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[Cookie25]

Thanks Tynkabelle

I have just received the exact same response. It's disappointing to feel that so many of us clearly notice a difference yet they still stand their ground adamant that nothing is different!

It is also disappointing that no-one raised this in the panorama programme either given this is the reason so many of us are using a higher dose than previously and in some cases a higher dose than the guidelines. It's a worry for people who have a gp frightened  by the programme who may insist they reduce pumps when the product is to blame. I'd love to hear other peoples opinions on this.

Thanks
Cookie x

[chopsuey]

I also had the same email from Besin's and agree it is disappointing, if not unexpected. I am really hoping that they are at least going to change to the old style dispensers next year, as had been suggested earlier in this thread. I am fed up with weighing the damn stuff every day but it really does vary so much from pump to pump. I really don't understand how they can have failed to find any issues with the current dispensers.

I wouldn't have expected Panorama to get involved with the Oestrogel issues  - even the two specialists I have seen have been very sceptical of my claims about there being a difference. But there was little mention of the fact that women vary widely in how much they absorb from any transdermal hormone product. It was not a balanced programme  - they only really had one agenda and I do worry how the fall out from this is going to affect prescribing   

[Suchfun]

I am fed up with weighing the damn stuff every day but it really does vary so much from pump to pump. I really don't understand how they can have failed to find any issues with the current dispensers. 

I came on to this forum as I am not convinced re the new shaped bottles either and have been weighing the pumped amount. Please can I ask what measurement/weight you use per pump? Thank you ☺️

[Suziemc]

I came on to this forum as I am not convinced re the new shaped bottles either and have been weighing the pumped amount. Please can I ask what measurement/weight you use per pump? Thank you ☺️

Each pump dispenses 1.25g of gel  -or should! I'm another user who bought jewellers scales to measure as I could see it often dispensed less. I found it varied from .95g to 1.35g each time. Even allowing for any inaccuracies in the scales this was unacceptable.

[chopsuey]

When we first started getting the new shaped bottles and it became apparent there was less in the new shape, I started to weigh the doses from both shapes, to see if there was a difference.  The old shape, which was also supposed to be 1.25g, used to give a bit more - 1.27g -  and this was consistent throughout the bottle. The current shape will give 1.25g sometimes but varies widely.

I have carried on with 1.27g, as I noticed a difference over 4 pumps if only using 1.25g.     

[joziel]

I've never weighed my doses but I do notice that some pumps are visibly less than others.

However, got to say that, with patches, there is always a dirty grimy ring around the edge of each patch which presumably affects absorption as well. So whatever method you use, it's not perfectly consistent.

[Turkish delight]

So, I just picked up my Oestrogel and it's the blimin cylindrical bottles every time!!
Gimme a break for heaven's sake!


I'm getting pssd off with this bottle fiasco, not just bcz the contents seem less good, but the stupid stopper
and lack of a stable metered dose is all driving me bonkers at this point, can anyone relate?

I thought Basins said they were only using this bcz the supply for the gel increased because of the Davina effect and they would be changing back to the
less fiddly less crappy one, oh somebody stop me lol!
I like Davina but she's caused a massive gel tidal wave situation and I'm still feeling the effects, not happy, make it stop!

TD

[warwick01]

Hi
Anyone else still having problems with new shaped bottles???

[Cookie25]

Hi Warick01

I'm still using the increased amount of Pumps that I
I have felt I've needed since the bottle change. I have considered reducing it slightly to trial it but am not keen to rock the boat! I'd love to know how others are getting on too.
Thanks Cookie xxx

[MrsMitch]

I've upped my dose to one extra pump for ages now and my symptoms seem controlled, so I'll continue until they revert back to the old bottles and then knock the extra pump off. That's if they do revert back!

[KitKat888]

After the packaging switch late 2023 I was using Oestrogel in the cylindrical bottle and feeling awful.  Unexplained bleeding, continual UTIs, coldsores, eye stye problems.  I then tried the french Oestrodose which was easily available in the UK at that time and managed to get enough supply for most of 2024, I felt perfectly fine on it.  Now it's impossible to get the Oestrodose in the UK any more and I have to have the Oestrogel in the cylindrical bottle. Sure enough, a month later I'm again dealing with unexplained bleeding, UTIs, coldsores, and eye styes/chalazions again.   I am weary of the old chestnut "but it's the exact same ingredients" which keeps being repeated on this forum.  You only have to read the label to see that it isn't.   The Oestrogel is using Oestradiol Hemihydrate, and the Oestrodose is using Oestradiol Anhydrous.  These are different chemical formulations of Oestradiol which are different from the standard Oestradiol which all the gel products contained a few years ago.  For anyone interested in the detail a google search will yield further information.  Suffice it to say that in summary (as my non chemist brain understands it) the hemihydrate version means the oestradiol is cut with water molecules - which makes it more stable, but less bioavailable.  The anhydrous is less stable and can be affected by temperature variations, but assuming that problem hasn't happened in transit it's more bioavailable.  Seriously considering a flight to France to stock up on the Oestrodose over the counter as it's available there.

