Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: Justjules on April 25, 2016, 11:20:42 AM
-
Hi ladies
This shaking is getting me down now and I'm worrying its down to something other than anxiety as I've never experienced this before. I am sure it started a week after take the Citalopram but yesterday was awful. It starts in the morning when I get up and my legs are so wobbly going downstairs and then I shake externally and internally until mid-morning. I was leaning against the bedhead this morning with my cuppa and my head started to shake and all my shoulders from the pressure of leaning. I am in work this morning and I have had a really bad hypo already, can't seem to stop it, I thought I was going to collapse when I went to the loo earlier. I also have the runs (sorry tmi) Have just taken my very last diazepam :'( so will see if it calms down but I am getting seriously scared that this could be the start of MS, motor neurone (yes, googled....) because I can't see how this muscle weakness and trembling is caused by the citalopram as I never had this with them before... I am probably being ridiculous but I can't cope with this any more. I am half thinking shall I go to a&e (before they strike tomorrow!) or just try and see Dr?
I am wondering whether it has anything to do with the Vitamin D mega dose as I took my second one on Saturday so could be the affects from that maybe that's making it worse as it just won't pass of today? I know Sarai was bad when she had to take her Vitamin D.
I am scared they will keep me in and do MRIs and stuff and I've always had one pupil larger than the other so they may find something nasty. Oh heck, I've gone catastrophic again.... :'( :'(
-
Haven't you just ::) but your worries are real for you! I suspect that it is most likely to be low blood sugar. When did you eat B4 going to bed last night? and what is your daily diet like? The 'runs' can make a person feel woozy and strange; yesterday I went a 'lot' and felt quite queasy afterwards :-\ which took 30 mins. to settle. But I know now that it *will* settle and it's because my bowel has emptied and there's a gap.
I don't have many problems when I've taken the AD. I take 5mg at night and 5mg at breakfast.
Eat Girl, Eat!
-
CKLD, I ate a banana and had a glass of milk before I went to bed last night just to see if it made any difference to the early morning heart racing but it didn't. I must admit, even though I do always eat 3 times a day, plus snacks, I have only eaten lighter meals the last few days as I haven't been as hungry. I know what you mean about feeling washed out after being to the loo, I have that sometimes when my IBS plays up but like you say, it does settle after a while.
I read that the Vitamin D supplement can lower blood sugar if you are susceptible so I think it could be part of it. Good job the windows in the office aren't high because I would jump out of it the way I feel today.
How would I know if this was 'hormonal' or not - can you still be tested for low oestrogen at 59? Would it matter now being 7 years post meno?
-
It could be any one of the several hormones affecting you, i.e. cortisol (?) first thing in the morning, apparently if it spikes in the early hours it can cause anxiety surges. Bugga >:(. It could be adrenaline, you are already in an anxious state and having to go to work …… is enough to cause that awful feeling. It isn't simply sexual hormones that cause us problems but thyroid, adrenaline etc. can muck up how we feel. If you haven't eaten - I've been the same recently, not really hungry and then preferring junk (i.e. Gu products ……… rather than bananas etc.; and yesterday I ate a lot of very sweet grapes which filled me up but not as 'food' would do ……..
I have to be SO careful otherwise 2-3 days later my body makes demands on my energy levels = anxiety :-\
Get another banana down you ;-).
-
Stay off google. I get something similar. I feel like I'm vibrating inside some days and it is very disconcerting. Sometimes my blood sugar is low but usually not. I think it's just one of those things, a combination of hormonal fluctuations and anxiety. At the minute I've a bunged ear which is making me feel off balance and I get the nausea some days .. Its easy to think it's a brain tumour, MS etc as worrying is our default position but it is far more likely to be anxiety. Anxiety is the great mimicker - have you ever read anxiety centre website - just the symptoms list- when our bodies are under stress all the stress hormones play havoc with every bodily system and the list of side effects are endless. I don't know what to suggest as you seem in such distress but from the outside it looks like symptom shifting due to anxiety to me. Only a few days ago it was your heart , now it's neurological. I've been there , done that and an still wearing the tshirt so you have my sympathy. Only you can break this habit - it may be that you need to see your GP and discuss whether post meno HRT might help, though from reading on here, it doesn't always help with anxiety and depression. I'd be inclined to see my GP and ask for a referral to a psychiatrist who would be able to look at different medication, sort therapy out with a psychologist or refer you to a specialist centre with greater expertise than your local mental health team.
-
Oh Jules, I really do feel for you. I don't know how I would cope with working full time and having anxiety. Have you ever thought it's just as you wake you are so worried you're going to have the racing heart and they other symptoms everyday that it is just the anxiety kicking in again? It's all pyschological and that clever bugger 'anxiety' can make you experience symptoms.
I get the shaking thing and the internal shaking. My mother also started with the internal shaking after my Dad died. It went on for quite a while, so is no doubt anxiety related.
You are very naughty for googling, especially in your current state. I have stopped googling so much since finding so many on here with similar anxiety problems.
The runs is down to your anxiety and that exacerbates your IBS. I only work 3 mornings a week. When I started this job, every day I was at work, I had the runs upto 3 times before I went to work but once there, I was fine. This went on for about six months and luckily has calmed down but I know it was because of my anxiety.
I met a lady with MS on my holiday, she was such a lovely woman. She said she doesn't let it beat her. Plus MS is not life threatening. As for motor neurone..I just looked at the symptoms of that and as far as I can tell, you aren't experiencing any of them.
Sorry to laugh at your one pupil larger than the other...my whole left side has everything larger than the other...pupil, breast, foot! I really do feel for you Jules but as a fellow sufferer, I can tell you hand on heart that all of this is your anxiety and you have no life threatening illness.
To put your mind at rest, why don't you go to the GP and ask about the problems you have on a morning? As I say, I can't imagine working full time with my anxiety, so no doubt working is increasing your anxiety as you obviously panic about what happens if you're having an attack at work. Perhaps the Dr can sign you off again?
