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[Sammiejane]

hi ladies

need some advice

as u know i wanted to try combined regime to see how it helped others mood swings aniexty bloating etc

well not much luck it may be my imagination but it feels as though my pelvic floor is weaker since using utrogestan x mood is better and hair feels thicker

do i need to increase my gel from 2 to 3 pumps flushes have gone x or do i need testosterone although i think my estrogen will still be to low
i feel like i need to pee to all the time just bladder irritation .

if my testosterone level is low which it is will the progesterone covert to this with it being a precursor??

i don't know whether to stop it increase gel or what x

your advice ladies is needed x

thank u

[Mary G]

Sammiejane, I think that 100mg Utrogestan is far too heavy duty for your purposes and in your situation ie having had a hysterectomy, I wouldn't touch Utrogestan with a barge pole.   

You don't need progesterone for womb protection, you need it to balance your hormones and (I assume) to avoid oestrogen spikes so you need to consider a transdermal progesterone cream and at a much lower dose than 100mg.

Have you considered switching to a different hormone specialist? 

[Sammiejane]

hi mary g

unfortunately there is only one where i live in oxford x

i had thought about trying every other day instead again but worried the stopping and starting will trigger hair shedding again which at the moment is not happening although only been 3 weeks. x
i?m also getting bloating in tummy upset tummy bladder irritation especially when it's ovestin cream night and pelvic floor feels weaker but has improved my sleep my aniexty and my mood i can't win  x

[Alicess]

Hi Sammiejane, progesterone isn't a precursor for testosterone nor will it convert to testosterone.  Most progestins ( synthetic progesterone ) do have some androgenic properties.

Alicess x

[Sammiejane]

hi alicess
so if i?m low on testosterone and taking progesterone this won't then convert to tesosterone x

thank u

[Hurdity]

NO!

[bear]

Hi girls,

Actually progesterone can be converted to testosterone depending on the presence of specific enzymes in specific tissues. Testosterone is synthesized by two pathways: through progesterone metabolism to androstenedione or through conversion of 17α-hydroxypregnanolone to dihydroepiandrosterone (DHEA-S).



By David Richfield (User:Slashme) and Mikael H?ggstr?m. Derived from previous version by Hoffmeier and Settersr.In external use, this diagram may be cited as:(2014). "Diagram of the pathways of human steroidogenesis". WikiJournal of Medicine 1 (1). DOI:10.15347/wjm/2014.005. ISSN 20018762. - H?ggstr?m M, Richfield D (2014). "Diagram of the pathways of human steroidogenesis". WikiJournal of Medicine 1 (1). DOI:10.15347/wjm/2014.005. ISSN 20024436., CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=4494399

BeaR.

[Hurdity]

Yes bear progesterone is linked indirectly to testosterone on the steroidogenesis pathway you posted - this is well known. It's all interconnected, but sammiejane was asking if exogenous progesterone would convert to testosterone and as far as we know - not. I presume there will have been some research done on this? Like you say it all depends on enzymes in specific tissues. If it did universally then no-one would need to take T if they were deficient would they? Also and I've argued this before - all we would ever need to take is cholesterol and we would have all the hormones but it doesn't work like this.

Hurdity x

[bear]

Hi there,

Alternative or backdoor androgen production has recently been described in human fetus and indicate that placental progesterone acts as substrate for synthesis of backdoor androgens (androsterone), which occurs across several non-gonadal tissues, ie, the testis is not the site of production, meaning that it's possible for both males and females to convert progesterone to androgens, the levels of androsterone and testosterone were lower in female fetuses, although there was some overlap between sexes.

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000002

BeaR.

[Treehouse1]

I have no idea what any of you have just said...but boy, i could do with all this smartness to help me!😀

[bear]

Hi Treehouse1,

 

It's complex yes, for everyone! The question is: can progesterone be converted to testosterone? It can and it is, mainly in the testis, but of course Sammiejane wants to know if her daily caspsule of Utrogestan can be converted to testosterone by her surgical menopausal body...

IMHO, yes it can. It's not exact science, though. It depends on the presence of specific enzymes in specific tissues that contain specific co-factors that will influence the production of these enzymes, all of them subjected to genetic variability.

This has already been studied and documented on lab animals, but human studies are scarce, particularly when the subject is testosterone in females, despite the fact that women have higher levels of testosterone than oestrogen, but they're almost an object of ridicule if compared to levels in men, so the 'male hormone' is basically studied in male subjects. Male power is still a sad reality in science, but this is changing, thank goodness.

BeaR.

[Treehouse1]

Ok, thanks for the explanation. You know that saying ?what do rockets scientists say when something is not difficult?...well i think they must say ?its not hrt!? 😀

Anyhow, cheeky hijack of thread...progesterone gel? ....did i read right? As a progesterone ?hater? could i have this as part of continuing hrt with an estradot patch? Am hoping if i just had a bit, rubbed in every day rather than ingested, it may have less severe side effects than systemic?

[Alicess]

It 's a big IF.  Same with pregnenolone and DHEA,; in theory also the possibilty of conversion to oestrogen, testosterone ( or progesterone) but in most people DHEA converts to DHT and  pregnenolone to progesterone.As pregnenolone is the precursor to other steriod hormones like progesterone ....according to this study:

Treatment with pregnenolone resulted in fourfold elevations in serum levels of pregnenolone (paired t-test p=0.017, t=3.11, df=7), tripled serum pregnenolone sulfate levels (paired t-test p<0.0001, t=10.44, df=8), and increased the GABAergic neurosteroid allopregnanolone fivefold (paired t-test p=0.009, t=3.59, df=7) (Table 6). Pregnenolone administration also increased serum progesterone over fourfold and DHEAS levels by approximately 16% (Table 6). Treatment with pregnenolone did not increase serum testosterone, free testosterone, cortisol, DHEA, estradiol, or androstenedione levels (Table 6)."
https://www.nature.com/articles/npp200926
NB: High doses (500mg/day for last 4 weeks of trial)

Sammiejane, sorry for all the confusion but in my honest opinion I personally would not count on the very small possibilty that progesterone will convert to testosterone.

Alicess.

[Sammiejane]

hi ladies

this has confused my poor little brain but i did watch a utube video from a famous doctor in us who states that progesterone is like the comelian hormone whereby it is a precursor for both estrogen and tesosterone and if i am deficient in tesosterone but have enough estrogen then this could convert to testosterone what she also said to was progesterone briefly awakens estrogen receptor intill the body recognizes it's not estrogen hence the sore boobs increase flushes , and i also wonder if then this is why hysterectomy women are only normally given estrogen and tesosterone yes i know because they don't have a womb so know need to protect that but if it's a precursor of both E and T then if it does convert to these then it's not needed but then in the same breath i also thought progesterone inhibits 5A reductase which converts tesosterone into DHT .

i don't understand it all but i still don't know whether to increase estrogen or reduce /stop progesterone but i can't take gel on its own for how it made me feel i was crazy on it so would need to consider patch which i do have everol in the cuboard but not sure i can just change over to patch from gel x

i?m at GP tomorrow but just thought i'd gather advice before hand x

thank you ladies

[Sammiejane]

hi sorry also forgot to add that as it's only been 4 weeks this may be to early and i also was wondering that maybe i need tesosterone added in but i hopefully will have my levels tested. x