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Author Topic: utrogestan/estrogel support group  (Read 736181 times)

juliemargaret

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1725 on: August 02, 2019, 08:06:42 PM »

Ahh pls do Tracey

Hope they are better for you
X
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Butterfly16

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1726 on: August 02, 2019, 08:33:02 PM »

Hi Ladies, I just wondered if anyone had any experience if switching from continuous gel and vaginal utrogestan to oral utrogestan? I've been taking 2x pumps of gel and 100mg for almost 4 months, but I want to try orally as I'm getting some irritation and it's not practical for me to take it vaginally everyday. I've felt okay mood/symptom wise so far, apart from some initial teething problems (breast pain, tiredness etc) although I'm still unfortunately experiencing bleeding on and off. I'm now on my 5th period type bleed (they've all lasted between 6-7 days) but I'm really hoping this will settle down soon as my bleed is a bit heavier today :(

Do you think I should wait until this latest bleed has finishing before I switch route or should I just go for it?! One of the main reasons I've put it off is I'm worried about side effects, but know I'm not going to know until I try. I'm also not sure if I'm bleeding more due to taking it vaginally, but it's all just completely confusing me now!

I was diagnosed with POI 4 years ago and hadn't had a period for 2 years before starting the HRT.

Thank you :)
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juliemargaret

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1727 on: August 02, 2019, 09:13:56 PM »

Hi Butterfly16

Im.not one of the experienced members at all...so one of the other lovely ladies will im.sure be along soon with great advice...but.im.sure they may say go for it if thats what youve decided youre doing - bleed or not. I take itnyoire post and on conti.method - every day?  I am.peri and on 2 pumps gel an alternate.eve utrogestan 100mg vaginally....like you nearly 4 months. Few.teething probs like u too ..also the bleeds....on my 5th too. Ive been just ok....not as amazing as hoped...had a few days of feeling wiped and one or 2 bad moodys but nothing unexpecred for utro i dont think.Many have said i should.try a cycle...i have been so indecisive as to do this....fear i suppose...and worried to upset the applecart. Upped my gel.to 2 and a half yesterday...and was.today needing to make.the decision.whether to insert my utro this eve as notmal.or.wait until.day 15.and try a cycle. Still undecided at this moment and bedtime.soon hahaha. Youve made a decision....so yes i think do orally tonight regardless of bleed.

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montyzooma7

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1728 on: August 02, 2019, 11:31:49 PM »

Hi, I am a newbie and not even sure if I am posting this in the right place - apologies if I have messed up the forum (!),  but am hoping for some advice.

In June it was suggested as I am 55 that I go on to continuous Utrogestan. All was not exactly stable on the sequential regime - I would go for 4 months without a bleed, then have a couple of regular months, then have a bleed every two weeks, then go for a couple of months without etc and this was partly the reason I welcomed the opportunity for moving to "no bleed".  From day three of taking the Utrogestan daily (100mg), I started to have cramp and then bleeding for 7 days.  It stopped for about 10 days and then started again, this time like a full blown period. 

This has now slowed and rather than using tampons I just use a pad and there is nothing visible on the pad, but when I go to the toilet and wipe myself and check there is light blood in my vaginal cavity - sorry for this "too much information".  What I am wondering is if this could be polyps rather than uterine bleeding ?  I am on 4 x pumps of Oestrogel and 100mg Utrogestan per day plus daily testosterone gel.   Meno doctor has just recommended taking 200 mg daily of Utrogestan for 2 weeks then having a 2 week break (and continue this for 3/6 months, then revert back to one 100mg per day) in order to help with the erratic bleeding but I am concerned about the side effects of the extra progesterone (I was particularly intolerant of Progesterone in the early days and could only manage 7 days in a month), and wonder if it is polyps if this would help control the bleeding anyway?

