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[JinnyCat]

Hello,
I am new to this forum but it has been a huge eye opener, and frankly a relief to read the experiences of other ladies and know that i am not alone, nor going mad .

I am 47, perimenopausal, and on Oestrogel  4 pumps a day, and 200mg Utrogestan taken vaginally continuously. My periods are regular.
I have a history of painful periods starting when i was 13, to the point where i would vomit and pass out from the pain. The ONLY thing that had stopped the painful periods is going to x 2 Utrogestan, but i think it is making me feel awful generally.
Historically, i was given painkillers, or put on various pills for years and years for the painful periods. I suffered significant low mood during these times, which i am now fairly sure was down to the synthetic progesterone in the pill.
I also think i have for years suffered with (undiagnosed) PMDD.
I am now in perimenopause hell. I feel miserable, anxious, highly irritable, rage, overwhelmed, muscle pains, poor sleep, palpitations etc - you name it..... And that is with the HRT....
I don't feel my current HRT is suiting me, and in particular i think the Utrogestan is the main issue. Last month was hellish. I spent Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day crying on the bathroom floor. I have today had a follow up with my GP. She told me that it was just life, and Christmas time making me feel miserable, not the HRT. I asked for a blood test to check my hormone levels, because i have never had this before and it might be useful to know where i am lacking. I was told no, these aren't accurate, so no point. She suggested a mindfulness app, or CBT might help. I asked to swap to a different (body identical) progesterone. She said there weren't any. I highlighted i'd done some research, and found there was Lutigest, and Cyclogest. She hadn't heard of them and looked them up. Reluctantly agreed to give me Cyclogest 'if the Pharmacy can get it, because it's not a regular item'.... She ended the call telling me she had a good feeling about this....and thought the new progesterone would do the trick....!!. I had to suggest the progesterone, and the whole call felt like a battle....
I am so sorry for the long post, but i feel hopelessly lost. I have got to try the cyclogest and hope to goodness it makes me feel a little better, as life is just an existence at the moment..... does anyone out there have a similar experience?
Many thanks in advance.

[LittleClaire]

Hi JinnyCat,

Welcome to the forum. I couldn’t just read and run with your post I felt compelled to reply. Sorry to hear you have been feeling so terrible.

With regards to your severe symptoms on the current HRT you are on, could you try a different form altogether in terms of patches instead of the gel? I have too heard that certain types of progesterone can disagree badly with certain people and switching it around can help.

Your GP doesn’t sound very helpful or educated for that matter. When I went for my first HRT consultation it was mentioned about body identical progesterone but on my follow up where I was prescribed I was given Evorel Sequi patches. The first half of the cycle I feel great as it’s oestrogen only but the second half (conti) it’s similar to you with symptoms returning, and crying for no reason for days on end.

Hopefully the cyclogest works for you, I will do a bit of research myself into this so I know what to ask the doctor when I go back. Fingers crossed you start to feel better soon x

[JinnyCat]

Hi LittleClaire,
Thank you so much for your reply. I asked the GP if i could trt Sandrena gel, as i don't feel the Oestrogel is having any effect anymore, but she told me no as it wouldn't make any difference.
I've just picked up the Cyclogest prescription. I am really rather worried about starting it, because i've been off the Utrogestan for a week now and definitely feel less wound up/angry/overwhelmed. I'll see how it goes......

[Penguin]

Utroesgan made me feel terrible emotionally and had a cumulative effect over the two weeks I had to take it. I'd then get horrific anxiety and paranoia due to withdrawal when I stopped taking it.
I agree it doesn't sound like your doctor is very helpful, is there anyone else you can see at the practice? I really don't think she should be objecting to you giving another preparation a try, she does sound ill informed. It is clear from all the experiences shared on here that what suits one woman doesn't suit another.

[bombsh3ll]

There are so many alternatives to micronised progesterone, don't be afraid of trying something else just because it isn't "body identical".

The real world difference in any safety outcomes are minuscule and not worth compromising your quality of life for.

Many of the progestins can also get rid of bleeding altogether if you are still menstruating which micronised progesterone does not.

I'm on Zoely which has oral estradiol and nomegestrol acetate - I take this continuously and am completely bleed free and hormonally stable. Much better than seesawing up and down with progesterone and spending every 4th week bleeding!

[Ms_london76]

I take promterium a bio identical progesterone . It can be taken vaginal but I opt for oral on this one.

I am not on a cycle just take it every night. No side effects versus the non bio identical ones.

Prior to taking progesterone I was a walking basket case. I found my moods have stabilized using it. No anxiety or severe depressive episodes.

[Hurdity]

Hi Jinnycat

 

Sorry to hear about your peri woes.

