Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[lillith112]

That's interesting lillith. What were your symptoms when you tried the other patches? That's amazing you can go up to 75 on the Estraderm and not even half that on the others. Do you know if you're absorbing the Estraderm though? I'm not allergic to the patch, I don't have skin reactions or feel itchy or anything like that.

I will for sure check it out! Although currently seem to have a load of Estradots in the cupboard 

Joziel, within a couple of days of Evorel I had horrendous migraines that lasted 12 days, my mood was horrible, I felt very low and depressed but jittery like I had to do something, also I had very bad neck pain like all muscles in my neck had tension, sleep was horrendous too, 2 hours a night.  Then I switched to Estradot and still had migraine even on half dose.  Within 2 days back on my Estraderm all symptoms had gone !

I had a blood test years ago after 6 months on Estraderm mx50 and my levels were 210, which I was told is normal for someone on HRT. I definitely absorb it as when I come off it I get horrific bladder urgency, so bad I couldn't leave the house ! 😳

[lillith112]

Hi All

Under section 6 it has the ingredients of Estraderm

https://emc-prod-ukwest-wa.azurewebsites.net/emc/product/5839/pil

Doesn’t say if it’s made from soy or yams though.

X

Thanks Marchlove, I can't open that link on my phone, it says Error 403-Forbidden ? 😞
I've tried researching what is in Estraderm but I can't find out either.

[Pippa52]

lillith - - how are you doing?  Hope so much you are improving x

Hi Pippa52, sorry I've not updated in a while. All seems to be going ok, I'm still on half a 75 patch, so 37.5 and seem to be doing ok on it so far. The headaches have disappeared, mood is level.  I was on 75 dose before the shortage of Estraderm, I think I'll stay on the 37.5 unless any symptoms come creeping back. I feel no different now to when I was on the higher dose, very weird !  🤔

I'm glad to read you are improving and are able to increase your dose, fingers crossed you see good results ☺️

lillith - so so pleased to hear you are feeling better.  Hopefully that dose is the right one for you now.  Great news that the lower dose seems to be working well for you
My first day on the higher dose and not feeling great rotten night bit spaced out and headachey and shaky but definitely less anxiety so that is definitely a bonus. I expected to not feel great today as any change is dose always hits me.  Fingers crossed your feeling better remains xx

[Pippa52]

Lillith, snap I'm also on 37.5 now.

Pippa, I didn't realise you had a history of endo. That sounds really difficult and more widespread than mine. Mine seemed to be what they call superficial, no adhesions, just a few patches of it at the laparoscopy and none on my ovaries. And it seems to respond well to suppression with progesterone.

I've done 3 nights at the new 37.5 dose. It's MUCH better. Although I still occasionally semi-wake, and in half sleep realise I feel a bit throbby, but make myself go back to sleep again and it seems to stop again. When I am throbbing(!), the entire mattress no longer seems to be moving  and it seems to be mainly in my hands that I feel it, and much much less than on higher doses. There has definitely been a massive improvement since reducing the estrogen dose. It's not 100% resolved and I'm just hoping it goes away as I don't want to reduce further.

I do feel like a bit of a "failure"  for not being able to tolerate a higher dose. I mean, if I was only 233nmol at 50 I don't really want to think about what I am at with a 37.5 patch. I don't understand why I can't tolerate a higher dose. The only thing I can randomly imagine is that I was on the desogestrel POP for 9 years which kept my estrogen levels very low. And so this is a big change.

And then I get very confused... Because I did some research (dangerous!), and I don't get this: Apparently POPs are bone-safe, including desogestrel and levonorgestrel which are the two I've been on. But the levels of estrogen they caused in women were around 50-170nmols. And there are some studies which claim that for HRT to protect bones, you need at least 250nmol to maintain bone density. (And 400nmols to improve it.) So how can the same estrogen levels be bone safe on POPs and cause bone loss on HRT?? It doesn't make any sense. Like so many things in women's health.

