested in taking the progesterone that way too as presumably you can get away with a slightly lower dose as it's absorbed more efficiently?
Lastly, (blush) with the utro do you just 'shove it up'. I'm a bit worried that for me, after 4 children, it would just come straight back out again :oops:
The things we women talk about!
hil
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Hi
Does anyone have any information regarding endometrial lining thickness and what it should be / shouldn't be / when would it be considered abnormal or risky?
I am on long cycle HRT taking 2-3 pumps oestrogel and then 100mg uterogestan at approx. 10 weeks which has so far resulted in bleeding. Recent scan showed lining was 7.8mm and my consultant assured me that a thickening on scan with no other symptoms of irregular bleeding or spotting is nothing to worry about and to continue. Thickness alone is not a reason to stop HRT in this way - I thought it was and had put myself down on the waiting list for a hysterectomy (so could take O and no Prog as prog intolerant when taking all the time).
Does anyone have any experience or information - I would be very grateful...its a juggling act to be sure!
Jo
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That sounds pretty normal, mine was also in that range on long term utrogestan.
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Hi jojo999
The main question is - at what stage of your cycle was the scan carried out?
How long have you been on this regime?
Also are you taking the utrogestan vaginally or orally, and have you had any breakthrough bleeding other than after you stop the progesterone?
All of these factors will influence any interpretation into the significance of your endometrial lining thickness.
Mine was about that at some point in my cycle a few years ago - not on the prog but partway through the oestrogen only bit...
The fact that your consultant is happy means s/he will have taken all this into account so you should not worry. Also that really is not very thick, especially if you are in the proliferative phase of the cycle as you expect the lining to thicken. Ideally immediately following the bleed ( as it's tailing off to a dribble) you should have the scan and ideally would be thinner than this but I know someone who rarely got much thinner than this even after a bleed and her (private) consultant was happy. If you've been on this regime for some time then after a few more cycles it may end up being thicker or you may get some bleeding at the wrong time - but so far this is not in itself anything to worry about and certainly not to justify a hysterectomy!! You wouldn't be able to get one anyway unless the doc recommended it I don't think - not sure how you managed to put yourself down for one, even privately :-\. I think it's not readily available these days without v good reason.
Hurdity x
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jojo999 - a couple of years ago I was on a long cycle with 3 pumps oestrogel and utrogestan every 6 weeks. I arrange my own twice yearly scans and the scan at that time showed a lining of 8mm in one part of my lining. I have my scans sent directly to my gp and the sonographer at the time suggested I make an appointment to talk through the area of thickening with the gp. My gp arranged for a hysteroscopy and a polyp was discovered. I've since had it removed and it was benign so nothing to worry about.
If your consultant is happy with everything then you must trust their professional opinion. It sounds like you're being carefully monitored but if you're at all worried, make another appointment with the consultant and talk things through.
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Morning ladies, where do you apply the estrogel?? I have been rubbing it on my shoulders & tops of arms - down to elbows. I just wondered if it was absorbed better anywhere else?
Thanks x
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Usually always into my thighs unless I remember on the odd occasion about once a months to rub it into my arms :)
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Thanks ladies! Can I ask why you apply to thighs??
Thanks x
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Instruction sheet says - inside of thighs or on the outside of the tops of the arms and shoulders. There is a choice.
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Thanks for the replies
Hurdity..I had my ovaries removed in 2013 so went into full surgical menopause then. (PMDD but really they should have taken the lot out as Prog makes me feel depressed+++)
Up until Nov 2018 I was on Oestrogel and daily 100mg Uterogestan but the progesterone made me feel so low and sad that I felt it was either surgery to remove womb or Long cycle, so since November I have been trying 100mg Utero every 3 months. Had a really bad bleed May 2019 so had scan and hystereoscopy which was normal.
No break through bleeding just when I finish the progesterone.
I see a Menopause Specialist and also I have seen a Gynaecologist locally, privately first then transferred to his NHS list, who is happy to do a hysterectomy - but he is also the one who has explained that the thickness alone is not a reason to panic and have a big operation. It was my own GP who freaked me out about that!
For now I am going to carry on with Long Cycle and see how I feel mood wise and bleeding wise.
I see my Gynae again in 4 months.
I just thought that because I had some thickening I needed surgery NOW....over reacting! I am a bit of a worrier.
Hopefully I will be ok
Thanks for the advice.
Will keep you posted.
Jo
Hi jojo999
The main question is - at what stage of your cycle was the scan carried out?
How long have you been on this regime?
Also are you taking the utrogestan vaginally or orally, and have you had any breakthrough bleeding other than after you stop the progesterone?
All of these factors will influence any interpretation into the significance of your endometrial lining thickness.
Mine was about that at some point in my cycle a few years ago - not on the prog but partway through the oestrogen only bit...
The fact that your consultant is happy means s/he will have taken all this into account so you should not worry. Also that really is not very thick, especially if you are in the proliferative phase of the cycle as you expect the lining to thicken. Ideally immediately following the bleed ( as it's tailing off to a dribble) you should have the scan and ideally would be thinner than this but I know someone who rarely got much thinner than this even after a bleed and her (private) consultant was happy. If you've been on this regime for some time then after a few more cycles it may end up being thicker or you may get some bleeding at the wrong time - but so far this is not in itself anything to worry about and certainly not to justify a hysterectomy!! You wouldn't be able to get one anyway unless the doc recommended it I don't think - not sure how you managed to put yourself down for one, even privately :-\. I think it's not readily available these days without v good reason.
Hurdity x
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Thanks for the info jojo999
I'm still not clear at which point in your cycle you had the scan done ie your are taking oestrogen only for I presume 10 weeks and then 100 mg utrogestan for two weeks or something? Was the last scan in May immediately following the heavy bleed? All I'm saying is - like I said previously that when you take oestrogen your lining will gradually thicken all the time you are taking it. The you start taking the progesterone and during this time it reaches its maximum thickness. Then when you stop the prog it shed and the whole process start again once the lining has come away. It is at its thinnest immediately following the bleed but even a delay of a few days can mean it appears thick on a scan. The last but one scan I had was 7. something and this was about 10 days after beginning of bleed - and my bleeds were light - so it has already started to thicken. The most recent one I had was 4.7 I think - approx which was absoutely just at the end of the bleed. That's why also I presume your doc is not worried. The heavy bleed can be a result of long cycle HRT so it's a toss up between having progesterone infrequently and enduring the bleeds or prog more often and consequently more but lighter bleeds but having to put up with the prog side effects more often.
Good luck :)
Hurdity x
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Cant sleep so posting now in the hope someone will see it tommorow.
I started utro vaginally 100mg a week ago. And I'm the driest i have ever been. No obvious signs of infection and no itching just like sandpaper down there.
I've used vagifem or ovestin internally every single night for 9 monti's plus ovestin outside areas and had reached a point where I was comfortablei.
But since vaginal utro my vVA has suddenly got worse than ever. I cant re load as I'm already using every night anyway. My bladder quickly became irritated too and I've started having accidents and even wet the bed.the other night
Could vaginal utro cause this?xxx
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When I was taking the Utro it made me pee a lot also dried me out so yes it can TC. I was taking it on a 7 day cycle. X
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Yes, TC, I found it very drying and irritating. Also dried out eyes, nose all mucous membranes really. Not sure what else you can try, I've just started Intrarosa which is coco fat based and very soothing, might be an option?
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Ooh! Just had a caffeine moment - what about an e-string? Some ladies love them.
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Cant sleep so posting now in the hope someone will see it tommorow.
I started utro vaginally 100mg a week ago. And I'm the driest i have ever been. No obvious signs of infection and no itching just like sandpaper down there.
I've used vagifem or ovestin internally every single night for 9 monti's plus ovestin outside areas and had reached a point where I was comfortablei.
But since vaginal utro my vVA has suddenly got worse than ever. I cant re load as I'm already using every night anyway. My bladder quickly became irritated too and I've started having accidents and even wet the bed.the other night
Could vaginal utro cause this?xxx
Vaginal utro doesn't cause drying for me but the bladder irritation is definite. I pee more during the day and woken at night after vivid dreams. Usually once but sometimes twice. Not sure if this would settle but it doesn't over 12 days ie still have to get up in night. I also get itchiness between upper labia so tend to use Canesten often while on the vag utro.
Hurdity x
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I got all that when I started my Utro vaginally Tc but after 3 and a bit months it stopped. Especially the little bladder accidents, its almost like the muscles inside are going "what the ** is this - huh don't like it!" Have not had any problems since, no cramping (I got really painful cramps that woke me and I had to take paracetamol for the first 2 cycles all through it), peeing and the slight dryness but sorted that with vag moisturiser as I don't suffer from VA (how I escaped that I don't know but I thank my luck stars I did!!) but it did get dryer down there for a while. Stopped using the moisturiser ages ago (I'm 14 months in remember).
Sorry to hear that the VA has gone into overdrive cos it's nasty at the best of times. Don't know what to suggest, mine stopped, yours might not I hope it does, but bear in mind your body is pretty confused and you are only on your first cycle if I remember. xx
I'm usually awake at that time of night Tc but this last week I have managed to get to bed at midnight and sleep otherwise we could have had a chinwag!
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Hi Ladies,
When do you think I should increase estrogel to 4 pumps? I've been on 2 pumps since 11/10/19 and the gyn said I could increase to 4 but she didn't say when.
Still got joint pain & don't feel any better.
I'm still waiting for the testosterone to arrive.
Thanks x
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I would always increase slowly but you could try to up it to 3 now and see how you go for 3 weeks. If not better up to 4 and then wait patiently for it to settle xx good luck
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Thank you ladies. Good to hear you have been sleeping well ladybt.
Kilted cupid I dont know if the estring would be comfortable with a prolapse. The ovestin one night vagifem the next has been working well for me so I think it's down to utro.
I've got a full on cystitis attack today and I think I might have thrush too. No discharge just dry and sore. I've taken an oral thrush pill and cystitis powder. I think I'm going to go back to oral utro. Taking it vaginally hasnt stopped migraine which was the whole point.
Xxxx
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Thank you Ladybt - will try 3 pumps. would you put it either all arms or all thighs or would you put a bit on each??
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I usually put all 3 in one place - 2 on one thigh/1 on another and then swap the 2 pumps to the other thigh the following morning.
Same with arms but somehow I only do my arms about once a week - my thighs offer a bigger space for rubbing in! ;D
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I think this might be a UTI rather than cystitis. I cant stop shivering and the pain is getting worse. I've drunk 4 pints of water since 4.0 clock and I still cant pee except for dribbles which I cant hold in. And I've still got a headache despite taking migraine meds. Might have to go to the out of hours surgery tommorow. I've never had a UTI before only cystitis which the sachets and drinking plenty usually helps.
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Tc - I had exactly the same about 2 months ago. I had just started a course of nitrofurantoin for a uti and by the evening I was shivering so much I had to have a hot bath. I then started wheezing and called 111 for advice. They said the shivering was probably uti but wheezing was probably an allergic reaction and they wanted me to go to a&e because of the wheezing. I got fully checked at a&e and they couldn't specify if the anti-b's were causing the wheezing but the shivering was the infection. In fact the nurse said she couldn't believe I had so many clothes on in a very hot hospital. They gave me co-amoxiclav and I was fine within a day or 2.
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Thanks kilted. I will see if I can get apt tommorow if it's no better. Make sure you have in your notes you cant take that drug.again wheezing most definitely a reaction. Xxx
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Yes, most defo in my notes now! Good luck tomorrow, stay warm.
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Thanks again Ladybt! I just get so anxious about every last detail - I just want to feel better! So depressed, burning mouth is terrible, no energy, painful shoulder & arms, the list goes on - sorry to moan - sure everyone here probably feels rubbish also. I just don't want to feel like this forever xx
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Hi
Anyone on here use long cycle regime?
I use utrogestan for 10 days every 2/3 months. I use 2 pumps of Estrogel each day.
I was told this was OK by a menopause specialist I saw down south before I moved up to Scotland.
However, my prescriptions for Utro in Scotland have always said to use every month but I haven't. I'm prog intolerant and although Utro is the best of the bunch it still affects me quite badly.
This has gone on for 5 years without any question of why I am not ordering Utrogestan 'often enough'
My bleeds are OK, not overly long, or painful, and the month following utrogestan I sometimes get the emotional and physical symptoms of a period but no period, (Assumiing not enough lining to come away)
I'm 56 still having my own periods, lighter, pretty regular, but I know they are periods and not breakthrough bleeding as I get very noticeable physical and mental symptoms beforehand.
My GP has now only FIVE years reviewed my HRt and noticed I don't order U enough, and has written to me saying 'Utrogestan is no longer recommended for HRT in Scotland'
I'm beside myself as that reads like she is going to take me off it. I cannot take the synthetic progs as I react very very badly to them, progesterone intolerant, hence me taking Utro.
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Just to say. I switched to oral utro last night and bladder is much less painful today. X
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Just to say. I switched to oral utro last night and bladder is much less painful today. X
Great news Tc, sounds like it's not an infection then. Did the shivering stop?
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Yes kilted. Thank you. I mustve caught it in time. I hope.r. I realy believe the vag utro was to blame Xxx
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hi does anyone know if progesterone or utrogestan has any benefit to scalp hair as in helps it grow has a role in hair thickness ?
i take estrogen only which is estrogel 2.5 pumps and my hair is getting thinner n thinner i'm wondering if it's because i'm missing a balance with progesterone even though i've had hysterectomy!
never had hairloss on the pill ! or the issues i'm having on hrt !
thanks
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hi ladies
i wondered is anyone has had bladder issues since starting estrogel , i initiated systemic hrt due to dampness below wasn't sure if was slight incontinenece or VA and also take ovestin but i have noticed that since taking estrogel or estrogen i feel like i'm not emptying my bladder proberbly it's not that i go frequently only 5 -6 times a day and don't need to get up in the night unless drunk a lot before bed but when i go the urine stream is not as force ful as it once was and then the dampness i's still there not improved despite taking ovestin and estrogen for 11 months now ovestin twice a week and in the last 3/4 weeks i've been experiencing burning with the ovestin which wasn't an issue before and dampness worse ! could this be unopposed estrogen and i don't take progesterone with having hysterectomy and no ovaries either but progesterone acts as directic which may help in bladder emptying ? the burning seems to come on. the following day after using ovestin and is worse if i use is on the outside bits maybe i need to increase the vaginal estrogen and thoughts appreciated ? i have no uti been tested so it not this but having urethral spasms to which has come on recently !
should i try vagifem instead but i'm worried bout hairloss even though i'm loosing hair anyway so again this could even be the ovestin / estrogel !
i'm off to GP tuesday so am going to spaK again about the contraceptive pill instead as i'm only 40 !
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Hello everyone,
I hope you all won't be completely bored with my question, please forgive me, it's not meant!
I am switching from Evorel sequi 50 to oestrogel and utrogestan combo, and since my GP wasn't totally sure what I'm doing, have I got this right?
I use 2pumps of the gel daily and on day 15 to 26(?) I take 2 tabs of the utrogestan alongside the gel.
Is that an equivalent amount of each, at least to start off with?
Thanks in advance
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Hi Choc Ice - its not really a good idea to try and work out what each dose equivalent is for hrt. Yes you are right - to start 2 pumps of gel and then 2 utrogestan on the days 15-26. If you get a return of symptoms then you can start to up your gel half a pump at a time I would suggest. The maximum you can go to is 4 pumps but the idea is that you increase it enough to keep symptoms under control.
Thing is, each hrt works differently on different bodies so you just need to see how you go, there is never a "straight switch" when you change hrt regimes. Let us know how you get on x
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hi birdy
no unfortunately not on facebook just wondered if any of you ladies who take progesterone side of things have noticed that u have kept your hair same as it was or if it's been thinning had this thickened up ?
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"A recent post from a member in Scotland has thrown into question the availability of Utrogestan for hrt in the NHS Scotland regions".
Here's a link to the information for Scotland:
https://www.scottishmedicines.org.uk/medicines-advice/micronised-progesterone-utrogestan-fullsubmission-54209/
There's a pdf of full information on that page too.
It seems to be a question of cost - "the manufacturer did not present a sufficiently robust economic analysis to gain acceptance" and alternatives seem to be available.
Emma
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Many thanks Emma, I think BeaR has already posted that link on the thread relating to the query so hopefully this should clarify things for Scittish NHS patients.
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*Scottish!
Although I imagine they are a bit skittish with this news.
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Hi - I'm in Scotland and asked for utrogestan but was advised at the meno clinic to try something else as there could be problems with the future sourcing of if. So got patches instead.
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"A recent post from a member in Scotland has thrown into question the availability of Utrogestan for hrt in the NHS Scotland regions".
Here's a link to the information for Scotland:
https://www.scottishmedicines.org.uk/medicines-advice/micronised-progesterone-utrogestan-fullsubmission-54209/
There's a pdf of full information on that page too.
It seems to be a question of cost - "the manufacturer did not present a sufficiently robust economic analysis to gain acceptance" and alternatives seem to be available.
Emma
Thanks for taking the trouble to post this Emma. I, along with others, raised this question earlier in August but at the time Dr Currie was too busy to respond, and it has come up many times before.
The thing is we do need further clarification in addition please, because there is a crucial point here in the text at the end of the document you linked to:
"This advice does not override the individual responsibility of health professionals to make decisions in the exercise of their clinical judgement in the circumstances of the individual patient, in consultation with the patient and/or guardian or carer. "
What we need is clarification as to whether the Scottish system is like the English - whereby there are local recommendations etc (in relation to some LICENSED medicines), but whether the doctor can override these on the computer system provided they can justify it, as is the case in England - irrespective of cost?
The fact that there is patchy provision and some can get this licensed product quite easily on NHS suggests that it is possible but we do need to know and also help in knowing how to override it - is the text at the end of that advice for example, sufficient, if a patient can argue a preference for body-identical progesterone? Utrogestan is the only licensed product of its kind.
Thanks in advance :)
Hurdity x
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Afternoon ladies,
Just collected Androfeme finally!! (£125 for one tube!) It should work miracles for that cost.
I apply 3 pumps of estrogel in the morning & take ustrogestan orally at bed time.
When would you use the androfeme & where??
I also use vagifem some nights.
Thanks x
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hi birdy
what regime are you on again !
lucyjo
with you taking gel utrogestan every night and vagifem have you noticed any hair shedding ?
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Hi Sammiejane,
I have noticed hair shedding, but mine has always been very thick & frizzy, so not bothered me yet!
Maybe, if it starts to get thin I'll review things.
Do you use androfeme ??
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hi lucyjo
the only reason i ask is that i use 3 pumps gel and have noticed thinning hair i've lost 50 percent in 11 mths being in it and wondered if it's because i don't take progesterone or testosterone ? or if the estradiol itself causing thinning because i didn't suffer before i started hrt
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Sorry Sammiejane - I'm no help - it's all too confusing for me! I don't know if to apply androfeme tonight or in the morning x
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I'm switching from continuous to cyclic. The packaging for my Estrogel (in Canada) says for cyclical to take days 1-25 of a calendar month, or days 1-21 of a 28 day cycle. I think I saw somewhere in this forum that that is old instructions, and that we are to take it every single day with no break, am I mistaken? How do you all take it?
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hi lucyjo
the only reason i ask is that i use 3 pumps gel and have noticed thinning hair i've lost 50 percent in 11 mths being in it and wondered if it's because i don't take progesterone or testosterone ? or if the estradiol itself causing thinning because i didn't suffer before i started hrt
Hi Sammie, I think the only way you'll find out is for you to stop taking the Estrogel. If you're on Vagifem I would still continue with that. You could try a gradual reduction in the gel and see how you go. Unfortunately that's the only way you'll find out if it's the Estrodrial causing your hair loss petal.. X
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Started Androfeme this morning! Do you all measure it out in the applicator every day or just guess??
Also, how do you clean out the applicator - mine wouldn't clean and had to use a cotton bud - what a faff!
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hi Tracey E
i think your right the only way i'll no is to stop it , i guess changing to a patch would make no difference as still same ingredient estradiol ? i don't know why i'm having issues because i never did on the pill and is on option i'm considering , but you i took combined pill and wonder if i'm shedding so much hair because i take estrogen only not progesterone ! so hard to decide what to do ! all menopause say is it up to me i can stay on gel and take progesterone or swap to patch and see how hairloss goes and i did do this to estradot patch and to be fair hairloss in the weeks i was on it was worse so again making me wonder if it's lack progesterone ! plus testosterone because before taking hrt i didn't have hairloss or if i did very minor it was lovely and thick still hrt has exelerated it and now is half as thick and i'm 5 yrs post menopause so cant be low estrogen really ! but i guess the only thing to do is stop it , how soon should i notice a difference ?
how are you doing now since stopping your hrt !
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hi Tracey E
i think your right the only way i'll no is to stop it , i guess changing to a patch would make no difference as still same ingredient estradiol ? i don't know why i'm having issues because i never did on the pill and is on option i'm considering , but you i took combined pill and wonder if i'm shedding so much hair because i take estrogen only not progesterone ! so hard to decide what to do ! all menopause say is it up to me i can stay on gel and take progesterone or swap to patch and see how hairloss goes and i did do this to estradot patch and to be fair hairloss in the weeks i was on it was worse so again making me wonder if it's lack progesterone ! plus testosterone because before taking hrt i didn't have hairloss or if i did very minor it was lovely and thick still hrt has exelerated it and now is half as thick and i'm 5 yrs post menopause so cant be low estrogen really ! but i guess the only thing to do is stop it , how soon should i notice a difference ?
how are you doing now since stopping your hrt !
I'm fine tbh still got a few palps and a but if acid reflux but other than that good. Energy levels have returned and my aches n pains have gone. :)
I noticed the hair loss had eased after a couple of weeks. I never had any issues with the contraceptive pill either but then again my bodily Estrogen was probably a lot higher back then. Tough call Sammie but if you leave it off for a couple of months you should no one way or the other.
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Hi All,
I've just been to a new Gynae for a pap test and also had a TVS, she said my endometrium was very thin, so I'm now thinking that I can reduce my Utrogestan from 100mg every three days to 100mg every 7 days (continuous) or perhaps even less than that?. I use Estrogel but just half a pump daily. I'm seeing my regular GP in 5 weeks so can discuss with her then and also having a uterine scan in Jan.
Does this sound sensible? I'd love to reduce the Utro to as little as possible tbh.
LF x
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I'm switching from continuous to cyclic. The packaging for my Estrogel (in Canada) says for cyclical to take days 1-25 of a calendar month, or days 1-21 of a 28 day cycle. I think I saw somewhere in this forum that that is old instructions, and that we are to take it every single day with no break, am I mistaken? How do you all take it?
Hi Shannonplussed, I am in Canada too and take estrogel. Apparently if you are considered menopausal then you take it continuously. I take it continuously because of this. My friend, however, still gets periods sometimes so she takes it cyclically. I hope this helps.
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Hi ladies - may I join? Just had my regime changed :-)
Symptoms started 3 years. Tried natural for a year, had 36 hour migraines, severe vomiting with the migraines, hot flushes, fatigue, no libido, so asked to go on HRT. I was put on 50mcg Evoril Conti, symptoms lessened slightly but this past year, they have got worse and worse. I have been on it past 20 months. They wouldn't change it, last GP I saw actually tried to get me to cut down the dose! So I finally saw a private GP as I was just on the floor basically, with next to no social life. How I've managed to hold down a full time job, I just have no idea.
Oestrogen level is 44 pmol/L and Testosterone 0.4 nmol/L
She has prescribed me 2 x pumps Oestrogel (which will be upped when my BP has come down)
100mg Utrogestan - one a night
Testogel
Started 4 days ago.
That lot cost me around £90 but the Testogel and Utrogestan should last quite a long time.
Re the Oestrogel, can I ask you how long one pump pack lasts? I have been given 2 pump packs (which were £30) and I was amazed at what a large amount of gel one pump was. Almost covered my whole arm! I cannot see how one pack is supposed to have 64 doses unless it's a Tardis...…..I do hope my NHS GP will take over the prescription.
Thank you ladies - lovely to have like minded ladies to talk to and share with - have felt quite alone past 3 years xx
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Hi if you are using 2 pumps then one container will last a month (32 days.) x
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Yes the pump packs are a bit like a tardis ;D 2 pumps should last a month Dotty is right. I'm on 4 so get a fortnight out of each one! Each pump is metered but they work really great as you get to the end you will know and the dispense every last drop too - clever! ???
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Thank you ladies for the replies. I have such puny arms, that huge amount of gel almost covers all of it! Maybe I should try outer thigh. Though I put the Testogel on inner thigh, not sure if I should swap it around a bit.
Ladybt28 - as you get through one pump a fortnight, how many pumps do you get prescribed each time? Be a bit of a pain having to go to the docs so frequently otherwise!
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Heavenlyblue - I don't think I worded my post right! ;D You read "one pump a fortnight". blimy that's beyond low ;D ;D
I use 4 pumps a day! So my pump pack lasts me a fortnight on average. Dotty is right 2 pumps a day means 1 pump pack should last you 32 days or a month.
My repeat prescriptions give me 4 packs each time which means that I get enough gel for 8 weeks at a time! Must be clearer next time - sorry if I confused you :-X
So ref testosterone - I move the site I use around. I put on in the inside of my ankle, sometimes on the outside of my knee and sometimes on my wrist. As I use loads of gel I find my thighs are best - there is a greater surface area! ;D ;D - very much greater ;D ;D >:( ;D
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Heavenlyblue - I don't think I worded my post right! ;D You read "one pump a fortnight". blimy that's beyond low ;D ;D
I use 4 pumps a day! So my pump pack lasts me a fortnight on average. Dotty is right 2 pumps a day means 1 pump pack should last you 32 days or a month.
My repeat prescriptions give me 4 packs each time which means that I get enough gel for 8 weeks at a time! Must be clearer next time - sorry if I confused you :-X
So ref testosterone - I move the site I use around. I put on in the inside of my ankle, sometimes on the outside of my knee and sometimes on my wrist. As I use loads of gel I find my thighs are best - there is a greater surface area! ;D ;D - very much greater ;D ;D >:( ;D
You did put it right! It was me leaving a word off that confused matters....when I said 'you use one pump a fortnight,' I meant one pump pack! ;D That makes perfect sense, 4 pump packs lasts you 8 weeks. I have only been given 2 packs to start me off because it's my first time on it. I'm desperate to up the dose because I now know the dose is too low for me but until I have a normal BP reading, I have to stay on 2 pumps.....patience is not my strongest point!
Thank you for all the tips with where I can put all the gel...…...blimey, I will slide off the couch at this rate. ;D
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Well here I am again. Same old same old.
Switched from patch to sandrena 2mg and from cycle 200 utro to conti 100. I felt the eastrogen dip within a week. Now nearly 3 weeks on the utro and I feel exactly how I did before on it. It starts off after a few days by crying , then very quickly descends to deep depressive state then anxiety kicks in. Then it a seems to manifest itself physically, shaking, being sick, chest pains.
So I'm back here again. Cant take utrogestan it makes me realy realy I'll and . Eastrogen isnt high enough to counteract it. Same old story.
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Tc - I'm really sorry to hear that, had high hopes your new regime would work for you. I think you mentioned the possibility of an implant? In your shoes, I'd grab it with both hands. You'll be well monitored when using it and the reports I've read from users are all positive. Can your call your consultant and ask to increase gel?
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Well here I am again. Same old same old.
Switched from patch to sandrena 2mg and from cycle 200 utro to conti 100. I felt the eastrogen dip within a week. Now nearly 3 weeks on the utro and I feel exactly how I did before on it. It starts off after a few days by crying , then very quickly descends to deep depressive state then anxiety kicks in. Then it a seems to manifest itself physically, shaking, being sick, chest pains.
So I'm back here again. Cant take utrogestan it makes me realy realy I'll and . Eastrogen isnt high enough to counteract it. Same old story.
Sorry to hear this Tc - I was wondering how you were.
Thing is 2 mg Sandrena isn't very high and sounds like you are not really absorbing it? 2 pumps of estrogel is 1.5 mg and I know Aandrena is more concentrated but i would increase this definitley. I breifly changed from 62.5 mcg patch (or maybe it was when i was still using 50 mcg?) to Sandrena and doc prescribed 1 sachet per day and my flushes returned. I didn;t bother to try to increase to the equivaloent estargel dose - which would have been 1.5 sachets - as I knew the patches worked but I would have thought you might need 3 mg - but increase in small stages?
Do you rub it in well? It used to take me ages as it's quite sticky and stayed sticky for some time - which is what put me off partly - but worth it if it does the job though. Can you up the dose and stay with it for a bit longer?
You were on cyclical Utro before?
Hurdity x
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Thank you ladies.
I was on conti utro but after a couple oc months I got like this. Switched to 12 days cycle but (migraines aside) each month I seemed to be able to tolerate it for less and less days., and by day 10 I've had to stop.. Obvs on the cycle it twas better after stopping until next time. But on conti it didnt get better just worse and worse til I simply had to stop it. I feel like that's,happening again. I guess it was bound to if my eastrogen hasng gone up. It's like a recurring nightmare.
I've bee rubbing the gel in well. I find it rubs,in better if I keep it to a,smaller aea, no bigger t my palm size. The 2 x1mg sachets ae listed as high dose but when you consider I was on 2 x 100 estradiot it's a big drop the gynae said I can increase after 6 weeks.
I'm pinning hopes on getting implant but I cant have if til next year. Got to get mirena fitted first. They cant do that until 16th December.
I dont know whether to keep taking the utro in the hope it will balance if I increase E tommorow or just stop it. I dont think I can take many more days of it.
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I think I need to get in touch with c and w. If I stop the utro tonight I will have only had nearly 3 weeks on 100. And I've still got nearly 5 weeks til mirena so I guess I will have to fit a 7 day cycle in at least.
I wish she hadnt messed around from cycle to conti but she was going on about my lining being 4.2 and not wanting it any higher. But this change in both E and P at the same time has realy messed me up.
I'm in exactly the position I was in when I was first on conti with low E. I dont know what she thought would happen, why she thought history wouldnt repeat but it is. Maybe she didnt grasp just how bad it is. Or maybe she didnt realise how long i would have to wait for mirena.
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Tc - before switching from patches to Sandrena, I checked the equivalent dose and found that 1mg Sandrena is roughly a 50 patch so you've essentially halved your dose. You should call c&w tomorrow and explain what's happened, you sound despondent.
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Thanks kilted. I'm in despair. I feel absolutely awful. I will call them. Thank you xxx
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Thanks kilted. I'm in despair. I feel absolutely awful. I will call them. Thank you xxx
Chin up, old girl, you'll get there and you've moved on; you now know exactly what causes what and when and you've got a great consultant on your side. Together you'll find your sweet spot. If I were you, I'd stop the Utro tonight, you sound like you're full to brimming with it. You can re-start after you speak to consultant. Your endo won't have changed much on conti and less E, so you're safe.
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Thank you kilted. Xxx
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Hi Tc - the thing is the equivalent doses are only approximate - and as always depends on your absorption which is hugely variable between women and with different methods. These figures are only an average from trials of lots of women. If it's not working for you you need to increase - full stop. Also what's the fuss about 4.2 mm lining? I don't think mine has ever measured that low on any scan I've had since being on (cyclical) HRT!!! That is really nice and thin I would say - but obvs not what your gynae thinks! I can't remember at what point in what cycle ( if any) your lining was 4.2 mm anyway? On cyclical HRT it varies throughout the month.
What did you decide to do in the end?
I would first try to increase the oestrogen to see if that makes you feel any better. Alternatively stop the utro - and you will probably get some sort of bleed maybe small. Then after 3 weeks do another course say of 7 days, by which time it will be amost 16th Dec and hopefully at this point your lining will be nice and thin - ready for an increase in oestrogen to whatever level you need, and without having to contend with too much spotting ( if your lining is thin).
If you don't take any more between now and your Mirena, it won't do any harm of course, but you may well get a fair bit of spotting afyer the Mirena has been inserted as the lining starts to thin so personally I wouldn't do that ie if you've stopped I would do another 7 day stint if you can? However you could always ask your gynae at the clinic to see if this would be OK?
How do you feel today?
Hurdity x
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How are you today Tc?
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Tc, I'm so sorry you're having such a rough time. I hope you've made the call to C&W. Or take Hurdity's advice. xx
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Thank you hurdity. Thank you kilted.thank you Alice. I'm even worse today. I stopped the utro last night so I guess I'm going to have a withdrawal. I've had to email c and w.
I had thought the same hurdity that I will be able to firt 7 days at 200mg in.
A surgical meno site I found likens the first year or so after BSO to being much more akin to peri menopause than to a post menopausal state. A kind of pseudo peri. The body is adjusting, the "background" non ovarian hormones and steroids are going haywire. But with natural meno it's a gradual process whereas in surgical it's got to do a lot of catching up. So a sort of "pseudo peri" storm ensues. So even small HRT changes can have a big impact during this time.
My docs have seemed universally reluctant to prescribe an alternative to utrogestan (until now) and so have kept advising me to play around with it. Conti, 12 day, 7 day, back to conti. It doesnt make for balancing a body already in the middle of a hormonal storm. Add to that the way they have handled my E . Chopping and changing. Getting me to the highest dose on something and then with each change making me drop down by a significant amount initially for 6 weeks to see if I absorb better. I havent absorbed better once and have had to increase each time. So the result is these constant 6 week periods of nosediving , getting back to an ,albeit low, plateau then nosediving again. creating a rollercoaster in an already unstable environment. Looking back I've had zero hope of getting any sort of stability like that. So at the end of a year or so I'm in no better position to get a feel for how my body has adjusted itself naturally to ovary removal or of what my real needs are in terms of replacement
Xxxxx
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Tc - maybe you should say what you've just posted to your consultant. I'm not surprised you despair, a year of rollercoaster highs and lows is exhausting. It's really clear you need to find stability and the Mirena might help with that. Do you really need to take any more prog between now and Mirena? The coil will sort out any build up and you'd have some bleeding until it's settled but I'd ask the consultant if you can just work on getting your E levels stable before getting your coil fitting. Did c&w say when they might get back to you?
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Kilted. Within 2 days I think I'm going to up my E. ". 200 patch gave me 154pmol. Hardly too high. But no, they had to take me off it saying the dose was too high!! and give me something else at half the dose and cause me to plunge into despair again. It's happened so many times. I'm not having it anymore.
Thinking about this last year with this new perspective I've been given that rather than just fast tracking to post meno my body has been going through a huge period of adjustment, the way my HRT has been handled has been wrong. . Halving a dose in one go causes unnecessary suffering. Then increasing as I try to climb out of the hole, Never allowing me to settle and adjust to a level of E for long enough to plateau. Not seeing that with an already low e level even a small drop can be significant, I've had enough .
So You are right I need to say all this to doc.
Xxxx
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Hi Tc - yes you will expect a few days of withdrawal after stopping the prog (and maybe a bleed) - I expect you know what this feels like - but bear with it, since as soon as it's left your system you will at least feel better from that.
Yes your body is still in shock as your endocrine balance changes and the adrenal glands come to the fore.
Do let us know what the C and W say - as to what to do between now and 16th Dec and in the meantime hope you manage to cope - personally I would increase the gel anyway. Also what is it with all these docs saying a particular dose is too high - clearly surgical menopause is totally different, and a dose high in number does not necessarily translate into actually systemic levels.
Hang in there Tc :)
Hurdity x
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Thank you hurdity. I've said it til I'm blue I the face about the high dose low serum thing. I think they just dont want to be seen as prescribing out of the bounds of guidelines.
It's the same with the lining thickness which you mentioned. I dont think they would be worrying about 4.2 if I had been on conti. The cycle seems to bother them. I think it's the reason they push the mirena with the implant.as it (the implant) cant be removed and They dont trust the patient to take enough P to cover them. But to be fair they see a lot of P intolerant women and maybe they view compliance as poor. I've stopped taking it a few times. Even on the cycle I didnt get to the 12 days, so I think they see that as an issue, maybe rightly given the fact they are implanting an unpredictable source of E.
I already feel a bit better this morning, thank you. . My relationship with utrogestan is over. It's unfortunate as it has benefits over progestins and on paper it seems like the best option out of the P's but it just doesnt agree with me at all.
I'm going to up the gel by half a sachet. Does it keep okay once opened?
Hope you are o.k best wishes xxxx
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Tc - don't keep Sandrena once opened, I've just found out that it seems to lose potency so discard any leftover gel. Utro conti is impossible with low e, been there, got the t-shirt. Good luck with chatting to your gynae, hopefully once she has the full picture as you describe above she may take a different approach.
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Thank you kilted. I already feel less shaky and sick this morning.
I thought maybe the gel didnt keep.
I think patches whilst not giving me enough give a steadier dose than the gel. The gel seems to give a bit of an up and down delivery. Over 24 hours. And I've come to realize that for me personally that realy effects me. Maybe because I dont have enough of a natural buffer to compensate for these dips., they are more instantly and profoundly felt.
Ideally I would like to add a patch to the sandrena rather than increase the sandrena To me it makes sense it might by give me a steadier "reservoir" so to speak which might make the daily ups and downs of the gel delivery less noticeable. What do you ladies think about that idea?
Xxx
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Tc - don't keep Sandrena once opened, I've just found out that it seems to lose potency so discard any leftover gel.
Do you have any information about this? Intuitively I would very much doubt there is anything more than a very marginal difference in estradiol availability after a day of being opened (and immediately re-sealed). However I am happy to stand corrected if you have some studies which show otherwise!
With testosterone gel for example - OK a different hormone but probably goverend by the same principles - we are advised by gynaes to use portions of scahets and then fold it over and hold closed with a paper clip. My sachet lasts probably about 2 weeks - OK there might be a little deterioration towards the end but not so that I would notice, so was happy to go along with gynae's recommendations for testosterone at least.
Tc - I can't imagine what is going to happen to the estradiol after one day's brief exposure to the air...but as I said - I could be very wrong!!! Personally unless we have info to the contrary I would seal it with a paper clip and use the next day.
Also re the gel and the patch - yes that sounds like a very a good idea - and I think I have suggested it in the past - going on the experiences of others who have reported on here (ie not my actual idea!!!). I think other gynaes have suggested a mix of delivery methods too as it gets the best of all worlds - hopefully. Give it a whirl?
Hurdity x
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I have been on Sandrena 1mg daily with Utrogestan 200mg on days 15 to 26 for 4 months. My 'period' initially started a day or two after I had finished the progesterone, but has been coming sooner and today it's started even though I still have 3 days of the Utrogestan to take. I thought that the bleeding was supposed to happen once all the progesterone had been taken. Do I keep taking the progesterone for three more days even though I'm bleeding? Any advice much appreciated - 52 years old. Thank you.
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Thank you kilted. I already feel less shaky and sick this morning.
I thought maybe the gel didnt keep.
I think patches whilst not giving me enough give a steadier dose than the gel. The gel seems to give a bit of an up and down delivery. Over 24 hours. And I've come to realize that for me personally that realy effects me. Maybe because I dont have enough of a natural buffer to compensate for these dips., they are more instantly and profoundly felt.
Ideally I would like to add a patch to the sandrena rather than increase the sandrena To me it makes sense it might by give me a steadier "reservoir" so to speak which might make the daily ups and downs of the gel delivery less noticeable. What do you ladies think about that idea?
Xxx
Tc - I used 3 leftover bits of gel so the oldest would be 3 days old, they were kept in a drawer with a hair clip sealing the top. Later that day I had an almighty crash. I was trying not to be wasteful with the gel in light of current shortages but I won't do it again.
I hope the Utro is out of your system now and you're feeling a bit brighter.
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Hi all
Just started the regime of 2 pumps of estrogel gel and 100mg of utrogestan 100 orally every night. 10 days in and the bloating/water retention is awful. My legs feel like solid tree trunks, ankles disappeared, tummy and boobs huge and everything just feels heavy. I was off HRT for 3 months and had no bloating at all so i'm really feeling it. Not sure if if the oestrogen or utrogestan. Tried putting the gel on my arms rather than thighs but no difference.
Will this settle down? Meno consultant said it would take 3 months but I feel like a balloon, and thinking of coming off again.
Thanks
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Its more than likely the Utrogestan it bloats me terribly thus I only take 100mg for 12 days a month, could never handle it daily, its too awful.
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Just an update after about 10 days of switching from 50mcg Evoril Conti to
2 x pumps Oestrogel
1 x 100mg Utrogestan
Testogel daily
No change in any symptoms apart from sleeping a bit better, assuming that is the Utrogestan.
I don't expect to feel any better with the Testogel yet, I know that can take some time.
And my Oestrogel dose is the equivalent to the 50mcg Evoril Conti I was on before and I felt dreadful on that but she couldn't up it until my BP was down.
Good news is that my BP readings for the week have been really good so I will email my private GP with that, so she should give me the go ahead to up my Oestrogel dose, I cannot wait! I haven't felt well for nearly 3 years so any improvement, whenever that comes, I will grab with both hands :-)
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fingers crossed heavenlyblue - sounds like things are moving in the right direction however slightly. I found gel/utro/T a slow burn, "feeling better" sort of just creeps up on you. Its more a case of "I feel that same but I don't feel worse" and then one day you say "oh had 3 days where I felt quite good" but you didn't do anything different its just a build up of the hormones and the body settling into a bit of rhythm. xx
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Hmm. See I feel very bloated this month too. It seems I react differently each time I use utro. However, the shitty side effects never go away. Can I ask you Cassie, do you have a decent withdraws bleed on that amount (the same amount I used last month and this)? I bled but not until 9 days after stopping the utro and it was a very light bleed. Not red, but dark.
Just to say here that I also am experimenting with using less progesterone when my cycles are shorter eg 5 weeks - so have been using 100 mg vaginally (for 12 days) and always get a good withdrawal bleed - well a bleed anyway with proper red blood! This is on medium dose patch. Doc is happy with this. I never get bloating really though - well I'm not sure what women mean by bloating? Is this abdominal or what? I do get enlarged boobs during the prog phase though....
Hurdity x
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I've been thinking about this since the other ladies have been posting. My belly looks a little bigger (and is) than usual on the progesterone phase but I don't feel like I have a "bloated" feeling? Then it goes down, its not very much though.
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For me bloating means swollen tummy and water retention especially in legs. Although it's a little better this week as I have reduced to 1.5 pumps. I think that is why you have to take the tablet orally at night on an empty tummy. My consultant did not want me to have monthly bleed so that's why it's every night, and so far no difference to the bloating if the gel is applied to arms or thighs
One question, for those of you who are taking the tablet vaginally - do you use an applicator to ensure it's placed well?
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Hi Birdy
No I have not tried that - consultant never mentioned it and as I'm new to the regime I'm still getting the hang of things ! I can see the logic of the applicator though.
Thanks xx
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No need for an applicator! You just get hold of those tiny little balls of progesterone and poke em up as far as you can with fingers! Many of us have only ever used them like this and they work fine. They are designed for oral and vaginal use. Also applicators are not provded anyway with the 100 mg utro - only the 200 mg fertility ones (same product - used to be available for HRT as well but not with applicator!).
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity that is very helpful. Do you think doing it that way I would still need to have an empty tummy and might it help with the water retention? The empty tummy thing is a pest as somenights to wait 3 hours after eating means it's very late before I can get to bed! Also is it still OK to use vagifem at the same time - I usually do both the Utrogestan and Vagifem at bedtime.
Thanks xx
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hi ladies
i've took some time out from here recently but thought i'd give an update and once again ask for any advice u can give me.
so for those of you who don't know i've suffered terrible hair loss since starting estrogel 2 pumps no progesterone as hysterectomy and ovary removal !
menopause were under the impression it was low estrogen causing hairloss but i disagreed as i had my operation at 35 and had no hairloss for 4 years up intill starting estrogel ! also i'm still shedding hair and my recent estrogen blood level revealed 368pmol and testosterone 0.7 pmol !
i've been under dermatology who believe the medication has triggered telegen effluvium and the only way to know for sure is to stop it ! but this means 4 months without . i did ask if i changed to a patch would this help she said no because they are all estradiol ? is this right ? also do u ladies think testosterone could possibly help with hairloss together will the lack of libido energy zero and fatigue thick head and headaches ?
i have incorporated progesterone utrogestan and was taking every other day but the night i didn't take it the next day my headaches were severe so have been taking every day 100mg although not needed but to try and balance estrogen improve hairloss weight gain etc
day 3 and this morning woke up very angry and irritable and my chest felt heavy - is this normal ?
i've also been using ovestin cream for VA twice a week but found the last few weeks of using it's started burning so tapered down to once a week and the dampness isn't so bad in knickers and burning slightly improved but the outer bits feel more sore - should i swap to vagifem ? or stop using and would systemic hrt be enough for va ?
do i try testosterone before stopping estrogen to see if hair improves ?
i feel very scared at the moment and a little disheartened because i started taking hrt as i thought would improve vaginal symtoms and at the time this was all i had and now the vaginal symtoms are still there i.e dampness i don't think it's urine as had test and no significant prolapse either , but i seem to be more tired less energy sex drive worse now have gained over a stone in weight and have hairloss ! so in some ways feel worse but it has improved mood slightly sleep and a vibration i was getting in vagina , i can't increase estrogen as makes me constipated and sweat more and already have bowel issues and gi issues !
i just don't know what to do part of me is exhausted with it all and thinks yes let's stop it see what happens and protect bones another way then i get scared and think but what if worse what if then i do more damage or prolapse or something ! then i think we'll maybe try testosterone this could be what your missing but then worry kicks in and i think what if hairloss gets worse !
i know i've repeated this and lots of you ladies have already offered advice but wanted to know your thoughts now my estrogen levels are where they should be as i've ruled at low estrogen as possible cause because still shedding
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Birdy, what should T levels be ?
Hurdity sent a link on another thread, but it's a different measurement.
Mine was 0.9pmol. But there was no reference range given.
I'm exhausted all the time, and everything hurts >:(
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hi birdy
thanks for the reply
do you think as my estrogen level is ok now to incorporate testosterone first to see if it makes the difference not just with hair but the energy libido fatigue etc weight gain ?
dermatology i won't see till march as they wanted me to stop the estrogen to know for sure if it was that causing hair loss as at the time i wasn't sure what my estrogen levels were ie still low and they said they don't think it low estrogen that's caused it because i have continued to shed so think it's the estrogen which has triggered hair shedding so they advised to stop it 4 months and if i continue to shed then they would know because of the hair cycle whether it was estrogen medication or low estrogen well as my estrogen is 368 pmol i know it not low estrogen which makes me wonder which i've wondered all along is hormone imbalance because i never had issues on combined pill but maybe my body dosent like estrogen on its own !
so do i add testosterone in ? i am using utrogestan only day 4 and have to say last night i had hot sweats terrible sleep and this morning wake up heavy chested , menopause said as i don't need progesterone as i have no uterus i could take every other day which i tried but the headaches on the day of not having progesterone were bad ! feel bloated a bit to and boobs heavy so not sure if i'll continue this but defo need testosterone i think ? if menopause won't do this then i will stop it !
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Hi Nairncat, I too am on 2 pumps gel and 100mg daily utrogestan and am into week 8 now.
I am still waiting to feel better but so far it ain't happening! Hot flushes have subsided but still having them in a morning when I get up some days (can't quite figure that out...?) I have constant stomach growling and bloating,( the pregnant look is not good for a 63 year old!) my bowels feel weird, pains in my groin above each side pubic bone and under right butt cheek to pubic bone, hip and back aches, body quiveryness, still anxious, body aches all over and tired. Don't know if all it is the HRT or if I have something else wrong with me!!
Am on vagifem as well so am thinking of using that in a morning every 3 days in future for the VA and trying the Utro vaginally each night until I go back to Meno clinic in a couple of weeks.
Have just got a new pump bottle called Estrodose manufactured by Besins in Belgium which looks the same as the Estrogel my gynae doctor first gave me?? I put the gel on the back of my arms in a morning but wonder should I do at night instead if I start my new regime? Any help with all this ladies? It would appear there are quite a few of us still struggling and waiting for the day when we feel better??
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HAIR SHEDDING question too!
Hi ladies. I'm on Oestrogel 1/2 pumps a day and 100mg Utro every night orally. I'm feeling relatively good on the whole..flushes totally stopped and sleeping soooo much better.
I do have slightly swollen boobs that hurt a bit and my nipples are a bit sensitive too. My main question is my hair has started shedding again. Deffo more in the brush each morning and on the pillow.
My question is...is it the Utro or the gel thats causing the hair loss?... and which one is it thats causing the boobs issue?