Rather than google, just post on here as often as you like and hopefully your fellow sufferers can reassure you.
xx
-
Coldethyl, thanks. I read about the 'vibrating' feeling as it seems a lot of anxious or meno symptoms can be this but this is more of a muscle weakness trembling. I know, I will speak to the GP and see what she suggests. I know you're right - I do swap around worrying about different things but it's just one thing after another now. I don't know what's going on with me at the moment, I've been bad since the Sertraline episode and just can't get right. I have a wedding to go to Sunday night and supposed to be going to Manchester overnight with DH on Friday and he'll go mad when I tell him I won't be going - just can't face it and he's so unsympathetic so I won't feel bad as I don't feel 'safe' being there and feeling so rubbish in the morning in a hotel.
-
Hi Halfpint - I'm a bloomin wreck at the moment. I handled the racing heart this morning by telling it to 'bugger off' basically and it helped - did manage to get back to sleep and each time I woke, said the same thing and so was pleased with myself but then was really bad when I got up so then the whole cycle got out of hand so by the time I came into work, it was at it's height. I think I would be worse just sat at home at the moment as I definitely would just loll around and worry more. I daren't take any more time off sick as they have definitely paid my quota of full pay and so would only get SSP and that would then add to my anxiety even more. There's a root cause of all this somewhere in my brain and I need to find it I think as the thought of being like this for the rest of my life is unbearable.
I've just taken my last diazepam and it's easing off but now I am panicking I haven't any more.....don't think Dr will let me have any either as I've been on and off them since Christmas and they aren't good to be on long term.
I don't know what I'd do if I didn't vent on here....I used to go on 'No More Panic' but that used to make me feel much worse not better. At least there are plenty of rationale people on here who are kind enough to respond and try to help. x
-
jj, the trouble with cancelling your plans is that you just reinforce the idea that there is something wrong with you. I'd say try and go to Manchester. If you feel bad at least it's a big city with excellent hospitals!! I don't mean that flippantly as I feel safest when I know there is an a and e near by. If you let your world shrink, anxiety will never stop at not going to Manchester.. Next it'll be not going to the cinema, or the supermarket etc. My aunt was convinced she had cancer or some serious stomach issue and took to her bed( with hindsight in the perimenopause) in her late 40s. She refused to believe that her problem was an anxiety one and sadly after her husband had a heart attack and died, she ended up in a care home where she died at 60. My mum also had agoraphobia but she kept battling away, taking one step forward and several back over the years. She is off to Prague next month. I know who I'd rather copy. Don't let this beat you. Go to the doctors and demand help. Not for all the possible illnesses you fear you might have, but for the one you do have - health anxiety. There are centres of excellence such as the Maudsley that specialise in dealing with ocd and health anxiety and it maybe that you need to think about that level of help if antidepressants and counselling aren't helping much.
-
I agree with coldethyl...DO NOT let it beat you. By not going to Manchester, you are giving into it. Now I know how you feel as I have often cancelled things and then straight away my anxiety eases but the last year or so, I have been making a conscious effort to not give into it and face my fears. This included getting a job after not working for a very long time. I also used to cancel a lot when due to meet friends but I now force myself to go and to events like weddings etc...and the amazing thing is, as soon as I get there, my anxiety eases and I end up enjoying myself.
My worst fear was that I was letting the anxiety make me more or less a recluse. I think the worst thing you could do is cancel your weekend plans. Then it becomes a vicious circle of you believing that your anxiety will lessen if you don't go to places.
I would love to know the root cause of my anxiety as well but having had it now going on 40 odd years, I suppose it's like my 'old friend' but a very annoying friend at that! I have learnt to rationalise it and as I have mentioned before, I do not take any medication for it but that's my personal choice after reading far too many forums etc where people said the medication made them feel worse. It's a long hard slog to feeling better, but at the moment, you are in a dark place but there is light at the end of the tunnel..
You are right, it's better for you to be at work than at home but in the same instance, it's better for you to go away at the weekend with your husband than stay at home wallowing in your anxiety. I have found that if I keep busy and keep my mind occupied and if I sleep well (not easy with menopause) and eat well and exercise (walking) then I do feel a lot better but of course my anxiety is always there peeping over my shoulder but I try my hardest to brush it off and tell it to 'bugger off'.
x
-
It isn't letting it 'beat' anything, it's about handling the anxiety surges to the best of our ability. It isn't giving in, it's about being aware of what we can/not cope with ! Of course one might feel OK when 1 gets to the venue but is the preceding anxiety worth it?
Do speak to your GP about more Valium. Explain that you are using it as required, which he/she will see from records. If mine stopped my emergency meds. I would jump off a cliff which would be a total waste of the last few years :'( whereas knowing that they do work when necessary, enables me. For me, continual anxiety is life threatening.
Do what is 'right' for you, stop trying to please others. If DH doesn't like it, tuff! he shouldn't be relying on you to have a good time himself! Don't say you won't go, see how you feel on the morning of the journey. If you can get as far as Manchester, all well and good. But would it be better to stay at home where you can relax than looking over your shoulder all the while? I have made up my mind that if I can't cope in the week leading up to an event, then I don't go! then the anxiety lessens which enables me to do the essentials!
-
Coldethyl, if DH was a teeny bit supportive I would manage it a lot better but he's not so that in itself makes the anxiety worse. I don't want to give into it but feeling bad like I do at the moment makes it impossible to enjoy it. What else can the GP do but refer me to more CBT, a psychiatrist (who will fill me full of more drugs) or a local mental health team which I had experience of many years ago and never again....sorry to be so negative but feel like I will always be stuck like this and it frightens me. I am calm sat here tonight but dreading bedtime as the whole scenario will start again in the morning...and yes, I know, that's 'anticipatory anxiety'!!
