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[Mary G]

Hellosam666, welcome back from me too.  I completely understand where you are coming from and if you read my long running thread on this section on compounded hormones, you will know exactly what I mean.

It's so very wrong that you felt you were unable to share your knowledge and experience with alternative therapies on MM because all experiences have equal value and you should never feel that anyone is judging you on here.

I hope you will feel comfortable on here this time around and I look forward to hearing more about your HRT regime.

[HelloSam666]

Thank you very much Mary. And I should have acknowledged in my first post how enlightening it was to read all your posts originally when i first started out on my personal battle with menopausal symptoms - i spent a long time searching on this forum for advice on alternatives to NHS prescriptions.

It was nice to see my name mentioned by Crispy Chick whilst browsing the site today and it made me think for a moment; there will be women coming to the site looking for info/advice on different options from the standard HRT to tackle symptoms and our experience of alternative medication is and should be absolutely valid. Perhaps i was a little hasty in unsubscribing 

 

[dangermouse]

Yes we need to have more accounts of the success of progesterone therapy and creams otherwise people assume the party line that it's not effective. Great to hear it's worked for you!

There's a medical book that someone (can't remember who, sorry!) recommended on here (who then had to remove the name of it  ) which talks about therapeutic hormone dosing for doctors. It's much safer and, in my experience, much more effective.

[CrispyChick]

Totally agree ladies. I want to discuss both the alternative bhrt options AND estrogen dominance.

To have so little discussion of these issues on this wonderful forum, makes you feel abnormal and seek support elsewhere - for me, a bhrt clinic and a US Facebook site!

I'd rather chat openly with women going through similar in the UK. You few ladies on this alternative section have given me great support over the last 12 months. But there are so few of us discussing it. Such a shame.

For anyone it might help, from my own personal experience of having tried progesterone in many forms over the last 12 months I can say, beyond doubt, I'll never be able to take utrogestan. I was conked out comatosed by day 4.

Beyond doubt, compounded bhrt progesterone products are the real deal. The lozenge was far too strong for me. The cream was good. I tried an 'over the counter' (Internet purchase) prog cream and, whilst it certainly affected my hormones, I dont feel it was either as strong as my compounded, or absorption was a lot less.

Now I'm trying agnus castus - but again, noone seems to be out there 

[HelloSam666]

Thank you Dangermouse, it would be great to see that book but alas we'll never know the title.

Crispy Chick, when i briefly tried HRT, the Utrogestan completely debilitated me - think it was only a week i tried it for. Basically, this huge dark cloud came over me, I was crying, couldn't think straight. Awful time and I certainly wasn't going to wait the designated "3 months" to see how things pan out.

I think it's such a shame that women come on this forum to ask about alternative medications are told they don't work and that's that. A good example is "Poppytoast" this week on the "all things menopause" section. Hurdity advised her not to waste her money on these products and so the conversation is shut down. Perhaps Poppytoast should have posted on this section instead ;-).

[Hurdity]

When I get the progesterone cream, which should be any day from tomorrow, do people know what may happen if I use it every day of my cycle? I know we only have progesterone after ovulation normally but I struggle with the unopposed oestrogen in the first part of my cycle too, so feel I’d benefit from it but not sure if it would mess things up? I guess I have the Mirena giving me synthetic progesterone, albeit a tiny amount, every day of my cycle x

Hi Scampidoodle

OTC progesterone cream is very weak and as such it won't do you any harm because otherwise it would have to be regulated and licensed etc as per pharmaceutical products.

However as mentioned in my previous post, because you already have the Mirena, and the progestogen is absorbed systemically (it is more than a minute amount - it is just minute by comparison with oral intake of the same hormone when used as a contraceptive pill), it may well have not effect at all.

By all means - and as women on this thread are doing - use trial and error to see what works for you, but for me, I go by research evidence as a starting point - to guide as to what is most likely to be effective at a time of fluctuating hormones.

In terms of NICE Guidelines and HRT in fact peri-menopause is defined as starting when the cycle varies by at least 7 days each month - even though hormones will start to go awry before that, and so it is at THAT point that HRT is recommended. Yes some women who have lower oestrogen are recommended HRT before this point - but it won't necessarily work as it is not indicated. As for the higher and higher dose of oestrogen - I don't agree (and have never agreed) with that either - not as a blanket response to menopausal issues - apart from the documented research by the late Prof Studd, on reproductive depression.

