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[Evie606]

Aw Silverleaf, so sorry you ended up at A & E again.   
It’s shocking that you can’t get a face to face with gp for nearly 6 weeks especially given the circumstances.
Hope you get some answers from Holter and blood tests.
Likewise, keep us posted with your results.
All the best meantime, look after yourself. Xx

[Silverleaf]

Hi Evie606

Thank you for your kind words, they were very much welcomed... xx
I managed to get into seeing the GP yesterday Evie. By sheer good fortune on the GP's behalf (certainly not mine!!) I had another racing heart episode which was much worse, far higher racing heart and the symptoms were really unpleasant,  I could barely get up off the waiting room chair and was assisted to the GP's room!. That resulted in sugar levels tested ( they were normal) and being given beta blockers (Bisoprolol 1.25mg) pending a cardiac assessment. I accept that the GP wants to rule out cardiac first even before talking about "hormones".
I started the Bisoprolol today so that's going to be an interesting journey. I already have had hot flashes today that resembled the ones I had last year ( even the roller coaster tummy feel)
I do however see a similar path to you Evie, where I do believe that I will at some point be speaking with the Endocrinology dept. For now I am back in with the GP in 2 week's time, hopefully the cardiac monitor report would have been pushed out to the GP as they are chasing.  The one positive constant is my Thyroid results, which are in range and constant - reassuring to say the least  Oh and before I go, those private blood tests were interesting (But given the episode at the GP were not discussed) My Testosterone levels were above range and very high, the Oestrogen was at the bottom of the tank. The test didn't cover progesterone as it was a "menopause" test. 

I'll update again when there's been progress, and thank you for your support Evie, keep safe and look after yourself xx

[joziel]

I've had heart beating hard and faster than usual symptoms, especially bad at night - along with inner tremors.

My GP tested my thyroid repeatedly but would only do TSH and once T4 when I begged. Both those were normal. I then had a private thyroid test with Medichecks done - which again was normal, T4, T3, FT4, FT3 and thyroid antibodies.

I went off and explored all kinds of other things until some very kind person on Facebook suggested I check my rT3 (reverse T3), which was the one thyroid test not done by Medichecks.

I found an online Thyroid Clinic which offered this test (thethyroidclinic.co.uk) and had the test done - and my rT3 is staggeringly high at 32 (anything over 12 is high) and I now have an appointment in a month's time (wish it was sooner) with the clinic to hopefully get some T3. All my other thyroid results are completely normal.

Which is all to say... The NHS approach to treating thyroid stuff is so insanely shite, it's criminal. Make sure you've tested *everything* to rule out thyroid stuff. That means:

T3
T4
FT4
FT3
rT3
Thyroid antibodies.

[Evie606]

Hi Evie606

Thank you for your kind words, they were very much welcomed... xx
I managed to get into seeing the GP yesterday Evie. By sheer good fortune on the GP's behalf (certainly not mine!!) I had another racing heart episode which was much worse, far higher racing heart and the symptoms were really unpleasant,  I could barely get up off the waiting room chair and was assisted to the GP's room!. That resulted in sugar levels tested ( they were normal) and being given beta blockers (Bisoprolol 1.25mg) pending a cardiac assessment. I accept that the GP wants to rule out cardiac first even before talking about "hormones".
I started the Bisoprolol today so that's going to be an interesting journey. I already have had hot flashes today that resembled the ones I had last year ( even the roller coaster tummy feel)
I do however see a similar path to you Evie, where I do believe that I will at some point be speaking with the Endocrinology dept. For now I am back in with the GP in 2 week's time, hopefully the cardiac monitor report would have been pushed out to the GP as they are chasing.  The one positive constant is my Thyroid results, which are in range and constant - reassuring to say the least  Oh and before I go, those private blood tests were interesting (But given the episode at the GP were not discussed) My Testosterone levels were above range and very high, the Oestrogen was at the bottom of the tank. The test didn't cover progesterone as it was a "menopause" test. 

