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[coolatlast]

All conditions are natural.  Some conditions can be age related not necessarily meno related.  Even conditions which are self-inflicted can be natural ………… the body is a strange critter at times  and it hosts so many bugs etc. 

We don't have enough GPs in the UK.  We don't have enough time ……… so that GPs can make efforts to keep up with current theories ……….


As for men being told to go away ………. that's something we don't know for certain, the issue is to get the man into the Surgery initially 

True!  It's getting them to go in the first place!

[Rowan]

I agree with all HB has said, I know lots of women who have gone through menopause without HRT and are healthy and well. It use to be that if a woman took HRT her peers looked down on her, now you are considered slightly misguided and letting the sisterhood down if opt to not use it and go through menopause naturally. The fact is that nature did not get it wrong, are bodies not designed to be fertile after fifty, we don't lose all are estrogen once are bodies get use to a lowered hormone state a woman can live healthily until old age. HRT can help with hot flushes, vaginal dryness and bone loss and it can give some women a much better quality of life.

Doctors and scientists don't have all the answers hormones can kill and cure, HRT must be the most debated drug of the last seventy years and they still can't mAke their minds up about its safety, so I can see why doctors are not all in agreement about it, they want the best for their patients and its they who write out the prescriptions for HRT hoping that it does not harm the woman and that it does what she wants it to do, and as we see on MM that's not always the case.

As far as I am concerned GPS don't don't boss any of their patients.

[Sarah2]

Women of older generations who didn't take HRT may be alive still but many do not have quality of life.
Look around and see the 70 and 80 year olds with dowager's humps from osteoporosis.
I know of women who from aged around 60, and are now in their 80s, have had no life quality for 20+ years due to osteoporosis - often triggered by early meno.  Not all women get this of course but many will- it depends on your build ( bigger women are less at risk) and many other factors.

I know friends of my mum who were/ are disabled by broken hips etc., had heart trouble or were put onto ADs when what they needed was oestrogen.

No one dies from the menopause but women die from diseases associated with lack of oestrogen. Depression makes women housebound, they stop working, they rely on benefits, their income falls, they may stop eating well, they become lonely, and lonely old people have worse health and die younger than older people who have social lives and interests.

HRT is not a cure-all , it has risks, and very few of us will take it forever. But for some women the menopause is the beginning of a decline in health that continues and eventually leads to premature death or poor quality of life.

Of course this is not the scenario for all women, but  menopause sometimes needs intervention.

[coolatlast]

Women of older generations who didn't take HRT may be alive still but many do not have quality of life.
Look around and see the 70 and 80 year olds with dowager's humps from osteoporosis.
I know of women who from aged around 60, and are now in their 80s, have had no life quality for 20+ years due to osteoporosis - often triggered by early meno.  Not all women get this of course but many will- it depends on your build ( bigger women are less at risk) and many other factors.

I know friends of my mum who were/ are disabled by broken hips etc., had heart trouble or were put onto ADs when what they needed was oestrogen.

No one dies from the menopause but women die from diseases associated with lack of oestrogen. Depression makes women housebound, they stop working, they rely on benefits, their income falls, they may stop eating well, they become lonely, and lonely old people have worse health and die younger than older people who have social lives and interests.

HRT is not a cure-all , it has risks, and very few of us will take it forever. But for some women the menopause is the beginning of a decline in health that continues and eventually leads to premature death or poor quality of life.

Of course this is not the scenario for all women, but  menopause sometimes needs intervention.

I think  all the 'natural' ones and the hrt ones will have to agree to disagree on this one lol.

Me?  I'd rather stick with my hrt.

Going the 'Natural Route' means subjecting yourself to a life where:-

A)  You spend your time plucking out manly chin hairs because you're turning manish and androgynous due to lack of female hormones
B)  Your sex life will dwindle to nothing, because your f..... will have dried up and atrophied through lack of oestrogen - also, desire will dwindle drastically.
C)  Your husband 'could' run off with a younger woman -  because of (B) lol.
D)   Osteoporosis
E)   You will likely Lose all the fullness in your face... collagen breaks down from lack of oestrogen. (I heard someone in the medical profession say that he could tell the minute a woman walked through his door, whether she was on hrt or not - the women on hrt looked 15 years younger!
F)  Your skin becomes a lot coarser and loses its feminine softness....so never mind eventually turning into your mother.  If you don't take hrt, one day you will look in the mirror and see your DAD staring back at you!
G)  Thin, dry hair.......
H)  Almost forgot this one:   Ever heard of 'old lady smell'?  It's got nothing to do with cleanliness and more to do with the fact that, as you age and lose your hormones, your body gives off a different (waxy/musty) smell.... So not only will you lose visual appeal to your other half .. you won't smell as sexy or appealing  to him either anymore!