Personally I would still prefer to suggest one of the more natural contraceptive pills such as Qlaira or Zoely to regulate the cycle than trying all these other expensive products and undergoing costly tests for progesterone - which to my mind (the tests) are unnecessary and inaccurate - except as a way of determining if ovulation is taking place in women who are trying to conceive.

Scamipdoodle - somewhere back on this thread, you mentioned reacting to the hormones in contraceptive pills but these would have been (probably!) the very strong synthetic oestrogen used in some pills and perhaps the earlier generation progestogens. Qlaira and Zoely use estradiol - bioidentical oestrogen, and newer generation progestogens so may well work for you?

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

Well Girls - I am impressed with the knowledge and experiences shared 

[CrispyChick]

Hurdity

Have you ever tried progesterone cream? How do you know otc is very weak???

I have. Both compounded and over the counter and have reported back with real life experience.

Whilst I respect your decision to only follow the research evidence (because it works for you. Lucky you!), for many of us, this hasn't worked. I think you'll find this is nearly always the starting point. So it's following that that we look to different avenues.

I politely request you let us discuss these alternatives without keep repeating your disbelief in them.

We are here to help each other. Let's keep talking ladies. 

[HelloSam666]

And this is why I got so frustrated with the forum.

Hurdity, we all know our own bodies and what has worked and what hasn't worked, my goodness we're old enough. As Crispy Chick just said and many others have already said, countless times before, prescribed HRT hasn't worked (despite trying various options). And therefore other solutions are sought. Isn't that a good thing?

This forum is (or at least I thought when first joining) was for all viewpoints and recommendations. It is not for any one member to give her own opinions as gospel truth and to discredit other peoples ideas and suggestions.

[Mary G]

Thank you Crispy, well said.

Progesterone cream/gel whether compounded or branded very definitely work 100% and I have evidence with blood tests and uterine scans.   I carry out my own studies and trials. 

There are women on MM using so called approved forms of progesterone who have reported womb lining measurements higher than mine ie over the 5mm danger line.

Careful everyone, we don't want this thread shut down as others have been in the past.

[Mary G]

This forum is (or at least I thought when first joining) was for all viewpoints and recommendations. It is not for any one member to give her own opinions as gospel truth and to discredit other peoples ideas and suggestions.

I agree, all experiences and opinions have equal value and one member should not be allowed to close down alternative debate.

[Scampidoodle]

Agree Mary G we don’t want this discussion shut down. It’s so informative!!

Welcome back HelloSam666! Thanks for coming back and contributing that’s fantastic.

Do you mind me asking if you are peri or post meno etc? So you’re on the mini pill and Progesterone and Estrogen creams. Interesting!

How much progesterone cream do you use? I’ve ordered biovea one. And do you use it through your cycle or at different times? I guess if you’re on the mini pill you may not have a cycle I guess?

I’m still waiting for it so I’m trying Dim at 100mg in the meantime. I’m on day 7 now. Migraine for first 3/4 days then ok. Feel brighter in mood and a little better but then I do have some good days.

As soon as the biovea arrives I’m going to try a small amount. It’s 20mg a pump so maybe half a pump if that works.

I agree it’s so important to have this alternative debate and this is the alternatives section after all. The US, Australia and other countries in Europe are far more clued up on hormones than here.

I’ve seen countless different people about the same problems for years now and tried every standard med/pill/gel etc etc. the reason I do a deep dive into genetics/estrogen pathways/creams etc is because mainstream medicine has failed me and there’s just more to it for some people. People are lucky if hrt just works - I’m jealous!

Let’s continue the conversation as we’re really helping each other here and have living proof from several on this thread that alternative methods are completely viable and can be life changing xxx

[Scampidoodle]

When I get the progesterone cream, which should be any day from tomorrow, do people know what may happen if I use it every day of my cycle? I know we only have progesterone after ovulation normally but I struggle with the unopposed oestrogen in the first part of my cycle too, so feel I’d benefit from it but not sure if it would mess things up? I guess I have the Mirena giving me synthetic progesterone, albeit a tiny amount, every day of my cycle x

Hi Scampidoodle

OTC progesterone cream is very weak and as such it won't do you any harm because otherwise it would have to be regulated and licensed etc as per pharmaceutical products.