Thanks x
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HAIR SHEDDING question too!
Hi ladies. I'm on Oestrogel 1/2 pumps a day and 100mg Utro every night orally. I'm feeling relatively good on the whole..flushes totally stopped and sleeping soooo much better.
I do have slightly swollen boobs that hurt a bit and my nipples are a bit sensitive too. My main question is my hair has started shedding again. Deffo more in the brush each morning and on the pillow.
My question is...is it the Utro or the gel thats causing the hair loss?... and which one is it thats causing the boobs issue?
Thanks x
Estrogel caused my hair loss Gracie . :(
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Thanks Hurdity that is very helpful. Do you think doing it that way I would still need to have an empty tummy and might it help with the water retention? The empty tummy thing is a pest as somenights to wait 3 hours after eating means it's very late before I can get to bed! Also is it still OK to use vagifem at the same time - I usually do both the Utrogestan and Vagifem at bedtime.
Thanks xx
Hi Nairncat
No if you are taking it vaginally you do not need to take it on an empty stomach. Also the empty stomach thing - it doesn't do any harm to take it with food - it just increases bio-availability so can actually potentially make the oral mode of delivery MORE not less effective, I would say. However if sometimes taken on full, sometimes on empty stomach then the amount in bloodstream will vary and therefore this could lead to breakthrough bleeding or spotting maybe?
Really don't worry about the getting to bed thing - just take it when you need to go to bed. It's not good to eat just before you go to bed anyway!
Hurdity x
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Yes but oestrogel doesn't Cause hair loss in many cases. I don't think i've Seen any other posters on here claiming that it has. Oestrogen is definitely good for hair growth and usually low e causes thinning hair.
Gracie have you ever had your thyroid fully checked out?
Yes it does Birdy, the menopause specialist told me so. And it can also cause gastric problems affecting gall bladder, bloating and acid reflux etc. It's all mentioned in various clinical trials readily available on the internet. Since coming off Estrogel my hair loss has stopped.
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My estrogen couldn't be any lower I'm not taking any HRT at the moment..
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Traci E, I do believe Estrogel caused your hairloss but your specialist describes symptoms that are also related to low estrogen as I have experienced myself. If it's noted in the leaflet or in research as a side-effect it is still not Estrogel (or estrogen for that matter) on its one but an imbalance with other hormones or the dosage could be to low or an absorption problem. The average leaflet of any birth control pill describes all the symptoms mentioned above and more.
Sometimes starting or switching HRT can also cause hairloss temporarily and it will stop once everything has settled. Like the sore boobs many women mentioned. Low iron/ low ferittine is something worth checking, even if you don't have anemia according to blood tests ferritine could already be low.
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traci and alicess
i take estrogel and have been shedding hair since starting it and still am now lost 50 percent and dermatology want me to stop it cause they believe it's triggered my hair to shed in telegen effluvium it's not that my estrogen is low as it 368 pmol and infect shedding is worse the higher the estrogen level , so i agree with you there traci estrogel causes hair loss my testosterone is low at 0.7 so either i'm still shedding due to that but i've had ovaries removed and testosterone was low anyway together with estrogen but i never took hrt for 4 years and my hair was mega thick and grew quick when i started the gel 11 months ago it's been shedding ever since and to be honest estrogen does cause hair loss it's the same as when women are pregnant they can loose hair and some loose after the baby it change in hormones levels or medication itself
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Traci, I am not denying your experience but your reaction to oestrogel isn't common, is my point. I'm concerned that telling Gracie that oestrogel causes your hair to shed is going to frighten her into giving up oestrogel when it is much more likely to be a thyroid issue or hormone imbalance.
Birdy, my experience of Estrodrial is more common than you think. Many women can't tolerate HRT and have to come off it every day. I'm not trying to frighten anyone but your complete denial to any side effects to Estrodrial isn't going to help either.
We are not doctors on this forum an as I said before telling folk to 'up doses' when they may be intolerant to a product potentially could be very dangerous.
Always consult your menopause specialist or doctor when experiencing side effects from HRT.
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Traci E, I do believe Estrogel caused your hairloss but your specialist describes symptoms that are also related to low estrogen as I have experienced myself. If it's noted in the leaflet or in research as a side-effect it is still not Estrogel (or estrogen for that matter) on its one but an imbalance with other hormones or the dosage could be to low or an absorption problem. The average leaflet of any birth control pill describes all the symptoms mentioned above and more.
Sometimes starting or switching HRT can also cause hairloss temporarily and it will stop once everything has settled. Like the sore boobs many women mentioned. Low iron/ low ferittine is something worth checking, even if you don't have anemia according to blood tests ferritine could already be low.
My iron levels were fine as was my thyroid function. Estrogen levels were good alas all the side effects were horrendous. My side effects never settled no matter how long I was on it.
I have a very good specialist which is very knowledgeable on the menopause and the side effects of HRT, I consider myself very lucky. :)
I have decided that some folk on this forum shut their ears to my experiences and don't take to kindly to my sharing, so I've decided to stop posting on here.
I wish you all good luck with your endeavours for the future. X
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Hi Tracey E - sorry to see you have decided to leave the forum. The others are not trying to deny your experiences at all and in fact both Alicess and Birdy said so! However what they expressed concern about is for it to be thought to be a common side efect so as to put other women off using it, when one of the most common reasons for thinning hair is menopause and low oestrogen, with many women experiencing improvement on raising their oestrogen levels. Hair loss seems to be a very complex issue and hormonal (and other) shock - ie sudden changes it seems may also have this effect, and also trying to get the product and balance right when replacing oestrogen is the key factor - so it could be that oestrogen in the form of estradiol is causing some other metabolic change leading to hair loss in your case. Again as has been said the balance between testosterone and oestrogen has a part to play, and the type of progestogen can also affect our hair.
For you Tracey E, it may be too early on the menopause journey for HRT and the type you have tried has not suited you?
I wish you well and hope you manage to sort out your problems especially with your hair, and also do reconsider HRT in the future if your menopausal symptoms become such that they seriously affect your quality of life. Hopefully if you do, you will be able to work with your very good specialist to find a product and dose that is right for you.
Take care.
Hurdity x
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Hello Ladies
Tracey E - If you are reading this I hope you reconsider your decision to leave.
One of the benefits of this wonderful forum is that it attracts women with a wide range of experiences so that all and every symptom and treatment of the menopause can be fully shared and discussed. I certainly feel relieved when I read that other ladies feel exactly as I do and for the same reasons. We all want to feel better so it's important to exchange stories of success, failure and everything in between.
Take care and I wish you well whatever you decide to do.
K.
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Hi everyone, my hair is thining on HRT, I've lost over 50%. :( My estrogen levels are fine, I have them checked on a regular basis. All my bloods are ok, no obvious issues. Considering giving up HRT for good. :(
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anaise
sorry to hear you have suffered hair loss on hrt as have i and again was told it's low estrogen everyone assumes it's low estrogen and couldn't possible be hrt well i take oestrogen only the hormone which is supposed to help hair loss but so many women i know who just take this hormone have had hair loss when prior they didn't myself being one of them infant my hair after my hysterectomy was thicker and grew quicker now i've lost 50 percent and dermatology want me to stop for 4 months to see if shedding stops as swapping from the gel to a patch or tablet will make no difference as it's all estradiol ! my estrogen levels are 368 so i know it's not low estrogen and as i never suffered after my operation in which my ovaries were removed to when my estrogen was low and if it was thinning it wasn't noticible hrt has excelerated it so agree with u can i ask what hrt you take
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This is quite an interesting article on female hair loss and indicates an anti androgen - spironolactone - to help as well as some natural alternatives. I hope it doesn't confuse further the T is good/T is bad debate but hopefully will give help to some. Spironolactone is closely related to drospirenone which is used in Angeliq hrt and is apparently a more potent anti androgen than spironolactone, although not sure if it's still available in UK.
https://www.forhers.com/blog/female-hair-loss-101-why-it-happens-and-how-to-treat-it
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Maybe someone could start a separate thread on hair loss?
Hurdity x
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i would start a separate thread but never get a response so giving up now
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anaise
sorry to hear you have suffered hair loss on hrt as have i and again was told it's low estrogen everyone assumes it's low estrogen and couldn't possible be hrt well i take oestrogen only the hormone which is supposed to help hair loss but so many women i know who just take this hormone have had hair loss when prior they didn't myself being one of them infant my hair after my hysterectomy was thicker and grew quicker now i've lost 50 percent and dermatology want me to stop for 4 months to see if shedding stops as swapping from the gel to a patch or tablet will make no difference as it's all estradiol ! my estrogen levels are 368 so i know it's not low estrogen and as i never suffered after my operation in which my ovaries were removed to when my estrogen was low and if it was thinning it wasn't noticible hrt has excelerated it so agree with u can i ask what hrt you take
Sammie we are very similar, I'm debating coming off HRT as I don't want to lose the rest of my hair.
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anaise
sorry to hear you have suffered hair loss on hrt as have i and again was told it's low estrogen everyone assumes it's low estrogen and couldn't possible be hrt well i take oestrogen only the hormone which is supposed to help hair loss but so many women i know who just take this hormone have had hair loss when prior they didn't myself being one of them infant my hair after my hysterectomy was thicker and grew quicker now i've lost 50 percent and dermatology want me to stop for 4 months to see if shedding stops as swapping from the gel to a patch or tablet will make no difference as it's all estradiol ! my estrogen levels are 368 so i know it's not low estrogen and as i never suffered after my operation in which my ovaries were removed to when my estrogen was low and if it was thinning it wasn't noticible hrt has excelerated it so agree with u can i ask what hrt you take
Estrogel Sammie.
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Tracey E, I'm sorry if I offended you in any way with my comment I do take your experience very serious because I had a horrendous experience with HRT myself and still searching for answers. I hope you reconsider your decision as I truly believe we can help each other.
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Sammiejane, for me personally I wouldn't rely on bloodtests only but go by symptoms. There are many complicated processes involved before the estrogen in your blood reaches its destination a.k.a the estrogen receptors. And those processes within your body are, for the most part, difficult or impossible to measure. Estrogen levels also vary throughout the day or within days so you're measuring just a moment in time.
Some women have normal estrogen values but still don't find relief of symptoms. On top of that our system may respond differently to exogenous estrogen compared to our own estrogen. It's also possible you're not absorping enough estrogen and you may need another route of administration.
I wish I could give you a definite solution for your hairloss but I can only repeat what I know from my own experience, the experiences of other women (and men) and the research I've read. That's:
hormonal imbalances; adding one hormone will affect the whole system
low estrogen,
low testosterone,
testosterone converting to DHT,
high or low SHBG
dhea,
progesterone,
progestins
starting, changing or stopping hormone therapy (HRT and BCP)
thyrroid
low iron
low ferittine
vitamins like B12
There are more causes but these are the ones I know of for sure.
Aniase, I hope the above will give you some inside too.
Alicess
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alicess
it is true about fluctuating levels of estrogen as i have just had to have my bloods re done as they missed off shbg test and within a week my estrogen has gone from 368 to 113 a massive nose dive so in some ways maybe this is what's causing my hairloss it's not consistent enough ! i never had symtoms prior to starting hrt really a couple hot flushes a little bit more emotional crying and vaginal dampness and i feel worse now as have hairloss weight gain fatigue irritable aniexty depression all brought on by the not so wonderful hrt ! i have more dampness problems with bladder in that i feel i don't empty properly and increase discharge very watery ! i think i need all 3 hormones to help all the above !
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Thanks Alicess - very helpful to set it all out like that.
Sammiejane - hopefully Alicess's reply can help you see it's not about actual levels of one particualr hormone at one point in time - lots of factors involved....I don't think you need extra progesterone as it is only needed in higher doses to prepare for and caryy a pregnancy and then as part of HRT to protect the womb.
Hurdity x
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anaise
are you on estrogel only ? how many pumps ?
do u have ovaries ?
i think for me being oestrogel i've just found out through my blood levels is that it's up and down as in a week i've gone from 368 to 113 and prior to this in june was 104 so it could be that up n down that triggered my hair shedding but as i had it on the patch i was on before gel i think it's hormone imbalance between estrogen and progesterone so i've got menopause thursday and will either go on the combined pill or stop it for few months ! the other issue i have though is my vagina as been using ovestin cream but things are worse now then ever irritates my bladder in the sense of needing to go when just been discharge is worse although this did improve the times i have taking progesterone too as i believe estrogen makes fluid progesterone dry u out ! lol it's so hard getting g a balance and has exhausted me the last year and i'm no further forward can't tolerate high doses of estrogen was hoping to get testosterone but they wo t give it me on estrogen at 113 even though last week was 368 so i'm in a mess and right fed up but can see me given up even if it's to reset body and start again on different regime
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I'm coming off HRT, it's totally screwed me up.. :(
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Sammiejane, I agree with Hurdity, I don't think you need progesterone. A combined pill will give higher estrogen but also increases SHBG much more so you will have less testosterone available. Some progestins like Levonorgestrel have more androgenic properties. You could give it a try and see how you go as you're not seem to be doing well on HRT. Ethinylestradiol alone seems to be also available in dosages of 10 uq. You could try it in a very low dose (10 uq) But you should discuss the different options with your specialist or gynecologist.
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Sammiejane- the bcp Yaz and Yasmin contain drospirenone which is an anti androgen and considered to be hair friendly. In terms of your vaginal problem, I've just started using a product called Intrarosa, I find it the best va product available - very gentle and effective. You could also ask for e-string, it's a ring which sits inside the vagina and releases a continual dose of oestrogen so you don't have to remember to use anything. Some women find it is really good at controlling their symptoms.
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I'm coming off HRT, it's totally screwed me up.. :(
I'm so sorry to hear this Anaise and I see you are new so :welcomemm: .
Maybe introduce yourself properly in the new members section ( or this one) with a new thread and tell us a bit more about yourself, where you are in menopause, what your periods are doing, what sort of hRT, what symptoms you're getting and what led you to start HRT ( just a few things ;D !).
Then we might be able to help you identify a different type of hRT if this is what you need for your menopausal symptoms?
Hurdity x
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Hi, are you a doctor Hurdity? It just seems like you give a lot of advice on this forum. Whilst not wishing to offend, I generally only seek advice from trained practitioners.
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i think anaise is voicing her concerns and or opinions as we all do ! unfortunately advice of professionals has to be followed !
my menopause clinic will not under any circumstances allow me the combined pill instead of hrt even though i'm only 40 however to old for the pill.
we have agreed on testosterone which i'm hoping will improve my hair loss as my levels are low 0.7 even though estrogen has gone from 368 on week to 113 the next this is normal and will fluctuated but they said the main thing is i am obsorbing enough to protect my bones . ovestin she has said can use up to 3 times a week or as little as once and can also do reload dose of every night 2 weeks but up to me to feel comfortable . my plan is to add testosterone see how i go i'f hair shedding worse increase the gel to 3 pumps if still no better then add in progesterone and if no better then i am stopping hrt and will protect bones etc through metabolic clinic . so i will see how i go and for those ladies that keep saying utrogestan causing hair loss my menopause lady said it dose the cause hair miss but doses tho grow the hair either , estradiol ladies on the other hand can trigger hair shedding ! hair loss and i have this risk with testosterone so i would love to hear from you if you have found testosterone to improve your hair loss /shedding and which one u take x
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Anaise - I think the word "advice" is a bit subjective and to Sammiejane - "advice from professionals has to be followed" - well actually it doesn't. I think the key factor is "choice". There is no way I would blindly follow a Doctors, surgeon, financial advisor or any "so called expert" or anyone else's "advice" without doing my own research first or after what they said to ensure that it concurred with other peoples knowledge, comment or supporting article or that something that they have done or said meant that I felt I trusted them.
I have encountered several "doctors" who have given the wrong advice or incomplete advice and so have plenty of ladies here - you just have to find the threads, there are loads. The "professionals" in meno vary in knowledge understanding and experience just as in other walks of life.
This is a forum where people, share knowledge, experience, and post links to supporting articles (Hurdity and BeaR post just off the top of my head are names who post from supporting medical articles) , plus give their opinions on situations and share "anecdotal stories". Those of us who ask questions or post what is happening are looking to others who have that knowledge, experience and want to share their experiences with us to help us, nothing else. Each one of us has varying degree of knowledge/experience and opinion. There are ladies on here who work in/have worked n doctors practices, pharmaceuticals, clinics, science, counselling etc all sorts of positions which can help menopausal women and are able to share what they know.
All of us looking for "answers" or to confirm something we are experiencing have a "choice" as to what decide might be right for us. There is nothing which says it is "gospel" or that it is "advice to be followed at all costs": it is a forum for discussion and it has a moderator who will jump on anything untoward. What I would say is that I would trust women, who have experienced all sorts of things in the menopause, all kinds of treatments, read all sorts of articles for their jobs or even just because they have an interest, who had all sorts of experiences with doctors prescribing medications and women who have had all sorts of experiences and reactions to those treatments to provide a good basis on which I can make my own decisions.
But at the end of the day they are my decisions and mine alone and I have discounted doctors theories which turned out to be just plain wrong! Hurdity has been posting on this forum for about 10 years and clearly has a lot of knowledge and experience and there are plenty of others (I cant remember all the names at the moment) who regularly post more medical type posts so why you would single her out I'm not sure. At the end of the day, it is someone's choice as to whether they listen to what anyone on the forum has to say, but to be honest, I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would come here to a forum like this looking for answers, or posting experiences if they already have a preconceived idea that "they only take advice from trained practitioners" or if they don't want anyone else's comment on what they have said. Its just not that type of forum. If anyone disagrees, feel free to say, never any offence taken, everyone is welcome to their opinion xx
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Wow Ladybt thanks for your articulate and well discussed post! I can't add anything to that - except thanks also for your kind words (not suite 10 years though - more like 8 with a few months off somewhere early on ::) ). Yes we - as members posting, all contribute a huge amount of experience, advice, knowledge and support whatever our background and in whatever way we can - usually politely and respectfully, even if sometimes strongly!
Hurdity x
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You're welcome Hun, but about my post, my point is, the same thing applies to all the posters here - we do it to share with others so it might give some insight and help; what anyone chooses to do with that information is up to them. That's what the forum is all about, which I suppose like anything is easy to forget.
I often check out the "stats" bit on the bottom of the forum front page; right at the bottom ays "forum info page" and it never ceases to amaze me. Today it showed:
523508 Posts in 25410 Topics by 16115 Members - I mean wow, when you think about it, that's a wealth of information we can all learn from - there are a lot of menopausal women in the world and a fair few of them are on here or have been on here!! xx
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ladybt28
firstly i find your post post rude !
i have not pointed anyone out or singled someone out so you knowledge is completely wrong there !
my comment was meant and sorry if i wasn't very clear was that medical professional expect us to follow what they say as in they know best when we all know what works for one dosent work for the next 20 women ! which is why anaise was on here to ask opinions of others and experiences . so not sure where u got i singled hurdity out because never mentioned her .
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anaise-
can i ask have you tried any other hrt before the gel or were you put straight on that ?
how was your hair before you started the estrogel were you loosing hair ?
how many pumps and how long have u been on it ?
i had review today with menopause who said i need testosterone as it's low but this could worsen my hairloss but may not so i'm praying it helps and balances estrogen !
are u thinking still to stop the hrt ?
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You're welcome Hun, but about my post, my point is, the same thing applies to all the posters here - we do it to share with others so it might give some insight and help; what anyone chooses to do with that information is up to them. That's what the forum is all about, which I suppose like anything is easy to forget.
I often check out the "stats" bit on the bottom of the forum front page; right at the bottom ays "forum info page" and it never ceases to amaze me. Today it showed:
523508 Posts in 25410 Topics by 16115 Members - I mean wow, when you think about it, that's a wealth of information we can all learn from - there are a lot of menopausal women in the world and a fair few of them are on here or have been on here!! xx
Abso-bloody-lutely Ladybt!! This is exactly my feeling and what I said in the second part of my post in repsonse to yours, and what I frequently also try to convey - but not as well as you just have! That we are all equal on here whatever our background and between us contribute different levels of knowedge, advice, help, information support, hugs - and mostly in a very amicable way - with the occasional blip ::).
Have a good weekend :)
Hurdity x
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You're welcome Hun, but about my post, my point is, the same thing applies to all the posters here - we do it to share with others so it might give some insight and help; what anyone chooses to do with that information is up to them. That's what the forum is all about, which I suppose like anything is easy to forget.
I often check out the "stats" bit on the bottom of the forum front page; right at the bottom ays "forum info page" and it never ceases to amaze me. Today it showed:
523508 Posts in 25410 Topics by 16115 Members - I mean wow, when you think about it, that's a wealth of information we can all learn from - there are a lot of menopausal women in the world and a fair few of them are on here or have been on here!! xx
I so agree with you! I am at the point where I feel like this forum helps fill in the gaps that a lot of "specialists" don't know. I think this is because there is unfortunately a lack of studies done compared to other health conditions and also it really does seem like individuals experience menopausal symptoms quite uniquely...I am so thankful for this forum because ladies helped me on here realize that medical professionals have varying advice/prescriptions for the same medications! Mamma mia! And when you're feeling so lousy and fed up due to all of the horrid symptoms, it becomes so much more frustrating to figure out dosages or treatment options...anyway, I don't want to jinx myself but thanks to the help on here re: my estrogel dosage that many of you gave a wealth of advice to me about, I am feeling sooo much better! It's just that I have to hide from my gyno that I am using three pumps rather than two to avoid her wrath....thanks again all!
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Ladybt28, I wholeheartedly agree! 🌷
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well gals to know i'm able to have an opinion !
glad to know some of you on here are having a giggle at my expense ! how old ?
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Sammiejane, you should read Ladybt28's comment more thorough! You've wrote - advice from professionals has to be followed- and Lady says- no, you don't, you have a choice- and she explains why. Her comment about Hurdity relates to Aniase's post. Who's laughing?!
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my comment was a sarcastic comment that professionals say there advice has to be followed !
anyway haven't come on the forum to have little remarks made i am not 5 yrs old
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Hey Sammiejane - let's not fall out. It was Anaise that started all this off by implying we should not give advice and we should only heed the advice of medical professionals - so we're all trying to be helpful in the best way we can.
In CLKD's words "the written word is static". Anaise's comment was obvious what she was saying and that was responded to....no-one subsequently intended to hurt, belittle or laugh at anyone
Can we please move on now? We're all in this together ::)
Hurdity x
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hi hurdity
i agree let's move on ! i apologise to any i may of upset my emotions are getting the better of me the last few days !
thanks
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Sammiejane, I can totally relate to that: emotional upheaval :-). Yes, let's move on.
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anaise-
can i ask have you tried any other hrt before the gel or were you put straight on that ?
how was your hair before you started the estrogel were you loosing hair ?
how many pumps and how long have u been on it ?
i had review today with menopause who said i need testosterone as it's low but this could worsen my hairloss but may not so i'm praying it helps and balances estrogen !
are u thinking still to stop the hrt ?
My hair was fine before starting HRT, I'm on two pumps and have been on it for 6 months.
This is the first HRT I've tried Sammie and yes my hair is quite important to me so will be coming off it shortly. I will lower the dose gradually though. How r u feeling now Sammie?
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Hey Sammiejane - let's not fall out. It was Anaise that started all this off by implying we should not give advice and we should only heed the advice of medical professionals - so we're all trying to be helpful in the best way we can.
In CLKD's words "the written word is static". Anaise's comment was obvious what she was saying and that was responded to....no-one subsequently intended to hurt, belittle or laugh at anyone
Can we please move on now? We're all in this together ::)
Hurdity x
I take offence to this comment Huridty. I never started anything off, :( I just prefer to seek professional advice about HRT. I listen to other womens experiences intently but would never expect guidance with regards to dosages of drugs as we are all very different and react differently to upping dosages willy nilly. I value the advice of experts because that's what they are experts.
Hair loss is a side effect of Estrodrial whether you accept that fact is upto you. Take it or leave it!
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hi anaise
you are right hairloss is a side effect of estradiol ! both dermatology tricologist and gynocologist have all told me the same . and it can be due to the medication itself or imbalance of the ratio of estrogen to progesterone ( i never had hair loss on combined pill as it was both E and P) or simply raise in hormones like women who are pregnant can shed hair and some loose it after the baby is born . progesterone i've been told by my menopause and prof stuffs clinic does not cause hairloss ! but it dosent have any effect on hair growth either but i believe it needs to be balanced with estrogen.
i went onto estradot patch for 5 weeks as initially i wasn't obsorbing the gel so they thought and hair didn't improve although the patch suited me , i've briefly tried utrogestan as my menopause said i can take but on day 5 was getting flushes so stopped due to shortages of the patch have had to go back on the gel but i'm started testosterone on monday and i hope will help with hairloss and weight i've gained ! they have agreed because although my reading last time was 104 nmol level of estrogen because they cocked up on my bloods i had to have them done again 10 days apart so first was 368 nmol and second 113 nmol so some fluctuation but enough obsorbed ! if my hair doesn't improve will then add progesterone and if no good i'm stopping it ! personally i think women who ovaries are removed should be supplemented with all 3 from the start as our hormones diminished together they should be put back together !
have you had ovaries removed ?
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hi ladies
i'm currently on estrogel 2 pumps and it's causing my hair to shed at a rapid rate !
would it be worth me swapping to sandrena gel would this make any difference ? or a patch ? the only thing is which one which one dosent cause hairloss estradot has it listed as rare side effect , everol dosent list it at all , sandrena says it's uncommon and estraderm like the estrogel is post marketing alopecia but frequency unknown ? i've been on estrogel a year and it still shedding i know it's not low estrogen as it would of stopped now and i'm worried adding testosterone will make it worse !
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hi anaise
do you take estrogen only ?
have you had hysterectomy ?
i'm not sure what to do part of me is saying stop it because my hairloss is worse and i think it's just unopposed estrogen that's causing it i don't think it would make a difference changing to patch or another gel because starting it has triggered my hair to thin and have been on a year with it getting worse not better despite having more estrogen ! dermatology want me to stop it but menopause want me to try testosterone and i don't know what to do i'm so scared to do either and am having a right panic today !
please anyone in a similar situation please advise even to calm me from this panic and fear !
had anyone had hair shedding on estrogen only no progesterone and added testosterone and it helped they hair stopped shedding and they started having thicker hair again ?
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Hi Sammiejane,
do you take estrogen only ?
have you had hysterectom
Yes and yes, my hair loss has increased on Estrogel, lost almost 50% of it now. You could try tetesterone to see if it balance the Estrogen a little. I'm going to come off HRT, don't feel great on it at all.
Keep me posted on how you get on? :)
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hi anise
i can totally relate and part of me knows it's hrt that triggered my hairloss because it was fine before didn't shed don't get me wrong the hair was dryer but grew thick and kind dead quick only place a lost a little was temples really but not noticeable and didn't bother me since going on hrt it screwed me up it's like i've become aware of every little thing , not to mention that i had lost weight as well following hysterectomy and now have gained over a stone , and like u i don't feel great and i've asked about swapping hrt to patch but my menopause and dermatology have both said will make no difference in hair loss as all contain estradiol , i don't know if this is true because it might be in particular estrogel i've been on a patch only 5 weeks then went out of stock but hair didn't improve may of been to early to tell but i'll try the testosterone and see how it goes i'm not holding out much hope , infact it has taking a good year for me to even feel 50 percent on hrt but it comes with side effects , prior to starting hrt i was lucky had 4 yrs symtom free just couple hot flushes didn't bother me , and then got dampness below which i wish i had just tried vaginal estrogen first before systemic because now i've gained weight boobs bigger and hurt hairloss moody aniexty depression irritability so in some ways i'm worse then before . why don't we do this i'll try testosterone and keep u updated and if your thinking of stopping the estrogel your should notice your hair decrease or stop shedding withing 3-4 months and keep me posted how it going you can always restart again i think that's what i'll be doing if testosterone dosent work just to reset my body and see exactly what symtoms i do have and then start again but not with estrogel ! some women hrt just dosent suit x can i ask your age as i'm only 40 so very young for menopause but my quality of life is important to and if something dosent improve then it's not worth it in my opinion
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I think you've explained that very well Birdy. A lot of things get blamed on HRT and HRT side effects when they are not due to HRT. X
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i agree to a certain point birdy however surgical menopause is totally different to natural menopause , you loose all 3 hormones together there isn't any peri menopause so fluctuations in hormones and the problem is only estrogen is supplemented i know women who are given E P and T all together same time and have no hairloss issues others are told to get a good level of estrogen and this is the problem i believe is that lots of estrogen and none of the other hormones is what creates an imbalance and this is why i am now shedding hair i didn't shed hair for over 4 yrs prior
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hi anaise
how are feeling !
have you stop the estrogel ?
i'm going to change to a patch and come off the gel it's making me ill to much up and down with it ! not to mention hairloss a patch may or may not help this but need to try all options before i throw in the towel as with being only 40 but i'm exhausted fed up and to be honest would rather a couple of hot flashes then fill this rubbish !
let me know if u stop and if your shedding stops xx
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hi birdy
i meant a balance in respect of being given all hormones hysterectomie women are not usually offered this and this is the problem ! u need a balance in the hormones themselves to relieve symtoms i agree but when a women is only given one hormone when loosing three this spikes a imbalance
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Sammiejane, from my understanding progesterone protects the lining of the womb, it downregulates estrogen receptors and induces estrogen- inactivating enzymes. It can only act in the presents of estrogen. If there is such a thing as estrogen dominance then I think it's more likely that testosterone would be it's counterpart. According to Dr. Lee and his estrogen dominance theory progesterone decreases more then estrogen in menopause, hence we need more progesterone... A very thin conclusion as there is less need for progesterone if there is less estrogen. I don't want to dismiss the benefits some women experience with progesterone as it has its own properties but most women are struggling with its side- effects.
I agree with Birdy, you need to find the right HRT for you but I do find it very frustrating that it has to be such a long search with trial and error.It shouldn't have to be like that.
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hi alicess
oh i know this trial and error is so tiring i had to give up work because all this since going on hrt has consumed my life before i started it i got on with things just thought what will be will be and at the moment i'm ill infact that another negative i've found since introducing hormones is that i'm always ill i know everything can't be blamed on hormones by it's funny how all my aches and pains hairloss mood fluctuation headaches depression and aniexty have all started since taking hrt !
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It would be so much easier if GP practices (or if there were specialist meno clinics in practices or specialist nurses) provided regular hormone testing on a regular basis. Therefore if you were having problems you could go and get your bloods done twice a week for 8 weeks which would give a least a bit of picture of what the body was doing on an individual basis.
I have never ever had any blood tests done since starting hrt at 45 and I am now 57. I was on the "wrong hrt for 8 years which hardly did anything to help me but I didn't know that at the time and then it took 3 years of swapping and changing to get the right hrt and then 7 months for that to "settle" and start working as it should (or as good as it's gonna get). I have now been on the "right hrt" for 14 months.
I too had anxiety so bad I was certifiable, aches and pains so bad I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia (but it isn't, its hormonal), insomnia that I could go 48 hours without sleeping, left sided migraines in my face amongst a whole host of other things. They have nearly all gone or have dialled down from a plus 10 to about a 2 on scale. I am better than I have been in 20 years (turns out the hormonal problems were there before meno which was why it was so bad). But through all this not one blood test or any real help at all. I had to sort it out for myself.
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ladtbt28
thank i for your post it makes me feel i am not going insane !
and this is my point it just so happens that the gp forgot to test me for SHBG so i had to have my blood test redone 10 days apart and on this it showed estrogen level fluctuate 368 to 113 now i'm not peri have no ovaries i shouldn't be fluctuation and this is why i feel crap but my argument with menopause is that if i had , had the blood test done the second week only and gave them the results at follow up they would of said based on 113 nmol/L that i'm not obsorbing the gel and can't perscribe T swap to patch yet because the reading week before was 368 they gave me testosterone but i'm concerned how it's up and down not only the estrogen but relative to other hormones . i'll do what they say but if no improvement i've decided i'm coming off it i'm only 40 but i'm going to feel like this for next 10 years and end up bald or very overweight
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hi tracey e
how are things going huni since you stopped the estrogel you mentioned your hair loss stopped is that still the case ?
have your started any other form of hrt ?
we're you just taking estrogel on its own ?
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Hi sammiejane - Tracey E has left the forum so unfortunately won't be able to reply to your question. I think if you look back a couple of pages in this thread she has mentioned this and we have replied.
Hurdity x
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Hi everyone newbie here and would appreciate some advice/guidance if anyone can help please. Age 48 last period around January this year. Been taking 2 pumps of estrogel and 25/28 days of Utrogestan for just over a month now.
I've been experiencing really bad hip/joint/back and neck pain since starting. Does anyone know if this normal? If so, is it likely to continue or ease off as my body adjusts to the treatment? Thank you
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hi alicess
oh i know this trial and error is so tiring i had to give up work because all this since going on hrt has consumed my life before i started it i got on with things just thought what will be will be and at the moment i'm ill infact that another negative i've found since introducing hormones is that i'm always ill i know everything can't be blamed on hormones by it's funny how all my aches and pains hairloss mood fluctuation headaches depression and aniexty have all started since taking hrt !
Sounds just like me Sammie. ???
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hi anaise
i did PM you x
how are you finding your hair shedding now since stopping the estrogel ?
are you on a different hrt ?
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hi anaise
i did PM you x
how are you finding your hair shedding now since stopping the estrogel ?
are you on a different hrt ?
Sorry Sammie I haven't checked my pm's. No I'm not taking anything at the moment. My hair a started to grow back, so I'm happy about that.
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You are also very stressed Sammie and stress creates exactly the right conditions for inflammation and lowered immunity so you'll get sicker for longer, and more often. And it can cause hair to shed. And you are less likely to find balance anywhere when you're upset most of the time.
This is very negative reply Birdy. What's your excuse for your problems with HRT? I hazzard a guess it won't be the Estrogen causing it. ;)
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hi anaise
if you don't mind me asking what age were you when u had your hysterectomy and ovaries removed?
i've stopped my estrogel and it's day 8 now but my hair hasn't shed till this morning , i'm going to give it a little longer and see , so far i feel ok couple of hot flushes at night although manageable it's my sleep which is effected x i'm only 40 and can't be on it 10 years with hair shedding i'll be bold x i don't know what to do go back on gel and take progesterone and testosterone too just for balance or try a patch x
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hi anaise
if you don't mind me asking what age were you when u had your hysterectomy and ovaries removed?
i've stopped my estrogel and it's day 8 now but my hair hasn't shed till this morning , i'm going to give it a little longer and see , so far i feel ok couple of hot flushes at night although manageable it's my sleep which is effected x i'm only 40 and can't be on it 10 years with hair shedding i'll be bold x i don't know what to do go back on gel and take progesterone and testosterone too just for balance or try a patch x
Hi, I was 48 years old Sammie.
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hi anaise
had you been on hrt before you started the gel ?
did u have ovaries removed also x
what age are you now ? because if you can manage the symtoms and you are normal menopause age ie 51/52 then you could go hrt free, with me being only 40 i'm way off so need to be on something i guess x i'm taking vaginal ovestin to keep things at bay down there and i guess i don't feel to bad not on hrt x such a whirlwind i have to say and never expected it at such a young age
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hi anaise
had you been on hrt before you started the gel ?
did u have ovaries removed also x
what age are you now ? because if you can manage the symtoms and you are normal menopause age ie 51/52 then you could go hrt free, with me being only 40 i'm way off so need to be on something i guess x i'm taking vaginal ovestin to keep things at bay down there and i guess i don't feel to bad not on hrt x such a whirlwind i have to say and never expected it at such a young age
Estrogel and before Evorel patches, I've had a full hysterical ectomy no eimb ir ovaries. I'm older than you Sammie so it's not imperative I keep on the Estrogen. I just couldn't cope with losing anymore hair which is why I've come off it. Glad to report that my hair is growing back and no further losses. Hope you find a solution soon.
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hi anaise
did you shed hair on the everol patches prior to the estrogen ?
u mention if i read it correct u have no ovaries . did you ever try progesterone. x
i've got blood test tomorrow morning as my GP is going to test my progesterone and estrogen again and then go from there what hrt i take at the moment i'm not on anything x
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hi anaise
did you shed hair on the everol patches prior to the estrogen ?
u mention if i read it correct u have no ovaries . did you ever try progesterone. x
i've got blood test tomorrow morning as my GP is going to test my progesterone and estrogen again and then go from there what hrt i take at the moment i'm not on anything x
Yes I shed on Evorel too, I haven't tried progesterone because I don't need it and i don't want to take the risk attached to it. x
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hi anaise
did u have endometriosis because normally a progesterone is advised due to estrogen that's unopposed stimulating any remaining endometrial tissue (edson metroid is growing back ) x
i still think unopposed estrogen causes hairloss in some women myself being one , i wouldn't say my hair has stopped shedding completely but is better less on the brush and floor the only thing i've noticed though is scalp pain irritation since stopping estrogen as been almost 2 weeks . when i initially started hrt i wa son elleste solo mx 40 and didn't shed hair but was only on them 6 weeks and i think stopping them for a period of 5 weeks then starting vagifem has triggered my hair to go into shedding before starting the gel and had continued and possibly got worse . so i'll stay hrt free for couple more weeks see what's happens but i may start on a combined regime and see x if i can last without my sleep cause that's gone to pot x lol
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afternoon ladies
merry xmas to you all x
please can i your advice
as you know i been shedding hair and thought it may of been caused by initiating estrogen !
i've been using estrogel 2 pumps prior to this and after my hysterectomy 5 years ago no HRT and no hairloss .
i've stopped the estrogel now 2 weeks , the first week i thought yep it's the estrogel causing the hairloss as shedding virtually stopped after 3 days however into second week shedding started again and has continued to be the same if not couple of hairs more when being on the estrogen . i'm having blood test to check level of progesterone although i suspect this will be zero as no ovaries but my Gp wanted to get a baseline and then i guess compare the ration of estrogen progesterone and testosterone to see where we are at x
am i jumping the gun and do i need to remain of the estrogen for longer due to the hair cycle (3 months ) i'm paranoid that it's going to get worse and worse so panicking now thinking i need to get back on hrt and quick lol x
the gel i guess was suiting me as i've noticed my sleep is rubbish since coming off although mood better and i think this is why the doctor is thinking imbalance in hormones i guess what is need to do is try all 3 estrogel. utrogestan and testosterone ! i am worries though and would like your thoughts on utrogestan have you found this to worsen hairloss and does this inhibit testosterone effects converting to dht x
hope you all have a lovely xmas xxx
please any advice or your experiences greatly appreciated xx
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Sammiejane, do you have other symptoms of high DHT like more facial hair of body hair. Do you have a lot of pimples, greasy skin of maybe acne?
Do you know your SHBG- level?
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hi alicess
not really sweet i get the odd hair sprout on my chin but always that my recent estradiol test was 368pmol then 10 days later 113pmol and SHBG was 123.8
not sure what the SHBG was on the 368 reading as they forgot to test it and testosterone has varied from 0.6 to 0.9 so on the low side. x
FSH was 36 i think
i'm having bloods tomorrow both estrogen and progesterone to see if an imbalance at play xx
i guess though if i am hun a shed hair regardless of estrogen or no estrogen i may as well be on it it's very disheartening being only 40 if i was normal menopause age i wouldn't care x lol
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SHBG- doesn't change that much unless you have increased your estrogen. I hope blood tests will give you soms answers. X
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Hello
I wonder if I can get some advice? I have been on Utrogestan for 17/18 days and would it be bad to stop the oral every day now and do vaginally every other day until Day 25 ....then wait for a bleed..then start the Utrogestan again on day 1 every other day vaginally?
Argghhh I feel tearful and weird but not irritable...
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Hello everyone
Am changing the way I take the Utrogestan mid way through - so on Day 20 I have changed to vaginal every other day - do I keep doing this through the bleed? I have a feeling I do - so am following my instincts ...feel much better now day 16 - 19 has passed but am still changing it to vaginally to help the PMS feelings...any help gratefully accepted!!!
Happy Christmas everyone cxxxx :P
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hi ladies
it's been 3 weeks since stopping the estrogel still continuing with ovestin twice weekly .
my hair shedding did improve first week and stopped however short lived as second and third week has got worse so my question is do i need to give it longer or if it was the medication causing it should it of stopped by now ?
i'm wondering too whether to go back on the gel and take progesterone too and see if it's now an imbalance at play . my GP has done. a blood test before xmas of estrogen and progesterone to see what the progesterone is as a baseline as i think she is thinking maybe an imbalance as the ratio between these two hormones if not in balance can favour estrogen being dominant and cause excessive shedding but also if i'm going to be taking testosterone , i've read that progesterone also inhibits 5a reductase and stops testosterone converting to dht ?
any advice ladies appreciate as always x
thank u
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Sammiejane, obviously I'm no expert on hair loss but I do wonder if you could be suffering with hormone imbalance. Oestrogen dominance (oestrogen spikes) might be your problem but you won't know for sure until you have your test results. Your doctor can then work out the correct ratio.
My migraines were caused by oestrogen spikes so chances are it causes other problems too. I need progesterone as a stabiliser to stop the spikes.
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hi mary g
thank you for your reply may i ask what estrogen and progesterone you are on ?
do you take testosterone at all ?
thank u
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Sammiejane, I'm using one pump of Oestrogel, a tiny bead of testosterone and 50mg bespoke progesterone every day.
My progesterone is not the same as Utrogestan because it is half the dose and it is absorbed differently meaning no side effects. It's is not available on the NHS I'm afraid.
You might find this oestrogen/progesterone ratio calculator useful.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/pg-e2-ratio
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hi mary g
so if i was on 2 pumps estrogel would 100mg utrogestan be sufficent ?
have u had any hair since starting your regime ?
and did you start estrogel progesterone and testosterone at the same time ?
thanks mary
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Sammiejane, I started off on Oestrogel and testosterone every day and took Utrogestan cyclically for a number of years. I don't suffer with hair loss but I did shed more hair than I do now on my current continuous combined regime.
Because you are very young and you don't have a womb, you probably need more oestrogen than me (I'm 58) but you have a lot of flexibility where progesterone is concerned because you only need it as a hormone stabiliser/balancer and not for womb protection.
In your situation, I would look at transdermal progesterone cream because it has fewer side effects. I wonder if 100mg Utrogestan is a bit heavy duty in your case? Have you tried Utrogestan yet and if so, how did you find it?
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hi mary g
not really tried it yet did sort of 4 days then stopped but my menopause clinic said i can take it as it wouldn't do any harm and the dose would be 100mg continuous daily but wondering how much estrogen to take to balance it 2-3 pumps ?
when i took the pill microgynon 30 this had 30mg estrogen and 150mg levongestrel and i was fine on the pill no side effects but they won't put me on it as i'm 40 and smoke x
so my options are a patch or gel with utrogestan and have been given trostan to but i'm wondering if to start again hrt on 2 pumps gel the progesterone and trostan 3 times week at the same time for balance rather then adding in one hormone then another then another as this in my mind will cause more fluctuations x
thank u
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Im 52 ,been nearly 2 years without a period , ive been on Estrogel/Utrogestan for over 3 months ive just started a period which is quite heavy with some clotting, anyone else ?😫😫
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Hi belle67
If you are taking the utrogestan continuously then it is very common to have bleeding or spotting during the first 6 months of any continuous combined HRT. Hopefully it will settle, but this will partly depend also on the dose of gel as well as the dose of utrogestan and whether you take it (the utro) orally or vaginally. On higher oestrogen doses and 100 mg oral progesterone you may find that bleeding or spotting continues - it just depends. Keep an eye on it and if it persists or there is a worrying amount of bleeding or you are at all worried, then do go to your doctor to get checked out.
Are you feeling better generally on this HRT?
Hurdity x
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when i took the pill microgynon 30 this had 30mg estrogen and 150mg levongestrel and i was fine on the pill no side effects but they won't put me on it as i'm 40 and smoke x
It contains 30 MCG (micrograms) of ETHINYL ESTRADIOL. Equivalent to at least 15 mg oral estradiol, in terms of hepatic effects, less so in terms of relief of menopausal symptoms such as hot flushes, about 1.5-3 mg oral estradiol.
Levonorgestrel is a progestin, somewhat androgenic. The content is 150 MICROGRAMS.
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Erica28, when you say hepatic effect do you mean SHBG-?
After being on birth control for a very long time I was put on HRT and it send me straight into menopause including all symptoms and it aged me in just a few weeks. No matter how high a dose of HRT (400 mg patches of 8 pumps Estrogel) symptoms (incl. hot flashes) just got worse and worse with no going back. Ethinylestradiol isn't working anymore, 1,5 mg of Estradiol, besides everything else, also gave me a beard on my chin and made me suicidal.
SHBG- is higher then 200
Free testosterone not measerable
So can you compare Ethinylestradiol with Estradiol as EE isn't bound by SHBG while Estradiol is? I feel no amount of Estradiol will ever come close to the potency of EE.
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I am 52 with regular periods. My December period didn't arrive though( first missed period ever apart from pregnancies). I started on the gel for the first time around the time it didn't turn up. Was due to start the tablets today but it has turned up today. I don't understand why I can't just use the gel if my body is producing enough of its own progesterone to cause a bleed.
if i start the tablets now then I'll bleed again in 2 weeks surely?
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erika28
hi erika28
so if i'm taking the estrogel how many pumps would i need roughly to balance 100mg utrogestan ? would this be 2/3
as i mentioned i was fine on the pill and suited me very well x
currently was using 2 pumps of gel but had lots hair shedding so have stopped it for time being been off it a month feel ok no different really less bloated and moody but hair still shedding but as i have no ovaries i'm looking at taking combined regime to see if it helps it may not i may feel worse but have to explore all avenues x my levels of estrogen have varied over the year being 195 pmol after 3 mths then 6 mths 104pmol then 10 mths 368pmol one week and the following week 113 pmol as they missed off shbg test first time round but was 123.8 on second one with E being 113 and T 0.8 and Fsh 38
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Hi Sammijane, I feel the same as you about getting the dosage right! I was on 2 pumps oestrogel, 100mg utrogestan and 1 pump tostran gel daily. I have never had my hormone levels checked. It definitely stopped my hot flushes after using for 12 weeks, but then got severe persistent thrush which I have had a weeks course of Flucanozole from my GP to try and get rid of it, so I have stopped all the hormones for now 2 weeks ago and will do for a couple more weeks until it settles and then try again. I never felt particularly marvellous so far while on HRT, but then have had the coughing winter bug for 6 weeks so that might have had something to do with feeling pretty rubbish!
Anyone else just restarted again after a few weeks?..my hot flushes haven't re-appeared yet at which I'm quite surprised, I thought they would come back straight away??!! Thanks
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Hi Julia Dizzy - I think we've spoken before - that is a scarily high amount of testosterone.
Re stopping and starting HRT - I stopped for 3 months once (patches and progesterone) but flushes and sweats and other symptoms came back in full by this time so I restarted. They didn't come back in 2 weeks but started to reappear soon afterwards. It's fine to restart but I would restart the Tostran at 2 pumps per week up to a max of 3 which is the BMS recommendation. I would certainly also ask for T levels to be checked as they should be (as well as SHBG) by the clinic who prescribed it to you, private or NHS. Some effects of T take longer than 3 months so you don't want to build up to having an excess. I would also want to have oestrogen levels tested to make sure you are absorbing (as you are also taking T) to make sure your're not tipping the ratio of oestrogen/testosterone towards T dominance.
Hurdity x
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Yep I thought that Julia Dizzy - scary amount of testosterone!!! My prescription and my label on Tostran says a pump a day but I know that that is the usual prescription for a man so I have always gone by what is said on here "pea size blob" two or 3 times a week max! xx
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julia dizzy
i've been 5 weeks of my estrogel and haven't had any symtoms really reappear other then couple of hot flushes at night no worse then prior hrt and vaginal dryness a little worse and sleep out the window but that's it , my hair still shedding so i think perhaps estrogel was helping it and maybe for me it's more an imbalance at play . my GP wanted to do a progesterone test to get a baseline and as expected this is low at 1 i believe or u set 1 my estrogen has dropped to 37 .
i've asked gp to do another blood test before i start hrt again to see what level testosterone is not on estrogen as i understand it taking estrogen hrt can cause testosterone levels to plummet so it would be interesting to see what mine are .
i honestly don't think i can go much longer without though although my mood has improved massively no ups and downs more even keel and aniexty gone so when i restart i'm going to try E and P .
i've also read regarding hairloss is that the hair continues to shed at the same rate but when u have low E this dosent stimulate hair regrowth which is why the hairs thins not sure if this is right but makes sense x lol
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Thanks Hurdity, my tostran pump says one or two pumps daily as per meno clinic gynae Dr!! I shall heed your excellent advice though when I decide to restart HRT and space it out through the week. I shall wait a bit longer though to make sure the thrush has properly gone, don't want it coming back again, as I definately think the HRT caused it. My own Dr said I didn't have to be on HRT and it was my choice but the benefits outweigh the risks, but I do find it all rather frustrating.