I'll update again when there's been progress, and thank you for your support Evie, keep safe and look after yourself xx

Hey Silverleaf,
Glad you got to see a gp although sorry it was the result of yet another unpleasant episode.
You’re right that our stories seem to be similar but our one difference is that my testosterone is in the floor whereas yours is high.
Biso didn’t agree with me and along with trying other beta blockers didn’t actually control the episodes. Ivabradine has been my saviour but I’m aware that it has to be given on the ok of Cardio so see how you go, hopefully Biso will help.
Sending you hugs & good thoughts. Xx

[Silverleaf]

Thank you Joziel 
I am sorry to read that you too have been experiencing a racing heart and notably in the evenings. They truly are awful events. And the saga of getting your own tests done to show that you need T3.
In my experience I was tested for the antibodies, which is Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. And I take natural dessicated thyroid, which has been grandfathered into the NHS because that was used prior to the NHS. NDT is bio identical and contains T1,T2,T3 and T4, however many endos don't truly understand what T1 and T2 does. The T3 levels were consistent in my case. RT3 has to be released by T3 hence you needing T3. I know I have gone off topic as this is thyroid and not menopause BUT, the thyroid is the second brain and its hormones, which are affected by you guessed it..more hormones!
 I hope the T3 settles things down for you and good luck with the clinic appointment.  xx

[Silverleaf]

Hiya Evie 
Hope you are well?
Thanks for sending your good wishes. Just hoping that the beta blockers buy me some quiet days waiting for the cardiology report.
Ah the testosterone results, that was Interesting to know yours was at the other side of the range,  reminding me that again everyone is unique but on this shared menopause journey.  I assume your Endo didn't comment on your ranges Evie?

Take good care xx

[dangermouse]

Hi there,

It's worth considering if this is structural, along the lines of cervicogenic headaches. If there is any tightness (or hypermobility) in your neck and/or upper back, it can restrict blood flow to the brain which causes vagus nerve (and others)  to spasm, leading to racing heart, sweating, anxiety as the brain throws out stress hormones in response to a perceived interruption in blood flow.

I have had this, and working from home made it worse, and an osteopath or chiro is the route you then need.

It is also linked with hormone changes as any surges or falls also aggravate the nervous system.

A way to check is to do lots of stretches if it happens again to see if this changes anything. Massage will normally make it worse and can trigger it (how I discovered it) and also sleeping on the wrong pillow, esp if staying over somewhere with a different pillow.

[Silverleaf]

Hi Dangermouse
That's really interesting to read your comments. I had no idea that bad posture/stiff neck had such an impact. I have read an article that C7 issues in the neck can lead to thyroid problems. 
I'll certainly raise it with the GP should the cardiology report come back inconclusive.
Thank you! Xx

[Silverleaf]

Hello 

I've taken a bit of a downward spiral in recent days, the beta blockers (whilst they are capping the racing heart to an extent) have left me really fatigued, headaches and a nausea that reminds me of morning sickness. I get intense hot flashes daily now, where on occasion my stomach "flipped" like a roller coaster before the heat rushes up through my neck and onto my face. My appetite wasn't great but now it's worse, with lightheadedness  being almost constant. In the recent hot weather, the intolerance to heat was a shocker. To me it now feels like a double whammy, the "menopause" and "beta blocker side effects". To add to the downward spiral there's no news from my local Hospital of the holter ECG monitor test done at the beginning of June, and the prospect d that I won't hear for another month at least. My Local health authority is in "special measures"  and services are patchy at best. My patience is thinning, events that started at the beginning of the year seem so far back  I'm determined to get answers. I've now resorted to private health care appointments for Endocrinology and Cardiology, to speed up answers.My sympathies are with anyone else going through the waiting and waiting and waiting for answers, you are not alone xx           

[Silverleaf]

