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[Penelope]

That's good news that the doc is taking you seriously and at least ordering blood tests and investigating.

And it's also great that your Anxiety has left you.Its an odd feeling when it does that.Its like you hate it but when it disappears is like well where are you.🌹

[Wrensong]

Hi Baby, glad to hear your GP is being thorough with the bloods.  That he's seen fit to ask another GP to give an opinion also seems caring.  Please let us know how you get on on Friday & with the blood results if you feel like posting.  Hope the antibiotics help you feel better.
Wx

[Baby]

Been to docs.all bloods ok. She has given me oestogel and the utrogestan tablets. She is gonna ring me in a week to see how I am.if no improvement she says she will refer me to Birmingham. Didn't sleep last night so feel even worse. And for twenty years I have had low blood pressure, now I have high.

[Hezzalady67!]

Thanks for this thread. I had been feeling below par and blood test showed signs of subclinical hypothyroid i.e. my pituitary is producing slightly above average levels of TSH but my thyroid hormone reading is still normal.

I have been told it just needs monitoring annually, in case it gets worse. The problem being, I do feel mostly knackered despite healthy eating, losing some weight etc......I manage working full time but I can't manage ANYTHING else most of the time which is frustrating...and my hair is now getting visibly thin on the crown and at the front.

Not due for the annual test for a few more months, but wondering if I should go back and make a fuss.

[Penelope]

Hezzalady67

Hello so glad you had the tests done.
First up I would like to say that by the time this has shown up it has been happening for along time and I feel so sorry for you you have been a very unwell women for along time.
I to had the feeling that I was dragging myself around and the hair problem the same plug full and hairbrushes full also.
You need to research as much as you can because you may have many other symptoms you are not aware of that are directly related to thyroid and we put them down to other things.
Research will then give you power and understanding of what you want when visiting your doc.
Because you are not well you do need to push for yourself because no one else will.
You owe it to yourself to feel well.
Keep always in your mind that we can have horrendous thyroid symptoms and have normal blood tests
It's all about how you feel and how much worse you may be going to feel.
I would be asking the doctor to do a thyroid antibodies test.
when you have thyroid disease and enter into menopause it is very common for it to turn into Hashimoto's or graves disease this will show up in this test.And is something he should have done.
Some doctors wait and watch but those patients have no symptoms.
You are symptomatic!
Hope this helps🌹

[Hezzalady67!]

Thanks, yes I wonder how much other stuff relates to this. I asked them to look into Cushings disease, had so many symptoms I could relate to. Had a blood cortisol test but it came back normal.

But early meno, meno symptoms, sleeping badly, waking with a very puffy face, difficulty keeping weight down, fatigue, sensitive to lots of things...etc...etc...and now the hair loss...yes, I will go back and ask for the thyroid antibody test you suggest.

Much appreciate your advice.

[Penelope]

You are very welcome Hezzalady67

I am just so pleased you are onto it,There are just to many ladies on here that I feel have thyroid problems and they always say my bloods are normal!
It's how we feel it's our symptoms.Good luck and please add to the thread the more you find out.
Now rest in the knowledge that you are going to sort this.🌹

[Hurdity]

Hi everyone - this has been mentioned recently on this thread by Kathleen and others, and I can't remember if I've posted this study on this thread already so if so apologies - it is a study looking at the link between thyroid replacement and oestrogen replacement in post-menopausal women:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15142374

Interaction of estrogen therapy and thyroid hormone replacement in postmenopausal women.

"Based on the use of estrogen therapy/hormone therapy (ET/HT) in postmenopausal women and the prevalence of hypothyroidism in this population, it is estimated that approximately 5% of all postmenopausal women receive treatment with both ET/HT and thyroid hormone replacement. Hormone therapy generally refers to the combined use of estrogens and progestins, the latter administered on a continuous or intermittent basis. HT is indicated for the treatment of postmenopausal women with intact uteri, whereas ET is used in women who have had hysterectomies. Because of its hepatic first-pass effect, oral estrogen therapy, the most commonly used modality of ET/HT, raises the circulating levels of thyroxine-binding globulin (TBG), thereby increasing the bound fraction and decreasing the free (bioactive) fraction of circulating thyroxine (T(4)). As a consequence, oral ET/HT may increase the T(4) dosage requirements of women being treated for primary hypothyroidism as well as alter the pituitary-thyroid axis in euthyroid women. This paper reviews the potential interaction between ET/HT and thyroid hormone replacement based on the prevalence of their concomitant use, mechanistic aspects of the interaction, and recent clinical studies of the effects of oral ET in euthyroid and hypothyroid women. Other agents known to interact with thyroid hormone replacement, including soy supplements, are also reviewed. Because transdermal ET does not affect TBG levels and would not be expected to alter thyroid function, it may be a preferable modality for postmenopausal women who require concomitant treatment with ET/HT and T(4)."

