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[joziel]

I'm going to start a thread here to run whilst I do this 2 week low histamine diet trial, to keep me accountable.    This is going to involve giving up a lot of foods I really enjoy, like dark chocolate, coffee, tea, mature cheese..... But I believe I can do it for 2 weeks!! (And if I start to feel better, that will be extra encouraging.)

If anyone wants to join me, feel free to chip in with your experiences too - things are always easier together! 

I will be doing it really pretty strictly so I can get a reliable diagnosis and only eating foods which rate 0/green on this list, which is the most commonly accepted list: https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf   (PS there is also an app you can download from the App Store called Histamine Info which lists the foods in an easy portable way.)

I will be checking all additives to foods (ie guar gum is a 'no' and it is added to many coconut milks and creams) and all additives to any supplements I take. I will not be eating leftovers from the fridge, since as food ages, histamine builds up. (I will freeze leftovers, that is okay.)

I will be adding in vitamin C 3x daily; quercetin (when it arrives in the post); and zinc. I'm not going to take the type 1 and type 2 anti-histamines twice daily because these have potential side effects and I'm trying to avoid 'drugs' and stick to natural supplements. I'm also not going to take the DAO yet, since it is very expensive - but it will be useful I guess if I discover this is the cause of my current struggles.

I am just waiting for some food I ordered to arrive in a few days - and trying to use up some food I won't be able to eat and don't want to throw out, but I am hoping to start towards the end of this week (8th/9th July).

My current symptoms I think might be related to histamine issues have mostly started since I began HRT. This makes sense, since our mast cells have estrogen receptors all over them. When we take extra estrogen or if we are teetering on the edge of histamine intolerance anyway and take some estrogen, the estrogen binds to the receptors on the mast cells and the mast cells produce a lot of histamine - leading to our bodies not being able to process and get rid of it fast enough and too much histamine.

My symptoms are: Episodes of pulsing/throbbing associated with high blood pressure. Heart beating heavily. Palpitations (of a light fluttering kind, not a skipped beat). Feeling jittery and hyper, over-caffeinated. Essentially, physiological symptoms of anxiety - although I don't have anxious thoughts and it doesn't start with worrying. These episodes are much worse at night and can wake me from sleep. I am also waking early in the mornings. (Originally at 4.30am, but I now seem to have reached 6am  Today I got to 6.45am, which was a new record  - although I am now very throbby.). I also have an over-production of mucous after eating and a drippy nose and watery right eye. These eye/nose/mucous issues have gone on for years. And I have some joint pain which has improved a bit but not resolved on HRT. All these things can be symptoms of histamine intolerance. So my theory is that I might have been on the edge of this mildly pretty much all my life, but adding estrogen has just tipped me over the edge...

For more info on histamine intolerance, I've found these links useful:

https://balance-menopause.com/uploads/2021/09/Histamine-Intolerance-1.pdf

https://lizearlewellbeing.com/podcasts-videos/histamine-intolerance-with-dr-tina-peers/ (Tina Peers is one of the experts on histamine intolerance.)

Let's see what comes of my experiment - of course it might do nothing at all. If that happens, I'll be able to eat everything again so I won't be TOO upset....

[Marchlove]

Well done joziel, I’ll be interested to see how you get on.

Just remind us all, are you peri or post and what hrt/thyroid are you on? This will be useful for others if they are on the same regime and have similar symptoms. I think I recall you also said you had low ferritin?

Good luck! X

[joziel]

My ferritin is 44, which isn't officially classed as low - but is on the low side. I've just started supplementing with some gentle iron. But my ferritin has been low for years like this and I haven't had these symptoms before (the cardiovascular ones I mean).

I am 44yo and peri, but I am on continuous HRT due to a history of mild endo. I'm currently on 100mg utrogestan, Estradot 62.5mcg, testosterone and desogestrel POP (to keep endo suppressed).

I have previously tried stopping the testosterone for 10 days but that made no difference. Symptoms get worse if/when I increase estrogen.

I have no thyroid issues that I know of and test normally for thyroid.

[joziel]

Here is a super article I just found explaining the connection between estrogen and histamine: https://www.larabriden.com/the-curious-link-between-estrogen-and-histamine-intolerance/

"The connection between mast cells, histamine, and hormones is that:

Estrogen stimulates mast cells to release histamine and down-regulates the DAO enzyme that clears histamine. At the same time, histamine stimulates the ovaries to make more estrogen. The net result can be a vicious cycle of estrogen → histamine → estrogen → histamine.
Progesterone stabilises mast cells, up-regulates DAO, and can therefore reduce histamine.
Many of the symptoms attributed to so-called “estrogen dominance” (a term I do not use) are actually symptoms of histamine or mast cell activation. For example, mast cells and histamine play a role in both endometriosis and premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD)."

As I also have mild endometriosis, all this is getting very interesting...

