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[Dancinggirl]

Menopause may not be life threatening but it can often be life limiting - if society wants women to work longer and be productive members of society then symptoms need to be addressed.  Women giving up work or limiting their lives because of meno symptoms cost the economy a great deal.  Also too many women with premature menopause are not advised or treated appropriately and oestrogen deficiency before the natural age of 51 can and does lead to long term health problems that may well mean we die before our time.
It is often very difficult to build any kind of relationship with the GP these days - I've seen 4 different GPs and 2 practise nurses over the last year. DG x

[peegeetip]

Very well said DancingGirl, totally agree with your thoughts there. Your point on building a relationship with a doc rings true. You get a different angle/story/view/rhetoric from each 

Just to confirm also 

High blood pressure and type two diabetes won't kill you directly!!
The secondary conditions they exerts on our bodies could kill you though.

I know someone who has had high blood pressure for 15 years now and even though the drugs don't reduce the pressure to normal levels, they are still here and living normally.

This is exactly the same with menopause to avoid the obvious here does us all disservice.
Menopause won't kill us directly but some of the secondary conditions it brings with it could kill also.

Both High BP and type two diabetes are part of aging too.
But neither are treated with the derision that we peri/meno suffer from.
This derision seems to be encountered so often and posted about here on the forum.

 

[BrightLight]

I really think that the menopause is natural and that the symptoms experienced at this time are part and parcel of an aging body.  Part of the issue with GP support, in my view is that they are looking for symptoms to prescribe for, that is their job.  Symptom x requires x medication and so on, the symptoms they prescribe for are in the main hot flushes and vaginal dryness.  The emotional symptoms anti-depressants etc.  They approach thyroid, BP and other issues in exactly the same way - long gone are the days of GP's being able, have the mind, time or financial incentive to take account of your whole  body over a long period of time.

Menopause is necessary otherwise we would have a lot more babies in the world   Who would be the grandmothers and carers of teenagers?  Also, I think we are not designed to have hormones rushing around in our bodies long term, they are growth promoters, hence the increased cancer risk as we age. 

We go to our GP's and arrive here on this forum with many symptoms that we think are related to the menopause and maybe they are, but increasingly I think that we need to remember that menopause is a marker for increased arrival of other health problems, so in some ways, the GP's are correct in not attributing symptoms to menopause which is why I think the promotion and self education on correcting nutritional deficiencies, identifying food allergies, correcting thyroid problems and disturbed sleep are the way forward.  The wobbly hormones are just part of a bigger picture of change, which is never going to be supported medically, as it's a gradual process.

I think a menopause nurse in every practise would be great, to give information, support and advice regarding specific changes to cycles, symptoms and also general healthcare advice for this time in life, that goes beyond our hormone levels declining.

[CLKD]

Well said BrightLight! it would be great to have a menopause Nurse at least in the main practices across the UK [we have a satellite surgery and our main Practice is 4 miles away].  It would also be nice to have a Community Psychiatric Service available to, in order to tie-up anxieties regarding this time of Life.  It would save time for the GPs!

[BrightLight]

I am in the process of changing surgeries, because they do have a nurse that offers a 'well woman' service, nothing like that at my current surgery.   

Psychiatric Nurse would be another great thing - our services are not linked at all, you need to be referred by your GP and to be honest, it does work quite well, it is called the "Well Being" service and they assess your situation and need and take it from there.  However the GP often knows nothing about your access of that service after he has passed you on!  There lies a flaw - lack of communication and the need to explain things to your GP, whose eyes glaze over because they can't connect the dots.

[peegeetip]

Then we'll continue to be treated like we are malingerers if we take your approaches.

Psychiatric Nurse, you go from one stigma to another 
Its bad enough getting ladies to the doc's without making them feel like they are psychotic
Most peri/meno anxiety is tied to lack of hormones we feel and certainly not due to a lack of AD's.
It also gives us a medical record could impact our lives due to ingrained stigma around mental health issues.

How about just getting doc's to treat this condition with an even and fair hand, with the respect and empathy it requires first. Then we might not need psychiatric intervention due to extended periods of ignorance.

I agree a lot of illnesses are part and parcel of aging.
But you really didn't take on the likeness between the 3 mentioned conditions.

Two get taken seriously by the sufferer and the doctor.
One does not and that is peri/meno care.

The menopause is not necessary at all.
That would be like saying a man should stop producing sperm at 50 when his dna say he can gleeful father chidren into his later life. If logic were to apply it should be the man who stops as he's unable to work/provide for children into later life, whilst nursing/looking after babies is what grandmothers can happily do into later life.

