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[Hurdity]

Hi Night_Owl

 

Sorry to hear you are still suffering from the progesterone...as well as the flu, and hope you get better soon...

Hurdity x

[Miss Lemon]

I'm after some advice please ladies. I have been reading though this thread but have only got up to page 10 so far and am seriously thinking of requesting estrogel/utrogestan from my GP but would like some help in making my decision.

A quick rundown; I'm 48 and have been having peri problems since I was 41. My periods are infrequent now - I've just started my first period since June (before then I had one in January and a scant one in Feb). My main concerns are bad anxiety, low mood, muscle aches, VA (I'm on Vagifem), hot flushes and fatigue.

My anxiety and low mood are getting worse and the VA can be troublesome occasionally even with the Vagifem. I have previously tried HRT and every time that estrogen is introduced, my anxiety has gone through the roof and I've been an irritable, wound up mess. I have migraines with aura and, due to this, my GP recommended the Evorel Conti patches but I didn't get on well with them at all.  I have tried anti-depressants, which were amazing for my anxiety, low mood AND hot flushes but caused my hair to fall out - nice! So I've been managing with nothing for a few months now and need some help.

I've read good things about the estrogel/utrogestan combo and am wondering if anyone can share their experience of getting relief from anxiety from this regime? Also, how likely is it that my GP will actually prescribe it?

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. Many thanks for reading and Merry Christmas  xx

[Fullmoon]

Hello there.  I am updating the group on my experience of having decided to drop my progesterone to three times a week - I started this in July after having taken Utrogestan continuously and orally since 2010 - but something must have changed because I felt quite low a lot of the time with a sort of brain fog and decided - rightly or wrongly - that I was getting too much Progesterone.  I got the idea from this thread - someone had been prescribed this regime by a gynecologist in Switzerland.  I take two squirts of Oestrogel daily.  I started this in late July and in mid- August I had a massive bleed which went on for a week - it was slightly unnerving but it felt like a purge and made me feel really good!  I went to see my GP who immediately ordered a scan.  Scan showed endometrial thickness within normal limits.  I also asked GP for referral to menopause clinic (Mr Panay).  Bleeding stopped after about ten days and for a couple of months I had enlarged and rather painful boobs - but after that everything settled down and I have felt - within the usual ups and downs - well and in balance.  I saw the Nurse Practitioner at the menopause clinic who was very helpful and thought the reason things had changed was that my oestrogen levels had dropped - but the blood test confirmed that they were pretty much as they had been a couple of years earlier.  She asked for another scan which showed that everything is fine and healthy.  So going forward I wil keep to this regime with at least an annual scan just to check no build up.  I did my research and found a couple of small sample studies which looked at this sort of regime and concluded that it did not compromise endometrial health.  From my experience and that of the other person who has posted on this thread it seems that this regime could be used more widely.  I get very occasional spotting which to me is a price worth paying! 

Healthy and balanced new year to everyone!

[Dancinggirl]

I agree with Stellajane - I was using one pump per day and 100mg Utro daily and still got erratic spotting and cramping.  We are all different so will respond differently - anything that is contrary to the recommended use of any HRT regime must be accompanied by regular scans and checks.

Fullmoon - I'm pleased you are finding a good option for you but, as Stellajane has said, you are doing this under supervision and with regular checks which is very wise.  DG x 

[Fullmoon]

Hi Stellajane and DancingGirl - yes - thanks for adding that - I am doing this under supervision.  I have shared this because there is research evidence which suggests this regime would suit many women but for some reason (the need for regular scans perhaps or just because there hasn't been enough research - this approach has not been widely adopted).  However in terms of the amount of progesterone it is not any different from the 'Studd' approach - but just fairly continuous out instead of having three progesterone free weeks and one week on.  I find I need the progesterone but every day feels too much (and by the way when I changed I also started to take the utrogestan vaginally which reduced breast pain and stomach problems - a bonus!).  As always I am left with the view that much more research is needed but there is no incentive for pharma companies to do it and no research funds really from independent sources.  Now if I won the lottery....

[matildamouse]

Thanks so much for your feedback Fullmoon. I agree more research is needed and HRT is far from a "one size fits all" regime.

I am on Estradot 50mcg patch, twice a week vagifem and alternate days of vaginal progesterone. I am 53 years old, 2 years post menopausal and have no spotting at all. My scan a month ago showed a thin lining of 3mm.

[matildamouse]

Thanks so much for your feedback Fullmoon. I agree more research is needed and HRT is far from a "one size fits all" regime.

I am on Estradot 50mcg patch, twice a week vagifem and alternate days of vaginal progesterone. I am 53 years old, 2 years post menopausal and have no spotting at all. My scan a month ago showed a thin lining of 3mm.

[Niamh]

I'm fine with the utro, but I have heard provera is good also. Have any of you tried this if utro causing problems? Xx

Yes I tried it and made me so nauseous I couldn't move, I also couldn't sleep on it so had to stop after 48 hours. I am quite severely intolerant to progesterone though. Utro is better but not ideal I see Studd so I'm on his 7 day regime.

