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[Cassie]

I ran low on Oestrogel over the holidays and was using less than a pump, wow, what a difference, woke up with a pounding heartbeat, have been feeling depressed and sweaty, so am dashing off to fill my script for a new can, amazing what a difference cutting back has made to me, and not in a good way either! Happy New Year lovely ladies!

[Hurdity]

juliekim - that amount of progesterone ( 200 mg) won't do you any harm - but you don't need such a high dose with a low dose of oestrogen. It will only affect you if you are progesterone intolerant and personally I don't like to take more progesterone than needed due to its sedative effects. As I think I explained on another thread the high doses are needed with the higher doses of oestrogen to prevent the womb lining from thickening or to shed it each month.

Re hormones and when to take them - some types of HRT are not taken daily and women thrive on them (ie patches), and regarding progesterone - I am sure Joseph Collins is not referring to this particular hormone which as you say, has a sedative effect and is definitely best taken in the evening (although for some women who need 200 mg and are progesterone intolerant - the other negative side effects can be minimised by taking in 100 mg doses twice a day).

Re anxiety - I haven't suffered from this (although I am a born worrier!), but all I know is that some women who are severely progesterone intolerant, any progestogen can make them feel depressed.

However most women are not progesterone intolerant,  but find that the synthetic progestogens do give side effects such as depression, headaches or anxiety - and this would be made worse by taking them continuously as you are advised to when post-menopausal. For these women - taking a body-identical progesterone in the form of  micronised progesterone (ie utrogestan)  - is the best way to keep unpleasant side effects to a minimum - so that you may only experience the usual pms symptoms - perhaps tiredness and a bit of bloating, which is to be expected.

Hurdity x

[juliekim]

Thank you Hurdity, I think I have only been worried because I have read all of Dr John Lee's books, so after only using approx 25mg of natural progesterone cream for a year (although it did not touch the hot flushes etc!!!) I have just got to get my head round taking more!! I am getting there though and plan to use it on day 16. And I have taken in what you have said about dosage in relation to amount of Estrogel used. I upped my Estrogel to 1 1/2 pumps today and am having a reasonable day with the flushes so hopefully that is a good sign!!

And re Joseph Collins - I suppose there are a lot of opinions out there, it is just trying to work out the ones that may be worth looking into.

Thanks so much for your input, I really am grateful for all the advice you have given me Hurdity.

Julie x

[Mini2005]

Thank you hurdity.  I have also sent Dr. Currie an e-mail question for her advice on my combination of issues.

I am seeing my GP tomorrow and will probably request the Estrogel/Utrogestan combination but he will have to investigate the Utrogestan dosage I think.

Thanks for your help everyone.

[Chrislm]

Has anyone else found that they have needed to reduce their oestrogel dose when they start using Utrogestan?

I was using 2.5 pumps until I added the progesterone when I started to get some symptoms of high oestrogen levels. I have cut back to 2 pumps and have been fine. I don't sleep as well when I'm using progesterone/ progestogen though.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has found the same!

[Cassie]

I sleep terribly when I am on utrogestan, drives me nuts, feel so wired and like I have had a caffeine overdose, once those 12 days are over, I sleep ok again.

[Meggie]

Hi again Ladies

As I wrote earlier, I have been trying to reduce my Estrodose as my Specialist felt it was time to do so ...... being 62 years of age now.  Unfortunately, I have been far from well, extreme tiredness (crashing fatigue syndrome), disturbed sleep and life has been 'pants', to say the least.  My GP gave me mild sleeping tablets which have helped me during the night and today I have been back to the Specialist re my HRT.  After explaining the struggle the last few months have been she has upped my Estrodose to 2 pumps per day (was only using 1 pump per day for 5 days) and if needed to use it at the weekends too.  If I feel good on this dosage then I'll see her in 6 months and have the usual mammogramme, to make sure the cysts in my breast have not altered in any way.  However, any breast discomfort  then I need to go back to my old dose and make another appointment to see her.  Fingers Crossed and all that.

