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[lillith112]

Lillith - you should treat the bladder symptoms with your local estrogen - Vagifem - which I think is what you mean when you say 'tiny little pills' you've been given but haven't used yet. Your entire body may not need or want more estrogen, but your bladder might.... If you treat with local estrogen down there, then you probably won't need to increase systemically.

20% of women on systemic HRT will also need local estrogen. IMO you can't judge how much systemic estrogen to use from your bladder or VA symptoms, you can treat those separately to the rest of the body. And it might be best to have bloods run to check levels as then you will know what that says in terms of too much or too little...

Pippa, please let me know how things go for you with your phone consult because I have similar symptoms to you - and just like you, last night was awful. (Maybe the heat makes it all worse?!) I'm also curious to know if you get different response on the spray compared to the patches (I'm on Estradot) - I've been assuming it's all estrogen/all the same, and would all cause me to react the same way but maybe that's the wrong assumption. So if you do better on Lenzetto, let me know!

Joziel, yes it's like vagifem, but a different make. I only had bladder symptoms the one day then it disappeared. The more I research the more I think Estradot is stronger and maybe better absorption than my old patch, same with Evorel, I had horrific migraines daily with that patch, I felt wired like I'd drank 30 strong coffee's

It's certainly a minefield all of this 😞

[Pippa52]

Hi joziel



I am a lot older than you - positively ancient at 69    Had a surgical menopause at 42 and have been on Oestrogel for all those years until last year. So yes I will need much less of an oestrogen level than you (Meno consultant says to aim for around or near 240 for my age). 
No you don't need to rub Lenzetto in you just spray it on your inner forearm and it literarily dries in under 2 mins... could not be easier to use.  You are not supposed to shower or swim for an hour after applying otherwise you forget it's been put there. It does say not to apply sun cream just after it either.

I was on the 50 patch and was advised to work my way up to a 75 slowly which is what I was doing but for me personally I think I must have absorbed from the patch very fast as I got a real kick the next day and felt very OTT all day as well as unwell but the following day came down with a bump and felt grotty too. Like you the nights were beyond horrendous and I got to the state of dreading going to bed however tired I was.  I did try to leave the patch on for 4 days once but that really did  not work for me.  I came off the patches because a) I honestly felt so ill on them any type of better day was rare and never lasted and b) yes I got a very severe skin re-action/hives itching etc and red weals.  I suffer from dermatitis and mild eczema anyway and my skin decided to seriously protest against the adhesive.  I had to apply some hydrocortisone ointment for a couple of days to take down the re-action. Day 4 today on Lenzetto and a mild headache only and slightly jittery but nothing like I was and so far (fingers crossed) no fast heartbeats.  Yes 2 sprays is half a spray higher than I was on before. Early days so will wait till the 4 - 6 weeks point before I can be more sure that Lenzetto will work well for me. My body needs time to level out!  How are you feeling today? Hope so much things are starting to improve for you xx

[Pippa52]

lillith - I'm so sorry you had such a rough time I really feel you pain and nigh times are just the worse as well - they seem endless sometimes when you are feeling that rotten.  I hope so so much that cutting a quarter off your patch will really help you start to feel better.
I totally agree with you I think Estradot is stronger (its definitely stronger than the Lenzetto) either that or having a patch on makes absorption better maybe?  I will let you know what my blood test comes back at but am expecting it to be way off what it should be having just swopped over to Lenzetto but the consultant wanted to check it and then wants another one 8 weeks in to see if things are getting to a better level and symptoms are subsiding - well I can but dream!!! How are you feeling today? xx

[lillith112]

lillith - I'm so sorry you had such a rough time I really feel you pain and nigh times are just the worse as well - they seem endless sometimes when you are feeling that rotten.  I hope so so much that cutting a quarter off your patch will really help you start to feel better.
I totally agree with you I think Estradot is stronger (its definitely stronger than the Lenzetto) either that or having a patch on makes absorption better maybe?  I will let you know what my blood test comes back at but am expecting it to be way off what it should be having just swopped over to Lenzetto but the consultant wanted to check it and then wants another one 8 weeks in to see if things are getting to a better level and symptoms are subsiding - well I can but dream!!! How are you feeling today? xx

Pippa52, are you seeing a menopause specialist ? My Dr has never suggested any blood tests for estrogen levels. I know you can buy home tests and have them done privately, I'm tempted to do that. I've just been looking up the Louise Newson clinic, it's driveable distance from me, so expensive though 😞

I've felt pretty good today, I changed the patch an hour or so ago, I'm hoping I don't get a surge of estrogen and have a sleepless night 😐

[Starbaby]

I have been switching between estrodot 75 and Estraderm 75 depending on what my pharmacy can get hold of. I really notice the difference although in theory they are the same. My inexpert take is that estrodot comes through more strongly, but I may be wrong.

OP if we could someone arrange to swap I’d happily send you my Estraderm in return for your estrodot.

[lillith112]

Well I cut 1/4 of the patch down late yesterday evening and it was unfortunately another night of headache (not as severe as full patch bit still painful), eye ache and insomnia. The change of patch must have caused a surge in estrogen, it's the only thing I can think of.
Yesterday was the only good day I had and that was because the patch had probably lost it's strength after 3.5 days. I checked Boots prescription checker and my old Estraderm patches still say out of stock 😭

[lillith112]

I have been switching between estrodot 75 and Estraderm 75 depending on what my pharmacy can get hold of. I really notice the difference although in theory they are the same. My inexpert take is that estrodot comes through more strongly, but I may be wrong.