I would like to try the Fem7 conti patches when they become available again?, Dr suggested those at my first visit to Meno clinic, but they were not available so he gave me the gel and utrog and said could go on those later on?.
I go back at end of Feb and shall ask to get my levels tested if he will (what is SHBG please??)
Sammi Jane I hope you get sorted and your hair loss settles down, it really is a minefield isn't it!!🤔
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Hi Julia Dizzy - sorry - I always abbreviate as it takes so long to write everything in full so take short cuts so i can fit in as many responses as I can in a short time! Google will always tell you but here is one source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_hormone-binding_globulin
Hurdity x
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Hi
Sorry if this question has been covered already. So, I used Utrogestan vaginally for the first time two nights ago. Does any of the capsule or it's content escape the next day when you go to the loo?
Has anyone noticed this?
Thanks Jeepers
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yes Jeepers - sometimes I get white bits like Birdy. Its normal.
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I always get white bits in the loo in the morning when using utrogestan.
Hurdity x
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Hi all, I've lost the link thats been posted previously, regarding the right balance of oestrogen and progesterone.
Can someone repost plz.
Many thanks
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depends Winnie what regime you are on. If it is utrogestan and you are supposed to have it every day then 100mg is fine. If you are on a cycle then it is 200mg for 12 days per month. The higher amount is because of the shorter time if you see what I mean.
Are you talking about utrogestan or some other progesterone? x
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Just an update after about 10 days of switching from 50mcg Evoril Conti to
2 x pumps Oestrogel
1 x 100mg Utrogestan
Testogel daily
No change in any symptoms apart from sleeping a bit better, assuming that is the Utrogestan.
I don't expect to feel any better with the Testogel yet, I know that can take some time.
And my Oestrogel dose is the equivalent to the 50mcg Evoril Conti I was on before and I felt dreadful on that but she couldn't up it until my BP was down.
Good news is that my BP readings for the week have been really good so I will email my private GP with that, so she should give me the go ahead to up my Oestrogel dose, I cannot wait! I haven't felt well for nearly 3 years so any improvement, whenever that comes, I will grab with both hands :-)
Just an update ladies.
Morning
3 pumps x Oestrogel
1 x pea sized Testogel
At Night
1 x 100mg Utrogestan capsule a night
Been doing this regime for about 2 and a half months now.
My severe weekly migraines have gone, I get the odd headache every now and then but nothing like what I was getting. I am seeing a Naturopath at the same time who has been absolutely wonderful as well. The pains in my liver have gone, so has the vertigo. I do still have fatigue though. I am taking an iron spray for this.
Saw my private doctor for a follow up last week, we had another hormone test done to see what was going on.
22.10.2019
Testosterone - 0.4 nmol/L
SHBG - 64 nmol/L
Oestradiol - 44 pmol/L
31.1.2020
Testosterone - 0.5 nmol/L
SHBG - 71 nmol/L
Oestradiol - 434 pmol/L
So as you can see, I am absorbing the oestrogen well but my testosterone has not really done anything.
Dr McCulloch said to increase my Testogel dose very slightly - I am having no negative side effects with Testogel so far.
She said my oestrogen levels are good now.
I am just not sure if this is the 'best' I am going to feel, if you see what I mean. I have been feeling awful for about 3 years that I have forgotten what 'good' or 'normal' feels like. Not having the migraines is like a new lease of life but I do still feel tired. I asked her if I could try 4 pumps for a while to see if I feel even better, she said it was up to me but to keep her posted. My flushes have really decreased.
Would I feel better if I didn't take Utrogestan every night? I know some of you ladies do that. She said if I wanted to go down that route, she wanted me to try it for a couple of weeks and the rest of the month, take a double dose. See if I notice any change in mood etc.....
As I said, I have no idea what 'good and normal' feels like, just want to make sure I am on the best regime that I can be on :-)
But it is generally going well with my private doctor and my naturopath. I feel listened to. They understand what is going on in my body and that has taken so much anxiety away. At least I know my regime can be tweaked if needs be.
Would appreciate any comments or advice.
Hope you are doing well ladies xxx
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Hi heavenlyblue - thanks for the update and glad you are feeling better. Re the progesterone - are you taking this orally or vaginally? Personally I would not want to do the alternate day thing with that dose of oestrogen and those levels because it could lead to breakthrough bleeding - but interesting idea from your specialist to try half the month on half the dose and the other half on double the dose.
The ongoing fatigue could be due to the daily utrogestan or the so far ineffectivenss of the testosterone. Do you have other symptoms like low libido or muscle pain etc especially after exercise?
How wonderful that your migraines have gone! That is one excellent result! Long may it last :)
Hurdity x
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Hello, I'm posting this here as probably most relevant to this group. Any advice gratefully received.
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I've posted a few times and have sought advice on spotting while on oestrogel and utrogestan. I have been on various forms of HRT for about 4 years. The only one that controlled my cycle was Elleste Duet, but it gave me horrendous headaches. Since then, I have felt best on Femoston and more recently Oestrogel, both of which control my menopause symptoms but not my bleeding. As I am constantly battling anaemia and work full time in a challenging role, this is getting on top of me. After chatting with Hurdity (thank you!) I decided to stop the utrogestan to induce a proper bleed, rather than the constant spotting, with a view to going back on to a sequi regime and perhaps weaning off. This has indeed induced a full on bleed I have also, rightly or wrongly, reduced my Oestrogel to one and a half pumps (3 days ago) to see how I go. I wonder if the spotting is due to my levels being too high as I'm quite small and also eat a plant based diet so lots of soy etc. Who knows??? (And yes, I take iron supplements - my iron stores are generally better than they were when I ate meat as I now eat a more balanced diet). Could too much oestrogen and too little progesterone result in the problems I've been having? Would 1and a half and even 1 pump of Oestrogel (assuming my flushes etc still remain under control) be ok to use with 100mg vaginal utrogestan for 12 days, or should I use 200mg utrogestan? 12 days of 100mg has induced a withdrawal bleed (with 2 pumps oesrogel). I have a telephone appointment with my doctor on 11th, but while she is understanding she seems a bit clueless about hormone levels and dosage that deviates from the patient information leaflet. At 55 I'm curious to know where I'm at, although I do seem to ovulate and my own cycle kick in at least every 3 months.
X
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hi heavenly blue
a very quick question has your regime of 3 pumps gel utrogestan and testogel did you start all 3 together ?
have you had any hair shedding on the regime x
thank you
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Hi ladies,
Need some help - totally fed up!! Started estrogel 3 pumps & androfeme 0.5ml in a morning. Utrogestan 100mg orally at night & vagifem every other night & vagisil as needed (regularly).
Apart from no hot flushes & sleeping a bit better - I am feeling no better. Very sore and spotting every couple of weeks. So tired and low mood. I thought I would have more energy, be less depressed, even maybe help burning mouth - but feel about the same. Do you think I should pack it in?? Don't see gyn till June. Also take Duloxetine for depression/anxiety/burning mouth.
Advise needed PLEASE!!!
Lucyjo x
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Lucyjo....how long have you been on this regime?
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Hi Dotty, sorry - meant to say that I started october 2019 x
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Hi Lucyjo
You may need an increase in the Oestrogel if you're not noticing any improvements after 3 months. However HRT can take longer than 3 months to have full effect x
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Should I increase oestrogel to 4 pumps? What about the androfeme???
Thanks x
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Hi Lucyjo - "apart from no hot flushes and sleeping a bit better" - these are major positive effects!!! If you are taking utrogestan all the time, especially orally this can have a permanent sedative effect - ie tiredness and low mood You say you are taking ADs - is this from lifelong depression or hormonal anxiety/low mood due to menopause - and did you start these drugs approx the time when menopausal symptoms began and your periods might have stated going awry? If so I would really focus on getting the HRT dose/balance right as ADs are not recommended for menopausal symptoms including low mood (unless serious depression). I would see if it is the utrogestan before increasing the oestrogen dose if the latter has eased your flushes. However this would mean taking it cyclically and having a bleed - so you might not fancy this! How are old are you? Taking HRT is always a compromise for those of us with a womb. ie we either have to put up with the side effects of the progesterone or put up with a bleed! Hope you get sorted.
Hurdity x
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Can I just say that not everyone gets side effects from Utrogestan. I am fine and I take it every day xxx
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hi
i agree with dotty that not every side effect is progesterone i think some ladies need to look at estrogen either brand dose application
i was on the gel too and all those symtoms described i had on the gel estrogel and i was on 2 pumps and my estrogen levels were not necessary low i think it would be wise to have your blood levels tested as u may find you have to much estrogen or it could be the gel just not suiting you i felt very thick headed and fatigued on estrogel and i don't have a womb but i am trying it with progesterone to balance things out and apart from headaches weeing more i feel ok in progesterone utrogestan . the only issues is for me i've been applying gel to my arms and am getting pains like trapped gas so tonight will use on thighs instead .
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hi birdy
i disagree i think it does matter where u apply it the same as patch some women are better with it on their bottom rather then abdomen and when i tried the patch on the bottom i got bad back ache and burning sensation out it on my abdomen and was fine
i think it does vary same with the gel as i?m less bloated using on my arms compared to thigh
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Hi heavenlyblue - thanks for the update and glad you are feeling better. Re the progesterone - are you taking this orally or vaginally? Personally I would not want to do the alternate day thing with that dose of oestrogen and those levels because it could lead to breakthrough bleeding - but interesting idea from your specialist to try half the month on half the dose and the other half on double the dose.
The ongoing fatigue could be due to the daily utrogestan or the so far ineffectivenss of the testosterone. Do you have other symptoms like low libido or muscle pain etc especially after exercise?
How wonderful that your migraines have gone! That is one excellent result! Long may it last :)
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity, hope you are doing well :-)
The lab made a mistake with my oestrogen levels!
It said 434 pmol/L
It should have been 147 pmol/L
So that may explain my tiredness possibly. I am still not getting enough oestrogen. My doctor now wants me to up to 4 pumps a day.
My testosterone levels have hardly risen at all so she has told me to up my Testogel dose. Libido is more or less the same....as in practically non existent.
I am taking Utrogestan once a night, orally. I may give it a go for one month, not taking it for two weeks, then doubling up for the next two weeks, just to see if I feel any different.
Can I ask you ladies about application of the Oestrogel?
I have been doing
One pump on each outer thigh
One pump on arm - elbow to shoulder
I have been rubbing it in so there is no tackiness.
Now I am starting 4 pumps, I have also read to put it on inner thigh not outer (2 pumps in the morning and 2 at night) so no arms.
And not to rub it in, just to apply a thin layer and let it dry...?.confused...?..
Just want to check I am applying it correctly and on the correct parts of my body.
Thank you all xxx
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hi heavenly blue
a very quick question has your regime of 3 pumps gel utrogestan and testogel did you start all 3 together ?
have you had any hair shedding on the regime x
thank you
Hi Sammiejane
I was on 2 pumps initially, with the daily oral Utrogestan and Testogel. I had to get my blood pressure down before they would up me to 3 pumps. I was on 2 pumps for around a month.
No hair shedding. I have an awful lot of thick hair - could do with a bit of shedding...our hoover hides when it sees me! ;D
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Hi heavenly blue ... I use 4 pumps of gel and I put 2 pumps on each shoulder and outer arm every morning. There is no need to split the dose.
I use Utrogestan orally every night and I use Testogel or Tostran .
Your tiredness is probably due to low oestrogen . Did you feel exhausted before you started the Oestrogel? Exhaustion was one of my worst symptoms. If you felt exhausted before starting HRT then it is unlikely to be the Utrogestan causing it.
Once I was on the correct dose of oestrogen the exhaustion started to go. I've been on this regime for 2 years with no side effects and I'm doing well. X
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Hi heavenly blue ... I use 4 pumps of gel and I put 2 pumps on each shoulder and outer arm every morning. There is no need to split the dose.
I use Utrogestan orally every night and I use Testogel or Tostran .
Your tiredness is probably due to low oestrogen . Did you feel exhausted before you started the Oestrogel? Exhaustion was one of my worst symptoms. If you felt exhausted before starting HRT then it is unlikely to be the Utrogestan causing it.
Once I was on the correct dose of oestrogen the exhaustion started to go. I've been on this regime for 2 years with no side effects and I'm doing well. X
Hi Dotty
I have quite slim arms - one pump takes ages to rub in. If I did 2 on each arm I would be sliding out of the bathroom!
Yes I was exhausted before using Utrogestan. I have just started with 4 pumps just wasn't there if it mattered where you put it and if you rubbed it in well or left it a little tacky.
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heavenlyblue, I apply to my thighs and when I was on a bigger dose, all over my upper arms too. I rub it in until it feels just a bit tacky.
Thank you. Because the last few weeks, my oestrogen level has only risen from 44 to 171 with 3 pumps, I just want to make sure I am putting it on the right bits of body and applying it properly.
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Hi I have thin arms too, but I don't have a problem. Just apply it and it's dry within a few minutes. X
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Decided to put do 2 x pumps on each leg (outer and inner thigh) - all 4 pumps in the morning. See how I go.
I am so tired all of the time. Really hope this extra pump of oestrogel and increasing my dose of Testogel is going to help.
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Good luck with that hevanelyblue! Your tiredness may well be due to taking progesterone continuously as well as not enough oestrogen. Although some women are quite happy with this (Dotty ;) ) others hate it and it gives a permanently sedating effect and fog-inducing, headaches etc. If you don't see an improvement within a few weeks I would look to going back onto a cycle maybe - although this does mean having a bleed :(. For some of us this is a lesser of evils...
Hurdity x
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hi
i?m applying gel to my arms but last 2 days have noticed them getting ache and heavy and skin feels tight is this normal with it subside
i used to apply to thighs but didn't like the feel and felt as though my thighs had swollen but seems i?m getting the same on my arms it wears off throughout the day then i apply again and same thing x
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hi birdy
i guess i?ll see how it goes i?m hoping it temporary! i initial got gas trapped feeling in shoulder to left then right but this has gone so hoping it does if not then a change of estrogen method is in order i think x
thank u
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I don't have those feelings either Sammiejane but there is ethanol in the delivery mechanism for the gel. Sometimes the skin doesn't like alcohol and maybe that's what's giving you the "weird tight" feeling or the strange feeling on you legs?
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Hi all, I'm after some advice please.
How many of you either get tested for your oestrogen, progesterone and/or testosterone levels, 2 help with ur HRT?
Also, how many of you see consultants, menopause clinics etc?
I've just come back from GP, feel like I've been fobbed off yet again..ive been taking HRT since July last yr, still not got dose right, and Dr can't see the point in any tests or referrals.
.Ive asked for either Menopause Clinic or Gynae or Endocrinologist, but she can't see how that will help.
I think I need to show that others get this on the Nhs if possible.thanks in advance.
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Hi Winnie, I haven't had any blood tests for hormones either. I also wonder how to get them done. I'll watch to see what you are advised by the lovely ladies!!! x
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I have never had any hormone tests done Winnie by my doctor or the clinic. They have always gone by "controlling symptoms". Its harder when you are in peri because your own hormones fluctuate so it is only a snapshot of the levels at the time the test was taken which may then dip much later in the day or the next day. Doses are all trial and error cos the level and type that works for me will be completely different for you.
I was referred to an NHS meno clinic but only got one consultation. The rest is done with my GP.
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hi
i get my levels tested every 4 months however i am under menopause clinic due to early surgical menopause
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Hello amazing MM people,
I'm hoping you can help. I've tried searching this thread but I'm having a massive anxiety/brain fog meltdown at the moment and losing the will to...you know!
I switched to estrogel/utrogestan a few months ago due to the patch drought ( previously on evorel sequi for 3 yrs)
None of my GP 's are knowledgeable about it and they are not helpful about dosage and have prescribed different doses randomly asking me what I do and how much I want - I dont know the answer!
I find it difficult to remember to take both the gel and the tablets so I'm not doing well on it yet
Getting some hot flushes, loads of itching and right now have the sad-anxious-rage which I find so very hard to deal with. My period is week late so PMT is extended. I have a lot of additional life stress at the mo so it's all in a big ball of agggghhhh
In lack of GPS guidance I took myself onto 4 pumps gel a day ...one month I took 200 utrogestan and got lots of PMT so cut it to 100 utro...could that be why no bleed this month? Is 4 pumps giving too much oestrogen ?
Thanks for reading
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I have just changed from ultrogestan orally to vaginally as my breasts were really tender. I have been going this for a week but feel like i am now getting too much progesterone. Terrible nightmares awful sleep headaches. I have been using 100 vaginally every night but some guidance on the site suggests alternate nights . I'm confused can any one clarify for me the continuous vaginal dose?
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I'm with Stellajane, Miss-shelf - 4 pump is considered a higher dose so you would need 200mg x 12 days in order to shed the womb lining. Its very trial and error regarding pumps as to what balances the symptoms for you. How long have you been on the gel since the change over? The starting dose is usually 2 pumps and then you should build up if the symptoms don't come under control by half a pump each time but what I found with gel is that it takes quite a while to adjust. So when started I upped half a pump and waited a week and then went again. Its quite a tortuous process but worth it when it hits the right spot.
It is possible 4 is too much for you drop, half a pump and see how you go.
I also take my utogestan vaginally so it minimises side effects on the stomach and the liver but I take it on the same cycle as Miss-self 200mg x 12 days. I believe Pauline b that you can take it every other night 100mg if your on a low dose oestrogen but the actual normal written up dose for utrogestan by Besins is 100mg every night on continuous. I have leaftlet from Besins and I think it is on their website which has a little chart on it for both continuous and cycle doses.
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Hi Miss-Shelf if you were on Evorel Sequi then the equivalent dose of gel is 2 pumps x
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Hi
I have been wondering whether to pay for blood tests privately as have been on hrt (now on 4th brand) for around a year, with some improvements in symptoms but still really struggling with the sleep (i now think 6 hours, never continuously, is a ?result?) and anxiety - i have a stressful and demanding job and about to start a new role so really need to be able to function normally! Recently night sweats returned so i asked my GP if she thought my dosage should be increased , so immediately she doubled it (kliofern 2mg/1mg). My appointments are always rushed, and i just feel like shes trying to get me out the room (which to be fair she probably needs to as always seems to have too many to see, running late etc - symptom of the nhs). I haven't directly asked for a blood test, but was refused one when i was peri menopausal. I also have zero sex drive, so low it doesn't bother me, but not great for my poor long suffering husband. I asked about testosterone level possibly being low but GP categorically told me that testosterone not available on nhs (wonder why its written about on nhs website?). Any views on whether my gp would agree to a blood test and/or whether a private consultation would be worth it - local consultants charge around ?400 including blood test cost?
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hi
with regard to breast tenderness and pain
i've been on gel only and had horrific pain swelling enlargement in breast that i couldn't touch them or wear a bra
i?m now in combined with utrogestan and pain isn't half as bad as it was
i've been advised by GP if the pain is at the top of breast and around nipple this is estrogen related it it's under boob this is progesterone .
and this is true as when i was just on gel my pain was localized to nipple area x
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Can I have some advice please. I am in my first month of this HRT. Done two weeks of two pumps and one week of three pumps along with one week so far 200mg ultra. Dont feel any better. Did three months before of conti which gave me terrible mood swings. Should I increase to four pumps. Any advice appreciated. X
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I wonder if anyone can help me, I still have a cycle and I have started on Estraderm 50 patches and utro, my Dr said to use patches continual and utro 100mg 1-26 which I found odd so I'm doing utro days 15-26. My period has come early on day 24 so I'm still taking utro. My question is do I need to be taking 200mg utro to lengthen my cycle as I thought the bleed doesn't come until you stop the utro ?. ;D
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Hi Baby, It's really early days for you. What I would say is that gel is a "slow burn". Takes a while to settle especially after a change from one type of hrt to another. Stick with the 3 pumps for at least a whole month. It is usually a good idea not to mess with the number of pumps for at least a month at a time. To start low and work up. It gives you a better idea of what is actually happening to you body. It took me 5 months to see an improvement and get the number of pumps right. Although doctors and consultants say a minimum of 3 months on any hrt regime before you might see proper improvement I would say that gel is one of the ones that can take the full 3 months to get a result. It's like it all happens at the end of the 3 months. I know everyone is different but from doing a lot of reading on the forum, that is the opinion I have built up about the gel.
You might end up on 4 pumps at the end of 3 months but my opinion is that if you jump straight up to 4 then it might be too much for the body to adjust to all at once and you end up with side effects. I found slow and steady wins the race! xx
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Thanks for your reply Stellajane. I'm slightly confused, do I count day 1 of my cycle the day I stopped the utero and start it again day 15, or do I count cycle day 1 as day 24 when my period started ? :-\ . I'm unsure when to start the utero again.
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I have done quite a bit of reading of this brilliant forum. I am 45, diagnosed with osteoporosis, had irreg periods for 9 years, often every 6-9 months, started on HRT 9 months ago as i was starting to have menopausal symptoms of hot sweats, anxiety, low libido, poor energy and brain fog and poor sleep. Blood tests were normal. I am on 2.5 pumps of oestrogel and 200mg utro day 15-26 orally. Generally my symptoms have improved. My oestrogen level when checked last was about 500, my testosterone level was on the upper end of normal. I have had one bleed in 9 months despite being on the cyclical regime. My libido is still non existent, and i have had really achy joints over the last few months (this can sometimes keep me awake). My energy levels arent great. I did still get periods of anxiety but its loads better.
My question is about testosterone. I have read a fair amount about it and some members have been so helpful and knowledgeable (hurdity especially!). I think people who prescribe it tend to go on symptoms only? My SHBG was quite high but FAI looked to be in the normal range. I know that everyone reacts differently to different hormone levels. Would my increase in oestrogen levels affect the testosterone? Is it worth trying higher oestrogen? Any thought on why I am not having a bleed? (I get period pain though its manageable).
Any ideas appreciated, I do have a really nice nurse at the menopause clinic and I saw an endocrinologist but they werent sure why I have early osteoporosis (no risk factors as oestrogen levels were normal), I know that low T can cause osteoporosis. Hormones are a minefield!
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hi ladies
i?m using progesterone as a mood stabilizer and 2 pumps gel it has been 3 weeks however i?m know not sleeping as great and come 4pm on wards i?m getting really bad headaches and vagina is dryer and i?m constipated x
do i need to increase the estrogen to 3 pumps or is progesterone not suiting me i use utrogestan x
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It maybe the progesterone sammiejane - I know you wanted to try it but taking it continuously as you are doing can lead to some of the side effects you mention.
tbett - I answered on your other thread.
Hurdity x
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hi hurdity
thank you for replying
as it's early days do u think i should give it a little longer
i am less bloated though and my mood is so much better x
if i stop the progesterone then it means changing the gel to a patch as the gel doesn't suit me on its own. x
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hi hurdity
sorry forgot to say do u think it's worth trying 3 pumps can't do half a pump as never get the correct amount out x 3 pumps a lot of gel though so would rather a patch x.
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Hi all, thanks for your replies regarding my question a week or so ago, regarding how many of you have tests on the NHS, and/or referrals to Gynae, or endocrinologist, or menopause clinic, on the nhs.
Is there anyone else please? I'm really struggling with my symptom, and seeing my gp within the next week, and really would like to be able to see that others get this on the nhs...I'm nowhere near the right dosage to help me, of oestrodose and utrogestan, after about 8 months, and feel quite desperate. And at moment gp not helping, or agreeing to any referrals.
Thanks in advance.
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Hi all, thanks for your replies regarding my question a week or so ago, regarding how many of you have tests on the NHS, and/or referrals to Gynae, or endocrinologist, or menopause clinic, on the nhs.
Is there anyone else please? I'm really struggling with my symptom, and seeing my gp within the next week, and really would like to be able to see that others get this on the nhs...I'm nowhere near the right dosage to help me, of oestrodose and utrogestan, after about 8 months, and feel quite desperate. And at moment gp not helping, or agreeing to any referrals.
Thanks in advance.
I can only suggest you see another GP if yours refuses to refer you to a menopause clinic, or maybe make a complaint to the practice manager. I attened one and had all the necessary tests, although my GP refused to refer initially. However, he did refer me to the vulval clinic at the same hospital on the recommendation of a private dermatologist, and it was they who referred me to the meno clinic there. So not much help as I kind of did things by a back route.
JP x
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Hi thanks for your reply...dont think I'll have much joy with seeing another gp, as saw another one the other wk, who basically was saying I need to see original one as she knows me best etc, ie passing the buck really..I see an advanced nurse practitioner, who's very nice, but doesnt seem to realise how complicated this all can be!
Thanks 🙂
Hi all, thanks for your replies regarding my question a week or so ago, regarding how many of you have tests on the NHS, and/or referrals to Gynae, or endocrinologist, or menopause clinic, on the nhs.
Is there anyone else please? I'm really struggling with my symptom, and seeing my gp within the next week, and really would like to be able to see that others get this on the nhs...I'm nowhere near the right dosage to help me, of oestrodose and utrogestan, after about 8 months, and feel quite desperate. And at moment gp not helping, or agreeing to any referrals.
Thanks in advance.
I can only suggest you see another GP if yours refuses to refer you to a menopause clinic, or maybe make a complaint to the practice manager. I attened one and had all the necessary tests, although my GP refused to refer initially. However, he did refer me to the vulval clinic at the same hospital on the recommendation of a private dermatologist, and it was they who referred me to the meno clinic there. So not much help as I kind of did things by a back route.
JP x
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Hiya, I suppose if you seem to be getting on ok with the hrt, and its helping etc, then theres no need for extra referrals etc, but I can't seem to get a dose to help me, except for one symptom, and I'm giving each change 3 mths, so it's taking forever. And I'm getting quite desperate.
Thanks for your reply 🙂
My GP is really pro HRT and I never had any problem with him prescribing it, however he never ever mentioned that there was a menopause clinic I could go to.
I got my referral because I inadvertently made an appointment with a locum and was discussing with her possible alternatives to HRT for night sweats. She didn't hesitate in suggesting it!
The mysteries of the NHS.
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As mentioned before I am on my first month of gel and utro.i am doing the day 15 to 26 on the utro and have started a bleed on day 24. Is this ok. Thought the bleed came a couple of days after finishing the utro. Only a light bleed.
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Baby, I have also just started patches and utro days 15-26 and my period has also arrived day 24. I carried on with the utro but I now have no idea when to start the utro again, do I count day 1 of my period or start counting day 1 when utro is finished ?. I've made a separate post but no replies yet.
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So as I said I had a very light bleed for only a day. Then a couple of days later a bit of spotting. If i am nearing post meno would this mean i would have really light bleeding and would someone who was in early peri have heavier bleeding. I wish I had started HRT a few years ago when I suspected I was in peri. In the last six months I can see how my face has aged with many more lines. Also I have looked at my nether regions and they have definitely changed in colour and seem to be shrinking.
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Hi ladies, I have now been on 2 pumps estrogel 100mg utrogestan every day for 5 months. I have also been told by Meno clinic to use one pump Tostran 2% gel daily and have been doing so for last few weeks. I don't feel any better at all, the only positive thing is hot flushes have gone. Negatives are dreadful global anxiety still, very sore boobs more recently which feel like they are burning and swollen behind the nipple, not made much difference to the VA, tired, grumpy, bad reflux, not improved skin or joint pain. Think am just about ready to pack it in, as I feel worse that I did before, apart from the hot flushes!! Any thoughts please, am fed up of waiting to feel wonderful like I've read other ladies do!
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Sorry to hear this JuliaDizzy - that's a high dose of Tostran though. Have you had any blood tests or have these been recommended? You should be tested for testosterone and SHBG, to ensure your levels are within female physiological limits.
I get sore boobs when on the progesterone phase of my cycle so it could be that daily use is not agreeing with you? For this and other reasons (sdie effects) some of us take it cyclically, but the downside is you have to have a withdrawal bleed.
If you have ongoing VA then you will benefit from some local oestrogen which targets vaginal tissues - if you are not already taking it. Grumpiness could be due to too much T? Joint pain and tiredness - could be down to the continuous progesterone, but also inadequate oestrogen. I think your regime may need tweaking?
Can you go back to your doc and make some changes?
All the best
Hurdity x
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hi julia dizzy
i?m on the same regime as you and same dose i?m using progesterone as a stabilizer as i've had hysterectomy but estrogen well the gel didn't cut it for me yes flushes went but my mood aniexty hairloss was unbelievable i was crazy felt sucidal then full of rage so i?m taking progesterone but like you has helped mood and a little aniexty sleep flushes but i now feel nausea each morning joint pain bloating boobs a little sore but bearable it seems hrt gets rid of flushes and helps with VA somewhat but everything else takes forever and in the meantime changing doses or different brands a pain in my backside i felt great off hrt and had my op over 5 yrs ago and went hrt free for 4 yrs felt fine i introduced hrt and have a whirlwind of side effects and it's been over a year and feel no further forward but as i?m only 41 this year 35 at op i just don't know health aniexty still there as question and worry over every little thing for me i feel as though i may need more estrogen but before when i increased to 3 pumps on the gel alone i felt worse . i do believe tesosterone can sometimes be the missing key and women have found once taking this there VA improved aniexty energy libido and pelvic floor strength but again trial and error .
it does make me wonder whether synthetic hormones are better at given less side effects i had no issues when i took the combined pill got on with it all through my 20s till i was 32 only stopped to have kids but i have had a host of issues with hrt maybe the gel just dosent suit but what else is their to take they don't want me taking tablets of hrt yet there fine for me to take progesterone and patches are non existent x
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Hi ladies have never posted on this site before. I am post menopausal five years now main symptoms have been anxiety, low mood, VA & very low libedo. Have tried various HRT. Couldn't tolerate evorel conti due to northisterone making me very depressed. I have been using estriol which has helped with VA. Have recently been prescribed utrogestan 100mg per day and two pumps estrogel. Been on it a month, feeling a lot better symptoms improved the the only issue is significant pain in one breast. Had this in past on everol had mamo scan nothing of concern noted.
My question is should I continue for longer period and see if it settles this is only issue? Change to vaginal route utrogestan? I have been taking evening primrose oil and rubbing some ibuprofon gel on breast.
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Hi all
i have posted recently about having Utrogestan stopped as it is 'unsafe to use for HRT' but only apparently in the NHS Lothian area of Scotland or the UK. I cannot use other progs as I am intolerant,
My husband and i have raised a complaint and it will take time to be looked at, meanwhile my HRT is running out and now the surgery have told us the Estrogel is being not prescribed for me either.
We do intend to escalate the complaint as and when.
This is all extremely unfair and extremely upsetting.
Unfair not least because another member on here has said she still receives the utrogestan on NHS prescription and she is in the same Health Authrority. :( :(
Meanwhile, as I cannot do without HRT and I cannot take synthetic progs I am going to have to look at a private precription.
Have any members got a private prescription for this bioitentical HRT?
I have questions -
can I get the Estrogel on NHS if I get a private prescription for the Utrogestan?
Or do I need to get a prescription for both?
Could any member say how much per year it costs to have a private prescription for this type of HRT please?
I'm worried about the cost :(
Thank you so much for anyone who can help with these questions, thanks.
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Hi Clovie - I replied on your original Utrogestan thread about 10 days ago here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,45779.msg759384.html#msg759384
Not sure if you saw it?
I don't think I have anything to add to that reply except to express further sympathy for your plight in the face of doctors spouting nonsense about safety. It's a licensed medication in UK FFS! Not some unregulated hormone from a random clinic (we've had discussions about these too ::) .
Um why won't they prescribe oestrogel? I mean there is no reason for this if it is the licensed oestrogen that you use and prefer. What are they suggesting in its place?
You absolutely should NOT have to go to the expense of geting these licensed medications privately when they are available on NHS, and there is no good reason not to prescribe for you. PLEASE spend ?30 write to Dr Currie as an e-mail consultation if you have not done so already - briefly setting out what you have been prescribed and where (which authority), your appoimnets and reasons for their decisions, and ask her firstly what the position is in Scotland re prescribing utrogestan (when formularies do not have it on their list) and how to go about making sure you continue to get what is your right. She is based in Scotland (Dumfries) and will have the information at her fingertips and will be well aware of what goes on
Please look at the documents I posted on the other thread ( from last year) re the flexibility to prescribe something not recommended if it is in the patient's interest.
All the very best Clovie and if we can help further in writing the e-mail please let us know.
:bighug:
Hurdity xx
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Hi Clovie - I replied on your original Utrogestan thread about 10 days ago here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,45779.msg759384.html#msg759384
Not sure if you saw it?
I don't think I have anything to add to that reply except to express further sympathy for your plight in the face of doctors spouting nonsense about safety. It's a licensed medication in UK FFS! Not some unregulated hormone from a random clinic (we've had discussions about these too ::) .
Um why won't they prescribe oestrogel? I mean there is no reason for this if it is the licensed oestrogen that you use and prefer. What are they suggesting in its place?
You absolutely should NOT have to go to the expense of geting these licensed medications privately when they are available on NHS, and there is no good reason not to prescribe for you. PLEASE spend ?30 write to Dr Currie as an e-mail consultation if you have not done so already - briefly setting out what you have been prescribed and where (which authority), your appoimnets and reasons for their decisions, and ask her firstly what the position is in Scotland re prescribing utrogestan (when formularies do not have it on their list) and how to go about making sure you continue to get what is your right. She is based in Scotland (Dumfries) and will have the information at her fingertips and will be well aware of what goes on
Please look at the documents I posted on the other thread ( from last year) re the flexibility to prescribe something not recommended if it is in the patient's interest.
All the very best Clovie and if we can help further in writing the e-mail please let us know.
:bighug:
Hurdity xx
thank you Hurdity :tulips2: :tulips2: :tulips2:
I don't have any fight left.
Ive given my hubby permission to deal with this with the surgery etc on my nbehalf.
i feel sick with it all. I feel ve been treated very unfairly indeed.
Thank you for your other reply too, we did use some of that and some other links Ive been given in our complaint letter.
They replied to that saying the doctor I need to see (who is head GP who will decide) is unavailable until early April and is looking into it all.
however, we were told today that I ccannot haveutrogeston OR ESTROGEL now even though t is not our fault we cannot see the reqd doc until mid April.
I thought it would be only fair to continue prescribing it until then :(
I do have some Utogestan left but its no goodi if they won't give me the gel either! Why? :(
I cannot do without HRT, and I cannot take synthetic prog and even if I could surely itw would be bad form to expect someone to mess about changing HRT medications just because of such a delay
I am worn out with it all and already have anxiety and now panic attacks have returned and not had them for years. I feel so helpless.
I would very much appreciate help with wording an email to Dr Currie, and would happily pay the ?30 -ish to get her thoughts.
Sorry for any typos but I am so upset about the unfairness of all this.
Thank you so very much Hurdity xx :tulips2: :tulips2:
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Oh Clovie. it's an absolute disgrace how you are being treated.Your GP practice are being total dickheads. Sorry but I just don't get why they are being so entrenched in their views. Doesn't help you in the meantime though.
Professor Mary Anne Lumsden at Greater Glasgow Health board operates a menopause clinic . Is there any way you can get a referral outwith your area? Have you checked out Dr Perera at the Nuffield in Glasgow who was happy to write to my GP and prescribe both via the NHS? it's a total disgrace the way you have been treated so I think Hurdity has made a good suggestion in contacting Dr Currie in the first instance. Key fighting as much as you can ! Lots of love and good luck x
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Hi there Clovie - send me a message with your history in brief as a summary eg dates, treatments, who you've seen what they prescribed, which authority, specialists, what they said (re refusal or agreement to prescribe) etc and I'll see what I can do.
Hurdity x
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Hi SammieJane, Hurdity,
I'm 10 years post menopause now and only started on HRT last October due to never ending hot flushes/VA. I have been using Vagifem for about 3 years now and have just increased that to every 3rd night, as still having problems with VA around episiotomy scar tissue inside. (Not sure that will ever improve??)
I have been told I am one of the unlucky ones who will probably always have hot flushes. Great!! My gynae consultant Dr at my local BMI The Beaumont hospital (luckily referred by my GP Clovie - hope you get sorted too) started me on 2 pumps Estrogel and 100 utrogestan daily initially as I didn't want a bleed and have been using that. On my 3 month follow up visit when I said the only thing it had helped was hot flushes he suggested I increase my estrogel up to 3 pumps (2 pumps one day and 3 pumps another day) along with one pump daily of Tostran gel for global anxiety and mood. But my boobs got very sore with this regime so I cut back to 2 pumps and 1 pump Tostran every other day as previously recommended on here.
I went back to see my consultant earlier this month and told him no drastic improvement in overall well being apart from hot flushes gone. I said I had reduced my Estrogel back to 2 pumps and Tostran gel to every other day, as my boobs had got way more burny/painful and he said that amount of Tostran would do no good whatsoever and to continue using it daily. (Boobs had improved slightly by reducing gel and Tostran I felt?)
So I have gone back to 2 pumps Estrogel and 1 pump Tostran every day since last week and now boobs are going burny/painful again. Also my skin where I've been putting the Tostran gel is all flaking off so I'm thinking to just pack it in. He never suggested testing my hormone levels and said to make another appointment for June if I needed to see him, or to cancel if I was ok.
I think I will just stop the whole lot for a few months to see how I get on??? Is this wise??? Its hard to know what to do for the best. He has not suggested any other regime such as Fem7 conti patches as they are still not available.
I have just had an extended period of really bad stress due to moving my 92 year old Mum with Alzheimers out of her home of 50 years into sheltered accommodation and sorting most of it all out myself. My head was bashed!! She has finally settled in and things are quietening down now, but I feel like have been run over by a steam roller! Am taking "Together Stress aid" which has Ashwagandha and Rhodiola in it along with B vits and magnesium also Vit D and echinacea to boost my immune system especially in these extremely worrying times with the Virus.
Hope all you ladies are keeping safe! xx
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hi julia dizzy
well i?m on 2 pumps gel 100mg utro and 2 x a week ovestin
been doing ok on this for last 5 weeks but then started getting bad watery discharge and burning in vagina and my mood a little in the low side so i?m wondering if i need an extra pump of gel it's almost as though the progesterone is down regulating the estrogen around vagina and mucosal tissues in mouth and mouth dryer and skin dryer so my GP said try 3 pumps and see if boobs go sore and tender then it's to much estrogen and aniexty and nausea may come to . i don't need progesterone but using it to stabilize the estrogen in regards to mood and help with sleep but if it dosent work then i shall just stop progesterone hopefully now my estrogen levels are good i will be able to add tesosterone due to recent events i've also been doing a lot of crying and feel like progesterone is wearing pelvic floor and urethra and may possibly be given me stress incontinenece so i?ll try more estrogen and see fingers crossed x
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Hi JulieDizzy,
So I am on Utrogestan, oestrgel and tostran and have been on this regime 25 months.
Firstly, I will start with what I know and have learned about tostran. There is no testosterone designed for women only so we are using a product designed for men. The dosage of 1 pump a day is the standard dose when it is prescribed to a man for whatever they need testosterone for. My label on my tostran said 1 pump a day but I have never ever used that much. I started with half a pump every other day and then went to 1 pump twice a week and now I am down to 1 pump a week. 1 whole pump a day every day sounds like rather a lot to me JulieDizzy, and also the fact your skin is dry and flaking would indicate its too much. Don't stop just drop the amount you use to 2 pumps a week and see how you go.
Secondly, I was prescribed 2 pumps of gel a day to start but it didnt control anything so I was told to up to 4 pumps. When I did I got sore boobs and it didnt work immediately. I got a couple of other side effect I hadnt had before but after 3 weeks these all went and the gel started to control the symptoms. I was on 4 pumps for 20 months and then my body said that's too high and threw some side effects like itchiness and sore boobs again and so I am down to 2 and everything is fine.
I had been so bad before I got onto this regime that it took more than 3 months to see any effects of it controlling the symptoms. I took at least 5 months before I felt anything was happening and 7 before I would say I started to feel "better". I took nearly a whole year before I felt what I would describe as "well".
All the doctors say a minimum of 3 months on a regime but that doesnt mean it works in that time for everyone. It would have been easy for me to get to 3 months and given up but long story short I didnt have any other options to choose because I had a few different hrts which didnt work at all in any shape or form, so I persevered and I'm glad I did but its up to you JD. There are couple of other posters on here who have had similar experiences to me whereby they persevered over 3 months and nearer to 5 months before things got better, so it is a very individual thing. Its hard to work out what's going when you are starting out and I would say by and large GP's are no help at all.
You need to trust you're own judgement JulieDizzy, the whole thing is trial and error and really hrt is a slow burn and not a quick fix unfortunately. xxx Dont know if any of this helps :)
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Great advice from Ladybt!
Just need to correct the testosterone info though! I think you are referring to the testogel pump pack which is two pumps per day for men. Tostran is 6 pumps per day for men as each pump delivers a tiny amount. All the info on doses etc iare in this thread as well as links to BMS info of T for women and Chelsea and Westminster leaflet:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39588.msg666825.html#msg666825
Julia Dizzy - The recommended amount of Tostran is 2 or 3 pumps per week (or less if this suits!).
One pump per day is still too much though - over the (off-licence) recommendations and the doc should not be prescribing higher than these and especially at least if your blood T levels are not being checked which BMS suggest is wise to do. You should insist on blood tests for T and SHBG and refer your consultant to the (off-licence) guidelines, in my humble opinion. Whereas with oestrogen blood tests are not necessary as the advice is to go by symptoms, this is not so for testosterone which is, as Ladybt says, not available as licensed for women and is not our dominant hormone compared with oestrogen. If you can't get an appointment I would reduce Tostran to every other day MAX and tweak your gel dose as Ladybt suggests.
Also like I said before, taking progesterone daily doesn;t do wonders for mood for many women - who cotninue to take it cyclically and endure a bleed however unwelcome that is - since prog is all the time but cyclically only intermittently so you get a prog holiday!
Hurdity x
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Hi the up to date guidance for Tostran is 1 pump every other day, although that still may be too much . I use it 3 or 4 times a week x
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hi ladies
so i don't know what is going on i've been on 2 pumps gel and utrogestan daily but have been getting worse va
i upped time 3 pumps gel but following day felt awful to much estrogen so the next night stuck to 2 and used my ovestin as planned then thought following night i?ll use 2.5 which was last night but felt no difference today i thought the adding of utro with gel had also controlled my hair from shedding but today have lost a lot more hair whether this is due to upping and decreasing dose although this was only done over couple days i find the progesterone helping just have dry mouth and discharge watery like va worse so not sure what to do i reply thought i had break through as have been on this 6 weeks but as i don't need progesterone should i take this every other night or would this likely induce further shedding of hair also can't take gel on its own because i know this does cause shedding for me. x
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Thank you all for your kind words ladies and very helpful comments.... I decided to stop everything at the beginning of this week rightly or wrongly.... I will see how it goes and how I am feeling and I can always start again later on, or will that not work?? Will it undo the possible good I have done by taking it all for 5 months?? If the hot flushes come back then I will have to try again, because they are my worst symptom and don't want to have to put up with them. I don't get why the consultant said to use one pump Tostran every day then if it is too much?? Oh the confusion ?????!! xx
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You may well undo you're hard work over the last 5 months when just bit of tweaking would bring things into line but obviously we are all different. You can only try, but stopping and starting in my experience is not a good thing.
Lots of consultants don't know what they are talking about regarding testosterone and some arn't much more help with hrt either but 1 pump every day is absolutely too much and most of the ladies on here are agreed. x
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I have asked a question on this thread before. I am 45 years old, had irreg periods for ten years, about every 3-11 months, then started with hot flushes, VA and anxiety about a year ago. A DEXA scan showed osteoporosis so I was started on Utrogestan 200mg day 14-25 and 2 pumps estrogel. I have noticed the progesterone makes me feel quite low in mood and then anxious, also exhausted. I read on here about taking it vaginally so spoke to the HRT nurse at our local clinic. As that is off licence she wasnt happy to do that so suggested increasing the oestrogen to three pumps. Over the last nine months I have had no period despite being on a cyclical regime. I saw a consultant endocrinologist about the osteoporosis who was happy with me to experiment with the progesterone, though admitted she didnt know much about it. She did say that some progesterones are more androgenic than others (I also have very low libido constantly and small joint aches during the oestrogen only phase of my cycle). I have had oestrogen levels checked twice (they are about 5000!!). When not taking progesterone i tend to wake between 4 and 5.
I changed to taking the progesterone vaginally for the last cycle and have just had a painful heavy bleed day 2-7. I dont mind having a bleed, and my mood was slightly better with the vaginal progesterone.
My question is should I reduce the dose of the utro vaginally? My testosterone levels are fine. I know it is all just finetuning and I am willing to do that, just need some ideas. My GP has admitted I know more than her (info from this forum!), and I think the HRT nurse wasnt really sure what was going on. she may refer me to the local HRT consultant Mr Hillard, or I could see him privately. I also thought i might drop the oestrogen back to 2.5 or 2 pumps, though the endocrinologist said the estrogel can have variable absorption.
Any ideas appreciated!
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Hi TBett
Not sure it helps ,but the only thing I can comment on is your levels of 5000.
When I changed my estrodot patches as I couldn't get them I felt awful. I assumed I was not absorbing and my levels were low. I had a blood test and I was at 4000. My gynaecologist explained at that level it was as if I had 0 oestrogen as the receptors switch off when levels go too high.
No explanation why my levels went so high after relatively stable levels of 800 for a while, other than I was holding onto and storing the oestrogen maybe due to different fillers. X
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Thanks that is really helpful. I will fiddle with it. Anyone ideas about progesterone pv dose?
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Hi everyone, I've just joined and would love any advice available !
I was on Femoston Continual for a few months but was having regular short cycle periods (normal for me) which were very crampy and painful often beginning with a migraine couple of days beforehand. Previously to this I had been off HRT for 4 months but couldn't cope with the hot flushes and mood swings. The doctor said I would have one or two periods but that would be all. Since coming off of Femoston cont I've read that I should have been 12months clear of a period and well into menopause before being put on them and I was only 4 months clear. So I wonder if my body wasn't ready for this type of HRT.
Anyway I went back to the doctors 2 weeks ago to change HRT because of the periods and I'm due to start a new job. She put me on utrogestan/estrogel but then said she wanted to refer me to the 'Cancer Exclusion Clinic' to have ultrasound scan and see a Gynaecologist because I had been having periods and I was 56. I wasn't expecting to hear this and did swallow a bit hard !! That word hadn't been in my head at all !! So I have an appointment booked.
I've decided to come off the HRT altogether as I've no idea where my body is at naturally. I was only on it for 6 days (mistakenly putting 1 pump of gel on each arm !! ) and the came off. Three days later I am having another period, I've taken it that its because I've messed about with my hormones but .... I'm worried sick :'(
Does anyone have any experience of coming off this HRT? :)
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Hi, can any one tell me what the symptoms of Utrogestan intolerance are? Also where is the best place to apply for absorption of Estrogel? Thanks xx
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Those who get side effects from utrogestan report fatigue, headaches, low mood, foggy head or depression mainly. Some report bloating, breast pain and other symptoms. They can be worse if taken orally although I get head fog, even more fatigue than usual, and sometimes migraines even when used vaginally although I take it cyclically.
I would have a look through this thread to find out where members apply the gel - but it is very much an individual thing probably and whatever is convenient and also depending which time of day you apply it too maybe? I only used Sandrena briefly and applied to inner thighs. It didn't suit me though as I porefer patches. Hopefully someone else might be able to help :)
Hurdity x
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Morning Ladies
First of all, just wanted to check in with you all and hope you are coping with the madness of the world we are living in at the moment. Have been thinking of you all.
An update and advice needed - if anyone is around @hurdity
Just a recap.
When I first saw my private Dr, Dr McCulloch, last Oct, she took a hormone test. I had been on 50mcg Evoril Conti on the NHS and had awful migraines, hot flushes, exhaustion, aches, liver pains, vertigo.....you name it...?..and I was getting nowhere with the Doctors at my Surgery.
These were my results.
