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[Greenfields]

Hi Greenfields - I got a lot of lower abdominal cramps with Utrogestan (Prometrium) - I think this is common for many women.
Oestrogel is great - flexible to use and delivers a consistent dose - you may well only need one pump per day.
Sounds to me as though you are getting good advice from your canadian gynae.  DG x

Do the abdominal cramps go away?
This morning I noticed its a little bit less which is nice but the 2 days previous weren't very pleasant!

I've never used estrogel before and have been putting it on at night after my bath. But am wondering, can I shower in the morning or will I wash it off in the process (if I've applied it the night before)? ... just curious as I sometimes want to shower in the morning.   

[Michelle46]

You are fine to shower in the morning. The gel absorbs pretty quickly x

[Dancinggirl]

Greenfields - I'm afraid the cramps didn't subside for me and it's one of the reasons I have stopped HRT - I think Utrogestan really didn't suit me - the cramps may well settle for you as your body adjusts.   Oestrogel absorbs fully within 2 hours so you can swim or bath after this 2 hour absorption time. DG x

[Hurdity]

Just to say Hello Greenfields! Hope you're doing OK with your university course and your new HRT works out for you

Hurdity x

[Greenfields]

Aw thanks for all these replies - and hello back to you Hurdity too!  It's really helpful to know the gel absorbs quickly - the last 2 mornings I haven't had a shower because I've been worried about the hormones being washed away!

The low abdominal pressure thing is a bit weird - it only started the day I saw the gynaecologist and while I had had a few days over the last year where it had happened, this is the first time it's gone on for more than a day. When I saw the gynaecologist, I was still on the patch (that was 3 days ago) - and I switched to the gel ... and things have been fine in terms of hot flashes - I've not had any even though the oestrogen level in the gel is lower than what I was taking by patch.  My mind has remained sharp as well and the anxiety and depression haven't come back yet which is nice. 

But the low abdominal pressure thing has been uncomfortable at times - it was present today and then tonight its gone for a bit ... I hope it doesn't come back as it's hard to concentrate.  My belly is also a bit "swollen" for want of a better description.  I have got a pelvic ultrasound scheduled for November (at 7.45am in the morning - what was I thinking! - I have to turn up with a full bladder and if they can't get a proper picture it has to be done trans vaginally ... oh joy!).  So maybe that test will shed a bit of light.

So at the moment, I pee a lot! Or rather I go to the loo a lot because of the pressure sensation but don't always pee much.  I have also noticed I am gassy ... I managed to fart in the quiet zone of the academic library today - oh dear!

There are a lot of changes going on in my life though - so hard to tell how much is stress and how much is hormones ... the course I've just started is very intense and part of me is thinking - what was I thinking in doing it!  But I'm here now and making the best of it! The weather here has been very very warm as well - I walked home tonight from lectures and although it was close to 10pm, it was like a warm muggy summer evening - very unusual for September.

Hugs to everyone in the UK!

 

[Greenfields]

Greenfields - I'm afraid the cramps didn't subside for me and it's one of the reasons I have stopped HRT - I think Utrogestan really didn't suit me - the cramps may well settle for you as your body adjusts.   Oestrogel absorbs fully within 2 hours so you can swim or bath after this 2 hour absorption time. DG x

How are you adjusting to coming off HRT? Just curious as it's something I've thought about doing but have been reluctant to try because if it impacts my functioning a lot it would be difficult with meeting all the other demands in my life at the moment ... but it does remain a long term goal for me - or short term if my health remains reasonably stable.

[Dancinggirl]

Greenfields - in my experience, how you feel when you come off HRt really depends on where you are in your life and what is going on.  In the past I have taken breaks - once for 3 years in my early 50s - and life was stressful which made it difficult to cope with flushes etc.  This time, apart from really feeling too hot during the the super humid hot days we've had in recent weeks, I have coped better - life is simpler, I am doing less and avoiding stress much better.
I am 60 now and have been feeling that my body simply doesn't want to handle the hassle of HRT any more. 
I have tried just about every HRT combo going as I have been menopausal since my mid 30s.  In my 40s I used to do quite well on a simple Oestrogel plus progesterone (synthetic progesterone for 10 days each month) - I then had a Mirena in my mid 50s after trying most of the continuous HRTs with no success and the Mirena worked OK but was still not ideal.  I then took another break aged 57 and stuck out a year before VA and bladder issues made me think I needed to try systemic again, so I got advice from a private gynae and tried gel with Utrogestan in various regimes. I have to say Utrogestan made me feel wonderfully ‘spaced out' - almost high - which was a great feeling but I did feel rather detached from life.  I got erratic spotting a bleeding and lots of cramping so clearly Utrogestan wasn't doing it's job for me.  I did try Utro vaginally but with my VA problems this proved really uncomfortable.