Hi Ladies

Since I last reached out I...ended up in A&E again with racing heart and shaking. The bounce is truly leaving Tigger.  In addition to the pronounced hot flashes I now contend with have the side effects associated to beta blockers (light headed, nausea, tingling hands and feet, cold) The food exclusion list is growing impressively large, latest item is Soy Sauce. The Doctors are not  interested in the diet adjustment nor are they at the point to talk about hormones... It's cardiology for team doctors all the way.
I've had 5 ECG's, bloods and an echocardiogram and counting, so far all in range and nothing of note. I'm still waiting for holter monitor results. By the end of the month further tests are booked for heart "stress" (Exercise tolerance test and Stress test in a MRI) the MRI test I'm dreading (claustrophobia). As for lifestyle changes, I find even painting a garden fence to the point that I feel faint and need to sit down with an average resting heart rate of 55 beats per minute... Is anyone else going through what I am going through? Thanks for putting up with my saga xx 

[joziel]

Hi Silverleaf...

I am waking up at night with a racing heart, beating hard and fast. It's not skipping beats or doing weird rhythms and if I get my Kardia ECG device out I always get a normal ECG - it's just hard and fast.

I've had an echocardiogram (normal) and a few ECGs, both at the hospital and with my Kardia (which I then email to a cardiac nurse) and they have all been normal. I've taken beta blockers (bisoprolol) but they take the edge off things but don't totally stop it - so I stopped taking those after about 1-2 weeks on them.

Are you sure some of those things you list, like tingling hands and feet and being cold, are due to your beta blockers? Only because I also have those symptoms and they are def not caused by the beta blockers (I'm not on beta blockers now and still have them). All those symptoms can be thyroid symptoms too and if you have a history of Hashi-s, then I'd think you should see a thyroid specialist and get fully 100% tested on all things thyroid (free T3, free T4, antibodies again, reverse T3) and ensure your thyroid meds are optimal for you.

Your symptoms sound v similar to mine, really - except I mainly get them at night and am fine in the day. I have inner tremors, which can feel like buzzing or fizzing or tingling, especially in my feet, and my heart beats hard and loud. It's very hard to sleep through all that and sometimes I also get hypnic jerks before I fall asleep. When I do get to sleep, it's light and I wake frequently. This has all been going on for 18 months now and I'm exhausted. I refuse to take hardcore drugs like pregabalin which some doctors have tried to prescribe - because I see that as just treating symptoms and not the root cause.

The one thing I've found (as I mentioned above) is the high rT3 for me. For me, all my thyroid tests were totally normal - including the Advanced Thyroid panel which Medichecks offer - but I dug a bit deeper after someone on Facebook suggested I get my reverse T3 measured and I found it was sky high at 32. Have you had your reverse T3 tested? I had my thyroid appointment a couple of days ago (had to wait for ages!) and it was excellent (private appointment online with thethyroidclinic.co.uk ) - they are sending me some T3 to take. I have to wean onto it, take it for 6wks and then wean back off and then re-test bloods. I have no idea if my symptoms are related to hormones/estrogen or to this high rT3 but taking T3 will be a 'test' of that - if it gets better, we'll know... so it's a sort of diagnosis by trial treatment really...

Meanwhile I'm on 3 pumps of gel now and supposed to increase to 4 if symptoms continue. But I might try the T3 first as I don't want to change too many things at once or I won't know what's causing what...

The other thing to ask is what your ferritin level is. It should be over 100. Because iron deficiency can cause some pretty wacko symptoms like this too.... 

[Kathleen]

Hello Silverleaf.

I have just caught up with this thread and I am so sorry that you are having these distressing problems.  I  have had heart palpitations in the past which I assumed were meno related and so I never had them investigated. They were however milder than yours so I am not surprised that you have been to A&E. Infact some of the ones I experienced in bed at night I found weirdly comforting and it was only when someone posted about her own night time palps and said how scary they were that I realised I was having the same issues!

Sorry to ramble but I actually wanted to make a point about HRT, Hashimotos and the menopause.
I had been post meno for about eight years before I developed Hashimotos and my blood tests were normal quite quickly after beginning Levothyroxine. As we know the GPs only routinely test TSH and T4 and these were fine but occasionally I had an antibody test as well and over the course of about six months the levels also fell into the normal range. I would love to know if I am either no longer attacking my thyroid and don't need Levo anymore or my thyroid is now completely destroyed and that is why I am not making any antibodies.  I one way to determine thyroid health is to have an ultrasound which I assume an Endocrinologist could do. I wonder if this is something that would help you and it may be worth asking for.