[Niamh]

The side effects of Utrogestan (for those of us who are progesterone intolerant) never cease to amaze me.  I am trying to shake off a nasty bout of flu that put me in bed for over a week, have lost about half a stone.  I delayed use of Utro (100 mg v-route x 12) for as long as I could - however - oh my goodness - all day, every single day I have suffered extreme nausea and some retching, the absolute worst black depression - the side effects have been most extreme.  I will never understand how even when taken v-route, Utro has such strong systemic effects - no way is it just "localised".  It is such powerful stuff, even at 100mg.

Night owl I was really interested in your post appreciate its a few weeks ago. I too am intolerant to prog and use utro v route for 7 days I see Studd so this is his regime. He's even let me skip some months when I've been ill or simply unable to face it. I agree it is powerful stuff and I get a very good bleed. The side effects are just awful though but some months bearable other months I get the horrific depression, could sob all day, it always ruins my sleep though I hate the stuff but I have 2 little boys so have to plough on. Hope you feel better now

[Hurdity]

Hi Stellajane and DancingGirl - yes - thanks for adding that - I am doing this under supervision.  I have shared this because there is research evidence which suggests this regime would suit many women but for some reason (the need for regular scans perhaps or just because there hasn't been enough research - this approach has not been widely adopted).  However in terms of the amount of progesterone it is not any different from the 'Studd' approach - but just fairly continuous out instead of having three progesterone free weeks and one week on.  I find I need the progesterone but every day feels too much (and by the way when I changed I also started to take the utrogestan vaginally which reduced breast pain and stomach problems - a bonus!).  As always I am left with the view that much more research is needed but there is no incentive for pharma companies to do it and no research funds really from independent sources.  Now if I won the lottery....

Thanks for the update. Yes I have a paper (or the abstract of it) somewhere which describes a small study demonstrating that alternate day vaginal progesterone is sufficient to keep the endometrium thin (on average) with a medium dose of oestrogen (if I remember correctly!). I'm pretty sure I posted the abstract or summary of it on here on this thread - maybe even twice as the thread is long!

I would say it is different from the Studd approach because the amount of progesterone needed to keep the endometrium thin is not just the total amount but also to do with the length of time you take it - otherwise you could take an even larger amount over 3 days.  When progesterone is used sequentially, it needs time to convert all the endometrium from proliferative to secretory and this can't be done in 3 days not matter how big the dose ( as I understand it) - because progesterone is unstable and breaks down quickly in the body. When it is used continuously it alters the receptors in the endometrium so that they are not responsive to oestrogen so the proliferative stage does not occur  - but again this needs to be at the right dose/balance between oestrogen and progesterone.

This is why it is important to do it under supervision - and very glad to see it it working for you Fullmoon . I am wondering if I would tolerate this regime - but I still feel nervous of having any form of progesterone every day because of worries about the breast even though progesterone is likely to be the safest type! I am just ultra cautious - probably because I am in my 60's!!!

Hurdity x

[Niamh]

Please can I ask if anyone else has the most appalling sleep when taking utro. I've heard it makes people sleep really soundly but it wrecks my sleep. I wake up a lot and early and have lots of exhausting vivid dreams and light tossing/turning sleep. I've only taken 4 days so far and can't wait for the 7 to be over I'm shattered..I find its dire on the withdrawal phase too...should add I am intolerant! Just interested in others experiences and any tips, afraid I just rely on a strong coffee and then run round after my 2 little boys!x

[Cassie]

It gives me insomnia, crazy dreams and often nausea in my sleep, not fun @ all! Also feel very wired, like I have had too much caffeine when on it, never experience the lovely sleep that people brag about....

[Niamh]

Yes I'm with you Cassie!! Can't wait to get my sleep back next week once off it it's horrid x

[Goosieloosie]

I too have poor sleep, weird dreams & I always wake early like wide awake at around 6am, it too has me shattered by the end of the cycle. I'm actually taking 12x200 vaginally (the licensed dose) & have been using this regime almost a year but found the withdrawal was leading to awful migraines so I tried to cut down to the 100x12 vaginally but both months I tried this I began bleeding by days 10 & 7 so never took the full 12 days. I went back onto the 12x200 in September & have had rubbish sleeps ever since while on the Utrogestan & my migraines r now happening while on it... NOT just at the withdrawal phase.. I am currently on day 5 & I feel so groggy & tired in the morning then my migraine will begin... they're not bad one's, quite mild actually, but they're there all the same which they are not when I'm on oestrogen only. Last month I only did 10 days of Utrogestan as I did have one really bad migraine & couldn't wait to be finished. I am toying with trying the 100 x 12 again but don't hold out much hope of getting the full 12 days without bleeding. I was quite well on this regime when I first began it last year. It seems, with me, that the longer I have been taking it the more intolerant I am becoming 

[Hurdity]

It gives me vivid dreams and also I am restless because it affects my bladder and have to get up to go to the loo! However I always feel groggy in the morning....Last cycle I eased myself into the 200 mg dose by having 2 days either side of 100 mg - so I think I had it for 13 days in all (vaginally).

Goosieloosie - what is your oestrogen dose because you should get fairly high absorption from 100 mg vaginally, so perhaps you are on a higher oestrogen dose? I do find that when I shorten my cycle the side effects do get worse. Currently I am on a long cycle of 6-8 weeks and that seems to give me time to get over the prog! I am only on medium dose of oestrogen and my doc is also happy with this.

Hurdity x