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[CrispyChick]

My estrogen is spiking high during my peri and causing all sorts of debilitating symptoms. Worst of all I feel poisoned in my follicular phase.

I'm looking for information on detox herbs. I've had a Dutch test, and I don't need DIM - indeed it made me feel worse.

Both sulforaphane and calcium d glucarate worked well on my poison. Sulforaphane did lower my estrogen. But, unfortunately, both give me extreme gastric symptoms.

So, I'm looking for alternative detox options as I know I feel better if I can detox the estrogen.

Anyone help?

I've got my eye on milk thistle, dandelion or glutathione or it's precursor NAC.

I can gets lots of info on all these on the web and from US chat - but I'm hoping there's some UK based experience /recommendations on estrogen detox.

Thanks 

[CLKD]

Ostrogen is normal. One cannot de-tox the body because the kidneys are set up for that purpose.  Any additions may throw them out of balance.  MayB send an e-mail to Dr Currie for advice, there is a charge?  Then let us know.

[Scampidoodle]

I don’t think Dr Currie would be able to advise on these matters. Unfortunately. You can detox the body of estrogen, a lot of us are genetically incapable of processing out estrogen efficiently causing a build up. It can make you feel terrible, I can testify to that!

Hope you get some suggestions that help Crispy, aside from the more well known ones you’ve already tried x

[Betsy123]

How do you feel out of interest if you have too much oestragen? The symptoms always read similar to low oestrogen.

[Zoe]

Hi, from what you are saying it sounds like you are looking to support Phase 2 metabolism so your body does not hang on to oestrogen for longer than normal.

Some of us struggle to clear oestrogen due to our genetics/inadequate methylation. Often people will then introduce glutathione/NAC/Combination and activated B vitamins (as opposed to the usual B vitamins) to support Phase 2 metabolism.

Anything that you can do to support Phase 2 metabolism should help during the horrid perimenopause spikes.

[CrispyChick]

Thank you zoe - that's exactly what I'm looking for.

Do you have first hand experience of using glutathione or NAC - or a combination of both???

Betsy - for me, when either my estrogen is high or spiking, I feel dreadful. Like poisoned with motion sickness. And also a whole host of other symptoms like migraines come my way.

Scampi - thank you. I know we're in a similar place. It's good to openly talk about the peri estrogen spikes that don't seem to get much chat in the UK.

CLKD - there are many products out there specifically for detoxing estrogen - some are heralded as good detoxers for cancer cells. The main ones come from crucifous veg. You might want to read up about DIM, sulforaphane and calcium d glucarate. But absolutely, you can detox too far.

X

[Zoe]

Hi, yes, I use a glutathione complex, which includes NAC (250mg glutathione and 200mg NAC, so not very high doses). It was recommended to me by my menopause specialist after genetic testing showed a problem with metabolising oestrogen - and I knew there was an issue because I was living with it.

It was also recommended because of my experience of living with long covid. It has made a real difference in reducing the spikes in oestrogen that felt, as you say, like being poisoned. It also brought my metabolism back into line - it had been ravaged by long covid (and I don't use that description lightly!). My menopause specialist describes long covid plus perimenopause as 'dysregulation on top of dysregulation'.

So I would say it is worth giving it a try. It took a couple of weeks to kick in.

I am usually very skeptical of many supplements, but this made a real difference to me.

[Scampidoodle]

That’s really interesting Zoe.
Was it a private menopause specialist?
Can I ask what symptoms the supplements helped with?
X

[CrispyChick]

Wow. Zoe, thank you so much.

I'm very sorry to hear you're dealing with long covid on top of peri hell. 

Very interesting that your meno specialist recommended this. In my experience I've had no support from the NHS and when I resorted to a private bhrt clinic - as I wasn't tolerating progesterone, their help has been limited too. 

As per scampi's questions 

Plus - has the glutathione /nac totally removed the poison? Sulphorophane did this for me, so I know phase 2 detox is key. I'm wondering if I have a sulphur intolerance. But I'll park that.

It's taken me a lot of researching to hit on NAC and glutathione. My clinic only ever recommended dim, sulforaphane or CDG. Did your specialist go straight to glutathione /nac???

What form do you take it? Tablets or liposomal? I've even found a glutathione patch 

And, just to be clear, the combined glutathione /NAC is helping your peri estrogen spikes?

