Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Silverleaf]

Hi Ladies

I'm 55 years, and was prescribed FemSeven Conti 50 patches at the start of March this year, having been switched from Evorel Sequi (twice weekly patches) earlier in January due to adverse side effects. The FemSeven are not great either. Sometimes a patch will stay in place, which results in a really bad skin reaction leaving a round raised red mark often up to 4 weeks, and in cases where the patches flake off, and are replaced due to adhesive issues. During the last 4 weeks, I've noticed headaches, constant fatigue and flushes with or without racing heart (loud beats). These often take place at night, and can vary in episode up to 25 minutes to go from hot-racing-cold almost shivering. Last week I ended up in A&E with a racing heart that did not climb down for 2 hours, resulting in bloods, ECG's and x-rays. Nothing was found (yet) but I am seeing my GP today for a cardiology referral. The "episode" has left me fatigued and light headed,headaches, spikes in heart rate, temperature fluctuations including hot flashes. With the patches reacting on my skin, I feel in a worse place than when I started HRT. I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and managed for many years successfully on NDT, so I can rule out thyroid, since I started HRT 4 months ago I'm seeing adverse effects outweighing benefits and a  frightening experience last week. Would you recommend I ask the GP to test my hormone levels, I'm no expert ....thanks for any advice ;o)     

[CLKD]

Morning.  Scary indeed!

Who is overseeing your thyroid function problems and how often do you get check ups?  This may be the best place to discuss HRT - there are several ladies here with the condition so hopefully someone will be along. 

In the meantime, stop the replacement therapy to let the body settle.  Hormone blood tests are reliably un-reliable 

MayB keeping a mood/food/symptom diary would be of use?  Let us know how you get on.

[Silverleaf]

 Afternoon CLKD

Thank you for your speedy reply! I was diagnosed Hashimoto's in late 2015, went through the usual synthetic levo which did nothing for me and moved to Natural Thyroid via a Consultant Endo back in 2018. Then of course Covid started in 2020 and all appointments switched from face to face to telephone reviews are annual and also blood tests are every 12 months. My full bloods were done February this year all within range.
 I asked to "try" HRT through the GP because of fatigue, flushes and feeling "blah". Okay thanks for giving me the advice about the blood tests being unreliable. Had hoped results would have confirmed hormone levels.  I have persevered with the patches because I didn't get a definitive answer from the GP previously to stop HRT (conversations go through the receiptionsts) however it's top of the list later this afternoon together with these painful and itchy patch marks (I resemble an Octopus attack!) having finally got an appointment. Will do and thank you ;o)         

[sheila99]

It sounds as though you're allergic to something in the patches. I developed an allergy to evorel but am fine on gel and ostrodot so perhaps ask for something different. I think there can be an interaction between hrt and thyroid meds so it would be worth a forum search. Palpitations can be due to both and high levels of oestrogen so it may not be a heart problem.

[CLKD]

I would ring the consultant's secretary for a chat to get advice.  Let us know.

If U look like an octopus, your body is telling you something, so stop what ever it is ? 

[Silverleaf]

Ah thank you Sheila99 and CLKD

I've returned from my GP, he went through the hospital notes and my blood tests especially relating to the Thyroid. ( A&E Did at the time). The Thyroid results are within range, so we've ruled that out. And as CLKD said, the GP saw no point in doing  sex hormones blood test  as any results will be unreliable. It's been agreed to come off HRT for now whilst I am referred to cardiology pending a 24 hour monitor. Then we'll review the results once known. In the meantime the GP did listen to my heart and pressure tests  despite the elevated pace ( anxious to see him) the GP was content it's a normal beat. The Conti patch was half hanging off, so that's been removed. The adverse skin reactions are common, apparently some of us react worse than others (I did say some marks were 4 weeks old). Next stop, Cardiology, I'll update when this has been done and as CLKD advised ..start that diary! keep safe x     

[CLKD]

That sounds like a supportive GP appt.? 

However, thyroid function results may be within 'limits' but further tests should be arranged if a patient continues to experience symptoms.  Many GPs are reluctant as you have probably found out ..........

Let us know!

