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[dangermouse]

I was given propranolol to take as and when, I think they are milder ones and better suited to dampening adrenaline than some of the others. I had zero side effects on 10mg (as had been worried it would lower my already low BP). It just stopped the adrenal surges and I remember I had them for weeks before I braved trying them as had a bad reaction to Valium as it wore off (rebound anxiety). They couldn't have been more different! Give one a try as you don't have to take as a course and then you won't get the rebound tach if you have big gaps between the doses.

[Justjules]

Thanks Dangermouse, I think I need to try something as it starts my day off badly and I'm not coping with it.  I just wish Drs would be more knowledgeable about these things.  My family get cross because they say I don't take the Drs advice and that if she thought I needed them she would be prescribing them but it was the duty Dr who gave me them who said it was definitely adrenaline surges and that only the BBs would calm it down.

[coldethyl]

JJ, I take propranolol for exactly those reasons. I started with palpitations and tachycardia a few years back at the start of meno and I resisted taking them for ages until I had a bad episode last June that sent me to a and e early one morning. Nothing would settle me , not even Valium so I reluctantly took them. Started off on 40mg a day which wiped me out and lowered my BP too much so I was prescribed 10mg tablets to take as and when needed. For ages I took 20mg, then I took nothing for few months and now after the adrenaline surges really ramping up I take one three times a day. It helps my fluctuating stress induced blood pressure issues and I've noticed that I'm not getting quite the same rushes of adrenaline. I was told that it was fine to vary the dose as needed though one GP said that if I went up to the 3 times 3 a day for any length of time that my prescription allowed I'd need to cut down gradually. I took them many years ago for migraine prevention and stopped them because of dry eye syndrome but so far at the low doses , I've been ok. It maybe that you do better with BBs and counselling than with an antidepressant. There's quite a lot of evidence that ads ( the clue being in the name) work far better for depression than anxiety! X

[Justjules]

Thanks Coldethyl.  I might try one when I get home from work.  I don't really understand BBs in that I thought you had to take them regularly - yet it seems people on here just take them willy nilly when they feel they need one.  Doesn't that make the body a bit up and down and not sure what is happening?  I'm still convinced I should have tapered off my BBs and that all this adrenaline is caused by the withdrawal too soon but then I'm not a medical expert am I??

[coldethyl]

I think as well as their cumulative effect, bbs have a quick short acting effect so you can take them as needed. When I started I'd take one as soon as I woke up then one at bed and another one or two at bed if I couldn't settle. That didn't work as well as taking one three times a day for me so that is what I now do. I think at such low doses that it just takes the edge off the adrenaline without making the body over reliant on it. The dr at a and e that I saw at Xmas said that the 20mg I was taking then was virtually a placebo

[dangermouse]

People with high blood pressure should take them as an ongoing course to keep their BP low. For those who are taking them for adrenal rushes, then as and when is how its prescribed. My prescription label actually has that printed on it 'to take as needed'.

[babyjane]

The dr at a and e that I saw at Xmas said that the 20mg I was taking then was virtually a placebo

Goodness me then what was the 5mg I was taking.  And yet it helped, it really did.

I am off them now and just using the Escitalopram, but if I was faced with a stressful event I would use a half a BB to cope with it if I felt I needed to.

[Justjules]

Maybe it's the different types BJ? I've just doubled my Citalopram so don't want to get side affects from something that I don't know which is causing what.

[dangermouse]

I found 5mg worked as well, as the first time I took them I cut mine in half as expected side effects. They probably work more powerfully when your body isn't used to them as well, like most drugs.

[CLKD]

Cutting ADs about will alter the uptake in the body  .  Which is why they come in 5mg upwards.  I take 5mg morning and night with Propranolol 20mg morning and night for anxiety - it states clearly to be taken daily and not to stop without permission so why would anyone be taking it 'as required' - it's a cumulative effect!

JJ - is your husband not listening?  I would stop telling him anything 

[dangermouse]

I meant I cut the Propranolol 10mg into 5mg. They are serrated so are safe to do so. So no, not ADs!

[coldethyl]

Cutting ADs about will alter the uptake in the body  .  Which is why they come in 5mg upwards.  I take 5mg morning and night with Propranolol 20mg morning and night for anxiety - it states clearly to be taken daily and not to stop without permission so why would anyone be taking it 'as required' - it's a cumulative effect!

JJ - is your husband not listening?  I would stop telling him anything 

My prescription carries the generic warning not to stop without permission- that's because BBs are used for a whole host of heart issues and other conditions where it wouldn't be wise to just stop, but for anxiety issues, my GP said that you can be flexible and I have been prescribed to use as and when with the proviso if I was regularly at my maximum dose, I'd come down gradually. BBs are pretty fast acting so there's an immediate as well as a cumulative effect.

[Justjules]

Well started the increase in the Citalopram yesterday from 10mg to 20mg. 

