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[CLKD]

   Woman, 92, dies after Northampton General Hospital loses dentures   

What happened to 'duty of care'  : this lady was moved from ward to ward and somehow items went missing ....... but surely that is not an excuse for not feeding anyone 

[Krystal]

Nothing seems to have changed regarding the feeding of patients. Prepacked sandwiches and plastic cups are no use to those with poor or limited hand movement, let alone putting these items out of reach. There have been many NHS initiatives over the years to improve patient nutrition and maintain the correct calorific intake whilst in hospital but they all seem to fall by the wayside when this is no longer the focus of attention. It is really hard for relatives who care about their loved ones and I have witnessed relatives bringing in their own food and feeding the patients themselves. However you cannot make someone eat if they do not want to, there has to be the will to do so by the patient. Looking and caring for elderly relatives is hard and always will be if you care.

[Pennyfarthing]

Did anybody see 2 part Panorama Crisis in Care.   Very sad how some people are really struggling at home to get help.  I just watched Part 2 which I recorded and it highlighted people having to sell their homes to pay their care home fees and how social services pay care homes about £500 a week for people with no assets but people like my Mum who had to sell her house (ex council so definitely not a mansion) are being charged £800 -£1000 a week for the same care and are subsidising others!  Even the woman from social services said it wasn't fair but said “what else can we do.”

I have a few friends who are older than me and they are already thinking about what's going to happen to them when they need care. 

[Krystal]

The two tier costs for a care home were like that when my mum required full time care and that was over ten years ago. Every home we went to visit had this system. My mums bungalow had to be sold to pay for her care but I did not begrudge one penny spent on her care. It was a lovely home where the care home staff cared. The owners of the home were a Greek family who believed all people were entitled to be cared for as if they were family members, it was just the two tier fee system that annoyed me. Having said that my health improved one I knew Mum was being looked after so well and that she was happy.

[CLKD]

Sadly Councils under-cut many Care Homes by £ousands a year ........ so if it wasn't for people paying more then council funded clients simply wouldn't get the care they deserve. 

This particular case: the lady was moved Wards at least 3 times and several belongings went missing, including her teeth and Pension book.  That is no excuse to not provide her with a pureed meal and assist in feeding her  .  Heads should roll, this is pure neglect.  How can anyone in charge of a Ward not notice that those under their Care  are starving and dehydrated. 

When Dad was in hospital in 2004/6 they had 'protected meal times'.  Not when I was there, I fed a man in the next bed who cried because his lunch time food tray had been placed out of his reach for 3 days  and removed without anyone noticing  that he hadn't eaten anything: "not hungry today then?".  The Nurse came towards me and I said "If you tell me to leave I will phone my contact at the Daily Telegraph". 

Some Hospitals are so short of staff that they encourage relatives to feed patients.  This isn't a 3rd World Country 

[Foxylady]

We had recent experience of hospital and rehab (post stroke), care def far below standard it should be, yes staffing is a major issue & I know how much it can impact on the care you give & morale when you feel you haven't provided the care & service you would want to give. However, there is no excuse for vulnerable people being malnourished & dehydrated that are being 'cared for' whether in NHS or privately. It's a disgraceful reflection of government priorities generally.

[CLKD]

This particular case is a bad reflextion of lack of 'care' in this particular hospital.  Where was the Ward Sister/Staff Nurse?  Why didn't the Chef query why this patient wasn't being fed.  Where was the Social Worker .......... heads should roll. 

[Pennyfarthing]

Sadly Councils under-cut many Care Homes by £ousands a year ........ so if it wasn't for people paying more then council funded clients simply wouldn't get the care they deserve. 

This particular case: the lady was moved Wards at least 3 times and several belongings went missing, including her teeth and Pension book.  That is no excuse to not provide her with a pureed meal and assist in feeding her  .  Heads should roll, this is pure neglect.  How can anyone in charge of a Ward not notice that those under their Care  are starving and dehydrated. 

When Dad was in hospital in 2004/6 they had 'protected meal times'.  Not when I was there, I fed a man in the next bed who cried because his lunch time food tray had been placed out of his reach for 3 days  and removed without anyone noticing  that he hadn't eaten anything: "not hungry today then?".  The Nurse came towards me and I said "If you tell me to leave I will phone my contact at the Daily Telegraph". 

Some Hospitals are so short of staff that they encourage relatives to feed patients.  This isn't a 3rd World Country 

“So if it wasn't for people paying more then council funded clients wouldn't get the care they deserve.”

So you think it's OK for SOME people to pick up the tab for other people? 
These funded people could be people who have never had much but they could equally be people who have spent all their money on drinking, smoking, gambling etc.

It would be like you being told you will only get, say,  £20 a week state pension because you are not as poor as some other people.  I'm sure that wouldn't go down well. 

One of the Care Team Managers at Mum's home told me that she has done an Equity Release plan now (she's early 60's.) because she has seen this happen to so many elderly people and she thinks it is grossly unfair.  She has given her two daughters large cash sums to improve their homes and have holidays and she and her hubby go on several luxury holidays each year now.  her daughters are happy with the situation and she says there is no way she is picking up the tab for other peoples care after she has worked so hard all her life.  She actually cried when we discussed my Mum and how she spent all her life cleaning and scrubbing for people, never having holidays and never getting any benefits in her life.  She said that people assume self funders are wealthy people and in many cases they definitely are not.

[CLKD]

It's the way it is.  I believe that those above a certain threshold should be in a different care home to those council funded.  Certainly there should be a level playing field so that there are nurses and physios. in all establishments so that those that require such care get it without having to move or pay 'extra'.