And then.... there are many other studies looking at low dose HRT which found that any dose at all, even very very low dose estrogen, protects bones. And then there is this whole discrepancy with the BMS saying you should just treat for symptoms and forget about serum estrogen and not even test for estrogen until someone wants over 100mcg patch for symptom control. And meanwhile other doctors trying to achieve certain minimum serum levels.

Really, to be on the safe side, I would like to be able to tolerate at least a 50 and be around 250nmol. But I just can't. So I feel like a failure. 

joziel - no way are you a failure.  Our bodies are all so different in the amount of oestrogen etc we need.  Probably your own ovaries are still making quite a bit of oestrogen too maybe so that may possibly be why you need less from the patch?  Our bodies are very clever and it may be that it's telling you that at this point you don't need the extra bit to take you up to a 50 patch?  I certainly do feel a general improvement being on a lower dose as like you the higher doses really made me feel rotten and sleep became a distant memory!! Regarding bone strength have you had a dexa scan done at all?  xx

[joziel]

I’m too afraid to have a dexa  I’m already doing everything I can for my bones and I can’t increase estrogen so even if I got a bad result I’m not sure it would do anything except worry me.

I’m going to ask my Newson doctor about Estraderm - although it’s not listed on their drop down repeat prescription list. And it only comes in 50 and 100…

I don’t think my own ovaries are producing anything much because I have to suppress them to keep endo away. That’s why I was taking desogestrel and now double the utrogestan instead. All that should mean they’re not making much themselves. Even on 100mg utrogestan and no desogestrel I was only 233nmol on a 50 patch 

[Pippa52]

joziel ....- I totally hear you re the dexa scan   To be honest they wanted me to have one but I declined.  Like you I am doing all I can for my bones and I didn't particularly want another xray dose I've had enough in the past though various procedures. Ah understood also about your ovaries and suppressing them due to the endo.  When I first got endo they gave me some horrendous injection which made me feel awful - can't remember what it was but I refused to have another one but I know it was to suppress my ovaries. I am so so glad that you are starting to feel better on the lower patch and also getting more sleep that is such a positive step forward.  Great idea re Estraderm too it certainly seems to suit lillith .  I actually just looked up what Lenzetto is made from and it is from yams but it is definitely weaker than the Evorel was.  3 sprays of Lenzetto is the same as two pumps of Oestrogel so I am apparently still on a lower dose than I was when I was on Oestrogel.  I can only assume that for me Lenzetto seems to absorb better as my level on 3 pumps of Oestrogel was only 98 whereas with only one and a half sprays on Lenzetto last October it was 240..  xx
[/quote]

[joziel]

Pippa that's great. If I did try something else, I might try the Lenzetto. I like that you don't have to rub it in.

I've ordered a skipping rope so I can try to do 5-10mins of skipping a day. I already work out 4x a week, but it's mainly free weights and strength work, it's not much cardio or impact stuff, so hopefully the skipping will help there. Then I've really done all I can in terms of lifestyle, diet and supplements and estrogen.

The injection they gave you was probably Zoladex or similar, a Gnrh agonist or whatever (can never remember how to spell that) which puts you into a temporary menopause. It's pretty hardcore. It really helps with endo but obviously has all these other side effects due to sudden lack of estrogen. Luckily I didn't need that, I was okay with the POP.

[lillith112]

I’m too afraid to have a dexa  I’m already doing everything I can for my bones and I can’t increase estrogen so even if I got a bad result I’m not sure it would do anything except worry me.

I’m going to ask my Newson doctor about Estraderm - although it’s not listed on their drop down repeat prescription list. And it only comes in 50 and 100…

I don’t think my own ovaries are producing anything much because I have to suppress them to keep endo away. That’s why I was taking desogestrel and now double the utrogestan instead. All that should mean they’re not making much themselves. Even on 100mg utrogestan and no desogestrel I was only 233nmol on a 50 patch 

Joziel, Estraderm comes in mx25, mx50, mx75 and mx100. 
They are bigger than the other patches and are renown for not sticking well, but mine stick like glue after washing area in warm shower with Simple soap, drying thoroughly then holding in place on butt cheek for 30 seconds. I wear them in hot baths, showers and they don't budge. ☺️

[joziel]

Oh really, that’s good to know. When I googled it just came up with 50 and 100 but maybe that was old info. 

