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Author Topic: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh  (Read 17903 times)

Dalhousie

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Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« on: June 09, 2014, 12:54:56 PM »

I'm taking Red Clover complex & have been since the onset of menopause hot flash symptoms just over a year ago.  The Red Clover worked well for about 8 months but is less effective now.  I wonder whether your body gets used to it after a while.  I was wondering whether to try Black Cohosh.  Is one of these things more popular on here than the other?  Or any other comments about it.

Thanks.
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CLKD

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2014, 02:06:36 PM »

Have you read the menus, left of screen?  Sometimes the body reacts to 'alternative' medicine but if it worked it would be on the NHS  ;)

Also, some alternatives need to be taken with care!

How are you otherwise?
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2014, 03:42:53 PM »

Hi Dalhousie
I'm afraid I've never found that any herbal remedies work. The Red Clover probably seemed to work at the start of your meno because you were still producing some oestrogen but once the oestrogen levels really dropped the meno symptoms emerged more strongly. As CLKD says, if these remedies worked then they would be prescribed on the NHS. I think these remedies seem to work for those lucky women who don't actually get many meno symptoms.
AS CLKD has said, do be careful about herbal or any alternative remedy as they can have side effects and negative interactions.
Unless there are good reasons why you can't have HRT then HRT is the only true NATURAL way to control meno symptoms. Taking HRT is a very personal decision and will depend on how badly the symptoms are effecting your life.
I personally think a good diet with some extra Omaga 3 oils and possibly a good multi vitamin is the best way to go if you want to ride the meno storm.  If you can pace yourself, avoid stress, eat well and take lots of brisk walks then this will probably do more to control your symptoms than any remedies. You may be lucky and find your meno symptoms settle down quite quickly over the next year or two.
I wouldn't spend too much on remedies - perhaps save your money and take a holiday?
DG x
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Hurdity

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2014, 03:48:55 PM »

Hi Dalhousie

Thereis information on Black Cohosh on this site including summaries of studies:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/oestrogens.php

A study in 2006 showed no effect on hot flushes
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/newsitem.php?recordID=39

and another in 2009 including black cohosh or red clover - also showing no or minimal effect:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/newsitem.php?recordID=85

There have been safety concerns re the use of Black Cohosh long term and possible effect on the liver which is discussed in the link above on this site. It used to be recommended not to take for longer than 6 months.

I used it while in peri-menopause - and I thought it worked for me initially - but after a while it didn't. The reason for this is probably that my body's own oestrogen increased ( as I was in peri) so the flushes stopped - I thought it was the Cohosh but it wasn't. Once my oestrogen had dropped for longer, and permanently - the flushes came back and stayed there until I replaced the oestrogen as HRT. I ended up throwing away most of a very expensive pot of the capsules!

Evidence gained so far shows that any effect therefore is either due to placebo, or due to the body's pown fluctuations.

Many products are marketed and sold especially during peri-menopause - and I would so if they are harmless and cheap then no problem - but not to be under any illusion about their objective effectiveness!!

Hope that doesn't sound too depressing - but you did ask!

Hurdity x
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CLKD

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2014, 08:37:39 PM »

 :thankyou:  Hurdity.  I have been lucky so far.  Various parts of me itched, i.e. insteps after a bath as well as down my back ...... this went after 2/3 years.  No hot flushes thank goodness apart from at the same time as my back itched ........

Until the razor blades up the vagina episode 12 months ago I was getting along quite OK ........ so had to seek advice and the GP was good at prescribing something that eased symptoms.  PHEW!  It is Trial and Error .........
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Dalhousie

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2014, 06:14:56 PM »

Hurdity - thanks for the links  I'm starting to navigate my way round this site a bit better now.  I can't find any information to the contrary but I presume it's all right to take Red Clover longer term.  I've been on it a year now.  I think red clover does do something despite the research. 

I started off taking sage & that did zero.  After a while I took red clover & the flushes calmed down.  I stopped taking it & they came back.  I restarted the red clover & they calmed down again but they aren't quite as effective now.
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CLKD

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2014, 07:47:48 PM »

Your body maybe producing more hot flushes?  therefore red clover won't be able to keep up.
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 08:19:52 AM »

Hi vitanana and welcome to MM
There have been a number of studies around the use of Red Clover and it possibly can help to a small degree especially in the early stages of peri meno.  However, I have heard that is not safe for women who have had breast cancer to use Red Clover because of it's estrogenic effect.  Just because something is deemed 'natural' or from natural sources doesn't mean they are safe so advice from a professional is important.
Unfortunately we all experience the meno differently and the benefits of any treatment will vary greatly as well.  I am in my late 50s and when I had a break from HRT for a year I did try quite big doses of Red Clover which didn't have any effect. Most HRT preparations contain 'natural oestrogen these days so are identical to what we produce in our own bodies.  There is even a bio identical progesterone called Utrogestan which is becoming more widely used and considered safer. Do read up all the info on this site and keep posting.  WE love in depth discussions and sharing al thoughts and experiences.  DG x
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Sunnydays