However as mentioned in my previous post, because you already have the Mirena, and the progestogen is absorbed systemically (it is more than a minute amount - it is just minute by comparison with oral intake of the same hormone when used as a contraceptive pill), it may well have not effect at all.

By all means - and as women on this thread are doing - use trial and error to see what works for you, but for me, I go by research evidence as a starting point - to guide as to what is most likely to be effective at a time of fluctuating hormones.

In terms of NICE Guidelines and HRT in fact peri-menopause is defined as starting when the cycle varies by at least 7 days each month - even though hormones will start to go awry before that, and so it is at THAT point that HRT is recommended. Yes some women who have lower oestrogen are recommended HRT before this point - but it won't necessarily work as it is not indicated. As for the higher and higher dose of oestrogen - I don't agree (and have never agreed) with that either - not as a blanket response to menopausal issues - apart from the documented research by the late Prof Studd, on reproductive depression.

Personally I would still prefer to suggest one of the more natural contraceptive pills such as Qlaira or Zoely to regulate the cycle than trying all these other expensive products and undergoing costly tests for progesterone - which to my mind (the tests) are unnecessary and inaccurate - except as a way of determining if ovulation is taking place in women who are trying to conceive.

Scamipdoodle - somewhere back on this thread, you mentioned reacting to the hormones in contraceptive pills but these would have been (probably!) the very strong synthetic oestrogen used in some pills and perhaps the earlier generation progestogens. Qlaira and Zoely use estradiol - bioidentical oestrogen, and newer generation progestogens so may well work for you?

Hurdity x

Hurdity, unfortunately I’ve tried several pills over the years. Oral intake of hormonal drugs really doesn’t go well for me and the synthetic hormones flare everything up and affect my mood. Large doses of most things do. It was a surprise to me that the Mirena helped but maybe it was the local route and that it’s not ingested.

[HelloSam666]

Hi Scampidoodle and thank you  .

To be honest, i don't know where i am on menopause as i don't have periods on the mini pill - which has been like that for years since i've been taking the pill. I have at times been tempted to stop taking it just to see what happens with my periods but in the end I think, don't rock the boat is things are all okay.

I use the Biovea progesterone cream and sometimes if i'm running low when ordering the estrogen cream from iHerb, i'll put an order in for the NOW brand progesterone cream. They're both exactly the same, i find no difference. And actually iHerb delivery (from USA) to UK a lot faster than Biovea - i usually receive a parcel within 5 days and by ordering 2 products, get free delivery.

And i agree with your comments about other countries being more clued up than us. They're way more flexible on different approaches and i do wonder if the BMS are not up to date in their thinking. My GP was more than happy to let me use the OTC products.

[dangermouse]

Just to add re this:

"OTC progesterone cream is very weak and as such it won't do you any harm because otherwise it would have to be regulated and licensed etc as per pharmaceutical products."

That would only apply to oestrogen which can cause cells to grow if not reigned in by progesterone. Natural progesterone is not dangerous or been found to cause any health issues, so it does not come under the same list that oestrogen does in what can legally be sold without a prescription. The oestrogen creams sold online are very weak for this reason but can be enough of a therapeutic dose for some women.

I tried the Zoely pill and it made me feel awful due to the progestogen (artificial progesterone) contained in it but understand it may suit some women so always worth a try.

We have to remember that the drug companies behind the licensed oestrogen industry have a vested interest in keeping alternatives off the shelves - the more effective they are, the bigger the fight and the US FDA are currently trying to get unlicensed natural progesterone banned. A lot is being swept under the carpet about the safety of high dose oestrogen but doctors in the UK are starting to speak out and, even at the Newson Clinic, a doctor has recently written in an article that high dose oestrogen can be a risk to heart health. She said it is only protective when you are young (and, of course producing high amounts of progesterone).

At the end of the day, it's all about balance.