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[racjen]

Her name is Monica Lascar. I was slagging her off on Monday for not replying to my email but after talking to her today I realise she knows more than I gave her credit for.
I thought you said that you weren't intolerant of progesterone racjen?
She also said ultrogestan 100 is a low dose and it wears off quickly.
Too much progesterone can create dark moods but in that case reduce your dose.
I agree getting a good night's sleep seems completely out of reach, and being advised to do things you've already tried is frustrating.
I had about 50 minutes each night for two weeks recently. I was throwing up with exhaustion.
Pepperminty, I agree. You've got to throw everything at it.
She also said brain fog is caused by low oestrogen. That's it.
So here's praying mine is caused by anxiety because my oestrogen is high.

To be honest Birdy, I'm not sure I really understand what does and doesn't constitute progesterone intolerance anymore - feeling very confused. There are some women on here who get severe migraines during their progesterone phase so that's pretty obvious, but most of us seem to find taking progesterone problematic in some way or other, so I'm not sure where that becomes intolerance? I had 3 months off progesterone to see whether it was causing my intense anxiety, and it made no difference at all; however I do find that I can't get through more than 8 or 9 days of 100mg Utrogestan without becoming very depressed, also right from the start it gives me constant stomachache, and that's taking it vaginally. I certainly couldn't cope with 200mg, I've tried and felt absolutely terrible. Does that make me intolerant, or is it just that progesterone is a tricky hormone? On the other hand, I'm convinced that I do need some to feel OK - over the 3 months of unopposed estrogen I've been feeling more and more depressed and my anxiety has become more generalised, culminating in two days hiding from the world in bed this week (which has never happened before). Today, on my 2nd day of 100mg Utrogestan I felt normal enough to drive the 50 mile round trip to visit my brother and get a bit of sea at Sidmouth. So for me it clearly has its place; as others on here have suggested I think I need to look more at the type and dose of estrogen I'm taking, which no so-called professional has questioned so far....

[Conolly]

Hello racjen,

I thought you might find this interesting https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/88/5/2026/2845216

Conolly X

[Perinowpost]

That's exactly what happens to me Racjen I feel better on days 1-4/5 of Utrogestan and then I hit a wall and struggle to get though the last few days. I especially feel worse as it withdraws from my system and then I feel better for the rest of the month. I follow this pattern every month. Whether it's progesterone intolerance or not is difficult to say as I always feel I need just a little bit but any more and I suffer; what makes it worse is conventional hrt doesn't seem to allow for this, I,e., women who are particularly sensitive, and only offers a one size fits all (a bit like M&S jeans) which of course doesn't help those in the minority.

Also, to pick up on Connolly's post I agree high levels of oestrogen (or too high) creates problems in itself. Could you experiment with decreasing your dose I.e,. cut a patch in half, or even leave one off  and see how you feel?x

[racjen]

I think the point here racjen is that 'everything' seems to make you depressed.  Which is not to be expected.  These reactions really needs to be addressed ....... what many 'experts' [how I HATE that word  ] do not believe is that there are several forms of depression.

I have organic depression because my brain for many years lacked serotonin [ probably ] certainly something made me very ill  ....... but correct medication eased symptoms and I have to take it for Life.  I also have clinical depression - which many people suffer with when they are unable to alter the situation that they find themselves in.  I can tell the difference in my brain.  Also, I feel depressed in my temples but no one has ever asked where it is situated.  Add to that anxiety from the age of 3 and I'm quite a mess sometimes.  Again, medication helps.

Maybe your medics are completely on the wrong tack  - maybe your medics should work from the brain downwards?  Medication that is designed to ease depression should not make a person suicidal.  Or more depressed.  Maybe read my thread, 'my depression' and see if anything clicks with you.  Start from the top down .......... get a dietician on board in case you lack vitamins etc..  Sit in the sunshine when you are able to drag out of bed.

