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[CrispyChick]

UPDATE

So that's me competed 21 days on the 50mg cream.

Stopped DHEA and test - no conclusion on that yet.

Stopped DIM and Calcium d glucarate - conclude DIM was responsible for making me weepy and low, as that shifted quickly. CDG seemed to start a bit of discomfort down below ... That stopped when I stopped it. So those two big gun hormone shifters are out. Bye bye £45 

I'm day 3 of no prog and have the most horrific pmt ever. I would say however, this is how I felt for a good 10 days a month on the mini pill. So defo low progesterone. In this instance, it shows I've been absorbing progesterone cream as I'm clearly withdrawing. I didn't experience this on the 25mg dose.

So... All things point to needing a higher dose of prog and continuous dose. I'm nervous as I got intense head pressure when I tried 2 days of 100mg last month 😬.

Hopefully I can get on it and do day 21 bloods in 3 weeks then see where I'm at. 

How's everyone else? Matchlove, why are you upping your progesterone???

[Blue Kingfisher]

Hi all,

I’ve been lurking in the background but just to say, I’ve tried taking my lozenge more continuously which made me feel initially better but now I’m feeling no better at all. I’m only on a 10mg lozenge and wonder if my symptoms are also due to too low progesterone. I couldn’t tolerate progesterone cream at all, unless I wanted to be in bed all day and not be able to work. As it is, I work but I feel very unwell……at least I can just about make it through the day but sometimes it’s very hard going (working from home has been my saviour here as think I’d be sent home if people could see how bad I look).

Anyway, seeing other ladies on this thread are on 25mg when I’m on 10mg makes me think I’ll try increasing the progesterone to 20mg & see if I initially feel better or worse. It might be a need to titrate the dose up.

All this time I’ve been assuming I’m intolerant to progesterone but it could be the dose is too low listening to what others are saying.

So I will also try upping my pg dose Crispy & let you know how I get on.

[Marchlove]

I don’t really know CrispyChick! I haven’t upped them yet.
Only going by what my specialist said which was that we will increase it soon.
She is quite adamant though about taking it at night, so I’ve stuck with that. x

[Mary G]

I'm due for my new prescription soon so I thought I would ring the pharmacist to get some more technical info on the progesterone drops.

I am always open to the idea of trying new products as they become available and hormone stability is essential for me because of my silent migraines so I wanted to check out my options.   They now have both progesterone cream and progesterone gel available which sounds interesting.   I have decided to stick with the drops for now but I thought some of you might want to consider the transdermal option if you are having disappointing results with the lozenges - they can cause mouth irritation as we know.

The person I spoke to was brilliant and we talked at length about the importance of balancing oestrogen with progesterone, not just for migraine sufferers like myself but also for those who are trying to lessen the effects of oestrogen dominance/spikes.   She suggested splitting the progesterone dose by 12 hours to get a better balance.

We then discussed testosterone and she confirmed that branded testosterone (which is for men) is strong and if you are low in oestrogen, testosterone will convert to oestrogen and cause spikes.

We also talked about my problem of loose bowels and migraines if I use a higher dose of oestrogen.   Her suggestion was to increase the progesterone dose which makes sense.

It was a very useful discussion.

[Marchlove]

That’s very interesting MaryG, thank you for the information from the pharmacist.
I was interested in what she said about the Testosterone. It’s something I always feels happens. I think the irritability one can experience from testosterone is actually due to its conversion to oestrogen. Just my theory though!!
I’ve considered whether it might in fact be a good idea to take an aromatase inhibitor, which would block this conversation. I believe progesterone might be a very weak inhibitor and I think zinc is, but also other things I’ve read about like Resveratrol.
So much to figure out as you would have to prevent too much converting to DHT as well!!
So, for now I’m just going to stick with the low dose E and P. Not perfect but better than with high doses. Just to remind you all that I’m 10+ years post menopause so my low doses would not necessarily work for others.
xx

[CrispyChick]

Thanks Mary

That is very interesting. I had good advice from the pharmacist there too.

I wonder where you apply the gel?! I wonder if it's similar to the prog gel used by some in pregnancy - there's a post on that.

I've stopped the Testosterone and dhea. What you've said makes me think it's a daft thing to be trialling at the same time. Can't say stopping has helped, but anything that may increase my estrogen, is not for me at the moment. I do think I've lost the overall calmness since stopping them, but I can live with that.

I'm still struggling away here. I'm up to 100 mg prog cream. Still awfully woozy with motion sickness.

MG told me to come back in 3 months after bloods. Prob a bit early to do bloods this month, as its how I feel rather than blood results really. I know I'm absorbing as after a month on 50mg (feeling awful) I had the lightest, easiest period (physically) in my history! My periods have never been a problem for me, but i usually get some endo type pain. Nadda this month. So that was nice.

My only concern is, if I take continuously I'll not get a period. I'm pretty sure of that, so then the next month I won't know when day 21 is to test 

So, I'm thinking of upping before going back to MG. Don't really want to pay for bloods and consult to be told to try upping it... I'd rather give it the 2 months trying myself first.

Dangermouse - you were told to take 200mg by the London hormone clinic, is that right???

I've done a hell of a lot of research on prog creams and most advocating prog therapy for bad estrogen dominance say min 100mg (all US based).

So... Onwards and upwards... And hopefully to better times 

[CrispyChick]

Help. Any kind words of advice?

Still really struggling. So I took 100mg cream Mon and Tues (split dose) felt awful yesterday. Sicky and woozy and totally spaced out.

