Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Alternative Therapies => Topic started by: Jaymac on December 03, 2018, 12:58:50 PM
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HI
Interested to find out what REALLY worked for some of you with natural remedies.
My main issues are: mental lassitude,
anxiety (that has improved since GP gave me antidepressants)
Memory
No sex drive (which is my husb is totally understanding about)
Dry Skin (itches)
headaches
and now recently nausea (??? huh wtf??). and ..
hot flashes - I thought I'd escaped that part as they began recently but boy literally about 2 or 3 every hour and then at night ....the sweats, mahhhhhn the sweats. I constantly have greasy hair and...smell sweaty.
I am 44 but about a year back blood tests showed I was well into peri. I haven't had a period for ages - (I did have some bleeds when I took the HRT patch for 3 months but I've stopped those in Sept as HRT patches were making me crazy (literally!!). Other than the 3 bleeds on HRT I guess I haven't had a natural bleed for oh at least 10 months...
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Make sure that any vaginal issues are sorted with a localised HRT medication. Nightly.
We have lots of threads about 'memory' here. As oestrogen levels drop the skin may become dry: inside and out! 4 me it was my insteps or behind my shoulders ........ a moisturiser may be required regularly.
As oestrogen levels drop muscles may become lax = aches and pains ::). Read round. Make notes ;-)
You really need some heart and bone protection and there are several ways of delivering HRT . My periods waxed and waned over about 3 years ......... last bleed in 2002.
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Some ladies browse Holland and Barratt or Boots 'own' herbals but often when hormones begin meandering, any benefit from herbals is lost. They would be on the NHS if they were known to work.
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My aunt and mother swear by Evening Primrose for their hot flushes. Obviously doesn't work for everyone.
I use a natural progesterone cream....absolutely got rid of my anxiety. I'm in the US so it's easy to get over the counter at a health food store or over amazon. However, a lot of people can't tolerate any kind of progesterone.
I know there are other natural supplements but haven't tried any yet. I think it is hard to say what 'works' and doesn't, as far as natural supplements go. I think they really depend on the person.
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Some ladies browse Holland and Barratt or Boots 'own' herbals but often when hormones begin meandering, any benefit from herbals is lost. They would be on the NHS if they were known to work.
You often say this CLKD but it's simply not true. I lived in Germany and herbal meds are regularly prescribed, on their own or alongside, conventional meds. German doctors have to past a a module of herbal meds to get their degree.
Also our docs often recommend St. Johns Wort
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But they are not prescribed under the NHS, nothing to do with costs but probably ? lack of research? and St John's Wort should not be taken with other medications for mental health issues. Also, did they actually work for ladies? They may have been prescribed but how much evidence is there that they worked ......... I would have taken Heroin had I thought it would have solved anxiety :'( but am aware that it brings it's own problems. >sigh<
Maybe keep a mood/food/symptom diary Jaymac to see what helps? Then let us know ;)
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What's the NHS done to get your total trust, CLKD. Yes it is wonderful but not infallible or always right.
I don't want to be harsh but If you don't have faith in alternatives, it's a bit naughty to post in the Alternatives section, and put people off.
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It's a balanced view point.
Also, I doubt if anything works 'quickly' ......... bodies don't usually get where they are suddenly so it takes a while for anything to be 'taken up' and benefits felt.
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:thankyou: Let us know - useful for those who have undergone treatment for breast disease.
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What's the NHS done to get your total trust, CLKD. Yes it is wonderful but not infallible or always right.
I don't want to be harsh but If you don't have faith in alternatives, it's a bit naughty to post in the Alternatives section, and put people off.
"naughty" Shadyglade ????? Medicine is not primarily about faith – it's about scientific evidence which underpins everything. Once there is research demonstrating efficacy over placebo and numerous trials – a product can be licensed and is on average worth trying (if costs etc do not constitute a barrier). Placebo in itself is powerful – but this is not a religious site – the only "faith" we need to have is in ourselves and that the (tested) product/strategy/treatment we are going to try will also work for us.
As you know anyone can post wherever they like on this forum provided comments are polite and not unkind, or abusive or judgmental towards individuals, and it helps if the comments are relevant.
The OP asked for any alternative remedies that helped and a valid observation was given.
There have been published summaries about alternative treatments to HRT and the evidence for them – might be slightly out of date:
This one focuses more on prescribed alternatives to HRT spespecially for those who cannot take hRT for medical reasons and eg breast cancer survivors – but the anti-depressants (recommended in the paper) are not the first line of treatment and should only be considered if HRT is medically contra-indicated otherwise HRT is recommended.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053369117711646?hootPostID=6690d93930a10b86869c48433ab506e7
This one looks at research into a whole range of alternatives including some complementary treatments and herbal alternatives:
https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/scientific-impact-papers/sip_6.pdf
Here is a brief summary on NHS website which initially focuses on important lifestyle aspects:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hormone-replacement-therapy-hrt/alternatives/
Here is a summary of clinical care recommendations from the North American Menopause Society:
https://menopause.org/publications/clinical-care-recommendations/chapter-6-complementary-and-alternative-medicine
There is information on this website too:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/phytoestrogens.php
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/otherpreps.php
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/othertechs.php (but I'm dubious about the reporting of some of these!)