[Pippa52]

joziel - for your interest this is what the Meno consultant put in her letter to me...
 ''Unfortunately you were unable to get hold of Lenzetto due to the shortages and your GP switched you to Evorel 50 twice  weekly.  You have had some very unpleasant headaches since then and were concerned that the dose was too high, which is certainly a possibility as Lenzetto is generally a very low strength HRT which is one of the reasons I prefer it compared to transdermal patches and gel.  I changed your medication to Estradot patches as Lenzetto remained unavailable - these are generally better tolerated that Evorel and Estradot has a patented and different hormonal delivery system with a better adhesive.  At this stage it was all trial and error and my long term advice would be to get back onto Lenzetto in the future when supplies stabilise.''(** this was 6 weeks ago**)  After my last consult with her 2 weeks ago she advised going back onto Lenzetto at 2 sprays but a few days ago with her permission I upped it to 3 sprays.  Just thought the above might be of some interest to you should you ever decide to change delivery methods in the future.  Hope so much you are continuing to feel better on your 37.5 dose xx

[joziel]

Thanks Pippa. That's interesting about her preferring it because it's low dose. I'm not sure what that means  because you can of course make it high dose by doing more squirts or it, or even make patches lower dose by using smaller ones 

I'm doing okay. Nighttimes have got a lot better, in that when I wake up, I go back to sleep immediately - I'm not lying awake for hours. But I am still waking up a few times during the night. So it's much better but it's not like sleep used to be, pre-HRT.    I don't know if I should just accept this as the 'new norm' - after all, I am getting some sleep. 

[Pippa52]

joziel - so glad to hear your sleep is improving.  Just goes to show you were so right to lower the dose.  Hopefully as time goes on it will continue to improve too.  My is also slowly improving. Last night was a pretty reasonable night compared to past ones.  Like you I wake up still several times but also now go back to sleep again reasonably quickly and so far no fast heartbeats.  Here's hoping we are on the road at least to a gradual improvement xx

[lillith112]

Oh really, that’s good to know. When I googled it just came up with 50 and 100 but maybe that was old info. 

Oh how odd, I've been getting the mx75 for a while now, I just cut it in half to get the 37.5. my Aunty is on the mx25 and has been for decades.

I'm glad both of you are improving on your new dose. Patch change tonight for me.  I notice you both say you are sleeping better, well my sleep is always horrendous, some nights I only get 2-3 hours 😞 I wonder if my estrogen levels are just too low 🤔

[Marchlove]

Personally I do better on a very low dose of estrogen. Every time I tried to increase over the years things got worse, not better.

This is not the same for everyone, probably all to do with genes, but finding your sweet spot is an art form I feel. X

[Pippa52]

Oh really, that’s good to know. When I googled it just came up with 50 and 100 but maybe that was old info. 

Oh how odd, I've been getting the mx75 for a while now, I just cut it in half to get the 37.5. my Aunty is on the mx25 and has been for decades.

I'm glad both of you are improving on your new dose. Patch change tonight for me.  I notice you both say you are sleeping better, well my sleep is always horrendous, some nights I only get 2-3 hours 😞 I wonder if my estrogen levels are just too low 🤔

Hi lillith - so sorry to hear about your sleep.  Really feel your pain as my sleep has been utter rubbish for some time.  Never have been a great sleeper but lately it was awful so just hoping the improvement continues.  Re your oestrogen levels I can't remember have you had any blood levels done?  I know they are only a guide and symptoms are what count but it would I guess give you a baseline to work from.  Having little sleep makes it so hard.  Its like jet lag but without the nice part of a holiday Have to say I've not been too great today grotty headache but nowhere near as bad as they used to be on the other HRT  xx