So last night I decided to take 125mg, which took yesterday's dose to 150mg. OMG an hour later I was totally out of it. So spaced out and ill feeling. I had extreme bloating too - which was new, but shows I'm absorbing quickly. I had to go to bed straight away. I was such a mess.

So I was scared for this morning. I'm not any worse than yesterday. Not good at all, but no worse.

Just not sure what to do??? I'm not going to split my dose today. I can't seem to function after even a small 25mg dose, so I'm thinking take all at night - I know that's against the advice of keeping stable levels.

Just so sick of all this. Now I'm not sure if the sick/woozy is my original sick/woozy or a new sick/woozy side affect. I just feel tortured. Everything makes he sick and woozy!

My stomsch is a bit off today too, so my body defo feels that high dose. I'd happily take that if I could have a clear head with no nausea!!!

I know no-one is in this position, but any thoughts greatly appreciated xxx

[Gnatty]

Hi there, I don't know how to help, but is the specialist who prescribed it able to  give you some reassurance or advice? It seems strange as I thought people went down the compounded route because side effects were supposed to be less. It doesn't seem fair at all, I am so sorry. Nausea is such a dreadful symptom to cope with. Is it definitely a physical symptom from the cream and not the stirrings of anxiety?

[HelloSam666]

I agree Gnatty, nausea is absolutely terrible and is what i was experiencing daily before using the progesterone cream. Like clockwork, it always started around midday for the rest of the day.

You know Crispy Chick, part of me thinks, it may be worth taking absolutely nothing for a day or two and see how you feel, you surely cannot feel any worse than you do. Or have you done that before?

Thinking of you, Sam

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

CrispyChick - I am so sorry that you are suffering and I completely understand your frustration.  I have not tried compounded hormones as I am still fiddling with the standard Oestrogen gel, progesterone tablet/pessary and Testosterone combo.

From reading this thread I wonder if my mood swings are due to low progesterone and or oestrogen dominance. My meno doctor has always focused on lowering progesterone and increasing oestrogen but your comments make me wonder if this is the correct strategy?

I am going to try and get an appointment with my meno doctor and if I learn anything useful I will pass it on.

Wishing you all well ladies and sending hugs.

K.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks ladies

Just seeing replies helps ladies. Thanks so much x

My clinic said at my last consult to up to 50mg per day - which I did last month, and felt dreadful, then up to 100mg this month if no better.

Everything I read online from countries where they use prog cream - says 100mg to 200mg for ED symptoms. So I thought I'd go for it  and took the 150mg yesterday. The majority last night.

Yes, defo either cream side affects, or my original synptoms (which are intense dizziness and nausea) Not anxiety. I'm so spaced out I'm not interested in anything  . Nothing is remotely bothering me. I think I'm on side affects now - they're just similar to my original symptoms - and yes gnatty, I agree.... I thought compounded would give me the answers. I know nothing is a quick fix, but I'm on month 4!!!

I don't think there's any point stopping for 2 days just now as I stopped Fri to Sun for my natural break. Suffered extreme pmt for one day then had the lightest period ever. Didnt at any point feel good, but I do think the wooziness went down a notch.

I told myself this is the last month saloon... So I guess I need to plod on this month. I'm just about to call up and order my bloods for day 21 then I'll book a consult.

Kathleen - I totally bought into the whole prog dominance thing... But now I'm not sure. If feels like the whole world are at opposite ends of the spectrum. UK is estrogen pushing, USA seems to be prog pushing. We just don't seem to have the answers yet. 

[VictoryV]

Sending hugs Crispy, there’s got to be a break through soon. X

[Mary G]

Sorry to hear that Crispy, I think you should phone the clinic and/or the pharmacy to get some advice.

For 'oestrogen dominance' read 'oestrogen spikes'.   This is a huge problem for a lot of women in peri menopause and I now know 100% that it was the cause of my silent migraines and I wish I had known this in 2004 when they started.  Back then and until a few years ago, I needed high doses of oestrogen to keep the sweats away but I can no longer tolerate that level because my body has changed - the menopause evolves.

In order to get rid of oestrogen spikes in the early stages of the menopause, you either need to go very high with oestrogen (overriding the cycle) or very high with progesterone.

I use compounded progesterone because (in my case) it does not have the horrendous side effects of Utrogestan and because I like the flexible dosage.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks Mary.

So you think really high on prog is what I'm trying for??? It's certainly been my thinking, but the level of spacey wooziness I got last night from 125mg cream was off the scale. Probably comparable to what folks get with utro I guess. I'm just left wondering why the cream is affecting me in this way 🤷‍♀️

I've certainly no desire to go high on estrogen.

I just seem to get the wooziness, dizziness and nausea on whatever hormone I touch. It was the main problem, in various formats, on my pill trials. Yet used to take the pill no problem.

It's mid afternoon and, having had no cream this am, things have calmed. I'm extremely flat and disinterested in my mood today - but ill take that. If I could just get rid of the wooziness, it would be a start!

I have logged a query with the clinic for my doctor. I've considered calling the pharmacy, may do so in a few days once I've tried the high dose (150mg) for a few more nights. Night time only. See what transpires. Maybe there are alternatives to the cream that will suit me better.

I just got an almighty shock last night with my reaction to the higher dose of cream. I'm scared for tonight.

Your thoughts are helpful though - make me realise it is still possibly what I need... I'm just not settled yet. X

[Marchlove]

I think the Progesterone is the way to go for you CrispyChick, but you have taken a big leap upward and I expect your body is thinking what’s all this!
I really think you should only take it at night and stay at 100mg and see if it settles.
It seems like mood wise the higher doses will work for you but if you’re feeling low and flat, that’s showing that you’ve over stepped the mark.
x