Although things were not particularly regular before starting the continuous regime, I am now in completely unfamiliar territory, with this erratic "bleeding" and feel very concerned and as though I should just stop HRT altogether.  I had blood tests recently which showed Estradiol at 263 and Testosterone at 19 - the meno doctor has recommended that i reduce the dose of the Testim gel due to this high level. I was only applying a small amount to my upper arm.

The questions I have are:

Is this type of bleeding normal and/or is this indicative of polyps or just a fairly typical light bleed?
Has anyone had success with this 200 mg Utro x 14 days for 3/6 months, followed by 100mg every day from then on?
Would you recommend I continue with the current dose (100mg daily) as I have been taking that for 8 weeks and therefore not for the recommended 3 months as yet?
Out of interest, has anyone had similar levels of T in their blood tests?
I started HRT when I was 52 and peri.  I do not know if I am actually post menopausal as the HRT has in effect taken over my hormone supply/levels.  Is there any way of knowing if you actually are post menopausal other than the likelihood that I am given my age?

I know we are all different, but I would really appreciate any help or advice from this incredible forum.  Thank you in advance x
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westie

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1729 on: August 03, 2019, 07:23:43 AM »

Hello montyzooma

So sorry you are having problems, I am not surprised you are confused!

I too am new to the Estrogel/ utrogestan routine and by no means an expert but given that you do seem to be having erratic bleeding which is clearly concerning you it might be worth asking for a scan to check all is well and put your mind at rest.

Erratic bleeding is to be expected I understand during the first six months of the regime but as you don't know whether you are still in peri or post it is difficult to know whether the bleeding is caused by your own hormones breaking through.

There are so many lovely ladies on here with far more experience than me who will be along shortly to help I am sure.

Just be assured that you will always find help and advice here, it has been a life saver for me and you are definitely not alone.

W xx
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Butterfly16

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1730 on: August 03, 2019, 07:43:17 AM »

Hi jmargaret,

Thanks for your reply. Yes I'm classed as post meno, I'm 40 but hadn't had a period for 2 years and diagnosed with early meno/poi. On the advice of heather currie and a Menopause specialist they recommended a continuous regime, which I thought would be great as no bleeding yay...but unfortunately at the moment they that's not the case :(

I didn't end up taking orally last night as I forgot I'd need to wait two hours after eating and ended up eating too late! I too am very indecisive about what to do regarding whether to try a cycle, but will try and give continuous another couple of months. It's so confusing though, there have been a few times over the last couple of months where I have just wanted to stop altogether, but I've been told I need HRT due to early meno so feel I can't win at the moment! Yes I agree, it's scary making a decision to ty a different route or HRT, wish things were more straightforward. I hope you are able to find a routine and method that suits you soon soon :)



 
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Hurdity

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1731 on: August 03, 2019, 09:56:04 AM »

Hi, I am a newbie and not even sure if I am posting this in the right place - apologies if I have messed up the forum (!),  but am hoping for some advice.

In June it was suggested as I am 55 that I go on to continuous Utrogestan. All was not exactly stable on the sequential regime - I would go for 4 months without a bleed, then have a couple of regular months, then have a bleed every two weeks, then go for a couple of months without etc and this was partly the reason I welcomed the opportunity for moving to "no bleed".  From day three of taking the Utrogestan daily (100mg), I started to have cramp and then bleeding for 7 days.  It stopped for about 10 days and then started again, this time like a full blown period. 

This has now slowed and rather than using tampons I just use a pad and there is nothing visible on the pad, but when I go to the toilet and wipe myself and check there is light blood in my vaginal cavity - sorry for this "too much information".  What I am wondering is if this could be polyps rather than uterine bleeding ?  I am on 4 x pumps of Oestrogel and 100mg Utrogestan per day plus daily testosterone gel.   Meno doctor has just recommended taking 200 mg daily of Utrogestan for 2 weeks then having a 2 week break (and continue this for 3/6 months, then revert back to one 100mg per day) in order to help with the erratic bleeding but I am concerned about the side effects of the extra progesterone (I was particularly intolerant of Progesterone in the early days and could only manage 7 days in a month), and wonder if it is polyps if this would help control the bleeding anyway?