Halfpint, I admire you for coping without any meds. I didn't think I would need them again but Dr did once say I would probably benefit from a 'maintenance dose' for life as I can't remember a time when I didn't feel low constantly. I wish I had gone down the HRT route years ago instead. I try to rationalise it as much as I can but the fear is the default with me so I end up failing all the time. Today has been particularly bad, but I survived again, so hopefully my brain will accept this and give me a break!
Thanks, appreciate your thoughts and responses very much. X
-
My husband is similar. He shouts at me which makes me worse.
Glad you got through the day. I always say to myself 'well I got through it' and give myself a pat on the back.
I hope you wake tomorrow feeling less anxious x
-
You are NOT giving in to anything! You are suffering anxiety, which although 'natural' in that it's the prehistoric flight/fight response which keeps us alive, is currently in over-drive. Would you consider it 'giving in' if you had a tummy bug or broken leg! Until the public get rid of this idea that mental health issues are controllable, the stigma will never go away :'(. Knowing that it's 'natural' has never helped me, once the anxiety takes over ………. it literally floors me. Which is why I need the anti-anxiety medication. Not every time I get anxious but if it begins to spiral ……..
As for your husband not being supportive - why are you still together :-\. Is he afraid of illness so buries his head or does he believe that that bullying makes the situation better? I'm not good when people are ill ………. never have been >sigh< :-[ but having had my problems I can now be less judgemental.
Fear is all controlling. I thought for years that I would never feel 'normal' again :'( but with support from my Husband and GP and accepting that I HAVE to take low maintenance dose of AD for Life, enables me. For years before going on holiday I would pack weeks in advance in case panic over took me so that I was unable to do so. That at least was then out of the way ::). Learning coping skills can help.
-
Justjules, I think I know how you feel. My "anxiety" was so bad months ago they my legs felt like they wouldn't hold me. Sometimes standing in the shower was a chore. I trembled constantly. I could walk or I could lie down, but sitting still or standing still was nearly impossible. I was convinced that I had something else neurological going on. Added estrogen has helped most of the physical manifestations of my "anxiety" but mentally I'm still often wrecked. I'm not so weak and trembling as I was, now I'm only hyper-emotional. And it switches on out of nowhere. I've tried to pay attention to triggers. Sure, being nervous or stressed about something can do it, but often times I wake in the morning with no plans to do anything but work and play around the house and the unsettled feeling is there. It's very uncomfortable. Then I think about how miserable it feels and wonder of it will ever subside so I can be normal again and I melt into tears. I have read about the not giving into it idea that changing plans only reinforces it, but I'm not sure I buy that. I do what I'm comfortable doing when I feel I will succeed. Last week I tried to push beyond my comfort level. I already knew I was having a nervy day, but tried to ignore it and push on. I failed miserably, and I think that failure set me back more than bailing out to begin with would have. I am doing more now than I had been doing. I'm doing everything I possibly can. It just happens that a lot of things are impossible for me right now. I am sick and tired of this, and I don't know what you should do, other than as CLKD says, do what feels right to you. My husband has been very supportive. He's doing everything for my family now and not complaining. But I still feel the pressure to get back to the routine and carry my weight. I asked him if he could help me take the kids to the doctor appointment that I had to reschedule from my failed attempt last week. He didn't tell me that I need to get myself together. He stated the fact that he is very busy at work this week but he would try. It was pure, nonjudgmental fact, but I took it as extreme pressure to get my act together. Although it helps to have a supportive husband, unless he can turn this mental stuff around, all the support in the world doesn't relieve the pressure we put on ourselves. I'm not saying you're putting too much pressure on yourself. I know I am not aspiring to end world hunger or anything, I would just like to be able to hop in the car and run to the park on a nice day without giving it a second thought. I am avoiding the ADs as long as I can, because I see where so many women have trouble adjusting to them and getting the right ones, and later coming off of them, just like hrt. To me it seems like yet another set of levels and dosages to contend with. I will try them eventually if in time this doesn't work out. What CLKD said about the other hormones, I have my thyroid levels tested, and I plan to ask about cortisol. Part of my hesitancy about the ADs is that they don't test anything to determine that physiologically I need an AD. They can test my sex hormones, thyroid, adrenals, vitamin D, etc but the ADs feels like a stab in the dark for the ADs. Anyhow, I'm rambling but wanted to give you a little support and let you know you're not alone.
-
I felt like you Lizab - I wanted a reason for my depression but there are no tests. I have a genetic pre-disposition on both sides of the family for 100 years so have a chocolate tea-pots chance of surviving. However, once I accepted that depression is an illness and that Researchers spend hours in Labs. formulating medication for all kinds of illnesses, and found that by taking ADs regularly because my brain, as an organ, needs support; Himself and I had a life again. Add medication to help the anxiety and most days, I cope.
Jittery this morning. Up early. Builder expected. Been to the loo :-\ = anxiety threatening :sigh:
Why did you take your husband's words as criticism :-\ - don't you believe him? He can't, anymore than you are able to, turn your mental problems around. But from where I am, he's supportive! He is being honest, he's busy at work this week ……
If you use Vick and Kleenex for a cold, is that giving in :-\
-
Thanks Lizab. That is comforting to know that you have had similar issues with the trembling/shaking. I don't know what the answer is either. I am doing nothing at the moment at home apart from the basics. I even have a cleaner fortnightly now so I leave all that. I looked at the ironing pile last night and it looks like Mount Everest but I can't even be bothered or have the energy to do that. I come to work, go home and cook and clear up, stick some washing in and then same the next day until the weekend and that is take my Mum out Saturday and see family Sunday. I felt so bad yesterday that I really thought I'd end up collapsing but then at least I would be taken to hospital and get sorted but then I don't have any faith in Drs either!!! I feel like an alien amongst 'normal' people, family, friends, work colleagues. Real mental illness must be dreadful i.e. the ones where you end up in a specialised unit or something but just having anxiety issues feels like some form of mental torture that is never ending. I am scared that I am making myself physically unwell on top of it by my poor system being in this state constantly.
