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[honorsmum]

What the title says, really.
Had a weird day yesterday. It was my son's 9th birthday and although he was at school, his godparents turned up unexpectedly with his card and present. It was lovely to see them but they stayed for a couple of hours, which completely threw my plans for the day out, and I felt jittery after they'd gone.
I felt ok when I went to bed (late) less night, but when I woke up at 6.30am today, I immediately felt really quite low. I lay in bed and tried to sleep until DH brought me a cuppa at 8am.

This feeling has happened before in exactly the same way, and I'm wondering if it's part of PMT? Sort of feel my period could be due this weekend, but hard to say as my cycles are up the spout.

Pre-peri, I didn't relay get bad PMT - just a bit grumpy and irritable, maybe a bit teary but not gloomy.
I don't think I've been depressed the rest of the month, although I struggle with motivation at times, and I have days where I feel perfectly normal - which suggests the low feeling is hormonal.

What do you think?

[Dancinggirl]

I did find that PMT symptoms were augmented when I was peri meno.  Before I was diagnosed with peri meno I kept thinking I was pregnant as my periods were late, my breasts got really sore, I had a headache all the time and felt generally tetchy and low.  DG x
PS I thought the word 'augmented' was appropriate for a musician?

[honorsmum]

Thanks DG - and yes, augmented is a musician's word...although in this case, I'd prefer to be talking diminished!

My boobs (or rather, go on singular) have been painful this week. I feel weepy, but can't actually have a good cry, and irritable. I hate the sudden feeling of desolation the depressed bit brings - it scares me into thinking I might never feel happy again.
I'm keeping a diary now, so at least I can see any pattern there might be.

[BrightLight]

I really think its safe to hold onto the notion that this isn't permanent. I recognise the comings and goings of what you describe. Maybe the very fact it is transient will help you keep the faith that this is all part of a transition, that will end.

When this was happening to me a lot and still does, there came a point where I just ignored it, for ages I kept wondering 'what's wrong' and what do I need to do. There was never a clear answer. Now, I have a few things that help me get to my feelings about the turmoil, not the mood as such, does that make sense? I play piano or sing, these are the things that help me clear away mental chatter and get to the heart of things.

Often this technique helps me move onwards and detach slightly. I guess it's a sort of distraction technique but also for me it helps me see what I'm really feeling. For me, the root feeling is, I don't really like this but I'm going to let go to it, I can't change it. It's quite hard to admit that to myself but when I do I often feel better.

It's horrible to feel flat about things you usually feel good about. x

[CLKD]

It happens to me often.  Most mornings until I am out of bed and at it, my brain feels low.  I used to wake terrified and deeply afraid but that past [passed?  ] with ADs.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Yes, definitely hormonal I would say. I get exactly the same. Sudden inexplicable feelings of hopelessness and despair. They arrive out of the blue and are really nasty. Luckily they fade away usually within a few hours, but can last as long as a couple of days (though this is usually the days just after ovulation) and then again just before my period arrives.

The feeling of hopelessness can come on so quickly, in less time than it takes to make and drink a cup of tea. But then can lift as quickly.

At Xmas I started a car journey to see relatives and felt so hopeless and low that I really couldn't bring myself to speak to DH and our children. But by the end of the 45 minute journey I was happily chatting and singing along to the radio.

I honestly am not mad though. I have quite a senior responsible job which needs a clear head at all times.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Honour, every single time the feelings of hopelessness arive I am convinced that this time they won't go away. Every single time.

But they have come and gone about 150 times this past year. I keep a Mood Diary which really helps to reassure me.

Agree with brightLight in that you should try to just accept them and let them wash over you. Keep telling yourself 'I will probably be fine by this time tomorrow'. This seems to lessen their hold over me and stops me being so scared of them.

Don't laugh, but when they arrive I adopt a bored tone of voice and 'speak' to them 'Oh here you are again, how tiresome. Well do your worst, we both know nothing bad is actually going to happen.' It helps minimise them a bit 

[honorsmum]

Thanks, girls (it IS ok to call you girls, isn't it? )

It's so reassuring to know it's not just me. On good days, I can completely rationalise the bad days, but on bad days...  It's so wearing to go to bed feeling pretty good, but then to wake up feeling either full of adrenaline or totally flat and devoid of any feeling.
I feel like I'm in limbo, waiting for something to happen and to wake up without how I'm feeling being the first thing on my mind.
The really bleak feeling doesn't come around very often and doesn't linger, but the feeling of "too much effort, can't be bothered" is often there and it sucks, frankly.

[Millykin]

Girls is much appreciated 

[CLKD]

Call us what you like so long as it's polite 

[Hurdity]

Yes honorsmum - sounds hormonal to me - it just happens despite circumstances and feels as though it's out of your control.

You're all really brilliant the way you are learning to understand and recognise that your feelings are hormonal, to go with them and recognise that the feelings will pass and you will feel better once your levels stabilise again (or your oestrogen rises!).

I went with mine but only because I was totally unaware I was peri-menopausal and knew very little about it!

Having said that - a few years ago several of us were discussing on here that once the hormonal fluctuations are over and hormones are stable, we never quite got back that wonderful zest for life that we experienced when we were in our fertile years. You have the lows, and the pms/pmt, but also the wonderful highs around ovulation and the enthusiasm for everything.

HRT will prevent you from being permanently on low mood (and some manage to be like this without it!) but I never experience those unrestrained highs any more. I'm not depressed but not hugely excited by life nor driven to achieve or experience in the way that I was. I do still get excited but at more extreme things if you see what I mean - whereas once it wouldn't take much! Nowadays I am moved by live music eg at festivals or gigs or when I'm in a beautiful place - scenery or architecture - and often in the sunshine, or perhaps by wild weather and seas.

