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[lillith112]

Arrrr I'm so frustrated, was switched to Evorel 75 due to shortage of my Estraderm, got continual migraines, then changed to Estradot. I'm getting mild headache at night, but I cannot sleep, I feel wired and irritable, and during the day I feel like I need to be doing something. It's a horrible feeling 😞

I'm wondering if I am maybe absorbing the estrogen better in Estradot and it's now too high, or maybe I'm not absorbing at all. I could scream as I don't know what to do. I'm considering cutting 1/4 off at next patch change ? 😭

[Nas]

In truth, it’s a minefield!

Estradot are tiny, so maybe try the 50 dose, rather than the 75 for a while?
Try to stick with it for a few weeks, as only time can tell If you are absorbing or not.

 I was on evorel 75 for ages and am not finding them as effective.
So now, have switched to evorel 50 and 1mg sandrena! It was just an experiment that I did yesterday really, but got so much done and got up full of beans. Didn’t sleep well at all  so who knows! Tomorrow will probably be a different story altogether!

Hopefully Estraderm will be back soon for you.

Xx

[lillith112]

In truth, it’s a minefield!

Estradot are tiny, so maybe try the 50 dose, rather than the 75 for a while?
Try to stick with it for a few weeks, as only time can tell If you are absorbing or not.

 I was on evorel 75 for ages and am not finding them as effective.
So now, have switched to evorel 50 and 1mg sandrena! It was just an experiment that I did yesterday really, but got so much done and got up full of beans. Didn’t sleep well at all  so who knows! Tomorrow will probably be a different story altogether!

Hopefully Estraderm will be back soon for you.

Xx

Thanks Nas, that's great you had so much motivation, but not so good being unable to sleep !

Today I have urgency to urinate like I have cystitis, this has happened before on the gel as I didn't absorb it so think my symptoms are lack of estrogen 😞 I must not absorb the Estradot very well. I have very tense neck muscles at night too and face muscles feel tension in them.

I will have to ring my Dr surgery yet again and ask for Estraderm if in stock. What a nightmare 😭

[Nas]

Ah if the bladder is kicking off, it’s lack of oestrogen then.

What a shame for you. Can you get Estraderm online with your prescription?

[lillith112]

Ah if the bladder is kicking off, it’s lack of oestrogen then.

What a shame for you. Can you get Estraderm online with your prescription?

I'm not sure, I've never actually tried to get the prescription online.

The problem is I was also getting bladder symptoms creeping back on the Estraderm as well 😞 I had an appointment with the hrt nurse and she gave me some tiny tablets to use internally. I've not tried them yet but looks like I will have to start.

[Pippa52]

Lilith… Felt exactly like you did on the Estradot. It’s even worse at night wake up with a jolt pounding heart horrible anxiety sweats and shakes then can’t go back to sleep at all ….yesterday was so bad I’d had enough I just couldn’t function plus the fact unfortunately I have started reacting to the glue in the patches with horrible big red itchy weals underneath where they were. AnywayI couldn’t hack it anymore so I ripped off the patches and went back onto Lenzetto 12 hours after removing the patches. The patches to me seem an awful lot stronger and I felt constantly wired , jittery and headachey  plus very low mood. It’s so difficult to know if it’s too much or too little
I already had a blood test booked tomorrow and thankfully a telephone consult with the meno consultant on Tuesday so it will be very interesting to see what she says. I would’ve had to stop the patches anyway because of the severity of the skin reactions I really really hope you start to feel better soon. I am beyond fed up with all this as I am sure you are too. Sending love and empathy x

[lillith112]

Lilith… Felt exactly like you did on the Estradot. It’s even worse at night wake up with a jolt pounding heart horrible anxiety sweats and shakes then can’t go back to sleep at all ….yesterday was so bad I’d had enough I just couldn’t function plus the fact unfortunately I have started reacting to the glue in the patches with horrible big red itchy weals underneath where they were. AnywayI couldn’t hack it anymore so I ripped off the patches and went back onto Lenzetto 12 hours after removing the patches. The patches to me seem an awful lot stronger and I felt constantly wired , jittery and headachey  plus very low mood. It’s so difficult to know if it’s too much or too little
I already had a blood test booked tomorrow and thankfully a telephone consult with the meno consultant on Tuesday so it will be very interesting to see what she says. I would’ve had to stop the patches anyway because of the severity of the skin reactions I really really hope you start to feel better soon. I am beyond fed up with all this as I am sure you are too. Sending love and empathy x

Pippa52, thanks for your reply, just like you my mood the last few days has also been very low to the point I feel quite depressed. I'm tempted to cut 1/4 off the next patch on Tues morning to see if that makes any difference due to too much estrogen. But then today I've had bladder urgency which I know I definitely get on low estrogen. I feel in limbo as I don't know what to do. I'm even considering buying some of my old Estraderm patches online albeit quite expensive 😳

Pippa, I would be very interested to see what your estrogen levels are, and what your menopause specialist says, I wonder if our symptoms are due to low or high estrogen, your symptoms are certainly similar if not identical to mine. Is Lenzetto a gel ?  See I tried Estrogel a year or so ago and I didn't absorb it at all.