Don't be put off by the ADs - I honestly am tablet phobic but apart from an awful experience with Sertraline after Christmas, I've always been absolutely fine on Citalopram. If you get the back up of some valium for the first few weeks if needed for any side affects, that will sort it.
xx
-
"just having anxiety" - nothing is 'only' or 'just' !!!! and anxiety is a mental illness. Which is why we must ditch the stigma of talking about mental issues and how do we know that others are 'normal'? What is 'normal' exactly?
They may well be suffering too :-\ ……… I often stand in a queue waiting to pay: yep I can do that most days now : and wonder how many others are in difficulty.
I have felt like I might collapse, from the inside out like my belly collapses to be followed by my whole body :-\. Then my thighs go weak and I begin to feel ill. It does pass though. I tend to stick to a firm routine each morning and as I relax then I can decide whether to go into town etc..
-
CLKD, I didn't feel criticized when my husband told me that. I simply felt intense pressure, the truth of it being my current state is a burden. You know how you can hear the nuances when your husband speaks, he is stressed. He doesn't blame me at all, but I know I am adding to his stress. At times he is not as supportive as he could be, but bless him, he would have to tread lightly all the time to avoid upsetting me. My feelings are annoyingly fragile lately.
As for the meds, I haven't completely ruled them out. It's that I know that the onset of my anxiety issues coincided with the absence of my periods. I hope my body and my will adjust and find equilibrium. When this anxiety popped up, my intention was to ask the doctor for ADs, but after researching here and online, I learned that, well for one, all of my issues are common in menopause, and also that at my age hrt is more necessity than choice. My plan had been to take ADs until my hormones settled. Now I'm trying to settle my hormones, and if that doesn't succeed, then try the ADs.
-
Some ladies find that they require HRT plus an AD to ease mental problems.
I remember feeling guilty when I was unable to go out/work/clean house/garden :'(. Until Himself sat me down and we had 'the talk'.
-
A few things that may help:
1. I too had the shaking and weakness, it was so bad once in A&E that the paper the doctor tried to get me to balance on my hands just kept going up in the air - the severity actually made us all start laughing! Now (on the pill) i still get it when hormones go low at the beginning of my cycle and last week I was struggling to use my fork when eating as my left arm/hand was so weak and shaky. I suspect its to do with glycogen being shunted to where its most needed when levels are low as its also a common feature of dehydration.
2. Vitamin D is a hormone, and supplementation can cause quite severe symptoms in some hormone imbalanced people. For me, even a small amount made my body swell up as if I'd taken steroids, so a high dose might not be ideal whilst you are working out what suits you.
3. Diazepam has a rebound effect as it wears off which causes anxiety to go higher than normal and, as you say, its not a good drug to take regularly due to its high dependence nature. Low dose beta blockers are much safer and do not cause severe drowsiness or interfere with the mind, they just dampen adrenal hormones and can be taken as and when.
The effects of hormonal imbalance are so strong and far-reaching, it really can feel as if no body part or system is safe! I even had severe jaw/teeth pain last week which had vanished by the time I got to see the dentist. I'm even starting to wonder if my hormones are affecting my dodgy central heating. Nothing surprises me now.
-
Out of interest dangermouse, what did they say about your shaking/weakness when you went to A&E? I once went with tingling on my top lip and my arm feeling weak. Turned out I had poked an ear bud in my ear too far and damaged the nerve. When I asked about my weak arm he said 'it's psychological'. As soon as he said that, my arm weakness disappeared!
As for your jaw/teeth pain. My husband gets terrible jaw pain but Dentist said he is grinding his teeth at night. I get aching teeth but that's down to my sinuses according to the Dentist.
=================================================================================
How are things now Jules?
-
The a&e doc told me it was all down to dehydration (I couldn't eat much at the time as had severe nausea) but a drip made me worse (as the minerals cause stimulation) and when I told them I felt more sick after they told me I had a 'tummy bug' - some kind of medical speak... To be fair, perimenopause isn't an easy diagnosis to come up with by a junior doctor after spending 5 minutes with you. Would be nice if they mentioned it as a possibility to female patients over 40 with an odd array of symptoms. I suspect they don't know this either though.
I don't have actual bruxism, just a hyper mobile jaw on one side that doesn't normally cause pain, but a sore finger joint flared up at the same time so it's probably hormonal inflammation.
-
I'm in peri and find I get very nauseous just before I get a period. I think a period is on it's way as I have nausea the last few days plus digestive problems which seems to be occuring on the lead up to a period.
I have always drunk peppermint tea, so I drink a lot of that as it helps with the nausea and also means I'm not getting dehydrated.
My joints are always aching. My ankles, knees, hips, elbows, wrists, fingers! Dr said I had arthritis when I asked him about my stiff neck and shoulders and just told me to exercise more and take ibupofren and paracetomol. I've tried walking a lot more recently but once I sit down, my joints cease up.
-
I'm in peri and find I get very nauseous just before I get a period. I think a period is on it's way as I have nausea the last few days plus digestive problems which seems to be occuring on the lead up to a period.
I have always drunk peppermint tea, so I drink a lot of that as it helps with the nausea and also means I'm not getting dehydrated.
My joints are always aching. My ankles, knees, hips, elbows, wrists, fingers! Dr said I had arthritis when I asked him about my stiff neck and shoulders and just told me to exercise more and take ibupofren and paracetomol. I've tried walking a lot more recently but once I sit down, my joints cease up.
I often get morning nausea- just like morning sickness without the bump! In fact nausea was one of my earlier peri symptoms. Been shocking this week which I put down to the ear infection I have ( interesting about your dodgy top lip as mine has been awful all week and poking with bud was involved as ear felt bunged- it's not just badly infected!) but lo and behold when I popped to bathroom this afternoon I have come on- a mere 16 days since the last one. What was that I said to my GP about not being bothered by the bleeding side of peri? Arghhh.
