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[CrispyChick]

Hi gilla

I'm so sorry you're going through this - you have been very supportive to me with my own trials and, being further ahead, have helped me see the bigger picture.

No advice really, other than, step back and see this as a blip. As you pointed out it happened 4 weeks ago - so highly likely to be your own hormones still surging. As last time, it should pass... And hopefully not rear it's head again next time as your body stabalises. Drug yourself for a few nights to get through it 

I'm still an utter mess. Got some really weird physical symptoms going on this week. I'm hoping it's the covid jab, but it's now 8 days since I had it... I'm really hoping it's not this pill. Just trying to plod on.

My stomach has certainly felt a bit 'periody' the last 2 mornings. I know my my moods that my own hormones are still crashing around. Whilst the microgynon has made me ragey and grumpy, some days the pmt feelings have been horrific.

You mention trying estradot - but why did you stop before??? I'm assuming it was not a perfect fit? X

[Gilla999]

Thanks so much Crispy - really appreciate the words xx

I think if people are sensitive to meds like we are then it could well still be the Covid jab influencing but (just like with me) it sounds like there could be multiple things going on rather than just one. All I know is that when I took Microgynon (admittedly a long time ago now) I know I felt that horrible rage at first, but I was on it for about two years I think in total, and I definitely didn't feel that way throughout. I know that doesn't help much in terms of giving you a timescale. How long do you think you'll give it before making a call on whether you want to switch? 4 months?

I tried Estradot before Zoely but it didn't help - not only could i not cope with Utrogestan but from what I have read the Estrogen in HRT is not high enough to suppress your own cycle. HRT is designed to "top up" low or non existent levels of Estrogen for women in a later stage of menopause, rather than override your own cycle entirely, and it's the erratic fluctuations in my own cycle for me in early Peri that have been causing the issue. I wouldn't rule out trying it as an "add on" to Zoely though, if I knew that the Estrogen in Zoely wasn't high enough to suppress my own. I'm going to go ahead and do another Rhythm Plus hormone saliva test, which tests your hormones every other day. It's £235 but at least that will give me some insight into whether my own hormones are still cycling underneath. If they aren't I would expect just to see a flat line of Estrogen from the Zoely.

Isn't it bonkers that in 2021 we are left playing detective over our own health!

[Gilla999]

Right. After another night of being awake since 3am I've had enough and am going to try switching to another contraceptive Pill. I definitely have mild period cramps this morning. I don't think all my problems are down to my hormones - I think it's now become a "thing" where I'm waking and triggering my brain because it's become a habit - but the fact it's happening 4 weeks apart and both times it's accompanied by mild period pains makes me think perhaps something is going on.

I read that if the cycle isn't being fully suppressed that it can be because the Progestin isn't strong enough, but I've struggled to find any resources that tell you the equivalent doses between different types of Progestins in Pills, so I've no idea which to move up to on the scale! Does anyone know where I could find that out? What's also difficult is that, being a newer drug, Zoely doesn't appear in a lot of the comparison charts.

My doctor has now prescribed me antipsychotics in order to sleep - I'm not blimmin psychotic! Not even anxious or depressed, it's purely just the lack of sleep!

[MadameOvary]

Sorry Gilla 
I'm afraid I don't know how to compare the different hormone levels in different pills.
Do you know which pill you're going to ask for?
Anti psychotics don't sound like the right solution for insomnia but I'm not an expert.

[Gilla999]

I've been sitting here reading and reading trying to work out which Pill to go for, it's a total minefield! The trouble is that neither Zoely or Qlaira appear on any of the "pill ladder" type publications so you can't work out where to go from. I think I'm going to try switching to Qlaira. Everything says if your cycle isn't being suppressed you need to increase the Progestin which would mean Microgynon. But I think I'm going to give Qlaira a shot first as having read some new information today it seems to have a better profile than Zoely in some aspects. I am a little nervous about the fluctuations in levels (which is why I chose Zoely over it in the first place). Do you really notice difference on those days Madame O?

Thanks all for listening to me on these rubbish days!

[MadameOvary]

I do notice the difference but it's nothing like the wild fluctuations in mood/physical symptoms before I was on Qlaira.
It's more that I notice how great I feel on the high estrogen days, rather than noticing that I feel bad at any other point in month.

I would still say the only symptom I still have is poor sleep but it's not the wide awake insomnia you've been having. It's more waking up to go to the loo and then going back to sleep. Before Qlaira I had bouts of the wide awake insomnia so I know what hell it is.

No other side effects. No weight gain or anything.

I think Qlaira has slightly more estradiol than Zoely for most of the month so that might suit you.

I hope it works for you.

