Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: MadameOvary on December 09, 2020, 10:43:08 AM
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Hi
I went to my GP a few months ago at the end of my tether because of terrible flooding/heavy periods and PMS/PMDD that just seem to be getting worse and worse. I'm 44. I've always had difficult periods and PMS but it's been so much worse the last few years that I assume it's peri (insomnia, low mood, anxiety, irritability, weepiness, aches, etc but still reasonably regular cycle).
Having read around a bit, I managed to convince the GP to prescribe Qlaira.
I'm now on Day 1 of my period so I should take the Qlaira but I'm in the depths of PMS anxiety/brain fog and suddenly feel terrified of taking it. I haven't taken oral contraceptives for 20 years. I'm now panicking about breast cancer risk, about causing more problems by adding hormones to my already out of control hormones.
I just need someone to give me some words of encouragement.
Feeling very low and confused :'(
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I can so empathise with this post. I can't give you any wise words of experience, but I am also about to start taking Zoely this morning which is very similar to Qlaira - it contains the same Estrogen and a different synthetic Progestin. My symptoms are almost identical to yours (I'm 42).
My understanding is that the cancer risk is extremely low. As for the hormones - the whole point of the pill is that it will (should) suppress your own erratic perimenopausal hormones (I empathise with that) caused by ovulation so you shouldn't be dealing with one on top of the other. The only downside could be side effects from the pill itself, and that's really a case of trial and error - most people say it takes at least 3 months to settle down. I am trying not to pin too much hope on Zoely and if I can't take the side effects I will try something else. I think you'll never know unless you try. Let's keep in touch. let me know how you get on xx
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Thanks so much for your reply Gilla999. You've made me feel a lot better. I've done so much research about different options (Mirena, HRT, different pills) and a couple of weeks ago I was so sure that Qlaira was the path I wanted to go down. I had to really convince the GP to prescribe it (because it's expensive and she wanted to prescribe something cheaper). But because of how my hormones affect my mood, now I'm actually at the point where I can start taking Qlaira, I'm frozen with self doubt and anxiety.
It's good to know we're in the same boat. I think Zoely and Qlaira are pretty much the same thing. Did your doctor suggest it or did you have to make the case for why you wanted it?
You're right, I can always come off it if the side effects are worse than the problems I've got now.
It would be good to hear how you get on. Good luck x
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I'm exactly the same as you - I did a lot of research and then asked for Zoely. I chose it over Qlaira just because the dose is the same every day, though I'm not sure that really makes any difference. I did also speak to a lady over a forum who has great results with it for perimenopause which was reassuring as not many people post positive stories on the internet! I think there are no right or wrong answers as hormones are so specific to each individual, but my thought process was that as it's the natural form of Estrogen it has to be a good starting point. If we can't get on with it, it's likely due to the type of progsterone used, in which case we'd need to try a different one.
I think that's it - it's working out whether the side effects are worse than the original problems. The difficult thing is I am super impatient and everyone/everywhere says it usually takes 3 months for the side effects to die down.
Good luck - I'm sure however it goes it can't be worse than what you're already dealing with (if it's anything like me!) xx
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I've heard good things about Zoely too Gilla999. I also feel like the natural estrogen has to be a better starting point than synthetic.
You've given me the encouragement I needed. You're so right that it can't be worse than the way I feel right now. Well, I guess it could be worse but then I could stop taking it.
I'm also impatient and have read that it takes a good 3 months for things to settle.
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Hi ladies, Qlaira has estradiol valerate/dienogest and Zoely has estradiol hemihydrate/nomegestrol acetate. Good luck to you both!
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That's interesting Uptick, so not the same form of Estradiol in both as I thought? I'm seeing that as a positive - if either of us can't deal with the side effects, it's another option for us to try I suppose! Thanks for your kind words x
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Qliara is a four phase pill; different dose of estradiol and dienogest in 28 tablets. Estradiol valerate is a bit less potent then estradiol hemihydrate; 1 mg estradiol hemihydrate is equivalent to 1,2 mg estradiol valerate.
Alicess
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Thanks Alicess. Interesting that they have different levels of potency. I would expect 1mg of one type of estrogen to be equal to 1mg of another type but it sounds like that's not the case.
I'm still feeling a bit wobbly and uncertain about taking it. I thought my period was starting yesterday but it didn't so I guess it will start today and the GP advised starting the pack on Day 1 of my period.
Gilla999 have you started taking Zoely? Have you noticed any effects - positive or negative - yet?
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Estradiol valerate is a prodrug of estradiol, it means the body has to metabolize it into estradiol.
I hope it will work for you, good luck.
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Thanks Alicess
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Yes MadameOvary, I started taking it yesterday morning. So far the only side effects I've had are a banging headache and feeling a bit yucky in general but this could well be because I had to increase my Mirtazapine dose (a sedating antidepressant) a few days ago after another bout of hormonal insomnia. I usually get a headache for a few days and feel groggy when increase the Mirtazapine, so it's more likely to be that. It's early days though.
There is nothing worse than that "waiting for your period" phase where you know you'll feel so better once it arrives!
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I hope the headache clears up Gilla999
The run up to my period is unbearable. The last day or so of waiting I just feel like a total hormonal mess. Exhausted from insomnia, irritable, low mood, high anxiety, sore breasts. It feels like a storm brewing and then it's a relief when the storm breaks.
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Hang in there ladies. If there's one good thing about menopause is getting rid of periods 💕
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Hi there - it is interesting to see women on here being prescribed these pills because I regularly recommend them but without any experience of taking them, and there aren't many on here who do take them. I think that's a good sign - otherwise if there were many problems more women would report them on the forum perhaps?
Do please let us know how you get on Madame ovary and Gilla - but you will need to ride out any sdie effects I think. From what I recall with someone on the forum in the past - it can take several cycles before your own cycle is suppressed, and also if you are taking a strong drug like Mirtzapine, it will be important as you say not to be tempted to attribute side effects to the pill and ride them out.
Do make a note of how you are feeling and what you are taking ie regular diary - and especially with Qlaira as it is tri-phasic as Alicess meniotned ( ie 3 different doses of oestrogen ) to mimic what happens in the menstural cycle.
The good news with Qlaira is that I recall (I think!) there are only two days without oestrogen so you prevent that long dip when oestrogen is low.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity!
Day 3 of taking it today and I feel fine... headache has gone. Any lingering yucky feelings are minimal really.
The real test will be if it stops my cyclical symptoms.... forgive me, but if it stops you from ovulating, which it does within 7 days if taken at the start of the cycle, is that not the same thing as suppressing your own cycle hormones? Perhaps not ???
Yes I found it interesting that there wasn't much info too... I read all the posts there are! Am hoping that is a good sign xx
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Thanks Hurdity. I will definitely keep a symptom diary and post any updates here. I am still a bit worried that I could make things worse by adding more hormones into the mix but I'm going to give it a try for 3 months and see what happens.
It's difficult because when I'm feeling ok, I think why would I want to start taking medication and possibly increasing my risk of stroke, breast cancer etc. But then when I'm in the depths of PMS or a terrible, heavy period, I feel like I'd happily take any risks if there was a chance of improving things.
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Ladies. Can I follow along???
Having a very hard time finding something to suit. I'm 44. Tried numerous pills... None of them suited. I'm looking at zoely.
How are you getting on with it?
I'm a little confused though. It has 1.5mg estradiol and is a combined pill that should shut down your system? But fenoston 2/10 HRT has higher dose of estradiol but this tops up rather than shuts down the system. I'm confused by that.... I'm currenty taking 1/10 femoston but finding even 1mg estradiol too strong... Hoping with prog I'll find it better...
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Hi CrispyChick, I'm not an 'HRT expert', all I do is read the available info and try to understand it, so what I'm thinking is that Zoely's action relies on the 2.5mg nomegestrol acetate by inhibiting ovulation and changing cervical secretion, according to the SmPC for the drug 'The contraceptive effect of Zoely is based on the interaction of various factors, the most important of which are seen as the inhibition of ovulation and the changes in the cervical secretion' Don't ask me what 'various factors' means...
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Thanks uptick. That's what I was thinking. In which case I'll probably stay away from it. I just want to override the whole thing... Forever!!!!
In saying that, I've not got on with any of the conventional pills...
But I'm feeling dire on my small solo dose of estradiol.
Will follow along to see how the ladies get on. X
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Dydrogesterone, the progestin in Femoston, doesn't inhibit ovulation . According to wiki it's an atypical progestin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dydrogesterone
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Hi all - well the good news is that I have literally no side effects at all, which blows my mind because (like you Crispy) I tried every Pill under the sun in my 20s and early 30s and couldn't get on with any of them - most of them made me feel incredibly angry and rubbish. If I had discovered this contraceptive a lot earlier I could have saved myself a lot of heartache. But that's another story.
Crispy, I had also noticed the dosage of Estrogen in Zoely and got confused by how it is high enough to prevent ovulation yet seems on the face of it to be a low dose. The only thing I could think of was that it's a different 'type' of Estradiol than in HRT?
I did quite a bit of research before starting it and it definitely primarily prevents pregnancy by inhibiting ovulation though. I made sure of this because like you, I just want to override the whole thing forever as it's the fluctuations that cause me the massive problems. So I'm hoping (praying) that by inhibiting ovulation it will suppress my own natural hormones, as for me it's always straight after ovulation that the problems start. The big test will be in three weeks' time I guess. I'm simultaneously trying not to expect too much but also not cause all the problems with unnecessary anticipation.
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That's amazing gilla. So pleased for you. It gives me hope. Well, possibly not too much hope as I notice its not approved to prescribe by NHS Scotland. :o a bit like utrogestan. Also qlaira too. 😬
Please keep us updated....after my last 2 weeks experience of estradiol in femoston 1/10, I'm a little scared of estradiol. However, I'll give this a few days with the prog and see if I balance out. Maybe I need both ovulation prevention and estrogen to be balanced with prog. I live in hope.
Please keep us updated 😁
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Dydrogesterone, the progestin in Femoston, doesn't inhibit ovulation . According to wiki it's an atypical progestin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dydrogesterone
Hi Alicess, I'm not sure you're referring to my post, I was talking about Zoely, not Femoston.
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Hi Upstick, ...no, I wanted to explaine to Crispychick why Femoston isn't suitable for birth control. Sorry, I'm a bit hasty these days.
Hi Crispychick, I had these symptoms on a low dose BCP and more severe on HRT. With a higher dose ethinylestradiol and same dose progestin they went away. I don't think ethinylestradiol in BCP is as potent as it should be in everyone and some may need a higher dose. There are so many process that have an influence on hormones that it's almost impossible to figure out. I personally don''t think your symptoms are realated to high estrogen but
I think you have to go by what your instinct is telling you. The only thing I would advise with birth control that you give it at least 3 months and don't take a break during that time.
Take care 🌷
Alicess
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Thanks. I know femoston isn't suitable for birth control. My question is around the estradiol. 1mg in femodton 1/10, 2mg in fenoston /10....both hrt, but only 1.5mg in zoley birth control - so how does zoley shut off the system and be good for peri???
Is it possibly the progesterone in zoley that is doing that work? Like a mini pill? My understanding was it was the high dose of estrogen in the synthetic coc that shut off your own system.
I'm asking because I think I need to turn my own hormones off. Im on a roller coaster with low dose estradiol in femoston 1/10.
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Don't quote me, but my take is that combined oral contraceptives have a high progestogen content which works with the estrogen component to shut down ovary function. Some of the oestrogen is taken up in counteracting the effect of the progestogen.
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Hi Upstick, ...no, I wanted to explaine to Crispychick why Femoston isn't suitable for birth control. Sorry, I'm a bit hasty these days.🌷
:)
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Thanks. I know femoston isn't suitable for birth control. My question is around the estradiol. 1mg in femodton 1/10, 2mg in fenoston /10....both hrt, but only 1.5mg in zoley birth control - so how does zoley shut off the system and be good for peri???
Is it possibly the progesterone in zoley that is doing that work? Like a mini pill? My understanding was it was the high dose of estrogen in the synthetic coc that shut off your own system.
I'm asking because I think I need to turn my own hormones off. Im on a roller coaster with low dose estradiol in femoston 1/10.
yes that's it as I understand it. The high progestogen dose in these tablets work somewhat like the mini pill. In pills like Qlaira and Zoely (the latter especially) the oestrogen component is not high enough to suppress ovulation whereas with the BCP type that use synthetic oestrogen in high dose - it is. Therefore for Zoely and Qlaira is has to be the progestogen - because they are supposed to suppress ovulation as well as intefering with conception through alteration of cervical mucus etc. This is from memory so someone can put me right on the detail if I've got this wrong!
As dahliagirl says. I'm not sure about the oestrogen coounteracting the effect of the progestogen? Not sure what you mean by that? The oestrogen is just to replace what might not be produced due to suppression of ovarian function I thought?
Hurdity x
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Hi
Just checking in to say I'm on Day 2 of Qlaira now. So that's 2 tablets of 3 mg estradiol valerate.
Nothing much to report really but that's to be expected. I imagine it will take a while to notice any effects (good or bad). I'm having a very heavy, painful period - the pain woke me up last night and kept me awake for hours - but that's not unusual for me.
Tomorrow I'll move onto the pills that contain 2mg estradiol valerate plus 2 mg dienogest. We'll see if the progestin makes a difference to how I feel.
:)
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Yes Hurdity you are right - I did a lot of research prior to starting Zoely and its primary method of preventing ovulation is by shutting down ovulation (it also has a lesser secondary effect on cervical mucus as you mention).
The method in which it shuts down ovulation (through Estrogen or Progesterone) I'm not sure - I didn't think for my set of circumstances it mattered - because my way of thinking is that if my ovulation is shut down that it should stop the consequential rollercoaster of hormones I experience specifically in the luteal phase of my cycle (which is why at times like these I can sound like a perfectly normal human being, and in the "other" two weeks I am a basket case unable to sleep/work/function)
Madame Ovary, do let us know how you get on over the next few days!
I am trying to be reasonable and know it can take 3 months and not expect a miracle in the first month. Whilst also desperately hoping for a miracle in the first month ::) ::) ::)
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All still going well. I'm on day 4 and now on the 2mg Estradiol 2mg Dionogest. I haven't noticed any difference to be honest. My period has been really heavy and painful (but it always is) but it seems to be ending sooner than usual. My periods usually last 7 days but it's easing off now after just 4 days.
I think the real test will be post ovulation/the weeks before my next period. That's when I experience the worst PMS/peri symptoms so it will be interesting to see if my symptoms are better, worse, or the same.
How are you getting on Gilla999?
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Hi MadameOvary - so glad to hear you've been ok so far - I think that's a really positive sign.
Unfortunately I've had a rough couple of days. It's not the Pill - I'm still getting no side effects from that, I've breezed through it. It's just my debilitating "waking up at midnight and not being able to get back to sleep" problem. It's completely the wrong time of the month for it to happen - it's only ever happened in the second half my my cycle before. So now I have no idea if (a) it's not my hormones (b) it's my body getting used to the hormones in the pill or (c)... I've no idea. Feeling a bit lost with it all but just ploughing ahead.
One thing is for certain, I don't think being on the Pill will be a bad thing for me. Even if what I'm experiencing with this sleep issue is not only due to my hormones, I think something that balances those out can only help.
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Can I ask, do these pills over ride your cycle and provide a constant dose of hormones?
I get the impression one does and one doesn’t. And is the benefit that the oestrogen is natural oestrogen in them?
Thankyou :)
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Hiya - Zoely is a mono phasic pill, so the same hormone dose every day. Qlaira has different amounts (slightly) throughout the cycle in order to mimic more of your natural cycle.
Both of them suppress ovulation which in my mind should override my cycle, as it's the hormones in the latter half of the month following ovulation that I struggle so badly with. I know that they (or any Pill that suppresses ovulation) is the first line treatment for PMDD, PMS, hormonal imbalances etc. so I am hoping that the suppression of ovulation will override my natural cycle - but I am by no means an expert in any of this and this is purely what I've pieced together myself from reading a load of medical papers. I'm sure other people know better than me!
Yes, the Estrogen in it is Estriadol instead of the synthetic estrogen in other Pills. The progesterone in both of them is still synthetic though.
One thing to add to my comments below - I realised this afternoon that I do have one side effect from Zoely - my boobs are definitely bigger and more swollen/tender than they normally would be at this point in my cycle (pre ovulation). Nowhere near as bad as when I had terrible Estrogen dominance, just noticeable when I take my bra off. So perhaps the dip I've experienced over the last couple of days is due to my hormones getting used to Zoely after all. I know I need to give it 2-3 months before I can assess if it's helped at all.
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Thanks for your reply. I’m wondering about a pill to over ride my cycle so I’m interested to hear how you get on with Zoely so keep posting your updates and good luck!
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Will do and thanks ;D - I think I won't be able to make a real call until 3 cycles which would be early March... but I'll definitely let you know how it goes xx
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Gilla999 sore breasts (and going up a whole cup size) are one of my PMS symptoms. Basically it's the first sign for me that I'm premenstrual - about 2 weeks before my period starts. I haven't noticed that general soreness and increased size on Qlaira but I have had a few random shooting pains. Nothing serious. I'm just super aware of everything at the moment because I'm looking out for side effects. It's only day 5 though. I'm hoping the breast tenderness will get better, not worse, with the pill.
I wonder if it's happening with Zoely because the dose of estrogen is stable throughout the month? I do remember being very busty back in my 20s when I was last on the pill!
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Same here, MadameOvary. I have big boobs anyway (have always hated them) and when I had sky high estrogen dominance as my first symptom of perimenopause for about a year or so, they became very sore and swollen during the last two weeks of my cycle. This feels just like that (it's very noticeable now - certainly not looking forward to running around at tennis!). And yes same here - when I was last on the Pill in my early 20s it increased my chest size so I'm not surprised.
Everything I've read says that breast pain from the Pill should be a temporary side effect though and should subside once your body is used to the hormones (eg 3 months) so I've just got to ride it out.
I know what you mean about being super aware xxx
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Found an interesting article I thought I'd share:
https://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/Military_OBGYN/Textbook/Contraception/bcp_breast_tenderness.htm
Essentially it says breast pain when you start the Pill is normal and is because the hormones have "not yet suppressed ovarian function" so you are making your own Estrogen PLUS the Estrogen in the pill. It goes onto to say that it's uncommon for this still to be the case after months 2-3 which suggests it can take more than one cycle for the Pill to fully suppress your own hormones. I'm reading that this "full suppression" must be different to "suppressing ovulation" because it's known that after 7 days of taking the pill, ovulation doesn't happen. I guess you can still produce your own hormones without ovulating.
So bottom line: it will take a couple of months for our hormones to properly be suppressed. Which makes me feel slightly better at having experienced the blip I did this week and also reminding me to be patient :)
xx
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Any update ladies? :)
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It all seems OK CrispyChick. Thanks for asking. I don't have any obvious side effects. I've been a bit irritable and snappy (like I would usually be in the run up to my period) but I'm not convinced that's a side effect.
I've been waking up early still but I'm generally sleeping through the night.
I'm actually not feeling great today. Really achy all over. I don't think it's related to the pill though. I actually worry it could be Covid :'( I've had a test and waiting for results.
So basically I'm happy with Qlaira so far. The real test will be in a week or so when I would usually expect to turn into a crazy, miserable PMS monster. Fingers crossed I see some improvement.
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MadameOvary that's good news, although sorry to hear you've been feeling poorly - hope the rest result is negative!
Crispy, I'm fine. The only side effect I have is these gigantic swollen painful melons I'm lugging around everywhere with me, and I think perhaps a little water retention weight too (another classic estrogen dominance side effect for me). But really in the grand scheme of things it's been fine. As MadameOvary says it will be interesting to see what happens throughout the rest of my "cycle". I'm hoping that the painful boobs will reduce over the coming 2 months - the literature says they should, as my own hormones get "switched off".
I'm not planning to take the 4 day break and will just go straight through with the next pack. Will keep you updated and hope you're doing ok xx
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I just wanted to chime in to say that I’m really enjoying this thread. I’m working on something similar myself, for similar reasons: 44 and HAVE to get off this roller coaster. I’ve got a Mirena and I’m using 4 Estrogel pumps a day with the aim to suppress my own hormones. I’m at day 9 of my ghost cycle (trackable hormonal fluctuations with no bleed). These posts are relatable, as I’m having boob symptoms. I’m loving the mantra to give it 2-3 months to settle. I’m also impatient so it’s great to see others in the same boat. Keeping me on track! It’s day 9 for me and today my mood is quite flat, which is how I would feel around day 24, so perhaps something is different this time around.
Thanks for everyone for your contributions here.
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Yes, keep updating ladies. I'm following closely. Shannon plusses, I'm 44 too.
After stopping the HRT after 15 days this month... It was hell. I'm now in severe pmt territory... Every day is horrific!!!
I'm going to try the contraceptive patch. Just waiting for period and to pick up prescription... I just want someone to remove all hormones from my body ::) it's torture.
Hope you all get a decent Christmas. Xx
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Thanks for the lovely feedback Shannon!
I had initially thought that "preventing ovulation" (which the Pill does within 7 days) was the same thing as "switching off my own hormones", but it seems from some of the things I've read that it's not the case. Which is why they say things like swollen, painful boobs should ease within 2-3 months - because at the moment my body is still producing its own Estrogen, topped up by the Pill, which is then causing Estrogen dominance. From the things I've read it indicates that it takes a bit of time for your body to realise it doesn't need to produce its own hormones anymore. And then symptoms like the swollen, painful boobs should ease. And it goes as far as saying if it doesn't, then it might not be the right Pill for you.
I'm such an impatient person by nature and want things fixed straight away, but I don't think I can make a call on this one until 3 months in. And to be honest, if it in any way helps my original debilitating cyclical symptoms of insomnia and night sweats in the last 2 weeks of my cycle, then I would absolutely cope with the boob thing anyway! (Boob reduction here I come ::) )
Keep me posted on how you get on xx
PS. Side note: I find it interesting how many women in their early/mid 40s here are (like me) desperately talking about wanting to "switch off" or "override" their cycle. The fluctuations really seem to be causing a lot of people difficulties
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Covid test came back negative which is a big relief. I have no idea what my achy muscle symptoms were about. It's possible it was a side effect of the pill.
Still feeling fine. I have a tiny amount of breakthrough bleeding but really nothing significant.
I've been a bit weepy (which is one of my many PMS symptoms) but there's quite a lot to feel weepy about at the moment! It's been such a tough year and this is such a strange Christmas. All the Christmas films are setting me off!
I'm still waking up super early (5.30/6am) which is annoying because I'm off work and would love a lie in. But I'm not waking in the night.
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Gilla999 how much estrogen is in Zoely?
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Sounds good all round so far ladies... No nausea or side affects??!
Shannon, i'm intrigued you already have the mirena and are now having to ramp up the estradiol to override your system... In yet gp's keep pushing the mirena at us peri women. Makes little sense.
I'm picking my patch up tomorrow. Scared stiff. 😬
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No nausea at all CrispyChick. Good luck with your patch.
The mirena really works for some women and is terrible for others. I think depending on how sensitive to progesterone you are. I was quite tempted by it but was scared by prospect of it making things worse and not being able to get it removed easily. At least with a pill I can stop taking it if it makes things worse.
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A little background about my Mirena. In my mid-late 30s, I was having bleeding after sex for which they couldn’t find a cause. I got a Mirena and that solved the issue (after spotting constantly for about 6 weeks). I had no periods until the 4th year and it worked well in that regard, although I did still have a hormonal cycle/PMDD that lead me to use Sertraline (which helped a lot). Got the Mirena removed after the 4th year because my own cycle was breaking through and causing severe symptoms which I NOW know was peri menopause (but they said I was too young). I went on the pill back-to-back (to stop the roller coaster) and life was fine for a year or two (but no sex drive). Urged my husband to get a vasectomy and I went off the pill. My period never returned and after 6 months, tested as post-menopausal level FSH (age 42). I started Estrogel and Prometrium (Canadian equivalent of Utrogestan). It was okay but I kept increasing the Estrogel and doctors here are more conservative with how much they allow. The ob-gyn felt better about the higher dosage of Estrogel if it was paired with the Mirena, and I was fine with that as it had worked for me fine before (again, in hindsight, I was peri menopausal at the time, but when you don’t have a bleed it’s hard to know that!). I haven’t cleared the attempt to suppress ovulation with the ob-gyn but she knows I’m treating to my symptoms and we have a follow up scheduled in a few months. I would love to come to her and tell her that I’ve got it finally figured out.
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Thanks for the update Shannon. I really hope this method works for you. Slightly confused why you're trying to suppress ovulation when you tested post menopausal... But I'm easily confused :o
Keep updating ladies. I'll happily post how I get on with the patch. Although I'm feeling dreadful, I am glad I tried the HRT as it shows I'm not ready for increased estradiol yet... Prob because my own hormones are on a roller coaster.
Fingers crossed for a good 2021...hormonally anyway!!!
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Totally valid question! I’ve had 3 high post-menopausal level FSH tests but not officially technically menopausal in the textbook no period for a full year sense because I’ve been on HRT and I’m not willing to to go a full year without precious hormones just to prove that. 6 months was long enough and it was a hell of a ride. Being on HRT has given me some bleeds here and there and I know my own hormones are at play in some regard because of just how variable my day-to-day experience has been. Am I ovulating here and there? Is my body trying damn hard to, but failing? Is the HRT giving my body false hope that fertility isn’t a done deal? How much no one can say. Since there’s no badge bestowed for being officially post menopausal, I don’t mind if I’m seen as peri menopausal, as it’s semantics really.
I’m just trying to muddle through with as little collateral damage as possible.
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MadameOvary the Estradiol in Zoely is 1.5mg every day.
I do have some confusion with that dose and how it's enough to suppress ovulation. But I have a feeling it's not as straightforward as it sounds because the symptoms I have of swollen painful boobs are at the same level/intensity as when I was taking 25mg Estradot or when I had naturally sky high estrogen dominance a couple of years ago.
Enjoy your Christmas ladies, keep us posted with how things go! Xx
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Thought I'd give a quick update - it's now day 19 of the pill and day 21 of my natural cycle (out of 29). In the last couple of days I think my estrogen levels are starting to drop as although my boobs are still gigantic they're not quite as sore as before. I've also had a little cramping (but doesn't last long) and the return of the night sweats and the related insomnia where I wake up sweating and can't get back to sleep (probably because of the rise in my core body temp). I'm assuming this is happening because my body is getting used to the hormone levels and not because of hormonal changes associated with my natural cycle, though it is the time of the month where they would happen so who knows. I think what it shows, for me anyway, is that my night sweats and insomnia are a result of estrogen changes. It doesn't necessarily mean I have low estrogen, but even when it's shifting from very high to high, I get the same side effects as someone with low estrogen would. I'm not sure why in my early 40s I have suddenly become SO sensitive to fluctuations in my estogren but there you are!
MadameOvary, hope you're doing ok!
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Thanks for the update Gilla999. I'm now 2 weeks away from when I would expect to start my period. On day 15 of Qlaira.
My sleep hasn't been great to be honest but it's not temperature related. I just wake up several times around 4am then wake up properly at 6am and can't get back to sleep. Very annoying because I'm off work and could really do with a lie in!
My breasts have been a bit fuller than usual since starting the pill too. Slightly tender but not as bad as they usually are with pms.
I've noticed I've been very tearful and irritable the last few days - usual PMS symptoms for me - but I can't work out if it's the pill or just normal stresses and emotions of Christmas in a pandemic!
The only other side effect I've noticed is my hair seems to need washing more often.
I hope you all had a good Christmas. Fingers crossed we all manage to get our crazy hormones under control in 2021!
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Ladies. How are you feeling?
I'm asking this here, as we're all at similar stage. So, I've got the patch to try, but I was waiting on a period. Clearly my 15 says on hrt has totally messed that up.
So, I think I had mild ovulation pain on sun. Before that I was extremely fatigued and teary. Now I'm still fatigued and also mood dipping up and down. Any idea what this would mean at time of ovulation??? Low estrogen? 🤷♀️. But still enough to trigger ovulation.
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Hey Crispy. It's possible that it's not related to ovulation and your hormones are just a bit skewed because of the HRT - I also had the same thing when I tried it for a few days only, my period was about 7 days late i think (which never happens). What I've come to realise through my current experience with Zoely is that for whatever reason, in my early 40s I have become super sensitive to Estrogen changes, and it sounds like a similar thing with you too maybe.
In the last 3 days I've had the return of my crazy bad night sweats which I think causes my insomnia (both in waking up and then unable to get back to sleep, as my core body temperature has risen). It's definitely not been as severe, or if it has I've so far been able to cope so much better with it the next day (which could also be due to me increasing my SSRI). The return of the night sweats/sleep issue has also been accompanied by my boobs dropping from the super swollen and painful state they were in from about day 5 to to day 18 of taking Zoely (which is my classic very high estrogen indicator), down to still being a larger cup size but not swollen or painful at all anymore. These two things happening in tandem has showed me that the night sweats and insomnia must be related to when my estrogen levels drop. And as I mentioned before my Estrogen level doesn't even have to be clinically low to cause me problems... a drop of any kind causes it, even when going from "super high" to "high".
I've also had a lot of breakthrough bleeding over the last 4-5 days - almost like my normal period - but I can deal with that.
Your symptoms are different from mine but it would make sense to me that it's down to changes in your hormone levels caused by the stopping of HRT and my own experience is that estrogen is the pest!! But I'm obviously just guessing :)
As all the literature I've poured over says it takes 3 months for full suppression of your own natural hormones on birth control pill I'm hoping that when that happens it will stop my fluctuations which cause these symptoms for me.
Side note: still annoyed that the hormone specialist told me (1) my symptoms "can't" be related to my hormones when they so clearly are, (2) hormones fluctuate all the time in your natural cycle so this wouldn't cause you problems and (2) she gave me incorrect info about my hormone levels - she got the prog and estrogen results the wrong way around :o
Hope you start to feel better soon Crispy - I know it's hard if you're experiencing rubbish side effects but I'd really recommend trying to stick with a contraception pill for a full 3 months once you start it if you can, as I think only then can we judge if it's working or not xxxx
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Hi
Sorry you're both having a tough time Gilla and Crispy.
I had a terrible night last night. I woke up at 4am and didn't go back to sleep. I'm shattered today. No night swears. If anything I was freezing cold. I just couldn't sleep. I don't know if it's hormone related (that would be normal insomnia for me at this time of my cycle) or if it's general stress etc.
Gilla999 I'm getting some breakthrough bleeding too but it's very slight - not enough to need a pad.
On the plus side, I think my skin is looking slightly better than before :)
I'm definitely sticking with it. I'm hoping that the insomnia is just because it takes time for the pill to fully suppress my natural cycle.
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Oops, just noticed I typed swears instead of sweats ;D
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How are you all doing? I'm approaching the end of my first packet of qlaira and I have to say I'm noticing my pms symptoms. I'm feeling really irritable, tetchy and anxious and my sleep has been terrible for pretty much the whole time I've been taking the pill.
But I would say the symptoms are much less severe than usual. I'm definitely not as irritable and anxious as usual. And I know I need to give it a few cycles to see how things go.
I'm interested to find out what my period/withdrawal bleed is like on the pill. My periods are usually so heavy and painful so I'm really hoping that the pill will at least mean lighter periods even if it doesn't completely cure the pms and insomnia.
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Hiya - I would say my experience matches yours. I'm still experiencing my symptoms (night sweats and waking in the night from them / disrupted sleep) but they're definitely not as severe. I would also say that in the last handful of days they've got less severe again (I'm a few days ahead of you!). Since I started taking the pill I've so far only one had night where the night sweats have woken me and I've been unable to get back to sleep (which was the entire problem before) and that day was right at the start of taking it. So in general a big improvement (I have also increased my SSRI on the guidance of my Psych so I'm sure that has helped mentally too, although what has been going on for me is 2000% not a mental problem, it was cyclical hormones!).
Are you going to actually have your break for your "period"? I've gone straight through, I don't plan on taking any breaks - definitely not wanting that drop in hormones, from what I've been told there's no health benefit to it.
Keep hope - everything I've read says it can take 2-3 cycles for your own hormones to be suppressed so this is totally to be expected :-* And if for any reason you're still not feeling great on Qlaira after 3 months you can try switching to Zoely where the hormone dose is constant. You have options xxx
PS. I'm still having breakthrough bleeding which is a little annoying - like a constant period - but it's nothing in the grand scheme of things and I know it will eventually go away.
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Hi Gilla
It does sound like we're having very similar experiences. But my breakthrough bleeding was super light - nothing like my periods - and it's stopped now.
It hadn't occurred to me to skip the break. I didn't talk to my GP about it. I was just going to follow the pack. Qlaira only has a 2 day break so I guess I'll give it a go. If it's terrible I'll think about skipping the break next month.
Xx
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Well done ladies. This sounds really positive for you both. So pleased.
I'm still following. I'm still waiting on my period after that dreadful 15 day hrt trial. Interestingly I'm feeling better than I have in a long time... Bizarre... I guess there's no rush. I have the patch, but I'll only go there if I need to.
I am having no hot flushes or anything like that. So I'm thinking mine is absolute imbalance rather than true meno approaching, but who knows.
Keep plodding on... Keep updating 😁
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I’m nearly 42 and since age 38 I’ve had lots of symptoms. They have got worse over time, I’ve got two young children and just find my symptoms overwhelming. How conclusive are blood tests? For the past two years I’ve had blood tests in Dec 2020 which show thyroid is fine and gynaecologist has just sent a letter saying hormone levels are fine. To list a few of my symptoms : Bad crippling cramps, Itching or burning skin, very sore breast, Hot flushes, Mood is low tearful or irritable ( really bad before period just want to be alone), bad pms, Insomnia ( most of the time waking in night or wide awake a week before period), junk cravings, Weight gain nausea, reflux, waking at night to go to the bathroom and achy joints. I just don’t feel like me. I tried yasmin earlier last year For about 6 months... but it didn’t help
He’s suggested I go on qlaira to manage period or ovulation pain. I’ve just started it and noticed this thread. I really appreciate that you all are sharing your journey... so grateful.
thanks so much x
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Angelasurrey, be good to hear how you get on too.
I'm nervous about trying the contraceptive patch... Especially now we'll be home schooling again. It's such a shame this happens to us when trying our best to parent. Xx
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I’ll check in too, what the heck. Day 21 of 4 pumps estrogel + Mirena in attempt to suppress my own hormones. Still irritable here and there but I’ve had a few good days. A great one even. But weight is piling on and it’s starting to make me nervous. It’s coming on so quickly some of it has to be fluid, but as I’m not taking a break from hormones, I’m not sure at what point my body will see fit to to release that extra? I wear a Fitbit and my resting heart rate has shot up the in last two days. Usually when things feel stable, my heart rate is lower or steady, and when it increases often my weight goes up as well. Not feeling confident that I want to keep this up, but I’m telling myself that I’m going to try for two “cycles”.
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I’m more than happy to share.
My experience so far has been a few side effects. Different ones each day. A few days of nausea. A bit like morning sickness. I don’t know if this is because of starting taking the pill in the evening rather than morning.
Really itchy skin for a few days and itchy eyes. Then with the insomnia just felt very cold at night.
These symptoms have gone now. Still got PMS symptoms and started period recently. On the positivr side of things it’s slightly less painful and for a day I felt like things had lifted a bit. I did take the 2 day break. During this period I’ve had headaches. Never had these before.
I struggled with home schooling / lockdown and all the peri symptoms so hope that we all get some relief soon .. so we feel better. Hugs 🤗 x
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Forgot to mention the past 4 days I have this pulse in my right bum cheek at night. A bit like a twitch.. very weird! Sorry if tmi x
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How long have you been on the Qlaira Angelasurrey? Nice to hear from someone else on it too. I'm just coming to the end of my first pack.
I don't know what to expect at all with the 2 day break. Does it mean I just have a period for 2 days? Did you find your period was any lighter/shorter?
My insomnia has been awful too and, like you, I've been freezing cold in the night. But it is January and it is freezing cold at night so I'm not sure that's a side effect of the pill.
I've been really irritable as well as tired. But probably less so than usual.
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Hello! So nice to hear from you. From 7th Dec.. I started Qlaira.
The bleeding was shorter in my case so 5 days rather than 7 days and slightly less heavy and less crampy.
I’m still experiencing sore breasts ( my little preschooler hugged me and it was painful) and was wide awake yesterday from 1am.
You are right .. the cold weather isn’t helping. I use wheat bags and heat pads at night during my period but the run up to it .. is just so difficult . I did have an electric blanket in Sept last year but couldn’t get the temp right.. so sometimes it brought on hot flashes.
My husband said I was nagging a bit. ::)
How is everyone else doing? Hope you are all ok.
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5 days sounds good Angelasurrey! I'd happily take that. Sorry for the very stupid question but when should I expect it to start? When I'm on the 2 red pills at the end of the pack? Or the white non-active pills? Or after I've finished the whole pack :-\
I hear you on the sore breasts but that's a usual pms problem for me so I'm kind of used to it. On qlaira it was more the first couple of weeks. It's not so bad now. I think Gilla999 has been having trouble with this on Zoely.
Do keep us posted.
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I really hope this works for you ladies. I've got horrific pmt. Had it for 3 days solid... Its awful. My poor children 😬.
But on the plus side, my physical symptoms seem a bit better. No migraines, no sore scalp, no fatigue, no dizziness or nausea.... On the 2 weeks of HRT my dizziness etc went sky high.
That's why this is torturous. If I start the patch I'm pretty sure I'll get bad nausea avd dizziness. .. But this pmt is off the scale. I just can't lift out of it.
Usually after my period I end up with other symptoms like dizziness etc... But I am tempted to try another month avd see... Just wish my soddin period would arrive... Lift my mood!!!!
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MadameOvary. I think the bleeding starts just as you get towards finishing the pack. Mine started as I was about to start the Last 2 white pills. I just couldnt wait for it and was so impatient. I hope it is ok for you. I felt quite drained the first two days.
crispyChick : it is so hard. I hope it passes soon for you. Did the Dr mention how long to try it for? I think the trial and error process is the hardest.
I tried a video for cramps by yoga with Adriene online. It’s free on you tube. More than anything I think it helped to just make me slow down.. as I’m constantly running around like a headless chicken . My kids were there ..so they realised ..I’m not feeling great.
Peri is hard enough on its own.. let alone a global pandemic and being a parent to young kids.
Wishing you all healing and hugs x ❤️🤗
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Hi
Just a little update. I've just started 2nd pack of Qlaira.
Overall I would say I still had some of my usual problems (insomnia, irritability, low mood, tearfulness, sore breasts) but they were generally much less severe than normal.
One thing that's really different is my period. Instead of 8 days of heavy flooding, cramping, ibuprofen, etc, I've had 3 days of light flow. I'm over the moon! I had a tiny bit of cramping but I didn't need to take painkillers. I honestly could cry with relief. It's made me realise how terrible my periods have been and what life could be like with lighter periods.
I'm hoping that over the next month or two some of the other symptoms might improve too. Although I think I remember a poster on an old thread on here saying that month 2 of qlaira was the worst and it got better after that...
I hope you're all doing OK
X
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Ahh that's such good news MadameOvary! Interesting about month 2 being harder - I can't understand why that would be medically - but we shall see! I'm doing really well - aside from a few nights at the very beginning I've had none of my crippling night sweats and therefore no middle-of-the-night insomnia. Like you it has been such a relief to just have a normal life for the last few weeks! My breakthrough bleeding stopped about a week or so ago, the boobs aren't sore anymore (still a cup size larger tho) and generally I'm feeling really good. I went straight through on my pack so no period - not even sure what day I'm on anymore! Fingers crossed it continues to improve for both of us xx
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MadameOvary and Gilla999 I’m pleased things are improving and moving in a positive direction. It’s nice we are able to share our experiences and support one another. Have a great week :) x
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Glad things are going well for you too Gilla999.
After I posted yesterday, I had a massive meltdown which was like my worst pms/irritability/unable to cope. To be fair, the washing machine broke in the middle of me making dinner so I was trying to cook and fix the machine all while my husband was relaxing with a beer watching football... So maybe it's not a hormonal thing, maybe I had good reason to lose my rag!
Then I had a terrible night of insomnia. Shattered today. I wondered if it was my own hormones playing up/not quite suppressed by the pill yet?
I'm still over the moon about the light, easy painless period though!
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It's difficult to know isn't it - the world itself is such a strange, rubbish place at the moment. There is a lot of stress on everyone in different ways! Keep going and see how you get through this second month xx
Thanks for the lovely words Angela! Hope you have a great week too. I can't wait for all this covid business to be done and dusted and we can get back to normal living!
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So true Gilla. The world is such a weird and scary place right now. It's hard to know what's hormonal and what's just a normal reaction to life's stresses and strains.
Keep safe x
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Ladies. That's excellent news. Keep updating. I'm still following.
I've had the worst week of pmt. Now subsided. But I'm left fatigued low and flat and just generally feeling off. So, against my better judgement because my kids are home schooling, I've stuck the contraceotive patch on.... Fingers crossed. I've stuck it on my bum ::)
Day 1...
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Crispychick, that sounds incredibly tough. Hormones have alot to answer for. :o I hope the patch gives you some relief and you feel more like yourself. The cold and dark is definitely making this lockdown even harder. I think I’m just fed up with both peri and the pandemic.
The past two nights I have a gurgling stomach. It’s bizarre definitely digestive as I wake up with reflux and am up for a few hours. Have had a skin breakout but that doesn’t bother me too much. Just hope the pill starts overriding my natural hormones. I also am feeling PMT a bit. Have been homeschooling and trying to juggle everything else.
MadameOvary, after reading about the dinner time and washing machine breaking.. this resonated with me. Lack of sleep doesn’t help either and I think most of us don’t get a chance to recover !
Big hugs xx
Ps - As Gilla some of my symptoms could be pandemic stress related.
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33 hours on the patch... Is it too early to update?? ;D. Had nippy head all day and mild nausea.
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Hello,
New here, nice to meet you all. I've been hovering for a couple of days reading reading.
42. Diagnosed peri by my specialist based on symptoms and family history.
He put me on Zoely to help with irregular painful periods. I took it till the end of month 2 (I know you're supposed to give it 3) but stopped because my OCD thoughts were out of control, I couldn't sleep at all, it was like I'd drunk too much coffee alllllll the time. I lost weight because I had a constant feeling of having a rock in my stomach and I was so wired I was like a coiled spring. I felt truly awful. (I also had constant cramping and a LOT of breakthrough bleeding although that was getting better in the 2nd month).