Sending love and empathy right back at you 😘 x

[joziel]

Lillith - you should treat the bladder symptoms with your local estrogen - Vagifem - which I think is what you mean when you say 'tiny little pills' you've been given but haven't used yet. Your entire body may not need or want more estrogen, but your bladder might.... If you treat with local estrogen down there, then you probably won't need to increase systemically.

20% of women on systemic HRT will also need local estrogen. IMO you can't judge how much systemic estrogen to use from your bladder or VA symptoms, you can treat those separately to the rest of the body. And it might be best to have bloods run to check levels as then you will know what that says in terms of too much or too little...

Pippa, please let me know how things go for you with your phone consult because I have similar symptoms to you - and just like you, last night was awful. (Maybe the heat makes it all worse?!) I'm also curious to know if you get different response on the spray compared to the patches (I'm on Estradot) - I've been assuming it's all estrogen/all the same, and would all cause me to react the same way but maybe that's the wrong assumption. So if you do better on Lenzetto, let me know!

[Pippa52]

lilleth, yes of course will let you know what Meno lady says tomorrow.  I had my blood test today so should get results in a couple of days apparently.  I started back on Lenzetto which is a spray the day before yesterday.  Felt awful yesterday and the night before but last night dare I say it I actually SLEPT.  Yes I woke up with the panic jittery feelings a few time but last night no palpitations and today I am beginning to feel better. I won't celebrate yet though as have had good days before only to plunge back to feeling grotty but I certainly don't feel anywhere near as wired and jittery as I have been over the past 9 weeks or so.  I started back on 2 sprays of Lenzetto which is less oestrogen dose than the patches I was on so maybe just maybe the dose was too high.  I would have had to give up patches anyway due to the skin re-action I was getting.  Will of course let you know what happens tomorrow.  I was so like you feeling so wired and jittery on Estradot but have to say (so far) having changed to Lenzetto that is markedly subsiding.  How are you feeling today?  Did you cut off a bit of  your patch? xxx

[Pippa52]

joziel..............'Pippa, please let me know how things go for you with your phone consult because I have similar symptoms to you - and just like you, last night was awful. (Maybe the heat makes it all worse?!) I'm also curious to know if you get different response on the spray compared to the patches (I'm on Estradot) - I've been assuming it's all estrogen/all the same, and would all cause me to react the same way but maybe that's the wrong assumption. So if you do better on Lenzetto, let me know!'.. (sorry not sure how to do on here the paste option it doesn't seem to be the same as Whats App)

Hiya, - had my blood test this morning and yes of course will let you know how the consult goes tomorrow.  I have most definitely started to improve since ripping off the patches.  Yesterday I felt dreadful but last night I actually slept - yes I woke up a few times with the jittery panicky feeling but it didn't progress to palpitations.  Today I have felt noticeably less jittery as the day has worn on, have more energy and just feel generally better than I have been for many weeks.  I won't celebrate at all yet as have had better days before only too be plummeted back to feeling awful.  I am on 2 sprays of Lenzetto (used to be on 1 and a quarter) which is quite a lot less than the Estradot patches I was on (same dose as you are) and I am seriously thinking that the dose was just too high for me.  I have not had a headache today either which is a huge bonus to say the least.  Was feeling so miserable and grotty recently on the patches but mood has lifted a lot today (probably actually getting some sleep helped a lot too)  I did hear that the oestrogen (although the same drug as such) can be made from different things (mexican yams, soy etc etc so I guess that could have a bearing too.)  Certainly with both Evorel and Estradot I re-acted badly to both and on varying doses as well yet after only 2 days on Lenzetto I have had an improvement. I'll get back to you tomorrow and let you know how things are progressing etc.  How are you today?  Is your diet helping?  xxx

[joziel]

Alas, no change with the night time symptoms on day 5 of low histamine diet so far. I am trying not to get too depressed by reminding myself of everything I will be able to eat again at the end of 2 weeks...

I do think I am coughing less after eating and my eye is watering less so it is very possible I have histamine intolerance to some degree and I'm going to make a few simple changes and add in a few supplements to help with that - but I don't think the solution is diet-based/improving the gut, I think it's down to estrogen causing the mast cells to degranulate and off-load their histamine (which is what it does).

So you are now on 2 sprays on Lenzetto? That would be the same as a 50 patch. And before I think you were on 62.5 on the patches? So you've reduced a step, but not a load. And when you had your bloods run, how much estrogen were you on then - was that back on the Lenzetto at 2 sprays? If you'd only just removed the patch, you might still have had circulating estrogen from that...?

Remind me again, why did you increase your estrogen on the patches up to 62.5 from 50 in the first place?

