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[Chi chi]

I've been on BHRT for just over a year now and not sure if it's working? If I should stop? If I need to change my AD's

My low mood and anxiety is just as bad now as when I started, I still ache in my joints and other various places and I still get headaches most days, I'm still always having to dash to the toilet countless times a day (waterworks) now I'm having problems falling asleep at night time but could sleep all day 
The only massive difference has been my increased libido but even that isn't as good as it has been   
3 months into starting treatment I did start to feel different, good and with the libido increase hubby was also happy  I thought/hoped that things would get better and better and that I'd found the cause of my problems, I was optimistic. 2/3 months after that I noticed that my anxiety and low mood was returning as were the aches/pains and constant headaches. My specialist isn't the easiest person to talk to or get hold of but assures me I need to continue as it will help my mood and energy, he has also suggested that I come off my AD's 
I'm just so confused and don't know what to do for the best? Should I continue with the BHRT even if it's just for the libido? Try a different form? or try a different AD although I think I've tried most 

[GeordieGirl]

Have you tried altering your dose at all?  Which BHRT are you on?

I use Estrogel and Utrogestan. The Estrogel dose my Meno Doc recommended was too high for me (2-4 pumps per day) and I feel much happier with only one. Fortunately it's easy to do this with the gel. I still have sore breasts occasionally so may see if I can cut this down a little further.

Worth a try?

GG  x

[Sarai]

Can I ask what is BHRT?
I have never had HRT but have many friends who have and most of them used the words' I was on it but came off when I realised it was doing nothing for me'.
I guess it can come to a point where it is not longer necessary or no longer works. Unfortunately as we know when we had full use of our hormones our mood could still fall and joints could still ache.
I wonder is it possible to get another specialist who you do feel comfortable with?
what i would say, having been a person who once tried to get off ADs, only do it with your doctors supervision and very very slowly. In fact make it take a lot longer than you GP says, because if your mood is low now it will get worse coming off too fast.
I took 9 months but sopped the last 25mg too fast and crashed, I last 6 months without, it was hell and I had to go back on and I suspect always will be.
I wish you luck.

[peegeetip]

Hi

sorry for the initial question but how long did you wait into peri or meno before going on HRT options?

The AD's will supress your libido.
There might have been a bit of a boost as you initially say but the AD's would flatten that out.

Only solution would be to go the route your specialist is asking you to and do without them.

This might be a long road as most AD's (no matter what people say) are difficult to come off of.
You might need to taper them down over a short or longer period of time (6 weeks +).

In terms of the BHRT, not sure on what your on exactly but it might just not be hitting the spot.
For example some people dont hit it off with patches and their absorption might not be great enough.
Others don't follow the exacting rules on gels, which will also no be great for you.
Tablet route is often one of the easiest to get right and stabilize things with. Once your there then you can introduce other things to help you along or tweak what your doing.

Hope you get better soon. But please don't just stop your AD's or BHRT, think carefully first and do things slowly slowly
 

[Limpy]

Can I ask what is BHRT?

"Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (BHRT), also known as bioidentical hormone therapy or natural hormone therapy, is a poorly defined term referring to the use of hormones that are identical, on a molecular level, with endogenous hormones in hormone replacement therapy"

[Sunnydays]

Apologies for using your thread for this Estelle( and I do hope you find a solution very soon) this is just a general comment to all but I too wondered what bhrt was so thanks Limpy for this. I don't want to receive a backlash but I'm surprised there seems to be this sub division for a certain type of hrt. Doesn't this have the potential for confusion? I know we have to be positive with the regime that suits us as individuals (non hrt/ hrt etc) but sometimes it feels hard when separating out to bhrt  suggests other hrt is not natural. If you look on Dr Curries list Tibolone is listed separately to other hrt but when I read up on it, it's still hrt. Sorry rant over! I'm a reluctant hrt user and I suppose I just feel frustrated that the distinction suggests not natural.

[Annie0710]

Oh Estelle I do feel for you

16 years ago aged 32 I had a hysterectomy and within 6 months I had mrnopsuse symptoms, bloods revealed ovaries weren't working , the first try of hrt (pill form) sorted me 200% within a week and I have been on them since and in the 13 years never ever thought about hormones until 3 years ago when I started meno symptoms again ! They reckon i am having a 2nd menopsuse and it hits hard and because I'm already on hrt there's nothing I can do :-(

I totally know how you're feeling, I'm stuck not knowing which way to turn, every part of my body hurts and headaches which not long ago would go with painkillers are now affecting my days

I hope you find a solution


Annie xx

[Dancinggirl]

Sunnydays - I do understand what you are trying to say - it is very difficult when many posts talk about bio/body identical HRT (BHRT). In fact most HRTs now contain bio identical oestrogen and it's just the progesterone that is often not bio identical. Femoston can be a good compromise as the progesterone is kinder.  However, Utrogestan which is bio identical progesterone doesn't suit everyone and is often difficult to get from the GP (many don't know about this) - it can have quite a sedative effect.
Tibolone is actually considered quite breast friendly and when I tried it I found it quite good but it made my acne worse. I'm 59 and consider using HRT very much a compromise - life is better with HRT but I really wish I didn't need it.