The pill hasn't played nicely with me in the past. Microgynan gave me burning stomach cramps and upset my IBS as did Triphasil so I'm thinking levonorgesterel doesn't like me.
I have a script for microgynan 20 (I believe but aren't sure that I was on 30 in the past) and one for Yaz, however latest studies have shown it not to be very good for people with IBS so I'm a little scared of it.
After reading these forums I'm wondering if Qlaira might be a good fit for me. I have to be careful with my estrogen dose as I have a significant fibroid I don't want growing.
Other options might be to try the microgynan (not keen), norimin or marvelon or minulet although all have higher estrogen.
I don't want to keep bugging my poor doctor for scripts!
I look forward to continuing to read your updates so please keep them coming!
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Hi Aveline
Nice to hear from you. This is becoming a lovely wee thread for those of us in our early 40s trying the COC to help with peri ;D.
I'm sorry zoley didnt work for you. But yes, it may well have been the progesterone.
As you've probably seen from my posts, I've tried most of the common COC over the last year... And not had success. Yes in my 20s, no problems 🤷♀️.
I've not tried zoley or qlaira (I'm in Scotland and I think I'll have a fight on my hands to get them) but hopefully madame and gilla will continue to update.
I put the patch on on Tues... I was nervous as I'd read you absorb more estrogen. Sure e ough, within 2 days I had the horrific vile poisoned feeling... I'm now kinda sure is too much estrogen for me. I tried hrt for 2 weeks and the estrogen alone was horrific.
So, as I was awful on nothing, I'm going to give microgynon another shot. Before it made me low and off... But I think the more estrogenic ones are too much for me. I didn't know you got microgynon with 20 estrogen, mine is the classic 30.
I know what you mean about keep pestering gp for different ones, but hey, I us usually just ask for what I wa t to try and I get it.
Have a look at the Avon pill ladder - it helps explain the potency of each pill in terms of its estrogen /prog balance. There are certainly 2 with 20mg estrogen... Weren't enough estrogen for me. Hence me working out I need the 30mg estrogen but balanced with a heavy prog. Hope that makes sense.
This is awful. I totally understand. Today I am still feeling nauseous avd dizzy despite removing the patch yesterday morning. 🙄 Xxx
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Hi Aveline - I'm sorry to hear Zoely didn't work out for you. I guess it shows how different we all are as I had none of the side effects you describe. It makes it really hard because someone's "review" of a Pill (or HRT) might be bad and that puts you off or vice versa and there really is no way of knowing until you try yourself. Don't feel bad about pestering your doctor to keep trying different types - you pay National Insurance towards the NHS, that's what they're here for. And my own experience has been very much that I've had to research and help myself. Everywhere I've read does say you need to give it at least 3 months on each though - but if I were suffering as badly after 2 months as you were on Zoely I would probably have stopped at that point too.
All still fine here for me with Zoely - the only side effects I have are minor annoying things but NOTHING compared to the crippling night sweats and insomnia I was suffering for the last year prior. The minor side effects are: weight gain (about 2-3 pounds, not much), bra size has now gone up to 34G (!!!!) - some ladies might think this is great but not for me, relentless constipation no matter what I eat - even laxatives don't help, and a little bit of cramping. But again, nothing compared to what I was going through. Trying not to be over optimistic or jinx myself but the last 4 weeks have been the best in such a long time and I'm so grateful just to have felt like a normal human being!!
Good luck - I really hope you find something that helps you xx
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Gilla, so true. We all react differently to the pill, clearly.
That's me on microgynon. Feeling very sick and dizzy. These are the initial start up symptoms I get with any and, I guess the first few weeks are the worst as my own body is still producing. So that's my estrogen dominance symptoms, wheras gilla got the boob pain.
I read a lot yesterday and the points that struck me were:
The pill enters your blood stream within an hour, so I'm going to move mine to nighttime so I metabolise whilst I sleep.i certainly felt at my worst the first few hours after taking it yesterday (although need to bear in mind I had the patch on since Tues... So changeover yesterday may have been overdose!)
Secondly, an interesting point - and certainly true for me last year... If only I hadn't just taken this 4 month break...once you get to the 3 month mark, your body is adapted to the new levels of hormones. It's then easier to swap around to find one that works for you, as realistically you're only changing the prog and perhaps a very small increase or decrease in estrogen. Makes sense.
Good luck. Let us know which one u go with..
Great to hear your update gilla. I'm feeling more positive today. Xx
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So pleased for you Gilla.
Just a quick update. The past week I have had patchy sleep, almost burning boobs and I feel the ovulation symptoms. I’m on the pill so not ovulating but had some pain. Feeling quite overwhelmed By everything and hot today.
CrispyChick Thanks for the info .. I might switch the pill to evening..
Aveline , Nice to hear from you.. all the best..
MadameOvary - How are you?
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CrispyChic, thank you for the welcome. Sorry to hear you're not having any luck with the COC. It's never played well with me so I'm not too hopeful, sad because while the Zoely was sending me into feeling crazy, it was helping my chronic pelvic pain a lot. I didn't even notice how much till I stopped taking it and the pain all came back.
Thank you for mentioning the avon pill ladder. I will take a look at it too. Yes, microgynan 20 is relatively newish here I believe (not that I've had much experience for 20 years or so!).
I hope you start feeling better after removing the patch! I have no idea what my body likes in terms of progesterone and estrogen. I just know that generally my body seems to hate hormones!
Thank you Gilla! I'm in Australia so no NHS although thankfully we do have medicare. Financial circumstances have changed suddenly the last few days so not sure I can do the Qlaira ($30 a month over here and I'm already paying for other medications for various health problems). Looks like it might be one of the old fashioned types that are cheaper.
Glad to hear you're doing well on the Zoely! If I'd just had the cramping and a bit of anxiety I would have kept at it in hopes it eased after month 3 or 4, but it had just become unbearable. I feel your pain on the relentless constipation. I seemed to start suffering that one a couple of years ago after many years of having the total opposite. No amount of fibre helped (in fact seemed to make it worse).
Angelasurrey, thank you for the welcome! Hope the sleep settles soon (I'm a terrible sleeper, you have my empathy) and the burning boobs (yowch!).
Thank you all for the kind welcome :)
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I had similar symptoms at 49, the mood swings being the worse. I was referred to a menopause clinic and the gynae put me on qlaira as I need a conception too. Was on them for 5 years and they helped me alot. Plus side is they are free as they are contraceptives. They did take about four months before seeing positive affects which she did warn about this. Hope this helos
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Thanks Sue for sharing your experience..Just wondering .. Why did you need to come off the Qlaira and did you switch over to anything else..?
Thanks so much!
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The gynae said at my last appointment she was taking me off and I'd be going on hrt. Dont think they like you to be on them for more than 5 years. I've had to get a new referral because she left the clinic I was going to. Got a long wait due to covid :(.
Should add when I was on them I only had a very small bleed over 2 days.
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I really hope you get to see the gynae soon and any symptoms are manageable. 🙏🏼
Sending best wishes and thanks again for sharing❤️ x
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Hi
I'm doing better this month. The main thing is my sleep is much better which is a huge relief. I think insomnia really exacerbated other symptoms I was dealing with like anxiety and irritability.
Some of the symptoms I had in the first cycle of qlaira like sore breasts haven't been an issue so far in 2nd cycle.
And as I mentioned before, the short, light, relatively painless bleed was such a blessed relief after a lifetime of heavy painful periods. It's a real game changer.
So I'm definitely sticking with it.
Sorry to hear Zoely didn't work for you Aveline. I can see Qlaira isn't such a good option if you have to pay for it. I'm very grateful my GP prescribed it on the NHS.
Gilla, it sounds like Zoely is working out really well for you which is great news.
Take care everyone. X
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I totally agree on insomnia - I read a really interesting article that explained what happens to the brain after sleep deprivation and why it causes you to feel so anxious (I suffer with very severe anxiety after a night or two with no sleep - to the point that I'm vomiting / can't function). When I've slept, I can deal with pretty much anything!
So glad that things are going ok for you too MadameOvary. I'm thinking of taking my four day break this time (in a few days) rather than going straight through, as I'm still getting low level period type pain every night before bed. It's nothing painkillers don't get rid of but I know it's not great to be knocking ibuprofen back every night! I'm a little bit nervous that the four day break will cause a recurrence of my original symptoms but I'm hoping it will also allow me to have a little bleed and perhaps stop the pains next month. Fingers crossed!
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Loving keeping following this thread ladies. Glad to hear things are going a bit better for you both - will be do good to find something that helps. Good luck with the 4 day break gilla.
I'm on day 5 of microgynon (after 4 days on the patch). Had terrible nausea sat to Mon, but thst has subsided today. Taking it at night now.
My mood was low yestersay, but OK today. Just shows you each day on start up brings different symptoms.
My main side affect now is wooziness (mild dizzy). I'm pretty sure now this is an estrogen side affect fir me as it we t off the scale on my 2 weeks hrt trial (topping up my own). Hopefully it will subside as my own is suppressed.
Interestingly it was one of my first peri symptoms, so now looks likely I was estrogen dominant at the start. Prob explains why I've never had hot flushes properly yet. I think the prog only pill helped flatten it a bit last year, but now my mood is terrible on prog only or nothing, so I've clearly changed. Must be the roller-coaster.
Trying to stay positive this time. I need to flatten this roller coaster. One day at a time...
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Just thought I'd check in and see how others are doing? Frustratingly I've had a return of my symptoms since Friday night - the dreaded insomnia. The interesting thing is that I literally felt the shift on Friday evening, where for no reason at all I started to feel wired and anxious - just like I used to get in the week before my period. Have only got a couple of hours sleep each night since Friday.
It's just over 6 weeks since I started taking Zoely (with no break) so I'm hoping this is just my own hormones still adjusting, as the previous 5 weeks I had literally felt like a new woman. "You're back to the old Gill!" people had said. I had some cramps yesterday morning and also noticed over the last few days that my boobs have completely back to normal so that would indicate there are still some hormonal changes taking place, so I'm really hoping this is just a blip. Not planning on taking my 4 day break on Zoely now, just going to go straight through!
How's everyone else getting on?
Update: Just read back through some of the old threads here on Qlaira and one I found particularly useful was the one titled "why do I feel worse on month 2". Not because it gave a specific reason but just because a couple of people shared their experiences of how they didn't start to feel better until month 4 and that anything before that is the body still getting used to the new hormones. (Especially useful to read that from Briony who I know posted a lot about Qlairna). It's a reminder to me that we often want solutions right now (because to be fair, we feel SO crap!) but all medications including hormonal take time to settle and we can't really make a call until month 4. Because, you know, it's not like we're having to practice patience enough already in the world right now ;)
Sending good vibes out to the ladies on this thread and hoping you're all doing ok :D
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Ahhhh Gilla, its soooo frustrating!!! Stick with it. If it is manageable. If it is your original symptoms, you're still better trying this than being on nothing!
I'm day 10 of microgynon. Pleased to report the nausea and woozy have left... Fabulous. I'm now feeling extremely aggitated and anxious with mood dips. Given that my boobs are not sore, I'm guessing this is a side affect of the levongesteral, which is quite a potent old school progesterone - hopefully these are start up symptoms.
Plodding on. The poisoned feeling I had with the hrt and the patch have gone, so I think the estrogen was too much in them, on top of my own still cycling.
Fingers crossed we all come out the other side! Xx
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Thanks Crispy! It is (so far) absolutely better than nothing, so definitely sticking with it. Those days when you feel horrendous are so long drawn out though!
Well that's at least good news on the nausea and woozy! Yes I seem to recall that for me the progesterone side effect of the Pill was a very agitated feeling, although that was more BLIND ANGRY RAGE than anxious ;D I'm sure that they are start up side effects and will improve for you, it's just getting through the initial 2 or 3 months with the combination of getting used to a new medication and also your own hormonal cycle still being present.
I read a great article that confirmed the differences between the Pill and HRT for perimenopause which essentially said what we have been discussing on this thread - that the Pill completely suppresses your own hormones (because of the quantity of estrogen and progesterone in them) where as HRT is designed to "top up" your naturally dwindling hormone levels. It talked about how HRT can therefore often not be the best option if your hormones are still fluctuating (like they do in Peri, or at least early Peri), because you'll still get the swings of your own cycle - and these could even be aggravated by adding more on top. I felt reassured after reading it that we're all on the right track here :)
As you say, just keeping plodding on xx
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Absolutely right track. My two weeks on estradiol alone (as hrt) were horrific... I was clearly overdosing on estrogen.
But... I'm glad I did the trial, now I know for sure, I'm not at the low estrogen stage, just on a merry roller-coaster.
I think you're also right... My agitation now feels quite ragey 😂😂😂. Home schooling not helping. Poor kids. Really hoping this is start up.... 😬
Fingers crossed your blip disappears as quick as it arrived... We can do this!!!
I'm not planning on taking any breaks.
And remember, if this doesn't turn out to be the right pill, by 3 months the system should be suppressed and should be much easier to swap to an alternative. 😊👍
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Gilla and CrispyChick ... quick update from me. I think this month so far has been a mixture of symptoms. Had lot of cramps and just feel a bit off in the mornings. Sleep is patchy and often have to get up to go to the bathroom. This is the week before my period so a tough one. Also my trying to get my partner to understand what I’m going through.
I decided to try and reduce the amount of things I will do. Have bought some easy meals as just fed up with cooking, mess cleaning etc. I have gained weight this past 6 months ( I feel like I have pms 3 out of the 4 weeks a month So I know it’s eating on the go and comfort eating) and just need to find a healthy meal plan and aim for some exercise. It’s getting me down a bit. Skin is better ie no spots or itching.
CrispyChick homeschooling is tough on its own and these peri symptoms can tip you over the edge.
Gilla , I find the insomnia one of the hardest symptoms. I hope you get some sleep. It sounds exhausting.
thanks for the details on the hormones. I will try and ride it out and then at least I feel I’m trying something.
Hugs xxxx
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Good to hear from you Angela. How long have you been on qlaira now then???
As Gilla says, some folks find month 2 the worst.
Is your pmt still bad???? Mine was horrific last month, which is why I decided to try again with the pill... But this one is making me very noody, narky and angry... So not much change 😬 but its only week 2!
You are absokuteky right yo get ready meals etc.. I know exactly how you feel. My days consist of home schooling, making meals, cleaning up abd then a bit of work... So tiring. Hope things improve for you soon. Xx
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Hello Crispy Chick,
How are you doing? I hope things improve...
You are not alone.. PMT is still bad. This is month 2. I’m noticing it starts about two weeks before period and lasts a long time. Struggling with sleep and cramps. My little girl had a nightmare last night. I was wide awake ... so ran in to comfort her. The positive is that it didn’t wake anyone else. I managed to burn dinner yesterday. It was literally just in the oven . On top of that both kids were either crying or tantrums. Had to do a last min school assignment. I’m doing a work course which I’ve put on pause as just too shattered with Peri symptoms . Today everyone doesn’t want to eat the ready meal options so now I’m back to cooking a bit. I also did feeling really sensitive about everything. What partners says and the noise in the house.
There’s a massive pile of laundry staring at me and I’ve decided it just leave it and have a tea. House is upside down have no energy to get it tidied.
How is everyone doing?
Xx
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Hi Angela, lovely to hear from you
When I first started having all of my symptoms (primarily night sweats and terrible insomnia) it would be about a week before my period but gradually over a few months it extended and then would start on day 14 and last up until the end. So I can empathise with your two week timeline and how rubbish it is. You can kind of resign yourself if it's just a few days a month but when it's half your life it's so rubbish.
The advice of reducing the things you do is really good! Think I might splurge on some frozen meals from Cook.
I've had 5 nights in a row now of only 2 hours sleep a night and feel wretched and am off work AGAIN. Just hoping it turns a corner soon. I am just reminding myself every day that my own hormones are still active at the moment and I can't make a call until 3 or 4 months. I am starting to have doubts creep in about whether I'm pinning it all on hormones when it isn't, but I know that (a) when I look back at my diary from the last year every time it happened it was in the two weeks before my period, (b) I've just had 5 glorious weeks since starting Zoely of no sleep problems whatsoever and it makes no sense to me why that would be the case if there wasn't something underlying that changes and (c) I've been getting cramps every morning since this blip of insomnia started which makes me also think something hormonally is happening. But I guess if it still happens after month 4 then maybe I need to reassess...
Crispy - I can so remember the all consuming rage of that kind of Pill! BUT it did definitely go for me when I was younger so hang on in there if you can xxxxx your comment about it being easier to switch to another Pill after that time also made me feel a lot better!
xxx
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Hi ladies
So sorry you're all having a hard time!!! Well, I guess your hormones are not suppressed enough yet Angela, if you can pinpoint it as pmt like that. It is awful to be going through, whilst with the kids all day. I feel for you. Sorry, but you did make me laugh when you pointed out Noone wanted the ready meals. We're having chippy tea tonight, and I feel happy about that!
Dissapointed for you gilla. But you're month 2...we thought 2 would be worse... Keep going, end of month 3 will be here before you know it.
I'm now day 12 on microgynon. My god, the agitation, low mood and rage are off the scale. But, they feel artificial. Does that make sense? Although I'm feeling it all day every day, I can pretend to be normal if I need to as it all feels artificial. My only hope is it lifts - thank you for your kind words about how these pills used to do this to you, but then lift.
Everything else is much better on this pill. I'm same, just keep telling myself one day at a time... Got to see it out. I jumped off this one before because of same symptoms, but I'm determined to see it out this time. It certainly gives me less physical symptoms than some of the others, but boy, I'm like a grizzly bear 🐻
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I’m glad I brought a smile to your face :). I reckon sometimes we need a personal chef at home to cater for everyone’s needs.
Yummy.. 😋I love chippy tea. I hope it’s lovely.
Hubby can be fussier with meals than the kids which drives me bonkers :o. Crispy Chick, as long as the kids are fed and loved then we’ve got through the day!
Sorry that you are having the low mood and mood issues it’s really frustrating. It’s interesting and positive that you are able to see what’s causing the issues almost as an observer. I had microgynon when I was young for heavy bleeding.
Great advice about taking each day as it comes. I’m positive we will find some sort of relief. Just need to keep going and listen to our bodies ( easier said than done)!
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Gilla, sorry to hear about the insomnia. I totally get where you are coming from. Sleep is a necessity not a luxury. It’s so hard when everyone else is sleeping and you are wide awake for days . I have to agree with you about the cramps and insomnia. I’ve deferred a Work project as I just can’t function on such little sleep.
I just think anything that makes life easier try and go for it.. whilst we have got all this going on It might help. It’s hard for anyone whose not going through this to really understand. So lucky and great to you all in this thread ❤️.
I think go with your gut instinct/ intuition, as I think we are more in tune with our bodies than we sometimes think. 🤗
Xx
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Omg.... My scalp is soooo tingly and sore today.
I've had this on and off for years, avd was pretty certain it's hormonal. Ouchie. Day 13 of microgynon. It's bloody agony. Weird weird symptom.
I think it's prog does it - I didn't get it with the hrt trial until I added prog.
Plod through it. 😬
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Oh Gilla, sorry you've hit a rough patch. My insomnia is back too. I'm in what would be the 2nd half of my cycle when I would usually have terrible insomnia so it's nothing I'm not used to. I'm getting back to sleep OK but I'm waking up 3 or 4 times from about 2am until my alarm goes off. I'm knackered but I don't feel as bad as I did pre-Qlaira.
Crispy the microgynon doesn't sound like fun! Are you going to ride it out for 3 months to give it a chance?
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You don't feel as bad as you did pre-qlaira is a brilliant statement madame ovary. One to hold on to.
I'm day 15 of microgynon. Not great, by any stretch but plodding on. I've had horrific side affects from every pill I've tried and I was a disaster on nothing, so I think I'll plod on. Very early days.
My scalp is settling down now. It was horrible. Perhaps some form of migraine, not sure. Now I'm shaky, slightly nauseous, low appetite and my mood is up and down... But still... I'll hang in there. I need to see how I get in 3 months. I'm not taking any breaks. When I took breaks when trialling pills last year, the break really knocked me.
Oh... And I'm getting a bit of insomnia too. I don't normally suffer from that. Just joining the club. 🤣
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Glad to hear things are going well for some of you. Sorry to hear not so much for others :(
I have about a week to decide which of the scripts I'm going to fill. At this point I'm tempted to try the Zoely again even though I thought it was causing my horrendous anxiety at the time. Despite being off it for 2 months I'm finding the anxiety is all still there so maybe it was just a coincidence and it didn't affect me too badly in other ways.
Alternately I can try Microgynan which used to give me horrendous stomach cramps and make me go to the bathroom a lot
Yaz, which I was all set to try then found out it's not recommended for people with IBS as it's more likely to cause problems in that area.
Qlaira-only hesitation I have with this is that I get really sick in the stomach when I ovulate and for at least 4 days before my period. Being on my period is also really rough tummy wise. I'm concerned the up and down of hormones rather than a level stream will continue to cause effects. My poor stomach has been in all sorts since all this hormonal stuff started. I can tell it's hormone related because I keep getting acne flares at the same times (isn't life grand? Pimples AND wrinkles! I'm too old for this!!)
Or try the Zoely again.
Sigh. I change my mind on a daily basis lol.
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Hi Aveline, I was wondering what you had decided.
It is difficult when you have tried many of them before. I'm the same. I got to the point where my go said I should try the best of a bad bunch. Lol
I'm trying the microgynon because some of the more estrogenic ones gave me migraines or a poisoned feeling (which I got with estradiol in hrt - so assume too much estrogen at the moment).
So I guess it's weighing up which side affects are least bothersome... And give it a good trial and hope they go away.
I only got to week 5 on microgynon before, so I'm determined to get to the 3 month mark this time... Lots of symptoms at the mo... But they are side affects rather than my own issues... So I'm hoping that's a good sign!
Good luck with what you pick. We can all do this. We're doing it to feel good long term 😁
On a positive, after 7 days ovulation is suppressed... No more ovulation pain (yay!!!)
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Hi all - well aren't we just the insomnia club!! In my own situation I have realised this week that I think there are multiple things contributing to it and this comes back to what we've said before about it being hard to pinpoint one root cause. I am sure that my hormones at least significantly contribute to it (because of tracking it on my calendar for a year) but I've realised it's probably being aggravated sometimes by other stuff including other medication and the current world situation! The last week has been a bit better so just plodding on.
MadameOvary glad to hear that it has helped your mood swings significantly so far - that's at least a great step! Crispy I'm glad the scalp sensation has gone, I've never heard of that one before?? How's the rage? ;D
Aveline I'm obviously an advocate of Zoely and haven't had any mood symptoms whatsoever and chose it for the reasons you mention, but I know people react very differently. Just one thing to say because you mention you have IBS is that my digestive system is still totally up the spout since starting it - it's becoming a bit problematic. But again, I'm sure slobbing around all day with no exercise is not helping that.
As Crispy says it's all about weighing up which side effects are the least bothersome and then riding out the initial 3-4 months.
Take care ladies xx
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Updates anyone???
Aveline, what did you go for?
That's me 3 weeks into microgynon. It's not been easy. Looking on the positives I don't have too many of the high estrogen side affects I have had on other pills and whilst on nothing - no migraines, no dizziness, no real nausea, no sore boobs. :)
I am still getting bad side affects, namely; anxiety (where I go all jittery and shaky and need to burn some energy) and low moods. The mood thing is weird. It comes over me, lasts a few hours, then lifts again. A few hours hours later it can happen again. I've been experimenting with the time I take the pill, but not convinced it matters.
Also a bit fatigued and yucky today. And often a bit narky/impatient.
So... I'm not taking a break, so into month 2...could get better, or could find it bad, as many say month 2 is worse.
Plodding on...
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Sorry you're still getting a lot of negative side effects Crispy.
All still going well here on Qlaira. My insomnia is still a problem but everything else is fine. I'm just coming to the end of month 2.
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Hi all. I was trying to suppress my hormones with 4 pumps estrogel and Mirena. After a month, I was feeling perhaps more stable but I had put on some weight and didn’t feel noticeably different. My resting heart rate was stable for a full month which was really neat to see. I had in the back of my mind how my drs really didn’t want me using that much Estrogel. Boobs felt full and somewhat tender. I had intended to try it for 3 months, or at least two, but the 2 pumps twice a day and going through so much gel was getting to me. I was getting palpitations right after my evening application time. (I never had any breakthrough bleeding on this high dose.)
I dropped back to two pumps and my boobs feel better. Mood not great at times—I can really relate to CrispyChick with feelings of rage at times and irritable most of the time. I used to have the jittery box of frogs feeling but not lately. I felt low for a few days and then started spotting—makes sense as my dose was halved. Feeling mentally better after the spotting. Now I have palpitations at random times, including right after application time. I can’t say I felt better on a higher dose than a medium dose. Sleep was the same across the board but mercifully I don’t share the woes of insomnia. I think I feel the same overall, although my boobs feel better and down a few pounds on 2 pumps. Mental health has been my foremost concern and it’s a draw there, too. I feel lower right now, but on a high dose I was likelier to cry. I sure wish I could pinpoint what exactly causes the occasional rage because that’s got to stop. I wondered if it was the testosterone but I recall a scary outburst last summer when I wasn’t taking any. (I was taking a break from everything, actually then.) I’m hoping that the act of the decrease has caused the lower mood and I can ride this out. Shift work, Covid, lots of contributing factors.
I wonder if the palpitations are worth investigating. Definitely have them on a high dosage, no dosage, and in between. On occasion but tending to having them daily lately. Just because of fluctuations?
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So, madame ovary, I'm just checking back on the thread as that's me at end of pack one... At the end of your first pack you said you could feel your pmt symptoms etc... And now, at end of pack 2, you're saying everything is good (apart from the insomnia)
So, I'm taking from this that things have improved since the end of pack one...
I'm hopeful. Right now I don't feel amazing. Slightly dizzy and nauseous. Terrible low moods and anxious. Moving into month 2 and I'm hoping for improvement...!
Shannon, are you open to trying the pill instead of the high level hrt??? Sorry, you probably explained before xx
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CrispyChick I am open to it, but since I have the Mirena I want to try to make the best of that first. Maybe my best is accepting some bad days.
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I think that's right Crispy. I think month 2 was better. I've just started pack 3.i definitely feel best at the beginning of the pack when there are several higher estrogen and no/low progesterone days. I think it's the only time I sleep really well. But I still feel pretty good for the rest of the month. It's just the insomnia that's still a problem. Having said that, I used to get insomnia where I'd wake up and not go back to sleep for the rest of the night. Whereas now I wake up several times in the night/wee hours but I go back to sleep quickly. So it's broken sleep rather than insomnia.
Other than that, still all good :)
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MadameOvary I'm really glad to hear things are going relatively well for you. I'm midway through pack 4 (have taken no breaks) and just passed the two month mark since starting taking it. Over the last two weeks I've had two "episodes" of my really bad night sweats and waking at about midnight /1am unable to get back to sleep. Each episode lasts for about 4 nights, so basically most of the last two weeks has been pretty rubbish, which is hard to process after having an amazing 5 weeks of no problems whatsoever before that. I'm feeling pretty low and just wish I understood what was going on. When it happens the night sweats are so bad that my sheets are totally wet and need changing every night (grim!) and I'm not normally a sweaty person at all. When it happens it's also accompanied by cramps in the mornings so it does still feel like something hormonal could be going on, but then again the cramps could also be because I've been totally constipated since starting taking it in early December (I've had to do tests and blood tests this week). I've also put on another half a stone since starting Zoely, so all in all feeling pretty rubbish! Am really hoping it's just a blip and/or that the tests will shed some light on what's going on. Hope everyone is doing a bit better than me :sweatdrop:
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Hi Gilla.
That's bad :(. If it's any consolation I'm having a bad time too :-\.
You say you're two months in, but just started pack 4??? Are u not a bit further than 2 months then, even with no breaks???
No idea why your symptoms are getting bad. Although I believe the whole time it is the balance between estrogen and prog that causes problems, not necessarily the levels. The pill I tried in the summer for the full 3 months gave me night sweats - they didn't bother me too much, but it defo gave me them. But it also made me feel poisoned, which is why I stopped.
I know zoley and qlaira are heralded as good pills for peri, but I've also read the estrogen is not always high enough to suppress properly. Don't know if this is true. It is one of the reasons I'm sticking to conventional pills at 44.
In saying that. I'm not having a good time. That's 4 full weeks on microgynon (no break). I'm not really having any peri symptoms, which is great. But my side affects are hard... Every day shaky and anxious but worst of all really low and grumpy. It's hard going. I just don't feel like me. I'm fed up being narky. But... I'm gonna keep going.
Most other pills I've tried gave me bad nausea, migraines avd a poisoned feeling (which I also got with the estrogen on hrt) so I think this one is better in the estrogen camp for me... Its just the soddin progesterone causing me the grumps. Its well known for it this one. Just hope it will eventually lift...
What are your thoughts on the way forward??? Keep going for a bit longer?
I'm sorry you're feeling do bad. >:(
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I know that low and grumpy feeling you're talking about - it's all consuming, but it definitely did subside for me when I took it in my early 20s - I can't remember how long it took unfortunately, but I know I was on it for a couple of years and I definitely didn't feel like that long term! It does sound like that's the Progesterone aspect of it but as you say it's preferable to feeling poisoned!
The maths on my Pill sounded weird to me too - I started taking it on Dec 9th so I must actually be mid way through my 3rd pack, not my 4th. Honestly I don't know where to go now - I'm definitely going to stick with it for 4 months (which would be mid April) as I know it can take that time for your own hormones to be suppressed so I can't make a call until then. And in general I think being on the Pill and not having the swings of hormones is a good thing for me so I would stick with it. But if I'm still getting these crazy night sweats and insomnia t that point I've no idea what I'll do. Trying to remain positive that it will improve :-\
It's minus 11 outside and I'm still sleeping with just a flat sheet ;D
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Well, every cloud, I'm under 2 duvets and a blanket at night 🤣🤣. No sweats whatsoever. But i wasn't having them anyway, just on that pill. Very odd.
Thanks for the grumpy info. I cavt remember if I've ever been on microgynon before. I do remember being changed due to a scare way back in my 20s and remember a grumpy episode, but can't recall the outcome 🤣🤣. It is all consuming. I'm just praying it will let up... Otherwise these are another wasted 3 months.
I think what you say about being on the pill to stop the hormonal swings is something to hold on to. I told myself before I started this one, I'll never come back off the pill... So I just need to find the right one.
If zoley doesn't work for you... Move straight to a different one, at least some level of hormones will already be in your system and swapping should, be easier.
How are you during the day???
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Yes I've been hanging on to that too! Though really I am amazed at the lack of side effects with Zoely in terms of mood etc, compared to every other Pill I ever tried. So the only reason I would ever swap is if I really thought Zoely wasn't suppressing my own cycle and it could be the cause of my problems still - but not sure how I'd ever know that for sure.
During the day (if I've slept) I'm totally fine. But if I've only had two hours sleep I'm obviously a shell. Having said all of that, today I am aware that for the last 3 or 4 days I definitely feel very noticeably PMT-ish, in that I feel very very low emotionally. I guess everyone gets different emotional PMT symptoms but for me pre-Pill it was overwhelmingly sad rather than angry (like the all consuming initial rage of Microgynon!). So perhaps my hormones are still doing their thing after all, who knows. It has only been two months. And as we've said before, this awful situation we're all in at the moment really doesn't help! (I had a friend from Australia contact me yesterday being very sad at having to go into lockdown for a week after they've had 10 cases there..... I could only muster limited sympathy :-X).
I really don't think it will be a wasted 3 months for you Crispy. I would be very surprised if you weren't feeling better from a mood perspective after 3-4 months.... everything just feels painfully slow at the moment doesn't it!
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Yes, everything is painfully slow ???.
I think that great of you are feeling good during the day, normally. You're right - most pills cause some side affects.
The pmt thong dies sound like your own hormones are not yet full suppressed, so probably the reason for all the symptoms after the initial 5 weeks.
Let's keep going. The last time I tried a pill before all this peri nonsense I recall feeling pregnant (nausea and lethargic) and it miraculously going at the 3 month point. It really did take the 3 months.
You've come this far. And, you're no worse off by the sounds of it...
I too will plod on in my grumpy state. Everything has become a ffs moment 😬. But I'll try and plod on... I got to 5 weeks in May with this same pill but gave up because of these symptoms. 🙄
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Crispy and Gilla, I'm so sorry to hear you're both having such an awful time.
Having said that my insomnia on Qlaira involves waking up several times but going back to sleep immediately, unlike before when I would lie awake for hours, I had a night earlier this week when I woke up at 3am and didn't get back to sleep. I've been a bit grumpy ever since!
I'm feeling really quite irritable at the moment but not sure if it's qlaira or life.
I was only prescribed a 3 month supply and I'm on the 3rd pack now (so you must be too Gilla because you only started zoely a few days before I started qlaira I think) so I need to get a repeat prescription.
Gilla is topping up with estrogen an option? I don't know if that's something you can do on the pill but wondered if it might help with the night sweats?
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Another terrible night's sleep :'(
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Oh no!!! It's awful when u have a bad symptom >:(
I'm aggitated, flat and narky again today 🙄
What time of say do you take your pill??? I'm taking mine after tea, and I think it makes me a little sleepy... Just a thought. X
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That's interesting Crispy. I take mine in the morning. I was thinking I wanted maximum benefit of my mood being more even during the day and guessed the effects of the pill would wear off over 24 hours. Maybe I should try taking it before bed.
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I decided to take at night as the first few days I had terrible wooziness and nausea. I decided I might sleep through the worst side affects.
In saying that, last week I tried to move it forward as I thought maybe my body was craving the next dose and that's why I'm so aggitated and low... But it didn't seem to make a difference and I was all over the place, so I'm just sticking with evening. I take it about 6.30pm.
I'd say it might be worth a try.
You'd have to move it gradually over a few days...
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It's definitely worth thinking about. Fingers crossed I get a bit more sleep tonight.
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MadameOvary it is the worst isn't it :( I really hope last night was a little better for you. Thankfully the last 3 days I've been fine, so please take heart that you will be too! (I always think to myself that I'm a few days ahead of you in this journey!) What's so bizarre is (for me) the total difference between the bad nights and the normal nights. On the bad nights I wake up - PING! - wide awake anywhere between 12am and 3am absolutely drenched in sweat with wet sheets and know instantly I won't get back to sleep - it's just a totally different feeling to normal. On the 'normal' nights like last night I do often wake during the night at 3am or whatever to go to the loo, but it's a kind of drugged stumble there and back where you fall straight back to sleep. I was also FREEZING last night with no night sweats and wondering what on earth I was doing sleeping with only a flat sheet next to an open window in February ;D. This is why I really believe that there is something physical going on for me when it happens, because of the difference. It's hard to know if hormones really are the culprit because now I'm not on a cycle it appears to happen at random, but I come back in my head to the point that it's too early for our own hormone cycles to be fully suppressed yet. Everything I have read says 3-4 months so I guess a call can't be made until after that point. If it's still happening at month 4 then I'll need to think again (but will definitely stay on the Pill regardless)
This is my long winded way of saying take heart - there are definitely still our own hormonal things going on under the surface that we can't see that could be causing or contributing to what's going on xx
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I'm so glad you're doing better Gilla. Last night was better for me too. I still woke up at 6am :-\ but I think I slept through most of the night which is a huge relief.
I don't get night sweats when I wake up - my default is freezing cold! - but on the bad nights I often feel really thirsty in the night as well as needing the loo lots. It doesn't seem to bear any relation to what I've drunk during the day/evening. I think it's hormonal.
Have you got layers of bedding? I've seen that recommended. So sheets and blankets so you can layer up/strip off depending on how you're feeling.
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I have the excessive thirst and need for the loo also! And have noticed it's worse on the nights where I don't sleep. I agree that it's hormonal.
Yes I'm definitely going to sort out layers for my bed. So glad you had a better night xx
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Hi Girls
Jumping on the Qlaira train, today is day one and first pill down the hatch. I won't rehash my entire sorry tale here, suffice to say I keep going horribly anaemic due to heavy bleeding (have another thread going on this) and gynae wants to me try Qlaira or have the jaydess coil, but I cannot find a good review of Jaydess anywhere on the web or here, but I can find plenty for Qlaira. I'm 48, having estrogen spikes which is causing histamine issues, and heavy bleeds (although I feel bloomin' fantastic on estrogel when we tried suppressive doses of that!!). Just had an iron infusion which has massively helped horrible symptoms, including histamine, so I'm pleased about that.
I seem to react to progesterone (well I think I do, it's hard to say as what with whacky iron symptoms, and also histamine intolerance) so I'm nervous about 22 days of it on this pill but from what I've read, women who are prog sensitive can do OK with Qlaira. However, I've just had a scan privately and my endometrium is too thick for where I am in my cycle (10.5mm at day 17, although have gritted my teeth with utrogestan this month and period has fortunately started today on day 28) so I've got to do something about all this, I clearly need progesterone. I've also had a few irregular (short) and horribly heavy cycles which points to a lack of prog, or at least out of whack prog relative to E. In 2019 I had a polypectomy and D&C to try and help, it didn't help.
Anyway, I'm in the queue for a chat with the GP about Jaydess, but it's not a priority at the moment because of Covid (women are never a priority are we?) so I thought I'd start the Qlaira script I've got in the meantime. I prefer the idea of being in control with the pill as the thought of an IUD makes me nervous, particularly with the muppets at my practice, should I need an IUD removed (can't imagine that'd be any kind of 'priority' even if I were circling the drain).
I have read that some women top up the E in Qlaira with extra gel, once they've hit their stride, so that appeals to me also, but who knows, I might be back here tearing my hair out in a few days, feeling like I'm plugged into the mains (which seems to happen whenever exogenous progesterone enters my system!!), although trying to think positive, I really, really, really hope it suits me as the last few months have been bloody hellish!
Up the sisterhood,
Reb
x
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Hi Reb
Let us know how you get on with Qlaira. I'm 2.5 months in and have just ordered a repeat prescription because I definitely feel much better than I did before I started taking it.
The short, light periods are a real bonus - hopefully that will make a big difference to your anaemia.
X
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Hiya
Thanks, will do. Had my second pill today. I feel high histamine, crampy and a bit buzzy but then again I always feel like that as my period starts. I also take tranexamic acid to slow the bleeding (not at full steam yet) so will be interesting to see how it is this time with a big dollop of estrogen in the mix, hoping it'll shorten things.
I am trying to have a positive attitude - 'this is going to help me' - and just try and not get into hypervigilance (famous last words I realise!) and just see if I can roll with it.
I'm also doing meditation and breathing exercises and yoga as I think part of my issue is I'm a high stress person (for reasons I won't elaborate here) and have historically been through the mill, so I think part of problem with progesterone maybe is my body steals it (there is in fact a thing called the 'progesterone steal') to make stress hormones because I'm often stuck in fight or flight without realising it. I think perhaps some of my hormone disregulation is because my nervous system is disregulated. So I'm also on a mission to lower my cortisol and try and stay in parasympathetic as much as I can, to give my body the best chance. We'll see. I realise that sounds a bit 'woo' but there is in fact some science to it!!
Anyway, day 2, still sane!
Reb
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That's really interesting about the progesterone steal. I've never heard of that or thought about the link with cortisol. I'm sorry to hear you've been through the mill but it sounds like you're taking really positive steps to deal with your stress as well as your heavy bleeding.
I'm afraid the period I had on week 1 of the pill was as heavy as ever. It was the period after the 1st pack that was super light and short. You may need to wait a month or two before you see results.
Good luck and keep us posted x
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Fed up. 5 full weeks of microgynon and all OK in terms of peri symptoms... But geez, I can't take the moods much more. The same pattern every single day. Mega grumpy avd narky/angry in morning then mood dips low for a few hours in late afternoon and I feel depressed.
General feeling of 'I can't be bothered' even although I am exercising.
Someone tell me, its ONLY week 5, rather than my current thought process of... Geez that's 5 whole weeks and still feel dreadful. Sigh.
How is every one else getting on??? X
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Hi ladies
Sorry about the low mood Crispy, that sounds rubbish. At the risk of sounding woo, have you tried meditation or yoga, sometimes helps to 'swim under the waves' as it were.
Day 5 of Qlaira, happy to report I'm still sane, and actually feel pretty good today. No vibrations, mood is good, feeling pretty chipper. Tail end of period, has been pretty heavy, but not quite as bad as usual, and still have some crampy pain. I am hoping that one advantage of a good clear out with synethtic progestin is my distended stomach might be something that dissipates, as I've noticed recently that in the two weeks before my period my stomach starts to swell, which I suppose it would given I know that this month I know my endometrium was at over 10.5mm on day 17.
Only other thing to report is I'm a couple of pounds up, but might be water retention, hard to tell given it's time of the month.
I am trying to be very self disciplined with my thoughts, 'this is going to help me, everything is fine' - famous last words I realise, but trying to keep my mind on other things rather than obsess about potential side effects as it's too soon to say, and I've been such a basket case with my hormones lately, it's impossible to say anyway, what belongs where.
Will keep you posted,
Reb
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Sorry about the moods Crispy. I find it hard to separate out the effects of the pill from general life stuff! We've just lived through the craziest year, especially the last few months, I do sometimes wonder if my "symptoms" (insomnia, moodiness etc) are actually just because of anxiety, disruption to routine, stress etc. Reb, I'd say the same about weight gain. I don't think I've gained weight on Qlaira but if I had, I wouldn't know if it was because of the pill or because my life is so much more sedentary in lockdown and I've been comfort eating my way through winter!
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This is very true madameovary. I've got 2 kids homeschooling whilst working from home. No wonder I'm bloody grumpy 🤣🤣🤣.
I hear you. I think it doesn't help. I actually find I'm worse on thd weekends where we have no routine or structure... And nothing to do!!!
Today I'm exhausted. That horrible fatigue that comes from nowhere even although I'm getting plenty sleep. I'll take that over low and narky though.
All I keep coming back to is the time I started a pill before all this peri nonsense. I was nauseous and exhausted and it really was like a switch at the 3 month mark... So here's hoping.
Good luck ladies. Perhaps we'll feel brighter after tonight's announcements 🤞
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Feeling the same Crispy. Home schooling, working from home, worrying about everything, all takes its toll. I slept so badly last night. I'm totally shattered and can barely focus on the laptop screen :'(
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Hey
Two things, Crispy how is your iron? I've just had an IV iron infusion I was so bad, and it's totally transformed my life, would recommend googling 'iron deficiency without anaemia' and having a read, low iron is badly misunderstood in primary care. My mood is so much better but the fatigue was just something else! Ditto thyroid, that often goes on the wonk with our other hormones, worth ruling out.