It wasn't until I moved to Suffolk and the local GP practise, who were clued up about the problems of VA, gave me local oestrogen 3 years ago - this has been a godsend.  I will keep using Vagifem probably for the rest of my life.
There are a couple of other ladies posting on MM at the moment who are taking a break from HRT for various reasons so it's worth having a read. Strangely all of us have noticed a slight improvement in energy since coming off HRT - I do think coping with any progesterone drains our resources a bit - whether poor sleep eventually reduces that feeling only time will tell. I do a lot of Mindful Meditation and brisk walking these days. DGx

[Hurdity]

Great news Stellajane! That validates your decision. Well you wouldn't know anyway as you say - but with your family history - why do the experiment on yourself and find out too late that you were a candidate for osteo? Also unfortunately you now have your sister - genetically close - for comparison. Have you suggested she take HRT too or perhaps she doesn't want to?

Hurdity x

[Greenfields]

Greenfields - in my experience, how you feel when you come off HRt really depends on where you are in your life and what is going on.  In the past I have taken breaks - once for 3 years in my early 50s - and life was stressful which made it difficult to cope with flushes etc.  This time, apart from really feeling too hot during the the super humid hot days we've had in recent weeks, I have coped better - life is simpler, I am doing less and avoiding stress much better.
I am 60 now and have been feeling that my body simply doesn't want to handle the hassle of HRT any more. 
I have tried just about every HRT combo going as I have been menopausal since my mid 30s.  In my 40s I used to do quite well on a simple Oestrogel plus progesterone (synthetic progesterone for 10 days each month) - I then had a Mirena in my mid 50s after trying most of the continuous HRTs with no success and the Mirena worked OK but was still not ideal.  I then took another break aged 57 and stuck out a year before VA and bladder issues made me think I needed to try systemic again, so I got advice from a private gynae and tried gel with Utrogestan in various regimes. I have to say Utrogestan made me feel wonderfully ‘spaced out' - almost high - which was a great feeling but I did feel rather detached from life.  I got erratic spotting a bleeding and lots of cramping so clearly Utrogestan wasn't doing it's job for me.  I did try Utro vaginally but with my VA problems this proved really uncomfortable.

It wasn't until I moved to Suffolk and the local GP practise, who were clued up about the problems of VA, gave me local oestrogen 3 years ago - this has been a godsend.  I will keep using Vagifem probably for the rest of my life.
There are a couple of other ladies posting on MM at the moment who are taking a break from HRT for various reasons so it's worth having a read. Strangely all of us have noticed a slight improvement in energy since coming off HRT - I do think coping with any progesterone drains our resources a bit - whether poor sleep eventually reduces that feeling only time will tell. I do a lot of Mindful Meditation and brisk walking these days. DGx

Thanks for that DG. I really feel that stress is a huge component with respect to the severity of menopausal symptoms - I know it definitely played a role in me getting spectacularly ill when I was in the UK.  Unfortunately things are quite stressful for me in Canada with the degree course I'm now doing - it's much more intense than I ever realized!  And part of me now is wondering what the hell I was thinking in moving back to Canada and doing it!  But it's only a year and I'm hoping I can make it through with the HRT and then reevaluate (once I've got a bit of stability in my life in terms of work and where I'm living) as I would like to try coming off it and seeing how I am.

That said, since I've started the lower dose of oestrogen (via the gel estrogel) I've found that I've had 4 days of low abdominal pressure. Today (the 5th day since i started the new meds) I didn't have any low abdominal pressure (which was nice) but instead, I woke up at 5.18am with symptoms of high anxiety - dry mouth, nausea, upset stomach and feeling very shaky and I was very hot as well.  Not much fun!

I'm guessing some hormone or other (cortisol?) must have dropped to set that off. I meditated for a bit, had a cup of tea, a shower, lay in bed a bit more - and finally felt less shaky and able to get on with the day .. but I'm hoping I don't have to go through that caper on a regular basis because it's very wearing.  I'm guessing it's partly a reflection of my current stress levels too (maybe). 

