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[Lesred]

Oh ladies please help I’ve been v dithery, indecisive and silly! But I think that’s menopause for you

Right so third attempt at hrt in last 2 years, started end of Feb back on utrogeston and gel (2 pumps and 1 tab cont) all was going well until 4 1/2 mths in ( it’s always at this point), the good old bladder starts being irritable, hadn’t had a problem at all for 18 mths so was fed up to say the least! I really struggle with Ovestin or vagirux which always seem to irritate further, but I tried to start Ovestin again but 5 days in and it got worse and sore on outside, sooo sent annoying form to doc, automatically gave me antibiotics which I haven’t had for years but, although dubious I thought maybe it is an actual UTI ( in my experience it never is when sent to lab) so took them but didn’t work at all, surprise surprise! Sent another form and they then sent to lab after dip test which was positive for blood trace and leukocytes, finally lab said no to infection, again no surprise! I kept saying I was using Ovestin but was irritating further, ignored! Finally have appt to see our meno nurse on 10th Sept, ( so daft, she always says to me just shout if any problems, if only that simple). This was made about 2 weeks ago so only a 5 week wait  .

Sooo it’s been getting worse no matter what I do ie kept using ovestin, apply yes VM and using Hydromol to wash etc, the latter 2 I’ve been doing for 2 years! But as this happened the last 2 times I used hrt I got it into my head that hormones were causing the problem, as when on no hrt all settles down, although since age 36 I’ve had many probs with bladder and various scans cystoscopy etc finding nothing much and labelled oab or IC , which means to me we don’t really know?! So I really thought my hormones caused it (or stress, or hot weather..) and now post meno by 4 yrs aged 57 it had begun to settle down, except when I’ve tried hrt?? Sooo annoying.

Anyway, to the point, I was getting so fed up and as is usual for some of us these things always get worse before going on hols, off to Greece on Tuesday, I decided I couldn’t cope any longer and with no chance of doc for another few weeks came off hrt cold turkey 3 days ago  bladder immediately felt better the next morning and felt great all day and I thought ok this is nice and such a relief BUT … I have got really uncomfortable on outside and it’s is red, itchy and sore, I’m also taking quite a hit with withdrawal, aching all over, tummy, not sleeping and bladder is twinging again! So what do I do for the next few weeks until appt? Help? I really like hrt and it resolves alot of symptoms for me so I feel stuck between a rock and hard place.

I have read so much on this site and I know I’m not alone! I so wish I’d had more relief from vaginal oestrogen because obviously it’s VA that has really reared up, and I have been diagnosed with that a good few years ago but I don’t understand why oestrogen makes it feel soo much worse! Although progesterone may also irritate bladder, but I take it orally as no way could I try vaginally!

Question is … do I restart hrt now until nurse and take the bladder hit? Also I’ve just started multi gyn active to try and sort ph/flora etc, which is ok so far or do I leave it all alone for the moment? Even yes stings a little? It’s such a well worn topic I know and I’m so sorry to bring it all up again but I really think I may have been silly coming off hrt!

Thank you for all your wise words if you have any for the above madness!

X x

[CLKD]

If your bladder is irritable is it worth re-starting anything?  R U hydrated?  Particularly as U are going away.  Could it B that the 2 pumps was too much too soon?

Often VA treatment does irritate for a while until the tissues being to plump up.  The day after I begin a reload I get those sensations which go after 24 hours.

As oestrogen levels drop off the body may become dry: inside and out, including the vagina.  Skin, deep in the ears, eyes, nostrils, in between the toes, scalp .........

[Lime]

Hi Lesred,

So so sorry to read your post, you know I so understand as I have same trouble with vagifem and other topical estrogens.

I don’t know what to tell you about re-starting the estrogen.  It’s such guesswork.

Have you thought about the possibility of a thrush infection? 

[MrsMitch]

I agree with Lime about thrush. My GP said I gad it recently during what I thought was just a VA flare up & prescribed antibiotics. They helped enormously.

[Lesred]

Oh gosh ladies thank you so much!

Firstly CLKD, that is perfectly possible that I am just not persevering enough and I get quite jumpy if it seems to make it worse and then comes the dithering… it’s good to hear that this can be normal though, thank you!!

Lime and MrsMitch, so here’s the thing I’m not altogether sure what thrush feels like as never been diagnosed before and there’s no real discharge at all but it did cross my mind? In which case I need to treat if it is that? I’ve read caneston can be v harsh so am I better with the one off tablet? Thank you both so much for your help, sometimes I can’t see the woods for the trees and if I’d been able to see a nurse/doc sooner this wouldn’t be an issue!! Also is it worth testing for thrush ie buying one?