Secondly had an email from my (private) gynae this morning, supply issues April to November for Qlaira are due, I've just had a big prescription so I'm covered but I'd recommend if you need more getting your doctor to prescribe you enough to see you through.
Reb
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Oh... I never thought about iron.
I take a full multi vit as I was low on D and B12 before avd it's helped greatly (no more sore tongue) and I take magnesium as peri was giving me migraines. Now I'm assuming this pill has stopped the migraines, but it might be the magnesium, so I'm not stopping.
But iron... Never thought of that.
Are u saying you had low mood with low iron (as well as the fatigue)????
I will have had my levels tested I'm sure as I had every test under the sun, but that was at least 12 months ago. Plus, my b12 was borderline and I had low b12 symptoms.
Hope u all bet your qlaira in in time... Such a pain. X
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Oh that's worrying about Qlaira supplies Reb. I ordered my repeat prescription early (still got 2 weeks or so of my last pack). I went to pick it up on Saturday but it hadn't arrived. They said to try again today but I was too busy at work. Now I'm worried they won't be able to get any. What will I do then?!
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Crispy
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying, low iron will make you feel depressed, anxious, low, tired etc etc and it's very very badly understood in primary care and gynaecology too, so often women will be shunted to psych or to gynae when most of their issues would be solved by fixing their iron. See here: https://www.oatext.com/iron-deficiency-without-anemia-common-important-neglected.php
If you were low D and low B12 then it's pretty much a dead cert you'll also be iron deficient, I'd also wager your folate is low. Dig out your results and let's have a look. You are considered iron deficient with an HB of 127 or below and a ferritin anywhere under 100 (ie you will be unwell and symptomatic). Vitally important to sort that out. Also low iron causes heavy periods, as well as being a consequence of them. Honestly I felt mad as a hatter, terribly emotional, mood all over the place, anxious, jittery, and just not myself, it's made a HUGE difference getting iron up. Starting on Qlaira is to try and treat the cause of the low iron, heavy periods. Btw we need sufficient iron and blood builders (B12, folate etc) to make our hormones. I had a long chat with my gynae about this, as I think a lot of women rock up in gynaecologist consulting rooms, and can't get settled on HRT when in fact the symptoms they are describing are in fact low iron, and not hormone disreguation.
Madame Ovary - I know, bloomin' typical isn't it! A good pharmacist is worth their weight in gold I've found. If the pharmacist can get it (and can confirm the coming supply issue) can you then appeal to your GP to prescribe it? Failing that you can get stuff prescribed privately with an online GP or something? My script just now with enough to cover April to Nov cost me £94, so not ideal but not impossible either.
Reb
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Thank you. That's very interesting. I think it's the one thing that's not been considered through my 3 years of hell.
I've ordered some iron spray. I use oral sprays of the other vitamins. I love them and believe they cause less stomach issues.
I had an endoscopy for celiac, but I'm not. So can't blame that.
Also my periods were very light... So again, couldn't bland that. But, it's worth a try. I've just got up after a good sleep and again feel drained. I do think it might be this pill though. And, like I said yesterday, I'd rather feel drained than low avd depressed...see what today brings...
I really hope you get your supply madame ovary. I can't find any stock issues notified online... Hopefully you can get a good stock!!!
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Hiya
Just to say spray probably won't be the dose you need, you need to know what your results are, your full blood count and your iron panel (at the very least ferritin) and most iron deficient women need at least 200mg of *elemental iron* per day to get their levels up and keep them up, and lots of people have malabsorption issues (me included) without having coeliac. Haem iron is better absorbed than non haem, but haem iron can be harder on the gut. Non haem iron needs to be taken with plenty of vitamin C well away from coffee, tea, calcium containing foods etc. Really worth reading up on iron deficiency, as your doctor will tell you everything is normal when it isn't. Your pharmacist is probably the best person to ask.
Reb
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Hi ladies
Just to quickly say Crispy I can totally understand how when you're feeling so crap that 5 weeks seems like forever, but 5 weeks of starting a Pill is still very new. I know it's so hard when the side effects make you feel so rubbish though.
I've not been too bad at all - not had any night sweats and insomnia in the last couple of weeks which has been nice. I feel very strongly though that my own natural cycle is still going on underneath though - a couple of weeks ago when I last had my night sweats and insomnia I noticed I was also feeling extremely emotional and depressed for a few days too, which is my classic PMT. I'm still hoping that will subside over the coming weeks but if I'm nearly 3 months in and my cycle hasn't been fully suppressed then I wouldn't be surprised to hear you ladies Crispy and MadameOvary are still experiencing symptoms too. Keeping my fingers crossed it will improve over the next few weeks for you xx
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Gilla, I'm so pleased for you. That sounds amazing, but yes possibly something cyclical still going on.
I'm not really noticing mine cyclical... More everyday. Sigh. But still. There are positives to this pill for me, it's just I'm struggling with the downside. Today is a bad day. But yesterday was a little better. Makes no sense.
Reb thanks for the iron info. I hear you on the dosage, however, without testing, I don't wavt to overdo it. I'm happy to take a lower dose supplement and see what happens. I don't think it is the root cause of all my problems, but be good if it helps.
X
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Gilla that sounds like a massive improvement. I'm really pleased for you.
Reb that's fascinating about iron. I take iron tablets daily but was wondering about stopping now that qlaira has made my period so much lighter. What you said about low iron actually causing heavy bleeding is really interesting. My daughter has sadly inherited my heavy periods and I worry about her being anaemic. She's as white as a ghost during her period and has fainted a few times :'(
My good news is that the chemist got more qlaira in so I've now got another 3 months' supply.
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Hey
Madame Ovary, defo check the iron, the document I posted up thread about 'iron deficiency without anaemia' is vital reading, Hb needs to be 130 or above, and you need ferritin over 100. I've been battling low iron for ten years, I feel like a new person now it's fixed, esp mood and energy. Most GPs will do a full blood count if nothing else. Crispy - I'd dig out your old results if you have access to them, the fact you are low D and low B12 is pretty much a dead cert that you need a good dollop of iron. I'm still supplementing, and I've just had an infusion (on instructions of my doc) and will keep testing until I've had a good run of less bleeding and iron staying put, it's been such a nightmare I'm taking no chances.
Just checking in to say day 7 - I don't want to tempt fate but I feel great today, mood good, weight good - no gain, skin good (my skin LOVES estrogen!!), slept well, just feel like 'me'. Spoke to my mum who said she couldn't believe how much better I sound in just a week!
That said, that's the 2:2 week done, tomorrow we start the 17 days of 2:3 so we'll see. I believe it's those 17 days that women top up with estrogel if they need to but that's a decision for another month, for now just want to see how I get on. I am still implementing my disciplined thinking for all this, and doing my breathing and yoga and meditation. I've also added an ashwagandha supplement on the instructions of my func med doc, meant to help support the adrenals and stop cortisol going on the wonk.
It's way too soon to say, but so far so good ....
Reb
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I'm glad it's going well Reb.
I don't have my blood results, but, given how I feel today, I suspect I'll be speaking to my gp in a week or so anyway... So I'll ask them. I'll start my iron spray when it arrives.
Today is horrific. Not fatigued, but my mood is off the scale pmt like. It's horrific. It's gutting as this is the only pill to have worked physically - no sir boobs, no migraines, no dizziness, no nausea, no poisoned feeling. But these moods... I'm so low and ragey. That's nearly 6 weeks...
Do I continue? My poor kids. Poor husband... And geez, my boss at work got it in the neck... I am so bad. This is how I felt with my real pmt the week before starting this pill. >:(
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When I started Microgynon 30 I also had very low nood, depressed even. After about 8 weeks it vanished completly. Apparently it has something to do with the halflife of the progestin, it needs to settle. Don't give up yet.
Alicess
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Alicess thank you soooo much. That is so helpful. :-*
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Hi all
Sorry for the radio silence. It’s been a tough few weeks. On the personal front my Partner had to leave for 10 days and my daughter decided to stay up at night. It’s been stressful but sadly his mother passed away ( Covid). My son is still young and has been very anxious about it all . I’ve been with them alone during half term.
I’ve still had the peri symptoms. Mainly bad PMT sore boobs and low mood or getting cross With myself . Crispy chick I know how awful it is.
I’m struggling with peri and the lockdown is more than enough for all of us on this thread to deal with . Homeschool is full on. I also feel guilty telling my partner How I feel .. as he’s just lost his mum ( Covid). He’s also wanting to support his dad so understandably focussing on him. I‘ve been feeling guilty as my parents are old too and haven’t seen them in months. I can feel the anxiety rising as I’m getting closer to my period.
Past few nights I’m up from 3am. Have had bad skin and just feeling low on the self esteem front. The house is a complete tip and I know it’s a trigger for me. Feeling like a maid at times. Not getting much help with chores.
Reb, I’m trying A bit of meditation and yoga and keep telling myself this too shall pass.
So I started Qlaira early Dec so really hope it suppresses my hormones soon xx
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Reb, I was looking into ashwagandha is it ok to take with the pill?
I will also look into iron xx
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Hi Angela.
You've had a lot to deal with. It is a really hard time. I'm sorry it's been so bad for you.
So you started qlaira in Dec, but still getting cyclical symptoms, like pmt... Or are you on your break? How's the rest of the month in terms of peri symptoms?
I've not had a good day yet. That's 6 weeks on microgynon. 2 days ago was the worst with severe pmt like mood. Yesterday my mood was a bit better... Go figure?!?! But I physically felt bad... Felt like I was getting a period... But I'm not as I've gone right through (and I never breakthrough bleed) so I'm guessing it's my own hormones still crashing up and down in the background. Sigh.
It's never ending, is it!? Have u had any relief from qlaira yet??? Maybe some of the ladies also on qlaira can offer some advice xx
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Thanks dear. I know we all are having challenging times.Just lucky to have you all with the support thread. Hubby away again.
I get a lot of joint pain.My body is sore and sensitive. From mid cycle just feel rubbish. Feel so worthless and so tearful. Also can’t seem to shift any weight? Bit that was piled on over the past year. If anyone has suggestions let me know. The moods are the worse. I’ve been crying since last night and feel better for it.
Trying to practice gratitude and find the small joys in life.
My two day break is this weekend.
I really hope microgynon works if not are there other options for you? Xx
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Oh Angela, it sounds like you're having a horrible time. Maybe you could ask your GP about additional estrogen?
Can you get exercise or is it too difficult while your husband is away and you're with the kids? I find even just going for a long walk helps my mood and also makes me feel physically better. I've been doing couch to 5k which, combined with the Qlaira, has really improved my mood and has helped with joint pain and how I feel about my body.
I've also been taking calcium and magnesium.
Sorry you're having such a hard time. Things will get better. Look after yourself x
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Weird. 6 weeks in and the night sweats have started. Not a symptom I had whilst au naturale, but one I had on the last pill bwhich I got to the 3 month mark with.
I can cope with it. I'd take it over all other symptoms... Doesn't really stop me sleeping, just makes me feel cold!
I guess, the point is, it's only arrived at 6 weeks in... So things are definitely still changing... :-\
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Thanks MadameOvary
Thanks for your advice. I’m trying to get out for a walk daily . I’m feeling better now it’s day 3 of period. Joint pain has subsided and mood is improving. Xx
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Glad you're feeling better Angela - physically and emotionally.
My sleep has been abysmal. I'm feeling totally exhausted today and a bit flat. I'm nearing the end of a pack. I think maybe, like pmt, my sleep gets worse and my mood drops as I near the end of the pack.
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Madameovary, I've had a couple of abysmal days over the last 7...im 6 weeks in straight... So no idea where my old cycle would be at now. But defo had pmt on a severe level. Yesterday I was totally depressed. Mood has perked up now.
Also, the night sweats I mentioned a few days ago have gone again!!
I was awake most of last night with an aggitated feeling. Its defo all the hormones... Just jeep hoping one day it balances out.
It really seems to take so much longer for our bodies to adjust. In my 20s I don't recall all these start up issues 🙄
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Does the end of a qlaira pack contain days with no estrogen???
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Crispy the last 2 pills are placebo. The two before that are 1mg estrogen with no progesterone.
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Lack of sleep is the hardest. Makes everything really difficult. It’s awful as you know everyone else is sleeping and you’re wide awake.
CrispyChick I felt very down and low and awful pmt ( just feel like withdrawing from everyone) after about day 3 of the period feeling a bit better. I can see that it’s the hormones.
MadameOvary I hope it improves.. I don’t know if not taking the two pill free days and taking it without a break would make any difference? . I got so desperate before my period I took sleepeaze from boots. Had a massive headache after.
Hang in there things will improve for us all X
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Hi Girls
Just checking in. Day 15 today. I had been doing brilliantly, and feeling so much better, but days 13, 14 and 15 are typically crappy for me anyway, as my histamine tends to peak as my estrogen peaks, making me buzzy and shaky, so I guess that's to be expected as my own hormones are still tap dancing in the background.
Things to report:
- I had my NHS scan earlier this week, pretty much a month to the day since my private one. Good news, my endometrium is half as thick at 5mm this time, so that's good (also helped I had a really feminist, knowledgeable nurse, so she and I had a good rant about how crap women's meno care is)
- my appetite appears to be up, a bit like you get in PMT week when you want to hoover up carbs, I've gained a few pounds (about 4 or 5) but not sure if this is because I'm inadvertently eating more before I realised, or water retention or what
- for the last few days I've had that funny distorted body image thing where I feel I 'look fat' (not sure if you get this) which I really hate, I generally only get this two days before my period, I hope this is not a consequence of the hormones in the pill as it really messes with my mind.
- I've spotted almost every day since I started, so 15 days, worse today, and I have had low level pelvic pain which feelsl like proper period pain today, I hope this is just spotting due to settling on the pill and not a feature of it, as need less bleeding not more
Other than that, apart from the last two days I have felt so much better in myself and not had my usual shaking, buzzy, wired, vibrating feeling. I've been sleeping OK, other than night before last where I felt so buzzy that even though I slept I felt like I'd had no rest.
I assume it takes a while for the pill to shut down your own hormones, so I've currently got Qlaira and my own hormones coursing around my veins.
Weight gain - really hope to buggery it doesn't make me fat, really not sure I could handle that, as what with thyroid issues, I have to eat like a bird to maintain my weight as it is! Has this settled down for others?
Thanks ladies
Reb
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That sounds positive Reb.
I've either got side affects or my own hot ones are still up and down a lot. Possibly the latter as some symptoms are weirdly pmt like.
I'm interested in your histamine thing??? I get a lot of jittery, shaky anxious physical feelings. I've had it bad the last 2 days. This was preceeded by dreadful low mood and pmt feelings, so I'm guessing maybe my estrogen has started to rise again.
Given I'm 6 weeks continuously on microgynon, so 30mg estradiol every day... It would have to be my own hormones still interfering. Sigh. I just wish it would balance out.
No period, no spotting. That's normal for me though. Just the backgroubd symptoms.
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Hiya
There is a weird relationship between estrogen and histamine - estrogen tells your mast cells to release more histamine, and histamine tells your ovaries to make more estrogen, so you can get stuck in a horrible loop of allergic symptoms (I see Dr Tina Peers at Nick Pannay's clinic for this, it's a specialist area for her, she's lovely). For most women, these symptoms turn up in peri as estrogen surges, or when they go on HRT. However (and sorry I know I keep harping on about it) there is also a relationship with histamine, mast cell over activation and IRON, so I've had a massive amelioration in shaky, histamine symptoms since I've fixed my iron levels. Generally I get these bouts around day 14 and just as my period starts, although annoying they are much better in recent cycles since the iron infusion. I take heavy duty antihistamines and a mast cell stabiliser too. Progesterone is supposed to be mast cell calming also, although lots of histamine intolerant women are also progesterone sensitive.
Also jittery, anxious and shaky can be iron, I know I'm a stuck record but would really encourage you to badger your doc for proper tests, it has made such a massive, massive difference to met to get that sorted out. Ditto low folate and low B12 and low Vit D can create horrible mood symptoms as well as nervous system disturbances. All those blood builders are really important for us to feel well.
Good you are having no spotting, but hear you on the PMT symptoms, it's annoying and hard to see the wood for the trees. Must say my mood is pretty much OK so I'm not feeling low, I just feel agitated and over revved physically today. But my stomach seems to be sticking out, like when I'm about to start my period, and I just feel a bit puffy and bleurgh! today.
Reb
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Yeah, that's wgat I had last week. Fuffy pmt feelings avd horrific moods. I've had bad grumpy, angry and low moods since starting this pill.. Really hoping for a change.
Interesting about the histamine. I am usually on strong antihistamines for all my allergies and, in particular, my nose issues (on which I am awaiting surgery) but last summer I was getting terrible sinus dryness and pain, so I came off everything. The antihistamines and steroid sprays... 🤔 :o. I'm doing OK without at the mo, so I'm loathe to restart...
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It's a bloody minefield isn't it. Honestly if men suffered all of this (and produced every human walking the bloody earth!) they'd have sorted it out by now!!
Hear you on the anti-histamines, downsides to everything. I eat a low histamine diet (well most of the time, cheat sometimes!) which really helps too.
I'm feeling puffy and PMT ish, but fortunately not raging or feeling down ...
Hope it levels off for you soon, I am hanging on to the idea that it takes two or three cycles to settle and just trying to not spend too much time worrying about it.
Reb
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That sounds positive about the scan Reb.
I don't think I've gained weight on Qlaira but I also started doing more exercise around the same time I started taking it so it might be that the exercise is balancing out any weight gain.
I had a lot of spotting the first month too but that's calmed down.
I definitely relate to that dysmorphic fat feeling when I was premenstrual before Qlaira. I don't know how much it was water retention and how much it was psychological. Again, that's calmed down on Qlaira but it could also be the exercise.
I also totally relate to the jittery, anxious, histamine, adrenaline feelings. That was one of the that drove me to speak to my GP about perimenopause/pmt. It's stopped with Qlaira.
I still can't sleep though!!! I think I need to try yoga or meditation or something.
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Bugger about your sleep! Sounds like if you could crack that you'd be off to the races.
Heartening to read your post and reassuring, I'm bleeding now, day 16, not too heavy, but fresh blood this time, no idea what's happening but overall I'm doing OK, certainly no worse than I was without it, and overall better I'd say. Good news about weight, I am definitely not exercising as much as i was pre lockdown, so will give myself a kick until I get back to classes in April.
Very interesting you also had the histamine, adrenaline, jittery, vibratey feeling, I absolutely hate it (it's much better than it was when iron was wrecked, but still miserable), but so far had never met anyone else who also gets it, so very pleased to hear it's gone away with Qlaira, that on its own is enough to make me persevere. I'm a bit knackered today, but this is my first week back at work after a month off post iron infusion so I suppose it was always going to be a bit of a drag ....
Will keep you posted, hope you sleep!
Reb
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MadameOvary, just thought I'd quickly check in to say - the only non-medicinal thing that has ever helped with my sleep is to push the timing of when I go to bed later. This is the basis of the CBT-i approach (which is now recognised and recommended by the NHS). However the full approach has quite strict rules which I don't necessarily follow as I don't find them always helpful, but I have found that pushing my bedtime to a little later than it would be naturally (even if I'm falling asleep on the sofa and desperate to go up) has helped.
Sending you good vibes and hoping that you turn a corner soon x
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That's interesting Gilla. I do go to bed early because I'm always so tired. I should try staying up later. I do intend to try yoga/meditation too but never get round to it!
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Are you sleeping better now Gilla?
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MadameOvary my sleep has been not great light and broken. Sometimes wide awake. Even though I had my period a few days ago I just feel irritable and angry again. Also sore breasts. I’m finding the days on the red pills are harder for some reason.
Thanks Gilla re the CBT tip.
Reb agree with you that there needs to more of a focus on Women’s Health.
Sending you all healing wishes and hugs xx
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I'm sorry Angela. My sleep was terrible before Qlaira too. It's the one thing Qlaira hasn't fixed!
My breasts were sore in 1st month of Qlaira (and for 2 weeks of every month before Qlaira) but now it's settled down and they're not sore at all. I think Gilla had this with Zoely too.
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Madame Ovary, in general I would say it is definitely better since taking the Pill - I am able to go for a week or more with great sleep and feel happy and healthy. I'm still having a night or two every week or 10 days where I'm awake between 1am and 6am but I don't think that's my hormones now, because it's not accompanied by the dreadful night sweats - the night sweats have gone, I think. The sleep is still not normal compared to 2 years ago and before, but it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as the previous 6 months before starting Zoely, where two weeks out of every four I was getting hardly any sleep at all. So I'll take what I can get! Outside of the odd night or two every week I feel pretty good.
I really would recommend looking at the CBT-i (Angela too!). The sleep restriction aspect of it is quite daunting and I personally found following it so strictly didn't help me as it made me even more anxious about my sleep, but the principal of pushing your bedtime to as late as you can possibly manage - so you're literally falling asleep on the sofa - has definitely been a useful tool for me. I am also someone who goes to bed early by nature and especially after a night of no sleep it is natural to want to, but it can actually be counter productive.
Sending you all good vibes xx
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Hi Girls
Day 19, still spotting a tiny bit, and feeling a bit bloated but doing OK overall. Not weighed myself for a couple of days, but feel about the same, but my appetite is definitely up a bit. Didn't sleep great last night or the night before but my partner has a memory foam mattress, don't know what the fuss is all about, I find it massively uncomfortable and too hot (and yes I did break lockdown, but I won't tell if you don't)! Think it was more the bed than my hormones, because I sleep fine in my own bed. You have my sympathies on the lack of sleep, it really affects mood. Limiting screen time in the evenings can also help, as can having a hot bath, as the falling body temp helps us fall asleep. Think they call it good sleep hygiene. I'm a big yoga devotee anyway, there's some good vids on youtube.
I wanted to ask, and it may well be buried in this thread somewhere, how does the estrogen in Qlaira compare to estrogel, is there an equivalence in terms of amount? Is there a way to roughly work out what it'd equate to in pumps? I think one pump is 0.75mg, so most days we take the equiv of about 3 pumps (four on the first two high E days)? And I think I'm right in thinking the ratio of prog to estrogen in Qlaira is different to traditional HRT (ie we take more progesterone)? Obviously it's not a like for like comparison, so I'm guessing we can't say 'it's about the same as taking x utrogestan' but I'm just curious in terms of the dose we're taking.
To date, defo felt the best on the 5 days of 2:2 but too soon to say ....
Reb
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Ladies quick question - I remember someone mentioning on here (Reb, was it you? x) about a histamine response as part of your symptoms, and was wondering if you can give a bit more info on what you meant by that. I've noticed that when I wake in the middle of the night I often have an inflamed nose so I need to breathe through my mouth and it lasts for most of the next day too. It's probably nothing / not connected but as I am one of those people who generally suffers with auto immune stuff, I was just interested to hear what you meant.
Two days in a row now with being awake 1am-5am... but I know that it passes soon and I can then have a great 1-2 weeks after it, so trying not to stress about it too much. It is definitely overall MUCH better since starting Zoely - it is 3 months today since starting it. In case it helps others, I had a low dip of about a week where I definitely felt PMT stuff going on the week of the 2 month mark. But after that and up till now when I look back over my calendar the last 4 weeks have been relatively much more plain sailing. Hope this helps others xx
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Hi
Yes, there's a link between histamine and estrogen, this often shows up in peri, with estrogen surges or as women start HRT (rashes, itching, food intolerances, heavy and painful periods etc). This explains the link although she's a func med and they seem a bit wedded to the whole John Lee progesterone thing which is a bit woo woo in my opinion so I'm not sure she's entirely right on the 'cure' https://www.larabriden.com/the-curious-link-between-estrogen-and-histamine-intolerance/
If you think of your histamine load like a 'bucket', it can be helpful to keep your bucket at a tolerable level with good diet etc so that when you add something that increases the histamine response (e.g. estrogen) you don't then end up with an overflow. There's also a connection with anaemia and histamine, and I'm doing a lot better now my iron is fixed (had an iron infusion in Jan).
Hope that helps,
Reb
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Thanks for the update Gilla. Really helpful. So pleased for you. And really useful to hear you had a pmt week at end of second month and since been better.
I'm at end of week 7 on microgynon. As you know, it's been hard. I do feel my mood has been slightly improved the last few days. But physically, I'm feeling dreadful. Head feels heavy and off, a bit nausea and generally yuck. But... I'm wondering if it is side affects from my covid jab I had 6 days ago... Just not sure. I hope it is, otherwise I'm now in the physical torture of the pill. Ahhhh
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Thanks for the info Reb, that's really helpful. I had no idea about a connection between etrogen and histamine.
Crispy obviously everyone is different, but for me that week (exactly on the two month mark of starting take the Pill) was definite PMT - it wasn't just the insomnia and night sweats it was also very sad and low mood (which is my classic PMT mood symptoms) for about 5 days. And then it lifted very suddenly and I felt fine. So what I'm saying is it's clear to me that my own hormones were still active at that point (they could still be active now, who knows! One doctor said to me in can take up to 6 months!) But despite the odd few days I have overall felt much better across the last 4 weeks.
Having said all of that I didn't feel that any of my hiccups were due to side effects of Zoely - I really have had zero side effects of the Pill itself except for some weight gain and changes to my digestion (I have to have a colonoscopy next week it's got that bad - perhaps it's just a coincidence it started at the same time as taking Zoely though). So if you feel like your symptoms are side effects of the Microgynon itself perhaps that's different. Having said that, most people I know who have had the Covid jab have felt as you describe for a week or so afterwards, so definitely wait and see how you go over the next 3 weeks. Would you say you have overall felt any better since starting Microgynon than being au natural?
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Thanks Gilla.
Yes, apart from this week, I would say the physical symptoms have been a lot better. No headaches, no dizziness, no nausea, no ovulation pain (ended up in out of hours with that a few months ago). That's why I've plodded on.
The ragey, grumpy and low mood are defo side affects. Just keep hoping they bog off. Along with agitation and shakiness.
This new physical stuff is annoying. Really hoping it's the vaccine and it'll bog off. I just attribute everything to my hormones and notice everything.
Thanks for the reply. It really does help. Xx
Good luck with the colonoscopy. I think they do say the pill can make your system more sluggage, but this sounds quite exteme. I assume no change in diet? I was eating gluten free for a year and since stopping that, I've been so much better in that respect. I guess it was a lack of fibre. Xx
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Hi both
Crispy I'm going to be an annoying stuck record and implore you to rule out iron deficiency (not to be confused with anaemia, which is absolute iron deficiency, we can be symptomatic with what our GPs would consider 'normal' but suboptimal iron results). I've had a radical improvement in low mood, shakiness and generally feeling terrible by fixing my iron - honestly I was an emotional wreck. The reason I've been put on Qlaira is to slow down the bleeding driving the iron loss. It's incredibly badly understood in primary care.
Gilla, mind me asking about the weight gain? I've put a few pounds on, but the iron deficiency over Xmas made me incredibly anxious so I think I worried a load of weight off so wondering if I'm rebalancing a bit now, or whether it's the pill ... I'm still spotting and feeling a bit PMT ish so perhaps it's just the ups and downs of my own hormones plus the pill at this early stage and will settle down?
Reb
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Sorry your sleep has gone haywire again Gilla. And good luck with the colonoscopy.
I've had 2 nights of perfect sleep. It's the 2 nights where I'm on 3mg of estrogen. The rest of the month is terrible. So I'm wondering if it means low estrogen is causing the insomnia (those 2 days are the highest dose of estrogen in the Qlaira regime - the rest of the month is 2mg or 1mg) or is it progesterone that's causing the insomnia?
Crispy, I hope you feel better soon. I know a lot of people who've felt unwell after the vaccine but it passes quickly.
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Hiya
Interesting about your sleep, that's why I'm wondering about the equivalence doses, it's too soon to say for me, but I'm defo doing better so far on the high E days (I already know I feel great on a good dollop of E, but I also felt better on higher E relative to P too, so that whole first week). What I'm wondering is, is the prog dose enough to keep our linings thin to act as the prog component of HRT? I think I've read it is. If yes, then I'm sure I've read somewhere (wish I could find it, sure it was on this forum, will look again, it's ringing a bell that Hurdity was on the thread) that you can then top up the E with gel, til you feel good. I think we're on a fairly generous dose of prog, so I think I'm remembering correctly. I don't know enough about HRT and hormones, so could with a knowledgeable person to chime in here, but I think lots of women on nigh on continuous prog need a nice bit of E to balance it out and feel OK, that it's not just the amounts but the ratio that's important too.
ie) you could play around with E a bit once you've got a long enough x axis of data (time) to say with some confidence what 'works' and when you feel good because you've got the steady dose of prog to keep things safe?
I'm intending on doing another private scan in a couple of months to check it's keeping my lining thin, and will discuss with my gynae too, but I'm hoping she'll let me top up if I need. The first regime I tried, I did a couple of months of E-only before adding the prog, and I honestly felt bloomin fantastic, I miss feeling nicely dosed on the stuff! I think the gel also absorbs better through the skin than going through the gut too. 3mg is 'equivalent' to about four pumps I think (prob less given absorption / conversion?) so ... I'm thinking why can't we just whack a bit of E gel on top once we've settled down if the prog element is doing it's job?
Not sure that helps, correct me if I've misunderstood ... but my major issue is finding a prog I can handle that controls the bleeding, if (fingers crossed!) Qlaira is it - dionegest - then this probably makes me a 'maverick patient' (wouldn't be the first time!!) but I have no intention of suffering on a regime that isn't quite right, and if I need a tad more E don't see why I shouldn't have it!
Reb
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That does make sense Reb. But I don't know anything about HRT doses or how Qlaira compares or whether it's OK to top up the estrogen.
I find it all really confusing to be honest. So many of my symptoms pre-qlaira were things associated with too much estrogen (painful, swollen breasts, weepiness etc). But the estrogen in qlaira seems to make me feel great. I don't really get it!
Keeping my fingers crossed that qlaira sorts your bleeding and low iron. It's been a game changer for me. I still can't get over the 3 day period with no need for nurofen. It's a miracle!
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Hi all
Well I had ONE hour of sleep last night and have been awake since midnight, which means a grand total of 5 hours sleep across the last 3 nights. Obviously feeling completely wrecked now.
One thing i did clock was that as it was exactly 4 weeks ago when I had the last bout of this and it has made me wonder if it could still be my own hormones cycling underneath. But perhaps I'm just desperate for a reason why this keeps on happening. I know that the night sweats have had a definite improvement since the Pill.
In terms of Estrogen compared to Prog, I know for certain that when I was getting these bouts of insomnia pre Zoely it was ALWAYS at the times in my cycle when my Estrogen dropped (ie firstly just the week before my period but then over time grew to be from day 14 onwards like clockwork). From day 1 to day 14 (when Estrogen is naturally high compared to P) I felt bloody fantastic and had no sleep problems whatsoever. So Reb it's no surprise at all for me to hear you are better on the days on the high Estrogen in Qlaira (it's also the reason why I chose Zoely over Qlaira as I didn't want the fluctuations) and Madame Ovary same thing - the nights you are not sleeping being when your estrogen is lower is just classic.
Reb I am really interested in the idea of topping up with Estrogen gel, particularly if I have another bout of this in another 4 weeks, as I think that timeline would really indicate to me that my own cycle has not been fully suppressed. Do you know how much you take and how to go about it? I don't have a gynae and the GPs are useless
Reb with the weight - for me it's completely impossible to tell because I'm also on Mirtazapine - an antidepressant I was prescribed years ago - for which the average weight gain is two stone. I've gone from a size 8 to a size 16 in 18 months and put on over two stone despite eating better than I did before. I did notice that when I started Zoely I put on an extra 4 or 5 pounds but honestly it's impossible to tell if it was really the cause. The insomnia bouts also mess everything up in terms of healthy eating etc so it could really be anything xx
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Hey
So sorry about your sleep, that sounds miserable! I'm still not very knowledgeable about hormones (thyroid hormones yes, can do those standing on my head, sex hormones and the female menstrual cycle makes my head hurt) but I think I'm getting both high E symptoms (when my histamine goes bananas at around day 13 and 14) and low E symptoms like you say too. I can defo see changes in my skin through the month too, so just as my period starts, I look older and a bit haggard, and my skin becomes softer and more plump as we go through the first half of my cycle. I defo feel much better in the first half of my cycle than the second, always have.
I don't know about adding gel as I'm not doing it yet, but I'm sure I read it somewhere on here or on Mumsnet, I'll have another look and see if I can find the info, but I'm sure I read that for women our age in peri, the prog element can act as the prog part of HRT, so it stands to reason (well my reason anyway, I could be wrong) that like other women on HRT provided we are protecting the womb then surely the E dose is a matter of a bit of trial and error.
Could your anti depressant be affectng your sleep too do you think?
Weight, did some googling on Qlaira and on the pill generally, apparently a little weight gain - 5 or so pounds - is typical for the first two or three months but it's water weight and temporary as we settle down, so provided I don't keep gaining (going to up the exercise and cut down on the creeping amounts of lockdown G&T which then make me open the cupboards for a late night snack of cheese and crackers .... ) I've decided not to worry about it. It's more the PMT body image stuff that I'm finding harder, it's like having fairground mirrors in the house, I've always had this just before my period but it's been hanging around for over a week now ... you know, you look at yourself and your first automatic thought it 'Christ I look fat' - I know I'm NOT fat, it just wears me out, feeling rubbish about myself! I hope that passes. That said I know progesterone is the PMT hormone, which is why I'm wondering about balance of P to E, but that's a problem for another day, will do some digging and report back. If your GP is crap probably easiest way is to use an online GP to write you a script ... but you'd need to know what you are doing before you do that. I'm hoping my gynae will get on board with this idea if nec and advise!
Sleep for me - I have to have crisp clean sheets if I can't sleep, my bedroom needs to be aired, and tidy (I can't sleep in a messy room), and I'm quite strict about not scrolling on my phone or anything that can rev my brain up. I only get it rarely but if i have an issue it's getting to sleep, not waking up. Have you tried guided meditation or anything like that, or some of the sleep sounds on youtube (falling rain, or sounds crazy there's this art teacher called Bob Ross, he's got one of those soothing voices, there's tapes of his lectures with falling rain sounds, it's remarkably relaxing!!)? It's miserable when you are sleep deprived, you have my sympathies and I hope you get some relief!
Reb
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Wow, Bob Ross with rain sounds amazing! He has such a soothing voice.
Gilla, you must be totally wrecked. I hope you get a better night's sleep tonight.
I drop off like a baby but I wake like clockwork at various points in the night needing a wee and a drink of water. I feel incredibly thirsty when I wake up. Pre qlaira it was just terrible in the 2 weeks before my period, getting progressively worse until my period started. I would sometimes wake up and be unable to get back to sleep at all. Whereas now I wake up pretty much all of the month (apart from the high estrogen, no progesterone days) but I go back to sleep easily.
It's definitely not as bad as what you're dealing with Gilla although I've been there in the past and can sympathise.
Reb, my room is a tip and I'm very bad about scrolling through my phone. I know I shouldn't but I still do it!
I also know what you mean about feeling fat and premenstrual.
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Thanks Madame Ovary and Reb - managed to take some pills and drug myself to sleep. I did wake at 4am with night sweats but fell back asleep again. I also have low level cramps this morning, just like I did when this sleeping thing last happened 4 weeks ago, so now I'm wondering if my hormones are still at work. It's so frustrating not being able to know at any one time what's happening inside our bodies and therefore not knowing how to treat it. I actually tried Estradot prior to Zoely so I could get another prescription of that and even cut the patch in two to start with a lower dose, but I'm really reluctant to do anything without knowing if it really is the cause. The only thing I can think to do is pay for one of those hormone rhythm profile tests where you do a saliva test every day to measure your hormones, so I would hopefully be able to see if there are still fluctuations happening.
Reb on the weight thing, I can totally empathise. Having been a size 8 / 8.5 stone all my life and going to a size 16 / 11 stone with the Mirtazapine it has been a huge shock to my system and very hard to deal with psychologically.
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Hi gilla
I'm so sorry you're going through this - you have been very supportive to me with my own trials and, being further ahead, have helped me see the bigger picture.
No advice really, other than, step back and see this as a blip. As you pointed out it happened 4 weeks ago - so highly likely to be your own hormones still surging. As last time, it should pass... And hopefully not rear it's head again next time as your body stabalises. Drug yourself for a few nights to get through it ;D
I'm still an utter mess. Got some really weird physical symptoms going on this week. I'm hoping it's the covid jab, but it's now 8 days since I had it... I'm really hoping it's not this pill. Just trying to plod on.
My stomach has certainly felt a bit 'periody' the last 2 mornings. I know my my moods that my own hormones are still crashing around. Whilst the microgynon has made me ragey and grumpy, some days the pmt feelings have been horrific.
You mention trying estradot - but why did you stop before??? I'm assuming it was not a perfect fit? X
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Thanks so much Crispy - really appreciate the words xx
I think if people are sensitive to meds like we are then it could well still be the Covid jab influencing but (just like with me) it sounds like there could be multiple things going on rather than just one. All I know is that when I took Microgynon (admittedly a long time ago now) I know I felt that horrible rage at first, but I was on it for about two years I think in total, and I definitely didn't feel that way throughout. I know that doesn't help much in terms of giving you a timescale. How long do you think you'll give it before making a call on whether you want to switch? 4 months?
I tried Estradot before Zoely but it didn't help - not only could i not cope with Utrogestan but from what I have read the Estrogen in HRT is not high enough to suppress your own cycle. HRT is designed to "top up" low or non existent levels of Estrogen for women in a later stage of menopause, rather than override your own cycle entirely, and it's the erratic fluctuations in my own cycle for me in early Peri that have been causing the issue. I wouldn't rule out trying it as an "add on" to Zoely though, if I knew that the Estrogen in Zoely wasn't high enough to suppress my own. I'm going to go ahead and do another Rhythm Plus hormone saliva test, which tests your hormones every other day. It's £235 but at least that will give me some insight into whether my own hormones are still cycling underneath. If they aren't I would expect just to see a flat line of Estrogen from the Zoely.
Isn't it bonkers that in 2021 we are left playing detective over our own health!
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Right. After another night of being awake since 3am I've had enough and am going to try switching to another contraceptive Pill. I definitely have mild period cramps this morning. I don't think all my problems are down to my hormones - I think it's now become a "thing" where I'm waking and triggering my brain because it's become a habit - but the fact it's happening 4 weeks apart and both times it's accompanied by mild period pains makes me think perhaps something is going on.
I read that if the cycle isn't being fully suppressed that it can be because the Progestin isn't strong enough, but I've struggled to find any resources that tell you the equivalent doses between different types of Progestins in Pills, so I've no idea which to move up to on the scale! Does anyone know where I could find that out? What's also difficult is that, being a newer drug, Zoely doesn't appear in a lot of the comparison charts.
My doctor has now prescribed me antipsychotics in order to sleep - I'm not blimmin psychotic! Not even anxious or depressed, it's purely just the lack of sleep!
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Sorry Gilla :'(
I'm afraid I don't know how to compare the different hormone levels in different pills.
Do you know which pill you're going to ask for?
Anti psychotics don't sound like the right solution for insomnia but I'm not an expert.
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I've been sitting here reading and reading trying to work out which Pill to go for, it's a total minefield! The trouble is that neither Zoely or Qlaira appear on any of the "pill ladder" type publications so you can't work out where to go from. I think I'm going to try switching to Qlaira. Everything says if your cycle isn't being suppressed you need to increase the Progestin which would mean Microgynon. But I think I'm going to give Qlaira a shot first as having read some new information today it seems to have a better profile than Zoely in some aspects. I am a little nervous about the fluctuations in levels (which is why I chose Zoely over it in the first place). Do you really notice difference on those days Madame O?
Thanks all for listening to me on these rubbish days!
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I do notice the difference but it's nothing like the wild fluctuations in mood/physical symptoms before I was on Qlaira.
It's more that I notice how great I feel on the high estrogen days, rather than noticing that I feel bad at any other point in month.
I would still say the only symptom I still have is poor sleep but it's not the wide awake insomnia you've been having. It's more waking up to go to the loo and then going back to sleep. Before Qlaira I had bouts of the wide awake insomnia so I know what hell it is.
No other side effects. No weight gain or anything.
I think Qlaira has slightly more estradiol than Zoely for most of the month so that might suit you.
I hope it works for you.
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Hi Girls
Just a quickie, will catch up on this thread a bit later, just to say I made it to day 26 on Qlaira, so the last estrogen day. God do I feel really good on the estrogen, but overall I have been doing fine on Qlaira. Had a wobbly high histamine day on Friday (which in hindsight was milder than it would have been in the run up to my period), feeling emotional and ratty and anxious (there was a genuine trigger for that too) before I realised it was probably my own hormones in combo with the pill. I've started spotting more heavily today and feel like period is about to arrive. Weight seems to have steadied. All in all pretty chuffed to have done a month, and I'd say overall I'm definitely better and certainly no worse on Qlaira so everything crossed that this period is lighter. My mum keeps telling me that I 'sound like my old self' so that's something.
Gilla, just to say my gynae said there are anticipated supply issues with Qlaira April to November, so if you do get a script make sure your doctor prescribes enough so you can stockpile. It'd be rubbish to find it suits you, only to discover it's out of stock! I paid for a private script (£94) and now have a year's worth in a drawer!
Also, to sound like a stuck record, do check your iron (you need your hb above 127, ideally over 130, and ferritin over 100 to be optimal, your GP will disagree!) as when I was iron deficient (well before I was anaemic in the true sense) I was having awful problems with restlessness, sleeplessness, irritability and generally feeling all over the show, fixing my iron truly has made a massive difference to my mood, sleep and just feeling settled on the inside. In fact it's only in hindsight as I come out of this horrible trough I've been in with hormones, blood loss and anaemia that I realise how far away from the 'old me' I've been. I've also had hardly any booze this week (not that I was drinking masses before, but was having one or two G&Ts most nights) and have slept so much better and noticed I've not been so hot at night either. My skin is thanking me for it too.
More anon, need to crack on with work,
Reb
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Hi Reb - that's really great news that you feel good so far on Qlaira! I instead decided to start Yasmin 3 days ago after speaking to a couple of other people about the best option for me. We'll see how it goes... so far have been feeling the same yucky start up side effects I used to in my 20s (just tired, headache, nausea and general bleurgh) but to be honest the last week has been so traumatic from severe lack of sleep that I'm still reeling from it all. The last couple of nights have been a bit better but still feeling very fragile.
