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[Dana]

jedigirl - What kind of "counsellor" is she, because she sounds a lot like the naturopath I saw for a while, who ended turning me into a complete basket case. Her method was to "rid" my body of estrogen, while supplementing me with progesterone cream. Of course I know now that my poor body couldn't afford to lose what little estrogen it had, because I was going out of my brain with insomnia, anxiety, depression and hot flushes, and more progesterone was something I didn't need, and that's why I ended up in a complete mess - and dependent on diazepam.

However, I was probably further along my peri/post meno journey then than you are now. I suspect that with the way all my symptoms hit me literally overnight, I may have gone straight from "normal" to post-meno pretty quickly. Having said that, just tread carefully my lovely. 

[jedigirl]

She's a women's health counsellor, specialises in menopause and infertility. Also trained in reflexology and acupuncture. Shes not anti hrt, in fact she reassured me that I need it, but after having a relapse we looked at my symptoms and cycle together and she suggested reducing the estragen to see if it helps. I'm monitoring carefully believe me x

[BrightLight]

I'm never going to understand the apparent dismissal of progesterone, it's logical that it forms part of the symptom picture. Menopausal symptoms could be seen as a form of PMT and progesterone is recognised as part of that. Why fear progesterone and not oestrogen?

Adding any hormones is a tricky business in my opinion and I'm sure the doctors that work with both hormones are taking due care with their patients. My GP that mentioned progesterones role in my symptoms was very balanced in her information and gave me a general picture and was quite honest to say that NO hormone therapy can get things 'right' and we can't know for sure what is going on with cycles and transition, it's not exact and as such we can try various things. Seems sensible to me.

[GeordieGirl]

I'm never going to understand the apparent dismissal of progesterone, it's logical that it firms part of the symptom picture. Menopausal symptoms could be seen as a form of PMT and progesterone is recognised as part of that. Why fear progesterone and not oestrogen?

Adding any hormones is a tricky business in my opinion and I'm sure the doctors that work with both hormones are taking due care with their patients. My GP that mentioned progesterones role in my symptoms was very balanced in her information and gave me a general picture and was quite honest to say that NO hormone therapy can get things 'right' and we can't know for sure what is going on with cycles and transition, it's not exact and as such we can try various things. Seems sensible to me.

Apparently in ancient times Chinese Empresses used to digest the urine of teenage girls (dried and treated) - in this way they got the whole gammut of hormones that they'd have had when  their bodies were at their peak. It's logical that if we're replacing hormones, we look at balance so that our hormones are the levels they should be naturally (or would be before they started to give up on us).  Bright Light I don't understand why any significant hormone would be missed out of the list either, natural progesterone has some very good protective properties so why would this be overlooked?

I hope you manage to get the balance right Jedigirl,

GG x

[Suzyq]

I definitely suffered immensely from low progesterone for a couple of years. After a year or so I was placed on progesterone and my symptoms went away (during that time my estrogen levels were normal). Later on my estrogen dropped and then I went onto full hrt. Whether people believe we need progesterone or not is up to you! I felt very ill without sufficient progesterone and much much better with daily progesterone. Even when I eventually went onto full hrt, I still feel better on daily progesterone. My specialist also strongly believes balance is necessary and that progesterone has many functions and benefits besides purely creating a bleed - a very simplistic way of looking at the role of progesterone .... One thing it definitely does for example, is increase insulin resistance so all those women feeling ill with low blood sugar may well consider adding some progesterone rather than eating non-stop sugary snacks!

As to all those women with hysterectomies who are perfectly happy without progesterone - I do not believe this is the case! A simple scan of these websites reveals many are taking progesterone in some dose, despite no apparent medical need!

At the end of the day hoh ugh I see no need to prove or disprove the benefit of either progesterone or full hrt - let people try both of neither and do what works best for them!!

[dahliagirl]

I would have thought that with the complicated feedback loops of the menstrual cycle, that the disintegration of the corpus luteum and reduction of progesterone would help restart the oestrogen and FSH for the next cycle.  Ovulation does not always happen during perimenopause, because the oestrogen levels produced by the ovaries are falling, so replacing progesterone towards the end of the cycle may help here, and probably some oestrogen as well.

Sometimes several follicles try to ripen at the same time, and you can get too much oestrogen all at once.  I have no idea if hrt would help with this or not.    Having some oestrogen with your progesterone probably stops your levels reaching rock bottom, and setting off overcompensating surges.

I keep reading that menopause is when periods end, but that seems very very simplistic.  There seems to be so much up and down to put up with, both before and after periods end that periods seem to be only a small part of it. (although they certainly make their presence felt in many dysfunctional ways).

I think the best way would to be to go back on to combined oral contraceptives, knock out the whole system and have nice level hormones.  This served me well for years moodwise, but knocked out libido and all the progestogen made my bowels very sluggish.

