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[wallflower]

Hi Reb, I read your posts, you are saying that you have thyroid issues. Would you be willing to chat with me directly?

[boomerang]

Hello all

Those who’ve emailed Besins re. The difference in gel and the crappy pumps can you share the contact details please?
I opened my last remaining bottle today and the pump literally does not work, nothing is coming despite near constant pumping. I have mine dispensed from my GP dispensary and therefore not open today (Saturday) I took it to a high street pharmacy to ask if they could exchange and they refused. So I am now expected to be without my medication for over 2 days.

Thankfully I have scales already because of the inconsistent pump so I can open the tube and scoop some out, but that is beside the point.
Thank you

[joziel]

Jeeze, it's a joke. Yesterday I took the lid off a new bottle of Oestrogel - and the entire top of the pump came off, exposing all the gel inside to air.  It was like the lid was seized to the top of the pump so it all came off together.

I'm assuming I can't really rely on this bottle now so just using it for topping up...

[boomerang]

Joziel- mine is loose! They are awful. I’ll have to make a journey to the GP surgery Monday and get another one as like you say if I’m scooping mine out it will be exposed to the air.

[wallflower]

Good morning! joziel and boomerang, how to you find the gel itself, is it same as from the old bottles or different even if you manage to get the right dose?

[joziel]

I was never on the 'old' gel. I started using gel just after the 'new' gel came along. I've never been given Oestrodose.

I did have the kind of oval bottles at first and then the cylindrical ones. But I've been increasing my dose constantly so it's hard to tell if the gel works the same, I've never reached stability of symptoms... Sandrena definitely saw everything come back.

[boomerang]

I was on Oestrodose previously, within 2 weeks of Oestrogel my symptoms were returning. I increased to 2 pumps and it’s been great since 👍🏻

As I’m Peri I fluctuate naturally so can’t say for certain the gel was the reason but generally overall 2 pumps is working great 👍🏻 when I can get it out of the bottle 🙄

I did a yellow card yesterday - we can hope it helps!

[wallflower]

Thank you joziel amd Boomerang!
Joziel, in your previous posts, you mentioned that thyroid meds bind SHBG. I've been on Thyroid meds most of my life and always felt suboptimal until I had my menopause at 45 and since then felt much better, my assumption here is that my own sex hormones were unstable and once I started relying only on transdermals it became more stable. I always believed that estrogens bind thyroid hormones and not the other way around. For example, it is stated that one of the symptoms of hyperthyroidism is an increased sex drive. I was stable on my thyroid meds and estrogel+utrogestan  until the new bottles came in and now I am all over the place and I don't understand whats going on. I even have a tight feeling in my throat/neck which I never had in my life. What is your experience with thyroid hormones and sex hormones? Is higher dose of thyroid meds decrease or increase the  efficacy of estrogel? How does progesterone affects thyroid hormones and estrogen? I am sorry to bother you with all these questions, but googling is not very helpful here.

[joziel]

wallflower, I'm no expert but I've spoken to lots of people and hung out on lots of relevant FB groups.

It seems to go either way, really. Many people taking thyroid meds who then start taking estrogen need an increase in their thyroid meds. Some people already on HRT who start thyroid meds need their HRT adjusted as well.

SHBG binds to estrogen and testosterone. It actually binds more testosterone up than estrogen, apparently. (My total T is borderline high within female range, but my free T was quite low - which would support this.) I haven't tested SHBG since I've been on thyroid meds so I don't know if it has increased - it was not high before - but it's a known fact that T3 especially increases SHBG. (T4 increases it slightly but doesn't have the same effect as T3 does.) Are you on T3 as well as T4?

I have no idea how everything is interacting because I never got sex hormones optimised anyway before I started thyroid meds. It will be interesting to see what happens as I come off the thyroid meds. I began today, reducing T3 by 5mcg. It should take me about 3 weeks to get off it completely and I'm a bit nervous about it all...

[wallflower]

Joziel, Thank you for the clarification. May I ask why you are trying to get off thyroid meds? I am on Armour thyroid, which is the American natural desiccated pig thyroid containing T1, T2, T3, and T4. I've been on this for over 20 years as I did not do well on synthetics, and my body does not convert T4 to T3. I have been stable on the dose for years and now with that estrogen kerfuffle my symptoms are all over the place. BTW spoke to my pharmacy today, they first denied that there was a problem with Besina, them they addmitted that some bottle pumps might have been affected. They still insist that even though the quantity consistency might be an issue the chemical composition of the gel is itemtical to the old Estrogel.

[joziel]

I'm getting off thyroid meds because I had a very normal thyroid panel before starting except for high rT3 and the meds were a desperate trial to address severe neurological night time symptoms, just in case they were caused by thyroid. It then all went a bit pear shaped with doctors increasing my dose - none of which ever helped the symptoms. So the trial treatment failed and it's not my thyroid. (It's fluctuating estrogen of course.)

I've only been on them for a year and have had TSH suppressed since about January.

With your situation, you might find it better to be on separate T4 and T3 meds because you can adjust both separately then. With Armour you get kind of both in one... Or perhaps you can stay with the Armour but add in more T3 separately.

[wallflower]

joziel, that sounds like a nightmare what the doctors put you through! I hope once you get off thyroid meds you'll feel much better! My t3 is already quite high, Armour is doing its job, I even suspect that I might need to reduce the dose slightly

[joziel]

Yes, it was one particular online 'thyroid specialist' doctor whose name begins with C (as in Dr C.....).

She put me on a very low dose of T3 at first (15mcg) which worked great to clear my rT3 without suppressing my TSH. But then she freaked out when my T4 came back below range (which is very normal on T3 only) and insisted I also take 50mcg T4. (She told me she was 'sure' she'd found the cause of my symptoms now - and I was so desperate to fix the night time stuff, I was easily convinced.)

As soon as I took the 50mcg T4, along with that 15mcg T3, it was enough to suppress my own TSH and thyroid function. Then I needed a considerably higher dose as a full replacement dose, rather than boosting my own thyroid hormones. It was a slippery slope.

As soon as I realised how wrong she was with this, I left her and went to another (good!) online thyroid doctor, Dr Momi. But yes, I'd rather not have to deal with all this right now just because one doctor didn't know enough about thyroid stuff....

[jillydoll]

I’ve just noticed the same with the new bottles.
I’ve been using the old blue cap ones, everything was fine, found my balance, then I was given the new white cap bottles, and I’ve suffered symptoms. 🤨
I’ve now upped my doses from 3 to 4 per day. …..I’ve just levelled out, after 3 days of upping it.
Maybe that’s why Ive had a headache for the last two days!!! .

[Tynkabelle]

… thought I would highlight this thread as have finally received a report from Besins with their conclusion of me flagging that there were issues with the Oestrogel/change of bottle etc (over 6 months ago) so the batch examples I sent were fine: ok the empty ones I used/threw away before becoming aware of the issues may have had a different batch reference… will never know! (Using Sandrena nowadays which seems to do the job)

Conclusion:
The investigation performed for these complaints has not identified any quality deficiencies regarding the ingredients, the
manufacturing and packaging process, and testing that could lead a lack of efficacy and defective pump for Oestrogel. The manufacturing and packaging process of Oestrogel for conical and cylindrical shape bottles is identical.
These two bottle shapes of Oestrogel product contain the same gel manufactured with the same ingredients from the same suppliers. The gel formulation has not been changed.
These complaints are not confirmed.