Although things were not particularly regular before starting the continuous regime, I am now in completely unfamiliar territory, with this erratic "bleeding" and feel very concerned and as though I should just stop HRT altogether.  I had blood tests recently which showed Estradiol at 263 and Testosterone at 19 - the meno doctor has recommended that i reduce the dose of the Testim gel due to this high level. I was only applying a small amount to my upper arm.

The questions I have are:

Is this type of bleeding normal and/or is this indicative of polyps or just a fairly typical light bleed?
Has anyone had success with this 200 mg Utro x 14 days for 3/6 months, followed by 100mg every day from then on?
Would you recommend I continue with the current dose (100mg daily) as I have been taking that for 8 weeks and therefore not for the recommended 3 months as yet?
Out of interest, has anyone had similar levels of T in their blood tests?
I started HRT when I was 52 and peri.  I do not know if I am actually post menopausal as the HRT has in effect taken over my hormone supply/levels.  Is there any way of knowing if you actually are post menopausal other than the likelihood that I am given my age?

I know we are all different, but I would really appreciate any help or advice from this incredible forum.  Thank you in advance x

Hi montyzooma7 (what a name!!!)

 :welcomemm:

As westie says if you are not yet post-menopausal then your own cycle will come into play sometimes and lead to unpredictable bleeding. How long were you on the previous HRT and what were your periods doing before you started HRT? This might give a clue as to where you are on the menopause journey. Yes your age is a good indication especially if you were late peri when you started - but some women have late menopause too.

Also if you were taking 100 mg utrogestan for 7 days then this is far far less than the licensed dose so could easily lead to build up of the uterus lining and then unpredictable shedding ) as the lining thickens and the progesterone dose not being sufficient to shed it fully. The licensed dose is 12 days x 200 mg and probably only works well with low to medium doses of oestrogen. High doses of oestrogen often need correspondingly higher doses of progesterone.

If you were not stable on a sequential regime then it isn't likely that you would stabilise quickly on the continuous regime when the cylical regime was inadequate. What is probably happening now is your possibly overthickened lining is beginning to shed in response to the progesterone and may continue to do so for some weeks or months?

In your position I would return to a cycle and take the licensed dose ideally vaginally, have a few "good" bleeds, and then after a few cycles have a scan just after your bleed to check your lining thickness to make sure it is within normal limits, and then take it from there?

Blood tests are notoriously inaccurate. Depending on the units that T was measured - yes that is high but if you apply to your arm did you have the blood drawn from the same arm? How soon after the T application was it taken? I always apply T to the inside of my knee....a pea-sized blob....how much are you using ie how long doies a sachet last? I would ask for another blood test and also SHBG should be measured too. The oestrogen reading is also not high for 4 pumps of gel - although perfectly acceptable if your symptoms are more or less eliminated - my levels are lower than this (on a patch) - maybe you do not absorb it well although the bleeding indicates you are absorbing some of this!

Hope this helps a little and do ask more questions if you need to!

Hurdity x
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montyzooma7

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1732 on: August 03, 2019, 03:21:54 PM »

Hello Westie and Hurdity

Thank you for your advice and comments.

Hurdity I originally started on HRT in 2016 and was on 3 pumps of gel and initially 12 days X 200 mg, but I such bad side effects that the meno dr recommended I came down to the 7 x 1000 mg a month which was far more tolerable. I then increased that up to 12 days x 100 mg as I seemed to have less side effects and understood about the need for a good dose of progestreone to protect the endometrium.  Unfortunately this did not regularise any bleeding as I would sometimes go for 4/5 months without a bleed and then have one closely followed by another. Prior to a special holiday I decided to go on to Northisterone in replacement of the Utrogestan as this had always worked to stop periods when I was regularly having them.  This was a long holiday and therefore a long time on Northisterone.  Unfortunately, when I stopped it I had horrendous sweats (something I had not really experienced before) and it was as though my body was really getting fed up with the HRT. 