Anyway, I have found an animated diagram which shows you some of the feedback mechanisms.  Hope you find it fun 

http://highered.mheducation.com/sites/0072495855/student_view0/chapter28/animation__positive_and_negative_feedback__quiz_1_.html

[GeordieGirl]

It's unfortunate that most of the information I've found so far about the benefits of progesterone-only supplementation has been written by those with a commercial interest. Often, an article that reads well and makes sense will have an ad for a progesterone supplement at the bottom or bobbing around in the margin.

There are 15 ads in the margin on the home page on this site... Sometimes as well if ads are placed by google (as in the bottom of the front page), the site owner doesn't actually choose what is shown there, but it's autofilled depending on the browsing habits of the viewer.

I do share your cynicism though, but mainly to do with the big pharmaceuticals who make billions from HRT across the globe - no wonder they have the bottomless pockets for the slick marketing and PR campaigns so our GPs tend to think of a brand name as if it was a generic substance..  Yep, I'm a cynic....

GG x

[BrightLight]

I definitely suffered immensely from low progesterone for a couple of years. After a year or so I was placed on progesterone and my symptoms went away (during that time my estrogen levels were normal). Later on my estrogen dropped and then I went onto full hrt. Whether people believe we need progesterone or not is up to you! I felt very ill without sufficient progesterone and much much better with daily progesterone. Even when I eventually went onto full hrt, I still feel better on daily progesterone. My specialist also strongly believes balance is necessary and that progesterone has many functions and benefits besides purely creating a bleed - a very simplistic way of looking at the role of progesterone .... One thing it definitely does for example, is increase insulin resistance so all those women feeling ill with low blood sugar may well consider adding some progesterone rather than eating non-stop sugary snacks!

As to all those women with hysterectomies who are perfectly happy without progesterone - I do not believe this is the case! A simple scan of these websites reveals many are taking progesterone in some dose, despite no apparent medical need!

At the end of the day hoh ugh I see no need to prove or disprove the benefit of either progesterone or full hrt - let people try both of neither and do what works best for them!!

Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm seriously considering finding a way to supplement progesterone. Did your specialist prescribe it for you, before full HRT?

[Suzyq]

Yes I was prescribed progesterone - initially in a bio-identical cream - no not the kind you can buy over the counter - this gave me 60mg applied twice per day. We then switched to utrogestan - really exactly the same thing.  I managed very well on this for a long time. I initially thought I had pmdd as my symptoms were so severe (headaches, vertigo, heart racing, terrible anxiety and panic etc) but it turned out that I needed progesterone. The easiest way is probably to get a prescription for utrogestan and try that! It took around 4 weeks for me to settle on it so don't be discouraged if it doesn't work straight away ...

[BrightLight]

Thank you Suzy. The brand name has been mentioned to me by a private GP I consulted a while back and she indicated that I have the option to try this on its own. My regular GP wasn't so open to any discussion. Thanks again.

[GeordieGirl]

Because I'm still waiting for my clinic date after initially going to my doc right back in December, I've decided to supplement with a small amount of progesterone in the interim and have been using 50mg per day. I've recently had the best nights sleep I've had in around 10 months so I'm really hoping this is linked.  I have been feeling a little drowsy today so I may cut the dose but I'm watching to see how it goes first.  If it sees me through to the clinic appointment then that's a bonus, if it's working I may ask for the same dosage but on prescription.  If this whole area is trial and error I may as well get the ball  rolling.

GG X

[Annie0710]

Because I'm still waiting for my clinic date after initially going to my doc right back in December, I've decided to supplement with a small amount of progesterone in the interim and have been using 50mg per day. I've recently had the best nights sleep I've had in around 10 months so I'm really hoping this is linked.  I have been feeling a little drowsy today so I may cut the dose but I'm watching to see how it goes first.  If it sees me through to the clinic appointment then that's a bonus, if it's working I may ask for the same dosage but on prescription.  If this whole area is trial and error I may as well get the ball  rolling.

GG X

GG, was this prescribed ?
Xx

[BrightLight]

Good for you Geordie Girl, I agree its trial and error whichever way we address these issues. Hope it continues helping.

[GeordieGirl]

Hi Annie,
I haven't had anything prescribed yet although my doctor admitted that it sounded like I needed progesterone (after I'd put my argument forward) but she was "of her depth so would refer me to the clinic" I've started with 50mg just as a start but aim to cut it to 25mg. I'm intrigued to see if the sleeping issue I've had is on its way out or whether it's just been a fluke. I'm also taking notes with regard to memory, and how many times a day I struggle to remember words etc as that was becoming a major issue for me.

GG x

[Suzyq]

I agree it's trial and error - definitely! When I used to read the lists of too much/too little estrogen/progesterone I just got in a right state cause they all seemed to overlap! Now I know what symptoms I have that relate to too much or too little of one or the other.... Really just learned this over time and I also had frequent blood tests for the first 6 months. It does get easier but keeping a diary and not changing too much too quickly is a great way to go.