-
Yes coldethyl, the nausea is just like in pregnancy. I was never actually sick whilst pregnant but used to feel very nauseous.
The Dr gave me a telling off for using cotton buds! He said you should never insert them in your ear. He said I had hit the nerve and the tingling would take a week to go. I will never forget it as it was one of my really bad health anxiety attacks. I was out with a friend and her young child and went into a massive panic and she took me to A&E (I know what health issue I thought I had and it's because a friend of my parents had died of it a few week previously) I had to wait ages to be seen and then of course started calming down and felt like a bit of a fraud. I did stop using cotton buds for absolutely ages but I do occasionally use them now but if I get the tingling, I know it's from that.
What I am noticing now before I come on is I keep getting tingling..face, fingers. I feel nauseous, very tired, my IBS plays up, joint aches. Another thing I have is itching. I have very itchy areas behind my right ear and at the top of my chest and now itching on the left side in the crease near my underarm. I also get similar symptoms around ovulation.
I remember about your ear...try not to poke it!
-
Dangermouse, I need to take the mega dose Vitamin D as it was very low and Dr said the affects of that would be far worse than any side affects if I didn't take it. Who are you supposed to believe. My family say I read too much about stuff instead of just taking what I'm prescribed and trusting the Dr!
Hopefully, the valium won't have had too much of an affect on my system. I wasn't taking them every day, just intermittently when needed but I have had a few packs since before Christmas when this all kicked off again.
-
I've stopped reading the side effects with meds. If there is drowsiness warning sticker on the bottle I'll read that, but I give the papers to my husband and tell him to read it. That way if I have dangerous effects he'll know, and I won't let it go to my head and convince myself I'm dying.
-
I rarely read the leaflets with medication ::) - I can make my own side-effects without any help :D
As for poking the ear - nothing larger than 1's little finger should be inserted!
Aching - as oestrogen levels drop muscles become lax = aches and pains which is why gentle exercise is important. I feel that my thigh muscles are becoming weak so try to walk or use the treadmill daily. Even gardening is exercise!
Nausea can be eased by eating ginger or taking a travel sickness medication.
-
Well, just as an update ladies - not got any better with the trembling limbs and shaking and as it was making me go into a full blown panic every morning, after being on my own on Friday night and it happening Saturday morning, took myself off to emergency Dr. Not my usual GP but he said it was 'excessive adrenaline' caused by anxiety, told me to up my Citalopram to 20mg now and that I could start on a BB again!! This is after I was taken off them by my GP 6 weeks ago so I could go back on the Citalopram.
Been back to see my own GP this morning and she frightened me to death because she said it could be something 'medical' that is causing this excessive adrenaline so wanted me to have a 24 hour urine test to check for adrenal tumours but I told her I had this done a few years back and it was all okay. I also told her this trembling shaking only started after I stopped my BBs and started the Citalopram. She also said I was tachycardic but I was in a state and she knows my heart rate is usually high at 80 bmp anyway. She said she would see me in a couple of weeks and to have an ecg before I come so that she can give me the option of going back on the BBs if I want to (but even that's now set me thinking she thinks there's something wrong with my heart). I just don't know what to do anymore. I can't stand this every day. Even having the family over yesterday was too much - I was in the kitchen trying to get stuff ready and my legs and body felt so weak I really didn't think I could do it - so took a valium and was okay but this is ridiculous. I am now seriously starting to think that it isn't all anxiety at all. Thinking of plucking up the courage to pay to have a body scan or something. I am so desperate now.
I should add, I talked husband into coming with me - big mistake. I think the Dr probably knows now that he is most of my problem. All he was bothered about was that I would back out of the holiday in June and that I catastrophise everything. Dr suggested making some lifestyle changes i.e. going 3 days a week and told him that ladies my age now struggle to work long hours etc. but she could tell I couldn't answer because he won't hear of it. When we got out, he said "well that was a complete waste of time - I don't know what I was there for - it's all in your head and you need to sort yourself out - I didn't get anything from that at all".....needless to say, I am even more stressed now. He then sent me a text to say he says that to make me realise that I need to be more positive and that I took him to the Drs with me to get him to see that I am ill instead of trying to get him to see that I am better than I had been!!!! I just want to either go to the hospital and say "sort me out - I can't do this anymore" or run away. I can't see an end to this health anxiety or whatever it is and no matter what I try, it doesn't help.
Sorry, it's just a really, really black day. I can't think of anywhere to go that I could have some respite.
-
Has your husband always been short on sympathy? :beat:
You have anxiety surges, probably nothing more serious. It is AWFUL. You can take Propranolol and Citalopram together, I take 20mg of the former with 5mg AD at night and morning - I cut the former in half as I was getting headaches. I also have an emergency anti-anxiety pill otherwise I wouldn't be here :-\. You can check if it's OK with your local Pharmacist, they have private rooms now, I use Lloyds often!
I suggest that you ring your Surgery and explain that you want something to help NOW, you really should not have to wait - insist that if the GP thinks you need an ECG she should have sent you to Hospital immediately so that the [probably normal] result would enable you to start the BBs: so she is probably fobbing you off. It all costs the Surgery and this sounds down to money!
You should ask for a community psychiatric nurse to call at home so that you have support. Your husband sounds as good as a chocolate T-pot.
Not that I'm cynical. As for your husband …… if mine had ever insinuated that I was a 'nuisance' or 'putting it on' he would have been out the door or I would have been off a Cliff!
Keep venting!
-
Hi Jules,
I've been wondering how you are getting on. Well from reading lots of threads the last few days about different subjects, it is clear that one Dr says one thing and another Dr says something else. They are so annoying!
If I was you, I would believe the emergency Dr. I really believe it is the adrenaline and your anxiety. But, as my friend always says to me. Dr's have to rule everything out so that's maybe why your Dr wanted to check it was nothing medical just so you can then accept that it is the adrenaline and to be honest, it sounds like they should never have taken you off the BB's. I would do as the emergency Dr said or do you have to get a prescription for the BB's from your regular GP?
