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Author Topic: Unexpected Changes.  (Read 3072 times)

Kathleen

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Unexpected Changes.
« on: May 25, 2023, 04:57:30 PM »

Hello ladies.

I just wanted to run this past you to see what you thought.  Recently I have noticed some unexpected and unwelcome changes to my symptoms despite being on a steady dose of 50mcg of gel and Cyclogest pessaries since September last year. The thought has occurred to me that some of my meno symptoms are returning. As an example my sleep was always pretty good but I am having some sleepless nights again. I have also had the occasional night sweat and daytime flush plus I have started to feel my episiotomy scar again which is a sure sign of vaginal dryness for me. 

I have read many posts where ladies say that their HRT seems to have stopped working and I wonder if that is happening to me? I continue to experience mood issues during the day and some anxiety but the physical and vaso motor symptoms were well controlled by my HRT up to now.

Obviously I am not thrilled by this turn of events!

I have introduced some lifestyle changes which may be influencing my hormones more than I expected. For example now that I go to bed early I no longer have a nap in the afternoon and perhaps that is adding to my anxious feelings during the day. Also I have been supplementing with vitamin D for a few months and I wonder if this is effecting my hormonal balance? These scenarios are unlikely but I am clutching at straws here lol.

I just wanted to put my thoughts into words and I will continue with my current regime for a while longer but any comments would be most welcome.

Wishing you all well ladies and take care.

K.




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discogirl

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2023, 05:11:30 PM »

Hi Kathleen,

I'm really sorry you're experiencing all this; it really is horrible isn't it.

You've been on this regime for about 8 months and I'm no expert but I wondered if you might need to increase your gel?
The good thing with gel is that you can increase or decrease your dose quite easily.

take care and I hope other ladies with better advice than me will come along xx
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SarahT

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2023, 06:05:42 PM »

Hello Kathleen,

I know when some of my worse symptoms are starting to worsen again,( they have never ever gone fully away,only improved slightly) I check with my gp and increase my dose as discogirl suggested. I am on patches rather than the gel. I have been on these for 9 months now, and seem to have 'swapped'  some symptoms for others...sleep disturbance also being a new one for me too.

Maybe worth a check with your g.p for advise??

I hope this can be resolved for you

Take care x

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Kathleen

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2023, 07:53:46 AM »

Hello again ladies.

Discogirl and SarahT -

Thank you both for taking the time to respond.

I assume an increase in gel is called for and the only reason I am reluctant is because of the breast pain and bleeding that I have experienced in the past on higher doses.
I am also post meno by a long way and I can't believe that my body hasn't yet adjusted to naturally lower Oestrogen levels.

Of late I have been having a few disturbed nights and last night I woke up twice with definite night sweats! All very frustrating!

Thanks again ladies for your comments and take care.

K.
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Penguin

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2023, 09:25:26 AM »

Hi Kathleen
I can't comment on the bleeding but was wondering where you apply the gel in relation to the breast pain. My first attempt at hrt stopped abruptly when I got too anxious about the breast pain when starting - I was doing two pumps one on each arm. This time the GP (and seeing a couple of people on here mention it) had me start on one pump and apply to my inner thigh, alternating each day. I haven't had breast pain since starting (apart from the cyclical few days before my bleed). Even when I do two pumps, one on each thigh, I don't get the breast pain, so was wondering if it happened before because of how close to breasts the arms are / flow lymph etc. No medical or scientific backing to that whatsoever but just something I noticed!
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Kathleen

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2023, 12:42:19 PM »

Hello again ladies.

Penguin. - 

 I was told by a consultant that spreading the gel on  the upper arm made  breast pain more likely so since then I have always used my inner thigh.

It seems this confirms your suspicions and avoiding the upper arm is the way to go lol.

Take care.

K.
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Wrensong

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2023, 12:55:49 PM »

Hi Kathleen, I know you've done a lot of reading about Vit D, so you probably know this already but if you are not taking it early in the day (as I expect you are) it's said Vit D can interfere with sleep.  My sleep has also worsened, now in my early 60s, so I sympathise.

I was also advised by a Menopause Specialist Cons Gynae not to apply oestradiol gel to the arms, being too close to the breasts.  In fact I'd never applied it to the arms & always used thighs instead.
Wx
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 01:10:08 PM by Wrensong »
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Kathleen

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2023, 02:11:46 PM »

Hello again ladies.

Wrensong - Thank you for your comments and nice to hear from you.

I take my Vitamin D in the morning so it is unlikely to be impacting my sleep. I have also read that adequate Vit D promotes good sleep but no sign of that so far unfortunately. As my blood test highlighted low levels I will continue with the supplements but it would be nice if it was a quick fix!

