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[Pippa52]

Hi Everyone - I just wondered if anyone had any updates as to when Estradot patches will be available again? Also some advice please.  I have been on Estradot patches - 37.5 plus half a estradot 37.5 patch changed every other day.  Over the last few months have noticed various symptoms - i change the patches in the evening and on that night i wake up with really bad anxiety/panic symptoms plus a racing heart and also I have been getting bloating in my stomach and insomnia.  The second day is calmer and the second night less panic etc.  Have logged this in my diary and its a definite pattern now and although I have been on this dose for 2 years now I just wonder if I need to lower the dose.  No hot flushes or signs of too low a dose.  Am thinking of going down to a 50 patch.  Just wondered if anyone else had a similar experience of having to lower the dose after 2 years of being stable?  Thanks so much for any help/info/advice.  I do have enough patches for now but would be keen to know the time scale of Estradot coming back as had enough trouble levelling out after all the changing about with the shortages last time so not keen to change type of patch if at all avoidable.  xx

[joziel]

No one knows when Estradots will be available again because the shortage is supposed to continue for another year at least. At the moment there isn't even an SSP on the 37.5s, so they are supposed to be available - but they aren't. Maybe because everyone who can't get the other strengths is switching to 37.5s. (That's what I've been doing.)

Before reducing your dose, I would firstly try putting the patch on in the mornings so that the estrogen doesn't hit you at night. And then I would get bloods done not on the patch change day itself but the next day. The symptoms you describe there are really my symptoms when my dose is too LOW and the last thing you want, is to go the wrong direction. As your ovaries increasingly fail and you get deeper into post-meno, you often need a higher dose (not lower).

I'm not sure why you are changing them 'every other day' either, as they are supposed to be changed twice a week.....?

[Pippa52]

Hi Joziel - many thanks for your reply. Not great news about the Estradot - they seem to become not available quite a lot unfortunately.  I was advised my my Meno consultant  to change my patches every 2 days as I seem to be a fast absorber and they wear out if I leave them for 3/4 days unfortunately.  I have swopped to putting them on in the morning as from today thanks for the advice Will organise a blood test on second day too. x

[joziel]

It might be that you are getting a hit of estrogen all at once from the patch. I've heard this before, that the patches can wear off a lot for some women towards the end. It might be worth considering a switch to gel, especially given the Estradot situation. 2 pumps of gel = 50 patch and 3 pumps = 75.

[Gnatty]

Hi Pippa, maybe another option would be to change the site of your patch.
Have I remembered correctly you are like me no ovaries? It can be hard to get the balance exactly right. If I can't fall asleep then for me that's a sign I am too high on either oestrogen or testosterone, whereas if I wake up a lot that's not enough! If I get a lot of the munchies again that's too much. Sometimes it's a trade off between which symptom you want to control most. So I will always prioritise sleep over size of tummy!
Funnily enough I have recently changed to patches because I finally got fed up of applying gel. So far so good... I am 59 and I am on 100 Evorel. I suspect ideally I would be best somewhere between 75 and 100. I am still experimenting with patch location at the moment as they are quite large and I am not so it's hard finding a flat surface. Plus apparently buttocks absorb best but I have trouble seeing them to apply it nicely.

[joziel]

Gnatty, I also am not large and I will need 3x 100 Evorels if I switch to them    Wish me luck!

[Pippa52]

Joziel, thaks so much for your reply... I was on Oestrogel for many years which worked great until after the shortages - I simply did not absorb it at all  when it became available again and my blood levels came back incredibly low in fact the Meno consult said she didn't think I was absorbing it at all plus I felt dreadful too. I don't know whether they changed the Oestrogel make up/strength or what but sadly it ceased to work for me. Estradot has been really good for me until recently.  I have given in and arranged for a consult with the meno consultant for some advice.  I do have enough Estradot for 3 months as was given a script just before it went out of stock so am unwilling at this stage to swop to anything else and am going to ask it I can eeeek them out to every 3 days rather than 2 and see how that does plus it will cut down on what I am using. x

[Pippa52]

Gnatty - yes you are so right it is a roller coaster as to which symptom to prioritise - I would like to stop the anxiety/adrenaline rushes the most as I really hate them.  Good idea about maybe trying to change the site.  At the moment I put patches on my lower tummy but will maybe try thigh when due next change.  Yes you are right (what a superb memory!!) I don't have ovaries or a womb.  Hope so much the patches continue to work well for you.  For me personally they seem to work the best out of gels or sprays but Evorel when I tried tjhem gave me really bad migraines but its such an individual thing as to which one suits different people x

