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[EnglishRose]

I came to this forum 10 days ago in a crisis as many do.

I was experiencing extreme waves of depression anxiety and derealisatiion (spaced out feeling like my surroundings were not real or like I was living my life in a dream)

These were new to me. Sure I'd had bouts of anxiety ans DP before my period since I turned 40 nine years ago but this wa crippling and I never knew what would hit me or when so I was terribly emotional fragile. Had no interest in my job or much and was obsessed with my symptoms and how I was feeling all the time.

I'd taken some powerful probiotics 5 weeks prior and this seemed trigger this event.i had also stopped ALL sugars no chocolate cake sweets biscuits or white sugar at all .

Furthermore I was taking a liver detox supplement and a supplement called
 molybdenum.

Despite stopping the probiotics supplements 5 weeks ago (nnot the crappy sugary bio cult type drinks you can buy in supermarkets, they have more sugar than beneficial bacteria) my mental symptoms didn't seem to be getting better,
So I stopped the liver detox supplement and the molybdenum and each day since stopping those I've got stronger and better
If I do have a relapse it's shorter and less intense.

It's been less than a week since i quit taking them so I'm still not confident I've got the whole clear but unless I have a major relapse I believe my particular issue was caused by cleaning up my diet and detoxing my liver.

Natural supplements may seem harmless but they can be very powerful and you can have bad interactions wpeither from them messing with your hormones or with a drug you are currytaking.

I've had my hormones tested yesterday just as a precaution as I'm 49 if they come back “normal “ then I can only assume it was the diet and or supplements.

Always think if you have changed or started something new no matter how trivial you might think it is ...

If it all comes crashing around me again after writing this I'll be sure to let you know!

[Hurdity]

I agree that the supplements may well cause a problem as you could be overloading your system with unnecessary minerals etc but your diet sounds spot on!

I've no idea about probiotics but cutting out the sugar and refined carbs can only be beneficial to your system as it will help stabilise blood sugar levels. I presume you made sure you still had enough to eat and replaced these either with complex carbs or additional lean protein or both?

As for liver detox supplements and molybdenum - I've no idea what these are for or what eg the detox supplement consists of but really there is no need for anything like this provided you make sure your diet is well balanced, you cut out processed and refined foods, limit alcohol and caffeine, and eat a rich and varied diet with lots of fresh ingredients.

You symptoms may well also partly be due to peri-menopause - how often are your periods now and are you taking HRT?

Do keep up with the elimination of excess pure sugar and refined carbs - after all these are not really natural anyway!

I hope your symptoms continue to improve

Hurdity x

[aspie65]

It does scare me how 'safe' we are led to believe all these supplements are.  We can pick them off the shelf and take them without any real guidance or supervision and some can cause some real side effects.

[Shadyglade]

It's the same for all supplements and drugs. If you feel differently or ill, stop. Your liver is best left alone. Fewer starchy carbs is the best medication. Also starting too many supplements at one time is never a good idea. If you react you don't know which one is causing it.

[CLKD]

Why buy something over the counter?  The body detoxes itself, it's designed to process what we put in the mouth all the way through the digestive tract.  Kidneys and liver then do their job [not necessarily in that order  ].  I would NEVER take a supplement that is likely to upset my normal gut process regarding kidneys or liver, this is the job for a professional to diagnose if a patient presents with symptoms.  Self-diagnosis of what the internal organs might be up to/not, is quite frankly, dangerous.

Over-haul your daily diet?  Be honest with yourself and note down everything you eat/drink for 5 days.  I was surprised at how often I 'pick'  and not always on fruit or veg.   

Sugar is natural, a requirement as is salt, in the body.  But when we get into the habit of ready-made meals which may have excess to requirements then the body may rebel.  Certainly I was a bar of chocolate a day Girl, walked the dog and it was burned off.  When I no longer had a dog but continued with that bar of chocolate, my body became sluggish.  Now chocolate is good for us as it contains minerals and vitamins but my body was telling me something to so I stopped.  My sluggish-ness improved.

A good quality mix of meat, fish, chicken, fruits, veg. is what the body requires.  Fruits and veg. raw is even better ;-) [so why Have I Got Another Cold  ]

[Shadyglade]

Why buy something over the counter?

Why not CLKD?  If you think your doctor wants to see you every time you feel at bit 'off colour etc.,' I think he might disagree.  The current recommendation is that, for most things, we see speak to our pharmacist first.  Personally I would far rather take a vitamin than a drug.  I'm big enough and intelligent enough to decide for myself what I take.  Enough 'nanny state'.

Sorry but that's how I feel.