Like you, I do mindful meditation and I'm consciously trying to step up my practice more at the moment.  However I cannot remove the stresses imposed on me by the course deadlines and the structure of the course - so am trying to take care of myself the best way I can and am realizing that I probably need to take 'mini-breaks' of meditation during the days I'm at uni. We have one day where the first lecture starts at 8.30am and the last lecture ends at 9pm and although it's only been 2 weeks since I started it, I notice I really need to take extra care of myself that day otherwise I feel worn out on the Friday.  Fortunately, all the classes (generally) are crammed into 2 days but, this week we have a training course on 2 other days and I have 3 papers and an exam to write by mid-October!  Seriously what was I thinking going back to school at 53?!

[Dancinggirl]

I do think our ability to cope with stress as we age, generally, is challenging in many ways.  There is a good reason why we should probably slow down and take life at a calmer pace.  Meno symptoms just make everything harder and many women simply have to opt out of many things in life which is a great pity. I do think it's mistake to take on too much - try to be all things to all peoples - when meno hits.  Sometimes we don't have any choice and sometimes we believe it will be good to take on particular challenges to fulfil our lives in some way - either way this can be good and bad.  I think we should only expect HRT to relieve SOME symptoms - some things are not necessarily meno related but perhaps more to do with the ageing process - some do better than others and this is probably written in our genes.
You are nearly there with your degree - think of how good you will feel when it's done - just keep meditating, be kind to yourself.  DG xxx

[nothappybun]

The low abdominal pressure thing is a bit weird - it only started the day I saw the gynaecologist and while I had had a few days over the last year where it had happened, this is the first time it's gone on for more than a day. When I saw the gynaecologist, I was still on the patch (that was 3 days ago) - and I switched to the gel ... and things have been fine in terms of hot flashes - I've not had any even though the oestrogen level in the gel is lower than what I was taking by patch.  My mind has remained sharp as well and the anxiety and depression haven't come back yet which is nice. 

But the low abdominal pressure thing has been uncomfortable at times - it was present today and then tonight its gone for a bit ... I hope it doesn't come back as it's hard to concentrate.  My belly is also a bit "swollen" for want of a better description.  I have got a pelvic ultrasound scheduled for November (at 7.45am in the morning - what was I thinking! - I have to turn up with a full bladder and if they can't get a proper picture it has to be done trans vaginally ... oh joy!).  So maybe that test will shed a bit of light.

Hi Greenfields,
new on here and to hrt, seems we have been through the same, 1st patches and now started with gel and I also have the pressure, swelling of the abdomen and the constant urge to pee and hardly do. I also have a lot of vaginal discomfort and my urethra started hurting a week into the patches. It all started on day 2 of the patches after coming of a low dose pill called Qlaira for 10 months which worked great and gave me no swelling. Dancinggirl has given me great tips and info on how to deal with the "urge" to pee and the vaginal symptoms.
Hope we get results soon
   nhb xxx
PS:(going to read the advice others have given use to put in practice, too  )

[Greenfields]

I do think our ability to cope with stress as we age, generally, is challenging in many ways.  There is a good reason why we should probably slow down and take life at a calmer pace.  Meno symptoms just make everything harder and many women simply have to opt out of many things in life which is a great pity. I do think it's mistake to take on too much - try to be all things to all peoples - when meno hits.  Sometimes we don't have any choice and sometimes we believe it will be good to take on particular challenges to fulfil our lives in some way - either way this can be good and bad.  I think we should only expect HRT to relieve SOME symptoms - some things are not necessarily meno related but perhaps more to do with the ageing process - some do better than others and this is probably written in our genes.
You are nearly there with your degree - think of how good you will feel when it's done - just keep meditating, be kind to yourself.  DG xxx

Thanks DG. I will!
And I agree with many of your points.  I find myself wondering whether more women are experiencing more difficult menopausal symptoms because of the challenges life - and particularly our current culture - are throwing at them.  I know I never envisaged having to retrain in my fifties to try and get work, or separating from my ex, or worrying about money and my future.  And then there are women who are trying to help there own children with child care by looking after grandchildren. And women who work f/t but are also trying to take care of elderly parents.  I think the menopausal transition is a much more stressful decade these days - lots of people having to juggle multiple roles alongside much more uncertainty in wider society around work, housing, money etc. is bound to increase stress levels which impacts on menopause.  I miss the culture I grew up in where there was much more community - people had more stable housing and work.  There was less of a sense of constant 'change.'   