[Pippa52]

joziel...... thanks so much for your update.  Glad to hear that you feel that you feel your eyes are watering less and so hope that as you continue on the diet that maybe other things will improve but so sorry to hear that your night time symptoms have not changed as of yet    Yes am on 2 sprays of Lenzetto.  I removed the patch on Saturday morning and had the blood test yesterday and apparently 'estradiol has a short half-life (approximately one hour), serum concentrations of estradiol and estrone returned to baseline values within 24 hours following removal of the patch' so hopefully the patch dose would have cleared my system by Monday.  Meno consultant was fab and wants me on 2 sprays for 4 - 6 weeks and then depending on how the symptoms are I can increase if needs be to 3 sprays if needed for symptom control. At 8 weeks she wants another blood test and will review things with me then.(my last blood test in March 2022  on Lenzetto one and half sprays was 140 previously on Lenzetto in Oct 2021  it had been 243 which is the level she would like me to get nearer to) For some reason I really felt the patches gave me a real whallop of a dose particularly on the next day after a patch change but then ran out quickly on the 3rd day - very strange.  I haven't had that effect on Lenzetto either now or before so maybe for me the spray is a better form of delivery - everyone absorbs it a different rate I guess.  She has ordered me some Lenzetto as supplies are still short but thankfully I have enough to last for a while.  I was told to start on 50 on the patches and work slowly up to 75 which was what I was doing but with the exception of a few better days I was feeling worse and worse and the skin re-actions were the final straw as they were big red weals very hive like.  I know its the same drug i.e. estradiol hemihydrate but she did say too that different HRT is made from different ingredients so I suspect that also has a bearing on how they are absorbed or how they work in different people.  Just feel relieved having talked to her to have a plan in place.  I did sleep better again last night too and no fast heartbeats but I won't hold my breath until several months down the line.  She did also say that oestrogen receptors take a while to calm down when swopping treatments and levels of course.  Hope so much you can get some more positive results from your diet I think you are being amazing trying it so at the very least even if it doesn't help you can rule diet out as a treatment.  xxx

[Pippa52]

lillith

Pippa, please let me know how things go for you with your phone consult because I have similar symptoms to you - and just like you, last night was awful. (Maybe the heat makes it all worse?!) I'm also curious to know if you get different response on the spray compared to the patches (I'm on Estradot) - I've been assuming it's all estrogen/all the same, and would all cause me to react the same way but maybe that's the wrong assumption. So if you do better on Lenzetto, let me know!
[/quote]

Hi lillith - just to let you know I had the consult this morning and she was really great. Also had the blood test yesterday result will come back in a couple of days.  She has told me to stay on 2 sprays of Lenzetto for 4 - 6 weeks and then depending on symptom control and how I am feeling I can go up to 3 sprays if needed and than at 8 weeks she wants another blood test and will review me again.  For me the patches seemed to give me a real whallop of a dose the day after and then the next day felt as though it was running out - really strange.  I also felt really unwell on them pretty much most of the time and the longer I was on them the more down plus the nights were really horrible with the very fast heartbeat episodes. I have not had them so far on the Lenzetto even though it is a lower dose than what I was on with the patches.  I have also slept the last 2 nights with no fast heartbeats but won't hold my breath until several months in this time! It is of course early days but so far so good. She said it takes a good while for oestrogen receptors in the body to calm down after dose or different treatments have been changed. I was on Lenzetto previously but had to swop to the patches when it became unavailable.  Clearly I was then on too low a dose of Lenzetto as only 1 and half sprays and now on 2 and possibly up to 3 at some point if needed.  I certainly feel calmer and headache much less severe plus more energy but time will tell.  I do like the delivery of Lenzetto it's really easy to apply.  How are you feeling today? xxxx

[joziel]

Thanks for the update Pippa, that is all such useful info - especially about the patches giving you a lot at the start and then wearing off. I've heard that from other people as well.

How much into menopause are you, by the way? I am just wondering if my previous 233nmol on the 50 patch would be okay after all. But perhaps you are much older than me (I'm 44yo), and that's why your doctor thinks that is okay...? I think younger women need more estrogen and until 51 I should get something like what I'd be getting from my own body. Which is why reducing patches worries me. 

And do you need to rub the Lenzetto in, or do you just spray it on your arm with the funnel thing and that's it? Because I think I'd prefer that over rubbing Oestrogel everywhere.

So just to check, you are now on a higher dose of Lenzetto than you've ever taken before (although only 2 sprays) and feeling better? And you didn't try reducing the 62.5 patch to 50 patch? Because of the skin irritation, you just ditched the patches?

[lillith112]

Just been reading your updates ladies.

Sunday night I had another terrible night, had a headache through the night, neck tense and painful and my eyeballs hurt. I did check my blood pressure which was fine. Just couldn't sleep again. So anyway yesterday I got my daughter to help cut off part of the patch that I was wearing, peeled 1/4 of it and cut it off. I did manage some sleep and my headache definitely wasn't so severe. Today I feel more ' normal' and not low like the last few days.

So today was patch change day and I have cut 1/4 off this one, let's see what happens !

Pippa52, that's great that you are improving on the Lenzetto estrogen. I curious to find out what your estrogen levels are. I'm convinced now that Estradot is stronger or I'm absorbing more of it than my old patch.