CLKD, I  have to take issue with your statement that medication designed to ease depression shouldn't make you suicidal. There is a warning in every pack of anti-depressants that, for a small minority of people, there is the risk that they will make your depression worse, cause suicidal ideation and at worst suicide itself. This risk is worse in teenagers, but it is widely recognised that psychotropic drugs of all kinds can worsen depression and increase the risk of suicide in vulnerable individuals. Equally there are some people for whom they just don't work, they don't have a negative effect - they just don't work. It's all to do with individual brain chemistry.

[Tc]

Racjen
I found this happened to me every time I took ssris for the first few weeks. It's the reason I won't risk them at the moment I've seriously been effected in this way by my hormones crashing and not being at all  sorted on hrt yet without throwing prozac in the mix.

I simply cannot risk that first few weeks even though I know I need something as I'm going through the worst anxiety depression I've ever had .

I told my psychiatrist I won't risk it as I've already had some very dark intrusive thoughts in the last few months since my op. He said it's time for medication but he agreed about the risk.
He suggested WELLBUTRIN. And said  he would prescribe it but then I had a call from his secretary saying he had changed his mind. Ive got to speak to him on Monday so I don't know why yet.
X.

[Ladybt28]

Hello racjen Nice to see you back with us and I am so glad you felt well enough to go to your brothers.
I agree from what you have said that progesterone does have place in your regime.  The question is how much and what type.
I found that I needed my utro to settle into a proper cycle.  The first month I took it vaginally (I have never taken it orally I wouldn't risk it because of the bad experience I had with Provera which is oral) I could almost feel it tingling inside me and a sort of soreness but I just ignored it.
The next thing I learnt another 2 months was I couldn't manage the 12 days I was supposed to take it.  So dropped to 10 days and now know I am going to drop to 7. 

Personally, you mention intolerance but obviously there are stages.  I am never going to be so intolerant my body rejects it altogether but I am definitely not a lady who can take it continously nor for the normally prescribed time.  In 7 months I have learned 7-10 days would be the very max I could manage.

As I have said before, the one constant theme, throughout your journey which has not changed is everol patches and that has been since 2016 when you had your treatment.  These just may be wrong for you, I couldnt use them.  It have no idea why but I couldn't they didn't touch my insomnia or my anxiety one bit.  I would suggest that you stick to the utro for a bit longer on the shortest cycle 7-10 days and then talk about changing your oestrogen from everol.  Personally if it was me I would discuss that aspect of your problems with Dr Currie or someone else who maybe does telephone consults. Defo not that idiot man in Poole    Birdh talks about low oestrogen and although you have tried higher doses of everol they haven't which just suggests to me it could be evoral itself.

It seems that althogh GP's and consultants think oestrogen is oestrogen, in whatever make they prescribe, we know on the forum that each of use reacts differently to different oestrogen products.  You may have to try some different oestrogen products to find one that suits or if any suit but you wont know until you try.  And you must find a consultant who knows their stuff to help you do that.  I know you cant afford major expense what with the job etc so Dr Currie seems a good place to start. 

I just wish there was something I could do to help you feel better  XXXXX

[NorthArm]

Hi Racjen

I really hope you're having a bit better day today xx

When I said before about having a good bleed on the regime I'm on, what I meant was is that it's a good clean out.

Years ago, on the OCP, it did nothing for my periods. Pre OCP, my period was very heavy and flooding. On the OCP, it was very heavy, flooding, clotting and painful. And I was on that particular one for five years. So having a good bleed for me means that I'm not flooding, it's not clotting and there's no pain. Just a good bleed.

I'm just curious if you had pmt before your op? Apparently those ladies that suffered bad pmt (I did) might also suffer really badly at meno too. Premenstrual dysphoric disorder they call it, and I suffered that my whole reproductive life - it got worse as I got older. It signals poor reaction to fluctuating progesterone, got even worse in the year before meno, and post men I was feeling like that all the time 🙁 But I'm much better on this regime xx

Anyway, I really hope you find some answers soon, big hugs xx

[racjen]

Hello racjen Nice to see you back with us and I am so glad you felt well enough to go to your brothers.
I agree from what you have said that progesterone does have place in your regime.  The question is how much and what type.
I found that I needed my utro to settle into a proper cycle.  The first month I took it vaginally (I have never taken it orally I wouldn't risk it because of the bad experience I had with Provera which is oral) I could almost feel it tingling inside me and a sort of soreness but I just ignored it.
The next thing I learnt another 2 months was I couldn't manage the 12 days I was supposed to take it.  So dropped to 10 days and now know I am going to drop to 7. 