[RebJT]

Hi Girls

Just a quickie, will catch up on this thread a bit later, just to say I made it to day 26 on Qlaira, so the last estrogen day.  God do I feel really good on the estrogen, but overall I have been doing fine on Qlaira.  Had a wobbly high histamine day on Friday (which in hindsight was milder than it would have been in the run up to my period), feeling emotional and ratty and anxious (there was a genuine trigger for that too) before I realised it was probably my own hormones in combo with the pill.  I've started spotting more heavily today and feel like period is about to arrive.  Weight seems to have steadied.  All in all pretty chuffed to have done a month, and I'd say overall I'm definitely better and certainly no worse on Qlaira so everything crossed that this period is lighter.  My mum keeps telling me that I 'sound like my old self' so that's something.

Gilla, just to say my gynae said there are anticipated supply issues with Qlaira April to November, so if you do get a script make sure your doctor prescribes enough so you can stockpile.  It'd be rubbish to find it suits you, only to discover it's out of stock!  I paid for a private script (£94) and now have a year's worth in a drawer!

Also, to sound like a stuck record, do check your iron (you need your hb above 127, ideally over 130, and ferritin over 100 to be optimal, your GP will disagree!) as when I was iron deficient (well before I was anaemic in the true sense) I was having awful problems with restlessness, sleeplessness, irritability and generally feeling all over the show, fixing my iron truly has made a massive difference to my mood, sleep and just feeling settled on the inside.  In fact it's only in hindsight as I come out of this horrible trough I've been in with hormones, blood loss and anaemia that I realise how far away from the 'old me' I've been.  I've also had hardly any booze this week (not that I was drinking masses before, but was having one or two G&Ts most nights) and have slept so much better and noticed I've not been so hot at night either.  My skin is thanking me for it too.

More anon, need to crack on with work,

Reb
x

[Gilla999]

Hi Reb - that's really great news that you feel good so far on Qlaira! I instead decided to start Yasmin 3 days ago after speaking to a couple of other people about the best option for me. We'll see how it goes... so far have been feeling the same yucky start up side effects I used to in my 20s (just tired, headache, nausea and general bleurgh) but to be honest the last week has been so traumatic from severe lack of sleep that I'm still reeling from it all. The last couple of nights have been a bit better but still feeling very fragile.

I'm still waking every night sweating like crazy - the Zoely initially seemed to dull the night sweats initially but they've come back with a vengeance now - so I spent an extortionate amount of money this morning on a wool bedding set! Eek!

I had my iron checked a couple of weeks ago for a routine blood test and my HB was 143. They didn't test Ferritin I don't think, unless it's called something else on the report.

Really glad to hear you're feeling a bit better with things - it seems like things are tentatively looking up for all the ladies on this thread which is great news xx

[Aveline]

Hi everyone,

Sorry it's been so long since my last check in. Things haven't been great and I've been being a hermit (bad habit of mine). Dealing with so many health issues I'm not sure which one to tackle first and because I'm not working (because of the health issues) I can't actually afford to fix them right now. It's a vicious cycle.

I did end up trying the Zoely again. It was both the same, yet different. 2nd time around I got no cramps, didn't go off my food and didn't have any breakthrough bleeding at all which was weird because the first time around I bled every day for almost 2 months. This time around I got the familiar grinding stomach pains I tend to get with the pill. The first time my skin improved, this time it went downhill fast. I got that anxious, hyped up feeling again with the first pill but I was determined. By week 3 I hadn't slept a wink in the whole 3 weeks and I'd become so obsessive again I couldn't stand to be around myself. My poor husband when I asked sheepishly admitted he thought things had gone downhill but had been too scared to tell me. I felt like a monster 

So at that point I went off it again and have been dealing with bad breakouts, low mood, insomnia and all the fun that goes with my chronic pelvic pain. I think I need a checkup, something doesn't feel right but when you have stomach issues it's hard to make anyone listen.

Reb, Interesting info about the anxiety and iron. I've had low iron for years. I did have an iron infusion a number of years back but had a terrible reaction to it and not keen to do that again. I've been trying to take tablets but even iron bisglycinate messes my stomach up so badly I can't function. I think my ferratin level was 8 last time I was checked which was at least a year ago so probably worse now. I don't know how else to fix it though.

Mental health has been terrible. I don't know if it's situational or hormonal. I know they're still going crazy because of my skin.

So at the moment tossing up whether to try Endep for the pelvic pain, cymbalta for pelvic pain and mental health or attempt another pill. I'm not keen on keeping on messing up my hormones though which I suppose is a little ironic given they're messed up anyway. The skin of a teenager with the wrinkles of a 40 something is kind of hard to deal with though and they really hurt some of them.

Crispy sorry to hear you haven't had any luck improving so far on the microgynan! I was hoping to log in and see that you'd found positive changes.

