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[KiltedCupid]

vintagefriend - you may well need 4 pumps a day. You could try 2 am and 2 pm. Some ladies need an 8 hour gap, others a 12 hour gap. As ever with hrt, you just need to find your sweet spot.

We're all searching for the gloriously normal!

[vintagefiend]

Hi Kilted- and apologies just realised that you responded!
well, i'm slowly feeling better on 3 though still quite low at times- i strongly suspect i'll need to up it to 4 but i'll plod on for a bit longer on 3. once i'm stable in terms of oestrogen i'll def look into testoterone.
thank you!

[KiltedCupid]

No problem vintagefriend, I'd forgotten too! Hope the gel continues to ease the symptoms. Low mood is tricky. I think testosterone defo helps with that.

[MIS71MUM]

Hi VintageFiend

I know we spoken before on here, I'm 48 too.  I had hysterectomy, kept ovaries, for different reason but same outcome. It really helped me realise that I couldn't tolerate progesterone and that my body was still having some form of cycle.

I now see a nhs gynaecologist- she's brilliant and I'm lucky that all my blood tests back up my symptoms. Saw her in summer and felt amazing, oestrogen levels of 1100 pmol. Saw her recently, felt weepy, even cried on way home, had applied gel 2 hours before, oestrogen levels 91 pmol. Due to high levels in summer, I'd reduced from 5 to 4, applied twice a day. Testosterone at 0.4.

Been suffering from digestion symptoms, poor sleep, flushes and hair loss. So this week I've gone back upto 5 pumps, 3 in am and 2 in Eve. Also started tostran - a tiny smear every other day.

I think some of us need high doses, been told I can go to 6 pumps if needed. I know other members have suggested patches but if there's a shortage maybe you are better staying with gel.

[vintagefiend]

Hi MIS71MUM
Yes, I remember you!
Sorry just checked this thread- thank you so much for responding.
actually that's all very helpful- particularly to know that levels can plummet like that- i'm in the year leading up to official menopause - nearly there! and imagine that my oestrogen levels are going down if they're moving at all.
for sure i'm not feeling the energy i felt in the summer.
some of us need a lot, evidently!
i'm finding it a bit tricky increasing- the immediate symptoms of more oestradiol proving a bit much so i'm increasing slowly as of today 3.5 pumps and sticking to it.
great that you no longer have the need for prog in your life!
i have an initial consultation in december re hysterectomy- so, i feel like things are moving- might even ask if they'll give me oestradiol blood test tho they'll prob tell me it's gp jurisdiction (and gp won't do it) but worth a try.
it is very reassuring, as you say, when blood tests back up symptoms!!
really hope the 5 pumps works for you.
can i ask how long you've been on the tostran?
thanks

[heavenlyblue]

I now see a nhs gynaecologist- she's brilliant and I'm lucky that all my blood tests back up my symptoms. Saw her in summer and felt amazing, oestrogen levels of 1100 pmol. Saw her recently, felt weepy, even cried on way home, had applied gel 2 hours before, oestrogen levels 91 pmol. Due to high levels in summer, I'd reduced from 5 to 4, applied twice a day. Testosterone at 0.4.

Been suffering from digestion symptoms, poor sleep, flushes and hair loss. So this week I've gone back upto 5 pumps, 3 in am and 2 in Eve. Also started tostran - a tiny smear every other day.

I think some of us need high doses, been told I can go to 6 pumps if needed. I know other members have suggested patches but if there's a shortage maybe you are better staying with gel.

Wow, I cannot even imagine how I would feel on that high a level.  I have been on 50mcg Evoril Patches past 20 months and have been feeling utterly dreadful so went to a private GP.  Found out my oestrogen levels were 44 pmol and Testosterone 0.4 nmol - it at least showed me why I was feeling so awful.  I'm now on Oestrogel and Testogel.  Have to stay on 2 pumps frustratingly, until my BP is down but at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel - power is knowledge and all that :-)

[vintagefiend]

yes, heavenly, it's pretty stratospheric, isn't it?!!!
good luck on your 2 pumps- 44pmol very low- no wonder you felt bad.
i'm interested in your testogel! I know that my T levels are 0.18 so would obvs like to get that reading up- i thought i had to wait until oestradiol better but looks like your doc happy for you to do it in tandem with oestrogel (and same for MIS71MUM by the looks of it)
I have a black market sachet of testogel - just sitting there on my dressing table- i'm v tempted!
hope it works well for you.

[heavenlyblue]

yes, heavenly, it's pretty stratospheric, isn't it?!!!
good luck on your 2 pumps- 44pmol very low- no wonder you felt bad.

i'm interested in your testogel! I know that my T levels are 0.18 so would obvs like to get that reading up- i thought i had to wait until oestradiol better but looks like your doc happy for you to do it in tandem with oestrogel (and same for MIS71MUM by the looks of it)
I have a black market sachet of testogel - just sitting there on my dressing table- i'm v tempted!
hope it works well for you.

I don't think 2 pumps is going to make much difference to me, equates to the same as the 50mcg I was on before with Evoril Conti patches, but who knows, maybe I will absorb the gel better!  As soon as my BP is normal, I will be able to up the dosage.