[Silverleaf]

Hi Ladies
I wanted to share an interim update on things since I last posted, so that anyone reading this (hopefully) finds it of use?... Since the visit to the GP, I have finally had an ECG Technician's appointment to have a 24 heart monitor, but that's won't happen until early June, and also on a waiting list to see Cardiology. Having only been on HRT since early this year, I'm "cold turkey" if such a term exists for an individual who has only been taking HRT for 3.5 Months. The "dearly beloved" has said that the last 3 weeks are a marked "low mood/grumpy" and that there's a strange cycle where palpitations continue for an hour or so every 7-8 days (not as bad as the episode that landed me in A&E 4 weeks ago), then go away for a few days then starts up again. Meanwhile I follow the no caffeine and Alcohol, early to bed and avoid eating after 8pm, which has (touch wood) resolved acid reflux. I also have Hashimoto Thyroiditis, which is managed well but since the HRT experience, I am more tired than usual (lack of energy) cold at nights and tinnitus has returned. These symptoms have appeared again, and I'm assuming that my body must be working through whatever is left of HRT? With no blood Hormone tests I don't have a before and after view, this is my guess work only until I eventually see my GP after the Cardiology results are known.               

[Kathleen]

Hello Silverleaf

Than you for taking the time to update the forum.

Although you were only on HRT a short time it would have been enough to have an impact. We are generally told to give any regime three to six months before deciding if it is suitable.  The good news is that your body should soon revert to its pre HRT state so that you can start again.

Many of us have experienced palpitations and it is listed as a very common symptom of the menopause. As yours are intermittent perhaps mention this at your cardiology appointment so that your monitor can pick up on them.

Hashimotos is also common at this time of life but I understand that if thyroid levels are well managed there shouldn't be a problem.  I had been on HRT for six years before I developed Hashimotos after catching Glandular Fever. I have tried various forms of HRT but I don't think that adding thyroid meds into the mix made any real difference ( though I could be wrong of course).

Hopefully you will learn that your palpitations are just another aspect of the menopause and this symptom will settle down in time.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[Silverleaf]

Hi Kathleen
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I agee, hoping that the palpitations will settle down. Sounds odd me writing this but just before I get a palpitation,I seem to have a "sense" that its about to happen accompanied with slight feeling of sickness and a runny mouth. I don't always get that classic rush of heat but when the heart rate slows down (eventually) I always get really cold and shivering to the point that often my teeth chatter. Its an emotional roller coaster, that's the bit I dread, trying to distract your brain is easier said than done! That's rough to read your story to how you came to Have Hashimoto's.. I agree if you carry the antibody, it can get triggered by a virus,stress or trauma. Whilst hypothyroidism can throw a spanner in the works, if its managed well and (in my case) no other medical history then all eyes are pointing to HRT. Think the biggest challenge is waiting for answers... Keep safe xx

[Silverleaf]

Hi
I thought I would give an update as it's almost a month since the last ... In that time I had the cardiac monitor, which was 6 weeks since the A&E event. However I am still waiting for the results. In the meantime the most worrying menopause symptoms are the racing heart episodes, which start will an uneasy feeling and quickly develop into a racing heart, feeling sick, general weakness and a need to sit or lie down. These episodes generally happening in the evening prior to bed or in bed, and mostly end with a whole body shaking and chattering teeth for up to 15+ minutes at a time. These episodes leave me drained both physically and emotionally. On a frequency basis I can go days not having episodes then nightly for a couple of days and often one or two episodes in that particular evening. I follow a strict diet (almost childlike) no caffeine, no alcohol, no eating after 8pm and watch the carbs. It was pretty pathetic to see out a birthday with no glass to celebrate and not even a slice of my own birthday cake.
My Husband resorted to buying a private blood test kit this week , for 17 items including hormone levels and cortisol, because he's feeling the stress that these episodes cause and it's also unpleasant for our son to see who's recently returned home from university for the summer period. My Husband is away working next week, which is leaving my son anxious with what happens with "mum" situation. It's also stopped me from driving long distance related to work as we have no idea whether this is HRT "cold Turkey" or that this is something else. On a mental welfare aspect, these episodes bring high anxiety and fear, and where I used to lead a full active life, I am not doing my hobbies and interests because I fear ending back in A&E.  The lack of answers is driving a vicious circle...I hope to share the results of the private blood tests and pursue the GP next week.  If any of this rings a bell with anyone, I sincerely would like to know. Keep safe xx

[Evie606]