[chopsuey]

Interesting what you say KitKat888 about the different forms of oestradiol. I struggled with reoccurence of symptoms when the bottle shapes were changed in 2023. It seemed to be partially that the cylindrical pumps delivered fluctuating doses but it wasn't the whole story, as even when weighed out to be the same, it wasn't as potent.

I'm pretty certain the oestradiol in the original shaped bottles was also oestradiol hemihydrate though. I actually found a couple of the old bottles in my cupboard recently that had got buried and it does say it contains the hemihydrate version. For me, the thing I really notice is the difference in the alcohol smell - it's much stronger in the original bottles, which may effect how well it is absorbed.

I was given some French Oestrodose for my last prescription 3 weeks ago. Round here, it seems you are given whatever is available at the time. I've not noticed any difference using that compared to the cylindrical stuff but I think we are all different how we absorb things and different factors may effect people in different ways. I do think my body copes better with fluctuating doses of oestradiol now I'm several years post meno, so am maybe less sensitive to changes in potency/absorbance.

[RebJT]

Hi

I know this is a Zombie thread, but just coming back to update.  I came off oestrogel after doing great on it for years as my levels plummeted by about 100 points a month until they tanked to what you'd expect if I wasn't taking HRT, despite taking 7 pumps of the bloomin' stuff.  Suffice to say this was totally miserable.  Complaints to Besins, including evidenced by blood results and a report from my doctor were fobbed off.

Fiddled about with various alternatives - estradot made me buzzy, Evorel was OK ish and my blood levels were OK ish on 100, about 300 pmol, but massive water retention and in the end REALLY sore boobs and hated the glue and the patch. 

Had another go at Sandrena - I was buzzy for a couple of days - and persisted.  I initially split the dose, but don't now and apply it all in the mornings.  I've now been on Sandrena for over a year. 
My levels on 2mg were 503 pmol
Just restested on 2.5mg and they are 775 pmol

I feel pretty good.  I'm 53 and still on cyclical HRT mainly because I'm prog sensitive and I'd rather suck up having a bleed than live with the jitters on full time P.  My cycles are 28 days on the nose.

I've lost weight, I have ups and downs of sleep (but then it's been an incredibly stressful year with life stuff), I work out and lift weights, I have a busy job.

Just to say to those of you still struggling with oestrogel, you are not imagining it, and imho, life's too short to be suffering, if you are able try something else.  I like the freedom of gel and being able to tweak my dose, and I have a helpful doctor who prescribes more than I need to allow me to find my own sweet spot which I've done gradually over this last year.  I do my own tests at the Nuffield (£70 for E test) and I do my own scans at those baby scan places, they will do an endometrium scan, rather than argue with the NHS, and feel better for taking control of my own care.

Hope that's helpful to someone.  It took me an incredibly long time to get stable and on a good dose of oestrogel and I was absolutely heartbroken they messed with it, but there is life beyond!

Cheers

Reb
x

[chopsuey]

Hi Reb

Thanks for posting. Good to hear you are still doing well on the Sandrena. My private specialist was keen for me to switch, but as 2mg, the equivalent of 4 pumps of Oestrogel is 'off licence' and I wanted to continue with GP provision, I've stuck with the Oestrogel. I'm doing OK on it now.

The last lot I received was in the original conical containers - I heard Besins were going to return to using that. I've not tried it yet but am not expecting it to be any different to the current formulation, although hopefully the new containers will at least deliver a reliable dose each time!   

[RebJT]

Hiya

I hear you.  According to Women's Health Concern (the patient facing arm of the BMS) and our own Dr Currie, 2 -3mg of Sandrena is equivalent to four pumps, despite what the stingy guidelines and licencing say https://www.womens-health-concern.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/27-WHC-FACTSHEET-HRT-Doses-NOV2022-A.pdf  But someone close to me is trying to do this NHS and having the same nightmare over 'max' doses, despite now having a private specialist asking her GP to just prescribe.  It's just one argument after another, which is why I've just opted out of even having the debate but the costs do add up.

Hope you continue to do OK,

Reb
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