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[bombsh3ll]

Hello again ladies.

As a Hashimoto Thyroiditis patient I am finding the discussion on thyroid problems very worrying.  Suddenly everything seems so complicated!

Can someone reassure me that having TSH and T4 blood levels within the normal range is okay? My GP assures me that it is and that my Levothyroxine medication is doing a good job.

I spend too much time fretting about my HRT, I certainly don't want anything else to worry about lol.

No offence intended ladies and take care.

K.

If you feel well on your current treatment and have no residual hypothyroid symptoms that is all the proof you need 

Most people treated with levothyroxine can convert this to T3 without any problems.

I do not have a diagnosed thyroid disorder, but undertook a trial of treatment based on symptoms and clinical evaluation (including the fact I had a resting heart rate of 42), with a private specialist who agreed it was reasonable to make sure I was not one of the very small group of people who have either almost, or actually, ended up with a pacemaker who turn out to have untreated or suboptimally treated hypothyroidism.

[joziel]

SundayGirl, I find your tone really combative, insulting and rude - not just towards me, but towards others (bombshll) as well, whose views I really respect and value. You're (of course) welcome to participate in this thread, as anyone is, but I won't be engaging with you.

Bombshll, I know what you mean about T3 and not wanting to end up on it long-term if you can help it. I also didn't want to, for the same reasons so i definitely don't find that a 'dubious' thing to say. You are very right that (whilst not impossible) it is extremely difficult to get it on the NHS - and it is really expensive (especially if you need a decent amount of it, I am hoping if I need 15mcg dose long-term, it will be affordable - when I was on 45mcg, I was burning through it). However, I also know that having low T3 (even low in range) has loads of health implications. (Like people with low in range T3 are more likely to have cardiovascular issues, dementia etc). So I definitely want to optimise things with my thyroid and if that means staying on meds then i will. There is also a quality of life thing, because I had a very slow metabolism before - and could hardly eat anything without gaining weight. Being able to actually eat a decent number of calories has been life changing and enabled me to go out to social meals and basically live life again...

I also have a slow resting pulse, it's about 54bpm. Maybe not as slow as yours, but after I had surgery for endometriosis all the alarms kept going off because my pulse was so slow and i had to tell them it was normal for me... At night my pulse is 38bpm in my sleep. On this 15mcg T3 it has raised to 42bpm, which is probably a good thing.

kathleen, the most important number to look at is your T3. Not your TSH or free T4. You do want to know those as well but it's like trying to understand what's going on without the full picture. For eg, at the moment my TSH is normal and my free T4 is in range (just) - but my T3 is way below range and I feel awful. If I didn't know my free T3, I wouldn't have the info I need. Unfortunately the NHS doesn't test T3 in most thyroid patients via GP so you have to do this test privately. But also how you feel is very important too. Just as with HRT it's a very individual thing and one person will feel fine with numbers that would make someone else feel really bad.

cs24, my understanding of what's happened (for me) isn't quite the same as what you say there. I am definitely a poor absorber and I am lucky to be with Newson and be able to get access to high doses. However, increasing the estrogen has helped me so much. I had turned a huge corner a couple of months ago, by increasing it. Then I weaned off thyroid meds and I think basically the symptoms of low estrogen and low thyroid are very similar. So now I am working on the belief that my estrogen is in a good place but my thyroid levels need to get back where they were. I have explored histamine intolerance about 2 years ago, with a low histamine diet - it didn't help. And I don't believe in 'estrogen dominance' - there is no such thing, it is progesterone deficiency(!).

Don't forget that our bodies have estrogen up to 20,000pmol during pregnancy and around 1000-1200pmol during ovulation. Instead of focussing on the dose someone gives you, look at the serum estradiol levels. Many women need to be between 450-650pmol to be symptom-free during peri due to the fluctuations. At 890pmol, I was too high - unless I really needed to be there. I have heard of some women who need to maintain around 1000pmol to be without symptoms. I first tried cutting out the gel completely which should have taken me to around 550pmol (this is all worked out by dozens of blood tests during my period over 2 years on various dosages) - but this was too low and I got my symptoms back. So I halved the gel to 3 pumps at night and that seems to have done the trick, I reckon I should be around 650pmol now but will test again in 6wks and see. I still need to sort out the thyroid... but I don't think I can rush that if I want my own thyroid to recover.

I think there is a lot which isn't understood about the ovary-brain connection yet. When the ovaries fail, this communication also gets messed up - and the brain can react to this causing a lot of neurological symptoms. It's incredible all this hasn't been researched yet.

[SundayGirl]

SundayGirl, I find your tone really combative, insulting and rude - not just towards me, but towards others (bombshll) as well, whose views I really respect and value. You're (of course) welcome to participate in this thread, as anyone is, but I won't be engaging with you.

I'm welcome to participate in this thread? Gee thanks but no thanks.

 So I'm combative, insulting and rude because I'm trying to share knowledge of a condition I have lived with for many years?? 

I find it insulting that you have a "Joziel knows best" attitude with something that you have a very confused knowledge of.

I knew deep down that I was basically banging my head against a brick wall. You were very argumentative with some very knowledgeable and experienced people on another forum earlier this year. People that do a hell of a lot to help others understand their condition. You didn't hear what you wanted to hear there either.

I. GIVE. UP.

You carry on with your mutual appreciation society with someone who will not contradict you or tell you you're wrong. You're both obviously desperate for affirmation.

