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[CLKD]

Get out of bed and get going.  Once the adrenaline begins to flow you will feel better.  I used to hug the duvet but found that by getting out and pottering helped a lot.  Even if it's making a cuppa and toast then standing to watch the birds on the feeders.  As long as I have my long-distance glasses that is 

[GypsyRoseLee]

I can completely sympathise with how you feel. I was exactly the same a few years ago, and I can still easily remember how dreadful it all is. In the end I had to go high on oestrogen (4 pumps daily) and very low on progesterone (only 100mg for 7 days per month) + 100mg of sertraline a day. But it took months before I could count on feeling reliably stable for more than 2 weeks at a time. It was very much one step forward, two steps back. But these last 2 years I have been going several months of feeling like my old self.

What current dosage are you on?

[Redlocks]

Thank you GypsyRoseLee
Happy New Year! I know, the feeling of disappointment when you have several stable months and then feel like you're back at square 1 is hard to bear But I reckon recovery isn't a straight line.
I was originally on 100mcg Estradot patch (change twice a week) and 100mg Utrogestan tablets orally for 21 days out of each 28 day cycle, and I've currently been on that dose for the last 4 weeks or so after being on 200mg of Utrogestan for 21 days of my cycle. I think that was too much progesterone for me?!
I'm also on 40mg fluoxetine but that hasn't been controlling my symptoms since I adjusted my dose of hormones. Is HRT stronger than antidepressants?
X

[squeaker99]

Hi Redlocks. When I get caught in anxiety loops I try and remember a cartoon that was on
a Headspace meditation App. It  gets you to see your ' thoughts' as what they are (a chemical loop)
and the fact we get caught up in them that 'fuel' the anxiety chemical responses.

Basically all your thoughts are just like traffic on a busy road going back and forth. You are the person sitting by the road just watching them.Sometimes the traffic is busy and noisy, sometimes lighter - but you are not the traffic and you never follow the
traffic - just pull back and sit and watch it go past.

Another way of doing this is to make yourself look at things in detail or listen to sounds - just for a few minutes. It sometimes gives your manic brain a tiny rest. Even just put the Radio on super loud and force yourself to listen to it.

I find this a lot easier to do if I am in a good place hormonally and not so easy at 3am when I am panicking about something and
my cortisol is ranging.

Sorry if this sounds like complete pap. Just to say it is really difficult and sometimes you have to fight to do anything to get out of the hormonal downs.

[CLKD]

Sadly the anxiety hits without any thought patterns  I am floored almost instantly.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Redlocks

In my research and experience, the women who suffer mainly with the awful anxiety and depression during peri menopause (like us) are the ones most intolerant to progesterone. We've always been intolerant which is why we likely suffered with PMS and PND. But in peri it gets so much worse. It is a very serious, very real intolerance which can lead to suicidal ideation and anhedonia.

I would suspect that you are still on far too much progesterone for your body to tolerate, hence the awful panic etc. For reference, I only take 100mg of Utrogestan for just 7 days per month - but I take 4 pumps of oestrogel per day which = 100mg patch. My withdrawal bleeds are nice and light, and I have yearly utertine scans to check my womb lining, which is fine.

Prof Studd explained to me that women like us need more oestrogen than most, balanced with minimal progesterone, in order to feel good.

Could you ask your GP about reducing your Utrogestan to this low level?

[Jeepers]

Hi Redlocks

I don't have any wise words or advice, but just wanted to say I totally understand that feeling of not being able to move from your bed. I've just managed to get up  now, and looking around my house, it's awful, I can't seem to get to grips with it

I hope you start to feel better soon

Thinking of you

Jeepers xx

[Redlocks]

Hello squeaker99,
Happy New Year! What you said was very helpful, and I get what you mean when you say it's easier to distract yourself when you are not in such a bad place! I find it easy to switch off...when I'm already switched off! But you're right, even a few minutes of ‘brain rest' can help.
I wonder if chemicals can actually cause thoughts? With mental health they say to change your thoughts, think positive etc., but could that be as useless as telling someone to stop bleeding if they have a cut? I find that whenever I'm in a bad way it's as if part of my brain is spitting out terrifying thoughts non-stop and I feel I've lost control of it. Sometimes these thoughts don't even make any sense and I know that but cannot stop.
X

[Redlocks]

