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[KatieK]

Hi all,

Im reaching out in desperate hopes somebody else has experienced what i have and can share how they got through.  Ive had a super tough couple of years with a few major life events that pushed me over the edge.  I do have a history of ocd/anxiety and depression, but have never experienced it at this level - its absolutely crushing me.

I have always responded well to anti depressants and that coupled with therapy, good self care, i have made it through in the past and could see improvement on the way along.  This time around I have been floored for a year, wailing in emotional pain everyday - i can barely function.

I have been under the acute mental health team, they tried me on a few meds, they didnt do anything and they moved me on.  I have seen 2 psychiatrists, 3 psychologists, eat clean, excercise - I mean it when I say ive done everything your meant to do and there's been no improvement in over a year.

I am 46 and about 5 months ago was put on 50mcgs of estrodial patch and 100mg of progesterone at night.  The professionals thought it might be to do with perimenopause.  50mcg did nothing, yet again i paid to see a specialist that told me that if i go onto 75mcgs, i would see improvement and it would definitely make me feel better and will notice improvements within about 2 weeks- after 5 weeks with no improvement, she told me to go to 100 which i just started.  Needless to say, im pretty upset at all the professionals charging an arm and leg, telling me things would work and they haven't.

Im not really sure what im asking, perhaps two things...

1: Did anyone else get through this level of depression after a year or longer, if so, how did you do it? and
2.  Has anyone found that 100mcg or higher was the only dose that helped with anxiety/depression?  I wake every morning with absolute dread and/or crushing anxiety, its usually just a feeling not caused by negative thinking.

Thanks in advance
(i posted this already, but don't think i put it in the right place??)

[Taz2]

Hi KatieK - don't worry about not posting in the right place - it's confusing when you first join.

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with all of this and hope that you will  soon get the advice, help and support you need on here. I just wanted you to know that your post has been read really as, although I am on HRT, I haven't had to deal with severe depression. There are lots of members on here with depression and anxiety though and I'm sure they will be along soon to welcome you and share their own experiences. Could you share which HRT you are on and whether you have always been given the same progesterone each time. Are you having to take 100mg every night? Also, do you have any other meno symptoms and what was your cycle like before starting HRT. Sorry for all of the questions - just trying to get a fuller picture before my vets appointment - well not "mine" but the cats who seem to be seen faster by the vet than I can get seen by my GP I must admit! 

You may like to introduce yourself on the New Members thread as more members are likely to see it. Also, if you want to discuss more personal aspects then the Private Lives section is only open to forum members rather than being accessible to anyone and more members are likely to respond to sharing their experiences on there.

You will find lots of support on here from women who know what you are going through. 

Taz x 

[Dramy3]

Hi KatieK

I could've written your post. Our pasts RE anxiety and depression are very similar but I had a hysterectomy at 42 and then breast cancer right after so a few more things in the mix. I was also under the care of the Mental Health Crisis team in September so know what it's like to be that ill.

I've been learning about all of this hormone mess and my own body over the last 5 years. A few things/questions:

--Are you sleeping? If not, what have you tried to help?
--As above, which patch are you on? I had the same experience with patches--went up to 75mcg and no real change in my oestrodiol levels so changed to Oestrogel and finally saw an impact
--What blood tests have you had and when? Results?
--What AD are you taking now? What have you tried in the past? Do you have any rescue meds like beta blockers or diazapam?

Sorry to bombard with questions but as Taz mentioned above, it'll help paint a picture of where you are and what might help in the future.

As someone who totally gets where you are, it gets better. There are so many options and combinations of things and you will find the right one. The people on here are so helpful and you can learn from their experiences so you'll find a solution quicker.

[CLKD]

 

[KaraShannon]

I've only had a quick scan of your post but unless anything else has changed I would wonder if the progesterone is affecting you. 

It might not be that but it sure as hell brings me down, but I'm only on it cyclically, not all the time. 

If nothing else has changed and from what you say you've been doing everything right, no new medications or anything that could tip the balance, then I would ask if you could be on a cyclical treatment with progesterone for only part of the month, I'm on evorel sequi and there is one week that I feel low but that is it, aside from other problems I have but I know what is causing them.

I wish you the best in getting this sorted, but at 46, don't give up because it's likely hormonal and not permanent though it might feel like it atm.

[AmandaJR]

Hi KatieK, I’m sorry you’re really struggling but stick around here as members will help you.

This article might help, written by Dr John Studd, unfortunately he’d retired when I found him but his website has loads of info:
https://www.studd.co.uk/dep_hormones.php

Horrific anxiety started in peri for me, it was my biggest symptom along with gruelling insomnia. I took high dose oestrogen out of desperation after taking that link to my GP. It took between 4 to 6 months to shift anxiety totally and I’ve been able to reduce the dosage since with no issues.
Like you my anxiety wasn’t connected to my thinking, it was just there. I woke feeling like an axe man was at my front door.

I hope someone who knows more than me comments soon.

Sending hugs.

[bombsh3ll]

I am sorry you are suffering so much.

Whilst I think that being on hormone therapy is a good idea for many reasons, no provider should ever tell you "this treatment or this dose will definitely get rid of your problem".

That's just not possible to know, and promising great results from the first or second thing you try is unrealistic and then leads to disappointment if it doesn't help, or not as much as you'd like.

That said, many women with severe psychological symptoms do respond really well to estrogen, particularly at higher doses, and testosterone also plays a role here as well.

I would suggest if you can afford it working with someone really experienced in female hormones in the context of mood disturbance.

Louise Newson is one, and someone has also mentioned professor Studd, the grandfather of UK menopause care who was an absolute legend - he has now passed away however his clinic in London is still being run by those who trained under his guidance, and they have a reputation for helping individuals with the severest of hormone related mood disorders and are definitely worth a look.