[Shadyglade]

Furthermore I was taking a liver detox supplement and a supplement called molybdenum.

roseenglish, wherever did you get this stuff?  I've done a google search and all I can find is that it is a mineral used in industry.  That does not bode well.

[dangermouse]

The difficulty with cleansing the liver is that the supplements and minerals like Molybdenum have to also be processed by the liver, so it can be a harsh process. Milk Thistle will open up your liver and stop it from getting overloaded and it's the only supp I feel great on instantly.

I would also try to use food which is easier to process than supps and drugs. Raw carrot is good for reestablishing gut flora and caffeine and salt is good for the liver. Coffee is good too but I just can't bare the taste!

Glad you're feeling a bit better.

[CLKD]

Our GP would rather see his patients than have to pick up the pieces when someone buys off the Internet ........ certain bodily dis-function can only be diagnosed by specific investigations.  Inteferring with the gut process other than eating a healthy diet can be dangerous.  Nothing to do with the 'nanny state'.  Common sense?   I have taken prescribed drugs to sort my irritable bowel syndrome [1992] and then used Actimel with advice which also worked well 4 five years and now my bowel is much better, with less slow transit.

I wouldn't be aware of kidney or liver problems .......... what would a patient feel if this part of the tract was out of kilter  other than turning yellow?

My dog loved raw veg., particularly carrots ;-)

[dangermouse]

For a sluggish or fatty liver, the symptoms tend to be around chemical sensitivities and general congestion in the system which can manifest in various ways. How you handle alcohol is a good measure of how fast your liver works.

Oestrogen metabolism is a big problem for the liver to handle (natural levels, HRT would probably be like any other plant/medicine burden). When my oestrogen is high I can drink a lot and not feel even slightly tipsy, because the drunk feeling is through the liver reacting to the ‘poison'. When mine is low, I'm like a teenager and tipsy after a few sips! Obviously the hangover is better too as it's all been processed a lot faster.

That's my immoral explanation anyway.

[Shadyglade]

How you handle alcohol is also dependent on whether you are a regular drinker. Many alcoholics rarely seem drunk because their liver is used to coping with it. It is only when a threshold is reached and the liver starts to fail that problems manifest. The same goes for livers damaged by drugs.

[EnglishRose]

I continued to get better or at least the psychological symptoms vanished.

Then I started taking probiotics again albeit a very small single dose - and BOOM! Straight back to where I was a month ago after just one half a capsule. That was 3 days ago I am slowly recovering from that.

I had a stool test done and it showed I have medium to high candida in my stomach and mouth and I also had: Secreted IgA: <20 decreased - norm range: 510-2040

Meaning: Immunoglobulin A (IgA, also referred to as sIgA) is an antibody that plays a crucial role in the immune function of mucous membranes.
The amount of IgA produced in association with mucosal membranes is greater than all other types of antibody combined In absolute terms, between three and five grams are secreted into the intestinal lumen each day. This represents up to 15% of total immunoglobulins produced throughout the body.

That last bit is about how much immunity my stomach has. So this explains why I am constantly sick with flu and colds and spend my life in PJs .

These are things a regular doctor would not look at. My own doctor told me "I am not trained in nutrition" so I stopped going for help to her as I knew my symptoms were nutrition related.

I also had my hormones tested privately and I have -18 estrogen, meaning none available. And 20 progesterone but I use progesterone as a HRT

So maybe its related to low estrogen?

I have ordered some over the counter bioidentical estrogen cream and will see how I feel after experimenting with that

I seem to have a lot going on!

So I am

[tika]

Shadyglade molybdeum is found in many foods and is an essential trace element, like  selenium it can be lacking in the soil in some parts, that's why some choose to supplement it.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php'tname=nutrient&dbid=128

[CLKD]

Activated charcoal will bind with all kinds of things including some of the vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in your food. Charcoal is sometimes added to fruit or vegetable juice and sold as a “shot”. Unfortunately, the vitamins in the fruit and veg probably won't be absorbed because of the charcoal. You'd be better off just having the juice.

Activated charcoal can bind with some medications, including some antidepressants and anti-inflammatory medications, causing them to be less effective. This could have serious health consequences for some people, but it's not explained on bottles or packaging where activated charcoal is being sold.

Activated charcoal will only bind with whatever particles are in your stomach or intestines at the time that you take it. It works by coming into physical contact with your intestinal contents. If you're trying to use it to detox from the alcohol and kebab you had the night before, it won't do anything at all because they have been absorbed into your bloodstream already.

Activated charcoal slows down your bowel and is known to cause nausea and constipation (and black stools).


The answer then, is don't eat activated charcoal.    Despite what the fad of the day might be ;-)