I used Cyclogest many years ago, for several years when I started HRT - but was prescribed 400 mg ( ie two pessaries) for 11 days per 28 day cycle - though I was still late peri. Took this from around age 54 to 58. It used to give me migraines but mainly on withdrawal - understandable with such a high dose. I assume you will be prescribed 200 mg (higher doses are needed compared with utrogestan I think because it is a different preparation and hasn't been formulated for use as part of hRT though can be prescribed in this way off-licence)? it may be that as you are on 4 pumps of gel you may need a higher dose?

As bombshell says there are other options - including QLAIRA a contraceptive pill designed for peri-menopause which will suppress your cycle and is totally unlike the synthetic pills you will have taken in the past. The progestogen is dienogest - which I understand is one of the later synthetic progestogens so maybe better tolerated than those you tried before? The estrogen is a form of estradiol which is bio-identical.

Incidentally prometrium is the same as utrogestan and is not available in UK.

Hope the cyclogest works for you!

Hurdity x

[JinnyCat]

Utroesgan made me feel terrible emotionally and had a cumulative effect over the two weeks I had to take it. I'd then get horrific anxiety and paranoia due to withdrawal when I stopped taking it.
I agree it doesn't sound like your doctor is very helpful, is there anyone else you can see at the practice? I really don't think she should be objecting to you giving another preparation a try, she does sound ill informed. It is clear from all the experiences shared on here that what suits one woman doesn't suit another.

Thanks Penguin....that is exactly how Utrogestan made me feel, but i was on 200mg continuously, and for 7 months....i think it had just been building and building until at Christmas i felt in a black hole and so low i was despairing, it was utter misery. Literally a day or so after stopping the Utrogestan, i felt calmer and lighter. Ha....i have tried other Drs at the same practice, the last one told me upon leaving my appointment that i "shouldn't worry as my ovaries would be packing in soon anyone so that will solve everything......" 
It is thanks to reading other experiences on here that i have realised i am not alone, and this is actually a huge problem.....

[JinnyCat]

Thanks Bombsh3ll, Hurdity and Ms_London76 - i really appreciate you all taking the time to reply 🥰 x
Hurdity - i have since dropped down to x 2 pumps of Oestrogel, yet the Cyclogest prescription they have given me is for 400mg    - which seems a lot to me. The direction on the label says 'one 400mg pessary daily ( until we can get hold of 200mg supply)' which obviously doesn't make sense. I have queried this with the pharmacy via email (so i can get it in black and white!)but they only replied saying i have got to ring them on Monday to see when the 200mg stock will come in, they didn't respond and clarify dosage. So to be on the safe side i am just halving the pessary for now so i am only taking 200mg. No guidance at all!
Bombsh3ll and Hurdity - i have found by unpleasant experience that i absolutely cannot tolerate synthetic progesterone, my mood drops and i feel dreadful  :'(i tried Qlaira only as the same GP assured me that both the oestrogen and progesterone in it were body identical. It turned out after feeling suddenly very low, and looking up the make up of Qlaira, that it is a synthetic progesterone in it, which explained my mood 
Bombsh3ll - i have read about Zoely.....thank you.... i will see how i get on with this Cyclogest, but it sounds ideal as i would love to be bleed free and hormonally stable , i feel right now like i am never going to get there. It is like wading though treacle......
I am 3rd night in on Cyclogest now, and already i feel like that horrible feeling/irritation/anger/anxiety is starting to creep back but i need to persevere a little.  I am at a point where i am considering giving up on HRT altogether, but the 200mg of progesterone has been the only thing to stop my terribly painful periods up until now, and i'm worried they will come back and floor me if i stop it all.
Ladies.....i am coming back in the next life as a man, or a cat!!🤦🏻‍♀️🤣 

[Minnie Mouse]

Hello Jinnycat,
I don't have much to add, other than to sympathise, you're not alone 
I too have cycles of that horrible anxiety/anger/overwhelm that are quite debilitating.
It feels linked to Utrogestan, or some kind of fight between the HRT and a cycle that continues (even though I'm 55).
One day at a time...

[JinnyCat]

Hello Jinnycat,
I don't have much to add, other than to sympathise, you're not alone 
I too have cycles of that horrible anxiety/anger/overwhelm that are quite debilitating.
It feels linked to Utrogestan, or some kind of fight between the HRT and a cycle that continues (even though I'm 55).
One day at a time...