22.10.2019
Oestradiol - 44 pmol/L
SHBG - 64 nmol/L
Testosterone - 0.4 nmol/L
She was quite shocked at how low my levels were. She put me on 3 pumps per day of Oestrogel (applied on thighs)) and a thumb sized amount of Testogel (inner arm) - see how I go for 3 months. I also take 1 x 100mg capsule utrogestan orally at night.
3 months later
31.1.2020
Oestradiol - 171 pmol/L
SHBG - 71 nmol/L
Testosterone - 0.5 nmol/L
So as you can see, neither my testosterone or oestrogen seem to be absorbing very well.
Dr McCulloch told me to increase to 4 x pumps a day and do a larger amount of testosterone and still take 1 x Utrogestan orally at night. I have been following this regime for just over 2 months now and feel no better, although have felt a slight change in my libido, but barely anything really. I did mention to her when I saw her about not taking Utrogestan every day and she said I could try not taking it for 2 weeks then doubling up the next 2 weeks. I have not tried this yet.
Do you really think taking Utrogestan every day could really be the culprit for me feeling so exhausted? Or perhaps my skin just does not absorb gel very well and I will have to go back to a patch.
Obviously with this virus situation, I do not have a follow up appt booked but I do have a hormone kit at home, which she gave me last time, which I am going to do, very interested to see what my results are. The results will be emailed to her and she will then email me and we will take it from there.
I just haven't felt well for 3 1/2 years now, been with the NHS and now a private Doctor and yes I have made strides with the migraines and hot flushes but I just can't understand why I still feel dreadful and have no 'joie de vivre'. If I read one more interview from a 50 something celeb or non celeb...........saying 'how much they are enjoying their 50s...?..or HRT has given them their life back......'..??.will that ever be me saying that? I feel like I have just been existing ever since I turned 50, I'm now 54...?...this virus has given us all the message......we only have one life, you don't know what is around the corner so we need to make it count...?..:-(
It's hard to differentiate between what is being caused by low hormones and am I just feeling awful and low because I have been feeling poorly for so long. Bit of a vicious cycle.
Thank you for your time, I know we are all going through a lot of difficult things at the moment - stay safe everyone xxx
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Heavenlyblue it could have been me that wrote that last post! I sympathise with everything you said and feel exactly the same. Its such a struggle to find out what is the best thing to do!
I'm 63 and since last October when I saw a gynaecologist at my local Menopause clinic have been using 2 pumps estrogel, 100mg Utrogestan daily at night and use 1 pump Tostran gel every 3rd night. I haven't felt well for a long time (I have no major illness though) and thought HRT might do the trick to restore my get up and go but my bones and muscles seem to ache more - especially my hips, knees and feet, my anxiety hasn't gone, I am tired and achy, have breast pain, reflux and generally feel like my body is seizing up!
The only positive thing I can say for HRT is the hot flushes which were a nightmare have gone now, and a slight improvement with VA (am on Vagifem every 3rd night for that too).
I haven't had a hormone level test done as he didn't suggest it, but am thinking of getting one done privately and paying for it just to see if it is my levels or just that I feel rubbish anyway! I agree with you about reading stories of HRT miracles and wish I felt like that too!! I have tried increasing gel dose to 3 pumps on his suggestion but that made my breasts even more sore and he said maybe that was too much for me. Have thought about just stopping everything but unsure of what to do for the best.
Thank you Hurdity for your advice on the Utrogestan, I'm wondering if I am intolerant?
Yes, the world is crazily scary just now and it is very hard not to worry about how it will all be in the future, it's nice to be able to discuss our worries on here and share stories. I wish everyone the very best to stay safe and well and let's keep talking! xxx
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The only thing I can say to you both is that there is hope and there are success stories of which I am one but and here comes the BIG but, it wasn't quick or even remotely on target for the kind of timescales that doctors can quote. Having been "ill" with nearly a the whole list of meno symptoms (its easier to write what I haven't had - primarily VA) for more than 5 years and with the anxiety symptoms, achy joints, insomnia, fatigue, and brain fog going off the scale for nearly 3 years I finally got onto the oestrogel, utrogestan and testosterone regime. Then the hard work started...I had to tweak and wait and tweak and wait until 7 months after starting there was a light at the end of the tunnel. It was only the light but "something" however brief was working and so I carried on a persevered and 18 months in I have a life!
I too started conservatively with the gel and within 4 weeks of starting my GP told me to up to 4 pumps and yes I still had anxiety and I got sore boobs and a couple of other things like weird itching but I didn't stop and drop the pumps. What I learned was that my body wasn't saying this is too much, it was saying I'm just not used to this. After a full 5 months of 4 pumps and treating the other "weird stuff" with paracetamol, melatonin for insomnia and anti histamine for itching, it all went away and I felt relatively normal (well compared to where I started). I carried on until I was 18 months in and I had got rid of all my symptoms or if they hadn't gone they were only very minor then my body threw a bit of fit and decided that 4 pumps was too much, it had reached a level to live on and so I had to drop to 2 pumps and I have been on 2 pumps quite happily for the last 2 months or so.
I have written many times that I think that those of us who have serious longterm ongoing symptoms appear to take very much longer to get our bodies to move into balance and whilst they are trying to get there it appears they get a few more other symptoms before it all falls into place. I can only speak from my experience but if I had given up on the 4 pumps because of sore boobs and the fact the other symptoms didnt seem to be settling I wouldnt be where I am today which is better than I have been in 20 years because it turns out some of my hormonal problems were there before peri and meno.
You can only try and persevere and listen to your own body. I pushed through because I had no other choice, giving up wasnt an option for me but that is not the case for everyone.
Thats the gel bit and for the utrogestan I use 200mg x 12 days vaginally not orally on a long 6 week cycle and have a bleed although I am 58 and post meno. I cannot take progesterone continuously, it messes with my head but after 5 cycles any "side effects" (prefer to call them reactions) also settled completely. My testosterone is 2 x per week and it took 5 months to get my libido back and my "bits" functioning properly.
I have never had blood tests ever for anything and I have only ever been treated for controlling symptoms.
As I said I can only talk from my own experience but maybe your bodies are still going "hey I'm not used to this yet" or "help you are not taking this stuff the way I can use it". Yep its a real tough call and no right or wrong way to go about it either I think. As long as you stay within guidelines which doesnt mean prescribed guidelines but just general guidelines and dont do anything outside what you might read on here has been prescribed by a consultant then if it suits you and it works go right on ahead and try is what I say.
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I'm 57 haven't had a period for 4 years, have been taking Utrogestan 100mg every night continuously and Estrogel 2 pumps for just over a year, but for the past few months I have suffered from very severe acid reflux, had a couple of small bleeds, acne on my face both cheeks, I didn't have this as a teenager so I'm amazed I have it now & just generally feeling awful. Could this be the Utrogeston? I have seen a Gynaecologist and had a scan which was fine. Unfortunately when I ask the Gynaecologist if she thought I should stop the Utrogestan and Estrogel or take the tablet vaginally, her reply was it's up to you🙄 I'm at a total loss now, any help or advise would really be appreciated. 😊
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Hi jojo h
Yes if you take the utrogestan vaginally this wil hopefully prevent the digestive problems that some women experience from oral use. I can't comment on the acne. Are your menopausal symptoms otherwise improved on this regime?
Hurdity x
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Hello Hurdity.
Thanks for replying. 😊 Should I take the Utrogestan vaginally every night or every other night? I'm a Migraine sufferer and it has helped enormously. I was also having palpitations and night sweats which I don't have now. What seems to have upset my hormones in the last few months was upping the Estrogel from two pumps to three on the advice of the migraine clinic. I'm now back to two pumps.
Jo x
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heavenly blue
have you tried applying gel to outer arms
i used to use on my inner thighs but didn't obsorb took a break as felt awful this time round 9 weeks now i apply on outer arms and although my arms have fatterned up a bit from the gel i?m obsorbing loads better 435 pmol as opposed to 113 pmol on inner thighs x
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Hello Hurdity.
Thanks for replying. 😊 Should I take the Utrogestan vaginally every night or every other night? I'm a Migraine sufferer and it has helped enormously. I was also having palpitations and night sweats which I don't have now. What seems to have upset my hormones in the last few months was upping the Estrogel from two pumps to three on the advice of the migraine clinic. I'm now back to two pumps.
Jo x
If you move to take it vaginally you should use the licensed dose of 100 mg nightly and see how you get on. If after a couple of months you don't experience any bleeding then with the agreement of your doctor you could trial the alternate day regime which is more likely to protect the endoemtrium on low or medium doses of oestrogen ie up to 2 pumps. Greater than that (eg 3 pumps) could lead to breakthrough bleeding with the alternate day dosage.
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity 😊x
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I wondered if I could have people's views on my trials with Utro and Oestrodial.
About 3 years ago I was prescribed Sandrena gel 1mg and 100mg Utro to be taken continuously. I am years post-meno. I didn't use a full sachet every night, maybe half to three quarters. That worked fine for a while and eventually relieved the extreme mental symptoms I'd been having.
Over a year ago, I did start using the whole 1mg sachet and a couple of months later I had some small amount of bleeding, which was investigated. My womb lining was 6mm, which I know is too much. I'm not sure if this means the Utro isn't doing its job well enough, no one has been able to tell me.
I've experimented a couple of times with taking Utro vaginally. When I took the Utro vaginally every night, I started to bleed profusely after about a week. I stopped everything completely until the bleeding stopped. Recently I've tried taking it every second night, again after a week the bleeding has started, not quite as profuse but a lot.
So the question is - does the bleeding mean I am now taking too much Utro - or does it mean I wasn't taking enough before? Should I persevere with the Utro vaginally?
I am toying with the idea of giving up HRT altogether but I am worried I will sink back into that life-isn't-worth-living pit of despair I was in before. I struggle with anxiety, indecisiveness, panic over minor things, self-flagellation (figuratively!) over everything I've ever done. The worst symptom is the feeling of high-alert, high-stress, where I am constantly clutching my chest trying to calm myself down. I feel the Utro exacerbates this symptom, hence the switch to vaginal use. I think it is better that way but the bleeding is confusing me.
To be honest, for some years now I've felt that I am merely existing, not living. I don't look forward to anything, I can't remember the last time I felt content or happy or at peace. I don't know if this is it for ever more :(.
Any experiences or views would be most welcome.
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Hi DownDillie
When utrogestan is used vaginally then it is more effective at working on and protecting the uterus lining than the same dose used orally. If your lining was 6 mm following bleeding after you increased the dose then if you carried on with the same dose and delivery method your womb lining could continue to very slowly grow over the months. Then when you changed to vaginal method, the prog was doing a better job, and the most likely explanation for the bleed is that the slightly overthickened lining was coming away.
Obviously you might want to raise this with your doctor but one way to get rid of the thickened lining is to stop the progesterone completely for a week and then you will have a proper bleed. Then when you restart you could then restart vaginal use and see how it went from there? Another alternative which would have the same effect (of shedding any built up lining) would be too take it cyclically for a few months so this would mean taking 200 mg ( ie two balls not one) vaginally for 12 days per month, say for 3 months and then start again with a new regime ( eg back to previous but vaginally) in the hope that there would be no more bleeding.
Another reason for the bleeding could be a fibroid or a polyp but these might have been picked up from the scan especially if it was transvaginal? Finally if you've had endometriosis there can be random bleeding on HRT.
If HRT generally has helped your symptoms then it's a question of tweaking the regime so that you don't bleed when you don't want to and your lining stays thin.
By the way, like Birdy, I also feel much worse on the progesterone. I have pretty much only ever taken it cyclically and a long cycle at that (12 days every 6-7 weeks usually), for this reason, but the downside is having a bleed, and I'm in mid 60's ::) . However still better that, and have at least 4 weeks maybe more of feeling good and alert, and put up with the two weeks of feeling less good, the odd migraine (and the horrible bleed and cramps).
I definitely feel much much better than only just existing. I can't say I feel on top of the world with the zest and drive I had while fertile but still I feel pretty good considering my age and stage :). You might even need a bit more oestrogen? However I would try the different progesterone regimes first and get the dose right for your womb lining .....
Hope this helps?
Hurdity x
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Hello, hope this is the right place to put this post. I'm on my second month of cyclical estrogel and Ustrogestan.
Ive been feeling terribly sick and stomach cramps I think with the gel?
I've also not had a bleed when I stopped the Ustrogestan over a week ago, so I've contiued as normal with the gel, then I'll start the Ustrogestan again, but I thought I was meant to bleed so bit worried something isn't working right? :-\ any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.
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Help been on vagifem for few years occasionally. Last 2 years had to up to 2x week.but every 3/4month get low dull cramping bloated need wee.stinging on lady parts.i was told can use vagifem for life and can up and down accordingly up to 5 or7 times week when needed.has anyone else had these feelings. When up vagifem it improves again.i had hysterectomy 16 years ago after fybroids and 2 year later prolapse so had sacrolpolpexopy to repair it still have ovaries. I am 62 in August and fed up with this symptoms. Dr renee is great on utube.she gave me advice on amout vagifem use.i use yes lubricant inbetween vagifem which helps.
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Hi Everyone
I have just started Oestrogel and will move to the progesterone part soon - Ustrogestan. I'm really worried about this as I'm doing OK on the Oestrogel - but have heard terrible things about this.
Can anyone reassure me that its OK and they are getting on well with it. I also didn't realise that I would have periods? is this the case - my meno doctor did not really explain this to me.
thanks
Suzysheb
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Hello everyone...finding your chats very interesting as I've been prescribed Oestrogel/utrogestan combo & have been baffled about dosage. Initially used Femseven sequi then Evorel sequi & now another change due to ongoing availability. I'm 50, peri with erratic periods & on meds for high blood pressure. No hot flushes to speak of but anxiety, brain mush, mood swings etc. She's prescription came with no dosage 're oestrogen & to take 1 tablet days 1-25. I checked the leaflet & it said 2 tabs days 15-26. Called Dr who said it made no difference & was up to me & do 1 pump of gel. Is this dosage the same as evorel sequi patches? Going to take tabs days 15-26 as this seems to follow what I'm currently doing with patch. I so want the patches to come back as they work for me & I'm worried about tablets due to high blood pressure. Any advice would be great. Thanks
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Thank you stellajane...yet again that is much more information/advice than i have been given by any of the doctors i have seen through this new experience :-\
I've seen comments about taking these tablets vaginally rather than orally...Is that a better option? Whichever way limits the "down" effect of the progesterone would suit me better as I always seem more like myself for the first 2 weeks on the patches
Thanks
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Food for thought...thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it. I feel like it's been an ongoing battle, with availability of patches & lack of GP knowledge, to get me through the last couple of years. Just when I feel things are settling the availability curveball reappears. Will see how I get on with gel & tablets & keep an ear out for patches coming back into circulation. My husband has suggested I go cold turkey until patches are available but not sure that's a good idea during lockdown. ::)
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That's settled it....2 pumps it is :P
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Heavenlyblue it could have been me that wrote that last post! I sympathise with everything you said and feel exactly the same. Its such a struggle to find out what is the best thing to do!
I'm 63 and since last October when I saw a gynaecologist at my local Menopause clinic have been using 2 pumps estrogel, 100mg Utrogestan daily at night and use 1 pump Tostran gel every 3rd night. I haven't felt well for a long time (I have no major illness though) and thought HRT might do the trick to restore my get up and go but my bones and muscles seem to ache more - especially my hips, knees and feet, my anxiety hasn't gone, I am tired and achy, have breast pain, reflux and generally feel like my body is seizing up!
The only positive thing I can say for HRT is the hot flushes which were a nightmare have gone now, and a slight improvement with VA (am on Vagifem every 3rd night for that too).
I haven't had a hormone level test done as he didn't suggest it, but am thinking of getting one done privately and paying for it just to see if it is my levels or just that I feel rubbish anyway! I agree with you about reading stories of HRT miracles and wish I felt like that too!! I have tried increasing gel dose to 3 pumps on his suggestion but that made my breasts even more sore and he said maybe that was too much for me. Have thought about just stopping everything but unsure of what to do for the best.
Thank you Hurdity for your advice on the Utrogestan, I'm wondering if I am intolerant?
Yes, the world is crazily scary just now and it is very hard not to worry about how it will all be in the future, it's nice to be able to discuss our worries on here and share stories. I wish everyone the very best to stay safe and well and let's keep talking! xxx
Thank you so much for replying. Apologies for my delay in coming back on here, have not been feeling very well.
My hot flushes have rapidly decreased and I only get the occasional migraine so I have to be happy with that! But it's the exhaustion and the aching joints, I feel about 100 when I wake up in the morning!
I am going to take another hormone test in about a week and the results will be emailed to my private doc.
I may change where I put the gel, it's on outer thighs at the moment. I also need to try only taking Utrogestan for only 2 weeks of the month and doubling up with it the other 2 weeks. Need to see if I feel any different. Just feel frustrated, it's been 3 1/2 years since symptoms started, I thought I would be sorted by now, especially as I am now going private. I guess I still have to be patient.
I wish you improved symptoms and hope that things get better for you, whichever course of action you decide to take x
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heavenly blue
have you tried applying gel to outer arms
i used to use on my inner thighs but didn't obsorb took a break as felt awful this time round 9 weeks now i apply on outer arms and although my arms have fatterned up a bit from the gel i?m obsorbing loads better 435 pmol as opposed to 113 pmol on inner thighs x
Thank you for replying. I did start with outer arms when I was on 3 pumps but my first hormone results did not improve so I went to 4 x pumps & swapped to outer thighs. I will be doing another hormone test in a week, be interesting to see if the extra pump has improved my levels at all, even though my exhaustion and aching joints are still bad.
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Hi heavenlyblue
Sorry to hear you're feeling rough. I can't remember your story completely but could you try going completely to cyclical Utrogestan rather than 100 mg for half the month and 200 mg for the rest, to see how you feel once you've got it out of your system? (Unless you have endometriosis that is in which case you probably do need it all the time).
Also have you had thyroid tests and could it be testosterone you need depending on your age?
Hurdity x
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Hi heavenly blue, sorry to hear you've not been well, hope you will be soon improving and feeling a bit better as time goes on? Its just horrible feeling crappy most of the time! HRT is the only thing that gets rid of my hot flushes too, although some mornings I still wake up and think oh-oh I'm having a mild flush and no, they've not gone yet, but then don't have any more for the rest of the day? Weird!
It definitely isn't a quick miracle cure, I'm now 7 months down the line and still hopeful. I decided to stick with the HRT and see how it goes. My follow up Meno clinic appointment with my local BMI hospital was for June but that has now been cancelled of course, so will have to stick with it.
We can only try different places to apply the gel, I've used outer arms and inner thighs so far but still don't know which is best? I've stopped the Tostran gel as was getting more hairs on my face??!!
Can anyone advise which patch is equivalent to my regime of 2 pumps estrogel and 100mg Utrogestan daily? My consultant initially suggested FemSeven conti, but I know they are not yet available until quarter 4 2020. I would like to try patches whenever I can to see if there's a difference?
Thanks xx
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Hi all, just a wee update from me. I tried and failed miserably on the utrogestan/estrogel combo - felt absolutely terrible most of the time and everything was dry, huge water retention, migraines and slightly crazy & very emotional - really disappointed as I had hope that this would be the gold standard for me as it works well for so many ladies. Gave it nearly 5 months, supported by lovely meno consultant, trying to avoid tablets due to the health risk, however Meno was worse so had to have help and mirena previously tried and failed. Changed 2.5 months ago to femoston conti (different prog) on the higher dose and an amazing difference - feel so much better, still not enough oestrogen so also taking vagifem daily supplemented by YES daily water based moisturiser (in the little tubes). Hope that is useful information
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I have posted on this thread before and just trying to fine tune things! I am 45, peri, got osteoporosis, on two pumps oestrogel and was on 200mg utrogestan prog day 14-25, felt like an exhausted anxious lunatic with the prog phase so changed to vaginally, managed a few days like that but still struggled so reduced dose to 100mg this month. When taking the utro orally I didn't bleed but I have had 3 day bleed with last two cycles when taking vaginally. I have noticed acne with the prog phase this month and my VA has got worse. Hot flushes controlled, energy up and down, libido poor. Is the acne to do with the utro? Is it a high enough dose? The hrt nurse didn't want me to take it vaginally as unlicensed. The endocrinologist who I see for the osteoporosis said fiddle around but didn't know much about it herself!
Considering seeing Tim Hillard privately as hrt clinic nurse is lovely but won't go off licence.
Anyone seen him or know of him?
I have always been prog sensitive in the past. Any other thoughts appreciated
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Good morning everyone- it's been a while and a host of different 'treatments? since I last posted 🥴
I would be really grateful is anyone could help/share their experiences. I have been on 2 pumps of Estrogel for around three months now and it has been great for sorting out my foggy head and the night time flushes; hence sleeping MUCH better!
However over the last couple of weeks I have bloated up BIG TIME! Major discomfort, trapped gas, gas pains in my back, generally feeling really bloated and yuk. Any advice to help with this? I've just ordered some peppermint oil capsules and some probiotics capsules as I really don't want to come off Estrogel and go back to no sleep 😞
Thanks in advance
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Hello again!
I've been referred to Oxford Menopause Clinic by my GP due to heavy withdrawal bleeds, return of symptoms and non existent libido. After first phone apt back in March I was advised to continue on 4 pumps of Oestrogel (patches not available) and switch to continuous Utrogestan in order to stop bleeds. This didn't go well, irregular bleeding was awful so reverted back to cyclical regime. My next apt is 24 June, in the meantime I've had blood tests and results sent to Menopause Clinic. Readings were Serum oestradiol 340, SHBG 52, Testosterone 0.9. Can anyone relate to these? Is 340 considered low if on 4 pumps? Is 0.9 a low testosterone level? Really fed up, my HRT journey had been mostly great for 12 months but in the last 6 months it feels like the wheels are falling off again! Also had ACL reconstruction surgery in November last year and rehab has been tough. 😤
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Cassie, why only 60? When I saw the meno specialist he said he had women in hrt way in their 80s
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Hello! I am brand new to Menopause Matters and sooo relieved to find that there is a special estrogel support group as I am having real problems getting the levels right and pretty much zero support from my GP to guide me. I am currently on 5 pumps of estrogel a day (2 in the morning and 3 a night) which I know is already higher than the average 2-4 pumps a day. However, my husband is constantly telling me I look tired and so I was considering stepping up the levels - possibly 6 or more. I was wondering if anyone out there is on the above average levels of oestrogen and, if so, what their experiences are? Would also love to know what kind of advice/support you get from your GP when changing levels. Thanks so much and look forward to hearing from you!!
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What symptoms do you have apart from tiredness? There are many causes of tiredness and if that is your only symptom it may have nothing to do with meno. As you say 5 pumps is already a high dose, I'm not sure it's a good idea to increase further without the support of you doc. Perhaps ask for a referral to a menopause clinic so you can see a specialist? What progesterone do you use and is it continues or cyclical? Utrogestan is well known for causing tiredness.
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Hi I'm new on here and hoping someone will be able to help. Quick background: started HRT patches (estrodot) in jan and after 3 months, tests showed I'd not been absorbing much oestrogen (hadn't felt much symptom relief) so was swapped to oestrogel and ultrogestan. Been taking 2 pumps for a month and just introduced the ultrogestan a week ago (following instructions from gynaecologist) She suggested I could experiment with 3 pumps to see how it felt after the first month so I've had a go. Felt pretty jangly yesterday so tried with just an extra half today. The problem is I just don't feel right! So far there hasn't been any real uplift in my mood or energy levels, if anything I've been feeling more down and tearful the past few days. Also weird aches and pains I'd hoped would have gone by now haven't.... sometimes wondering if I'm having a heart attack.....my breasts have got bigger and feel tender (especially round the nipples) Am I going through something normal and need to stick at it? I thought I would be back to ?normal? by now but instead I still feel stuck in the grey bog I've been in for months. I thought more oestrogen would help, but initial reaction to increased dose not been particularly great...Has anyone else experienced similar issues and come through the other side? I'm not due a follow up until the end of June, but wondering if I should try for an earlier one? :'(
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Hi Ali51,
hello there! - this forum is brilliant for sharing our issues! Sorry you've not got on great with your regime and I guess one size definitely doesn't fit all. I've been on 2 and a half pumps estrogel and 100mg Utrogestan for past 8 months and I haven't had any improvement in my symptoms apart from a reduction in hot sweats.
I'm 63 and my symptoms before were all very similar to yours. Just feeling not me at all for ages. I decided two weeks ago I had had enough of sore boobs and a burning around the nipple, bad stomach pains with rumbling (Utrogestan??) and still feeling rubbish, so have decided to stop altogether for a while to see how I went on and until could go back to Meno clinic which will probably be a while! Am still taking Vagifem for VA as that has been an issue.
I have sent an email to Dr Heather Currie and am still waiting for an in depth reply. I'm hoping to maybe try FemSeven patches if and when they become available again later in the year.
You might feel better after a few more months on it you never know, a lot of ladies say it can take longer for some people, it depends on each individuals reaction to it. I know the benefits outweigh the risks and I really wish I could say I felt marvellous, but I don't, and if the side effects are awful that's no good? I really wanted to be on it and get all the benefits to protect me as I get older.
I hope you get sorted if you manage to get your appointment, good luck with it all and stay safe xxx
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Thankyou Julia
I guess there just aren't any easy answers are there?! I?ll persevere, as I want to keep my long term health as well as I can...... hope you find a solution too x
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Hi I would like some advice if possible I am 59 I've been on hrt for 9 years elleste duet conti was fabulous on it until the dreaded shortage I was put on kliofem in Nov persevered with it for three month gave me terrible palpations and anxiety so was changed to evorol conti patch that gave me a terrifying feeling in my head numbness pins needles and vertigo I was convinced it was the patch so I took it off nine weeks ago thinking all the symptoms would go away they didn't I have had vertigo for nine weeks the numbness has subsided and and I get slightly dizzy it was a horrible experience and is still sort of lingering in the background I have hot flashes every night I can't be certain it was the patch but if it was the effects are only just wearing off I've got vaginal dryness I've got hot flashes I've lost my boobs and a stone in weight my ears are ringing I've been off hrt for nine weeks I asked my doctor for the gell and tablet I have it it's here sat in front of me but I'm terrified to take it incase the above happens again and I've been reading some posts on here made me feel uneasy about taking the plunge my doc not well up on hrt on the gell it says use once a day and the tablets take one a night on empty tummy there 100 mg I'm 59 not had a bleed for 8 years I'm scared confused and wondering if I start this is it going to be ok and if it is I want it for life but I'm sure my doc will take it off me when I'm 60 I think you always want the success storys but I do realize everyone on here wants help or they wouldn't be on here can anyone ease my mind please
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The NICE guidelines have changed and there is no age limit now. Very few people react badly to oestrogen, it's normally the progesterone that causes the problems. You could start on a sequi regime so you tell if the progesterone is a problem, then change to conti if you're OK. You could also use the Utrogestan vaginally which has fewer side effects (push it up as far as you can just before you go to bed). For sequi you take 200mg for 12 days (I think it's from day 16) then you'll have a bleed a couple of days after finishing it. You already feel bad so imo there's nothing to lose by trying it, thousands of women do well on it. If it's intolerable you can always stop. Good luck!
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Thank you for your kind reply Shelia x so do I just put one tablet up there and how many pumps of gell would I use it just says use once daily very helpful 🥴 do I start with one pump or two my first tablets elleste duet conti was 2mg oestogen 1 mg northisrrone xx Ty
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Julie55, its a wonderful combo that. I havae been on it for 15 yrs and aint stopping. Just put one utrogestan 100mg up vaginally, much easier than swallowing, I use mine for 12 days per month usually from the 1st to the 12th, much easier to remember and 2 pumps on gel, I alternate legs and rub it in well, it works a treat. :)
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That isn't the standard dose Cassie. If continuous it's 100mg capsule every day,if sequi it's 2x100mg capsules for 12 days per month. It's important to stick to the standard dose unless you have the agreement of your gp and/or regular scans, there's an increased risk of cancer if you have insufficient progesterone to keep your lining thin.
julie55, I don't know about elleste but evorel conti is equivalent to 2 pumps. Maybe start a new post with this title and someone might know? Two pumps is a common starting dose then you can adjust up or down as you need to.
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Hi ladies, hope I'm posting this question in the right place and not repeating something already asked loads! Apologies if so.
Am in first month of oestrogel/ utrogestan regime, but only using 100mg orally of the utrogest for 10 days, days 16-26 because I am starting off v slowly on the oestrogel, only quarter to half a pump daily to adjust.
After only 2 days on the utrogest ie cycle day 17, I am spotting quite heavily, as though I'm about to start my period. 🤨Prior to beginning hrt this month I was having periods each month anywhere between days 20-30. This month I woukd have expected a shorter natural cycle (after a 29 day cycle last mth) had I not begun hrt, so might this be my own hormones still taking the lead and/ or an insufficient amount of utrogestan being absorbed do you think? If the latter should I just see what gives the next few days and if my period does arrive this early, consider asking gp re increasing the utrogestan to 200mg?
Thoughts really appreciated, thanks everyone!
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It may not be standard dose Sheila but many of us have been on this protocol, myself included for years and years, and it goes without saying that anyone taking any form of HRT, would have at least an annual examination by a specialist, including an endometrial ultrasound.
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Er, no, not on the nhs. Most people are prescribed by their gp not a specialist and I don't know anyone who has an annual scan on the nhs. I had one before I started hrt but haven't been offered it during the two years I've been on it. If you use less than the prescribed dose and have scans that's great but given the increased cancer risk imo we shouldn't suggest anyone else does this without explaining the risks.
Annies, I find my own cycle is always stronger than the hrt one. It's difficult in peri when your own cycle fluctuates. I can tell when I ovulate so I take it a couple of days after that. Since doing it this way I've always bled at the expected time, before I would bleed at any time of the hrt cycle, sometimes twice in a month. Maybe see if it's a proper bleed and start counting with the start of the bleed as day 1. I think it's more likely to be timing rather than the dose that's causing it. Given the low oestrogen dose you're probably OK on 100mg Utrogestan assuming your doc thinks it's OK.
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Thnks Sheila99. Yes peri is certainly a devil. Past few mths have been alternating from longer to shorter cycle with the odd random length one thrown in for good measure!
Ok, I think I'll do as you suggest and try to synch as far as poss with my natural cycle. The prospect of 2 periods a month is def not appealing! If I count the first day of proper bleeding as day 1 and stop the utrogestan (even if I've only had 3 or 4 days' worth) I'm guessing that's fine for one cycle. If ( touch wood not) I get another v early bleed next mth I'll have to rethink it as can't obviously keep on missing out the utrogest so may I guess then have to try it vaginal or up it orally?
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I think it's a case of try it and see what works for you. I have a natural 6 week cycle and the enforced 4 week cycle on evorel patches just didn't work. I haven't bled before day 10 on utro so the odd time it's happened I've stopped it. My reasoning was that my body had produced enough progesterone so it should be OK but I really don't know if this is right, my gp couldn't advise. Some people say you should complete the course but this puts the next cycle out of step.
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Thanks again sheila99. I agree,.just have to try this approach and see - will hopefully fall in with my own cycle more or less once established on HRT. Period has pretty much arrived today as feared so hoping nxt cycle if I do ovulate, it'll be later on..if not I might investigate the vaginal route to improve absorption..
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Sheila I am under a private gynae, having said that havent been to see him in almost 3 yrs, and not going now until things simmer down.
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Hi! I have been on 3 different types of HRT in the past 12 months. I am currently on Oestradiol gel and Utrogestron. I have ok days but mostly bad with anxiety and I can only describe as a tight ache in my stomach which doesn't sound a lot but appears to lower my mood! I have recently increased to 4 pumps of gel just before my period and I had a very good 4-5 days. My sleep is not great but I'm managing ok. Now my period has stopped all symptoms have returned. My question is should I reduce my gel even though I didn't feel good on 3 pumps or should I increase? Cannot get the balance right and some days. I had a blood test on 3 pumps and it was 140(sorry not sure how it's measured) this was in day 8 of cycle
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just wondering what shower gel ect people use when on estrogel, I know we are not suppose to moisturise the area before using the gel the ones i have been looking at all seem to be moisturising
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Hi ladies, I'm new to HRT and I'm on one pump of Estrogel and one Utrogestan tablet from day 15 to 26 of my period. I was a little concerned with the dosage and the days that I was meant to be taking the Utrogestan as I found I was still on the tablet when my period would start, so I called my GP. She said that day one was the first day of my period and the first time I started HRT and it was a 28 day cycle from there and I should continue with these days regardless when my period starts? This is a bugger to keep track of and doesn't seem to tie in with what everyone is doing. She also insists I stay on one tablet not two. I'm not convinced, can anybody help this confused peri-menopausal woman? Thanks x
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Opal I have never known that and have used the gel for many years, I use normal soap or shower gel and use the gel at night when I get into bed, it works really well.
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Arty, I assume you're peri? I've found the best way is to keep the hrt cycle in step with my own. I find my own cycle is stronger than the hrt one so getting out of step results in bleeding at odd times.
The standard dose is 200mg for 12 days. It's 100mg if you use it every day in meno then you don't have a bleed. Perhaps she thinks 100mg is adequate as you're on a low dose of oestrogen. Personally I wouldn't use so little unless I had scans to check the lining wasn't building up. Maybe take the patient information leaflet and ask her why you're taking less than it says.
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Hi Sheila, yes I'm peri-menopausal with a much shorter cycle than the HRT one, usually 25 days. If I alter my tablets to my cycle, would that mean that I wouldn't be taking the Utrogestan tablet for as long as I should be? I'm only on one pump of oestrogen and have only been on HRT for 3 months now and they wanted to start me on a low dose to see how I got on. I didn't have severe symptoms, mainly night sweats and brain fog, both of which have improved with HRT, it's just the dosage and when to take these tablets that's confusing me. I appreciate your help.
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I would start utro 3 days early. You're on less than the recommended dose to start with so I really wouldn't cut it short. I have the opposite problem, my cycle is 6 weeks. If you can tell when you ovulate you can start after that, that's what I do.
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Thanks Sheila, that makes sense, I?ll try that.
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Hi ladies, thank you so much for all this information on the form. I have learnt so much over the last 24 hours of near continuous reading ;D
Today I've got my hands on utrogestan 100mg. Which I plan to take with the oestrogel.
The question I have is do I take both of these products every single day? I have not had a period for over 2 years, so I'm post menopause.
Any info would be very much appreciated. :)
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Hi! I have been on 3 different types of HRT in the past 12 months. I am currently on Oestradiol gel and Utrogestron. I have ok days but mostly bad with anxiety and I can only describe as a tight ache in my stomach which doesn't sound a lot but appears to lower my mood! I have recently increased to 4 pumps of gel just before my period and I had a very good 4-5 days. My sleep is not great but I'm managing ok. Now my period has stopped all symptoms have returned. My question is should I reduce my gel even though I didn't feel good on 3 pumps or should I increase? Cannot get the balance right and some days. I had a blood test on 3 pumps and it was 140(sorry not sure how it's measured) this was in day 8 of cycle
Hi Flan747
YOur post got missed. How you feel depends partly where you are in menopause. if your own cycle is still strong maybe you are feeling the effects of that? I'm not an expert in tweaking gel but maybe start a new thread so it will be seen by more people if you don't get any more responses? If the blood test result was 140 p mol/l (UK) that is very low if you are taking 3 pumps, even given that blood tests are unreliable. Maybe you are not abosrbing it well and patches might suit you better?
Hurdity x
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just wondering what shower gel ect people use when on estrogel, I know we are not suppose to moisturise the area before using the gel the ones i have been looking at all seem to be moisturising
I would use an ordinary clear shower gel rather than a cream.
Hurdity x
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Hi ladies, thank you so much for all this information on the form. I have learnt so much over the last 24 hours of near continuous reading ;D
Today I've got my hands on utrogestan 100mg. Which I plan to take with the oestrogel.
The question I have is do I take both of these products every single day? I have not had a period for over 2 years, so I'm post menopause.
Any info would be very much appreciated. :)
Yes take both every day. How has your doc prescribed it? How much oestrogel?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity,
I'm living in Asia and don't have access to a doctor unfortunately. I have pretty much self diagnosed and self medicated up to this point...... Most of what I've used previously has come from iherb and been delivered from the US.
I've started taking oestrogel, 1.5mg each morning now.
Is there no break at all? I read some ladies do take a break... Is that because they haven't gone through menopause yet?
Sorry to be so clueless and and ask stupid questions but I don't want to do more harm than good, if you see what I mean.
Nobody I know is going through the menopause so i can't even phone a friend lol!!
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Hi Perri I used 1 pump of the oestrogel daily and 100mg of the UTrogestan for 12 days a month. You will then get a bleed every month, it is important if you dont use 100mg daily that you try to get a scan of your uterus once a year to see that the lining is staying thin enough. If you are post menopausal, then you never take a break from the oestrogel, its used daily, I alternate legs and use it at night when I get into bed.
If you find that 1 pump is not working you can up it to 2 I dont have any symptoms on 1 pump, have never had a hot flush nor many of the nasty symptoms one gets, it works really well its a good combo to have.
Good luck
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Hi Cassie, Thanks for getting back to me. :)
I'm a bit confused now..... .which is quite common these days ;D. Why do some people take utrogestan for 12 days only and others take it every day? Which is the best to do if you're post menopause? Not sure I fancy going down the period route again lol
I will definitely try and get a scan sorted in the not too distant future too.
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Thanks Hurdity
I am having regular periods although slightly different cycle since starting HRT. I did think about trying patches but like most people on here I worry about changing again even though things are not great. I Definately absorb tablets better but they give me terrible stomach problems! I am going to try for another 4 weeks on 3 pumps and see how I feel
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Hi Perri I'm confused to still not took the plunge and started mine I'm very nervous due to horrible side effects of last patch I had x anyway I'm post Meno and apparently you insert 100mg tablet into your vagina each night continuously so then you do not get a bleed you get less side effects this way so I'm told and it can make you sleepy if your taking it oral then it's 200mg per night on an empty tummy x the gel is one to two pumps spread on your inner thighs not rubbed in leave to dry. For approx 10 mins you can adjust dose to suit so you could start on one pump see if that is ok if your still getting symptoms increase to two pumps that's what I understand so far if I am not correct I'm sure someone will correct me as I said I've not started mine yet I have it here but I am very nervous of side effects x anyway hope this helps x
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Hurdity
Thanks i re read the leaflet and it just says not to moisturise for an hour after applying gel but will get a clear shower gel
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Hi Perri, I take it only 12 days a month as I dont like the side effects, it has the opposite effect on me that it does on many, instead of making me sleepy, it gives me insomnia, and makes me feel like I have had too much coffee, I feel a bit racy and jittery on it, so I only use it for 12 days a month and to be honest, I often cheat and use it every 2nd month, but one does need to go for a scan annually to see that its working properly. I only rub 1 pump of gel into each leg, I massage it in well until its absorbed, I have never just put it on and let it dry, it takes about 30 secons to rub it in, the length of the leg.
If you do use the Utrogestan for only 12 days a month, you will get a bleed every month, it usually starts about 4 or 5 days after you have stopped the Utrogestan & lasts a few days.
I have never used it every day, but if you choose that, then you should not get a bleed at all apparantly.
Hope this helps, feel free to ask any questions.
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I'm so pleased to hear that it's not just me who has the opposite effect with the tablet, I find it really difficult to sleep too! Also I tend to rub the gel the gel on my outer arm instead of inner thigh, does this matter does anybody know?
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Thanks so much ladies. It's good to read how others are dealing with all these lotions and potions.... And more importantly, where they are putting them! :D
If I've got it right it's down to personal choice post menopause!?! I'm going to try and carry on with continuous use (I started last night) and inserted it rather than took it orally. I didn't have the best sleep, so I'll review in a month.
To be honest I don't relish the idea of having a period again. Is the bleed like a normal period? I'd kind of hoped me and Tampax had parted company for good ;D
The next question..... (sorry)... Has anyone thrown testosterone in the mix? My husband is thinking of moving out and becoming a monk as my libido is totally non existent!
Any info would be much appreciated :-*
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Haha Peri, the oestrogel will def help a bit with your libido. I did have a testosterone test a few yrs back my levels were very low but the gynae didnt bother to treat it, but I know that there are a few ladies on here, who have used testosterone, Hurdity, is one that comes to mind, only because she posted her experiences about it.
It is a normal bleed for me and lasts a few days with day one and two being heavier, but I used to have the same before I went through meno. It just doesnt last the full 7 days that I used to experience in my 20's and 30s, usually tapers off around day 4.
Good luck with the journey.
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Hello! I'm new to the group and not sure if this is the right way to post, so please let me know if am making a mistake in entering my message here and I will move it. I am 47, perimenopause, on Oestrogel / Utrogestan (first few days since I've started). I put the Oestrogel on my arms - starting dose is 1 pump - but when I picked my dog up in my arms today I immediately thought of the oestrogen passing on to him. I subsequently read some pretty alarming info on estrogen being passively rubbed on to pets, children, etc. I am thinking of starting to apply it in on my thighs instead - does this really work just as well, and if so, where exactly should I put it? Thank you! :)
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Hi Perri I used 1 pump of the oestrogel daily and 100mg of the UTrogestan for 12 days a month. You will then get a bleed every month, it is important if you dont use 100mg daily that you try to get a scan of your uterus once a year to see that the lining is staying thin enough. If you are post menopausal, then you never take a break from the oestrogel, its used daily, I alternate legs and use it at night when I get into bed.
If you find that 1 pump is not working you can up it to 2 I dont have any symptoms on 1 pump, have never had a hot flush nor many of the nasty symptoms one gets, it works really well its a good combo to have.
Good luck
Hi Cassie, I'm new to the group and only just started cyclical Oestrogel (1 pump) and Utrogestan (200) combo for 12 days. I already know the Utrogestan is going to make me feel like a lunatic, and so I've been wondering whether it might be OK to halve the given dose to 100mg and possibly insert it vaginally instead of taking it orally (I am thinking it diffuses closer to the uterus, and I might also tolerate it better as not taken orally). Are there any risks associated with this lower dose that you know of? Thank you x
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Pets can get alopecia from it so it's important you don't come into contact with your pet, there's a post on it. I'm not sure if it's OK when it's fully dry. I've always used it on inner thigh so can't compare but I don't believe it makes a difference. As long as you use it consistently you can increase or decrease it to suit.
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Thank you - yes, and as far as I've read, not just alopecia but - among other things - aplastic anemia which is a very serious condition, so I will switch to applying the gel to legs, at least while my arms are exposed during the warmer months. How do I find the pet-related thread? Tx! x
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Actually I think it got political so was deleted. It was started by BeaR, if you pm her I'm sure she'll send you the link to the research.
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Hi Cassie, I'm new to the group and only just started cyclical Oestrogel (1 pump) and Utrogestan (200) combo for 12 days. I already know the Utrogestan is going to make me feel like a lunatic, and so I've been wondering whether it might be OK to halve the given dose to 100mg and possibly insert it vaginally instead of taking it orally (I am thinking it diffuses closer to the uterus, and I might also tolerate it better as not taken orally). Are there any risks associated with this lower dose that you know of? Thank you x
Hi Cassandraa
:welcomemm:
There is some research (small trials) which shows that when used vaginally half the dose of progesterone may be needed to protect the uterus (on low to medium oestrogen doses) compared with oral use, and some menopause specialists do indeed recommend vaginal use.
The risks associated with lower doses are that the endometirum may not be protected sufficiently so should be done under medical supervision, (although some members who can afford it, have regular private scans to miniotr their uterus lining).
Where are you in menopause ie natural periods, cycle length, period length and flow? This will also have a bearing on how much progesterone you need. Ideally you should start with the licensed dose for a few months and see what bleed you get before thimnking about reducing. if your periods are still pretty regular then you will still be producing your own which may be sufficient to justify a reduced progesterone dose with the HRT.
As you see there are many unknowns!
Also as has been said - just avoid close contact with any other person or animal for at least an hour after gel application (ie the part of the body where you have applied it) to avoid transfer. Application to thighs sounds like the best solution!
Hurdity x
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Hi Cassandra, I have been using the low dose Utrogestan for over 12 yrs and its always worked for me, as Hurdity says, using it vaginally does make a difference as well.
Having said that if you go for an annual ultrasound then I cannot see why you shouldnt try it this way, as 200mg was way too strong for me, apart from giving me terrible tinnitus it did turn me into a loon ;D
I apply 1 pump to each leg at night in bed, never anywhre else for the past 12 yrs and it works a treat.
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Hi , another query from me I have just increased my Estrogel from 2 pumps to 3 pumps last week to see if I could reduce various aches & pains , all seemed fine on first few days but now a week later I am feeling very weird mostly fuzzy strange head & blood pressure seems to be fluctuating , I can't really be bothered with anything - should I go back down to 2 pumps , is this normal when Estrogel is increased (all very confusing)?
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Hi all.
I was planning on coming off HRT completely but decided instead to reduce my Utro to 100mg for 12 nights instead of 200mg.
I'm peri and still bleed well so assumed it wouldn't be a huge risk to try this.
Bonus- I feel great! No suicidal thoughts and feeling really positive.
But today, 8 nights of Utro, I have cramps and a bit of spotting as though I'm about to get my period.
Does this mean I need more prog? Should I increase my dose tonight or carry on with 100mg?
I'm wondering if I should figure out my natural cycle and sync my hrt to that.
Any ideas?
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Oh lorrstar I've only been on 4 days but my hot flushes have gotten worse really hot and my head feels funny like hot on the inside I don't feel good at all I'm on two pumps and utrogesten vaginal this morning at 5am flashes were so bad I put another pump on beginning to wish I had not I was on elesete duet conti tabs but shortage stopped them and they were fab for me I was put on evorol conti and I got the head thing with that I'm wondering if the strength of the patch and tablet were different and my body was asking for more my tab was 2mg and 1mg absorption on patch was 50 micrograms and the gel is 75 I'm so confused I don't know if my body saying to much or not enough I only know I feel rubbish ATM and have no idea what to do I know that after adding 1 pump more I don't feel great sorry no help I would like some help to though hugs
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Hi Julie55, sorry to hear that you?re feeling so awful - it seems like there are no easy answers, maybe as others have said it just takes time for your body to adjust . it's an awful time I don't know if I feel better or worse on HRT! I've just been on it for 3 months & so many weird symptoms. Sending you some hugs & hope you feel better very soon :)
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On day 8 of my 12 days of Utrogestan 100mg, feeling very tearful and at the same time quite wired up and angry, not to mention bloated stomach and boobs which are very sore. Horrible stuff, thus me only taking it every other month. :-\
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Hi all.
I was planning on coming off HRT completely but decided instead to reduce my Utro to 100mg for 12 nights instead of 200mg.
I'm peri and still bleed well so assumed it wouldn't be a huge risk to try this.
Bonus- I feel great! No suicidal thoughts and feeling really positive.
But today, 8 nights of Utro, I have cramps and a bit of spotting as though I'm about to get my period.
Does this mean I need more prog? Should I increase my dose tonight or carry on with 100mg?
I'm wondering if I should figure out my natural cycle and sync my hrt to that.
Any ideas?
Unfortunately it's impossible to tell what the bleeding is due to when you are peri-menopausal and also as well as taking HRT. Unless you are one of those women who can definitely tell when they have ovulated, even on HRT ( rare I would say!) then you won't know what's going on.
Some women with more or less regular periods (and other women too, who are intolerant) do take lower amounts of progesterone under medical supervision for that very reason, because they will be producing their own progesterone. However as you get further towards peri-menopause and if you don't know when you ovulate then taking 100 mg is lower than the licensed dose so could lead to thickening of the lining. Used vaginally more gets to where it is needed so safer to take a reduced dose when used this way.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity.
Can I ask;
I want to try and sync my HRT to my natural cycle, is it best to stop HRT and wait for a natural bleed and count that as day 1? I'm not sure how that works with prog though, as I should take it on day 16 but as I bleed a few days after stopping, that would take me over the 28 days and my bleed would now be on day 5/6 or abouts.
I've probably got this completely wrong ???
