Hi pippa, I really feel for you as I'm suffering the same thing, I moved back to gel from patches last November, I've had increasingly bad joint and muscle pain, in fact it's the one problem I just can't get any relief from, I'm currently on 3 pumps was on 4 but was too much, last week I had an appointment with a rheumatology consultant and he's done a load of blood tests, xrays and sending me to physio, I do have osteoarthritis in my knees and lower spine but he is saying he suspects I have fibromyalgia, for me I hurt and ache every where, I did read on the pil that comes with estrogel that joint and muscle pain is a side effect but I really don't know, what I do know is no matter how much estrogen I use the pain gets worse not better, sorry I have no answers but just wanted you to know you are not alone , really hope you find relief because it's awful I'm 49 but feel 80 x