Hope you are all coping OK

Meggie

[juliekim]

Hi everyone,

Just wondered how many of you are using 1 and a bit pumps of Estrogel and only 100mg Utrogestan 12 days out of 28.  I started using Estrogel 4 weeks ago. and then started to use 200mg Utrogestan but after 4 nights of use I was in such a progesterone induced fog I could hardly get through the day!  So as I only had 200mg, I pierced the shell and got rid of half the progesterone before using it vaginally (my doc has just agreed to give me 100mg instead!).  I seem to be fine using 100mg, although still find it hard to get up in the morning and do seem more tired especially in the evening!

Although Dr Currie has said if I wanted I could use the conti regime,  I thought I would like to just use it for 12 days a month for a while to see how I get on with it and wondered if other ladies using the same amount of Estrogel as me were able to just use 100mg Utrogestan and still get a shedding of the lining of the uterus. I obviously don't want to put myself at risk - I use the 12th Utro tab tonight and will see what happens! In past posts,

My hot flushes have basically stopped apart from a few warm moments! I am loathe to increase the Estrogel as I have had a reaction using it - ie jittery, racy feel and fast pulse.  It has calmed down but is still there in the background (and my pulse is still higher than normal). Also I would of thought keeping the amount as low as possible is preferable.

In past posts, Hurdity as commented on the Estrogen/Progesterone ratio being correct and how low doses of Estrogen aren't particularly catered for in the current dosage recommendations.

So if anyone is on the same kind regime I would love to hear your experience of it!

Many thanks,

Julie x

[Cassie]

Hi Juliekim, yes I am on exactly that dosage. I take one and a half pumps per day and 100mg of Utro from day 15 through to 26. I could not handle the 200mg either, I use the tabs vaginally but it gave me terrible tinnitus and I just felt too wired on them. I get a bleed 5 days after stopping them and go for a yearly scan of my uterus, all is good, you will be fine on those, can you not get the 100mg tablets instead of having to pierce the 200mg tablets though? They are much smaller as well...

[Cassie]

Meggie what is Estrodose, is it the same as Oestrogel, what country is it patented under that name in, just interested

[juliekim]

Hi Cassie,

Many thanks! Its just good to know it works for others too!! My doctor has today given me a prescription for 100mg tabs, so will use them from now on! Out of interest, my Estrogel is also called Estrodose on the box, but the Pharmacist put Estrogel on his sticker!  Think its French. I think I use roughly 1 1/4 pumps compared to your 1 1/2 pumps, I would just like to slight racy feel to completely go!  Maybe in a few weeks it will settle. Am glad you have told me it takes 5 days for you to come on as I now wont be expecting anything until then!!

Thanks again,

Julie x

[meno lesley]

I am 55 and use one and a half pumps of estrogel and utrogestan 25 days out of 28. I do not get a bleed on this dose but did have some spotting last year, which was scanned but showed no thickening.

Does anyone using this have trouble with their feet? Sorry seems a bit of a random question.

Lesley x

[Cassie]

What sort of trouble, ML, do you mean swelling, pain etc? This can be quite normal and can be caused by water retention due to the progesterone.

[Suzyq]

Hi juliekim

Glad you are doing well now and hope the jitters settle down. I've noticed that my heart rate is still sometimes fast but at other times is low 60's, so I think we probably just need to accept it is a period of change but not harmful from everything I have read. I am on day 2 after ending progesterone and finally have a bleed - my first in 3 months so feel relieved!! As you know I am on more estrogel than you and taking 100mg of progesterone with an extra dose of compounded progesterone, so I believe you will be fine with your dosages. I felt pretty awful after I had finished the progesterone part, so please don't worry if you do too! Hurdity reassured me and I felt a little better today, but feel good again now.

Hope you continue to do well. We are both at about the same stage in our journey and I am so glad that I was brave enough to try this regime. I am sure that we will both continue to improve as time goes on and our bodies adjust.

Susan

[Meggie]

Hi All - hope you are progressing well.

Cassie - Different name for Estrogel is because I live in South West France.

I use 2 pumps of the gel per day, throughout the week and at weekends if I need to.  It has made a difference already - Only 2 hot flushes today but I was awake in the night as I was very hot and the hot flushes are not as intense and I don't break out in a sweat.  I only have gel HRT as I had a hysterectomy 35 years ago and dont need progesterone.  I do hope the improvement continues.

Meggie