Meno Doc suggested I increase the Gel to 5/6 pumps which I did for 12 weeks and this seemed to settle the sweats and I then dropped down to 4 and returned to Utrogestan 100mg x 12 days, but the lack of any certainty in terms of bleeding led me to talk to my GP about going on to a continuous regime. I started this on June 16th and really wish I hadn't! 

Prior to starting on HRT, I had gone for 5 months without a period then one would come along.  I had the odd hot sweat but nothing too significant, but was tired and completely lacking in libido.  I'll have to say that since going on the HRT along with the Testosterone this has completely reversed and possibly for the first time in my life I am enjoying (as is my husband!) a very fulfilling sex life.  That was until going on to the continuous regime and having this  erratic bleeding. 

I will try, the 200 mg vaginally, as you recommended Hurdity. Sorry to be direct, but do I insert one immediately after the other and just hope they don't pop out :) and also if we are able to have sex, presumably I would pop them in afterwards - really sorry to ask.   Hopefully the side effects will be minimised this way and the benefits maximised. 

Thank you for the advice on the testim gel.  I would never have thought putting it on the inside of my knee!  Yes, I did apply it to my arm and there is a 50/50 chance it was the same arm from which the blood test was taken as I alternate which arm I apply it to.  My first blood test after being on the testim gel for 12 months was actually 26.47 nmol/l - my Oestrodial was 1006 pmol/l.  These were in June 2018  so my levels have come down a fair bit but particularly on Oestrodial - recent test was 263.  I make a Testim tube last 8/9 days - it is supposed to be applied to a level that makes it last 7-10 so I thought my usage was ok, but I probably put an amount the size of two peas tbh, so I am going to cut that down to one pea and try it on the inside of my knee.

Thank you so much once again for your help and advice.  x
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Sammiejane

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1733 on: August 05, 2019, 12:55:11 PM »

Montizoomer 7

Can I just ask you if you are still on the estrogen pump for estrogen ?

Have u experienced any hair thinning on the scalp alopecia ?

It's just I'm suffering with hairloss and have been on estrogel for 6/7 months and hair has thinned dramatically but like alopecia which having read on some sites it is a side effect but under frequency not known due to the available data apart from this has been great especially for VA as I have recently swapped to everol patch 50 having been on 2 pumps estrogel but the patch wouldn't stick so swapped to estradot 50 but after 4 days VA worse with burning so have took estrogel again last night but am scared it is causing my hairloss and don't know what to do I'm freaking out
In March estradiol was 195 and testosterone 0.8 now in June this year estradiol dropped to 104 and testosterone 0.6
I'm wondering as having full hysterectomy whether progesterone would balance out estrogen and stop hair loss or is it that estrogen and testosterone to low but can't have testosterone intill my estrogen at 250/300 I'm only 40 so need HRT
Thank you
And I'm sorry u are going through what u are it's so hard for us ladies
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montyzooma7

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1734 on: August 05, 2019, 04:03:23 PM »

Hi Sammiejane

I am sorry to hear your situation - how hard for you.  When I was 49 (6 years ago and pre HRT) I had a problem with thinning hair too and I wondered if it may be connected with entering the peri phase and hormone imbalance etc.  I had blood tests at the Doctors but there was nothing really obvious to suggest a cause.  Since going on to HRT,  and I am using the Oestrogel pump gel, there has been an improvement in my hair.

We are all so different, how we react to different levels of hormones and how we react to the side effects too.  I am sure you will get more helpful contributions from this wonderful resource but I am pretty sure once you can get the right balance for you with your hormones,  you will see an improvement in your well being all round.    Best wishes x
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Hurdity

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1735 on: August 05, 2019, 06:59:07 PM »

I will try, the 200 mg vaginally, as you recommended Hurdity. Sorry to be direct, but do I insert one immediately after the other and just hope they don't pop out :) and also if we are able to have sex, presumably I would pop them in afterwards - really sorry to ask.   Hopefully the side effects will be minimised this way and the benefits maximised.