Thanks so much. Xxx

[Zoe]

That’s really interesting Zoe.
Was it a private menopause specialist?
Can I ask what symptoms the supplements helped with?
X

Hi, yes, private specialist. The problem was spiking oestrogen at what would have been pre-ovulation (obviously) and also halfway through the luteal phase. Symptoms were - sinus issues, sinus-like headache, feeling like I had poison in my veins and particularly in neck/head, neck/head pain. It was horrid and felt vascular. Obviously it wasn't poison, it was my own oestrogen but there was WAY too much of it in circulation. Maybe my ovaries' last hurrah?

I started on the glutathione/NAC and within a couple of weeks I noticed a difference - still feeling rotten around ovulation/menstruation as per long covid, but a significantly lower rise in oestrogen. Specialist said she couldn't be sure if long covid was also a contributor or not. It may have been. My metabolism, which had been shot since covid, also sorted itself out pretty quickly. Don't ask me how that works!

I now, almost 6 months on glutathione/NAC, have none of these spikes. I think it is too much of a coincidence for it to have been a natural fall in oestrogen levels especially since I then introduced oestrogel because I started having other vasomotor symptoms. I am staying on the glutathione/NAC for the time being and will review once I am in menopause.

So, I would say it may have been merry peri doing its worst, or merry peri combined with long covid, but the supplements helped (tablet form).

As with all supplements, check with your doctor (my GP was interested) and stick with a normal recommended dose. Some of the doses suggested online go way beyond what the manufacturer recommends.

[Scampidoodle]

That’s really interesting. I have an issue with Estrogen dominance but my estrogen isn’t massively high. Just relative to progesterone. My symptoms have worsened since covid, especially during ovulation and pre period. I’m taking antihistamines and a mast cell stabiliser but then don’t touch the sides when in the danger zones!

Does glutathione reduce overall estrogen levels a lot or just detox the excess? I need to be careful not to reduce too much but seem to have problems increasing progesterone to balance it.

[Zoe]

My understanding is that it helps get rid of any excess oestrogen that the body struggles to clear, for whatever reason. As we know, oestrogen can spike very high and then fall very low in perimenopause.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks so much zoe.

Reading this, and your comments on another thread, I can see we're in a very similar position - albeit I don't think my double dose of covid made any difference to my peri hell.

At my worst I get a full follicular phase of extrene motion sickness, nausea, poison. It really has been a tough 5 years.

Anyway, onwards. I'm going to try glutathione alone first I think. In a liposomal format where I can change the dose. I've been burnt too badly with the stomach issue with sulforaphane and CDG.

Out of interest, did your specialist ever suggest dim, sulforaphane or CDG? Or was it just straight to glutathione and NAC?

In terns of progesterone, I've spent a year and a lot of money trying. But it made me feel ill. I found the cream gentler. I tried utrogestan and I was unable to function.

I don't actually believe I need a lot of anything...

I take heart from your posts, that some specialists are now recognising these estrogen problems. Unfortunately I've been met with a brick wall through the NHS. I've had to turn to the US to get a lot of my info. Even on this forum I feel I've had to fight to get the point of estrogen problems in peri across - often being told it is not a thing. But now I've found some lovely ladies suffering in the same way. I hope we can help each other xxx

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I have been post meno for a long time so my  peri days and any associated Oestrogen spikes are long gone. However I want to mention the role of dietary fibre in hormone regulation as this may be of interest to you.

I understand that our modern diets provide much less fibre than our bodies require for optimal health.  One of the benefits of a diet high in natural fibre is that any waste products are swiftly removed from the body. It seems that if  unwanted elements linger too long in the digestive system they can be reabsorbed  and cause havoc. I read that this is possible with hormones such as Oestrogen so perhaps a high fibre diet would help to reduce hormonal spikes by efficiently expelling the excess hormones.

Just a thought ladies and I hope this is helpful.

Take care everyone.

K.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks Kathleen.

In the american forum I'm on for estrogen spikes /dominance and /or low prog (call it what you like) they always always upsell the benefits of a grated carrot salad. To do exactly this.

There's probably some truth in what you say, but, as you point out, our diets are way off the mark. Unfortunately when you dramatically increase the fibre load it can cause the opposite affect, so not always a solution.

But it is, very much, about detoxing then expelling that used estrogen.