I expect all this is related to libido too - but I won't go into that here 

As for girls - I am a woman and quite happy to be addressed along with others as "girls" - despite being 61. One thing - I never have been and never will be "A Lady" !!!!

Hope you're feeling more positive today honorsmum 

Hurdity x

[honorsmum]

Ah, Hurdity, your posts are always great!

When you say you don't feel any great desire to achieve any more, would you say you feel more content instead? Does the loss of ambition come with a sense of peace?
I've always been a bit driven, I guess, and now find myself with nothing to stretch me, since becoming a stay at home mum. I want to do "something" with my life now...just have no idea what that something is! I think it would be nice to feel contentment, instead of constant yearning for new, different, interesting, if that makes sense.

When the desolate feelings come over me, one of the biggest thoughts in my head is, "I need a job, a purpose, a distraction - something to stop me dwelling on the feeling of emptiness"...which is true, but seems extra important when I feel awful.
Thankfully, I've felt completely different today - no gloom and much more energy - so it's clearly hormonal. 

[BrightLight]

I really appreciate your perspectives Hurdity and Honorsmum - I am noticing this change as well and a little bit afraid of it - though I have a suspicion that my true peace and happiness does come from the quieter meaningful things and those are sometimes harder to find perhaps, or are by chance, like the weather or a particular moment in time.........hmm

Honorsmum - I have been having the 'need a purpose' conversation too - drives me mad sometimes.  There is truth in it for me, but reading Hurdity's words, I also think I will find it in new ways and I am not quite ready to give up or move on from the woman that has BIG ideas and takes on BIG projects - seems quite alien........all part of change I guess.


I will just add some Chinese Medicine philosophy in here (I am a trained Shiatsu practitioner, although I don't practise with clients right now). Menopause or the natural decline of fertility is to conserve life force - we draw on deep reserves of our energy when in our fertile and reproductive years.  The 'source' of life comes from our Yin energy and the 'zest' is the expression of Yang energy.

So - menopause is a 'life saver' for US in that it is conserving energy to be used differently.  This time is for us and if a woman can adapt her flow of energy (which is what the hormonal change is doing in a chemical way - rewiring our entire body mind) then that energy can be creative again but in a way that circulates and renews within, rather than a procreative energy. 

I guess a metaphor could be that the nurturing comes back to us - that we 'quieten' somehow - I think there is great power and energy in that.  I'm going to call it elegance, grace and more effective choices that go straight to the goal and no scattering of energy.

Good to hear you have a good day Honorsmum

[honorsmum]

Wow, BrightLight, your philosophy is very powerful and uplifting.
I love your idea of grace and elegance - it makes me think of women like Dame Judi Dench over the last twenty years; certainly, she has come into her own in her later years.

I know what you mean about finding happiness and peace in more humble things. I used to be very impressed by designer labels and displays of wealth in my 20's, always chasing the latest trend etc. Looks were everything.
These days, nothing makes me happier than baking bread, walking in winter sun, enjoying a good book, feeling my children are happy, clean sheets(!)
I think at heart I am a nurturer - I like looking after people/animals. Maybe that will be the basis of my new life.

[Dancinggirl]

Brightlight - I really do relate to the philosophy you are describing - I love the 'elegance and grace' description.
I think it is often perceived that senior citizens must be depressed because they do so little with their days when in fact many are just 'content' to have a quieter life. As you rightly say, it is nature helping them to protect and preserve themselves.
honorsmum and Brighlight - you are both rather too your in my opinion to be embracing this side of 'The Change' (Menopause). If you are experiencing this in your mid 50s which is the narwal time of the menopause with possibly ones children probably growing up and growing away and traditionally life calming a little generally, then this would make good sense.  As you are both younger I can understand you instincts fighting against this - quite naturally.  honorsumum, you have young children so need to remain in top form and cannot afford to slow down.
Again I must relate this to my experiences. As I mentioned before I took a break from HRt from the age of 49 to 53. My children were in their young teens and life was very challenging. Coping with the meno symptoms really added to the stresses at the time so it was a relief to go back on HRT. I then had my second break from HRT autumn 2013 -14 and this time was I able to reduce my working hours, concentrate on looking after myself more, practise the Mindful Meditation etc. and the symptoms were far easier to manage and I felt far calmer generally - in a way I was more ready to embrace the slowing down process.  The problem was my bladder issues, burning urethra and lack of sleep was still debilitating and we are the generation that must work for far longer and HRT is again enabling me to be 'on my game' far more. We are also the sandwich generation that have our children a bit later and our kids often can't afford to leave home as early as we did; our parents are living longer and need more support, so the pressures on us are greater at a time when naturally we should be taking it easier. The crippling anxiety that many women at menopause experience must be fuelled by these stresses and then we are bombarded with scares about HRT and made to feel weak if we do decide to use HRT etc. - so much to cope with.
I think accepting that we need to slow down, not try to be 'all things to all people' - stepping back and perhaps be a little more selfish - is probably a good idea when you get to your mid 50s - however life is not allowing us to do this and in your 40s you are definitely not ready for this.
I am about to turn 59 and 60 is looming on the horizon. Though I have worked extremely hard to get where I am now I feel extremely fortunate -  I have a part time flexible job I enjoy, live in a lovely house with beautiful surroundings - I never dreamt I would achieve this but I do still have challenges over my children and older relations that require my constant support. However I have learnt to step back, detach a little more, prioritise and delegate - to preserve my own health and wellbeing; this is not easy but discussing things with all you ladies has really helped.
All this philosophy on a Sunday a morning - isn't MM wonderful?
DG x