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I just found another post of yours, Hurdity, which answers my question, so I'll try this :)
****
Depending on how regular your natural cycle is, and how long, you count the first day of your proper period as Day 1 of the cycle. With a 28 day cycle if you've been prescribed 10 days x 200 mg then you start the pessaries on Day 17 and take them up to and including Day 26 and not on Day 27 and Day 28. Then start counting Day 1 again (irrespective of whether you bleed or not) and next time take again on Day 17 which should be 4 weeks later so easy to put on calendar from then on ie every 4 weeks. If your cycle is normally longer than this maybe adjust slightly? Also if this turns out to be out of sync with your natural cycle you might have to tweak a bit...hopefully you will experience fewer pms symptoms with the pessaries?
****
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Hello was wondering if anyone could give me some advice as to if I should increase my oestrogel I've only been on 5 days but hot flushes have got more intence especially at night and creepy skin head tingling during day I was on tablets for years but due to shortage have been unable to get them since November and they were fantastic for me I was put on kliofem but I got rotten sore breasts and palpations I stopped cold turkey all hrt and have been so very ill vertigo for nine weeks ringing ears tingling and numbness anxiety couldn't take anymore so asked my GP for the gel and tablet he not good with hrt he prescribed it at first with 200 mg utrogesten I had to ring back and say I've been post Meno approx 5 years and would need 100mg taken daily he hasn't even put how many pumps of gel I should be useing so I have started on two and one tablet vaginal every night and as I say my hot flashes are way more intence and more frequent as the day wears on I get the creeping feeling in my skin like I've suddenly got a cold chill and my veins stand out and the funny head thing I was on 2mg +1 mg elesete duet conti for years and years and was great I really want this to work and I'm not sure if it's to much gel or not enough how do you know I don't want to over do it and make myself feel worse than I already do would anyone have any advice I don't want to stop and go down the dark road again if I could have my tablet back I would in a shot but not available and I don't think my doctor would let me go back on them I have tried evorol conti also they started my vertigo off but thinking about it I don't think they were the right strength compared to the tablet oh I'm in such a middle I just want to feel better should I up the gel or decrease it my doc not great and due to virus it's Tel call only sorry for long post regards Julie x anyone got any help please
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Hi Cassandra, I have been using the low dose Utrogestan for over 12 yrs and its always worked for me, as Hurdity says, using it vaginally does make a difference as well.
Having said that if you go for an annual ultrasound then I cannot see why you shouldnt try it this way, as 200mg was way too strong for me, apart from giving me terrible tinnitus it did turn me into a loon ;D
I apply 1 pump to each leg at night in bed, never anywhre else for the past 12 yrs and it works a treat.
Thank you Hurdity and Cassie for your feedback! I guess you're right and I should at least attempt the 200mg once - I start tomorrow for 12 dd. Years ago I had been on 100mg internally for 10 days during early pregnancy and the side effects were so extreme that I was put off off ever taking progesterone again... reason for which I am dreading the prospect of a double dose for 12 days! Then again, perhaps it won't have the same effect and I'll be fine with it. I'll keep you posted.
While I'm here, I was wondering if anyone has had issues with bleeding / spotting mid-Oestrogel treatment. Is this a mere side-effect while the body gets used to it, or our natural periods interfering? If it is the latter, in practical terms how do you time treatment to coincide with your natural cycles - for example, I should be starting my 12 days of Utrogestan tomorrow - should I scrap taking it, have my period and then start a new Oestrogel / Utro treatment cycle? My periods can be irregular so not sure I can do this anyway.... but any tips would be welcome.
My doctor also told me that I can take the Oestrogel every single day, without ever skipping it for 5 days a month - even though my treatment is cyclical with 12 days Utro. Are there any advantages to never taking a break, considering I am in peri and not post?
Thank you so much for your responses xxx
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Hi all,
I take utrogestan vaginally..quick question...I've got an appointment for a cervical smear on Friday...would anyone have any idea how many days it would take for me to stop taking them temporarily, so that there weren't little white bits floating around for when the nurse does the smear? I was going to make up for it before and afterwards...
Hope the question makes sense?
Thanks in advance 🙂
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I don't think I would stop the utro if you are taking it on a continuous combined basis. It doesn't really matter about stuff floating around I would imagine because it is the cells they will be looking at not gunk! Women always have stuff floating about that area!
Hurdity x
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Hi, thanks for your reply..
So presumably any bits of the utrogestan won't affect the test result? As I had an issue last year and am being tested again this year because of that.
Thanks 🙂
I don't think I would stop the utro if you are taking it on a continuous combined basis. It doesn't really matter about stuff floating around I would imagine because it is the cells they will be looking at not gunk! Women always have stuff floating about that area!
Hurdity x
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Hi all!
I'm going to pick up my prescription today for utrogestan and oestrogel - I'm moving over from Evorel Sequi. As is the case with most people just now, I was only able to have a telephone conversation with my GP about the change over and it felt rushed, so didn't ask an important question so I wondered if you could help. Can I start taking the new prescription today? I am currently on day 21 of my cycle ie I am taking the patch that contains both estrogen and progesterone. My period is due at the end of this week? I'm not due to pick up the prescription until later this afternoon so should I take my patch off now in preparation for taking the new ones later today?
Thanks for any advice you can give! 🙏
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Hi everyone,
Ive just had a telephone appointment with my gynaecologist and wanted to run his recommendations past you all.
Ive been on 4 pumps oestrogel and 200mg utrogestan from day 14 -28 for 7 months now. I'm 51 and as far as I'm aware I'm still in peri.
The majority of my symptoms have improved but I'm now finding my periods are super heavy/clotty and very painful. They almost always occur during the second week of utrogestan and not on withdrawal from it.
My gynaecologist recommended increasing the utrogestan to 300mg as he said this would regulate the cycle and reduce blood loss. Is this correct?
My other option would be the merina if this doesn't work. Although sometimes he said this can make things worse... :o
He's also booking me in for a pelvic scan where they will take a biopsy of the womb lining just to check nothing else happening unrelated to the HRT.
Having only just stabilised in the last month I am very nervous and wary of messing with the hormone levels. What does anyone think? Shall I increase to 300mg??
Any thoughts and advice gratefully received!
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Hi all!
I'm going to pick up my prescription today for utrogestan and oestrogel - I'm moving over from Evorel Sequi. As is the case with most people just now, I was only able to have a telephone conversation with my GP about the change over and it felt rushed, so didn't ask an important question so I wondered if you could help. Can I start taking the new prescription today? I am currently on day 21 of my cycle ie I am taking the patch that contains both estrogen and progesterone. My period is due at the end of this week? I'm not due to pick up the prescription until later this afternoon so should I take my patch off now in preparation for taking the new ones later today?
Thanks for any advice you can give! 🙏
Hi Zar - did you decide what to do?
If you are due to take the new prescription in a cyclical basis then you should ideally continue at the same point in the cycle. Depending where you are in menopause it might not matter. However in your position i would actually finish the course of Evorel sequi ie until Day 28 and then start the gel the next day as Day 1. Then take the Utrogestan as prescribed days 15-26 and continue with your 28 day cycle.
Hurdity x
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Hi everyone,
Ive just had a telephone appointment with my gynaecologist and wanted to run his recommendations past you all.
Ive been on 4 pumps oestrogel and 200mg utrogestan from day 14 -28 for 7 months now. I'm 51 and as far as I'm aware I'm still in peri.
The majority of my symptoms have improved but I'm now finding my periods are super heavy/clotty and very painful. They almost always occur during the second week of utrogestan and not on withdrawal from it.
My gynaecologist recommended increasing the utrogestan to 300mg as he said this would regulate the cycle and reduce blood loss. Is this correct?
My other option would be the merina if this doesn't work. Although sometimes he said this can make things worse... :o
He's also booking me in for a pelvic scan where they will take a biopsy of the womb lining just to check nothing else happening unrelated to the HRT.
Having only just stabilised in the last month I am very nervous and wary of messing with the hormone levels. What does anyone think? Shall I increase to 300mg??
Any thoughts and advice gratefully received!
Hi Jane50 - I would go with what your gyane suggested. It isn't often that 300 mg is prescribed although the research I've read showed that this is sometimes needed especially when given orally I think? The thing is if this is what is needed to prevent the womb lining from thickening and reducing the intensity of your bleeds then that's what you should do, unless you go down the route of the Mirena which should help keep the womb consistently thinner. If you do have a scan, make sure you arrange to time it immediately following your bleed, when your lining should be at its thinnest. It is not of quite such value to have one at other times because the womb lining thickens and thins as part of the natural and artificial HRT cycle, although I don't think the biopsy is affected by this? Not sure here. Also re the dose - the main thing is if you can tolerate this higher dose. Also have you been taking it vaginally or orally? Another alternative is to take the same dose but vaginally (if you feel that 300 mg orally might be too much for you depending on your tolerance levels?) which is more effective in protecting the uterus.
Hurdity x
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Thanks so much Hurdity.
I take the utrogestan orally. I've considered taking it vaginally but there seem to be a few people on here who have had problems with that method so I'm a bit nervous. Again, it's all trial and error I guess. I'm just enjoying feeling well for the first time in over a year and am so worried about rocking the boat. It took all my courage to take the 300mg last night. Menopause has turned me into a raging hypochondriac! I'll see how I go with the oral dose now that you've okayed it. (Your advice on this site has kept me sane over the last few months!) Thanks also for the advice re the scan. The gynae suggested having the Merina fitted while they were already poking around up there... :o
I've got options I guess so I'll see what the 300mg does.
So grateful for all help and support this site has :)
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I am taking utrogesten orally. It makes me q bloated tho and I have put on a bit of weigh around my middle. Are there less side effects from the gel as it doesn't pass trhough the system?
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Thank you so much for all your replies to my post x
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Hello all, I have been on the oestrogel (3 pumps) and Utrogestan (1 tablet vaginally every other night) regime now for 2 months now after finally making the decision to go for it. I am 50 and no idea where I am in the Menopause as I had an ablation 5 years ago after very heavy and frequent periods. I've been getting lots of symptoms for some years so presumed I am perimenopausal but had some blood tests last month and the Doctor said to continue with 3 pumps as my oestrogen levels were normal and that my FSH level was very high at 79.6 so I am peri or post... Guessing I will never know when I am actually post, or if I ever need to know?
The main reason for this message is that I've been getting awful reflux so started on omeprazole, but this gave me a very tight chest (or the reflux did as I'm asthmatic!) so I dropped that and am now just guzzling gaviscon and upping the exercise/healthy diet regime. But I've been wondering, I have read so many other women getting reflux amongst the other symptoms (of which mine seem to be plenty like everyone else), could the reflux be due to taking oestrogen or is it purely a menopausal symptom (assuming no other lifestyle factors)?
If my reflux and other symptoms continue while on Estrogel, would I then gradually increase the dose until my symptoms disappear or should I wait a full 3 months to review? I have certainly slept better since starting the gel and I don't have any hot flushes any more, but I do have irritability, brain fog, strange weak limbs in the morning etc. I wasn't sure if I just accept the benefits now with the current dose or if I am aiming for a utopian catch-all effect?!! Thanks for listening to my waffle :)
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I changed from Evoral Conti to oestrogel (1 pump morning and 1 evening) and Utrogestan (1 in the evening) about 4weeks ago
I am having a rough time atm anyway as my mum was ill in hospital then died
I am queasy in the mornings to the point of vomiting and in the evening I have heartburn and more queasiness - plus a rotten 'almost' headache, sort of wooliness
So can I up or down either of them to reduce the queasiness/headache?
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It is the Utrogestan making you queasy, I use 12 per month 100mg vaginally every other month and I actually dream that I am being sick and wake up gagging, horrid stuff, but unfortunately necessary.
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Can I take any less of it? I have no ovaries (if that matters)
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I was wondering I'm on 2pumps oestogel and 100mg tablet vaginal every night my ears are ringing is it safe to use the utrogesten every other night vaginally if so what effect will this have will I bleed not had a bleed for 9 years so wouldn't really want one I'm 59 8 years post Ty
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Hello all, I have been on the oestrogel (3 pumps) and Utrogestan (1 tablet vaginally every other night) regime now for 2 months now after finally making the decision to go for it. I am 50 and no idea where I am in the Menopause as I had an ablation 5 years ago after very heavy and frequent periods. I've been getting lots of symptoms for some years so presumed I am perimenopausal but had some blood tests last month and the Doctor said to continue with 3 pumps as my oestrogen levels were normal and that my FSH level was very high at 79.6 so I am peri or post... Guessing I will never know when I am actually post, or if I ever need to know?
The main reason for this message is that I've been getting awful reflux so started on omeprazole, but this gave me a very tight chest (or the reflux did as I'm asthmatic!) so I dropped that and am now just guzzling gaviscon and upping the exercise/healthy diet regime. But I've been wondering, I have read so many other women getting reflux amongst the other symptoms (of which mine seem to be plenty like everyone else), could the reflux be due to taking oestrogen or is it purely a menopausal symptom (assuming no other lifestyle factors)?
If my reflux and other symptoms continue while on Estrogel, would I then gradually increase the dose until my symptoms disappear or should I wait a full 3 months to review? I have certainly slept better since starting the gel and I don't have any hot flushes any more, but I do have irritability, brain fog, strange weak limbs in the morning etc. I wasn't sure if I just accept the benefits now with the current dose or if I am aiming for a utopian catch-all effect?!! Thanks for listening to my waffle :)
Hi Lulu
Sorry to hear about your problems. FSH is usually suppressed by oestrogen so not sure why yours has recorded as high if it was measured from the same blood sample. The main thing is to go by symptoms. The blood tests are not necessary and in any case are not accurate. Just a point in time and also partly dependent on when you applied your gel, and where on the body etc. If your menopausal symptoms are controlled (ie flushes and sweats being the main ones) then the dose is right.
Once you start HRT, if you were peri-menopausal then you will never know exactly when you reached menopause - but this doesn't matter!
I can't help with the indigestion but I did have an idea that if you take too many anti-acids it can make things worse? Also can hinder absorption of vitamins and minerals from the gut? Not sure what Gaviscon has in it but I tend to use the standard chalky indigestion tablets when I get symptoms, as the least invasive non-drug treatment which does the trick for me.
Also I can't see that the oestrogel or utro (taken vaginally) would cause this but more likely your changing body perhaps, and as you say diet and exercise will help. If you are overweight this can make it worse. High fat diets, alcohol and rich food can also cause this. However i'm not an expert on this as I don't really get it except mildly! There are threads on this topic in the general health section.
Hurdity x
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Can you see my posts I've posted three times and not got any replies from anyone ?
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I can see this post. Can you indicate which posts you did not get replies to? Perhaps bump them to the top?
JP x
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One above this post one on previous page x
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I was wondering I'm on 2pumps oestogel and 100mg tablet vaginal every night my ears are ringing is it safe to use the utrogesten every other night vaginally if so what effect will this have will I bleed not had a bleed for 9 years so wouldn't really want one I'm 59 8 years post Ty
julie55, is it this post you didn't get an answer to? I'm afraid I can't answer myself (not on any progesterone) but hopefully someone else will see it now. Things do get missed sometimes!
JP x
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Julie55, sorry your post got missed. You shouldn't deviate from the standard dose of utrogeston without the agreement of your doc and/or regular scans. Some people who are progesterone intolerant use less and are fine but it might be that you're not. If your lining builds up you're at greater risk of cancer. If you think utrogeston is responsible for the ringing in your ears (is it a known side effect in the patient info?) I would use it sequentially for 2-3 months (200mg for 12 days) so you can see if it makes a difference when you're it on it. If utro is responsible then either a long cycle or see if you're better with a different progestin. I have ringing in my ears too but I've had it for many years, it started well before meno.
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Thank you so much for your kind reply I will stick with it and see if I improve as I don't want a bleed and my Dr not very well up on menopause had to beg for gel don't really want to be going back and complaint about it maybe it's to early and it's not settled yet hopefully it will this is my fourth hrt since shortage and it's the only one that suits apart from the ear thing Ty so much xx
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Hello
I am new so not sure how to post properly yet.
I have been reading so many old threads about estrodiol and utrogestan.
Im on about the 4th week now and have finished my first 25 days and after a break back on the Utrogestan.
Most symptoms are ok now but I still get fatigue, anxiety on and off and weakness especially when doing yoga.
I pop the gel on alternate legs and am on 1mg and then the Utrogestan days 1-25.
I do get a little low and unmotivated and have been feeling so alone with it.
Just wanted to share. I have an appt with the doc next week so im hoping maybe she can tweak the hrt a bit as I know sometimes it takes a while tk get right.
😁😁😁
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Can someone explain long cycle and the 12 day one please x
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I use Utrogestan 100mg on a long cycle so I dont use it monthly, I use it every 2 months, but I am on a very low dose of 1 pump a day of the oestrogel and I do have an annual scan although I am well overdue now with the lockdown but need to schedule one. It gives me a short 4 day withdrawal bleed which is hopefully keeping the lining thin.
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Yoga girl it's early days yet, it took 3 months for my anxiety to go. I think you should give it a bit longer. You may want to 0padd testosterone when your oestrogen levels are stable. It improved my muscle tone and I stopped pulling muscles. Also helped mood and motivation.
julie55 you will have a bleed this way. You take 200mg utrogeston for 12 days per cycle. Most people use a 6 week cycle. It should give you long enough only on oestrogen to see if utrogeston is responsible for your ear problem.
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Cassie can you please explain more please long cycle ? how many days each month do you take utrogesten sorry I sound thick x I'm on two pumps and 100mg vaginal continus x Shelia 99 so out of 6 weeks you take 200 mg for 12 days Ty x
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I take it for 12 days ever 2nd month.
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@sheila99 Thanku.My main problem is fatigue, weakness and bloating.Anxiety is only now and then.
So many different way to take Utrogestan.How do I know how much is enough to protect the lining?Im in peri
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The manufacturer says 200mg x 12 days if using it cyclically. It's the same dose if you take it orally or vaginally. As they are the ones who did the testing I assume they know better than anyone else. You know you're at greater risk of cancer if you're lining builds up so if you use less you should have regular scans to check it. Many people do seem to be OK on a lower dose but you don't know if you're the one that isn't.
How is your libido? It's usually a good indicator of low testosterone.
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Haha not really keen to talk about my libido on here😳
I may try the 200mg for the 12 days once chatted to the doctor.Bloating is going down too!Phew
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You say you're in peri? In which case you should be using it cyclically anyway. There's no need to be embarrassed on here, many of us have embarrassing problems and it's sometimes easier to talk about with people who don't know who you are. If you post in the Private Lives forum only members can see it. My libido was zero.
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Hi all,
I have just been pondering why it's OK to have the Merina whilst in peri to provide a steady dose of progesterone and as such reduce/stop bleeding but it's not recommended to orally take progesterone daily for the same result...
I've just started on 300mg utrogestan orally to control and regulate heavy bleeds and will try vaginally on next cycle. I don't much fancy the Merina as an option at the moment but would like something that offered me the same result lol!
Presume it must be the delivery method of the progesterone?
Jane x
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Hi Jane50
Yes the high dose of progestogen from the Mirena is delivered directly to the uterus lining with far less getting into the bloodstream compared with oral intake. Also the progestogen ( levonorgestrel) in the Mirena is more powerful in terms of endometrial protection, than progesterone.
If you took `100 mg oral progesterone daily during peri then you may well reduce bleeding to some extent but not in the same way as a Mirena.
Vaginal progesterone is more protective but most women would not want to do this on a daily basis.
Hurdity x
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Hi, new to this forum.
I was prescribed 2 pumps estrogel daily and 100mg continuous Utrogestan (since Feb) for acute debilitating night sweats. Have managed to go without hrt until then and hadn't had a period for 7 months. Since then I have had terrible mood swings and been bleeding a lot...but no night sweats. I feel like I've added a whole lot of new issues I didn't have before. My gp suggested upping Utrogestan to 200. Big mistake. I'm clearly very intolerant to it. Tried the pessaries, also very bad reaction. I have now lowered the pump to 1 and taking 100mg Utrogestan alternate nights.Feel so much better. Still bleeding but not heavily. Does anyone else do this?
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As you are peri rather than meno (1 year without a bleed) you should be using it cyclically, 200mg for 12 days per cycle. This will give you some time without progesterone so you can see the difference. If you take less than the standard dose you should have scans to make sure your lining isn't building up. You might consider a long cycle if your own periods are infrequent, perhaps 6 weeks, or you could try a different type of progesterone.
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Hi sheila99,
Thanks for your reply. Guess I thought if I lowered the pump it would lessen the bleeding too. If the hot flushes start up again I would increase it to 2 pumps. My problem is I can't tolerate the 200mg dose of Utrogestan, even when using pessaries.
I'm going to talk to my GP but it's nice to have some input from those who are really in the know!
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I'm on two pumps and 100mg vaginal daily
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I have recently changed from Evorel Conti (not absorbing properly!), over to 2 pumps oestrogel and prog 100 vaginally (Also recently diagnosed endo hyperplasia 13/14mm)
With having PMDD I am very hormone change intolerant, and have my pituitary gland 'switched off' with Prostap Injections monthly.
Soo....initially first few doses of oestrogel & progesterone, I actually felt 'normal' the most normal I have felt in years....I was properly excited for the future....and i'm not saying it's turned horrendous, but there are definite changes in my personality over the last few days, and I am seeing my Gyn tomorrow. I can be calm and quiet, or screechy, or even sedated feeling at times too. Generally, though I am losing interest in things I normally enjoy.
What are your thoughts, I feel I am buggered because I have to have a progesterone! I get serious palps without the oestrogel.....or could the oestrogel not be high enough??
My brain just isn't working anymore :( ::)
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Hi all
I'm new to HRT (since February this year), so this forum has been a godsend to me! As has the HRT for the dramatic improvement in my quality of life! I'm 52.
I started on Evorel Sequi (50) patches but due to shortages have now changed to Oestrogel (2 pumps) and utrogestan (200mg - 2 x 100 mg days 15 to 26). Just started this regime last week. The patches were great but shortly before changing to gel/tablet, I noticed I was getting the odd tiny flush now and then. Since moving to gel/tablet it's been the same. Nothing horrendous and I can live with it (before HRT I was having a severe flush every half an hour - proper sweating ones where I looked like I'd had a bucket of water thrown over my face! Clothes soaking! Had a huge impact on my career as I ended up reducing my working days to 2 days - but that's a whole other story for another forum!). But I wondered if a small flush now and then is a sign that I should up my dose? I also have fuzzy tinnitus. Last night as a trial I put a 3rd pump of gel on before bed - I got a fab sleep and woke up clear headed and rested. Feel great today.
I'm trying to get through to my doctor to ask but it's been engaged all morning. So I wondered if you have any thoughts on this. Can I go up to 3 pumps if I like or is it best to get clearance from the doctor? Also, if I up my oestrogel, do I need to change my utrogestan dose to match?
Thanks for all your support, help and advice.
Ps as a side note: HRT has had such a positive impact on my life, I have lost a stone as I now have the energy to exercise and don't fatigue as easily as I did before! All of my aches and pains have gone! No creaky knees and odd muscular pains! ☺️. Long may it last! x
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Update! Got a call from the nurse who said it's ok to go up to 3 pumps. Infact I could go to 4. I may have to as I've had a couple of quite significant flushes today even after taking the 3rd pump 😖😖😖! I?ll see how I get on with 3 for a while first.
Last question - I've only been on the utrogestan phase for a few days but I feel very bloated. My tummy is bloated. I take the tablets orally so I wondered if going through the vaginal route might help this? Or is bloating just something that happens with progesterone regardless of the route? If I try the vaginal route do I still take 2 x 100 mg on my usual cycle: days 15 to 25?
I must apologise for the fact that there are random question marks everywhere 😂! 🤷🏻♀️
Thanks for all your support and advice x
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If you take it vaginally it's the same dose and the same capsules. You need to take it just before you go to to bed though - gravity - just push them up as far as you can. Definitely worth trying it this way. I don't get bloating but haven't taken it orally.
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Hi Zar, I have always taken utrogestan vaginally 100mg last thing at night with 2 pumps of Estrogel as I have Coeliac disease - and the less things that have to pass through my intestines - the better !
Sometimes I get bloating and always have Stomach cramp the day my bleed starts - sometimes quite bad , but when I had normal periods I always had terrible cramps ( wish I'd had the hysterectomy)
But the pros outweigh the cons - and I wouldn't go back to feeling as awful as I did before the Gel and the utro , stick with it , it took at least 9 months for my bleeding to settle into a pattern ,which is now manageable :)
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Wow. Tonight I have estrogel on one thigh, voltarol on another testosterone on my forearms and liothyronine in my mouth... jeez getting older is like a trip to Pizza Hut ice cream factory WITH ALL THE TOPPINGS ;D
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Ditto Zar - as sheila99. I've never taken it orally and never had bloating with Utrogestan
Hurdity x
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Thanks everyone for your response. I?ll try vaginal tonight then. I feel happy with the Utrogestan other than that. I did always get bloating at that time of the month naturally so it may just be something I need to put up with.
Just another thing to mention - yesterday afternoon I went up to 3 pumps of Estrogel (I took an extra pump) as I'd had a few small flushes. But I didn't like it. The fuzzy tinnitus got stronger and I was conscious of feeling my heartbeat - it was thumping in my head. I wear a Fitbit which reports on your daily resting heartbeat and it's been pretty steady at 56 bpm for a while now (that's resting heartbeat) but when I went to bed last night it had jumped up to 59 as the day's average. While lying on bed relaxing I was conscious of it beating quite fast - up in the 70's even when lying supposedly relaxing - and I could feel and hear it thumping in my head 😖. I'm certain it's to do with the Estrogel so today I'm going back to 2 pumps but I think I?ll call the doctor and ask to go back on the patches as I feel that the estrogen must be released at a more steady rate throughout the day with the patches (not sure if I've just made that up?).
I guess this is all trial and error as you guys on this forum keep saying. I?ll get there eventually - I'm really just fine-tuning and tweaking now!
Thanks again for all your help and words of advice. x
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Getting the right dose can be trial and error and I agree 3 pumps is too much. When I was trying to sort mine out I increased by half a pump at a time so could try increasing by a bit rather than a whole pump. I find that an advantage with gel but of course you could always cut a bit off a patch too. I started on patches but had to change because of an allergic reaction. I can't say I've noticed any peaks and troughs with gel.
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Hey all!
Thanks again for all of your advice. My update is that a quick call to the doctor and pharmacist has resulted in my return to patches. I felt really odd on the gel and I was still getting hot flushes so perhaps wasn't absorbing it well enough. So I'm now on Evorel 50 + utrogestan 200 (2 x 100) on days 15 to 26. I feel I should be on Evorel 75 but they are not in stock so I've put on a 50 Patch plus half of another one to make it up to 75. So far so good today.
The only thing I've noticed is that the utrogestan (Orally) seems to have made my fuzzy tinnitus worse. When I'm busy I don't notice it, but when sitting quietly it's noisy and frustrating and I can hear my heartbeat. I know I should try the vaginal route but have chickened out so far, really because I've read on here that people often go down to 100 mg vaginally as the absorption is better so I'm hesitant to absorb 200 mg vaginally incase it makes me feel worse and also not sure if I should go down to 100 mg so soon. I think I?ll give this routine a chance to settle and then think about vaginally next month if the tinnitus doesn't go away.
Hope you are all well! I really appreciate your input and support! x
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Hi Zar,
Because progesterone absorption is so much more efficient when it's taken vaginally, the 100mg dosage for taking Utrogestan vaginally is supposed to be equivalent to the 200mg oral dose. So if you do choose to take 1x100mg capsule vaginally don't worry about going 'down' in dose because you won't actually be reducing how much your body absorbs.
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Not according to the manufacturer who you would have expected to have done sufficient testing to know. The dose is exactly the same whichever way you take it. If you take less it should be done with the agreement of your doc and regular scans to make sure your lining isn't building up. You're at greater risk of cancer if your lining isn't thin so IMO not worth the risk unless you can't cope with the side effects. Many people do take less are are OK but you don't know if you're the one that isn't.
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You're absolutely right, sheila99, about taking any dose under appropriate medical supervision.
Zar - Hurdity has just bumped a really useful thread that includes lots of info about different doses and routes of administration for Utrogestan, in case you're interested. Look for "Vaginal progesterone inc Utrogestan, and endometrial protection: some studies"
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Thanks pluto :)
Thing is Zar - when taken orally there are large quantities of metabolic by products which are what some women find gives them side effects, whereas taken vaginally much of it goes straight to the uterus where it is needed (hence the lower dosage to give endometrial protection). The progesterone absorbed into the bloodstream through the vagina/cervix does not have to go through the liver so these metabolites are not produced in high quantities.
Although sheila99 is right that the manufacturers give the vaginal route at the same dose as an alternative to oral intake, the research (limited trials) on the thread pluto mentioned here https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43633.30.html not carried out by the manufacturers, do show that on average half the dose taken vaginally can be sufficient when compared with oral intake. However as sheila99 says this should only be done under medical supervision so that your womb remains protected.
Ideally initially you would use the licensed dose for a few months and see how your womb reacted, before reducing if eg no bleed - but after consultation with your doctor.
Hurdity x
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Hi all.
I posted a few weeks ago as I've been advised to start 300mg utrogestan from days 14 - 28 to help reduce heavy bleeding. I'm 51, peri and am on 4 pumps oestrogel.
During my first cycle of this (last month) I took 300mg orally. My period was spread over a week, spotting at beginning stopping and starting and at end but 2 heavy days in middle including flooding that went everywhere! :o
I am now 2 days into my second cycle and am trying it vaginally. Both nights after insertion resulted in night sweats and anxiety through the night. I am feeling teary and angry also :(. I've read that there are supposedly fewer side effects taking it vaginally but seems to have had opposite effect for me.
What to do? Reduce to 200mg vaginally? Go back to 300mg orally? Persevere with 300 vaginally?? Am also thinking could I try 100mg every day with three day break?
Any advice greatly appreciated x
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Hi,
I've just started (2 nights ago) to try my 100mg daily utrogestan vaginally, to see if it makes any difference, as was having abdominal issues taking it orally??
In the mornings I have woken up with a slimy kind of feeling all around the outside down there (sorry if TMI?!).
Is this normal? - and how do I know the stuff is getting to go where it needs to? So far no other sides effects, fingers crossed.
Can you alternate with vaginal and oral use, or is it better to stick with just one route? Is is ok to use at same time as Vagifem?
Oh the confusion Jane50, its a real pain! Hope you get sorted x
Thanks
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hi ladies
any hairloss on this regime ?
i’m struggling between doses
as 2 pumps alternate utro i don’t feel as good and tired on 2.5 pumps daily utro i was feeling good but bigger boobs and bloating and hair shedding worse and sweating from armpits water
not sure what dose to stick on plus my main only symtoms was vaginally possible VA and get this dampness watery discharge which improved on higher dose and tesosterone added in but the loosing more hair plod sweaty armpits x would u say that because of the above it to much estrogen and utro x
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Didn’t know where to ask this question so hope ok on here!
I had a blood test in January when on 4 pumps gel and it was 162pmol/ml didn’t feel great but had better days than now! I then tried Everol 50 after reducing to 2 pumps of gel and after 2 weeks had a blood test result of 127pg/ml! So there were measured differently and now I have come off the patch due to heightened anxiety and palpitations And have gone back to 4 pumps! I have lots of nausea and anxious stomach feeing with low mood! 2 questions I am peri menopause with normal regular periods which of the 2 results Shkuld I feel better on and should I increase the gel now as when on 4 didn’t seem to be absorbing it very well! I’ve tried different HRT over the last 13 months and still can’t get it right. I seem to waste 3 months seeing if it helps( except the Everol which I couldn’t tolerate) any suggestions welcomed
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Hi, found this thread and am hoping someone has any ideas about why my period is coming in the middle of the progesterone rather than at the end as it’s suggested?
Thanks in advance
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Hi Smatt
It depends where you are in menopause. If you are peri-menopausal especially in early peri - with natural periods still coming fairly frequently before you started HRT, depending how long you've been taking it, then your natural cycle could still be breaking through. Normally HRT does not suppress the cycle especially with low to medium doses of oestrogen. Also if the lining is a bit thickened it can also lead to early bleeding. If it continues like this over the next few months then you could tweak the regime so the bleeding coincides with the withdrawal of the progesterone, although with erratic cycles this may only work a couple of times! As you get further towards menopause with fewer ovulations, then the bleeds should become more predictable and tie in with the progesterone part of the cycle more often.
Hurdity x
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Thanks so much for getting back! Your reply has shed more light than trawling thorough the internet For weeks!
I’ve been peri for 10 years...periods getting heavier, more erratic and other side effects like itching skin, forgetfulness and explosive temper led to doc suggesting hrt. Been in that for 6 months now.
All was going well until Last period lasted 22 days...
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Hi, I've just joined so new to this group.
I'm peri and have been for about a year. I've just started Utrogestan 200mg orally at night which I'm to take day 1 -12 and Oestrogel one pump twice a day.
I've not been sleeping due to flushes which is one reason for HRT and the other is libido, which is non existent.
I took my first capsules last nite and slept the whole night without even stirring. I feel hung over this morning. Anyone else experience this or am I just exhausted.
How about libido, does it return?
Lastly, I'm sure my gp said to apply the gel to my hip area which isn't what the directions say. Where do others apply it?
Thank you in advance.
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I have been trying different HRT since June 2019 and as posted a few times before can’t get it right! I’m now on 6 pumps of gel and feel worse! I have been advised by my specialist to increase to 8 pumps within the week as I don’t absorb well. She has also advised to start taking Utrogestron continuously for a no bleed routine . I am concerned about doing this as my periods were regular when I started HRT! Also I take it vaginally due to side effects of it orally. I 100% can’t do vaginally every day! My bloods were low so she said we need to get them nearer to 500- they were 127! She also advised waiting to Sandrena when I had used all my gel! Any advice welcomed to the following- should I increase to 8 pumps and does continuous Utrogestron sound right.
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Flan747, have you tried Estradot patches? I didn't absorb well with Oestrogel, and not much better on Sandrena, but seem to do much better on Estradot.
JP x
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I tried Everol patches but only used them for 2 weeks as symptoms became worse but actually no better on the gel. I was on 4 pumps beginning of the year but changed to patches as although felt a bit better I was no where near where I wanted to be. No idea what to do. My specialist is adament I should increase the gel.
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Hi Iam just about to start estrogel and utrogestan , doc never gave me any advice on how to start taking it! Do I wait till I have my period start on certain day of period ? Is it better to take utrogestan orally or vaginally ? Thanks any advice would be appreciated . X
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hi,
i am so confused
i am just starting on estrogel 0.06%, one application each day.
utrogestan 100mg capules take once a day.
unfortunately my brilliant gp, didnt explain things really. on the sheet in the box it says take on days 15-26 of cycle.
well, i dont have a cycle as havent had a period for about 10 years and then suddenly 6 months ago my hot flushes went mad, dr did blood test and said my fsh levels were very high.
and put me on hrt
so i really don;t know if i stop taking it on day 26 or do the continuous method because she didn;t tell me.
any one know?
i am currently on day 4 of taking them, so some help would be nice.
thanks in advance
sandie x
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Hi fibrosandie
Yes you take the Utrogestan every day. Taking it on days 15-26 is for ladies who are still having periods . X
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Hi Iam just about to start estrogel and utrogestan , doc never gave me any advice on how to start taking it! Do I wait till I have my period start on certain day of period ? Is it better to take utrogestan orally or vaginally ? Thanks any advice would be appreciated . X
Hi Pink
Depends how often your perids are. if they are still coming every few weeks or so even though longer than 28 days then you can start the oestrogel on the first day of the bleed (Day 1) then start counting and take the utrogestan (200 mg daily) on days 15-26 and so on. From then onwards you just keep on with the 28 day cycle. If your periods are few and far between then just start any time and count the first day of the oestrogel as Day 1 and take it from there. If it turns out that you are way out of sync with your natural cycle then you can tweak the timing a bit. In this case (very infrequent periods) some women actually take the utrogestan part monthly ie starting it on the same day each calendar month (eg 1st -12th) - because their own cycle may well not occur that often.
Hurdity x
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Hi Dotty,
so, if i take them everyday, does that mean i won't get a bleed?
sorry, to ask so many questions but my doctor literally told me absolutely nothing.
Thanks for your help
Sandie x
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Hi fibrosandie...you shouldn't get a bleed if you take them every day, although breakthrough bleeding can happen in the first 3-6 months of starting hrt. x
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Hi hurdity, thanks for replying periods are all over the place, can go 2 months then take them regular next month. Is this quite a good regime for hrt ? X
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I have been going through my diary of symptoms and there is a definate pattern that I fee better on the Utrogestron. Could this be a coincidence as most people feel bad on it? I use it vaginally so obviously do not want to take it continuously.
My specialist has advised this bit to change it to orally which I am apprehensive doing as I’m not good with any forms of tablets
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Hi fibrosandie...you shouldn't get a bleed if you take them every day, although breakthrough bleeding can happen in the first 3-6 months of starting hrt. x
hi dotty, thanks for your help.
weirdest thing happened tonight, after taking it, had tingling sensation of lips and tongue.
just wondered if anyone else noticed this, i am on day 6
thanks
sandie x
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Hi Everyone
This thread is fabulous, so supportive so I wonder if anyone can shed some light on my current issues.
Aged 46 and have been peri for just over a year, periods regular, tried Femoston 1/10 and 2/10 to begin with but
didn't get on with them. Been using Oestrogel (2 pumps daily) and Utrogestan 100mg days 1-25 with 5 day break as prescribed by my GP.
Things improved, however my mood was very flat....read that this could be the Utrogestan.
After reading this thread I noticed that women who are still have periods generally are taking the Utrogestan on days
15-26 (2 x 100mg orally or 1 x 100mg vaginally). After speaking to my GP she agreed that perhaps I should change the way
I take the Utrogestan to see if it improves my mood, so I opted for taking it on days 15-26, 1 x 100mg vaginally and I also started taking an extra pump of gel.
All seems to be going well, my mood is better and I feel more like my old self. However this cycle my period was delayed by 2/3 days and today (Day 2 ) and yesterday I have had the most severe cramping for over 3 hours (this happened on Femoston). In fact I have had to take 2 days off work because it feels like I am in labour. Excrutiating cramps, Tingling in legs, feet & hands, nausea, vomiting, disorientation - not sure if this is beacuse the pain is so intense. The weird thing is I have not bled today and only bled a little yesterday although it was a bit clotty (sorry!) I am so confused :( Do you think this is due to the extra pump of gel? Or the change in how I take Utrogestan? Really don't know what to think. I seriously can't cope with having labour type pains every month. Please, please any help or advise would be most welcome
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Hello ladies, sorry I'm jumping in here but I'm currently on holiday abroad and need some urgent advice, my regime is the utrogestan x12 day's and evorel 50 patch but due to circumstances at home and then this holiday I have gone 8 week's between cycles (therefore missing out one month) and today I have have began bleeding, we're only a few days from the end of the holiday and I was wondering if I start using the utrogestan now (vaginally like I always do) will it stop the bleed? At the moment it's only light but I'm terrified the flood gates will open, we have a sightseeing day planned with friends tomorrow and I don't want to ruin it, I don't have any sanitary products with me either. I'm 58 and 6 years post meno and I've been on this regime for almost 5 years, only thing different is I changed From estradot patch to evorel due to the current shortages 5 months ago. Any advice appreciated asap, hoping the bleed will just be a"show" but basically will taking the utrogestan now stop it?
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Hi lovely Ladies
I have only just signed up but have looked at the site many times and particularly like ‘Hurdity’s’ extremely informative posts ❤️
I need a bit of help I am a bit of a ‘Talker’ but will try and curb my natural instinct to ‘Rabbit’ lol! However I am a firm believer if you don’t have all the facts and the background info (and that’s on anything!) then how can you give an informed answer/decision .....so here goes.......
I have been on HRT for about 8 years altogether all good to start with then about 3 years ago fell into a downward spiral and was extremely depressed (wanted to jump in the Sea whilst on Holiday with my lovely Hubby & not for a paddle!) Thankfully on my return I did some research (read all of Dr J Strutt’s papers etc) and demanded my Doc refer me to the Chel&Westminster Meno Clinic the only NHS one in the whole of Kent and the SE.
They are absolutely brilliant cannot praise them highly enough, but they are so so busy......my quandary is I had a Mirena Coil HRT one fitted last year alongside the 4 daily pumps of Estrogel and 1 squirt of Tostan twice a week but had incredible bloating continually and gained over a Stone in weight I have always been extremely active taught Martial Arts for 20+ years alongside my day job ......and had a ‘feeling’ that my body was trying to dispel the Coil. I had a Contraceptive one many years ago and managed to expel it which I didn’t know till I went to Whitechapel Hospital thinking I had ‘lost’ it!! So they suggested removing it which they did 2 weeks ago and gave me Norethisterone 5mg a day in addition to the aforementioned regime. They looked at my scans again and said my Womb was small and a bit ?? Thought she said tiilted but a medical term and I didn’t ask what exactly-doh! Said they thought the Mirena was too big for me & I should have the Jaydess one when they are able to resume fitting them I said I would try the tablets and let them know. In 3-4 days the tummy bloating had gone down dramatically (My Daughter who is avidly taking notes for when it’s her turn, God love her! Confirmed it was true and not because I willed it!) both her & Hubby noticed that I had become ‘spikier’ than is naturally usual.......I’m 5ft and born in the North it’s in my genes & my Parents are from the South of Ireland 😁.......I feel I am trying to be upbeat as desperately want everything to work and I know I am heaps luckier than lots of peeps on here but I have had my fair share of crap over the years, but am an external optimist if sometimes a bit ‘ranty’ with it........could the Norethisterone (Which I am taking at bedtime, I couldn’t find any info on when it should be taken) be making me tired, yawning all day, joints hurting, suddenly constipated! Know it’s mega hot but hands and ankles swollen, hands sort of tingly, buzzing almost I have been a competitive Martial Artist in my time so am very aware of small changes in my body.........Previously I was on Utrogestan 100mg 1-2 tabs nightly but was still having bleeding hence them putting the Mirena in but I will be 58 in 5 days time so surely can’t still have a bleed........my feeling is that the Progestrone part of the mix is not right for me somehow.......Apologies for the length of this and if there is anybody out there that has had similar or can offer any advice I would be most grateful. Anniexx🙏
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I am on 7pumps due to poor absorption and the last week has been pretty good. I am a week before my period and today I can feel things changing again for the worse. My specialist has advised increasing to 8! Anyone else on such high amounts ?
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I was on eight pumps but it still didn't work for me.
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Baby - what are you on now? I'm on 4 pumps and hot flushes, night sweats, insomnia blah blah are all back. I'm waiting on appt with gynae as 5mm lining and adenomyosis so don't want to risk upping my oestrogen without consultation. If upping it would even work... 🙄. Feeling a little despondent.
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Feeling dreadful today! Remain on 7 pumps and cannot get hold of my specialist whether I should increase to 8 as I am in the run up to my period or whether actually I am now on too much! Any ideas welcomed? I feel like stopping it all and see what happens as I feel so bad on this regime
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Can’t stop crying really weak body and don’t know what to do! Can’t get hold of anyone for advice. I’ve been advised to increase from 3 pumps to 7 and I’ve done this within 3 weeks! Now Feel this is too much but specialist wants me to go up to 8! Really confused and worried. When I spoke last week about my results being read in pg and pmol the specialist said this doesn’t matter but surely this is not right?
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Hi I was wondering if someone could give me some advice please. I started estrogel today My period before starting was 12 days late. I didn’t know if I should have waited for period to start first. Do I take gel from now till day 12 then start utrogestan 12/26 then when do I restart gel on it’s own again? Would this be after bleed. When should you start to feel effects ? Can you feel them straight away as feeling really bloated and crampy!
Thanks. X
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I wonder if I can have some advice/suggestions please? I've at last got a referral to a 'menopause clinic' (NHS), near the end of the week. I've been on 2 pumps of oestrogel for over a year, along with utrogestan, which I'm taking 5 nights a week, vaginally, ive not discussed that with gp, as they've not much idea, so I've done that off my own bat. I'm supposed to be on it every night orally, but from the past, I think I'm not good with progesterone.
I only got a referral because my gp said 2 pumps was the maximum dose! And I also would be interested in trying testosterone...I'm still in hell, anxiety and mood wise etc, though at least the hot flushes and sweats are much lessened.
I would like tests, as I'm so all over the place, putting a lot of weight on also, but what I'm wondering, is how to approach the consultant....what and how do I ask for? I really don't want to try synthetic hormones. I'm used to being fobbed off, as I've had ME for 30 years and fibromyalgia for 20, but I really don't want that to happen, as I'm desperate, mood wise, and have so many extra symptoms, that may or may not be due to the Menopause (last period was 5 years ago by the way).
Any suggestions gratefully received, I'm rubbish with getting through to doctors!
Thanks in advance 🙂
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hi ladies
i am on utrogestan 100mg and estrogel 1 pump at night, been on it about 10 days now.
just wondered if anyone can give me an idea of how long it takes to help symptoms.
my hot flushes seem to be worse.
any help or comments would be appreciated.
thanks
Sandie x
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hi flan747
am i ask where you apply the gel as i used 2 pumps on thighs but didn’t obsorb and increased to 3 but felt awful took a break from it 2 months and went back but combined progesterone daily and applies the gel to my arms obsorbing so much better so am on 2.5 pumps daily utro and tostran one pump every other day only issue i have which i have had since starting hrt is hair shedding and no matter what dose the only thing that stops it is stopping hrt yes i don’t sleep well still and have sweating armpits especially in the heat but bloating and weight gain so will go a little longer however if dosent stop hair shedding i’m coming off it . but if you apply to thighs try arms as i’m on 2:5 pumps and level was 1238 pmol which is upper end but mood so much better i do well on progesterone estrogen unopposed not good
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Hi Sammiejane
Yes I apply to inner thighs? I have a blood test booked for today to see how I am absorbing and appt with specialist on Saturdays who then wants to change me to Sandrena as she says is superior to Oestrogel? I believe it is recommended that is applied to arms due to thinner skin and therefore better absorption! I only managed 10 days progesterone so will see how next few days go as it may also that which is the problem! I have thought about slowly stopping to see where I am at but am petrified of all the awful unmanageable symptoms returning! I have been on HRT now for 14 months and still can’t get it right! Each time I try for 3 months so so give it a good go! Will keep you posted how I get on
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hi ladies
i am on utrogestan 100mg and estrogel 1 pump at night, been on it about 10 days now.
just wondered if anyone can give me an idea of how long it takes to help symptoms.
my hot flushes seem to be worse.
any help or comments would be appreciated.
thanks
Sandie x
Hi Sandi,
I too started the same medication 10 days ago.
I have found it to be really helpful, no more flushes and sleeping soo well.
Perhaps change where u apply gel, maybe ur not absorbing it so well.
Hope u feel better soon.
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Why did your doctor say 2 pumps was the max you could take Winnie?
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Through pure ignorance I believe, she was new, and said she'd checked and that was what she'd found out! X
Why did your doctor say 2 pumps was the max you could take Winnie?
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I'm not sure. But I went up to eight pumps which didn't make any difference anyway. I think only five days utro is not enough though but I could be wrong. Hopefully someone on here might know a bit more.
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hi ladies
i am on utrogestan 100mg and estrogel 1 pump at night, been on it about 10 days now.
just wondered if anyone can give me an idea of how long it takes to help symptoms.
my hot flushes seem to be worse.
any help or comments would be appreciated.
thanks
Sandie x
Hi Sandi,
I too started the same medication 10 days ago.
I have found it to be really helpful, no more flushes and sleeping soo well.
Perhaps change where u apply gel, maybe ur not absorbing it so well.
Hope u feel better soon.
hi kate
thanks for your response
could you tell me how long after you started, that you saw results as in hot flushes. mine seem to be more often than they were before.
i am applying the gel at 21.30 hrs and putting it on the top of my outer arm, and take the tablet orally.
is that what you are doing?
thanks
sandie
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Hi Sandi, yes im doing the same although I alternate between arms and inner thighs.
I noticed a difference very quickly, the biggest difference was that I slept so well, I hadn't slept in weeks properly. The flushes stopped within a few days.
Its day 13 today so no pills but I've come on already which I wasn't expecting.
Also I'm wide awake at almost midnight.
Be good to compare with you how u are doing.
Kate
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I have been on this combination since December.
I upped to 2 doses of gel and alternates between inner thighs and upper arms but was still not getting much relief from night sweats.
I recently changed to applying the gel to the insides of my arms and that has made a big difference. Nights sweats stopped almost immediately.
I am still anxious and cranky but at least I’m not woken by the sweats( just other stuff!)
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I am going to reduce the gel to 1.5 pumps and see if that works. If it does then I’ll try it at 1 pump.