As for your husband. Well he does sound very similar to mine but mine is sort of behaving himself lately. It used to be that if he shouted at me when I was panicking it would make me worse. I still think yours is like mine in that he is the way he is as really it's because he is worried but he can't show it and he thinks he needs to use 'tough love'. You really need to sit him down and explain that being the way he is it is making you ten times worse and definitely not working.
I agree with the Dr that you probably need to reduce your working week. The fact you have to struggle through work is not helping you. I could not work full time with my anxiety, I would be in a right state!
Go back and read your second paragraph about seeing your own Dr. No matter how much she frightened you, you then told her that you had the tests previous, you also know that your heart rate is usually high. You know that it's the anxiety. If this all started when you came off the BB's then I suggest you go back on them and see if it makes a difference. if not, then fine, your Dr needs to look into why but from the sounds of it all, it seems like you definitely need them.
Keep posting x
-
Trouble is, others can't feel what it's like if they have never had anxiety. That is not an excuse for sending such text messages though, I see it as controlling and abusive!
-
Sorry you are feeling so rubbish JJ. I know that your GP has probably scared you, but they are probably just trying to help and have to look at every possibility , no matter how remote. Your body has been used to BBs dampening things down for so long that I think coming off them is a much more likely cause of your increased anxiety. I really don't think taking a Valium would have any effect were it anything more serious. I know how awful the adrenaline surges can be - I get them as part of my hot flushes sometimes and some women get them instead of the classic flushes. I think you've just worked yourself into such a pickle that your GP is exploring all angles to try and help you. If your ECG is ok then it may be worth trying the bbs again alongside a different antidepressant. It might be worth a referral to a psychiatrist who had more experience of the medications on offer than your GP. Some now add an anti-psychotic to the mix to help with intractable anxiety if an AD is not enough on its own. Get the tests out of the way and then you can make informed choice x
-
I don't think there should be a wait if the GP is concerned! because that's delaying the start of the calming down process.
Maybe you ought to tell your husband that his comments and text messages are un-supportive, un-helpful and makes you feel a lot worse. ?? If he can't say something nice then keep Big Gob Shut?
-
If your really worried about your heart rate, JJ, maybe pop to a and e or whatever is near you and ask them to do an ECG. I don't think your GP is concerned by your heart , but an ECG is pretty standard before prescribing BBS alongside a contraindicated anti- depressant.
-
Coldethyl, I am not so much worried about my heart as I only had an ecg in a&e at the back end of last year after taking myself off there with chest pain and all was okay, even though I do have health anxiety about it. GP knows I have a high heart rate as she sent me for some tests years ago when I had a BB review just to check and again, saw the Cardiologist who said all was fine and to just stick with a low dose BB which I have for 15 odd years. Our nearest a&e has just shut down which doesn't help.....the next one is 25 mins away - great when you suffer from anxiety! GP said she wasn't worried about my heart, just doing it for reassurance for me I think is what she said - will check with numbskull husband tonight. Body is now just calming down as usual at this time of the day - it is so weird but by the time I get home and start the evening meal, I'm fit for nothing. Hasn't helped that work has been a nightmare today, we have a trial on tomorrow so I've had to photocopy 5 x 500 page files and typed Witness Statements so I'm drained.
x
-
I think if you've been taking betablockers for 15 yrs, that you're bound to be experiencing adrenaline surges now you are off it. I'd be inclined to see what other ads you could take alongside it as I imagine that taking it would be helpful but that if you are like me, the remote possibility of interaction with your ad is going to cause mental distress and physical symptoms .
-
Well of course according to the dr's you don't get side affects from coming off them, especially as my dose was supposedly very low :-\ and yes, you're right, I would be worrying about interactions even though she said I had taken both together for over 15 years with no problems.
-
Where's Halfpint gone :-\
-
She posted earlier....
-
I know - then vanished :'( and I liked her Spirit.
How R U this evening? If you are busy at work no wonder you have drained by the time you get home. How has your husband been - maybe show him 'advice for husbands' ?
-
You may then be having rebound tachycardia from stopping the beta blockers, it's a very common phenomena when you stop them suddenly after being on them for a while - you are meant to withdraw slowly. You should inform your GP if they don't know this and get back on them to withdraw slowly if you want/need to stop them.
Doctors eh! Perhaps your husband could do with some as well to calm him down.
-
CKLD, I was better last night as I usually am but then it's all kicked off again this morning by him indoors talking to me like he's a barrister and he takes anything I say absolutely literally so there's no reasoning with him so I needed a valium to get me out of the door to work...he wouldn't even read the advice for husbands if I put it in front of him....
Dangermouse, I am sure you are right - this is all because I stopped the betablockers but the Dr said the low dose I was on was more like a placebo - the duty dr gave me propranolol but I've been too scared to take them yet as they aren't the ones I was on before and I'm scared of side affects.
-
So sorry you are having such a hard time. The fact that Valium helps speaks volumes. If you had a physical cause for these symptoms it wouldn't make any difference to them.
What dose is the propranolol? Xx
-
I was given propranolol to take as and when, I think they are milder ones and better suited to dampening adrenaline than some of the others. I had zero side effects on 10mg (as had been worried it would lower my already low BP). It just stopped the adrenal surges and I remember I had them for weeks before I braved trying them as had a bad reaction to Valium as it wore off (rebound anxiety). They couldn't have been more different! Give one a try as you don't have to take as a course and then you won't get the rebound tach if you have big gaps between the doses.
-
Thanks Dangermouse, I think I need to try something as it starts my day off badly and I'm not coping with it. I just wish Drs would be more knowledgeable about these things. My family get cross because they say I don't take the Drs advice and that if she thought I needed them she would be prescribing them but it was the duty Dr who gave me them who said it was definitely adrenaline surges and that only the BBs would calm it down.