I'm still waking every night sweating like crazy - the Zoely initially seemed to dull the night sweats initially but they've come back with a vengeance now - so I spent an extortionate amount of money this morning on a wool bedding set! Eek!
I had my iron checked a couple of weeks ago for a routine blood test and my HB was 143. They didn't test Ferritin I don't think, unless it's called something else on the report.
Really glad to hear you're feeling a bit better with things - it seems like things are tentatively looking up for all the ladies on this thread which is great news xx
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Hi everyone,
Sorry it's been so long since my last check in. Things haven't been great and I've been being a hermit (bad habit of mine). Dealing with so many health issues I'm not sure which one to tackle first and because I'm not working (because of the health issues) I can't actually afford to fix them right now. It's a vicious cycle.
I did end up trying the Zoely again. It was both the same, yet different. 2nd time around I got no cramps, didn't go off my food and didn't have any breakthrough bleeding at all which was weird because the first time around I bled every day for almost 2 months. This time around I got the familiar grinding stomach pains I tend to get with the pill. The first time my skin improved, this time it went downhill fast. I got that anxious, hyped up feeling again with the first pill but I was determined. By week 3 I hadn't slept a wink in the whole 3 weeks and I'd become so obsessive again I couldn't stand to be around myself. My poor husband when I asked sheepishly admitted he thought things had gone downhill but had been too scared to tell me. I felt like a monster :'(
So at that point I went off it again and have been dealing with bad breakouts, low mood, insomnia and all the fun that goes with my chronic pelvic pain. I think I need a checkup, something doesn't feel right but when you have stomach issues it's hard to make anyone listen.
Reb, Interesting info about the anxiety and iron. I've had low iron for years. I did have an iron infusion a number of years back but had a terrible reaction to it and not keen to do that again. I've been trying to take tablets but even iron bisglycinate messes my stomach up so badly I can't function. I think my ferratin level was 8 last time I was checked which was at least a year ago so probably worse now. I don't know how else to fix it though.
Mental health has been terrible. I don't know if it's situational or hormonal. I know they're still going crazy because of my skin.
So at the moment tossing up whether to try Endep for the pelvic pain, cymbalta for pelvic pain and mental health or attempt another pill. I'm not keen on keeping on messing up my hormones though which I suppose is a little ironic given they're messed up anyway. The skin of a teenager with the wrinkles of a 40 something is kind of hard to deal with though and they really hurt some of them.
Crispy sorry to hear you haven't had any luck improving so far on the microgynan! I was hoping to log in and see that you'd found positive changes.
Gillian I was going to say something to you but I've read so many posts my head is spinning and I can't recall what on earth I was going to say! I should have made notes!
Someone else mentioned horrendous thirst at night!!! I thought this was just me! No matter how much water I drink during the day or before bed I still wake up parched and sore throatish.
Anyway, I really will make more effort to pop in and check up on everyone! Falling down the rabbit hole of obsessive anxiety is awful and no other than my family know about it so I never get to offload about just how miserable it can be. Thank you all for listening!
Hope all of you who are in strict iso are coping with it okay. You have my utmost sympathy. I can't even begin to imagine. We've only had 1 single minor stint of isolation and that was hard, being like that for over a year is just.....wow.
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Well, I'm still going with microgynon. That's 8 full weeks (no break). Will keep going.
The last week my anger has turned down a little, I think. But I'm still quite narky, impatient and grumpy with certain people and work 🤣.
I'll keep plodding on.
I don't feel particularly cheery! Also pretty tired all the time. Sleeping like a log for a long time (sorry, I know a lot of you are really struggling with this).
Gilla - how are you finding yasmin??? I think I've said before, the last time I was properly on a coc (4 years ago) I remember nausea avd tiredness which suddenly lifted at the 3 month mark. It can be a long 3 months though.
I felt awful the first few days on micro, but that lifted quickly. Good luck x
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Aveline, I'm so sorry you've been going such a rough time. Do you have any plans on what you'll do now? It's always hard to know how much of what's going on is mental health vs hormones - this is why I think it's crazy we don't have a way to easily test our hormones in order to be able to correlate.
Crispy, 3 months is a long time to have to deal with side effects isn't it - it must feel like forever. I really really hope it starts to lift for you at that point, which should also hopefully coincide with brighter weather and restrictions being lifted. From December to now has just dragged so much even before you add in the hormone stuff. It'll be the kind of thing where one day you just realise you don't feel as crap.
This is Day 4 of Yasmin and I'm ok! To be honest if I'm sleeping I can cope with anything - the last 2-3 night has improved to 5 hours a night. The night sweats are still crazy though. I've spent a ridiculous amount of (credit card) money on wool bedding that arrives today so looking forward to giving that a try. I would say with Yasmin I just feel a bit "bleurgh" - mild nausea and tiredness/yucky. But so far anyway (touch wood) I don't feel as bad as I remember feeling when trying it in my early 30s. Perhaps you're right with the ease of switching from one Pill to another, or perhaps all things are relative now ;D
I've no idea how long it might take to shut down my own hormones - I'm hoping not long.... xx
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Hi Gilla999 and Crispchick,
Does the higher dose like yasmin and microgynon suppress the hormones which then stops the fluctuations do you know. I tried Eloine but it didn’t fully work. I know the pill stops ovulation but does it stop the hormones fluctuating?
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Hi Floo.
Honest answer - I'm not sure. When you read around it certainly reads like they suppress your own. But I've had issues with most of the ones I've tried, even thd two I managed to get to the 3 month mark. But I'm guessing it can take quite a while to fully suppress.
As I understand it, the progesterone stops ovulation. So the estrogen must be there to stop your own going up and down and give you a steady dose.
All I can say is, that at 44, it is what the NHS menopause clinic suggested for me. Although I'm struggling with them, I am better than on nothing and HRT for me horrifically poisoned me. So this is my only option...
Gilla... I'm glaf you are tolerating OK. Bleugh is a fantastic term. That's exactly how I'm feeling every day now. Bleugh. I'd happily do another 8 weeks of Bleugh if someone promised me I'd feel good after that 🤣🤣🤣. But they never can...
Hopefully you'll sleep better with this one. I'm sleepy all the time 🤣🤣. But I hear you, sleep helps with soooo much.
I also think you're right. I was out all day Fri and sat with the kids for the first time in ages... I had moments of feeling OK. But I think it's just I was out of the house and busy. This situation is not helping. I feel and analyse all day long!!!
Floo. How old are u? X
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OK, just looked, so eloine is a low dose pill. So 20mg estrogen (I think). I tried a 20mg one last year. Didn't help.
Microgynon and yasmin are both 30mg. Common dose. But they won't give you it in your 40s if high blood pressure or smoke or overweight...
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Hi I’m 53, I went back on Eloine June last year until a few weeks ago but I was getting symptoms so hrt was added and all went haywire. I do believe especially when you see my bloods which are just a snapshot in time that my fluctuations are frantic so proving difficult to treat. I did mention the higher dose pill to the specialist but she wasn’t keen. I’m just so ill most of the time and then don’t sleep either it brutal. I think I will be unwell until the fluctuations and my ovaries finally calm down.
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Oh floo, it's so awful. I totally understand. This has been me for 3 years. I felt so ill at the beginning that I had every test under the sun.
OK. So you stopped the low dose pill and tried hrt??? And that was worse?
Certainly an eye-opener for me was trying hrt in Dec and feeling poisoned. It is that moment that I realised my estrogen was prob surging. That's what makes the pill make sense... But I'm still not finding relief...
So, I know the pill is not meant for over 50, but if they were happy for you to try a low dose one, maybe the extra 10mg estrogen is all you need...?
There are differences in the safety profiles of them. From what I understand 3rd generation progesterones, which give less side affects, have higher stroke risk. The second gen ones are safest. Microgynon is a second gen one and one of the most prescribed pills, but boy it has been brutal on my moods for the first 8 weeks...
I guess it's the specialist you need to convince if you want to try. Or you could ask for qlaira... A few of the ladies on this thread are getting on OK with it????
Are u UK? Is it a NHS specialist???
Keep fighting. We deserve a better life xxx
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Hi
Just a quickie, will write more later, just swinging by to drop these here to read later
https://www.nhstaysideadtc.scot.nhs.uk/approved/guidance/Contraception%20Table%20TSRHS.pdf - compares Qlaira and Zoely with other pills we are discussing
And a med paper on Qlaira https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/WHE.11.49
Qlaira's estrogen in is Mg and the others are in mcg, not clever enough to know the difference in potency though, is Qlaira a high estrogen pill ...?
Floo, I'll write more later as I also have multiple health conditions and it's been a very very long road indeed, but I'd really, really, really urge you to sort your iron out pronto. I'll post some links when I've finished work, there are some irons that are much better tolerated.
Also assuming with your tummy troubles they've ruled out coeliac and crohns? But if you are anything like me, your 'mental health' woes could largely be due to your anaemia, honestly combined with my thyroid troubles (very very serious and treacherous endo problems, now sorted, but doesn't take much for me to be thrown off balance), peri hormones, and low iron, I was a certified basket case!!
It's only now I'm coming out of this latest trough that I realise how terrible I've been feeling, and how I must have been bumping along the bottom for years. The amount of time and money I've spent, and the ridiculous amounts of lost earnings and frankly, just human suffering that I've endured makes me very angry. Women's care should be better than this and someone should have been listening to me and in my corner. It's not right we are left to suffer like this, and if we complain or stand up to doctors we are branded as neurotic. It's bloody rubbish!
A month of Qlaira, and two months of my iron being fixed post infusion and I'm honestly a new woman, my mum keeps telling me that I sound like my old self, starting to feel like her too (don't know whether this will make sense, but back when I was really poorly - lost my job, isolated, fat, knackered and feeling bloody dreadful, I used to cry and say 'I miss myself' ... well she's back!).
Anyway, I'll be back, but I can guarantee if you get your iron (and blood, B12, folate etc) sorted out you will feel so much better.
Reb
xx
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Hi
You are all suffering so much it’s just not right is it.
I only stopped the Eloine just over 2 weeks ago because 3 months ago my specialist (private) added in Lenzetto, I just got worse, kept upping the dose and no change all the usual low Estrogen symptoms. A few weeks ago I had a review and she said that the pill can affect absorption of hrt and to start reducing the Eloine. I just thought well if it’s doing that and she’s taking me off it anyway then I may as well stop cold turkey because I don’t want to wean off over the months and waste more time being ill trying to work out if I absorb the Lenzetto. I don’t feel any different since stopping the Eloine which keeps leading me to it’s my own fluctuations that are making me ill. I had a week of blood test just on the Lenzetto to build a better picture and it confirms that my hormones are frantic, it’s hard to work out if I’m absorbing the Lenzetto but I think I probably am but difficult with fluctuations. Our own hormones will carry on regardless won’t they. I just never would have thought the ovaries could push out such high levels of Estrogen, they really are fighting to survive, but I’ve had enough now.
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I did a lot of reading around in my desperation last week and the estrogen doses in Qlaira and Zoely aren't directly comparable to other Pills in terms of mg and mcg because of the difference in estrogen types. I did a LOT of searching to try and find an equivalent and couldn't - it seems like answers vary, I'll spare you all sharing links of the different estimations I found - but what seems for certain is that the ethinyl estrogen contained in normal Pills is significantly stronger than the natural form of estriadol in Zoely and Qlaira (which is why you have less side effects with them). The dose in Zoely and Qlaire clearly works fine for a lot of people but my own situation has been so severe that I need something that will shut them off entirely. Another member on here in another thread helpfully told me that Nick Panay (a very experienced gynae in London) said that you need a minimum of 30mg of natural estriadol to totally suppress your own hormones (Zoely contains 1.5mg).
Crispy you seem to have done just as much research as me on all the Progestins etc! ;D I also saw that the second gen ones have less risk, I only went for a 4th gen one in Yasmin because I remember the Microgynon rage!
Floo I really would recommend trying a contraceptive Pill that has at least 30mg of ethinyl estriadol in it to see if that helps (though as we've said in this thread a lot, it can take at least 3 months). Are the docs absolutely sure that's not an option for you because of your age? x
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God it's so confusing!! So Qlaira is low dose estrogen compared to the more mainstream pills?
I'm in Nick Pannay's clinic so will ask next time I speak to my gynae as I want to know about topping up with estrogel (but now I'm even more confused as 2 pumps of estrogel = 1.5mg of estrodiol) as I'm defo getting estrogen spikes (really hear you Floo, on the last sets of bloods I had done on my high histamine days (day 12 to day 14) my estrogen was 400 to 600 points over the top of the range, I truly felt crap!!) but I'm also getting days of clearly low estrogen, I can just tell by my skin and how I feel.
I had hoped that Qlaira would shut the whole shooting match down, but sounds like it doesn't Gilla...? That said, not complaining, feeling pretty good, period is due today and I just have mild vibrations and jitters compared to the usual feeling like I'm dying and shaking so badly I can't hold a pen ... progress!
Reb
x
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I'm feeling dreadful today. Not my mood anymore, which has dominated for the last 8 weeks. But today I'm woozy with a bit of dizzy and nausea... Prob my own estrogen still spiking.
Oh yes gilla. I've done a heck of a lot of searching. To be honest, I'm past caring about the safety profile of a pill, I just want one that works, but I suspect for floo, being 53 might make it more of a concern. I dont think I've ever tried a 4th gen progesterone. I actually think a lot of my dizzy/woozy stuff is the estrogen anyway...
So, floo. I'm slightly confused. If the specialist wanted to top your low dose pill up with hrt... Why not just try a higher dose pill????!! Am I missing something??? At least with the pill the quantities are all balanced etc...
X
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RedJT, sorry forgot to say that I had my ferritin done twice now and all fine. Thyroid, b12 etc checked.
My specialist wanted me to add in some sandrena to the Lenzetto because she thought I wasn’t absorbing because my symptoms didn’t change whether on 1 spray or more over the last 3 months but I’m trying to prove that I am absorbing the Lenzetto because she talked about the implant so I really need to work it out. I don’t think the implant is the answer.
These are my bloods done last week that I posted on another thread.
1161 pmol afternoon taken from hand
1656 pmol mid morning taken from the hand
5283 pmol afternoon taken from the arm
1744 pmol mid morning taken from the hand
2834 pmol afternoon taken from the hand
The spikes are huge from my own Estrogen and the first blood result of 1161 is more normal but I don’t know how much of that is the Lenzetto, the way I can work that out is to do another test on a morning before I add the hrt perhaps but then my own hormones may be spiking at that time. I want to prove is not an absorption issue before I go back to them. Minefield.
I did ask about the higher dose pill but she said no and there are options but since then the option was the implant but that’s for non absorption problems which I don’t think I have, plus if the Lenzetto isn’t working and it’s my own hormones causing the problem I’m not sure what I can do, I think I’m going to suffer until it stops.
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That's good on your ferritin.
Sorry for being thick, but how are you testing, is this a blood draw?
Reb
x
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Crispychick I’m guessing because the risk is greater, she said the hrt is so low dose in comparison and she didn’t mind adding to low dose pill I’m going to try and work out if I’m absorbing the Lenzetto then go back because at the moment I have no quality of life, I’m existing like the rest of you and desperate to find a solution, I think about nothing else. I’m having all the usual symptoms severely at times and the flushes and sweats came back when I went up to 2 sprays when still on eloine. Part of me wants to stop and start again but I’m scared but then it would only be for a few days to reset, I don’t know.
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RedJT I went to the local Nuffield it only a mile away from me.
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Reb I'm going purely on what I've been told and what I've found while researching but I haven't spoken to a gynae yet (that should be early April) so please don't take my word as gospel! Sometimes info can be shared that has been passed on and passed on - a bit like chinese whispers! In my searching I also found stories of ladies who have done really well, specifically on Qlaira more than Zoely - not sure why that would be, perhaps something to do with the phasing. So definitely go by how you're feeling and not anything I say ;D
Would love to hear what Nick Panay actually says on what level of hormones in the Pill are needed to totally suppress your own hormones!
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Thanks both
Floo, thanks, I usually use Blue Horizons but their sex hormone tests are so ridiculously expensive I haven't bothered (you buy through them but then book the draw at a Spire hospital) that said I have a Nuffield just up the road, will look, as I'd love to know what's going on on my wonky days also so if they do a cheaper direct booking service, that'd be handy.
Gilla, no worries, I've learned more on the internet than from any doctor. Sorry, just to clarify then, is Qlaira a low estrogen pill compared the others? Just trying to get it clear in my head. Exact amounts doesn't matter, just generally speaking? But if it is then that would explain why docs are allowing women to top up the estrogen (I'm on Qlaira specifically for the dienogest, secondly because it's natural estrogen) but I'm still learning about sex hormones.
Also, just chucking this out there, I have histamine issues (much improved lately with iron infusion and again this last month being on the pill - progesterone is mast cell stabilising) but estrogen and histamine go around on a loop (histamine tells the ovaries to make more estrogen, estrogen tells the mast cells to release more histamine) - my gynae reckons 25% of the women she sees have this issue. I dont' think I've ever felt so ill as when this was really out of control. Might be something to eliminate if you are feeling really awful.
Right, I really must do some work and stop googling sex hormones!!!
Reb
x
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It’s interesting the histamine thing, I need to look more into. Thanks RebJT.
Thank you to all you ladies, it helps to talk to you as you are going through the same. It can feel very lonely.
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Oh for goodness sake!!! I'm now on my third bout of indigestion in a week. When on no pill I got one bout a month a few days before my period.
When on the mini pill I had it so bad I had an endoscopy and was on drugs for it. Got off the drugs in Sept... No major issues.
8 weeks into this pill and it's back.... Grrrr. These hormones are torturing me!!!!!
Sorry. Just needed a rant!!!
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Its awful CrispyChick just another symptom to add to the long long list.
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I know this is absolutely muddying the waters, but what I’m doing seems to be working. I’m using a Mirena and Estrogel. I’ve tried all doses of Estrogel from zero to 4 pumps (the 4 pumps was with the intention of switching my own hormones off). I’m 44 and several FSH tests have declared me to be post-menopausal, but because of taking HRT I can’t “officially” be 1 year bleed-freee (let alone 2!). I’m surprised to find that I feel better on the lower dose of Estrogel. So many people here say oh you’re young so with early menopause you need more estrogen. I don’t think that’s true across the board. I think many of my awful symptoms before diagnosis (I also had every test under the sun), in retrospect, were from high estrogen rather than low. I did have bouts of low estrogen when peri menopausal (vaginal dryness and painful sex) but they were followed by high estrogen symptoms. The classic roller coaster.
I’m now taking the approach of working with what my body is doing rather than fighting against it. The Mirena covers the progesterone side so I’m free to play with the estrogen side. I really am surprised to find that for me less is more. (Lower weight, less hunger, less bloat, more sleep, less feeling on edge.) When I have days where I’m feeling jittery, then I’ve stopped for a couple of days. The histamine info has been helpful and rings true with me! Of course this means occasional spotting but I’ll take it.
Also worth noting, I had stopped my sertraline because I felt I was being overserved. Feeling jittery and like a box of frogs. In retrospect, I think it was too much estrogen. I can relate to all of the awful, awful mood instability, rage and irritability that you’ve experienced as well. I didn’t want to have to go back to sertraline but my mental health, work and family life were really suffering, and I know the drug works for me. I think I’ll be on it for life at this point. And that’s okay—I’m much more pleasant and I like myself so much more on it.
Oh also because I’ve had vaginal dryness before with the Mirena, I use a local treatment about once a week (Premarin cream; I’m in Canada). Even if I don’t have any estrogel, I can still use the local cream.
I was in such a rush to get on HRT with my early menopause diagnosis but it’s taken me 2 years to realize all this. Trial and error takes ages!
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Hi Shannonplussed
I have read on here a few times where ladies have had worsening of symptoms when they increased the dose of Estrogen, so it’s interesting to hear you say it too. I keep thinking the same which is why I think about stopping and starting again but I’m too scared so I have dropped my dose instead and I will wait a few weeks and see if there’s any change. It’s the hot flushes and sweats that are confusing me because they appeared when I went up to 2 sprays and were even worse on 4 sprays, it may be a coincidence though and I may not even be absorbing the spray. It’s so confusing I have all the symptoms of low Estrogen.
It’s great to hear that you worked it out after lots of trial and error.
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Hi Girls
Day 1 of pack two and I have a 5 out of 5 level of histamine today, which I think is my own estrogen spiking. I've read your posts elsewhere Shannon and think you are on to something, the received wisdom in gynaecology is women our age complaining of symptoms must be suffering low estogen (and I'd agree I am at some points in my cycle) but what depletes first in women our age is progesterone, so part of the issue is we have too much estrogen *relative to progresterone* ie estrogen dominance. I know this through testing that my worst histamine days are my high estrogen days, and once you are in that washing machine it gets nasty really quickly! We also have estrogen spikes as the ovaries go through the death rattle of failing fertility. There's a canadian gynae who writes about this (but I am not sure she's right on the cure) that might interest folks: https://www.cemcor.ubc.ca/resources/life-phases/perimenopause
I've always thought I was progesterone sensitive, or intolerant as I've never get on with phased utrogestan (and felt dreadful on the mini pill etc) but after having had a really good month (relatively speaking) on Qlaira, which is 23 days of prog, I'm starting to wonder whether what the issue is the DROPS in progesterone, and whether I do better on a steady dose. My other option with all this was Jaydess (mini mirena) but I was too scared to try because a) I've never had kids and I had an agonising attempted mirena fitting years ago when I screamed the practice down and nearly crushed the bones in the nurse's hand - it was so painful they had to give up (!!) and b) fear about progesterone sensitivity and lack of control on stopping it if it didn't suit me.
However, last month at period start was better than this one (I have cheated a bit on my low histamine diet this month as I've felt so much better so that probably didn't help) and I'm wondering if it's because I've just had two days of estrogen only pills, and two days of placebo pills, causing a steep drop in progesterone? I'm thinking I might take Qlaira back to back and skip the dummy pills, as my 'vibrations' today (as I call them) are really bad. Progesterone is mast cell calming, estrogen is mast cell aggravating.
It's so confusing, and I wish I could know what's going on in my body, as it all feels like guess work sometimes. Anyway, despite feeling worse than last month at day 28, I'm feeling no worse than I usually do so that's a blessing so will plough on with pack two. Oh and the five pounds I've gained has come off again, so does look like that was water weight, so I'm pleased about that. I've also had virtually no bleed at pack end (spotted through the month, hoping that'll taper off) so I'm also not flushing lots of lovely iron down the loo like I normally do either, which is a miracle!
Reb
x
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Reb just to say I totally agree with you on the "it feels like guess work". I feel so strongly after the last 12 months that women should be able to test what their hormone levels are in an easily, accessible way. Much like a diabetic can easily test their blood sugar, or you can test your blood pressure. The blood tests that even the best gynaes do only show you one moment in time, they aren't showing the fluctuations at the root of the problem in Peri. When I mentioned this to the "menopause expert" I paid to see, she replied "women's hormones fluctuate all the time, that's just normal" and I felt very dismissed. At the very least if we were able to test our hormones daily ourselves, we'd be able to count them out as the cause!
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Gilla
If this was happening to men, they'd have figured this out already!! It's why there's still no male pill, too many side effects (haha). I totally agree, a little monitor would be a god send as then at least you could learn your symptoms. My symptoms are cyclical, day 14 and just before and as my period starts are the worst. First two weeks of cycle I feel great, second two weeks not so great. If I knew what was causing what, that'd go a long way to 'cracking the code' as it were. You'd know your target levels where you feel good, and your ratios. It's not rocket science.
The reason I go without other things and go private is I'm simply not prepared to be spoken to like that anymore. Plus I lived in Greece for a long time, when I explained to friends there that you have to get around a paltry family doctor before you can have any specialist care, they were absolutely appalled, it's a ridiculous system. I had very very very serious thyroid disease, it went undiagnosed for ten years (they truly very nearly killed me) and then the cure was even worse. Oh and then they blamed me, the LIES they put on my notes!! The last decade, I'm only not an invalid as I just decided these barbarians weren't in charge of my health any more. It's a disgrace really. It's not a 'health' service, it's a sickness service. Anyway, rant over ..
I just wish they'd hurry up and develop one of those Star Trek scanners, or like they have on the film 'Aliens' - you just hop in and it scans your whole system, knows your DNA and figures it out!! Alas, still science fiction ...
PS do you know, is Qlaira 'low dose' estrogen compared to other pills, from your trawl the other day? Not specifics, just roughly?
Ta
Reb
x
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Hi ladies, just came across this supply notification on contraceptives, including Qlaira.
https://cached.offlinehbpl.hbpl.co.uk/NewsAttachments/2MM/MSN_2020_043_U3-Oral-Contraceptive-tablets.pdf
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Hi Reb, I've got a random question for you since you know all about histamine.
So, I've akways been on fexofenadine for allergic rhinitis. But I tried coming off it when I had my initial dizziness etc... Which I now know was hormones.
However, from May - Oct I suffered a weird nose feeling most days, that often triggered a headache. It was a feeling like someone had punched me deep behind my nose. Anyway, I eventually concluded it was the steroid nose spray which I was taking for my allergies that was also causing it.
I also stopped my pill trial around the same time.
Fast forward 3 months of no pill, was OK in nose dept and 2 months of microgynon - no problem. Until now!!! Had migraine last night and today and now I am left with the nose feeling.
Could the pill be causing it??? A quick Google tells, me the pill can cause congestion and also thickens nose mucus...
I can't for the life of me remember when I last took my antihistamines. I was avoiding them as they're known to dry your nose and the feeling is quite dry.
Do you think the pill could be increasing my histamine??? I have plenty fexofenadine in the cupboard, but I don't want to make my nose worse. Currently have few allergic symptoms... So not needing it for that...
Thanks so much x
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Ah. Scrap that. I just found my old diary entries. I stopped the antihistamines in June to try and deal with the nose issue...
Appreciate your view on whether pill increases histamine though??? It certainly feels like the combined pill causes this nose issue for me, which would mean it's the estrogen. As I was OK on the mini pill, in the nose respect!
Never ending...
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Estrogen could cause a histamine issue or aggravate one, as estrogen tells the mast cells to realease more histamine, and histamine tells your ovaries to make more estrogen, causing the wheel of death. Obvs in peri we are getting estrogen surges anyway, and that seems to be going on for you along with taking the pill ...
I had to come off hormones, sort the histamine and start again. Although as I said the other day, there's also a link with iron and histamine and I've had - overall - a massive improvement in histamine symptoms and severity since the iron infusion.
If you google link between estrogen and histamine, you should find some useful stuff. That said progesterone is mast cells stabilising, so in theory should calm things down.
I've been thinking about it today, I always feel rubbish day 28 / day 1 so today is no exception, but I had been sooooo much better this last month overall, so I think it's the placebo pill days and the drop in hormones that's also part of it for me, going to try back to back this month if gynae says it's OK.
Reb
x
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Reb I have literally had the Star Trek scanner thought to myself sooooo many times throughout out all of this!
That sounds awful over your thyroid, thank God you managed to get proper treatment in the end!
On Qlairna, yes - my understanding is that whilst it's not low when you look at the mg vs other pills, in terms of strength ethinyl estriadol is significantly stronger than either estridaol valerate (Qlaira) or estriadol hemihydrate (Zoely). Here was one link I found:
https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00016348209156956
and here's an excerpt from a similar paper which quotes the above:
"Measurement of a highly estrogen-inducible plasma protein (the pregnancy zone protein/pregnancy-associated alpha 2-globulin (PZP/PAα2 G)) in postmenopausal women suggests that ethinyl estradiol has a potency 500 times more than 17-β estradiol and 650 times more than estradiol valerate (8). Estimates from the pharmaceutical company (Solvay Healthcare Ltd – personal communication), however, suggest that 1 mcg ethinyl estradiol is equivalent to 100–250 mcg 17-β estradiol. "
17-B estriadol is another name for estriadol hemihydrate (Zoely) I believe.
I would also back this up personally that since starting Yasmin my boobs have gone back to being swollen and painful which is my classic estrogen dominance symptom. It's not as bad as when I started Zoely or HRT at first, but it's definitely there since switching to Yasmin, so there must be an increase in Estrogen that's happened.
Hope this helps - again it's just what I've found and someone like Nick Panay may say differently... xx
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Thanks Gilla
How are you getting on apart from the sore boobs? Is your rationale that you want to shut your own hormones down and need a bigger / more potent dose of hormones to do it? Be interested to hear how you get on, as my hormones are obvs still surging after the jittery couple of days I've had.
And thanks, women's healthcare makes me very angry, it's not just that it's not good enough, we're not believed, and we're so often written off as 'emotional' when in fact we are suffering and ill. This is why I am extremely careful what I tell my doctor, once you have anything that suggests you are an hysteric or vexatious on your notes, forget it. That said, here and there I've met some lovely doctors who've gone the extra mile. Private doesn't mean better either, I just tend to do my research. I can attest that Nick Panay's name on a letterhead focuses a few minds at the GP practice!! Lol. My sis in law now sees his team too, she had a surgical meno after a total hysterectomy following four caesarians and then adhesions and all sorts of misery. Her NHS gynae put her on two pumps of estrogel!! She was 42 with five young kids. His answer to her MIA libido, weight gain and exhaustion? Get your husband to take you out for a nice dinner. She should have the letter from Mr Panay's team framed, suffice to say she's now on 6 - 8 pumps and some testosterone! All on the NHS :-) They properly jumped to attention (although her GP did ring her and shout for ten minutes about going private, and then rang her back and apologised and wrote the script!).
And thanks, that's super helpful, that makes sense, that explains why Qlaira and Zoely are Mg and the others are Mcg, all becomes clear. It also suggests I probably wasn't imaginging it when I thought I'd read you could top up Qlaira and Zoely with estrogel, makes sense now too!
Let us know how you go with Yasmin, although I think my doc's logic for Qlaira was the dienogest to cut the bleeding, and the milder estrogen because of my histamine sensitivity (I've spotted this month but had no bleed at pack end, which with my iron woes is very good news, will scan again in a couple of months, but also hoping my endometrium is back to being negligible too) but I don't know whether it's strong enough to shut down my fluctuating hormones and sometimes my symptoms are so severe, I'd love for my renegade ovaries to be put to sleep!
Reb
x
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I'm fine so far with Yasmin - feel mildly yucky/sicky/tired, but it's mild. Certainly not what I recall it being like when I tried it in my 30s so it looks like Crispy is right about it being easier to switch from one Pill to another than start anew. Too early to tell if it helps with the original problem - I think I'll need to give it a couple of months.
Yes on my rationale - I don't understand the physiology of why (no one seems to be able to tell me) but my gut sense is that my body has become very sensitive to any drops in estrogen. Whether that's because it is fluctuating erratically or whether somehow my body has just become super sensitive to fluctuations, I don't really know or understand. My problems match the cycle that you've described exactly - all my symptoms were from day 21 to day 28, always. Then over the space of 6 months it grew to be from day 14 until day 1, so I was literally living half my life with horrific insomnia and night sweats. Then the first two weeks of every cycle I was totally fine - slept like a log, no night sweats, always great. It took me a year to make the connection and I'm so thankful I had always tracked my symptoms on my calendar so I was able to look back and realise (despite being told repeatedly by doctors that I was too young at 41 for "menopause" and that my hormones were fine).
It seems like some people are fine with the hormone "topping up" functionality of either HRT or Zoely/Qlaira, but whatever is going on with me has been so bad that I need to shut my own hormones off totally.
OMG that is awful about your sister in law!! What a joke. It makes me so angry how women (especially ones still in their 40s) are treated over Perimenopause. I would love to see Nick Panay but I think there's a 6 month waiting list :(
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Hi ladies,
Well I did another blood test yesterday. I planned an doing it on a day when I was really ill and terrified so it was really difficult going, my husband took me, it’s 1/2 mile from my house so I managed it but it was awful but so glad I did as the results really confirmed what I thought which is the depression / terror set in when my hormones drop too low for me. The Estrogen level was 457pmol, my fluctuations are extreme, I feel ill every day but to varying degrees, with spikes which were in the thousands to the dips like yesterday.
We can’t win I don’t think unless we can stop the fluctuations.
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Hi ladies.
Glad to hear things are manageable for you Gilla. Yip, I do think you'll have a fair level of hormones in your body, but you're clearly increasing the estrogen now.
Reb, I totally recommend skipping the breaks, I can get significant mood changes etc after missing 1 pill.
So that's me week 9bof microgynon complete. I'm happy (for the first time) to report that my anger is abating. Yay!!! And I no longer seem to feel depressed in late afternoon. Woo hoo.
However, maybe with that clearing I focus on other things, but I've felt pretty dreadful. I'll discount last week as I'm non the wiser if it was covid jab side affects... But this week. Not good. I've felt nauseous and off. Had my first microgynon migraine yesterday and my nose now has the continuous blocked/punched behind the nose feeling... Which I had all summer.
Today I feel dreadfully fatigued avd a bit off... With the nose feeling.
So, I'm actually due nose surgery, so I called up to find out about my wait time as I would've had itast year ordinarily. Anyway, whilst I was on, I asked for my last iron readings. These were in June 2019.
She said iron was 18. I asked about ferritin. She said ferritin was 29.
So... I've read your article Reb and had a quick Google. Seems pretty low yeah???? Perhaps she misread the iron one. How do I sort it myself??? How was yours identified if not by gp???
Many thanks, this forum is so helpful xx
P. S I'll just add that this was 1 1/2 years ago, at the same time my vit d level was found to be low avd I was told my b12 was normal. I had a very sore tongue. When I got my b12 level avd googled I found I was at the very bottom of an extensive range. Started supplenting. Never had sore tongue since. This was also the summer when I kept getting lightheaded and nearly fainting. This was all blamed on my low blood pressure...
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Reb this is a bit off topic but you asked in an earlier message if I'd been tested for coeliac because of my tummy problems. I didn't pay much attention at the time but I found out a couple of days ago that a lot of the symptoms I'm having (not the hormonal symptoms like night sweats and insomnia - I mean other stuff) are classic coeliac symptoms. I'm waiting for an appointment with a doctor for a blood test but do you know anyone with it? I just wondered as you mentioned it. xx
Crispy I'm really sorry to hear you're not feeling great. Those iron readings definitely look low!! (I found my ferritin level int the end and it was 60 so I think I'm fine). Probably not connected but I've noticed that when I have my "episodes" of night sweats and insomnia I also get a blocked / punched nose feeling. I'm sleeping like an absolute log at the moment but this is what it's always like - and then suddenly something changes and I literally don't sleep for a week!
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Thanks Gilla. I've started an iron supplement and will maybe ask for new blood tests.
I think you're right to have the celiac test... However I went down that route... Convinced myself that's what was wrong with me. I had the test (negative) but also convinced them to give me the endoscopy, as the blood test is not always accurate. I was negative!
I've eaten gluten free for a year, as you can be non celiac gluten sensitive... No change. So I've now sacked it off...in fact the lack of fibre was more problematic for me.
I should add, my sister is celiac.
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Thanks for the info Crispy. Today has not been good... the morning fatigue that I've had for the last few days has been intense today - slept for 9 hours, got up for 2 hours then had to go back to sleep for another hour. Then tried to do a bit of something in the garden but couldn't and came back in to sleep AGAIN. It's not normal-level tiredness - it feels like I'm wading through treacle. Too tired to even watch TV! I have no idea of this is side effects from starting Yasmin or connected to my digestion problems which are even worse than when they started in early December. The irony of being here complaining of sleeping too much is not lost on me :)
Have an appointment with my doctor tomorrow to discuss getting celiac test. I don't think this is connected to the insomnia and night sweats thing, it feels separate. I was just interested to know what symptoms celiacs have - i have quite a few of the text book ones but not stomach pain for example
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Oh Gilla... This is just sooo difficult. I feel your pain.
Yes, the sleep/tiredness is ironic for you. And, because you're sleeping like a log... Stick with it... I've had many treacle days and like I've said before I do renrmber bad tiredness on starting pills previously (I know this will be on a different level, but the pill is giving us hormones like pregnancy... Our bodies are older!)
Take some caffeine tablets if you need to. If everything else is OK...
Good call on the celiac test if your digestion probs are getting worse!!!
I'm having a terrible time again. Cavt believe I've lost the raging and now hog the migraines. Second this week (I think it's connected to the nose feeling). I've just taken a triptan.
I've looked through my diary abc had severe migraines with gederal last year, big actually have suffered from migraines on all these pills, but aldi had them dreadfully on 3 months of nothing!!! So I'm not coming off for this...doc mentioned before daily preventative meds... So might need to try that... Although they don't look appealing!!!
I just can't work out his thd first 8 weeks on micro, I had no headaches at all. Weird.
Off to sleep this one off x
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Have you really had treacle days? That makes me feel slightly better in that I can rationalise side effects and know they are temporary. Bloody hell the fatigue is all consuming! And also I can't stop eating.
That's so strange on the migraines. It's so hard to know if it's hormonal or being triggered by something else. Would you consider looking into proper migraine preventative treatment? I think there are a few options...
Hope the sleep has helped. I've had two migraines in my life before and they were horrendous. Once you've had a migraine once you know it. X
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Hi Gilla
Treacle days? Yes, absolutely. I've had quite a few with my start up of microgynon. In fact, I think that's what put iron in my mind.
Honestly, if you've gone from no sleep, to wavt to sleep all the time... I thi k this is good. It's a change!!! Try and give it the full month to see what happens.
You told me to stick with the ragey moods and depression. You were right!!! But at the time it was hell.
So, I've taken my triptan abc had a snooze. Not much better. This is my classic going round in circles - is it migraines? Is it my sinuses? Is it anything to do with my hormones???
My nose is clicking and feels dry and stuffy behind the bridge. I've started my strong antihistamines and taken a decongestant to see what's what. I just can't stand the thought of going bsck to daily headaches.
I swapped pills, last May because of this same thing... And it never resolved. As my husband just pointed out... It has got warmer. Hopefully it's a seperate issue from the hormones... I'll call my doc next week and push about my ENT surgery...
Hope u have a good sleep and less treacle tomorrow. 😁👍 You can do this...
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Morning Ladies
Really hoping Madame Ovary might be along to offer me some reassurance. After having nigh on a brilliant month (all things considered) on Qlaira, I got to the end of the packet. i really thought I was going to struggle with the progesterone but that doesn't seem to have been the case. However, I think coming to the end of hte prog pills, then having 2 days E only, 2 days sugar pills, and then starting the pack on two days E only has perhaps created a steep drop in prog, but I'm guessing. I also feel like I often to when my E is too high.
Anyway, no withdrawal bleed despite feeling like I might get one. Instead I am unbelievably jittery (Madame Ovary and I call these the vibrations!), wobbly, emotional, shaky - it's like nails down a blackboard on the inside. I feel foggy, shaky (metaphorically and I am literally shaking, like a high frequency vibration all over), insecure, emotional and just goddamn ill. Not sure what to think, as these are the very symptoms (along with the flooding periods, so it's a blessed relief that I at least haven't had one of them) that caused me to seek help in the first place and I just wish i knew what was going on. Could it be my own hormones under neath the Qlaira. Normallly this stops with the onset of my period, but obviously not had a period.
Just looking for some hope that this gets better? Good news, I've lost the weight I gained, and until this wobble, I had been feeling significantly better. Just hoping this passes.
Reb
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Hi Reb
I'm not sure if I can help you really, other than to say I'm really keen on sticking to a pill with continuous doses of both e and p... To avoid any changes. I'd defo suggest no break. But it seems qlaira has estrogen only days too 🤔
As you know from my microgynon hell, I'm at week 9 and still not fully settled... So it defo does take time. I've had days like you describe over the last 9 weeks... And thats on a constant dose.
I'm on nose and headache hell at present. No idea if the pill makes this worse, but I'm determined not to stop it, so they'll havd to sort my nose 😂.
Any thoughts on my iron. Iron was 18 and ferritin was 29? Xx
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Hi Reb - I don't have much wisdom to offer other than I agree it does sound like the most likely cause could be the sudden drop in Progesterone. As Crispy says that's part of why I didn't want to go for a phased Pill, but then I have also been told that these fluctuations are perfectly normal/natural so in theory shouldn't be a problem. Sending you some good vibes, it sounds awful. I'm taking the fact that Madame O hasn't been here in a while as a very positive sign :)
xx
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Sorry I haven't been on here for a while. Just trying to catch up.
Gilla I'm sorry Zoely didn't work for you and Yasmin sounds like it's got its own drawbacks. Maybe the fatigue is your body catching up after being so sleep deprived for so long.
Reb, sorry to hear you've been jittery on Qlaira. I'd need to check my symptom diary but I think I did have a few blips like this in the first month or 2. I don't get this anymore though. My only problem is that I still seem to wake up around 4am every morning and I feel very tired.
Unless it's unbearable, I would stick with it as my experience is that things have continued to improve over time. Could you skip the placebo pills to shorten that progesterone drop?
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Hello all
Thanks so much for the replies, God I feel wired to the moon but reassured to hear this calms down. I am sticking with it, but I have high cortisol sort of adrenaline rushes (like someone walked over my grave feeling when my hairs stand on end, it's like foil on your fillings, but inside your body if that makes sense) and that tight as a piano wire feeling in my body, still shaking and vibrating and I'm an insecure mess. Doesn't help that my partner's ex has kicked off once again this weekend over shared custody, really really vile stuff with me as the target again (all nonsense, but there's a little kid in the middle of this) and he and I have argued as the boundaries are all over the place as she just bulldozes him, and he's punch drunk with it, and she scares the beejaysus out of me, so that hasn't helped my equilibrium (really couldn't have been a worst weekend for it, last weekend I was Dalai Lama like in my zenlike calm and bloody poise!). My hands are shaking and I just feel 'revved' - hard to explain if you haven 't experienced it, which I know you have Madame O, why don't doctors know what this is?? Defo going back to back. I think having a bleed would have helped, as normally I'm like this just before my period, and obviously no relief there this time (telling myself it's worth it for hanging onto my iron).