So the question is .....
Why WOULDN'T anyone want to take HRT?   (especially if they're not high risk.)

[Sarah2]

cool

I'm just coming back to this in case anyone thinks your post misrepresents what I was saying!

I was not saying all women should take HRT. I've friends who have sailed through the meno without it, although one is on another treatment for her bones due to risk of osteoporosis.

I was trying to make some serious points about how long term lack of oestrogen can affect women's quality of life and health. Women won't die from a hot flush but they do die from osteoporosis and can suffer from mental health issues related to lack of hormones, which in turn leads to social isolation and perhaps loss of income, friends, and loneliness in old age. HRT is often used by women who are motivated to have a good quality of life (it's sometimes regarded as a 'middle class' drug if you study the demography) and even if they come off HRT they will do as much as they can to maintain their health - but this doesn't apply to all women.

I hope you aren't being serious to suggest women should take HRT to prevent chin hairs or their husbands running off with other women because this is trivialising the issue - no? This use of HRT for 'vanity' reasons like those you mention makes some women critical of it, when we should be looking at the more serious role it has to play in long-term health. The cosmetic benefits of HRT are a bonus, but it's a bit silly to suggest women use HRT to prevent chin hairs. And vaginal HRT can usually deal with dryness even if a woman isn't using systemic HRT.

Sorry if this sounds a bit of a lecture but I felt you were putting me 100% into the 'HRT camp' when I'm trying to give a balanced view!

[honeybun]

I think the last thing on most women's minds when they go to a GP for HRT is what they look like and whether they will end up smelling like an old woman and have facial hair. It's to improve quality of life and not appearance.

I take HRT to enable me to cope with day to day life and not to make me look better.

Sarah makes some very valid points about how HRT or lack of can impinge on later life.
I agree that bringing vanity into the discussion trivialises things.


Honeyb
x

[Rowan]

coolatlast I could not believe my eyes

"Going the 'Natural Route' means subjecting yourself to a life where:-

A)  You spend your time plucking out manly chin hairs because you're turning manish and androgynous due to lack of female hormones
B)  Your sex life will dwindle to nothing, because your f..... will have dried up and atrophied through lack of oestrogen - also, desire will dwindle drastically.
C)  Your husband 'could' run off with a younger woman -  because of (B) lol.
D)   Osteoporosis
E)   You will likely Lose all the fullness in your face... collagen breaks down from lack of oestrogen. (I heard someone in the medical profession say that he could tell the minute a woman walked through his door, whether she was on hrt or not - the women on hrt looked 15 years younger!
F)  Your skin becomes a lot coarser and loses its feminine softness....so never mind eventually turning into your mother.  If you don't take hrt, one day you will look in the mirror and see your DAD staring back at you!
G)  Thin, dry hair.......
H)  Almost forgot this one:   Ever heard of 'old lady smell'?  It's got nothing to do with cleanliness and more to do with the fact that, as you age and lose your hormones, your body gives off a different (waxy/musty) smell.... So not only will you lose visual appeal to your other half .. you won't smell as sexy or appealing  to him either anymore!"

This is just not true!!

I really can't ague the point, except to say one thing, you are wrong, my mother never touch a hormone in her life, she was beautiful with lovely skin, she did it naturally as you put it, but chose to educate herself on diet and nutrition and skin care, she never smoked or drank alchohol  and walked every where, there are millions of older women out there, who don't take HRT and are surviving to old age healthily.

You are sadly mistaken if you think HRT is all you need, it has its place but to rely on it to prevent some of  the things you have stated then I think you are going to be disappointed.

[Rowan]

Just to say my own hormones caused me a lot of problems! I have had a partial hysterectomy, I have used a very low dose 25 estrodiol patch.