Personally, you mention intolerance but obviously there are stages.  I am never going to be so intolerant my body rejects it altogether but I am definitely not a lady who can take it continously nor for the normally prescribed time.  In 7 months I have learned 7-10 days would be the very max I could manage.

As I have said before, the one constant theme, throughout your journey which has not changed is everol patches and that has been since 2016 when you had your treatment.  These just may be wrong for you, I couldnt use them.  It have no idea why but I couldn't they didn't touch my insomnia or my anxiety one bit.  I would suggest that you stick to the utro for a bit longer on the shortest cycle 7-10 days and then talk about changing your oestrogen from everol.  Personally if it was me I would discuss that aspect of your problems with Dr Currie or someone else who maybe does telephone consults. Defo not that idiot man in Poole    Birdh talks about low oestrogen and although you have tried higher doses of everol they haven't which just suggests to me it could be evoral itself.

It seems that althogh GP's and consultants think oestrogen is oestrogen, in whatever make they prescribe, we know on the forum that each of use reacts differently to different oestrogen products.  You may have to try some different oestrogen products to find one that suits or if any suit but you wont know until you try.  And you must find a consultant who knows their stuff to help you do that.  I know you cant afford major expense what with the job etc so Dr Currie seems a good place to start. 

I just wish there was something I could do to help you feel better  XXXXX

I emailed Dr. Currie and she maintains that there should be absolutely no difference between Evorel patches and Estrogel, because they contain exactly the same thing. And yet many women's experience on here would seem to contradict that....I'm going to ask my GP for some Estrogel and give it a try anyway, also I want to try Provera as there's no way I'm taking utrogestan anymore - 7 days on 100mg has me ready to top myself, I can't cope with that every bloody month.

NorthArm, yes I did suffer from PMT, although not severely - I don't think it was worse than many other women's. I had an episode of this same anxiety and depression when I was peri (at 45) which I think is highly relevant as I'd never suffered anything like it before.

[NorthArm]

Racjen, that could be entirely relevant. The episode you describe was me, most months, for two weeks every month 🙁, for my whole productive life. With rage too 🙁🙁.

Stupidly, I thought with meno, I'd feel like I used to for the first two weeks after my period - calm, relaxed, normal....But no, it's been like the worst pmt I've ever had, pretty much 24/7 🙁🙁. Now I know, I'm educating my daughter...

So, for me, if the Mirena doesn't work (I'm having one inserted soon), I'm going to insist on a total hysterectomy - ovaries, the lot! It couldn't make me feel any worse, and the life I'm living isn't a life...

I find work helps - I get to have ‘people time', and it lifts me out of my head if you know what I mean.

I know you're not working at the moment (and SHAME on your employer - it's actually illegal to do that in Australia), but in the meantime, would you maybe be able to do some voluntary work? Maybe in a charity shop, or an aged care home? At least it would give you some human interaction, and a reason to get up and out?

You have gone through so much recently, I really feel for you xxx

[racjen]

I don't think any employer can be expected to hang on to a worker who's been off continuously for a whole year and can't give any indication of when they might be coming back. I was working in the public sector, for the library service, and their sickness policy was pretty generous - don't forget I'd already had 8 months off the previous year for cancer treatment. I don't have a problem with them, they're struggling to keep libraries open here as it is due to lack of govt funding.

To be honest if I could do voluntary work I could do a paid job, even if very part time - at the moment I couldn't guarantee to be able to turn up from one day to the next, and it would become a source of pressure which I really can't cope with. For now I just have to take each day as it comes....