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I have also noticed that since applying to inside of arms that along with the obvious increase of absorption I have increase of hair shedding which I haven’t had up until now.
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Hi Sandi, yes im doing the same although I alternate between arms and inner thighs.
I noticed a difference very quickly, the biggest difference was that I slept so well, I hadn't slept in weeks properly. The flushes stopped within a few days.
Its day 13 today so no pills but I've come on already which I wasn't expecting.
Also I'm wide awake at almost midnight.
Be good to compare with you how u are doing.
Kate
hi kate,
day 11 it actually started working,
only had 3 flushes a day and only one lasted 10 minutes so im much happier in myself and moods are slowly improving and feel much better altogether.
i am sleeping better too, dont have the drowsy feeling in the morning anymore either.
i am only on 1 pump on outer arms.
i am 57 and post menopausal so i take it for the whole month not like you, hope your period isnt too bad, and at least this way you should no when its coming.
i havent even had any side affects from it , so all good here at the moment.
sandie x
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I have been on this combination since December.
I upped to 2 doses of gel and alternates between inner thighs and upper arms but was still not getting much relief from night sweats.
I recently changed to applying the gel to the insides of my arms and that has made a big difference. Nights sweats stopped almost immediately.
I am still anxious and cranky but at least I’m not woken by the sweats( just other stuff!)
hi violetbat
I'm not sure its a good idea putting it on both arms on the inside of them. i was told you shouldn't put it there because it could too easily be passed onto the breast which is not a good idea.
sandie x
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Help with blood test results
I am currently on 6 pumps gel and 10 days Utrogestron used vaginally! I am due to start Sandrena tomorrow as poor absorber.
Ive just had results back:
Oestradiol 253pmol/L slighter higher than when I was on 4 pumps
FSH level 6.8iu/L what does this mean? Seems low looking at other posts
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Hello to all, I'm new to MM and have been reading your many posts that are so helpful and supportive. Am really hoping your HRT journeys, experience and expertise may be able to help me!
Now just turned 58 I can see how the whole HRT business is trial and error and possibly getting the right specialist to understand 'you' as an individual as one size certainly does not fit all.
I started on Evorel Sequi patches for about 3-4 years which seemed to work ok apart from severe migraines ( I only started getting them in Peri never had any before).I have used Sumitriptan which works but I was getting too many per month and was recommended the estrogel/utrogetsan method which I switched to last Jan/Feb 2019 - however was told to use 4 pumps which made me dizzy and totally out of sorts and the V route so bothersome for the Utro. So went back to docs and told to persevere with less estrogel but after another hopeless month was put on Evorel Conti patches.
It made me feel normal again but still not brilliant. Did not really notice any improvement in feeling good or change to libido.
Had a small polyp removed in June and doc did discuss Mirena coil but then decided I should stick with Evorel Conti. I asked about T-gel and managed to get Testogel which I started using a teeny blob of twice a week on thigh around July 2019. I asked if I could top up with Estrogel (as you ca do so off licence and Dr Newson also stated this on her website) it was agreed. So I topped up a half to one pump of Estrogel from Sept 2019.
I then noticed that I was shedding a lot of hair around Autumn/winter 2019 - at hairdresser could see when they brushed it wet was filled with hair - not had this before ( well maybe 30yrs ago told I had PCOS and had hair loss for several months, but it went away without much treatment and after I had my son, now 21, I never had prob again)
Due to the stressful situation regarding supplies (and Covid) I started running out of the patches and had to change back to the Estrogel/Utro 3 x pumps plus 200mg utro v route I had tried unsuccessfully last year. This time it is sort of ok but...
1. Have not had bleed despite 12 agonising days on Utro with vile headaches and PMS, poor sleep, zero libido, hair shedding really bad lucky I have thick hair ( well not now)
2. Now on month two and took 7 days of 200 utro as symptoms so bad last month.
3. Now day 5 after stopping Utro and still no bleed! But PMS symtoms
My GP has prescribed estrodot to try from next month as I am convinced its the estrogel that's causing hair loss - yet how can you work it out? I am waiting for a referral to a meno clinic but in the meantime.. I need your help ladies..
1. What is the cause of the excessive shedding of hair ( diffuse)
2. Why no bleed?
Any thoughts or similar experiences I'd be so grateful
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Hi, I had my appointment at Menopause Clinic on Friday...to cut a long story short, as my symptoms aren't being helped on oestrogel, he has recommended trying Evorel 50mg patches (which apparently is the equivalent dose to 2 pumps of the gel which I'm on now).
I had been taking off my own bat, 5 night a week 100mg utrogestan vaginally...consultant has, after a lot of internet searching, said that it's ok to take it vaginally every other night continuously, or for 10 nights every month).
Does this sound ok to the ladies on here who are very knowledgeable about these things? And how do people find the evorel patches compared to the gel?
Many thanks
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I have been on this combination since December.
I upped to 2 doses of gel and alternates between inner thighs and upper arms but was still not getting much relief from night sweats.
I recently changed to applying the gel to the insides of my arms and that has made a big difference. Nights sweats stopped almost immediately.
I am still anxious and cranky but at least I’m not woken by the sweats( just other stuff!)
hi violetbat
I'm not sure its a good idea putting it on both arms on the inside of them. i was told you shouldn't put it there because it could too easily be passed onto the breast which is not a good idea.
sandie x
Hi Sandie
Yes I thought about that aspect- a lot-, then I figured that I get dressed after I’ve applied it so it doesn’t touch my skin.
It has made such a difference in absorption rates I’m going to stick with it for the moment.
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Hi everyone! My first time posting so I hope I'm doing it right! I just thought I'd ask for some advice regarding breakthrough bleeding. I'm 50, had my last period over a year ago and started on HRT in January (4 pumps of Estrogel now and nightly Utrogestan). The problem I've got is that I've had breakthrough bleeding since starting HRT. The first couple of months it felt like a proper period and now it is pretty light, often just a brown discharge and not heavy enough for a tampon or panty liner. I've booked a scan but speaking to the GP just now over the phone scared me a bit so I guess I'm after some reassurance really! Has anyone else experienced similar?
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Hi Effie - You are on a continuous form of HRT and this is known to cause breakthrough bleeding for the first six months but in some women this does go on for longer so try not to worry. You are right to get it checked out just to see what your womb lining is doing. What did the GP advise?
Taz x :welcomemm:
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Hello ladies,
I've recently started on estrogel (2 pumps) and utrogestan 100mg continuously. I had been on Femoston conti 1mg/5mg for 1 year - this was ok after headaches settled, but I wanted to see if I could sleep better and reduce flushes at the end of the day and also reduce medical risks.
With the gel and utro, I started dreaming more and being more restless at night (which I wasn't expecting, I thought I would sleep better), so on day 19 I changed to the vaginal route every other night to see if that would make a difference. No difference. The sleep issue seems to be getting worse - and I even managed to scream during a dream last night and wake my husband up! Also I feel bloated and like I'm just about to have a period.
I've asked for oestrogen via a patch, so that I get a more continual dose to see if that helps. I'm not sure whether to change back to oral utrogestan, although I guess I shouldn't change 2 things around the same time. And part of me thinks perhaps I should go back to the Femoston as I'm feeling pretty poo at the moment, tired and low in mood. I know I'm sensitive to progestins - dydrogesterone was better than the others, but thought the micronised progesterone would be better! Or perhaps cyclical might be best? Too many options...
Any advice would be welcomed! :)
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Troomp, I am sure its the Utrogestand making you restless, it makes me feel so wired up and jittery and I am only able to use 100mg for 12 days a month, could never tolerate it daily as I feel really bad and bloated on it as well. Perhaps you can use it cyclically if you are able to tolerate a withdrawal bleed?
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Troomp, I am sure its the Utrogestand making you restless, it makes me feel so wired up and jittery and I am only able to use 100mg for 12 days a month, could never tolerate it daily as I feel really bad and bloated on it as well. Perhaps you can use it cyclically if you are able to tolerate a withdrawal bleed?
Thank you Cassie. That is certainly an option I might try. Gonna try a month now with estradot patch and utro vaginally and see whether my body gets used to it. If it's no better I will try the cyclical, but a bit worried about taking 200mg per day.
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I couldnt tolerate 200mg, I take 100mg 12 days per month.
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hi emma ray
with regard to you hair shedding yes it could be the gel , although u mention that in july you were prescribed testogel and sept was it u noticed hair shedding
it could be testosterone or the gel
i’m on the gel and have been shedding hair last 2 years i’ve added utrogestan thinking it was an imbalance but was still shedding then as my testosterone level was low i was advised to add in testosterone that was 6 weeks ago and yesterday i washed my hair and never seen it shed so much and even this morning brushing my brush was full of hair it’s never been this bad personally i’m not feeling that great on this regime i’ve no energy hair shedding loads weight gain emotionally drained aniexty low mood i take tostran for the testosterone one pumps alternate days so am stopping to see it hair reduces my hair works on 6-8 week cycle so any changes take effect 6-8 weeks later but i never shed any hair before starting hrt and of course worried i continue will be bold .
i’m only 41 and had hysterectomy so progesterone isn’t needed but though as mood was so up and down it would help which it has and also help my hair which it hasn’t it isn’t worse but no better but now with testosterone added it’s worse i’m so upset as like you had mega thick hair and now so thin especially sides nape of neck .
i’m just not sure if to stop regime before starting another but then worried if i go back to just taking estrogen alone there will still be hair shedding as still an imbalance x
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Hello all, I’m new to this forum and was just looking for some reassurance.
I started HRT 25 days ago. I’m 48 and not had a period for 17 maths.
I’m on 2 pumps of EstroGel and 100mgs Utrogestan.
I have got sore breasts now, which I haven’t had for months, but apart from that feel no different. Everyday is still like wading through treacle. I know I’ve not given it long yet.
And my EstroGel is the repackaged estrodose, should I make sure I get EstroGel next time?
Thanks for any advice
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Hi. Anyone had experience with hrt patches and hot baths. Do hot baths damage the hormones in the patches?
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Hi Smina
I think a hot bath would be classed as an extreme of high temperature - and the patches are not supposed to be stored above a certain temp so mayb it is inadvisable for a long hot bath? However I expect many women do have baths with patches on. I rarely have a bath these days but when I do I find the patch tends to come a bit unstuck but then I stick it down again. It depends how sensitive you are to potential hormones changes I would say? If in doubt then put a new one on after your bath!
Hurdity x
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Hello everyone :) I'm new to the forum and this is my first post so thank you in advance for any advice you can give me.
I am 42 and perimenopausal. My symptoms in the 18 months before taking HRT had been mainly depression, crippling periods and PMT, loss in confidence, VA, brain fog and loss of libido.
I started seeing DR Sarah Ball from Newson health in April after having no help from my GP and since have been on estrogel, utrogestan and for the last 4 months androfemme.
I am intolerant to progesterone so I now take it vaginally every 3 months and have to get regular scans to monitor my uterus.
Almost all my symptoms had cleared up and I was feeling really good until about a month ago I started feeling very fatigued with increasing headachey brain fog and an almost inability to do any exercise with a short gentle dog walk leaving me exhausted.
Last week I had blood tests including iron, thyroid and my hormones I was half expecting to be told my estrogen levels were way too high to reduce my estrogel... I was talking 3 1/2 pumps.
However everything came back as normal except my estrogen is too low and testosterone a little low and have been asked to increase the dosage of estrogel gradually to 5 pumps and I'm a bit scared.
Sorry for the ramble. My question really is if anyone else had a similar experience where HRT seemed to be helping a lot then started to feel worse??
Thank you x
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Many people find they need to increase oestrogen as their overies produce less. Did you get a level for oestrogen when you felt OK to compare it? 5 pumps is quite a lot but maybe you don't absorb it well. Did any of you other tests come back within range but close to the bottom? Some people find they actually need a slightly higher level to feel well.
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Hello I am new to this forum and I find all the messages a bit overwhelming to be honest! I have just turned 51 and for quite a few months now I have had aches and pains across my chest, top of shoulders, back CONSTANTLY. And more recently tender breasts. I still have my period. I have spoken to my GP twice over the last few months and he says that its 'the change'. He gave me anti-inflamatories but they did not help. I am not on HRT and don't really want to. I just want to know if these symptoms are very common whilst going through the change so I can stop worrying so much and think it may be something else. I have had a blood test end of August and everything OK, I had a mammogram also end of August , all OK. I even had an ECG, all OK. I am so fed up or not feeling like I used and feeling achey all of the time. I don't have hot flushes and any of the very common menopausal symptoms. I welcome any advice and help. In these current times, I so miss a face to face appt with GP. Thank you
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You might find your symptoms go when you're menopausal or they might continue for years, there's just no way of knowing. And although it's likely your aches are from lack of oestrogen there are other causes too. The only way to know for certain is to get your oestrogen levels up and see if they go.
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I’m taking one pump oestrogel x2 a day on upper arms and utrogestan x1 a day continuously with no breaks.
I feel completely shattered- not sure if it’s that? Any suggestions?
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Would it better to take it differently rather than every day?
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I would try it on a cycle to see what happens. If you only feel like this on the utro phase you might try a different progestin. If you don't have a strong cycle of your own you could use a long cycle. I get lethargic on utro too.
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I’m going to speak to my GP to see what she says. I’ve not had a bleed now for a good few months (around 6) but have felt like I was going to start a few times. I’ve had a few night sweats and achey but on the whole not too bad. I just feel a bit zonked :'(
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Hello,
I recently started HRT in March, and had been having problems with morning fatigue, that lifted during the day. I have three pumps of Esterogel and one utrogestan at night. I actually thought I had ME, since I have other unexplained symptoms too.
After reading a post here I realised it was the utrogestan. I am now taking it vaginally, the problem is knowing which dosage to use.
I explained everything to my GP, and she has been great. She really values this forum, and says it’s one of the best around.
The gynaecologist she’s been talking too, has OKed the vaginal utrogestan, but recommends every night. After two weeks of every night I had a bleed, checked out by an ultrasound and everything is fine, and am thinking it should be taken every other night. My GP has asked me to forward any evidence backed research or papers that recommend dosage. Is there any available? I have been going through this thread but so far haven’t found anything....
I realise the newson menopause website recommends this dosage.
Any help with this will be greatly appreciated, and it’s great having a GP prepared to listen too.
Thanks, Dawn
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Anyone know of any research/papers about the dosage of utrogestan virginaly ? D xx
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Hello
I've just picked up my first prescription, which is oestrogel pump & utrogestan 100 (to be used vaginally, for the last 2 weeks of my cycle).
My cycle is generally a bit longer than 28 days, and can be irregular anyway, and 'Flo' (app) says I'm on day 33, with my period due in 2 days. Thinking I will start with 1 tablet tonight, followed by the pump in the morning, and see what happens?
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I wouldn't take the utrogeston yet, it's best when the hrt cycle in step with your own. I don't think it'll make any difference if you start the oestrogel now. If you start utro 14 days before your bleed is due your cycle will stay in step. I have a natural 6 week slightly variable cycle, using a 28 day hrt cycle resulted in bleeds at any time, sometimes twice in a month. I can tell when I ovulate so start utro a couple of days after that.
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I wouldn't take the utrogeston yet, it's best when the hrt cycle in step with your own. I don't think it'll make any difference if you start the oestrogel now. If you start utro 14 days before your bleed is due your cycle will stay in step. I have a natural 6 week slightly variable cycle, using a 28 day hrt cycle resulted in bleeds at any time, sometimes twice in a month. I can tell when I ovulate so start utro a couple of days after that.
thank you
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Anyone know of any research/papers about the dosage of utrogestan virginaly ? D xx
Hi Dawn, just wondered if you found anything? I asked my GP about this, he looked into it and got back to me saying he is happy for me to use it this way, every other night. He also gave me the option to use either the Utrogestan 100mg that I already had or to try Lutigest which is a vaginal pessary, (licensed for IVF treatment), same progesterone dose but less leakage.
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Hi again.
would you consider 2 pumps gel, then 1 tablet vaginally in the latter half of my cycle (such as it is) to be a good ratio? thanks x
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Hi everyone ,
Just wondered if anyone was having problems getting their oestrogel prescription . I went this morning to collect from the chemist and they say they can’t guarantee they can obtain it as theirs a problem with supply ?
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I got my gel last week, the chemist didn't mention any difficulty.
Sarajane the manufacturer's say 12 days x 200mg utrogeston (so 2 of your 100mg?), if you use less it should be done with medical supervision. Unless you have side effects it might be better to stick to 200mg.
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thanks Sheila - as I'm using it vaginally I thought the dose was lower. I'll check with the GP
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Hi
I've been struggling with the utrogestan part of hrt - makes me feel awful. I had Tel appt with docs and she adviced me that as I am using 1 pump and a bit of gel.each day along with my age (52) I could take 100 ustg everyday instead of the 200. As this may ease the symptoms. Does this sound right? Also does.that mean no gaps in taking.
Just want to be clear !
Thanks ladies
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If you use utrogeston every day it's 100mg anyway, the 200mg is if you use it cyclically (12 days per month). As conti it should be 25 days a month so you can bleed if you need to but I think many people take it every day. If you feel bad on utro the other option is to use a long cycle if you don't have a strong cycle of your own so you more utro free days. Again it's off licence so should be done with medical supervision. Would be worth trying vaginally if you don't already as there can be fewer side effects.
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Anyone know of any research/papers about the dosage of utrogestan virginaly ? D xx
Hi Dawn20 - I dont know about virginally!!! (I love some of the autocorrect errors!!) ;D
However vaginal use of utrogestan - yes there are lots of papers. I made a thread of them which I bump every now and again so I will do so for you. I haven't updated it recenty with any later studies but the research is still valid.
The thread will appear at the top of this board but will soon drop down again if you don't see it.
There is this one about utrogestan being manufactured for oral and vaginal use: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,45782.msg738193.html#msg738193
and this is the main one with all the studies:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43633.msg696198.html#msg696198
Hope this helps and do ask any questions if you need to :)
Hurdity x
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Anyone know of any research/papers about the dosage of utrogestan virginaly ? D xx
Hi Dawn, just wondered if you found anything? I asked my GP about this, he looked into it and got back to me saying he is happy for me to use it this way, every other night. He also gave me the option to use either the Utrogestan 100mg that I already had or to try Lutigest which is a vaginal pessary, (licensed for IVF treatment), same progesterone dose but less leakage.
befuddled - see the bumped thread...
Hurdity x
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Thanks for bumping this, Hurdity - really useful information.
Just a couple of other questions. The studies seem to be talking about low or meduim doses of estrogen. I'm on Estradot 50, is this low or medium? What dose is a high dose? Also, when i read that i should be having regular scans, how often is regular, and how long into hrt should that start?
This bit I've read a few times but not sure if i properly understand it -
The data collected from the experiment revealed that the serum progesterone levels achieved by oral administration (5.06 +/- 2.95 ng/ml) differed significantly (p < 0.001) from those achieved by vaginal administration (8.26 +/- 4.09 ng/ml). The data also revealed that the serum progesterone levels of the oral administration group (4.23 +/- 2.68 ng/ml) did not differ significantly (p = 0.925) from the other group (4.15 +/- 3.40 ng/ml) when the serum estrogen level was less than 30 pg/ml. On the contrary, when the serum estrogen level was at least 30 pg/ml, there was a significant (p < 0.005) difference in the serum progesterone levels between these two groups (6.32 +/- 2.99 ng/ml for the oral route and 9.76 +/- 3.23 ng/ml for the vaginal route).
It seems to be saying that if you are post meno, with low levels of estrogen in the blood, the progesterone levels in the blood from oral and vaginal use don't differ much? - But absorption is higher with vaginal use, isn't it? I must be reading it wrong.
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Hi befuddled
To answer your questions:
- 50 mcg oestrogen patch is regarded on average as medium dose - but absorption varies between different women.
- When does it mention about having regular scans? These are advisable for anyone who is using an off-licence regime and doesn't yet know how their uterus lining behaves under different progestogen regimes. Unfortunately the are only available on NHS under certain circumstances - notably abnormal bleeding.
- Your quote of the scientific paper. We need to unpick that a bit. The figures you quoted are referring to systemic concentration of progesterone from oral vs vaginal use. However when the general words "Absorption is higher with vaginal use" are used to signify that protection of the uterus lining is better when used vaginally, this is referring to absorption directly to the uterus lining. So with vaginal application you avoid the "liver first pass effect" and the effect of digestion, because the progesterone is absorbed directly into the cells of the uterus lining - called I think the "uterus first pass effect" - ie it gets there before it is absorbed into the bloodstream.
In terms of uterine protection - research generally shows from limited studies so far- that this is the case: vaginal application of progesterone in general provides better protection of the uterus lining.
This is different from systemic absorption - which is quoted as serum concentration. It is the systemic absosption which generally accounts for the side effects that women experience from progesterone elsewhere in the body.
Some of the side effects ( eg the sedative effect of progesterone) arise from progesterone itself - so if systemic absoprtion from vaginal use is greater (in women with higher oestrogen concentrations), you might expect - on averge - the sedative effect to be slightly greater ( in sensitive women maybe?).
However the metabolic by-products from oral intake are far greater and at higher concentrations than with vaginal use and it is some of these metabolic by-products which also give rise to significant adverse side-effects in some women - hence the manufacturer's giving of the vaginal route as an alternative if side effects are experienced from oral use.
I must say I had not noticed (or remembered - I presume I must have read it once!) that difference in systemic absorption was minimal when women had low oestrogen concentrations - eg when post-menopausal. In practice though, most women would not be taking progesterone without oestrogen would they, if post-menopausal, so mostly oestrogen concentrations would be higher than this? I'm not sure therefore of the significance of that particular finding.
Does that help explain?
Hurdity x
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Thanks, yes, that makes more sense now.
It's interesting that the sedative effect may be higher with vaginal use, i'd assumed it would have been lower like the other side effects. I wonder how many others are thinking the same, i'm sure i've read some posts from users who were thinking of changing to vaginal use because they were struggling with the sedative effect from oral.
That bit about the scans, i could have sworn there were a couple of other sentences in that paragraph when i wrote it! I don't know what i did with them. What i meant to ask was this.
i had spoken to my gp re vaginal use and he said to take it on alternate days, no mention of scans, but as you have said " These are advisable for anyone who is using an off-licence regime and doesn't yet know how their uterus lining behaves under different progestogen regimes." I've only been using it this way for one cycle so far, so am reluctant to change things again and i'm due to speak to gp for review at the end of january, but is it safe to stick with alternate days until then? How soon after starting this regime would a scan usually be done? How quickly could the lining build up and cause problems?
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Hi there,
New to all of this and have a question about timing, which I'd be grateful for some advice on. Due to terrible peri-meno symptoms my doctor has advised Estrogel/Utrogestan. I was planning on starting estrogel on day one of my period (still having periods, sometime every month but often every 15 days). My plan is this:
Start estrogel, one pump per day, on day one of period
Start Utrogestan, 100mg to start with, from day 15 until day 28
My questions are:
1. What happens if you get a period on say day 15 - do you still proceed with the Utro? Doesn't this mess things up?
2. What happens when you stop Utro on day 28, do you geta bleed then?
3. Regardless of 1 and 2, do you take Estrogel every day?
4. Is it correct to start Estrogel on day one of my period?
5. Are there benefits to taking Utro every day, 100mg, rather than on days 15-28?
Sorry for all the questions but I'm confused and my doctor said to just start taking it! Of course as soon as I put down the phone I then had loads of questions and this group seems so much more knowledgeable than my doc, frankly, as so many of you have lived through this.
Thanks a million for reading.
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Many Thanks Hurdity! I’ll have a read of these papers and let my GP know.
I’m using utrogestan vaginally every night with no problems at the moment.
Thanks again, Dawn xx
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Hi there,
New to all of this and have a question about timing, which I'd be grateful for some advice on. Due to terrible peri-meno symptoms my doctor has advised Estrogel/Utrogestan. I was planning on starting estrogel on day one of my period (still having periods, sometime every month but often every 15 days). My plan is this:
Start estrogel, one pump per day, on day one of period
Start Utrogestan, 100mg to start with, from day 15 until day 28
My questions are:
1. What happens if you get a period on say day 15 - do you still proceed with the Utro? Doesn't this mess things up?
2. What happens when you stop Utro on day 28, do you geta bleed then?
3. Regardless of 1 and 2, do you take Estrogel every day?
4. Is it correct to start Estrogel on day one of my period?
5. Are there benefits to taking Utro every day, 100mg, rather than on days 15-28?
Sorry for all the questions but I'm confused and my doctor said to just start taking it! Of course as soon as I put down the phone I then had loads of questions and this group seems so much more knowledgeable than my doc, frankly, as so many of you have lived through this.
Thanks a million for reading.
Hi brynton, sorry i can't be of any help, i'm quite new to all this myself, but just thought i'd bump it for you, maybe someone else can help.
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You take oestrogel every day. Usual to start on day 1 but probably doesn't matter if you start before. Normally in peri you use a sequi regime, as your gp suggests, so it works with your own body. You normally bleed a couple of days after stopping utro though what your body is doing can put a spanner in the works. The timing of utro is more important so the hrt cycle stays in step with your own. I can tell when I ovulate so now I take it after that, for me sticking to a 28 day cycle didn't work. The manufacturer's dose is 12 days x 200mg, any variation should be done under medical supervision. Less need to worry if you're on low dose oestrogen (1 pump is low dose). If I bled early I tended to think my body had produced enough progesterone of it's own so I stopped utro and started the cycle again. I'm not sure this is recommended though, some people carry on with the 12 days. As long as you have a proper bleed I wouldn't worry too much. Using a conti regime can work well if you're late peri or meno. In early peri you're likely to get break through bleeding.
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Thank you so much, Sheila, that's a great help.
And also to @befufddled for the bump.
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I am a bit like you @brynton and was put on low dose of one pump of Estrogel and one 100mg of progesterone as peri-menopausal and still having regular periods. I was advised to start the gel on day one and the tablets from day 15 to 26. To begin with I started my period after taking the tablets as expected then as the months went on my own cycle broke through and I was starting my period mid way through taking the tablets. I read on an earlier thread that some people take their tablets the same days every month I.e. 15th to the 26th of the actual month then you don’t get so confused. I do this now as my period comes when it wants to but at least I’m still taking the recommended (low) dose. Not sure if this is right or not but helps me remember! I’m due my first review next month so see where I go from there. You’ll certainly notice a difference with an ease of your symptoms though, the Estrogel works wonders for me ;)
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I am a bit like you @brynton and was put on low dose of one pump of Estrogel and one 100mg of progesterone as peri-menopausal and still having regular periods. I was advised to start the gel on day one and the tablets from day 15 to 26. To begin with I started my period after taking the tablets as expected then as the months went on my own cycle broke through and I was starting my period mid way through taking the tablets. I read on an earlier thread that some people take their tablets the same days every month I.e. 15th to the 26th of the actual month then you don’t get so confused. I do this now as my period comes when it wants to but at least I’m still taking the recommended (low) dose. Not sure if this is right or not but helps me remember! I’m due my first review next month so see where I go from there. You’ll certainly notice a difference with an ease of your symptoms though, the Estrogel works wonders for me ;)
This happening to me. I’ve been on this regime for a year now. Was still have periods when I started but they were not arriving every month.
For months I would just have a bed a couple of days after stopping the utrogestan.
These last 2 months my period have been annoying.
Last month I started bleeding just as I was about to start the tabs, so only 2.5 weeks after my last period. This month I have started bleeding 7 days into the utrogestan- 20 days after my last period.
Clearly my own cycle is breaking through. Pre HRT my periods were coming roughly 21 days apart. So the pattern is roughly normal for me.
I am hoping they will stop again soon.
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Hi, my gp has suggested I try utrogestan /Estrogel for possible menopausal symptoms. I can’t take tablets so will be using the Utrogestan vaginally. Not massively keen on that idea. I have severe tinnitus and when I researched Utrogestan it wasn’t listed as a side effect. However on this thread someone said it gave them tinnitus so this has put me off using it. Is that a common side effect?
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No. Any common side effects have to be listed. Most women are perfectly OK on it, it's most likely you will be too.
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Ezzie the 200mg gave me tinnitus but have been on the 100mg for years with no problems at all.
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Thanks for the replies. My gp has suggested I start on the 100mg. I hate taking meds and try and avoid at all costs but really need to give this a try. Does anyone use vaginal moisturisers? Are they any good?
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Re vaginal moisturisers, yes, they can be very good. It depends what you use and why. A bit more detail on a separate thread would help us answer this.
JP x
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Ok thanks will do.
Cassie, can I just ask when you took the 200mg and got the tinnitus did it go away when you stopped taking it? How soon did it start? Sorry to ask all these questions it’s just a big worry for me. Thanks
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Yes it went away when I stopped them, cant remember but was a couple of days into using them, they were just way too heavy for my system and the tinnitus was one of the first things I noticed.
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I’m new to this forum and very new to HRT and really looking for some help and advice!
I’m 47, and started HRT on 2 January to address peri-menopausal symptoms - including increasing mood swings, feeling unable to cope with anything, mild hot flashes, periods of exhaustion.
Periods have been irregular for the last years or so, with cycles varying between 15 to 50 days. The last cycle was 50 days. Although each period of menstruation would last no more than 5 days with about 2/3 days heavy bleeding.
The docs prescribed me Estradiol 2 pumps daily and Utrogestan 100mg - 2 tablets on days 15 - 26.
My period began (or so I thought) on 2nd January. I then commenced the Estradiol as I assumed this was day 1 of the cycle - however I didn’t begin to bleed properly and had 9 days of spotting, but continued with the Estradiol. My full period then finally started on 11 January and I have been bleeding heavily ever since, for 3 weeks now with no sign of stopping.
I took 11 January as day 1 of this cycle and began the Utrogestan on 24 January, so have a few more days left of taking it.
I’m also booked in for a Mirena coil to be fitted mid February so the Utrogestan tablets are effectively a stop gap until then.
I’ve called the GP who suggested the heavy bleeding is not unusual when starting HRT and also suggested I could stop both the Estradiol and Utrogestan until the coil fitting to stop the bleeding. But I’m worried this could cause some kind of hormonal crash?! I have felt better in myself since starting but cannot cope with continuous heavy bleeding.
If anyone has any knowledge/experience or advice please let me know. I’m going to try and speak to a GP who has more experience in women’s health matters but trying to speak to the right Doctor with everything going on with this pandemic is proving to be challenging to say the least. Thank you in advance! x
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It's only a couple of weeks til mid Feb so whatever you do won't do you any harm. If it was me I'd stop the utro and continue with oestradiol. You could reduce to one pump if you're worried about it but I don't think it's necessary. Bleeding can be unpredictable when the hrt cycle gets out of step with your own.
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Thank you! I also managed to speak to a doc who was also quite reassuring and said even if I come off both for a couple of weeks there's unlikely to be any immediate negative consequences... thanks for commenting, much appreciated :) x
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Hello!
I've been peri menopausal for a couple of years and started on Femoston 1/10 and then switched up to Femoston 2/10 about 18 months ago. I am 48.
My symptoms started to creep back in recently and so GP has prescribed a new regime for me to try.
Can I run it past you please and check I have got it right in my own mind?
So, I was on Femoston 2/10 which is 2mg Oestradiol and then the same 2mg plus 10mg dydrogestrone for 14 days. I would have a bleed each month.
GP has now prescribed 2 - 4 pumps of Estrogel (1 pump contains 0.75mg estradiol) - I am wondering whether to start on 2 or 3 pumps? I am thinking I will apply it to mid innner thigh in the morning?
I then have Utrogestan 100 oral capsules (containing 100mg progesterone) - take 2 (200mg) orally at bedtime on days 15 - 26.
Does this sound about right?
Any advice on whether to start with 2 or 3 pumps?
Many thanks in advance,
Ali x
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Yes, that sounds right. As you need to increase that would equate to 3 pumps but different types can be absorbed differently. I'd be inclined to start at 2 and see how you are for a couple of weeks then increase if you need to (or more quickly if you feel worse).
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Thank you sheila99....
Yes it was the absorption rate that got me wondering re 2 0r 3 pumps....
I'll start with 2 and see how i go...
Thanks again.
Ali x
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Hello was wondering if anyone could give me some advice as to if I should increase my oestrogel I've only been on 5 days but hot flushes have got more intence especially at night and creepy skin head tingling during day I was on tablets for years but due to shortage have been unable to get them since November and they were fantastic for me I was put on kliofem but I got rotten sore breasts and palpations I stopped cold turkey all hrt and have been so very ill vertigo for nine weeks ringing ears tingling and numbness anxiety couldn't take anymore so asked my GP for the gel and tablet he not good with hrt he prescribed it at first with 200 mg utrogesten I had to ring back and say I've been post Meno approx 5 years and would need 100mg taken daily he hasn't even put how many pumps of gel I should be useing so I have started on two and one tablet vaginal every night and as I say my hot flashes are way more intence and more frequent as the day wears on I get the creeping feeling in my skin like I've suddenly got a cold chill and my veins stand out and the funny head thing I was on 2mg +1 mg elesete duet conti for years and years and was great I really want this to work and I'm not sure if it's to much gel or not enough how do you know I don't want to over do it and make myself feel worse than I already do would anyone have any advice I don't want to stop and go down the dark road again if I could have my tablet back I would in a shot but not available and I don't think my doctor would let me go back on them I have tried evorol conti also they started my vertigo off but thinking about it I don't think they were the right strength compared to the tablet oh I'm in such a middle I just want to feel better should I up the gel or decrease it my doc not great and due to virus it's Tel call only sorry for long post regards Julie x anyone got any help please
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Hi, I am sorry you are feeling so anxious about this but I do understand how you feel. All I can say is generally if you still have hot flushes its a sign you need more oestrogel. Having said that you have only been on it five days. Can you bear to wait another few days just in case it suddenly starts working? If not I would suggest you could gradually increase your dose slowly slowly and each time give it a fortnight or so to see if hot flushes lessen.
Just a thought, are you applying the gel to clean skin? My skin is quite oily and if I don't wash first, the gel doesn't seem to absorb properly.
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Cassie, you mention you have been on the 100mg for years with no problems at all. Do you mind if I ask if that is continuous daily and do you take orally or vaginally?
What oestrogen do you use and how much? Sorry for the questions! Having tried something else recently, I am now returning to Estradot patch and deciding on which method to take the Utrogestan! Thanks!
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Hi I take 100mg of UTrogestan every other month, vaginally. Only use half a pump of oestrogel.
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Hello,
I am due to start this regime today but very unsure and nervous about it so hoping somebody can advise/reassure me before I start.
I have been having peri symptoms for a few years now that I am finding hard to manage so eventually have a phone consultation with a menopause doctor last month. She has px 1 pump of gel for every day and utrogestan tablets days 15-26 (I think?). My periods have been every 23 days ish for the last year but this one is just over four weeks from last one.
However my main problem I have trouble controlling is health anxiety so it’s made me really anxious about starting this regime due to side effects!
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The vast majority feel the benefits with no adverse side effects. The ones who are OK carry on with their lives, the ones who aren't post on here! Anxiety and insomnia were my worst symptoms, it took 3 months on HRT but they have gone. If your anxiety came with meno it will probably go with hrt. I hope it goes well.
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Hello!
I've been peri menopausal for a couple of years and started on Femoston 1/10 and then switched up to Femoston 2/10 about 18 months ago. I am 48.
My symptoms started to creep back in recently and so GP has prescribed a new regime for me to try.
Can I run it past you please and check I have got it right in my own mind?
So, I was on Femoston 2/10 which is 2mg Oestradiol and then the same 2mg plus 10mg dydrogestrone for 14 days. I would have a bleed each month.
GP has now prescribed 2 - 4 pumps of Estrogel (1 pump contains 0.75mg estradiol) - I am wondering whether to start on 2 or 3 pumps? I am thinking I will apply it to mid innner thigh in the morning?
I then have Utrogestan 100 oral capsules (containing 100mg progesterone) - take 2 (200mg) orally at bedtime on days 15 - 26.
Does this sound about right?
Any advice on whether to start with 2 or 3 pumps?
Many thanks in advance,
Ali x
Hello again ladies,
So i have only been on the new regime for one week but my physical anxiety symptoms have been worse this week, managable but worse.... I know it has only been a week but am wondering if I should increase to 3 pumps of gel? I am only asking incase I get an overwheliming response to up the dose straight away, if not I guess I will hang on and give everything time to settle?
I also have a question! At the moment I don't feel the need to shower every single day and sometimes miss a day, am I ok to apply the gel again in the same place the next day having not had a shower in between?
Also due to lockdown etc I find myself having showers at different times of the day eg yesterday I had my shower around 5pm, is this a problem if I applied the gel in the morning?
At the moment I apply one pump to each thigh, it's quite a lot of gel to rub in although it does absorb in nicely. If I need to increase I guess I would have to put the extra gel on my shoulders?
Ali x
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Hello!
I've been peri menopausal for a couple of years and started on Femoston 1/10 and then switched up to Femoston 2/10 about 18 months ago. I am 48.
My symptoms started to creep back in recently and so GP has prescribed a new regime for me to try.
Can I run it past you please and check I have got it right in my own mind?
So, I was on Femoston 2/10 which is 2mg Oestradiol and then the same 2mg plus 10mg dydrogestrone for 14 days. I would have a bleed each month.
GP has now prescribed 2 - 4 pumps of Estrogel (1 pump contains 0.75mg estradiol) - I am wondering whether to start on 2 or 3 pumps? I am thinking I will apply it to mid innner thigh in the morning?
I then have Utrogestan 100 oral capsules (containing 100mg progesterone) - take 2 (200mg) orally at bedtime on days 15 - 26.
Does this sound about right?
Any advice on whether to start with 2 or 3 pumps?
Many thanks in advance,
Ali x
Hello again ladies,
So i have only been on the new regime for one week but my physical anxiety symptoms have been worse this week, managable but worse.... I know it has only been a week but am wondering if I should increase to 3 pumps of gel? I am only asking incase I get an overwheliming response to up the dose straight away, if not I guess I will hang on and give everything time to settle?
I also have a question! At the moment I don't feel the need to shower every single day and sometimes miss a day, am I ok to apply the gel again in the same place the next day having not had a shower in between?
Also due to lockdown etc I find myself having showers at different times of the day eg yesterday I had my shower around 5pm, is this a problem if I applied the gel in the morning?
At the moment I apply one pump to each thigh, it's quite a lot of gel to rub in although it does absorb in nicely. If I need to increase I guess I would have to put the extra gel on my shoulders?
Ali x
Hi Ali - it seems we have the same symptoms re: physical anxiety symptoms. I started on 2 pumps but felt it wasn’t enough because some days were worse than others. At 6 weeks I asked the specialist what she thought about an increase and she said no - I needed to ride it through and wait for 3 months. At 7 weeks I was crawling the walls and went against it and applied another pump for a few days but found that ramped up my nausea and headache so reduced back down to 2. I then started wondering have I got too much (anxiety kicking in) so reduced to 1. It’s a minefield. I have 5 weeks to go and have gone back to 2 pumps. With regards to your shower routine I shower every morning so easy to just apply then. When I was applying the 3rd pump in the evening I just did a quick rinse of my thigh - not always convenient because in the real world we would be at work but until I figure out how many pumps I need it’s the best way that works for me at the moment.
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[/quote]
Hi Ali - it seems we have the same symptoms re: physical anxiety symptoms. I started on 2 pumps but felt it wasn’t enough because some days were worse than others. At 6 weeks I asked the specialist what she thought about an increase and she said no - I needed to ride it through and wait for 3 months. At 7 weeks I was crawling the walls and went against it and applied another pump for a few days but found that ramped up my nausea and headache so reduced back down to 2. I then started wondering have I got too much (anxiety kicking in) so reduced to 1. It’s a minefield. I have 5 weeks to go and have gone back to 2 pumps. With regards to your shower routine I shower every morning so easy to just apply then. When I was applying the 3rd pump in the evening I just did a quick rinse of my thigh - not always convenient because in the real world we would be at work but until I figure out how many pumps I need it’s the best way that works for me at the moment.
[/quote]
Hi sed,
Thanks for your reply... it's so tricky isnt it... I guess we both need to ride it out and see how we go. I guess I was just hoping for 20 replies, all saying, 'yes 3 pumps and you'll feel on top of the world', if only it were that easy ;D
You take care and fingers crossed for both of us.
Ali x
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Hi I have been using the utrogestan/Oestrogel for over 6 months after using Evorel patches previously for 18 months.I am worried as for the first 3 months of using 2 pumps of Oestrogel and taking the utrogestan tablets from days 15 to 26 that for the last 3 months have had no bleed at all. Does this mean that I can't be absorbing the the hrt properly has anyone else experienced no bleed after taking the progesterone innthus way. Please help if you can.
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The vast majority feel the benefits with no adverse side effects. The ones who are OK carry on with their lives, the ones who aren't post on here! Anxiety and insomnia were my worst symptoms, it took 3 months on HRT but they have gone. If your anxiety came with meno it will probably go with hrt. I hope it goes well.
Thank you, your posts are very reassuring. However I have one more question, can I start the gel now on day 3 of my period, as I missed starting over the weekend, or do I need to wait until day one of my next cycle?
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Hello, my first post, what an amazing resource this is ...Thankyou it has helped me a lot on my meno journey.
I am just coming to the end of my 3 month trial with femostan 2/10, this is the first HRT I was put onto by my GP.When I went for my appointment I explained I was 6 weeks away from being a year without periods, and in the year before that had 2 periods.
The 2 bleeds I have had on femostan have been agony, 3 days of terrible pain leaving me bedridden taking up to 8 nurofen in 24 hours, and a bleed of 6 days, I simply can’t do this again !
Having now done research I am keen to go onto the urtrogaston / estrogel regime as this seems the most natural route.
My question is can I take the 100mg of urtrogaston every day to avoid a bleed altogether ? As I said above , I have been nearly a year without periods before I started HRT and I really don’t want to go back to having them again ,
What are your thoughts ? Experiences ?
Emma
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Yes but if you're not meno you might get breakthrough bleeding. Might be best to have the 100mg with the 3 day break so you can bleed if there's been a build up. If you want to be pretty certain you'll be bleed free you might consider a mirena.
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Just a couple of questions-
I started with the gel 2 weeks ago and will start tablets tonight.
I have been using the gel after my shower which during lockdown/covid is about 6pm but progesterone leaflet says to take them at bedtime along with the gel. Is that right and do I need to wash my arms again before applying the gel?
Also, do I need to alternate between arms and thighs regularly or just sporadically?
Thanks for your help
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No need to wash again... unless you've been mud wrestling... :). I don't think it makes any difference if you don't take it the same time as utro. Some people use it in the morning, I use 2 pumps night and morning on thighs. I have found no difference in uptake between arms and thighs but some people do. If you do it might be best to stick to one site so you always get the same amount.
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Thank you 😊
Certainly no mud wrestling going on this evening!
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Hi,
Just a little advice please...
I've stuck with the new regime for one month (I have switched from taking Femoston 2/10) - 2 pumps of gel in the morning and then the tablets for 12 nights.
I had a tiny bit of 'old' spotting for a couple of days but no proper period. A lot of my meno symptoms have worsened over the month. For the first two weeks of this regime my eyes were painfully dry. This passed but other symptoms have gradually kicked in, hot flushes, disturbed sleep, anxious chest, palpatations, low mood, the list goes on.
I presume at the start of month two, I would be able to give 3 pumps a try? Or should I persevere with the two for longer?
If I increase to 3 should I apply in the morning or do 2 in the morning and 1 at night?
Thanks in advance,
Ali x
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Flushes usually go within a couple of weeks so I'd say you should increase the dose. I split my dose (4 pumps) but it's more for convenience, I don't think there's any official guidance. In theory you should flatten the spikes this way but I don't notice a difference.
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Flushes usually go within a couple of weeks so I'd say you should increase the dose. I split my dose (4 pumps) but it's more for convenience, I don't think there's any official guidance. In theory you should flatten the spikes this way but I don't notice a difference.
Thanks so much.
Yes it would be more convenient for me to split the dose as at the moment I have to stand around undresssed whilst I wait for the gel to dry, at least if I split the dose I can get half dressed ;)
Anyway, I appreciate your reply and do feel the right thing is to try the 3 pumps so I am glad you agree!!!! ;)
Ali x
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I started using Oestrogel 6 weeks ago. For 4 of those weeks I've had flu-like symptoms (negative covid) Could it be a side effect of the HRT? Thanks.
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Bumped !
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Hi everyone....I am new to this forum and just after some advice/comments/feedback please....
I am 54...been period free for over a year & have recently started HRT. I started on estrogel (2 pumps a day) & utrogestan. My first prescription was to take the utrogestan for 12 days out of 28 but that caused a bleed which I don't want/need so I had my dosage changed to every day for a period free regime. The hot flushes & anxiety I was experiencing have really improved...but I seem to have developed some fluid retention around my ankles...& the fingers especially on my right hand are quite red/puffy but not sore...and when I exercise they look quite angry as if the circulation has gone into overdrive! I presume these are side effects...but of which hormone?...and can I expect them to settle down or is it something I just have to put up with? I am into my fourth month of treatment.
I sometimes feel I have swapped one set of issues for another...only now I'm paying for the privilege! Thank you x
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It's usually progesterone that causes the problems. You could try taking utrogeston vaginally as there are fewer side effects this way. Alternatively go back to a sequi regime for a couple of months and see if you're different when only use gel. If it's the utrogeston I would try something different. There's also the possibility it's caused by some other problem.
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Are you using utrogeston continuously or on a cycle? If not on a cycle I would do so (200mg x 12 days). My worst symptoms were anxiety and insomnia, it took about a month before I saw any improvement but it didn't get worse (3 months before it went). It may be utro doesn't agree with you.
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Hi all. Can anyone tell me if anxiety and depression got worse once starting estrogel and utrogestan. Early days 11 days in but it's feeling like some has put fuel on fire with mental symptoms. Wondering whether to persevere. How long before it kicks in from your own experiences?
Hi Kelly,
I am new to this regime (estrogel and 200mg utrogestan 12 days out of 28), just coming to the end of month 2. I have to say that month one was a bit rough with hot flushes creeping back in and my anxiety also worsened. I increased to 3 pumps of gel for month 2 and touch wood, feel much better generally and my anxiety is pretty much back down to a very low level.
Hope this helps and good luck!
Ali x
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No problem!
Just to add that for the first month I was only using 2 pumps of gel, its the third pump plus the passage of time I guess and I do really feel much brighter this month...
(I was on Femoston 2/10 previously).
Take care,
Ali x
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Hi, I have seen a few comments on here about taking Utrogestan vaginally. Is this with the capsules or is it a different prescription?
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Thank you. Will speak with my GP.
Another question, is it better to have continuous HRT or to have a bleed?
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Hello all, I'm new to HRT and to this forum. Would be great to hear about others' experiences of Utrogestan. I'm 55 and am on continuous HRT (started 6/7 weeks ago, so not long) by a private doctor after several years of very low mood and terrible (just awful) sleep. I'm on 2/3 doses of Oestrogel and 100 mg of Utrogestan daily (I take the latter at night). Within a few days of taking the Oestrogel, I noticed an uplift in my mood, felt much happier than I had been in ages. That was on one dose. But within a week or so, this plateaued so I upped it to 2 (the past few days, I went up to 3). However, I think that the Utrogestan is making me bloated and contributing to the return of low mood (hence upping the Oestrogel to 3). I need the Utrogestan to help with sleep and to protect my uterus but, last night, decided not to take it. I slept badly (which may mean that oestrogen levels are still lowish in my system (?)) but feel lighter/happier today. I'm not seeing my doc till late May and wondered if I could take Utrogestan vaginally until I see her. Is it safe to take Utrogestan like this? Do I just insert the tab into my vagina? Would really appreciate hearing from others experiencing the same. I feel like I'm floundering at the moment and feel upset that the initial uplift in mood only lasted a short time. My sleep is still poor and I feel bloated and miserable!
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There are fewer side effects if you use it vaginally. It's the same capsule, just push it up as far as you can immediately before you go to bed. The other option would be to it cyclically on a long cycle (200mg x 12 days), you'll have a bleed but you may get more 'good' time this way. It was oestrogen that cured my insomnia and anxiety but it did take 3 months.
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Thanks, Sheila. I appreciate your advice. I might try this.
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Hi all,
It's my first time using Ultrogestan, but there is a history of clots DVT, etc) in my family. I did tell the GP, but they still prescribed me this medication. Wondering whether before taking it might be a good idea to find out my risk of clots first? Or are there safer alternatives? Mirena IUS?