Annie0710 - I think you need a full review of what you need - you are still young and need to maintain your oestrogen - perhaps up the dose or switch to patches or gel which may be more effective?  Also look at diet and exercise to help with aching joints etc. - I do find I get fewer headaches when I do lots of brisk walks and yoga. I've recently increased my Omega 3 intake and that has really helped my aching joints.
DG x

[Sunnydays]

Thanks DG, appreciated. I've heard the term kinder referred to the progesterone in Femoston before. Does this tend to mean that it has fewer everyday side effects than, for example the one I am taking in Everol conti, or does it mean it's not so bad for you health wise in the long term? I'm pleased to say that I seem to be settling down well with Everol but I wouldn't like to think that it's worse for my health long term than the Femoston one. And yes, as you say, it would be great if we didn't need it. x

[Limpy]

Sunnydays - The progesterone in Evorel conti does seem to make many women feel unhappy and/or unsettled. I first encountered it when taking the Loestrin 20 BCP, which contains the same progesterone. I got very crabby, well, aggressive really. OH and I were at loggerheads for the first 12 weeks. However, I don't think it's bad for your health in the long term, once, you get over the initial mood issues.

[Annie0710]

Sunnydays - I do understand what you are trying to say - it is very difficult when many posts talk about bio/body identical HRT (BHRT). In fact most HRTs now contain bio identical oestrogen and it's just the progesterone that is often not bio identical. Femoston can be a good compromise as the progesterone is kinder.  However, Utrogestan which is bio identical progesterone doesn't suit everyone and is often difficult to get from the GP (many don't know about this) - it can have quite a sedative effect.
Tibolone is actually considered quite breast friendly and when I tried it I found it quite good but it made my acne worse. I'm 59 and consider using HRT very much a compromise - life is better with HRT but I really wish I didn't need it.

Annie0710 - I think you need a full review of what you need - you are still young and need to maintain your oestrogen - perhaps up the dose or switch to patches or gel which may be more effective?  Also look at diet and exercise to help with aching joints etc. - I do find I get fewer headaches when I do lots of brisk walks and yoga. I've recently increased my Omega 3 intake and that has really helped my aching joints.
DG x

Thank you GD, I tried the patch version of what I take and within hours I got the biggest migraine I've ever had (4 days and was sick eventually) so doc told me to remove on day 2.  Doc was at a loss how to help me so referred me to a gynae, who I felt didn't give a damn and had his speech ready for me, repeatedly telling me I'm getting older so feeling the way I do is to be expected !
I'm on max oestrogen already, have been for 16 years

I have crashing fatigue too, and my eye problems are getting worse, but I might try cycling, I can't seem to walk far lately because my legs ache so much and I get breathless


Annie xx

[GeordieGirl]

Apologies for using your thread for this Estelle( and I do hope you find a solution very soon) this is just a general comment to all but I too wondered what bhrt was so thanks Limpy for this. I don't want to receive a backlash but I'm surprised there seems to be this sub division for a certain type of hrt. Doesn't this have the potential for confusion? I know we have to be positive with the regime that suits us as individuals (non hrt/ hrt etc) but sometimes it feels hard when separating out to bhrt  suggests other hrt is not natural. If you look on Dr Curries list Tibolone is listed separately to other hrt but when I read up on it, it's still hrt. Sorry rant over! I'm a reluctant hrt user and I suppose I just feel frustrated that the distinction suggests not natural.

The distinction suggests HRT is different from BHRT because it essentially is in structure - in BHRT the molecules are the same structure as those our bodies produce, so they're 'natural' to us.

I'm a great proponent of natural products and have specifically sought BHRT for that reason so I'm personally quite glad that they've been separated. Taking horse pee hormones doesn't appeal to me for a number of reasons, not least because of the unfair treatment of the pregnant mares involved.

GG x

[Dancinggirl]

Sunnydays - There are different progesterones and some are more testosterone based and can bring more side effects like PMT - many omen still do extremely well on these as with any HRT regime it's trial and error.  It is believed that progesterones like Utrogestan, that are bio/body identical, bring fewer side effects and risks but any risk from any HRT only really kicks in after 60. 
Evorel conti does contain the the more testosterone based progesterone but if it suits you then that's great.  The down side of Utrogestan is the sedative effect and many women find this difficult to cope with when taken continuously. I use it sequentially and have a monthly bleed even though I am very post meno at 59.
If you feel good with your patch then I'd stick with it if I were you.  DG x

[Sunnydays]

Thanks again DG, appreciated. When you say a sedative effect, I understand it has to be taken at bed time so isn't this positive ie helping to sleep at night? I agree that if I;ve found one that suits me, best to stick however I have read some of the reports about breast cancer, specifically relating to the synthetic progesterones. A UK report in 2011 specifically highlights the greater risks of this type in my patch. Femoston has the 'better' progesterone but it's only in tablet form so no good for headaches, plus of course, they transdermal patches reduce clots and strokes! Aagh what a minefield this all is. Even more reason to support each other!

[GeordieGirl]

Thanks again DG, appreciated. When you say a sedative effect, I understand it has to be taken at bed time so isn't this positive ie helping to sleep at night? I agree that if I;ve found one that suits me, best to stick however I have read some of the reports about breast cancer, specifically relating to the synthetic progesterones. A UK report in 2011 specifically highlights the greater risks of this type in my patch. Femoston has the 'better' progesterone but it's only in tablet form so no good for headaches, plus of course, they transdermal patches reduce clots and strokes! Aagh what a minefield this all is. Even more reason to support each other!

Cancer Research UK released results of a study that showed that progesterone slows the growth of cancer tumours in 50% of cases. (I've posted elsewhere on this).

I found Utrogestan worked really well for me, my sleeping improved massively (I take it at bed time), no more UTIs, breast cysts have gone and my hair thinning improved.  I have had to reduce the oestrogen side of my prescription though to get it right....perhaps it's a matter of tweaking the HRT to see what feels right with fewer side effects?  I would consult your GP about this just to make sure there are no obstacles in doing so.

GG x