Care should be care regardless.  But the Government of the Day didn't see a) how much money saving was due to families looking after relatives at home, therefore not costing the NHS hospital beds etc. and b) what the level of care would become, c) what care people actually want - rather than being shoved into 3/4 bedded rooms with shared bathroom we need space to ourselves with en-suite. 

Of course, those 'in charge' will be able to fund totally private facilities.

[Pennyfarthing]

It's the way it is.  I believe that those above a certain threshold should be in a different care home to those council funded.  Certainly there should be a level playing field so that there are nurses and physios. in all establishments so that those that require such care get it without having to move or pay 'extra'.

Care should be care regardless.  But the Government of the Day didn't see a) how much money saving was due to families looking after relatives at home, therefore not costing the NHS hospital beds etc. and b) what the level of care would become, c) what care people actually want - rather than being shoved into 3/4 bedded rooms with shared bathroom we need space to ourselves with en-suite. 

Of course, those 'in charge' will be able to fund totally private facilities.

That would never work.  Residential  and Nursing Homes are quite different. Only Nursing homes have qualified nurses.

I don't understand your last sentence at all.

You never said whether you would be OK with giving most of your pension to other people! 

[CLKD]

In the Government of the day - they won't have these worries.  So they don't have to consider taking elderly and end of life care seriously 

I can't get worried about it PF.  It's how it is in the UK.  At least I don't have to consider having mum under my roof  as many European countries do .........

Residential and Nursing Care should be one and the same so that as people age and need more attention, they don't have to move 'homes'.  In 1 place I visited a few years ago they had residential care downstairs, nursing care up which seemed, on an issue of safety, up-side down to me: imagine a fire 

[Pennyfarthing]

In the Government of the day - they won't have these worries.  So they don't have to consider taking elderly and end of life care seriously 

I can't get worried about it PF.  It's how it is in the UK.  At least I don't have to consider having mum under my roof  as many European countries do .........

Residential and Nursing Care should be one and the same so that as people age and need more attention, they don't have to move 'homes'.  In 1 place I visited a few years ago they had residential care downstairs, nursing care up which seemed, on an issue of safety, up-side down to me: imagine a fire 

You still haven't answered the question 

[Sparrow]

The whole system is not user friendly. If you don't know what you are about and how the payment system is structured it can cost more than it should.  We challenged the nursing care aspect for my late FIL, as he obviously was getting nursing care but it was not reflected in the cost.  Therefore he was paying too much as nursing care is not chargeable.  Amazingly, after his death, the appeal was upheld, and a considerable amount of money was refunded. If a family member had not had the time, patience and knowledge to pursue this, it would have been lost money.

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

Are there any council run care/ nursing homes anymore? Certainly we never found any when we were looking for MIL.

All the places we looked at were privately run meaning they were businesses required to make a profit or close down. The 'care' of the elderly is not the priority in my opinion.

Take care ladies.

K.

[Katejo]

Sadly Councils under-cut many Care Homes by £ousands a year ........ so if it wasn't for people paying more then council funded clients simply wouldn't get the care they deserve. 

This particular case: the lady was moved Wards at least 3 times and several belongings went missing, including her teeth and Pension book.  That is no excuse to not provide her with a pureed meal and assist in feeding her  .  Heads should roll, this is pure neglect.  How can anyone in charge of a Ward not notice that those under their Care  are starving and dehydrated. 

When Dad was in hospital in 2004/6 they had 'protected meal times'.  Not when I was there, I fed a man in the next bed who cried because his lunch time food tray had been placed out of his reach for 3 days  and removed without anyone noticing  that he hadn't eaten anything: "not hungry today then?".  The Nurse came towards me and I said "If you tell me to leave I will phone my contact at the Daily Telegraph". 

Some Hospitals are so short of staff that they encourage relatives to feed patients.  This isn't a 3rd World Country 

“So if it wasn't for people paying more then council funded clients wouldn't get the care they deserve.”

So you think it's OK for SOME people to pick up the tab for other people? 
These funded people could be people who have never had much but they could equally be people who have spent all their money on drinking, smoking, gambling etc.

It would be like you being told you will only get, say,  £20 a week state pension because you are not as poor as some other people.  I'm sure that wouldn't go down well. 

One of the Care Team Managers at Mum's home told me that she has done an Equity Release plan now (she's early 60's.) because she has seen this happen to so many elderly people and she thinks it is grossly unfair.  She has given her two daughters large cash sums to improve their homes and have holidays and she and her hubby go on several luxury holidays each year now.  her daughters are happy with the situation and she says there is no way she is picking up the tab for other peoples care after she has worked so hard all her life.  She actually cried when we discussed my Mum and how she spent all her life cleaning and scrubbing for people, never having holidays and never getting any benefits in her life.  She said that people assume self funders are wealthy people and in many cases they definitely are not.

Inclined to agree on this point. Sometime ago I watched a tv programme about care in which 2 people living in the same care home were paying substantially different amounts. It led me to make the following  comparison. Imagine 2 people who have worked all their lives on an adequate public sector salary but were never well off. Both have managed to buy their own flat/house before the prices shot up but the similarity ends there. Number 1 sacrifices extra holidays and expensive clothes to pay into their work pension fund and pay off their mortgage as quickly as possible so has savings by retirement. The other opts for interest only mortgage and runs up credit card bills for expensive purchases which are still outstanding when they become ill and dependent. On retirement, the 2nd has no savings at all while the first has the value of their property and modest savings.
Yhy should the 2nd pay much more for the same services?