Crispy, you are in absolute iron deficiency (ferritin under 30), serum iron is a volatile number (it varies day to day, but is still a bit low) but your storage iron is dreadful and this will make you anxious, emotional, shaky, ragey, you name it. See here for list of symptoms https://www.oatext.com/iron-deficiency-without-anemia-common-important-neglected.php Do you know your Hb and RBC and how's your folate, MCH, MCV etc? Really, really, really urge you to get on top of that, maybe a gentle iron (solgar do one that's OK if your gut can handle it, 20mg per tab) you want to be taking up to 200mg ELEMENTAL iron a day, with vit c, in split doses if that's easier, best in the morning if you can manage it. Even better if you can tolerate fumerate it's better absorbed (many can't handle the side effects, especially the stomach side effects), again take 200mg ELEMENTAL iron, I think there's 65mg per tablet, so you need at least three. Honestly, for all the crappy symptoms this weekend, overall I am a different woman with my iron fixed. I'd be a basket case with a ferritin of 29!! I am really symptomatic with a ferritin anywhere south of 100. Hb must always be over 127, ideally over 130. I know I'm on a soapbox, but I've been hospitalised twice with horrible panic like anxiety and skipping beats, I've done the round of cardiologists etc, all baffled, it was my bloody iron! It's wrecked my life for at least a decade, I feel very passionately women deserve better care.
Thanks all, will keep you posted, I just need this stretched tight to quivering point feeling to calm down!!
Reb
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Hi ladies,
Well I did another blood test yesterday. I planned an doing it on a day when I was really ill and terrified so it was really difficult going, my husband took me, it’s 1/2 mile from my house so I managed it but it was awful but so glad I did as the results really confirmed what I thought which is the depression / terror set in when my hormones drop too low for me. The Estrogen level was 457pmol, my fluctuations are extreme, I feel ill every day but to varying degrees, with spikes which were in the thousands to the dips like yesterday.
We can’t win I don’t think unless we can stop the fluctuations.
Floo, sorry I missed this. You poor, poor thing, that sounds horrific. And well done for going and proving your theory, I don't know whether it helps you, but if I understand what is going on, I can cope so much better with symptoms as in my head I have a logical framework. It's the worry and wondering that drives me potty. I really hope you can find a solution that gives you some relief. It's so crap isn't it, and doubly worse because nobody really takes us seriously. I keep thinking, logic dictates there's an answer, there HAS to be. That keeps me going on the crap days. There's an answer for you too, I'm sure. Keep on trucking and take care of yourself. Let us know how you are.
xx
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Reb, I'm sorry your feeling it so bad at the moment. Take heart from what madame ovary is saying... It will get better!!!
Thanks so nuch for the info on iron. I can see that ferritin less than 30 is considered low... In yet it was never mentioned to me 🙄. I'm going to ask for new bloods as that was 20 months ago.
I can see the solar tablets - they get good re iews for being easy on stomach. So I'm happy to take them. They are 20mg...but fro what your saying I need 200mg a day... But I'm guessing the 20 will help, but just take longer to get there...?
I am incredibly fatigued today. Treacle day Gilla...
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Crispy
Defo get new tests, especially full blood count and your ferritn (a full iron panel would be good, including your transferrin saturation). And no it's incredibly poorly understood, I'd save your breath debating this with your GP, they won't help you (the specialists at the iron clinic said as much, NHS pathway for iron is woeful, not worth an adversarial tussle with your doctor, just sort yourself out). And sorry not clear, you need to take at least 200mg of elemental iron a day to correct iron deficiency. So with solgar that would mean 10 capsules (with ferrous fumerate at 65mg elemental iron per tablet, that'd mean 3 tablets a day). Build up to that in split doses, until you can tolerate 5 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon (iron isn't absorbed well at night, when our hepcidin levels rise). Take with a good dollop of vit C with each dose, say 1000mg, this aids absorption. You might want to think about correcting any deficiency of folate too, as I know you were low I think in Vit D, and B12 and these issues travel in a pack, if you have one, chances are you have them all (they are your blood builders).
Really important to get your head around this yourself and not to rely on a GP to do it for you - they simply won't (the paper I posted up thread is vital reading imho) but the specialist at the iron clinic told me any woman with a ferritin under 100 and an Hb under 127 will be unwell and symptomatic. I'm a changed woman since I sorted this out (despite the absolute hellish symptoms the last few days).
Reb
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Thanks RebJT we have to keep going in the hope of finding a solution.
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Thanks Reb
I am sooo fatigued and foggy today. I've ordered the solgar iron. I already have the better you spray. So I figure I could take both, giving me 30mg a day to start. I've also ordered vit c, as you point out, everything says to help absorbtion.
I've made gp appointment. Got to wait a month. I'll ask for bloods then, hopefully the 30mg a day will help - my bloods will show either way.
I don't want to take too high a level without new bloods. My fatigue could be the microgynon or my sinuses... 😬. But obviously my ferittin was low before, so it might help. I've got a plan. I like a plan 😁.
How are you feeling now??
Gilla, how are you doing on yasmin???
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Hey good stuff
Good idea to get tested but you do sound (and have sounded since we started conversing) like a woman with an iron problem. Don't take what your GP says too seriously when you get your results, do your own research, The Iron Clinic have some good resources on their website too. I feel dreadful, so wired and over revved. I wish I knew what was causing it, is it too much of my own estrogen, is it a build up of progesterone, is it just the ups and downs of trying a new pill and I need to grit my teeth, is it progesterone intolerance??? WTAF is going on? I hate this, so badly, it's ruining my life.
I very seriously need to work, I am so skint and in such a pickle. Doesn't help that my partner's ex has gone beserk (again) and I'm in her sights, for no reason whatsoever than she enjoys making him miserable, and he's grumpy and anxious too. So I'm anxious about that.
Reb
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Thanks Reb, yes I'll certainly research some more. I did read the notes on the iron clinic. Is that where you had your infusion??? I'm in Scotland so i do t think I'll be able to use them. But the solar tablets get good reviews!
So, let's see if we can help you. When you say so wired avd over revved do you mean jittery, shaky and anxious??? If so, I can tell you havd had horrific anxiety and jittery feelings since starting microgynon (it's the reason I stopped it at 6 weeks when trying it last year). However, that is now calming down. 9 weeks in...
I don't feel out of the woods yet, and I don't want to count my chickens, but as you know a lot of my early symptoms were horrific moods and low mood (the anxiety and jitters were terrible too, but more tolerable for me). I felt like giving up many a time... But everyone kept saying it should go... I've definitely turned a corner!!!! So 9 weeks is 3 full packs... I would've counted that as 3 months, but I'm not doing ;D.. I'm counting 12 weeks. Then some people say they didn't feel benefit until 4 months...
Keep going. Make a plan - no breaks. Go into month 2 knowing that this is just a blip. It might be a reaction to the prog or the estrogen, or your own hormones still kicking off... But ultimately it doesn't matter as long as it does bog off. Madameovary was around loads more in her first few months... She seems to have settled... You can do this!!!!
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Thanks love
I'm not anxious, it's like a drunk a thousand cups of coffee feeling, so I'm cranky because I feel jacked up to the moon, my resting heart rate is 96 and my BP is high. I'm stress intolerant and easily reactive, but not because of mood per se, but because I just feel so stressed I cant cope with any upset. It's like a taut, stressed, foil on your fillings feeling on the inside, I feel like I have high adrenaline. I also have high histamine (by my symptoms which I know very well by now) which says to me high estrogen. I feel more emotionally stable than yesterday, I just feel jacked up, not at rest, like I'm vibrating with tension. At pack end I felt like my period was about to start, and it didn't come. This jittery jacked up feeling kicked in at day 27. The continuous spotting has stopped, and now nothing (period normally relieves this build up of tension feeling).
By coincidence GP jsut rung as I'm in the queue for a consultation by phone to discuss Jaydess ( low dose coil), which I'm terrified about. Speaking to her tomorrow but not convinced she's going to have anything useful to say, they just quote studies don't they, most women don't gain weight, there's no evidence to suggest it causes low mood blah blah. I doubt a poxy GP is going to know much of any use about Qlaira either? I will try to park my cynicism and just see if she can explain.
Am I correct in thinking if this was progesterone intolerance, I'd have known about it before now ie) I woudln't have sailed through a month feeling pretty darn good if the issue was an intolerance to dienogest, or does that take a while to kick in? And actually, forgive me for being dim, what exactly does prog intolerance feel like anyway?
I know I'm getting whopping spikes of estrogen, as testing shows this, this is what is causing the histamine issue. The most logical explanation my foggy brain can come up with is Qlaira was buffering this by providing a prog counterbalance, which has plummetted at pack end? Sound plausible?
[She pauses to scream into a pillow at the unjust and wholly inadequate level of women's care, which is a bloody joke! WHY doesn't anyone know what this or frankly even bloody care in the medical profession???]
Reb
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Ah OK. I'm not sure about the ja ked up feeling then. The pill can increase BP though, so hopefully that's not too much of a prob.
I agree, if you were prog intolerant, I think you'd know about it sooner. You had a good first month. There's every chance you'll have a good second month once settles down again...
Jaydess is less prog than mirena... But that's all I know. With my experience of levengesteral in microgynon... I'm opting to stay clear. It's that control thing, like u say. But then, here we are suffering all sorts of side affects to get to the magic 3 months... Suppose there's no difference really... You can have it out at the 3 month point?!! They're defo meant to be good for bleeding issues. Got a friend had mirena for constant bleeding. She's fine now... But took a year to settle!!!!
Good luck...
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Jacked up, wired, on edge, nails on the blackboard inside, feeling like a box of frogs—this is high estrogen. For me. I also have a higher resting heart rate with a higher estrogen dosage.
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Hi Shannon
Thanks, yes I am thinking it's high estrogen, it's just worse than it normally is and going on for longer. I also have needling, stabbing pain in my boobs, I think that's estrogen too. I think skippnig my period at pack end has thrown me for a bit of a loop. Unsure what to do, think I might take my pill at bedtime as I always feel better in the mornings so perhaps the worst of it could wear off over night. Doesn't help I also take thyroid meds (I had my thyroid removed) and when I feel like this my thyroid meds feel too strong too, so I get a doubly jacked up feeling.
You've commented on my jaydess thread just now (thank you), I'm really wondering if continuous prog might be better, I just can't work out if I'm prog intolerance (people talk about this a lot but nobody really tells you what it is and how you tell if you've got it!). Is your experiment with the estogel plus mirena overriding your own oestrogen surges? I'm talking to the GP at 9am this morning, she's meant to be their HRT GP, although my cousin sees her, and doesn't seem to have performed any miracles!
Thanks
Reb
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Reb just a thought and I'm sure you've looked into it already - but it couldn't be anything to do with your cortisol levels? I'm trying to think what could raise your resting heart rate but not all the time... x
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Hi
Gilla, yes I think it is cortisol, that's how it feels. There's something called the 'progesterone steal' - in some people, and under stress, the body steals it to make cortisol. I feel so utterly unwell, I haven't even got dressed today, I've skipped even my thyroid meds, I feel like I've taken cocaine, just on the ceiling with jittery, jacked up, ramped up feelings. Not sure I can stick it out. I've emailed the gynae, and spoken to the GP, GP thinks that jaydess coil might be better as in theory local lower dose prog. I am not convinced! Gaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh! Make it stop! I haven't taken my pill today, was debating bed time, but not sure I can hack anymore. Why oh why don't doctors have any solutions?
Reb
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Oh Reb, it's so awful we dip in and out of torture!!!
Are u due to take prog as well as estrogen today??? If so, it might help.
I think steady dose is the way to go. If you decide on the jaydess you'll have no estrogen though, only your own dipping up and down... ???
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Hi RebJT, some information on ' pregnenolone steal'
https://www.zrtlab.com/blog/archive/reassessing-pregnenolone-steal/
Regarding cortisol; estrogen raises Cortison Binding Globuline (CBG) of transcortin.. CBG binds cortisol so there is less cortisol available for the body to use. When our estrogen levels go down our cortisol levels go up.
I'm sorry you feel so bad but I think CrispyChick is right, Jaydess will probably give you more ups and downs.
Alicess X
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Thanks
I didn't take my pill last night and I've woken this morning feeling a bit better, but histamine still incredibly high, I think it's high estrogen, which would gel with me being on the high estrogen days of Qlaira, and no period coming (my own estrogen rising) which normally resets this nightmare. Histamine and estrogen go around on a loop, one increasing the other, I think I've just tipped over my level of tolerance and flooded my 'histamine bucket' - partly my own fault as I was feeling so fab I cheated on my diet and had a bit of prosecco, curry and cheese etc last few weeks, which I usually strictly avoid as they are so high histamine. One other clue that it's estrogen, is despite feeling like death, I have nice skin, it's all plump, and I've dropped a bit of weight, which would suggest I'm awash with the youthful hormone!
Oddly I've been dropping weight and feeling massively over medicated on my thyroid meds too, this tends to happen when my adrenals goes beserk as well. Last few days have also felt like high cortisol (it's so confusing, I am guessing all the time) and that seemed to dissipate yesterday (usually take my pill in the morning, didn't take it) but the nails down a blackboard, jittery feelings remain, which tends to match my previous symptoms on estrogen (when I first started with Studd). He put me on tonnes of E to start with to shut down my cycle and give me a break. He was convinced I was suffering low estrogen. But without waiting for test results (E already extremely high on the days when I was complaining of crippling symptoms, I had three sets of tests over three months on symptomatic days, like Floo my E was at nearly 2,000 on those days), and I just collapsed in a flood of histamine. That's when I went to Panay's clinic to their gynae with an interest in histamine.
In happier news, I don't think it's the progesterone (well again I'm guessing, as why would it happen in week five, not before?) but everybody talks about progesterone intolerance, but nobody tells you what it is, what are the symptoms, does anyone know? I'm not depressed, fat, miserable, ragey, or anything, I just feel plugged into the mains.
Jaydess, I have a lovely private gynae who uses Jaydess off licence as HRT, so if I want estrogen (already have a massive stash of the stuff) she'll give it to me, so I'm not worried about being able to get a script, just unclear what I should be doing with it (and as above, worried about the histamine /estrogen thing). The thing that worries me with the coil is control, once it's in I've got to trust the idiots masquerading as my healthcare providers to take it out if I say it doesn't suit me, and my life flushing itself down the loo in the meantime.
This is what frustrates me, most of the women I'm reading here are really suffering in peri, why is the knowledge so scant? Surely, with millions of women trooping to the doctors, they should know by now how to help us? I'm about to lose my job if this doesn't get better, it's been going on for months now at this pitch, I'm freelance, I'm totally skint, I really, really, really need some relief. The worry about that is not helping.
Thanks all, know you understand. I am still extremely foggy and all over the place, so struggling to think logically or take in information. If you have any suggestions - or an idea of what's going on here for me, before I disappear up my own backside with confusion - would you mind just spelling it out for me, as I'm still unsure which way is up (and every single time I ask a doctor, they say, 'I don't know'!).
Reb
x
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Reb
I know your issues are different to mine - heavy blood loss being one of them???? So I can see why jaydess would be suggested. But, if you go down that route and use hrt estrogen, you'll just be topping up your own... Peaks and troughs included.
We're all trying the combined pill on this thread to stop these peaks and troughs. So, if you're not happy with qlaira because of the changes in dose and non prog days I think you'd be better on a flat steady dose of both, with no breaks. You could try zoley if you want to stick to bio identical estrogen. Or go for one of the mainstream high dose estradiol like gilla and I.
Unfortunately, I have to say, you're only at the 1 month mark. I'm now at week 9 of microgynon and still not settled. Plus, I've been trying different ones for 12 months! I now believe my symptoms were high estrogen. But I need the estrogen in my pill to override and shut down my own... Hopefully. At the one month mark I was dreadful.
Hope that helps x
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Crispy
Bless you, thanks, sorry I know I'm taking up a lot of oxygen on this thread atm. That's gone in, I understand, thank you! Yes very heavy blood loss, and increasingly short cycles (lack of prog I think) and thus more frequent heavy blood loss = anaemia = life wrecked. Stopping the bleeding is priority number one. Priority number two is gettng me off this roller coaster as my symptoms are cyclical - day 10 - 14 ish and day 27 - 1 ish (high histamine = high estrogen, the 'vibrations').
What you have said has cut through the fog (and panic) and makes total sense, thank you. I think my gynae is also suggesting jaydess because I react (histamine) to estrogen, and prog is mast cell calming, so there's some control of going gently with the E. But I totally see what you mean about the estrogel, it'd just add to my own fluctuations rather than shut them down?
Another of my gynae's patients on another thread is on a mirena, and contrary to all expectations done great, but the wheels fell off with the oestrogel (histamine). So, she's just about to put her on a combined pill on top of the coil, belt and braces I believe - to control the bleeding, to control the histamine, and then to shut down the fluctuations.
I need to speak to my gynae really (I just don't have £250 in loose change right now) but think maybe steady dose is the way to go, Zoely is lower dose E as I recall? I think this horrible blip at the moment is I've gone around on a loop of my own high estrogen at end of cycle (no period, no relief), coinciding with the high dose E days of Qlaira, with no prog to calm it the F down (prog is antihistamine) which has created the hideous cycle of estrogen -histamine - estrogen - histamine.
Perhaps I need a more aggressive anti histamine plan whilst I transition onto a pill that's strong enough to shut down the fluctuations. All I know is I need help, proper help with all this, it's so disheartening, the hope is worse than the the disappointment!! I get so excited that finally I've cracked it and then I end up back here. It's heartbreaking (which I know you all understand as well as I do).
Thanks again
Reb
x
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Reb
I think if you want something to control blood loss primarily (and qlaira has so far been successful at that?) but secondly you want to tame the surges... Then I think, as long as the pill stops the bleeds, you are better with pill.
As you've seen your friend needs the pill on top of thd coil.
It may be qlaira, with it's varying doses, is not the right one. Or it may just need more time.
I do think your own estrogen is going up and down for the first 3 months. I had the poisoned feeling with some of the estrogen dominant pills, and it may have been my own hormones causing the problem, rather the the pill itself. There will be 3 months of adjustment, or torture in some cases 😬.
Have you taken it today of stopped??? If you are going to swap, I'd do it immediately so you don't need to start at square one again...
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Hi
I haven't taken it again today as I'm at Defcon 4 - I was awake again at 5.30am utterly dithering with histamine and the shakes. The problem with histamine is it sends your estrogen climbing, and that triggers more histamine, which triggers more estrogen, it is a living hell that doesn't stop and it gets very nasty very fast. So it's not just my own ups and downs, it's when you add exogenous estrogen into the mix, it can get life wrecking very quickly (which is why Prof Studd didn't know what to do with me, I went from feeling better to absolutely utterly dreadful in about two weeks). Once you are at that point of mast cells on high alert, it's hard to even eat anything, as you start reacting to literally everything (your histamine bucket is brim full).
This is what I need to check, is there a way to get past that critical mass ... it might be she's suggesting jaydess (which was her preferred option) because of my reaction to estrogen. I need to speak to my gynae urgently, about to ask for an urgent appointment or phone call, as I just need to talk this through from the histamine point of view.
That said, your rationale makes more sense, as it'd shut down the whole nightmare, which sounds like blessed relief, I just need a really experienced opinion on whether it's realistic to expect that I could truly tough it out for three months to get there. I am honestly at the point of considering hysterectomy, I'd almost rather be fat, knackered and old before my time than tolerate much more of this. Plus I'm £20k+ in debt now, and barely hanging onto my work ... it cannot carry on, everything is private, iron infusions, prescriptions, consultations, the lot - I'm about to bounce my mortgage payment, p*ssed off doesn't really put into words the level of utter frustration!
Anyway, thanks, let me try and reach her, I'll report back.
x
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Keep us posted Reb and I hope you can get an appt soon. She works at other sites too so if you can’t see her soon via the nick panay clinic try another one she works at like The Menopause Consultancy.
From my own experience toughing the pill out or any other pill out with histamine issues isn’t always successful. It’s hard enough toughing the pill out with no histamine issues.
I’m the same in needing to cut out the peaks and troughs. Have also considered hysterectomy. There may be other mast cell meds that help she can consider and it may be worth trying the coil or the mini pill or another pill with continuous load.
One other thing I thought of is I know you stopped your H2 blocker (as I have now) when I did that my H1 symptoms went haywire to the point I got hives which I’ve never ever had before and am on short course of steroids to get rid. The hospital said it may well have been coming off the H2. So you may have had a boost in histamine generally after coming off famotidine depending on how long ago you came off it? If you then went on the pill might have been a double whammy. Just trying to help work it out anyway x
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Thanks so much Scampi
Clinic just emailed me back, they're chasing her, will try other clinic if Panay's can't get her. I agree. I've been logging my symptoms on that grid they give you, 28 columns (days) and then rows of symptoms, I've been logging histamine (by bloom on chest, and the symptoms I know /recognise), cortisol / feeling adrenalized, and the shakes (the 'vibrations' as my boyfriend calls them, lol), along with the usual - tiredness, low mood, libido, bloating, weight gain etc etc. I log on a scale of 1 - 5.
You start Qlaira on Day 1, so histamine was up (a 4, 3, 3) as I started, as you'd expect at the beginning. But then I've been at 0 or 1 all month apart from 4, 3, 2, 2, 2 from day 14 (again when I usually get it). If I scan across these five weeks, histamine starts really climbing day 25 and 26 (the two estrogen only pills at the end of the pack, so estrogen up, prog sharply down) and then day 27 and 28 are a 4 and a 5 (the sugar pill days) and now I've had 7 days of max score of 5 (more like a ten!!) since I started the new pack (2 high estrogen pills, and then 5 days of high estrogen/ low prog pills). Sorry all the data, but that says to me a) this clearly went awry once the prog stopped, and things fluctuated, and also when I had a big influx of too much unopposed E. My 'vibrations' which seem to mirror my histamine, only ever once went to a 3 the entire month, and I've been at zero or 1 for the rest. The trigger was most defo the pack end, when it fluctuates (which despite all this misery is at least useful info!!).
So way I see it, perhaps what I need to try next is either prog only (coil, mini pill), or as Crispy and the girls here are saying, a steady continuous dose of P and E back to back to stay balanced and override my cycle. I can't see how I'd go to 100mph on the histamine in that period when it was so steady on combined P&E - slightly more P vs E. I've been saying to my mum and friends all month, I can't believe how much better I feel, my histamine is so much better, I've had endless comments on how 'the old you is back'. I think the trigger is the drop in P relative to E. Also if I was prog intolerant, I think it'd have reared its head before week 5!
I'd prefer a pill to a coil as I'm more in control, but I do need some advice pronto. Interesting about H2, the boomerang effect (read about that) but stopped that in December with the iron hoo ha, and had been feeling OK (sorry about the hives, what a nightmare this all is).
Will check my inbox (something up with my notifications here) as think I prob have a message from you I haven't responded too (sorry!).
Thanks again everyone, honestly, means a lot, it's been a desperate few days (with the double whammy of the disappointment on top).
Reb
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Avon pill ladder will tell you which pills are more estrogenic and wfich are more prog dominant. Might be worth a quick look before you speak to your specialist. 👍
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Hello ladies.
Sorry to be thick but are you all saying that progesterone not only balances oestrogen but also histamine?
I can see why a coil wouldn't be an attractive option but is a prog implant a possibility if indeed such a thing exists. I think hormone implants are put in the upper arm which may at least be a less awkward procedure.
Apologies if all the above is complete nonsense!
Take care everyone.
K.
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Hiya
In most histamine intolerant women progesterone can be mast cell calming (histamine tamping) but not all, in others it is histamine aggravating. Estrogen definitely is histamine aggravating. However most histamine intolerant women are also progesterone sensitive, making the whole thing a bit of a nightmare in terms of getting the dose and delivery right.
reb
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I agree a pill over a coil as you need the continuous hormones. Unopposed oestrogen is the killer here and you’re logging it and know that now.
So maybe try a back to back combined pill then if that doesn’t work then the mini pill.
Glad you were ok coming off the H2s. They caused your iron issues and for me they gave me terrible joint and muscle pain. I can walk freely now I’m off them! I have severe mistrust of any meds now!
But clearly for me they sent my symptoms haywire. Rebound as you say. I will up my H1’s daily as you did.
Take care and keep us posted x
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Also agree if you were badly prog intolerant I reckon you will have found that out in the first month of this pill you’re on now. Like when some women get the Mirena they need it taken out with in one or two days as they know it’s not working. And from your logging it sounds like the Prog is not the issue it’s the E! X
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Sorry me again, I was just pondering that if on the mini pill what happens to your oestrogen? Does it just stay low and steady or just do it’s own thing? I can’t get my head round it.
Thought it can’t get too low or millions of non menopausal women would be getting menopause symptoms.
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Hey
Thanks Scampi. I don't know, I just remember feeling terrible on the mini when I was younger, really low and depressed, but I can't imagine it shuts off your oestrogen, I don't quite get the logic of all this yet either. Obvs histamine makes it more complicated also.
Agree with your reasoning re pills and all the rest, I just want to speak to her to check she's eyeballing my notes (busy doctors can't possibly remember every detail) and I want to know why she thinks one is a better option over the other, and just check my logic, and run the symptom log past her. I appreciate 17 days of E/P combined isn't the greatest data set in a perimeno woman, but does point to something I've been baffled by for years and years (this started when they took my thyroid out ten years ago, been cranking up in the last five, unbearable for the last 2) - and that is maybe fluctuations are more to do with the suffering, than one hormone, or level of hormone over the other. As Crispy says, maybe keeping steady and unwavering is the key to all this (this is such a long thread now, I did read lots of it, but it's probably already here and I missed it).
It doesn't help that most of the info out there about oestrogen dominance is a bit woo woo (highly influenced by the work of one doctor years ago, John Lee - and much loved by functional med folks - who thought progesterone was the cure for all ills - Studd told me it was 'bunk' lol) and equally standard meno gynaecology only really focuses on oestrogen deficiency (hence Studd - as any doc on first reading would have - telling me my jitters were lack of oestrogen, when the tests came back, opposite was true). And then of course, woe betide the anomalies like us lot!
Anyway, another write off of a day, but at least it's over ... netflix in jimjams and trying to tune this out for a bit. Thanks again for today ladies, really would have gone nuts without you all.
Reb
x
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Just putting this here so I can find it again, I dont' really have PMDD but this is interesting about mastcells and monophasic pills (You're right Crispy).
https://hellsbellsandmastcells.com/category/pmdd/
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Reb I'm sorry I don't have much to offer as the histamine aspect is totally unknown to me but I just wanted to say despite that I identified so much with a lot of what you said - the utter desperation, having your job at risk from it (mine is too, same reason), the frustration at being left guessing. When I first started Zoely and had 5 wonderful symptom free weeks all my family were saying "we've got the old you back!" too. This made the subsequent fall even harder to deal with, not just physically but mentally too.
All I can do is send you good vibes and say keep going... that's all we can do. You WILL get past this initial blip. Someone told me I was too concerned with thinking about it all the time and my response has been - when you periodically/regularly go through something that is so physically traumatic (for me, a week of severe sleep deprivation every 3 or 4 weeks) it's impossible just to accept that as your normal life and not need to fix it, particularly because I am adamant there is something physical that is at least triggering it. (ie it's not just psychological). And it very much sounds the same for you - what you're describing is not normal or deal-able with in the long term! It's not acceptable! Keep going - it might take a few trial and errors but keep at it xx
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Hi Gilla
Thanks, it's a living hell. I just cried all over my mum as at the age of nearly 50, she's bailing me out again, she's getting old now (77) and I just feel like a failure, she said 'we're going to get you right, it's my job as your mum'. She's told me to book the consult, and she'll put some money in my bank so I don't bounce my bills, it's a ridiculous state of affairs. I'm crashing off Qlaira (done two days no pill) still trembling, now very emotional, but at least the histamine is coming down. You are so right, people have no idea, this is BRUTAL and I'm so worn out with it, I am a bright, hard working cheerful person, I want me back!
Heard back from gynae, she says it's hard to say for certain what's going on, but sounds like phasic pill is too triggering with the fluctuations. She said she wouldn't do consult to save me the money, I've gone back and said I really need to speak to her properly, family will pay. In her email she said my options are:
Zoely back to back no breaks (why did you crash at five weeks Gilla, any ideas?) - unlike you, I am very sensitive to E, so wondering if this is a good option, but have said I want to discuss whether she thinks it's feasible I could tolerate the exogenous E long enough for it to shut down my own cycle. This is what is worrying me, as the histamine estrogen spiral is so bloody brutal, not sure I can do it again. Perhaps there's another mast cell drug we can use to get me on the damn stuff.
Or Jaydess - prog only - (really wondering whether tackling the E dominance first is the best option (head full of rocks today)) and then we add low dose E gel or patch, again for same desired result. I can tolerate a bit of E gel, as I have before, and wondering if Qlaira was too high dose.
Still confused, absolutely knackered, worried sick about slipping deadlines and mounting bills ... which I know you all understand.
Once I've sorted this out, I'm writing a bloody book - women's care should be better than this, can you imagine men putting up with this crap?!
Reb
x
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Sorry, me again,
Is Zoely prog dominant or E dominant do we know? How does it compare to Eloine if anyone has any experience of that? Apparently my gynae has had some good results in some Mast Cell / Histamine women with Eloine, but it's all greek to me!
Ta
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Hey Reb - I crashed at the 3 month mark. Before that time I had had two other "episodes" of the terrible night sweats and insomnia and one of them at the 2 month mark was accompanied by what definitely felt like my normal PMT in terms of my emotions so when it happened again 4 weeks later I felt pretty confident that my own hormones were still fluctuating underneath, which was the reason I had to change. After researching the crap out of it and learning that that Zoely's Estrogen (estriadol hemihydrate, also called 17B estriadol) is weak compared to the "traditional" Pills containing ethinyl estriadol it backed up my feeling about my own hormones not being suppressed even more, so I switched.
I'm not sure whether Zoely is an E or P dominant Pill - I had actually wondered that myself. Considering the Estrogen in it is weak compared to ethinyl estriadol I would imagine it is Prog dominant, but I certainly didn't feel the Prog side effects that I did on traditional Prog dominant pills like Microgynon. Any info on the internet describes the Prog contained in Zoely as having "a strong affinity for progesterone receptor" but I don't know if that means it's "Prog dominant."
Eloine contains 20mcg ethinyl estridaol which I'd imagine is still going to be stronger than Zoely because of the difference in potency between ethinyl estriadol and 17-B estriadol. But as I've mentioned before there are next-to-no publications about the direct dose equivalents between the different types of estrogens so it is really hard to know for sure. Zoely could be a good option for you if you aren't too worried about totally suppressing your own hormonal function, but if your gynae has had good experiences with Eloine (which is the lowest estrogen pill available from the normal types before you get to the POP) then perhaps it's worth a shout? Especially as you seemed to be doing ok on Qlaira until you had this unopposed estrogen hit?
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I just had my ferritin results which were 113 and all other bloods normal. You kind of wish something would come up to explain all these symptoms don’t you!
It feels like we all need to shut down our hormones. I often think when people talk about trying things for 3 months that surely they don’t mean going to hell and back for 3 months? I thought maybe the odd mid cycle bleed or headaches or random boob pain. Not how we are all feeling.
Good luck everyone.
How are things going on your new pill Gilla? X
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Not bad so far but it's too early to tell if it's worked to shut off my own hormones... I had 5 great weeks on Zoely before it all started playing up again :-\ In terms of side effects on Yasmin, the big painful boobs are back (high estrogen), plus some headaches and fatigue, but nothing that I'm not able to deal with. Just really hoping it works! Sending good vibes to you all xx
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How long has it been on yasmin? Please do keep us posted x
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Hey both
I'd cut my right arm off for mere random boob pain! Ha! Ferritin can be falsely elevated in the presence of inflammation (which mcas is) did they test your HB and RBC, how are they? Do they check your inflammatory markers? My ferritin was 100 and I felt like death, but had just sent myself hyper on my thyroid meds (lost a load of weight, it's dosed per kg of body weight, totally forgot!) and that can send it up. But they infused me on the basis of my Hb and Rbc, serum, and other markers (MCH, MCV, transferrin saturation etc). But totally agree, even some bloody illness with some kind of clear disease progression would be easier to cope with, in particular mentally, than this roller coaster! Not that I'm wishing a disease on anyone but you know what I mean I hope.
I'm still highly adrenalised this afternoon, high heart rate, feel shaky and revved but it's a different kind of feeling to previous days, and not quite so ramped up, histamine is coming down and my lovely mum tells me I look more normal (I look tired, waking at 5am). I've taken all my estrogen dominance supplements, brocolli oil, calcium d glucarate etc to try and process this stuff out of me! I assume this is high estrogen still - hoping this gap of pills might give me a bleed, and settle it down, my previous ups and downs are looking preferable to this nightmare anyway.
I was thinking I'd jump aboard a new pill right away, but think I need to bail out my histamine bucket first and get some semblance of a baseline again, as Im chasing my tail at the moment. I just wish I knew a bit more about prog reactions, do they cause this adrenalised feeling or would I be feeling more bloated, low, weepy, depressed, greasy haired, etc. Or do they make you jittery and wired? What is prog intolerance, nobody seems to ever spell it out. I say that as I'm starting to think maybe for me I need to just do prog only for a bit and get this estrogen opposed, but no way Im putting an implant in my bloomin' womb without knowing if I'm going to be tap dancing on the ceiling within moments of the bloody thing going in!
Gilla, thanks, you poor thing that must have been total heartbreak, after doing so very much better for a good chunk of time. It's hellish isn't it. So I can see you seem to need a good high dose of estrogen, at least in theory, and Zoely wasn't enough for you to suppress the sweats and surges etc (do you mind me asking your age?). I think this is where you and I are different, as too much E sends me spiralling into histamine (although frustratingly probably need it like crispy says to shut the shooting match down, but can't tolerate it long enough to get there maybe). So perhaps Zoely would be OK for me, but I'm so nervous of setting off this shit show again, I'm half tempted to just try Jaydess, steer clear of E altogether until these mad surges are over, and live with my 'normal' ups and downs of E, at least I'm prepared for those (I organise my work diary around my bad days usually, I freelance so I make excuses about meetings, or other commitments and clients never know, it's harder to hide this level of buggered up though, just had to confess to one lot why I hadn't delivered as promised!).
I'm so confused I think I need to let it all settle, I wouldn't recommend it though, withdrawing off this stuff is really quite manky! I want to be clear headed and prepared and well researched when I speak to the gynae, so I ask the right questions. I've tried googling, there's virtually nothing on the internet about Jaydess, just the spiel telling you how wonderful it is. I know you Scampi did OK on just prog coil for a bit with the same issues as me, maybe that's the way to go. Just don't know.
Thanks for taking the time to explain Gilla, I'll come back to your post again when I'm thinking a bit clearer.
Reb
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I agree Reb, it seems like we have the opposite problem! Yes you're right - I think (but again, only gut suspicion from all the tracking I've done because no one seems to be able to know/help) that my issue is caused by any drops in estrogen. I'm not sure whether it's the estrogen drop itself or some other consequence of it (for example a drop in estrogen also causes a drop in serotonin) but that's what I think is happening and yes, the Zoely estrogen wasn't enough to suppress my own estrogen from doing it's own thing underneath. I'm about to turn 42 and have been having this very specific set of problems since I turned 41 (there was other early peri menopause stuff for about a year prior to that). It's youngish, but I've also not had children and I heard that can start perimenopause earlier.
We do seem to have the opposite problem in that it sounds like too much estrogen causes a bad chain reaction of events in you. It's so hard to know what the right thing to do is and I'm always nervous of advising in case I say the wrong thing. My understanding has always been that Prog symptoms are the low, depressed, angry stuff - not the hyper state you describe. If you had Jaydess and then started experiencing menopausal symptoms (because it won't do anything for your estrogen and therefore you could eventually get the classic side effects of that) you could always then try adding in a really low dose of estriadol as some women do. You might not be as likely to get these side effects of the estriadol when the Jaydess Prog is there to balance it. I can understand the nervousness about having something implanted in you though and the reaction you might have xx
Scampi on Sunday it will be two weeks since starting the Yasmin - so very new. I've paid for another Rhythm hormone test which is a test you do every couple of days. My plan is to start it in a couple of weeks' time to hopefully "catch" when/if I have another bout of the night sweats and insomnia, to be able to see if there is any correlation in hormone level movement. At the very least I'll be able to see if my own estrogen levels are still fluctuating underneath - if they aren't I would expect my estrogen reading to be flat the whole time.
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Good idea to do the test Gilla. It certainly must be hormonal it’s such a very specific set of symptoms at a specific time isn’t it.
I do hope yasmin works out for you.
I’ve just got my script through for Eloine so I’ll tentatively try that in a few weeks. I’m also 42 and totally unsure which hormone is doing what to me and when but also certain it is the hormones driving my symptoms (alongside histamine anyway) x
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Well, I am absolutely gutted ladies.
8 weeks of mood hell getting on microgynon... 2 weeks of iffy heads with severe nose pressure. I tell myself it's my allergies. I steam every day...
I'm kidding myself. This is what I get when I'm on a combined pill. Gutted. Absolutely gutted.
Everything else is feeling good on microgynon. A lot more balanced. But I can't have daily headaches...
But I'm not giving up. I'll give it another week or so to be sure. Then I think I'm going to have to try another low dose version...clearly 30mg is too much, even with the progesterone dominance of microgynon. 😔. Feeling so very sorry for myself.
I'm interested in eloine... I haven't tried that prog before...
Sigh. I'm away to eat my body weight in chocolate. So very upset.
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Crispy I can totally understand the feeling, it's how I felt when I realised Zoely wasn't working. But don't give up - it is undeniably rubbish but this is just a temporary setback. Switching from Zoely to Yasmin has been SO much easier than when I tried starting Yasmin in my early 30s. Are you sure the headaches and stuffy nose are from the Pill? Headaches are normally a sign of too much estrogen and Microgynon is a Prog dominant Pill. I do think the newer Progs are much better tolerated though - Eloine contains the same Prog as Yasmin (Eloine used to be called Yaz) and I have been fine with it - no Prog symptoms, just Estrogen symptoms (but Yasmin has 30mcg).
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Morning ladies
Well I'm day 4 of no pill and coming back into land, I'm exhausted (I'm so, so, tired) but whilst still ramped up, nowhere near as bad as I've been at the worst of it in the last two weeks. Honestly, this has been significantly worse than the problem I'm trying to fix and I feel we're just guessing at solutions now. I honestly don't feel like I can live through another one of these episodes, it's so very bad. I've just sent an email to the Newsom clinic asking if they have anyone with experience of my symptoms, I need to find someone to partner me, go back to the beginning and figure out what the F is going on.
I want to know if this adrenalised feeling is driven by estrogen or progesterone, or both, there was something particularly vicious about this Qlaira kick back, I think I'd be mad to put a coil in without knowing, why would I do that to myself, I'd rather limp along with utrogestan, eeking out my cycles to 28 days, and doing my best with the bleeding.
Don't get me wrong, Panay clinic have been kind, and nice, and professional etc, they are wonderful and get many women well again but the truth is I'm getting worse not better, and I've paid thousands for the privilege, it can't carry on.
I am still undecided what to do really - I've read a lot now, is it realistic to think another gynae is going to say anything other than 'well you could try a coil'? By which I mean is am I at the limits of what gynaecology can offer? Is there even any bloody point? And if so where does that leave me? Trial and error is all well and good (is this honestly what women are expected to put up with?) but it's wrecking my life.
Anyway, having thought I need to do something immediately, I think I'm going to have to wait for all this to trickle out of my system, get back to baseline (of rubbish, but not THIS rubbish) and see where I go then. I think I'd be silly to put more hormones in when I'm so confused. Maybe I'll feel better once I've got this junk out of my body, we'll see.
Crispy, so sorry, don't forget about your iron, it causes such weird and whacky symptoms, you won't be able to see the wood for the trees just with that, never mind everything else. That said you know your body better than anyone, and what is tolerable. Very sorry, it's totally rubbish.
Thanks Gilla, think you are right. I think Jaydess sounds the most logical solution (but also the most risky, once it's in, it's in, I know I could have it out, but right now even waiting a fortnight for an apt with all this covid madness would be intolerable, at the fever pitch I get to, even hanging on for a day feels like more than any human should be asked to bloody bear!). I am interested in this 'Rhythm' test, never heard of that, is it any good? Can you choose the days you test, I'd love to know what's going on on my havoc days, that'd tell me a lot! My one big frustration is nobody will do any blood tests (I really don't understand this, how can doctors be making all these decisions on no data). Are they expensive and where do you go for the blood draw?
Thanks again everyone, maybe I'm just crashing off hormones and feeling defeated, and I'll be feeling like it's worth trying again in a day or two.
Reb
xx
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Thanks guys.
No, I'm not 100% sure it is the pill causing this, but I think I need to stop deluding myself. I think the evidence is there...
Started gederal 20/150 first. It brought back my awful vertigo and nausea, so upped to 30/150 and within a month that settled. Then came migraines. Dropped back to 20/150 and migraines went. Did t feel good.
Swapped to microgynon. Bailed at 6 weeks given the mood issues. Switched to brevinor, which is 35mg estrogen. This nose thing started... Came off brevinor thi King it was the cause, on to millinette which made me feel poisoned... The nose/head issue continued.
Stopped millinette. 3 months on nothing. I was dreadful, but the nose issue went. Now its back, 8 weeks into microgynon.
I think the evidence is probably there. Thete is stuff online about the combined pill causing sinus issues and non allergic rhinitis. I have these issues already, but this seems to take it to a whole new level...
I am gutted. But... I know I can't be in nothing. Most of the 30mg estrogen pills make me feel poisoned, microgynon was a better one. But maybe the 30mg is still too much. Just hoping a 20mg will be enough to supress...
I've got a gp appointment in 4 weeks... But I'm wondering if I could put through a
Special request for eloine. The meno clinic told me to try different pills....so maybe the gp will just prescribe... I don't wavt to wait 4 weeks...
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You could ask for an emergency GP appt Crispy, it’s the only way to be seen currently. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot of pills already. I do wonder if your nose/head issues are related to histamine intolerance too, especially as the oestrogen in pills/hrt makes it worse. Do you take antihistamines? (Sorry if you’ve been through all this before in this thread) x
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Hi Scampidoodle
Yes, I have endless allergies and I take fexofenadine. I stopped taking it when this nose pressure arrived in May, but that didn't help. I've just started it again to see if it helps this time.
I've read the histamine threads with interest. But just because I have a lot of allergies which obviously trigger histamine, I'm guessing that doesn't mean I'm intolerant to histamine??? Although I suppose I could be.
Just fed up with all the trials. Me on nothing is horrific in terms of hormones.
I've always had the allergies. I e taken pills in my earlier years - no problems.