I honestly am so cross with myself for being lulled into antibiotics as I really feel they can do more harm than good in this area  !

Ok so I applied Ovestin last night as was getting dire and it did help a bit but I was also v distracted at Coldplay concert    and i have restarted hrt today and will try to deal with thrush possibility. I really need to get a grip and make a plan because i am really annoying myself with this all consuming dithering and the old second guessing is my worst enemy!

It all started this time with the hot weather and aching after peeing which is horrid!!

Anyway many thanks to you all, much appreciated!

X x

[Lime]

Lesred,

The only symptom I ever get with thrush is very painful irritation, never any discharge and never itch if that helps.  The oral antifungal pill may be a better choice than Caneston.

I have never done a home-test for thrush,
Only tested at Doc’s Office where it is sent to a lab.  But I have taken fluconazole without testing.

Good that the Ovestin helped you.
 

[Lesred]

Ooh thanks for that Lime that’s interesting as I always assume itching and discharge, I will definitely try that as it can’t hurt to take fluconazole can it?!

Yes well my experience with Ovestin is it always helps initially and then gets worse, there I go waiting for the inevitable 

Thanks again

X x

[CLKD]

Don't treat for thrush until U have given the VA treatment at least 7 nights use.  4 me thrush was an itch too high up to reach, others get that with a discharge.  VA can mimic other conditions really well!

If U treat with too many products how will U know which is causing any problems/not? .  Some ladies do require systemic HRT as well as localised VA treatments, we are all so different. 

[Lesred]

Great thanks CLKD I might wait until after hol and see how I go with Ovestin, you are right too many things just gets more confusing!

Xx

[Mary G]

Lesred, I don't know if this will be of any help but I really don't get on with vaginal oestrogen products.  My gynaecologist said my skin looked dry and suggested oestrogen cream but it completely buggered everything up and I ended up with post urine drip and burning after urination.  I was perfectly alright before the oestrogen cream and I think it was just dry skin due to our hard water.

I'm on systemic HRT (two pumps of Oestrogel every day) which I think is sufficient for bladder and vaginal health so I'm hoping that's an adequate amount of oestrogen because I have a very poor track record for tolerating spermicidal gel, caps or anything else in that region.  I had a very bad episode in the 1990s with endless itching, burning and constant urination and it's never been quite the same since although nothing like as bad as that.

I think some women are probably better off with systemic HRT and it sounds like that could be the case with you.

[CLKD]

All experiences shared can be of help - to be used now, put 2 one side for later consideration .........

[Lesred]

MaryG thank you!! Sometimes it feels like I’m going mad and I keep thinking why is this not working for me like everyone else ( although it would seem I/we really aren’t alone) I think vagirux was the worst for me when I tried a few years ago, by the 11th day of loading I was very miserable, because as you say it seemed to get way worse and more sensitive that I couldn’t remember it being that bad before I started, Ovestin was slightly better probably because I can control the amount and where it goes, but still after a few days makes it worse, it makes me feel I haven’t pushed through to get to the other side, but many ladies here still don’t find relief after a few months and I couldn’t cope for a few months, eek!

My bladder/va was the reason I was put on HRT in first place and it resolved v quickly but then came back after about 4/5 months but topical oestrogen just made it worse, especially as a came off HRT at same time ( although it was the Everol combi patch which def didn’t suit me) I have def decided to stay on systemic oestrogen and I’ll discuss with meno nurse, who is lovely when you finally see her, and she may well suggest more oestrogen, maybe my levels go down after a while and adjustment is required, I really hadn’t considered that may help!


Thank you so much, all of these experiences really do help to keep me sane and calm as I do tend to get stuck inside my own head! If I can just make it through next few weeks I have plenty to discuss with nurse 

Ooh CLKD you took the words out of my mouth as I was typing them 

X x

[CLKD]

What have U decided to do?

[Lesred]

I am going to carry on with systemic HRT and try to continue with Ovestin for now and see if sticking to using on outside ( where most of the discomfort is) really does help, then I’m going to discuss the whole lot with the nurse when I see her, I won’t add anything else to mix for now! I do feel clearer in my head now 
 X x

Ps I’ll update thread when I’ve seen her

[MrsMitch]

I'm like Lime with regards to thrush. I had no clue I had it, GP told me I did. No itch no discharge just painful which I thought was a flare up of VA. My GP prescribed antibiotics because she said being I was so sore & have a tendency to be sensitive to anything that is applied to my lady bits.