-
JJ, I take propranolol for exactly those reasons. I started with palpitations and tachycardia a few years back at the start of meno and I resisted taking them for ages until I had a bad episode last June that sent me to a and e early one morning. Nothing would settle me , not even Valium so I reluctantly took them. Started off on 40mg a day which wiped me out and lowered my BP too much so I was prescribed 10mg tablets to take as and when needed. For ages I took 20mg, then I took nothing for few months and now after the adrenaline surges really ramping up I take one three times a day. It helps my fluctuating stress induced blood pressure issues and I've noticed that I'm not getting quite the same rushes of adrenaline. I was told that it was fine to vary the dose as needed though one GP said that if I went up to the 3 times 3 a day for any length of time that my prescription allowed I'd need to cut down gradually. I took them many years ago for migraine prevention and stopped them because of dry eye syndrome but so far at the low doses , I've been ok. It maybe that you do better with BBs and counselling than with an antidepressant. There's quite a lot of evidence that ads ( the clue being in the name) work far better for depression than anxiety! X
-
Thanks Coldethyl. I might try one when I get home from work. I don't really understand BBs in that I thought you had to take them regularly - yet it seems people on here just take them willy nilly when they feel they need one. Doesn't that make the body a bit up and down and not sure what is happening? I'm still convinced I should have tapered off my BBs and that all this adrenaline is caused by the withdrawal too soon but then I'm not a medical expert am I?? :-\
-
I think as well as their cumulative effect, bbs have a quick short acting effect so you can take them as needed. When I started I'd take one as soon as I woke up then one at bed and another one or two at bed if I couldn't settle. That didn't work as well as taking one three times a day for me so that is what I now do. I think at such low doses that it just takes the edge off the adrenaline without making the body over reliant on it. The dr at a and e that I saw at Xmas said that the 20mg I was taking then was virtually a placebo
-
People with high blood pressure should take them as an ongoing course to keep their BP low. For those who are taking them for adrenal rushes, then as and when is how its prescribed. My prescription label actually has that printed on it 'to take as needed'.
-
The dr at a and e that I saw at Xmas said that the 20mg I was taking then was virtually a placebo
Goodness me then what was the 5mg I was taking. And yet it helped, it really did.
I am off them now and just using the Escitalopram, but if I was faced with a stressful event I would use a half a BB to cope with it if I felt I needed to.
-
Maybe it's the different types BJ? I've just doubled my Citalopram so don't want to get side affects from something that I don't know which is causing what.
-
I found 5mg worked as well, as the first time I took them I cut mine in half as expected side effects. They probably work more powerfully when your body isn't used to them as well, like most drugs.
-
Cutting ADs about will alter the uptake in the body >:(. Which is why they come in 5mg upwards. I take 5mg morning and night with Propranolol 20mg morning and night for anxiety - it states clearly to be taken daily and not to stop without permission so why would anyone be taking it 'as required' - it's a cumulative effect!
JJ - is your husband not listening? I would stop telling him anything >:(
-
I meant I cut the Propranolol 10mg into 5mg. They are serrated so are safe to do so. So no, not ADs!
-
Cutting ADs about will alter the uptake in the body >:(. Which is why they come in 5mg upwards. I take 5mg morning and night with Propranolol 20mg morning and night for anxiety - it states clearly to be taken daily and not to stop without permission so why would anyone be taking it 'as required' - it's a cumulative effect!
JJ - is your husband not listening? I would stop telling him anything >:(
My prescription carries the generic warning not to stop without permission- that's because BBs are used for a whole host of heart issues and other conditions where it wouldn't be wise to just stop, but for anxiety issues, my GP said that you can be flexible and I have been prescribed to use as and when with the proviso if I was regularly at my maximum dose, I'd come down gradually. BBs are pretty fast acting so there's an immediate as well as a cumulative effect.
-
Well started the increase in the Citalopram yesterday from 10mg to 20mg.
I just want someone (medically trained i.e. pharmacist or Dr) to admit that this awful trembling and shaking and panic in a morning and sometimes into the afternoon is a withdrawal affect of coming off the BBs but they keep saying 20mg of sotalol twice a day was a very small dose and wouldn't make that much difference!!! I know it has made a huge difference - yes, I could accept that initially it could have been psychological but I'm 6 weeks in from not taking them now and the last week has been the worst with the shaking and trembling. Still getting the racing heart first thing in the morning but can almost breathe myself out of that but it's still bothering me. I just feel in a right quandary now - don't know what is causing what. To think that I was weepy and felt hopeless up to Christmas and depressed but didn't feel this c**p....I feel that my whole system has now been messed around and I can't get it back to some sort of equilibrium. Each Dr you see, says something else. We had a fire alarm test at work this morning and I could hardly walk down the fire escape and round the corner of the road to where we have to assemble without becoming a trembling wreck. It's easing off a bit now as it usually does throughout the day but it's really getting me down now to the point I am seriously thinking of taking myself off to a&e in the morning when I'm off as I want some answers. Could it be thyroid - even though bloods say okay apparently that is not a good enough guide? This could be a medical problem that is being ignored or put down to anxiety. Yet I know, that really it all started when I messed my system up with the awful Sertraline and the withdrawals from that, then coming off the BBs and then straight onto the Citalopram. I have nobody left to speak to. After the other day's fiasco at the Drs with husband and then him being extremely mean to me yesterday morning about the issues I have at work (he blames me), I have no time for him. He sent at text saying we would go out for tea last night but I just ignored him and he wondered why - how can you just go out for tea as if all the horrible things he says don't affect me? He says I am an attention seeker and that is really hurtful. I can't keep talking to my family as they are good but I'm pushing everybody to the limit of sympathy now as they think it's just all down to me to get better but I'm drowning. Started off being positive today and telling myself that I'm going to feel better once the Citalopram dose kicks in but I can't cope with the symptoms I'm getting until they do. I'm sick of living this way. I don't want to see a psychiatrist - I don't want anti-psychotic drugs....I don't want to put anything else in my body at the moment until I know for a fact what the heck is wrong with me. I've always been anxious and had plenty of 'episodes' where I've had to take time off work but this time this is so different so if somebody just told me it was just the withdrawals and it will go, I can then get on with it.
