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[Dandelion]

I wonder, does Estrone protect us? I always wonder also how some women manage without HRT and are OK and others have an awful time without it. Is it because they aren't producing Estrone or enough of it post meno to compensate the loss of estrogen?
Can we take Estrone or has that not been manufactured yet? Just googled it and there is a cream for vaginal use.

Hello 🙂
Estrone does not protect us.
In the absence of adequate oestrogen cover, we produce estrone, a weaker oestrogen. Not only is it a bit pathetic in comparison to oestradiol, that we lost, it needs fat cells for production, so our bodies lay down fat around the middle.
This happened to me. I look cuddly, but the body also lays down fat around the organs 😐 Not so cuddly 😀
As for the women who manage without HRT, lost oestrogen is silently doing damage in the background, or, those same women don't know that the various medical problems or daily bodily annoyances are down to menopause, I didn't until things started improving and I later found out it was the HRT.
It works on every cell in our body, no wonder I was a basket case, for what it was doing to my brain, and therefore mental health.

[Dandelion]

The problem is getting GP's to prescribe HRT when there's no menopausal symptoms post menopause, just for prevention of osteoporosis. Even if you're diagnosed with this, HRT is not the first option if you have no other menopause symptoms.
My only symptom is GSM and this is managed quite well with local estrogens but if I did start having more post menopausal symptoms I think I would struggle to get HRT at my age now (69) from the GP without a gynae to intervene. I had to get the gynae to up my vagifem years ago and add Estriol cream as the GP wouldn't without their approval. Both are on repeat now but I still dread the yearly review as in the past I've had to battle with the resident incompetent pharmacist doing the review, who wanted to reduce my dosage "as it causes blood clots". Sadly this is what some of us are still up against. Thankfully he's gone.

Nowhere in the guidelines does it limit HRT for women whatever age.
Dr's practicing this way are working with out-dated information.
I mean we even have black box warnings on vaginal oestrogen and oestradiol, a hormone our bodies made.
The (small) risks for cancer are with the synthetics, which were only made originally to make money.

[Dandelion]

Crikey
This thread has been a really difficult read.
My heart goes out to anyone suffering, or faced with Drs who gatekeep HRT and say things like ""you have undetectable estrogen and testosterone, but thats completely normal for a woman your age"  as per @buffy26 's doctor.
All this unnecessary hassle to get hormones that our bodies used to make.
HRT, ideally is a preventative medicine, not to wait for symptoms to get worse or actual maladies and perils to arise.

[Fizwhizz]

Thank you for starting this thread. I seem to be a poor absorber and also have Hashimotos. I feel awful without oestrogen. Unfortunately I haven’t yet found a regime that has got me beyond low 200’s pmol. In addition to poor absorption my sex binding hormones are high and mopping up any excesses. Without enough oestrogen I have low energy, flatness and can’t get off the sofa. I’ve been on Estradot and Oestrogel and am now trialling the two together. I think I may need my dose moving upward of the NHS standard of 100 mcg or trying something different entirely. I’m 56 and have just crashed again after trying 4 pumps of oestrogel. I’m also suspicious of the ever changing patches/gels which claim to be exactly the same. I had one entire  box of Estradot that refused to stick. The current box of 25’s seem to be adhered but who knows if I’m absorbing them.

[Pippa52]

Fizwhizz - I had one box of Estradot's that didn't work at all for me.  They are made by Sandoz the new manufacturer of Estradot patches and their expiry date was 2025.  I actually wrote to Sandoz with the batch number and they are investigating them.  Because of this I thought it was because the manufacturer had maybe changed the make up of the patches as a lot of other ladies were saying the same online on other sites but I have gone back to them now as the ones with the expiry dates in 2026 seem to be fine.  All very odd.  They are the only ones that have got my blood levels up to a reasonable level.  Oestrogel I didn't absorb at all.

[Fizwhizz]

Fizwhizz - I had one box of Estradot's that didn't work at all for me.  They are made by Sandoz the new manufacturer of Estradot patches and their expiry date was 2025.  I actually wrote to Sandoz with the batch number and they are investigating them.  Because of this I thought it was because the manufacturer had maybe changed the make up of the patches as a lot of other ladies were saying the same online on other sites but I have gone back to them now as the ones with the expiry dates in 2026 seem to be fine.  All very odd.  They are the only ones that have got my blood levels up to a reasonable level.  Oestrogel I didn't absorb at all.

