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[BlueButterfly]

Bluebutterfly - you are taking progesterone though which is a component of HRT? if you are unable to take HRT then has your specialist said that this is OK?

Hurdity x

I am using a natural progesterone cream I can buy over the counter. My doctor knows I'm using it, I told him when we last spoke and he asked about my anxiety being gone and what happened with that. He said if it works, then okay. My GYN does not know yet. He wants me on the pill and doesn't really want to do much else for me hormonally. I have a progestin only pill I am still not sure about taking as the cream is working for the worst of my symptoms and I worry what the pill will do to my moods. I can't go back to where I was, don't know if I could handle it.

[dangermouse]

As far as I know, the NHS can't prescribe non-drugs, they can recommend them but they only deal in drugs that have been patented.

The Utrogestan is one of the more natural drugs but they had to add a drug to it (shouldn't have any significant effect though) in order to patent it. Same with oestradiol, I think they add Valerate to it.

Drug companies can then afford to do proper trials but it has to be financially viable for them to invest in it.

My old GP who I sometimes see (too big a practice now) would often write herbs down on paper and give to me rather than prescribe drugs. Herbals and supps companies can't afford double blind placebo trials though so it's really down to trial and error.

NICE guidelines do sometimes recommend vitamins and herbs which can then be up to the doctor to recommend.

I am ultra sensitive even to some foods so know they can have enough effect so if you can find a diet that has what you need and cuts what is harming you then that must be the best way to go.

[Shadyglade]

Very informative post dangermouse.

Thank you. 

[Hurdity]

The Utrogestan is one of the more natural drugs but they had to add a drug to it (shouldn't have any significant effect though) in order to patent it. Same with oestradiol, I think they add Valerate to it.

I'm not sure what you mean by this - it's incorrect. Utrogestan is micronised progesterone (from the same source as in progesterone creams ie synthesised from plant based ingredients) and doesn't contain any "drug" as such or any other active ingredient but inert fillers as with all pharma products. Some estradiol is estradiol valerate but most is pure estradiol - in the form of estradiol hemihdrate - which is just two molecules of 17B estradiol held together by a water molecule which is inert and not a drug.

There are quite a number of double-blind placebo controlled trials for herbal supplements....

Hurdity x

[dangermouse]

I think it's the micronised part that was the Utrogestan addition so that it could be patented. Think it's to do with the delivery system and if that can be an active ingredient (chemical/oil?) that makes it a ‘drug' then it's something  worth manufacturing and investing money in.

I read an article which explained it all a few years back but just had a quick search and couldn't find it as too much pops up with key words. I think the internet is almost full!

That's great that herbal companies are doing proper trials with their herbs, I hadn't come across that. Hopefully they'll start being allowed to put on the packaging what they help with as they haven't been able to without the trials so far.

[Conolly]

Hello ladies,

Besins have a patent for Utrogestan, not for the progesterone molecule (which occurs naturally), only for the pharmaceutical composition and the method to obtain Utrogestan. Micronisation is a process used in many industries including food and it's not patented, at least not anymore.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8435561B2/en

Conolly X

[EnglishRose]

My aunt and mother swear by Evening Primrose for their hot flushes. Obviously doesn't work for everyone.

I use a natural progesterone cream....absolutely got rid of my anxiety. I'm in the US so it's easy to get over the counter at a health food store or over amazon. However, a lot of people can't tolerate any kind of progesterone.

I know there are other natural supplements but haven't tried any yet. I think it is hard to say what 'works' and doesn't, as far as natural supplements go. I think they really depend on the person.

I was using high doses of progesterone cream (later I got it prescribed as cyclogest which is a pessary) used it for many years helped me sleep and I was fine.
But now I'm adding oestrogen which is the one that causes anxiety insomnia and rage when it peaks... it's the excitary hormone,.. always saw it as the enemy.
Can't say I'm loving the feeling of oestrogen after a month nor the reduction of progesterone...so far so shitty but can't argue with my blood serum levels.
Was on 500mg progesterone transdermal now on 300mg

[J]

I took menopace menopause plus tablets for 2 years when my hot flushes first started, they stopped working for me about 5 weeks ago!

[jaypo]

I used to take sage and thought it worked as sweats stopped but I now realise it was just a coincidence (for me at least) nothing has helped me much,just take a daily vitamin for 50+ women,a cranberry with probiotic capsule & vit b12

[Poppi]

[qu.  As oestrogen levels drop the skin may become dry: inside and out! 4 me it was my insteps or behind my shoulders ........ a moisturiser may be required regularly.

Just had a light bulb moment! The skin on my heels has become awful - my feet used to be a good part of my body (trust it to be hidden away and the on-show bits are horrible bits  ) I think it maybe cos everything is drying up.

While back I asked if anyone had tried the Menopace Pro Tan vitamins and now after about 5 weeks I'm not sure. My nails were fab for about 3 weeks but now I see no difference tbh. Skin is good but apart from not being pretty, my skin has always been OK since I was about 30.

I wish I could find that magic supplement but still looking!

           Poppi x

[jaypo]

I moisturise my body twice a day with e45 and my face and neck with Estée Lauder,bit pricey but it's very luxurious and it does last as you don't need to use tonnes

[Hilaryf123]

I have found sage and black cohosh together to be very helpful (recommended by my GP) - as I take both together I couldn't tell you which is best.  Has helped with mood swings, hot flushes/sweats & anxiety.  Currently 2 weeks into v low dose of estrogen/progesterone and I miss the herbal treatments like crazy. 

[GypsyRoseLee]

There is nothing 'natural' about going through the menopause. Women weren't designed to carry on living for another 30 or 40 years after menopause. Mother Nature fully expected us to be dead long before we hit menopause. Don't forget it's less than 100 years that the average life expectancy of women and men was only about 50!

Modern medicine and better nutrition had extended our life span far beyond what nature intended. Expecting women to live without oestrogen after menopause is like castrating men at 50 and expecting them to live on for 35 years without any testosterone.

[Shadyglade]

There is nothing 'natural' about going through the menopause. Women weren't designed to carry on living for another 30 or 40 years after menopause. Mother Nature fully expected us to be dead long before we hit menopause. Don't forget it's less than 100 years that the average life expectancy of women and men was only about 50!

Modern medicine and better nutrition had extended our life span far beyond what nature intended. Expecting women to live without oestrogen after menopause is like castrating men at 50 and expecting them to live on for 35 years without any testosterone.

The death rate average is very misleading.  It is skewed by the infant death rate, particularly in under fives. If you made it to adulthood the chance of reaching meno was reasonably high.

The choice not to take HRT is up to the individual, as is any medication.  No one should be critical of that.

[GypsyRoseLee]

I'm afraid that's incorrect. A very small percentage of women made it to 55+. Both consultant gynaecologists I have seen have told me women are just not biologically designed to run without oestrogen, in the same way that cars aren't designed to run without oil.