-
Feel for you justjules sounds like you need to go off sick again. What's the point of money if you feel this Shit. Sounds like you are toxic and the citalopram will be adding to it years ago when i took it I felt shit on it for 2 months I came off it once I didn't sleep for weeks properly. Then it just started working. It made everything twice as bad till it took charge of my brain! Then it was the same when I cane off it. So you will be having withdrawal from the other stuff it's rubbish what the Dr say they haven't had it and they just say what the drug company print. Your husband probably can't cope that's why he being like he is and actually that's his problem!
If I was looking after you the first thing I would say is your not going to work then I would get some detox and grounding remedies in you. You need to calm your system down and have time to think rationally. Think about yourself one day you will be dead will it have been worth it?
Are you on any hrt?
Stick with your instincts!
-
It could be the rebound effect but if its still ongoing and you haven't been on them a while then it could also be your oestrogen levels causing excess adrenaline to pump out to keep your heart beating adequately, particularly if you get it early morning and late afternoon (2-6pm roughly) when natural adrenaline peaks.
It caused incredible shaking, overwhelming energy racing through my body and extreme nausea for me. It was terrifying until I worked out what it was! The pill is keeping mine under control for now but not sure of your HRT options?
The beta blockers will dampen the adrenaline and the ADs may also help indirectly. The source could be low oestrogen though if you would prefer to start there if you have options?
You really are not 'drowning', you are still here - trust me, the words we use get taken literally by the subconscious so that will cause you more panic! You really are surviving but you're also in a hyper alert state because of the adrenaline. I really would take a 10mg BB now and you'll notice in an hour or 2 you will feel less overwhelmed - try to distract yourself whilst you're waiting for it to kick in. I used to call a friend and ask them to chat with me whilst I waited as it was such an unsettling feeling, regardless of knowing whats causing it.
Even if it is rebound from stopping the BBs, having one now and again will then be a gentle way of coming off of them. You have not messed up your system as levels will ALWAYS fall back to normal once you stop whatever you took for long enough. ADs can make you feel worse before you feel better, so that may also not be helping.
Perhaps sit down later with your husband and tell him that he really disappointed you by thinking you were seeking attention and that's why you ignored him. He's probably a bit lost with it all and keeps putting his foot in it saying the wrong thing! To put it mildly. Hopefully, its not coming from a negative place, just ignorance. Try to be assertive with him (less emotional, so neither aggressive nor passive) so that he can clearly understand your concerns and explain that many women suffer in the same way but most of us don't have them in our circle of friends as it is an extreme hormonal imbalance, not just classic menopause.
You'll get through this, don't worry! :)
-
Thanks ladies.
Kate, it's not an option to finish work or take more time off as I think they wouldn't be as understanding. DR suggested cutting down but I felt the 'vibes' from husband to not even go there. He can easily afford for me to cut down but we are financially independent of each other (not my choice...) so the only option I would have is to go and live with my Mum who really couldn't cope with me now at her age like she used to even though she is my rock, it's not fair to put the stress on her.
Dangermouse, I can't take HRT now - too late. I wish I could. It was the only thing that sorted my Mum out when she was like this but she was younger than me when she took it and took it till she was in her 70s. I am 59 and 8 or 9 years post meno. Surely oestrogen can't be still a problem all these years later - does the body never get used to not having it anymore - after all, it's a natural progression for women. I am just nervous about starting a different BB as I was okay on the sotalol which my Dr will put me back on in two weeks if I want despite the risks with Citalopram if I have an ecg beforehand to reassure me that no heart problems, even though I had one last August and all was okay. This is all just wearing me out that's all. Husband doesn't understand but then he is always like that - very black and white, not sympathetic unless it was a 'real' illness like cancer and then I don't even know what he'd be like.
-
Hasty, but did they not start taking it in their early fifties when meno started? I can't find any advice or info on actually starting it post meno anywhere, especially not starting it at 60....
-
I believe that the thinking is the longer after menopause you think to start hrt the greater the risk ,so with you being 59 and post for 8/9 years is where the problems lie for you to start now. :-\
-
Are you eating properly? Adrenaline surges can be made worse when the body is hungry. Which is why NAPS suggested that I eat every 3 hours, 24/7. Keeps blood sugar levels more even and prevents the surges.
Anxiety feeds anxiety. If someone is worried about what effects of stopping medication they are likely to suffer with, it can make the anxiety surges happen more often. Have you tried deep breathing? For me I get weak thighs + wobbly knees + shaky calve muscles. Normal anxiety symptoms but awful!
I know 2 ladies who didn't begin HRT until they were 65 and are now in their 80s ::). Each lady should be treated as an individual ::)
-
Yes, eating every few hours like normal. Yes, do lots of deep breathing too. I will mention HRT to Dr next time but doubt she will let me on it. It might just be me clutching at straws to be honest just to get better.
-
If you haven't already please do email or print out this first post for your husband Justjules - it's great!
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2458.0.html
-
There seems to be a problem with your husband accepting The Change :-\
Ring your Surgery in the morning and ask about the support that is given to menopausal ladies or visit a Pharmacist to ask opinions on age etc. ;). If it's what you need to stay healthy then I can't see that age takes any part in that decision. :-X
-
Danger mouse, he's not remotely interested and I've tried getting him to read things about anxiety before.
CKLD, will ring and ask.
To make matters worse, our best friends, the husband has had a heart attack last night and it's bad. He's had bypass surgery before but he's been complaining to dr's for months that he wasn't right. That's set my heart anxiety right through the roof now....I need to go and get mine sorted as I can't believe there's nothing wrong when I'm waking up with tachycardia every morning. :'(
-
Justjules- :hug: X
-
Thanks Dyan. X