To even say this in this way has no thought for the poor ladies who are affected earlier with peri/meno and wanted children. Perhaps they don't feel all that natural about it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2617332/My-miracle-baby-20-years-I-went-menopause-aged-17-Rachel-confounds-medical-profession-giving-birth-daughter-Holly.html

Your views cause confusion on how we are treated with this condition

Some have so much to say about why they might not take HRT right now.
However had they had raised blood pressure then the prescription would be gladly taken without question or lectures on side effects.

In relation to the "they are growth promoters, hence the increased cancer risk as we age" what nonsense.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/misconception-about-estrogen-therapy-caused-50000-deaths-women-post-hysterectomy-247813
We can get cancer at all stages of life and for a myriad of causes most are cast earlier in our years, down to luck or lack of it (in our genes), our way of life, our circumstances even, our location can effect this and even down to whether we breast fed or not etc etc etc.
To pin the cancer on just hormones just adds to the aversion and scare stories that sometimes causes most of the damage to how peri/meno is treated.

[Dancinggirl]

Menopause is a relatively modern condition.  Is it natural to get to 50 or even 60 years of age? Not that long ago we were lucky to get to 50 so the menopause wasn't an issue. Why are they having to raise the age of retirement? We are all living longer than used to be 'natural' and because we are getting better at treating age related problems this is putting enormous strain on our health system.
Bottom line is 'quality of life' and if meno symptoms prevent us from working and living life in a productive way then these symptoms need to treated. Not everyone will need or want treatment but I personally believe the benefits of offering women choices over appropriate treatment is cost effective for the economy and society as a whole.  DG x

[Dorothy]

I think the problem with the word 'natural' is that it is often seen as something 'good'...you see slogans advertising food etc 'as nature intended'.  'Getting back to nature' etc.  All lovely stuff.  We don't tend to use it to describe the less pleasant things so much (so 'nature' is watching pretty birds singing in hedges, not watching a buzzard ripping another bird apart... although that is very much 'natural' too!!!) So describing menopause as natural might mean it is seen as something good or at least something that doesn't require any help? 

Also, there are many, many conditions which are life-limiting, but not life shortening or life threatening which are taken seriously by GPs so I don't see that menopause should be an exception.  What about the number of people who turn up with bad backs?  I have a friend who regularly visits her GP with an eye problem and receives really good care.

And what about the increased risk of osteo or heart failure if you start young?  Early menopause isn't a killer, but heart failure is!

[CLKD]

Most anxiety is tied to lack of hormones we feel and certainly not due to a lack of AD's.


Sadly, I had my first panic attack at age 3  and anxiety has plagued me since.  Certainly NOT hormonally linked.  Some depressive episodes however have been as I used to cry before my period started.  As for the stigma of mental illness, I think this is something that will continue for many years yet! 

The menopause is not necessary at all. ………. can you explain ………. I'm so pleased not to have periods any longer with the mess, cramps, over-whelming pain that I suffered every month!

[honeybun]

The menopause is not necessary at all.
That would be like saying a man should stop producing sperm at 50 when his dna say he can gleeful father chidren into his later life. If logic were to apply it should be the man who stops as he's unable to work/provide for children


I can't actually beleive that anyone would think like this.

Men do not become pregnant, they do not carry the children, they do not give birth.

To be honest that statement is just....well 

Of course it's necessary, women are not bodily fit nor able to carry or nurture a child of their own in there late 50s or 60s.

I can't see anyone being derisive regarding HRT. I take it and have done for 5 years and very glad of it I have been.
Where is the derision regarding HRT on this forum.



Honeybun
X

[GeordieGirl]

I must admit at 48 I'm not ready to hang up my boots and open the door to osteoporosis, cardio vascular problems, brain fog and cognitive decline ....and a host of other issues caused by hormone imbalance. I aim for longevity and want to be as fit and healthy as I can.

Insulin is a hormone and the deficiency is treated without question. Thyroid likewise - although quite often it's overlooked when it should be one of the first things checked. Our bodies are controlled by a large number of different hormones and that balance keeps us fit and healthy, keeps the machine well oiled and working well. One imbalance can knock another and then we get a host of unpleasant symptoms.  And the worse thing is, it's unnecessary.  This isn't just menopause that's ignored but other issues too, I have friends who've suffered some debilitating issues since young adulthood and only after a number of decades was it realised hormone imbalance had an effect. Endocrinology is a specialist topic covered by few GPs, it should be a core subject imho.

How many women here were offered a hormone test before a box of pills? My GP was ready to give me any old box of tablets (and she's a woman!).  Why? Why the guess work when a decent test will check not only my progesterone, oestriol, oestrone, oestradiol BUT also other hormones like DHEA and thyroid? The vast majority of our hormones start to decline from our second or third decade on.

The debate about the safety of HRT is used as an excuse for ignorance in some practices - the same practices who are happy to dole out other pills that have their own eye watering list of side effects.