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2015, 09:11:02 AM »

Hi can I add my bit here. I didn't know anything about the peri menopause - I didn't know why I was getting awful headaches before periods and various other changes. When my periods stopped my doctor simply said how good it was that I wouldn't get periods anymore. Haha if only I knew  it isn't always as simple as that!   I tried the lady care magnet and multi vitamins. I'm not so sure the magnet helped but in my own mind the vitamins helped support my store of hormones and I was ticking over sufficiently well which was surprising as I had tremendous family stress and close bereavement at the time.  The main thing that was declining rapidly was 'down below'! Last October however I think my old hormones sighed their last breathe as the change that came over me was awful. The sweats intensified sleep was non existent etc. it was clear to me that Things to balance my hormones wasn't enough - they actually needed replacing!

Sorry rather a ramble but I wanted to get across that for me, I would try all the different alternatives to start with and be prepared to 'lose ' the money if they didn't work. I don't believe that the NHS can provide every type of medecine/remedy that's out there and just because the NHS don't provide it doesn't mean it doesn't work. There are meds on the NHS that stop working after a while. As DG says a good diet and exercise, eg brisk walking, are good to do and I believe  are a medecine in themselves!

I've had NHS meno support for 7 weeks or so now  and it has made a great difference to me but I don't like taking it and so I keep an eye out for alternatives that I can change to when the time is right for me. Just like some of the nasty side effects of some NHS medicines so we have to be cautious about side effects non NHS options.  Hey, we have to be cautious about everything in reality! By the way I have 2 close friends for whom the meno has been liberating, symptoms nearly non existent and not a single supplement in sight! They both exercise a lot. Another friend was knocked for six by the meno and could only survive with NHS products  Just shows how different we all are.

Keep up the posts on these alternatives please! I'm personally especially keen for post meno experiences with them. Thank you
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CLKD

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2015, 01:44:36 PM »

"NHS meno support for 7 weeks .. "  :-\  "but I don't like taking it "  - what did I miss  ;D
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2015, 03:56:02 PM »

vitanana - are you from a company promoting Red Clover supplements? Just look at eh site and it seems to be selling ReD Clover!!!??? If you aren't selling anything that's fine but we are not allowed to promote products on the forum.  DG
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honeybun

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2015, 06:36:07 PM »

Oh if she is that's a good one... ;D.

Just had a look at the link and previous posts.....yep sneaky without a doubt  ::)


Maybe ask Emma.


Honeyb
X
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CLKD

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2015, 07:12:53 PM »

Did so - gone?
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Sunnydays

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2015, 08:47:23 AM »

Hi CLKD
 I'm conscious that posts on supplements can take an hrt route and so was trying to avoid reference to the words hrt but obviously didn't do a very good job on it! I wanted to get across my very positive thoughts on supplements/alternatives etc, but at post meno stage I just haven't found anything that works for me.
Well done on spotting the commercial post- it went straight over my head.
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Red Clover Complex or Black Cohosh
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2015, 11:17:13 AM »

The best alternatives to HRT I have found involve adjustments to lifestyle e.g.
Good simple diet. Avoid alcohol, coffee, tea or anything that can trigger a flush e.g. spicy food.
Plenty of rest.
Long brisk walks.
Regular Mindful Meditation.
Avoid any stress where possible. Keep life simple.
Stay indoors on hot days in summer  - only go out early morning and late evening.
Avoid hot places like shops, restaurants etc. - exception to this rule is supermarkets as they are usually air conditioned these days and standing by the freezer section can be bliss.
Only drive the car when feeling fully alert - lack of sleep can mean your reactions are slow.
Make sure the 'air con' in the car is working well.
Ultra light duvet or cotton throw used with light cotton sheets.
A Chillow or hot water bottle filled with icy water near head or feet can help cool you down after a night sweat.
Wear thin layers in natural fibres that you can shed when needed.
Lots of Omega 3 oils do seem to reduce the joint pains.
Invest in unscented body lotion that can be applied liberally to reduce itching and dryness.


Ater a year of practising these strategies I did give in and went back on Systemic HRT. During this year I had been using local oestrogen to try and keep the horrible burning urethra under control but this wasn't working that well. I was finding it really difficult to do my part time job because I was so tired all the time. I also suffered with horrible headaches most weeks so ended up taking too many pain killers. HRT is a compromise for me - I would rather not be using it. My meno symptoms are really life limiting so I dread being without HRT.  DG x







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