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[CLKD]

What people forget is why these breeds are designed: JRs are bred for ratting, which is what all the terriers to.  [will copy and paste this into the dog breeds thread ;-) ]

Rotts, Alsations - originally bred as herding dogs .......... Rotts came across with the Romans herding the food animals on long treks as far as Germany.  Solid, a leg at each corner dogs, brave: many of the Eastern European dogs are left in the herds of goats and sheep because they have been bred with white/cream coats. 

'Lap' dogs: bred to protect the Asian Temples i.e. Llasa Apsos and Pekenise which were kept in deep sleeves ready to snap if the owner was attacked. 

Chow Chows - bred in China for the table.

Vets often get bitten more by Golden Retrievers than the suspect breeds.  It does depend on the breeding lines too. 

Under the Dangerous Dogs Act any dog that is kept as a 'guard dog' has to be either kept in a kennel or be on a leash handled by a qualified handler.  So owning any breed with the idea of it as a 'guarding' dog comes under its own set of UK Laws. 

Sorry but living in a car is totally different from keeping a Dangerous Dog bred to fight.  Never socialised.  Never given affection and many are kept under weight so that they are hungry and irritable. 

[CLKD]

The photos [not for the squeamish] of a man who put his hand out to greet a dog which grabbed his arm: it was off lead so he thought that the dog would be OK: the owner reckoned that he wasn't 'in view' so that she couldn't put her bully's muzzle on ....... so she knew that she was breaking the Law, but the dog should have been on a short lead with a muzzle on B4 it left the property. 

That dog should be taken in and put to sleep.  But of course the two owners are unknown thus far.  Years ago a dog was 'allowed one bite'.

Working dogs and show dogs have been split into two 'classes' rather than keeping breeds to what they are required to do.  Even sheepdogs now have 'show' and 'working' type.   . The working dogs are on the whole more gentle because they have to be able to pick up game without causing damage.  Hunt, Point, Retrieve do what it says on the tin: smell out game, go to point and pick up. 

Hunting hounds were bred for tracking game and vermin.  Blood hounds for tracking prisoners, now more often used to help find missing people, apparently they can find scent 10-14 days after it's been laid even in bad weather.  Even those that act a decoys for blood hounds tell that when they hear the dogs approaching - usually worked in pairs - it puts the hair up on the back of the neck!  Hounds will 'give voice' when tracking.
 
A mix of breeds have been utilised in finding lost people - so under close control they are doing a job to help the public.  Cared for and trained correctly.

[Asher]

This will always be a difficult subject, people will always believe there views are the right view , but I whole heartedly agree with jaypo , these breeds should not be allowed , of course all dogs can attack but it’s about the sheer power of these animals if a jack Russell attacks a grown adult can over power it , should an xl bully attack there’s little to no chance of two to three grown adults over powering it , if an individual wants to take a chance living with a creature like this that’s there own choice but it’s not right to put others at risk if they can’t control it , or putting other people’s pets at risk , i had a jack russell my whole life growing up and she was fiesty but very easily controlled, I’ve owned many breeds over my adult life , big and small, but to bring something like that into my home would never happen it’s far too risky, and as for owning a dog for protection because of your job seems ridiculous to me , I’m a serving prison officer and I deal with the most serious of offenders working in a male cat B prison, anyone of there friends/family could find out where I live but I don’t feel the need to own a large dog , I currently have a lurcher , I have handled dogs in a cat A prison and I know how to control an aggressive dog but to own an xl bully or the likes of one is something for my safety, my family and members of public I would never do .
the it’s the owners not the dogs prograde really get on my nerves too , sure there’s friendly xl bully’s but if that dogs instinct kicks in no one , not even the most loving caring owner is going to stop it from attacking, they are breed to fight end of , they are purely breed for fighting not guarding or hunting, it runs deep in there DNA .
I’m sick of  when I’m out walking my dog being scared to death of these huge dogs, the local woods where I am they are still being walked off lead by arrogant owners, who give me dirty looks when I pick my tiny lurcher up and walk the other way , I should not have to feel the need to do that , it’s intimidating and quite frankly very scary .
Personally and it’s only personally it should be an outright ban of these breeds.

[ElkWarning]

As I say, it's interesting, Chows are fighting dogs, but there again Freud had one.  Would you have banned him?

As for the man who put his hand out to greet a strange dog, like literally, who does that?  Here's an XL Bully, no idea where its owner is, let's give it a random stroke.

Re: the XL Bully, yeah, it's the Kimbo line, that's where the innate aggression (instinct) comes from.  The solution is simple, test the DNA, find Kimbo and take the necessary precautions.  It's just factually incorrect to say 'they are a breed to fight end of'.  There's a reason, and it involves profit.

And while some (who work in places with massive security) might find it 'ridiculous' that others with barely any protection at all feel frightened, it seems fairly obvious to me, especially as without that security they find themselves pretty intimidated and scared.

Dog licences are clearly the way to sort this out.  If you can prove that you have the right skills, and won't leave your dog alone for more than 3 hours (socialisation is basically the bottom line when it comes to bit inhibition), then sure, you're a responsible pet owner.  If you can't, then you should be banned from keeping any sort of dog.

[CLKD]

Chow Chows were never bred for fighting, they were bred as table meat.  My Uncle bred them in the 1960s.   What's Freud got to do with this thread 

Tibetan Mastiffs are the protecting dogs for the yaks as well as Monasteries. 