Hoping someone can alleviate my confusion.
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Use it vaginally, safer option.
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My understanding was that utrogestan does not raise risk of blood clots. I think I found this on Louise Newson's website. Menopause Doctor. There are a huge amount of very informative podcasts and leaflets. It's well worth a look especially when just setting out on the HRT path.
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My understanding was that utrogestan does not raise risk of blood clots. I think I found this on Louise Newson's website. Menopause Doctor. There are a huge amount of very informative podcasts and leaflets. It's well worth a look especially when just setting out on the HRT path.
Hi there, sorry for late reply. Yes, jsut watched a Davina McCall docu with Dr Louise Newson featuring. I also downloaded the breathe menopause app created by her and up for an award apparently. On the app it says that utrogestran poses no increase risk of clots since it's body identical. I'm learning lot's there (including here) and it's evidence baswed which put's my mind at ease.
https://www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/can-i-take-hrt-if-i-have-a-risk-of-a-blood-clot
Thanks!
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Hello, I have been reading through this forum for a couple of years. It was due to information gained from here that I asked my GP to prescribe Sandrena 1.5mg & Utrogestan 100mg. I had tried several forms of HRT and felt worse. My GP prescribed the Utrogestan 100mg continuously as I was post menopausal. I am 54.
I have been on this regime for approx 2 years. Last summer I was sent for a scan as I had had 2 bleeds approx 5 months apart. The scan was clear. I had another bleed in April which lasted approx 20 days, very light at first, then heavy finishing off light.
Went to my GP, the only way she would let me stay on the Sandrena & Utrogestan was to reduce Sandrena to 1mg. After 20 days my anxiety levels, irritability, return of sweats, etc were unbearable. I completed an econsult and whilst waiting have returned to 1.5mg Sandrena dose.
My GP doesn’t know a lot about Sandrena & Utrogestan as she doesn’t usually prescribe these. Sandrena/Utrogestan have been a HRT saviour for me and I don’t want to be moved onto something else.
Is there any other way I could take Utrogestan to stop the breakthrough bleeding?
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Hi just to reassure I'm factor 5 v Linden clotting disorder im on transdermal oestrogel and miconised progesterone utrogestan 9 years post 100mg utrogestan vaginal everynight and I'm on 2 pumps oestrogel not sure if I should up the dose as the utrogestan affects my ears, tinnitus that my only problem makes my ears feel blocking crackle
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Hi Aina666,
i do not know the answer to your question, but hopefully someone will be long soon with advice. Also it may be worth looking up louise Newson's website for info.
PMX
just found the below:
The majority of women who bleed when they are taking HRT do not have underlying pathology
Vaginal bleeding is a very common side effect of taking HRT. Bleeding usually settles within the first three to six months of starting HRT. Every time the dose of HRT is increased, or the type of HRT is changed, then bleeding can occur. Pathology is more likely in women who have heavy and prolonged bleeding and women who have bleeding beyond 6 months despite modifying their progestogen intake or where there is a concern about the clinical presentation or bleeding amount / pattern should be investigated appropriately10.
For the majority of women experiencing bleeding, changing their progestogen often controls bleeding. The dose of Utrogestan can increase to 200mg each evening (or 300mg for two out of four nights if taking cyclically). An alternative progestogen such as medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA) (5-10mg each day or 20mg cyclically) can often effectively reduce bleeding.
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Hi Pepperminty,
Thank you very much for this information.
I have a consultation booked with my GP on 1st June. I will try & guide her to trying a change my Utrogestan regime. My GP wants to change HRT as bleeding is out of the accepted timeframe, whereas I would rather tweak the regime I am on as I felt so much better on 1.5mg of Sandrena.
X
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Hello,
I've just returned to HRT after 18 months off. I'm on 100mg Utrogestan daily and 2 x pumps of Estrogel.
My sleep is transformed...but I feel sleepier in the day. Is this likely to be the utrogestan? I have no other side effects. Does it settle or is this 'a thing?'
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Hello,
My sleep is transformed...but I feel sleepier in the day. Is this likely to be the utrogestan? I have no other side effects. Does it settle or is this 'a thing?'
Very likely to be the utro and I haven't found it settled. You could try vaginally if you don't already.
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Hi Pepperminty,
Thank you very much for this information.
I have a consultation booked with my GP on 1st June. I will try & guide her to trying a change my Utrogestan regime. My GP wants to change HRT as bleeding is out of the accepted timeframe, whereas I would rather tweak the regime I am on as I felt so much better on 1.5mg of Sandrena.
X
If this is the amount of oestrogen you feel good on you need to find a way round the utro problem rather than reducing oestrogen. Apart from increasing utro other options would using it as a long cycle sequi regime (so you bleed a very 6 weeks) or changing the progestogin. A mirena coil is pretty much guaranteed to sort it out.
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Noheroicsplease, just wanted to say that I am on the same HRT regime as you, and found that switching to taking the Utrogestan at night solved the problem of drowsiness/fatigue during the day. It acts almost like a sleeping pill for me (quite pleasant) and I am sleeping better as a result.
Perhaps you could try changing the timing and see how that goes?
Good luck xx
LL
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Hi @Lamplighter - I do take it at night. Just before bed. It's been amazing for sleep. But I feel like I am drowsy in the day now.
x
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Hi I’m new to the forum, my GP prescribed Utrogetsan and OEstrodose/gel
She said to take the Utrogestan one before bed and the gel 1 pump daily to see how it goes. Well it’s been a week, I’ve tried it for a week and I’ve stopped taking it now.
I’ve had the worst nausea I’ve ever had in my life, I’ve had the worst headache I’ve ever had. It’s absolutely horrendous. I’d rather have a hot flush... I’m really put of HRT now which is a shame because I was so positive about it... I’m going to try natural remedies and more gym classes... currently been nursing a headache since 3am this morning... 😩
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Noheroicsplease, well bang goes that theory ;D. It's a pain being fatigued during the day, so I suppose you need to weigh up the pros and cons of it all. Nothing straightforward with this menopause experience is there? xxx
Howellis, sounds like you're having a terrible reaction to something (quite likely the utrogestan, judging by the number of people on here who have adverse reactions to it) which really is a shame as you say. Perhaps a different combination of HRT might help? I've been through several different sorts before settling on the one I'm on now (same as you) and was amazed at how different the effects of each were. Good luck with whatever you decide xxx
LL
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Hi I’m new to the forum, my GP prescribed Utrogetsan and OEstrodose/gel
She said to take the Utrogestan one before bed and the gel 1 pump daily to see how it goes. Well it’s been a week, I’ve tried it for a week and I’ve stopped taking it now.
I’ve had the worst nausea I’ve ever had in my life, I’ve had the worst headache I’ve ever had. It’s absolutely horrendous. I’d rather have a hot flush... I’m really put of HRT now which is a shame because I was so positive about it... I’m going to try natural remedies and more gym classes... currently been nursing a headache since 3am this morning... 😩
Hello Howellis, welcome to the Forum. What a shame! Perhaps it is the Utrogestan making you feel sick. Could you not try using it vaginally, thus bypassing the stomach? I'm no expert on Utrogestan as I don't have to use it, but it seems a pity to have to give up after a week when you were so positive about starting.
JP x
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Hi Howellis - welcome! My wife has reacted terribly to the utrogestan in this regime - we are gutted because the gel works wonders but the progesterone renders her feeling as sick as a dog, a complete zombie, etc etc. She has been on a conti regime (3 pumps and 100mg every day) for 9 weeks and we are now looking to move to a sequi regime so she can have less days on the utrogestan. Will seem a bit strange as she's been period free for 18 months but she cannot function on this tablet every day (orally or vaginally).
All that said - your symptoms could well be caused by too much estrogen. Whereabouts in your meno "journey" are you? Periods/symptoms/age etc? Could you perhaps drop to half a pump?
Best of luck with whatever you decide to do, but I would suggest to give it more than a week if you can bear it - the gel works WONDERS after a week or 2, honest :)
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Hello lovely ladies – this is such a wonderful resource 😊
Question:
How do I safely switch from sequi oral to conti vaginal Utrogestan if there is no bleed during the prog-free gap?
I am postmeno, 60 yrs. Been on HRT for 4 years. My prescription so far, taken in the evening:
1 pump estrogel (75 mcg) on thighs
1 peasized amount of Testogel (behind knees)
200 mg Utrogestan (oral) X 12 days per month, to be reduced to 100 mg cont daily or every other day.
Looking for a minimum amount of HRT as I need it longer term for bone health.
Because of increased breast tenderness/size and low-dose of estrogen I asked GP whether I could less Utro. GP recommended to use 100 mg Utro vaginally and on a conti regime daily or every other day, but she wanted to first confirm with a specialist. I am still waiting to hear back but am now approaching the end of my Utro free phase (day 17/31), so am not sure whether it’s safe to move from oral 200 mg to vaginal 100 mg (daily or on alternate days) after a 17 day gap? I failed to find an answer on the forum as to how I could transition safely.
Have had almost annual scans, lining always thin.
Never having bleeds during prog-free break.
Have a small cyst which has remained the same size.
Tolerated progesterone well, just made me super sleepy/drowsy 🤪 .
I worry that 100 mg on only alternate days isn't safe enough, but I could perhaps take it daily and have a 3 day gap once a month? Hurdity mentioned this somewhere but couldn't trace the thread.
I'm sorry about the long message but would love to hear your thoughts.
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If you don't bleed on your current regime it's most likely because you're on low dose oestrogen so there hasn't been a build up. I would take the 200mg x 12 days, give it 3 or 4 days to make certain you won't bleed then continue with conti. If you're worried about a build up you could arrange your own scan, I believe it's around £80.
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Wow! What a prompt reply, MUCH quicker than my GP ;D
Resuming 12x200 mg Utro (did you mean orally?) and then have a 3/4 days Utro-free break before switching sounds like a good plan - even though I am quite sure there won't be a bleed.
After the 3/4 days break are you suggesting that I'd switch to 100 mg daily (vaginally) with a 3 day break each month? Or did you mean 100 mg on alternate days and without an break?
And about the £ 80.- scan: good to know, I'd expected this to be more costly. You wouldn't be able to recommend a particular clinic anywhere in Greater London or the Southeast?
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I take it there isn’t an alternative to utrogestan for those who like using the gel? Apart from the mirena coil.
There’s obviously a progesterone in some patches along with estrogen, but not a progesterone only patch?
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Springtime - just to add that the licensed dose of utrogestan for continuous use is 100 mg orally for 25 days per 28 day cycle although in practice this is given daily. The 3 day break is to enable a bleed if there is to be one. As you know used vaginally for HRT is still bizarrely off licence and havling the vaginal dose compared with oral also off-licence.
Personally if you are switching to conti as well as vaginally I would start with daily 100 mg utro with the 3 day break for a few cycles and see how you get on, as you suggested yesterday and then take it from there.
Re scans - I've had these a couple of times through ultrasound direct - they operate nationwide I think?
Hope this helps
Hurdity x
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I take it there isn’t an alternative to utrogestan for those who like using the gel? Apart from the mirena coil.
There’s obviously a progesterone in some patches along with estrogen, but not a progesterone only patch?
Correct there are no progesterone only patches but the other licensed product is Provera available in tablet form which some women use successfully alongside transdermal oestrogen.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php
Hurdity x
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Springtime - just to add that the licensed dose of utrogestan for continuous use is 100 mg orally for 25 days per 28 day cycle although in practice this is given daily. The 3 day break is to enable a bleed if there is to be one. As you know used vaginally for HRT is still bizarrely off licence and havling the vaginal dose compared with oral also off-licence.
Personally if you are switching to conti as well as vaginally I would start with daily 100 mg utro with the 3 day break for a few cycles and see how you get on, as you suggested yesterday and then take it from there.
Re scans - I've had these a couple of times through ultrasound direct - they operate nationwide I think?
Hope this helps
Hurdity x
Perfect, thank you so much for clarifying this Hurdity, I’ll give the conti vaginal 100 mg Utro a go for 25 days and then have a break for 3 days. Can’t wait 😊 .
Three more questions, if I may:
a) When is a good time to start the new regime? I am currently on day 18, the penultimate day of my Utro-free phase. Can I start the new lower dose conti/vaginal regime tonight or is it safer to have another round of 12x200 mg of Utro first, check for a bleed (won’t happen though) and then start the 100 mg dose after a shorter gap?
b) I apply all items (estrogel/testogel/Utrogestan) together at the same time in the evening?
c) I’ll assume that unlike when taking Utro via the oral route, I no longer need to observe the 2 hour no food intake rule? 🥳
Very grateful for the recommendation re ultrasound scan: I’ve just looked up Ultrasound Direct.
x
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Hi I’m just going into my 3rd month of utrogestan and estrogel -2 pumps . Month one wonderful , month 2 when I came to the break between days 25-28 as advised to do by my dr I felt awful . Hot flushes dragging sensation in my uterus , and then bleeding , not a lot . I’m now in month 3, 6 days back into taking both and I feel much better in myself but still bleeding slightly and period like pains . Is this just the settling in time on the hrt and can you not have a break from the utrogestan , will this stop this problem ??
Thanks
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I've been on 3 pumps oestrogel and 2 oral utro 12 nights per month since FEB. I am 49 and peri.
I felt a real boost when I switched to this regime from Femoston 2/10.
However I now think I am forming a possible pattern of my anxiety kicking in quite badly when I finish the utro tablets and this takes about a week to subside.
Is there any way of improving/avoiding this?
Many thanks.
Ali x
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Can you just try using it continually Ali to prevent withdawal symptoms?
I've no idea Avalon :)
It's been so long since I've seen my preferred 'hrt' GP, for the last review I had in Jan with a different GP I had to 'tell' her the regime I wanted to switch to as she was pretty clueless. Thank god for this forum and the wonderful advice given..... I have no idea if I could/should take the utro continually!
Thanks for your reply.
Ali xx
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Hi Alibeau, whilst in peri our own hormones can go up and down in the backgound also. Try magnesium rich foods and breathing exercises also, as this may help.
Sometimes it is because we need more estrogen also. Or have you been using suncream or more moisturiser during the weather change which could effect absorption? Or have you been prescribed the other type of gel which some ladies don't find works so well. Liz Earle did a pod cast on this and there are threads here about it too.
Just some ideas incase .
Peppermintyxx
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Hello,
I hope you don’t mind me joining.
I’ve just been prescribed Utrogestan and Oestrogel.
I’ve missed 8 periods and have been struggling more and more with peri symptoms over the years and particularly last few months. Very low moods particularly bad.
I’ve not had HRT before. After reading up around I decided to ask for this regime.
I’m a bit concerned because it looks like my pharmacy don’t have it? Is there a problem getting it in U.K. at the moment?
If so which chemists stock it?
If I can’t get it I’m not sure which type of HRT to ask for. I get migraines so transdermal is advised. Also I have a history of being sensitive to progesterone (PMS, pill made me moody etc).
Any help at all or reassurance would be really appreciated.
Thank you. X
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Hi Wannbewell,
as far as I am aware there is no shortage , so I would speak to the chemist and ask why they can't get it.
PMXX
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I haven't had a problem getting it either, any pharmacy should be able to order it. I couldn't get on with the pill either, no side effects from the prog on evorel and get fatigue on utrogeston. I don't thing intolerance of the pill necessarily means you will have a problem with hrt.
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Hi Pepperminty and Sheila,
Thanks for your replies. The pharmacy can get them, so that’s a huge relief as I’ve been struggling with awful symptoms.
I’m hoping that I do well with the regime.
It should arrive in a couple of days.
Is it better to apply the Oestrogel in morning? Are inner thighs a good site to apply? Can I use Utrogestan capsule vaginally if I get side effects?
Sorry for all the questions.
Thanks very much for helping.
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Yes, yes and yes though it's off license this way in the UK though not in the rest of Europe.
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Thanks very much Sheila :)
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Please can someone tell me if this sounds right? I'm on day 9 of Oestrogel for peri symptoms and cyclical issues of depression and fatigue. My brain fog is much worse in the morning now. I feel totally horrible and like I can't focus on anything much. Insomnia still a problem. I definitely am in the last 10 days of my previous natural cycle so there hasn't been an improvement, if anything I feel worse - very bloated and gassy. Yesterday I felt nauseous. None of this feels like an improvement. I can't afford a private specialist and I'm wondering if I should wait until I can and just leave it for now. My FSH levels were apparently normal but I don't know about the other hormones. As I take SSRI perhaps that might affect it I just read on here... Ugh. Not the week I had hoped for...
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Hi Alibeau, whilst in peri our own hormones can go up and down in the backgound also. Try magnesium rich foods and breathing exercises also, as this may help.
Sometimes it is because we need more estrogen also. Or have you been using suncream or more moisturiser during the weather change which could effect absorption? Or have you been prescribed the other type of gel which some ladies don't find works so well. Liz Earle did a pod cast on this and there are threads here about it too.
Just some ideas incase .
Peppermintyxx
Thank you Pepperminty :thankyou:
I'm just at a point where I am feeling old before my time, aches and pains are creeping back in and I'm 'only' 49.... For the first time today I am wondering if I should look into paying to see someone privately so see if they have any ideas on how to get me back on track....
Ali x
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Ironinglady it's very early days yet, my insomnia and anxiety took 3 months to go. Can you tell us exactly what you're on? I'm a bit confused as you say day 9 gel but in the last 10 days of your cycle so assuming you're on a sequi regime you should be taking progesterone too now?
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Sorry @sheila99 I feel so sick and brain foggy I can’t even type!!! So this is month one and I started late into my natural pre existing cycle. Which means day 12 of the new cycle isn’t for another few days if you see what I mean. I was ignoring my own cycle and just starting oestrogel a bit late on the 1st of the month with the Ustrogen planned for the 12th I think? However I feel so sick, headachey and bloated that I don’t honestly have the heart to carry on as I feel so bad. Wondering if I should get all my bloods dont before I do anything else wjth a specialist.
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Hi Ironing lady,
tell us a bit more. Your age, if you are peri meno, what were youpreviuos symtoms before HRT? how much gel are you using? Have you taken the progesterone part yet?
The estrogen can make you feel sick and that is common when you start. Can you lower the dose ? Suck ginger sweets, as this can help along with small meals ( like morning sickness remedies) It will take at least 3 months for the body to adjust.
Pepperminty xx
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Morning all,
To recap: Was on HRT (Mirena/estrogel) for a few years - came off for 18 months - now trying Utrogestan/Estrogel.
After disliking taking Utrogestan orally, I've tried vaginally. The sluggish, tiredness side-effects have gone, for the most part - I don't like the 'mess' but I can live with it.
BUT, a quick question - I feel like I'm more irritable than usual. I mean, I'm no Pollyanna at the best of times, but I do feel more short-tempered.
Is that a 'thing?' Or am I imagining it?
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Hello
I am hoping somebody can help me, I have been prescribed Utrogestan and oestrogen gel and the leaflet states to start rubbing in the gel on the first day of menstrual cycle. This is my dilemma, my last period was 7 weeks ago and do not know when it is going to arrive therefore I have not used the gel yet. Do I have to wait for my period? and if I do what if I do not have one again. I hope that made sense. ::)
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Hi,
My Oestrogel and Utrogestan have arrived today.
It’s for 2 pumps of Oestrogel daily and 200mg Utrogestan for 12 days per month.
Do I start the Utrogestan on day 15? I’m just confused that it’s 12 days, I thought it was two weeks?
Do I push the plunger all the way down when getting the pumps of Oestrogel? GP only px one bottle? But I have three months worth of Utrogestan? I’ll have to ask him for two more bottles?
I’m excited to be starting my HRT. But, also a bit confused by how it’s been prescribed.
Could anyone help?
Thanks.
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Hi
Newbie poster but a bit confused.
Am on Oestrogen and Utrogestan HRT - start a few months ago. The utrogestan bit has been a bit of a nightmare as initially my GP prescribed 200mg vaginal utrogestan used for fertility treatment which I used for 10 days but caused real carnage to my vaginal area - assume either allergic reaction or too much dosage.
Have eventually managed to get GP to prescribe the 100mg tablets but it has taken a long time and I have since had one natural heavy period. Was due to start the utro tonight but this morning have woken up to another period so have no clue what to do. Also have abdominal cramping and heaviness, urgency to urinate - even though am on antibiotics for existing UTI. All in all its a car crash plus I am petrified to take the utro because of all the horrors stories and the knowledge that I cannot take it vaginally to make it easier if needed.
So my question is - can I start the utro tonight even though my period has arrived ?
Many thanks
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It's better to keep your own cycle in step with the hrt one so I would call this day 1 and take utro from day 15 as normal. The 200mg are the same as the 100mg except for the dose so there would be nothing wrong in taking the 200mg (I did for 3 years). It's just a bureaucracy problem that it's only licensed for ivf in the UK. I think you may have vaginal atrophy for which you will need to see your gp and get topical oestrogen. There are many posts on it if you search. Most people are absolutely fine on utro so the chances are you will be too.
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Hi,
I would as Sheila99 says, get some local estrogen as this can be a sign of VA. I would ask for vagifem and 0.01% estriol cream to rub a little on the outside. This may help the UIT's. Also ask to be referred to a women's health physio, as you may have a tight and overactive pelvic floor.
Peppermintyxx
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Thanks for the replies. Will look to start the utro in couple of weeks instead
With regard to the VA I already have Vagifem and estriol. Am fine with the Vagifem if I don't overdo it, estriol is a bit hit and miss so have to be very cautious otherwise it all kicks off !! Think I will just have to see how it all goes - fingers crossed.
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Hi,
My Oestrogel and Utrogestan have arrived today.
It’s for 2 pumps of Oestrogel daily and 200mg Utrogestan for 12 days per month.
Do I start the Utrogestan on day 15? I’m just confused that it’s 12 days, I thought it was two weeks?
Do I push the plunger all the way down when getting the pumps of Oestrogel? GP only px one bottle? But I have three months worth of Utrogestan? I’ll have to ask him for two more bottles?
I’m excited to be starting my HRT. But, also a bit confused by how it’s been prescribed.
Could anyone help?
Thanks.
I have the same, started today but wasn't sure on the pump quantity? I think it's estrogel in the mornings and utrogestan in the evenings? Haven't got much information on how to take these x
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Utro can have a sedative effect so most people take it in the evening. Your gp should have told you how much gel to use. I started on 2 pumps in peri but best to check first. You can use it at any time of day but stick to the same time each day.
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Hi everyone,
Little update....
Day 10 of Oestrogel, now on 1.5 pumps (working my way up to 2). Really noticed improvement with mood which was my biggest issue when requesting HRT. So far it seems to be suiting me.
I’m still getting used to applying it. I put it onto the mid inner thigh but I’m finding it hard to just smooth it on and not rub in .. I’m left with quite a bit on the palm of my hand with nowhere to put it, unless I rub it in a bit on the inner thigh??
Any tips appreciated.
Also, if I decide that I’d like to try Estrodot patch in the equivalent dosage (once I’ve settled on my dose) is it the same as Oestrogel? I think they’re both Estradiol .. is all Estradiol the same?
Thanks.
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Hi, I tried to put the gel on with just one or two fingers when I was using it so it didn't spread all over my hands.
I went onto Estradot 50 after just over a year and find them much more convenient. You use them twice weekly. They are quite small and transparent and stick very well without skin irritation. I put mine on my tummy below the waist swapping sides each time.
They seem to be pretty much the same in controlling symptoms once you get the dose right for yourself, although that is still a lot of trial and error!
I tried FemSeven conti when they were re-released this year, but had to stop after 3 weeks as they made angry red marks on my skin which lasted ages.
Hope you get on ok with whichever route you decide on! x
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I have been using the gel for over 15 yrs and I rub it in well until it is absorbed, always done it this way.
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I put a trail from the dispenser down my thigh then spread it with a finger tip. I think for oestrogen you're supposed to spread it rather than rub it in but the important thing is to do it the same each time so you get a consistent dose. I get a pump on each thigh but sometimes a bit on the top rather than the side, as you say you can run out of inner thigh (even more so on outer arms).
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Thanks very much for your replies.
Julia Dizzy: that’s something I may try .. the fingers, rather than my palm. Also, really good to know how you find the Estradot, just in case I need to try an alternative. Thanks for the information about the Femseven too.
Cassie: Wow, that’s really good to hear. I’m finding it suits me up to now .. day 10. Fingers crossed.
Sheila: I may try doing the trail down my inner thighs too. Thanks.
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Hi, I started taking Estrogel and Utrogestan about 3 months ago but felt so low (due to the progesterone I think) that I came off it after a week. I am thinking of giving it another go and wondered if my opened bottle of Estrogel will still be okay to use. I can’t seem to find anything online and don’t really want to bother my doctor with it. Any thoughts?
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Hi everyone,
Back to update and ask a question.
I’m now on day 18 of my first ever cycle of HRT.
Oestrogel: 2 pumps I’ve been fine with so far, my mood continues to be more stable, just a little wobble with anxiety and a drop in mood that was helped when I increased up to the 2 pumps.
I’m on day 3 of oral Utrogestan: 200mg 15-26 monthly. So far so good (fingers crossed). I’ve slept better, had some bloating and light cramping and a flush or two on the first night.
My question is: when am I likely to bleed?
Thanks.
I’ll keep updating periodically if that’s okay.
Edit: to say that I’ve been using two fingers to apply Oestrogel to my inner thighs with great success - thanks for the tip.
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Hi Ren70,
the gel should be ok if it has not gone past the use by date. Can you tell us more about your regime and symptoms , and why you stopped using it initially. They advise trying for 3 months as symptoms can settle. Perhaps start your own thread for support, as the ladies on here can reassure you if needed.
PMXx
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You should bleed a couple of days after stopping utro.
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Thanks sheila99 :)
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Hello can anybody help. I have been on Estrogel (4 pumps) and utrogestan (100mg vaginally on a 12 day cycle) for 8 weeks. I started off on 2 pumps of gel with no changes after 4 weeks and then gradually increased to 3 and was the same so then increased to 4. I have been on 4 pumps for 2 weeks tomorrow . I am on gel alone days at the moment and have another 10 days gel alone before I start my utrogestan gain.
I feel no benefits at all really. No energy, zero motivation , and been having little headache here and there. I have been patient and just gone with it as I’m aware takes time and we’re all different . My Meno doctor is aware and said to stay on the dose I am until my 3 month mark and we will re assess. She said maybe I’m not absorbing the gel.
The last few days I’ve woken with headache (boobs got a little bigger at the start and I felt a little bloated but neither have been bothersome really) I am extremely flat in mood and just not feeling like anything is working . I truly think I’ve had a hormonal imbalance for MANY years and been low on estrogen. I also think testosterone will help but as it goes can’t discuss that until after my 3 months and also my Meno doc said first we need to get estrogen optimised- which makes sense. I’m jsut so fed up. Waking with this left eye migraine and just wanting to go back to bed. I feel something is amiss but I don’t know what . Unless I’m just coincidentally under the weather ?! My question - could 4 pumps be TOO much?! I’m quite in tune with my body and think I’d know - and I’ve been just okay and waiting for it to maybe settle then hoping the benefits just appear and I wake up and am Like wow!! But at the moment especially I’m
Questioning of it’s too much? Last night I had a horrible mood meltdown. Like awful pmt and I felt horrible and it was horrible! My husband and children thought I’d been possessed for half an hour! I was aware so went for a walk but today I’ve woken with this little headache again and the same feeling of wanting to return to bed. When I first started hrt in 2 pumps I got to day 10 and realised I was waking feeling okay and not dread and doom. I’ve not had anymore days like that since (although the dread and doom is a bit better! It’s just more the feeling flat tired and no energy or motivation. No spring in my step or spark.
Can anyone chat? X
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Hi
Have people taking Utrogestan (100mg daily) found they feel slightly depressed/flat/low mood? I can't work out if it's real life or utrogestan
Thanks
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Hello Noheroicsplease.
I assume that you are taking the Utrogestan orally.
Many of us are advised to use the capsules vaginally instead so as to reduce side effects but I wonder if this delivery method still causes low mood in some women?
Perhaps other ladies who respond to your question will have the answers.
Take care.
K.
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Can anyone help …. I’m on month 4 of taking utrogestan 100 mg daily and 2 pumps of estrogel . Month 1 fine but from then on although I feel much better in myself and no flushes I have been having a brownish period ? May last a day then go , may last a few days or may only be on wiping 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ I thought on this regime I would not bleed at all ? Is it the dosage that’s wrong ? Any advice appreciated
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Hi Jag2107,
bleeding on a conti regime for at least the first 3 to 6 months is normal until the body adjusts. If it is heavy or persistant then the dose or type could be changed. Do not worry as yet and speak to your GP i you feel worried.
see the link below
https://d2931px9t312xa.cloudfront.net/menopausedoctor/files/information/531/Vaginal%20bleeding%20during%20perimenopause%20and%20menopause%20v21-02.pdf
PM x
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Hi everyone
I recently started Utrogestan 100mcg vaginally with Sandrena 0.5 daily two weeks ago. For the first 5 days no problems. Day 6 started to get lower abdominal bloating and bladder irritation. Dropped utrogestan to every other night, bloating eased off a bit for a couple of days but then came back with bladder ache, urethral irritation, frequency and really low mood. I have had to stop, has anyone else had this with Utrogestan?
Thanks
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Hi, can I ask for advice? I'm using the patches and they are going well. Estradot 37.5. It has relived my anxiety which is heaven sent !! However, I cannot get along with the Utrogestan at all. Tried it vaginally and still getting side effects. Mainly poor sleep, vivid dreams and just feel terrible. I can't just progress with this one-sided type of regime and have to do something about the progesterone. My lining has thickened slightly so clearly I have to make a call on this. Has anyone chosen a hysterectomy just so you can stay on the Estrogen? It seems extreme, but what choices are there?? If I can't handle the most natural form of Progesterone, I am sure the synthetics will be worse. I have never had a Mirena coil or been on the Pill. I am just so sensitive to this progesterone it seems. I actually do not even want to try a synthetic hormone. This is all just to keep my anxiety under control. Should I just take an Anti-anxiety medication and put HRT behind me ??
I would really appreciate some feed back because this is doing my head in just trying to sort HRT out. I am very worried about my uterus so I need to make a decision.
Thanks in advance x
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What strength utrogestan are you using? Could you try the 100mg used vaginally for about 12 days per month, I do this as I cannot get along with it either. I do have many sleepless nights, feel wired up but as you progress it seems to settle, I couldnt get along with the 200mg. Its not licenced really to use like this but I have been doing so for many many years and a few other ladies also use it cyclically. You could get a scan now and then to be sure your uterus lining is keeping thin. Its a horrible part of the regime, I know, but sadly, very necessary.
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I got on fine with the prog in evorel conti but am wiped out by utro. It doesn't always follow that utro is best. All ops carry some risk, not sure anyone will remove a healthy womb so you don't need progesterone.
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Hi Ladies,
I think Hurdity uses utro on a long cycle vaginally, as she doesn't like the side effects. That could be an option if you know how your womb reacts and have the regular scans to check. At least you then get several good weeks of estrogen only. Or Provera is another option that some ladis get on with.
PMX
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Hello,
I would like to try HRT BUT lowest dose possible. I am 52 and my period stopped 4 months ago. I have bad perimenopause symptoms which back pain and pain all over my body when I wake up and tried for 1 month evorel 25 patch + utrogestran 100 mg 6 months ago but stopped as very sore breast and swollen leg. Do not know what to take now as suffer on top of aching joint, vaginal dryness and palpitation and severe anxiety. Can you suggest lowest dose by patch ?
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Hi Cassie
I’m using 100mg. I delayed the start of it though which I think was a mistake. The Estradot Patch is 37.5 so that’s a fairly low dose. My GP assured me that it would be fine to go a couple of months without it and let things settle, which is true, things did. But, I didn’t realise I would have a hard time with the Utro so now I’m kind off ‘dependent’ on the Estrogen and don’t want to stop it. The weird thing is, I have never struggled with PMT, PND or any adverse effects of progesterone during my periods and pregnancies. I wonder sometimes if it’s just my anxiety kicking in about taking a ‘new’ medication, something I do struggle with. I am not even keen on paracetamol.
I have had two scans already. Lining was 3mm 8 weeks ago and just last week, 5mm. I was given a stern talking to by the Gynaecologist who viewed the scan. She strongly suggested to go home and start the progesterone or come off HRT altogether. I did as ordered and have struggled. I bled slightly so that made me feel relieved as this action thins the lining doesn’t it ?? Has anyone had a hysterectomy just to stay using the Estrogen?? Or, should I persist with the vaginal Utro path??
Cassie, is this what you have opted for? What form of Estrogen are you on ? If you feel dreadful for part of a month, are the benefits worth it ?
Thanks for your comments Cassie, I appreciate it. X
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Hi Sheila, I have an appointment with a Gynae doctor in September to discuss options, but yes, it seems an extreme measure to remove my uterus just to make this work. If I hadn’t already spent so much time researching HRT, particularly following the Dr Louise Newson website, I would probably have given it away. Her views have really influenced me and I do want all the health benefits Estrogen delivers. On several of her videos/interviews, Louise mentions she herself has had a hysterectomy so I wondered whether that was to avoid the Progesterone as well. If seems a lot of women struggle with it sadly.
I could look at this Evorel Conti. What strength do you take and are you still taking it? Is it bio identical ?
Thanks again for your comments x
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Hi Pepperminty, I would like to hear how this long cycle works? I’m new here so not sure how to contact Hurdity for her comments. Would you be able to direct me to her or ask if she can take a quick look at our woes ??
Can I ask for some further info on Provera ? Is it a tablet taken orally or a patch including progesterone?
Thanks again for you reply x
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I take 1 pump of the gel, so also a low dose. I take 12 tablets of the 100mg vaginally supposed to be monthly but I cheat terribly so really every 7 weeks or so, I get a decent bleed on that. I feel bad on the Utrogestan part in that I feel wired up and get palpitations, almost as if I had had too much caffeine. I tell myself its only 12 days and I just suck it up, not much option really apart from the drastic measure of hysterectomy. Really hope you can find a protocol that suits you.
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Hi ELM
it says messages on the tabs above. A long cycle should be agreed by a proffessional. There ia also a treatment tab at the top of the page which has types on it of progetserone. Or type in long cycleinto the search box. I hope ou find something that works for you.
PMxx
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Elm I use utro on a long cycle (6 weeks). I've always had a 6 week cycle so did it this was as much to keep the hrt cycle in sync with my own. Tried 12 days x 100mg but didn't bleed so use 12x200mg . I had to stop evorel because I developed an allergic reaction to the glue. I don't think it's body identical but I felt better on it than utro. Provera has worked for others who can't cope with utro. Although body identical is best in theory if you find one with no side effects that may be the one that's best for you.
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Hi
Is it possible to use utro vaginally on continuas regime ??
Thanks Wx
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Hello ladies.
Warwick01 - I use Utrogestan vaginally on a continuous regime, along with Oestrogel and Testosterone.
I am sure other ladies also use it this way and hopefully they will be along soon to add their comments.
Take care.
K.
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Hi ladies,
Can I ask those taking 100mg utrogestan continous and vaginally, is every other day a sufficient dose?
Also if you did take it every day vaginally, could this be bad for you if you are absorbing more than you would orally?
I can't find an opinion online if you can absorb too much vaginally and what the consequences could be.
Many thanks
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Thanks for that Avalon.
Can I ask if your lining thickened on 100mg every day or alternate days?
Many thanks again.
Sue
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Hi interesting to read this Avalon, I take 100mg utro days 1-25 then 3 off and 2 pumps of orstrogel daily , and I’m bleeding not so much on my three days off but half way through the 25 days 🤷🏻♀️ Could this mean my dose is wrong ?
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Hi jag2107 the up to date advice is that you take the Utrogestan every day in post menopause. It can take 6 months for bleeding to stop or it could be that your body is not ready for a continuous regime . x
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Any thoughts...
I’ve just completed 2nd cycle of oestrogel 2 pumps and Utrogestan. From around day 24 worse bloating (really big stomach), very low mood episodes, cognitive issues, weakness and lethargic (though I do have ME and also hypothyroidism). Generally feeling crap (pardon my French).
Will this improve? My GP isn’t very good regarding menopause or HRT so when three months review it’d be good to know if I need to change anything. I asked if he’d check my thyroid after three months but he said it’s not needed .. I thought it was?
Also, I’ve had three days spotting and one day very light period.
Thanks.
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Hi Wannabewell - are you on cyclical or daily utrogestan? Either way your symptoms could be side effects from the utro especially if taking it orally. Your options are to take it cyclically if you're not alrready doing so or hang in there and see if things improve. If you are hypothyroid and menopausal then these could be the reasons for your ME. I would definitely keep checking your thyroid levels and especially if you are getting symptoms which suggest replacement is not yet optimal. Has the gel alleviated some of the menopausal symptoms you eere hoping? Hope you feel better soon.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity - I’m on cyclical Utrogestan days 15-26 monthly, taken orally. I am unsure how to use it vaginally especially as I take 2 capsules.
I’m thinking of hanging on for a cycle or two to see if things settle down.
I’m hoping to get my thyroid checked.
The gel has alleviated night sweats and flushes. My mood is improved but not as much as during the first cycle, on first cycle I felt happy most of the time and had less anxiety (on Oestrogel part). On second cycle my mood is better than it was but it’s disappointing that I’m not as happy, on the Utrogestan part I’m quite low at times but not as low as I was before HRT.
Wannabewell x
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Hi Hurdity - I’m on cyclical Utrogestan days 15-26 monthly, taken orally. I am unsure how to use it vaginally especially as I take 2 capsules.
I’m thinking of hanging on for a cycle or two to see if things settle down.
I’m hoping to get my thyroid checked.
The gel has alleviated night sweats and flushes. My mood is improved but not as much as during the first cycle, on first cycle I felt happy most of the time and had less anxiety (on Oestrogel part). On second cycle my mood is better than it was but it’s disappointing that I’m not as happy, on the Utrogestan part I’m quite low at times but not as low as I was before HRT.
Wannabewell x
Hi Wannabewell,
I am on month 6 or 7 of Oestrogel and Utrogestan, I've lost track! Initially I felt quite a boost from the new regime and then had a tough time around months 4 and 5 and was looking to make some changes. However I stuck with it (3 pumps of gel and oral Utrogestan 2 x 100mg nights 15-28) and am feeling pretty good again at the moment... I am keeping my fingers cross that this improvement is not just a blip!
So depending on how bad you feel, you might want to stick with it to see if things settle down?
Best of luck.
Ali x
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Hi Ali,
Thanks so much for replying with your experience, that’s really helpful. I’m so glad you’re doing well on it at the moment and it offers me some hope. I’ll keep going on this regimen and keep fingers crossed.
Been a bad day today, really low mood and flat energy, so many thanks.
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Hi Ali,
Thanks so much for replying with your experience, that’s really helpful. I’m so glad you’re doing well on it at the moment and it offers me some hope. I’ll keep going on this regimen and keep fingers crossed.
Been a bad day today, really low mood and flat energy, so many thanks.
Awwwww I feel for you. Just take one day at a time, sending best wishes xx
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Thanks, I’m trying but it’s difficult at times isn’t it. Best wishes :) xx
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Hi @alibeau
Just a little update to see what you think.
I just started Utrogestan part of my third cycle and I can only describe it as zoning out. My eyes are wide open, I blink less (like staring) and feel incredibly calm and no emotion at all .. just blank. It’s really odd. It’s not pleasant. Have you experienced this?
Has anyone else experienced this?
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Hi @alibeau
Just a little update to see what you think.
I just started Utrogestan part of my third cycle and I can only describe it as zoning out. My eyes are wide open, I blink less (like staring) and feel incredibly calm and no emotion at all .. just blank. It’s really odd. It’s not pleasant. Have you experienced this?
Has anyone else experienced this?
Well, I think I have experienced similar, it comes until an umbrella of feelings that I call the zombie effect. I have found as the months have gone by (I started this regime in Feb) that these side effects have lessened dramatically. I still have the odd spell where I feel exhausted, zoned out, 'zombied' but far less often. As always I guess my advice is stick with it? I know a lot of advice is to stick with it for 3 months but I'm only just starting to feel that everything is settling down at this point..... and I know this is so hard to hear when you are struggling...
Best wishes,
Ali x
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Hi @alibeau
Thanks very much for replying, it is reassuring to know that you understand and have experienced similar, and that is has improved. I’ll stick it out, today I’m much less zombie-d though I’m still having exhausted episodes.
Thanks,
xx
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Hi wannabewell,
I have been on 2x pumps Estrogel, plus 1x 100 Utrogestan taken vaginally for 3 years now ( I am coeliac - so the less that goes through my stomach , the better) I only take the utro on days 14-25 ….12 days in total. I have a bleed around days 22/23 for about 5 days - It took 12 months to get back to ‘normal’ me , so stick with it , it does get better :)
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Hi @Patti,
Thanks very much for your message, that’s reassuring.
I had my 3 month review yesterday and we agreed that I’ll try working up to three pumps of Oestrogel as my (very low) cyclical depression has not resolved.
Fingers crossed :)
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Hi All, I am new, and have also put a post on new members, but thought I would also ask on this thread.
I am 48, perimenopausal had still been having periods bust some changes in regularity and amount of bleeding over last 2 years. Lots of symptoms for 2 years ish including flushes, massive sweats, anxiety/irritability, palpitations, insomnia and fatigue. Just recently I had got the the point of feeling so unwell I could hardly function. :'(
I have just started on Sandrena gel 1mg and utrogestan 200mg days 15-26. I am one week in, on the gel part only.
But for the last 2-3 days I have felt just totally wiped out. I wake up feeling like I can hardly drag myself out of bed and feel totally exhausted and spaced out most of the day. I was not expecting this on the oestrogen part of the cycle and wondered if anyone else had experienced anything similar initially? Everything I read suggests this sort of effect is more common with utrgoestan part and the oestroegn part has the opposite effect!
Anyway, I will stick with it for no, although a bit worried how I will function when Im back at work tomorrow.....
Would love to hear from anyone who may have expxerienced this or similar seemingly unusual side effects from the oestrogen gel part. Thanks
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Hi marvelousways,
I’m pretty new to HRT (Oestrogel and Utrogestan) too. On my forth cycle.
Just bumping this thread in the hope that one of the experienced members will see it.
Hope you’re okay x
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Your reaction is unusual. It's a bit soon to see much benefit but you shouldn't be worse. It's possible there's something it that doesn't agree with you but maybe a bit soon for that conclusion too. Have you had a covid jab or been exposed to a bug? I would give a bit longer and if it doesn't improve ask for something different.
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thanks both. I am now on day 13 and the odd feelings has gone! Not sure if I am seeing much beneift yet, but side effects have deifntiely worn off, if thats what they were - who knows! WIll stick at this dose for at least a couple of cycles and then review.
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Hi marvelousways,
Glad the symptoms settled. I had some ups and downs in the first three cycles and when I increased (following review) Oestrogel to half pump extra I was spaced out, so reduced it to 1/4 pump and things have settled. I’ll increase up to full extra pump slowly - I am sensitive to medication.
Also, I think my own hormones are fluctuating in the background so that can confuse me at times too.
Good luck x
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Hi ladies! I am in 6 pumps Oestrogel and 100mg Utrogestron nightly! I have recently had an appt with Newson clinic and was convinced my HRT would be changed or at least my dose as I’m still getting symptoms! I have a real heavy feeling in my chest like an anxious feeling but I think because I mentioned fatigue and achy joints she has started me on Androfeme! My question is to you all do you think I would benefit from decreasing the Oestrogel as a trial? My concern is my next appt is in another 10 weeks and I think it will all need to be changed again?
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I thought I’d cracked it after 6 months of being on 2 pumps of gel and 100mg utro , but this last week after doing my two pumps of gel at night within a couple of hours I feel like my blood is boiling 🤷🏻♀️🙈 any ideas ??
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Hi ladies! I am in 6 pumps Oestrogel and 100mg Utrogestron nightly! I have recently had an appt with Newson clinic and was convinced my HRT would be changed or at least my dose as I’m still getting symptoms! I have a real heavy feeling in my chest like an anxious feeling but I think because I mentioned fatigue and achy joints she has started me on Androfeme! My question is to you all do you think I would benefit from decreasing the Oestrogel as a trial? My concern is my next appt is in another 10 weeks and I think it will all need to be changed again?
I wouldn't change 2 things at the same time. Maybe give the Adrofeme a chance to work before changing oestrogen.
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Hi, just looking for some opinion/advice on what to do.
I was originally started on 2 pumps of gel and 12 days Utro but my period pain was through the roof with it having been diagnosed with endo a few years ago. I was advised that as Im 51 I should try the Utro continuously which Ive been doing for a few months now. My periods have stopped in doing this but I feel so terribly flat. No excitement, libido now TOTALLY gone ( I already use Tostran ) and Im tired most of the day. But its really this feeling of nothingness thats really getting to me. Can anyone suggest alternative options? I cannot tolerate the Utrogestan vaginally.
Much appreciated.
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Hi Sprocket! I know a few ladies do a very short cycle of Utrogestron! I believe some do it for 7 days a month but obviously have to have regular scans! Have you thought about the Mirena coil?
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Hiya. Unfortunately I cant have synthetic progesterones so Mirena’s not possible. Do you know if the ladies who do short cycles with the Utro still have a bleed??
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I do 12 days of the 100mg Utrogestan every other month and always have a good bleed for at least 5 days.
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Re: utrogestan 100 daily & Estraderm 75 ( 2 patches a week )
Hi all,
My first time on here so please forgive if I’ve posted wrongly.
I’m on the above medication and have been for 8 months, my issue is horrendous low mood/anxiety, has anyone else any experience of the same medication dose with similar issues. Am ready to give up on HRT altogether as I really can’t find anything that suits me.
Thanks everyone x
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I do 12 days of the 100mg Utrogestan every other month and always have a good bleed for at least 5 days.
Cassie - do you feel any better, mentally? Also can I ask, were you still having periods when you started on HRT?
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It does sound like you both just need to increase your Estrogen, we all need the dose that treats the symptoms, so if you still have symptoms you are either not on enough and could try an increase or change type but your doses are not much so if it were me then I would try an increase first. Trial and a lot of error to get it right, I’ve been trying for over 2 1/2 years and still not there yet, I’m peri.
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Hi Floo! I think that it’s only because I’ve just seen a specialist that I’m not increasing! I have another 9 weeks til my follow up and she wants me to stick with this til then? Still thinking about stopping the Utrogestron for a short period of time to see if that is the problem?
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Hi s.hunter :welcomemm:
I've not used Estraderm, though at one point I was on another brand of 75mcg oestradiol patch with 100 mg Utrogestan, but find I can't tolerate Utrogestan whatever the dose of oestrogen I take it with, or whichever route I take the Utro by. This doesn't necessarily mean Utro is also wrong for you, though many of us do find progesterone/progestogens give us problems if we're on a type or regimen that's wrong for us. It could be that Utro doesn't agree with you or that your oestrogen dose is not right, or you may have absorption problems. You may just need to tweak your existing regimen (change oestrogen dose, try cyclical instead of continuous prog, try Utro vaginally if you currently take it by mouth), or try another HRT option if you've not exhausted them all, so please don't give up hope. Won't go further into it here today but can I suggest you start a thread of your own in the New Members section so that more women may see it & respond & you can then explore together what steps you can take to get a better HRT fit? If you give us a little more info e.g stage of menopause, what else you've tried etc, you should get some helpful replies.
Wx
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thanks both. I am now on day 13 and the odd feelings has gone! Not sure if I am seeing much beneift yet, but side effects have deifntiely worn off, if thats what they were - who knows! WIll stick at this dose for at least a couple of cycles and then review.
Hi, I started this regime three weeks ago. I was super sleepy on sandrena 1mg too. But also quick to anger. I'm on the utrogestan part now and it feels better than I expected, moods been ok and I'm sleeping well.
Mo
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Hello
After trying everol sequi patches, upping the patch, then everol upped again to 75 with utrogesten I have now been switched to utrogesten with oestrogel. Quite quickly I upped to 3 pumps instead of my prescribed 2, because I was on holiday and feeling impatient for results after a 6 month hrt journey with no real results.
The results so far feel very encouraging and I'm hoping they keep building. Not sure what to expect of my period when it comes though!
As for the utrogesten it does give me bloating and loose stools. I seem to be ok with mood on it though. It also helps me sleep more but that sleep is full of dreams so I'm not sure how much valuable sleep I get.