As already said too - if you are that young and periods are few and far between HRT is needed ideally until at least the natural age of menopause - to protect heart and bones and general health - so do persevere with trying to find the right product - or even the CCP ( there are a couple suitable for menopause which contain more "natural" oestrogen.
I hope this helps – happy reading! As CLKD said, nothing is quick!
Hurdity x
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I look forward to seeing how the diet does for you Jari.
As someone who is starting all this fun young and not being able to take estrogen, getting my body to work the best it can with what is has is all I really have! At least the progesterone is helping. Need to be better with exercise and avoid the sweets! (I'm doing terribly this time of year!) I need to protect these bones and heart.
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CLKD I was talking about shooting down alternatives remedies in the Alternatives section. Nothing more.
HRT and ADs are fine for those who want and can take them but others what alternative choices.
What's the point of this section otherwise?
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Jari, too found Marilyn Glenvile invaluable during peri. :xmas: :great:
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CLKD I was talking about shooting down alternatives remedies in the Alternatives section. Nothing more.
HRT and ADs are fine for those who want and can take them but others what alternative choices.
What's the point of this section otherwise?
Did you not see my post Shadyglade?
It is fine to "shoot down alternatives remedies" if there is lack of evidence to support them. CLKD was questioning whether there was evidence. I went onto produce some studies about evidence. The alternatives section is about ANYTHING that is alternative to HRT for menopausal symptoms and for ANYONE to comment - which does include ADs for those who are medically unable to take HRT, as well as lifestyle changes, exercise regimes, fans and other products, herbal remedies, various therapies, mindfulness, CBT, dietary options. It's a long time since anyone tried to suggest we should not criticise anything that is recommended in this section!!!
Bluebutterfly - you are taking progesterone though which is a component of HRT? if you are unable to take HRT then has your specialist said that this is OK?
Hurdity x
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Hurdity I do not read every post, especially long ones. No time, sorry.
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Bluebutterfly - you are taking progesterone though which is a component of HRT? if you are unable to take HRT then has your specialist said that this is OK?
Hurdity x
I am using a natural progesterone cream I can buy over the counter. My doctor knows I'm using it, I told him when we last spoke and he asked about my anxiety being gone and what happened with that. He said if it works, then okay. My GYN does not know yet. He wants me on the pill and doesn't really want to do much else for me hormonally. I have a progestin only pill I am still not sure about taking as the cream is working for the worst of my symptoms and I worry what the pill will do to my moods. I can't go back to where I was, don't know if I could handle it.
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As far as I know, the NHS can't prescribe non-drugs, they can recommend them but they only deal in drugs that have been patented.
The Utrogestan is one of the more natural drugs but they had to add a drug to it (shouldn't have any significant effect though) in order to patent it. Same with oestradiol, I think they add Valerate to it.
Drug companies can then afford to do proper trials but it has to be financially viable for them to invest in it.
My old GP who I sometimes see (too big a practice now) would often write herbs down on paper and give to me rather than prescribe drugs. Herbals and supps companies can't afford double blind placebo trials though so it's really down to trial and error.
NICE guidelines do sometimes recommend vitamins and herbs which can then be up to the doctor to recommend.
I am ultra sensitive even to some foods so know they can have enough effect so if you can find a diet that has what you need and cuts what is harming you then that must be the best way to go.
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Very informative post dangermouse.
Thank you. :thankyou:
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The Utrogestan is one of the more natural drugs but they had to add a drug to it (shouldn't have any significant effect though) in order to patent it. Same with oestradiol, I think they add Valerate to it.
I'm not sure what you mean by this - it's incorrect. Utrogestan is micronised progesterone (from the same source as in progesterone creams ie synthesised from plant based ingredients) and doesn't contain any "drug" as such or any other active ingredient but inert fillers as with all pharma products. Some estradiol is estradiol valerate but most is pure estradiol - in the form of estradiol hemihdrate - which is just two molecules of 17B estradiol held together by a water molecule which is inert and not a drug.
There are quite a number of double-blind placebo controlled trials for herbal supplements....
Hurdity x
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I think it's the micronised part that was the Utrogestan addition so that it could be patented. Think it's to do with the delivery system and if that can be an active ingredient (chemical/oil?) that makes it a ‘drug' then it's something worth manufacturing and investing money in.
I read an article which explained it all a few years back but just had a quick search and couldn't find it as too much pops up with key words. I think the internet is almost full!