I have highlighted in bold the bit that always sticks in my mind when this is discussed - ie that there are potential differences between use of oral oestrogens (tablet HRT) and transdermal oestrogens  (patch or gel HRT) when taking thyroid meds (or possibly even if not).

I think this means that symptoms of underactive thyroid could become more apparent if using oral HRT (ie oestrogen based)?

Others will be able to provide a more detailed explanation and view as I kknow very little about this area...

Hurdity x

[Wrensong]

Thank you for posting this info on interaction between thyroid & HRT Hurdity.

I think this means that symptoms of underactive thyroid could become more apparent if using oral HRT (ie oestrogen based)?

You are correct that the reduction in active thyroid hormone caused by the rise in thyroid binding globulin (TBG) as a result of taking oestrogen can cause a thyroid condition formerly well controlled on thyroid replacement to become symptomatic again.  In those people with borderline hypothyroidism untreated by replacement thyroid medication, it seems possible that by the same mechanism, exogenous oestrogen could worsen any thyroid symptoms they may already have.

I would just repeat something I've posted often elsewhere (sorry everyone!) that although it's widely documented that only oral oestrogen increases TBG, I have had to make several minor adjustments to my thyroid medication dose throughout my time on transdermal HRT.  Whilst trying to find my best fit, bloods have repeatedly demonstrated what my body was telling me - that changes in the various transdermal HRT regimens I've tried have had an effect on my thyroid hormone blood levels.  Some thyroid patients are more sensitive to variations in active thyroid hormone levels than others & seems I'm one of them!

Women on thyroid replacement can also be more sensitive to the effects of progesterone.  In my case I cannot tolerate Utrogestan as it seems to rev my thyroid dangerously (producing symptoms of overtreatment) & indeed I've read that progesterone can effectively potentiate thyroid hormone.  I suspect this may be less of a problem for those hypothyroid women who only need replacement Thyroxine & not the very powerful hormone known as T3 (Liothyronine) which I also need to take daily.

So my advice to any hypothyroid woman new to or changing HRT regimens is to be vigilant & ask for thyroid levels to be tested if thyroid symptoms begin to change for the worse either way, i.e. a suspicion that your thyroid hormone dose may now be either too little or too much.
Wx

[Wrensong]

Couldn't find the link I had in mind to illustrate what I said above about progesterone seemingly increasing thyroid hormone activity, but this link containing the following findings will do:-

"At 12 weeks on progesterone, TSH levels tended to be lower (1.7 mU) than on placebo (2.2), P = 0.06; FreeT4 levels were higher (16.4 pmol/l) than on placebo (15.3), P = 0.02. . . .

CONCLUSIONS:
Progesterone caused a significant FreeT4 increase that was discovered during this randomized controlled VMS trial."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23252963

The effect seems modest here, though was described as significant & is certainly interesting.

[shoppingqueen]

Hello
I'm wondering if anyone newly on Levo found that suddenly their HRT stopped working?
I can't decipher what are hypo symptoms or meno. Meno symptoms have been well controlled previously then very ill/ symptomatic with hypothyroidism and diagnosed with Hashimotos.
I started taking HRT at night to have a long time from Levo dose am. But it seems to have thrown me. Don't know whether to just stop the HRT??
Any thoughts would be welcome xx

[Wrensong]

Hi Shoppingqueen, I take it you are on oral HRT, or is it gel you're applying at night?  Transdermal methods (patches/gel) are less likely to interact with your thyroid replacement & I would recommend patches as gel can possibly give rise to greater peaks & troughs in levels. 

I think it's also possible that your new thyroid medication in speeding up your metabolism from its formerly underactive state, is helping your body clear your HRT more efficiently, so effectively lowering the levels of sex hormones in your body.  That might account for the feeling your HRT is no longer working?

We hypothyroid ladies can sometimes have a hard time balancing the two forms of replacement but it should be doable, so please don't lose hope of feeling properly better.
Wx

[shoppingqueen]

Hello to you both
Thank you 🙏
Birdy, I'm on oral HRT and I really struggled with patches when I had these- sensitive skin/ psoriasis etc I just couldn't manage them and I've not tried gel. I'm realising that this maybe something I need to consider- I have joined thyroid U.K. so will have a look in there, too. Thank you I am learning too early days 
Wrensong
Thank you- of course this makes perfect sense! I never thought of that! My constipation is easing (at least one symptom showing some improvement) so the Levo must be being processed and it makes absolute sense re metabolising the HRT.
I'm loathed to switch delivery method at the moment as I've had such success with the Femoston 2/10. And boy, did I have a horrendous time trying to find something that worked.
It does now make me wonder if my severe meno symptoms 3-4 years ago were also due to a Hashi flair and messed with the axis they Hurdity refers to.
Hope you are both feeling better or in a good day xx

[shoppingqueen]

Ps apologies for the question mark apostrophes don't know 'what's happening 🤣 and for answering questions out of order... x

[shoppingqueen]

Thanks  Birdy- you give me hope! X