My specialist wants me to persevere with a couple more months of the utrogesten orally before trying vaginally. Did others find the tummy issues settle down? I'm currently on my second month of the utrogesten.
Also will the initial energy I feel on the gel continue? I hope so!!!
Thanks
Cookie
Xxx
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Did he give you a reason? I can't think of one. He isn't watching...
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Hi there
Yes! Tried it twice and have given up day before yesterday for the second time. I didn't even get round to starting the Utrogestan pills.
Felt really, really, really sh**. the worst thing was the pure rage which I have never had before, never had PMS or anything like that.
I'm 50, have had no hot flushes, periods becoming erratic with both timing and flow, sometimes horrendously heavy and then really light. Was prescribed HRT for worsening migraines and although I personally don't believe it has anything to do with my hormones I was prepared to give a try not least because I was also starting to feel really low (I attribute that to living in constant fear of a migraine).
I started a thread a few days ago on this subject. It seems HRT isn't for everyone. Took my last pump 2 days ago and feel better already.
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There are other chemicals in it apart from oestrogen. It's possible you have a bad reaction to one of these and you may be OK with a different brand.
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hi there
do you mean the estrogel? I thought it was all the same stuff just delivered in benign carrier gel or via patch?
I remember the first time I tried the regime I started the gel and utrogestan pills at the same time and in addition to feeling instantly suicidal and angry my boobs almost doubled in size and were incredibly uncomfortable.
I don't think I can put myself through any more experiments having been through propanalol, pizotifen, various tryptilines, topiramate and one that I can't remember.
I know I have reached the end of the road with ever trying to find a cure. There's nothing I can do except accept that at 50 my life is essentially over. I can knit, take the dog out, drive the children around. that's it!
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Hi Kelly76,
5 expresso sums it up well! That’s exactly how I felt when I upped my gel from 2 pumps to 3. It felt like that for a few days and then calmed, everything has been so much easier since.
Good luck.
Victoria.🙂
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Ladies
How long does it take on oestrogel dose to know if it's enough or know it's time to move up another pump?
Cookie
Xxx
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Hi Cookie25, I waited a month to increase from 2 pumps to 3 but I now wish I’d waited half that. I did feel a bit wired for a couple of days and certainly caught up with work, cleaning and ironing!
Hope you wake up feeling great!
Victoria.xx
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Utrogestan and abdominal pain
Hi everyone,
Did any of you suffer from abdominal pain for a few weeks after taking this orally for the first time?
My abdominal pain has been in my back, high up near ribs, central naval pain sharp, one-sided then diffuse. Pain is in the digestive system rather than the womb. After 2 weeks of oral use I switched back to vaginal use 5 days ago (100mg alternate nights) and I have constant discomfort during the day and more pain at night, it wakes me up.
If you can share your experiences/insights into this I would be really grateful.
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Bump 4 new member
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Bump 4 new member
Thank you :-*
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Hello,
Hope you are all well.
Has Utrogestan sparked hair loss in anyone?
I've been taking 100mg continously for about 6 weeks and my hair is shedding. Again. It used to do this a fair bit. (It didn't do it when I stopped HRT for 18 months).
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Hi Ladies
I'm peri so doing 12 days a month on utrogestan along with oestrogen daily.
Today I started a very light bleed whilst still on the utro phase, this has never happened before. Could it be that I have increased my gel too much? I was on three with 4 some days but latterly I've been using 4 daily.
I've now not taken utro tonight and will just count today as day one ( it was day 25).
I've been on utro for about 4months now and never bled in the utro phase before.
Any advice welcome!
Thanks Cookie xxx
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Hi Cookie,
try a separate post , you may get more answers.
best wishes
PMXX
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If you're still peri it's probably caused by your own hormones. My own cycle is always stronger than the hrt one.
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Sorry if this has been asked before but I cannot find a thread.
I am terribly bloated the last couple of months since upping my Estrogel, should I just hang in there will it go down? Or should I reduce back to 1 pump instead of 2? Or is it Estrogel just does not suit me 🙈🙈🙈
It is definitely not the Utrogestan as i trialled Estrogel alone and still had bloating.
I have tried drinking more water, yoga, limiting certain foods 🙈 nothing seems to help 😞
Also seems to be more like fluid retention as I have no wind or pain however have fluid under chin with the bloating 😞
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Utrogestan and abdominal pain
Hi everyone,
Did any of you suffer from abdominal pain for a few weeks after taking this orally for the first time?
My abdominal pain has been in my back, high up near ribs, central naval pain sharp, one-sided then diffuse. Pain is in the digestive system rather than the womb. After 2 weeks of oral use I switched back to vaginal use 5 days ago (100mg alternate nights) and I have constant discomfort during the day and more pain at night, it wakes me up.
If you can share your experiences/insights into this I would be really grateful.
I suffered terrible stomach pain when I first started and was advised to drop to one tablet instead of two for the first month because of it. It did settle after a few months and now just have a few random days on each cycle where I feel sore but it’s not too bad any more. Hope that helps!
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Hi
Perhaps you ladies can help as answers on my individual post are still confusing me. With the utrogestan part of cyclical HRT, if you do your days 12 to 26 and your period is then late to start, do you count day 1 to restart utro by the calendar, or by day 1 of the bleed?
ie do you just stick to a 28 day schedule regardless, or do you start counting again from day 1 of bleeding?
Thanks
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Sorry, I won't bother replying again then.
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I haven't re-read throughout but do wonder why hormonal upheaval causes an increase in migraines?
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Newbie here 😉
I’ve been on 2 pumps of oestrogel for 4 years alongside the Mirena coil. I’ve just had the coil removed (inserted 6 years ago and was told, as I was over 45, it would see me through the menopause. I’ve now found out it’s only good for 10 years as contraception, not HRT.) So I’ve had a year of oestrogen only and now have a pelvic ultrasound booked next week 🙄
I thought I’d try going cold turkey but after 10 days of bad nights I’m surrendering! I’ve been given oral utrogestan to take alongside the oestrogel but haven’t been told to have a break for a withdrawal bleed (there are 30 per pack and the label says take 1 daily.)
I’m hoping this is the case as I haven’t had a bleed for 6 years since having the coil and don’t want one now!
I also feel frustrated not really knowing how far along I am in the menopause journey as they don’t test blood for oestrogen levels. I started having flushes and broken sleep which is why I began HRT 4 years ago (but I had no periods because of the coil). I must admit I had high hopes that HRT would give me my va va voom back :-\ I’m fit and healthy but still lack energy. I’m having my thyroid levels checked tomorrow.
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Hi all. Hope you’re all well and had a good day today.
I’m so pleased I found this thread and have been reading through and would appreciate any thoughts if that’s ok?
I’ve been on 2 different types of HRT, last one being Femeston 2/10 for nearly 2 years and now have both gel and capsules as lots of symptoms were getting worse.
I use 4 pumps in the morning (1 on each limb) and Utrogestan x1 at bed time (everyday) and vaginal estrogen at bedtime too.
I’ve only been on it 15 days and although the utrogestan makes me extremely sleepy very quickly (which is absolutely fabulous being a rubbish sleeper!) and my sleep has deepened, but I do still wake (which I can cope with) but unfortunately I’m very heady when I wake and this last quite a while into the day and makes me feel awful.
As I’m only taking 1 capsule and I already use vaginal cream I’m unsure how/if I need to tweak or hang on in there.
Thank you 😊
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Well I'm feeling a bit like I am back at square one again....
I'm 49, Peri, been on 3 pumps of Oestrogel daily with 14 nights of 200mg oral Utrogestan.
Started this regime at the start of 2021 to replace Femoston 2/10. Took a while to settle on it but definitely had a good run of months where I felt it was working well.
However over the Xmas period symptoms have started to creep back in...
Fatigue, headaches, migraines, hot (but not necessarily hot flushes), sleeping well but feeling just as exhausted on waking, fizzy anxious chest on waking and periodically throughout the day, aches and pains mainly in hips, left ribs and hands, palpitations...
I am under quite a bit of stress at the moment, well its been a couple of months really and wonder if this has brought things on or whether I need to reassess my dosage etc?
Any feedback would be great.
Thank you.
Ali x
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Hi all. Hope you’re all well and had a good day today.
I’m so pleased I found this thread and have been reading through and would appreciate any thoughts if that’s ok?
I’ve been on 2 different types of HRT, last one being Femeston 2/10 for nearly 2 years and now have both gel and capsules as lots of symptoms were getting worse.
I use 4 pumps in the morning (1 on each limb) and Utrogestan x1 at bed time (everyday) and vaginal estrogen at bedtime too.
I’ve only been on it 15 days and although the utrogestan makes me extremely sleepy very quickly (which is absolutely fabulous being a rubbish sleeper!) and my sleep has deepened, but I do still wake (which I can cope with) but unfortunately I’m very heady when I wake and this last quite a while into the day and makes me feel awful.
As I’m only taking 1 capsule and I already use vaginal cream I’m unsure how/if I need to tweak or hang on in there.
Thank you 😊
Hi Keli
:welcomemm:
Sorry to hear about the utrogestan side effects. Unfortunately these are common side effects with utro - but if I were you I would give it a while longer to see if your body acclimatises to daily use and they settle. If you are taking it orally then this can give rise to more side effects that vaginal use as there are more metabolic breakdown products from going through the digestive system and the liver.
You may also find that the dose of utro is not quite enough to protect the endometrium (womb lining) depending on how much for the 4 pumps you absorb. The higher the dose of oestrogen the more progesterone is needed but the Utrogestan dose is licensed to be the same whatever the dose of oestrogen - which is not right really!
Also depending on your age and stage of menopause you were at when you started the Femoston - if you are not yet at menopause then you may get sporadic bleeding if your cycle breaks through. Also in any case there is bleeding to be expected during the first 3-6 months on continuous HRT so do be prepared for that!
Plenty of time for tweaking. How you feel is vital as well as womb protection!
Hope it all works for you and you feel the benefits.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity,
Many thanks for your response. I’ve kept with same dosage of Utrogestan but have been taking vaginally so I think I’ll have to see how it goes. I’ve had to stop the vaginal eatrogen obviously but I can deal with that once I have the essential ones correct.
I did think I may still bleed so am prepared for that.
Apologies, didn’t give all the information, I’m 50, been peri menopausal for around 4 1/2 years. Had numerous health issues (some related the Menopause some not) so took another few years to finally get a diagnosed 🙄 been taking HRT for last 2 years.
Having to fight for particular items and work out your own dosage, when you’re feeling awful, is draining so additional help is needed for me now.
I’ve gone onto a waiting list to go privately so hopefully things resolve and settle soon for me and it’s been horrific.
Also hoping everyone reaching out gets the help/guidance required to feel better.
It’s great to have groups like this to help 😄
Many thanks.
Keli
Hi all. Hope you’re all well and had a good day today.
I’m so pleased I found this thread and have been reading through and would appreciate any thoughts if that’s ok?
I’ve been on 2 different types of HRT, last one being Femeston 2/10 for nearly 2 years and now have both gel and capsules as lots of symptoms were getting worse.
I use 4 pumps in the morning (1 on each limb) and Utrogestan x1 at bed time (everyday) and vaginal estrogen at bedtime too.
I’ve only been on it 15 days and although the utrogestan makes me extremely sleepy very quickly (which is absolutely fabulous being a rubbish sleeper!) and my sleep has deepened, but I do still wake (which I can cope with) but unfortunately I’m very heady when I wake and this last quite a while into the day and makes me feel awful.
As I’m only taking 1 capsule and I already use vaginal cream I’m unsure how/if I need to tweak or hang on in there.
Thank you 😊
Hi Keli
:welcomemm:
Sorry to hear about the utrogestan side effects. Unfortunately these are common side effects with utro - but if I were you I would give it a while longer to see if your body acclimatises to daily use and they settle. If you are taking it orally then this can give rise to more side effects that vaginal use as there are more metabolic breakdown products from going through the digestive system and the liver.
You may also find that the dose of utro is not quite enough to protect the endometrium (womb lining) depending on how much for the 4 pumps you absorb. The higher the dose of oestrogen the more progesterone is needed but the Utrogestan dose is licensed to be the same whatever the dose of oestrogen - which is not right really!
Also depending on your age and stage of menopause you were at when you started the Femoston - if you are not yet at menopause then you may get sporadic bleeding if your cycle breaks through. Also in any case there is bleeding to be expected during the first 3-6 months on continuous HRT so do be prepared for that!
Plenty of time for tweaking. How you feel is vital as well as womb protection!
Hope it all works for you and you feel the benefits.
Hurdity x
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Hi,
I’m so sad 😞 I’ve now been on this new combination for 2 months and I seem to be going backwards. My private appointment (due to workload) has increased so won’t get to see anyone anytime soon.
I’ve searched and searched but unsure how I tweak the dosage?
To advise I’m on 4 pumps gel and daily utrogestan (taken vaginally when I can)
I’m so desperate for help I’m unsure where to turn. Can anyone offer any guidance if possible please?
Thank you 😕
Hi Hurdity,
Many thanks for your response. I’ve kept with same dosage of Utrogestan but have been taking vaginally so I think I’ll have to see how it goes. I’ve had to stop the vaginal eatrogen obviously but I can deal with that once I have the essential ones correct.
I did think I may still bleed so am prepared for that.
Apologies, didn’t give all the information, I’m 50, been peri menopausal for around 4 1/2 years. Had numerous health issues (some related the Menopause some not) so took another few years to finally get a diagnosed 🙄 been taking HRT for last 2 years.
Having to fight for particular items and work out your own dosage, when you’re feeling awful, is draining so additional help is needed for me now.
I’ve gone onto a waiting list to go privately so hopefully things resolve and settle soon for me and it’s been horrific.
Also hoping everyone reaching out gets the help/guidance required to feel better.
It’s great to have groups like this to help 😄
Many thanks.
Keli
Hi all. Hope you’re all well and had a good day today.
I’m so pleased I found this thread and have been reading through and would appreciate any thoughts if that’s ok?
I’ve been on 2 different types of HRT, last one being Femeston 2/10 for nearly 2 years and now have both gel and capsules as lots of symptoms were getting worse.
I use 4 pumps in the morning (1 on each limb) and Utrogestan x1 at bed time (everyday) and vaginal estrogen at bedtime too.
I’ve only been on it 15 days and although the utrogestan makes me extremely sleepy very quickly (which is absolutely fabulous being a rubbish sleeper!) and my sleep has deepened, but I do still wake (which I can cope with) but unfortunately I’m very heady when I wake and this last quite a while into the day and makes me feel awful.
As I’m only taking 1 capsule and I already use vaginal cream I’m unsure how/if I need to tweak or hang on in there.
Thank you 😊
Hi Keli
:welcomemm:
Sorry to hear about the utrogestan side effects. Unfortunately these are common side effects with utro - but if I were you I would give it a while longer to see if your body acclimatises to daily use and they settle. If you are taking it orally then this can give rise to more side effects that vaginal use as there are more metabolic breakdown products from going through the digestive system and the liver.
You may also find that the dose of utro is not quite enough to protect the endometrium (womb lining) depending on how much for the 4 pumps you absorb. The higher the dose of oestrogen the more progesterone is needed but the Utrogestan dose is licensed to be the same whatever the dose of oestrogen - which is not right really!
Also depending on your age and stage of menopause you were at when you started the Femoston - if you are not yet at menopause then you may get sporadic bleeding if your cycle breaks through. Also in any case there is bleeding to be expected during the first 3-6 months on continuous HRT so do be prepared for that!
Plenty of time for tweaking. How you feel is vital as well as womb protection!
Hope it all works for you and you feel the benefits.
Hurdity x
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Hi Keli
Sorry to hear you're feeling rough still. Why don't you start a new thread so that more people can help you?
Are you getting any bleeding? You could try taking the utrogestan cyclically so you would get a bleed each month but you would then not have the side effects of continuous progesterone.
What are the symptoms you are experiencing?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity,
I would start a new thread but unsure what I would call it? I’ll have a think.
And also have a look how I can do that.
Apologies I didn’t explain very well.
The continual progesterone isn’t causing the headaches anymore. I have only been taken for 2 months and have had 1 bleed as expected and discussed previously. I currently take 1 capsule per day.
My issue isn’t the bleeding but that the dosage clearly isn’t right as I’m actually feeling worse than when I started it with my horrendous menopause symptoms.
I dont feel by reducing the progesterone by half (sequential) that would improve my symptoms. I don’t think?
I’m unsure how I tweak the estrogel? I’m reluctant to increase it as my boobs are a little tender ( which I’ve heard is because of a fluctuation in estrogen)
My private appointment has now been delayed by 2 months and I’m already off work as am finding things difficult 😞
Thanks again for your reply I do appreciate your time.
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Hi I have been prescribed these HRT drugs via NHS. Are they as safe as they can be? I want something natural and not synthetic to take. Concerned that I might get a bleed which I don't want. Is there a progesterone gel? How do I know if I am on right dosage. No bloods done. I am 61. Was on HRT about 5 years ago but can't manage without something. Any advice welcome.
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What have you been prescribed?
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Hi Keli,
as Hurdity says , start a new post and call it - Problems with new HRT regime - help please!
Then write down in order what you are taking for how long. Your symptoms before HRT. Your symptoms with the new regime and explain how you feel awful. Is it physically , mentally- anxiety ? Be detailed - do you feel bad all day - part of day etc. Any good days . Why did you change regimes.
Then hopefully someone can make suggestions to help.
Best wishes PMXX
Hi Hurdity,
I would start a new thread but unsure what I would call it? I’ll have a think.
And also have a look how I can do that.
Apologies I didn’t explain very well.
The continual progesterone isn’t causing the headaches anymore. I have only been taken for 2 months and have had 1 bleed as expected and discussed previously. I currently take 1 capsule per day.
My issue isn’t the bleeding but that the dosage clearly isn’t right as I’m actually feeling worse than when I started it with my horrendous menopause symptoms.
I dont feel by reducing the progesterone by half (sequential) that would improve my symptoms. I don’t think?
I’m unsure how I tweak the estrogel? I’m reluctant to increase it as my boobs are a little tender ( which I’ve heard is because of a fluctuation in estrogen)
My private appointment has now been delayed by 2 months and I’m already off work as am finding things difficult 😞
Thanks again for your reply I do appreciate your time.
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Hi Pepperminty, thank you so much for your reply and the great advice.
I have now had my private appointment and they have changed and added some HRT so I gets crossed I fell better soon.
Thanks again for everyone’s help. :)
Hi Keli,
as Hurdity says , start a new post and call it - Problems with new HRT regime - help please!
Then write down in order what you are taking for how long. Your symptoms before HRT. Your symptoms with the new regime and explain how you feel awful. Is it physically , mentally- anxiety ? Be detailed - do you feel bad all day - part of day etc. Any good days . Why did you change regimes.
Then hopefully someone can make suggestions to help.
Best wishes PMXX
Hi Hurdity,
I would start a new thread but unsure what I would call it? I’ll have a think.
And also have a look how I can do that.
Apologies I didn’t explain very well.
The continual progesterone isn’t causing the headaches anymore. I have only been taken for 2 months and have had 1 bleed as expected and discussed previously. I currently take 1 capsule per day.
My issue isn’t the bleeding but that the dosage clearly isn’t right as I’m actually feeling worse than when I started it with my horrendous menopause symptoms.
I dont feel by reducing the progesterone by half (sequential) that would improve my symptoms. I don’t think?
I’m unsure how I tweak the estrogel? I’m reluctant to increase it as my boobs are a little tender ( which I’ve heard is because of a fluctuation in estrogen)
My private appointment has now been delayed by 2 months and I’m already off work as am finding things difficult 😞
Thanks again for your reply I do appreciate your time.
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Hi all!
I’m on this regime and struggling. Was on two pumps and as sensitive to progesterone I take two mini pills that are progesterone only. I didn’t have a major problem with flushes in as much as I wasn’t having lots. My problems were anxiety and sleep problems. The problem is I bleed almost constantly. Not always massive amounts but every day apart from three days for the last three weeks. Also a constant headache, sometimes taking me to my bed. I tried upping to 3 pumps of oestrogel but no difference and bleeding continues. I’ve tried patches, tablets and every kind of regime and seriously thinking of coming off altogether now as I don’t think it suits me. I always struggled with the combined pill and could only ever tolerate the mini pill as a younger woman. I’m nearly 52 now so theoretically should be nearing the end… 🤷♀️ Do I go cold Turkey or wean down? Thanks ladies
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Hi I’m on my first month of taking 2 pumps of Orstrogel daily continuously and 100mg of Ustrogestan Progrsterone. 1-25days.
Can someone clarify that I stop taking progesterone for 3 days? As it doesn’t actually say on my prescription
Thanks
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The 3 day break is to allow a bleed if there's been a build up. Once you know you won't bleed most people use it continuously. Are you a year without a bleed?
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Im perimenopausal, my periods are fairly irregular. I had a bleed on day 10 for 4 days
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You should be on a sequi regime as you're not meno yet, 200mg x 12 days (days 15-26 where the first day of your bleed is day 1). If you use a conti regime in peri you'll get breakthrough bleeding.
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So if I’ve already had a bleed do I keep taking it or have a 3 day break?
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Thankyou. But oh how annoying that my doctor has given me the wrong prescription. So should I stop the progesterone, for how long, and then take double the amount for 12 days?
Maybe I will call my doctor on Monday
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The prescription will be just about the same. When was the first day of your bleed? If it was recent I would stop the utro now and start again on day 15. If you're past day 15 perhaps continue til day 26. I wouldn't worry too much, as you have a cycle of your own you will bleed at some point and can synchronise with the hrt cycle then.
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The first day of my bleed was 15 days 6th Feb , and I am on day 26 of taking progesterone
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Not good timing! I think I would carry on with the current dose until day 26 then wait for your bleed.
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Thanks so much for your advice. I spoke to my GP who advised to stop progesterone for 14 days and then take 200mg for 14 days. Hopefully this will help to regulate my periods
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Hi All
I started this morning (3 pumps oestrogen, small pea size testosterone) and i felt light headed about an hour and half later. This scared me lol. I called the clinic and they said its not uncommon and this will settle.
How long did it take for you guys to work - i have anxiety/low mood/tearfulness badly xxxx
Vicky xx
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Hi everyone,
I'm 3 months in on this HRT journey. I am 2 years post menopausal. I am currently on 100mg continuous Utrogestan together with 2 pumps daily of Oestrogel.
Initially everything was great, my fuzzy brain lifted, my mood lifted and the night sweats disappeared however I have noticed as the weeks go on that i am feeling less well :( I have horrible heartburn especially at bedtime and I have a feeling in my tummy similar to what it felt like when your period was about due. I also have mild nausea which has affected my appetite. I am also getting fatigue mid morning and bad constipation. My sleep has improved a bit however I suffer from compressed discs in my neck so am never really without pain so this in itself make a good night sleep unattainable.
I have read that you can take Utrogestan vaginally and I'm seriously thinking of giving this a go to see if this will help with my returning symptoms. I have a few questions though.
1. If I am on continuous Utrogestan do I only take it every 2nd day vaginally due to it being absorbed more successfully than orally?
2. I use Vagifem 3 times a week, would I continue to take it?
3. I am worried that the lining of my uterus is thickening which is why I am having this feeling of a period beginning. Again I read that if your oestrogen and progesterone ratios are not correct it could mean the lining is still thickening when it shouldn't be, could that be the case?
Sorry for all the questions girls but this HRT melarkey is a minefield.
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Hi,
I’d try upping your oestrogel to three pumps.
I struggled with progesterone and switched to taking it vaginally but it didn’t really change much as I think I’m just progesterone intolerant.
I eventually ended up on 4 pumps along with the utrogestan and an anti depressant and this has ended up being the best course for me as I’m probably the best I’ve ever been for years.
It takes a while to get the dosage right so you do have to do a bit of a trial and error.
If you want to get your lining checked ask your doctor for a referral to get it checked put to give you peace of mind.
Good luck.
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Hi Katy
How did the 4 pumps end up working for you?, what were your symptoms that it got rid if and how long did it take?
Only asking because I'm on the same ... 4 pumps xx
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Hi - I couldn’t reply to your personal message because I haven’t posted 10 times yet!
It’s a bit weird for me because I am also taking an anti depressant to counteract what I think are the effects of the progesterone.
I had been off anti depressants for over a year before I started HRT and was fine. However when I started taking the HRT I actually went downhill and by the time I was three months in I was in a bad way with anxiety. With a bit of research I’ve put this down to me being progesterone intolerant (from the symptoms I’ve had all my life - terrible PMT, couldn’t take the pill and post natal depression). So I started taking my anti depressant again (smallest dose of sertraline) which has helped me to the point where I actually feel the best I have for a very long time.
Unfortunately because I started the anti d without trying other options of progesterone I won’t know if any of those would have worked.
I did start taking the progesterone vaginally every other day but not long enough to see if there was any change. The specialist I spoke to wasn’t a great fan of taking it that way - even though Dr Newson does advocate it.
So it may be worth just researching progesterone intolerance if the effects are causing you anxiety?
It is a minefield. 🤯
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How long have you been on sertraline 50mg?, I'm exactly 5 weeks.
I haven't tried the progesterone yet as I'm due to take that 1st April.
Do you think the oestrgel took away your anxiety too?, or just the sertraline?
Vic xx
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Hi - I’m new here so not sure how this all works. I’m 52 and started having hot flushes in the summer and excruciating joint pain that was so bad it would wake me up and I could barely move. I was put on HRT estrogel and progesterone for 12 days of the month. The flushes and pain went but my weight has rocketed and I mean soared. I’ve been going to the gym 6 days a week and cutting carbs, sugar and wine but nothing is helping.
The GP calls once a month and told me to halve my dose of gel (I was putting 2 pumps a day on so now down to 1 pump a day). The weight has stabilised but no amount of working out is shifting it (I need to lose 3 stone).
The problem I’m now having is incredibly sore tender breasts, so bad that when I turn over in the night the excruciating pain wakes me, it’s now spread to my left armpit. Terrible bruising burning pain. Wear high impact sports bra and have to cradle them when walking.
Please tell me I’m not alone as I’m ready to throw the gel in the bin as the pain in my boobs is that bad and also the weight gain I’ve gone from 12 stone to 15 and a half. Thankfully I’m tall but seriously that much weight???
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Can I ask a question please? I take utrogestan for 25 days and sandrena gel for 28 days as directed by my GP but I am wondering why I have to take the utrogestan for 3 days less.
Any ideas?
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Hi yam 900 The gel should be taken every day no break regardless if your Peri or post menopause the utrogestan should also be taken every day no breaks if your post menopause the 3 day break for utrogestan is out of date and would most likely lead to a bleed if your post menopause no period for 12 months then it's taken continuous hope this helps
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Julie55 That is most helpful. I am 10 years post menopausal and yes I do periodically have a bleed. :(
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Hi
Anybody help here?
Started my first utrogestan phase two nights ago and I wake with more anxiety than I already have. I took it by mouth first then vaginally. Same thing.
I'm on sertraline 100.g also x
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Hi im 57 and chqnged from kliofem conti to 100mg ultrogeston and 3 pumps of oestrogel ive felt great on this until last week i am bleeding so heavy the dr as suggested that i up my ultrogeston to 200mg ti see if bleeding stops i use them vaginally so i dont have the effects from them in the morning as anyone done this dosage and had a good result im a bit worried about inserting 2 tablets a night but if it worrks il do it
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Are you peri or meno? If peri you may be better on a sequi regime. If meno some people do have to use 200mg but you should have a scan to make sure nothing else is causing it such as fibroids.
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Hi sheila 99 im meno i had a scan and polyps removed in February so i know all is ok
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Hello,
I've been on hrt for about a year.
Estradot or Evorel 100 + Estradot or Evorel 25 x 2 per week; Utrogestan 200 x 12 days per month. Testosterone blob per day.
I'm very confused: I am on the 10th day of utrogestan 200 x2 and feeling very bloated, swollen and sore breasts, tearful and exhausted and generally feel bad. From day 7 of the utrogestan regime I began to feel not so great and since then have felt steadily worse. Sleep has got worse and increase in urinating.
Is this a reaction to Utrogestan or too much Oestrogen?!
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Sounds like utro to me. Only 2 more days of it now, if the ymptoms go soon you'll know. My fatigue lasts 2 days after utro ends.
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Definitely utrogestan - as per sheila99. I get all of that and especially the increase in urinating - I have to get up in the night to pee but when on oestrogen alone I don't have to.
Hurdity x
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Thank you Sheila99 and Hurdity for your replies. :) :)
Do you find your symptoms are manageable on Utrogestan? I have found increasingly the low mood and tearfulness is becoming difficult especially when trying to work.
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Yes I've been using it for 11 years. My symptoms are not as bad - ie I don't feel tearful - more foggy headed, lethargic, sometimes migraine, breast issues etc but because I take it on a longer cycle I have to endure this less often.
Hurdity x
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Thank you :)
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Mine is noticeably better on cycles where my body doesn't contribute. On these cycles symptoms are not as intense and for a shorter period of times (I'm OK til day 8) . Also on a 6 week cycle so I can cope with this.
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Hi all
I am hoping this is the right place to post this
I have been on Novofem sequential tablets for over 2 years but find I get quite depressed when the bleed is due, anxiety, some heavy bleeds etc and also gained over a stone in weight also very low libido
I had a review of HRT today and my GP suggested trying oestrogel 0.06% between 2-4 pumps a day and 100mg micronised progesterone (utrogestan) she said I can take the tablets continuously and if there is a lot of breakthrough bleeding then this will mean I am not ready to come off conti and it can be readjusted
I questioned this as am 51 and had regular periods when starting on HRT Jan 2019
Just wanted to ask for some advice about this on here
Also worried about weight gain, as I am already on HRT is it likely I will gain even more weight on the oestrogel?
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Hi again
Hope everyone is enjoying the bank holidays 😊
Just wondered if anyone with any experience of a similar situation was able to answer my above post
I would really appreciate some advice or opinions
As it is the Oestrogel is out of stock so it may be back to the drawing board but really did want to ask on here about it
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Hi it might be worth starting a new post so that more people see it . x
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Hi there Starshell
My experience has been for migraines (I knew it wouldn't work and has nothing to do with my cycles but was desperate:
2 false starts on Oestrogel and Utrogestan - I realised that the gel was making me feel as though I 'd had too much coffee, then when I started the Utrogestan on day 15 I got the sore boobs. My mood was horrendous so I stoppped. I tried again about a month later as it was clear that my referral for CGRP injections (for migraines) was not gonna happen until i had tried everything including HRT. the same thing happened so this time I was put on Evorel Sequi which was AMAZING. It lifted my mood and helped enormously with pain from Inflammatory Arthritis (autoimmune) but did nothing for the migraines.
I have posted on here a few times for help with transiotioning back to the gel and I keep mistakenly sayng I'd been in the patches for about 10/11 months but I counted the empties and it's only 8 packets.
So, about 3 packets ago I noticed I was getting regular periods (never had that in my life) and the sore boobs thing and very low mood. I thought the boobs would die down after period but they were almost unbearable all the time and I just felt like crap. So I did the research, it's probably the Utrogestan causing the symptoms but this can be reduced by taking vaginally.
SO! Since last week I am back on the Oestrogel and and will start the Utrogestan in a few days. HOWEVER - it is really obvious that it is the Oestrogel causing me to feel tired yet wired at the same time. Others describe exactly the same thing. this happened literally after the first pump. I took another the following morning and I couldn't stand it. So I skipped a day and for 2 days I have taken just half a pump at night.
My GP appointments are hit and miss and no one at the surgery really knows what they are talking about. So a while a go I made an appointment with the hrt specialist at my local sexual health clinic but that's not until August 8th. But I want to show that I have given it a go with the gel and tablets.
The infuriating thing is that along with the instant mood change and weird fatigue from the gel, I also get instant relief from a disease flare that I am having at the moment.
I had no peri symtpms to start with so maybe I am just getting too much with hrt, but the positives are very welcome.
I'm looking forward to my appointment so that I can come back on here and report back what the expert says.
good luck
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Thanks for your replies Me and Dotty
It’s a minefield isn’t it!
I’m due to go on Holiday next month and my last pack of Novofem will run out in the middle of the holidays I may just stop my HRT altogether then and see how I get on, especially if I can’t get the Oestrogel by then. I think it might be better to stop when I am off work and hopefully relaxed, I have a stressful job so really don’t want to be messing about with my HRT and trying to work at the same time
I hope you get on okay with the changes to your medication too 😊
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Hi All well I got my prescription now 😊 I’m now on day three and have noticed I am sleeping loads better and feel calmer
I started at the end of my Novofem pack so expecting a bleed but nothing as yet, I normally feel anxious and wound up at this stage of my cycle but although can feel those feelings starting I am able to control them better and stay calm. I am not sure if this would work so quickly so maybe just mind over matter at the moment but up to now all is good!
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Well I'm feeling a bit like I am back at square one again....
I'm 49, Peri, been on 3 pumps of Oestrogel daily with 14 nights of 200mg oral Utrogestan.
Started this regime at the start of 2021 to replace Femoston 2/10. Took a while to settle on it but definitely had a good run of months where I felt it was working well.
However over the Xmas period symptoms have started to creep back in...
Fatigue, headaches, migraines, hot (but not necessarily hot flushes), sleeping well but feeling just as exhausted on waking, fizzy anxious chest on waking and periodically throughout the day, aches and pains mainly in hips, left ribs and hands, palpitations...
I am under quite a bit of stress at the moment, well its been a couple of months really and wonder if this has brought things on or whether I need to reassess my dosage etc?
Any feedback would be great.
Thank you.
Ali x
Hello,
I know it was several months ago that you posted but was wondering how you got on? I seem to be in the same place at the moment. Was doing really well on hrt but palpitations, chest pain and anxiety are back with a bang and I feel as though I’m back at the beginning again.
I had an ecg and bloods last week but so far all seems to be ok.
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Hi it sounds like you need more oestrogen if symptoms have returned. Blood tests are unreliable and not needed over the age of 45.
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Thanks for your reply.
I wondered if it was due to hrt, oestrogen levels. Trouble is peri has triggered health anxiety so i find it hard to think rationally. I have been on 2 pumps a day for over a year now..
The bloods I had were just general fbc, ferritin levels etc as gp wanted to make sure they were all ok.
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Hi have no womb but have estrogen dominance. I went to a private clinic and was prescribed 100mf Utrogestan. To take every other day for a week then every day. Increase if needs be. The sensitive effect was great as I wasn’t sleeping. It also helped with the severe diarrhoea but as soon as I went to every night a got really bad depression and really bad thoughts all the following day till around 10 on the evening. That evening I didn’t take one and the following day was a good day. Fairly cheerful and wanting to do things and o was me again till the early evening when I think my continuous estrogen dominance anxiety etc comes back.Tried again to see what happened same thing. Spoke with clinic during one of these depression episodes to another GP she is suggesting reducing estrogen doesn’t sound like she believes in estrogen dominance ( it worries me that GP from same well known clinic have varying beliefs ) and trying histamine diet also has put me androgen. I have tried testosterone previously and after 2 months I had an itchy skin and a small number of small white blebs and small number of little red spots. Blood tests showed an tiny increase in red blood count that none of their GPs are worried about. I am! I am really really scared now that I’m not going to find a way through this. My estrogen anxiety is through the roof all day and night. Joint pain back pain really dry skin. I’m just asking a question again I think. If I took Utrogestan vaginally would the dose be the same. It just seem weird that the following day I was cheerful. Thought if perhaps there’s a way of getting a lower dose I could perhaps tolerate it. I suspect not. Bad thoughts again 😭
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Original meno symptoms were severe muscle spasms at or when trying to relax. Made my whole body jolt. Twitchy muscles arms n legs jumping. Not restless legs!! These have gone with Estradot 100. You can see perhaps why I don’t want to reduce my latch as they do come back at 75mg. Even if I cut around a fifth off the patch I get littl spasms
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Can someone explain my body. I don't understand it myself.
I take one sachet of Sandrena gel and one Utrogestan pill continually but still get intermittent bleeds that last the odd day or two and a few days before get breast tenderness which stops shortly after I bleed. I thought if I took both pills continually I wouldn't bleed.
I've tried coming off them completely but the reasons I take them in the first place come flooding back.
I am 12 years post menopause so shouldn't have much in the way of my own hormones left.
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Hi Yam900
I have tried continuous Oestrogel and Utrogesterone tabs and like yourself have intermittent bleeding- after trying for over12 months I gave up ….and now use 1 x pump gel every night and 2 x 100g Utro tabs vaginally on days 14-25 I then get a regular bleed for 5-6 days at least this way I know when I will get a bleed -
I don’t know why continuous dosnt work for me either ?
I’m 62 and been on HRT since 57
Hope this helps x
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Hi Yam900
I have tried continuous Oestrogel and Utrogesterone tabs and like yourself have intermittent bleeding- after trying for over12 months I gave up ….and now use 1 x pump gel every night and 2 x 100g Utro tabs vaginally on days 14-25 I then get a regular bleed for 5-6 days at least this way I know when I will get a bleed -
I don’t know why continuous dosnt work for me either ?
I’m 62 and been on HRT since 57
Hope this helps x
It does help thank you. I would have thought the most sensible way of taking them would have been to take the Sandrena gel for the first 14 days and just the utrogesterone for the following 14 days. Therefore creating a more 'natural' cycle. I haven't been brave enough to try it even so.
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It's the oestrogen that controls your symptoms so if you stop it for a fortnight they are likely to return. You could try using utro vaginally as more will get to the womb that way, or doubling the dose or trying a different progestin such as provera. A mirena is the best at sorting out problem bleeding. Or you could try using utro with a 3 day break per cycle. It's usually used in late peri but allows a bleed if there's been a build up.
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Just after some thoughts. At a gynae appointment on Monday I was advised to carry on with 100mg Utrogestan and estrogel regime but to possibly try the Utrogestan vaginally.
Bit uncertain whether to use this continuous for age 56 and the odd period now and then still or for a break of vaginally?
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Another option would be to use it for 25 days out of 28. This can be useful in late peri as it allows a bleed if there's been a build up.
Using a sequi or conti regime now is probably personal preference, if you want a predictable bleed use sequi, if you'd rather not have a monthly bleed use conti and accept there will be breakthrough bleeding from time to time.
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Yes I like the sound of using it 25/28 days as I am definitely in late peri. I don't really want a monthly bleed at all, but happy to have the odd one now and then!! Hopefully not much more of this now at 56... :o
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Hi :)
I’ve been on 3 pumps Oestrogel and cyclical Utrogestan. Now on cycle 23. Symptoms began to return: cyclical depression (occasionally), recurring UTI, vaginal dryness, insomnia, tearfulness, high anxiety, night sweats and (not sure if HRT related as I’ve had migraines for many years) awful migraines, including a recent hemiplegic one and continuous one for 4 weeks.
GP upped Oestrogel to 4 pumps and suggested I switch to continuous Utrogestan at 100mg per night. I didn’t bleed last cycle and I’m not sure when to begin continuous, I’m currently on night 5 of Utrogestan.
I asked for referral to menopause clinic but she said no need to because she can try different oral HRT. I told her I have migraines with aura so need to stay on transdermal. I was offered antidepressants, I’d rather see what I’m like on right amount of HRT because it was controlled when first started it.
Any thoughts?
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There's a good chance 4 pumps will cure your symptoms so I'd stick to this for the next 3 months to see. Perhaps see if you bleed this time, have a break for 5 days then continue on 100mg conti. You could use it for 28/28 to start with as this allowsa bleed if there'sbedn a build up. You may find you need topical oestrogen for VA too, hrt doesn't always control it.
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Thanks Sheila,
I really hope the increase does sort out the symptoms. I’ll do that.
Could I ask what 28/28 means, sorry I’ve not got a clear head.
I’ll see if systemic increases resolves dryness and VA and if not I’ll request topical.
Thanks very much :)
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Hi I have been given Utrogestan and Oestrogel as I have been having panic attacks, Hot flushes and sleepless nights and irregular periods so was told to take the Utrogestan for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off with the 2 pumps of Oestrogel. The first night I took it I woke up with really cold hands and feet and felt dizzy, and my face was burning
I cant get another appointment with my doctor for a few weeks and not sure to carry on with the HRT ?
Any help would be appreciated
Also am I supposed to use the Oestrogel everyday or just when I take the Utrogestan
Very confused
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Hi Shopping22,
Sorry to hear about your situation with Utrogestan and Oestrogel. Is this your first HRT treatment? You are at peri menopause stage if you have an irregular period.
How long have you been taking the regime? It sounds like you have just started the oestrogel and not got to the 3rd week when you start taking utrogestan?
The regime suggested for people at peri is as you've been advised so it maybe that you have an allergic reaction OR it maybe that you need to give it more time. I'm on oestrogel and utrogestan and haven't had symptoms like yours. I can't give advise but suggest reading these 2 posts to give you a bit more info on possible causes ahead of seeing doctor.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,51309.msg790768.html#msg790768
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=37825.0
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,58973.msg829663.html#msg829663
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Hi Wannabewell.
I have some symptoms similar to you and just posted this today. I don't have answers but maybe some comparable info that might be useful. I was really against using anti-depressants as I actually thought I wasn't depressed. Late last November I ended up going on mirtazapine to help with sleep. It's been brilliant and I wish I'd gone on it sooner
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65067.msg898210.html#msg898210
HISTORY
Age. 53
Started HRT. Dec 2017
HRT Treatment Evorel 25(2 month), Fem 2/10 (4.5 years). Oestrogel (2 to 3 pumps) and Utrogestan 100g (16 days)
Oct 22 Symptoms: low energy, low mood, slow brain, apathy, tight breathing (couldn't yawn properly for 1 day).
Symptoms 2017: Brain fog, fatigue, low mood, low energy, apathy, awful period cramps for up to 5 hours 1 day during period.
Menopause stage. Think I'm still peri.
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Hi Lily,
Thanks for the link, I’ve just had a look. It’s good to hear about your positive experience with the antidepressant. I’m going to see how I do on four pumps fo a few months and see how I am. Definitely one day at a time isn’t it.
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I am 53 and peri. On 5th month of oestrogel (went from 2 to 3 pumps at three month review) and 12 days on/off of utrogestan. Still exhausted, disengaged with everything, brain fogged and feeling just 'wrong.' I am trying to keep going and involved with life but................... Is this normal? I hope to start feeling better soon.
And I hope you all feel the benefits soon too xx
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And I am now seeing the pattern of the first few days on the utrogestan leaving me absolutely fatigued. Knackered like nothing else. I'm going to give it one more cycle and then go back to the GP. I feel as if I am dragging myself around today
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Today I've read an article in the times, Sat 23rd September - in the Body + Soul section. Apparently there has been a lot of research and now NICE are about to approve new medication and treatments which may be of interest to those who suffer. Hormonal shifts, particularly oestrogen, are mentioned which has to be a plus.
Oral Migrane drug - Rimegepant [Vydura] for acute individual migraine attacks.
Previously an injection it's now a wafer that dissolved under the tongue. Initially availability may be restricted but is accessible privately - no surprise there then >:( - the article, by a sufferer Peta Bee, includes other suggestions to control symptoms.
migrainetrust.org
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Hello ladies, I was wondering if anyone can help me. I am perimenopausal, 53, been on Oestrogen and Utrogestan (12 days per month) for the past 4 years. I'm sorry if this question sounds a bit thick, but will my periods naturally stop on this regime? I am currently on day 56 from the start of my last period, the latest I've ever been, with only a 'showing' here and there, and the past week what seems like the results of the lining being discharged (sorry to be so descriptive). Is this normal does anyone know or should I visit my doctor? Many thanks 🙂
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As you have been on this regime for a while and bleeds are starting to slow down, you could go on continuous regime.
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Thank you Pater01
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Hi ladies
I am on Utrogestan 100mg and x4 pumps of oestrogel daily, slight improvement to my bone density 2 years on, i do not have menopausal symptoms as such but am experiencing a lot of anxiety since starting HRT, is anyone else on the same regime experiencing anxiety? My consultant has increased utrogestan to 200mg last week.
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Hi AJ1988
Sorry to hear about your anxiety. Some women experience ongoing symptoms like this when taking a progestogen every day so this could be a potential cause. So do you feel otherwise well ie flushes and sweats banished? Also do you take the utrogestan orally? There can be fewer side effects when taken vaginally though most women would not take it like this on a continuous basis, (there may be some?) but usually cyclically.
Has your progesterone dose been increased due to bleeding or thickened lining? Will be interesting to see how you feel on a higher dose....
Hurdity x
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Hi, thank you for your reply sorry for the delay I have only just logged back In.
The consultant increased the utrogestanto 200mg at night, she increased this due to spotting which has Not made any difference at all, my anxiety has slightly improved, as for hot flushes etc I don’t get “typical” menopause symptoms anyway as I’m not peri menopausal - I am on hrt for my bones.
Does anyone experience hair loss with the gel? Or hrt in general? I have found since being on hrt that my hair and nails are in terrible condition. Thank you x
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Hi AJ1988
Oestrogen should help with hair though taking it exogenously (from outside the body) may have a different effect from our own oestrogen). Some progestogens lead to hair loss but usually the more androgenic synthetic ones like norethisterone. Hair loss and hormones is a complex issue with many factors at play.
Also if you're not peri-menopausal it's difficult to say. Are you saying you were having regular periods before starting HRT? If you're not peri and would be menstruating normally if you weren't on HRT then you would expect to have spotting or bleeding despite taking continuous progesterone (100 mg) because your own cycle would be going on in the background. Is there any reason why you don't take it cyclically to being on a regular bleed?
Have you had other blood tests eg thyroid function, vitamins and minerals etc because hair loss and poor nails can be due to other factors?
Hurdity x
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Hi Ladies, I wonder if you can offer me some advice please? I've been on HRT for a few years now (I'm 54). I changed from Evorel Sequi to 100mg Utrogestan and 2 pumps of Estrogel continuous 7 months ago. I take the 100mg Utrogestan orally every evening before bed and sleep like a baby! I've never been a good sleeper so this is heaven sent for me, even though I do wake up really tired.
Around month 5 of the new regime I developed really sore boobs. They go from tender, to painful, they feel fuller/more dense if that makes sense. They seem to be more tender when I wake up, than later in the day.
I thought it may be the estrogel so went down to 1.5 pumps but found that the hot flushes, night sweats started again and I was really forgetful, so I've gone back to 2 pumps.
I was wondering if it might be the Utro causing the tenderness? Would taking it vaginally help do you think? I really don't want to stop this regime as i'm feeling better than I did on the patches.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
With thanks
x
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hi,
I had the same experience when i first started the gel, my boobs felt heavy and very tender, it did ease off after 2 weeks or so, i think its the gel not the utro but i could be wrong x
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Hi there been on HRT for 2 years periods ended 2 years ago has initially bad night sweats low mood etc. Ive been on 2 pumps or gel and 1 utrogestan pill (1 pump on each thigh in the morning and pill at night). Had HRT review today night sweats stopped instantly as soon as I started 2 years ago. Mentioned some days energy is low occasional moodieness and doctor suggested increasing to 3 pumps and 2 x utrogetsan pills at night - just wondered thoughts on this - i'm feeling im doing not too bad bar the lethargic days - doctor said an extra pump might help energy levels - but then it would be another utrogestan pill every day too - i take pill continuously.
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Hello ladies.
I'm new here and to HRT and hopefully to get some answers please.
I'm 49 in peri. Few months ago doctor started me on progesterone 200mcg day 14 to 28 to regulate my periods. After starting that my bleed would start while still taking progesterone and last for many days very light though. I was always confused not knowing if I should stop progesterone or continue for the 14 days?
Just recently I went back as the sleeping issues continued( I can fall asleep but up at 4am) and I started having some night sweats etc. He gave me the estrogen patch low dose 25mcg. So with that I finished my progesterone 10 days ago and no bleed. I know its my first month and things should regulate. Do I start progesterone again 14 days after my last dose even if no period? If my period starts now do I count it as day 1 and start in 14 days? Not sure if the patches are too low but he was very hesitant to prescribe as I'm still cycling on my own.
Thank you so much !
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I’ve been on Utrogesten ( 12 on 16 off) and estrogel for years . My bleed has always been insignificant. But this month has been fairly heavy for me . I have been using fresh turmeric and ginger shots daily - not huge amounts ( 200g ginger & 50g turmeric juiced lasts at least 10 days ) I’m wondering if the turmeric would be causing the change in bleed ?