Thanks Pippa, I’ll take a look at the boxes I’ve got left. I started with these as the GP said they’re the best adhesion wise and I was ok until I had the box where none stuck. Then my oestrogen dropped to basically none and so I started on the gel. I seem ok on what I try for a while and then I crash. I’m currently on 100 mcg via 2 x25 patches and 2 pumps of gel. Not much is happening though as I still feel lethargic and without energy. It’s frustrating as every time I feel ok I think I’ve cracked it until I crash again. It’s really difficult to do the other supporting things like exercise and self care too when there’s no motivation.

[Pippa52]

Fizwhizz - totally understand and its such a roller coaster trying to get the levels and dose and right type of HRT to all work together.  It can be beyond frustrating I hear you I really do!! x

[Fizwhizz]

Fizwhizz - totally understand and its such a roller coaster trying to get the levels and dose and right type of HRT to all work together.  It can be beyond frustrating I hear you I really do!! x

It is difficult. I go really flat and under a big cloud and just can’t function without oestrogen. I can’t eat, have no energy, have dark thoughts. I have an under active thyroid too but when I have blood tests these levels are ok, it’s my oestrogen that is low. I think I must get an initial hit from any HRT but then as I’m not absorbing enough to feel well everything falls off a cliff. I checked my patches and I have one box of 25mcg dated 25 and the rest are dated 26. The 25’s seem to be sticking and I’ve just gone up to 75mcg but I’ve been using gel too as I felt so awful. Tomorrow is patch change day so I’m going to just try 100mcg via patches and see how I go. It’s difficult to create a baseline if I don’t try and just stick to one thing at a time but it’s hard and scary when you feel so off. I hope you’re seeing some improvement 🤞

[buffy26]

Thank you for starting this thread. I seem to be a poor absorber and also have Hashimotos. I feel awful without oestrogen. Unfortunately I haven’t yet found a regime that has got me beyond low 200’s pmol. In addition to poor absorption my sex binding hormones are high and mopping up any excesses. Without enough oestrogen I have low energy, flatness and can’t get off the sofa. I’ve been on Estradot and Oestrogel and am now trialling the two together. I think I may need my dose moving upward of the NHS standard of 100 mcg or trying something different entirely. I’m 56 and have just crashed again after trying 4 pumps of oestrogel. I’m also suspicious of the ever changing patches/gels which claim to be exactly the same. I had one entire  box of Estradot that refused to stick. The current box of 25’s seem to be adhered but who knows if I’m absorbing them.

  Hello Fizwhizz, I really feel for you. I have also had issues, with my levels at just about reaching the 250 'adequate' level on Lenzetto. My skin is very dry so this was the last resort, as it is reputed to be successful for people who poorly absorb. That flat feeling, I take a natural product which is an amino acid called Ltheannine. It keeps me on an even keel moodwise. Have a research on here about Lenzetto spray, others seem to get on well.

[orrla]

Do not ever fall for that!

At 63 while I was fine, no irreversible issues, but my NHS meno clinic dr said I must cut...

By 67 my spine collapsed, tumour in chest showed up, hair fell out, VA went wild, and I just had an injection into my eyeball...

I increased last September, now 70, but the damage is done!

I could be healthier, my body fitter, enjoyed retirement I worked all my life for, but no, they had to f.. it up!

😕

[Elizabethlovejoy]

I am 70 and a client of Newson health. They write to my GP after my annual review and the GP prescribes Oestrogel ( 4pumps) utrogestan and I buy testosterone via Newson.
My previous GP and my current GP are very supportive. However today I encountered a difficult GP as my GP is away. I have had some bleeding so made an appointment . As I walked in this new to me GP she said you should absolutely not be on HRT at 70. Then proceeded to rant at me about the high risk of blood clots cancer strokes and heart disease i was subject to at my age with my prescription. I said I thought the risks were minimised with transdermal HRT. A little she said but you are still at substantial risk. I asked her for evidence. She said I am the doctor! She referred me for an ultrasound scan as I am at risk of cancer.( I don’t have a history of cancer it is just because of the bleeding she is rightly referring me.) She increased my utrogestan to 3 a day and demanded I reduce my oestrogel down to one pump a day.  So I meekly said thank you for referring me for a scan. Where do some of these GPs get their information from? Her poor menopausal patients!
I will get the scan and then if any further appointments are needed ask for my own supportive GP.

[orrla]

It's scary how treatments depend on given person, not science!

[joziel]

I think the myth that older women need less HRT is down to nothing other than misogyny.

The chop logic goes something like this:

HRT makes you sexy and sexual again. But we don't like to think of old women being sexual. So they shouldn't have it. We will pressure them to reduce it and stop it.

I don't think this is conscious by the way, it's totally unconscious and even the meno-possy promote it because they haven't realised it's a fallacy and it's misogyny.