I remember when I was prescribed six pumps of gel by Newson Health I resorted to using my arms as well as my thighs. I also had to split the doses between morning and night. This regime didn't really work for me and I was switched to Sandrena gel as it is less runny. Eventually the bleeding etc began and I was told to reduce my Oestrogen.

I have always preferred using my thighs and I think it was the combination of too much gel and near arm placement that caused the initial breast pain and subsequent bleeding.

Both sleep quality and quantity are unpredictable at the moment along with my mood state the following day. No surprises there lol.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.


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Wrensong

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2023, 04:57:21 PM »

Yes Kathleen, adequate levels of Vit D are said to be important for reasonable sleep, aren't they, but I remember when I first started taking it some years ago, having tested deficient, the advice was not to take it late in the day as there was some thought it could then interfere with sleep.  Getting my levels up hasn't improved my sleep either, but then nor has anything else I've tried!

With 6 pumps of gel & from what I remember you, like me, being quite slight, there's only so much thigh to slather it on, so I can see why you'd have to resort to other body parts as well!  But yes, Sandrena is better in that respect, being more concentrated we need less to get the same dose as with Oestrogel.

You've been so patient & open to trying various doses over the years it must be very frustrating not to feel a lot better.  Again I sympathise, as although my resistant symptoms are different to yours it can feel like failure when we're not fixed.  I try to focus on the fact that I'm better with HRT than without, that I should also be getting some protection from it for heart, bones etc & rationalise that it would be expecting a lot of HRT to resolve all my meno symptoms, given the dodgy thyroid.

I hope you soon manage to achieve an acceptable balance as the mental energy involved in trying to get it sorted can be considerable.
Wx
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Kathleen

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2023, 02:47:48 PM »

Hello again ladies.

Wrensong - You are spot on in your comments and I agree that the continual effort to feel better is exhausting!

After reading another post I decided to check just how much Oestrogen I was getting from my half of a 1mg Sandrena sachet. It seems that instead of getting the equivalent of a 50 mcg patch I may only be getting a 25mcg dose.
I would say no wonder I feel rubbish so much of the time but of course I have the ability to feel rubbish on higher doses as demonstrated in the past lol.  Hey ho, perhaps my body has the ability to repel all HRT in whatever form. I could qualify as a medical marvel lol!

As for sleep I assume that you have experimented with a change of routine? I have recently introduced an earlier bedtime in the hope that if my sleep quality won't improve perhaps increased sleep quantity will compensate. Wishful thinking again but it can't do any harm.

Wishing you well Wrensong and take care.

K.
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Wrensong

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2023, 09:06:29 AM »

Hello Kathleen, yes if you're only using half a 1mg Sandrena sachet that's said to be equivalent to 25mcg oestradiol daily isn't it.

https://thebms.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/HRT-alternatives-04.11.2019.pdf

"Sandrena gel:
If taking Evorel 25: 0.5 mg Sandrena sachet a day would give an equivalent.
If taking Evorel 50: 1 mg Sandrena sachet a day would give an equivalent."

How frustrating for you if you'd been told otherwise.  Are you intending to increase your dose again to see if that improves symptoms?  At least you've kept your SOH, which is always lovely to see from your posts!

Yes, I've tried everything recommended, a good few things that aren't  ;D & a lot of lateral thinking for the insomnia over the years, but thank you for the suggestion of a new routine.  I get to sleep easily but simply can't stay asleep.  Around 5hrs seems the best I can manage & even that's badly broken.  A very sore point & has left medics scratching their heads.  I recently had a big life change that may improve matters in the long run, but too early to tell at the mo.  Will post about it at some point if it proves helpful.

Has your earlier bedtime helped at all yet?
Wx
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Kathleen

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2023, 02:40:13 PM »

Hello again Wrensong

It is my own fault regarding the Sandrena gel doses! I really should have looked more carefully at all the information. The fact that I am only using the equivalent of a 25mcg patch does make sense regarding my remaining symptoms and it is no surprise that when I was using a quarter of a sachet my night sweats and flushes returned and VA started to be a problem.  Lesson well and truly learned.

 I am not sure if I will try a full sachet now or just try and ride things out. I am becoming weary of the whole business of HRT which is why a lifestyle change such as new bedtime had such appeal.
In all honesty I am not sure of the benefits so far but I will keep to my routine for a while longer.

I am sorry that you are still struggling with sleep issues and I hope recent changes will help you. Why this time of life has to be so difficult is a mystery but you're right a SOH is absolutely essential!

Wishing you well and take care.

K.
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Wrensong

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Re: Unexpected Changes.
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2023, 05:29:29 PM »

Thank you Kathleen.  I hope whatever you decide to do you will feel better for it.
Wx
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