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[warwick01]

Morning Ladies,

I would appreciate your advice please?

Following a conversation with a medical practitioner who tells me a women age 56 should only be on a low dose patch such as Everal 25 and no higher than 50. I have been trying to move from Gel (4pumps) due to becoming sensitizes after 3 years of use.

Its my 3rd week on Everal 75 and still have some side effects such as dizziness weird head but trying to persevere. Also I find when the patch is due to be changed symptoms creep through.

Anyone else had similar issues ?

Wx 

[dazned]

Hi this meno lark is the pits isn't it !

I believe it is advisable as we get older to reduce to a low maintenance level of hrt. I'm 56next month and have started to reduce my estrogen down with a view to stopping altogether before Christmas to see what if any symptoms Iam left with . Started reducing about 7 weeks ago and as of yet not noticed much difference but early days yet 

[Dancinggirl]

Hi warwick01
I think it is far too early to judge things - 3 weeks is not long enough for your body to adjust. I get dizziness if on too high a dose of oestrogen!!!
It is sensible to be on the lowest dose of oestrogen that will keep symptoms under control, however, I believe going too low would be counter production. You have been using a very high dose of oestrogen and 75 is still quite high, so trying to reduce slowly is good.  What I do question is the theory that Oestrogel is no longer working for you??!!! I have used it for many years and still find it the best delivery for consistency - when I tried patches I felt dizzy and odd on the first day I applied it and, as you describe, it seemed to wear off toward the end before changing the patch.  We are all different though and many women seem to do really well with patches. Your current symptoms may well be just about your body adjusting and this can take some months.

Are you trying to control flushes and night sweats or are your symptoms more to do with mood and anxiety? Having posted for some time on MM and read so many threads about women struggling with anxiety and low mood, it does seem to me that HRT can only do so much in relation to the anxiety/low mood and though some women believe a high dose of oestrogen will do the trick perhaps this isn't the best way to deal with this.  If you are finding that the flushes and night sweats return then I'm sure a medium to highish dose is perhaps appropriate. I am 59 and on a low dose HRT and actually find my mood is better on a lower rather than a higher dose of oestrogen. Have you had a hyster, so just using oestrogen?
I have a colleague at work(aged 66) who was suffering badly with flushes, night sweats and awful anxiety - she tried so many options with HRT but is now doing well on a medium dose HRT with Citalopram (a SRRI) alongside - I think some women need both.  DG x

[warwick01]

Thanks for your advice Ladies.

DG - I was doing fine on the gel for 3 years. Then from October last year I started suffering acute anxiety, panic ect the gel still controlled the night sweats and flushes but I found I became more edgy, tense, agitated with accompanied dizziness. I too questioned if I was having too much gel but blood work for esrtrodol was 269 and GP thought that wasn't the case.

I take 7 day 2.5 northisterone every six weeks. I do know I feel worse if the patch falls off so I must need HRT.........

Wx

[peegeetip]

"I believe it is advisable as we get older to reduce to a low maintenance level of hrt."

There is no point in doing this if our symptoms come back.
The advise on lower doses is for "late" starters.
If using for an extended time then we need what we need to maintain symptoms and quality.

Just one question Warwick01, are you not on Conti patch yet?
Also you could start your new patch a day earlier if your feeling it "run out"

 

[warwick01]

Hi Peegeetip

The rationale in my thinking is to settle on Everal oestrogen only then move onto conti but need to adjust because still getting side effects with patch. Hope it settles sooooon. To be honest it's just the dizziness not feeling as agitated like on the gel, but still early days.

Yes may be worth trying changing patch every 3 days?

Thanks for the advice Wx

[peegeetip]

Hi Warwick

hope that helps.

In terms of the dizziness. That could be caused by lots of things, not just the HRT.

It could be fluctuations in your blood pressure.
If your BP is lowish then a small fluctuation might give you that woozy feeling.

As I've mentioned before a lot of AD's can have this affect and reduce peoples BP without them realising it.

Even a bad head cold can have an effect on our ears and balance.

If your unsure on the BP front it might be an idea getting a small home BP testing machine.
When you feel woozy, see what your BP is reading.

Also have you been tested recently for anaemia? This can also leave you feeling dizzy and often people arent breathless with it. Having anaemia can also make your heart work harder and give you a sense that its racing faster than normal.

Hope that gives a few more things to maybe consider. Glad the patches are helping though.
Let us know if the earlier change starts to help too

 

[honeybun]

Actually don't see the point in changing patches every three days. Patches are designed to give a steady dose over the amount of days that they are stuck on. You don't get more on the first day and less on the second and so on.

All you are doing is using more patches to be honest.

That's why a lot of women find patches so good. It's the steadiness of the delivery with no highs and lows. If it worked like that we ....in theory... should have to put on a new patch every day.


Honeybun
X

[Hurdity]

From what I've read it takes about 12 hours after patch application to reach the highest level and then very gradually decreases over the course of the next few days. Similarly I seem to recall it takes 12 hours for levels to reach baseline following removal of patch (from memory...) so theoretically one should not notice a difference.

However it may well be that lower levels occur with time because patches come slightly unstuck, which will exacerbate the gradual decrease that occurs with time anyway. I try to remember to change mine every 3.5 days ie Mon even and Fri morn as this ensures they are changed at approx the same stage. I do notice even with Estradot though that the edges have slightly lifted so it might be worth trying every three days if this is happening with you - or at least 3.5 as I do?

I wouldn't be tempted to move to conti myself - there is no way that I would want to take norethisterone all the time! That may herald a whole new set of problems - so I stick to a bleed - however inconvenient and undesirable that may seem at 62!

Hurdity x

[peegeetip]

Just to clarify??? We are talking 1.5 extra patches over 30 day period in time

[warwick01]

Thank you so much (as always)

I am really trying to purseaver with the patches as I believe the slower delivery is what I need. It got to the stage with Oestrogel following the application of 2 pumps at around 8:00am by 11:00am I was like a wound up coil ready to snap due to tension......... settled late afternoon.

Fingers crossed the strange head feeling will improve, I know this is a side effect of the patch.

Wx

[honeybun]

Maybe some are more sensitive to changes but I can leave a patch off for hours and see no difference at all. Or perhaps I'm not really paying enough attention because I don't tend to dwell but just try and get on with things.

However I do think that the patch delivers the most consistent dose of HRT over a given period.

I would hate to be having a bleed at 55 and as nature intended for me...,I'm not. My periods stopped at 49 so I'm mimicking what was meant to be the best way I can. The thought of bleeding into my 60s is not appealing at all.

Obviously we each have to do what we feel good with.

Oh and my GP questions me coming back early for a repeat prescription. If I'm far too early....and by that I mean a week I'm asked why that is.


Honeybun
X

[peegeetip]

If its runs out it runs out. Its going to be depleted and weaker near the end of the 3.5 days we should wear it (2 per week).

If Warwick feels on the last day that the patch is not working then its not working.

Over the course of the year we are going to have some that fall off due to adhesive issues or other mistakes. So we need more patches anyway than other solutions.

Sorry your doc is controlling you so much HB. I'd certainly tell mine to mind their own business and realise that patches, however good are not exactly the best for sticking

 

[honeybun]

I don't think telling my GP to mind her own business would work to be honest 
They just run a tight budget I think but I requested the patches years ago and they are the more expensive option. They never quibbled at all.
My Evorel never fall off, it's getting them off that's the issue so that excuse wouldn't work either.


Honeyb
x

[peegeetip]

Lets just see if this helps Warwick