So, if it was a histamine issue, I note Reb's expert suggests eloine. So that's wgat I'm thinking of anyway... I'm just hoping the 20mg is enough to supress... 😬
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I think histamine intolerance is less of a traditional intolerance and more that it builds to a level in the body that becomes toxic. So I suppose if you have allergies your histamine will be high anyway so oestrogen will then exacerbate it. Which may explain why you feel bad on high dose oestrogen pills.
I’m under the same gynae as Reb and she suggested Eloine to me which I’ve just got the script for but I haven’t tried it yet. For me I need to level out the oestrogen to prevent the big spikes in the first half of my cycle which make me feel very depressed and jittery and exhausted then to prevent the giant mood drop pre period.
Good luck with the GP x
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I think I'll Bury my head about histamine intolerance... I can't cope with going down another rabbit whole. ;D. I'll keep taking my antihistamines and see if it helps.
I'm totally the same. I need to level my estrogen surges. I've been quite ill with them. First half of cycle is awful for me. I'm definitely more level after 10 weeks on microgynon. But this head thing is making me feel so bad.
I've tried the special request. I'll call up a d see if they're happy to action it, otherwise I'll need to make an appointment, which seems pointless when the meno clinic have already told me to try different pills...
It's such a nightmare. When are you starting eloine??? I'll be following closely. Are you on anything just now?
I'm guessing I'll feel the downward shunt of estrogen, but hopefully as I already have a lot of hormones in my system, the change will be smoother...
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Hi
Just to say the thing to remember about histamine is not only does estrogen exacerbate it, but estrogen causes it, which in turn causes more estrogen - histamine tells the ovaries to release more estrogen, estrogen tells the mast cells to release more histamine. it also has an action on the prostoglandins in the uterus, which is what causes all the pain, cramping and heavy bleeding.
This is the very crux of my dilemma, how to tolerate the initial exposure to exogenous estrogen long enough to shut down my ovaries and switch off this roller coaster, without - like Scampi says - getting to the level of toxicity I'm just detoxing off now (I am a pretty broad shouldered person, I've been incredibly ill with thyroid disease, very treacherous stuff, so no stranger to suffering, I've also got cPTSD and have had to shiver and shake through a very painful recovery, I'm quite a brave and stoic person, and this nightmare honestly is worse than anything I've ever had to suffer).
I don't know what the answer is for any of us really, I'm still fuming that trial and error, when we all suffer like we do, is about all there is, but I don't know about you guys, it's the highly strung stuff of all this that's just unbearable, that poisioned, tense, stressed body feeling.
I'll let you know if I hear from Newsom, I'm doctor shopping, there must be some answers somewhere!
I'm liking the sound of Eloine also, thinking that might be an option.
Reb
x
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I haven’t started Eloine yet I’m just waiting for it to be delivered. So I’ll let you know how it goes ok course. Pretty scared about it really. The last pill I tried in 2017 was Mercillon I think and it made me feel dreadful and I think I was only on it for two weeks x
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Hi All,
I was on Yasmin successfully until 2016 when i was swapped to Eloine the lower dose. All fine but did get some mild breakthrough perimenopause symptoms but didn't know it at the time then i was taken off it at 51 because of my age. I felt pretty good for a few months then I completely stopped sleeping then the flushes, palpitations and very dry vagina etc. Have tried various HRT's but not there yet. My fluctuations started severely in Oct 2019 which muddied the water trying to figure out the HRT. Went back on Eloine in June 2020 and after a few months I started to feel more normal then at the end of September I started to sleep on and off but still had palpitation's etc but thought I was getting there. End of November 2020 all symptoms came back with a vengeance , ever increasing dose of Lenzetto and still no let up in symptoms, now added some gel in the hope it starts to even get rid of the flushes at least so I know something is working. I have to say that I'm not getting much from the Lenzetto as its weak so if like me you need more then some other one will be needed.
Eloine was very good up until things went haywire for me so its worth a go. I am 53 and near menopause I hope. It is the constant fluctuations in my hormones that have caused me to be so ill and each time I did a blood test it showed high levels so that's why I did 6 in total and finally one showed low estrogen which was a more accurate reflection of what my estrogen levels are and not when it was spiking.
Everyone reacts differently so don't be put off it is trial and error.
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Thanks guys. I've put special request through and just called up. Receptionist said it will go through to the gp I always see, which is great, she usually gives me which type I want to try next 🙄.
Sorry you're feeling so bad floo, but thanks so much for sharing your experience of eloise.
Good luck starting scampi. I'll probably get mine next week. My nose/head is bad again. Just like it was all summer whilst on the other higher dose pills. I'll give it another week. But it's painful.
Still devastated as microgynon defo helping with other stuff. They do suggest 20mg estrogen pills for peri... So I'll keep trying...
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Thanks Floo. I’ll keep you posted.
What I don’t get is when I’ve had my oestrogen bloods done I’ve had
Day 3: 79pmol
Day 14: 433pmol
Day 23: 102pmol
That’s a 25 days cycle ish so last reading near end of cycle. This all sounds pretty low in my book. I don’t know how much it spikes to in that first half of the cycle though.
I’m 42. But FSH low. Maybe the steady dose of oestrogen with the progesterone to combat the histamine will help me. Fingers crossed. X
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scampidoodle
Your bloods do seem low at times. It’s difficult because we all need different levels of Estrogen, I need quite high levels.
It’s whatever level makes you feel better, that’s the tricky part.
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That’s true, no one cares what their levels are as long as they feel good. And weirdly when I had my two lowest levels tested I was having good days really. So no telling.
Let us know how you got on with GP crispy and if you got what you wanted x
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Morning girls
Just a quickie to say hi. Still crashing off Qlaira, but slept til seven this morning so that's progress. There's something different about this toxic feeling to the time when I crashed off HRT (twice, estrogel, without and then with antihistamines and mast cell stablisers in place) so I'm wondering if I've also got some sensitivity to progesterone in the mix, I feel properly poisoned and the ramped up adrenalized feeling is really intense.
Heard back from the Newsom clinic, they have docs who get histamine intolerance and perimeno, given it's the same money I think I'm going to get a second opinion, as Im just chasing my tail.
Interested to see how you both get on on this different pill.
I'm having a day outside today, to try and take my mind off the fact I feel like I've got electricity going through my body! Beautiful spring day here
xx
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I'm going for the fresh air route too today.
Feeling a bit more positive. My headache/nose thing still there... But I need to get the evidence that this is the pill then I guess drop to 20mg one.
All that rage diff nothing, but hey, at least the hormones are in my system. I will not be coming off, just swapping.
Hope you get good advice on your second opinion Reb.
I was looking into histamine intolerance. I'm not keen to go too far down that rabbit Warren, but I did not turmeric can lower histamine. I used to take turmeric and it was great for inflammation. So I'm going to start it again in the hope it helps my sinuses, but also lowers histamine, in case that is a prob.
Honestly, all these supplements and iron etc... I should take out shares in a certain shop 🤣🤣🤣
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So i've had a good think whilst I've been out walking. I've been wondering why the nose pressure/headaches just appeared st 8 weeks onwards of my taking microgynon.
I suppose the conclusion I've reached is, that's how long it took for my body to stabalise. I had the ragey moods for the first 8 weeks with defo prog synptoms and now the daily nose pressure and headaches. These are not migraines, which is good. But clearly 30mg of estrogen is now too high for me, even with a prog dominant pill.
I certainly feel the estrogen in other ways too now. My mood is happier, like its suppressed the ragey progesterone.
So. That's it. No more 30mg. I'll hopefully get Eloine this week.
Anyone heard of Microgynon 20??? I recall someone bring prescribed it on this forum, but on googling it looks like it might only be available in Australia. I'd like to have tried it, as it actually has 1/3 less prog as well as estrogen. All the other 20mg ones keep same dose of prog (although maybe that will help if there are any histamine issue).
I'm scared about starting again. But I've lived through 8 weeks of dire rage and low moods... I can do this...
Gilla... How you finding yasmin now??? X
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There are a few 20mcg EE pills Crispy. I think there is Femodette and Millinette (with Gestodene as the Prog), Mercilon and Gederal (with Desogestrel) and then Eloine (with Drospirenone). They're the ones I'm aware of. Loestrin I think was the only 20mcg eith one of the older Progs and that was taking off the market in 2019.
I'm doing fine - had really bad night sweats last night but it didn't affect my sleep, fingers crossed. My boobs are absolutely gigantic but other than that no side effects (except the digestion which is still a problem - I'm having a colonoscopy on Monday). Still much too early to tell if it will help me - I had 5 great weeks on Zoely before the first crash so we'll have to see. I know how disheartening it is but you were 100% right that switching Pill is soooo much easier than starting afresh, so keep that in mind xxx
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I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you Gilla. Thanks for the info on the 20mg pills too that’s really useful.
I don’t know if anyone knows or maybe Floo- on Eloine gynae says I can do 3/4 months back to back then take a 4 day break for a small bleed. I’m concerned what happens on the 4 day break, would your mood not just fall off a cliff stopping the hormones? Considering I’m doing this to prevent all fluctuations for the sake of my sanity. I just don’t get it x
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I'm the same Scampi. I haven't had a break since I started taking Zoely in early December and don't want to for the same reasons. But I'm not sure how long you're allowed to go without taking one....
I've been doing some more thinking about my situation and I'm starting to formulate a theory. There is a really close connection that's not yet fully understood between Estrogen and Serotonin. And the connection seems to impact someone women more than others in various ways. A drop in Estrogen also cause Serotonin to drop (which is what causes the emotional PMS). Serotonin plays a key part in the regulation of sleep and the sleep-wake cycle, and I'm wondering if what I experience is not as a result of the estrogen drop itself, but as a consequence of the serotonin dropping and whether I am somehow sensitive to its fluctuations. What's made me consider this is that the last two nights I've had night sweats (the night before last was really bad) yet I didn't have any problem in falling straight back to sleep. I don't understand how one night I can wake and have no problems at all, and then another night (for a period of a week or so) I feel completely different and am unable to go back to sleep. The only difference this time has been that I raised my Sertraline dose slightly after the last episode (about two weeks ago). I also increased it slightly in early December after the last episode, and then had 5 great weeks of no problems. The funny this I haven't felt particularly different/better with my mood (the increases were very small) - ie. it's not that I'm worrying about it less that it doesn't happen (I am still worrying about it!). It just seems to have some kind of positive impact on my sleep-wake cycle. But unfortunately it never seems to last - after about 5 weeks any positive changes I've ever felt from SSRIs always go back to normal.
Anyway I might be wrong, I just think it's interesting that estrogen drops also cause serotonin to drop and that serotonin plays a key part in regulating your sleep-wake cycle.
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How much time to we dedicate to thinkingvthis through ladies?!? It's a nightmare!!
You might be right Gilla. As others hsve pointed out the histamine link, there are bound to be loads of links.
Scampi, I'm wondering if the 4 day break is because Eloine and Yasmin use the 4th gen prog which has a lesser safety profile???
In my experience of all these different pills, taking a break has been a big hinderance. That said, I'll happily take 4 days 4 times a year if I'm fine the rest of the time. Given I never have any good days... That seems a good deal.
Thanks for the info Gilla. I actually started this COC trial 14 months ago on gederal 20mg...it brought all my original symptoms back and was awful... But, I had been on thd mini pill before, so it was maybe just the surge. I quickly switched to 30mg.
I think eloine is the only one I'm interested in. I took 30mg millinette and felt awful...
I was just thinking if there was a 30mg microgynon it might be been a good place for me to start since I've got used to levongesteral. Must just be in Australia I'm guessing.
Sczmpi, have you started yet? X
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I agree on the break Crispy - if I was feeling fine the rest of the time I could cope with 4 days 4 times a year - you know what it is and that it will pass.
Yes I remember you saying you didn't have a good experience with Gederal. Eloine is definitely worth a try!
Reb I forgot to answer you - the Rhythm hormone test is by Genova Diagnostics. It's not a blood test it's saliva tests you do at home. Professionals will say that saliva tests aren't as reliable as blood tests but when I did the test 3 years ago to find out what was going on with my crazy swollen painful boobs (which I now know was the classic estrogen dominance of early Peri) it showed up exactly right at the right time (ie. the increase in estrogen correlated with my symptoms and the hormones were generally what you'd expect to see in a normal cycle) so it's reliable enough for me to feel it's at least an indication of what's going on.
They really need to hurry up and develop that Star Trek scanner!!!
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I’ve not started the Eloine yet guys. Just waiting for a reply back from gynae re the breaks and some other stuff. And waiting for my period. Do you still have to wait until first day of period to start the pill? I haven’t been ok it since I was 30!
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Hi Scampi
You don’t need to have a break on the Eloine and can take it continuously, that’s what I did as advised by the Menopause Specialist.
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Scampi, I don't think you need to wait for period, but it won't give u immediate contraceptive protection if you don't (least of all our worries I know).
I'll just make a straight switch when I get it. Hopefully later this week. Ended up with full blown migraine last night. Had to take a triptan. Today, it's on the edge and I feel a bit nauseous. I know I can't live like this...
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Morning ladies
Gilla and Floo, wanted to ask about testing. Is the Rhythm test the saliva one over several days? Iv'e done that years ago and no doctor would take it seriously, said unless it was serum, no point doing it, is there another test we can do over several days, did you buy a bundle Floo and if so which one?
Thanks
Reb
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Sorry, just seen you answered and I left the window open, walked the dog and clicked 'post' without checking!
Annoyingly gynae has sent me a script for Zoely, but I'd been chasing to speak to her, I fear I'm getting the brush off (usually happens eventually, nobody knows what to do with me!) and had hoped to talk this through, maybe she's busy and i'll get a reply to my plaintive cries for help next week. So yikes, that's going in a drawer for a bit until I'm more stable. I still haven't quite figured out the logic of giving histamine sensitive women estrogen yet, I get to suppress, but not sure how we're meant to get enough on board for it to do its job without flushing myself down the loo before that happens ... This week has been the worst its ever been in terms of ramped up jitters, I'm still vibrating now.
Better for a long walk, some outside jobs on the yard, and meditation - also put relationships tussles with boyf's ex in loving brackets and parked that for the time being, he'll just have to wait, can't stay employed, upright, and function at all AND get sucked into someone else's drama, got enough of my own!!
Hear you Crispy, I'm considering chucking in the towel on hormones for a bit and going back to 7 doses of utro, alternate nights, second half of my cycle and just sucking it up for a bit ... I'm feeling battle weary after the last 18 months of up and down (it's the good patches that kill me, I'm used to feeling shite, it's the patches where I think I'm finally free of it that just destroy me when I crash).
xx
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Hi Reb,
I went to m local Nuffield it’s only a few minutes away, it cost me £31 each time but still cheaper than finger **** tests you can get online.
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Hi Floo
OMG that's cheap as chips, I'm going to call mine, they are twenty minutes away, I'd love to have prog and oestrogen on good days and bad days and 'vibrating' days! I think I'm also going to do a four point cortisol test with my func med, might do two, one on a good day and one on a bad day, need some sleuthing.
Thanks ever much, I was braced for hideous costs but that's not bad.
Thanks
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Thanks Floo for confirming about the Eloine to be taken continuously. I did wonder. Hope everyone has managed to get through the day ok xx
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Morning
Just checking in as you ladies are helping me hold onto my sanity, and I literally have no one else who gets what this is like. Now on day 12 of DefCon4 symptoms. The internal distress and buzzing has come down a bit but I'm still absolutely flooded with histamine, and feel ramped up to the moon. I am now angry my gynae has just sent me a script electronically and not engaged with me, I have been in bed for a week!!! This trial and error is killing me! I need proper help! etc That clinic must have had two grand out of me in fees, I think the least I'm worth is a bloomin' chat before anyone tells me to put exogenous estrogen in my system again, or indeed a hormone infused piece of plastic in my uterus!
Anyway, I am at utter exhaustion, it's the kind of exhaustion you feel when you've had the flu, but I'm up and trying to work early so I can clock off early and sleep. I slept for eight hours last night as I added in another mast cell stabiliser I remembered I'd got - rupatidine - which seems to have taken the edge off a bit. My plan is regroup and settle my system. I've booked some cranial sacral therapy later, I need to soothe my poor old nervous system, and I have my somatic session at 11am. I honestly feel like a hand grenade has gone off in my nervous system, I'm scared I'll end up with M.E.
Keep bursting into tears as starting to worry there aren't any answers. But hoping this is just the hormone crash. Bit crampy, really hoping I get a withdrawal bleed as that should press the reset button.
Keep up the good fight ladies, watching with interest how you all get on,
Reb
x
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I’m glad you got a bit more sleep at the very least Reb. I hope the therapies todsy help to soothe the system a little.
I know what you mean about feeling unsupervised with it, you want someone invested in your care don’t you not going it alone when you feel this bad.
Wish I had the answer x
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Hey
Jumping on the Eloine train, finally spoke to gynae. Interestingly histamine sends your adrenaline up, so that answers that question. Will fill in details tomorrow, but for now I'll be trying on day 1 period, three to four months with no breaks, and seeing how I go. Meanwhile woman on a mission to empty my histamine bucket!
Reb
x
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Good luck with the Eloine Reb, I really hope it works for you. I've had another 3 or 4 nights with zero sleep and night sweats - same old crap, and off work again. Today I had cramps in the early hours of the morning too, which is exactly what happened the last two episodes, so I know there is something hormonal going on when this happens, it's just so frustrating not understanding what. I am hoping beyond hope that it's still my body adjusting to the Pill. Going to speak to a gynae in a couple of weeks' time too. Feeling really down with it all.
Crispy hope you're doing ok xx
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Awww Gilla, that's awful. So, so, frustrating!!!
On the plus side, as I move further on with this microgynon trial, things are defo settling down. That's nearly 11 weeks on it. It really must take time. Just think I had the ragey for 8 full weeks... Before anything changed. I was positively happy yesterday. So you defo nerd the full 3 months...
Still getting the nose / head pressure unfortunately. It is more intermittent. I called yesterday and my gp has put prescription for eloine through. So really pleased about that. I'll go get it... Then decide... I know the drop in estrogen will affect me.
How was the colonoscopy??? I had one in my 20s...😬.
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It's so lovely to hear you're feeling a bit more positive! It just goes to show how long it takes for side effects to subside. Good news on the Eloine - at least if you have it then you can make the decision. I do think it's worth investigating if the nose thing could be something else (at least just to rule it out). If you're getting migraines that's obviously not good or manageable though xx
Colonoscopy was fine - they don't know what's wrong (and I'm not celiac). I am sure that it is caused by the Pill as it literally started at exactly the same time. I suspect it's something to do with the water retention the Pill causes. They'll refer me to a dietician anyway. On its own it wouldn't be enough to stop me taking it anyway... I just wish the original problems would stop happening. In a way being woken by stomach cramps and needing to take painkillers is oddly reassuring because at least I know there is actually something going on. I have wondered if I could be making it "worse" by not taking a break since December... not sure of that logic, just a thought ;D
Looking forward to speaking to the gynae soon and seeing what her take is... so lovely to hear you had a good day yesterday xx
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Really good news crispy I do hope things continue well for you!
Gilla your symptoms must so be hormonally influenced. Is it always the week pre period you experience the sleep and night sweat issues?
I haven’t started Eloine yet just as I’m on steroids for my hives and antibiotics currently so want to be off those so I know what’s what when I start Eloine. Too many variables at present! X
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Yay. My Eloine is waiting at pharmacy for me. I must say, despite not being able to help me, my GP is lovely. I did all this as a special request online.
I probably made it sound like I'm a lot better than I am 🤣🤣. I just felt a bit cheerier yesterday. First time in a long time.
I've had the nose thing investigated and I'm waiting on surgery. But I think the combined pill amplifies it and brings it on... With headaches too. I'll see where I go over the next week. I'm not going to rush to change.
So glad you found the colonoscopy OK. Worst thing I've ever had 🤣. It does sound connected.
I'm pretty sure a lot of my random intermittent symptoms are hormonal. I get indigestion sometimes. Had it really bad whilst on the mini pill. I get hair pain on and off. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, but I'm pretty sure now the only thing that can help balance is the pill.
I not that when floo mentioned being in eloine, it only masked for a while... I guess as, we get more into meno, not everything will be masked.
Could you try sleeping tablets for the week when this starts gilla???
Scampi, good luck starting eloine when you do. Keep in touch. I might end up swapping at the same time. And now Reb has eloine too...
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Scampi before I started the Pill back in December my symptoms (middle of the night insomnia and night sweats) were ALWAYS in the week before my period... and then it grew to be the two weeks before. From Day 1 to day 14 I never had any problems, ever. Ever! And it took me a year to even make the connection regarding the timing, it wasn't like I was "anticipating" it. Since starting the Pill it has obviously been impossible to tie it cyclically to anything (I'm not taking any breaks in packs) but when the bouts of insomnia and night sweats are accompanied by period pain then I know there is something hormonal still going on. I just wish I knew what it was so I could stop the misery!
Crispy I have tried every single prescription sleeping pill out there. Zopiclone, diazepam, everything. I'm still on Mirtazapine (an antidepressant) specifically for the insomnia when all this started, but when I have these bouts, none of them work. Whatever goes on hormonally to mess up my sleep it is very strong (and I think probably once it happens a psychological element comes into play to make it worse too).
Ahh i know you're not out of the woods Crispy! It was just nice to hear one of us have a good day... although I take the fact that Madame O hasn't been here in a long time as a really positive sign too :)
I've had septoplasty before - is that the surgery you're waiting on? They also made my sinuses bigger - forgotten what that part was called x
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I was just thinking that about Madame O actually this must be a good sign.
I know what you mean crispy, you’re not fixed but just so glad you have a little relief from the constant onslaught. Fingers crossed for the Eloine.
Gilla it’s totally hormonal isn’t it. Even mirtazapine won’t sort it which is renowned for making people sleepy. It’s so hormonal and no matter how people may say such things have a psych element this really doesn’t.
I know you can get injections to turn your hormones off with add back hrt but I’m hoping the pill works for us all x
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Oh geez. It really is severe isn't it. And so different for us all... Totally weird.
Yes, defo on madame ovary front... And all the others that have posted on this forum and gone...
The opening of the sinuses sounds good. I'm just getting my turbinates reduced, or something like that. I have a ton of allergies. But I don't think it will help with this feeling... I think I'm deluding myself if I do 🤣🙈. Had the allergy avd blocked nose all my life.... This is new. Sigh.
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Good luck with the Eloine everyone, we could all do with a bit of luck with our hormones.
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I forgot to take my pill yestersay ::).
How did that happen?!?! I'm usually fixated on it. Lol. Felt very foggy yesterday, but fingers crossed no side, affects of the blip :(
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Hello girls
Well, FFS, I'm still on the deck, I'm on day 15 of defcon 4, nails down a blackboard, jittery, adrenalised etc. Consultant says the rising histamine, which drives up the estrogen, which drives up the histamine, and on and on and on eventually means your body starts pumping out tonnes of adrenaline, which is what is causing the shaking, vibrations, jitters and internal taut as a piano wire feeling. she's added another mast cell stabiliser but must say it's not touching the sides.
I've woken up this morning (at 4am again) just so toxic, distressed, unwell, and just EATEN ALIVE with it all, my first thought was 'I don't want to be alive any more' - not stupid enough to say this out loud to a doctor (that's all they'll hear and not what I'm actually saying, I don't actually not want to live, I do want to live, that's why I'm so bloody distressed! i want my life back, I'm a hard working, cheerful, ambitious person, I'm also pretty stoic, but Jesus Christ I'm on my knees) but I have sent an SOS to the gynae again, and just called my GP practice and demanded a call back. I never ever thought I'd write these words, but valium is a potent mast cell stabiliser and I think I need a couple of doses just to get this spiral going the other way, my histamine is still climbing, and it's day 15 of my cycle so my estrogen is rising too, I just need a bloody breather!
I appreciate we are all in the same boat, trying to find a solution, but please do be careful won't you? I really would not wish this on my very worst enemy, it's totally knocked me off my feet and if I had known what the withdrawal from Qlaira would have been like, what the consequences of putting these hormones into my body would be, and just how terribly, terribly ill it was going to make me, I really would not have done it. The original complaint seriously is about a thousand times more preferable than this.
I now have two scripts, one for Elione, and one for Zoely, and I don't think I'm taking either. I want a second opinion before I do anything else.
Lay awake last night obsessing about whether taking some utrogestan in the second half of my cycle might be an idea (I can tolerate about 6 doses over 12 days vaginally usually) to just try to oppose this whopping amount of estrogen in my body right now, progesterone is also a mast cell stabiliser in almost all women (it's mast cell aggravating in some, hence my hesitiation, as nobody can even seem to tell me which hormone is causing what flippin' reaction!!).
In better news, Nuffield will do me a test bundle a lot cheaper than the individual tests, so just sorting that out, oestrogen, progesterone, folate, ferritin and homocysteine (there's a connection with histamiine and folic acid cycle which I have a hunch about).
Anyway, hope you are all surviving, I am but I really am clinging on by my fingernails .... I mean it, look after yourselves.
Lots of love
Reb
x
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Reb I’m so sorry you’re suffering like this. I hope gynae and the gp call very soon and can give you something to take the edge off, your histamines and mast cells must be on high alert right now and need something to bring you back down and some relief. Definitely you do want to be alive you just want to feel well and I totally understand that.
I hear you re trying hormones and starting the pill, I’m terribly scared about starting mine and as I have Eloine and the mini pill to try I’m still very confused as to which to try or even if to try.
Take care and keep us posted xxx
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Hiya
Thanks so much. Gynae got back, I need short course valium, she's doubled the rupatidine, and asked me to ask the Gp for Ketotifen at night, and I'm to consider low dose naltrexone (which I have already), at 0.5mg a day.
It doesn't help that my heart is broken over the boyf, and the stress of that is ramping up the adrenaline, really need a breather before I lose my job (worry about money is the WORST of all of it, I feel so guilty that my poor old mum is bailing me out yet again, I'm a grown woman, I should be able to stand on my own two feet!).
I hear you on the confusion, I honestly do feel like a rat in a trap, around and around and around, with no answers.
Reb
x
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Oh Reb
I really fo feel for you. I hear you on the 'trying things avd them making you worse. ' so get back to 'normal' and reevaluate. You have choices.
When I tried my first combined pill 16 months ago after having been on the mini pill, at day 8 I was horrific. My original symptoms of vertigo, dizziness and severe nausea avd illness returned... No idea why?!?! Estrogen I suspect... But, although I haven't yet found my magic cure, gradually those horrific symptoms faded a good bit. It took a long time...
I do think trying a pill will give you a bad 3 months to start... I've just been through them with this one... You have to weigh it up. Obviously there's no guarantee for long term benefit.
I'm still feeling headacy/nose pressure, but not ready to jump yet. Just picked up eloine and another microgynon (much to the pharmacists disgust! - she couldnt understand why I had two different contraceptive pills - but I wasn't for going into detail. Gp prescribed them 🤷♀️). Anyway, I feel better just knowing I have a choice and it's readily accessible e.g in my own bathroom cupboard 😊
Gilla... How are you fairing? Any better nights???
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Last couple of nights have been much better Crispy and the weird thing is I literally felt the shift... I knew I would sleep fine, I could feel the difference even though it's hard to explain how. I'm finding it hard when people try to insinuate the issue is purely psychological - though I'm sure there is an element of that too once the problems start, I am adamant from the physical symptoms I get too that something hormonal triggers it (night sweats, boobs dropped from super painful and swollen to less so and was getting period cramps). I have a gynea app on 12th April so will talk it all over with her - hoping she doesn't just fob me off.
Crispy I think if you've felt a positive mood shift on Microgynon and can cope with the nose/head pressure it's worth seeing if you can stick at it for a bit, but reassuring to know you have the scripts there! A bit like with my digestion, I'm sort of hoping they can treat that somehow, hopefully they can do the same for your nose. Is it Septoplasty you need? Can't remember if I asked already xx
Reb I'm so sorry to hear you're suffering so much. I can totally empathise - during my days on end of extreme sleep deprivation I am in a terrible, terrible state mentally and physically. Even though it's hard to see it right now it WILL subside and you'll be able to then take stock. Don't worry about the valium - I also have that on regular script just for the days after no sleep where my anxiety gets so bad I'm literally vomiting. As long as you're careful not to take it regularly it's fine (I never take it for more than 3 days in a row). I think focusing on restabilising is the best thing to do now, and you can work out the plan for the future when you're coming from a clearer place. Sending you much love and good vibes xx
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Hello RabJT
I am so sorry that you are suffering and my heart goes out to you.
My trusty Meno book claims that the jittery, internal shaking sensations are caused by low Oestrogen and this was certainly my experience as they only began when I was post meno.
If your Gynae thinks that Histamine and Adrenalin are also having an impact then increasing Oestrogen will not solve the problem alone. Does your specialist subscribe to the 'less is more' approach to adding Oestrogen which I know some NHS Consultants favour?
Sorry for the questions but you are clearly working hard to think this whole thing through and I admire you for that, especially as you are feeling so unwell atm.
Take care and sending hugs to you.
K.
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Hi
Sorry I haven't been around for a while. I've just been busy and haven't had much to report. Qlaira is still working well for me. My sleep is still disturbed a lot of the time but not all the time. I've had more spotting/breakthrough bleeding this month but, apart from that, it's all been good. My main worry is what I'll do if/when my GP decides I'm too old to stay on it. Or if supply is disrupted.
I've missed so much and I haven't caught up with all the posts but I'm really sorry things are so bad for you Reb. I know you don't want to tell the doctor about your darkest thoughts and I understand but I do think it's important to tell someone how bad you're feeling. Can you talk to your partner?
Gilla and Crispy, it sounds like things are looking up a bit for both of you. I'm so pleased :)
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Hi ladies. How is everyone doing???
I'm not good. Not been feeling right at all since Friday. Headachy, exhausted, sick. Then last night I had vertigo spins in bed... Awful. Those were my original symptoms. Which I now think we're due to estrogen surges.
So, my only thought is, the estrogen from microgynon kind of accumulates... Maybe it's now stabalised (mood fine) but is now constantly too high for me???
Just so fed up of this. I have eloine in the cupboard... But I'd rather not swap... But really feeling ill.
Any thoughts?
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It does sounds like high oestrogen symptoms crispy. But why it only happened from Friday I’m not sure unless it was a high oestrogen point in your normal cycle and compounded by the oestrogen in the pill. Is microgynon a 30mcg pill? Sorry things are rough still. Good your mood is steady, to be honest thats my main symptom.
I haven’t started Eloine yet I’m actually going to try Cerelle the mini pill first. Keep chopping and changing my mind but need to start somewhere.
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Thanks scampi.
It's not actually just started on Thurs, this is my latest bout. Had this at least every week since my mood settled. Some days rougher than others. Parti ulaeky bad since Thurs and then the vertigo spins.
Yes, microgynon is 30mg estrogen, nut is the most potent prog which means it should have less estrogenic effect. 🤷♀️. I'm so scared of swapping. But I cavt walk around feeling like I have the flu 4 days out of every 7 😬.
How come you've decided on mini pill now??? I was on cerazette before these combined pills. Used to be on it befiore all this and it was grand. But not now...
I'm looking at eloine. Maybe I'll give it another 7 days... See where I get to... X
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I agree you can’t put up with those symptoms! I’m so sorry crispy.
I’ve never tried the mini pill and I have added complication of histamine/mast cell issues for which oestrogen is the devil so thought I need to try one. I’ll try mini pill first and if that goes pear shaped I’ll try Eloine. I just know when I had the Mirena coil it helped my cyclical mood symptoms a few years ago. So I’m just using that as my decision to try another progesterone format! I’ve felt terrible todsy and think I’m ovulating it’s like falling off a cliff mentally x
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Ah. I see your plan scampi. Yes, sounds good.
Is there a reason you wouldn't go back to mirena??
I'm sorry you're feeling bad today too. Its just do awful. I've had this for 3 years now. Do fed up of it.
I'll give it a week, if no better, I'll make thd switch to eloine. Gutting to live through 8 weeks of torturous moods only to feel better in my moods. Grrrr. Now the physical symptoms. Every one of the 30mg combined pills has got me. I felt poisoned on some of them. I've near enough tried them all.
I did try 20mg last year, but felt rubbish, but I didn't give it long. I guess that's my next stop.
Cerazette works a treat for stopping my period etc...but bit, thd pmt I was getting was horrific.
When are you ready to start??? X
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I still have the Mirena in which I tolerate and stops my heavy periods. It’s just trying oestrogel last April for four months set my histamine off again which I’m still battling. So I guessed progesterone somehow helped me last time so I’ll try again. I feel bad on climbing oestrogen, ovulation and pre period so just want it all shut down! But as you’ve found it’s not that easy.
Have you tried Mirena and oestrogen patch or gel crispy? X
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Interesting. I was feeling bad in first 2 weeks of cycle too... And I have tons of allergies... 🤔.
Anyway, so are u trying cerelle on top of mirena to shut down ovulation??? Cerazette certainly shut mine down and, I believe, it keeps estrogen at a low level.
No, I've not tried mirena. Don't fancy it to be honest. Lack of control etc... But mostly because on the mini pill my moods were awful, so I dont think solo prog is what I need. Also, I'm not ready for hrt. I tried femoston in Dec... Was horrific. My own estrogen is clearly too high or surging, so I'm guessing it would continue to do that on the mirena. So yes, I want shut down...
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Yes I’m keeping the Mirena in (as I guess the pill may not work and I don’t want to lose Mirena) so I’ll try Cerelle to shut down the cycle. I don’t really bleed now so it’s not that, I just want to stop the hormone fluctuation. My gp said not all mini pills stop ovulation but Cerelle and cerazette tend to.
Can you start it at any point in your cycle do you know?
I was wondering what happened re oestrogen when on the mini pill so interesting it keeps it at low level - I presume not too low?!
Makes sense that Mirena wouldn’t work for you, I think it stops ovulation in some but not many. And like you say you want shut down. HRT not for me either. Was told initially the oestrogel would even me out. It improved my mood somewhat but I still struggled on the climbing oestrogen days and got loads of histamine symptoms like nausea, brain fog, fatigue, jittery symptoms, memory loss and hair shedding! My FSH is fine and I guessed I was in peri until I went through all the above and now I’ve no idea. Pmdd, histamine issues etc I guess.
X
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I think you can start cerelle any day. I'm guessing with the mirena stopping the bleeds you might not know where u are anyway!!!
I'm not 100% sure on the estrogen. I think I read it on this forum. Certainly for me last year, I felt lacking in estrogen. Cerazette certainly stopped all bleeding and ovulation for me. So great in that respect. You're right though. Not everyone benefits from that. I've got a friend trying it just now and she has constant spotting.
My husband is trying to convince me I have a bug just now. But I pointed out I cant get a bug every week or so... 🤔
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There’s lots of ‘helpful’ advice around isn’t there :) we must all have the same bug!
I’ll maybe start Cerelle soon then, I’m just ovulating now. On Mirena I get a spot or two so I know where I am in my cycle and could pretty much predict based on how I feel too!
So maybe you are nearing the swap to Eloine then. It does sound like the higher dose oestrogen is causing you issues. X
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OK, so I'm still feeling dreadful. Headacy, nose issue, mild nausea, fatigue. Lower backache, mild sore throat.
I've looked back and I felt like this 4 weeks ago - that's when I blamed the covid jab...
I'm pretty sure I'm not 'ill'. 4 weeks is an interesting timescale...
Thoughts????
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CrispyChick, maybe you can try Microgynon 20 first? That way you will know for sure it's high estrogen. Eloine contains a different progestin, drosperinone, which has a different activity. It's a anti- androgenic progestin and surpresses testosterone, mostly used for treating acne and hirutisme.
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I'm open to that, but I don't think you can get microgynon 20 in the UK...
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Maybe ask your pharmacist? Or search for ethinylestradiol 0.02/ levonorgestrel 0,1.
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Crispy what part of your natural cycle is this Worse ill feeling falling in do you know? Just wondering if it’s at a high oestrogen phase or pre period etc
Interesting about the Eloine suppressing testosterone I didn’t know that x
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Crispy I just caught up with these messages and my first thought was "this sounds like when Crispy thought it was the covid jab". What I'm really confused with though is do you think this is your natural hormones underneath the Pill causing this - is that what you meant by "original symptoms"? Or do you think this is the estrogen side effects of the Pill? I'm trying to work out if it's Pill side effects why you would be ok some days and not ok others (and also to not have had these symptoms for the first few weeks). Vertigo symptoms etc are awful - a bit like migraines, that's not liveable with :'(
Feel so bad for you, wish I could offer you some good advice xx
I didn't know that about drosperinone and testosterone either - not a problem for me as my natural testosterone levels are high anyway, but does explain why my sex drive has completely disappeared! But that's the least of my worries.
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Thanks ladies. It's so good to know I'm not alone.
I honestly have no idea what is going on. But yes, this is totally crispy post covid jab...although even worse. 😭. I agree gilla, if it was side affect of the pill, I'd have it all the time, or certainly earlier in my taking. So does that mean it's my own?!? I'm defo not ovulating (because I get bad pain) I have no spotting... No hint of a period. So I'm at a loss. Also no idea where I would be if I were still cycling underneath scampi 🤷♀️. I wonder if it's like a shift, like you get with the sleepless thing gilla?!?!
This just seems to be me... On the pill. Or off the pill. Grrr.
I sorted out the bathroom cupboard today and, in doing so, found all the pills I have tried in the last year and half... There were a lot. Unfortunately, I had no recollection of trying millinette 20mg...as well as the 30mg. So I checked bsck on my diary and it was not good 😬. So I have tried two 20mg pills already. Admittedly not for long.
I can't find any trace of a 20mg with levongesteral in UK. But, if I am going to change, why not try a new prog too. 🤷♀️. I hear you alicess on the testosterone thing, but that prog is also sold as the best for pmt... Mine was terrible on nothing. Admittedly my mood is quite stable just now. Ironic since microgynon gave me 8 weeks of grief.
I honestly don't know ladies. It's like the pill just doesn't suit me anymore.
I think if I can, I will stay on a bit longer, see if this lifts again. It's only been 3 months. Only...🤣🤣🤣. Mind you, I am getting the nose/head pressure daily... That's not good.
My only other option would be back to the mini pill. But my moods were terrible on it... There just seems to be no solution. It's awful.
How are you getting on with yasmin gilla???
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If this is also how you are not on any Pill at all (is that what you meant?) then are you still sure that what you're experiencing now is hormonal? Obviously I don't want to lead you down a rabbit hole as I totally understand what that's like, I'm just thinking about things like Epstein Barr or all kinds of different things that could give you flu like / vertigo symptoms. For it to be your own hormones and not sure effects of the Pill (which it doesn't sound like, if it's happening cyclically) that would mean your own hormones are still fluctuating underneath... not impossible I suppose?
I've been fine, but it's only been a week since my last insomnia / night sweats / period pains ended so I've got a long way to go. My boobs are ridiculously gigantic and painful... more so than when I was pregnant, on Zoely or on HRT. So I know my estrogen is still sky high and at some point it will come down which is what I think triggers the episodes for me... so I'm sort of waiting for when that happens. The only time I'll be able to say it's "working" is if my boobs were normal ish (so I knew my body had adjusted to the Pill) and i had gone at least a couple of months without it happening.
What I do find interesting is that the boob situation for me clearly shows that the estrogen in normal pills is SO much stronger than in Zoely or Qlaira. Whether that's good or bad I guess depends on your circumstances
Wish I could help more Crispy- always around to talk it through anyway!
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??? You're making me think. I've been pretty sure it's all hormonal for a while now. Been down so many tests at the beginning.
OK. So at the start of this hell I had serious constant dizziness, severe nausea, bouts of vertigo and felt extremely ill. I got rid of a bit of that using the mini pill. But with every pill I still get moments of wooziness and odd nausea (like motion sickness). It's not been bad in microgynon until this week. Millinette for example, I was dizzy every day. Along with that poisoned feeling.
No. I guess I'm not the same on nothing. On nothing I had days where I felt dizzy and ill (I do feel a big like that today, but I've defo not had that every day). I also had severe pmt. That's gone on the microgynon. Woo hoo. I also had severe ovulation pain that lasted days (don't need to put up with that). But I am feeling pretty ill and woozy like this week... And yes, it does feel similar to what I was getting on nothing.
To put it in context 7 days after I stopped the mini pill and started a combined pill I got horrific vertigo and nausea... So that's kinda why I think it's all hormonal.
I guess, the only possibility could be my own estrogen doing some surging in the background... But why?!?! It's soooo frustrating.
To be honest, I'd take 2 days of this every month. But it's been the odd day here and there too. And I'm already on day 6 of this 'episode'. It's too much. Then there's the daily head/nose thing...i think that's side affect. But then... No pmt. No pmt!!!! If I'm being honest, how I feel now is how I felt on the lower dose 20mg pills.... But the higher estrogen gives me migraines.... Ahhhhh.
So glad you're having a good week. Sometimes u need to hear others issues, to realise you're having a good week. I hope it continues. What do u think happens, during your sleepless week then??? Drop in estrogen???
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It's really confusing isn't it? It does sound from what you've said like it's somehow connected to your hormones, from when you went on the mini pill to the pill.... which would indicate it's something to do with Estrogen, I just can't work out from what you've said what or where the connection is! If I were in your shoes i would probably be paying for the rhythm profile hormone tests I'm currently doing, to see if I could try to correlate the "episodes" with any changes in hormone levels (it would also tell you if your own hormones are still fluctuating underneath). As Reb mentioned earlier, most doctors scoff at these tests and say only blood not saliva tests are dependable, but my own previous experience with them about 4 years ago was that they demonstrated exactly what I was experiencing and when, so I've personally felt they were reliable enough for me to get an indication of what's going on. Not cheap though - £235, and no guarantee it will show anything up.
Yes two days a month isn't so bad, but when it's unpredictable and drags into longer then that's not liveable with.
Yes I'm 99% certain that my symptoms are being caused by a drop in estrogen. This happens naturally at day 14 of your cycle and then again a few days later and continues to drop until day 1. It matches exactly the pattern of when I experienced my problems every month (plus the symptoms like night sweats etc). Obviously since starting the Pill I can't tie it into cyclical stuff and feel that my own body hormones have still been going on underneath, hopefully just while I'm adjusting. I've no idea why my body has become sensitive to drops in estrogen (because tests have shown my levels aren't theoretically low in themselves) but hey ho.
I really hope this episode passes for you soon xx
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I really can't work it out either. I think I'll suffer through this episode and see where I get to.