The other point I wanted to make was that I know many women who have Hashimotos but have had a much easier menopause than me. I understand that this is a miniscule sample but it makes me think that one does not necessarily exacerbate the other. 

Since starting this 'journey' I have developed a real appreciation for the power of hormones  and how their interactions can have a huge impact on our lives. Your experience with HRT would definitely have added another dimension to your Meno and contributed to your hormonal instability.

I hope you find some answers soon and please keep us updated.

Wishing you well and sending hugs.

K.

[Silverleaf]

Evening Ladies
As the song goes "it's been a while" and I wanted to share updates in the hope that this gives some support to anyone reading this topic.
Since last updating I disappeared into a world of tests, firstly to rule out any issues with my heart ( so many echocardiograms, including an MRI under stress, which wasn't a pleasant experience). Thankfully all those tests came back normal.
 The last 7 months has been with an Endocrinologist who doesn't understand Natural Dessicated Thyroid medication, to the extent that my health went into reverse and to the point that I was diagnosed Hypo some 9 years ago. Whilst the Endo was focussed on reducing my meds resulting in bad vertigo,nausea, extreme fatigue, extreme cold extremities, low mood and could barely function, I continued to have regular blood tests (14 in all) which have only showed that my Oestrogen is rock bottom. The heart palpitations, hot flashes continue to this day.
 My GP is "concerned" that I am still experiencing the hot flashes and racing heart/fluttering despite the rapid reduction in NDT. It got to the point that I have now incrementally increased my NDT to remove some of the serious effects of being too low.
 I was also diagnosed with an Adrenal Incidentaloma in August, this (I was told) is non functioning however again my GP wants this to be reimaged in the next 2 months.
 Despite the months of tests, there have been no answers. Neither GP or Endo want to talk about what's causing these symptoms or discuss menopause and hormones. I am (I fear) stuck in a process where I feel it's now professional pride to prove it's Thyroid and not anything else. I remain on a rigid diet ( fast from 8pm to 12 noon the following day) no processed foods, no caffeine, no alcohol, no chocolate  blah, blah... But this hasn't made a jot of difference.  Thinking of getting a referral to a menopause clinic? Anyone had experiences? I could do with some suggestions before I lose my marbles or my patience (whichever goes first) Sincere thanks xx         

[joziel]

If your estrogen is rock bottom then you need estrogen. It's impossible to sort out what is causing what (for me anyway), I've had to address both things together. My current plan is to address thyroid and estrogen stuff simultaneously and once things are better symptom-wise, then to try reducing the thyroid stuff again. The symptoms are too similar for you to be able to tell what is what...

Are you on HRT? Are you absorbing it okay? It took me a while to figure out that I am a poor absorber, which then made all the sense. I am now on 6 pumps on gel, but it is only when I then split this morning and evening that I started to feel better. (Estrogen on 6 pumps is only 334pmol.) I probably need at least another couple of pumps, which I plan to increase to... My Newson GP says to aim for 400-600pmol - as that's what most women need to be symptom-free.

I really didn't believe my symptoms were estrogen related because I was increasing and increasing and these symptoms stayed the same, but not absorbing it means that makes more sense...

On the other hand, I also increased my T3 dose around the same time. So I still don't know if it's estrogen or thyroid. I say - fix both. I work with private doctors for both (expensive) because the NHS is useless....

[Silverleaf]

Hi Joziel
Lovely to hear from you and read that you are on a similar path!
I am not on any HRT, neither the GP or the Endo will discuss this topic. They believe it's thyroid, which I don't agree. The saga started after a trial of HRT, which threw me out of balance. The Endo doesn't understand the NDT he's "NHS NICE" driven, sends me for blood tests when I've taken my NDT and is obsessed with the TSH level. I agree about the estrogen, but the Endo dismissed it. thank you for the information xx