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[Lynne888]

I was given vagifem more for my constant urination than anything else. I had suffered for years and it got to a point where I could go every 5 minutes and couldn't leave the house.  Vagifem absolutely transformed my life. I've been using it just over a year now and life has been so much better. However, I now find that I am weeing more often again. At the moment I'm going about every half an hour. I seem to have a dull ache between my legs too. I've done what has been suggested here on other threads and used vagifem every day again but it's no better. I couldn't be more gutted because I thought this problem was well and truly in the past. Has anyone else had similar problems and has vagifem stopped working as successfully?

[MINNIE]

 Hi Lynne888. Are you are Vagifem 25? That has now been discontinued and only 10's are available, they haven't given you those without telling you have they?!!

 It may also be that other changes have taken place as well, I started with vaginal atrophy, as a first symptom, but that has now escalated to pelvic floor dysfunction, very tight pelvic floor muscles, and that gives me a dull ache into the groin and buttocks. PFD can affect the bladder, bowel and vagina, as all are held together by the pelvic flooor muscles, like a sling. I am waiting for a referral to a specialist physio for some help!

 Just a thought!

 MINNIE XXX

[Hurdity]

I can't remember where you are in meno or whether you have considered HRT - I think we have exchanged discussions before? Maybe you would benefit from full HRT as well as local oestrogen? Some women are affected more than others.

For me the bladder symptoms got worse and showed themselves after I stopped HRT for a few months - the dull aches etc also including low back ache and a generalised pelvic ache - but these disappeared when I re-started. All these areas have lots of oestrogen receptors and are affected by decrease in oestrogen - sometimes local oestrogen just isn't enough.

Having said that has it got worse since changing to 10 mcg from 25 mcg or maybe you are still using up 10 mcg? Have you asked for double the amount and put two in at once?

Also I don;t think my bladder will ever go back to how it was as even with HRT oestrogen is much lower - so still have to get up in the night sometimes, and always seek out a loo whenever I arrive anywhere!

Hurdity x

PS MINNIE I posted the same time as you so looks like I repeated some of what you said

[Lynne888]

The first lot I had were 25's but for the past year they have been 10's so 90% of my treatment has been 10's.  I have made an appointment to see my GP. I'm really disappointed. I spent years trying to sort my constant urination sorted out and I'm devastated it appears to be on the way back. No doubt I'll have another bout of hospital appointments! I had my last period in February. Problems there too as they said at 55 I should be finished so I had to go and have checks to make sure nothing sinister was going on! I wonder if my GP with think I need to go on full HRT? If it helps I'll try anything! x

[MINNIE]

Hi again Hurdity, your posts always sound far wiser than mine! I tried HRT for a short while, but it was very low dose, and not really "custom prescribed" for my condition. I am due to see my consultant after the physio I am trying, and think I may ask for a different HRT, can't remember which one you are on, can you remind me please?

Sorry Lynne888, I have hijacked your thread, but thought Hurdity might be able to help us both!

MINNIE XXX

[Lynne888]

I've used two vagifem today as suggested and it's gone a little better. I've gone a couple of hours between wees now which is far better. I'm not sure whether to tell my GP about it or not?  I've got other issues, hair loss, depression, all in all I think my hormones are shot!

[Elena]

How about trying a fortnight or a week of 2 per day?  I had the urination problem too and got referred to a special clinic at the hospital.  They advised me to try to hang on for longer each time, which I did, and now I am fine (touch wood).

They also gave me a list of things to avoid eating/drinking which I have now stopped taking any notice of.  It included tea, life without tea didnt feel good

[Lynne888]

I don't think I have enough to do that with although I am going to use another two tomorrow to try and keep things in control. As I have intersitial cystitis anyway I have to avoid acidic things such as oranges (and I love them). I don't drink tea or coffee so I wouldn't miss them! Hope Gp doesn't take me off vagifem if she feels it's no longer doing the job.
I have a very heavy feeling down below just like I did before vagifem so I fear it's all coming back. I'm so worried by  it.