Thank you for the advice on the testim gel.  I would never have thought putting it on the inside of my knee!  Yes, I did apply it to my arm and there is a 50/50 chance it was the same arm from which the blood test was taken as I alternate which arm I apply it to.  My first blood test after being on the testim gel for 12 months was actually 26.47 nmol/l - my Oestrodial was 1006 pmol/l.  These were in June 2018  so my levels have come down a fair bit but particularly on Oestrodial - recent test was 263.  I make a Testim tube last 8/9 days - it is supposed to be applied to a level that makes it last 7-10 so I thought my usage was ok, but I probably put an amount the size of two peas tbh, so I am going to cut that down to one pea and try it on the inside of my knee.


Yes just pop them in one after the other - those pesky little balls are a right pain! Re the sex hmm yes afterwards is better although I do wonder about the effect of all those fluids  ::) and progesterone mixed - hopefully enough prog will still get to the uterus and maybe try to do it less when on the prog phase??!!!

Re the T - I make a Testim tube last about 17 days through application of a daily pea-sized blob - and still has had a dramatic effect on response (although being older, frequency of shenanigans is not what it was  ::) )

There is a separate long-running thread on Tesosterone in priavte lives so you might want to update us separately on there and one can talk a bit more explicitly without it being read by all and sundry - ie public! https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27959.390.html

Hope this helps :)

Hurdity x
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montyzooma7

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1736 on: August 05, 2019, 08:48:54 PM »

Hi Hurdity,

Thanks for the advice - had a real chuckle at your post. I am slightly concerned about upping the Utrogestan because of the impact of the side effects. I have a job where I have to concentrate for long periods, and if I suffer similarly to when I first started taking it, I will struggle to stay awake.

I will update you on the private link regarding T matters. ::)

Thanks Hurdity you have been more than helpful xx  :)
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montyzooma7

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1737 on: August 05, 2019, 09:17:39 PM »

Hi Hurdity, I have just been on the private lives link that you gave and was interested in the relationship (or effect) your SHBG has on the effect of T and I wonder if you wouldn't mind explaining it.  I understand what you say about test results not being accurate, but my levels in 2018 were T 26.47, SHBG 128.5 and FAI 20.599.  These figures seem to be way above any others that I have seen  :o. These were private tests through meno doctor.  Recent results through GP only tested T. which came back as 9. I am very happy on the T (as previously mentioned  ::)) but I am worried about what these levels, across the board, may suggest ?

Thank you in advance xx
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Acejohnston

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1738 on: August 08, 2019, 10:01:20 AM »

Its nearly 6 weeks since I started BHRT. I am on estradot patches 25mg and ultogestan 200mg day 15-28 and testogel 1 sachet a week. I feel worse than before I started. I have violent headaches, blurred vision, energy is worse, nausea worse and getting more sweats than I had before. I almost feel like I'm drugged. I've also gained 3kg since I started this. Something I am taking is making me a lot worse. The only thing that's improved is the bone pain. Can anyone tell me can I just stop the hormones or do I need to wean off them? Has anyone else experienced worsening of symptoms with BHRT? Thanks
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Tc

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1739 on: August 08, 2019, 11:25:24 AM »

Hiya ace.
Can you identify when the headaches are happening?

Have you suffer from migraine in the past?

I find utrogestan gives me headaches and migraine. I also get nauseas on it, but my migraines cause nausea too.  it definitely gives me that "drugged up " feeling you describe. From my experience and it would appear other ladies on here. It is progesterone which causes the drugged up/spaced out feeling and not eastrogen. 

It is early days on your new regime. Its recommended 3 months to assess how it's working and if anything needs "tweaking". Things can be changed and there are other options if you want to stay on HRT .

But. If you havent suffered these "violent headaches" you describe before in your life. Then i think you should see your doctor.

Best wishes.

Xx
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