[SundayGirl]

Hello again ladies.

As a Hashimoto Thyroiditis patient I am finding the discussion on thyroid problems very worrying.  Suddenly everything seems so complicated!

Can someone reassure me that having TSH and T4 blood levels within the normal range is okay? My GP assures me that it is and that my Levothyroxine medication is doing a good job.

I spend too much time fretting about my HRT, I certainly don't want anything else to worry about lol.

No offence intended ladies and take care.

K.

Yes thyroid disease can be complicated but on the flip side lots of people have well controlled hypothyroidism just taking Levo.

If you have no symptoms of hypothyroidism, then you are taking the correct replacement amount for you.

Please don't start worrying because of some of the things you have read on this thread. 

[Floral]

Joziel, iv flipped through this thread so apologies if iv missed stuff.  Have you had covid or covid jabs as it’s well known both can affect T3, and TSH stays within range, Google it.
 I have read covid attaches itself to the HPA and this then affects thyroid etc.  This is me and I am on T4 but it’s not converting, Dr Momi tried me on T3 and it was a disaster as my cortisol is on the high side anyway.  He was lost as to what to do.  I have apt in Jan with someone else to try Armour and I’m scared tbh.  My last T3 was 3.9 but before covid kicked off it was near 6!!  I have long covid again since getting it in July.  True nightmare.

A lot of women’s thyroids are out, even those on same meds for years.

[joziel]

Hi Floral.... Sorry to hear you are still struggling and now with long Covid too.

Have you tried the supplement called Seriphos? Dr Momi actually recommended it to me. At first I thought I'd tried it, because I've tried other kinds of choline, Alpha GPC and phosphatydylcholine or however you spell it.... But Seriphos is different (according to ChatGPT anyway!!). I just started it and I'm hoping it will help with the high cortisol issues. Will report back. I also take zinc and ashwaganda late afternoon/early evening, since this is when my cortisol tended to be too high - on into the night. Have you done a 4 point saliva cortisol test and tried to time your T3 doses away from high cortisol times, whilst taking cortisol lowering supplements at those times? If I take too much T3 at times of day when my cortisol is high, I get hyper symptoms.

I'm about to try taking some of my P vaginally as well, to see if absorption of that is improved and perhaps I get cortisol lowering systemic effects more. (I'll take 200mg orally and 100mg vaginally I think, to start - rather than 300mg orally.)

I haven't had Covid, amazingly - no. I must be one of the few people in the world not to get it, perhaps they should study me    I did have the first 2 shots back when they came out a few years ago, AstraZeneca. I haven't had any boosters since. I got spooked by the experiences of my sister in law after a routine Covid booster - she ended up with myocarditis. But those AZ vaccines were 3 years ago now. So I can't really attribute it to those.

Do you have high rT3 with your T3 that low? Is the T4 converting to rt3 instead? I have major rT3 issues. I can't believe that even with my T3 way below range and my T4 low, my rT3 was already mid-range. I mean... WTF...

And have you tried micro-doses of the T3? They usually say 5mcg is the lowest dose - do you get responses just from that? You could split even smaller? I just think our bodies are not used to having these sudden injections of T3 sometimes and for some people more frequent doses of lower amounts seem to work better.

I am feeling MUCH better after just 5 days back on 50mcg T4. I am sleeping deeper and longer, and able to fall back asleep when I wake at 5.30am (what is it with 5.30am??). My feet are warmer. I'm pooping every day again (instead of 2-3 days). I can think better. I have way more energy. I weighed myself today and I've lost 3lbs with no change to my diet, just from starting T3 about 2 weeks ago and T4 5 days ago. I'm not even trying to lose weight and eating a normal amount, so will need to increase calories. I just hope all this continues. My hair is still falling out but I think that will take a few months to stop.

I do think there is some tinkering to do with the estrogen because the remaining sleep issues are due to that. I'm going to test again in the new year as I'm suspicious of this 893pmol result and whether that was just an anomaly due to fluctuations....

[Floral]

Dear Joziel thank you for all your kind suggestions.  I’m broken atm, covid has wrecked me, I’m so exhausted and low.  Yes I do take Seriphos at night and I take high dose Ashwagandha.  Dr Momi suggested all this and I had been improving though the T3 even at 2.5mcg had unbearable consequences.  He didn’t know what else to do due to covid I guess.  I changed to Dr Conway and she was going to start me on Armour but I said I’d wait til January to see if I’d recover more first.  She said to start reducing T4 but I couldn’t deal with that because of my present health.  Do u think I could change over to Armour without reducing T4 first when jan comes?
You have had a time of it yourself with all this hormonal stuff, I’m sorry I can’t helpxxx. 

[joziel]

Hmm, I don't know much about Armour as it's not something I've taken. My understanding is that taking T4 and T3 separately allows you to adjust each better (like taking separate E and P) but then some people just don't react well to levo and lio and do respond to Armour, so maybe it's worth a try.

With reducing T4, my experience has been that it takes at least a week after stopping it before I notice any changes - because it has such a long half life. And when I've restarted it, it takes about a week to build up to 50% of its final level in the blood. It will be at 75% after 2 weeks. But I begin to feel better about 5 days after starting it.

Which is all to say, you should be able to stop taking T4 for 5-7 days without noticing anything whatsoever, but it will also allow you to fade in the Armour. Hope that helps...

[Floral]

Thanks Joziel.  Trial and error that’s for sure!