When I was 56  I chose stop stop the patch for a few years, I took a two year college Diploma course, lost weight felt wonderful and was told so many times that I looked nowhere near my age and what was my secret and still am asked this.

I went back on my patch and to be honest it was because of MM, causing me to put it on and take it off in accordance of what I read, I have finally settled on half a patch of a 25 patch which I sometimes forget to put on or it falls off ( I have used  dab estrogel sometimes,  which I had for about ten years occasionally. At the moment I am not using either of them and I assure you I have not fallen apart, my skin is very good, my teeth are solid in my mouth and I have never suffered from VA.

I do as my mum did and have reaped the benefits.

You talk of the older generation who are still alive and do not have quality of life. These women lived through the wars years and before, they did not have the benefit of the NHS, free vitamins, cod liver oil etc. and free milk at school. The baby boomers who came afterwards have had the advantages and will have a healthier old age, I am not sure about some of the young of today though. 

We can also get back to the boring subject of genes and the tendencies we inherit.

HRT is a life choice but to condemn women who choose not to take it, and Doctors who do show concern when prescribing it to some  women to whom it maybe contradictive, to me is wrong.

I did say I would not ague the point, but I do find some of your statements so outrageous we also have not touched on women who cannot  use estrogen, because of breast cancer or other deseases or problems that preclude it.

[coolatlast]

i)   You Lose your sense of humor?  


Sheesh, seriously!       Lighten up!
  I'm not getting my knickers in a twist over some of your opinions! (some of which I don't agree with) - so why not just agree to differ?

Although, judging by the outraged responses from some of you - it looks like i've struck a nerve.......you wouldn't be so up- in -arms otherwise.  (you must think there's some truth in what I've stated!!!!!! 

As for using HRT for 'cosmetic reasons'  - Excuse me for caring how I look as I enter my 'twilight years'  -  I want to feel good and look good.  Nothing wrong with that.

Sarah 2 - I only quoted you, because I was using a tablet, and it wouldn't let me post without 'quoting' for some reason -  Yours happened to be the last post at the time.


Even though its all starting to get slightly cliquey, I'm not sorry I started this topic, as it has got people talking and debating.
~And if we don't talk and debate - then a few years from now -  there won't BE any HRT to discuss.

There will be such apathy and 'acceptance' that they (the med profession),  will decide that women no longer want or need it (except for 'special' cases)  -   And it will be Scrapped altogether.

And that will be that.

[Rowan]

To be honest I think we have struck a nerve in you coolatlast

[coolatlast]

Don't think so somehow! 

[Rowan]

I do care about my health and my appearance and take care of both but I am not daft enough to think that HRT alone is going to do the job!

[coolatlast]

Newsflash! (not hotflash

I too live a healthy lifestyle - I don't smoke, my blood pressure and weight is good, I exercise (moderately)....
but, I am not daft enough to think that lifestyle and diet alone is enough to replace any missing hormones!

You can eat and drink soya milk and soya yoghurt till the cows come home  (and buy up the whole of Menopace from Boots if you so wish ) but guess what?   You will probably be wasting your money -  What it will mainly do is have a placebo effect.

Yes I agree that GOOD  lifestyle changes (even if you aren't taking HRT) will make you feel healthy (and we should all strive to be as healthy as possible) - but, it is still not going to give you the hormones you need, in order to feel the best you can be.

[Rowan]

Report back when you are 67 coolatlast

[Sarah2]

The NHS started in 1948. My Mum was born in 1927. She had the NHS from age 21. They didn't need vitamins ( recent research shows vitamins are a complete waste of money) and they had plenty of milk because it was cheap.
 It's been well established that children who were brought up during the war years were/ are a lot healthier than adults are today due to obesity, eating rubbish food and sitting around all day long on pcs, tablets and in front of TV.

Regardless of the physical effects of meno what about the psychological ones? I've never come across so many women on ADs and anti anxiety drugs or who say they have problems with these until I read these forums. These are being treated with drugs - a research study published last week showed that ADs don't work and are almost useless except for severe depression - when it's most likely that the right sort of HRT would help.

My mum's generation used to talk about having 'nerves' - funny how it all coincided with meno.