[kittywells]

Wow - watching this with interest, and really appreciate you sharing this experience for everyone's benefit. I went on a low histamine diet about 3 months ago for a couple of weeks almost immediately after contracting covid. I suspected I had mast cell issues because it seemed that the virus had brought back a lot of the symptoms I associated with hormones being out of whack when my perimenopause started. The diet really helped me a lot, or at least the hot flushes and itchy skin went almost right away once I started it.

I have kept up some of the restrictions (still no sugar and high-sugar foods barring the occasional teaspoon of coconut palm sugar, no avocado/spinach/tomatoes etc, no alchohol, and have cut way way down on caffiene) and I think they have helped me feel better and reduce some of my inflammation. But as a single mother with long covid I don't have the resources to maintain the more restrictive form of the eating regime! It required a lot of effort, shopping and thinking about meal prep that I'm not able to do now. And a lot of the foods that are good for gut health/microbiome are no-nos on it. I've reintroduced stuff like yoghurt and kefir as well as some cheeses and dark chocolate but the symptoms haven't come back.

The information about the link between estrogen and progesterone and histamine is fascinating and so useful for me. I've had to switch from sequential to continuous HRT over the last month because I noticed I was having a terrible time during the estrogen-only weeks - awful insomnia, racing heart, physiological symptoms of anxiety despite not feeling anxious just exactly as you describe. My body clearly needs the progesterone to deal with the histamine. So glad I listened to my body and talked my GP round. She was wary about me going on conti (i'm almost 49 but went on FemSeven Sequi at 43 due to awful peri) but it's going great so far. And most importantly my sleep is better which is so crucial for my overall recovery. When my hormones are more balanced and my overall condition is better I'm going to try antihistamines too.

[joziel]

That sounds great kittywells. I am supposed to be trying to stop my desogestrel and instead take 200mg of utrogestan continuously - to see if that will also suppress my endo. If/when I get around to trying that, it will be interesting to see if doubling the body identical progesterone helps these histamine-y symptoms I have too. (The desogestrel is progesterone too of course, but not body identical - so I don't know if it would be doing the same thing? The article only talks about body identical progesterone - not sure if synthetic works as well for this.)

There are some great low histamine cookbooks you can get on Amazon. Just looking at the list of things you can eat by itself is a bit overwhelming and restrictive, so I've found it useful to look at recipes to get ideas and perhaps adjust a bit. I've found a couple of granola recipes which sound like they will provide me with snacks, along with some raisins. Since I can't have chocolate or eat spoonfuls of leftovers or cut myself pieces of cheese anymore 

[Tora]

Have you got a blender/smoothie maker Joziel? I skim read the food list and spotted an ice cream recipe

[joziel]

I do, but I don't use it because smoothies break down fibre and result in high blood sugar levels as a result. So I eat whole fruit. I do love a smoothie though.

[joziel]

Okay, I have my low histamine foods stocked up now. I am about to make a couple of low histamine granola recipes today...

And then I am starting tomorrow.

[Pippa52]

Will definitely read your info on histamine diet.  Thanks so much for posting.  xx

[Vicky81]

I'm going to go ahead and take the histamine blood test with medichecks just to rule it out ...

[joziel]

I don't think there is a reliable blood test, Vicky. And if there is, it won't be measuring histamine directly like that.

There are some complicated blood tests you can do, which GPs don't offer, that can *suggest* histamine intolerance - but nothing which can officially diagnose it. Which is why the 2 week diet trial is what is needed, for diagnosis.

[sheila99]

Good luck, I hope your will power remains strong. I'll be with you in spirit only whilst munching away on chocolate and coffee.

[joziel]

 

[Scampidoodle]

This is all very interesting! My histamine/mast cell symptoms started or at least ramped up upon starting hrt a few years back. I was feeling what I though was perimenopause and was prescribed 3 pumps oestrogel, but symptoms got worse culminating in jittery anxiety, hot flushes, depression, sensitive flushy cheeks, irritable bladder. I came off all the oestrogen and started seeing Dr Tina Peers who you mention in one of your links. I did low histamine diet, antihistamines, mast cell stabiliser and various supplements for 6 months. The thing that really helped me was having my Mirena coil replaced! I’d had one for 3.5 years and had it replaced and I immediately felt relief from a lot of symptoms and then it took about 1/2 months for the rest to ebb away. I began to get my energy back, eat and drink normally and went back to work! I suspect I’ve always had a kind of oestrogen dominance (genetic tests show I don’t detoxify oestrogen well so it builds up) but I had no idea.

I’ve had another flare up after a year due to eating badly and a nasty virus (viruses raise your histamine levels) so I’m getting some symptoms again just not to the same extent. So I’ve just had coil replaced again! After only a year. So I’ll see if the boost settles things again. So progesterone does help. It balances the high E and also settles mast cells, whereas oestrogen destabilises mast cells. For me, going on hrt was a bad decision!!

Hope some of that helps someone anyway and good luck xxx