Hello MinnieMouse, and thank you for replying. You are right, it is utterly debillitating, and it feels like an existence, as there is no joy in anything when you feel like this. I do believe Utrogestan is a problem for a lot of us.....but why?? What is in it that is making so many women feel so terrible?
I have been asking for a hysterectomy since my 20s due to the excruciating period pain, but then medical professionals tell me that that won't solve anything, i'd have to have my ovaries removed too and then i will 'drop off a cliff' into menopause. I honestly don't know which was to turn for the best......

[Lavender Girl]

Hey Jinny, I wonder that too.. it was bad for me also.
I have Mirena now and I'm much better mood wise, though not completely ok, but better!
Just wish I could sleep.. the only good thing Utrogestan did for me!

Hope you find the right solution to help you xxx

Hello Jinnycat,
I don't have much to add, other than to sympathise, you're not alone 
I too have cycles of that horrible anxiety/anger/overwhelm that are quite debilitating.
It feels linked to Utrogestan, or some kind of fight between the HRT and a cycle that continues (even though I'm 55).
One day at a time...

Hello MinnieMouse, and thank you for replying. You are right, it is utterly debillitating, and it feels like an existence, as there is no joy in anything when you feel like this. I do believe Utrogestan is a problem for a lot of us.....but why?? What is in it that is making so many women feel so terrible?
I have been asking for a hysterectomy since my 20s due to the excruciating period pain, but then medical professionals tell me that that won't solve anything, i'd have to have my ovaries removed too and then i will 'drop off a cliff' into menopause. I honestly don't know which was to turn for the best......

[JinnyCat]

Hi Lavender Girl

Thanks for taking the time to message. It is clear Utrogestan is a massive problem for many of us, and the impact it has on our quality of life is horrendous 

I'm glad the mirena has improved things for you, but so sorry your sleep issue is not resolved. Hopefully you too can resolve your situation soon.

[Minnie Mouse]

Hi,
Your comment "what is in this Utrogestan to make women feel so terrible" has really stayed with me.
I'm back to cyclical regime as still Peri, and now on my Utrogestan-free days, and I really notice that I feel normal again.
After 5 years HRT I'm wondering whether it's really helping now or bringing new problems 

[Hurdity]

Thanks Bombsh3ll, Hurdity and Ms_London76 - i really appreciate you all taking the time to reply 🥰 x
Hurdity - i have since dropped down to x 2 pumps of Oestrogel, yet the Cyclogest prescription they have given me is for 400mg    - which seems a lot to me. The direction on the label says 'one 400mg pessary daily ( until we can get hold of 200mg supply)' which obviously doesn't make sense. I have queried this with the pharmacy via email (so i can get it in black and white!)but they only replied saying i have got to ring them on Monday to see when the 200mg stock will come in, they didn't respond and clarify dosage. So to be on the safe side i am just halving the pessary for now so i am only taking 200mg. No guidance at all!
Bombsh3ll and Hurdity - i have found by unpleasant experience that i absolutely cannot tolerate synthetic progesterone, my mood drops and i feel dreadful  :'(i tried Qlaira only as the same GP assured me that both the oestrogen and progesterone in it were body identical. It turned out after feeling suddenly very low, and looking up the make up of Qlaira, that it is a synthetic progesterone in it, which explained my mood 
Bombsh3ll - i have read about Zoely.....thank you.... i will see how i get on with this Cyclogest, but it sounds ideal as i would love to be bleed free and hormonally stable , i feel right now like i am never going to get there. It is like wading though treacle......
I am 3rd night in on Cyclogest now, and already i feel like that horrible feeling/irritation/anger/anxiety is starting to creep back but i need to persevere a little.  I am at a point where i am considering giving up on HRT altogether, but the 200mg of progesterone has been the only thing to stop my terribly painful periods up until now, and i'm worried they will come back and floor me if i stop it all.
Ladies.....i am coming back in the next life as a man, or a cat!!🤦🏻‍♀️🤣 

Meeow!

Yes 400 mg cyclogest is a lot and I can't believe I took it for several years - but I knew no better (before I discovered MM) - had researched it and it was bio-identical, utrogestan was not available so I just took it.

Many years later and still on Utrogestan and I still hate it. This cycle I haven't had a migraine ( though may get one on withdrawal) but the exhaustion - heavy sleep - can't wake up in the morning, snoring (I can't hear it though!!  ), head fog and lethargy - really not good.....

...and sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Zoely like Qlaira also contains a synthetic progestogen....

Have you thought of the Mirena coil like Lavender Girl? Although this is a synthetic progestogen MOST of it is absorbed locally in the womb where it is needed and very little is absorbed systemically - nothing like the amount what happens with tablets where high doses need to be given to achieve the same effect ....

I hear what you say re the problems of HRT on acxcount of the progesterone but it sounds like it's worth persevering as you are still young....


Hurdity x