Dog Licence won't work any more than the Dangerous Dogs Act has done.  It will never stop back street breeding/keeping of dogs.  It will never stop the moving of dogs around in pubs/car parks. 

I always greet a dog off the lead.  The local XL is muzzled, on a strong lead and as soft as butter.  The owner knows exactly what she is doing.  I would never want a bull breed because of the history.  They weigh a ton of muscle - if my cocker could pull me over when she chased a mouse !! these dogs are all power and no one can control them.

[Asher]

Elkwarning , that’s a really silly
 statement to make regarding my position of security within my job , do you think I have personal security walking me to my car after every shift and security escorting me home and then sitting outside my house to make sure I’m safe ?
Every prison officer is vulnerable when leaving work there is only security when within the prison .

[Asher]

Also agree with CLKD , dog licence’s won’t work clearly the dangerous dog act isn’t working.
And yeah what’s Freud got to do with anything?

[Autumnwalks]

ElkWarning are you saying that no one working more than 3 hours a day outside the home should be allowed to own a dog? That's an awful lot of the population unless you always work from home, are retired or unemployed.
I don't know what job you can get for only a couple of hours a day unless you're after pin money. How do you arrive at 3 hours? My daughter had to work when she became a single parent- fortunately I Iive with them now but even I go out for the day sometimes. Would she have had to get rid of their much loved 11 year old dog?

[CLKD]

Any1 know where the 'dog breeds' thread might be, I intended to copy and past but can't find it 

[jaypo]

None of these XLs are used as guard dogs, the majority that have killed people have been pets. I have no issues with guard dogs,my own GS patrolled our garden and dare anyone come into her property when she was out and about but mostly she was a pet,a big old sop with us but when she was walked she had a harness and a halti on,which controlled her. These XLs are a completely different animal altogether,bred for fighting,nothing but muscle and teeth.
The deaths of humans are well into double figures now and don't get me started on the deaths of peoples little dogs.
I agree with Asher,complete ban on them now,the owners have had fair warning,yet deaths are still happening
Agree clkd,licensing is pointless,only the responsible people would get them 🤷‍♀️

[getting_old]

So, CLKD, what she is saying is that neither the man nor her dangerous dog were in view    so it was allowed to roam free without a muzzle. Although I do have to say that the man wasn't exactly the sharpest tool if voluntarily offered his arm to an XL!

I also agree with a total ban. A dog's instinct is to attack a weaker animal, no matter their size, but the smaller the dog the smaller the injuries are likely to be. These dogs may be total softies in their owners eye, until they aren't, and it just takes that split second for them to kill another animal or human. Owners have proven that they can't ensure the safety of everyone else and every other animal, so they can't be allowed to put others at risk. I will say that every vet I've spoken to has always said golden retrievers are the nastiest dogs, and that's been my experience too. I know one that has attacked another dog and one that has attacked 6 other dogs and the owner tells everyone it's friendly    That is one breed I would never own, and always go out of my way to avoid.

Dog licensing is definitely not the way to resolve the problems, and it's not like they assess every owner to see if they are "suitable", plus using criteria like "are you always home" is ridiculous. Plenty of dogs are happy, well looked after and properly socialised by owners who are working 9-5, whilst others are unhappy and mistreated by people who never leave the house.

I can't do the multiple quotes thing  hence the random comments 

[CLKD]

U random away.

I too have talked to Vets during the 1990s at the time the Dangerous Dogs Act was muted, who find many golden retrievers unreliable.  Terriers are treated with suspicion due to their nature.  Mine would nip first then lick to say 'sorry' .........

There are many Laws in the UK i.e. two or more breeding bitches have to be registered with the Local Authority. How will that work?  If owners don't know the Law :  no one that I have spoken too over the years since the 1980s have been aware, dog owners or not.  And LAs don't know where these owners are 

A Licensing system doesn't work.  7/6  .  Dogs roamed freely when I was a kid.  Especially if there was a butcher shop close by ;-)

 

[jaypo]

Getting-old,did you see the link I posted a few posts back? That woman was doing literally nothing to provoke that attack but she was obviously nervous when that monster of an animal came right up in her face and they sense the fear. I too agree with an outright ban,they've had their chance to prove these dogs can be safely kept but the attacks and deaths keep happening.


I have been bitten once in my entire life,by a ...........Pekingese!! 

[CLKD]

My Grans Peke was unreliable.  A Black and Tan fluff ball she was until she wasn't 

[getting_old]

Getting-old,did you see the link I posted a few posts back? That woman was doing literally nothing to provoke that attack but she was obviously nervous when that monster of an animal came right up in her face and they sense the fear. I too agree with an outright ban,they've had their chance to prove these dogs can be safely kept but the attacks and deaths keep happening.


I have been bitten once in my entire life,by a ...........Pekingese!! 

I did. I was referring to the man who decided it would be a good idea to pet an unleashed XL. You're right, they can sense fear, fraility, weakness, etc. which isn't exactly unexpected if you're approached by something like the XL. I think we'd all be the same.
When I was a child we visited friends who had a corgi that was a rescue, and very large. The dog was under the table as we all ate tea. Someone's napkin was sliding off their lap so they tried to grab it, and the dog took a chunk out of their hand