[joziel]

I've had to bite the bullet and change to Evorel today    It looked like Pharmacy2U had 16 Estradot boxes in stock when I called them to find out - but after I placed the order and waited several days it turned out they didn't and I got an email saying this with a code to use in any pharmacy. Except no one has them. I called them again (ages on the phone) and they said one of their warehouses did have some and they would try to put the order through to there.... Several days go by and now I get another email saying it's out of stock and they can't fulfil. Tried calling a few local pharmacies but they are out of all Estradots... And I can't be doing this every month (my GP only gives us a month at time). It's taking me hours on the phone.

The problem is that I am in the middle of trying to figure out how much of this is thyroid and how much is HRT and hormones and it really doesn't help when I keep having to change products and can't get stable on anything. Why is women's health such a low priority?

Anyway, 3 giant Evorel patches, here we come....

[Gnatty]

Let me know where you put them!

[Pippa52]

Joziel…. honestly, my heart goes out to you really does we’ve been through all this chopping and changing before and it’s really not helpful having to do it. I so hope Evorel  work for you I truly do. Unfortunately, when I tried them, they gave me really really bad migraines but that being said my daughter is on them and they work perfectly for her so I hope they do for you too. I have my consultation with the meno consultant today. Quite honestly I’m feeling so unwell with whatever is causing the issues I have. Interestingly I changed putting on my patches to the morning. I put them on at 5:30 am this morning and by 10 o’clock was feeling absolutely dreadful with high anxiety, bloating, tummy pains, indigestion headache the lot.. so weird as have been on this dose for two years and it’s only over the last few months that things seem to have been deteriorating gradually. Have also been referred to a gastroenterologist next week but I’m keen to find out first the HRT element as it really does seem to correlate with a few hours after I put the patches on and yet the day after that is usually calmer … not perfect but calmer. Very loathe  to change as messing around with the dosage cause my heart problems last time and I ended up having to have a cardiac ablation last year for atrial fibrillation but as Estradot not available again probably won’t have a choice

[Gnatty]

Can you recall whether the heart problems were from reducing or increasing your dose? If you notice a difference soon after putting patch on it suggests one of two options. Either you are getting a sudden surge or a sudden drop. So say it was a sudden drop maybe you could counter that by leaving your old patch on for a few hours so that you are still getting some oestrogen from it to top up new patch until it kicks in fully. On the other hand if it's a surge I wonder whether if you cut a bit off the patch and see if a bit less works better. It's always trial and error unfortunately isn't it?

[Pippa52]

Hi Gnatty,  thanks so much for your reply.  Well I have just had my consultation with the Meno consultant and she is swopping me onto FemSeven Mono patches and also feels I need to drop the dose.  She thinks because I have lost some weight over the last year (about a stone)  that has more than likely affected the amount of oestrogen I need to be less.  I am very reticent about swapping patches but don't have a choice as Estradot looks to be out of the picture for a long time and to be honest it seems to keep happening that they go out of stock so maybe being on a more reliably available one will be good in the long run .  I did speak to her about the heart issues as well as am obviously very wary of kicking that off again but she said it is only a small drop in oestrogen (56 to 50) so it should be fine.  Fingers crossed. I hear you re leaving old patch on for a bit when replacing a new one which sounds a really good idea.  Thanks so much for your input x

[Pippa52]

joziel how are you getting on with the Evorel patches?  Hope so much they are working ok for you

[joziel]

It's a bit of a nightmare really, because I don't have them yet and am hoping I'm not going to run out of HRT at this rate. I called the GP on Weds and left a message, didn't hear anything, called on Thurs evening and was told to call back Friday morning. Call this morning (Friday) and was told it was all in the list of things the doctor was going to look at today. Haven't heard anything since. (Usually I get an email from Pharmacy2U when they get my prescription.)

Now they are closed for the weekend so I will call again on Monday. I think I have about 3 more patch changes left. I will extend them all to 4 days instead of one for 3 days and one for 4 days, as that will give me a few extra days. And will also call Newson Health on Monday if I don't get immediate joy from the GP, to see about buying some privately.

This is after X hours on hold to Pharmacy2U several times when it looked like they might get Estradots in. And calling around various local pharmacies.

I feel like I need a HRT secretary at this rate. To source my HRT each month