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[LadyCC]

Hi all

So I am now apparently menopausal having not had a period for over a year. During that time I was unable to tolerate oestrogel as it gave me heightened oestrogen dominant symptoms.  So  working with my doctor,  I just used progesterone and that was great for me.

Now that I am post menopausal my doctor said I need to introduce oestrogen again and I have been using the sandrena sachets.  It's taken a couple of weeks but once again am experiencing oestrogen dominant symptoms. 

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Marchlove]

I have the same issue which is why I keep to the low dose possible to help with symptoms and not experience histamine and auto immune type symptoms.

You might want to supplement with Dhea and/or testosterone to help with this issue as then you can use very little estrogen. In fact some people don’t use any.

I was trialing this and doing ok but then got covid and everything went a bit haywire! X

[LadyCC]

Hi Marchlove

I have not heard of that approach before.  I have just been told that in addition to taking one Utrogestan Daily,  I should now use progestogen cream which is better absorbed to offset this. Have you heard of this?

[Marchlove]

No, I have not heard of people using both, but I suppose that’s a possibility x

[CrispyChick]

Hello lady cc.

Sorry, I cant help you, but I wonder if you'd be kind enough to share your journey with me?? Im 46 and currently trialing progesterone only as I believe I am estrogen dominant.

As a side - I'm guessing you're only trying estrogen as your doc says you should, not because you are symptomatic???

[LadyCC]

Hello lady cc.

Sorry, I cant help you, but I wonder if you'd be kind enough to share your journey with me?? Im 46 and currently trialing progesterone only as I believe I am estrogen dominant.

As a side - I'm guessing you're only trying estrogen as your doc says you should, not because you are symptomatic???

Hi CrispyChick

Yes, you are right - that is the only reason why I am incorporating it.  I think that there hasnt been enough done in the way of studies on progesterone alone over a prolonged period so maybe she wants to be safe though she did support the data that shows that taking it on its own for an interim period causes no issues. 

I am actually going to speak to a holistic practitioner who specialises in menopause and womens hormones this evening.  Unlike the Dr in question she has come across clients who cant tolerate oestrogen - lets see what she says!

[Marchlove]

Oh Ladycc, do let us know what she says! X

[LadyCC]

Quick update -

The holistic practitioner works with herbs and she says that she can prescribe them and I can take them alongside the HRT (she recommended reducing the amount of oestrogen gel to the minimum doseage when I wasnt initially experiencing the symptoms) and then over time, reducing the HRT until I only use the herbs.

This is of course a novel approach but if testimonials are to be believed on her profile, she has been very effective for women with all different hormonal issues.  Its not cheap and I hesitate as over the years I have spent a lot of money on chasing cures for various hormonal issues to no avail.  One thing that she said though which I think its true, any blood tesst is a snapshot in time and levels can fluctuate so whilst my levels might have been at menopausal levels on the day the bloods were drawn, that could be different on any other given day.

I have not used the sandrena today and already discomfort is easing.  I will have one last ditch attempt at using it on reduced basis, so half 0.5 sachet but only when I get hold of progesterone cream and see how it goes.

[Marchlove]

Interesting, I’m not at all versed in herbal medicine but I always feel the pull of it’s power, though have not used much at all.

The lowest estrogen to control certain symptoms is my current focus. Am trying to feel it rather than think, test or research it any further for now.
What message do I feel I’m getting from my body is the question I try and ask.
I read somewhere that hormone replacement therapy is an art form, how right they are! xx

[CrispyChick]

Wow. That's certainly a different approach.

Could you tell me how you got established on progesterone only??? Im assuming it worked. Utrogestan? I'm trying cream. Prog only.

There are plenty countries where they focus on progesterone only and even into and beyond menopause. It's such a shame you feel you need to change things that are working simply because your doc is not well versed in the regime. 

[LadyCC]

Wow. That's certainly a different approach.

Could you tell me how you got established on progesterone only??? Im assuming it worked. Utrogestan? I'm trying cream. Prog only.

There are plenty countries where they focus on progesterone only and even into and beyond menopause. It's such a shame you feel you need to change things that are working simply because your doc is not well versed in the regime. 

It was the same doctor who is an integrated practitioner who gave the go ahead for progesterone only.  This was after several failed attempts at re-introducing oestrogel at various doseages and tweaking utrogestan doseage too. 

Utrogestan only has worked fine - I have even been able to manage weight loss which had alluded me for months with all the faffing with oestrogen.  Thing is, I believe she is versed in the regime but I am guessing that as a registered GP she cant be seen to treat a patient for a prolonged period outside of the NICE guidelines perhaps.  Anyway, second day off of it and discomfort is easing. 

It looks like Sandrena is more concentrated than Oestrogel and 0.5 sachet is equivalent to 1 pump of Oestrogel.  Even previously I was not tolerating the 1 pump so I am it looks like back to square one.  I think my hormones are still fluctuating a lot and although my oestrogen levels are low, I feel that taking this gel means that my levels get higher than progesterone PDQ and hence oestrogen dominant symptoms.

it isnt food - after years of looking in to this I have tailored and clean diet and I do not have aerosols, etc and other things that would antagonise this around.  Its definately the gel.

As I say, one more try with the additional progesterone cream and half sachet doseage and then thats it.

Do you have any information on the countries that are using progesterone only in to menopause and beyond?

[LadyCC]

Brief update -

The discomfort still remains - I experienced this previously after stopping the oestrogel when last taking it.  It is shocking really though that 3 days after stopping this, I am still having this cramping.

I think listening to my body is the right thing to do.  For whatever reason oestrogen does not work well with me.  Whilst on a lower doseage I didnt have this reaction I am now wondering whether it would happen over a matter of time anyway once the hormone had built up in my system.

I have gone back to my doctor and asked why, at this point in my life do I need to take it.  Particularly as it isnt assisting with night sweats, frequent urination etc as I havent been having major issues with those on the utrogestan alone and certainly not post menopause.  Ill see what she says

[Marchlove]

Thanks for the update Ladycc
Very interesting xx

[CrispyChick]

Lady cc this is so interesting.

I really can't see why you are being forced into estrogen when you don't feel you need it. Is your doc uncomfortable with you taking only prog post meno... And what is the reason. Is your doctor happy with you adding in prog cream to try and balance the estrogen??? That goes against the views of most gp's 

So, I only have anecdotal evidence of people taking only prog in other countries. USA in particular, but I've definitely heard it is mentioned in parts of Europe. There is an estrogen dominance support thread group on fb. Big following - majority just take prog. Some add in a little estrogen post meno.

What dose utrogestan did you start at??? Did you find it easy to tolerate???

[LadyCC]

Hi both

I just heard from my doctor.  She understands my frustrations and has now said that there are people that dont tolerate oestrogen for reasons that are not understood where apparently there is the idea of it triggering histamine and histamine intolerance which is what you said @Marchlove.

She has also said that progesterone is often enough and very beneficial too for menopause symptoms  although this is not current UK guidance, where HRT is defined as estrogen replacement therapy so this is no doubt why she mentioned that I should re-introduce it.

She said that levels will continue to drop but there are other things that can be used for the areas that might be impacted.

So for now just progesterone for me.  And yes, It worked for me and I had no issues on that alone - 1 capsule per night.  I also tried vaginally when I was initially prescribed that and oestrogel to try to up my intake of progesterone and offset the cramping I was getting which unbeknownst to me was exacerbated by the introduction of oestrogen gel.  How about you @CrispyChick?