Re that black market Testogel...do be careful....though beards are very fashionable at the moment....

[vintagefiend]

yeah i'll prob leave off the testogel for now!!- i need to sort my oestradiol levels first.
well, i hope your BP allows you to take more oestrogel and that it suits you better than the patches- it's frustrating that we often end up going private as GPs/specialists bloody rubbish- i've thrown so much money at this!!

[MIS71MUM]

Hi VintageFiend

I've have had tostran for a while but not dare take it properly. I've only been taking it for 4 weeks.

I'm now taking 3 pumps in morning and 2 in evening. My testosterone levels have been about 0.40 so they are low whilst my oestrogen was 91 pmol. My specialist was quite happy to start the testosterone whilst my oestrogen levels were low.

I'd always hoped that I could take that much oestrogen that my cycle would be knocked out but that has never quite happened.

Good luck with your appointment in December.

[vintagefiend]

thanks MISS71
I remember taking lots of oestrogel a couple or more years ago in hopes of stopping my cycle but it just added to it and i was completely overwhelmed by oestrogen!!
now, further down the line, i havent had a period since end jan (with exception of one manufactured by utrogestan) and i presume you're in a similar situation? but you think that you might be having something of a cycle? that's interesting and i wonder if i'm experiencing similar.
great that you have such a good gynaecologist in the NHS. In my area (Leeds), the gynaes deal only with surgery/hysterectomy- they are not interested in menopause symptoms/treatment beyond that.
There is one specialist meno GP at the main hospital who is there for menopause, but this person's manner is awful and i doubt very much she'd be open to prescribing testosterone!
So, it's really good that you can give your experience with a good gynaecologist (and then I can go badger my GP!)- the pooling of info and experience on this forum is brilliant!
Good luck to you too 

[heavenlyblue]

I now see a nhs gynaecologist- she's brilliant and I'm lucky that all my blood tests back up my symptoms. Saw her in summer and felt amazing, oestrogen levels of 1100 pmol. Saw her recently, felt weepy, even cried on way home, had applied gel 2 hours before, oestrogen levels 91 pmol. Due to high levels in summer, I'd reduced from 5 to 4, applied twice a day. Testosterone at 0.4.

Been suffering from digestion symptoms, poor sleep, flushes and hair loss. So this week I've gone back upto 5 pumps, 3 in am and 2 in Eve. Also started tostran - a tiny smear every other day.

I think some of us need high doses, been told I can go to 6 pumps if needed. I know other members have suggested patches but if there's a shortage maybe you are better staying with gel.

Wow, I cannot even imagine how I would feel on that high a level.  I have been on 50mcg Evoril Patches past 20 months and have been feeling utterly dreadful so went to a private GP.  Found out my oestrogen levels were 44 pmol and Testosterone 0.4 nmol - it at least showed me why I was feeling so awful.  I'm now on Oestrogel and Testogel.  Have to stay on 2 pumps frustratingly, until my BP is down but at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel - power is knowledge and all that :-)

Good news is that my BP readings at home for the past 6 days have been very good, one more day to go then I take the readings to my NHS GP.  Then I can email my private GP and then hopefully, she will give me the go ahead to up my oestrogen dose.   Just keeping everything crossed, not sure how long an upped dose takes to feel any effect but cannot wait to start!   :-)   

[Wilks]

Hi there,
It's so tricky getting the dose right, isn't it? I'm 51 and have been using patches for about 3 and a half years but during that time I've had to increase the dose twice to manage sudden return of symptoms (presumably due to further drops in my oestradiol levels). I was using Estradot but it became unavailable where I live, so I switched to Evorel a few months ago. Supposedly an equivalent dose, but I seem to absorb the Evorel better and ended up with a lot of migraine visual auras because my oestradiol levels were much higher. Last week, my GP agreed I needed to drop to a lower dose of evorel but now that's unavailable so I'm having to switch to a gel. I imagine that will require a few more weeks faffing about with the dose!

[vintagefiend]

Heavenly Blue- great news that your BP normal! I hope that you feel the benefits of more oestrogen sharpish!!

And Hi, Wilks- good luck with the gel if that's what you end up with.

Well, it's been over a month since I started increasing my oestrogel doses- in all honesty i am a bit up and down so not sure i'm absorbing much. think i'll prob have to have another blood test.
i'm currently using 2 pumps morning and 1.5 pumps evening but am waking up depressed.
certainly no symptoms of excessive oestrogen (no boob ache!) just feel crappy.
i do wonder about testosterone- my level was last measured at 0.18 but that's the highest figure i've ever had (since having it measured over past 2 years) so i really am low on testosterone.
i don't know what to do -feeling rather despondent.

[AlphabettiSpaghetti]

I've just discovered my oestradiol level is 84, despite being on SIX PUMPS of oestrogel per day. I've been feeling rubbish.
Been on oestrogel for several years. Before that I tried elleste duet. Am now on estraderm 100. I don't seem to be absorbing these either. I've currently got three stuck to my bum (as advised by meno specialist).
I seem to just not absorb oestrogen. Ugh. So fed up of feeling like crap. I'm too young for this shit.