I just want someone (medically trained i.e. pharmacist or Dr) to admit that this awful trembling and shaking and panic in a morning and sometimes into the afternoon is a withdrawal affect of coming off the BBs but they keep saying 20mg of sotalol twice a day was a very small dose and wouldn't make that much difference!!!  I know it has made a huge difference - yes, I could accept that initially it could have been psychological but I'm 6 weeks in from not taking them now and the last week has been the worst with the shaking and trembling.  Still getting the racing heart first thing in the morning but can almost breathe myself out of that but it's still bothering me.  I just feel in a right quandary now - don't know what is causing what.  To think that I was weepy and felt hopeless up to Christmas and depressed but didn't feel this c**p....I feel that my whole system has now been messed around and I can't get it back to some sort of equilibrium.  Each Dr you see, says something else.  We had a fire alarm test at work this morning and I could hardly walk down the fire escape and round the corner of the road to where we have to assemble without becoming a trembling wreck.  It's easing off a bit now as it usually does throughout the day but it's really getting me down now to the point I am seriously thinking of taking myself off to a&e in the morning when I'm off as I want some answers.  Could it be thyroid - even though bloods say okay apparently that is not a good enough guide?  This could be a medical problem that is being ignored or put down to anxiety.  Yet I know, that really it all started when I messed my system up with the awful Sertraline and the withdrawals from that, then coming off the BBs and then straight onto the Citalopram.  I have nobody left to speak to.  After the other day's fiasco at the Drs with husband and then him being extremely mean to me yesterday morning about the issues I have at work (he blames me), I have no time for him.  He sent at text saying we would go out for tea last night but I just ignored him and he wondered why - how can you just go out for tea as if all the horrible things he says don't affect me?  He says I am an attention seeker and that is really hurtful.  I can't keep talking to my family as they are good but I'm pushing everybody to the limit of sympathy now as they think it's just all down to me to get better but I'm drowning.  Started off being positive today and telling myself that I'm going to feel better once the Citalopram dose kicks in but I can't cope with the symptoms I'm getting until they do.  I'm sick of living this way.  I don't want to see a psychiatrist - I don't want anti-psychotic drugs....I don't want to put anything else in my body at the moment until I know for a fact what the heck is wrong with me.  I've always been anxious and had plenty of 'episodes' where I've had to take time off work but this time this is so different so if somebody just told me it was just the withdrawals and it will go, I can then get on with it.

[Kate50]

Feel for you justjules sounds like you need to go off sick again.  What's the point of money if you feel this Shit.  Sounds like you are toxic and the citalopram will be adding to it years ago when i took it I felt shit on it for 2 months I came off it once I didn't sleep for weeks properly. Then it just started working. It made everything twice as bad till it took charge of my brain!  Then it was the same when I cane off it. So you will be having withdrawal from the other stuff it's rubbish what the Dr say they haven't had it and they just say what the drug company print. Your husband probably can't cope that's why he being like he is and actually that's his problem!
If I was looking after you the first thing I would say is your not going to work then I would get some detox and grounding remedies in you.  You need to calm your system down and have time to think rationally.  Think about yourself one day you will be dead will it have been worth it?
Are you on any hrt?
Stick with your instincts!

[dangermouse]

It could be the rebound effect but if its still ongoing and you haven't been on them a while then it could also be your oestrogen levels causing excess adrenaline to pump out to keep your heart beating adequately, particularly if you get it early morning and late afternoon (2-6pm roughly) when natural adrenaline peaks.

It caused incredible shaking, overwhelming energy racing through my body and extreme nausea for me. It was terrifying until I worked out what it was! The pill is keeping mine under control for now but not sure of your HRT options?

The beta blockers will dampen the adrenaline and the ADs may also help indirectly. The source could be low oestrogen though if you would prefer to start there if you have options?

You really are not 'drowning', you are still here - trust me, the words we use get taken literally by the subconscious so that will cause you more panic! You really are surviving but you're also in a hyper alert state because of the adrenaline. I really would take a 10mg BB now and you'll notice in an hour or 2 you will feel less overwhelmed - try to distract yourself whilst you're waiting for it to kick in. I used to call a friend and ask them to chat with me whilst I waited as it was such an unsettling feeling, regardless of knowing whats causing it.

Even if it is rebound from stopping the BBs, having one now and again will then be a gentle way of coming off of them. You have not messed up your system as levels will ALWAYS fall back to normal once you stop whatever you took for long enough. ADs can make you feel worse before you feel better, so that may also not be helping.

Perhaps sit down later with your husband and tell him that he really disappointed you by thinking you were seeking attention and that's why you ignored him. He's probably a bit lost with it all and keeps putting his foot in it saying the wrong thing! To put it mildly. Hopefully, its not coming from a negative place, just ignorance. Try to be assertive with him (less emotional, so neither aggressive nor passive) so that he can clearly understand your concerns and explain that many women suffer in the same way but most of us don't have them in our circle of friends as it is an extreme hormonal imbalance, not just classic menopause.

You'll get through this, don't worry!