[Lynne888]

Need some advice if you are on full HRT girls. I've been to see my GP.  I told her I doubled up the dose of vagifem yesterday and it was a little better so she has suggested I double up for a month.  She also suggested considering normal HRT. She knows I get info from the forum (of which she is very supportive) and said to ask which HRT others on here  have found useful. I'd be grateful if you could let me know what has worked well for you. I'm not great with tablets, I get side effects to most so I'm interested to know if any of you have had side effects to anything.  Please let me know what works for you particularly if you also use Vagifem!  Thank you!!

[Night_Owl]

Hi Lynne

I have to use the 10mcg Vagifem on *alternate* days, plus a dab of Ovestin cream on the outside area, otherwise symptoms get much worse, this is as recommended by the meno clinic.  This seems to give a consistent dose to the tissues. The absorption period is between 6 and 24 hours.  When I stopped systemic HRT (twice, for 3 months each time but carried on with Vagifem) the bladder problems/VA got worse - so in my case I know that I need the Vagifem *and* systemic HRT to find relief.  It's not perfect by any means but I'd be much worse without it.  On non Vagifem days, I often use Carlson Vitamin E pessaries (ebay) - these are v.different from just Vitamin E capsules, I find them to be very effective.

As you know, we're all different when it comes to HRT and it's all trial and error, what works for one won't work for another etc etc.  I'm an ultra low dose estrogen, three-quarters of 25 Estraderm patch twice weekly - and Cyclogest 400 progesterone pessaries (vag or rectal) every 7 weeks for 10 days.  (I'm progesterone intolerant, that's why the meno clinic devised this regime.)  I don't get a withdrawal bleed on this.  But I am now, at 51, 6 years post meno.

I've found patches to be better than gel - and I didn't get on with tablets at all.  I still get migraines but they were much worse on gel/tablets and pre all HRT.

Quite a few on here use patch (say 50 strength Estrodot) and 200 Utrogestan x 10 on a monthly basis, some have a longer cycle and use Utrogestan every other month.  Maybe that could be a starting point for you - taking the Utro oral rather than vag re: cystitis. 

Happy experimenting, hope you find the way forward, it really is a case of seeing how it goes and tweaking it over time.

Night_Owl
x

[Lynne888]

Thanks for your reply night owl, I shall go armed with any information given on here when I next see my GP. Things have been so great for me for 16 months with vagifem that I feel really down that it's all come back, but even so it's nowhere near as bad as it was yet! My GP makes me feel so much happier, for the 3 years I was with another GP I had absolutely no relief from my constant urination at all so things have greatly improved since then.  I didn't get on well with the pill when I was younger so I am a bit worried I might get the same side effects with HRT.

[CLKD]

Let us know how you get on!

[Night_Owl]

Lynne, just another thought, you could maybe ask your GP for a referral to see a uro-gynaecologist.

Initially my GP referred me to a hospital meno clinic (she admitted that my meno symptoms were so bad that I needed expert advice) - the clinic then referred me on to the urgo-gynae at the same hospital.

Night_Owl
x

[Elena]

I was referred to Urodynamics for my urinary frequency problem.

Just a thought but did GP check for a prolapse as that can cause a heavy feeling?

[Lynne888]

Yes I have been checked for a prolapse. I have in fact got a very very slight one but was told it would not cause any issues as it currently is.
I have had ongoing bladder problems for over 10 years so have had every test you can imagine. I have interstitial cystitis anyway but these past years, the meno has exacerbated the problem.  Vegifem is often used for people with IC even if they are not in meno so it has helped me on two levels I think.  I  know my bladder problems will never go away completely and I have to accept the changes involved but at it's worst I was going to the loo about 70 times a day and at one point just stayed onthe loo because I was back and forth so much. It is wretched and stopped me being able to go out or on long journeys. The thought of it coming back to that level terrifies me!!