It was like a weird shift last Friday though. We were on a long walk and on the way back I was overcome with immense fatigue. Just felt like I'd overdone it. That night I didn't sleep at all (very odd for me). Since then the fatigue has been immense. Now my throat is pretty sore, my head and back ache and I feel totally run down. But I'm on holiday and doing very little... Sleeping plenty.
I guess when you read other people's stories, a lot say the pill works until a point into menopause. Then they get symptoms. Maybe I'm already at that point? Or maybe that just shows that your own hormones are always breaking through a bit. I don't know. It's all so odd.
There are articles out there about getting flu like symptoms before a period... Maybe for me, the pill is amplifying the hormone drop... No idea why that would be though, as it's meant to be flattening. ???
Where do u get the tests done??? Do they explain the results?
Are you doing tests just now??? So, in theory, on the pill, I read our prog and estrogen should both read low. There should be no peaks. X
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I know that at times when I would have natural PMT (before all the real issues started last year) I would feel like I was "coming down with something" - a run-down and fragile kind of feeling, but definitely not an actual sore throat - that was why I wondered if it could be something else for you, but it's so hard to know when you factor in that the Pill has seemed to amplify it for you. Most of the stories I've read are from women being told they need to come off the Pill and onto HRT rather than it no longer working for them... but I guess there are so many variances!
The saliva tests are done at home, you freeze them and send them off. You have to order it through a healthcare provider who then sends you over the results. They're not designed for women on HRT or contraception so I know my results won't be able to be "judged" against a normal hormonal cycle like last time, but as you say in theory my understanding is that the prog and estrogen when we're on a monophasic pill should be flat - there shouldn't be significant variances. I don't think it'll be low, but I think it should be steady, and that's what I'm interested in seeing (and also if when I have one of my "episodes" it correlates to any changes in my hormone levels). If you're interested I can send you the results page that I got last time I did it a few years ago so you can see what it looks like? I don't want to convince you to do it though, as you could pay £235 and not find out anything!! And as I say doctors scoff at salvia tests - it's just from my own personal experience I know it worked fine for me before xx
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Thanks for that. I'll give it some thought. I guess I need to see what happens next first.
The nose feeling is really strong - so could it be that amplified?! Or, like you say, thd feeling some get before a period. Period flu I read it was called.
Interestingly I have a friend who started on the mini pill last week, changing from combined pill. She felt lilt this last week. So, Could suggest hormonal change. Or, we both could have a bug 🤣🤣🤣
I can just never get straight on anything. So fed up of it all.
Will see where I am in a week I think...
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Good luck ladies. I’m starting on the mini pill soon. Can you tell if scared, I keep putting it off!
Interestingly I had genetic testing done and gut testing done recently due to the histamine issues and they reckon I don’t have a problem with high oestrogen (which can cause many people to have histamine issues especially in peri menopause) but I likely have issues with being able to detoxify oestrogen which may be causing a lot of my issues and why I’m better when I have progesterone in my cycle to bring the oestrogen down. There’s a supplement by invivo you can take to help detoxify it. Anyway worth a try I guess. I suppose it made me think a lot of our issues may be down to how our own individual bodies break hormones down or process them rather there being too much or too little of one.
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Scampidoodle, one of the reasons progesterone is anti- estrogenic is because it increases estrone- forming enzymes in the uterus. Estrone has only
4 % of the potency of estradiol (100%) and is a partial antagonist of estradiol. Estrone can be converted back to estradiol and vice versa. Estrone -forming enzyme is 17 HSD type 2
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/17%CE%B2-Hydroxysteroid_dehydrogenase
Women on HRT have a much higher level of estrone and the ratio of estradiol / estrone on tablets is 1:5
By the way; all treatmens with estrogen will decrease testosterone as estrogen raises SHBG which binds testosterone, and estrogen to a lesser extend,
and decreases it's bio-availability. Levonorgestrel (Mirena) can lower SHBG but it depends how much estrogen is been taken alongside the progestin.
CrispyChick, everytime you stop the pill for one of two days, especially in the first 3 cycles you will create a imbalance and the pill will not work as it should.
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Thanks Alicess.
That's 4 full packs of microgynon. No breaks. I'm done. Feeling dreadful and got a migraine last night that is still lingering. Exactly what happened after my ill feeling week last month.
I've got daily nose pressure/head pressure, which turns into migraines at times. I just can't go on with it. It's exactly what happened with the other 30mg pills.
I think my only option now is to try Eloine. And hope
...
Failing that I could go back on cerazette... But my pmt was horrific.
Feeling deflated. :'(
Good luck scampi x
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I’m so sorry crispy, you can’t go on like this so I understand the need to change, you can’t live like this. X
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Good luck with the change to Eloine or cerazette, will be thinking of you x
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Change of plan.
It's been 4 packs straight. This pattern happened last month and this month only. Worth a 4 day break???
My friend just told me she could go 3 months on marvelon then get a migraine, so took break, then could do another 3 months before migraine...
Feeling very sick, but it could be migraine over hang. So 4 day break then reassess...
Good luck scampi. Its always worth a try xx
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That’s worth a try. You’ll know pretty soon after taking the break if your symptoms ease then you can re assess. Good luck x
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I do find it interesting that you've had these episodes four weeks apart, and I also had my episodes on Zoely four weeks apart, which is part of the reason why I am sure it was my original hormones still fluctuating underneath. It does make me wonder about whether it could be the same for you, not that that's any help to you (or to me!). I have an appointment with a gynae on Monday morning and have a list of questions to ask her, some of which are:
- what dose of Pill is recommended to suppress all natural hormone function (and is it correct that Zoely/Qlaira wouldn't because of strength of estrogen)
- how long it normally takes to suppress all of your own natural hormonal fluctuations when you start the Pill
- if Yasmin (30mcg Estrogen) doesn't seem to suppress my own hormones, are there any other options or is that the end of the road.
So I'll let you know what she says Crispy in case it's useful to you also xx
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Thanks so much Gilla. I really appreciate that.
My head /nose still feels awful, so I'll take the 4 day break and see where I'm at.
In all honestly, I'd have no prob having a migraine once every 3 months... But I'm not convinced yet that that would be my lot. Lol. Plus last weeks symptoms were bad too. I do feel a bit periody avd I think I had the slightest hint of spotting today... So seems like as good a time as any to break.
I'm pretty sure thd whole weeks symptoms have been hormonal. At the end of 4 packs, that doesn't make sense... So yes, really appreciate the answer to your last question... 🤔 Xx
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How is the migraine Crispy? Hope you’re getting some relief.
I had a dark day yesterday so ended up starting the mini pill last night so will see how that goes. Feel brighter today guess I would have regardless of the pill! Fingers crossed x
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Good luck scampi. When u say dark day, do you mean low mood???
Fingers crossed for you. I've got a friend trialling it just now. She gets a lot of spotting, but with the mirena as well, you shouldn't experience that.
I've still got nippy head. Just on paracetomol and ibuprofen now. A lot of it is still feeling deep behind my nose. I guess this is what I was getting most days, rather than migraine. So I'm on day 2 of no pill. Despite the head, my mood is fine (that's odd for me. Most other 30mg pills I'd have felt a massive drop).
So, I'll do 4 day break... Then have a, massive decision to make on day 5 :-*
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Yes just really hopelessly depressed. :-\ It’s rubbish. The only thing that ever changes is my hormones.
Is your friend trialling mini pill for peri?
Sorry the head is still bad and I hope the break from the pill resets things a bit. It’s hard making these decisions on our own with no one guiding you through it.
Hope the appt goes well tomorrow Gilla x
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Sooo nauseous on second day of pill, is this how it goes? X
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Oh scampi... This whole thing is awful.
I'm sorry you're feeling nauseous. It's one of my constant on/off symptoms, so yes, I think that's how it goes. Renrmber I had 8 weeks of pure hellish moods on microgynon before that started to settle.
I get the nausea as my hormones go up and down. Everything you read tells you it's estrogen in pills causes nausea, but for me it's definitely fluctuations.
You are going to be taking a lot of progesterone though with the mini pill on top of mirena. Remind me again why that's what you've been recommended???
I'm still headachy. Day 3 off the pill. My tummy feels like a period is coming. That's fine... But this headache /nose stuff is driving me insane. And I was nauseous yesterday too. 🙄
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Just thought I'd give a quick update after speaking to my gynae this morning. Didn't really shed anything mind blowing I didn't know already but it was definitely worth speaking to her if only just to sense check everything.
She said I'm almost certainly in early menopause from what I've been experiencing, regardless of my estrogen and FSH level test which she said are not fully reliable markers. She said low estrogen in non menopausal women doesn't tend to cause night sweats and middle of the night insomnia, which I thought was interesting, so she is pretty sure it is early menopause for me.
She agreed that Zoely was likely too weak to suppress my own hormones and that Yasmin was fine to take if it works. I asked the question if it doesn't what the next step would be and she said either (a) Qlaira, which she's had a lot of success with (something about the phased action working well) or (b) HRT. I questioned HRT and whether it would stop the fluctuations underneath (I took it for all of (!) 10 days just before starting Zoely and it didn't stop the problems) and she said quite often you get women who feel great for a month or two and then need to come back as the dose wasn't high enough, so it may just be a case of trial and error until you find a high enough dose to suppress. She said there would be no point switching to another Pill if Yasmin doesn't work, and she said I'd know whether that was the case in another couple of months (so 3 months total). "No point" only in a sense of suppressing your own hormones - if there are side effects of that particular Pill then of course it would make sense to try another.
Interestingly she also mentioned what you said Scampi - that often it is not about what test result is low or high on paper, but about how a woman's body individually reacts to certain levels or fluctuations. Some women may be more sensitive to certain hormones or fluctuations than others and they can cause different strength side effects in different people (eg some may react badly to low progesterone with anxiety as the main side effect for example)
Like I say no "wow" moments, but it did feel like a validation and also with the HRT that it could be another avenue to try if the Pill really doesn't work.
Hope this helps ladies xx
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That’s good Gilla to get some validation at least. So you’re going to persevere with yasmin for now and then see? I guess hrt as the next step. Did you pay privately or nhs?
Nausea seems to go in the daytime it’s like I can feel it in the night and waking then it’s gone. I’ll persevere for now and see what next month brings. I started it early so prob in the week before my period at the mo so it won’t have stopped anything yet.
I think the thinking behind Mirena staying in was because I’m settled on it, not to rock the boat and mini pill may not work out in which case I’ll have to come off it so want to keep my Mirena in. I guess there’s no real logic to any of it! X
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Yeah, thanks gilla. Useful to hear a specialist opinion.
I've just taken another triptan as I've got yet another migraine. This is day 3 off the pill. It's killing me with migraines 😬.
I see her point on supression. Unfortunately, in my case, I think all the different pills give me different side affects. 😳. I do think they supress... Although last week's dodgy ill feeling was slightly suss.
I'm not convinced the 20mg pills supress enough, but, given the migraines, I suspect i`m heading that way...
I'm not convinced on the hrt thing though. I too only lasted 10 days because the estrogen was far too much... So there's no way I'd be going for more... I don't think it will work until my estrogen drops. But I'm not getting your symptoms of night sweats etc... So I think I'm high estrogen at mo.
Interesting feedback on the pill. There was a lady in newbie thread, only 40, been on pill a while, but doesn't feel it is working. So clearly for some, symptoms break through.
I spoke to a 52 year old friend yesterday. She's been on microgynon for years, still on it. No probs.... Now, she could be a lucky one, or could be later than a lot of us, but I'm thinking once you're on and established, it can really work for some...
Are u taking the new pill at night scampi??? Why do they think you need a double dose of progesterone??? Or is it because the mini pill stops ovulation, mirena doesn't necessarily???
And how are you feeling on yasmin Gilla???
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Like your friend crispy if I find something that works they’ll have to fight to get it off me at whatever age!
When you both tried hrt what was it? I tried oestrogel and felt good mentally but lots of side effects physically, prob as I don’t detoxify it allegedly. Certainly tipped my histamine issues into over drive.
I too don’t get night sweats and hot flushes and I don’t think I’m menopausal, my mood is the main issue. I have low oestrogen but low FSH and oestrogen def improves my mood but I can’t hack it. Feels similar to you crispy!
Keeping the Mirena has no benefit for me with what’s going on with me really, it’s just staying as back up. It doesn’t stop me ovulating so I need the mini pill to do that really. Which apparently Cerelle does in 97% cycles so that’s good. We’ll see if it helps my moods. I know it’s not known for its mood boosting abilities but the Mirena helped me a few years ago so maybe I’m just weird. I do take it at night so I feel like o get headaches and nausea in the night that I’m aware of. Today I’ve felt really teary and low. But then I did on Saturday before I even started the pill so can’t blame it entirely.
Crispy when you said your moods were all over the shop for 8 weeks in what sense?
I guess my options are Mirena, then Eloine then god knows.
I do hope the migraine settles soon crispy. You deserve a break xx
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That makes sense scampi.
I'm defo in the weird category. I don't think I'm menopausal either... But I'm defo severely imbalanced, and probably due to age.
I tried femoston tablets. 2 weeks of estradiol alone - obviously much lower than what the pill gives me, but topping up my own. Geezo... I was all over the place. I was defo overdosing on estrogen. That's why I so der of I suffer so much trying to get on a pill, because until suppressed, it must add to your own 🤷♀️
With microgynon my mood was really angy and low at times depressed. Lasted 8 full weeks. Then gone! Replaced with migraines 🤣🤣🤣. If I don't laugh, I'll cry!!!! The point is... That was a pure side affect avd lasted at least 8 weeks.
Oh yes, I'm totally with my friend. I told her yesterday to never stop 🤣🤣 I wish I had never stopped taking the pill before all this!!!
Still don't know what to do. Surely if it is the pill causing the migraines/nose issue, it should be easing as I'm day 3 of break. I'm loathe to throw 3 months of microgynon away... >:(
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I guess it might take longer than 3 days but hopefully not much longer.
Well we are both in the weird category then! Here’s to being weird!
I wish I’d never come off the pill when I was 30! I mean I’ve had two kids since which would have been impossible but I wish I’d gone straight back on it after!
The moods sound tough and you did well to last the 8 weeks.
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I so wish I hadn't come off Scampi. I'd just turned 40 and came off because my husband forgot to pack my toiletry bag when we went to visit his parents... I wish I'd just taken a week off and gone straight back on. But hey ho!!!! >:(
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I know I'm grasping at straws here, but im still pondering.
This nose feeling and subsequent headaches and migraines are only appearing since being 8 weeks into microgynon. Also had it last year on my trials of 30mg pills.
Lots of googling tells me that hormones, including contraceptive pill, can cause non allergic rhinitis... So basically swelling.
Now I already have allergic rhinitis, but my allergies are feeling under control and I'm back on my anti histamines.
I wonder if I'm getting non allergic rhinitis, swelling causing sinus headaches...
I'm not expecting anyone to have any answers on this... Although if they did, that would be amazing!!!
I am awaiting turbinate reduction surgery (due to my allergies and polyps) ... I wonder if that might help...
I so don't want to come off the pill 🙈😩 but if its causing this... Grrrr
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It sounds like it may have exacerbated an existing condition maybe? I guess if you have allergies you may be sensitive to histamine anyway then taking more oestrogen increases your histamine levels in the body and therefore would exacerbate allergies. Hence the worse symptoms.
You can eliminate histamine in your diet or cut down. If you google high histamine foods you can see if you normally eat or drink a lot of them. If you do try cutting out for a week or two and see if it makes a difference?
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Hi girls
Just checking in, bit out of synch with this thread now. I'm on day 27 of defcon 4 adrenaline and high histamine (actually today is defcon 3, or possibly 2) and period is due tomorrow, so if you are into prayers, say one for me, as I hope to Christ it arrives and resets this utter utter nightmare. I'm rather ashamed I've only got through this hell with buckets of tears and low dose valium.
Reason for post, I've had my nuffield tests back, due to cock up of Easter, I didn't get to test on the worst, worst, worst day of symptoms, but day 22. I was still highly adrenalised, very shaky, and very high histamine. I expected my oestrogen to be HIGH and weirdly it's LOW. It's 293 (82 - 1251) - normally it's way over the top of the range like Floo.
Given the test is only £35, I think I'm going to do what Floo does and book a bundle, and then book the days to coincide with points in my cycle when I'm symptomatic, but now I'm really bloomin' confused as I was certain I was in a climbing estrogen loop, and I'm not! Also interestingly, given I had to hang on for tests into second half of cycle, I was doing 100mg utro vaginally, every other day, and had done 4 doses and had had two days off before testing and my prog was 34 (their note says above 30 indicates ovulation, clearly that might not be the case for me, but interesting such a low dose put me in the normal ./ fertile range).
I have that MTHFR thingy, which is too complicated for me to understand, my folate is now normal as I'd finally been tolerating methylfolate after my iron infusion, but my homocysteine results are ALSO LOW (again I suspected high), so think my first port of call is going to be my func med doc rather than Louise Newsom (had the form through from them and an invite to book my slot, I wrote them a very firmly worded questionnaire, saying if you don't think you can help, don't give me a slot, I'm in the last chance saloon here, no time or money to waste!).
I am wondering whether there's some other trigger for the histamine too (I do have cPTSD, histamine is part of fight or flight, and have just had my heart broken over ending a relationship, long story, right decision due to his nutty ex wife, bloody difficult), unless my hormones are swinging wildly and I just haven't caught it on a test. Func Med wants me to do the Dutch test, to see how I'm processing my hormones, but not sure it's worth the trouble? May also do the rhythm test, or a whole load of bloods or something. I need to work out what's happening in my body (seeing as they haven't invented the Aliens body scanner yet), like Gilla I don't get why nobody is interested in matching up really high symptomatic days with hormone levels. Is there anything else that it'd help to know? FSH, LH?
I'm now off work for two more weeks, this truly has been the worst bloody month of my life, I'm skinter than skint and just about hanging on to my sanity ...
What on earth is going on? Any ideas?
Reb
x
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Hi Reb.
Sorry, absolutely no idea of wgat is happening with you. But wanted to post to say I had read. You were going to be trying a pill, were you not??? Would it be better to just go and try it...?
Mind you, I'm in headache hell. Day 5 of my constant headache/migraine/nose pressure. So weird.
I'm on day 4 of my break from microgynon. Apart from the horrific headaches (they seem to move to different parts of my head too) then period has arrived fine. All totally manageable. Mood fine (unusual for me on a break) No idea what I'm going to do... But I'm thinking try back on microgynon tomoz in the hope the main migraines the last few days have been due to dropping hormones. But... I only took the break because of migraine...
;D ;D ;D going round in circles. I'm laughing again, or I'll cry!!!
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I was wondering how you'd been getting on Reb, I'm so sorry it's still so bad for you. Interesting about your estrogen readings. My estrogen reading from a blood test in November before I went on Zoely and during my symptomatic period was 245 so even lower than yours (and a huge climb down from the sky high levels it had been for the previous two years). I was toldby the first rubbish doctor I saw it's not low enough to be causing my issues as it's still considered at the low end of normal range. It was only when I spoke to my gynae this week that she tended not to place so much importance in either the estrogen level or the FSH because they can vary so much depending on whether you've ovulated or not, and because as I mentioned in her experience women can be sensitive to different things which is why she diagnoses on symptoms primarily.
Low estrogen also causes a drop in serotonin which is connected to the flight or flight (and also regulates temperature, hence the night sweats for me). Might be worth researching a bit.
I'm still doing the rhythm test although I admit I've been a bit lax and not done it every other day like you're supposed to, but as I'm not testing in a cycle I think it's ok. I'd like to share with you ladies the results page so you can get a feel for what it looks like - not sure of the best way to do that? Again I'm not pushing it, as I know doctors scoff at saliva tests and it is £235, I just know previously it was accurate for me.
My night sweats started with a vengeance about 4 nights ago and the last 2 nights I've had middle of the night insomnia along with them, though I've so far managed to alleviate it a bit with taking valium at 4am. It's far from ideal, but I'm being as careful as I can be with it.
Crispy do you think the migraines are connected to the nose feeling or separate? I guess I'm thinking if you have surgery that will hopefully address that problem, and you might be able to stay on Microgynon - but not if the migraines are separate and continue. Just one thing to add - when I get my episodes I also get a stuffy inflamed nose feeling. I read low estrogen can cause this in the days before your period. But I know that is counter to what you've experienced with high estrogen etc xx
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Thanks gilla. That's my 4 day break over. Had migraines/nose issue every day. It's been awful. So, on my break, estrogen would have dropped significantly, right?
I do think it's connected to my nose, but I can't rule out my nose issue being connected to the pill. It happened last summer on millinette... But not so into migraines. Everything I read says the estrogen in the pill can increase sinus stuffiness... So I'm left wondering. But, this isn't a little stuffiness. It's full on nose burning , pressure and migraines. Sigh. I am speaking to gp on Mon...
Just taken my first microgynon again, will see what happens. I feel like I'm being tortured. I certainly had none of this in the first 8 weeks whilst my mood was awful ::).
How gutting you're back in an insomnia phase - can you track it? How many weeks has it been??? Does the pill help with other things??? Could u survive this once a month??? X
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Blimey, nose burning sounds awful - that doesn't sound right at all. I wish I could offer you some words of wisdom, it's just super confusing isn't it! I feel like I keep contradicting myself in what I'm saying to you (I'm just saying stuff as it comes into my head!!) but everyone (even the gynae yesterday) told me my chronic constipation (it's really, really bad) isn't likely to be connected to the Pill, or it isn't a "known" side effect, but I am fairly certain it is... because it started at exactly the same time, there were no other changes, I have always suffered from something similar previously in the the last 7-10 days of my natural cycle, and my diet is absolutely fine - I'm eating more fruit, veg and lentils than you can imagine! And they know there's nothing sinister wrong now. So my point is, I think even the experts don't know everything there is to know yet about hormones and their knock on effect to other seemingly random things, ie. like the situation with your nose (that's the long winded point I was trying to make!). I think only you can get a real sense from your experiences about the connection, but it is soooo difficult when we can't see what's happening with our hormone levels on a day to day basis.
If anyone would like to see the results page of the Rhythm test so you can see what you get, drop me an email on [email protected] as I don't think I can upload them here.
Yup, this week is 1 month on Yasmin ::) And therefore a month since the previous episode, and then a month before that etc. It's not to the day, but it's pretty much. I am just hoping beyond hope that this is still my body adjusting to the hormones in the Pill and that it will eventually become longer between any episodes - that's the most hopeful I can be right now :-\ When I get the results of my Rhythm tests (which won't be for a good couple of months yet by the time I've finished them) I'll at least be able to see what's been going on (or not) at the times when I'm getting these episodes
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It sounds like the migraines and the constipation are both brought on by the pill. I think we know our bodies best and it’s just too much coincidence. I hope both issues sort themselves out eventually.
I started mini pill Saturday, the nausea and headaches have passed. Had a couple of really depressed hopeless days and feared the worst and thought it was the pill but then I feel ok today so I don’t think it is. Plus this was happening pre pill I can have terrible depressed days and then days where I feel absolutely fine. I’m at the end of my cycle, prob day 20 of my 24 days cycle so I guess next month would be when the pill starts to prevent ovulation and I need to give it longer to see x
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Hi All
Thanks Gilla, that's helpful info, I'm debating whether to roll the dice with Louise Newsom's clinic (honestly they'll think I'm a nutter desperado from my questionnaire) but I simply don't know what the hell is going on, I feel SO ILL. I've been so adrenalised, really thought I was going to have a stroke or a heart attack and absolutely NOT putting exogenous estrogen on top of this nightmare, I've literally been at the lowest ebb of my entire life, I CANNOT live like this! I'm just too scared to try another pill, I really will lose the will to live (and I'm not joking). I have honestly felt I was going to lose my mind, my poor mum, one day I was just nigh on hysterical with despair (the day I rang the GP and begged for valium!). Func med not available until July!! I really need some help, I need someone to get in the trenches with me and figure this out.
I was so sure it was high estrogen that was causing this histamine loop, but maybe it's the fluctuations. I might do what Floo did and just book a series of blood draws through the month, say I dunno, six or seven, and just see what that tells me, I could do with a doctor advising me really.
Anyway, period is here, feel terrible pain in my uterus, and that horrible allergic-y feeling, I know this mast cell hoo ha affects prostoglandins in the endometrium, suspect it'll be a stinker, but at least my ferritin is still over 300 so I've got a bit of iron to waste until I can stabilise.
My skin looks dreadful, so think I'm really low E currently.
Honestly if men were suffering this they'd have figured it out!
Reb
x
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For what it's worth I think the blood draws are a great idea - although I know it's just more money (I have literally spent thousands over the last 18 months on this issue in related stuff) I do feel that adding back in another hormone now when you don't know what you're treating might not help (especially as the estrogen wasn't what you were expecting etc). Even if the blood tests show no correlation with your symptoms, at least you will be able to rule out hormones and look at other possible causes. If I knew how to get regular.blood draws I would absolutely be doing that over the rhythm saliva test. Otherwise i just feel we're trying to treat blind a lot of the time... it's just so frustrating that that level of investigation and care isn't available to us as standard xx
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Hi Reb
I totally know what you are going through, I get the same symptoms. Back in Nov 2019 and Jan 2020 i had some estradiol blood tests and they came back very high which led me to believe I was too high estrogen but I was wrong but I only know that now because of what I have learnt. I recently did 5 estradiol tests that i posted on here that showed really really high levels and then one low one for me and that proved finally that I am low estrogen and the high bloods were just fluctuations. Getting accurate blood levels is like trying to hit a moving target. The menopause doctors say that in Peri blood test are not that helpful because of fluctuations but then they say to test them. If I had just done the one test in March it would have showed very high levels thats why i did more to prove to myself that I'm low estrogen because of my severe life hindering symptoms, I am existing not living and I have been like this for 2 years now.
I don't plan on having any more bloods done until I'm finally well just to see what my levels need to be. If my symptoms had been treated and not had any bloods done I may be well by now and feel a lot of time has been wasted and I have suffered longer because of specialist saying to test levels when I'm peri. I know they do it to see if you are absorbing the HRT but you cant tell if you are absorbing HRT if you are constantly fluctuating, this I believe has made me suffer longer than I should have.
Reb, your Estradiol was low it may not be for some but it would be for me and may be for you.
I feel for all of us that are suffering its awful but we have to hope that we will get there.
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Hi both
I've just emailed Dr Currie on here (£30 email question) with a quick run down, asking her where to start to even pinpoint what the bloody problem is and what if any tests would be helpful to have. Other issue is I think I'm worse not better on all the anti histamines maybe, rebounding possibly and I've been cutting major foods out of my diet for two years now, getting more sensitive not less, something has got to give! I'm really dedicating myself to meditation, yoga, good diet, gut health, stress reduction, focusing on my embodied trauma stuff and just doing everythign within my power to calm my system down (and stay employed to afford the bloody thousands figuring out this pickle is costing!).
Floo I really hear you, did you have the adrenalised thing too? Jittery I can cope with, poisoned even, teary, low, foggy, buzzy, shaky, but on the ceiling feeling like I'm a piece of industrial velcro being ripped in two from the inside out, absolutely bloody not! I honestly fantasised about being dead (not cos I want to be dead, just because I CANNOT live like this, if I was a horse you'd shoot me to put me out of my misery!!). Honestly, never, ever ever experienced anything like the last month, and I've been suffering for years now. Never, ever, ever again!
Floo just remind me what treatment you are on? Are you feeling any better? I just WISH there was a good doctor just willing to puzzle it out with us, it's so unfair.
Gilla, I'm using Nuffield like Floo, turns out they have their own path service (Nuffield Health Path direct), estrogen test is £30 (cheap as chips) plus when I spoke to the bloke, he did me a bundle as I had several things tested, I reckon with a bit of chat they'd do you a deal, I reckon £300ish for ten estrogen tests across the month, if I can get them to let me book on symptomatic days as well as the obvious 1, 7, 14, 21 would be useful info, particularly if keep on with my really rigorous symptom diary (I have one from Nick Panay's clinic, it's a grid, 28 days across the top, 30 symptoms in rows, it's really handy to see your scores 0 being brilliant, 5 being defcon4 - this month I'm straight 5s across all my debilitating symptoms - if anyone would like a PDF send me a message on here and I can send by email)
I am defo getting fluctuations, and I really dont' think my body likes it, but I feel AMAZING on estrogel until the wheels fall off, I felt AMAZING on Qlaira until the wheels fell off, I need to figure out WHY the wheels are falling off!
Anyway, know you all get it, bless you, thank you. Bleed is here in earnest now, feel very vibratey and poorly but adrenaline is at least coming down like I hoped it would.
Thanks again, I'd bet the farm I'm getting low E (I can tell by my skin) but these spikes are also making me ill, no idea what to do about that, other than for now focus on holistic calming stuff and try and restore a bit of equilibrium by giving my body every chance to process, assimilate, settle and feel relaxed and stick with conservative doses of utro second half of cycle. Half tempted to see a herbalist, can't make much more of a hash of it than gynaecology, let's be honest!
Reb
x
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Hi Reb
For me it’s fluctuations and low Estrogen. I tried Eloine as I was on it until Jan 2019, went back on it June 2020 because my symptoms were severe like they are now and the gel I was using loads of just didn’t do anything. I had a brutal few months back on Eloine then I think my own hormones kicked in again ( which they did briefly in March 20, not on Eloine but gel) and gave me some relief for about 5 weeks then downhill again. I stopped Eloine beginning of March this year and it made no difference to my symptoms so now I’m on HRT spray and gel but still not getting there, I know I need more Estrogen. When I did my bloods last month I was just on the spray but it wasn’t enough so added in the gel under guidance But it can’t go quick enough I know I need more but we are at the hands of the specialist going back and forth almost begging to increase the dose because I’ve suffered too long now and just want to get on with it. I didn’t absorb the Estrogen very well if at all and now trying Sandrena but nothing happening yet. I know I won’t feel better until my Estrogen is high enough it’s just a long drawn out road to get there.
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Sorry Reb, yes to jitters, agitated. Etc, all that you describe, made me feel like I was going mad don’t know what to do with myself and you just want it to stop.
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Blimmin eck - the last few days have been a bit rough. Strangely it's been what I had about two months ago - where I've had a couple of days of night sweats and insomnia but then managed to get over that and sleep fine (which I have, for the last two nights) except I still feel absolutely terrible the next day. The only thing I can compare it to was when I was pregnant or when I used to get bad PMT - very low / depressed and very very tired (like I haven't slept, except I have).
Am really having a bit of a moment of "is this all worth it" in terms of the Pill. The weight gain, the terrible swollen painful boobs, the chronic constipation.... if my hormones are still going on underneath and causing my symptoms anyway? I'm not about to jump off right now as I know it's still early days of Yasmin, but I have been on A contraceptive pill now since early December and I'm really starting to have questions. I guess it's about figuring out if it's any easier than it was without the Pill.
How is everyone else doing today? x
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Gilla... Hopefully you're over this latest episode.
I think I'm defo having 'episodes'. But... When I think back, and check my diary, me off the pill was horrific, so, unless it's causing me the nose migraines (new term) then I'm staying on.
So I had that week of feeling dreadfully ill, achy and fatigued. Then 7 days of daily migraines/nose headache. Took my 4 day break during these 7 days.
Today. No nose feeling or headache wtf?!? But I'm mildly dizzy and woozy, like my ears feel full (a common symptom for me during all this). I have absolutely no idea what to think, other than its so nice not to have a headache 🤣🤣🤣.
So, weight gain... I'm not sure about. Sore boobs... Should go?!? (and until they do, I would expect other symptoms). I really think by our age hormones seem to be affecting us in all manner of ways... Perhaps we need to play the long game?!? I must say, that break with microgynon was much easier than I had with the other pills. Keep going I say.
Life for me is going to get a lot more normal next week as my kids go back to school... So I'm hoping I'll get a better feeling as to where I am at. X
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I agree Gilla that you prob need to weigh up whether you were better off pre pill. If you had the night sweats and insomnia before and are still getting them now but with extra things. You may find out if your constipation is caused by the pill if you weren’t on it. Guess only you can weigh up the pros and cons.
Crispy glad you have a break from the migraines. And sounds like a break from kids too. Is your mood still ok too? Xx
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Hi scampi. Yes, I think my mood is OK. I say think because I think I can maybe get a little short and impatient... But nothing like I was the first 8 weeks. I'm no longer down and depressed. No longer incredibly angry.
I was also pleasantly surprised to find my mood did not drop on the 4 day break. It did on all the other pills I've tried. 🤷♀️.
How are u getting on with cerelle???
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That’s good to hear. I’m a bit all over the place mood wise but felt a lot better today so guess it can’t be the pill having a negative impact. My moods were all over the place pre pill. So nearly a week on Cerelle now. Not getting nausea or headaches anymore anyway. But remains to be seen whether it’ll help me. Should start period in a couple of days so then the cycle begins and maybe I’ll tell a difference. Xx
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Crispy I know you're right about playing the long game and I do have a tendency to make rash decisions. Like everyone here, I'm just so fed up of all this and want a normal life back. Had a couple of nights of decent sleep, but last night back awake at 1am and had to take valium again to get back off, which leaves me feeling super groggy the next day and I'm also worried about taking it regularly. I'm just not sure right now whether pre Pill was worse than this. It's currently happening every couple of weeks for anywhere between 3 and 7 days. Every time I'm in a good week I think "perhaps it's all over now, I feel really good" and then it all happens again. I can't plan any social events or anything because of the unpredictability and my life is getting smaller and smaller.
Guess I'll need to give it a couple more months before weighing up the pros and cons like you say Scampi. Right now I'm struggling to feel optimistic that things are going to improve :-\
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I also do really try to honestly look at it all and wonder whether this could all be psychological - I know the brain is such a strong thing! Or something to do with my other medication. But I keep looking back at my diary throughout 2020 when all this started and the timing just coincides every single time with a week or towards the end up to two weeks before my period. Every single time. And like I've mentioned before, I didn't even make that connection until around September, so it wasn't like I was anticipating it. If there is some other cause than my hormones I don't understand why it would be so cyclical.
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I've gone really narky again. :-\. Day 6 after restarting microgynon. :o
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I'm soooo grumpy I'm seriously considering swapping to eloine due to the grumpiness...
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I might give up on mini pill, feel so depressed. I did before but sure it’s gone up a notch and too bad to push through.
How is the head crispy?
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Scampi, maybe we should start eloine together???
I'm not surprised you're depressed, to be honest, you're putting in a lot of progesterone. I used to love the mini pill, nut latterly it gave me low moods. Maybe u do need a not of estrogen?
I'm feeling grumpy as levongestral is renowned for it. It's a hard, old school progesterone. I'm not low though, just grumpy. Told hubbie yesterday that just looking at him made me grumpy 🤣🤣🤣
My head is still not right. I've managed to keep the migraines away. Lots of steaming, turned radiators off 🥶 and using steroid spray. Spoke to gp yesterday, she's going to write to my ENT surgeon. No idea if connected or not to pill/hormones, but I'm suspiscious. Gp says not.
So this week as I start back on microgynon after only 4 day break I'm grumpy, tired and getting terrible indigestion. Then head/nose issue on top of it. Grrrr. Gilla - if I can get such terrible indigestion from the pill, I believe your issue is more than likely caused by it.
I'm going to take it today... Then decide...
Big day today. Schools back. 🤸♀️👐
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All I can say is I empathise... for the last week or so I've been seriously weighing up whether I am really overall any better on the Pill than off it. X
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Yes if you feel the same on and off there seems little point!
Have either of you tried a functional medicine doctor/nutritionist? Not something I would have ever suggested prior to my current state but given the lack of options and progress we are making it may be worth a try? I r started seeing a nutritionist re the histamine inflammation stuff but sure mine does hormone stuff too as she was mentioning running a Dutch test etc.
Anyway I’ve given up on mini pill.
Grumpy sounds a bit more doable crispy if it’s short lived. Hope it subsides xx
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What are you going to do now scampi???
Yes, gilla, I agree. If no better, no point. I have a, lot of suffering on this pill (as with all of them) but I'm still better than on nothing. On nothing I had to go to out of hours with 8 day intense ovulation pain (cyst?), horrific pmt fir 10 days avd dizziness at start of cycle.
Today I have a nippy head, foggy, bit off and confused. But that's still better. I might try eloine.
Scampi I saw a medical herbalist at the start of all this. I had good success with agnus castus beforehand for pmt, but I actually now believe it triggered all this unbalance. Anyway, at great expense to myself, the herbalist tinctures were absolutely no help. 🙄. I chose to see the main herbalist with meno experience 🤷♀️
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No, what's a functional medicine doctor Scampi? Have you decided to stop everything for now?
I'm not planning on making any decisions until at least after I get my rhythm tests back which would be in about 3 or 4 weeks time. But if my night sweats and insomnia situation doesn't improve from how it currently is (which seems to be one week on/one week off) then when I take into account all the side effects of the Pill I don't think it would be worth it for me. But the thought of being naked and having to suffer for 2 weeks out of every 4 for the next few years is a bit of a scary prospect. I'm just hoping beyond hope that it improves over the coming 2 months.
Crispy did you ever investigate the ovulation pain? That sounds very extreme to be normal? Xx
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That sounds like the prefect plan gilla. I really really hope you turn a corner. Why we are just expected to live like this, I just dont know 🤷♀️
When I had the extreme ovulation pain I went to out of hours Doctor. They didn't seem concerned at all. I just don't fancy that every month!!!!
I think I'm going to try eloine. Scampi are u joining me on that journey???
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I’m just not sure what I’m going to do next to be honest. I don’t know if I dare try another pill. The mini pill caused hot flushes for me, just like when I had oestrogen and just like the lady combined pill I tried years ago. I just don’t know if I can take it! I didn’t expect it to happen with the mini pill but I got such temperature dysregulation.
Crispy I’m glad you’re better off with the pill. And Gilla hope you’re able to come to a decision after the Dutch test, which I hope provides some answers. Functional medicine doctors are supposed to try find the root cause for things rather than treating the symptoms. That’s how I found out I can’t detoxify oestrogen well so it ends up circulating round my body. I think the Dutch test gives that kind of info and is the kind of test a functional medicine person does. Xx
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Scampi I've just checked out the Dutch test and it's much more in depth than what I'm doing... that looks really interesting and definitely something I'd consider doing if I'm not getting any answers - if I can find a provider in the UK. Thanks for the recommendation!
Crispy good luck with starting eloine xx
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Gilla, the pill ( synthetic BCP) surpresses your own hormones. So FSH, LH, estrogen, progesterone and testosterone will be low. The outcome will not be accurate. Maybe a Dutch test is possible, you can look that up.
I also had hot flashes, night sweats and insomnia on Elione /Yaz. I'm not sure why; either because the estrogen is to low of because it surpresses testosterone to much. But it's early days for you, it may settle.
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Thanks Alice, that's what I'm waiting to see with my test results. I suspect that the results won't be flat because I think my own hormones are still surging underneath which is what I want to test - but we shall see!
I try to remind myself it's early days too. Interesting you still had night sweats and insomnia on Elione and Yaz. I wasn't aware of a connection between suppressing testosterone and Estrogen, could you share? xx
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Did you have those symptoms prior to the Eloine Alicess? Or were they caused by the Eloine? X
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I've seen many comments of people saying the pill stopped working to control symptoms as they moved towards meno...
Ladies, I've chickened out of the pill swap for another day.
Hardly slept last night (but I only get that about once a month and may or may not be connected. So no biggie). Not grumpy this morn, so taken pill 2 hours later, see if its more of a metabolising issue.
I've got terrible indigestion /stomach issue. Had it on and off the last week, but it's been bad. Had it severely last time on mini pill... So I suspect prog maybe... Whilhich is also quite dominant in microgynon.
On the plus side my head/nose feels a little better. Woo hoo. Turned the central heating off in the bedroom... Its the only new change. Fingers crossed its not hormonally connected... But too early to tell. Plus, it's been replaced by the stomach pain 🤣🤣🤣. I honestly could cry!!!
Be so interesting to hear of your results gilla. Everythibg tells us our hormones should be flat on the pill... But it just doesn't feel the case!!! X
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Gilla, I see, I didn't know you where using your test- results for this purpose.
Women have higher circulating testosterone levels then estrogen levels. The testosterone is being converted to estrogen by a process called aromatase. So a part of our estrogen comes from this conversion. Testosterone on it's own also has beneficiail properties for women besides libido.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378512213000121
Most of my live I've been on Diana 35 which contains 35 mg ethinylestradiol and a potent anti- androgenic progestin cyproterone. Even when I was young I experienced hot flashes, night sweats vaginale dryness and a lot of other menopause symptoms. Also had facial hair/ excessieve body hair despite surpression of testosterone. Then my GP put me on Microgynon 30 when I was 48, which has a lower EE but a more androgenic progestin and all of the symptoms including facial / body hair vanished. A year later GP put me on Yaz and I experienced hot flashes, night sweats etc.again.
That's why I'm wondering if surpressing testosterone to much is one of the reasons. I don't think BCP surpresses our hormones fully and something is still happening in the background. It also depends on the individual, like with HRT we all react differently.
I don't think exogenous testosterone acts the same way as our own testosterone though. There are more DHT receptors on the skin where we put the T-gel and conversion to DHT is more likely. And it is not clear yet if exogenous T will convert to estrogen in women. If does in men though.
Alicess X
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Thanks Alice, that is so helpful. This is the kind of level of information I want from gynaes and struggle to get!
The reason it piqued my interest is that I know from when I had two sets of hormone tests about 3 and 4 years ago (before all my problems started, for a separate reason) my natural testosterone levels were higher than the normal range. I never had any of the classic symptoms of high testosterone so it didn't concern me. I'm just wondering if my persistent symptoms of night sweats and middle-of-the-night insomnia that started a year ago could be something to do with my testosterone levels coming down, as you mention (particularly as I keep being told my estrogen levels are within normal range).
Food for thought anyway! Really interesting - thank you!
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Crispy I can massively empathise with the desire to want to make a change in order to fix it (three days ago I was on the verge of switching) but like you I am resisting making any changes for now. I know it's been much longer for you than me but I still have a hunch that it takes longer than they say for your body to adjust to hormones, whether in HRT or the Pill. When you're feeling really crappy all the time it is hard not to want to try changing though!
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Gilla, I think it's wise to also do a bloodtest for SHBG. If your SHBG is high then there will be less testosterone for your body to use, even with higher levels of T. Don't rely to much on bloodtests, they can vary greatly, not only from day to day but also during the day and other processes and sample size can interfere with the outcome.