[Perinowpost]

Hi again Racjen

Re your email to Doctor Currie about estrogel/evorel although she is technically correct that they are the same thing, they are delivered by different methods.  And crucially no one can predict how we react individually to different delivery methods (as I found out).  I trialled estrogel as I read on this forum that lots of ladies liked it, however, after 4 days I had such a tremendous crash that I had to abandon it.  I stuck a patch on and within a couple of hours felt my old self again.  I can only surmise that I wasn't absorbing properly. Either way though you have nothing to lose by trying it, and only you can find out if it works for you.  Let us know how you go on.

Btw did you ever try to reduce your patch dose (as suggested)?x

[racjen]

I haven't yet because I've been waiting to get past going back onto utrogestan and the ensuing withdrawal - didn't seem like the best time and also would be confusing in terms of result. But am planning to try it gradually now, will probably go down by 25 for a couple of weeks and then, depending on how I feel, another 25 and stick at that for a while (so aiming to reduce to 50).

Re. the estrogel/evorel thing though, I know that I'm absorbing fine with patches, so if I still get on better with estrogel there's something else going on and Dr. Currie is wrong....we'll see.

[Crazee Haze]

Hello racjen Nice to see you back with us and I am so glad you felt well enough to go to your brothers.
I agree from what you have said that progesterone does have place in your regime.  The question is how much and what type.
I found that I needed my utro to settle into a proper cycle.  The first month I took it vaginally (I have never taken it orally I wouldn't risk it because of the bad experience I had with Provera which is oral) I could almost feel it tingling inside me and a sort of soreness but I just ignored it.
The next thing I learnt another 2 months was I couldn't manage the 12 days I was supposed to take it.  So dropped to 10 days and now know I am going to drop to 7. 

Personally, you mention intolerance but obviously there are stages.  I am never going to be so intolerant my body rejects it altogether but I am definitely not a lady who can take it continously nor for the normally prescribed time.  In 7 months I have learned 7-10 days would be the very max I could manage.

As I have said before, the one constant theme, throughout your journey which has not changed is everol patches and that has been since 2016 when you had your treatment.  These just may be wrong for you, I couldnt use them.  It have no idea why but I couldn't they didn't touch my insomnia or my anxiety one bit.  I would suggest that you stick to the utro for a bit longer on the shortest cycle 7-10 days and then talk about changing your oestrogen from everol.  Personally if it was me I would discuss that aspect of your problems with Dr Currie or someone else who maybe does telephone consults. Defo not that idiot man in Poole    Birdh talks about low oestrogen and although you have tried higher doses of everol they haven't which just suggests to me it could be evoral itself.

It seems that althogh GP's and consultants think oestrogen is oestrogen, in whatever make they prescribe, we know on the forum that each of use reacts differently to different oestrogen products.  You may have to try some different oestrogen products to find one that suits or if any suit but you wont know until you try.  And you must find a consultant who knows their stuff to help you do that.  I know you cant afford major expense what with the job etc so Dr Currie seems a good place to start. 

I just wish there was something I could do to help you feel better  XXXXX

Hi
Read this n thought I'd ask ..... can I cut down the amount of days I take the progesterone tablets from the monthly Elleste duet 2mg I am currently on ?
My mood is unstable n very low. I too am running out of options. Feel very vulnerable and alone in my own misery. At this time I'm not working(took a years sabbatical)as not coping. Now I'm lost for words as I do a lot in trying to explain how I feel.

[Crazee Haze]

I have enquired as to vaginal progesterone but still waiting to hear back from my gynaecologist. Mean time I did not take progesterone tablet last night. I have 7 left to take. Will I take every other night ?
I do not want to take but know there is concerns regarding womb lining building up n cancer scare ? 
Thx for getting back to me on this issue. Its the 11th hour decision n I need the advice
Desperate doesn't cover it !

[Tc]

Crazy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the elleste duet is balanced so the dose of progesterone adequately covers the womb lining for the dose of eastrogen contained. .

If I am correct in that I would think you need to see doc before trying to reduce on a permenant basis. .

Also doesnt the pill containing progesterone also contain eastrogen?  so you would be reducing eastrogen as well.
Xx