Hello GypsyRoseLee!
The loss of pleasure is the absolute worst
When I spoke to Dr Panay he said that if you are progesterone intolerant then it's apparent fairly quickly, which wasn't the case for me. When I reduced the 100mg of utrogestan from 21 days to 10 days each cycle I became very ill, suffering extreme agitation and panic.
But he said that he suspects the 200mg is too much for me. My symptoms are very similar to when I lowered the dose, but when that happened I found I could get some relief from lorazepam which didn't make me out of it but enabled me to carry on almost as if nothing had happened until I levelled out again. This time, whenever I've taken a lorazepam it's not really helped as much and I've not had the same dramatic relief, so I think it's interacted with the increased progesterone. Last time I had so much energy that I was agitated, and this time I've not really had any energy but have still been extremely anxious and panicky.
Sorry for the long post, but it's really helpful to chat to you guys and I'm able to journal my experiences.
PS: I replied to you on the other thread as well
X

[squeaker99]

Redlocks. I was good to hear you say that. I have had a relatively good few months mentally, Christmas was fine. The last week I feel like I am a different person. On red alert, taking my pulse every 10 minutes, feeling my heartbeat, twitchy. I just want to go to A & E and have someone tell me everything is OK so I can just get on with life.   I have had a few nights rough, tossing and turning sleep but even though I know that when you are tired you worry more I can't get my brain to do any of the things I tell others to do.  Is it purely that I have less to distract myself.? Or the weather and not getting outside? Or spending too much time on the forum picking up worries?! Or just a hormonal shift? I know in my 30s and early 40s I never felt like this and it is crappy.

[Redlocks]

Birdy, how are you getting on? It sounds like we have both experienced how our bodies react to too much and too little progesterone -finding a balance is so hard.
By the way what's DIM?
X

[Redlocks]

squeaker99, I always find it's so much easier to give advice than follow it!
You said you had a few good months so has anything changed recently? Did you adjust your HRT? If so, when was that? Dr Panay told me that sometimes it takes a while for us to ‘feel' changes in hormones so you could be having a delayed reaction.
I may be feeling bad now, but I have to remember that when I last experienced a depressive episode like this I had a month where I felt I was really improving, and then I was at rock bottom again the following month and I was devastated. It was slow but I did recover - the ups and downs are exhausting but I think they are part of recovery.
X

[Redlocks]

Jeepers, thanks so much for your kind words. I'm very impatient and I think we all want solutions and quick fixes, especially if we have been suffering for a long time, but having support and lovely sympathetic people to chat to is so important and I am extremely grateful
How are you today?
X
 

[Ladybt28]

The dips are very hard but I don't think that for those of us who have had a rough meno journey, they ever go completely.  Things even out and we feel ok for a while and then everything goes up the left again for a while.  In the early days its a bit scary because you think that was the end of the good time and its never coming back but I found as you go on you realise that the periods of "good" do come back.  I have had to change my thinking around it which is really hard to do because when you have been bad for nearly all your life and then you get to feel ok, you think its a fluke and get disappointed.
But for me the dips do pass and now I know they pass when they come they feel rubbish but my head doesn't go into overdrive thinking that my life is over!  Its a huge re-education.  What I would caution is messing with your hrt when you feel rubbish...that really doesn't help!  In my experience, its the acceptance and trust that it will pass that has helped.

I'm impatient too Redlocks - I was at this 6 years before I got the right hrt (and 20 years of undiagnosed hormonal issues) and then it took 7 months for it to settle so I had periods of "well".  Patience is the name of the game unfortunately for some of us......and tonnes of perseverance but as you all know I have posted before, there is hope, because I found it after about 20 years. xxx

[GypsyRoseLee]

Agree about trying really hard to accept that blips happen, and trying not to panic that it won't ever go away. I am the Panic Queen each time a blip hits, convinced I will stay like it forever. I just can't seem to reason my way out of it.

Since finally getting into the right HRT and dose 3.5 years ago, I bet I've struggled through 12-14 blips, each lasting between 1 - 3 weeks. Some were really severe, though never quite as bad as before HRT.

My blips happen almost instantaneously. This latest time I was relaxing on the sofa feeling great. Then I reached over to my cup of coffee, and in the time it took to pick it up and bring it to my lips the nasty anxiety/dread hit! Really that fast. I've never come across anyone else who gets it like that?

What I find really, really helps is to keep a log of these blips, and a detailed list of symptoms and (most importantly) when they started and When. They. Stopped. So far, mine have always stopped.