Crispy, I'm sorry it's been such a bumpy road for you. I understand you want to stay on Microgynon as with changing you will have to go through the stress, the side- effects and ' not knowing' all over again. There shoud be a possibility to tailor- make the BCP.. Choosing the amount of ethinylestradiol and progestin ourselves ( within limits). I hope it will settle X
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Thank you Alice, I've never had that tested before so will do.
Ladies I think I'm going to switch to Qlaira. I fully realise I'm contradicting myself and going back and forth. I just don't feel very good on Yasmin - my boobs are gigantic and so painful, it's like carrying around two water melons on your chest, the constipation is terrible, I've been getting continuous headaches which I never normally get (may not be Pill related though), I've gained half a stone. And more importantly than any of that, the sleeping/night sweats situation isn't any better than it was on Zoely. I really feel this artificial sense with Yasmin that I didn't feel with Zoely. I am nervous because I think switching from EE to Estriadol is likely to cause night sweats and insomnia, but not sure I can avoid that.
My only issue with Qlaira is the prog dominant days, which I suspect aren't going to be great for me. I hear that topping up with gel is an option which I'll probably do. I would have liked to have Climidien but it's not available in the UK from what I can make out (Estradiol and the same Prog as in Qlaira but at a steady dose).
Trying to work out whether I should leave the switch until after my rhythm test results. If they come back as fluctuations still happening underneath on Yasmin then I suppose there is logic in waiting to see if that would settle - I just overall don't feel great on it. I think if I did, I'd be fine with seeing if it settled. Any thoughts/opinions? Crispy and Scampi how are you doing today? xx
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I think you should wait until after test results. Then u can make a really informed decision. When will u get results? Did u finish testing?
I know it's hard. Totally feel your pain. Defo sounds like estrogen side affects. Boobs and headaches both major issues for me with gederal.
Throwing u a curve ball... How about trying eloine. Same prog, lower estrogen??? You'll be more settled in the prog avd the drop to 20mg might solve the boobs avd headaches. Then reassess everything else???
I'm gradually moving microgynon to evening to see if that helps with the grumps. Defo not grumpy at mo and not taken it yet. It feels like the 4 day brwak has caused a reset. I had this with the other pills too.
Head OK. I'm screaming still. Stomach awful. But it did dawn in me I took an awful lot of migraine avd paracetomol and nurofen tablets over those 7 days... Nurofen in particular could have inflamed my stomach. So I'm still playing the watch avd see game...
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Hmm I hadn't thought of that! It is something to consider I suppose. My thought process on Qlaira was:
- the prog is more natural
- the estrogen is more natural
- my gynae said she'd had a lot of success with it
- I can top it up with oestrogel if I want to
- you can take Qlaira till you're 55
Even though I'm aware Alice has mentioned the estrogen isn't necessarily strong enough to suppress your own hormones, I do wonder if the phased approach will help (plus with the top up option).
What doesn't seem to make any sense is for me to be having the obvious high estrogen side effects but still also having night sweats and middle of the night insomnia. I can't help but wonder if there is other crap contributing now - be that psychological or my other meds or something.
Test results would be in about 3-4 weeks.
Trying to work out what they could show that would make me ok with staying on Yasmin. It's so hard to know isn't it, whether staying and waiting to see or cutting your losses and trying something else is the right approach.
I did think it sounded like you'd almost been reset on the Microgynon with the rage. Good idea to try in the eves! Is the stomach pain acid reflux in the chest or a different kind of main? Did you say you'd had it related to hormones before? Nurofen can 100% irritate your stomach, especially if you don't normally take it often.
Thanks for the feedback Crispy, I really appreciate it xx
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Right, I've done a complete 180 ;D
After doing some more reading about Qlaira I have decided to bite the bullet and go back to trying HRT. I've read that younger women need higher doses and when I tried it previously (for all of 10 days) I was only taking the lowest possible dose so I don't think I've ever given it a proper shot and I'm really not feeling great on Yasmin and loathe to keep putting synthetic hormones in as not only has it not helped the original problem I've now got a whole load of other problems. I've got an appointment with my gynae to discuss it and will go for the highest dose I can. Wish me luck!
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Hi gilla
I totally understand your reasoning for looking at qlaira. The idea of topping up estrogen with gel, sounds promising.
I'm assuming you have every symptom every day??? That's why I decided not to jump yet as the grumpiness for example, is not the same every day avd I do think the 4 day break reset me 🙄
I guess I'm just trying to say, is it worth 1 more month to see if you bloods give you an insight? I would seriously consider dropping to 20mg eloine. Your body should he used to the prog, so you're only reducing the estrogen. For me, in the early days of these pill trials, high estrogen gave me painful boobs and migraines. I dropped to a 20mg of same brand and those side affects literally went overnight. Might be worth a try for month?
Qlaira will still be an option then, but at least you'd have ruled the lower dose mainline pill out (or in, even better).
I do doubt it will solve your other probs if the high estrogen one isn't. Although, I would say at least one of the 30mg pills I tried last year actually gave me night sweats. I don't have them at all on microgynon and I don't get them on nothing, but 30mg millinette gave me them and I felt poisoned on it, which I asummed was too much estrogen... Its so mind boggling.
My stomach feels like a bad case of gastritis. Knawing pain in actual stomach, burping, bloated and also on/off pain lower in abdomen with bloating. I'm hoping it's an acute case, possibly causes by ibuprofen (which I do usually avoid, but the migraines were killing me!). Trying to eat clean and little...
Yes, I had a, terrible case of this ongoing whilst on cerazette. Ended up with endoscopy and on meds. Hit myself off the meds about Sept... Really don't want all that again. But I do believe prog can be a cause 🙄.
Just taken my microgynon.
Head feeling a bit off, so just steamed for 2nd time today. Fingers crossed.
Let me know what u decide...
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Posted at same time! ;D
OK... I do wish u luck 😁.
I can understand if the pill is not helping your original problems. It defo helps mine. Even, for example, the grumpiness I'm getting, it's not as bad as my 10 days of horrific pmt. Just not ideal. But it's grumpiness, not low mood and extreme sensitivity. In fact, I've noticed I'm not over sensitive to anything or anyone now. 🤣
What happened in those previous 10 days???
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Thank you lovely! No idea if I'm doing the right thing but my reasoning is even if it doesn't fix the original problem, the original problem is still here now, so at least I would have less side effects than I'm getting with the synthetic hormones from the Pill. Qlaira would have been the other option but then I come back to it probably not being strong enough for what I need which is what has left me with HRT (and is what the gynae suggested would be my next step).
I'm really glad it has helped your original problems as at least that's one positive! The stomach situation sounds awful.. can you take anything over the counter for it like omeprazole? I had a similar thing a few months ago after needing to use a prescrition anti inflammatory (nitro something?) and it was hideous... felt like I'd drunk a bottle of vinegar... but it did settle eventually. I think I lived off porridge and Complan for a bit!! Sending you lots of good vibes xxx
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Gilla. I think if your gynae suggests it... Then it's a good idea. When do you start???
What happened when you tried 10 days before???
And yes!!! Feel like I've drunk vinegar. I can take it, as long as it subsides. I had it months and months previously... Fingers crossed the ibuprofen caused it. I'm managing to keep migraines away with regular nose steaming - I think. But I'm still not convinced I won't have to swap pill.
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When I tried it for 10 days in November I just still had my night sweats and middle of the night insomnia throughout the 10 days so gave up. It was the 10 days right before my period which is exactly when I would have naturally had all the problems so because it didn't immediately "fix" it, and I read about the Pill fully suppressing hormones I switched to Zoely. Interestingly during the 10 days on HRT I had a proper hormone blood test and my Estrogen level even when on 50mg Estradot only came back at the mid normal range for that time in my cycle. So it makes me wonder what it would have been without the HRT. And it is a very different picture to the previous test i'd had done a year earlier (eu naturel / without any hormones) when the reading was 5 times higher (which is why I had been continually getting the big painful boobs). So I think it definitely demonstrates that I've had a steep climb down of Estrogen over the last 12 months which is what I think is causing all the issues for me.
I'm going to have a 5 day break from Yasmin and then start on the sequential HRT at a high dose (Lenzetto, 3 sprays) plus vaginal utrogestan. Not looking forward to the rebound of either the 5 day break or moving from a strong estrogen to a less strong one (estrogen withdrawal...) but I'll have to just ride it out. I've managed to get an appointment with Newson health in July (!) too. God the amount of money I've spent on just trying to live a normal life!!
That "vinegar" feeling is horrendous - it's like something triggers it and then it becomes really inflamed. It will subside I think, just try to eat really bland and boring foods. Good news hopefully on the migraines - at least you know you have an option there with swapping to Eloine xx
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Good luck gilla. If you felt fine on hrt, but it didn't give u instant relief, then defo go for it!!!
I felt totally poisoned on my 10 say trial. Which was estrogen alone I was taking at that point... So I know its not for me... Yet. If u felt no side affects, defo a good call...
Keep us updated 😘
How's everyone else doing?
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Hi and good luck on the hrt Gilla. Did gynae recommend the lenzetto? I’ve never tried that. Just from my experience on estrogel maybe work up to the three pumps if you’re sensitive to oestrogen. Let us know how it goes.
I’m not taking anything at the mo. I need a break from stuff I think so doing some gut repair stuff with nutritionist to fix some stuff that may have contributed to the histamine intolerance and see where I am. Considered combined pill, Estradot patches, anti depressants in my head changing my mind every minute and now decided to just leave it all for a while!! Xx
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I'm not keen on the patches so she suggested either the spray or the cream. It's slightly stronger than the patches or cream - I think 1 Lenzetto spray is equivalent to two pumps of Oestrogel. She suggested I start on one spray which is the standard HRT dose (and equivalent to one 50mcg Estradot patch) and see how I get on.
Day 2 of my 7 day break and so far doing ok - no bleed yet. Both my digestion and boobs are already a million times better though.
I can totally understand the wanting to take a break and step away for a while. As you can tell from my last few messages I also constantly change my mind about the right approach - which is partly down to not really being given any definitive answers by doctors, but also just from desperation of wanting my normal life back again! But it's easy to lose yourself down a rabbit hole. HRT is sort of my last ditch attempt - I'll try to give it a good 6 months. Would be really interested to hear how the gut repair work goes Scampi and if you feel it helps things in that area! I need some of that!
Crispy I hope your stomach's a little better today xx
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Good news re the digestion and boobs! So it was the pill causing the digestive issues! Really hope the spray helps you. Xxx
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How are you feeling now Gilla??? What pill free day are you on???
Very interesting to find your digestive issues hsve eased...!
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Day 4 pill free today and a little bleed but hardly anything. Not sure if that's unusual after 4 months of pills back to back!
My digestive issues are so much better and I generally just feel a million times better in myself physically, despite having a touch of sad type PMT. I really can't articulate how much better off I feel from a physical stand point.
t has really made me think about whether I am overall better off hormone free completely... But I am not quite willing to accept yet that I have to spend 50% of my life suffering from sleep deprivation! HRT is my last attempt. Was planning to start it on Friday but I'm now having my vaccine then too so may rethink!
How are you doing ladies? Xx
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That's great Gilla.
I guess it doesn't matter when you start HRT. Indeed, would you be getter to let your body get back to its own rhythm, so you can then identify any positives and negatives?
The one thing I can offer - and I'm not trying to burst your bubble - but with some of the awful pills I tried (like millinette which made me feel poisoned) I too felt amazing the first 7 days off... But then normality returned and all my old stuff instead...but I managed 3 months before I was desperate to try again... So it might he worth a proper break. And, for all you know now, you might be better 🤷♀️
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Oh no, you're totally right. I'm not under any illusions that it's all sorted! I just meant that physically in my body I feel SO much better off the pill than on it. But I don't in any way think my original symptoms have disappeared and won't re-appear! But I'm feeling overall a bit sceptical that any form of hormone medication is going to fix those problems, because nothing seems to have done so far, at all.
I hadn't thought about giving my body a proper break to let my own cycle kick in before starting HRT - that's actually not a bad idea and perhaps I'll do that.
How's things been with you? x
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Yeah, it might not be a bad idea to take a proper break. As HRT is topping up, might be good to ensure you're own levels are back to 'normal'.
When I did my 10 days of HRT that's what I did... It meant I could see straight away any side affects...
But... Also going EU naturele can be awful.
I'm doing OK. My nose is still bothering me, but been less severe. Turned the heating off in bedroom. I'm freezing, but maybe helping. I've started my steroid spray again too. If I can be certain it's not connected then I won't change... Jury's out at present.
The re start grumpiness has gone again. Yay.
Stomach still up and down... But again, could be re start, or could've been the ibuprofen or something else.
So still plodding along. I keep waking with a sore boob at night, which is odd, as not particularly painful normally. Maybe slightly to press. Must be the estrogen, and assume just the way I lie on it 🤷♀️
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I'm glad things are a little more stable for you at least - will be interesting to see how it goes for the rest of the month and whether your stomach eases up a little. Great news that the rage has subsided!
After another sleepless night (it is literally all the time now, with the odd good night thrown in) I've now been signed off work sick for a couple of months :-\ Just feeling so completely worn down by the last year of constant insomnia. The last 3 weeks I've slept for about 3 or 4 hours nearly every night. Still debating when to start the HRT - don't really know which way is up or down at the moment - but perhaps you're right Crispy and I should give it a cycle so I know where I'm at.
What's interesting is that I was reading my diary today from 2018 where I am talking about this new onset of sleep maintenance insomnia - so it's actually been going on for much longer than I remembered. I think it just started to get really/consistently bad in 2020. When I read those entries in my diary I checked the dates on my Clue app they are ALWAYS in the week before my period - even going back longer than I had looked at until now. I really do wish I understood what was happening.
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Hi ladies,
Crispy I’m glad some things are settling but annoying you have the nose thing still, are you going to continue on the current plan for now?
Gilla I was just trying to think what it could be that causes this for you. You must be so exhausted and I don’t blame you having the time off work. I’ve been off myself for three months now with all this and it’s a last resort isn’t it but you can’t push through some things. I hope the lenzetto does help. Fingers crossed.
I’m not on any treatment yet, just going to try some other meds for the histamine/mast cell issue as I think throwing hormones into the mix now for me would cause more havoc than it solves. Xx
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I know Scampi it is so confusing - I know that something is going on, I just don't understand what it is.
I'm considering seeing a functional medicine doctor (although also loathe to spend any more money on this bloody situation!). Have you ever seen one before and is there anyone you'd recommend?
Thanks for the kind words - I really hope the histamine issue improves soon. I agree, sometimes you sort of need to get your baseline back before throwing more things into the mix. xx
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Hi Gilla I’ll send you details of ones I’ve seen. Fortunately most are remote currently. Hear you on the financials! I’ve never spent so much money on my health! Xx
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How's everyone doing???
That's another pack of microgynon complete for me. That must be 5 packs, with just one 4 day break.
So... I have the awful intense fatigue, achy back and fuzzy head. Seems, to arrive fir a full week out of every 3/4...so odd. I only had a break 3 weeks ago. It must be cyclical and just shows that my own hormones are definitely still controlling things.
I'm still struggling with my nose/head.
If things don't improve I think ill try eloine as it is a softer progesterone. Although I am worried about dropping to 20mg if I'm getting this much fatigue on 30mg...but levongesteral is a hardcore old school prog...
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It's weird isn't it, that is seems to be so cyclical still for you? That's the place I got to and why I wanted to do the Rhythm test to prove or deny my suspicions (I'm waiting for the results).
If you think it's your natural hormones still going on underneath, do you think switching to another Pill will stop them? But yes, totally get your point regarding side effects of your current progesterone and that they might improve with a newer generation one, definitely worth a shot!
I've been fine - stopping the Yasmin was brutal (after the initial first good day or two).... I mean I literally felt like i was ill, the drop off a cliff face of hormones wasn't pretty, but it's passed now. I'm a week into using Lenzetto and been a good week. Overall feel so much better than when on the Pill, particularly Yasmin. Planning to start Utrogestan next week vaginally for 12 days and see how i get on. No episodes in this last week, but then it is during my "good" time of the month naturally (if we assume the withdrawal bleed from Yasmin was my period) so will be interesting to see what happens over the next couple of weeks. I suspect my own hormones haven't properly kicked in yet after stopping the Pill, but I might be wrong.
I think I've reached a point where I am happy to try to work with my own hormones (with HRT) rather than suppress the cycle altogether - primarily because for whatever unknown reason it didn't seem to work for me. Even if I'm still symptomatic for 10 days before my bleed with HRT, at least it will be a predictable cycle rather than the total random unpredictability when on the Pill. That's about as much hope as I can muster at the moment!
When do you think you'll make the switch to Eloine Crispy? x
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That's great gilla. I'm so pleased for you.
I've not made any decision yet again, as I seemed to end up with a stomach bug... Possibly. Immense fatigue for 10 days. Stomach cramps /nausea in the night in day 5 then day 8 they were back with a vengeance... Been a bit off my food too. Terrible lower back ache.
I seriously seem to get an 'illness' every 3 to 4 weeks. I'm very suspicious. But I think I'll do one more month.
Still getting nose probs. And been very woozy avd thick headed which was one of my original symptoms. But I keep thinking the gp said pick the best of a bad bunch... Maybe this is as good as it will get for me until I'm on the other side.
If I switch to eloine and have no success, I'm seriously considering paying to see a private bioidevtical hrt specialist trained by the Marion gluck clinic. I just do t feel modern medicine is working for me...
Sounds like they do blood tests then treat both estrogen and prog with bioidentical...
The other reason I'm doing nothing is I'm due my 2nd astra zenica jab in 2 weeks... I'm only 44, so I'd rather not switch to a higher clot risk pill (eloine) right before...!
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Hi crispy, sorry to hear you’re still getting all those symptoms. Are the symptoms better or worse when you’re on the pill compared to off it?
I’m just trying different things at the mo for the histamine/mast cell stuff so haven’t sampled any other hormones yet. X
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Thanks scampi.
Are you getting anywhere with controlling your histamine???
I would say, despite a huge amount of negatives, I'm probably better on the pill. Off the pill was very erratic and with 12 days of severe pmt and a number of days of intense ovulation pain. That's all gone.
But every day I just seem to suffer with fatigue, fuzzy ness, mild wooziness. Then every 3 or 4 weeks a week of 'illness' and the daily nose pressure. Last month I had 4 days where I felt 'good'. That is better than on nothing, but still extremely dissapointing.
That's why I'm thinking I might try the marion gluck route. Conventional hrt estradiol doses were far too high for me yet...
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Crispy 4 good days is not good :( - and I can so empathise, I felt like that for most of the last couple of months and it really brings you down after a while. Don't give up and accept 4 days!! What are you thinking about trying in terms of Marian Gluck? If they prescribe HRT would you give it a go?
I thought I'd give a quick update as I got my Rhythm hormone test results back this morning and BLIMEY. My head is spinning a bit. I can't for the life of me work out how to insert an image here but the take away in terms of my hormones was that, as I suspected, they were absolutely still going on. Not even cycling but just totally erratic, in particular (surprisingly to me) my Progsterone which is all over the place, and the erratic swings matched up with when I was symptomatic. It's hard to know what to make of it exactly, but the erratic Progesterone graph does very succinctly sum up how I felt in that month with my symptoms - totally erratic and all over the place. Perhaps this was not unexpected given I was only a month into Yasmin, but I was over 4 months into the Pill in total (I ran 3 months of Zoely and 1 month of Yasmin back to back) so I am a little surprised to see my hormone levels were still being so erratic. The other key thing for me is that my Cortisol level is sky high and out of range consistently across the day.... need to figure out what I do about that! I really want to see a functional doctor but just can't afford it right now.
Food for thought.. x
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Gilla
That's so interesting... Thanks for updating. So you think the high swings of progesterone were causing the symptoms? Which would make sense if you're feeling better on the estrogen hrt. The spray sounds like an excellent delivery route.
It's an awful minefield. Today I totally believe my own hormones are still swinging around under this pill. Today I have the woozy off feeling, which makes me feel yuck and slightly sicky. This I got a lot. Interestingly I also feel low. But not in my thoughts, just physically low and teary. So the pill is definitely not suppressing and keeping me stable because most days I don't feel low!!!
I have no idea what to do next. The estrogen alone on hrt sent me so out of it...i think that's why I'm thinking of the Marion gluck route - blood tests, then they can tailor to me. It will come at a high cost, plus, I'll need to go au naturele for a few months before the tests.
I'll probably give eloine a shot first. But I'm doubtful with the low estrogen...
I'm just going to wait until after my covid jab.
I wonder if the levongesteral in microgynon is the cause of my constant fatigue.
So - you seem to be getting on much better with the hrt. When do you start utrogestan?
The thing I'm worried about is the swings... It makes sense that after meno you can top up to feel better, but right now if we're swinging up and down erratically, I'm not sure I see how hrt can help... 🤔.
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Prog in Micro is causing some of your symptoms. I'm always really cautious about advising people of things because everyone is so different, but all I can say is that even if I still have two weeks of being symptomatic on HRT (like I was au naturel) that it is still a whole lot better than being on the Pill. I don't think I actually realised just how bad I was feeling until I stopped it - I feel much more like my old self. Again, maybe a lot of it would have disappeared if I'd given it six months, but I couldn't hack it. My mental approach with it all now is to try to work with my natural hormones as much as is possible, rather than the synthetic hormones to shut them off. Also you were right Crispy, after the initial 24-48 hours the next 7 days of hormone crash when I came off the Pill weren't pretty - I felt literally ill - but then it cleared and I felt almost high!
I've had a great couple of weeks where I've been like a normal human being again! However I am very aware that I start Utro this Thursday and that I'm approaching my "bad" time of month (though it might be later than normal as my hormones might take a while to kick in after stopping the Pill). So we'll have to see how things go.
I've been speaking to an amazing gynae who trained with Marion Gluck and the BMS - such a relief to finally speak to someone who knows their stuff. She places much more emphasis on Progesterone causing a lot of the side effects in early Peri, rather than Estrogen and she specifically said Progesterone is the anti anxiety hormone. And as we know it exits the stage before Estrogen. Often she recommends Utrogestan only (or the Mirena) before trying adding Estrogen on top if that doesn't help (especially if your estrogen levels are above 300, which mine aren't)
I really don't know if the Prog swings alone were causing my symptoms but it has backed up my feeling that whatever was going on for me while on the Pill wasn't working or helping xx
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Gilla... I'm so glad you've at least worked out you're better off the pill than on. ;D
I really hope you're utro phase goes well...
So, can you see from your bloods that your estrogen is low? Consistently low???
So, is your gynae private??? Interesting that she mentions using prog alone in early stages. Although I tried mini pill and was bad. But then that's synthetic.
I've just read through all the Marion gluck stuff again. I think it's my next step. I like the idea of someone looking at my bloods to Che k what's actually going on, rather than me blindly trying pill after pill and a mainstream hrt. I know from the hrt trial I do not need large amounts of estradiol... Maybe I just need bio prog, but not in an off the peg dose... Who knows.
I think 3 1/2 years is long enough of trying conventional dosage.
I'll pop a post up about practitioners. Hopefully I wont get shot down for considering the non conventional route...
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My Estrogen levels au naturel were 245, so below the 300 threshold the gynae mentioned to me to take HRT (though she said what they always do which is that it's more based on symptoms, the 300 is just a guide). My Estrogen levels while on the Pill were sky high - like 5 times the top of the range - which wasn't a surprise to me as my boobs were horrific. The Estrogen fluctuated quite a lot too though (though not as dramatically as the Prog). Ultimately the Pill just didn't suppress my own hormones fully and while it might have done if I'd have given it more time, 4 months was as much as I could handle and I felt worse on it than off it overall.
I really think Marion Gluck is not a bad option. The more knowledge the better you can be treated. If you're interested in trying the bio identical route (I think that's the right phrase - I always get confused) feel free to have a look at the page of the gynae I saw who said she trained with Marion Gluck. Her name is Dr Susie Rockwell. Maybe it's just a personal thing, but I was quite impressed with her.
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Thank you Gilla. I'm off to have a look.
One benefit of lockdown is all these experts now offer zoom appointments, so I can see anyone, based anywhere. Although I have found a locally based Marion gluck practitioner.
Interesting your estrogen was low au naturele but extremely high on the pill...yet you still got symptoms. Nothing ever seems to fit.
Yes, I think enough is enough for me. The NHS clinic just suggested trying different pills... They can't seem to help me any more than that, do I feel it's time to move on. I hatevthevtgiughtbof spending hundreds of pounds to get nowhere, but it will be soooo worth it if it works ...
I'm really interested to hear how you get on with utrogestan.
And, can I ask what this gynae suggested for you??? Just wondering how you ended up on the pill???
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You're right that nothing ever seems to fit, and the only conclusion I've been left with from all of it (including from what the gynae said) is that there are multiple factors at play.
So Dr Susie is someone I have seen as part of a project I'm a part of, which is a new company trialling a new way of working - a group of women have an 8 week course and get to meet different menopause specialists each week as a group and ask questions / get prescriptions etc. Last week it was Dr Susie, tonight it's a nutritionist etc. That's why I was particularly impressed with her as it wasn't just the response she gave me, it was also what she gave the other women that I rated.
She said to me that low Progesterone is typically what causes insomnia, unless it's insomnia that is driven purely by night sweats, which I don't think mine is - sometimes they arrive together, sometimes not. (She did also say that low Prog can also cause night sweats however.). She said if my Estrogen was naturally below 300 (which it is) then she would recommend using Estrogen and Utro (otherwise it would just have been Utro). She did say that Utro is not beneficial for sleep when used vaginally and recommended that I try it vaginally for a while and then try switching to orally once my body has gotten used to it (if I'm still symptomatic).
I ended up on the Pill purely because that was all my GPs would offer me, because I was still having periods. And I had tried HRT for 10 days (only estrogen, self prescibed!) and it "didn't work" so I gave up on it.
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Wow. That trial sounds fantastic gilla. Do let me know if you find out anything of great value.
So, it sounds like Dr susie thinks low estrogen is causing probs (but recognising u also have low estrogen), so on that note, you should need the utro... So let's hope that works out for you!!!
Yes. I think I'm fairly certain I wavt to go down the Marion gluck route. I know it is controvervsial, but, on the other hand, I feel quote let down by the NHS. 3 1/2 years of symptoms avd still no further forward. Mebo clinic say try pills then hrt... Done the lot!! I need to try so etching different!!!
I'm not going to rush. I will try eloine first... No point not doing. Then I'll need to come off, which will be awful...
I'd happily take hrt if it is right for me...but the estrogen in femoston sent me off the scale spacey. So conventional hrt clearly not right for me. Utrogestan just cones in standard doses, so again, I thi k I wavt a better fit.
There have been no recommendations on my other post... Perhaps all the Marion gluck clients are extremely happy and not in the forum ;)
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The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Whilst microgynon is controlling some of my symptoms I am constantly groggy and fatigued. I get plenty sleep...
I suspect the prog dose it too potent.
At least if I get tailor made, I can avoid this shenanigans...
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I agree. And I also think there is a huge advantage of the natural hormones in HRT vs the synthetic ones. At least during your good days you should be feeling GOOD, rather than just ok (because you're dealing with side effects from the Pill). And it's not like you haven't given the Microgynon a decent shot. Plus you won't have to worry about switching from the Pill to HRT at some point in the future.
Lots of stuff I've read says even the right dose of HRT can take up to 6 months to fully help so I know it's a bit of a waiting game (again) but I'm personally all out of other options so just have to keep everything crossed that it helps, even if it takes some time. These last 10 days has been such a gigantic wave of relief to feel like my old self again. I'm very aware it could come crashing back down any week now, but it's been lovely to have a reminder of what normal feels like! xx
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I'm sooo pleased for you. So, on that basis, you clearly respond well to the estrogen.
I think it sounds promising if the gynae actually thinks you need utro (I'm assuming you discussed your blood results?).
Yes, I think one size fits all, defo doesn't fit me - at this stage in my life. I am sensitive to other meds... So I guess that figures. I'm not a weighty person, so given someone double my size would take the same pill or hrt... It does make me wonder 🤔
Perhaps I just need prog... But a natural version of it... At possibly lower dose. Time will tell.
Yip... I know I'm in for the long hall. Not looking forward to it all... Bug I'll defo do it if there's a chance it will help.
When do you start the utro? X
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What I would say in my own experience is that even though it might be a bumpy road to get your original symptoms sorted, the hormones used in HRT feel to me completely different to those in the synthetic pill in a positive way (sorry I know I'm harping on about it). But especially if you're getting a tailored version you're much more likely not to suffer drastic side effects from it, on top of (potentially) dealing with your original symptoms until you've found the right dose. Obviously I'm only basing this on my own experience though, and I know everyone is different! xx
I'm now in a total quandary whether to start Utrogestan tonight as planned or not. I am just feeling so good at the moment and I know lots of women say it makes them feel fatigued etc (especially at first, even vaginally). I know I need to take it at some point but it's hard to know what's best. The options are:
1. Start taking it tonight which would be 2 weeks since my last "period" after I stopped taking the Pill, so in theory mimicking my natural cycle. However although I don't know for sure, but I don't feel like my own hormones have properly kicked in yet from stopping the Pill. Then I might have to deal with symptomatic days in another couple of weeks (for example) on top of two weeks of Utro now.
2. Wait until I'm symptomatic again (which would most likely be in the natural run up to my period) and then take it. The drawback with this would be I could only start being symptomatic 7 days in advance of my period and then I'm taking Utro for 12 days which would essentially delay my period (also not sure if only taking the Utro at the start of my symptomatic days will be soon enough to ward it off!)
So hard to know what the right thing to do is :-\
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Oh, I'm so pleased you feel good Gilla. I hear you on the natural hormones, but honestly, I'm better on this strong pill than I was on the lowest femoston estradiol dose - I was so spacey and poisoned. Perhaps its the prog I need only right now...
But then, I wonder why the mini pill is noo ger working for me. Gives me horrific pmt now. Which I also get on nothing.
So I have no pmt on this pill, but I'm now in my second week of extreme fatigue. I mean extreme. I've been up 2 hours and packed the kids away, now just so fatigued (not physical). I'm sleeping fine. I can I my assume it's the strong prog in this pill.
Not my worst side affect... But I've been treading through treacle fir 2 full weeks 🤣🤣🤣🙈
OK, I see your issue. I'd probably also be inclined to wait, not least because you're feeling good for the first time, but... Big but. It needs to be safe. I'm absolutely no expert on hrt... But the prog is to stop build up... If you don't take it at the right time, could it be dangerous?!
Given that Dr susie said she would treat u with prog, I have high hopes for you being fine on utro... As you actually need prog... Yes, there are lots of woman on this forum struggle with it... But thete will be many more who don't.
And... If it does turn out to be too much, could you investigate compounded yourself to get a better dosage??? What other experts are you still to see in this trial????
Still no comments on my compounded BHRT thread - either Noone using that route, or they're all happy and not on the forum 🤣🤷♀️
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That is strange on the mini pill not helping your PMT if it seems like it's the Prog you need - did you have breaks on it or take it right through? I definitely feel that a tailored approach is the way to go. It's rubbish having to pay out so much money but an off the shelf solution doesn't seem to do the trick and at least if you can have proper bloods you'll not be flying so blind. When do you think you'll stop taking the Micro / see someone from Marian Gluck?
Yes I agree on the Utro. Long sequence HRT can be taking Utro only once every 3 months so I'm fine from a health POV (many women take it around every 6 weeks as they don't like feel good on it so want more of the good days). So I agree, I'm going to wait till either I'm symptomatic, I've ovulated (I've bought some tests), or if I miss it entirely and have a period without knowing it's coming (highly unlikely) I'll wait till the next cycle to take it. I can't face rocking the boat at the moment. Worst case scenario and I can't get on with the Utro at all after a few months then I'll try the Mirena coil. Or the compounded route!
Next week we get to see a physiotherapist that specialises in pelvic floor etc. I think that's it then... not sure what the remaining 5 weeks consist of!
Interesting that no one has replied!! I very much doubt it's because people aren't trying it... more that they're happy and not on the forum! I remember reading about Oprah Winfrey saying how much success she'd had via that route. xx
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In that case then I'd defo wait to start the utro, esp if you are feeling so good. You must defo need the top up estrogen then.
Yes, I do wonder about the mini pill. Used to take it fine. I do note they don't recommend it if you have pms, so perhaps it's just too potent and synthetic 🤷♀️
I won't do anything until after my second covid jab. So another 10 days at least. Will reassess then. I'll prob try eloine... I'll know pretty quickly. Then come off everything, leave it 2 months then make appointment I guess. The months on nothing are a daunting prospect...
Very fatigued avd foggy again today. Pretty bad, but these are my better symptoms... Says a lot. >:(
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Just thought I'd check in as it's been one month now since starting Lenzetto. And it's been a fantastic month really - no "episodes" except for one which was related to tapering my anti depressant and nothing to do with hormones. However I am aware that I've not ovulated yet (I'm testing every morning) so therefore haven't been in my "episodic" time. In the last two weeks my boobs have started doing their estrogen-dominance thing, so my own estrogen is definitely rising - I would expect I ovulate at some point soon but who knows. What's also interesting to me is that I've not had a single night sweat during this time either - completely back to normal - which just reinforces my knowledge that the two things (insomnia episodes and night sweats) go hand in hand, and the insomnia isn't down to some other thing - psychological or whatever.
Aside from the swollen boobs in the last couple of weeks I've had no side effects at all from Lenzetto and find it really convenient. And my boobs are nowhere near as bad as they were either when I was on Yasmin.
I'm waiting until I've ovulated before I start taking the Utrogestan - not looking forward to that, but will be interesting to see how it goes.
Crispy, how's things for you? x
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Great news Gilla, I’m glad lenzetto is suiting you and it does prove your symptoms are indeed tied to something hormonal.
Crispy, sorry things are foggy. Let us know how you get on with Eloine. It’s still on the table for me I just can’t start any hormones yet due to the histamine mast cell issue I need to get level first. Since reducing my histamine it’s clear I have terrible hormonal issues like pmdd. I get things like ravenous food cravings and sleep on and off in the week prior to period but I can cope, the worst is deep deep depressive episodes just like pmdd really. Then it lifts.
So can’t carry on with that anyway! Xx
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Morning ladies.
Gilla - things sound so much better for you. That is amazing. So clearly extra estrogen is needed in your case. I'm assuming the next part of the journey is getting on with the prog...? And seeing how you are after ovulation. Although, I'm wondering if you are still producing plenty estrogen yourself, avd topping up - might u stop ovulation??? Might be an added bonus!?
Scampi, hope you can get settled with your histamine to enable you to try something hormonal.
I'm still plodding along. Not sure what to think really. My mood is OK. I think I can be a bit impatient, but that's prob me anyway...and I do have two boys and a husband testing my limits!!!!
I'm getting some weird things, far too often for my liking. But not guaranteed to be hormonal. Achy back and fatigue... Seems like every few weeks.
But then, when I read and comment on other threads, I realise the good stuff. No headaches. Dizziness is much less frequent. Nausea much much milder, if at all most of the time. Its just I don't feel amazing either. And the regular fatigue is very hard.
I said I'd wait until after my second covid jab before changing. That's me had it, so I think I'll use the next pack of microgynon as a monitor...
This is probably the best I've been in a long time, but like I say, I'm far from amazing and seem to keep feeling run down with fatigue and achy back... I've come this far, I'm not going to rush...
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Well it definitely sounds like there has been some improvement for sure Crispy! Do you think the fatigue could be down to anything else? Or are you pretty certain it's the Pill?
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Gilla, I've no idea if it's the pill... Or just me 🤣🤣. That's why I've not jumped. This week it's fatigue with a really achy back each day. I seem to get the achy back every month (it was blamed on the covid jab a few months back).
I might take a 4 day break and see if it goes...
What's next did u??? X
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Even if it is "just you" that doesn't mean it's not real or valid - so much stuff can affect your energy, whether it's diet or adrenals or all sorts!
For me I'm just waiting here like a sitting duck until I ovulate (I'm testing every morning) and once I see that happen will start to take the Utro and hope beyond hope that it prevents my symptoms - although I do need to accept it might not happen in the first cycle. Until then I'm just enjoying being a normal human being again with no night sweats and no insomnia!!
Side note: I stopped taking the Pill 5 weeks ago and I still haven't ovulated!
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I do wonder if the extra estrogen might stop ovulation...?
I always ovulate early, like day 10 (or certainly did laterally - bad pain do I always knew) but when I tried femoston 1/10, I didn't ovulate.
If it does stop ovulation, I'm guessing that would be a bonus? As you'd never tip into the second half...? Although that should be the case with the pill...
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I hadn't thought of that Crispy! If it does, it would definitely be a tremendous bonus for the reasons you say, but I suspect it's just going to take a while for my own hormones to kick back in after stopping the Pill. I remember that I initially had 4 good weeks on Zoely and then everything started to go haywire.
The Pill might have prevented ovulation but for some reason it also caused huge erratic fluctuations in my hormones (as proved by my Rhythm results) which in turn caused me to be highly symptomatic. Time will tell what happens with Lenzetto!
Have you had your cortisol levels tested recently? They can massively effect energy levels xx
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It is interesting gilla, that your bloods reflected volatile fluctuations whilst on the pill. It's all so odd.
I know my hormones are flatter as no headaches or pmt. But I'm still symptomatic in terms of woozy and foggy. Had a, lot of different symptims over the last few months, but I thi k I've got them all under control:
Nose pressure - antihistamines and steroid spray
Indigestion - tablets
Just leaves behind this woozy feeling and fatigue. The woozy feeling is lower than I had pre pill... But still horrible. I can never just get better.
I'm kinda wonderibg if this will be as, good as it gets until my hormones drop (prob bringing a full new set of symptoms).
I am open to trying eloine. Might do that next month. But the thought of stopping and going bsck to migraines and severe pmt to allow me to see a BHRT specialist, is horrific. Imagine if it did t work ???
You still waiting ovulation????
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What indigestion tablets are you taking Crispy? x
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I'm on famotidine. Was on ranitidine last year, which were great, but they had a health scare so no longer available.
I've already got down to a tiny dose a, week in... So will come off again until another flair. Gp would rather I was on ppi... Not sure why?
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Ah ok, I don't know those ones. The reason I asked is that I have a history of acid reflux too - was diagnosed with a hiatus hernia at 24! It went away for years and years and then reappeared in 2020 after I took a couple of doses of Naproxen - it was so bad! I was prescribed omeprazole but had to stop taking it as it made me .... super woozy and fatigued... just a really yucky fatigue and feeling all the time. I was then prescribed esomeprazole which was marginally better, and it cleared up after a few weeks so I stopped taking it. Just thought I'd mention it in case your anti reflux meds could be contributing to what you're feeling (I think they're known side effects).
Still awaiting ovulation and as it doesn't look like it wants to arrive, I've decided to start taking my Utro after next weekend anyway (I've got a couple of family dates I don't want to disrupt).
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Interesting about the omeprazole Gilla. I have had that before and also lanzaprazole. I liked lanxaprazole first time, but couldn't get on with either 2 years ago, so consultant suggested ranitidine. Next consultant told me to get off them all... So I did!
I'm pretty sure nowadays it's hormonal flairs. The famotidine works really quickly. GPS seem to prefer PPIs. Not sure why, and I think they're more long term.
If u need any again, try the famotidine?
I dont think it's the cause of the fatigue and woozy... I'm on a tiny dose now. But time will tell.
My head/nose flared yesterday. Hence me taking a 4 day break. Be interesting to see if my energy picks up. 12 hours late with pill and I can already feel the scratchy tummy etc.... Crazy. I'll do 4 days then restart microgynon to see how it goes...
Maybe I need more regular breaks... It feels like the bad side affects of the progesterone maybe build up 🤷♀️
Are u still feeling great???? So, what are u expecting when u start the utrogestan??? How long do u take it? 10 days????
I think you're right. If you're feeling good, enjoy this week, then give it a try...keep an open mind. You're feeling better than u have done - no reason why u shouldn't continue to do so...
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OK. My immense fatigue is defo the microgynon. Grrrr. Had a 4 day break. Wasn't great first few days, but survivable.
Defo had more energy. Took first pill again last night. So fuggy now!!! At least it explains it. No more blaming iron levels etc >:(
I'm just always tired, dragging myself about with bad fatigue. My brain is never sharp either. I'm always in a blur.
So... On this pill I'm much more level. Less dizziness avd nausea, no pmt (which is now epic on nothing)... But I don't think I can live this fatigued. Grrrr.
Going to try avd give it this month. Then will try eloine. It's defo the progesterone doing this.
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Well at least you know for sure what's causing it Crispy - there's no harm in giving it another month and just check that it doesn't subside, as there are clearly other benefits to it for you as well. But yes, if it doesn't improve next week then Eloine could well be worth a try xx
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Hi All,
Sorry for not posting in ages. My symptoms slightly lessened with Qlaira but it hasn’t helped with the main awful ones. Next step now is considering HRT. Sending you all hugs and best wishes. X
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Hi all - Angela, sorry to hear that Qlaira hasn't helped for you. It definitely is a case of trial and error with all this isn't it. Have you started on HRT yet?
Crispy, I wondered how you are doing? x
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The trial and error is the toughest part isn’t it! I hope you are alright, I’ve started HRT. Vagifem, Estradot and Utrogestan. Things are a bit better but the Utrogestan hasn’t calmed my PMS and so its been a tough week, feeling irritable, upset and exhausted.
Sending you all hugs… how are you all? X
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OK. My immense fatigue is defo the microgynon. Grrrr. Had a 4 day break. Wasn't great first few days, but survivable.
Defo had more energy. Took first pill again last night. So fuggy now!!! At least it explains it. No more blaming iron levels etc >:(
I'm just always tired, dragging myself about with bad fatigue. My brain is never sharp either. I'm always in a blur.
So... On this pill I'm much more level. Less dizziness avd nausea, no pmt (which is now epic on nothing)... But I don't think I can live this fatigued. Grrrr.
Going to try avd give it this month. Then will try eloine. It's defo the progesterone doing this.
I know this is a very old thread but I was wondering, if you see this, if you could clarify 'it's defo the progesterone doing this... lack of or too much do you think? I have struggled for a long time in the follicular phase and believed it to probably be low progesterone. fatigue/nausea/fog. I went on hrt which was lovely but would have been lovelier if I had been allowed to take it continuously. I felt good on the utrogestan phase and that was the only time I really slept. The two weeks without it (estrogel only) were still hard. Now on Qlaira but suffering this week with the ole growly tummy, dry mouth, lack of sleep, fatigue...