That's great that herbal companies are doing proper trials with their herbs, I hadn't come across that. Hopefully they'll start being allowed to put on the packaging what they help with as they haven't been able to without the trials so far.
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Hello ladies,
Besins have a patent for Utrogestan, not for the progesterone molecule (which occurs naturally), only for the pharmaceutical composition and the method to obtain Utrogestan. Micronisation is a process used in many industries including food and it's not patented, at least not anymore.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8435561B2/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/US8435561B2/en)
Conolly X
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My aunt and mother swear by Evening Primrose for their hot flushes. Obviously doesn't work for everyone.
I use a natural progesterone cream....absolutely got rid of my anxiety. I'm in the US so it's easy to get over the counter at a health food store or over amazon. However, a lot of people can't tolerate any kind of progesterone.
I know there are other natural supplements but haven't tried any yet. I think it is hard to say what 'works' and doesn't, as far as natural supplements go. I think they really depend on the person.
I was using high doses of progesterone cream (later I got it prescribed as cyclogest which is a pessary) used it for many years helped me sleep and I was fine.
But now I'm adding oestrogen which is the one that causes anxiety insomnia and rage when it peaks... it's the excitary hormone,.. always saw it as the enemy.
Can't say I'm loving the feeling of oestrogen after a month nor the reduction of progesterone...so far so shitty but can't argue with my blood serum levels.
Was on 500mg progesterone transdermal now on 300mg
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I took menopace menopause plus tablets for 2 years when my hot flushes first started, they stopped working for me about 5 weeks ago!
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I used to take sage and thought it worked as sweats stopped but I now realise it was just a coincidence (for me at least) nothing has helped me much,just take a daily vitamin for 50+ women,a cranberry with probiotic capsule & vit b12
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[qu. As oestrogen levels drop the skin may become dry: inside and out! 4 me it was my insteps or behind my shoulders ........ a moisturiser may be required regularly.
Just had a light bulb moment! The skin on my heels has become awful - my feet used to be a good part of my body (trust it to be hidden away and the on-show bits are horrible bits :() I think it maybe cos everything is drying up.
While back I asked if anyone had tried the Menopace Pro Tan vitamins and now after about 5 weeks I'm not sure. My nails were fab for about 3 weeks but now I see no difference tbh. Skin is good but apart from not being pretty, my skin has always been OK since I was about 30.
I wish I could find that magic supplement but still looking!
Poppi x
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I moisturise my body twice a day with e45 and my face and neck with Estée Lauder,bit pricey but it's very luxurious and it does last as you don't need to use tonnes
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I have found sage and black cohosh together to be very helpful (recommended by my GP) - as I take both together I couldn't tell you which is best. Has helped with mood swings, hot flushes/sweats & anxiety. Currently 2 weeks into v low dose of estrogen/progesterone and I miss the herbal treatments like crazy.
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There is nothing 'natural' about going through the menopause. Women weren't designed to carry on living for another 30 or 40 years after menopause. Mother Nature fully expected us to be dead long before we hit menopause. Don't forget it's less than 100 years that the average life expectancy of women and men was only about 50!
Modern medicine and better nutrition had extended our life span far beyond what nature intended. Expecting women to live without oestrogen after menopause is like castrating men at 50 and expecting them to live on for 35 years without any testosterone.
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There is nothing 'natural' about going through the menopause. Women weren't designed to carry on living for another 30 or 40 years after menopause. Mother Nature fully expected us to be dead long before we hit menopause. Don't forget it's less than 100 years that the average life expectancy of women and men was only about 50!
Modern medicine and better nutrition had extended our life span far beyond what nature intended. Expecting women to live without oestrogen after menopause is like castrating men at 50 and expecting them to live on for 35 years without any testosterone.
The death rate average is very misleading. It is skewed by the infant death rate, particularly in under fives. If you made it to adulthood the chance of reaching meno was reasonably high.
The choice not to take HRT is up to the individual, as is any medication. No one should be critical of that.
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I'm afraid that's incorrect. A very small percentage of women made it to 55+. Both consultant gynaecologists I have seen have told me women are just not biologically designed to run without oestrogen, in the same way that cars aren't designed to run without oil.
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I'm afraid that's incorrect. A very small percentage of women made it to 55+. Both consultant gynaecologists I have seen have told me women are just not biologically designed to run without oestrogen, in the same way that cars aren't designed to run without oil.
They are doctors not historians, social scientists or statisticians.
I am not going to be drawn into an argument about this it's been done to death on the forum many times. This fact is if you prefer HRT to a natural method that fine. Choosing a natural method is also fine.
Each to there own.
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They weren't making any kind of historical observation because they're not historians, they're doctors. And their professional opinion, that the female body isn't designed to function without oestrogen, is based on the minimum of 15 years medical training in order to reach consultant.