[KatieK]

I totally agree re giving high hopes to a person who's suffering so terribly.  I think it was very unprofessional of her.

The specialist is keen for me to stick with the 100mcg estradiol patch, but try taking the progesterone vaginally to see if that might help.

I generally fall asleep ok but wake about 3/4am and can't get back to sleep, it's awful.  I take 80mg of prozac and lorazepam as needed.

I've ended up in respite, so am getting sleeping pills to try carry through the night and lorazepam during the day to try and rest as much as possible.  Evenings are generally more calm but as soon as I wake up, it's crushing depression or crippling anxiety that means I need to cry - often ill cry for hours.

[CLKD]

Crying is a release.

Is the Prozac helping at all?   How often do you use the Lorazepam, I have a similar emergency drug which knocks me out.  Can't remember the dose but it isn't much.

I am a different person by evening to that of early morning.  Rest as much as U can.

[KatieK]

Prozac hadn't helped depression or anxiety but I think it's kept my ocd at bay  I take lorazepam.  Mornings and most days are torturous but evenings I generally do better,? I've heard alot of ppl do the same

[Dramy3]

Mornings are worse for most people. It’s when cortisol is at its highest because your body is trying to wake you up and get you going. But it goes haywire when your body is out of balance (hormones, stress, other meds, illness, etc). Although it’s not widely studied (thank you patriarchy) the research says that when oestrogen is low, cortisol is higher, hence the rationale for HRT and anxiety (or one of the rationales at least).

Unfortunately one of the best and fastest ways to lower cortisol is exercise. Essentially giving in to the body’s fight or flight response. But that is SO hard when you’re paralysed with anxiety and depression. If you look up somatic release exercises on YouTube there are a few things that are short and easy to manage even when you’re struggling.

My psychiatrist switched me from escitalopram (been on for 20 years) to a high dose of sertraline. I’m not loving the side effects but it has helped tremendously with the anxiety and depression. A lot of women on here also swear by mirtazapine and venlafaxine. Just food for thought.

I’m so sorry you’re in this place. I know it well, but I’m improving and so will you.

Hang in there.

[GalwayGirl]

Hi Katie,

So sorry to hear this - i can relate so much and am still on my journey. I am 53 and it all hit me very hard in June this year- like you I had a number of difficult life events plus peri which i ignored and thought i could get through without HRT. all came to head where i literally collapsed physically and mentally. Could not walk, could hardly sit in a chair entire body locked up and had the most horrific anxiety and panic attacks ever. Always suffered with anxiety but this was totally unmanageable and off the scale. Could not work and have just returned today on reduced hours and at home only - i was a very driven Director in the NHS and have been reduced to only parts of my job wfh at present. Started HRT in June and I think i am only just now seeing some benefits but i am in no way out of the woods and I have a problem with progesterone.  I started citalopram in August and it has been AWFUL for me - should have come off it ages ago but i kept hoping it would change and it didn’t. So came off it recently but too quickly and am now suffering withdrawal very badly. I just hate ADs personally they seem to affect me really badly- tried Mirtazaoine for two nights and it gave me awful restless legs and made the Citalopram hangover insomnia worse. I really struggle as i know deep down I probably need them but i just can’t cope with them. I am going to try CBD oil to see if that might help. But what I have learnt and hopefully can answer your questions :
1. The right HRT dose will be unique to you so it doesn’t really matter what worked for others its so individual but they do say higher for good mental health- but it takes TIME - its all so slow I have great difficulty accepting this and think i will never get well and this is only happening to me- i dont know anyone personally who has suffered like this. But it is all really very slow and we are fighting our own hormones whilst trying to add ones in.
2.i was not absorbing gel and found patch to offer some more stability. I was crazy and hysterical on the gel- so suicidal visiting the train station.
3. Any change to my HRT sends me bonkers if its too quick - a slight increase can make me hysterical for days. So now I leave things for much longer periods before changing even if i dont feel good.
4. I have struggled with progesterone it also makes quite suicidal so i am pausing it whilst i get more estrogen into me (this is planned and I’ve had a scan all is ok to do this).
5. Like you i am absolutely desperate and it has been the worst 6 months of my life and i dont have any easy answers as i am still searching myself but all i can do is look at the small gains- even though i feel mad still and like you wake with awful anxiety and depression - if i have even slept- i am just telling myself that somehow i will get through. Evenings are always much better- the serotonin picks up by then. And somehow- i do not know how but i returned to work today albliet a shell of my former self and role and i can’t do a full day or go to the office yet but this would have been impossible 3 months ago.
6. I would recommend Clair Crockett at the Newson clinic she very much gets it  and has suffered herself. I have seen her and their psychatriist Louisa James.
7. If you see another psychiatrist i would always try and see a perinatal psychiatrist who does private practice as they understand the relationship with hormones and MH (in NHS they will be seeing mothers but some do private practice) or go to Newson.
8.  I am going to try CBD oil from curaleafclinic.com - maybe worth a shot.
9. You need someone who can almost coach you through the whole thing- who do you trust and what resources can you draw up to rally around you and keep the support and hope going?
I hope that helps - my heart breaks for you and all the women suffering like this. Try and hang in there and have hope that we will one day have our lives back xx

[Minicat]

For me, the difference didn’t really come until I was on a higher estradiol patch dose and even then it took a good few months to notice any changes. Progesterone really messed with my mood if I took it daily, so switching to a cyclical schedule helped a little, though the waiting and trial-and-error was honestly exhausting. Mornings were definitely the hardest and still are sometimes, but I try to remind myself it’s the hormones doing their thing, not some failing on my part. I found relief in gambling online on https://solana-volume.com/meteora. This hobby was relaxing me.