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[Scampidoodle]

This is such a shame. We are being let down by the lack of 'evidence' here in the UK.

Scampi - you know your issues are caused by high/surging estrogen. I know mine are, Dangermouse knows hers are.

It's so sad there is no support for us. Balance is very much key here. We need prog to balance our surging estrogen in peri... And beyond, as Dangermouse is finding out. It's heavily documented that progesterone goes south well before estrogen - so I don't get the thinking in the UK.

I also don't get why they'd want to throw more estrogen at us... Which is what they do here. Surely that's downright dangerous?!

I had a medichecks capillary blood test done a few weeks ago. They asked what I wanted to find out, I said I was checking my state of estrogen dominance - I then got a lecture from medichecks (whom I was paying) that estrogen dominance doesn't exist, according to the nice guidelines. Right. It just exists outside of the UK then. 

I'm not new to this... I've been battling this for 5 years. I have estrogen dominance, beyond doubt!

Scampi, you know my experience with prog cream - good brands are not 'very weak'. I experienced real changes, as does Dangermouse. Mary uses bespoke progesterone and keeps her uterine lining thin. These are real hormones. With power. Hurdity does have a point about the receptors and the progesterone /progestin competing. But give it a go?! We all respond differently.

I tried every combined pill under the sun over the course of a year... And, whilst some brought some symptom relief, they all brought new symptoms. There are a few threads about combined pills for peri on MM. That's it. That's all the NHS meno clinic could offer me. Very sad and disappointing.

At least we can talk about it and share experiences here. Xx

Thanks Crispy 

[Scampidoodle]

Dangermouse, Mary G and others - did the progesterone cream help with the feelings of physical anxiety? Sure I remembered someone saying it did! X

[Mary G]

For the sake of clarity, I should mention that I have been using Darstin since July.   It's a branded progesterone gel that I buy in Spain and it works very well indeed.   Not only do I achieve good blood levels of progesterone, it works well on the womb lining and I'm below the 5mm danger line for a continuous combined HRT regime.  I use one pump of Oestrogel and 50mg of progesterone gel every day.

The bespoke progesterone was excellent but it was impossible for the pharmacy to post to Spain due to Brexit and that is why I made the switch.

Just like the bespoke progesterone, I have not experienced any side effects with the Darstin gel and would go as far as to say I find it calming and therapeutic.

Scampidoodle, I'm not as knowledgeable on oestrogen dominance as dangermouse and Crispy but it's worth bearing in mind that progesterone tanks before oestrogen when you hit the menopause and this is the time when a lot of women develop anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia and in my case, migraines.  I don't think that's a coincidence.

[Scampidoodle]

Thanks Mary. The availability of hormonal goods seems so much better in Spain than here.

I’m prone to migraines and now anxiety and bouts of insomnia so all seems to correlate.

I’ve also developed really really painful boobs these last few months, no idea what that is. Is that high oestrogen?

[Mary G]

Scampidoodle, I agree, think there is a definite link there.  Progesterone aids sleep and is a calming hormone.

As far as I know, breast pain is mostly caused by genetic hormone instability, high oestrogen and synthetic progesterone - I developed breast pain with the Mirena coil.   I was told by my gynaecologist that oestrogen dominance in perimenopause can cause breast cysts which is why they are so common.  My progesterone gel is used to relieve breast pain amongst other things.

I would definitely try the progesterone cream.

[Marchlove]

Brilliant thread!

Thank you lovely ladies for challenging the norm and keeping us informed throughout your journeys

M x

[Scampidoodle]

Welcome Marchlove - we have to stick together and support each other don’t we! X

[Scampidoodle]

Scampidoodle, I agree, think there is a definite link there.  Progesterone aids sleep and is a calming hormone.

As far as I know, breast pain is mostly caused by genetic hormone instability, high oestrogen and synthetic progesterone - I developed breast pain with the Mirena coil.   I was told by my gynaecologist that oestrogen dominance in perimenopause can cause breast cysts which is why they are so common.  My progesterone gel is used to relieve breast pain amongst other things.

I would definitely try the progesterone cream.

Interesting re the breast pain Mary. I’ve never had it in my life until the last couple of months. It was easing and then I had covid just before Christmas and it seemed to ramp up pre period again and hasn’t gone away yet. Very uncomfortable.

I’ll eagerly await the arrival of my biovea and hope for the best! Will report back of course.

[dangermouse]

I had lots of breast cysts during peri and I had to have a biopsy as they couldn't drain one of them (but turned out ok) and they asked me if I was taking oestrogen (which I wasn't) as they obviously saw it as a high oestrogen state.

Yes, progesterone can relive physical anxiety when it's caused by high oestrogen which is a stimulant. It can also cause bursts of anxiety though when oestrogen is displaced from the tissues and re absorbed as it travels through the intestines. Many a time I had instant relief after a bowel movement!

[Scampidoodle]

I do remember when the Mirena ‘worked’ for me last time I felt instant relief the afternoon after it was inserted. Like a whole body effect and the overriding feeling was that I felt really calm and was a nicer person.

[dangermouse]

Yes it's not until the prog hits you that you realise how wound up you've been! The couple of occasions I have tried oestrogen I have ended up having a row with my partner as I wouldn't back down about something and nothing. You don't realise at the time though as you are so determined to win the argument - which isn't me at all, I can't even enjoy watching sport as I don't have the competitive gene! It reminds me a bit of when a family member has been on SSRIs and became very argumentative so there could be a serotonin connection to too much oestrogen.

[Mary G]

While reading up on migraines, depression and the ramifications of menopausal hormonal instability this quote jumped off the page for me:

The same hormones that control your menstrual cycle also influence serotonin, a brain chemical that promotes feelings of well-being and happiness. When hormone levels drop, serotonin levels also fall, which contributes to increased irritability, anxiety and sadness.

This is the link:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/can-menopause-cause-depression#:~:text=Hormonal%20Fluctuations&text=The%20same%20hormones%20that%20control,increased%20irritability%2C%20anxiety%20and%20sadness.

I think we are only beginning to scratch the surface on all the different conditions that the menopause can trigger.

[Scampidoodle]

That’s really interesting Mary. I agree we are only beginning to scratch the surface. All we are as humans are genes and hormones and there are so many factors to consider within that.

We’re all so individual and the current medical model of more oestrogen needed just doesn’t fit everyone.

Pmdd can definitely be triggered by fluctuating hormones possibly affecting serotonin.

[Scampidoodle]

Yes it's not until the prog hits you that you realise how wound up you've been! The couple of occasions I have tried oestrogen I have ended up having a row with my partner as I wouldn't back down about something and nothing. You don't realise at the time though as you are so determined to win the argument - which isn't me at all, I can't even enjoy watching sport as I don't have the competitive gene! It reminds me a bit of when a family member has been on SSRIs and became very argumentative so there could be a serotonin connection to too much oestrogen.

This feels so similar to me. I’m not competitive either and have never been irritable. Until this issue started and when my oestrogen is rising or high now I am so irritable with my family and I’m not someone I recognise. I miss feeling calm and nice!

[Scampidoodle]

I got my progesterone levels tested (on day 16 of my current 20 day cycle) and it came out as 1.65nmol/l - totally in the red! The reference range is 13-45.

I did have the Mirena in June which is probably preventing ovulation but my oestrogen is trying I think and causing issues.

Maybe the progesterone cream will help then?!