[Greenfields]

The low abdominal pressure thing is a bit weird - it only started the day I saw the gynaecologist and while I had had a few days over the last year where it had happened, this is the first time it's gone on for more than a day. When I saw the gynaecologist, I was still on the patch (that was 3 days ago) - and I switched to the gel ... and things have been fine in terms of hot flashes - I've not had any even though the oestrogen level in the gel is lower than what I was taking by patch.  My mind has remained sharp as well and the anxiety and depression haven't come back yet which is nice. 

But the low abdominal pressure thing has been uncomfortable at times - it was present today and then tonight its gone for a bit ... I hope it doesn't come back as it's hard to concentrate.  My belly is also a bit "swollen" for want of a better description.  I have got a pelvic ultrasound scheduled for November (at 7.45am in the morning - what was I thinking! - I have to turn up with a full bladder and if they can't get a proper picture it has to be done trans vaginally ... oh joy!).  So maybe that test will shed a bit of light.

Hi Greenfields,
new on here and to hrt, seems we have been through the same, 1st patches and now started with gel and I also have the pressure, swelling of the abdomen and the constant urge to pee and hardly do. I also have a lot of vaginal discomfort and my urethra started hurting a week into the patches. It all started on day 2 of the patches after coming of a low dose pill called Qlaira for 10 months which worked great and gave me no swelling. Dancinggirl has given me great tips and info on how to deal with the "urge" to pee and the vaginal symptoms.
Hope we get results soon
   nhb xxx
PS:(going to read the advice others have given use to put in practice, too  )

Aw you're in a good place being here on this board.  I've found the support of others here so helpful - I went through a horrendous time last year - was very ill.  I'm better than I was and I've since taken risks that I never thought I would be able to take - moved countries and started a postgrad course ... just to say, last August (2015) was the first time I was able to read a newspaper from cover to cover ... so I'm amazed at how much my health has improved up to now.  Keep posting on the board and people will give you support. Hugs xx

[Chikabee]

Hi Mary G,

Apologies for the delayed reply.

I am taking 1.5mg oestradiol gel everyday. Sometimes up to 2 mg if feel bit brain fuzzy. I'm also taking Thyroxine 25mcg, and take 100 mg Utrogestan days 15-26 (vaginal insertion). Starting Estriol cream 0.01% for vaginal dryness.

Things seem to be getting ok re mood. Therapy, holiday and lots of tender loving self care; meditation and positivity app (Happify), are helping.

However, during holiday last month and generally when drinking lots of water I noticed increased urge to urinate, and leakage as just as about to sit on loo.

Been to GP, hv had treatment for cystitis, but now been told it could be overactive bladder. Feel damp change knicks around 2-3x a day, and feel stingy/sore.  Been given leaflet for bladder training.

Would it be vaginal insertion of Utrogestan being the cause?

I used to do a lot of Pilates to strengten mid-section & pelvic floor but stopped exercise due to other spine issues. Pity the Pilates has not had long term effects.

Any ideas to improve this situation?

Thanks a lot

Chikabee.

Chikabee, what type/dose of oestrogen are you taking and how much Utrogestan?  I have been on HRT for about 9 years and I was post menopause by the time I was your age. 

From my own personal experience, it is vital to get the oestrogen/progesterone ratio right and I have found that if I take too much progesterone, it has a drag factor, brings down my mood and drowns out all the positive effects of the oestrogen - it also causes migraines but that is another issue.

Through trial and error, I have also found that I need high blood levels of oestrogen to feel good i.e. be well into the 700s.  Anything less than that is useless for me and I feel half baked and not quite there. 

It has taken me years to find the right HRT regime but since starting the Professor Studd regime of Oestrogel/Utrogestan/Testosterone, I don't have any menopause symptoms and feel roughly the same as I did aged 30 even though I am 55.  If you still have menopause symptoms or don't feel as good as you think you should then you probably need to adjust the dose or change your regime altogether.  If you still feel depressed with higher levels of oestrogen you could then consider taking ADs but my advice would be to rule out low oestrogen first.

[dazned]

Unfortunately some do find that vaginal use of utrogeston causes bladder irritation,I did . It always made my urethra burn and feel like I needed to pee.