OP if we could someone arrange to swap I’d happily send you my Estraderm in return for your estrodot.

Statrbaby, what symptoms have you had to make you think Estradot estrogen comes through more strongly ?  I think you are totally correct in saying that.
Can you still get Estraderm from your pharmacy ?  I'll send you a private message.

[joziel]

Well it gives me hope that I could ask to try the spray or gel….

[Pippa52]

Lililith yes I am seeing a meno consultant …. Completely agree it is expensive but I got to the end of my tether getting nowhere last year. I am not sure where you live …  it’s a telephone consultation I have but it’s very thorough and she sends me to a clinic to have the blood tests done.  Hand on heart it’s the best thing I’ve ever done going to her because I was just completely lost as to what to do before.  That is good to know that Dr Newson‘s clinic isn’t too far from you at least it does give you an option. Yes I completely agree going private is expensive but to be honest I think I’d be in a far worse position now if I hadn’t. The consultant is really lovely easy to talk to very supportive and of course incredibly knowledgeable.
When I do get on an even keel again I will revert to the NHS. I’m so glad to hear you’re feeling a bit better today fingers tightly crossed that continues. The cut down in the amount of oestrogen I’m on certainly hit me last night which I expected to happen at some point so awoke to a fast heartbeat and feel a bit woozy this morning but still better than I was on the patches. I fully expect it to take quite a while to level up because I’ve had to change treatments  three times in the last three months. She explained that the oestrogen receptors in our body take a while to calm down and level out it’s not an instant fix overnight which I know we all knew but it was just reassuring to hear her say it again. Here’s hoping you have a much better day with your slight reduction in dose it’s amazing how little reduction can make such a difference xxxx

[lillith112]

Lililith yes I am seeing a meno consultant …. Completely agree it is expensive but I got to the end of my tether getting nowhere last year. I am not sure where you live …  it’s a telephone consultation I have but it’s very thorough and she sends me to a clinic to have the blood tests done.  Hand on heart it’s the best thing I’ve ever done going to her because I was just completely lost as to what to do before.  That is good to know that Dr Newson‘s clinic isn’t too far from you at least it does give you an option. Yes I completely agree going private is expensive but to be honest I think I’d be in a far worse position now if I hadn’t. The consultant is really lovely easy to talk to very supportive and of course incredibly knowledgeable.
When I do get on an even keel again I will revert to the NHS. I’m so glad to hear you’re feeling a bit better today fingers tightly crossed that continues. The cut down in the amount of oestrogen I’m on certainly hit me last night which I expected to happen at some point so awoke to a fast heartbeat and feel a bit woozy this morning but still better than I was on the patches. I fully expect it to take quite a while to level up because I’ve had to change treatments  three times in the last three months. She explained that the oestrogen receptors in our body take a while to calm down and level out it’s not an instant fix overnight which I know we all knew but it was just reassuring to hear her say it again. Here’s hoping you have a much better day with your slight reduction in dose it’s amazing how little reduction can make such a difference xxxx

Pippa52 I'm definitely not feeling better with patch reduction, just had to take pain killers. You must have missed my earlier post. I'm back to migraine again last night and today 😭

[Pippa52]

Lilith….. oh noooo I’m so sorry you are still feeling rotten. It just seems never ending at the moment doesn’t it and I don’t think this heat is helping either

[lillith112]

Lilith….. oh noooo I’m so sorry you are still feeling rotten. It just seems never ending at the moment doesn’t it and I don’t think this heat is helping either

Pippa52, the heat definitely isn't helping, I ripped the patch off earlier. I rang my chemist and they have 2 boxes of my patches, so been on phone to Dr, they're sending the prescription over. I'm in bed now with pounding migraine 😭

[Pippa52]

Lilith … Poor you re the migraine they are truly grotty. I am so so pleased for you that they have some of your patches in stock (estraderm?) what a huge relief for you. Think you did absolutely the right thing ripping off the patch you had on. I’m really relieved to be off Estradot too. They suit loads of people I know which is great but sadly both Evorel and Estradot made me really unwell.  So so happy for you that you can go back on your original patches. Hope so much your migraine starts to go very soon xxx

[lillith112]

Lilith … Poor you re the migraine they are truly grotty. I am so so pleased for you that they have some of your patches in stock (estraderm?) what a huge relief for you. Think you did absolutely the right thing ripping off the patch you had on. I’m really relieved to be off Estradot too. They suit loads of people I know which is great but sadly both Evorel and Estradot made me really unwell.  So so happy for you that you can go back on your original patches. Hope so much your migraine starts to go very soon xxx

Thankyou Pippa52 for your kind words, my migraine has nearly completely eased, just shows it was the Estradot causing it. Such a shame as so many people rave about them, I had such high hopes !

I guess if my Estraderm ever stop working I have the option of trying the Lenzetto spray like you are on ☺️

I think I might have a few days break from the patches for now, I feel reluctant to even put mine on after more than 2 weeks of bad heads 😭

How are you feeling today Pippa back on your Lenzetto spray ?

[joziel]

We are all having a crap time of it at the moment   

Lillith, I'm glad the migraine is easing. Do you think it could be the soy or whatever the patch is made from or the adhesive or whatever, which caused the migraine? Logic suggests it must be some extra ingredient thing if it's not estrogen itself...?