Hi Silverleaf,

Your episodes sound the same to the ones I experienced, mine started 2 weeks before lockdown. Blue lighted to A & E three times and they continued for months. V inconvenient!
They are so horrible and I know exactly what you mean by the feeling you get before it happens. Each episode leaves you wiped out.
Some things that helped to calm the Vargas nerve and slow things down - Get off your feet as soon as possible, drink  freezing cold water and the same splashed on your face and hands helps. Some people blow into a large empty syringe but that didn’t do anything in my case.
Coincidentally I also have Hashi’s and was on NDT for 15 years.
I can only tell you that in my case, the
Holter, ECG and Echo at cardiology were normal except for sinus tachycardia.
I switched from estrogen patches to Lenzetto, Cardio put me on Ivabradine to control the episodes (beta blockers were useless) and Endocrine got me to try a liquid thyroxine and T3 tablet combo.
3 years later, the episodes have gone. I still have the odd spike in heart rate but I don’t feel ill.
Just a side note that if you’re asked to get a blood test for Celiac Disease (which can cause episodes) make sure you eat gluten  for a minimum of twice a day for 6 weeks beforehand. My gp didn’t tell me this and I had been cutting down on carbs. Now the test is being repeated 3 years later. 
I hope some of this helps and you get a resolution soon.
Endocrine told me that unfortunately, women with thyroid problems tend to have a tough menopause.

All the best! X

[Silverleaf]

Thank you Evie606!
I am sorry to hear that you went through a rough time and I had a hunch that for so many women a thyroid problem just adds to the extra meno journey. I am really kicking myself for even trying HRT in the first place. Oddly enough I do reach for freezing ice, do the vagus nerve remedy ( hold nose, make ears pop and also cough, splash cold water, distractions ) but It doesn't do anything either.  I wear a fitbit sense 2 that tracks Heart Rate (was advised to get one ironically by A&E) and wear every day to track incidents, but this comes back normal sinus rhythm, hence me now relying on the Cardio monitor for anything else.
I do see (like you) that this will go onto the Endocrinologist, having been perfectly well on NDT prior to the "HRT" starting. It's difficult to tell whether going "cold turkey" and coming off HRT has thrown a curved ball because despite trawling for information there isn't a lot on what happens when you suddenly stop HRT and that the HRT patches are not bio identical either. One of the reasons I am on NDT is that Levo doesn't work for me, and it was a battle to get NDT prescribed, so I am very conscious that many with Hashimotos are not on NDT. I'm now looking at the impact all this has on adrenal glands hence the cortisol test. 
'll take note of the celiac disease thank you, I do eat wheat products but tend to restrict carbs as I have now found that after any meal in the last 8 weeks my heart rate rises which it never used too, there are distinct changes between HRT and off HRT that's for sure, and as advised I keep a diary. Thank you Evie, and I'll keep updating so that at least it gives comfort sharing to others who are simply at their wits end. Take care xx 

   

[Evie606]

Thank you Silverleaf, so many of us finding menopause an unexpected nightmare. So much for a few hot flushes! 

Definitely look into gluten after you saying about raised heart rate after eating.
I have this too but as I said, the gp forgot to mention the gluten loading needed before the test back in 2020. I’ve now had chronic urticaria for 5 months with a gluten intolerance type rash and the new gp asked me to keep a food diary and note of my heart rate after eating gluten. I was advised to get an Apple Watch which has been great for tracking things.
After eating gluten, it goes up to over 100 but I don’t feel ill, just itchy.
Test is in 2 weeks.

It sounds like you’re doing plenty with the ice etc. I really do hope things settle as I remember what a scary time it was.

Levo tablets didn’t work for me but the liquid is ok. Whatever works for you.
My cortisol was borderline low but the follow up test at Endocrine for Addison’s was normal.
I hope you get all your follow up tests quickly and get back on an even keel.
Yes, please update when you have any news.

Take care!  Xx

[Silverleaf]

Thank you Evie606 

Indeed Evie, I know no two people experience Menopause the same way, it's the effort you have to go too to get answers to make your life "normal". 

Sounds like things are still a challenge for you with the Gluten, and sorry that you are going through the mill in an attempt to get the tests done for (hopefully) final answers and much needed peace of mind on the Gluten front. Reassuring to read that your cortisol was borderline low and not stressing your adrenal glands. And that you managed to get a follow up at Endocrinology.

Unfortunately I ended up in A&E for the second time on Saturday, my heart rate went up and stayed there most of the day. Horrible experience, nausea, feeling faint coupled with two episodes of violent shaking and shivering. The sheer fatigue that hit me yesterday. I had blood tests for Heart, Thyroid and Liver as well as anything else and ECG too. There was nothing on the bloods or ECG that indicate a heart issue, and was advised to get a "face to face" with the GP Practice. This has now been arranged but it's 5.5 weeks away! I cannot see a GP quicker than this date. I'm now waiting for the private blood results to come through from last week, and the results from the NHS Cardio monitor from last week.  I've also removed consuming any foods with Gluten (48 hours so far)  to see if that has any impact on heart rate, too soon to tell. However, think a picture is developing where any sort of answers is going to take me months to find out...

Let me know how your test goes Evie, take care xx