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[dangermouse]

10 years ago my peri hell started with very severe nausea from morning to night. 5 years after that my periods stopped (bar a short bleed a year later after first Covid jab), 5 years after that is now and I have had two 3 days of early morning nausea 28 days apart - after having none for a few years.

As we know hormones are cyclical, so I am now hoping I am coming to the end of the oestrogen spikes and that this nausea is a sign of something changing again. It could be that I am about to come through the other side of hormonal volatility, when hormones settle into a low, constant state.

I also just came across this:
“It is now well established that progesterone fails to be produced at the onset of menopause (the first missed period, increased loss of calcium, symptoms such as hot flashes, etc.), and that estrogen continues to be produced at monthly intervals for about four years.”
Ray Peat

We often assume that the volatility is over after our last period but I think there are many on here who it, clearly, carries on for after, and/or, there’s a shift 4-5 years after, with many on HRT needing to change their regime.

Just thought this may help those puzzled by it all - and to give some hope that the rollercoaster may, in fact, come to an end!

[bombsh3ll]

Thanks for sharing your experience and I hope you are able to find some peace. I believe only a minority of women's experiences correspond to the textbook description in this area.

I would just like more women to know that perimenopause can be completely bypassed by using the combined oral contraceptive pill taken continuously ie active pills only without any breaks.

This is my game plan and I intend to never experience any peri/menopause symptoms, switching seamlessly to MHT in my early to mid 50s when menopause can be reasonably assumed.

[dangermouse]

Thanks. Yes, for me, it was the combined pill that initially stopped my all day nausea. I realised after being in A&E for yet another drip (as could not hold any food down) that the worst episodes were when I was on my period. Had no idea it was hormones up to that penny dropping, as all the docs said I was too young at 45 and that it was stomach ulcers - but had to wait for 6m for an endoscopy to prove otherwise!

Anyway, it took a week for the pill to kick in and I could finally eat again. Sadly, this didn’t last as, after a few months, the nausea kept breaking through, even though I had no gaps. My oestrogen surges were just too off the scale. I am an extreme case though.

[CrispyChick]

And I am like you Dangermouse. 

I'm really glad you might now be stabalising. How did you pass through menopause? On nothing??

Still stuck in horrific peri hell here! And I too, break through the pill. My hunch is,nice you're starting it to treat the peri symptoms - it's too late.

Now, let me hear again though - you take no HRT and suffer with no low E symptoms??? Because that's real hope after the peri from hell. 

[dangermouse]

My only relief is ever with progesterone cream but after a few weeks I also get breakthrough issues. Estradiol is like poison to me, even tiny amounts. Chat GPT seems to think I have cortisol dis-regulation closely tied to my oestrogen levels.

I don’t have any low oestrogen symptoms, apart from osteoarthritis in my fingers but I’ve had that for about 20 years. I did get hot flushes which went away and now am getting again, but they always make me feel good, in a oestrogen falling relief way! The only time I have experienced bladder incontinence is when I have tried oestrogen in some form.

My oestrogen blood levels are low but most of our oestrogen is stored in our tissue so it doesn’t represent total oestrogen in my body and certainly not how I feel. Also to add, I was probably never measured when having an oestrogen spike. The suddenness is what is so debilitating.

I am just so glad there is a clear cycle still going on that I can now keep track of as, without a bleed, you are clueless of where you are and it is meant to adhere to a strict 28 day one post meno. I can now see a clear Day 1 when I get a big relief and then a clear mid-cycle when I have stronger oestrogen spikes. Looking back they all make sense for the last few months when I’ve had clear signs which I can now prepare for.

I look forward to the day when I can tell you it’s all over! Yes, low oestrogen will then be an issue (although my mum has never had any symptoms) but that is so much easier to manage.

[CrispyChick]

Wow. So interesting DM.

And the fact your mum never had low E symptoms must be indicative you'll be similar.

It's all so bizarre. So basically you still a really struggle with spiking E, despite being well post meno?

What are your E blood levels?

See. I'm not sure I'm the same. Both E and P trigger awful illness in me. My own, extra added or removed. Currently now very very ill after stopping the HRT after 4 weeks, which itself made me very very ill.

But I also now get low E symptoms. When on nothing - at certain times of the month and now, on cerazette, fairly constant. The hot flushes and night sweats I can just about live with. But it was agonising pain and fatigue that made me try hrt. And it worked. So my low E seems to be real.

All such a mess.

I'm glad you're now able to recognise your ongoing cycle. And I hope that, yes, it's genuinely about to come to an end.

What an absolute hellish time of life for some of us. 

[dangermouse]

I haven’t had a blood test since 2021 when oestrogen was 44 pmol. The snapshot really means nothing though.

I do think that we should use more maths when it comes to our daily and monthly hormone cycles, as they are a numbers game influenced by the moon’s tidal drag on the fluids in the body. For example, cortisol peaks at 5am and 5pm (GMT and gradually shifts 5 mins a month when clocks go forward) which most of us feel (men too) and we obviously have the menstrual cycles.

I suspect that when periods stop that is the middle of the turbulence and, depending on how many years you had problems before that, you may get that number again. I have friends who only had 6 months of issues either side, for example and others a few years.

Was it only after chemical menopause that you experienced the joint pain? I think you did have periods of feeling good on progesterone cream prior to all of that.