Gillian I was going to say something to you but I've read so many posts my head is spinning and I can't recall what on earth I was going to say! I should have made notes!

Someone else mentioned horrendous thirst at night!!! I thought this was just me! No matter how much water I drink during the day or before bed I still wake up parched and sore throatish.

Anyway, I really will make more effort to pop in and check up on everyone! Falling down the rabbit hole of obsessive anxiety is awful and no other than my family know about it so I never get to offload about just how miserable it can be. Thank you all for listening!

Hope all of you who are in strict iso are coping with it okay. You have my utmost sympathy. I can't even begin to imagine. We've only had 1 single minor stint of isolation and that was hard, being like that for over a year is just.....wow.

[CrispyChick]

Well, I'm still going with microgynon. That's 8 full weeks (no break). Will keep going.

The last week my anger has turned down a little, I think. But I'm still quite narky, impatient and grumpy with certain people and work 🤣.

I'll keep plodding on.

I don't feel particularly cheery! Also pretty tired all the time. Sleeping like a log for a long time (sorry, I know a lot of you are really struggling with this).

Gilla - how are you finding yasmin??? I think I've said before, the last time I was properly on a coc (4 years ago) I remember nausea avd tiredness which suddenly lifted at the 3 month mark. It can be a long 3 months though.

I felt awful the first few days on micro, but that lifted quickly. Good luck x

[Gilla999]

Aveline, I'm so sorry you've been going such a rough time. Do you have any plans on what you'll do now? It's always hard to know how much of what's going on is mental health vs hormones - this is why I think it's crazy we don't have a way to easily test our hormones in order to be able to correlate.

Crispy, 3 months is a long time to have to deal with side effects isn't it - it must feel like forever. I really really hope it starts to lift for you at that point, which should also hopefully coincide with brighter weather and restrictions being lifted. From December to now has just dragged so much even before you add in the hormone stuff. It'll be the kind of thing where one day you just realise you don't feel as crap.

This is Day 4 of Yasmin and I'm ok! To be honest if I'm sleeping I can cope with anything - the last 2-3 night has improved to 5 hours a night. The night sweats are still crazy though. I've spent a ridiculous amount of (credit card) money on wool bedding that arrives today so looking forward to giving that a try. I would say with Yasmin I just feel a bit "bleurgh" - mild nausea and tiredness/yucky. But so far anyway (touch wood) I don't feel as bad as I remember feeling when trying it in my early 30s. Perhaps you're right with the ease of switching from one Pill to another, or perhaps all things are relative now 

I've no idea how long it might take to shut down my own hormones - I'm hoping not long.... xx

[Floo36]

Hi Gilla999 and Crispchick,

Does the higher dose like yasmin and microgynon suppress the hormones which then stops the fluctuations do you know.  I tried Eloine but it didn’t fully work.  I know the pill stops ovulation but does it stop the hormones fluctuating?

[CrispyChick]

Hi Floo.

Honest answer - I'm not sure. When you read around it certainly reads like they suppress your own. But I've had issues with most of the ones I've tried, even thd two I managed to get to the 3 month mark. But I'm guessing it can take quite a while to fully suppress.

As I understand it, the progesterone stops ovulation. So the estrogen must be there to stop your own going up and down and give you a steady dose.

All I can say is, that at 44, it is what the NHS menopause clinic suggested for me.  Although I'm struggling with them, I am better than on nothing and HRT for me horrifically poisoned me. So this is my only option...

Gilla... I'm glaf you are tolerating OK. Bleugh is a fantastic term. That's exactly how I'm feeling every day now. Bleugh. I'd happily do another 8 weeks of Bleugh if someone promised me I'd feel good after that 🤣🤣🤣. But they never can...

Hopefully you'll sleep better with this one. I'm sleepy all the time 🤣🤣. But I hear you, sleep helps with soooo much.

I also think you're right. I was out all day Fri and sat with the kids for the first time in ages... I had moments of feeling OK. But I think it's just I was out of the house and busy. This situation is not helping. I feel and analyse all day long!!!

Floo. How old are u? X

[CrispyChick]

OK, just looked, so eloine is a low dose pill. So 20mg estrogen (I think). I tried a 20mg one last year. Didn't help.

Microgynon and yasmin are both 30mg. Common dose. But they won't give you it in your 40s if high blood pressure or smoke or overweight...

[Floo36]

Hi I’m 53, I went back on Eloine June last year until a few weeks ago but I was getting symptoms so hrt was added and all went haywire.  I do believe especially when you see my bloods which are just a snapshot in time that my fluctuations are frantic so proving difficult to treat.  I did mention the higher dose pill to the specialist but she wasn’t keen.  I’m just so ill most of the time and then don’t sleep either it brutal.  I think I will be unwell until the fluctuations and my ovaries finally calm down.