It breaks my heart to read of some of the symptoms people on here are suffering, symptoms that perhaps a full hormonal profile and tailored treatment could resolve or relieve in many cases. How many people have had pregnenolone or DHEA levels checked amongst their other hormones? Surely getting it right first time would not only save the guess work and prolonged pain and anxiety of the patient, but would also be much cheaper in the longer term as there wouldn't be as much time spent on other issues.

In a world with so many options available it should be our choice whether we want to use these, and we should be given the right information by those we trust in this. Unfortunately it seems like we can rely on neither.

GG x 

[Hurdity]

I don't agree with the statement that symptoms experienced around the time of menopause are "part and parcel of an ageing body".

That is the whole point of all of this - both men and women are subject to normal cellular, physiological and structural ageing processes, which can damage our health, and some of which are treated. Menopause is unique to women and involves a sudden loss of sex hormones and the ensuing symptoms and accelerated decline in many areas of health. It is very important in all this to distinguish between symptoms and conditions caused by menopause and those which are part of normal ageing.

I can't see how anyone can argue with this. If you like - menopause is a specific, and relatively sudden onset of part of the ageing process which can have extreme symptoms as well as negative effects on health for may years beyond the actual date of the "natural" event.

It is simply beyond belief that women are entreated by some doctors to "get on with it" because it is "natural".

Of course it is a choice - whether or not to treat the symptoms, and/or the long term conditions resulting from oestrogen deficiency - but everyone woman should be given the choice, and be fully appraised of the facts (ie the evidence we have so far) on health conditions affected by this hormone deficiency and mortality risks so as to be able to make an informed decision - and not one based on ignorance or that it's just a few hot flushes ie if you can get through it and these stop at menopause or shortly afterwards - you're off the hook and your long term health will be unaffected.

Hurdity x

[BrightLight]

Looks like I said something 'wrong' again - thought the topic was to consider why GP's aren't able to take on board our arrival at the surgery and adequately offer guidance and treatment and thought my suggestions were quite realistic.  I wasn't referring to HRT.

Mental health is a stigma, a wellbeing service of psychiatric nurse or similar doesn't remotely consitute psychosis.

Accepting that we are more than our hormones is important I think, just as important as acknowledging their role, but really, it's not B&W and I think it's a bit negative to think so.  There doesn't have to be a decline in health either, it's just a shift as to how our bodies operate and we need to adjust, that's all - GP's aren't that supportive.  Severe symptoms or mild ones, they just don't take any of it on board.

I do happen to believe that hormonal imbalance can contribute to cell overgrowth (potentially leading to cancer) - my comment wasn't about HRT.

[BrightLight]

I don't agree with the statement that symptoms experienced around the time of menopause are "part and parcel of an ageing body".

Some of the symptoms experienced can be symptoms of other things, not just menopause and those things happen to occur at a similar time - that's my understanding. Each can be treated or not treated, depending on the severity.  My point was that GP's don't seem that bothered about any of it, unless it's chronic or a certain severity (menopause or otherwise). 

[peegeetip]

Dorothy, you've put it really well and hit the nail on the head the misuse of the "natural" word  I feel the same in the way we use Natural so generically these days from yoghurt to face creams the misuse just confuses. Hence my thought that if we put our condition inline with other conditions then we'd remove this misnomer that seems to obfuscate our real problems of peri and meno.

Limpy, perhaps you can bring more to the discussion or comment on some of the other items we're discussing. I'm certainly not shouting at anyone.
I'm discussing a view that we and others need to reassess how we view our peri/meno years to move away from the malaise we have arrived at over the years from our medical services.
From the evidence we see on the forum's "tip of the iceberg" your assumption that "they do their best" does not seem to ring true, its the 21st Century and its not good enough for us.
Look forward to your comments or suggestions to help change/make things better

CKLD, I've adjusted the earlier post to clarify that I'm talking about the peri/meno period.
Mental illness can strike at any age however there are clear paths to peri/meno anxiety due to changes then lack of hormones and other vit/min/chemical inbalances.
There are many posts that seem to indicate that adding hormones back via HRT or the pill can reduce or clear these feelings (without the need to have AD's)
Sorry to hear you've been so affected since an earlier age. I think a lot probably had anxiety when we were young but most of us don't remember those day. Amazed you can remember back to the age of 3 
As for your last post I dont really understand your point? Your just pointing out a benefit of menopause in isolation? The earlier point was we are not supposed to have children after menopause (not look forward to cessation of our monthly period) But you seem to have missed the point I made 

Brightlight, your welcome to your opinions but your talking from an early point in your journey. The point I made was simply "lets not call it natural anymore" however I seem to have to defend why this might be a good idea.
You've said a few points and I disagree with your some of your points thats all